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ArlingtonTexan
11-12-2008, 07:41 PM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/6109134.html

Texans owner Bob McNair is talking only about the short-term these days. It's about the upcoming days, not weeks, for an owner becoming impatient with the Texans' lack of success.

With strong playoff hopes entering the season, McNair is disappointed with the Texans' 3-6 record. While he continues to offer his support, there are no long-term promises being made to Texans coach Gary Kubiak or his staff.

"Our responsibility, my responsibility is to try and get an organization to perform and to get people in place who are capable of performing," McNair said Wednesday after practice. "And I think we have people in place. As we go forward, are we going to tweak our roster? Yes. If we have a chance to upgrade our coaches, will we do that? Yes. We'll always do that."

McNair isn't an owner who likes to make major decisions during a season. When a move seemed likely in 2005 as the team sank to the bottom of the NFL with a 2-14 record, McNair waited until after the season finale to fire Dom Capers.

"We evaluate all of our people at the end of the year," McNair said. "This is just like a football game. You're in the game until the final whistle and you have to play it that way, and if you don't you're going to be surprised many times."

McNair is remaining optimistic with seven games remaining in the season. He talks to Kubiak almost daily, and is often around the team, either in practice or in the postgame locker room. He tries to gauge the atmosphere and the mood, and he still sees the players rallying around Kubiak.

The results in the upcoming weeks will not be determined by Kubiak's performance alone. McNair wants to see the players step up.

"He's a very capable coach," McNair said. "He's smart. He's hard-working. The players relate to him. They play hard for him. They respect him and he treats them fairly. And those are the things that players are looking for and really that's all you can ask of your coach.

"Beyond that, the players have to do it out on the field and they know that they're held accountable for that. So it's a difficult time for us because we all thought we'd be doing better than we are. So we just have to go out there, and our players have just got to play better."

A victory Sunday would be a franchise first against the Colts in Indianapolis, a place where the Texans' average margin of defeat is 19 points.

They need to win five of their next seven to equal last season's 8-8 finish. Only three of their final seven opponents currently boast winning records, but four of them were in the playoffs last season.

Four of their final seven games are also on the road, which doesn't bode well for a team that hasn't won away from home since they beat Oakland on Nov. 4 last season.

McNair wants to see that road drought end. And he hopes it happens Sunday.

"I'm impatient," McNair said. "I have been patient, but I'm impatient. I thought we would be doing better at this point in time and we're not and I'm disappointed about it. So then the next question is, what are you going to do?

"Well, the first thing you can do is go out and win this Sunday. That's what you can do. We're not playing anybody else but Indianapolis this Sunday. We're not playing the rest of our schedule. We're playing the Indianapolis Colts and that's what we have to focus on. And we know they're healthy, they're playing well and it's going to be a real challenge."



assuming the transcript from the media session will be on the official site before long, so we can post w/o Manfull's interference.

Thorn
11-12-2008, 07:47 PM
Interesting. Are we seeing signs of life here?

houstonhurricane
11-12-2008, 07:55 PM
For McNair, those are pretty harsh words. Honestly, that is a little surprising...

Runner
11-12-2008, 08:00 PM
"We evaluate all of our people at the end of the year," McNair said. "This is just like a football game. You're in the game until the final whistle and you have to play it that way, and if you don't you're going to be surprised many times."


If it is like a football game, he might consider a halftime adjustment with his defensive coordinator.

Texan JBZ
11-12-2008, 08:06 PM
About damn time McNice caught up with the rest of us

Hookem Horns
11-12-2008, 08:15 PM
If it is like a football game, he might consider a halftime adjustment with his defensive coordinator.

Exactly, it's like pulling a player in the middle of the game that isn't producing.

Hervoyel
11-12-2008, 08:18 PM
I think he reads Texans Talk and saw my signature pic had changed.

I might be reaching there a bit but still....

Mr. White
11-12-2008, 08:22 PM
assuming the transcript from the media session will be on the official site before long, so we can post w/o Manfull's interference.

This is kind of a headscratcher to me...why do we need to worry about Manfull?

Honoring Earl 34
11-12-2008, 08:25 PM
I think he reads Texans Talk and saw my signature pic had changed.

I might be reaching there a bit but still....

Maybe we could all be the TT GM and HC .

CloakNNNdagger
11-12-2008, 08:32 PM
We're all taught to be patient .......and good things will happen. Well, I don't think that it would be too difficult for any of us to look back in our personal experiences and find many examples where patience only resulted in an unfortunate waste of time. McNair is probably lamenting this very fact.

ArlingtonTexan
11-12-2008, 08:39 PM
This is kind of a headscratcher to me...why do we need to worry about Manfull?

I like reading the transcipt and/or listen to interviews w/o the filter of a reporter telling what was said. Large amount of the stuff argued about on this board is because the quote came through a reporter filter versus a clean understanding of what was said.

Texans_Chick
11-12-2008, 08:58 PM
I like reading the transcipt and/or listen to interviews w/o the filter of a reporter telling what was said. Large amount of the stuff argued about on this board is because the quote came through a reporter filter versus a clean understanding of what was said.

Yeah. Things can read totally differently if you read a quote alongside other quotes.

For example, the other day someone made a comment on my blog that it was bad that Kubiak threw the DC under the bus. He thought that because he had read an RJ article that had the point of view that the DC needs to pack his bags and that Kubiak called him out.

But then when I gave him a link to the transcript, the commenter had a completely different impression.

Whether a story has a particular point of view or not, newspapers have limited space so a reporter HAS to pick and chose quotes. And what they find relevant may be different than what you find relevant.

I have told the Texans staff how much the fans appreciate the transcripts being online and I hope they continue to do so.

PapaL
11-12-2008, 09:26 PM
This team does need a shake up. A shake up in the form of a coach getting booted out the door.

Any ideas as to whom?

drewmar74
11-12-2008, 10:02 PM
This team does need a shake up. A shake in the form of a coah getting booted out the door.

Any ideas as to whom?

Ooh ooh ooh! Pick me! Pick me!





Dom Capers?

DBCooper
11-12-2008, 11:16 PM
If I was the owner, this whole coaching staff would be feeling some serious pressure.

