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Koolaid Time
11-12-2008, 09:21 AM
The NCAA better reconsider. Obama will have Charlie Rangel and the other Obama-Thugs on the House Ways and Means Committee create some excise tax on sports events that pretty much cripples them.

You don't say "no" to the Messiah. If you do you will pay through the nose.

One person who won't be swayed by President-elect Barack Obama's recent call for an eight-team national college football playoff is Oregon president David Frohnmayer, chair of the BCS Presidential Oversight Committee.


"We deeply respect the president-elect and we are glad that he is a fan of college football," Frohnmayer said in an e-mail response to ESPN Tuesday. "We have the most compelling regular season in all of sports, and I'm sure that contributes to Senator Obama's enjoyment of our great game."

Frohnmayer opposes a playoff for the former Division I-A. Other presidents on the committee are Rev. John Jenkins (Notre Dame), Robert Khayat (Ole Miss), Mark Nordenberg (Pittsburgh), John Peters (Northern Illinois), Harvey Perlman (Nebraska), Graham Spanier (Penn State) and Charles Steger (Virginia Tech.)

"My colleagues and I on the BCS Presidential Oversight Committee have discussed the future of postseason football on many occasions and we do not believe a playoff would be in the best interest of the sport, the student-athletes or our many other constituencies," Frohnmayer said.

When asked what change he'd make in sports during last week's Monday Night Football broadcast, Obama said "I think it's about time we had playoffs in college football. I'm fed up with these computer rankings and this that and the other. Get eight teams -- the top eight teams right at the end. You got a playoff. Decide on a national champion."

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=3697109

bah007
11-12-2008, 09:38 AM
I love how everyone blames the computer rankings when they are the only component of the BCS that isn't biased.

Yankee_In_TX
11-12-2008, 09:50 AM
I believe I heard on the radio the BCS TV rights are up for grabs, and a 15 year contract is being pushed. Which means no playoffs for at least 15 year, while the rich get richer and the sport makes no sense.

TimeKiller
11-12-2008, 10:07 AM
I can't take college football talk unless it's the draft or I get suckered in to reading about because Obama was mentioned...everyone complains sooooo much about it.

Dread-Head
11-12-2008, 11:00 AM
Unbaised? Fool please. No matter WHAT their records or who they played any given season, Notre Dame, USC, Miami, LSU, Florida State, Nebraska and Ohio State and U.T. ALWAYS get a bowl game. That's fair? Hell under the CURRENT SYSTEM wasn't there a statistical TIE one year for #1 so they just gave it to the team they liked more? The current system is BS and you know it.

Vinny
11-12-2008, 11:35 AM
The NCAA better reconsider. Obama will have Charlie Rangel and the other Obama-Thugs on the House Ways and Means Committee create some excise tax on sports events that pretty much cripples them.

You don't say "no" to the Messiah. If you do you will pay through the nose.

One person who won't be swayed by President-elect Barack Obama's recent call for an eight-team national college football playoff is Oregon president David Frohnmayer, chair of the BCS Presidential Oversight Committee.


Berman asked a frivolous question to each candidate during the Redskin halftime if there is anything he would liked to see changed in sports. Obama simply said 'lets have some playoffs in College football'. Getting all angry about this is idiotic. Don't waste too much energy on what Obama likes to eat in the morning...you are gonna have a rough 4-8 years.

Goldensilence
11-12-2008, 11:48 AM
Seriously? Seriously? Obama-messiah? ........ :gun:

Are people seriously going to go brain-dead when he mentions something that many have said they'd like to see as well?

No way the presidential oversight committee chairman is opposed to getting rid of the BCS?!

Way to go tilting at a windmill.

disaacks3
11-12-2008, 11:55 AM
I love how everyone blames the computer rankings when they are the only component of the BCS that isn't biased. They aren't? How so?

If "computer rankings" take into account such things as "strength of schedule" they too HAVE to be biased. How can you determine the "strength of schedule without first determining what teams are strong? You do that by going on those teams "ranking". What determines that ranking? Humans...

