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View Full Version : We're 3-5 now so what's it going to take?


Hervoyel
11-05-2008, 04:32 PM
Ok, so I was very much annoyed not to see the Texans step up and make themselves 4-4 last week. The reasons why that happened are ones we are all familiar with and there's no point in going over them again. What I want to know though is what does it take to get everyone back on the positive-vibe bandwagon?

We play the Ravens and a quick look at their season tells me that they are just as likely to come in here and lay an egg as they are to beat the snot out of us. It really could go either way. If we can't beat the Ravens at home then we're 3-6 and talking about draft position.

But what if it goes our way?

Then we're 4-5 and one game away from .500 again. We start hearing about the next game being "make or break" from all the talking heads. We start looking past the next one and trying to figure out what it will take to get into the playoffs. We start talking about how some rag or fool commentator disrespected the Texans who are clearly on the rise now.

At 4-5 we're going to Indianapolis with the Rosencopter looking for redemption and the Colts still aren't really "THE Colts". I think it makes for interesting NFL type drama. That game at Indy is really the game of the year (but only if we can beat the Ravens at Reliant Sunday). A win pulls us even on the season and I think has a very real chance to start us on a roll. At 5-5 we have the following left.

@Cleveland
Jacksonville
@Green Bay
Tennessee
@Oakland
Chicago

That's an interesting collection of games right there. Going into Cleveland we'd be facing at best another .500 team. They're completely beatable. Then we'd have Jacksonville at home and I think it's fair to say that they're no better than we are and maybe worse. At our house that could easily be a win. We could be going to Green Bay a 7-5 team and I can say that without my head exploding because it's not just Texans Kool-Aid talking. It's a reasonable scenario IF we get by the Ravens Sunday and then pull the upset at Indy.

Of course we lose the Green Bay game because there's no way in the world the Texans are going to win 5 in a row or beat Green Bay in December this year. It ain't happening.

So we fall to 7-6 and that's when the most interesting stretch of our season begins. We have 3 games left and two of them are at home. We get the Titans at Reliant and I've got to think that the Texans can give them a game in Reliant Stadium. Sure they're likely to beat us again. I can't deny it and we might very well find ourselves 7-7 but I think we have a chance against them at home.

That leaves the last two games. The one road game is against the Raiders and they've been done for three weeks. We have literally never lost to the Raiders. Upsets can always happen but I don't think I'm crazy to predict a win here. Call us 8-7 (or, if we get lucky against Tennessee maybe even 9-6).

That leaves Chicago at home on December 28th. The Bears are 5-3 right now and might not even need this game by the time it's played. I could see them sitting starters and the Texans ending the year 9-7 or if the stars line up just right 10-6.

That could happen people.

Double Barrel
11-05-2008, 04:41 PM
Good read, man, and filled with potential for optimism. There is certainly nothing wrong with that perspective.

Unfortunately, I do not share your enthusiasm. Our defense sucks so bad...and now we lose Diles for the year...I just don't see it mounting much consistent opposition to our opponents.

I will be rooting my butt off this Sunday, per standard operating procedure, but I think Flacco could have a field day against our secondary and weak pass rush. And Ray Lewis' defense is what it is, and without a consistent running game, I don't think we get the respect for our play action and our QB is likely to take some (more) brutal hits.

We seem to play well at home, though, so I guess anything is possible. At 4-5, we'd definitely be given some room to hope that the light is the end of the tunnel and not an oncoming train.

gtexan02
11-05-2008, 04:47 PM
It all comes down to whether believe we are a good team with a few bad games or a bad team with a few wins against horrible teams.

Hervoyel
11-05-2008, 05:03 PM
I don't think so. I think we are without a doubt a bad team with a few wins against bad teams. What makes me optimistic is that every year a few teams just like us get on a roll and win a few that we aren't supposed to. We aren't arguably worse than the team that wiped out Denver last year and beat the snot out of Tampa Bay. We have the same crappy defense and arguably a better offense. We'll be playing a late game where the opponent might not be interested in mixing it up just like last year against the Jags.

I think that the great teams win a lot of games and the really lousy teams lose a lot of games. How everybody in the middle ends up comes down to injuries, scheduling, and a few lucky (or unlucky) breaks. Sometimes very average teams get on little streaks and find themselves in the playoffs. Sure it wouldn't accomplish much more than hurting our draft position but hey, I'm hard up for some wins. I'll take that in a heartbeat.

imatexan
11-05-2008, 05:21 PM
Well it all starts this Sunday against the Ravens, lets hop we can squeak out a win!

