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View Full Version : Sorry but Fans deserve better


cmiller
01-02-2005, 07:57 PM
Bottom Line....this is a losing team. This is the 3rd year for a franchise with a supposedly outstanding QB, a great training facility, a great owner, a great city to pull in fans from and the list goes on. So why are there so many bleeding hearts out there saying " we made progress". Baloney! We regressed as a team and the playcalling was atrocious. Would you have put Carr back in after pulling him on that 4th quarter sack??? Remember the game when Carr was clearly hurt and "Dumb" Capers put Carr back in only to be humiliated. What Capers seems to be proving is one thing to one person. He is sticking with Carr because he is "behind him".
Winning coaches make tough decisions and sometimes that means benching your future star mid-season, mid-game---whatever. This is a coach who looks baffled by the paycalling, is heard to be challenging offensive calls but yet not reacting to fix them , and is still losing. Capers is a mediocre coach. Period. If the fans want "progress" every year then I am all for it, but I don't think most are for "progress" if that word follows a hollow , inconsistent result. Losing is losing and 3 years running and still looking like an expansion team is unacceptable to this season ticket holder. I can only hope we as fans don't develop the same apathetic reaction Capers elicits and I hope we start calling for a change---at the top. Fire "Dumb" Capers!!!!!!!!!!

Harry Biped
01-02-2005, 08:03 PM
Watch yourself cmiller. Telling the truth is not very popular around here.

the wonger need food
01-02-2005, 08:07 PM
Amen brotha. Look out though, there are a lot of apologists on this board who are happy with a losing season and looking like an expansion team. At least you didn't call out D Carr or there would be hell to pay. Remember, the guy is practically in the HOF already.

I agree, there was very little if any "progress" this year. Too many emberrassing loses. Too much inconsistency. Too many uninpsired efforts.

Today's loss was unacceptable on every level.

powda
01-02-2005, 08:12 PM
what a great idea! establish a thread specifically for every board member who suddenly has no faith in this team to express their disgust without being a downer for the rest of us...

cry. cry to your hearts content.

Westside
01-02-2005, 08:22 PM
Give me a break! Total lack of objectivity on your part! They clearly improved over their first two seasons. Definately need to improve their offensive line and their pass rush!

the wonger need food
01-02-2005, 08:29 PM
Give me a break! Total lack of objectivity on your part! They clearly improved over their first two seasons. Definately need to improve their offensive line and their pass rush!

They did not "clearly improve". The stats were slightly better and they had 2 more wins, but they were more inconsistent, less motivated and less prepared. They also lost to the worst team in the NFL. That's not definitive improvement.

Harry Biped
01-02-2005, 08:30 PM
The only level of "improvement" that the Texans have had the past 2 seasons can only be attributed to the increase in talent and depth on the team, not the system actually working. Losing is losing. By 1 point or 40 points, 12 games a year or 9 games a year. It is well below what they are capable of and has always been. A good coach gets the best out of his players not just a respectable effort. Its the NFL where fans pay $40+ a ticket to watch a game, not peewee football, where your parents are proud of you for trying. There is nothing wrong with fans demanding more than what we have gotten so far.

powda
01-02-2005, 08:37 PM
allow me to reiterate a post you choose to ignore on another thread (and let me remind you it was after calling everyone with an ounce of optimism ignorant about football...you also said we were in denial :heh: ):




what goals did you set for this team this year? winning record? playoffs? superbowl?

if your looking for a perinial playoff team and or a superbowl winning dynasty then your in denial. we still have lots of "expansion talent".

if you dont think 5-11 vs 7-9 is progress then your in denial (as well as mathmatically inept).

if you dont think a sweep of the jags and titans is progress then your in denial.

if you dont think remaining in honest playoff contention till mid november is progress then your in denial.

if you dont think continually adding young players who are begining to pan out (namely johnson and robinson) wont pay dividens in the near future your in denial.

if you think being 7-9 is going to have a major impact on how well we finish next year your in denial.

if you want to b*tch and moan about ticket prices going up. dont buy them. save them for a fan who might actually cheer.

cmiller
01-02-2005, 08:43 PM
Thx for the reply but I would never take the rebuttal of a fellow who can't spell "definitely".

Hervoyel
01-02-2005, 08:49 PM
The Texans improvement cannot be disputed. In wins and statistics they improved. Those numbers cannot be argued because they are what they are.

The complaining is a direct result of their improvement because they didn't improve to a level that meets the expectations they themselves created by continuing to get better.

If they improve by two more games next season and end it 9-7 are there going to be complaints? Will there be complaints if that 9-7 doesn't get them into postseason play?