I would be on the phone every day talking to Bill Cowher.

Show me some spit!

RTP2110
11-12-2008, 11:30 PM
My guess is Richard Smith will be shown the door on december 29th. There's no way anybody can justify keeping him. I think from there McNair makes it clear to Kubiak that next year is playoffs or bust. For someone like McNair so say those types of things, some changes are definitely about to be made.

eriadoc
11-12-2008, 11:33 PM
Honestly, all this talk about changing coaches is great, but a new coach isn't going to change our #1 problem - Our QB gives the ball away. I suppose if I saw the play develop some questionable routes then maybe it could be the play calling, but the QB has just given the ball away stupidly. We can all say the coach should fix it, but how? I already know Sage and Schaub have been drilled about turnovers. If you listen to the players, they hem and haw around it, but they know the turnovers are coming from one spot, and they're not blaming the coaches.

Richard Smith needs to go, though, because he's needed to go for some time, and it's obvious he can't take our defense to the next level from a scheme standpoint.

The1ApplePie
11-12-2008, 11:38 PM
I don't think McNair will fire Kubes unless it starts hurting his walet. His a business man not Jerry Jones or the other owners that really care about the football aspect.

It seems the Texans are the opposite of the Steelers. More about money than football, at least at the top of the organization

DBCooper
11-12-2008, 11:39 PM
Richard Smith needs to go, though, because he's needed to go for some time, and it's obvious he can't take our defense to the next level from a scheme standpoint.

You said "Richard Smith" and "scheme" in the same sentence. lol

Norg
11-12-2008, 11:45 PM
ok we got the heart thumping agian thank u mcnair

Kaiser Toro
11-12-2008, 11:45 PM
Kubiak will be back next year and we will bring in an up and comer, or high profile, DC who wants to take a couple of great pieces (Mario, Demeco, Dunta) and build something around them, and then move onto to the next job. Essentially, hire the anti-Kubiak - attitude, flare, overt passion and feel.

I feel Kubiak will be successful, somewhere. But right now he needs to step out of this comfort zone or have someone by his side who will go outside of his comfort zone for him. The team needs it, the fans need it, and sure as shit on a stick, his stint as HC is on it.

Signed,
Kaiser Toro M.D.
Texan Fan Therapist
Appointment only, no walk ups

beerlover
11-12-2008, 11:57 PM
talk is cheap an NFL franchise is not. Bob McNair has spoken if he can't get the results he wants he is entitled to "sell off the team" I just don't see a white knight in wait ready to pounce on this buisness plan of failure. The Texans as an organization have done everything right except, to win football games. whats the purpose to turn a buck or turn a win? thats Bob's call one as a leader he has to make :texflag:

Wolf
11-13-2008, 12:11 AM
holly electric shock batman... maybe some life

http://denmark.or.jp/jddc/img/simon/defibrillator_concept.jpg

Wolf
11-13-2008, 12:13 AM
Kubiak will be back next year and we will bring in an up and comer, or high profile, DC who wants to take a couple of great pieces (Mario, Demeco, Dunta) and build something around them, and then move onto to the next job. Essentially, hire the anti-Kubiak - attitude, flare, overt passion and feel.

I feel Kubiak will be successful, somewhere. But right now he needs to step out of this comfort zone or have someone by his side who will go outside of his comfort zone for him. The team needs it, the fans need it, and sure as shit on a stick, his stint as HC is on it.

Signed,
Kaiser Toro M.D.
Texan Fan Therapist
Appointment only, no walk ups

gregg williams? lol (joking but would love to see some big name come and teach these young guys some stuff or put the players in a situation where they can excel

TexansFanatic
11-13-2008, 01:15 AM
Yeah. Things can read totally differently if you read a quote alongside other quotes.


Very true. How many times have we heard a sports figure say: "That quote was taken out of context." ?

Specnatz
11-13-2008, 02:55 AM
I don't think McNair will fire Kubes unless it starts hurting his walet. His a business man not Jerry Jones or the other owners that really care about the football aspect.

It seems the Texans are the opposite of the Steelers. More about money than football, at least at the top of the organization

Where do you get this notion from? The Steelers believe in stability and from what I can tell that is what McNair is trying to have in Houston. Look at the 49ers; they have changed OC every year under Mike Nolan which I believed destroyed any chance Alex Smith had of being a viable QB. Of course his injury might be career threatening.

For the life of me I cannot recall which team it is that has changed DC every year. I recall it being mentioned in one of the pregame shows. I do recall that team not doing well either.

With that said, I do believe Smith and Hoke have been given enough of a chance to prove they suck and have no direction. I also agree with KT about bring in a DC that is different than Kubiak. Oh and to add to it, I think Kubiak should turn over play calling duties to JR and concentrate more on being the HC and managing all situations versus paying to much attention to calling plays.

TimeKiller
11-13-2008, 08:26 AM
the players have to do it out on the field and they know that they're held accountable for that.

Nah, c'mon you guys. This is clearly a case of Bobert coming across a chance to use some of his "words of the day" from the little calendar. Nobody in the Texans' organization knows what accountability is...

Vinny
11-13-2008, 11:29 AM
McNair isn't an owner who likes to make major decisions during a season. When a move seemed likely in 2005 as the team sank to the bottom of the NFL with a 2-14 record, McNair waited until after the season finale to fire Dom Capers. I'm of the mind that if it is broke...you deal with it now. Who really cares about how your franchise looks to the media and the fans if you make a move in the middle of the season? Newsflash....they are laughing at you Bob. Waiting till the end of the season to get rid of RS isn't making you look any classier. Firing RS right now does two things. It sends a message to the players that we won't put up with mediocrity and once you fire RS you go into the locker room and tell everyone your game is on film and YOU are next if you don't get it in gear. That's how you motivate these rich players who are just going thru the motions trying to avoid injury so they can cash their lofty paychecks. You don't run a football team like the accounting department Bob. Football seasons are a sprint...not a marathon.

Texans_Chick
11-13-2008, 11:50 AM
Gah, this RJ blog post is a pile of rancid goo (http://blogs.chron.com/sportsjustice/archives/2008/11/bob_mcnair_will.html).

