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View Full Version : Scouting Report on Schaub: Cheapshot him to DEATH


DexmanC
11-03-2008, 07:54 PM
1. Albert Haynesworth cheaped him over and over and over until he was
injured.

2. Drayton Florence of the Chargers smashed him in the jaw with his HELMET.
Concussion

3. Another Chargers corner karate chopped Matt's shoulder, putting him down
for the remainder of the last season.

4. And yesterday, Jared Allen Goldberg'd Schaub's knee well after the ball was
gone, while his buddy was schoving Matt in the chest. They, in effect,
chop blocked Matt and tore his MCL.

I'm sick of these posters calling Schaub "injury prone." EVERY time he's gone
down, it's due to BLATANT attempts to injure. So, I guess that's what his
scouting report says.

cuppacoffee
11-03-2008, 08:06 PM
1. Albert Haynesworth cheaped him over and over and over until he was
injured.

2. Drayton Florence of the Chargers smashed him in the jaw with his HELMET.
Concussion

3. Another Chargers corner karate chopped Matt's shoulder, putting him down
for the remainder of the last season.

4. And yesterday, Jared Allen Goldberg'd Schaub's knee well after the ball was
gone, while his buddy was schoving Matt in the chest. They, in effect,
chop blocked Matt and tore his MCL.

I'm sick of these posters calling Schaub "injury prone." EVERY time he's gone
down, it's due to BLATANT attempts to injure. So, I guess that's what his
scouting report says.



And why wouldn't they?

Refs' will look the other way, (it's just the Texans after all ), and our downy soft O and D linemen will NOT retaliate.

Everyone likes a win win situation.

:coffee:

junior
11-03-2008, 08:13 PM
1. Albert Haynesworth cheaped him over and over and over until he was
injured.

2. Drayton Florence of the Chargers smashed him in the jaw with his HELMET.
Concussion

3. Another Chargers corner karate chopped Matt's shoulder, putting him down
for the remainder of the last season.

4. And yesterday, Jared Allen Goldberg'd Schaub's knee well after the ball was
gone, while his buddy was schoving Matt in the chest. They, in effect,
chop blocked Matt and tore his MCL.

I'm sick of these posters calling Schaub "injury prone." EVERY time he's gone
down, it's due to BLATANT attempts to injure. So, I guess that's what his
scouting report says.


Exactly, everyone in the league is so scared of him that this is they only way they can beat us. Every QB in the league takes these hits, just look at Big Ben in Pittsburgh, he has been hurt the diffrence is he stays on the field more than Schaub.

We can't put a red jersey on him, so he has to find a way to absorb the hits better (I know he can't do anything about the tear) or find another profession.

Hervoyel
11-03-2008, 08:15 PM
Well, until one of them nuts up and decides to take some pride in keeping their QB from getting hurt. I swear sometimes it's like we just shut down the moment the play ends. It feels like we've got some of the biggest cream-puff mentality guys in the entire NFL.

I genuinely want to see this happen the next time Schaub takes a cheap shot. I want to see somebody (on the defense) carted off on the next series and maybe not return that day. I know it probably goes against their grain to do that crap but I watched Allen hit Schaubs knee with just total outrage on my face. I couldn't believe that piece of crap would climb back up to his knees and dive at the QB's leg knowing full well the ball was gone. I pretty much decided that Jared Allen was a turd right there. If our guys never retaliate then it just means our QB's have a big ol' bulls eye on them and it ain't part of the logo.

We need to play a lot meaner. We need someone who is willing to get a little dirty at times. We've all heard about this blocking system and how other teams hate it because they get hurt playing against it. When is that going to happen? I think I'm ready to see some of that.

Honoring Earl 34
11-03-2008, 08:28 PM
And why wouldn't they?

Refs' will look the other way, (it's just the Texans after all ), and our downy soft O and D linemen will NOT retaliate.

Everyone likes a win win situation.

:coffee:

Last year when Florence popped him in the chin , a guy called Kubiak's show and asked why we didn't get hem back and doesn't that make us soft . Kubiak replied ... they didn't teach that kind of football . Think of what would happen if Brady , Manning , Big Ben or any other team who's QB took those types of shots .

In the old (1970 )Raiders and Chiefs games Ben Davidson would squish Len Dawson . Buck Buchanon would kill Daryl lomonica and then George Blanda would come in and win the game .

GNTLEWOLF
11-03-2008, 08:34 PM
Exactly, everyone in the league is so scared of him that this is they only way they can beat us. Every QB in the league takes these hits, just look at Big Ben in Pittsburgh, he has been hurt the diffrence is he stays on the field more than Schaub.
We can't put a red jersey on him, so he has to find a way to absorb the hits better (I know he can't do anything about the tear) or find another profession.