Rex King
11-05-2008, 05:26 PM
Under Kubiak, the Texans have finished stronger than they've started. Eric Winston said he thinks they're stronger in December because of their training scheme - light hitting in practice and Dan Riley's weightlifting regimen. But I think there are other factors
- For some reason it takes Smith's defense at least two games to get their heads out of their a$$es
- They started out with a brutal schedule
- Perhaps most importantly, in previous years, they benefited from a schedule weighted more heavily to home games

This team hasn't shown it can win on the road against an average team. I hope to heck they can break that duck against Indy.

Silver Oak
11-05-2008, 05:45 PM
Herv, I like your optimism, but as tough as the Ravens defense is, we're equally soft everywhere.

I like our chances to score some, but our o-line is crap. People can defend all day long, but Baltimore will look at that Minny film and be licking their chops to repeat it against us.

I may get very drunk before the game.

brakos82
11-05-2008, 05:47 PM
Herv, I like your optimism, but as tough as the Ravens defense is, we're equally soft everywhere.

I like our chances to score some, but our o-line is crap. People can defend all day long, but Baltimore will look at that Minny film and be licking their chops to repeat it against us.

I may get very drunk before the game.
I would get drunk, but I have to get on the plane to Seattle at 8 the next morning...

Thorn
11-05-2008, 05:55 PM
The optimism is great, and I think the Texans will someday be not just a good team, but a great team. Just not this year, and quite possibly next year either. The Texans still have to prove they can consistently win on the road AND beat teams other than crappy ones worse than they are. At most I see four wins in our final eight, but I predict only three.

steelbtexan
11-05-2008, 06:19 PM
Any team that has no pass rush & Petey & Reeves @ CB is going to stink.

Add to that Richard Smith & his lackof creativity itis enough to bring the whole team down to mediocity

Next year we need a new DC, two new OLB, one new CB & a pass rushing DE.

I hope Mr. McNair puts KUBES on notice & we do whatever needs to be done to aquire these players in the draft & FA

b0ng
11-05-2008, 06:23 PM
I would get drunk, but I have to get on the plane to Seattle at 8 the next morning...
DO ITTTT.

That's a rather optimistic post so I'd have to say that really we could drop that one to Baltimore at home and it be real disappointing, and follow that up with another egg at Indy.

Really and truly at 3 - 5, I can see us going 8 - 8 or maybe 9 - 7 if we catch a lot of breaks. I think that the defense has been completely figured out by the NFL, and that almost every team seems to be able to attack us effectively at some element of the game. It seems only the truly pathetic teams really get smothered by how our defense plays (Except for that breakout game by Mario last year). So pretty much it's all on the offense, and I really think that we shouldn't be surprised that our line gives up a bunch of sacks. Most of the Gibbs coached teams relied on the run to carry the offense MUCH more than what we are doing. Also, I was always under the idea that his offensive lines tended to do mediocre in pass blocking but were monsters against the run, because they were so light? So when we're not executing fully on the run (And really, 16th in yards per games) and we pass more, it wears the line out.

It's great when it works, so we need to either see Sage stay healthy and somehow protect the ball, even when his mind tells him to "Favre" it, or the rushing averages go up. Otherwise we're looking at some other part of the offense getting overused and getting injured.

Having said all that, I think we can somehow keep it together enough to beat JAX, @CLE (Although this is one of those games that'll have us biting our nails) and @OAK. That's 6 - 5, then you've got tough games @IND, @GB, CHI and TEN (They may be resting starters here, etc) that could go either way in my mind. Split the difference and that's 8-7. I think the BAL game is where we drop our first home game this season.

That's where we get that. We need to have a lot of luck to get there in my mind because we have to win 5 more games, and we've looked pretty inept at times.

steelbtexan
11-05-2008, 06:23 PM
I notice yhat I drink more when the game is close & Richard Smith's defense is on the field.

Joe Texan
11-05-2008, 07:06 PM
It is gonna take Bob deciding of he really wants to be a contender,
He has got to give Gary the ultimatum that we need to win these games.
Then he has got to let a head roll if we are unproductive. be it Richard Smith or Jaques Reeves.

Why are the Cowboys always a contender from day one, Cause Jerry Demands perfection. I do not think Bob needs to be so arrogant but he does need to let everyone on the team know they are expendable.

sakebomb
11-05-2008, 07:15 PM
They will be a .500 team until they learn to eliminate all the turnovers.

