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View Full Version : Is it time for wholesale changes to the Texans?


gtexan02
11-10-2008, 09:30 AM
With the exception of Slaton, Williams, Ryans, and our wide receivers, I have seen just about everyone else listed on a "Please cut/trade/fire" list somewhere on this messageboard. The coaches, owner, and some fans are usually targeted somewhere in there too.

After another embarrassing game yesterday, I can see where many of you are coming from.

But all emotion aside, we have to ask ourselves: Is it really time for wholesale changes?

My opinion is that its not. Don't get me wrong, I think there are tons of things wrong with this football team. However, I don't think those things are going to be fixed by cutting a majority of players. "Why?" You may ask

I have what I call the 10%-80%-10% NFL player rule. 10% of NFL players are so good and so talented that they will succeed in almost any situation, with almost any coach, on almost any team. 10% of NFL are so bad or so lazy, that no situation, no coach, and no team can bring out their potential. And 80% of players can look great in specific situations, on specific teams, with specific coaches. We have a few that fall into the top 10% (AJ and Mario) and then a lot of players that fall into the other two categories.

This is why terrible teams can make one key change (new QB, new coach, etc) and contend for the playoffs the very next year. This is why free agency is such a crapshoot, and why talented rookies never pan out on some teams, while other nobodies become solid role players. This is why our offensive line looked so awful two years ago and so much better last year.

When you looked at the Titans on paper a year or two ago, it looked like they were filled with a bunch of nobodies. But they won games. The Saints were a terrible team after Katrina hit, but the next year they went to the NFC championship game. Last year the Falcons barely won any games, but this year they stand a good chance of winning their division. On paper, this is a team with a bunch of guys who were terrible last year. How are they winning?

Its the 80% rule. Many of those guys who looked horrible last year and performing well this year. The new coaching staff, coupled with the new QB, turned this team around.

And I think the same thing is possible here. We have a lot of guys with talent that are simply getting worse and worse every week. Eric Winston and Chester Pitts played pretty well last year. Fred Bennett and Will Demps were potential pro-bowlers this year if things continued for them. And where are they now? All under performing.

I don't think we need to cut these players. I don't want a team that starts 10 rookies and I don't think a massive play into free agency is going to suddenly fix our team. I think a change in attitude, some changes in coaching, and one or two key position adjustments could pay massive dividends.

I think this season is shot, unfortunately, but I don't think we need a firesale on Texans talent to improve our chances for 2009

El Tejano
11-10-2008, 12:29 PM
I pretty much agree with you. I think when you compare us with the other teams that have turned it around, the main difference between them and us is the play of the QBs. They aren't turning over the ball and after 9 games our QBs have turned it over 16 times out of the 18 turnovers we've had all season.

I believe the coaches have called some dumb stuff in the past and yesterday but primarily on offense it has been the QB position that has screwed us up. Just think about all the drives that went into the redzone and we turned over the ball.

Richard Smith is a whole other topic. Our defense never looks aggressive enough, nor does it look like they are motivated to stopping anyone.

Norg
11-10-2008, 01:35 PM
either way hitting the reset button is never NEVER a good thing it makes us lose alot of money !!!! due to contracts

but if things continue 2 go south we might have no choice and besides dont we have the second most money in the NFL

its going to come down to does Capers want to win a Championship or hes he fine with being in the lower middle of the rankings every year

Jackie Chiles
11-10-2008, 01:38 PM
either way hitting the reset button is never NEVER a good thing it makes us lose alot of money !!!! due to contracts

but if things continue 2 go south we might have no choice and besides dont we have the second most money in the NFL

its going to come down to does Capers want to win a Championship or hes he fine with being in the lower middle of the rankings every year

Ohhh, your posts make more sense now. You are obviously stuck in a time warp. Newsflash, the year is 2008, Capers has been gone for 3 years and David Carr still sucks.

Norg
11-10-2008, 01:47 PM
Ohhh, your posts make more sense now. You are obviously stuck in a time warp. Newsflash, the year is 2008, Capers has been gone for 3 years and David Carr still sucks.


