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View Full Version : Kubes...Another year or not?


Drew_Smoke
11-07-2008, 08:42 AM
I'd like to get a gauge on how we're thinking. I don't really want to start a huge (I am easily bored) debate on the merits either way.

And please don't be the one to post "We could get Bill Cowher" either.

I read someone in the paper say Kubes was learning under fire (along those lines) and that may be the case. He's not gonna get worse. I have been in my field for 20 years and learn new things all of the time. Constantly!

I think Kubes could become a great one if he's given the time. I ain't waitin' another 5 years. I think we're getting closer and are on the brink of respectability.

drewmar74
11-07-2008, 08:45 AM
Hey, we could get Bill Cowher! :tiphat:








Sorry, man. Couldn't help myself.

Silver Oak
11-07-2008, 08:46 AM
the only opinion that matters is Mr. McNair's, and I don't believe he wants to be the kind of owner who churns through coachs every few years.

he'll give Kubiak the time he needs, and I'm ok with that as well.

like many others here, there has to be some serious looks at the defensive side and see if the problems are coaching or talent. I lean towards a mix of both.

False Start
11-07-2008, 08:51 AM
Hey, we could get Bill Cowher! :tiphat:








Sorry, man. Couldn't help myself.



That's the solution right there. :heh:

I say give Pubes one more year after this season, if he still can't get this team headed in the right direction and win a game on the road, hit the bricks.

mexican_texan
11-07-2008, 08:51 AM
The Pittsburgh Steelers have had 3 coaches in their history. I'd rather go down that road than get a new coach every six years.

Buffi2
11-07-2008, 08:58 AM
Kubiak isn't going anywhere this year - McNair won't even entertain the thought. There has been progress - maybe not fast enough - but progress is being made. Kubiak may have to suffer through a "winning season for 2009 or else" speech - but he will still be here. I think K has the potential to be an excellent coach - he just needs time (management) and a few more good players.

Mr. White
11-07-2008, 09:00 AM
I go back and forth on this one. At this point, I'm afraid the bad outweighs the good.

Seems like the problems that we're having this year are the same problems that we've always had since the franchise started up.

DBCooper
11-07-2008, 09:01 AM
What Kubiak needs to do is show some cohones and Fire Richard Smith!

Mr. White
11-07-2008, 09:04 AM
What Kubiak needs to do is show some cohones and Fire Richard Smith!

He should have done that after his first season.

mexican_texan
11-07-2008, 09:07 AM
What Kubiak needs to do is show some cohones and Fire Richard Smith!
Exactly. He's done his job, he made this offense one of the best in the league. When did we ever 20 points consistently with Capers? It's the defense that's the problem.

Dean 74
11-07-2008, 09:17 AM
hmm.
sherman goin nowhere fast. is kubes next up for aggieland?
-74

Mr. White
11-07-2008, 09:25 AM
Exactly. He's done his job, he made this offense one of the best in the league. When did we ever 20 points consistently with Capers? It's the defense that's the problem.

If he were the offensive coordinator, he would have done his job. Since he's the head coach, his job is to make both sides of the ball better.

I hold him responsible for not canning Richard Smith 2 years ago when it was obvious he wasn't NFL caliber.

Ole Miss Texan
11-07-2008, 09:28 AM
Fire Kubiak? LOL. Sure why not... while we're at it let's go ahead and fire Alex Gibbs because the enterior of our OL is getting manhandled every play.

The truth is, this team is light years better than it was 3 years ago. Wins are the most important thing when it comes to football, as it should be, but this isn't the Oakland Raiders. If you give a coach a crap team, the majority of the time it's going to take some time to build them up especially when you swith offense and defensive schemes requiring new personnel.

Our offense is close to being one of the best in the league. Stats-wise, we're already there but I think we still need some improvement on the OL and another RB before we are REALLY a top 5 offense. Defensively, we need some major help. Not only do we need better players (which they are slowly getting without breaking the bank) but they need time to mature. All our "star" players we have on the Defense have an average age of 23 (Mario, Amobi, Demeco, Diles, Bennett, Dunta). I know we all expect these guys to come in and immediately dominate the game but we have to be realistic here. If we go heavy on Defense this draft and offseason (Nnamdi Asomaghaquahaha from the raiders) we'll still have a young D LOADED with talent and when they develop in another couple years, it will be an incredible D to pair up with an already prolific offense.

Give Kubiak some more time. I'm glad McNair doesn't have some knee jerk reactions like many of the fans do.

alphajoker
11-07-2008, 09:29 AM
I voted yes but with an asterik that would denote firing Richard Smith instead.

GP
11-07-2008, 09:30 AM
I voted "Can him." I had to impose a 24-hour ban upon myself, to cool down, because (as a fan) I am just at a breaking point with our HC. It's proper to be supportive of your leaders, I understand that. But this is year 3...and I only wonder what's going to happen if we load up for year 4 with Schaub and Sage again. Help me to see how it goes better in year 4.

I've seen all I need to see. No need to cross my fingers and hope he figures stuff out. He's making bone-headed decisions with the game clock, challenge flags (when to throw and when to hold), and the handling of our active roster for QB is stupid: Only carry two QBs? We went into the Indy game with Sage and, well...err...umm...Sage because Schaub was too ill and therefore Owen Daniels would have been QB if something had happened to Sage. How is that even remotely a smart coaching strategy?

His road record is awful, too.

He can't inspire his team to beat the beatable teams, and he can't inspire them to beat the teams that are better than us...even if it was a low percentage, let's say every 1 out of three times we beat is a team better than us, he still can't do it. Give me 30% winning percentage on the teams that are better than us and I'm listening. Have we approached that yet?

He signed off on, and I suppose he actually WANTED, Richard Smith for defensive coordinator. That's a major indictment against Kubiak right there. And he continues to stick with Richard Smith after 2 1/2 seasons of the worst defensive strategy I have seen in a long time by an NFL d-coordinator.

But, hey...no need to actually put Kubiak's errors under a microscope here. He's learning on the job! But, what is he learning if he's still doing the same wrong thing(s) week in and week and out?

1. Fire your d-coordinator

2. Carry three QBs on the active roster, Weaver or Travis Johnson can sit as far as I am concerned in order to free up a spot or two (Cochran and Bulman are handling things just fine)

3. Drop the playcalling sheet, Gary, and be a leader of the team.

4. Admit that Schaub and Sage are not getting it done. Move on. Go grab a legitimate youngster in the draft and let him learn from Schaub in Schaub's third year next season. We can't afford to go QB in a trade (again) that involves draft picks--That idea was a dud. The new QB has to be a draft pick, or a free agent picked up for anything other than draft pick compensation.

I'm afraid that hoping Gary Kubiak will make it as a HC here is like hoping Matt Schaub will make it here as a QB: Two guys who were close to sealing the deal, but can't. I don't hate 'em for it. But they've made some cash, and as Gary says "Through adversity comes opportunity..." I hope Gary gets his opportunity sooner rather than later.

I've said since this time last year that Gary is a guy who stopped the bleeding (caused by Capers) and he's put the team in a spot for another HC to come in and propel this team to the next level. It's similar, to me, to what happened when Dungy left TB for Indy: He took an average Colts team from Mora and took it up a notch. I think someone comes along and does that after Kubiak leaves. And maybe kubiak goes somewhere and it clicks for him.

But I just don't get excited about this team anymore. The bloom was off the Gary Kubiak and Matt Shcaub rose, for me, by the midway part of last season.

Ole Miss Texan
11-07-2008, 09:30 AM
hmm.
sherman goin nowhere fast. is kubes next up for aggieland?
-74

Dear Mr. Franchione,

Thanks for all the help recruiting the quality studs you've left me with, this is already such an outstanding football team. How can I even make it better!?

Signed,

Mike Sherman

Ole Miss Texan
11-07-2008, 09:38 AM
I voted "Can him." I had to impose a 24-hour ban upon myself, to cool down, because (as a fan) I am just at a breaking point with our HC. It's proper to be supportive of your leaders, I understand that. But this is year 3...and I only wonder what's going to happen if we load up for year 4 with Schaub and Sage again. Help me to see how it goes better in year 4.

I've seen all I need to see. No need to cross my fingers and hope he figures stuff out. He's making bone-headed decisions with the game clock, challenge flags (when to throw and when to hold), and the handling of our active roster for QB is stupid: Only carry two QBs? We went into the Indy game with Sage and, well...err...umm...Sage because Schaub was too ill and therefore Owen Daniels would have been QB if something had happened to Sage. How is that even remotely a smart coaching strategy?

His road record is awful, too.

He can't inspire his team to beat the beatable teams, and he can't inspire them to beat the teams that are better than us...even if it was a low percentage, let's say every 1 out of three times we beat is a team better than us, he still can't do it. Give me 30% winning percentage on the teams that are better than us and I'm listening. Have we approached that yet?