Texans_Chick
11-05-2008, 07:18 PM
Punch em in the mouth.

Punch em all in the mouth.

And then stomp on them.

:texans chick:

TexanSam
11-05-2008, 07:20 PM
The Texans beat the Ravens. We go to Indy trying to prove ourselves before the NFL (as well as trying to actually win on the road). We fail. Then the whole cycle starts over again. I need the Texans to actually prove it before my pessimism goes away on this team.

Buffi2
11-05-2008, 07:23 PM
I love optimism!

I'm trying to take this one game at a time so as not to get my little heart broken yet again.

I'm not real sure of a win against Baltimore. Flacco is getting better with each game and then there is that pesky Ray Rice dude who did quite well last week. Add to that Baltimore's defense is pretty good - in the top 5, I think, but am too lazy to go look it up. The only plus is that their offense is only good against the likes of Oakland and Cleveland. All things are possible and I trust Hervoyel's assessments more than most.

What the hayull - I'll buy it given a home field advantage. I've had faith for this long - why give up now. I thought Miami was a pivotal win - but I agree that this is yet another must win. As Yoda would say, "On this, all else depends.":texflag:

IlliniJen
11-05-2008, 07:52 PM
IMHO, it's going to take an attitude transplant from a much meaner, more competitive team.

Runner
11-05-2008, 08:03 PM
I usually don't project games too far into the future, but the original was a good post so I'll give my view of a few of them.

I think the Ravens will beat the Texans rather handily. The Texans have not proven they can play effectively against a defense such as theirs. I think they will stuff the run rather easily, concentrate on stopping Dre, and bring what pressure they can against Sage. Without Slaton and Dre the rest of the offense will struggle. I think their offense is good enough to score just enough points on the Texans defense to keep it a two score lead most of the way. L

Indy is a tough one. Experience has shown the Colts should beat the Texans at home, but this is just the type of game the Texans win on occasion that gets the hopes of the fans up. I wouldn't be surprised to see either a Texans win or an Indy blow-out. ?

Cleveland is the game I think is the next "statement game". It is a fairly even match, but the Texans should win. W

After that is the next "statement" game with Jacksonville. As with Cleveland, it is an even match but the Texans should win. W

After that it is too dim for me to say in much detail. Call it a win against Oakland. Probably a win versus Chicago in a massive disinterest game. Losses to Green Bay and the Titans.

6-10 if they lose to Indy and Chicago, 7-9 if they split, 8-8 if they beat those two.

I already know that my projections are going to be obliterated by reality. I'm not good at this kind of thing, especially when I start giving details.

I think the Texans are the cream of the bad teams trying to become the cream of the average teams. I don't think they are consistent enough to build any sort of momentum to get "on a roll" and beat the better teams because of it.

ATXtexanfan
11-05-2008, 08:25 PM
very nice post runner, agree totally. i'm pulling for another 8-8 year now

eriadoc
11-05-2008, 08:48 PM
Just about every time we have a "must win" or a "statement" game, the statement has always been the same - the Texans aren't good. The Vikings game was the most recent such game. Once we are completely out of it, games against Indy and Jacksonville won't really be statement games, IMO.

It's going to take another year or two of building defense and a QB that protects the ball. All you folks who wanted Jake Plummer essentially got him.

ObsiWan
11-05-2008, 09:28 PM
Any team that has no pass rush & Petey & Reeves @ CB is going to stink.

Add to that Richard Smith & his lackof creativity itis enough to bring the whole team down to mediocity

Next year we need a new DC, two new OLB, one new CB & a pass rushing DE.

I hope Mr. McNair puts KUBES on notice & we do whatever needs to be done to aquire these players in the draft & FA

As much as I'd like to be hopeful, this is probably much closer to the truth.

Unless our guys figure out that they're not going to get any help from the refs or the injury deities and decide to take out their frustrations on the opposition in the manner TC suggests
Punch em in the mouth.

Punch em all in the mouth.

And then stomp on them.

:texans chick:

...this year is shot.
the sooner they get an "us-against-the-world/back-against-the-wall/come-out-swinging" attitude - team wide - the sooner they'll start winning.

IlliniJen
11-05-2008, 10:02 PM
Just about every time we have a "must win" or a "statement" game, the statement has always been the same - the Texans aren't good. The Vikings game was the most recent such game. Once we are completely out of it, games against Indy and Jacksonville won't really be statement games, IMO.

It's going to take another year or two of building defense and a QB that protects the ball. All you folks who wanted Jake Plummer essentially got him.