You are absolutely right!. I get so tired of this constant whining like no other QB in the league gets hit like this. Defensive players are after every QB in exactly the same way. Manning, Favre, Brady, They all have learned how to sidestep, get rid of the ball quickly, or take the hit and keep on playing. The game is football, not tea and crumpets. It is not just our sweet little Schaubby that gets picked on all the time by those big mean bad bullies on defense...whine, whine, whine, excuse, excuse, excuse. Geez... man up!

Honoring Earl 34
11-03-2008, 08:39 PM
Well, until one of them nuts up and decides to take some pride in keeping their QB from getting hurt. I swear sometimes it's like we just shut down the moment the play ends. It feels like we've got some of the biggest cream-puff mentality guys in the entire NFL.

I genuinely want to see this happen the next time Schaub takes a cheap shot. I want to see somebody (on the defense) carted off on the next series and maybe not return that day. I know it probably goes against their grain to do that crap but I watched Allen hit Schaubs knee with just total outrage on my face. I couldn't believe that piece of crap would climb back up to his knees and dive at the QB's leg knowing full well the ball was gone. I pretty much decided that Jared Allen was a turd right there. If our guys never retaliate then it just means our QB's have a big ol' bulls eye on them and it ain't part of the logo.

We need to play a lot meaner. We need someone who is willing to get a little dirty at times. We've all heard about this blocking system and how other teams hate it because they get hurt playing against it. When is that going to happen? I think I'm ready to see some of that.


http://sports.aol.com/story/_a/bbdp/a-generation-of-excessive-celebration/172583?feeddeeplinkNum=0

Silver Oak
11-03-2008, 08:41 PM
Thanks for posting this Dexman as I'm glad to know I'm not the only angry one out here!

I said it last year after the Florence hit. We should have come back the next time on defense and leveled someone on their team...Ferotte, AD, or Allen with our offense out there.

I toe the team line on everything that McNair, Smith, and Kubiak give us, but it's a tough game and if a team doesn't show backbone to protect their own, there isn't much hope of playoff caliber football IMO.

texasguy346
11-03-2008, 08:44 PM
Thanks for posting this Dexman as I'm glad to know I'm not the only angry one out here!

I said it last year after the Florence hit. We should have come back the next time on defense and leveled someone on their team...Ferotte, AD, or Allen with our offense out there.

I toe the team line on everything that McNair, Smith, and Kubiak give us, but it's a tough game and if a team doesn't show backbone to protect their own, there isn't much hope of playoff caliber football IMO.

I'm with you on that one. Allen should've found himself on the receiving end of a few crack back blocks after that cheapshot. This is why we need a mean SOB or two on our OL, and it seems like we're missing that element.

TexansFanatic
11-03-2008, 08:53 PM
Well, until one of them nuts up and decides to take some pride in keeping their QB from getting hurt. I swear sometimes it's like we just shut down the moment the play ends. It feels like we've got some of the biggest cream-puff mentality guys in the entire NFL.

I genuinely want to see this happen the next time Schaub takes a cheap shot. I want to see somebody (on the defense) carted off on the next series and maybe not return that day. I know it probably goes against their grain to do that crap but I watched Allen hit Schaubs knee with just total outrage on my face. I couldn't believe that piece of crap would climb back up to his knees and dive at the QB's leg knowing full well the ball was gone. I pretty much decided that Jared Allen was a turd right there. If our guys never retaliate then it just means our QB's have a big ol' bulls eye on them and it ain't part of the logo.

We need to play a lot meaner. We need someone who is willing to get a little dirty at times. We've all heard about this blocking system and how other teams hate it because they get hurt playing against it. When is that going to happen? I think I'm ready to see some of that.

Excellent post.

I respect Bob McNair and I completely understand why he is trying to put together a class organization without the likes of a Terrell Owens or a PacMan Jones. I have no quarrel with that.

But when you go out of your way to get "good guys" on your team, you run the risk of getting guys who are so clean cut that they lack a mean streak. Football is all about the mean streak. Show me a championship team and I'll show you a team with some headhunters on both sides of the ball. I don't see many guys like that on this team or in this organization. That needs to change.

Texans_Chick
11-03-2008, 09:03 PM
Here is the cheap shot Jared Allen video. Watch it while you can before the NFL pulls the video. Please please please leave comments to make it a bigger, more searchable story. If this had happened to a QB from a more high profile franchise, the real media would be all over it.

