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fresno8
01-02-2005, 03:49 PM
I'm so sick of people saying give the line time. We've drafted guys and signed guys. People say we switched to the zone blocking give them time. It's been a year now and in the last game the line was the worst it's been all year and one of the worst perfromances in franchise history. Absolutely unacceptable. This line is pathetic at pass blocking and mediocre run blocking. Davis made every yard today (and alot of them in JAX). He always had to get away from someone behind the line of scrimmage to get his yards. Anyone who says they need time is full of it and is kidding themselves. Changes need to be made on this line, it's killing the growth of our 3 great young players. DD has won me over and I've always been sold on AJ and Carr
(Even the QB's on the worst teams have more time than Carr)

Line
year 1 76 sacks
year 2 36 sacks
year 3 49 & counting
This isn't good progress, it's unacceptable

D.Carr
2002 16 16 444 233 52.5 2592 5.84 81 9 15 76/411 31 5 62.8
2003 12 11 295 167 56.6 2013 6.82 78 9 13 15/90 22 5 69.5
2004 15 15 441 270 61.2 3417 7.75 69 15 14 43/273 47 6 83.5
Good progress

D.Davis
2003 Houston Texans 14 10 238 1031 4.3 51 8 5 47
2004 Houston Texans 14 14 285 1085 3.8 44 12 5 50
Good progress

A.Johnson
2003 Houston Texans 16 16 66 976 14.8 46 4 14 4 45
2004 Houston Texans 15 15 77 1129 14.7 54 6 18 3 53
Good progress

supertankman
01-02-2005, 04:05 PM
I could not agree more!!! Sucs ***

Texans Pride
01-02-2005, 04:12 PM
I think we have stunted the growth of David Carr due to the offensive line. We threw him into the starting line up his first year and he hit the ground 76 time. The last two years have been better, but still no where it needs to be.

I think Carr being thrown around so much has made him uncomfortable in the pocket (the theoretical pocket anyway), he rushes his decisions, and doesn't let the play develop (when he actually has time for it to develop.

They always say putting a QB in as a rookie is either a hit or a miss, I believe is has caused some irreversible damage, and it is a miss.

Wolf
01-02-2005, 04:12 PM
I am curious to see how Wand fared his rookie season compared to Pitts' rookie season at LT..

just wondering if there is anything statwise anywhere.(sacks given up,penalties,pancakes etc.)

fresno8
01-02-2005, 04:14 PM
glad you guys agree, some people around here think all the line needs is time. Maybe today will have changed their minds. I try to stay positive, but the line is just to frustrating for me to stay positive about. Once we have a solid line we will be very good. Carr showed his courage and toughness today and DD showed he can be elusive and powerful. The overall grades for the year on offense are

QB: B needs more consistent leadership, better audibles, touch on short pass
RB: B slow start, got healthy looked good, needs to improve durability, (Wells solid back up), Davis improved fumble problems as year went on.
WR: A for AJ, B- for rest of the group. Need another playmaker, Gaffney, Armstrong are solid in slots.
TE: C-, no dominant blocker or receiving threat, need an upgrade here, or healthy Joppru
OL- F, worst in the league, needs help.

edo783
01-02-2005, 04:16 PM
I am curious to see how Wand fared his rookie season compared to Pitts' rookie season at LT..

just wondering if there is anything statwise anywhere.(sacks given up,penalties,pancakes etc.)

Someone posted it a few days ago. Up to this game he gave up fewer sacks (15 v 11 I think) and a LOT fewer penalties (15+ v 4 if I remember correctly).

fresno8
01-02-2005, 04:19 PM
Texans Pride, the coaches might get us into the playoffs but never will win a game in the playoffs if they don't chamge or be replaced and the line flat out sucks. Carr has been freak'n abused. I hope he can recover because he can be great. And yes Carr needs to pull the trigger just to hope to make things happen

Vinny
01-02-2005, 04:21 PM
We changed 4 of the 6 line positions coming into this year. Don't look for wholesale changes.

edo783
01-02-2005, 04:26 PM
glad you guys agree, some people around here think all the line needs is time. Maybe today will have changed their minds. I try to stay positive, but the line is just to frustrating for me to stay positive about. Once we have a solid line we will be very good. Carr showed his courage and toughness today and DD showed he can be elusive and powerful. The overall grades for the year on offense are

QB: B needs more consistent leadership, better audibles, touch on short pass
RB: B slow start, got healthy looked good, needs to improve durability, (Wells solid back up), Davis improved fumble problems as year went on.
WR: A for AJ, B- for rest of the group. Need another playmaker, Gaffney, Armstrong are solid in slots.
TE: C-, no dominant blocker or receiving threat, need an upgrade here, or healthy Joppru
OL- F, worst in the league, needs help.