Goddamn it man, this post makes me wanna cry.

I would amend the statement that we make to: the Texans aren't very good, and they aren't very nasty either, so feel free to cheapshot the QB because we won't much mind.

Spot on about the Plummer thing. I'm still holding out a flicker of hope for Schaub, but man, this team is feeling a lot like the Carr years...only this time, the Carr albatross around our neck that we'll hold onto too long is Kubiak.

Norg
11-05-2008, 10:53 PM
i would like to see some changes made OBV

-start Firing some Coaches starting with the Def Cord
-make Sage the starter even when Matt is healthy
-hmm change some lineups in the secondary and get weeaver of the D line
-we cannot afford for Sage to get hurt thus we need to have a BLocking TE

etc etc etc

Goldensilence
11-05-2008, 11:13 PM
:thump I can't believe I aside from the fact Matt is injured I'm seeing suggestions for Sage.

What this franchise is sorely missing on the staff and team is someone to play the role of enforcer.

eriadoc
11-05-2008, 11:22 PM
:thump I can't believe I aside from the fact Matt is injured I'm seeing suggestions for Sage.

I'm sure if a backup of Sage's caliber had played behind Jake Plummer in Denver, there would have been fans there clamoring for the backup as well. It's hard to stomach turnovers.

I disagree with the calls for Sage, though, as we need to know what we have. The injuries aren't helping the evaluation process.

ATX
11-06-2008, 12:38 AM
:thump I can't believe I aside from the fact Matt is injured I'm seeing suggestions for Sage.

What this franchise is sorely missing on the staff and team is someone to play the role of enforcer.

I think it comes down to Sage blowing 1 game due to turnovers vs Matt blowing several games due to turnovers......and this is as I was ready to stop watching Texans game for the rest of the year after he blew that Indy game(it lasted 5 days) and personally kicking his ass.

Insideop
11-06-2008, 06:52 AM
I guess I look at this team differently than most, but I think they are really close to being a good NFL team. The thing that is missing the most is experience. Yes, I agree they're a few players shy at certain positions (OLB, DE, C, FS), but what I think they lack the most is experience.

You take just about any area of the team (OL, DL, QB, LB) and we are young or haven't played together for more than a season. To me it's amazing that we have a top 5 offense with a rookie LT and RB, and a line that's only been playing together for 8 games. Not to mention Schaub's only played about a seasons worth of games.

As for defense, with the exception of Weaver and Zgonina, we are very young on the DL, and the starting LB's are young except for Greenwood. The CB's are also very young except for Dunta, who really isn't that old at 26. Weaver and Greenwood are probably on the chopping block after this year especially since both have been disappointing this season.

Bottom line for this team, I believe, is they will start winning when they have enough game experience together as a team (especially the O-line) and have enough maturity to stop making mistakes (turnovers). Will this happen this year? :thinking: It's not looking good! JMHO!

nunusguy
11-06-2008, 07:06 AM
We have a shot at the playoffs if we go 6-2 or better in the second half of the season. You figure it out from there ?

Daravenator
11-06-2008, 08:05 AM
Let me start off by stating that I believe the Ravens leave Houston with a W.

Having said that, I think the Texans are not as bad as some of you guys feel they are. I like a lot of what I see from them so far. Trust me, your QB woes pale in comparison to what I've seen in the purple and black since Dilfer left!

Hardcore Texan
11-06-2008, 09:20 AM
Let me start off by stating that I believe the Ravens leave Houston with a W.

Having said that, I think the Texans are not as bad as some of you guys feel they are. I like a lot of what I see from them so far. Trust me, your QB woes pale in comparison to what I've seen in the purple and black since Dilfer left!

While I disagree with the first sentence, I do agree with the next one. We are not that good of a team and we are not that bad of a team. We are mediocre, in the middle of the pack.

While good teams usually play well and sometimes lay an egg, bad teams usually play poorly but sometimes put it all together and beat a really good team. But both of those are consistent. With us being mediocre, I think we just see more "swing".

We are capable of coming playing great dominating football like we did for 56 minutes against the Colts and we are also capable of shooting ourselves in the foot, not playing good D and not protecting the QB. We are just middle of the pack right now and haven't shown the ability to finish games and have not shown the consistentency to be a good team. This is part coaching, part talent and part mentality. We are getting there, but it's a slower process than what the fans want to see.