FanHouse: Did Jared Allen Cheap Shot Matt Schaub (http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2008/11/03/did-jared-allen-cheap-shot-matt-schaub/)

The slo mo part is scary. It shows how badly the line got destroyed. It was amazing that Schaub got the ball off and had a completion. And it also shows how cheap that hit was.

Please leave a comment. Don't have to leave a real email and even if you did, they don't do anything with them. Just like the offensive line needs to make a fuss, so do Texan fans.

BTW, shortly after that play, Jared Allen got his shoulder hurt some after he was driven to the ground by one of the Olinemen.

texasguy346
11-03-2008, 09:13 PM
BTW, shortly after that play, Jared Allen got his shoulder hurt some after he was driven to the ground by one of the Olinemen.

That was Briesel who dove on top of him during a running play. That should've happened more often.

TheIronDuke
11-03-2008, 09:21 PM
Sometimes the Texans remind me of the Astros where we'd be getting beaned and our pitchers wouldn't do anything about it. I guess I'm just used to watching my team get cheap-shotted without any consequence. The city of Houston hasn't had someone with any balls on any sports team for a long long time.

FWIW, I thought Allen was playing very dirty and from listening to Kubes this afternoon he turned in 3 plays to the NFL for possible infractions. Doubt anything will come of it but whatever.

Texans_Chick
11-03-2008, 09:27 PM
Sometimes the Texans remind me of the Astros where we'd be getting beaned and our pitchers wouldn't do anything about it. I guess I'm just used to watching my team get cheap-shotted without any consequence. The city of Houston hasn't had someone with any balls on any sports team for a long long time.

FWIW, I thought Allen was playing very dirty and from listening to Kubes this afternoon he turned in 3 plays to the NFL for possible infractions. Doubt anything will come of it but whatever.

Good. Let's make a fuss about this. Please, I ask you to leave comments (http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2008/11/03/did-jared-allen-cheap-shot-matt-schaub/)on my blog post on this subject to make it more searchable. We need some righteous indignation so that the NFL cares about this some.

I know that some of my FH posts get league attention because I've been contacted about some of my opinion pieces by league spokesmen types. Be heard.

texanhead08
11-03-2008, 10:25 PM
I was screaming last year it was a friggin joke Haynesworth wasn't fined and/or suspended for the helmet to helmet in the game at Reliant. Then yesterday that crap happens, why aren't the Texans sending these tapes to the league and protesting what happened. If one of our guys did something like this they would be ejected on the spot.

Wolf
11-03-2008, 10:33 PM
I think it is one of those things ... schaub hit in the knee .. we will see what happens... if it was brees or favre... (big names) ..all hell breaks lose because people come to see those guys play and NFL takes notice.. we will see if NFL takes notice on Schaub

GlassHalfFull
11-03-2008, 10:38 PM
I added my :twocents:. I am Casey (my initials) over there.

YellerLotYeller
11-03-2008, 10:48 PM
Rick Smith needs to take notes from Daryl Morey, and get someone to protect our franchise player.

Norg
11-03-2008, 10:52 PM
Football is a physical sport cant take the heat get out of the kitchen

Drew Brees takes hits he stays pretty healthy

Matt Hasselbeck played healthy for many years

Byron Leftwich has seemed to stay healthy over the years

Jason Campbell was sacked like 6 times today hes still healthy and has been active for along time

Norg
11-03-2008, 10:57 PM
All i seen was Brown push Allen then turn is back to him HAHAHAH rookie mastike

dont let NO one touch your QB even after the whistle

GOd bless 69 who was the weeaver or pitts who tried to save Matty from the chop block but he was a sec to late

GlassHalfFull
11-03-2008, 10:58 PM
Football is a physical sport cant take the heat get out of the kitchen

Drew Brees takes hits he stays pretty healthy

Matt Hasselbeck played healthy for many years

Byron Leftwich has seemed to stay healthy over the years

Jason Campbell was sacked like 6 times today hes still healthy and has been active for along time

And where was Big Ben during the 2nd half? Give me a break, the players are bigger and more physical each year. The sport needs to make sure that cheap shots do not ruin the integrity of the game.

gg no re
11-03-2008, 10:58 PM
We're an adaptation of the Denver offense, we're supposed to be the ones giving the cheapshots....

Koolaid Time
11-03-2008, 11:00 PM
Back in the 70's playing High School football, anyone that took a cheapo on the QB got "stood up" and chopped at the knees a few plays later...

Taught them a lesson every time.