I am not sure the TE's get a C-. A "D -, maybe. QB, started out a solid "A" and wound up the later half of the season a "C" at best. All the sacks have taken a SERIOUSE toll on Carr's mental game. If we can get him SOLID protection right away next year and maintain it, he may wind up being "OK" in the future, if not, I suspect we have ruined a good QB. DD will be a solid RB and good overall producer, just not sure we can reasonably expect him to play 16 games. However, at over 220 pound, he is NOT a small back, just shorter than some.

fresno8
01-02-2005, 04:31 PM
We changed 4 of the 6 line positions coming into this year. Don't look for wholesale changes.

I know there probably won't be wholesale changes, but they suck, maybe our scouts and GM's have made some mistakes. There has got to be some changes made. 50 sacks, even if you cut that in half next year that's still not great. Favre has been sacked 14 times this year. While I'd love to see them at 25 sacks next year it's not likely w/ the personel we have. Carr is being ruined one sack/ or hit at a time.

Lucky
01-02-2005, 04:42 PM
...Don't look for wholesale changes.
I'll be surprised if the Texans don't have 3 new starters on the O-line next year, counting the TE position.

Wait, replace "surprised" with "disappointed".

AndreJ
01-02-2005, 04:45 PM
I'll be surprised if the Texans don't have 3 new starters on the O-line next year, counting the TE position.

Wait, replace "surprised" with "disappointed".

As much as I would like to see it I don't think our O-Line is going to change at all. I think the coaches are going to try and work with who they have and try to improve.

Vinny
01-02-2005, 04:46 PM
I'll be surprised if the Texans don't have 3 new starters on the O-line next year, counting the TE position.

Wait, replace "surprised" with "disappointed".I seriously doubt that we replace 3 of the 5. I can see one or perhaps two at the most....but the majority? No way. Not going to happen.

Blake
01-02-2005, 04:46 PM
I place some blame on the line. I place some blame on Carr. I think he holds on to the ball too long. Snap, drop back, look, fire. I dont care if you fire out of bounds because nobody was open. Just get the ball out of your hands.

fresno8
01-02-2005, 04:53 PM
There's no way we replace 3 of 5, but some talent still needs to be brought in to either groom or push the guys ahead of them, or replace them. I'm a huge Carr fan, but he does have tendencies to hold onto the ball to long, he has a strong enough arm to chuck it deep and out of bounds instead of taking a sack. However many times he's being hit while he's dropping back.

BWPaint
01-02-2005, 05:08 PM
Earlier this week I posted about the OLine....and GOT HAMMERED!

Now what do you have to say?

CLEVELAND ATE US ALIVE...my GOD People!!!!

That had to be the worst NFL *** whipping I have seen since Cincinnati beat our brains in. And for those that want respect from the media...you can forget it now...

This OLine is an embarrasement!!!

If something is not done we will be stuck in Oiler land forever...

For all you that hammered me earlier this week, stats mean nothing, waiting to grow means nothing.....this issue has been around since the frist draft and NOTHING!!!!

I rest MY CASE! this line is HORRIBLE...all the way across it, not just the left side...but across it!!!

Hervoyel
01-02-2005, 05:08 PM
The line will be given time. That's not something any of us can affect and I believe at least that it's something that must happen. They have played poorly this season. You won't get many people saying otherwise and I think it's safe to say that anyone who claims the line played well this year doesn't know what they're looking at.

It doesn't change anything though. They'll still get time and they still should get time. The individual players are NFL caliber linemen. None of them (even my own personal complaint generator Steve McKinney) are sub-par players. There are no journeyman linemen starting for us this season (I hold that McKinney is bottom of the barrel as a center but he's still in the barrel technically).

The line's duties can be broken down into two distinct phases. We're all familiar with those. Pass protection and run blocking are what I'm talking about. Elements of one of those have no effect on the other, while some elements do effect the other.

In run blocking I cannot find a reason to say that they have not improved. They aren't where they need to be, or where they will be given more time but the running game has improved over the last half of the season. I had hoped it would improve sooner but it didn't. Obviously the change is more complex than I had assumed. Over the last half though our team has run the ball more effectively.

Pass protection has of course been a step backwards from 2003. Much like the improvement of the run blocking over the second half of the season nobody can deny that the pass protection has been poor this year. The numbers do not lie and we've seen the pressure that David Carr has been facing. It's non-stop and comes even when we are running the ball well. Other teams know they can get to our quarterback regardless of the situation and they also know that they don't need to bring help to do it.

I suspect that there were simply too many changes to our line this season for the players to digest. New players, new positions, and a new running scheme all combined to make them less effective.

Seth Wand, first time starter at what is almost universally regarded as the most important position on the line. Add to that the fact that he's playing next to a guy playing guard for the first time in his life and that everything he learned about run blocking in his rookie year went out the window.

Chester Pitts, first season to ever play guard in his life after making a pretty reasonable adjustment to playing LT in the NFL. Add to that the fact that he's playing next to a first time starter on his left and Steve McKinney on his right. Also everthing Chester Pitts learned about run blocking on this team went out the window.

Steve McKinney, On top of being Steve McKinney he was playing with a new person on his left again and of course like everyone else he started new with the run blocking scheme.

Zack Weigert, playing with Steve McKinney on his left and a new person on his right and learning a new run blocking scheme.