He signed off on, and I suppose he actually WANTED, Richard Smith for defensive coordinator. That's a major indictment against Kubiak right there. And he continues to stick with Richard Smith after 2 1/2 seasons of the worst defensive strategy I have seen in a long time by an NFL d-coordinator.

But, hey...no need to actually put Kubiak's errors under a microscope here. He's learning on the job! But, what is he learning if he's still doing the same wrong thing(s) week in and week and out?

1. Fire your d-coordinator

2. Carry three QBs on the active roster, Weaver or Travis Johnson can sit as far as I am concerned in order to free up a spot or two (Cochran and Bulman are handling things just fine)

3. Drop the playcalling sheet, Gary, and be a leader of the team.

4. Admit that Schaub and Sage are not getting it done. Move on. Go grab a legitimate youngster in the draft and let him learn from Schaub in Schaub's third year next season. We can't afford to go QB in a trade (again) that involves draft picks--That idea was a dud. The new QB has to be a draft pick, or a free agent picked up for anything other than draft pick compensation.

I'm afraid that hoping Gary Kubiak will make it as a HC here is like hoping Matt Schaub will make it here as a QB: Two guys who were close to sealing the deal, but can't. I don't hate 'em for it. But they've made some cash, and as Gary says "Through adversity comes opportunity..."

Year one: 6-10
Year two: 8-8
Year three: 3-5 (annualized to a 6-10 record)
-so regressing in the W/L column one year requires firing? Even though last year we would have been 7-9 if Jacksonville would have decided they wanted to play hard for 5 minutes. You say he can't inspire the team to beat the beatable teams... yet we just went on a 3 game winning streak for the 1st time in franchise history against the beatable teams.
-This season the team has done a really good job of NOT committing penalties. That's something they worked on A LOT in the offseason.
- Turnovers is another biggie, so far our QB's have turned the ball over too much. That's really the only (or biggest) thing holding this offense back which is doing so great even with them. What if Schaub corrects this problem, even just a little bit? Year 4 will be amazing.
- I think Frank Bush is the guy Kubiak really wants for the Defense and I think soon enough he'll get the nod.

You've raised some pretty good points that need to be worked on. I think that's exactly what it is though, a list to improve on and things that can definitely get taken care of.. thus not requiring a firing.. but that's just me.

TexanSam
11-07-2008, 09:46 AM
It depends on how we finish the season. 5-11 or worse = goodbye. 6-10 or better=one more shot

The1ApplePie
11-07-2008, 09:58 AM
The Pittsburgh Steelers have had 3 coaches in their history. I'd rather go down that road than get a new coach every six years.

They were all good coaches though

New coaches have really turned around teams this year (Miami, Baltimore, Washington, even St. Louis). Payton and Mangini also out performed Kubes in their first years and look to be doing so again.

If we had a shot at Spagnulo from the Giants I don't know how we could pass it up.

Wolf
11-07-2008, 10:09 AM
I am in the keep Kubiac crowd but if something isn't done about the DC area after this season. I am afraid that it will be Gary's undoing

noxiousdog
11-07-2008, 10:10 AM
They were all good coaches though

Chuck Noll's record after 3 years: 12-30.

Bill Billichick's record after 5 years: 36-55.

Tom Landry's record after 6 years: 25-53.

Immediate head coaching success (when not inheriting an already good team) is the exception.

GP
11-07-2008, 10:19 AM
Year one: 6-10
Year two: 8-8
1. Year three: 3-5 (annualized to a 6-10 record)
-so regressing in the W/L column one year requires firing? Even though last year we would have been 7-9 if Jacksonville would have decided they wanted to play hard for 5 minutes. You say he can't inspire the team to beat the beatable teams... 2. yet we just went on a 3 game winning streak for the 1st time in franchise history against the beatable teams. -This season the team has done a really good job of NOT committing penalties. That's something they worked on A LOT in the offseason.
- Turnovers is another biggie, so far our QB's have turned the ball over too much. That's really the only (or biggest) thing holding this offense back which is doing so great even with them. 3. What if Schaub corrects this problem, even just a little bit? Year 4 will be amazing.
- 4. I think Frank Bush is the guy Kubiak really wants for the Defense and I think soon enough he'll get the nod.

You've raised some pretty good points that need to be worked on. I think that's exactly what it is though, a list to improve on and things that can definitely get taken care of.. thus not requiring a firing.. but that's just me.

1. Year three: 3-5 (annualized to a 6-10 record) : That's a step in the wrong direction, especially when Jax and Indy are on the ropes this year.

2. Yet we just went on a 3 game winning streak for the 1st time in franchise history against the beatable teams : And, as I have said the past few weeks "Let's put an asterisk beside those three games: 3-19 combined record, with four straight games at home." That's where Kubiak's awful road record comes into play: It negates what he did at home when having four straight home games as opposed to having to play elsewhere where the pressure is greater upon the whole team. Had we beat the Vikings, I'd be inclined to say that Kubiak might get his head above water after all...but, well, the team reverted back to its ACTUAL self. The 3-game streak was not a true indicator of progress for this team. Never was, and never will be. It's just a stat that gets built up because other teams had 3-game streaks and we didn't. Big whoop. Where's the 3-game streak going to take this team?

3. What if Schaub corrects this problem, even just a little bit? Year 4 will be amazing : I see no positive indication that Matt Schaub will be the QB he is supposed to be, not when he requires a perfect 360-degree three-yard halo in order to stay upright and healthy. I don't have an agenda against the guy, and I appluaded the Texans for making the move for Schaub when it happened. I just don't see how this is working out, in the long run. And I don't want to hang this on the oline, either. They reduced sacks DRAMATICALLY last year.

4. I think Frank Bush is the guy Kubiak really wants for the Defense and I think soon enough he'll get the nod : Well, then Kubiak moves at a glacial pace when it comes to giving the nod. The NFL is a short season: Pretty much a 4-month season and you're done for a long time. So why is there this need to let richard Smith hang onto the job after 2.5 seasons of head-scratching defense? There seems to be this idea by Kubiak that he has 15 years to ascend to greatness, like they had in the olden days of the NFL. And with Bob McNair as owner? Heck, he just might have that long.

I agree that the low penalty yards is an improvement. But there's such a long list of simple simple stuff that isn't being corrected right now. Those guys make a lot of money. They make in a few years what we make our whole lives. I'd sorta' expect them to produce on the simple stuff, at least.

GP
11-07-2008, 10:27 AM
Chuck Noll's record after 3 years: 12-30.

Bill Billichick's record after 5 years: 36-55.

Tom Landry's record after 6 years: 25-53.

Immediate head coaching success (when not inheriting an already good team) is the exception.

So you think Kubiak looks like these guys?

I can't envision Gary Kubiak becoming one of those guys. I say this not after four games into Kubiak's regime. Nor after one season. We're in the third year, and in with all respect to Kubiak: He doesn't appear to be a Landry or Noll or a Belichick to me.

The guy can't watch crucial plays as they happen. He can't stand to watch potential game-winning field goals, due to the underwhelming since of low expectations that he seems to have...it's that or he can't stomach the idea of letting another game slip away.

I just don't see it, and that's my opinion. I could be wrong, though. It's happened once before [/jk].

Texecutioner
11-07-2008, 10:33 AM
I think it is pretty ridiculous that so many fans have to continue to revert back to a 2-14 season to make Kubiak look good by bringing up improvements. The team had nowhere to go but up, and please don't bring up the Raiders or the Lions into the conversation either as an example of how a team doesn't always improve because the Lions have been gutter garbage for 50 years now and the Raiders have been a circuis for years as well.

There have been SEVERAL teams that have had new head coaches since Kubiak was hired and quite a few of them have already either been in the playoffs or are heading in that direction sooner than the Texans are. This team right now could have two more wins if it wasn't for this bumbling ***** of a game manager. The guy wouldn't even open up a QB competition to see if he had the right guy back there for sure. And if he was so certain that Shaub was the guy then he should have had full confidence that he would have won the job out right.

Kubiak has a Shanahan syndrome but he isn't Shanahan. He thinks he can take any ole RB and make him the next Terrell Davis. Luckily Slaton looks like he will be a good RB, but it took Kubiak after two years to finally look for one in the 3rd round. He has put all his chips and confidence in AMAAN GREEN and KRIS BROWN for god sakes. How many times in the last 2 seasons have I seen Kubiak run the ball on 3rd and long? The guy is a play not to lose type coach in my opinion.