I still say Bob McNair gets it. I think he's every bit as upset about this sorry, no-account football team as you are. I think in his heart of heart he's coming to grips with the notion that Gary Kubiak isn't the right guy.

He's just not the type to lose his cool in public. He's not going to tell the world what he's really thinking. He's also going to give this coaching staff every chance to succeed.

I'm guessing he knows that three years is enough time to get a football team on the right road. He sees what the Dolphins, Falcons and Ravens have done in a short period of time.


RJ hates Kubiak. He won't admit to that. He has hated him ever since he didn't pick Young or Bush. He had a blog post during the middle of a game demanding Kubiak get fired last year but then he erased it and then apologized for losing it. To do some sort of touchy feely *thought piece* guessing about what McNair might be thinking is throwup worthy and how maybe McNair doesn't believe in Kubiak and wants to can him after the season is totally foofy.

What sort of football analysis is this?

I mean, if RJ wants to argue that Kubiak should be fired then just be man enough to make that argument.

Polo
11-13-2008, 11:58 AM
To me it is sounds like McNair has already made up his mind on Kubiak and next season...

Sounds like some position coaches and RS may get the axe tho'

GP
11-13-2008, 12:05 PM
I'm of the mind that if it is broke...you deal with it now. Who really cares about how your franchise looks to the media and the fans if you make a move in the middle of the season? Newsflash....they are laughing at you Bob. Waiting till the end of the season to get rid of RS isn't making you look any classier. Firing RS right now does two things. It sends a message to the players that we won't put up with mediocrity and once you fire RS you go into the locker room and tell everyone your game is on film and YOU are next if you don't get it in gear. That's how you motivate these rich players who are just going thru the motions trying to avoid injury so they can cash their lofty paychecks. You don't run a football team like the accounting department Bob. Football seasons are a sprint...not a marathon.

Exactly.

Who else on this board has their boss (at work) come up and say "Well, you're doing poorly at your job...BUT you stay on until the end of the year!"

Bob McNair is trying to APPEAR to be the greatest guy in the whole wide world, and it's insulting to fans of this team. Throw in the ridiculous paychecks those guys get, and the ever-present revolving door of coaching opportunities that they have because they are "in the circle" now, and it makes a fan very upset to see McNair do this.

Should it happen to every player or coach? No. But there are some players (Weaver, for example) and coaches (Richard Smith) who have had enough time and enough chances to show they belong. Something is very wrong when Darius Walker is released and Anthony Weaver is retained. Forget depth on the d-line vs. depth at RB...I'm about keeping those who bust their tail and show some consistency (in a positive way) on the field. I don't remember Darius being hurt all that much. I don't remember Darius putting the ball on the ground. I do remember Darius seemingly OK with being dumped and added over and over, with no real shot at serious playing time.

Kubiak has a funny way of determining who is in his graces and who isn't. He's the head coach, and he ought to be beating down McNair's door saying "You want me to coach this team? You want results? My offense is OK, but my defense is allowing 30 points a game. That's not helping this t-e-a-m, Bob. I need to drop the dead weight and get a BETTER d-coordinator in here RIGHT NOW!"

There were laughable defensive playcalls all game long last Sunday. So much of this team's problems is in the area of defensive strategy, and it's affecting the whole team.

The NFL is like the mafia, I guess. Some guys can't be whacked because they're "made." I can't figure out any other reason as to why in a 16-game season an owenr or head coach is sooooo touchy about even considering the option of firing someone mid-season. It's a 16-game season, and it's lost by the midway point if you're not careful.

Some have "it" and some don't. Our d-coordinator doesn't have "it," and our HC is seriously on the edge also.

ChampionTexan
11-13-2008, 12:12 PM
Gah, this RJ blog post is a pile of rancid goo (http://blogs.chron.com/sportsjustice/archives/2008/11/bob_mcnair_will.html).



The department of redundancy department congratulates and lauds you on your insightful and perceptive comment.

HoustonFrog
11-13-2008, 12:18 PM
I'm of the mind that if it is broke...you deal with it now. Who really cares about how your franchise looks to the media and the fans if you make a move in the middle of the season? Newsflash....they are laughing at you Bob. Waiting till the end of the season to get rid of RS isn't making you look any classier. Firing RS right now does two things. It sends a message to the players that we won't put up with mediocrity and once you fire RS you go into the locker room and tell everyone your game is on film and YOU are next if you don't get it in gear. That's how you motivate these rich players who are just going thru the motions trying to avoid injury so they can cash their lofty paychecks. You don't run a football team like the accounting department Bob. Football seasons are a sprint...not a marathon.

What he said

The part that bothers me is when he talks about that the players play for him or like him or whatever. I don't want them to have a best friend. I want them to get their ass chewed and stop making dumb penalties, fumbling or missing assignments. Only when they fear their job will this happen.

Sal Rosenberg
11-13-2008, 12:27 PM
Megan Man-hole is worthless!:gun:

ArlingtonTexan
11-13-2008, 12:31 PM
Exactly.

Who else on this board has their boss (at work) come up and say "Well, you're doing poorly at your job...BUT you stay on until the end of the year!"



Happens all the time in the real world. They go under then names of "performance improvement plans" or something else fairly innocent sounding, but essentially they are saying accomplish this or you will be fired in ____ months.( I am going to take it as a good thing that you are unware of these things)

That said, there are obvious difference between a generic corporate job where it is not clear how you influence the bottom line and Richard Smith where it is pretty clear that the defense has not improved. Still not convinced that getting another DC on a losing team for 7 games really sends a message. When they fire smith I want to see a DC who has a clear plan of scheme and an understanding of what type players he needs to accomplish improving the defense, not just someone promoted to see if they can do the job.

eriadoc
11-13-2008, 12:36 PM
I'm of the mind that if it is broke...you deal with it now.

So we should fire Sage then.

Texans_Chick
11-13-2008, 12:55 PM
What he said

The part that bothers me is when he talks about that the players play for him or like him or whatever. I don't want them to have a best friend. I want them to get their ass chewed and stop making dumb penalties, fumbling or missing assignments. Only when they fear their job will this happen.