Todd Wade, New to the team and like everybody else learning the new run blocking scheme while also fighting injuries this season.

Making this many changes at one time is the culprit here. Most teams in most years are at worst adding a new lineman to a group that's already worked together in a system for some time. Usually the new player is coming in to a system he's been a backup in. When we brought Brown in to play for Weigert or when we brought Spears in to cover Wade's spot they were guys who were learning the system just like the starters around them.

They need more time. McKinney of course needs to go back to guard and in his place we need a center who can hold the middle but overall they need time. That's it. You can get as mad as you wish about it guys but it's all about time right now and the Texans are going to give it to them as they should.

Lucky
01-02-2005, 05:08 PM
...I think the coaches are going to try and work with who they have and try to improve.
What's the likelihood of McKinney (entering his 8th season) and Wiegert (entering his 11th season) improving by next season? They're as "good" as they're going to get. Pitts was in his 1st season as a guard, but he still has problems with the faster DTs. After 3 seasons, stunts remain a mystery to Chester. The case can be made that Wand can take the next step as a LT. His run blocking certainly improved by the last part of the season. Of course if Wand doesn't make substantial progress as a pass protector, that's another year wasted without a LT the Texans can count on.

I know it's a "progress". I know the Texans, as a whole, have improved. But right now, the Texans are putting out a bad product. And that will continue until this O-line gets fixed.

Anishin
01-02-2005, 05:19 PM
The O line does seem to have regressed, last year they seemed to really be pulling it together at times.

fresno8
01-02-2005, 06:15 PM
There's no excuse for this line. I have never seen a line this bad at any level. Just think if Drew Bledsoe were the quarter back he would have been sacked 80 times this year and close to 100 in year one. Carr has great escape abilities and has saved the line from further embarassment. Not only that when he does throw he gets killed. If I were Carr I would never want to speak to those guys. McKinney and Weigert are getting old and are average at best, Wade is average and I don't know what to think of Pitts and Wand I hope they improve, but I just don't see it they're below average. This whole give it time does nothing for the present, they're ruining Carr and are a freak'n embarrassment and no one can change my mind about it.

Ibar_Harry
01-03-2005, 02:18 PM
We changed 4 of the 6 line positions coming into this year. Don't look for wholesale changes.

Yea, Vinny, but not the right ones. As long as this team is coached by this group of coaches the Texans are going nowhere. They have had enough time to improve this ball club. The ball club has improved despite the coaching. Other ball clubs have linemen go down and seem to have an ability to replace them, but not us. Why hasn't a young man like Brown made any improvement? Why does McKinny remain at Center? The answer has to do with the coaching and style of coaching. I'm sorry, but the ansers are so obvious. No I did not watch the game yesterday, because I had other things to do, but the results did not surprise me since the Browns QB was going to be Holcumb. Certainly loosing Payne did not help, but our defense has been vulnerable when the other team has had a protected good passing QB. Certainly the loss of Peek probably also contributed to the problems of this team. However, I will point out how long did it take for the coaches to realize that Peek might help the cause of the ball club. This coaching staff is at best a mediocre one and that has stunted the growth of DD, AJ and Carr. Yes, AJ has made the pro bowl, but its not because of the coaching he got in Houston. When you take as your number 1 pick a top caliber QB and then never retain a line to protect him, there's some wrong somewhere. Carr is not the kind of guy to complain, but I listen to his interviews and read between the lines. I don't think he is a happy camper, but he's preaching the company line. Sorry, but Carr will never be anything, but average or less than average with this coaching staff.................................

TEXANS84
01-03-2005, 02:21 PM
The whole left side needs to be re-worked.

David looks like a person that lives a nightmare snap to snap. You can almost see him worrying everytime he gets the ball.

wags
01-03-2005, 02:54 PM
Major improvements need to be made to the inside of the line. The guys inside have no clue how to pass protect.