Hardcore Texan
11-03-2008, 11:04 PM
Blatant chep shot, hands down. I hope Allen misses 2-4 weeks with his shoulder injury. :aggressive:

Joe Texan
11-03-2008, 11:15 PM
was Allen eating water pills

TexanSam
11-03-2008, 11:24 PM
Football is a physical sport cant take the heat get out of the kitchen

Drew Brees takes hits he stays pretty healthy

Matt Hasselbeck played healthy for many years

Byron Leftwich has seemed to stay healthy over the years

Jason Campbell was sacked like 6 times today hes still healthy and has been active for along time

Say what you will about the play of David Carr, but the guy was one tough dude to get hit so many times and never get hurt (except for once I believe).

Wolf
11-03-2008, 11:34 PM
Say what you will about the play of David Carr, but the guy was one tough dude to get hit so many times and never get hurt (except for once I believe).

why hurt him , when he can't read a defense.. and risk putting tony banks or sage in ..

I am joking of course TS:D

jaayteetx
11-03-2008, 11:47 PM
I added my comments.

Texans_Chick
11-04-2008, 12:00 AM
I added my comments.

And you get a rep for your efforts.

If Texan fans don't defend Texan players, who will? It ain't going to be Peter King.

Eleven comments so far. One from someone who called me a few bad names, but no problem if it means that the overall comment count improves the googleability of this post and the chances that AOL makes it a bigger issue.

valleytexfan
11-04-2008, 12:02 AM
And where was Big Ben during the 2nd half? Give me a break, the players are bigger and more physical each year. The sport needs to make sure that cheap shots do not ruin the integrity of the game.

I agree with this....:thinking:

spurstexanstros
11-04-2008, 12:22 AM
Hmmmmm wondering how DC would be doing with the improved line and more weapons......hmmmmm I may out do you TC. I bet you a coke I will get more negative comments when I rehash my "it wasnt Carr's fault thread"

I am pissed off that DC was run out of town for this fragile "better" QB

on second thought i wont rehash it.... even though I did tell yall getting rid of DC was a mistake.... Matt is more injury and turnover prone.

Blazing Arrow
11-04-2008, 12:30 AM
1. Albert Haynesworth cheaped him over and over and over until he was
injured.



:mcnugget:

I believe you are talking one play and one legal hit. Hard hit but if it was a cheap shot AH would have been fined.

Schaub needs to learn a little Kenny Rogers and know when to hold'm and know when to fold'm ... IMO

Scooter
11-04-2008, 12:36 AM
Say what you will about the play of David Carr, but the guy was one tough dude to get hit so many times and never get hurt (except for once I believe).

because carr was in a fetal position 1.5 seconds into that play. schaub stepped out, up, and through everyone coming almost unblocked and completed the pass. and of all the sacks in tonight's game, where did a defensive end come backside through the quarterback's knee - twice? a torn MCL because of a cheapshot isnt part of "fragile", neither are the mentioned shots we've allowed. what about the rest of the hits that schaub stands through and takes as just part of the game (of which we've given up way too many)?

i'm as pissed at schaub and kubiak for the turnovers and how kubiak handled the injury (i think KT said it best in another thread) as anyone else, but getting criticized for a cheap shot and subsequent knee injury is weak. big ben is this era's steve mcnair as far as being banged around and playing through it ... a torn MCL isnt exactly playing through a bruise or sprain. the fact that matt DID play through it should say something. matt's not 6'5" and 265lbs, he cant be fearless in the pocket and take those kinds of hits ... he can curl up into the fetal position safely or we can do better protecting him.

spurstexanstros
11-04-2008, 12:43 AM
because carr was in a fetal position 1.5 seconds into that play. schaub stepped out, up, and through everyone coming almost unblocked and completed the pass. and of all the sacks in tonight's game, where did a defensive end come backside through the quarterback's knee - twice? a torn MCL because of a cheapshot isnt part of "fragile", neither are the mentioned shots we've allowed. what about the rest of the hits that schaub stands through and takes as just part of the game (of which we've given up way too many)?

i'm as pissed at schaub and kubiak for the turnovers and how kubiak handled the injury (i think KT said it best in another thread) as anyone else, but getting criticized for a cheap shot and subsequent knee injury is weak. big ben is this era's steve mcnair as far as being banged around and playing through it ... a torn MCL isnt exactly playing through a bruise or sprain. the fact that matt DID play through it should say something. matt's not 6'5" and 265lbs, he cant be fearless in the pocket and take those kinds of hits ... he can curl up into the fetal position safely or we can do better protecting him.

Schaub has better line and more weapons...Imagine if a more moblie QB more durable Qb had the line, weapons and running game that Schaub has.

I think any QB would go into the fetal position behind the o-lines Carr played behind.