It's a circular argument. Link to BCS components and calculations (http://www.tellshowbcs.com/FAQ.html)

I love the comment from Frohnmayer - Playoffs are good enough in every other sport in Division I, as well as football in Division II. (not to mention the NFL) It's a load of B.S. - The fact that he can say it with a straight face proves that he too should have been a politician.

Hookem Horns
11-12-2008, 12:04 PM
Do you hate Obama so much that you're actually disagreeing with him on this?

Not having a playoff in CF is probably the most retarded thing in sports. Sure it's all about greed and money for the schools and the bowls however it's just ridiculous how they try to sell the thing. "Most intriguing regular season", my a**.

Some teams don't even have a chance before the season starts. Boise State can go undefeated and never have a chance at a NC. Basically if you are a fan of that school you have to realize that your team has no shot at ever making a NC game, no matter how good they are. For teams like them the season is over before it even starts.

What would you think if the NFL decided to eliminate playoffs? Yeah, let's just vote for the best 2 teams after the season. If that were the case the Cowboys would have been voted in last year without having to prove anything in the postseason. The Giants would have been sitting home.

Hervoyel
11-12-2008, 12:09 PM
Obama also mentioned today that he preferred French Fries to Tater Tots at the Sonic Driver-in when he's on the road campaigning.

Can you people believe this crap? He didn't even call them Freedom Fries like he's supposed to! Now if that's not proof that he's a stinkin Marxist Muslim then I don't know what is!

Texan_Bill
11-12-2008, 12:32 PM
I'm dumber (which is hard to do) for having read this entire thread. :gun:

Dread-Head
11-12-2008, 12:33 PM
Obama also mentioned today that he preferred French Fries to Tater Tots at the Sonic Driver-in when he's on the road campaigning.

Can you people believe this crap? He didn't even call them Freedom Fries like he's supposed to! Now if that's not proof that he's a stinkin Marxist Muslim then I don't know what is!

They aren't even French...their Belgian.

bah007
11-12-2008, 01:29 PM
They aren't? How so?

If "computer rankings" take into account such things as "strength of schedule" they too HAVE to be biased. How can you determine the "strength of schedule without first determining what teams are strong? You do that by going on those teams "ranking". What determines that ranking? Humans...

It's a circular argument. Link to BCS components and calculations (http://www.tellshowbcs.com/FAQ.html)

I love the comment from Frohnmayer - Playoffs are good enough in every other sport in Division I, as well as football in Division II. (not to mention the NFL) It's a load of B.S. - The fact that he can say it with a straight face proves that he too should have been a politician.

Strength of schedule is determined by winning percentages, not by polls.

So there goes that argument...

bah007
11-12-2008, 01:49 PM
As I've said before:

I'm not against a playoff. I just haven't seen a scenario that I think is better than what we currently have. If you have one....drop it on me.

The BCS is the best thing that has ever happened to the mid majors. Y'all are acting like it's terrible.

Things are not perfect with the system. Obviously.

But things are better now than they were before the BCS was created and I believe they will continue to get better.

Change doesn't always happen right away. What the NCAA wants to do is keep the tradition of the bowl games, which I love. If they can create a playoff that still does that then that would be fantastic.

GlassHalfFull
11-12-2008, 01:53 PM
I remember bringing this up as a good reason to vote for Obama.

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54124&highlight=good+reason+vote+obama

disaacks3
11-12-2008, 02:02 PM
Strength of schedule is determined by winning percentages, not by polls.

So there goes that argument... Uhmm...no. Otherwise a win against Delaware St. would be equal to a win against UT. Thanks for playing!

TexanSam
11-12-2008, 02:20 PM
As I've said before:

I'm not against a playoff. I just haven't seen a scenario that I think is better than what we currently have. If you have one....drop it one me.

Um, 8 team playoff.

bah007
11-12-2008, 02:22 PM
Uhmm...no. Otherwise a win against Delaware St. would be equal to a win against UT. Thanks for playing!