They were inconsistent this year. Guess what? That's a mark of a team on the verge. Teams on the verge of breaking out and turning a corner are inconsistent. Teams on the verge of slipping down from being good are also inconsistent. If the Texans were finishing up 7-9 after years of 11-5 and 12-4 then I'd say this inconsistency was a bad sign. Instead they're following 4-12 and 5-11 years.

They're on the rise not the decline. Upset the wagon now and you aren't going to be getting that 9-7 or 10-6 next year. You're going to be looking at 6-10 or 5-11. Fire everyone, replace a bunch of linemen and start over if you want to. Better yet leave this team alone and follow the Browns because that's the result of the kind of change most posters are advocating.

the wonger need food
01-02-2005, 08:51 PM
allow me to reiterate a post you choose to ignore on another thread (and let me remind you it was after calling everyone with an ounce of optimism ignorant about football...you also said we were in denial :heh: ):




what goals did you set for this team this year? winning record? playoffs? superbowl?

if your looking for a perinial playoff team and or a superbowl winning dynasty then your in denial. we still have lots of "expansion talent".

if you dont think 5-11 vs 7-9 is progress then your in denial (as well as mathmatically inept).

if you dont think a sweep of the jags and titans is progress then your in denial.

if you dont think remaining in honest playoff contention till mid november is progress then your in denial.

if you dont think continually adding young players who are begining to pan out (namely johnson and robinson) wont pay dividens in the near future your in denial.

if you think being 7-9 is going to have a major impact on how well we finish next year your in denial.

if you want to b*tch and moan about ticket prices going up. dont buy them. save them for a fan who might actually cheer.

1.) Compete in every game. Beat the teams you're supposed to beat and win a few against good teams.
2.) At least get a system in place that can accomplish this in a few years.
3.) Progress can't be measured by wins and losses alone.
4.) Sweeping the Jags and Tacks was a moral victory, not necessarily progress.
5.) Practically every team is in playoff contention in November.
6.) What's your point here? Of course you want to add young talent.
7.) Hopefully next season will not reflect this season in any way. They still looked like an expansion team this year.
8.) Ticket prices will continue to rise before they decline. To not ***** about it would be un-American.

Hervoyel
01-02-2005, 08:51 PM
Thx for the reply but I would never take the rebuttal of a fellow who can't spell "definitely".

The spelling police. Last bastion of the poster who doesn't have a real response.

TexanBacker93
01-02-2005, 09:05 PM
As of yet I am unaware of anyone being forced to purchase tickets. If the ticket prices go up and you don't like it, don't buy them. It's a business.

Sweeping Tennessee and Jacksonville while going 4-2 in the division isn't a moral victory. That's a 3 game improvement in a tough division.

I've yet to see an expansion team become a perennial playoff performer in their 3rd year. I'd rather the Texans continue to build a solid team rather than go for a quick payoff and then 10 years of ineptitude.

I'm as frustrated with today's game as anyone, but does anyone really think it would make a difference towards next season if they won today? The same problems will still be addressed (hopefully). Casserly and company have upgraded the talent level of the team each year and there is no reason to think they won't again. This isn't MLB where they can just pick up the most expensive players each year and buy a win. Ask Redskin fan if that approach works in the NFL. The Patriots are the model to look at to build an outstanding football team. A couple of solid contributors each year and maintain salary cap flexibility.

aj.
01-02-2005, 09:11 PM
This is all pretty entertaining considering the euphoria last week - and now the venom, hate and despair. Who could have imagined a win over the Browns could have been so important? Yes, 8-8 would have been nice and the ineptitude of the offense today was about as frustrating as it gets but big picture this season was far from a failure

powda
01-02-2005, 09:14 PM
1.) Compete in every game. Beat the teams you're supposed to beat and win a few against good teams.
2.) At least get a system in place that can accomplish this in a few years.
3.) Progress can't be measured by wins and losses alone.
4.) Sweeping the Jags and Tacks was a moral victory, not necessarily progress.
5.) Practically every team is in playoff contention in November.
6.) What's your point here? Of course you want to add young talent.
7.) Hopefully next season will not reflect this season in any way. They still looked like an expansion team this year.
8.) Ticket prices will continue to rise before they decline. To not ***** about it would be un-American.


-every team competes in every game....otherwise they wouldnt play games.

-our offense didnt rank in the top 10 for at least half the season and improve as a whole from last year? thats progress. its not going to happen overnight.

-playoff apperances are made based on winning records. better winning records are progress

-sweeping afc south competition is progress. that counts for 6 games a season and a chief obsticle to the playoffs.

-not just young talent. talent on the way to the pro bowl and talent about to win a second consecutive rookie award.

-they did look like an expansion team at times this year. what did you expect? for the first time however they also resembled a legitimate nfl team for brief times

-if you know prices are going up why question it? dont use "its the american way" as an excuse to promote your sour opinion. you want to express your opinon to the team? a. dont buy tickets b. root for a diffrent team

Harry Biped
01-02-2005, 09:22 PM
As of yet I am unaware of anyone being forced to purchase tickets. If the ticket prices go up and you don't like it, don't buy them. It's a business.

Sweeping Tennessee and Jacksonville while going 4-2 in the division isn't a moral victory. That's a 3 game improvement in a tough division.

I've yet to see an expansion team become a perennial playoff performer in their 3rd year. I'd rather the Texans continue to build a solid team rather than go for a quick payoff and then 10 years of ineptitude.

I'm as frustrated with today's game as anyone, but does anyone really think it would make a difference towards next season if they won today? The same problems will still be addressed (hopefully). Casserly and company have upgraded the talent level of the team each year and there is no reason to think they won't again. This isn't MLB where they can just pick up the most expensive players each year and buy a win. Ask Redskin fan if that approach works in the NFL. The Patriots are the model to look at to build an outstanding football team. A couple of solid contributors each year and maintain salary cap flexibility.
And if you don't like Bar-B-Q pits then don't buy Bar-B-Q pits, but if you choose to do so, then you have a right to expect that it not be an inferior product. You can't effect change without having a voice. There is nothing wrong with making a statement calling for the situation to improve. All of that said, it is still not anyone else's business whether I buy season tickets or not. It's not out of place for someone to complain about the product on the website of the product. Making excuses for the Texans won't help them one bit. I don't expect them to be a perennial power just yet, but I'm tired of leaving every game upset that they did not perform to the level that they are capable of. The division was not near as tough as it has been and the Titans were a terrible team this season. Beating the Jags was nice, but we've already done that. If you subtract the talent that the Texans added in the offseason, you'll find that the team did not improve one bit from last year to this. That is simply not an acceptable standard for a team with high expectations.

powda
01-02-2005, 09:36 PM
why do i get the feeling your the type of guy to demand his money back for a quarter-pounder at mcdonalds because your burger should of had just one more piece of lettuce or your beverage needed more fizz.

service industry terrorist. :rofl:

and i wonder...if the texans had won today would it make the bathrooms at reliant stadium any cleaner or the lines at the concessions any shorter?

Wolf
01-02-2005, 09:42 PM
depends on the expectations of the bbq.. if you expect backstrap and get hindquarters.. well you still get deer,but not what you expected

TexanBacker93
01-02-2005, 09:46 PM
If you subtract the talent that the Texans added in the offseason, you'll find that the team did not improve one bit from last year to this. That is simply not an acceptable standard for a team with high expectations.

They did add pieces, though, and they improved. What high expectations? Whose expectations? None of the players, coaches, members of management, or the owner came out and said it was playoffs or bust. In fact if you look back at these forums very few fans had playoffs as their do or die goals for the year.

If I don't like my BBQ pit it's my choice if I don't want to do business with them again. If they raise the prices it's my choice to go somewhere else. The same as with a sports team. It's their choice what to set the ticket prices at.

powda
01-02-2005, 09:48 PM
expectations...thats what its all about.

ever since the game 2-3 posters have been in here feverishly expressing their disgust in the texans. what i have yet to hear any of them say was what would have made them content. and what kind of record did you see us having at the begining of the season.

dont make me do some thread surfing to find your preseason win/loss expectations. if i need to i'll make a brand new thread dedicated to you guys.

the wonger need food
01-02-2005, 10:17 PM
expectations...thats what its all about.

ever since the game 2-3 posters have been in here feverishly expressing their disgust in the texans. what i have yet to hear any of them say was what would have made them content. and what kind of record did you see us having at the begining of the season.

dont make me do some thread surfing to find your preseason win/loss expectations. if i need to i'll make a brand new thread dedicated to you guys.

I predicted a 9-7 season but would have been happy with 7-9 if they could have beaten a good team and\or played consistent football. They underachieved in my opinion and I am disgusted with their overall performance this year.

I'm sure that your blind appreciation and myopic attitude is appreciated by the organization. The team needs fans like you, unfortunately I will continue to question every aspect of the organization until I feel that they have performed to their capabilities.

Westside
01-02-2005, 10:19 PM
7-9 was all I expected them to do this season. Was pleased to see them beat the Titans and the Jags twice this season but at the same time was disappointed that they couldn't beat the Colts once! Tough losses to GB & Minn were also hard to take...but give them credit for not quitting against the Vikings. As a season ticket holder I was really bothered by the offensive line play this year, especially this afternoon but at the same time I had a great time watching Dunta & Jason improve throught the season. Love going to the games...better than watching the Cowboys on TV anyday. Can understand that people had some pretty high expectations for this team, especially after last season but the reality is that this is just an average team at best right now! Perhaps they will get over the hump next year but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it! Looking forward to the draft and free agent market and am getting ready to pony up for my season tickets for next year!

Go Texans!!!!!!!

TexanBacker93
01-02-2005, 10:24 PM
If you want to look at an organization that worries about the fans with every decision and lets fans opinions control their actions look on the other side of the field. Did they outplay the Texans today? Yep. Are they a better team? Are they a better organization? Are they going to have more long term success? Nope.

Casserly, McNair, Capers, and company are smart enough to avoid the pitfalls of knee jerk reactions. They realize this isn't a great team yet. They aren't even a good team yet. They are a growing team that is playing it smart and will be a model for how to start a franchise.

Wolf
01-02-2005, 10:24 PM
I predicted a 9-7 season but would have been happy with 7-9 if they could have beaten a good team and\or played consistent football. They underachieved in my opinion and I am disgusted with their overall performance this year.

I'm sure that your blind appreciation and myopic attitude is appreciated by the organization. The team needs fans like you, unfortunately I will continue to question every aspect of the organization until I feel that they have performed to their capabilities.
did they underacheive or was it the fact that teams took us seriously and played us as an nfl team instead of an expansion team?
see what happens when we took a team lightly (browns)

personally, I think when teams took us as an NFL team and frankly we weren't ready..

utahmark
01-02-2005, 10:33 PM
The only level of "improvement" that the Texans have had the past 2 seasons can only be attributed to the increase in talent and depth on the team, not the system actually working. Losing is losing. By 1 point or 40 points, 12 games a year or 9 games a year. It is well below what they are capable of and has always been. A good coach gets the best out of his players not just a respectable effort. Its the NFL where fans pay $40+ a ticket to watch a game, not peewee football, where your parents are proud of you for trying. There is nothing wrong with fans demanding more than what we have gotten so far.


capers and palmer have had there system in place for a while. beside's a few tweaks they are not trying to improve it. they are trying to get the players in place that can run it correctly.

jacquescas
01-02-2005, 10:40 PM
look where we are, are are much better built than the browns were in year three. yes they made the playoffs but the AFC wasn't as tough then.

I dont understand what the complaints are about, we are building a team with a core of players that should keep us competitve for many years. regardless of who coaches.

right now our team has enough young talent on both sides of the ball, with significant playing time experience, as well as players entrenched in our system and getting more comfortable. I think we are where the panthers were the year before they made their superbowl run, not to say that we are superbowl bound next year, but just that we should be compeititve down to the last couple of weeks.

nunusguy
01-02-2005, 10:44 PM
It's all about expectations - had we lost last week (as was expected), but
won this week (as was expected), we'd still be 7-9 but everyone would be happy. But by winning last week expectations were elevated and now many are pis$sed off, even though we still ended 7-9.

Wolf
01-02-2005, 10:50 PM
It's all about expectations - had we lost last week (as was expected), but
won this week (as was expected), we'd still be 7-9 but everyone would be happy. But by winning last week expectations were elevated and now many are pis$sed off, even though we still ended 7-9.

AJ stated it best.. If we would have won one more game coming into this week and then lost this.. people would still gripe that we missed the playoffs.. and frankly we would get kicked in the playoffs..

The Wal-Mart
01-03-2005, 12:33 AM
People are frustrated because the quality of our wins don't match up to our losses. We were flat out embarassed by Denver and Indianapolis. Drew Brees and Antonio Gates picked us apart. We made Joey Harrington look like John Elway and Roy Williams made Aaron Glenn look old and incompetent. We had Green Bay but then decided to play conservative offense the entire second half. Indianapolis part 2 we were playing the clock when we didn't even have the lead. The Minnesota game was a heartbreaker but we played hard and put up a good fight, no shame there. Couldn't stop the run against the Jets and today's game was shocking to say the least. The score was 9-7 at halftime, if the Texans were underestimating the Browns Dom Capers should have woken them up at the break. We had good quality wins against the Titans and Jags. Quality meaning we upset teams who were supposed to beat us and played hard on both sides of the ball. Against KC had it not been for Coleman's int for a td we would have lost, Kerry Collins played horrible in Oakland just tossing up lobs and everybody beats the Bears. The bottom line, the point of all this is that it's not the record. I'm happy with 7-9, but I'm furious at the way we got there. If you've seen every game this season you know what I mean. A stagnant offense, 3 and outs, failure to capitilize on turnovers (except for KC), drives that end in field goals, horrendous playcalling, can't stop the pass, can't pressure the QB, failure to stop opponents on crucial third downs, not playing or using the talent available. That's been the theme of this season. Last year we were injury plagued, first year was the franchise year, this year we seem to be having an identity crisis. Hell, I'll be happy with a 6-10 record next season if we play hard, play to win and keep games close.