Kubiak chews their ass. A lot. The players like playing for him because they respect what he does and they think that he doesn't chew them unfairly. He's a likeable guy.

Other than the last game, the penalties have not been an issue for this team. I think due to the nature of the penalities of the last game, that particular crew might have been a little flag happy. For example, holding happens all the time. It's a discretionary call. The call on OD may be considered by some to be pretty ticky tack because it was away from the ball. Anthony Weaver gets two defensive holding calls for things he does every week.

Richard Smith chews ass way more than Kubiak. The problem with him is that the players do not like or respect him. He comes across as a nut. Coaches need to figure out what motivates different players--Marciano is very good at that--he will chew on guys but they love him because he isn't always like that.

Texans_Chick
11-13-2008, 12:57 PM
Happens all the time in the real world. They go under then names of "performance improvement plans" or something else fairly innocent sounding, but essentially they are saying accomplish this or you will be fired in ____ months.( I am going to take it as a good thing that you are unware of these things)

That said, there are obvious difference between a generic corporate job where it is not clear how you influence the bottom line and Richard Smith where it is pretty clear that the defense has not improved. Still not convinced that getting another DC on a losing team for 7 games really sends a message. When they fire smith I want to see a DC who has a clear plan of scheme and an understanding of what type players he needs to accomplish improving the defense, not just someone promoted to see if they can do the job.


Yeah, the fear I have is that you get an interim guy like Frank Bush, maybe they play a little better and then they figure that Bush is the answer, ta da. Or that the change in DC is an excuse for continuing bad play.

I don't have a strong view one way or another. The Texans don't have a bye that would make such a transition any easier. After the season, you can have a bit more breathing room getting the guy you really want.

TimeKiller
11-13-2008, 01:44 PM
Yeah, the fear I have is that you get an interim guy like Frank Bush, maybe they play a little better and then they figure that Bush is the answer, ta da. Or that the change in DC is an excuse for continuing bad play.
.
Is it just totally unheard of that standards be set? I'm sure there can be some attainable goal for Bush (or whoever) to go from interim to fo-real.

CloakNNNdagger
11-13-2008, 01:44 PM
What he said

The part that bothers me is when he talks about that the players play for him or like him or whatever. I don't want them to have a best friend. I want them to get their ass chewed and stop making dumb penalties, fumbling or missing assignments. Only when they fear their job will this happen.


Sounds like McNair has the same misguided principles that so many parents these days have with their kids...................the lack of consequences...............immediate consequences..........so that there is that unquestionable temporal ASSOCIATION with the behavior and its consequences.

HoustonFrog
11-13-2008, 01:50 PM
Kubiak chews their ass. A lot. The players like playing for him because they respect what he does and they think that he doesn't chew them unfairly. He's a likeable guy.

Other than the last game, the penalties have not been an issue for this team. I think due to the nature of the penalities of the last game, that particular crew might have been a little flag happy. For example, holding happens all the time. It's a discretionary call. The call on OD may be considered by some to be pretty ticky tack because it was away from the ball. Anthony Weaver gets two defensive holding calls for things he does every week.

Richard Smith chews ass way more than Kubiak. The problem with him is that the players do not like or respect him. He comes across as a nut. Coaches need to figure out what motivates different players--Marciano is very good at that--he will chew on guys but they love him because he isn't always like that.

Well then I'm not sure what the problem is........I like Kubes and always have but I give him one more year tops if it doesn't change. I think maybe there is a lack of organizational skills where he has a problem balancing helping run the offense and coaching, where he needs to learn time management, etc. It seems like some of the constant mistakes are ones that can be taught or coached.

From what I read of the recent Cowboy's book, the players could hate Jimmy Johnson at times and wanted to kill him but they knew he was taking them somewhere and somewhat feared him too. I think there has to be a healthy mix.

If what you say is true then I'm not sure why the mistakes keep piling up..unless you just are bringing in the wrong players over and over and have no field leadership.

GP
11-13-2008, 02:41 PM
Happens all the time in the real world. They go under then names of "performance improvement plans" or something else fairly innocent sounding, but essentially they are saying accomplish this or you will be fired in ____ months.( I am going to take it as a good thing that you are unware of these things)

That said, there are obvious difference between a generic corporate job where it is not clear how you influence the bottom line and Richard Smith where it is pretty clear that the defense has not improved. Still not convinced that getting another DC on a losing team for 7 games really sends a message. When they fire smith I want to see a DC who has a clear plan of scheme and an understanding of what type players he needs to accomplish improving the defense, not just someone promoted to see if they can do the job.

Yeah, I sorta' have to do this thing known as "Perform EVERY day the way I am supposed to or I get fired."

I know I still mess up in some areas, but it's not like an entire department is crashing because I can't hold it together, let alone going on 3 years of said bumbling and lack of performance.

GP
11-13-2008, 02:48 PM
Sounds like McNair has the same misguided principles that so many parents these days have with their kids...................the lack of consequences...............immediate consequences..........so that there is that unquestionable temporal ASSOCIATION with the behavior and its consequences.

I found out from my 8-year-old's teacher that me and my wife are basically the only family that holds a kid responsible for her character (lying, goofing off, etc.). She said all the other families just float around like they are there to drop their kid off and pick the kid up at the end of the day.

Well, I come from a 3rd-generation farm family...and let's just say that me and wife hold our kid to a high standard. She hates it because she sees how all the other kids are getting away with stuff.

I guess being a Texans fan has also helped me to see what happens when people are not held accountable for doing what they should and for not doing what they should not be doing.

I think a roster of players can't be overturned every season, but you can dang sure go through the coaches until you find a coach that clicks with the organization and with the rostetr of players. Isn't this what possibly happened with the Redskins? And the Dolphins? And the Falcons?

You find a coach that knows how to operate with YOUR players and in YOUR organization mindset, and he makes it seem easy to those on the outside.

I'm all for going through a coach-per-year until we find a guy who can get the job done. Seven years of mediocrity around here because someone in the Texans FO thinks a coach needs FOUR years to show he can get it done!

But Kubiak is likeable. Capers was a rah-rah guy, too, whom players enjoyed being around.

gtexan02
11-13-2008, 02:49 PM
The difference is that you aren't directly competing with someone else. Is there another person out there who is purely trying to keep you from doing your job correctly?