He might get us to the playoffs at some point, because we all know that Mcnair only cares about making money. I don't see Kubiak ever taking this team out of the first round of the playoffs though. He might get there, but I don't see the intangibles of a winning coach in this guy. I never have since he's been here the same way I didn't in Capers. He did a decent job in getting us out of the hole, but he isn't the guy to make us an ELITE team. He might make us respectable, but he won't make this team elite. He is in his 3rd season and we're no longer in a super tough division, so that excuses went out the window. We have missed some big time opportunities this season and it has to fall on the head coach.

noxiousdog
11-07-2008, 10:35 AM
So you think Kubiak looks like these guys?

I can't envision Gary Kubiak becoming one of those guys. I say this not after four games into Kubiak's regime. Nor after one season. We're in the third year, and in with all respect to Kubiak: He doesn't appear to be a Landry or Noll or a Belichick to me.

The guy can't watch crucial plays as they happen. He can't stand to watch potential game-winning field goals, due to the underwhelming since of low expectations that he seems to have...it's that or he can't stomach the idea of letting another game slip away.

I just don't see it, and that's my opinion. I could be wrong, though. It's happened once before [/jk].


Of course he doesn't look like those guys. THOSE guys (in year 3,5, and 6) didn't look like those guys when they retired.

Wolf
11-07-2008, 10:39 AM
Thing is that this is a Not For Long league with parity and salary cap era.. but we need a defensive coach that can get the defense on the level as the offense is

noxiousdog
11-07-2008, 10:41 AM
There have been SEVERAL teams that have had new head coaches since Kubiak was hired and quite a few of them have already either been in the playoffs or are heading in that direction sooner than the Texans are. This team right now could have two more wins if it wasn't for this bumbling ***** of a game manager. The guy wouldn't even open up a QB competition to see if he had the right guy back there for sure. And if he was so certain that Shaub was the guy then he should have had full confidence that he would have won the job out right.

Making the playoffs a couple times doesn't make you a good coach. Marvin Lewis looks like a bad joke. Jack Del Rio is decidedly mediocre. For all the media darlingness of New Orleans, Sean Payton is 2 games over .500.

The last thing I was to do is start over again. If you're bringing someone in, it better be a Bill Cowher or nothing. There's not a single other guy (well, Jimmy Johnson I suppose, but that's not happening) that's available that has a significantly better resume than Kubiak.

And unless Bill Cowher would adapt to a 4-3, Mario Williams make him an impossibility as well.

Specnatz
11-07-2008, 10:43 AM
The main reason the team is not winning like it should is not because of Kubiak in general. It is the defense. the offense improved dramatically and that is Kubiak's forte. Now he has to show that he knows what the problem is on the other side of the ball and completely overhaul all the coaches there and I do mean all of them. Not one of them is doing the job they have been hired to do.

If Kubiak tells Rick Smith that Richard is a good coach, then fire him.

Drew_Smoke
11-07-2008, 10:45 AM
He might get us to the playoffs at some point, because we all know that Mcnair only cares about making money.

I doubt a cat that throws dome 700 million bones for a football team is worried too much about money. He wants the prestige of owning a Super Bowl champ. Thats what they all want. See Cuban in Dumpy D.

Texecutioner
11-07-2008, 10:53 AM
Chuck Noll's record after 3 years: 12-30.

Bill Billichick's record after 5 years: 36-55.

Tom Landry's record after 6 years: 25-53.

Immediate head coaching success (when not inheriting an already good team) is the exception.

When is this going to stop? Trying to bring up head coaches like Tom Landry who coached the game 30 years ago or whatever when he first started? I suppose the Fisher record is going to pop up next?

For every successful head coach where one of you tries to use early struggles record wise I can probably name about 5 to each one you guys bring up that started out the same way Kubiak did, but ended up failing miserably and their respective teams ended up wasting another season or two and even three at times thinking their new guy or new coordinator that finally was given the opportunity for a head coaching position was going to become THAT GUY but it didn't ever happen.

How come none of you are posting the head coaching records of all of the Norv Turners, the Mike Nolans, the Dave Campos, the Dick Jaurons, the Scott Linehans, the Jim Hasletts, hell I could go on and on.

I mean look at all of the coaches that might be on the chopping block this season? You sit around waiting for a head coach to get it, before you know it some of your stars contracts are up and they go to other teams the head coach's voice gets tiring and old, fans start to get more and more frustrated, and it becomes a snowball effect all around the place. I haven't forgotten what happened when Capers finally completely lost this team. Kubiak just doesn't seem to get it either. I think this team has the potential now to be a GREAT OFFENSE, but they need a better leader. They need a guy that has the balls to fire a terrible defensive coordinator as well.

Texecutioner
11-07-2008, 10:59 AM
The last thing I was to do is start over again.

LOL! Starting over? Where do some of you come up with this stuff? The only time you're starting over is when you have what the Texans had when they were 2-14 or what the Dolphins had last season? You're not starting over just because you hire a new head coach. Some of you act as if a new head coach would come in here and trade AJ, put Mario on waivers and bench Demeco.

New head coaches don't just come into new teams and get rid of great players. They may bring their new system and philosophy, but they don't kill the nuts and bolts of the team. That is just stupid. Head coaches don't do that. They may bring in a few players that they've coached before or a few new players that fit their schemes better, but they don't come in and tear the team apart if it has play makers and they aren't far from being a really solid team.

Texecutioner
11-07-2008, 11:06 AM
I doubt a cat that throws dome 700 million bones for a football team is worried too much about money. He wants the prestige of owning a Super Bowl champ. Thats what they all want. See Cuban in Dumpy D.

You're comparing Mcnair to Cuban? Wow! I've heard some homerish stuff in here, but they are not even remotely comparable as owners. Cuban is more of a Jerry Jones type of owner that tries to be hands on and is loud and even to a fault at times, but make no mistake about it, HE WANTS TO WIN. He'll go all out and do whatever it takes and I respect that. I respect that Mcnair is a classy owner and all, but that doesn't go back to winning. Mcnair may want to win, but he hasn't showed that he has that competitive edge as an NFL owner where it drives him nuts to lose like other owners. He cares about having a respectable football team with good fans and a nice atmosphere at Reliant on Sundays. That is fine if you're a team investor but that doesn't cut it for passionate fans that desire to win. We're patient, but we still have expectations of achieving and moving forward year after year. And I don't mean winning one more game each year either and calling that improvements.

Hervoyel
11-07-2008, 11:11 AM
I go another year with Kubiak. I think that it will be very apparent following this season that there need to be changes on the defensive side of the ball and I like where Kubiak has the offense headed. McNair and Smith should get together and tell Gary that his defense isn't getting the job done and they should all three work together after the season to do whatever is necessary to get that fixed. I think it's a little more coaching than talent but surely we could use some more talent as well.

I think another year will be justified. I'll tell you all something else too on this subject. I think that if nothing is done about the defense this year (and I'm speaking about coaching and scheme, not talent here) then I don't really much care if Kubiak comes back or is kicked to the curb following 2009. It won't matter to me at that point because I'll have no faith that McNair would be able to pick a better coach anyway so why not just stand pat at that point.

If the team does nothing about the pitiful excuse for a defense that they run after this year and everybody goes forward with this whole "well we had all those injuries...." crutch B.S. then that tells the take of where this team is going. It tells me that the problem is institutional and that it stems from Bob McNair and frankly at that point I'm going to go get a hobby or take up watching NCAA football or something. There's no point in following the team if they're run by an owner who can't tell shite from shineola.

beerlover
11-07-2008, 11:19 AM
I go another year with Kubiak. I think that it will be very apparent following this season that there need to be changes on the defensive side of the ball and I like where Kubiak has the offense headed. McNair and Smith should get together and tell Gary that his defense isn't getting the job done and they should all three work together after the season to do whatever is necessary to get that fixed. I think it's a little more coaching than talent but surely we could use some more talent as well.

I think another year will be justified. I'll tell you all something else too on this subject. I think that if nothing is done about the defense this year (and I'm speaking about coaching and scheme, not talent here) then I don't really much care if Kubiak comes back or is kicked to the curb following 2009. It won't matter to me at that point because I'll have no faith that McNair would be able to pick a better coach anyway so why not just stand pat at that point.

If the team does nothing about the pitiful excuse for a defense that they run after this year and everybody goes forward with this whole "well we had all those injuries...." crutch B.S. then that tells the take of where this team is going. It tells me that the problem is institutional and that it stems from Bob McNair and frankly at that point I'm going to go get a hobby or take up watching NCAA football or something. There's no point in following the team if they're run by an owner who can't tell shite from shineola.

well said, rep your way :wesmantexanfan:

BigBull17
11-07-2008, 11:31 AM
So you think Kubiak looks like these guys?

I can't envision Gary Kubiak becoming one of those guys. I say this not after four games into Kubiak's regime. Nor after one season. We're in the third year, and in with all respect to Kubiak: He doesn't appear to be a Landry or Noll or a Belichick to me.