Or what ever our owners name is i dont care anymore the guy that spends teh money

OzzO
11-10-2008, 02:04 PM
Okay, I read the above from Norg and Capers as an owner... and still not following... so back to original post...

...I don't think we need to cut these players. I don't want a team that starts 10 rookies and I don't think a massive play into free agency is going to suddenly fix our team. I think a change in attitude, some changes in coaching, and one or two key position adjustments could pay massive dividends.

That's what I'm gonna agree with and feel the same way. Sad thing is, the team seemed to have the great attitude at the beginning of the year (as do they all) then it became the "same ol".

Coaching (not Kubiak) and a few key position revisions at defensive secondary and possibly a power RB I feel would make the biggest bang... but man they've gotta be on the money with those choices for the "change in attitude" to carry past the 1st regular season game.

HJam72
11-10-2008, 02:24 PM
either way hitting the reset button is never NEVER a good thing it makes us lose alot of money !!!! due to contracts

but if things continue 2 go south we might have no choice and besides dont we have the second most money in the NFL

its going to come down to does Capers want to win a Championship or hes he fine with being in the lower middle of the rankings every year

I think we'll be fine as long as we have Sharper and Glenn Earl. :mcnugget:

cowbellm00
11-10-2008, 02:37 PM
I Our defense never looks aggressive enough, nor does it look like they are motivated to stopping anyone.


exactily correct. i don't mean to steal someone elses material, but someone posted on here somewhere and it was so true.

here's 3 reasons why we always lose.

1- our offense plays poorly and we only score 0-7 points, defense gives up 30+ points and we lose.

2- our offense plays average and scores 7-21 points, our defense gives up 30+points and we lose.

3- our offense plays great and scores 12-28points, our defense gives up 30+points and we lose.

see the common denominator?

Mr teX
11-10-2008, 02:44 PM
to me it is time for wholesale changes only b/c i believe getting a new coach is a wholesale change. Think about it, with a new coach usually comes a new offensive & defensive philosophy, asst. staffing, attitude, draft strategies etc. most of those things this teams needs right now.

GP
11-10-2008, 02:49 PM
If Richard Smith is still D-Coord after season ends...

That's all we need to know, pertaining to if Kubiak should be trusted anymore.

I have zero faith in Kubiak, and even him making desparate moves in the offseason won't engender much confidence in Kubiak from me.

cowbellm00
11-10-2008, 02:49 PM
to me it is time for wholesale changes only b/c i believe getting a new coach is a wholesale change. Think about it, with a new coach usually comes a new offensive & defensive philosophy, asst. staffing, attitude, draft strategies etc. most of those things this teams needs right now.

not always. we didn't get any change when Kubiak came here. we still suck now more than ever. Capers only gave us losing seasons. Kubiak has too. And don't call last year a 500 season, Jax layed down for us in week 17...that was a losing season too.

gtexan02
11-10-2008, 02:49 PM
Richard Smith should have been gone 5 games ago.

gtexan02
11-10-2008, 02:50 PM
not always. we didn't get any change when Kubiak came here. we still suck now more than ever. Capers only gave us losing seasons. Kubiak has too. And don't call last year a 500 season, Jax layed down for us in week 17...that was a losing season too.

Im fine with saying we've never had a winning season, but because we beat a team that was resting starters doesn't take anything away from us. We were playing much better at the end of last year and we could easily have beaten Jax at home

cowbellm00
11-10-2008, 02:50 PM
Richard Smith should have been gone 5 games ago.

Smith should have never come here to begin with.

GP
11-10-2008, 02:52 PM
Smith should have never come here to begin with.

And who do you think is responsible for him being here?

It wasn't the GM. Richard Smith was hired way before Rick Smith became GM, or even a GM candidate (publicly, at least).

The HC brought in who he wanted. Why can't people see this?

cowbellm00
11-10-2008, 02:52 PM
Im fine with saying we've never had a winning season, but because we beat a team that was resting starters doesn't take anything away from us. We were playing much better at the end of last year and we could easily have beaten Jax at home

lmfao! I must disagree with you sir.

cowbellm00
11-10-2008, 02:54 PM
And who do you think is responsible for him being here?