Texans_Chick
11-04-2008, 12:49 AM
Schaub has better line and more weapons...Imagine if a more moblie QB more durable Qb had the line, weapons and running game that Schaub has.

I think any QB would go into the fetal position behind the o-lines Carr played behind.

Let's try to keep this thread on subject. There is an all-encompassing Carr thread in a different forum. Thanks.

:texflag:

Malloy
11-04-2008, 03:05 AM
Here is the cheap shot Jared Allen video. Watch it while you can before the NFL pulls the video. Please please please leave comments to make it a bigger, more searchable story. If this had happened to a QB from a more high profile franchise, the real media would be all over it.

FanHouse: Did Jared Allen Cheap Shot Matt Schaub (http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2008/11/03/did-jared-allen-cheap-shot-matt-schaub/)

The slo mo part is scary. It shows how badly the line got destroyed. It was amazing that Schaub got the ball off and had a completion. And it also shows how cheap that hit was.

Please leave a comment. Don't have to leave a real email and even if you did, they don't do anything with them. Just like the offensive line needs to make a fuss, so do Texan fans.

BTW, shortly after that play, Jared Allen got his shoulder hurt some after he was driven to the ground by one of the Olinemen.


Thanks, good stuff. Im sorry for some of the more lame comments you get on that blog of yours, I guess you get a little bit of everything.

When the NFL is so PC in everything they do (at least that is what they claim) they should start handing out suspensions for late hits and bad behaviour in games. They can fine players so why not punish the team also through suspensions, it might actually prove more useful than a fine if your lead rusher sits two games because of repeated cheap-shots.

Anywho, thanks for bringing this to peoples attention, now we just need to see if the NFL will do anything at all.

CloakNNNdagger
11-04-2008, 06:56 AM
Here is the cheap shot Jared Allen video. Watch it while you can before the NFL pulls the video. Please please please leave comments to make it a bigger, more searchable story. If this had happened to a QB from a more high profile franchise, the real media would be all over it.

FanHouse: Did Jared Allen Cheap Shot Matt Schaub (http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2008/11/03/did-jared-allen-cheap-shot-matt-schaub/)

The slo mo part is scary. It shows how badly the line got destroyed. It was amazing that Schaub got the ball off and had a completion. And it also shows how cheap that hit was.

Please leave a comment. Don't have to leave a real email and even if you did, they don't do anything with them. Just like the offensive line needs to make a fuss, so do Texan fans.

BTW, shortly after that play, Jared Allen got his shoulder hurt some after he was driven to the ground by one of the Olinemen.


Allen's helmet was behind Schaub's lower leg.............classic definition of a chop block. Classic lateral posterior hit resulting in an MCL tear. This hit was especially egregious since it occurred several seconds after Schaub's release of the ball........certainly not explainable by "inertia".............but entirely supported by "intent."

TD
11-04-2008, 07:10 AM
I dunno. It look likes he was stumbling his way toward Schaub. While the result sucked and it should be a penalty, I don't see it as a deliberate cheap shot.

Mr. White
11-04-2008, 07:33 AM
I'm of the opinion that cheap shots are coached on both sides of the ball.

The fact that they (not just Allen) were taking cheap shots is a reflection of their coaching.

The fact that we didn't retaliate is a reflection of our coaching.

El Tejano
11-04-2008, 07:37 AM
Hmmmmm wondering how DC would be doing with the improved line and more weapons......hmmmmm I may out do you TC. I bet you a coke I will get more negative comments when I rehash my "it wasnt Carr's fault thread"

I am pissed off that DC was run out of town for this fragile "better" QB

on second thought i wont rehash it.... even though I did tell yall getting rid of DC was a mistake.... Matt is more injury and turnover prone.

Dude he's gone. Get over it, and I'm sure you have liked having more wins and the ball moving up and down the field vs. just taking 3 and outs.

El Tejano
11-04-2008, 07:37 AM
What ticks me off about the way he was hit is I remember us getting penalized for the same kind of hit.

On top of all this, where was our coach to argue with a ref that the hits were illegal, and how come our defense didn't start getting rough either?

Texans_Chick
11-04-2008, 07:38 AM
I dunno. It look likes he was stumbling his way toward Schaub. While the result sucked and it should be a penalty, I don't see it as a deliberate cheap shot.

Under the rules, a defensive player is to avoid hitting a quarterback low. He didn't look like he was doing much avoiding. According to the rule:

If possible, rushing defenders must make a conscious effort to avoid low hits on the quarterback. Previously, defenders were not compelled to make a conscious effort to avoid low hits if momentum was a factor. Penalty: Roughing the passer, loss of 15 yards.