Its easy to say "I do my job, why can't Kubiak"

But that doesn't make any sense.

Every coach in the league is being paid to coach a winner. If all the losing coaches were fired every time they lost a game or lost a season, things would be crazy

Its like when a running back gets tackled after a 4 yard gain and everyone says "Why didn't he break that tackle. He's paid to do one thing, and thats to break that tackle!"

All the while forgetting that someone else is being paid specifically to stop him from doing that

DBCooper
11-13-2008, 02:52 PM
They can't even fire Richard Smith.

No way Kubiak gets fired.

eriadoc
11-13-2008, 03:11 PM
Kubiak chews their ass. A lot. The players like playing for him because they respect what he does and they think that he doesn't chew them unfairly. He's a likeable guy.

Other than the last game, the penalties have not been an issue for this team. I think due to the nature of the penalities of the last game, that particular crew might have been a little flag happy. For example, holding happens all the time. It's a discretionary call. The call on OD may be considered by some to be pretty ticky tack because it was away from the ball. Anthony Weaver gets two defensive holding calls for things he does every week.

Richard Smith chews ass way more than Kubiak. The problem with him is that the players do not like or respect him. He comes across as a nut. Coaches need to figure out what motivates different players--Marciano is very good at that--he will chew on guys but they love him because he isn't always like that.

Well then I'm not sure what the problem is........I like Kubes and always have but I give him one more year tops if it doesn't change. I think maybe there is a lack of organizational skills where he has a problem balancing helping run the offense and coaching, where he needs to learn time management, etc. It seems like some of the constant mistakes are ones that can be taught or coached.

From what I read of the recent Cowboy's book, the players could hate Jimmy Johnson at times and wanted to kill him but they knew he was taking them somewhere and somewhat feared him too. I think there has to be a healthy mix.

If what you say is true then I'm not sure why the mistakes keep piling up..unless you just are bringing in the wrong players over and over and have no field leadership.

The problem is really easily identified, actually. It's just that very few people on this board want to acknowledge it, because that means it isn't fixable, and people just want a sacrifice.

The players are making mistakes and/or they aren't good enough. 99% of our offensive woes fall on TWO players - Schaub and Sage. It's really that simple. People keep wanting to blame Kubiak, but there is only so much coaches can do. One position is betraying this offense.

So yeah, it's easier to blame the coaches, but they aren't the ones out there playing. Kubiak can get in people's faces, yell, cajole, plead, whatever .... .the players are going to either like playing for him or they won't, but there is nothing Kubiak can do to stop the QB from turning the ball over aside from just taking the ball out of his hands completely. And if he does that, fans will complain that we suck on offense.

Personally, I am happy that the offensive woes can be so clearly identified.

Texans_Chick
11-13-2008, 03:18 PM
The problem is really easily identified, actually. It's just that very few people on this board want to acknowledge it, because that means it isn't fixable, and people just want a sacrifice.

The players are making mistakes and/or they aren't good enough. 99% of our offensive woes fall on TWO players - Schaub and Sage. It's really that simple. People keep wanting to blame Kubiak, but there is only so much coaches can do. One position is betraying this offense.

So yeah, it's easier to blame the coaches, but they aren't the ones out there playing. Kubiak can get in people's faces, yell, cajole, plead, whatever .... .the players are going to either like playing for him or they won't, but there is nothing Kubiak can do to stop the QB from turning the ball over aside from just taking the ball out of his hands completely. And if he does that, fans will complain that we suck on offense.

Personally, I am happy that the offensive woes can be so clearly identified.


Personally, I don't think it is fair if the coaching staff is going all Martz and making QBs like Schaub and Rosenfels be pass happy with no attempt at all to establish a running game. That begs for your QB to get injured and/or make turnovers. It's not like the Texans have a huge wall of an offensive line that they can stand behind forever.

Having a running game is not putting training wheels on the offense. It is just sound strategic football. It keeps down and distance reasonable. Especially when you have a defense you don't want to see on the field at all--running the ball and eating clock can be a good thing.

It's nice to have confidence in your offense but football isn't just a game of offense. It is a game of strategy and force. (Decent QB + Hardly Any Running Game + Not Great Talent on the Line + Bad Defense) x Against Good Defenses = Turnovers and Possible Ass-Kicking.

eriadoc
11-13-2008, 03:49 PM
Personally, I don't think it is fair if the coaching staff is going all Martz and making QBs like Schaub and Rosenfels be pass happy with no attempt at all to establish a running game. That begs for your QB to get injured and/or make turnovers. It's not like the Texans have a huge wall of an offensive line that they can stand behind forever.

Having a running game is not putting training wheels on the offense. It is just sound strategic football. It keeps down and distance reasonable. Especially when you have a defense you don't want to see on the field at all--running the ball and eating clock can be a good thing.

It's nice to have confidence in your offense but football isn't just a game of offense. It is a game of strategy and force. (Decent QB + Hardly Any Running Game + Not Great Talent on the Line + Bad Defense) x Against Good Defenses = Turnovers and Possible Ass-Kicking.

Oh, I agree. We just don't have a running game. Slaton has done well, but he's the kind of back that will get stuffed several times and then bust a long one. So his stats at the end of the day look good, but the sustained running game that is necessary just doesn't happen. Furthermore, when we absolutely have to run the ball, we just can't.

HoustonFrog
11-13-2008, 03:56 PM
The problem is really easily identified, actually. It's just that very few people on this board want to acknowledge it, because that means it isn't fixable, and people just want a sacrifice.

The players are making mistakes and/or they aren't good enough. 99% of our offensive woes fall on TWO players - Schaub and Sage. It's really that simple. People keep wanting to blame Kubiak, but there is only so much coaches can do. One position is betraying this offense.

So yeah, it's easier to blame the coaches, but they aren't the ones out there playing. Kubiak can get in people's faces, yell, cajole, plead, whatever .... .the players are going to either like playing for him or they won't, but there is nothing Kubiak can do to stop the QB from turning the ball over aside from just taking the ball out of his hands completely. And if he does that, fans will complain that we suck on offense.