It wasn't the GM. Richard Smith was hired way before Rick Smith became GM, or even a GM candidate (publicly, at least).

The HC brought in who he wanted. Why can't people see this?

Yeah I get that, but I wasn't sold on him then, nor am I now.

GP
11-10-2008, 04:44 PM
Yeah I get that, but I wasn't sold on him then, nor am I now.

I wasn't sold on him either, and people can look up the threads to see my "WHAT?!?!" posts where I was saying that it was not a good choice. Quite a few people were trying to spin it and rah-rah it. I like to think I follow NCAA FB and NFL FB pretty well, and I was like "Uh...who is this guy again?"

I keep things pretty simple: McNair looooooves to be profitable, and so he isn't going to spend the profits on getting the best in the business. He's playing a stock market game with his coaching choices, trying to get coaches with the most capability but with the fairest price that he deems to be fair enough (for what HE wants to spend). There is no cap on coaching salaries, which is the biggest indictment against McNair that I have. McNair needs to spend the profits (not all of it, obviously) and get the best you can get. And I'm still waiting for that magical off-season that everyone has predicted for the past few years when we have all this enormous cap space for acquiring "immediate impact" free agents. Ain't gonna' happen. That's more profit that can be lost.

People can say I have no proof of my theory, but it looks like it to me. It is definitely plausible that we have an owner who sees this team as an investment first...and I believe that there are owners out there who want profitability, but that they are also CRAVING a title at the same time. I don't see that in McNair. If so, we wouldn't have landed the d-coordinator that we did. He would not have even been a candidate in the first place.

People think I am drealing when I mention Run-N-Shoot and Mike Leach as HC here...but I tell you what the biggest dream of all has been: The dream that Kubiak had when he figured Richard Smith could get it done here as d-coord. THAT'S a pipe dream if you ask me.

No matter what you do, you get people who have succeeded. Success breeds success. It's contagious.

utahmark
11-10-2008, 05:06 PM
I wasn't sold on him either, and people can look up the threads to see my "WHAT?!?!" posts where I was saying that it was not a good choice. Quite a few people were trying to spin it and rah-rah it. I like to think I follow NCAA FB and NFL FB pretty well, and I was like "Uh...who is this guy again?"

I keep things pretty simple: McNair looooooves to be profitable, and so he isn't going to spend the profits on getting the best in the business. He's playing a stock market game with his coaching choices, trying to get coaches with the most capability but with the fairest price that he deems to be fair enough (for what HE wants to spend). There is no cap on coaching salaries, which is the biggest indictment against McNair that I have. McNair needs to spend the profits (not all of it, obviously) and get the best you can get. And I'm still waiting for that magical off-season that everyone has predicted for the past few years when we have all this enormous cap space for acquiring "immediate impact" free agents. Ain't gonna' happen. That's more profit that can be lost.

People can say I have no proof of my theory, but it looks like it to me. It is definitely plausible that we have an owner who sees this team as an investment first...and I believe that there are owners out there who want profitability, but that they are also CRAVING a title at the same time. I don't see that in McNair. If so, we wouldn't have landed the d-coordinator that we did. He would not have even been a candidate in the first place.

People think I am drealing when I mention Run-N-Shoot and Mike Leach as HC here...but I tell you what the biggest dream of all has been: The dream that Kubiak had when he figured Richard Smith could get it done here as d-coord. THAT'S a pipe dream if you ask me.

No matter what you do, you get people who have succeeded. Success breeds success. It's contagious.

im 150% positive that you can find a better investment with 1billion dollars than a professional football team. football teams are not profitable on a yearly basis. they do inflate in worth but thats got to stop someday and no way he is in this for the money. thats a ridiculous statement.

and we spend most of the money we have under the salary cap every year so its safe to say he's not saving money on players. their is a salary cap this isnt baseball. you cant be the yankees (i think they may have stopped that somewhat for them too)and spend all you want. now if they dont reach a labor agreement and the salary cap dissapears then we can see how much he will spend. untill that time you have no arguement.

worldlyman
11-10-2008, 08:46 PM
With the exception of Slaton, Williams, Ryans, and our wide receivers, I have seen just about everyone else listed on a "Please cut/trade/fire" list somewhere on this messageboard. The coaches, owner, and some fans are usually targeted somewhere in there too.