Per your link:

A team's win over an opponent does not get added into the sum of its opponents losses and vise versa. Wins over Div1AA teams do not count but losses do. Victories by Div1AA teams over other Div1AA teams are also discarded but the losses count. Games between Div1AA teams and DivII teams are discarded altogether.

In the case of Kent St (the only FBS team to have played Delware St):

Delware St's schedule:
L - Florida A&M
L - Kent St (doesn't count against Kent St's SOS)
L - Hampton
W - Bethune Cookman (wins against other FCS teams don't count against Kent St's SOS)
W - North Carolina A&T (same as Bethune Cookman)
L - Morgan St
L- South Carolina St
L - Winston Salem

So as it relates to Kent St......Delware St counts as 0-5 against Kent St's SOS.


.....Thanks for playing.

bah007
11-12-2008, 02:23 PM
Um, 8 team playoff.

I detailed the problems I have with an 8 team playoff in the other thread.

HJam72
11-12-2008, 02:28 PM
They aren't even French...their Belgian.

You mean they really did make those somewhere else before we Americans decided to fry them and kill ourselves? All this time we've been blaming ourselves when there is a scapegoat.

disaacks3
11-12-2008, 03:09 PM
Here's just ONE example: From Sagarin's "computer" rankings. Sagarin link (http://www.kiva.net/~jsagarin/sports/cfsend.htm)

W-L record is calculated with regards to vs. top 10 and vs. top 30. Even HIS system has to have a starting point, otherwise you'd end up w/ multiple way ties based on record alone.

For the first few weeks of the season, the starting ratings have weight in the process(BAYESIAN), but once the teams are all CONNECTED, then the starting ratings are no longer used and all teams are started equal and the ELO-CHESS is then done in an UNBIASED manner from that point on. RATING and PREDICTOR are now unbiased and the ELO-CHESS is now UNBIASED

I'm not saying that they're not better, but w/o a starting point, all wins would be equal no matter the opponent, and that simply isn't the case, even with COMPUTER models.

Richard Billingsly's System (http://www.cfrc.com/Archives/Dynamics_08.htm)

Starting Position- This is one of the most hotly debated subjects in rankings. Starting position DOES have an impact in rankings, especially in human polls where it is a HUGE advantage, and it does make a slight difference in my rankings.


So, keep telling me all you want about how there isn't any human bias built in. These are the guys that built THEIR models and THEY say so.

TEXANRED
11-12-2008, 03:19 PM
The NCAA better reconsider. Obama will have Charlie Rangel and the other Obama-Thugs on the House Ways and Means Committee create some excise tax on sports events that pretty much cripples them.

You don't say "no" to the Messiah. If you do you will pay through the nose.

You righties kill me. We have had 8 years of the goverment reading your emails, listening to your phone calls, and restricting your movements, but its the Dems that are the thugs.

So how does that bitterness taste?

bah007
11-12-2008, 04:03 PM
Here's just ONE example: From Sagarin's "computer" rankings. Sagarin link (http://www.kiva.net/~jsagarin/sports/cfsend.htm)

W-L record is calculated with regards to vs. top 10 and vs. top 30. Even HIS system has to have a starting point, otherwise you'd end up w/ multiple way ties based on record alone.



I'm not saying that they're not better, but w/o a starting point, all wins would be equal no matter the opponent, and that simply isn't the case, even with COMPUTER models.

Richard Billingsly's System (http://www.cfrc.com/Archives/Dynamics_08.htm)




So, keep telling me all you want about how there isn't any human bias built in. These are the guys that built THEIR models and THEY say so.

I know about Sagarin's system. By the end of the season though, all the teams are connected by common opponents. At the start of the season, he does have to use human rankings, but by the end there is no more human bias involved. I think his system is the best.

If you ever want to kill an argument about the computers, just bring up Richard Billingsley. I have no defense for him. His model is absolutely terrible. For years now, it has been completely unreliable and erratic. You got me there. I have no idea why it is even still used in the BCS.