MojoX
01-03-2005, 02:57 PM
Yea, Vinny, but not the right ones. As long as this team is coached by this group of coaches the Texans are going nowhere. They have had enough time to improve this ball club.
You do realize this is year 3 of an expansion team, don't you? They started this team from scratch. This team has come a long way in 3 years.
The ball club has improved despite the coaching. Other ball clubs have linemen go down and seem to have an ability to replace them, but not us.
Uh... 3rd year of an expansion team. They would have had to hit on every pick they've made and won over every free agent they've pursued to have the talent to withstand injuries. Heck, most NFL teams don't have the ability to withstand injuries at key positions. Not every team is the New England Patriots -- and the Texans haven't quite had the time (or drafts) to become them.
Why hasn't a young man like Brown made any improvement? Why does McKinny remain at Center? The answer has to do with the coaching and style of coaching. I'm sorry, but the ansers are so obvious.
Or maybe McKinney is just the best available option?
No I did not watch the game yesterday, because I had other things to do, but the results did not surprise me since the Browns QB was going to be Holcumb. Certainly loosing Payne did not help, but our defense has been vulnerable when the other team has had a protected good passing QB. Certainly the loss of Peek probably also contributed to the problems of this team. However, I will point out how long did it take for the coaches to realize that Peek might help the cause of the ball club.
This staff knew Peek could help the team. That is why they supported drafting him. It has just taken Peek a while to get discipline his motor so he can be a full time player -- in other words, get his emotions under control so he can juggle his pass rushing, run stopping and pass coverage responsibilites versus what he currently does which is handle one responsibility at a time in specific situations. This was Peek's 2nd season. He is still learning to be a linebacker. I personally feel the situation with Peek not playing every down is a combination of Peek not yet being ready for full time duty and the staff giving Wong a shot at ROLB before the team kicks Wong to the curb or permanently moves him inside. Don't worry, the coaching staff is bringing him along. And it looks like Wong is gonna be the one who pays the price.
This coaching staff is at best a mediocre one and that has stunted the growth of DD, AJ and Carr. Yes, AJ has made the pro bowl, but its not because of the coaching he got in Houston. When you take as your number 1 pick a top caliber QB and then never retain a line to protect him, there's some wrong somewhere. Carr is not the kind of guy to complain, but I listen to his interviews and read between the lines. I don't think he is a happy camper, but he's preaching the company line. Sorry, but Carr will never be anything, but average or less than average with this coaching staff.................................
Again, the team just completed year 3 of their existence. Look at the Cleveland Browns. That is what an inept front office and coaching staff produces. This is not an inept group. Yes, the team has been frustratingly inconsistent and the line play has been horrendous. If the team doesn't make moves to address that this offseason, then you have valid criticism. For now, this is all too premature. Let's see what they do with the 3rd draft in franchise history before we start lopping off heads left and right.

Next season, IMO, is the big test. On offense: 4th year for Carr. AJ should be experienced enough to be put in motion, sent across the field and even play the slot from time to time. Bradford is gone, but Gaffney and Armstrong will take his place. Wand is in 2nd year. Pitts just completed his first year at the position he was drafted to play. Wade just had his first year with the new guys. Hopefully, the second year in the zone scheme will help the Oline. More hopefully, Pendry's second year as the guard and center coach will produce better results than his first year did. Moreover, other than chemistry on the Oline, I think an all-around TE will help this team more than any of us can imagine (assuming Carr will throw him the ball). A big strong TE who can block and catch will do both Carr and DD good.

On defense: Smith is in his second year in the system. Babin has the first year down and should break out since he has learned the system on the fly. Earl has been broken in. Robinson is Robinson. The big concern here is that guys are getting old, especially on the Dline, and we need a youngster to develop at ILB next to Sharper -- someone Sharper can tutor and bring along.

The challenge: While the defense needs an infusion of youth in the front seven and a young, bonafied pass rushing, playmaking, linebacking freak; the Oline and TE positions could use serious help, too. And free agency doesn't cure all ills.

I'm not worried, though. Its been fun watching this team grow. The Oline may improve from year 3 to 4 as tehy did from year 1 to 2. That would be excellent. I just hope that, after 3 years of poundings, David Carr isn't broken.

KrazyTexanFan
01-03-2005, 03:44 PM
I think the coaching staff gets ready for the game day with the thought in mind of a young team. Looking at the strengths of the other team and plays that would focus on the weakness of the opponent. They do not practice anything but. So when it fails they have nothing to fall on their whole plan has failed. You know I have heard of this before and it always gets my goat to hear Capers giving them a day off after a good game. Come on that is what they are suppose to do. The coaches need to wake up. Its not the players or talent. Its the need to let them free. Let loose and let the team get the confidence they need. Also Capers try not to look so lost on the side line when something goes wrong. Your on T.V. so close your mouth and dont pull your pants so high up to your chest. How about a little aggression to fire things up a little. :hairpull:

fresno8
01-03-2005, 04:17 PM
You do realize this is year 3 of an expansion team
I'm not worried, though. Its been fun watching this team grow. The Oline may improve from year 3 to 4 as tehy did from year 1 to 2. That would be excellent. I just hope that, after 3 years of poundings, David Carr isn't broken.
I do realize this is only our third year. I think lots of people were expecting better. I was glad we won 7 games (a littl eupset we didn't get to 8 we should have). The three year plan is for a coach coming into a team that has been around for a while (like mariucchi in Detroit). An expansion team is expected to be more consistent year 3, But year 4 is the year for expansion ball clubs. Personally I think and have said next year will be the year. I did really enjoy watching this team even though they were inconsistent. However the O-line regressed terribly and I'm very worried about that, we have had time to find some decent lineman and it hasn't worked out. Hopefully this year it will be addressed. I too hope Carr is not broken this guy can be something special if he's not damaged.

block4carrmore
01-09-2005, 03:56 PM
What team are you people watching? The Texans offensive line has been like a seive all season. Carr had linebackers in his face all season. Even Dominick Davis got lousy blocking. Ask yourselves this question. Would you trust that offensive line to protect your girlfriend? I sure wouldn't.

nunusguy
01-09-2005, 04:57 PM
I'll be surprised if the Texans don't have 3 new starters on the O-line next year, counting the TE position.