The guy can't watch crucial plays as they happen. He can't stand to watch potential game-winning field goals, due to the underwhelming since of low expectations that he seems to have...it's that or he can't stomach the idea of letting another game slip away.

I just don't see it, and that's my opinion. I could be wrong, though. It's happened once before [/jk].

Belichick was run out of Cleveland, and fell into a HoF QB. He was on a road to potential bust head coach when the Pats made their run. He didnt start out so great.

Drew_Smoke
11-07-2008, 11:36 AM
You're comparing Mcnair to Cuban? Wow! I've heard some homerish stuff in here, but they are not even remotely comparable as owners. Cuban is more of a Jerry Jones type of owner that tries to be hands on and is loud and even to a fault at times, but make no mistake about it, HE WANTS TO WIN. He'll go all out and do whatever it takes and I respect that. I respect that Mcnair is a classy owner and all, but that doesn't go back to winning. Mcnair may want to win, but he hasn't showed that he has that competitive edge as an NFL owner where it drives him nuts to lose like other owners. He cares about having a respectable football team with good fans and a nice atmosphere at Reliant on Sundays. That is fine if you're a team investor but that doesn't cut it for passionate fans that desire to win. We're patient, but we still have expectations of achieving and moving forward year after year. And I don't mean winning one more game each year either and calling that improvements.

Posting in bold type doesn't make you right.

The 2 owners you mentioned are buffoons. More embarassing than not.

Texecutioner
11-07-2008, 11:41 AM
Posting in bold type doesn't make you right.

The 2 owners you mentioned are buffoons. More embarassing than not.

If you're so misinformed that all you can do to counter a point is bring up bold, then don't waste your time. I'll consider you waving the white flag on this discussion since you've obviously got nothing to fall back on.

Norg
11-07-2008, 11:51 AM
i like kubes

give and think he will be here for a long time when or lose

i say he will still be around here in 2012

HJam72
11-07-2008, 11:55 AM
Keep Kubes, lose Richard Smith.

Start Okam AND TJ.

Draft more DBs on first day.

Use less bold.

'nuff said. :kingkong:

Drew_Smoke
11-07-2008, 12:05 PM
If you're so misinformed that all you can do to counter a point is bring up bold, then don't waste your time. I'll consider you waving the white flag on this discussion since you've obviously got nothing to fall back on.

The next time I wave the white flag will be the first. You say Cuban and jerrah are great owners. Way to go bold boy.

I say they are buffoons. You can start a poll if it will make you feel better.

HJam72
11-07-2008, 12:12 PM
Maybe I should do it too. :thinking:

Do I seem more macho like this? :cool:

Drew_Smoke
11-07-2008, 12:23 PM
Maybe I should do it too. :thinking:

Do I seem more macho like this? :cool:



Yes...mucho machos. How do I look?

Maybe some new BOLD font to be xtra kewl....??

nunusguy
11-07-2008, 12:24 PM
McNair might surprise us at the end of the year if Kubiak ends up with a
record of something like 5-11 ? It's not going to be easy to sell tickets next year if he's out of the money again on the playoffs especailly after Kubiak hyped it during the preseason, let alone if we finsish up several games short of even 500.

Texecutioner
11-07-2008, 12:34 PM
Yes...mucho machos. How do I look?

Maybe some new BOLD font to be xtra kewl....??

Lol! Funny how you completely run from the discussion to bring up something as silly as a bold font. I guess I should start doing that when I can't come up with a rebuttal and bring up your regular font. I swear, some of you guys crack me up.

Texecutioner
11-07-2008, 12:35 PM
Maybe I should do it too. :thinking:

Do I seem more macho like this? :cool:


Do you have an opinion or did you just feel like trolling the thread Hjam72?

HJam72
11-07-2008, 12:36 PM
Nah, he'll just fire the DC. I think McNair really wants to be one of those owners who almost never replaces the head coach. I think it would take a sub-4 win season to get Kubiak gone.

Wolf
11-07-2008, 12:38 PM
besides getting the defense upgraded


Kubiak still has to get a better handle on time management (or get his players to be better)

and whoever is the one telling Kubiak to challenge or not challenge a call needs to either be replaced or study very hard over the offseason

Drew_Smoke
11-07-2008, 12:44 PM
Lol! Funny how you completely run from the discussion to bring up something as silly as a bold font. I guess I should start doing that when I can't come up with a rebuttal and bring up your regular font. I swear, some of you guys crack me up.


You crack me up. I have giggled more than once at some of the dribble you have posted. When one does not agree with you, you go into this holier and wiser than thou routine. It is comical and pathetic all at the same time...if that is possible.

I am comfortable with who I am. If someone doesn't agree with me...I am still okay.

I don't run and the next time I put someone on ignore will also be the first. Fire away all you want. You just tighten the noose of the consensus seeing you for what you are.

Texecutioner
11-07-2008, 12:44 PM
Nah, he'll just fire the DC. I think McNair really wants to be one of those owners who almost never replaces the head coach. I think it would take a sub-4 win season to get Kubiak gone.

I think much is obvious. He doesn't want to deal with the evaluations of looking for a new guy again. However, you've got to be certain that you've got the right guy before you commit to giving any head coach several years.

The Bills just gave Dick Jauron an extension and I think that was a terrible mistake when the season isn't even over with and Jauron hasn't accomplished anything in Buffalo.

da Bull
11-07-2008, 12:45 PM
McNair might surprise us at the end of the year if Kubiak ends up with a
record of something like 5-11 ? It's not going to be easy to sell tickets next year if he's out of the money again on the playoffs especailly after Kubiak hyped it during the preseason, let alone if we finsish up several games short of even 500.

The bottom line is selling tickets.....and I may not renew my season tickets if we have to endure another season of Richard Smith and Jon Hoke. Hoke has gotten a longer ride (Capers holdover) than Smith and I think it is definitely time for a change in the defensive backfield as well as overall defensive play calling.

I've been frustrated with Kubiak this season, but in retrospect most of my frustration has stemmed from the defense's inconsistency. When N.D. Kalu left he had good things to say about Kubiak but didn't mention Smith....is that coincidence? I think not.

Texecutioner
11-07-2008, 12:51 PM
You crack me up. I have giggled more than once at some of the dribble you have posted. When one does not agree with you, you go into this holier and wiser than thou routine. It is comical and pathetic all at the same time...if that is possible.

I am comfortable with who I am. If someone doesn't agree with me...I am still okay.

I don't run and the next time I put someone on ignore will also be the first. Fire away all you want. You just tighten the noose of the consensus seeing you for what you are.

First off, I made my points. Just because you disagreed with them you came back with nothing but "Oh, you're posting in bold".

Holier than thou? How? Because I have my opinion and I made several examples to support it. Oh, but you disagree, so it's pathetic? Good luck believing your own drivel. I haven't insulted you or anyone for that matter. I just listed my view point, while you failed to do so and reverted into a Bold vs. regular font argument.

If you can't handle someone disagreeing with you then don't even bother posting. Message boards are for opinions. Go ahead and put me on ignore if the BOLD hurts so much to where you can't even carry on a civil discussion.

Ole Miss Texan
11-07-2008, 01:06 PM
I think Texecutioner has some very valid points. I think they can be handled without the firing of a head coach but they are things wrong with the team and things that need to get fixed, regardless of who's coach. If it's a new one, so be it. I certainly don't think so at this point but just because someone thinks differently doesn't mean they're necessarily wrong.
besides getting the defense upgraded

Kubiak still has to get a better handle on time management (or get his players to be better)

and whoever is the one telling Kubiak to challenge or not challenge a call needs to either be replaced or study very hard over the offseason

This is something that's troubled me. I really don't understand how difficult it can be. This year seems so much more obvious than previous years. I don't fault Kubiak b/c when your on the sideline, typically you'll have very poor 1st hand knowledge of the play and it's very difficult to see it in live action. Someone upstairs is the one that gets to watch the play and convey what they see.

This brings up another point on personnel (players, coaches, supporting cast). What would be Kubiak's decision and what would be Rick Smith's? I feel Smith would have a lot of say on who they want and who they don't, when it comes to coaches and other members of the support staff.

noxiousdog
11-07-2008, 01:09 PM
For every successful head coach where one of you tries to use early struggles record wise I can probably name about 5 to each one you guys bring up that started out the same way Kubiak did, but ended up failing miserably and their respective teams ended up wasting another season or two and even three at times thinking their new guy or new coordinator that finally was given the opportunity for a head coaching position was going to become THAT GUY but it didn't ever happen.

Of course you can. It's called survival bias.


How come none of you are posting the head coaching records of all of the Norv Turners, the Mike Nolans, the Dave Campos, the Dick Jaurons, the Scott Linehans, the Jim Hasletts, hell I could go on and on.