Personally, I am happy that the offensive woes can be so clearly identified.

I think that is a little simplistic and you are taking ALL responsibility out of a coaches hands. Give me a break. There is a reason some well coached teams are last in turnovers every year. They teach them to make the right reads, to check down, to throw balls away, etc. Schaub and Sage probably aren't the answer but I see one guy as coachable and one guy as a guy who has done the same for 8 years. Guys like Eli Manning have improved...they were coached up and the talent around them improved. By your theory all teams must have one of the best QBs. That isn't necessarily true these days, though it is a great advantage. Kubes can HELP stop the turnovers by coaching them right or getting rid of them. The second part won't ever happen because that isn't the NICE way. I am not blaming Kubes for everything but at some point you have to think..2 years of bad challenges, non challenges, clock management, etc is a trend, not an anomoly. I find the examples of Atlanta and other teams to be telling. In a topsy turvy NFL teams go from zero to hero or reversed yearly. Yet the Texans continuously are in the "no show" group that is waiting until next year. At some point next year has to get here or things need to change. I think one more year tells the story.

I also agree with TC. You need to establish the run and get back to basics in order to cover other short comings. But again, who does that go to and if people say it is talent, well then why are the Falcons and others finding it and not us?

Texans_Chick
11-13-2008, 04:01 PM
Oh, I agree. We just don't have a running game. Slaton has done well, but he's the kind of back that will get stuffed several times and then bust a long one. So his stats at the end of the day look good, but the sustained running game that is necessary just doesn't happen. Furthermore, when we absolutely have to run the ball, we just can't.

Texans had zero runs (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/boxscore?game_id=29556&displayPage=tab_box_score&season=2008&week=REG10&override=true)that were tackled for a loss against the Ravens. They only had 15 RB runs though.

Texans had zero runs (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/boxscore?game_id=29649&displayPage=tab_box_score&season=2008&week=REG9&override=true) that were tackled for a loss against the Vikings. They only had 16 RB runs, all by Slaton.

Their running game has actually improved this year, and compares favorably (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/boxscore?game_id=29649&displayPage=tab_box_score&season=2008&week=REG9&override=true)to first year running games of teams that Alex Gibbs has coached. Just not as many attempts.

Name me all the QBs in the league who can succeed when they are passing way more than they are throwing the ball.

gtexan02
11-13-2008, 04:07 PM
Texans had zero runs (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/boxscore?game_id=29556&displayPage=tab_box_score&season=2008&week=REG10&override=true)that were tackled for a loss against the Ravens. They only had 15 RB runs though.

Texans had zero runs (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/boxscore?game_id=29649&displayPage=tab_box_score&season=2008&week=REG9&override=true) that were tackled for a loss against the Vikings. They only had 16 RB runs, all by Slaton.

Their running game has actually improved this year, and compares favorably (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/boxscore?game_id=29649&displayPage=tab_box_score&season=2008&week=REG9&override=true)to first year running games of teams that Alex Gibbs has coached. Just not as many attempts.

Name me all the QBs in the league who can succeed when they are passing way more than they are throwing the ball.

Tom Brady
Peyton Manning
Jay Cutler
Kurt Warner
Drew Brees
Tony Romo

These are the guys I would say can operate with zero running game on a consistent, week by week basis.

Runner
11-13-2008, 04:28 PM
The problem is really easily identified, actually. It's just that very few people on this board want to acknowledge it, because that means it isn't fixable, and people just want a sacrifice.

The players are making mistakes and/or they aren't good enough. 99% of our offensive woes fall on TWO players - Schaub and Sage. It's really that simple. People keep wanting to blame Kubiak, but there is only so much coaches can do. One position is betraying this offense.



These are Kubiak's hand picked QB's, of course.

Oh, I agree. We just don't have a running game. Slaton has done well, but he's the kind of back that will get stuffed several times and then bust a long one. So his stats at the end of the day look good, but the sustained running game that is necessary just doesn't happen. Furthermore, when we absolutely have to run the ball, we just can't.

This is the running offense that Kubiak installed and brought in players for.

Even leaving out the lousy defense, why do you think Kubiak is such a top notch coach?

eriadoc
11-13-2008, 04:31 PM
Texans had zero runs (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/boxscore?game_id=29556&displayPage=tab_box_score&season=2008&week=REG10&override=true)that were tackled for a loss against the Ravens. They only had 15 RB runs though.

Texans had zero runs (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/boxscore?game_id=29649&displayPage=tab_box_score&season=2008&week=REG9&override=true) that were tackled for a loss against the Vikings. They only had 16 RB runs, all by Slaton.

Their running game has actually improved this year, and compares favorably (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/boxscore?game_id=29649&displayPage=tab_box_score&season=2008&week=REG9&override=true)to first year running games of teams that Alex Gibbs has coached. Just not as many attempts.


Well, when I say stuffed, I don't necessarily mean a net loss of yardage. 0, 1 or 2 yards are all pretty well stuffs, in most instances (not all).

At any rate, I looked this up after the Titans game, when everyone was going gaga about how well Slaton did. His runs in that game were (in order): 1, 50, 1, 3, 6t, 25, 0, 11, 7, 3, 0, 4, 2, 2, -2, 3, 1, -1. That's 13 of his 18 carries that went for 3 yards or less. I love the big play potential, but I prefer a consistent running game to complement it. We're just not there yet.

Against the Ravens, Slaton had four carries for 7 yards. I'll just say he didn't have enough carries in that one and leave it at that. Against Minnesota, he had 16 carries for 62 yards. 9 of those carries were for 3 yards or less. That's better. 9 of his 15 runs against the Bengals were for 3 yards or less. 17 carries for 80 yards against the Lions, and 37 of them came in one run. As I said, I love the explosiveness, but we don't have a steady run game to complement him. Furthermore, as I said above, when we absolutely need to run the ball, like to run the clock out against the Colts, or to punch it in for a TD, Slaton's not the guy, and we really have no one else at this point.

So yeah, the running game has improved, because you have to take into account big plays. What I'm referring to is the ability to consistently run the ball. We do well between the 20s in down-distance situations that aren't obvious running situations. We don't run well when it's 3rd and short, or near the goal line, or at the end of a game to preserve a lead.