It was totally possible to avoid hitting Schaub low. Allen wasn't being touched. Schaub had released the ball.

That he had already hit Schaub low speaks to intent.

Texans_Chick
11-04-2008, 07:39 AM
What ticks me off about the way he was hit is I remember us getting penalized for the same kind of hit.

In the Jacksonville game. But that was a hit not from the blindside. And it didn't look like it was done to deliberately harm--it just look like a sack that went a little low.

Malloy
11-04-2008, 07:40 AM
I'm of the opinion that cheap shots are coached on both sides of the ball.

The fact that they (not just Allen) were taking cheap shots is a reflection of their coaching.

The fact that we didn't retaliate is a reflection of our coaching.

I agree, I just wish the NFL would start whipping out suspensions to the players doing it, that way you would change the amount of cheap-shotting alot, I think.

Or, if any penalty is considered REALLY dangerous, aka cheapshotting knees, the victimized team should get the ball on the 20 yard line, or if within the red zone such a penalty should place the ball on the 1-yard line. Until there is a collective HARSH punishment for cheap-shotting it'll continue.

Texans_Chick
11-04-2008, 07:41 AM
Allen's helmet was behind Schaub's lower leg.............classic definition of a chop block. Classic lateral posterior hit resulting in an MCL tear. This hit was especially egregious since it occurred several seconds after Schaub's release of the ball........certainly not explainable by "inertia".............but entirely supported by "intent."

I'm not sure that it was several seconds after, but Schaub had clearly released the ball.

Everybody, keep up the comments. Blog video here (http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2008/11/03/did-jared-allen-cheap-shot-matt-schaub).

Buffi2
11-04-2008, 07:44 AM
I added a comment and didn't call anyone a bad name - although I would have liked to call Jared a word or two - which I did in front of the TV.

TheRealJoker
11-04-2008, 08:42 AM
Quick question:

Kubes said Schaub was originally hurt on the first series of the game right? Was that hit a cheap shot as well?

Jackie Chiles
11-04-2008, 08:45 AM
I'm not sure that it was several seconds after, but Schaub had clearly released the ball.

Everybody, keep up the comments. Blog video here (http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2008/11/03/did-jared-allen-cheap-shot-matt-schaub).

After watching that video I don't know about anyone else but I'm pissed at Salaam. Finish the GD block and this doesn't happen. What the heck is he doing, he has Allen beat and then turns around like he wants to see the play instead of plowing him into the dirt like he should be doing. Unreal.

MannyFresh
11-04-2008, 08:46 AM
Its time for the Texans to start going to war for the QB. They need to discover that House of Pain mindset again.

Texans_Chick
11-04-2008, 08:46 AM
Quick question:

Kubes said Schaub was originally hurt on the first series of the game right? Was that hit a cheap shot as well?

I'll go back and look at the video.

Texans_Chick
11-04-2008, 08:50 AM
After watching that video I don't know about anyone else but I'm pissed at Salaam. Finish the GD block and this doesn't happen. What the heck is he doing, he has Allen beat and then turns around like he wants to see the play instead of plowing him into the dirt like he should be doing. Unreal.

That is a very very bad Ephraim moment. Salaam had one of the highest ole totals in the league last year. Which is one reason why the Texans drafted left tackle despite having their overall sack totals down.

Yeah, the slow mo shows how effective the Vikings line is. And how caved in the Texans line was. Myers gets driven back into Schaub and destroyed. If you look closely, it looks like Myers might slightly step on him.

Bad overall moment for the line.

Mailman
11-04-2008, 08:56 AM
I'll go back and look at the video.

I just watched it. It's pretty close to cheap, too. Allen beat Duane Brown on the outside and fell to the ground as he pressured Schaub. It looked to me like he intentionally rolled into Schaub's legs as he fell.

Texans_Chick
11-04-2008, 09:13 AM
I just watched it. It's pretty close to cheap, too. Allen beat Duane Brown on the outside and fell to the ground as he pressured Schaub. It looked to me like he intentionally rolled into Schaub's legs as he fell.

Yeah, it looks pretty bad. It's the 3 and 4 play, completion to OD. At the 11:25 ish mark of the first quarter. Brown is beat, and Allen very similarly launches himself at Schaub, not tackling with his arms, but leading with his helmet.

He hits Schaub in the front of the left knee. I watched some after that. It didn't look like Schaub was limping at that point. Though the Texans were moving the ball some, I didn't really like the play mix of so many passes. The line was so on its heels.

It is not as easy for the viewer to see, because they cut away to showing the reception.