Because more likely than not, that's what Kubiak is. That doesn't mean you pull the plug, because more likely than not, you're replacing him with someone that is roughly the same, only now you have to adjust to the new philosophy.


I mean look at all of the coaches that might be on the chopping block this season? You sit around waiting for a head coach to get it, before you know it some of your stars contracts are up and they go to other teams the head coach's voice gets tiring and old, fans start to get more and more frustrated, and it becomes a snowball effect all around the place. I haven't forgotten what happened when Capers finally completely lost this team. Kubiak just doesn't seem to get it either. I think this team has the potential now to be a GREAT OFFENSE, but they need a better leader. They need a guy that has the balls to fire a terrible defensive coordinator as well.[/B]

So, who are you hiring? This isn't a binary decision. If you want to fire Kubiak, you better have someone lined up that is better than Kubiak.

HoustonFrog
11-07-2008, 01:16 PM
I'll make my statements short

1) Give him one more year and then evaluate

2) He does have trouble with clock management, making decisions on the fly...challenges, play calling...and in gettting a team prepared on the road. These are all things to watch.

HOU-TEX
11-07-2008, 01:32 PM
I think we should give him at least another year. I'd expect him to make some moves on the defensive side of the ball in the off-season. That would include the coaching staff and players.

I expect our first day picks (old school first day, 1-3) to be all defense. Any position on this side of the ball could use an upgrade, but I'd like to see LB, DE, DB.

I think the offense could use another RG, C and a RB to pair with Slaton. I expect D. Brown to have his shit together by next season. Speed around the edge completely kicks his ass.

In the end, Kubiaks career will go as Schaub and his decision on SmithDC goes.

My .02

Texan_Bill
11-07-2008, 01:42 PM
I think we should give him at least another year. I'd expect him to make some moves on the defensive side of the ball in the off-season. That would include the coaching staff and players.

I expect our first day picks (old school first day, 1-3) to be all defense. Any position on this side of the ball could use an upgrade, but I'd like to see LB, DE, DB.

I think the offense could use another RG, C and a RB to pair with Slaton. I expect D. Brown to have his shit together by next season. Speed around the edge completely kicks his ass.

In the end, Kubiaks career will go as Schaub and his decision on SmithDC goes.

My .02


.02 can't buy you much these days!! :shades: No, but I agree with everything you posted. Saved me some typing.

noxiousdog
11-07-2008, 01:46 PM
Just to add more background, only 12 of 32 active coaches have career winning records (minimum 50 games). Of those, Dungy, Belichick, Holmgren, and Shannahan, are tied to hall of fame quarterbacks. Not coincidently, they are 4 of the top 5 in winning percentage, and the other is Andy Reid, so you you'd have to debate the worth of Donovan McNabb.

The #6 guy in active career winning percentage is Wade Phillips.

The #8 guy is Jeff Fisher with a .554. That translates to 8.8 wins per season.

HOU-TEX
11-07-2008, 01:48 PM
.02 can't buy you much these days!! :shades: No, but I agree with everything you posted. Saved me some typing.

No, but if you asked my wife she'd say it'd be price-gouging paying .02 for one of my thoughts. :)

Porky
11-07-2008, 01:49 PM
I'm basically right in line with Wolf on this one. I selected to keep him another year, but I reserve the right to change my opinion based on the remaining 8 games and the very first part of the offseason.

First, let us praise the things he has done right. He realized after 1 season that Carr was never going to take this team anywhere and jettisoned him. He made a bold move to get the QB he thinks can lead this team to the promised land. He got rid of other dead weight with a losing mentatlity. His team constantly plays hard and seems to buy in to what he is trying to build. The team has consistently gotten more disciplined on the field, and is now one of the least penalized teams in the league. The TE, RB, and WR positions hold onto the ball and limit mistakes. He works well with the GM and picks players that fit what they are after, and the drafts under his regime have clearly been better than his predecessor. There seems to be a plan in place, and both Kubiak and the FO staff are onboard. His offensive game plans are generally good, and the team USUALLY seems well preprared.

Now for the not so good. His QB's have consistently had problems with ball security and decision making, and this perists week after week. His in game decision making is at times questionable, or even downright bizarre at times. He has trouble determining when to use such simple things as time outs, or when to throw the red flag, or when to run out the clock and when to press the pedal to the metal. His faith in the undeserving Richard Smith is a total failure of leadership and judgement. He is loyal to a fault. And the fact that he just turns the D over to Mr. Smith, who then proceeds to bungle things week after week shows a lack of leadership and knowledge of that side of the ball. He needs to do to Smith what he did to Carr - make a bold move and jettison him, and bring in someone who knows what the hell he is doing.

powerfuldragon
11-07-2008, 01:51 PM
the poll result speaks for itself.

BigWig
11-07-2008, 03:23 PM
Why not an undecided choice?
On NFL Truth and Rumours they have him on the hot seat depending on the rest of the season.

texanhead08
11-07-2008, 04:16 PM
We should expect more success than we have had the next few years. I think Kubiak deserves another year but he needs to make some changes on the defensive staff. Its obvious the week link of this team and that needs to be addressed. I will give him some benifit of the doubt because we are starting a rookie at left tackle and running back. I think improvement needs to happen next year or he could be out of here.


I also want to add the improvement to the offense since he has been coach is almost amazing to go from the worst offense in the league to one of the best in a pretty short time.

Its time for the defense to do the same. If defense is a problem next year after the changes to the staff are made then I expect heads to roll.

Drew_Smoke
11-07-2008, 04:26 PM
Holier than thou? How? Because I have my opinion and I made several examples to support it. Oh, but you disagree, so it's pathetic? Good luck believing your own drivel. I haven't insulted you or anyone for that matter. I just listed my view point, while you failed to do so and reverted into a Bold vs. regular font argument.

If you can't handle someone disagreeing with you then don't even bother posting. Message boards are for opinions. Go ahead and put me on ignore if the BOLD hurts so much to where you can't even carry on a civil discussion.

I am sure you have received as many PMs as I have laughing at me and egging you on. If you wanna PM, I'll play. I believe most of us here feel the same way about you. I ain't gonna let you hijack the thread.

I don't believe Mr. McNair only cares about making money. I do believe that Mark Cuban and Jerrah Jones are not the kind of owners I care for. Glad you like them. Congrats

Texecutioner
11-07-2008, 05:03 PM
I am sure you have received as many PMs as I have laughing at me and egging you on. If you wanna PM, I'll play. I believe most of us here feel the same way about you. I ain't gonna let you hijack the thread.

I don't believe Mr. McNair only cares about making money. I do believe that Mark Cuban and Jerrah Jones are not the kind of owners I care for. Glad you like them. Congrats

You want no bold, well here you go you little girl. Will that make you actually form a rebuttal instead of crying this entire time?

You haven't even been capable of defending your opinion. Not once in this thread. Don't accuse me of hijacking the thread when you attacked me and couldn't even form a rebuttal like some ignorant child.

Just because you're a homer that only watches the Texans and worships every move by Mcnair and Smith, don't expect to have your opinions to go unchallenged. I never said whether I was right or wrong about Kubiak, I just gave my opinion. You just couldn't handle it, and tried to act tough behind a key board.

And as far as Jerry Jones and Cuban goes, I can't stand either one of them. I just compared the two and mentioned that they have a stronger desire to win that Mcnair does. Anyone who watches and studies sports knows that. Different owners have different types of motivation. They all care about winning, but some do a lot more than others. Some just want to make money and if they can keep doing that without having to have a top team than they're fine with that. Other owners want to win at all costs and go crazy when they're not winning. Mcnair is more of a laid back middle of the pack kind of owner. I don't hardly know anyone that would argue that if they have followed the Texans as much as I have.

Tailgate
11-07-2008, 05:06 PM
ONE, this season is far from over.

TWO, this team is still being put together. DE, DT, MLB, S, RB, and interior O-linemen are still needed to complete the blueprint.

IlliniJen
11-07-2008, 05:12 PM
I voted "no."

I don't hate Kubes, but I have serious doubts about him as a HC. This team plays too soft, and the "stomp a mudhole in their ass and walk it dry" attitude needs to come from up top on down. This team isn't nasty enough. I don't want to hold onto Kubes too long and have another D.Carr on our hands -- someone we invest in a year or two longer than we should.

But I'm a realist and I know he'll be back next year.

J-Russ
11-07-2008, 05:17 PM
And Kubiak wins in a landslide... finally a Texans win something by a blowout.

Anywhoo, I agree we just need to severely upgrade the DC and we'll be fine. Any chance we can get Crennel? The Brown's fan are getting pretty sick of this guy, and he choked away the last two game after leading in the 4th.. so the GM/Owner might be getting sick of him as well.

IlliniJen
11-07-2008, 06:16 PM
And Kubiak wins in a landslide... finally a Texans win something by a blowout.

Anywhoo, I agree we just need to severely upgrade the DC and we'll be fine. Any chance we can get Crennel? The Brown's fan are getting pretty sick of this guy, and he choked away the last two game after leading in the 4th.. so the GM/Owner might be getting sick of him as well.

That would be like trading a down pillow in for a cotton pillow. The Browns are another soft team.

steelbtexan
11-07-2008, 10:58 PM
I think we should give him at least another year. I'd expect him to make some moves on the defensive side of the ball in the off-season. That would include the coaching staff and players.

I expect our first day picks (old school first day, 1-3) to be all defense. Any position on this side of the ball could use an upgrade, but I'd like to see LB, DE, DB.

I think the offense could use another RG, C and a RB to pair with Slaton. I expect D. Brown to have his shit together by next season. Speed around the edge completely kicks his ass.

In the end, Kubiaks career will go as Schaub and his decision on SmithDC goes.

My .02


Agrred

Short & to the point

Perfect

J-Russ
11-07-2008, 11:12 PM
That would be like trading a down pillow in for a cotton pillow. The Browns are another soft team.

Just like many other unsuccessful HC, he would be a better (defensive)coordinator then he is as a HC.

Lucky
11-07-2008, 11:22 PM
The Pittsburgh Steelers have had 3 coaches in their history. I'd rather go down that road than get a new coach every six years.
The Steelers have had 16 different head coaches in their 76 year history. Just 3 since 1969, however. But what came first, the chicken or the egg? Is having only 3 head coaches over the past 40 seasons what led the Steelers to 23 playoff berths, 5 Super Bowls championships, and only 10 losing records? Or is winning conducive to keeping the same head coach, year after year?

Just to add more background, only 12 of 32 active coaches have career winning records (minimum 50 games).
Only 6 active head coaches have career losing records (minimum 50 games). Crennel, Lewis, Turner, Edwards, Jauron, and Haslett. These guys either entered the season on the hot seat, or are feeling real toasty right about now.

Why not an undecided choice?

Why not, indeed. If the Texans go 8-0 in the 2nd half, Kubiak should be a lock to stay. 0-8, and he's run out of town on a rail. What's good enough to stay, or bad enough to boot out is what's difficult to determine at this point.

What's puzzling to me in reading this thread is the lack of accountability given to Kubiak for the Texans record. Kubiak hired the defensive coaching staff. Kubiak has kept the defensive coaching staff. And it's myopic to suggest that it is only the defense that has kept the Texans from being a contendor in 2008. Kubiak's indecisiveness has cost the Texans in games versus Tennessee, Jacksonville, Indianapolis, and last week in Minnesota. He's admitted to these errors. When Kubiak comes to the podium and places the losses on his shoulders, I'm agreeing with him.

Would you like to be Bob McNair, and try to sell season ticket holders on the same old, same old after a 7th consecutive losing season? That's a real tough sell. If that's the case, who could blame McNair for going in a new direction and acquiring a proven coaching commodity? If that's the case, I think a lot of the current Kubiak supporters would demand it.

GNTLEWOLF
11-07-2008, 11:58 PM
The Steelers have had 16 different head coaches in their 76 year history. Just 3 since 1969, however. But what came first, the chicken or the egg? Is having only 3 head coaches over the past 40 seasons what led the Steelers to 23 playoff berths, 5 Super Bowls championships, and only 10 losing records? Or is winning conducive to keeping the same head coach, year after year?


Only 6 active head coaches have career losing records (minimum 50 games). Crennel, Lewis, Turner, Edwards, Jauron, and Haslett. These guys either entered the season on the hot seat, or are feeling real toasty right about now.


Why not, indeed. If the Texans go 8-0 in the 2nd half, Kubiak should be a lock to stay. 0-8, and he's run out of town on a rail. What's good enough to stay, or bad enough to boot out is what's difficult to determine at this point.

What's puzzling to me in reading this thread is the lack of accountability given to Kubiak for the Texans record. Kubiak hired the defensive coaching staff. Kubiak has kept the defensive coaching staff. And it's myopic to suggest that it is only the defense that has kept the Texans from being a contendor in 2008. Kubiak's indecisiveness has cost the Texans in games versus Tennessee, Jacksonville, Indianapolis, and last week in Minnesota. He's admitted to these errors. When Kubiak comes to the podium and places the losses on his shoulders, I'm agreeing with him.

Would you like to be Bob McNair, and try to sell season ticket holders on the same old, same old after a 7th consecutive losing season? That's a real tough sell. If that's the case, who could blame McNair for going in a new direction and acquiring a proven coaching commodity? If that's the case, I think a lot of the current Kubiak supporters would demand it.

Well said! Rep to you!. Well thought out and logical....How could you?

threetoedpete
11-08-2008, 04:18 AM
The Pittsburgh Steelers have had 3 coaches in their history. I'd rather go down that road than get a new coach every six years.

You would hope after making the same mistakes over and over again...he'd learn.

I think grace is on her knees, praying. Hope has a one way ticket out of town just in case.

First thing the new HC is going to do is tear down the team once again. The only question Mr McNair has to answer is just exactly what would we loose doing that ? I mean how many five year building, rebuilding plans do you get for three quarters of a billion dollars ?

Specnatz
11-08-2008, 01:00 PM
The Steelers have had 16 different head coaches in their 76 year history. Just 3 since 1969, however. But what came first, the chicken or the egg? Is having only 3 head coaches over the past 40 seasons what led the Steelers to 23 playoff berths, 5 Super Bowls championships, and only 10 losing records? Or is winning conducive to keeping the same head coach, year after year?


Only 6 active head coaches have career losing records (minimum 50 games). Crennel, Lewis, Turner, Edwards, Jauron, and Haslett. These guys either entered the season on the hot seat, or are feeling real toasty right about now.


Why not, indeed. If the Texans go 8-0 in the 2nd half, Kubiak should be a lock to stay. 0-8, and he's run out of town on a rail. What's good enough to stay, or bad enough to boot out is what's difficult to determine at this point.

What's puzzling to me in reading this thread is the lack of accountability given to Kubiak for the Texans record. Kubiak hired the defensive coaching staff. Kubiak has kept the defensive coaching staff. And it's myopic to suggest that it is only the defense that has kept the Texans from being a contendor in 2008. Kubiak's indecisiveness has cost the Texans in games versus Tennessee, Jacksonville, Indianapolis, and last week in Minnesota. He's admitted to these errors. When Kubiak comes to the podium and places the losses on his shoulders, I'm agreeing with him.

Would you like to be Bob McNair, and try to sell season ticket holders on the same old, same old after a 7th consecutive losing season? That's a real tough sell. If that's the case, who could blame McNair for going in a new direction and acquiring a proven coaching commodity? If that's the case, I think a lot of the current Kubiak supporters would demand it.

I think you are misinterpreting the accountability thing. Kubiack's first year we had YKW at QB and also a lot of bad, very bad players on both sides of the ball. Rick Smith joined the team right before training camp of the first year so he is one draft behind where Kubiak is. This team and to basically rebuild almost the entire team, with pieces still to go. Bad contracts such as weaver and greenwood have not helped in that regards either.

In his first two years the team improved from where we were. Yes we have not a had a true winning season as of yet but we were 8-8 last year and that is not a losing record either. OMG he is human and makes mistakes, ya know all coaches do, Kubiack admits his and has learned from them which I would rather him do that then throw a player under the bus and say it was all on that player. Like last year in the Buffalo game that loss was soley on Faggins for letting not one 87 yard TD play but two in that game.

A tougher sell would be bringing in another Coach that is either a first time HC or a retread. Yeah retreads are always a great sell. If you want the coach gone, that is fine but please tell me someone that you would hire. Oh, and please name someone else besides Cowher, you have to have more than one option. The reason I ask this question is because you said a proven coaching commodity, and I can not think of anyone other than Cowher who is not a retread from a team that had a losing record and he was fired.

I already stated that I would like to keep Kubiak as long as the entire defensive coaching staff is fired.

CloakNNNdagger
11-08-2008, 02:31 PM
We've all had to deal with the basic rule of life--"Do the best you can with the hand you’re dealt"--at one time or another. Winston Churchill took it one step further........."It's no use saying, 'We are doing our best.' You have got to succeed in doing what is necessary."

I think many have a problem convincing themselves that Smith, let alone Kubiak, has done their best even while supposedly being "so limited by what they have"..........let alone succeeding in doing what is necessary.

At this point, Kubiak et al may be able to tell fans "Let them eat cake." But if there is no significant turnabout by the end of the season, I'll be one of those (as in the case of Marie Antoinette) yelling "Off with their heads.":cowboy1:

spurstexanstros
11-08-2008, 02:38 PM
I do not understand it every year hhe has had this team with a better record than the last. This year had some unusual circumstances. If he gets us back to 8-8 or 7-9. thats ok . The only way the francise will get better if there is consitancy at head coach. The last thing this fanbase needs is to start over again.

Lucky
11-08-2008, 02:40 PM
I think you are misinterpreting the accountability thing. Kubiak's first year we had YKW at QB and also a lot of bad, very bad players on both sides of the ball.
I'm not judging Kubiak's performance from '06. I'm discussing what Kubiak has done in 2008.

Rick Smith joined the team right before training camp of the first year so he is one draft behind where Kubiak is. This team and to basically rebuild almost the entire team, with pieces still to go. Bad contracts such as weaver and greenwood have not helped in that regards either.
The draft that Rick Smith missed produced Mario Williams, DeMeco Ryans, Eric Winston, and Owen Daniels. One Pro Bowler, and three players who should/could be. I don’t know how Rick Smith could have done any better. And if I’m giving Kubiak credit for the 2006 draft (and I am), he should also take the blame for some poor FA signings like Weaver, Moulds, Green, and Reeves.

OMG he is human and makes mistakes, ya know all coaches do, Kubiack admits his and has learned from them which I would rather him do that then throw a player under the bus and say it was all on that player. Like last year in the Buffalo game that loss was soley on Faggins for letting not one 87 yard TD play but two in that game.
But if you insist on judging Kubiak's earlier performance...1st, those TDs passes to Lee Evans were on the coaching staff. Not Petey Faggins. Petey is not capable of playing man coverage against a speed receiver like Evans, and should never have been put in that position. Some will scream, “That was Richard Smith’s fault!”. The first TD, maybe. But Kubiak has headphones on. He’s listening to the defensive signals. For him to allow Smith to leave Faggins in single coverage on the 2nd TD is all on Gary Kubiak. Wait, I take that back. The 1st TD pass was Kubiak’s fault, too. He knew and had OKed the defensive game plan going in. Kubiak, the offensive mastermind, should be aware that the opposition would take advantage of Faggins in that situation, and allow the defensive coordinator to make that call.

And is Gary Kubiak really learning from his mistakes? Not using his timeouts and challenges correctly has plagued the team in each of Kubiak’ seasons as coach. Not to mention, he continues to allow Richard Smith to coordinate the defense and set the defensive game plan. The decision to leave Matt Schaub in the game after a knee injury is still mind-boggling to me. This is Kubiak’s 3rd season. I’d prefer a 1st time head coach, if that coach had his team over achieving, as rookie head coaches Tony Sparano, Mike Smith, and John Harbaugh have. Regardless of what one might say of the Texans talent level, no one can accuse this team of overachieving.

It’s pointless to speculate who is or might be available as a head coach, now. Kubiak still has a chance, a very slim chance, of turning this team into a winner in 2008. And that’s what should drive the decision to keep Kubiak. Not who might or might not be available. The question was “Kubes…another year, or not?”. It’s too soon to say. But the question of letting Kubiak go is not out of the question.

TEXANRED
11-08-2008, 02:55 PM
I would can Kubiak. Its been three years and this is as good as he is gonna get.

He continues to mismanage the game, game decisions, and the clock.

He is unable to properly motivate the players that he has. Okam, Molden, Xavier, Amobi, just to name a few.

He is supposed to be a QB guru but has failed at getting more production from that position.

And I am sorry but this crap about just give him time does not hold water when you got the Bears that go 3-13 to 13-3 the next year, the Saints, The Dolphins, the Bills, The Ravens, The Falcons, all having crap records one year, make a coaching changes the next and now they are all in contention.

That and he wont fire Richard Smith. :foottap:

HJam72
11-08-2008, 06:27 PM
I would can Kubiak. Its been three years and this is as good as he is gonna get.

He continues to mismanage the game, game decisions, and the clock.

He is unable to properly motivate the players that he has. Okam, Molden, Xavier, Amobi, just to name a few.

He is supposed to be a QB guru but has failed at getting more production from that position.

And I am sorry but this crap about just give him time does not hold water when you got the Bears that go 3-13 to 13-3 the next year, the Saints, The Dolphins, the Bills, The Ravens, The Falcons, all having crap records one year, make a coaching changes the next and now they are all in contention.

That and he wont fire Richard Smith. :foottap:

In the offseason, McNair needs to do that, whether Kubiak likes it or not.

CloakNNNdagger
11-08-2008, 06:34 PM
JAMAL LEWIS: BROWNS NEED TO CHECK EGOS, FIND HEARTS
Posted by Michael David Smith on November 8, 2008, 5:20 p.m.

The Cleveland Browns have lost two straight games that they were in position to win in the fourth quarter, and running back Jamal Lewis says he hasn’t been impressed with his teammates in those two games.

“Some people need to check their egos at the door and find some heart to come out here and play hard,” Lewis said, per the News-Herald. “This is a man’s game. The way we went out and played two weeks in a row, finishing the same kind of way, it’s just not there. Some men around here need to check themselves. Straight up. That’s it.”

But while Lewis declined to name which teammates he was referring to, he wasn’t done when he said “That’s it.”

“It looked to me like some people called it quits when we were up,” Lewis continued. “You can’t do that. You have to finish. Denver’s back was to the wall just like ours is to the wall. But they came out and played good football. They were down. They kept their heads up, stayed poised and finished.

“This is as frustrated as I’ve been in however many years I’ve been playing. I’ve never seen anything like it. I’m not cut from this kind of cloth. I play physical football. I come out here and give it my all. I give it my all all week. This is the NFL. You can’t call it quits until the game is over.”

Browns head coach Romeo Crennel suggested that he agrees with Lewis.

“We have to look at everybody and see who’s not carrying their load and who’s not holding up their end of it,” Crennel said. “We have to see if we have other people available to try to motivate them.”

But if certain players aren’t carrying their load, isn’t it the coach’s job to motivate them? Comments like these don’t inspire much confidence in the head coach.

At first glance, you may ask why I posted this Browns piece under this section and thread. But it brings up some of the same scenarios and conclusions that can very easily be extrapolated to this team.

ObsiWan
11-08-2008, 06:58 PM
JAMAL LEWIS: BROWNS NEED TO CHECK EGOS, FIND HEARTS
Posted by Michael David Smith on November 8, 2008, 5:20 p.m.

The Cleveland Browns have lost two straight games that they were in position to win in the fourth quarter, and running back Jamal Lewis says he hasn’t been impressed with his teammates in those two games.

“Some people need to check their egos at the door and find some heart to come out here and play hard,” Lewis said, per the News-Herald. “This is a man’s game. The way we went out and played two weeks in a row, finishing the same kind of way, it’s just not there. Some men around here need to check themselves. Straight up. That’s it.”

But while Lewis declined to name which teammates he was referring to, he wasn’t done when he said “That’s it.”

“It looked to me like some people called it quits when we were up,” Lewis continued. “You can’t do that. You have to finish. Denver’s back was to the wall just like ours is to the wall. But they came out and played good football. They were down. They kept their heads up, stayed poised and finished.

“This is as frustrated as I’ve been in however many years I’ve been playing. I’ve never seen anything like it. I’m not cut from this kind of cloth. I play physical football. I come out here and give it my all. I give it my all all week. This is the NFL. You can’t call it quits until the game is over.”

Browns head coach Romeo Crennel suggested that he agrees with Lewis.

“We have to look at everybody and see who’s not carrying their load and who’s not holding up their end of it,” Crennel said. “We have to see if we have other people available to try to motivate them.”

But if certain players aren’t carrying their load, isn’t it the coach’s job to motivate them? Comments like these don’t inspire much confidence in the head coach.

At first glance, you may ask why I posted this Browns piece under this section and thread. But it brings up some of the same scenarios and conclusions that can very easily be extrapolated to this team.

No.
At the NFL level, the coach's job is to figure out what the opposition's weakness is and make a game plan that exploits it.
I will concede this: It is also the coach's job to figure out who can and cannot execute his game plan. Start the ones who can and bench (and ultimately replace) the ones who cannot.

Txn_in_Oki
11-08-2008, 09:59 PM
Keep the guy for crying out loud. At worst, the guy hitched his wagon to Carr and then to Schaub... I really want to like the guy, I do... but geez, a little durability and a few less turnovers would be nice.

We have seen improvement under Kubiak, while not at the pace I hoped for it's still improvement.

Someone needs firing and it's not Kubiak... at least not quite yet.

Mari-OWNED!
11-08-2008, 11:02 PM
So about 1 for every 10 Texans fans think we should fire Kubiak.

This poll looks very accurate.

b0ng
11-08-2008, 11:12 PM
So about 1 for every 10 Texans fans think we should fire Kubiak.

This poll looks very accurate.

It's also very possible that 1 in 10 Texans fans drink entirely too much beer before voting on an internet poll.

Or huff glue.

mexican_texan
11-09-2008, 12:01 AM
Let's look at it this way. Take a look at coaches hired when Kubiak was:

Buffalo Bills Mike Mularkey -- Dick Jauron

Good change, though the Bills looked fairly bad until they got a legit QB. I'd say we looked better than them until this year and I think we could beat them if we played tomorrow.

Detroit Lions Steve Mariucci Rod Marinelli

Needless to say, Kubiak did a far better job of turning a team around than Marinelli.

Green Bay Packers Mike Sherman -- Mike McCarthy

McCarthy inherited a much better team than Kubiak did, but McCarthy was actually able to build a line. Kubiak so far has had one effective change, Winston at RT. The Packers still have impact players that played under Sherman, all we have from Capers, on defense anyway, is Dunta.


Kansas City Chiefs Dick Vermeil Herm Edwards

Edwards, like McCarthy, inherited a good team, but has done nowhere near the job Kubiak has. The offense has gotten worse, they still have a problem at QB, and the defense still isn't respectable.


Minnesota Vikings Mike Tice Brad Childress

From bonehead to a guy that blames a loss on a punter. He inherited a much better team than Kubiak, and though the team has gotten better, he's shown he isn't the coach Kubiak is. Can you imagine Kubiak with that offense?

New Orleans Saints Jim Haslett Sean Payton

I didn't think Haslett should've been fired. He brought up the Saints to 8-8 with little talent. Katrina was to blame for that season, not Haslett. Payton had a nice, though not spectacular, group of players left over, but good work on the O-line and the signing of Drew Brees got the Saints to the NFC championship his first year, though the Saints seem to have regressed from that team. Their FA signings are less than successful. I blame Jason David.


New York Jets Herm Edwards -- Eric Mangini

Like Payton, he had a good first year and hasn't matched it yet. The defense is better, but the offense, in my opinion, isn't as good as it was under Herm. Favre isn't the guy he was just last year and the talent the offense has just isn't used to its potential. They should have an unstoppable offense right now. Anyone know what happened to D'Brickhouse?

Oakland Raiders Norv Turner Art Shell

ROFL. Kubiak was rumored to be the 2nd choice.

St. Louis Rams Mike Martz --- Scott Linehan

I'll say it. I was among the few that wanted Linehan over Kubiak. Thank God that didn't happen.

ObsiWan
11-09-2008, 05:19 AM
Let's look at it this way. Take a look at coaches hired when Kubiak was:

Buffalo Bills Mike Mularkey -- Dick Jauron
Good change, though the Bills looked fairly bad until they got a legit QB. I'd say we looked better than them until this year and I think we could beat them if we played tomorrow.

Detroit Lions Steve Mariucci Rod Marinelli
Needless to say, Kubiak did a far better job of turning a team around than Marinelli.

Green Bay Packers Mike Sherman -- Mike McCarthy
McCarthy inherited a much better team than Kubiak did, but McCarthy was actually able to build a line. Kubiak so far has had one effective change, Winston at RT. The Packers still have impact players that played under Sherman, all we have from Capers, on defense anyway, is Dunta.


Kansas City Chiefs Dick Vermeil Herm Edwards
Edwards, like McCarthy, inherited a good team, but has done nowhere near the job Kubiak has. The offense has gotten worse, they still have a problem at QB, and the defense still isn't respectable.


Minnesota Vikings Mike Tice Brad Childress
From bonehead to a guy that blames a loss on a punter. He inherited a much better team than Kubiak, and though the team has gotten better, he's shown he isn't the coach Kubiak is. Can you imagine Kubiak with that offense?

New Orleans Saints Jim Haslett Sean Payton
I didn't think Haslett should've been fired. He brought up the Saints to 8-8 with little talent. Katrina was to blame for that season, not Haslett. Payton had a nice, though not spectacular, group of players left over, but good work on the O-line and the signing of Drew Brees got the Saints to the NFC championship his first year, though the Saints seem to have regressed from that team. Their FA signings are less than successful. I blame Jason David.


New York Jets Herm Edwards -- Eric Mangini
Like Payton, he had a good first year and hasn't matched it yet. The defense is better, but the offense, in my opinion, isn't as good as it was under Herm. Favre isn't the guy he was just last year and the talent the offense has just isn't used to its potential. They should have an unstoppable offense right now. Anyone know what happened to D'Brickhouse?

Oakland Raiders Norv Turner Art Shell
ROFL. Kubiak was rumored to be the 2nd choice.

St. Louis Rams Mike Martz --- Scott Linehan
I'll say it. I was among the few that wanted Linehan over Kubiak. Thank God that didn't happen.

Good post. None of the guys who had as bad a cast of players as we had has done any better over the same time period. This points to the fact that it takes time to make a silk purse out of the sow's ear that Capers and Casserly left here. For my money he's earned more time since Kubiak's done better that some of the coaches that had more to work with (like the Vikes & Jets), coming in, than he did.

Malloy
11-09-2008, 10:21 AM
It's also very possible that 1 in 10 Texans fans drink entirely too much beer before voting on an internet poll.

Or huff glue.

Some would argue that 9 out of 10 Texan fans drink too much before posting :)

TheRealJoker
11-09-2008, 10:26 AM
All of our coaching strength is on the offensive side of the ball. That's why they are top 5 and the defense is...not

Lets go ahead and replace our DC with someone who knows how to run an NFL defense before we throw the HC under the bus. Get someone in here that Kubiak can actually say, "You handle the defense, i'll stay out of your way and help run the offense."

Guys I think might fit well here as a quality DC who are likely to be available are Marvin Lewis (Bengals HC and architect of the Ravens Super bowl defense) and Rod Marinelli (Lions HC and former DL coach on Bucs staff under the godfather of tampa 2 Monte Kiffin) for starters.

Lucky
11-09-2008, 05:07 PM
Guys I think might fit well here as a quality DC who are likely to be available are Marvin Lewis (Bengals HC and architect of the Ravens Super bowl defense) and Rod Marinelli (Lions HC and former DL coach on Bucs staff under the godfather of tampa 2 Monte Kiffin) for starters.
Give me Ray Lewis in his prime, and I can be the architect of a Super Bowl defense. In Marvin Lewis' 6 seasons as Bengals head coach, the Bengals have ranked 28th, 19th, 28th, 30th, 27th, 26th in defense. He has a bigger name than Richard Smith, but not better defenses. Rod Marinelli hasn't been a defensive coordinator since 1975 at Rosemead H.S. in LA.

I don't want a head coach who will "stay out of the way". I want a head coach who is in command of every phase of the game. Who is accountable and doesn't pass the buck. I want a leader. I want a winner. Now ask yourself, "Does Gary Kubiak fit that description?"

Vinny
11-09-2008, 05:10 PM
Give me Ray Lewis in his prime, and I can be the architect of a Super Bowl defense. In Marvin Lewis' 6 seasons as Bengals head coach, the Bengals have ranked 28th, 19th, 28th, 30th, 27th, 26th in defense. He has a bigger name than Richard Smith, but not better defenses. Rod Marinelli hasn't been a defensive coordinator since 1975 at Rosemead H.S. in LA.

I don't want a head coach who will "stay out of the way". I want a head coach who is in command of every phase of the game. Who is accountable and doesn't pass the buck. I want a leader. I want a winner. Now ask yourself, "Does Gary Kubiak fit that description?"He's gonna have to check the game tape for that and get back with you.

Texans Pride
11-09-2008, 05:53 PM
I specifically waited till the end of this game to answer this poll question.

I've seen enough, can him and his staff.

I believe in Kubes and an offensive coordinator, but not as a head coach.

awtysst
11-09-2008, 05:56 PM
Now ask yourself, "Does Gary Kubiak fit that description?"

Gary Kubiak around the refs
http://images.chron.com/blogs/fanblogtexans/Kubiak.JPG


Gary Kubiak around the players
http://i.cdn.turner.com/sivault/image/2007/09/16/op0-848.jpg

mexican_texan
11-09-2008, 11:04 PM
Give me Ray Lewis in his prime, and I can be the architect of a Super Bowl defense. In Marvin Lewis' 6 seasons as Bengals head coach, the Bengals have ranked 28th, 19th, 28th, 30th, 27th, 26th in defense. He has a bigger name than Richard Smith, but not better defenses. Rod Marinelli hasn't been a defensive coordinator since 1975 at Rosemead H.S. in LA.

I don't want a head coach who will "stay out of the way". I want a head coach who is in command of every phase of the game. Who is accountable and doesn't pass the buck. I want a leader. I want a winner. Now ask yourself, "Does Gary Kubiak fit that description?"
To be fair to Lewis, the Bengals have less scouts than any other team, resulting in poor drafting and FA pickups.