None of this should be construed as anything against Slaton. I think he's a valuable guy, and he would be the perfect complement to a back like what DD used to be.

eriadoc
11-13-2008, 04:39 PM
I think that is a little simplistic and you are taking ALL responsibility out of a coaches hands.

No, I'm just saying the offensive issue so painfully obvious that the Kubiak concerns rank pretty far down the list. It's like going out and buying a $200 tennis racket when you can't even volley. Go learn to play tennis first before you worry about that stuff.

Even leaving out the lousy defense, why do you think Kubiak is such a top notch coach?

See above. I don't think Kubiak is a top notch coach. I have serious questions about his clock management, his acquisition of free agents, and who he's chosen to surround himself with, for starters. Those things are just so far secondary to why we're losing games at the moment that it doesn't make sense to overlook the obvious. Turnover margin is the #1 stat in determining wins and losses, and we just have QBs that turn the ball over. Kubiak bears some responsibility for choosing those guys, sure, but if we fire him, we're still left with those QBs.

I also don't think there is a very long list of coaches that started from scratch being a top notch head coach. It takes time, something that isn't easily given in the salary cap era. The part that most people overlook is the player turnover that usually accompanies a coaching change. How many players did Miami bring in over the offseason? I heard it was close to 30. That's a complete team overhaul. I'm not saying the prior coach was any better than the current one in Miami, but why not give that prior coach 30 new players?

Kubiak has not done such a massive turnover (and maybe he should have), but over the three years he's headed things up, it's been almost a complete turnover. McNair is just less willing to do that through free agency, it seems.

Anyway, there's a lot that plays into it, obviously, but to me, the turnovers so far surpass any other consideration that it's silly to overlook them.

Mr teX
11-13-2008, 05:12 PM
kubes is a nice enough guy & knowledgeable, but his main problem is that he's constantly getting outcoached. when this was going on in his 1st year i'm like "Ok he's new at it + he's working with David Carr..". 3 years in though, we're still seeing the same crap & that's not a good sign.

As i've said in other threads, whether mcnair keeps him 1 more year or goes in another direction wouldn't bother me at all.

Thorn
11-13-2008, 06:47 PM
I for one want Kubiak to stay, I think he'll be a great coach someday. On the other hand, if he's gonna go, he needs to go after this season. Our youngsters are getting older and if they have to go through another playbook change, the sooner the better for everyone.

CloakNNNdagger
11-13-2008, 07:25 PM
I for one want Kubiak to stay, I think he'll be a great coach someday. On the other hand, if he's gonna go, he needs to go after this season. Our youngsters are getting older and if they have to go through another playbook change, the sooner the better for everyone.


I think that this is an important point. Yes, there have been repeated poor decisions and poor choices all along the way. What few potentially half way descent "midlife" players have been on previous Texans rosters have outlived their prime just waiting for a reasonable team build. Some of our previously considered "young" players may not outlive the present regime......whether you wish to blame it on inadequate time or inadequate minds, the result remains unchanged.

Vinny
11-13-2008, 07:32 PM
quote from article in the first post...
McNair is remaining optimistic with seven games remaining in the season. He talks to Kubiak almost daily, and is often around the team, either in practice or in the postgame locker room.
Every year Bob McNair is optimistic with seven games remaining while his team is out of the hunt. Most of us have bought into at least some part of this optimism for 7 years but it's very hard as a fan to be excited about the last 7 weeks of the season when your city hasn't seen a playoff game since 1993 and the team currently has 3 wins with 2 of them coming against winless teams.

Honoring Earl 34
11-13-2008, 08:03 PM
quote from article in the first post...

Every year Bob McNair is optimistic with seven games remaining while his team is out of the hunt. Most of us have bought into at least some part of this optimism for 7 years but it's very hard as a fan to be excited about the last 7 weeks of the season when your city hasn't seen a playoff game since 1993 and the team currently has 3 wins with 2 of them coming against winless teams.

It's kinda like watching reruns .

I think the subplot is Rick Smith and Kubiak . Does Rick believe he's getting the right guys and Kubiak and staff aren't coaching them up . If so does he get in Bob's ear and get Kubiak fired before he looks incompetent .

Runner
11-13-2008, 08:12 PM
It's kinda like watching reruns .

I think the subplot is Rick Smith and Kubiak . Does Rick believe he's getting the right guys and Kubiak and staff aren't coaching them up . If so does he get in Bob's ear and get Kubiak fired before he looks incompetent .

Do you think Smith is the driver behind player identification? I think Kubiak is the main decision maker on who to pick-up, and Smith just handles the details. Kubiak was given a lot of power when he signed; I don't know that he has relinquished any.

Opinions?

ObsiWan
11-13-2008, 08:15 PM
Tom Brady
Peyton Manning
Jay Cutler
Kurt Warner
Drew Brees
Tony Romo

These are the guys I would say can operate with zero running game on a consistent, week by week basis.

Two reasons:
(a) Look at how few times these guys get sacked. So far this year:
Denver - 7 sacks
New Orleans - 8 sacks
Indy - 11 sacks
Arizona - 16 sacks (Warner is the exception - we all know he holds the ball a bit long) Last year AZ only gave up 24 sacks.
Dallas - 17 sacks (8 of those are on Brad Johnson - what's he played two games? Two were on Brooks Bollinger - what's he played, half a game? In the six games Romo has finished, he's been sacked 7 times)

If our O-line kept Schaub's uni clean all game we could throw at will too. Our two-headed Rosen-Schaub thing has already been sacked 22 times. We're on pace to give up nearly 40 sacks.

(b) And most of those teams DO have a running game. They may not be "run-first" like Tennessee and Pittsburgh but they have guys that have to be respected. IMHO, Denver is the only team that doesn't have a legit RB.
New Orleans - Deuce (when healthy), Aaron Stecker, and some would say RB.
Dallas - Marion the barbarian and (before he got hurt) Felix Jones.
Indy - Joseph Addai and Domanic Rhodes
Arizona - E. James and T. Hightower don't really scare anyone. But they can burn you if you play them cheap. And with the two stud WRs they have starting, do they need to run?