In fact, I think the reason they throw out the highest and lowest of the five computer scores is because that eliminates Billingsley's score at least 50% of the time.

mussop
11-12-2008, 08:08 PM
Oboma should focus on keeping ALL those promises he made instead of worrying about sports. Not since Jimmy Carter have I seen a presidential candidate make so MANY promises. If he keeps just half of them I will be amazed.

Hervoyel
11-12-2008, 08:26 PM
Obama also mentioned today that he preferred French Fries to Tater Tots at the Sonic Driver-in when he's on the road campaigning.

Can you people believe this crap? He didn't even call them Freedom Fries like he's supposed to! Now if that's not proof that he's a stinkin Marxist Muslim then I don't know what is!

They aren't even French...their Belgian.

Why those sneaky little Belgians! Probably working with the French to undermine the countries faith in their Freedom Fries and Barak Obama is right there in the thick of it!

Ryan
11-12-2008, 08:31 PM
I say have a shortened season, like about 8 games, with nothing but conference games, and have like a 32 team playoff to decide the champion.

hollywood_texan
11-12-2008, 09:37 PM
I think there are multiple problems with an 8 team playoff and they are:

1. All the other bowl games will probably fall beside the way side. Meaning the teams that don't make the 8 team playoff, won't play in a bowl game or attend a bowl game that no one will care about. This playoff thing will have to run for 3 weeks.

2. How do you pick the 8 teams? Let's say the first six come from the conference winners (SEC, Big XII, Big Ten, ACC, and Big East) with 2 at large bids for the smaller conferences. That seems problematic and there still will be the same complaining that is going on now.

3. What about the conferences with Championship games?

4. Then what about Notre Dame and their unique status/preference?

5. What about the conferences that are really strong and another conferences that are really weak? If you are going to have 8 teams, why can't you have more than one team from one conference? I don't see how you address that issue with just an 8 team playoff. Not enough spots to go around.

6. How do you decide who plays who and where?

If they implement this 8 team playoff, I see that the end result probably would mean the six automatic bid conferences will converg together and then the smaller schools in those conferences will be squeezed out. If that happens how does that affect other sports in those conferences? Not to mention their football programs.

The reason that this convergence will happen is that there are 65 teams in the six automatic bid conferences. There isn't enough to go around and the smaller programs will suffer.

If you are fine with an 8 team playoff why not a 16 or 32 team playoff? Why not add another 1 or 2 weeks to the playoff format?

bah007
11-12-2008, 10:33 PM
I say have a shortened season, like about 8 games, with nothing but conference games, and have like a 32 team playoff to decide the champion.

What about teams that play more than 8 conference games per season?

Wolf
11-13-2008, 01:27 AM
IF OU beats texas tech ....my feelings (and usually wrong) but .. OU moves ahead of Texas in the standings

which who is to figure out?
human speculation?

Texan JBZ
11-13-2008, 03:39 AM
The BCS needs to be trashed. It's as simple as this - do what the other division do and have a 16-team playoff! Check out some of the first round matchups if the season ended today (based off of AP Poll):

Texas Tech's High-Flying O vs TCU Hard Hitting, Ball Hawking D

Texas's Colt McCoy & Quan Cosby vs Georgia's Matt Stafford & AJ Green

USC's Star-Laden D vs OK State's Dez Bryant & Kendall Hunter

OU's Sam Bradford vs Mizzou's Chase Daniels

Vengeance: Rematch of Penn State vs Ohio State

And what would probably be the most entertaining game of the weekend:
Utah vs Boise State

Man, oh man, oh man! Get the cold beer and hot wings ready, the misses a trip to the day spa, and the kids an appointment with granny!

CoastalTexan
11-13-2008, 07:23 AM
I can't believe people oppose a playoff. I would say copy D1aa and D2 and every other football division and go with a 16 team playoff. Go to a few of those playoff games and tell me that a worthless Gallery furniture or papa johns bowl is better.