New_Texans
11-04-2008, 09:15 AM
I just watched it. It's pretty close to cheap, too. Allen beat Duane Brown on the outside and fell to the ground as he pressured Schaub. It looked to me like he intentionally rolled into Schaub's legs as he fell.

It was Salaam not brown i believe.

Either way, the Tackle did a good job at making Allen over pursue giving Schaub the throwing lane even though he was beat. The tackle failed to finish the block by keeping Allen down.

The1ApplePie
11-04-2008, 09:18 AM
Phillip Rivers basically played two games with a torn ACL

Schaub can't take a hit legal or otherwise.

I think this seals his career in Houston. Option probably won't get picked up at the end of the year

MightyTExan
11-04-2008, 09:20 AM
Phillip Rivers basically played two games with a torn ACL

Schaub can't take a hit legal or otherwise.

I think this seals his career in Houston. Option probably won't get picked up at the end of the year

Harsh, but probably true.....................

Texans_Chick
11-04-2008, 09:21 AM
It was Salaam not brown i believe.

Either way, the Tackle did a good job at making Allen over pursue giving Schaub the throwing lane even though he was beat. The tackle failed to finish the block by keeping Allen down.

Salaam got beat on the one that is in the video.

Brown got beat on the shot in the first series that the video isn't on the YouTube. It would be hard video to shoot close because the ball was out, and the camera pans downfield. I'm guessing the Texans have better video.

Texans_Chick
11-04-2008, 09:36 AM
The FanHouse video is now on Pro Football Talk.

Go there and leave a comment. If NFL folks don't read my stuff at FH, I know they read the stuff at PFT because everyone in the NFL does.

Kubiak Complains About Allen Hit on Schaub (http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/11/04/kubiak-complains-about-allen-hit-on-schaub/)

Texans fans, let's represent. :texflag:

powerfuldragon
11-04-2008, 09:43 AM
Okay, i think the most telling thing in that video... the thing that makes it painfully obvious it was a cheapshot was big #93 on the Vikes d-line. He backed off schaub after he saw that the ball was gone, he gave him that little shove, but that's almost expected. AFTER he's got his hands up like he's not going to hit schaub is when allen comes in and demolishes the knee.

Porky
11-04-2008, 10:07 AM
Say what you will about the play of David Carr, but the guy was one tough dude to get hit so many times and never get hurt (except for once I believe).

It's hard to get hurt when you are lying in the fetal position.

But I digress. I thought it was a cheap shot when it happened, and continue to think so. But, this will continue to happen until this team grows a pair. Right now, they are too soft. They don't play for the Angelsoft bowl, and they need to wake up out there.

dskillz
11-04-2008, 10:09 AM
1. Albert Haynesworth cheaped him over and over and over until he was
injured.

2. Drayton Florence of the Chargers smashed him in the jaw with his HELMET.
Concussion

3. Another Chargers corner karate chopped Matt's shoulder, putting him down
for the remainder of the last season.

4. And yesterday, Jared Allen Goldberg'd Schaub's knee well after the ball was
gone, while his buddy was schoving Matt in the chest. They, in effect,
chop blocked Matt and tore his MCL.

I'm sick of these posters calling Schaub "injury prone." EVERY time he's gone
down, it's due to BLATANT attempts to injure. So, I guess that's what his
scouting report says.

We are really grasping at straws now. Every QB that faces those players goes through the same treatment, but I don't see a trail of injured QBs. I see Matt Schaub. I see Matt Schaub getting up like a 87 year-old man after every sack. Matt is not durable. The fact is that if he is out 4 weeks, he would have missed 9 out of his first 21 possible starts for this team. Spin that anyway you want, make up all the excuses you want, but that is not a durable QB.

As far as the book on Schaub, what I have heard is you just have to hit him a few times at the beginning of the game to rattle him and he will start getting happy feet and throwing the ball up for grabs. Seems that book has Matt described to a T.

gtexan02
11-04-2008, 10:12 AM
I think this video is just sickening. He gets up off his knees and lunges at Schaub's. Wow, Allen is incredibly dirty

Mailman
11-04-2008, 10:29 AM
Somebody really should post a video of the first cheap shot because one can make a case that it's just as egregious as this one. On that particular play Allen didn't just dive at Schaub's knees (as the ball was being thrown, btw), he intentionally rolled his body up and into Schaub's feet/lower legs. He dove and spun.

He should be fined at minimum, but if I were Goodell, I'd suspend him a game.

Texans_Chick
11-04-2008, 10:30 AM
I think this video is just sickening. He gets up off his knees and lunges at Schaub's. Wow, Allen is incredibly dirty

The other hit looks bad too. The first knee hit looked a bit questionable. Combined with the second hit, also leading with the helmet to the knee looked really bad.

