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swisher
01-02-2005, 06:29 PM
sorry if this has already been covered, I didn't see it any where else...

I went to the game today and when Carr came out towards the end of the fourth quarter after being shaken up the crowd cheered when Banks came in. Then when Carr came back in the next play the crowd booed. I don't know if this was audible on tv or radio.

I'm not one to say you shouldn't boo. You paid the money, if the product is bad then that's your choice. But I was a little shocked at this today.

Thoughts?

LiveForTheGame
01-02-2005, 06:33 PM
Houston fans are only happy when they get their way. Carr may have been a little off today but he wasn't bad. I'm definitely biased for Carr, but he is a good quarterback and has potential. Tell me what he did so wrong today? I'll be honest and say I didn't get to see much of the game...but looking at the numbers he had a decent day...what is wrong with the game he played?

jhawktx
01-02-2005, 06:33 PM
I agree. I thought this was very weak on the part of the fans. Carr didn't have his best day but he was also running for his life a lot. The booing on that play was very sad to hear.

LiveForTheGame
01-02-2005, 06:38 PM
He didn't have a bad day either...you wanted him to stop turning the ball over- he didn't do that today, was better than 50%, and had a TD...what's wrong with that? Maybe part of the problem is AJ dropping the deep ball?

the wonger need food
01-02-2005, 06:40 PM
Carr deserved every boo he got today, he was terrible.

He actually showed some desire with that run after getting boo'ed. The Texans need to bring someone in to challenge him for his job next year. Overall he has been very average this year and has regressed the second half of the season.

kbourda
01-02-2005, 06:44 PM
They should have booed the overall effort of the team. Carr is the QB so he is the target. But he is one of 55 other players on that team. So, to put it on his shoulders solely is unfair.

LiveForTheGame
01-02-2005, 06:54 PM
Carr deserved every boo he got today, he was terrible.

He actually showed some desire with that run after getting boo'ed. The Texans need to bring someone in to challenge him for his job next year. Overall he has been very average this year and has regressed the second half of the season.


what did he do that was so bad? give me reasons why he deserved to get booed...

shinerbock_girl
01-02-2005, 06:57 PM
I didn't see the game, only heard on the radio, but it sounded to me with that many sacks, the rest of the O-line should have been boo'd too....Carr got his a** kicked in sacks, so he wasn't alone in losing this game...We need a good back up also to rely on if he has to stay out...I heard Kurt Warner is available and wants to leave NY since he was upset they replaced him with baby Manning......I'm not saying replace Carr, because i still think Carr is an awesome QB, but when he loses his confidence like he did, we need a back up thats as good as Carr when we need him...

the wonger need food
01-02-2005, 06:59 PM
what did he do that was so bad? give me reasons why he deserved to get booed...

Because he is the leader of the offense and that unit was badly managed on the field. 114 passing yards against the worst team in the NFL deserves to be boo'ed. Carr was completely ineffective and Banks should have been in the game.

LiveForTheGame
01-02-2005, 07:02 PM
I understand that, but tell me who to throw to deep down the field? Also, isn't it their offense to go with the short passes?

Kurt Warner doesn't want to be backup so I don't think he'd come to Houston. He wants to start...

shinerbock_girl
01-02-2005, 07:08 PM
Because he is the leader of the offense and that unit was badly managed on the field. 114 passing yards against the worst team in the NFL deserves to be boo'ed. Carr was completely ineffective and Banks should have been in the game.

Even if Banks was in the game, i don't think the O-line could have protected him any better, he plays simular to Carr...But if you get a QB who can play against a team like the Browns that goes AFTER the QB , i'd say get a back up like K Warner who can be very effective from getting out of the pocket and avoiding sacks...

Harry Biped
01-02-2005, 07:10 PM
In the long run the booing will be good for him. A little humility never hurt anyone, least of which an over-hyped 3rd year QB. I think that Carr has plenty of potential, but we need to draft another good young QB to give us depth at that position and to give him some competition as well. When he realizes what it takes to get it done, I think he'll come around. Coaching just hasn't been good enough to get him there yet. Not to mention the fact that the O-line has more holes than a spaghetti strainer.

the wonger need food
01-02-2005, 07:11 PM
But if you get a QB who can play against a team like the Browns that goes AFTER the QB , i'd say get a back up like K Warner who can be very effective from getting out of the pocket and avoiding sacks...

They rushed 4 all day with very few blitzes and Carr was still a deer in the headlights.

shinerbock_girl
01-02-2005, 07:12 PM
I understand that, but tell me who to throw to deep down the field? Also, isn't it their offense to go with the short passes?

Kurt Warner doesn't want to be backup so I don't think he'd come to Houston. He wants to start...

I think the Giants screwed up taking him out for Manning, i've seen him throw some awesome deep throws when he has good receivers to throw to, which the Giants didn't...I'm only saying Banks plays very simular to Carr so if he did finish the game, i still think he would have then taken the sacks just the same..