16 Teams consist of conference winners plus at large bids from the better conferences. Higher seeded teams play at home. Win or Go Home, how much simpler can it get? EVERY sport at EVERY level has a playoff except d1a college football.

Kaiser Toro
11-13-2008, 07:37 AM
An NCAA Football playoff would actually make college football a true sport, right now it is just an exhibition with no true champion.

I always wondered what Obama meant by change, now I know. I am all for it, since the Bowl's are nothing but junkets for the School Presidents/Administrators/the boosters and wanted by most head coaches and a bevy of advertisers. I want a true champion, college football wants feel good stories. This is a big reason why I am a pro footbal fan.

Silver Oak
11-13-2008, 07:44 AM
I say have a shortened season, like about 8 games, with nothing but conference games, and have like a 32 team playoff to decide the champion.


that's a pretty good idea actually. at a minimum it would reduce the talk of who you did or didn't play on your non-conference schedule.

eriadoc
11-13-2008, 12:34 PM
I genuinely and wholeheartedly hope that Obama spends all of his time and energy over the next four years trying to implement a college football playoff system, but only because I care more for the country than I do for college football.

bah007
11-13-2008, 02:10 PM
The BCS needs to be trashed. It's as simple as this - do what the other division do and have a 16-team playoff! Check out some of the first round matchups if the season ended today (based off of AP Poll):

Texas Tech's High-Flying O vs TCU Hard Hitting, Ball Hawking D

Texas's Colt McCoy & Quan Cosby vs Georgia's Matt Stafford & AJ Green

USC's Star-Laden D vs OK State's Dez Bryant & Kendall Hunter

OU's Sam Bradford vs Mizzou's Chase Daniels

Vengeance: Rematch of Penn State vs Ohio State

And what would probably be the most entertaining game of the weekend:
Utah vs Boise State

Man, oh man, oh man! Get the cold beer and hot wings ready, the misses a trip to the day spa, and the kids an appointment with granny!

There are no ACC teams ranked in the top 16. Would the conference champ from the ACC be excluded?

Texan JBZ
11-13-2008, 09:28 PM
There are no ACC teams ranked in the top 16. Would the conference champ from the ACC be excluded?

Yes! But if you look at the polls, North Carolina is #17. If they were to win out and then win the ACC Championship, they would be in the top 16 teams.

bah007
11-14-2008, 01:51 AM
Yes! But if you look at the polls, North Carolina is #17. If they were to win out and then win the ACC Championship, they would be in the top 16 teams.

Ok.

I guess I'm just confused because you had said if the season ended today in your earlier post, and North Carolina isn't in the top 16 yet.

Wolf
11-16-2008, 11:28 PM
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/news?slug=ap-bcsstandings&prov=ap&type=lgns

Also on Sunday, BCS coordinator John Swofford responded to a playoff push by President-elect Barack Obama that was broadcast on CBS’ “60 Minutes.

“First of all I want to congratulate newly elected President Obama and I am glad he has a passion for college football like so many other Americans,” Swofford said in a statement. “For now, our constituencies—and I know he understands constituencies—have settled on the current BCS system, which the majority believe is the best system yet to determine a national champion while also maintaining the college football regular season as the best and most meaningful in sports.”

Swofford added: “We certainly respect the opinions of president-elect Obama and welcome dialogue on what’s best for college football.”

Obama said he will use his influence to create such a system.

“If you’ve got a bunch of teams who play throughout the season, and many of them have one loss or two losses, there’s no clear decisive winner. We should be creating a playoff system,” he told reporter Steve Kroft.

According to Obama’s proposed system, eight teams would play over three rounds to settle the national champion.