Here's to hoping we can string together some consistency and momentum, overcome the injuries (every team is banged up right about now) and show some resolve and determenation to get over the hump. :texflag:

Hervoyel
11-06-2008, 09:47 AM
I know my original post describes a very optimistic outcome to the rest of the season but I don't think it's an "unthinkable" scenario. It's actually rather familiar. This is early Warren Moon Oilers all over again. Young team, some talent scattered around both sides of the ball, missing pieces in nearly every unit on the field. Unproven head coach and questionable coaching staff. It's really all there. We are in that middle ground of mediocrity that is so frustrating to NFL fans. We're going to win most of them at home, lose most of them on the road, and there will be no rhyme or reason as to why.

We're probably looking at 2-3 years of this kind of frustration. I'm not predicting playoffs or trying to come up with some kind of "how we get there" plan because I'm positive beyond any doubt that if they need a game to get in they'll find a way to lose it at the end of the year. I'm just saying that we'll be around .500 in all likelihood regardless of how bad things look right now.

spurstexanstros
11-06-2008, 04:55 PM
as I said back in operation .500...just get back to .500 what ever you can do..spit and kick, onside the opening kickoff.....put mario out in the spread formation....wagon wheel ...just get back to .500 and we may beable to make a run at a wild card...all is moot if we dont get back to .500

Polo
11-06-2008, 05:34 PM
I have no idea about future games past saturday at this point, but I do think the Texans will beat Baltimore this sunday...

Wolf6151
11-06-2008, 10:49 PM
It all comes down to whether believe we are a good team with a few bad games or a bad team with a few wins against horrible teams.

I stopped sipping the Texan red kool-aid last week. We are a bad team with a few good players who beat horrible teams at home.

Grams
11-07-2008, 06:43 AM
Let me start off by stating that I believe the Ravens leave Houston with a W.

Having said that, I think the Texans are not as bad as some of you guys feel they are. I like a lot of what I see from them so far. Trust me, your QB woes pale in comparison to what I've seen in the purple and black since Dilfer left!

We are horrible. You do not need to see any national media info, just read these boards.
We are horrible when we win and when we lose. We have horrible players, we have horrible coaches. They all must go. Just ask most of the fans on this site. They know way more than any of the coaches. They know who should start and who should go. They are way better than any NFL coach there ever was. Just ask them.

It is just a game. Win or lose - it is still just a game. Entertainment. At least we have football in Houston. Not sure who benefit from all the negativity if there were no Texans in Houston.

I want to see the team do well. I watch then every Sunday and will always be a fan.

It is just getting too depressing visiting the forum. About the only one here who really has a clue and intelligent posts is Texan Chick.

I am going to send a letter to McNair and let him know how intelligent you guys are and ask him why didm't he hire you guys as coaches instead.

Runner
11-07-2008, 07:47 AM
This is just a discussion forum where opinions vary. If someone is happy with the Texans play, I certainly don't think they should let this place affect their mood. It is easy enough to avoid.

For the record, I don't think I'm smarter about football than the professionals. However, I don't think they are perfect either.

Also, I think the Texans are closer to average than horrible.

They are the best 3-5 team in the league. :)

Mr. White
11-07-2008, 08:22 AM
I thought about this thread today when I read Solomon's article. He seems to think Kube's job is on the line (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/6099573.html) this half of the season.

Now time to commence with the requisite Chron bashing.

BigBull17
11-07-2008, 11:42 AM
i would like to see some changes made OBV

-start Firing some Coaches starting with the Def Cord
-make Sage the starter even when Matt is healthy
-hmm change some lineups in the secondary and get weeaver of the D line
-we cannot afford for Sage to get hurt thus we need to have a BLocking TE

etc etc etc

Why? They are the same guy, Schaub is just younger. Both turnover machines, both think their arm is alot better than it is. Why start Sage?

Secondly, who plays DB? Moulden is a little too raw. The best two we can field right now is Bennet and Reeves.

And to the third point, why take OD off the field? He is one of our best weapons. Maybe leave Leech in to block instead of his awful 2 yd swing passes.

Norg
11-07-2008, 11:49 AM
Why take OD off the firld yeah hes great but at this point we are going to need a TE to block to ..... WIN games this season

we will live and die passing balls to are WR's and heck even FB and RB

BigBull17
11-07-2008, 11:51 AM
Why take OD off the firld yeah hes great but at this point we are going to need a TE to block to ..... WIN games this season

we will live and die passing balls to are WR's and heck even FB and RB

He is damn near a bonafied star. Taking one of your better players off the field does NOTHING to help you win. Use a FB or a second TE maybe, but you cant take OD off the field.