LiveForTheGame
01-02-2005, 07:12 PM
In the long run the booing will be good for him. A little humility never hurt anyone, least of which an over-hyped 3rd year QB. I think that Carr has plenty of potential, but we need to draft another good young QB to give us depth at that position and to give him some competition as well. When he realizes what it takes to get it done, I think he'll come around. Coaching just hasn't been good enough to get him there yet. Not to mention the fact that the O-line has more holes than a spaghetti strainer.

That's a very good point, and I agree. He'll go into the offense wanting to improve and make the fans proud so he doesn't get booed again...it is also good for the whole team.

JustBonee
01-02-2005, 07:15 PM
sorry if this has already been covered, I didn't see it any where else...
I went to the game today and when Carr came out towards the end of the fourth quarter after being shaken up the crowd cheered when Banks came in. Then when Carr came back in the next play the crowd booed. I don't know if this was audible on tv or radio.
I'm not one to say you shouldn't boo. You paid the money, if the product is bad then that's your choice. But I was a little shocked at this today.
Thoughts?

I find it a little shocking too, but only because I haven't seen this by Houston fans before ...
it happens all the time elsewhere.
For what it's worth, I thought Banks should have been allowed to finish up the game at that point. What would it have hurt? .. give him some playing time, shake some of the rust off.. It's not like they were in trouble of losing a big lead or anything. He may have even put some points on the board.

shinerbock_girl
01-02-2005, 07:19 PM
That's a very good point, and I agree. He'll go into the offense wanting to improve and make the fans proud so he doesn't get booed again...it is also good for the whole team.

Very excellent point...Carr has been too cozy in his position with the Texans knowing how much he is needed, alittle competition would do him good...I feel if this team doesn't make some changes, they will only have a repeat of this year...I think we all agree and so do the analyst that they have NOOO consistency...Win against a good team one week, then lose to a bad one the next...Thats why they are harldy picked as winners because you never know which team will show up....Like i said, i think Carr is awesome, but they need to get their act together and PROTECT him consistently, not allow his fans to watch him get his A** kicked when the O-line slacks off...

shinerbock_girl
01-02-2005, 07:24 PM
Thats BS. DC was not the whole reason the offense struggled today. Gaffney dropped a ball that he should have caught on a 3rd down play to keep a drive going. The line needs to protect him better......


Now I will say maybe he can try to get rid of the ball quicker, but was the recievers open? Can't tell you that. But he didn't deserve to get boo'ed much less a cheer for Banks, that was weak.

I have to admit, as angry as i was also, whats the point of crushing the guys spirit from his fans...He also was down and he could have been hurt, and they were BOOing him...And look what he did when he came back in, ran down the field himself taking a tackle to get his respect back from the fans and get the first down...No this game was not all on him, the team as a whole screwed up royaly with stupid mistakes...But Carr did lose his confidence so that was my point of just taking him out of the game, at least for a while....

gwallaia
01-02-2005, 07:38 PM
If anyone needed booing, it was the offensive line.

aj.
01-02-2005, 07:38 PM
Our o-line is a terrible pass blocking group. The Browns used the same exact defensive sets that the Jets, Packers and Colts used against us. They rush 4 and keep 7 back and our guys can't handle it. It's not all the o-line's fault though. Has Carr ever stepped up in the pocket? There were numerous times when a simple straight ahead shuffle would have given him an extra second or two with the whole field in front of him instead of rolling into a shrinking sideline. With the wide splits being used by the Browns DEs, Carr constantly rolled straight into pressure (the LDE usually) when his first read wasn't open and protection broke down. It's not usually a good thing when your RB's have more receptions than your WR corps.

As far as booing Carr, I thought it was pretty tacky, especially since he had just left the field after getting crushed on the sack. I've never been an advocate of booing the home team. It's more destructive than constructive in my opinion. I happen to believe that the players already understand that they are playing like **** and the booing just demoralizes and make them press even more. But, booing is often the only way for fans to communicate their displeasure and they will continue to do it whether some like it or not. What made it notable is that most of the "entertain me" crowd had already left and it was mostly die-hards in the stadium at the time. Houston fans -- they love you when you do good and they hate you when you do bad.

Harry Biped
01-02-2005, 07:40 PM
Booing Carr did not hurt him one bit. He gets paid millions of dollars to play a game. His skin should be thick enough to deal with it for that kind of money. Not to mention the fact that he is supposed to be the leader of the team. If he is not mature enough to take it, then we have much bigger problems than how he performed in one game. The fans have only so many ways to express themselves and after three disappointing seasons we are all getting more than a little frustrated. Remember the fans paid to be there, so they have every right to vent a little bit.

gwallaia
01-02-2005, 07:42 PM
Good points aj. In addition to the pathetic pass blocking by the Texans so called offesnive line, when Carr was running for his life, the receivers just stood there and watched. I watched Jabar Gaffney on a couple of plays just quit and stand therewhile Carr was scrambling. The receivers need to run back to the QB and help him out a bit.

But the offensive line is most to blame.

the wonger need food
01-02-2005, 07:43 PM
Houston fans -- they love you when you do good and they hate you when you do bad.

That's the way it is everywhere.

Dubya
01-02-2005, 07:46 PM
But the offensive line is most to blame.