“It would add three extra weeks to the season,” he said at the conclusion of a wide-ranging interview. “You could trim back on the regular season. I don’t know any serious fan of college football who has disagreed with me on this. So, I’m going to throw my weight around a little bit. I think it’s the right thing to do.”



reading this ...
1) winner of alabama-florida goes (no brainer)
2)USC also needs help to win the Pac-10 championship and earn a trip to the Rose Bowl. Oregon State, which beat the Trojans in September, can earn a Rose Bowl bid with victories at Arizona and against Oregon.
3)Penn State and Utah can both lock up spots in the Bowl Championship Series on Saturday with victories.
4)The Nittany Lions can win the Big Ten title and a spot in the Rose Bowl by beating Michigan State in Happy Valley.

That is 5 spots (potentially) taken

NO playoff system, NCAA loves the controversy it generates

and loving it

Would be funny if Oklahoma beats Tech (How could Tech drop far losing to #4 team in nation) and then who goes to Big 12 title game where it is a triangle of each team beating the other

and top that off say Tech wins and somehow loses the Big 12 championship to Missouri .. (I doubt it )

stupid what-if web and NCAA would love it and it would generate speculation again

just get a dang playoff system and settle it on the field

bah007
11-16-2008, 11:45 PM
The state of Texas may explode if OU beats Tech this Saturday.

Either Tech or UT will be a top 5 team playing in the Cotton Bowl.

Wolf
11-16-2008, 11:56 PM
The state of Texas may explode if OU beats Tech this Saturday.

Either Tech or UT will be a top 5 team playing in the Cotton Bowl.

I will be happy ,but I am wondering how the computer rankings will go

would a win over the #2 team in the nation put them above Texas?

time will tell I guess but like I said, NCAA is loving the controversy

bah007
11-17-2008, 12:16 AM
I will be happy ,but I am wondering how the computer rankings will go

would a win over the #2 team in the nation put them above Texas?

time will tell I guess but like I said, NCAA is loving the controversy

The more I've had time to think about it the more resigned I've become to the scenario that OU jumps Texas in the BCS.

If OU beats Tech, I think they will jump Texas in the human polls but not quite in the computers. Texas will stay ahead of them in the BCS and OU will possibly jump Florida.

But the real damage will be done if OU beats Okie St while Texas is ruining their SOS rating by playing A&M.

So all in all, I wouldn't be surprised to see this next Sunday:
1. Alabama
2. Texas
3. Oklahoma
4. Florida
5. Texas Tech

But after rivalry week I think OU jumps Texas...
1. Alabama
2. Oklahoma
3. Texas
4. Florida
5. Texas Tech

Any way it goes I see the National Championship as Bama/UF vs Tech/OU/UT.

bah007
11-17-2008, 12:17 AM
The really crappy thing in all this is that Tech has no shot in a three-way tie because of the timing of their loss.

But they also control their own destiny if they win.

Ryan
11-19-2008, 11:31 PM
What about teams that play more than 8 conference games per season?


you just shorten their season. But the only thing they would need to figure out is to how to get teams like Notre Dame to play games. Maybe add 1-2 out of conference games for teams?

bah007
11-19-2008, 11:33 PM
you just shorten their season. But the only thing they would need to figure out is to how to get teams like Notre Dame to play games. Maybe add 1-2 out of conference games for teams?

That's not fair to the Pac 10.

They play nine conference games so that everybody plays everybody and they can have a true conference champion instead of the split co-champions that you sometimes see in the Big Ten.

Ryan
11-20-2008, 07:47 AM
That's not fair to the Pac 10.

They play nine conference games so that everybody plays everybody and they can have a true conference champion instead of the split co-champions that you sometimes see in the Big Ten.

If they can't decide a conference champion in the Pac-10 in 8 games then there is something majorly wrong. They probably could decide it in 5 on most years.

bah007
11-20-2008, 12:17 PM
If they can't decide a conference champion in the Pac-10 in 8 games then there is something majorly wrong. They probably could decide it in 5 on most years.

Funny you say that since this very season it will take all 9 games.

They don't have a conference championship game because they don't have 12 teams.

So they do the next best thing and have all members play each other.

You would rather have it like the Big Ten where two teams can tie for the conference championship never having even played each other?