Wait, replace "surprised" with "disappointed".
So you're saying TE(neither Miller or Breuner starts), and C (McKinney) and who would the third player be ?

Lucky
01-09-2005, 06:25 PM
So you're saying TE(neither Miller or Breuner starts), and C (McKinney) and who would the third player be ?
I think Wiegert & Wand are also on the hot seat. Both will be challenged in training camp.

Errant Hothy
01-09-2005, 06:29 PM
Wand played better then Pitts did his first season, and since they didn't bring anyone in to challenge him (pitts) why would they cahallenge Wand. IMO there is only one OT that might challenge for a starting spot here, that's D'Brickashaw (great football name) Fergueson; and either he won't declare or will be gone by the time we pick.

Lucky
01-09-2005, 06:46 PM
Wand played better then Pitts did his first season, and since they didn't bring anyone in to challenge him (pitts) why would they cahallenge Wand.
Well, I hate to bring up an old wound. But, Boselli worked at LT during mini camp in '03 and Pitts was at RT. When Tony retired just prior to training camp, Pitts went back to LT. Had the Texans known Boselli couldn't make it back, they would've tried to bring in another LT.

Pitts was credited with 15.5 sacks allowed his rookie season. Wand allowed 12.5 sacks this season. Better? Maybe, but not good enough to go unchallenged into camp. Pitts made improvement in his 2nd year at LT. So could Wand, but I don't think the Texans will go into the offseason just assuming he will.

Errant Hothy
01-09-2005, 06:54 PM
The fact remains that the team didn't brign anybody in to cahllenge Pitts after his first year at LT (Boselli was still a question mark, but the didn't even have a back-up challenger to Pitts. And nobody was a 100% sure Boselli was good to go; In fact most were sure he wasn't good to go)

But I'll ask again who do you get, either FA or draft, that will challenge Wand? Saying that the team has to do something drastic, but then havinf no idea as to waht they should do is a bit unfair.

Vinny
01-09-2005, 07:23 PM
The fact remains that the team didn't brign anybody in to cahllenge Pitts after his first year at LT (Boselli was still a question mark, but the didn't even have a back-up challenger to Pitts. And nobody was a 100% sure Boselli was good to go; In fact most were sure he wasn't good to go)

But I'll ask again who do you get, either FA or draft, that will challenge Wand? Saying that the team has to do something drastic, but then havinf no idea as to waht they should do is a bit unfair.You are not going to sign a proven Tackle for a lot of money and not start him. You either feel good about Wand's development or you bring somebody in to replace him (or at least feel that he is good enough to replace him based on your evaulation). Other than sign a high priced Tackle the Texans have brought in many bodies over the years and tried them out. They gave the highest signing bonuses to undrafted FA's the last two years running to guys with potential on the O line. Brad Lekkerkerker received the highest signing bonuses of any undrafted free agent last season and he didn't make the team. There are only a few available roster spots and our back up LT is Chester Pitts.

Lucky
01-09-2005, 07:25 PM
...In fact most were sure he wasn't good to go)...
Like I said, I'd rather not re-live the Boselli affair. But, Tony re-worked his deal in the offseason & received a roster bonus. Participated in full drills in the May mini camps. And Pitts worked at RT. I don't see why the Texans would waste the time & money on Boselli, if they knew for a "fact" that Boselli couldn't go. What is a fact is that the Texans never drafted Pitts to play LT, and he was always a stop gap.

I could speculate on what direction the Texans might go in looking for LT competition. But since the season isn't over, I don't know who will be franchised or not, who will be released in salary cap dumps, what underclassmen are coming out, who might be available when the Texans select, or even if they move up or down in the draft order.

When some of these events are closer, I might take a guess. What I am predicting is that the Texans aren't just going to sit back and hope that Wand gets better. That doesn't mean I think they've given up on Seth, just that there's no more room for guesswork.

Errant Hothy
01-09-2005, 07:48 PM
Like I said, I'd rather not re-live the Boselli affair. But, Tony re-worked his deal in the offseason & received a roster bonus. Participated in full drills in the May mini camps. And Pitts worked at RT. I don't see why the Texans would waste the time & money on Boselli, if they knew for a "fact" that Boselli couldn't go. What is a fact is that the Texans never drafted Pitts to play LT, and he was always a stop gap.

I was always under the impression that Tony reworking his deal saved the team money, because both parties knew that it was no or never for him to return? And I know that Pitts was brought into play LG intial, but I also thought he performed quite well given the situation. And if we're going to upgrade the O-line I can think of two positions I'm more worried about then LT; C and RT respectivly.

I quess I'm in the minority for seeing some progress/potential in Wand. Running to the left was this team's best option last year, he played decently in pass protection (all rookie/young first time starters get abused by the better DEs) and has the best footwork of all the O-line.

But then again, maybe this is all just me.

nunusguy
01-09-2005, 08:03 PM
Yea, with McNair saying on a post season TV appearance that they are going to get Carr some protection following a very sour performance by the Oline to protect DC, I guess Todd Wade is the only guy who's job is probably secure. If Carr doesn't have time to pass the ball to AJ, that takes McNair's 2 biggest investments not contributing to the Offense as intended. And after all, the Chargers just made it to the playoffs with an Oline that included 3 guys that wern't even on the team beffore this year (1 FA & 2 rookies), so the Texans should be able to shake things up on the Oline in the offseason and still have a successful '05 season if the Chargers can.

aj.
01-09-2005, 08:08 PM
Boselli agreed to a restructure in February 2003 that lowered his cap number by $3.85 million. He was scheduled to earn a $4.5 million base for '03 but they adjusted his base down to a veteran minimum of 650k and added a boatload of incentives which were never realized. He received a $2 million roster bonus in March '03. Before the restructure, Boselli's number was going to be over 9 million. I forget the exact amount but the Texans took his entire cap hit in '03 when he was released. I think it was somewhere in the 'hood of 6 mill.

As far as our OL, I'd like to see a couple of young bucks drafted to push guys like McKinney and Wiegert. I'm not sure Milford will ever be a full time starter, Washington is a career backup and Weary is missing in action. I think Wand will be better next year and Pitts has been one of our most consistent (good and versatile) OLs since Day 1. It's not all talent, or lack of. The coaches need to put these guys in situations where they can succeed. Protection for Carr and a pass rush our the two most glaring needs for next season.

trijcomm
01-09-2005, 10:50 PM
I'm so sick of people saying give the line time. We've drafted guys and signed guys. People say we switched to the zone blocking give them time. It's been a year now and in the last game the line was the worst it's been all year and one of the worst perfromances in franchise history. Absolutely unacceptable. This line is pathetic at pass blocking and mediocre run blocking. Davis made every yard today (and alot of them in JAX). He always had to get away from someone behind the line of scrimmage to get his yards. Anyone who says they need time is full of it and is kidding themselves. Changes need to be made on this line, it's killing the growth of our 3 great young players. DD has won me over and I've always been sold on AJ and Carr
(Even the QB's on the worst teams have more time than Carr)

Line
year 1 76 sacks
year 2 36 sacks
year 3 49 & counting
This isn't good progress, it's unacceptable

D.Carr
2002 16 16 444 233 52.5 2592 5.84 81 9 15 76/411 31 5 62.8
2003 12 11 295 167 56.6 2013 6.82 78 9 13 15/90 22 5 69.5
2004 15 15 441 270 61.2 3417 7.75 69 15 14 43/273 47 6 83.5
Good progress

D.Davis
2003 Houston Texans 14 10 238 1031 4.3 51 8 5 47
2004 Houston Texans 14 14 285 1085 3.8 44 12 5 50
Good progress

A.Johnson
2003 Houston Texans 16 16 66 976 14.8 46 4 14 4 45
2004 Houston Texans 15 15 77 1129 14.7 54 6 18 3 53
Good progress

Yes, the line is pathetic. But who's to blame? Who's blowing the assignments? You certainly don't know -- only the coaches do. And the offensive line coach might be the real culprit since it's his job to get these guys to work together. It's obvious there is a huge, huge problem here. The only problem is -- what do you fix? If the problem is an individual or individuals, then it is the coach's job to find it out. If it's a problem with the offensive line coach and you get rid of an individual, you've made the wrong fix and it will take another period of time for those folks to learn to work together. The offensive line is the toughest thing to fix since there's so many folks involved and so much to take into account.

THE_HONKEY_TONK_KID
01-09-2005, 11:17 PM
I was watching the NFL Today today, and they were talking about the Colts defense and how much they have changed over the season. And of course when they were talking about them they should highlights, and I think about half of those highlights was Carr getting sacked by one of the Colts. Now doesn't that tell you something?

Wand and Pitts are staying. I see talent in Wand, he just needs time to develop it. Pitts made the transition from LT to LG, and while doing that had to learn the new zone blocking scheme. I can see how he had some trouble. Going from Dwight Freewney to Josh Henderson is no easy transition.

McKinny and Weighert is our biggest problems. McKinny allows to much to come up from the middle, especailly if there is a nose tackle, and if Weighert isn't hurt all the time, he is making some bonehead play. Either get a FA in here or draft a rookie to compete.

Another thing, maybe our coaching has to change as well. I think in the Browns game I heard the CBS guy say that he saw Billy Miller blocking Kenard Lang on a pass play, and Lang got the sack. Now how smart is that?

TexansTrueFan
01-09-2005, 11:31 PM
i'm sure that casserly and all involved will bring in the right players that will help this team succed next season. They have done a good job thus far and this will be an impoved line by next year !

Chance_C
01-13-2005, 01:06 PM
I seriously doubt that we replace 3 of the 5. I can see one or perhaps two at the most....but the majority? No way. Not going to happen

Who do you think the two would be? 1 would be the TE if Joppru is healthy or we sign or draft one. We need help at TE and that's a given. So there's one. Next up IMO, is McKinney. What do you think the chances of that are? I give it 50-50, and I hope that it falls in the 50% chance for replacement. I like McKinney, but an upgrade is needed here for sure. Don't know if it's gonna happen this year or not, but it's a huge area of concern. So there's two. Next up IMO, is Weigert. While he came in and performed admirally in run blocking, his pass protection is suspect at best. An upgrade is needed here, but I don't think it's gonna happen this year. Next area for consideration is LT. I know that Seth has the size for the position. I know he has the footwork. He needs more strength and refining. I don't think he's going anywhere for a while. Was he a rock? No, but I think he may be, and I think the coaches think so as well. Next up is Wade. I think the thought of replacing him is crazy. He's a solid veteran that had a few bumpy moments in his first year here. IMO, he'll make everyone forget their negative thoughts of him next year. He is our RT for awhile. Last is Chester Pitts. I see people ragging him and I can't understand it. Consider what all he has been through. Didn't play football until college. Kyle Turley convinced him to try out for the team as he was buying groceries and Pitts was sacking them. He became a starting LT for an expansion franchise after playing football for only a few years. He progressed from year one to year two quite a bit. IMO he would be a very good LT for our team for years to come. But he was drafted to play LG and alas, that's where he's at. Like Wand, was he a rock? No, but look for great progress next year from Pitts. I think Pitts has been our best lineman, and don't look for him to get replaced. I would like to see him cut down on the false starts though. And as far as switching to the zone blocking scheme, it's a setback for some in itself. If Chester would have stayed at LT, it would have been starting over again. The coaches saw enough in Wand to stick him in there, and let him and Chester learn the nuances of their respective positions while learning a new scheme. Patience is a virtue that I posess, and Wand and Pitts performed well enough to continue their progression IMO. Now if Wand regresses, then LT becomes a concern. As of now, I just don't consider it a primary concern. But, in case things go sour, there needs to be a plan B for LT. In a nutshell, improvements on the o-line could be best addressed by having a two dimensional TE, an adequate center, and the most unpopular of the three......TIME.

nunusguy
01-13-2005, 01:31 PM
We need help at TE and that's a given.
True, but I believe the TE is apart from the OL, a different issue entirely
especially when you take into consideration the expanded role TEs
are playing in many NFL offenses. The real impact TEs today are becoming
more like WR and less like OLinemen, though they still are involved much more
in blocking than WRs (who duies are mainly limited to downfield blocking and never against DL for obvious reasons). But its misleading to lump a teams TE needs in with their OL needs, 2 different issues. Having steller performer
at TE today is almost if not at the level of RB or the teams leading WR. An
NFL offense is really incomplete today without a versatile, atheletic, pass receiver at TE.

Chance_C
01-13-2005, 01:54 PM
Yeah, I agree with you. Alot of people had mentioned the TE in the thread, and it's a fact that we need a two dimensional TE. Not having a TE that can actually block and catch has hindered the progress of our line, and therefore should be considered when discussing avenues of improvement for our line.

THE_HONKEY_TONK_KID
01-13-2005, 10:55 PM
When we drafted Bennie Joprru thats what we were getting was a two-dimensional TE. At Michigan he was known more for his blocking early on, but during the corse of this senior season he came on as a pass catcher and that was the main reason why we drafted him. He had loads of potentional. We just haven't seen that potenintial with all of his injuries. I think he will come back strong this offseason, finally recovering from whatever he has, a groin injury or somethin like that, and be our starting TE. We will NOT find a "complete" TE in this draft. Health Miller, Everett, all pass cathers. Good TE prospects, but not really what we are looking for. You can draft them and think you have the problem fixed and they may be productive, but they will never be what we are looking for. Lets face it. Right now our TE hopes lie in the hands of Bennie Joppru.

J-Man
01-13-2005, 11:28 PM
...We will NOT find a "complete" TE in this draft. Health Miller, Everett, all pass cathers. Good TE prospects, but not really what we are looking for. You can draft them and think you have the problem fixed and they may be productive, but they will never be what we are looking for. Lets face it. Right now our TE hopes lie in the hands of Bennie Joppru.


I beg to differ on this one...Saying that our TE hopes lie with BJ is a pretty bold statement. I like to think that Casserly and Capers are better than that and won't let a 3rd year guy who hasn't played a single down in the NFL control the direction of the franchise at his position. If he works out great...but more than likely he is on the way out. If he can't produce this coming seaon he's outta here. No NFL franchise will put that much time and money into a guy that they don't believe will produce. Even if he does come back his stock is clearly capped due to obvious injury concerns.

As far as Miller, he has been compared often with Todd Heap in terms of build, athletic ability, and potential. I have only had the opportunity to watch Miller in 3 games this past year and I noted that he is definetly not a one dimensional TE. I saw him executing several chips and double teams very well as well as a couple good seal blocks on LBs. He is not an psuedo-guard like Bruenor is but he is not a doorman either. I bet he will have to work on blocking just like pretty much every other top flight TE in the league had to when they 1st came in. Can anyone name one of the premier TEs in the game that were touted as "great blockers and great receivers"?

infantrycak
01-24-2005, 12:44 PM
Evidently the Chargers are not going to get any kind of preferential treatment from Houck:

Though everyone in San Diego feels the team can ill afford to lose out on the services of OL coach Hudson Houck, he indicated last week that he plans to exercise the right to talk to other clubs when his contract expires this week. The Dolphins and new head coach Nick Saban appeared to be in hot pursuit of Houck.

Link (http://proxy.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1974121)

This strikes me as one of those outside of the cap issues where a bidding war and spending the money can benefit the team. Probably won't happen but I'd at least like to hear that the Texans interview him.

MIGHTYTEX
01-24-2005, 07:30 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong but don't we have 2 O-line coaches, one who works with the tackles and one who works with the centers and guards? If that is the case maybe thats the problem. The problem being that the O-line isn't practicing as a "full unit" but in 2 segiments and the 2 aren't gelling.

TexansTrueFan
01-24-2005, 07:35 PM
they still practice together as a unit, you ever watched their practices ? Maybe we just need 1 OL line coach though.

infantrycak
01-24-2005, 09:55 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong but don't we have 2 O-line coaches, one who works with the tackles and one who works with the centers and guards?

Joe Pendry is the OL coach for the guards and centers. Steve Marshall is the OL coach for the tackles. Tony Marciano is the TE's coach. Pendry is in charge though.

Grid
01-24-2005, 11:12 PM
I think grabbing houck would be a HUGE HUGE HUUUUGGGGEEEE step in the right direction for our Oline.

MIGHTYTEX
01-25-2005, 06:04 PM
they still practice together as a unit, you ever watched their practices ?

Nope, never saw them practice. I live in Pennsylvania.

rhc564
01-25-2005, 06:44 PM
...4 coaches for the OL! That is incredible! How can we have so many OL
problems? Thats almost 1 coach per blocker and doesn't take into account
the receiver coach or the running back coach or the QB, plus the OC--
did I leave a coach out, like maybe a quality control coach? All these coaches
will have something to do with blocking, some more than others. Since
pass blocking did not change in the new scheme, I'm still having a real tough
time figuring out why we can't protect the QB. And, finally, a point made
by several posters still rings true--- every other team in the NFL could
protect their QB against us and those same teams could pressure ours--
something is wrong here!!! :hairpull:

TexansTrueFan
01-25-2005, 08:21 PM
...4 coaches for the OL! That is incredible! How can we have so many OL
problems? Thats almost 1 coach per blocker and doesn't take into account
the receiver coach or the running back coach or the QB, plus the OC--
did I leave a coach out, like maybe a quality control coach? All these coaches
will have something to do with blocking, some more than others. Since
pass blocking did not change in the new scheme, I'm still having a real tough
time figuring out why we can't protect the QB. And, finally, a point made
by several posters still rings true--- every other team in the NFL could
protect their QB against us and those same teams could pressure ours--
something is wrong here!!! :hairpull:


maybe the o-line coaches are telling different players different things, and if thats the case no wonder they suck. so we might have 6 guys trying to block the same guy :hmmm: i dunno !

infantrycak
01-25-2005, 09:55 PM
...4 coaches for the OL! That is incredible! :hairpull:

Where do you get 4? There are two OL coaches plus a TE's coach that works with the OL coaches on blocking assignments.

infantrycak
01-28-2005, 11:57 AM
Here is a good article about the Patriots OL which currently starts:

LT--2nd round pick
LG--undrafted free agent
C--5th round pick--sat one year, started the last two
RG--undrafted free agent, in fact was a college wrestler who didn't play football
RT--undrafted free agent

The Patriots have been very patient developing these guys. Only Matt Light the LT started as a rookie.

Link (http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/8136278)

Lucky
01-28-2005, 01:18 PM
C--5th round pick--sat one year, started the last two

The Patriots have been very patient developing these guys. Only Matt Light the LT started as a rookie.

The Pats center, Dan Koppen, started all but 1 game for the Pats in '03, his rookie season. The credit for this O-line's production belongs to Dante Scarnecchia, who has been an assistant coach for New England for 22 of the past 24 seasons.

nunusguy
01-28-2005, 01:24 PM
Here is a good article about the Patriots OL which currently starts:
LT--2nd round pick
LG--undrafted free agent
C--5th round pick--sat one year, started the last two
RG--undrafted free agent, in fact was a college wrestler who didn't play football
RT--undrafted free agent
The Patriots have been very patient developing these guys. Only Matt Light the LT started as a rookie.
Link (http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/8136278)
That's stunning, 3 starters on the SB champs OL are undrafted FAs and a 4th
was not taken until the 5th round ! Talk about being able to discover diamonds in the rough.

infantrycak
01-28-2005, 01:43 PM
The Pats center, Dan Koppen, started all but 1 game for the Pats in '03, his rookie season. The credit for this O-line's production belongs to Dante Scarnecchia, who has been an assistant coach for New England for 22 of the past 24 seasons.

Koppen did start as a rookie. I got thrown off by the article saying he was drafted in 2002. Koppen was in the 2003 draft.