This is a problem everywhere. When a team does poorly, the QB always gets blamed for "not being good enough." But if the QB is spending 75% of the game or more on his back or scrambling to get out of bounds, how can you expect him to be effective? I don't have a problem with the fans booing on bad playcalling or all-around lack of effort. But to boo the quarterback because the O-Line can't protect him? That's punishing the wrong man.

cmiller
01-02-2005, 07:53 PM
Texans Gal you are right. The fans pay the bills!!! They have a right to boo , hiss, yell, chant, etc.. This is an entertainment form not nuclear science or lab class. The protocol is to yell and scream---when it's good and when it's bad!!! Let's be Texan fans who , like Philly and others, show heart and emotion. And that means "booing" when a bum call is made, or a player like Carr consistently messes up. I played the game for years...believe me---booing will motivate!! It's like my coach at Chicago used to say, "There's nothing like the face of the gallows to motivate one's self". TRUE!!!!!!

whotex8
01-02-2005, 07:56 PM
This was the only game I was not able to go to this season. I gave up my tickets this morning.... didn't feel so hot, and slept through most of the game on and off. :thud: (kinda like our O-line).
Dont think DC deserves to be booed by our fans. He is not the entire team. Our offense showed up for about 8 or 9 games this season. Granted, DC has had his off days but even at his best....he can't do it alone, the offense has to be there for him. There's no excuse for so many sacks, you gotta protect the QB. :shocked

I agree with some previous posts...booing Carr or our own team in our own stadium doens't happen much. I don't think we should do it at all. Houston fans have a heck of alot more class than that. But I do understand the frustration.
Let's leave the booing to Non-Texans fans!
Darn, speaking of Non-Texans fans...those Jag-asses won the game.
(Here they come.........) :neener:

Harry Biped
01-02-2005, 07:56 PM
Not to deflect blame from the O-line, because they certainly deserve it, but Carr is equally responsible for many of his sacks. His technique is not good at this point. He doesn't move his feet in the pocket and doesn't keep his head on a swivel, and any 8th grade football coach worth his salt will tell you that's how you get sacked. It's also a huge part of why he is off balance when he throws so many of his passes. He along with the rest of the team earned their boos today. It doesn't mean he won't get better. It just means that the fans think that its time for him to getter better. As of about 3:00 pm today, the honeymoon officially ended. Now it's time for Carr to prove himself next season.

aj.
01-02-2005, 07:58 PM
Carr has responsibility in this (in terms of how he reacts to the pressure). It's not all on the OL. That's my point - along with it being fairly lame to boo your own QB after he gets flattened by a 300 pounder. Why not cheer the injury next time? Same thing.

shinerbock_girl
01-02-2005, 08:00 PM
This is a problem everywhere. When a team does poorly, the QB always gets blamed for "not being good enough." But if the QB is spending 75% of the game or more on his back or scrambling to get out of bounds, how can you expect him to be effective? I don't have a problem with the fans booing on bad playcalling or all-around lack of effort. But to boo the quarterback because the O-Line can't protect him? That's punishing the wrong man.

PERFECTLY said. I said it before, your QB is only as good as your o-line protecting him....What does that say for us???? Carr has been getting nailed left and right and gets right back up ready to play again...I have to say one thing about him, he is NOOO quitter...I admire that....Getting back into that game took balls knowing your hated at that moment by your fans,.....He needs protection to be effective...Not every QB is a Vick or MaCab, whos best at scrambling out of the pocket....

cmiller
01-02-2005, 08:00 PM
...A coach once said to me that there is NOTHING more motivating and refocusing than being reminded that one is staring down the halls of the gallows. So go ahead and Boo and show emotion, fans!!! Take it from a former player, negative responses are very, very motivating!!!! Especially when you are facing the gallows and your career is on the line which is what makes winners re focus. It's accountability . Do you think the best coaches out there aren't motivated by the fear of being fired????? Or the best players by being cut or benched?????
So, please fans, show emotion like Philly and others.

Harry Biped
01-02-2005, 08:00 PM
This was the only game I was not able to go to this season. I gave up my tickets this morning.... didn't feel so hot, and slept through most of the game on and off. :thud: (kinda like our O-line).
Dont think DC deserves to be booed by our fans. He is not the entire team. Our offense showed up for about 8 or 9 games this season. Granted, DC has had his off days but even at his best....he can't do it alone, the offense has to be there for him. There's no excuse for so many sacks, you gotta protect the QB. :shocked

I agree with some previous posts...booing Carr or our own team in our own stadium doens't happen much. I don't think we should do it at all. Houston fans have a heck of alot more class than that. But I do understand the frustration.
Let's leave the booing to Non-Texans fans!
Darn, speaking of Non-Texans fans...those Jag-asses won the game.
(Here they come.........) :neener:
Booing your team does not make you a bad fan. It means that you care and choose to express your displeasure in a vocal way. That never hurt anything.

fresno8
01-02-2005, 08:02 PM
When you only need 4 guys to cream the quaterback and have 7 to cover 3-4 recieving options it will always be hard to pass. Carr does make some bad decisions but evryone does.

shinerbock_girl
01-02-2005, 08:03 PM
Booing your team does not make you a bad fan. It means that you care and choose to express your displeasure in a vocal way. That never hurt anything.

But the point i think most were making was that Carr was down, could have been seriously hurt with cracked ribs, bruised sternum?? To me, that was not a good time to express your feelings to your own hurt QB...

Harry Biped
01-02-2005, 08:08 PM
But the point i think most were making was that Carr was down, could have been seriously hurt with cracked ribs, bruised sternum?? To me, that was not a good time to express your feelings to your own hurt QB...
Can't disagree with that, but I don't think that the fans realized exactly what was going on at that point. All in all, it didn't hurt Carr or the rest of the team to be booed and those who booed, more than likely did so out of frustration in the heat of the moment, not malice. There are far too many #8 jersey floating around town to think that it was malicious.

Texan Gal 312
01-02-2005, 08:10 PM
I think the Giants screwed up taking him (Warner)out for Manning, i've seen him throw some awesome deep throws when he has good receivers to throw to, which the Giants didn't...I'm only saying Banks plays very simular to Carr so if he did finish the game, i still think he would have then taken the sacks just the same..


Warner was benched because in the Giants opinion he was holding the ball too long and taking too many sacks. He would never get a pass off here.

whotex8
01-02-2005, 08:14 PM
Exactly my point Txngal8.

Shhh! Don't tell anyone.... ;)
I was booing at home before I realized DC was hurt.

shinerbock_girl
01-02-2005, 08:17 PM
Warner was benched because in the Giants opinion he was holding the ball too long and taking too many sacks. He would never get a pass off here.

But watching Baby Manning play doesn't look much better to me, other then hes worse on throwing then Warner...I still think they jumped the gun...Baby's already taken some pretty good hits by Dallas..lol...

TexanBacker93
01-02-2005, 08:30 PM
...A coach once said to me that there is NOTHING more motivating and refocusing than being reminded that one is staring down the halls of the gallows. So go ahead and Boo and show emotion, fans!!! Take it from a former player, negative responses are very, very motivating!!!! Especially when you are facing the gallows and your career is on the line which is what makes winners re focus. It's accountability . Do you think the best coaches out there aren't motivated by the fear of being fired????? Or the best players by being cut or benched?????
So, please fans, show emotion like Philly and others.

Like Philly??

How many SuperBowl wins do the Eagles have?
How many World Series Championships do the Phillies have?
How many NBA titles do the Sixers have?

I fail to find the correlation between fans booing or cheering and a team winning a championship.

Lakers fans have long been recognized as nothing but glamour hounds that care more about looking good than cheering for their team. They seem to have had some recent success.

Believe me, the players on the field aren't worried because fans are booing.

thegr8fan
01-02-2005, 08:41 PM
David Carr (on getting booed) ďIíd boo, too. From what we were putting on the field today, I was booing in the huddle. It was embarrassing. As the quarterback of the football team, that might lie on my shoulders, but thatís fine. What Iím more concerned about is fixing things inside the organization. I know I can speak for all the guys on my team that they put out as much effort as any team Iíve been around. We have to fix things in here first. The outside stuff is going to take care of itself. But we didnít go out and do anything deserving of any praise.Ē

seems like even Carr realized that this game deserved a "Boo" or two.

aj.
01-02-2005, 08:43 PM
Speaking of quotes, read Billy Miller's quotes further down the page..

Then there's this gem by Steve McKinney:

(On if David Carr had an unusual amount of pressure on him today) ďNo, I know some guys were getting beat, but itís going to happen like that. I donít think that it was unusual.Ē

powda
01-02-2005, 08:58 PM
and dont think free agents dont pay attention to how critical the home crowd is (or the media).

i'd imagine it might have some small bearing on a decission in limbo.

aj.
01-02-2005, 09:01 PM
No one would ever want to play in New York, Philly or New England ever again if that was a major factor.

powda
01-02-2005, 09:05 PM
you only hear about the ones that signed. not the reasons of those who dont.

shinerbock_girl
01-02-2005, 09:14 PM
Speaking of quotes, read Billy Miller's quotes further down the page..

Then there's this gem by Steve McKinney:

(On if David Carr had an unusual amount of pressure on him today) ďNo, I know some guys were getting beat, but itís going to happen like that. I donít think that it was unusual.Ē

OK, when these guys think they did nothing wrong AND did well protecting their QB, then "HOUSTON WE GOT A PROBLEM".....HELLOOOOOO

edo783
01-02-2005, 09:17 PM
Figures McKinny wouldn't see a problem, he hasn't looked in the mirror yet.

wags
01-02-2005, 09:18 PM
Then there's this gem by Steve McKinney:

(On if David Carr had an unusual amount of pressure on him today) ďNo, I know some guys were getting beat, but itís going to happen like that. I donít think that it was unusual.Ē

:shocked

:bag:

Steve McKinney :slap:

beerlover
01-02-2005, 09:19 PM
I totally concur with aj, Carr forced alot of his own misfortune especially on the ends, instead of using his blockers as shields he turned them into plows & was constantly running to make a play & on 3rd long. That combined with the lack of pocket presence where simply stepping up in the pocket could help his guards recover lean & angle. I guess you could say Carr was mathematicaly challenged & failed his test. I'm not touching the paint incident :thud:

concerning booing, I don't like it & doubt if I where at the game would have done it, I much prefeer booing the officials even though today they called a good game. Guess the honeymoon is over for this expansion franchise, the reality of winning next year is apparent that will be the only way to get rid of the boo birds :mad:

bigfan77801
01-02-2005, 09:23 PM
seems like even Carr realized that this game deserved a "Boo" or two.

Does the above quote seem to suggest to anyone else that maybe DC is getting a little tired of the problems with the Oline? Or is it an indication that something else is going on?

thegr8fan
01-02-2005, 09:32 PM
I was thinking the same thing bigfan, after reading it a second time. It does seem to be one of those "read between the lines" kind of comment. Especially the We have to fix things in here first. The outside stuff is going to take care of itself. line. Makes you wonder what kind of 'internal' stuff they need to fix doesn't it? :hmmm:

One thing I wish Carr himself would fix is the lack of 'Pocket Awareness' that he has exibited lately. Step up into the pocket and quite running like a jack rabbit out of it. Course with a Center that thinks that 6 sacks a game and multiple 'fight or flight' scenarios exibited by Carr today with the Browns pass rush is 'normal' it is easy to understand how Carr could be very nervous with this O-line.

Personally I don't support boo-ing your own team. But I can see the other side of this argument also and understand the fans desire to express their displeasure. I won't do it myself though. As exibited by Carr's quote, the team already knew how bad they played. The don't need their own fans to 'critique' it in such a vocal way as they did today, IMHO.

the wonger need food
01-02-2005, 09:38 PM
Interesting quote by Carr. It's probably an offense vs. defense scenerio where one unit thinks the other isn't holding up its end of the bargain. But it could be that the players are not sold on the Domball system. Either way, I hope we see quite a few changes this offseason.

Vinny
01-02-2005, 09:41 PM
I find it a little shocking too, but only because I haven't seen this by Houston fans before ...
it happens all the time elsewhere.I haven't read the whole thread yet but I remember Dan Pastorini calling the Houston fans fickle when the same thing happened to him but in a bigger way early in his career. Sports fans in general are not a patient group. This isn't a new thing for Houston, just more of a snapshot at fan reaction in general I think as a whole. Fans want to win, and win now....and they are reactionary and vocal. Always have been like that I think.

OzzO
01-02-2005, 10:04 PM
Ah, kudos to starting this thread as this was one thing (well, among many) that stood out in this game.

Interesting quote from McKinney that he knows some guys were getting beat - he must've had plenty of time to watch his fellow linemen get beat after his rusher already passed him by.

I'm not sure if it's a different style, but interesting that the one play Banks was in he did a 3 step drop then stepped up into the pocket. Carr's style this game seemed to be more a 5 step drop then head further back and to the side. Banks didn't get a rush up the middle, where Carr seemed to always get the inside rush. :hmmm:

As for those that booed Carr coming back in.. y'all suck. Plain and simple. With little protection from the line, being sacked numerous times in your 3 nfl years, your team (coaches or players) unable to figure a cover 2, and about 1500 + pounds just waiting to come in and introduce you to the turf each play... I think you'd have some happy feet as well. As others noted above - you wanna boo.. aim it towards the O-line.

What to get in the offseason? A center, some TE's and a friggin pass rush on defense. Eveything else seems to be a good foundation.

Also, I'd like the TEXANS to be the underdogs in every game next season and EARN that "respect" they are searching for.. seems like they need to gain that back from the fans as well. No more 10 point favorites, thank you.

TexansFan#80
01-02-2005, 10:16 PM
IMO, I think were booing Carr for some decisions he was making, but I also think the fans were getting frustrated. I mean this is Cleveland. We should have wiped the turf with these guys. I think everyone was thinking this game was a walk in the park for the Texans, then they played. I know I was very frustrated at the Texans passing game. DD should've had 200 yards rushing. We should have run the ball more.

Txnpride
01-02-2005, 10:33 PM
I was in sec 140 row x I also was shocked to hear the boos coming from our crowd.The Q.B and Running back are going to be as good as the O-Line protects them.Obviously the O-line took a day off.......bad time to take a day off!!!!!!!!!!!

rdbrem
01-02-2005, 10:59 PM
:soapbox:
I don't care if the fans paid for their tickets or not. If you know the guys have given up, and are just laying down, then they deserve to be booed. But paying for tickets doesn't give anyone a RIGHT to boo somebody who's giving it what they've got.

I felt like there was a ton of 'leakage' of the o-line. I'm not excited about the play calling. I think they put too much emphasis on running DD, passing to DD. I think the defense seemed to wait until they were in the red zone before they got any fire in their bellies. The special teams blocking was not real good. (I'm used to watching the Chiefs, who know how to block for special teams). It was an ugly game to watch.

My guess is, if you'd replaced the worst two linemen with guys a lot better, they would have been cheering Carr off the field. And we would have won.

To be honest, I think most people who boo are too stupid to understand the game. The IQ of 'fans' who boo shows up in the last too letters, 00.

Yeah, I'm ticked... :hairpull: :sbad:

Cheroqui
01-02-2005, 11:28 PM
I don't think that's right. Carr needs time to throw the ball or make decisions. If anything the crowd should boo the O-line, which collapses too often for him to do anything. That might be the reason we stall out on points and are hard pressed for points every game. Look how long it took us to get 21 against the Jaggyuars last week, I mean damn... we had 14 for like 3 quarters. The D did well with a turnover pretty much every game but run-sopping is real soft and needs to tighen up.

Grid
01-02-2005, 11:52 PM
I was proud of the fans for booing :P. The Texans deserved to be booed. They know they have great fans, and they need to realize that they REALLY let down the fans that have been supporting them so vehemently for the last 3 years.

I hope they were really freakin ashamed.

Youngstown Colt
01-03-2005, 02:13 AM
This exact thing happened with the browns and couch. Just be happy the media isn't covering it like they did the Couch thing. I was a bit disapointed to hear that today, and I got a smile on my face when the boos turned to cheers when David had that big run.

This man played his heart out for you and it's pretty sick that he got booed (just like it was with timmy) I know you guys weren't the ones booing, but I just hated to hear that. I have so much respect for Dave, I just wish some of your fans did too.

disaacks3
01-03-2005, 03:01 AM
I didn't agree with booing Carr after the sack induced injury (and his subsequent return). I do wish he'd make even a token atempt to look downfield while scrambling though. On more than one occasion, Carr took off for the sideline, never even turned his head upfield, and never once looked to see if a receiver had come open. This is where a big difference lies between Carr and the elite class of Favre, Culpepper, McNabb, Manning, (and even Roethlisburger) etc. - What do you do when it all starts breaking down....give up, or try to create?
I had little issue with booing the offense & coaching IN GENERAL today though...they both stunk! Let's not kid ourselves here, this was the 9-consecutive-loss Browns we're talking about.

I had the misfortune of expecting a 10+ point win today (and even MORE unfortunately predicting such to a.j. and gr8 before today's game). I still believe that's what should have happened.

Texan Gal 312
01-03-2005, 05:57 AM
[QUOTE=A4toZ]
I'm not sure if it's a different style, but interesting that the one play Banks was in he did a 3 step drop then stepped up into the pocket. Carr's style this game seemed to be more a 5 step drop then head further back and to the side. Banks didn't get a rush up the middle, where Carr seemed to always get the inside rush. :hmmm:

.

QUOTE]
Banks dumped it off to Davis for 5 yards. DD turned it into a 17 yard gain.
Dumping off to Davis is one of the biggest complaints on this board.

aj.
01-03-2005, 07:08 AM
I think were booing Carr for some decisions he was making, but I also think the fans were getting frustrated. The boos were unmistakeably and vehemently directed at Carr (the player) as he walked back on the field to try and salvage what he could from the disaster. The boos weren't directed at a failed play or a play call. They were directed at him. He's part of a bigger issue with the offense but he will naturally catch all the flak because he is the QB and a signature player of the franchise. People can boo all they want, but "great" fans don't kick their own when they're down in my opinion. But at least it shows they care, I guess.

TexanAlmighty
01-03-2005, 08:00 AM
All I have to say after watching the tape of the game, the oline protected Carr on the first scoring drive and lo and behold he completed passes after that they really didn't give him time to throw. It's hard to complete passes when you don't have time to throw. Anyone who thinks this is on David Carr is just wrong and ignorant. Booing Carr is pathetic, the oline should be bood!!!!!!!! David has my respect the way he handled the situation. Pastorini and Moon have been bood in this town only to have the same people cheer for them later in their careers. Carr will be a great QB, just wait and see! Next year if we improve th line he will show you!

MichaelMC
01-03-2005, 08:09 AM
If we had a more energized coach, he would have lined all of the o-line players up in the locker room at the half and told them all as it stands righ now you are all fired as of tonight, have a great second half. :thud:

OzzO
01-03-2005, 08:10 AM
....Banks dumped it off to Davis for 5 yards. DD turned it into a 17 yard gain.
Dumping off to Davis is one of the biggest complaints on this board.

Yeah, I'm not so much saying who was passed to - I'm more talking about the 3 step drop and step up vs. the 5 step drop and head to the side. Though, it's hard to step up when your have a turnstyle and revolving door in front of you.

MichaelMC - interesting you brought that up... reminds me of what was seen on the sideline... I didn't see any kind of discussion among the offensive players till just before the last series when they huddled up on the sideline with the coach talking to them. Other than that, Carr was sitting on the table, some of the O-line was on one bench, McKinney siting by the kickers, recievers sitting on another bench... Is that something typical? (General question not, just for Mike.)

NeViKaN
01-03-2005, 09:53 AM
I was at the game. Carr had no business being booíd. The line was horrible. I usually dislike the play calling but how can you bash that. When you canít even take a 1 Ĺ step drop then the line is the only unit deserving of the boos.

the wonger need food
01-03-2005, 09:57 AM
Yes, the offensive line stinks, but Carr has no pocket presence and could have avoided a lot of the sacks yesterday. I saw some highlights of the game from a sky-cam angle behind the line of scrimmage. On all 4 he could have stepped up in the pocket but chose to scramble right.

The guy gets rattled too easily for some reason. He is just not ready to be a great QB, plain and simple.

Wolf
01-03-2005, 10:00 AM
the "trust" factor shows between Carr and the OL.. Carr has none (and rightfully so) with his OL..so he runs instead of stepping up around "his" guys

Demon
01-03-2005, 10:10 AM
My take: the fans who stayed probably had been drinking, very disappointed and the only way to show that is to boo whomever. The QB is always the main focus and thus David was the target. Houston worships this young man and I don't see any long-term damage done here. Next season, say we win 9 and get a wild card, no one will even remember this flop of a game. Let' stay focused: Go Texans! Our team! No. 1 now and forever :monkey:

David gives it his all - but gets sacked SIX times. OL - heal thyself!

the wonger need food
01-03-2005, 10:15 AM
David gives it his all - but gets sacked SIX times. OL - heal thyself!

I don't doubt his effort, but most of the sacks were his fault. He played very poorly yesterday.

big sarge
01-03-2005, 10:23 AM
You know, I've been a fan of the Oilers/Texans for all the heartbreaking years, and as manny 4-12 and 3-13 seasons I have never booed my team. Houston fans are really bad loosers, and you would think that we should know how to loose gracefully. The fans in Houston seem to do what the media does. When the team does something good, it's always the Texans this the Texans that, but let them loose and it's Carr or the O-line, or the special teams, or the water boy spiked the gatorade cause he is from Jacksonville. No thats the wrong answer. It was a team game, so it's a team loss. The only bright spot was DD. I have this saying I made up. It goes like this: If your riding in a horse and carriage and the wheel breaks are you gonna shoot the horse? Well to many Houston fans are ready to shoot the horse, just ask Warren Moon he was booed for several years, and given death threats, but let him hit his wife and all of a sudden Houston embraces him. Now I loved Moon, but isn't that a little backwards? Just ranting at rants I guess!

God!
Family!
Country!
Texans!

NeViKaN
01-03-2005, 10:27 AM
[QUOTE=the wonger need food]Carr has no pocket presence and could have avoided a lot of the sacks yesterday. I saw some highlights of the game from a sky-cam angle behind the line of scrimmage. On all 4 he could have stepped up in the pocket but chose to scramble right.
QUOTE]

Ok lets think...........ok do you remember the play that he got hurt on.....yea the one he stepped up in the pocket and got drilled. seems running is the best thing. now I have noticed since the chicago game that he always moves right? strange?

the wonger need food
01-03-2005, 10:31 AM
Ok lets think...........ok do you remember the play that he got hurt on.....yea the one he stepped up in the pocket and got drilled. seems running is the best thing. now I have noticed since the chicago game that he always moves right? strange?

The last sack was the exception.

Demon
01-03-2005, 11:12 AM
I don't doubt his effort, but most of the sacks were his fault. He played very poorly yesterday.

Yes. David had a bad day. Thank goodness he has had marvelous days as well. Again, this is a blip on the big radar screen. We are disappointed, but next year, and we will play the fourth year in the NFL, good things are going to happen. 4 wins 5 wins 7 wins ... 9 or 10 next year? I'm an eternal optimist, I think. :hmmm:

edo783
01-03-2005, 11:17 AM
Yes, the offensive line stinks, but Carr has no pocket presence and could have avoided a lot of the sacks yesterday. I saw some highlights of the game from a sky-cam angle behind the line of scrimmage. On all 4 he could have stepped up in the pocket but chose to scramble right.

The guy gets rattled too easily for some reason. He is just not ready to be a great QB, plain and simple.


So, you seem to have a boner for Carr, but just exactly how would you solve the problems of the team?

pek281
01-03-2005, 11:29 AM
Pretty good thread.

For the most part, Houston fans are regarded as being classy and who are known for their football knowledge. IMO, those boos showed the complete opposite. Sure the fans are frustrated and caught up in the heat of the moment, and they've been drinking, but any knowledgeable fan understands it's the O-line that needs to get the boos.

SheTexan
01-03-2005, 12:20 PM
I was disappointed with the booing also! NFL fans in general are very brutal! Our expectations were very high yesterday, and Capers laid a bomb on us from the very beginning. Midfield, 4-1, against a crappy Brown's team, and he punts. I could just feel the mood change! Everyone was so upbeat, excited, optimistic, and then BAM he throws another one of his conservative calls at us. I could just sense the anger and frustration from so many of the fans after that call. I believe everyone was just hoping our coaching staff would let the entire team play for the fans, after all, it was fan appreciation day. I don't know what they were trying to prove, the coaches, but, all they did was tick everyone off just a little more. We had nothing to lose by allowing David an opportunity to open up his game, throw some long balls, try some new stuff, anything to make the game exciting. All we got was another crappy called game! TWO completed passes to a pro-bowler! That stinks!! If you want to BOOOOOOO anyone, boo the coaches, not David Carr. I'm not saying he doesn't deserve criticism, when criticism is due, but, he didn't deserve it yesterday. JMO!

Texan Gal 312
01-03-2005, 12:24 PM
allowing David an opportunity to open up his game, throw some long balls,

:rofl:

What ? Did you want to see David killed ?