Honoring Earl 34
11-13-2008, 09:18 PM
Do you Smith is the driver behind player identification? I think Kubiak is the main decision maker on who to pick-up, and Smith just handles the details. Kubiak was given a lot of power when he signed; I don't know that he has relinquished any.

Opinions?

I'm not real sure but I do think time hasn't been kind to the Texans draft in the Kubiak era . Smith was there for two drafts along with the Schaub trade which was probably more Kubiak but he made the deal .

Kubiak had alot of power for someone who hadn't been in that position . Smith was hired because he knew the type of player Kubiak wanted/needed so it goes back to is ... Okoye , Jacoby , Molden , Bennett , Brown , Adibi , and Slaton bonafide talent or our coaching or schemes stink or maybe both .

Brown was hand picked by Gibbs to be in a ZB scheme . He may be a waisted pick if Kubiak gets fired ... who let Gibbs hand pick him ? Who let Capers hand pick Babin ? Who's at fault if these guys don't pan out ? I think this is why GM's manage the personel and coaches coach with some input .

Lucky
11-13-2008, 09:23 PM
Do you Smith is the driver behind player identification? I think Kubiak is the main decision maker on who to pick-up, and Smith just handles the details.
Absolutely. Rick Smith owes his job to Gary Kubiak's recommendation. Smith plays Scott Pioli to Kubiak's Belichick. Without the wins.

The1ApplePie
11-13-2008, 09:59 PM
Tom Brady
Peyton Manning
Jay Cutler
Kurt Warner
Drew Brees
Tony Romo

These are the guys I would say can operate with zero running game on a consistent, week by week basis.

Most have modern offensive systems to play out of. The Patriots spread offense hasn't been great with Kassell but it certainly helped out Brady

Most of those teams have young and brazen OCs calling plays

Meanwhile we are stuck with Kubes calling plays and running things like its 1998. Little Shanny might be a good OC but I think he basically holds a clippboard at this point

Texans_Chick
11-13-2008, 10:55 PM
Well, when I say stuffed, I don't necessarily mean a net loss of yardage. 0, 1 or 2 yards are all pretty well stuffs, in most instances (not all).

At any rate, I looked this up after the Titans game, when everyone was going gaga about how well Slaton did. His runs in that game were (in order): 1, 50, 1, 3, 6t, 25, 0, 11, 7, 3, 0, 4, 2, 2, -2, 3, 1, -1. That's 13 of his 18 carries that went for 3 yards or less. I love the big play potential, but I prefer a consistent running game to complement it. We're just not there yet.

Against the Ravens, Slaton had four carries for 7 yards. I'll just say he didn't have enough carries in that one and leave it at that. Against Minnesota, he had 16 carries for 62 yards. 9 of those carries were for 3 yards or less. That's better. 9 of his 15 runs against the Bengals were for 3 yards or less. 17 carries for 80 yards against the Lions, and 37 of them came in one run. As I said, I love the explosiveness, but we don't have a steady run game to complement him. Furthermore, as I said above, when we absolutely need to run the ball, like to run the clock out against the Colts, or to punch it in for a TD, Slaton's not the guy, and we really have no one else at this point.

So yeah, the running game has improved, because you have to take into account big plays. What I'm referring to is the ability to consistently run the ball. We do well between the 20s in down-distance situations that aren't obvious running situations. We don't run well when it's 3rd and short, or near the goal line, or at the end of a game to preserve a lead.

None of this should be construed as anything against Slaton. I think he's a valuable guy, and he would be the perfect complement to a back like what DD used to be.

Colts destroyed the Ravens. They kept running even though it didn't work well except for one big run. You have to keep good run stuffing teams honest or they will bring the house.

ObsiWan
11-14-2008, 04:27 AM
I hope this "tired of losing" thing doesn't translate into McNair becoming a Gulf Coast Jerry Jones or Al Davis.

BigBull17
11-14-2008, 12:47 PM
I'm of the mind that if it is broke...you deal with it now. Who really cares about how your franchise looks to the media and the fans if you make a move in the middle of the season? Newsflash....they are laughing at you Bob. Waiting till the end of the season to get rid of RS isn't making you look any classier. Firing RS right now does two things. It sends a message to the players that we won't put up with mediocrity and once you fire RS you go into the locker room and tell everyone your game is on film and YOU are next if you don't get it in gear. That's how you motivate these rich players who are just going thru the motions trying to avoid injury so they can cash their lofty paychecks. You don't run a football team like the accounting department Bob. Football seasons are a sprint...not a marathon.

We arent that highly thought of anyway. We are a "joke", change it now. Damn, Im tired of sucking.

Wolf6151
11-14-2008, 01:19 PM
Hey Uncle Bob you'll be the hero of the town if you do it now and get it over with.

cowbellm00
11-15-2008, 12:07 PM
"I'm impatient," McNair said. "I have been patient, but I'm impatient. I thought we would be doing better at this point in time and we're not and I'm disappointed about it. So then the next question is, what are you going to do?

Hopefully this spells "see ya Smith".
:texflag:

Vinny
11-15-2008, 02:47 PM
The problem is really easily identified, actually. It's just that very few people on this board want to acknowledge it, because that means it isn't fixable, and people just want a sacrifice.

The players are making mistakes and/or they aren't good enough. 99% of our offensive woes fall on TWO players - Schaub and Sage. It's really that simple. People keep wanting to blame Kubiak, but there is only so much coaches can do. One position is betraying this offense. We have no real feature back, our center position is a liability vs any team that has a strong inside Tackle situation and our Guard play is mediocre and inconsistent with Pitts being the better of the two and our Tackle play this season has been below average...just wanted to take issue with the 99% thing since that has been bugging me.

nflnutswife
11-15-2008, 03:04 PM
Smith hasn't done us any favors,and he wouldn't be missed. My own opinion is we don't have any team leader, none. Johnson is an awesome player but too quiet to be a motivator. Matt is no leader, Mario might be someone for the team to look to but he doesn't project authority.
We have no uniformity, or that charismatic confidence of a winning team.
Every winning team needs a TEAM leader. We've never had one. I'm growing impatient too. Will I go anywhere? NO!:texflag: