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View Full Version : Have our franchise rebuilding efforts focused on the wrong divisional opponent(s)?


houstonhurricane
11-10-2008, 07:36 PM
When Kubiak and Co. came aboard, it appeared that we began building our franchise in a way to compete against, and ultimately defeat, the Colts as they were viewed as the biggest obstacle to winning our division. This was especially true on the defensive side of the ball where our focus has been on supposed pass rushing capabilities.

My question is whether we failed to recognize or appreciate the potential rise of the Titans who run smashmouth, physical football on both sides of the ball - something this past Sunday proved we are ill-equipped to battle against.

From this point forward do we have to change our approach to be able to handle that type of football being played by the Titans/Jags (finding a bruising back, run-defending lineman and a more physical secondary)?

Texans_Chick
11-10-2008, 07:49 PM
When Kubiak and Co. came aboard, it appeared that we began building our franchise in a way to compete against, and ultimately defeat, the Colts as they were viewed as the biggest obstacle to winning our division. This was especially true on the defensive side of the ball where our focus has been on supposed pass rushing capabilities.

My question is whether we failed to recognize or appreciate the potential rise of the Titans who run smashmouth, physical football on both sides of the ball - something this past Sunday proved we are ill-equipped to battle against.

From this point forward do we have to change our approach to be able to handle that type of football being played by the Titans/Jags (finding a bruising back, run-defending lineman and a more physical secondary)?


I think they have looked to get some more tall defensive backs to deal with what the Jags and Titans can bring at you. Richard Smith when he came to town said he wanted to build a defense that stops the run first. I don't see how this defense is that.

Probably the most fundamental problem that the Texans face, and the one that will be hardest to fix is that there are no great defensive players on the Texans in the primes of their careers. Their best players are young. So it is young guys trying to lead young guys. Dunta should be in the best part of his career, but he is hampered with the knee and the defense he is in. It's really difficult to attract good free agents because most teams can keep their best ones. And it isn't like Richard Smith is a guy that players are killing to play for.

The Texans defense is young and not football smart. They use a lot of energy and effort but a lot of it is wasted. They need a experienced defensive coordinator to come in and show them what they need to do and where they are going to be.

The best thing that Kubiak had for the offense was the ability to show them film of what the Denver offense looked like when things were done right and when things were done wrong. With Smith, they get pictures of rocks in their locker. I don't see how they can have confidence in what he is doing.

Carr Bombed
11-10-2008, 09:37 PM
If Houston hasn't been preparing to stop the run then they're even dumber than I thought......you have to be able to do that against everybody.

The thing that scares me though, is I don't think this zone blocking scheme is a good fit in this division. Our lineman are lighter than more traditional lines and it hurts us when we play against teams like Minn., Baltimore, or ...............the Titans.

Hervoyel
11-10-2008, 09:46 PM
I don't think you build a team to defeat a specific divisional opponent. I think that if you try something like that you more than likely are over complicating the process and setting yourself up for failure. I am reminded of the Oilers trading Dan Pastorini for Kenny Stabler because Stabler knew how to beat the Steelers. Well, turns out that year the Steelers didn't even make the playoffs and the team to beat in the AFC Central was Cleveland. Then we go to the playoffs and face an Oakland team that knows exactly how to beat Kenny Stabler.

Fast forward 28 years or so and we have a Texans team built to try and compete with the pass-happy Colts. Rising up in our division are the Titans who make their living running all over you and the Jaguars who sport Maurice Jones-Drew and Fred Bennett (meant to type Fred Taylor).

I think we're screwed guys. We can't stop the run no matter what we do. Of course we haven't even succeeded in building a defense that can counter the Colts passing game so I think we're talking All-Around Fail Champions of the AFC South.

You build your team to impose your will on your opponents. You want to run? You build a team to run on everybody it meets. You want to sling it around Run-n-Shoot style? You build a team to do that to everybody. You can't dwell too much on what one opponent is about. It's a poor approach to trying to win a season full of games.

TexansFight
11-10-2008, 09:53 PM
I don't think you build a team to defeat a specific divisional opponent. I think that if you try something like that you more than likely are over complicating the process and setting yourself up for failure. I am reminded of the Oilers trading Dan Pastorini for Kenny Stabler because Stabler knew how to beat the Steelers. Well, turns out that year the Steelers didn't even make the playoffs and the team to beat in the AFC Central was Cleveland. Then we go to the playoffs and face an Oakland team that knows exactly how to beat Kenny Stabler.

Fast forward 28 years or so and we have a Texans team built to try and compete with the pass-happy Colts. Rising up in our division are the Titans who make their living running all over you and the Jaguars who sport Maurice Jones-Drew and Fred Bennett.

I think we're screwed guys. We can't stop the run no matter what we do. Of course we haven't even succeeded in building a defense that can counter the Colts passing game so I think we're talking All-Around Fail Champions of the AFC South.

You build your team to impose your will on your opponents. You want to run? You build a team to run on everybody it meets. You want to sling it around Run-n-Shoot style? You build a team to do that to everybody. You can't dwell too much on what one opponent is about. It's a poor approach to trying to win a season full of games.

I agree, I think building your team around one opponent is stupid, especially in this day and age. The fortunes of teams change extremely quick in the NFL of today.

You should build a team taking into consideration what you have. I agree if you want to play smashmouth, develop a scheme and get players to do just that. Impose your will on the other team. The Texans have no identity on either side of the ball so this has never been done.

Wolf
11-10-2008, 09:54 PM
When Capers came aboard, I was estatic ..I remember along the lines of tough defense and run the ball.. To me that is the way to do it, but we seemed to draft toward passing the ball (Carr,AJ,Gaffney) in the early rounds.. we drafted back then what it seemed backasswards to what Capers wanted to do

I remember as a kid being young and dumb and remember the Oilers drafting munchak,steinkuhler, and Mathews .. and was disappointed with that at the time because of (young) and looking for the flashy pick.. well they kept the oilers going for many years

what I hate the most in this denver type offense is that short yardage is hard to come by unless some gimmick is involved.

I am not saying I didn't like the Kubiak signing, but I do hate the light in the pants approach on the offensive line... I like to teams that when it is 3rd and one.. The defense knows what is coming but you can't stop it.

beerlover
11-10-2008, 09:55 PM
Fast forward 28 years or so and we have a Texans team built to try and compete with the pass-happy Colts. Rising up in our division are the Titans who make their living running all over you and the Jaguars who sport Maurice Jones-Drew and Fred Bennett.

geez its worse than I thought Fred (Taylor) Bennett has defected :heh:

houstonhurricane
11-10-2008, 11:01 PM
I remember a great deal of discussion concerning drafting Mario because we need to pressure Peyton Manning and our attempt to pressure Manning - thus, one team may have impacted our draft choice. I found this old article:

Houston believed it needed to pressure Indianapolis Colts quarterback Peyton Manning. The Texans had never beaten division rival Indianapolis, and owner Bob McNair valued an impact pass rusher. Williams, dogged by foot problems in his rookie year, had 47 tackles and 4 sacks; Houston did beat the Colts in December.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/texans/2007-05-24-offseason-report_N.htm

Corrosion
11-10-2008, 11:27 PM
Have our franchise rebuilding efforts focused on the wrong divisional opponent(s)



The answer to that is simple : If they built this team to beat any one specific team they screwed up ..... You dont build to beat any specific team , you build to create the best team possible period ..... Just ask the Houston Rockets who built their team to get past Seattle a decade or so back ....:voodoo:

Norg
11-11-2008, 12:50 AM
i dont see how we model our selfs after a old denver team when that team RAN THE BALL

and whe have not drafted or singed a good RB in Years

anywayz i think the AFC south is a Run happy Divison

everyone knows Jags and Titans can run the ball and there both a tough physical pittsburg ol schhol type of teams with vet like QB's who dont have the best rocket arm but they manage the game

the only odd ball out is the Colts they like to spead the field out with a passing attack

i think i said this before but we are like a Ol Denver/Greenbay/bengals type of team

BigBull17
11-11-2008, 07:15 AM
I think they have looked to get some more tall defensive backs to deal with what the Jags and Titans can bring at you. Richard Smith when he came to town said he wanted to build a defense that stops the run first. I don't see how this defense is that.

Probably the most fundamental problem that the Texans face, and the one that will be hardest to fix is that there are no great defensive players on the Texans in the primes of their careers. Their best players are young. So it is young guys trying to lead young guys. Dunta should be in the best part of his career, but he is hampered with the knee and the defense he is in. It's really difficult to attract good free agents because most teams can keep their best ones. And it isn't like Richard Smith is a guy that players are killing to play for.

The Texans defense is young and not football smart. They use a lot of energy and effort but a lot of it is wasted. They need a experienced defensive coordinator to come in and show them what they need to do and where they are going to be.

The best thing that Kubiak had for the offense was the ability to show them film of what the Denver offense looked like when things were done right and when things were done wrong. With Smith, they get pictures of rocks in their locker. I don't see how they can have confidence in what he is doing.

Well, if you wanted to build a team to stop the run, why in the hell would you go out and draft a 280lb DT? Its little things like this that drive you nuts. We have small LB's and smallish DT's. On a side note, Patrick Willis looks like a beast. Just sayin.

Specnatz
11-11-2008, 10:00 AM
The answer to that is simple : If they built this team to beat any one specific team they screwed up ..... You dont build to beat any specific team , you build to create the best team possible period ..... Just ask the Houston Rockets who built their team to get past Seattle a decade or so back ....:voodoo:

But at the time the Texans could nor pressure any QB and the reason the Coltz were mentioned is because they are a pass oriented team in our division.

texanhead08
11-11-2008, 10:07 AM
Nor could we stop any team run or pass.

Corrosion
11-11-2008, 11:16 AM
But at the time the Texans could nor pressure any QB and the reason the Coltz were mentioned is because they are a pass oriented team in our division.

Yep , they couldnt stop the pass and the Dolts are one team within the division ..... they cant stop the run now and two of the three teams within the division are predominantly running teams .... Hell , they cant stop anything ....

Texans_Chick
11-11-2008, 01:29 PM
I remember a great deal of discussion concerning drafting Mario because we need to pressure Peyton Manning and our attempt to pressure Manning - thus, one team may have impacted our draft choice. I found this old article:

Houston believed it needed to pressure Indianapolis Colts quarterback Peyton Manning. The Texans had never beaten division rival Indianapolis, and owner Bob McNair valued an impact pass rusher. Williams, dogged by foot problems in his rookie year, had 47 tackles and 4 sacks; Houston did beat the Colts in December.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/texans/2007-05-24-offseason-report_N.htm

I think all that Mario to get Manning talk was code for...

Our defense sucks. Our defense has Dunta Robinson and nobody. Our pass rush sucks. We are switching to the 4-3. I need to get the defensive coordinator some players.

So yeah, you want Mario to get Manning, but really what you are saying is we can't stop anyone and we have to beat Manning twice a year?

And truly, though the offense in 2005 was unwatchable, it was the defensive failings that turned that season into a catastrophe. Once all the expansion players got old or hurt, it was a young stupid defense. And still in a lot of ways is a young stupid defense.

powerfuldragon
11-11-2008, 01:34 PM
I think all that Mario to get Manning talk was code for...

Our defense sucks. Our defense has Dunta Robinson and nobody. Our pass rush sucks. We are switching to the 4-3. I need to get the defensive coordinator some players.

i want to say you're giving casserly too much credit, but by most accounts, he's pretty clever.

texanhead08
11-11-2008, 02:41 PM
I know Casserly is an ***** but he knew nothing about the 3-4 defense and depended on Capers for insight on players they were looking at. It was Capers who wanted Babin and we know how that turned out. I wonder if it was Capers who wanted Travis Johnson or was it the scouting dept who agreeded on him.

houstonhurricane
11-11-2008, 04:59 PM
I think all that Mario to get Manning talk was code for...

Our defense sucks. Our defense has Dunta Robinson and nobody. Our pass rush sucks. We are switching to the 4-3. I need to get the defensive coordinator some players.

So yeah, you want Mario to get Manning, but really what you are saying is we can't stop anyone and we have to beat Manning twice a year?

And truly, though the offense in 2005 was unwatchable, it was the defensive failings that turned that season into a catastrophe. Once all the expansion players got old or hurt, it was a young stupid defense. And still in a lot of ways is a young stupid defense.

I don't necessarily disagree; however, Mario was never seen as someone who was going to be an aggressive run-stopper. He is a pure (and solid) pass rusher. It just seems that our game plan on both sides of the ball has been to compete against a more finnesse Colts team rather than the blue collar approach of the Jags/Titans. I wonder where that leaves us as the Colts appear to be slipping and the Titans continue to climb...

Corrosion
11-11-2008, 05:42 PM
I don't necessarily disagree; however, Mario was never seen as someone who was going to be an aggressive run-stopper. He is a pure (and solid) pass rusher. It just seems that our game plan on both sides of the ball has been to compete against a more finnesse Colts team rather than the blue collar approach of the Jags/Titans. I wonder where that leaves us as the Colts appear to be slipping and the Titans continue to climb...

Same place the Texans have been since they started chasing the Dolts .... in the freakin basement. :gun:


Until this team can line up and Run the ball on anyone at any time as well as STOP the run .... they will remain in the basement.