Yankee_In_TX
01-03-2005, 01:13 PM
Without reading all this- I think it's your right to boo. But why boo Carr? Not like it was his fault?!?!?!

If you're gonna' boo, boo the play calling, pass protection, etc, etc.

My http://smiley.onegreatguy.net/2cents.gif

NeViKaN
01-03-2005, 01:18 PM
The last sack was the exception.

Not exactly. He got flushed from the inside by crossing stunts or and outside to inside move by the right end. I guess that is why I agreed that he should have moved to the left. But either way the presure came from the inside much of the time.

Ibar_Harry
01-03-2005, 01:31 PM
The only people who should be booed on this ball club is the coaches....................... They are bad and that's all there is to it. This ball club is going nowhere until they leave. Qb gets sacked more than any other in the league again this season............................. What do you expect?

wags
01-03-2005, 02:33 PM
i'd say get a back up like K Warner who can be very effective from getting out of the pocket and avoiding sacks...

Kurt Warner effective at avoiding sacks. :shocked

shinerbock_girl
01-03-2005, 02:39 PM
Kurt Warner effective at avoiding sacks. :shocked

Well maybe i haven't watched all of his games, only thought the ones i seen he played well...He was just an example, i think we need a backup QB who might be good at avoiding sacks if they are not going to improve the o-line...

phan1
01-03-2005, 03:25 PM
It definitely wasn't all Carr's fault. Moses' fumble was costly. Our recievers definitely had an off day with a couple of drops. And you all know the Oline situation.

I am definitely getting worried about Carr though. One of the criticisms Carr has always got was that his pocket presence wasn't good enough. Well, you can't improve your pocket presence when its collapsing around you every play. I just really hope he doesn't shell up and start regressing. He's not going to improve if he starts looking at the pass rush and getting scared every play. For Carr's sake, we really need to get him some protection or else he's going to start slipping. There are just too many times when he's looking to run right when the pocket starts falling. He needs to step up, stick it in there, and complete a pass. He really needs to start making quicker decisions and start getting rid of the ball faster.

One of the things that I was worried about was how he wasn't able to complete a lot of his play-action plays. Since that is pretty much the only time he gets really good protection, he should be able to complete a pass, but he just runs out of bounce instead. He's got to find someone open on the play-action.

In the end, Carr needs to get some protection because his confidence is really starting to sink.

the wonger need food
01-03-2005, 03:54 PM
So, you seem to have a boner for Carr, but just exactly how would you solve the problems of the team?

I don't dislike Carr, but I'm not going to apologize for him like a lot of people on this board constantly do. I would like to see him challenged for his job next year.

texan279
01-03-2005, 03:57 PM
And who will challenge him for the job?

texan279
01-03-2005, 04:00 PM
i'd say get a back up like K Warner who can be very effective from getting out of the pocket and avoiding sacks...

One of the reasons Warner lost his starting job was because he held onto the ball too long and got sacked an average of like 6 or 7 times a game.

the wonger need food
01-03-2005, 04:01 PM
And who will challenge him for the job?

Who cares. Bring in a veteran or someone that has started and can be a decent backup when/if Carr wins the job. Just make the point that he is not untouchable and he will be forced to improve. Look what it did for Brees this year.

texan279
01-03-2005, 04:05 PM
No thanks, I'll give the front office this offseason to improve our O line and give Carr another year.

TEXANS84
01-03-2005, 04:10 PM
I look at it this way: If I want to boo...I paid the price for the ticket..so I can boo all I want.
Did I boo? No.
Did I want to boo? At the o-line, yes.

It is apparent that the o-line (left side) is the problem. Carr seems like a beaten puppy and when that alarm clock goes off in his head (3 seconds)..it seems like chaos.

Give the guy more time in the pocket, and I assure you he'll become a winning quarterback.

TexansFan#80
01-03-2005, 04:12 PM
Who cares. Bring in a veteran or someone that has started and can be a decent backup when/if Carr wins the job. Just make the point that he is not untouchable and he will be forced to improve. Look what it did for Brees this year.


Do you think the booing helped Carr? IMO I do. The run he made after being brought back in the game, he could have easily ran out of bounds. I think if he hadn't gotten booed, he would have. Instead he cut it in and gain an extra 5-7 yards. That just shows determination.

the wonger need food
01-03-2005, 04:14 PM
Do you think the booing helped Carr?.

Absolutely.

nflnutswife
01-03-2005, 04:43 PM
Texan279. . . Your avatar is awesome! Good job :rofl:

shinerbock_girl
01-03-2005, 04:51 PM
Texan279. . . Your avatar is awesome! Good job :rofl:

LOL....Yeah it is pretty awesome isn't it??...LOL...We need to make a banner of it and place it at the top of the message board as our slogan...lol

TexansJunkE
01-03-2005, 05:26 PM
I was also shocked about the Boo's. I think Carr is a good up and coming Quarterback that half the league would snatch up in a heart beat. I think the Boo's should have been toward that weak O-Line! We need to stop putting replacements in as starters and start building the O-Line. I strongly believe that every good team is built around great O and D lines. (Cowgirls in the 90's) Until we do this we will be below average.