After another embarrassing game yesterday, I can see where many of you are coming from.

But all emotion aside, we have to ask ourselves: Is it really time for wholesale changes?

My opinion is that its not. Don't get me wrong, I think there are tons of things wrong with this football team. However, I don't think those things are going to be fixed by cutting a majority of players. "Why?" You may ask

I have what I call the 10%-80%-10% NFL player rule. 10% of NFL players are so good and so talented that they will succeed in almost any situation, with almost any coach, on almost any team. 10% of NFL are so bad or so lazy, that no situation, no coach, and no team can bring out their potential. And 80% of players can look great in specific situations, on specific teams, with specific coaches. We have a few that fall into the top 10% (AJ and Mario) and then a lot of players that fall into the other two categories.

This is why terrible teams can make one key change (new QB, new coach, etc) and contend for the playoffs the very next year. This is why free agency is such a crapshoot, and why talented rookies never pan out on some teams, while other nobodies become solid role players. This is why our offensive line looked so awful two years ago and so much better last year.

When you looked at the Titans on paper a year or two ago, it looked like they were filled with a bunch of nobodies. But they won games. The Saints were a terrible team after Katrina hit, but the next year they went to the NFC championship game. Last year the Falcons barely won any games, but this year they stand a good chance of winning their division. On paper, this is a team with a bunch of guys who were terrible last year. How are they winning?

Its the 80% rule. Many of those guys who looked horrible last year and performing well this year. The new coaching staff, coupled with the new QB, turned this team around.

And I think the same thing is possible here. We have a lot of guys with talent that are simply getting worse and worse every week. Eric Winston and Chester Pitts played pretty well last year. Fred Bennett and Will Demps were potential pro-bowlers this year if things continued for them. And where are they now? All under performing.

I don't think we need to cut these players. I don't want a team that starts 10 rookies and I don't think a massive play into free agency is going to suddenly fix our team. I think a change in attitude, some changes in coaching, and one or two key position adjustments could pay massive dividends.

I think this season is shot, unfortunately, but I don't think we need a firesale on Texans talent to improve our chances for 2009

Well, the funny thing to me is that I think Matt Schaub is a fine QB. I think that he is in a situation where he is a pure pocket passer that's playing behind a zone block line that's simply not giving the running game a more dominant role.

Look at other great pocket QBs such as Dan Fouts, Dan Marino and Peyton Manning. They had terrific offensive lines that protected them very well in their primes.

If you put Schaub behind those lines, he would have the opportunity to be as productive as they. But all this "all QBs get hit" doesn't have as much argument if there's an offensive line that can consistently protect well.

If Schaub is going to play behind a Denver-style system, then that running game had better be even more potent than the passing. The Denver scheme is even more focused on the run game...having produced the likes of Terrell Davis to Clinton Portis.

The Texans need that because in Broncos games where the running wasn't happening at least John Elway was shifty and wily enough to make great getaways from good pass rushes. Schaub doesn't possess those attributes.

But the fact that Matt Schaub has made the Texans' passing game so potent is a credit to his ability even if the Alex Gibbs scheme is not up to par. He gets knocked down but has shown what he can do if he can get decent protection. He is downright accurate.

If Manning, Fouts and Marino were afforded great o-lines to work with, then why can't Schaub get that? Perhaps the Denver system utilized by Kubiak is not suitable for Schaub.

This being said, then the Texans better get a good back to complement Slaton, make the running game a force, not a mere complement to the passing game.

The defense needs improvement in the secondary, that's for sure. Then we can see if the talented front four is really as good as it's made out to be.

To answer the question, no the Texans don't need wholesale changes. Perhaps either really make a point to upgrade the running game OR change the scheme to pass protect Schaub instead of chop-blocking defenses.