I don't know what the third hit is that Kubiak referred to.

Porky
11-04-2008, 10:31 AM
I think the odds are very low for Schaub to return. If I were in Vegas I would place a large wager on IR. I bet we don't see him the rest of the year. I know what BS they are spewing, but I'm not buying 4 weeks, although I hope I am wrong.

Texans_Chick
11-04-2008, 10:31 AM
Somebody really should post a video of the first cheap shot because one can make a case that it's just as egregious as this one. On that particular play Allen didn't just dive at Schaub's knees (as the ball was being thrown, btw), he intentionally rolled his body up and into Schaub's feet/lower legs. He dove and spun.

He should be fined at minimum, but if I were Goodell, I'd suspend him a game.

If I have some time, I will try.

Double Barrel
11-04-2008, 10:42 AM
Well, until one of them nuts up and decides to take some pride in keeping their QB from getting hurt. I swear sometimes it's like we just shut down the moment the play ends. It feels like we've got some of the biggest cream-puff mentality guys in the entire NFL.


QFT!!

Football is a physical sport cant take the heat get out of the kitchen

Drew Brees takes hits he stays pretty healthy

Matt Hasselbeck played healthy for many years

Byron Leftwich has seemed to stay healthy over the years

Jason Campbell was sacked like 6 times today hes still healthy and has been active for along time

All four of your QB examples have suffered injuries:

Drew Brees (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drew_Brees): In the last game of the 2005 season against the Denver Broncos, Brees injured his shoulder while trying to pick up a fumble of his after being hit by Denver Broncos safety John Lynch. Denver tackle Gerard Warren hit Brees while he was on the ground, a legal but questionable hit that caused the injury. Brees underwent arthroscopic surgery to repair the torn labrum in his right (throwing) shoulder on January 5, 2006. Subsequent reports mention rotator cuff damage as well, making the injury much more serious than it was originally described. Then in an interview given in July 2006, he acknowledged that the labrum injury was much worse than originally known and he had also suffered a partially torn rotator cuff.

Matt Hasselbeck (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matt_Hasselbeck): Hasselbeck led the Seahawks to a 4-1 record to start the 2006 season before being seriously injured on Week 7. Minnesota linebacker E.J. Henderson rolled into Hasselbeck's right leg. The result was a second degree MCL sprain, causing Hasselbeck to miss four games. Hasselbeck contended that Henderson could have avoided injuring him.

Byron Leftwich (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byron_Leftwich): However in the regular season against the Arizona Cardinals, Leftwich suffered a broken ankle after being sacked by Cardinals' safety Adrian Wilson on the first play of the game. Leftwich missed the remaining five games of the regular season.

-----------------

After this win streak, Leftwich suffered an ankle injury 5 games into the season. In November, Leftwich had surgery on the injured ankle, which forced the Jaguars to move him to their injured reserves, effectively ending his season.

-----------------

After replacing Harrington late in Week 5, Leftwich got the start in Week 7 and played very well, before having to leave the game with an ankle sprain.

Jason Campbell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason_Campbell): On December 6th, 2007 Campbell dislocated the patellar ligament of his left knee during a game against the Chicago Bears. The injury did not require surgery but Campbell did not play for the remainder of the season.

GP
11-04-2008, 10:45 AM
We are really grasping at straws now. Every QB that faces those players goes through the same treatment, but I don't see a trail of injured QBs. I see Matt Schaub. I see Matt Schaub getting up like a 87 year-old man after every sack. Matt is not durable. The fact is that if he is out 4 weeks, he would have missed 9 out of his first 21 possible starts for this team. Spin that anyway you want, make up all the excuses you want, but that is not a durable QB.

As far as the book on Schaub, what I have heard is you just have to hit him a few times at the beginning of the game to rattle him and he will start getting happy feet and throwing the ball up for grabs. Seems that book has Matt described to a T.

This is how I feel, even though it does come off as being harsh toward a guy who is legitimately injured.

Falcons fans said Schaub wasn't mobile enough, but I thought they were comparing him to Vick and/or talking about Matt's scrambling abilities.

Turns out, it appears they were talking about his in-pocket mobility.

He tends to hunch down, pull the ball down, and start stutter-stepping when he gets pressured. The result is that he stays in the same spot and the pocket has collapsed around him. He's still going through his progressions, but he's in no shape to throw the ball...which then leads to questionable throws and/or sacks and fumbles.

Defenses like Pittsburgh and Minnesota that get a good push up the middle, and the edge rushers starting wide and bull rushing, can pinch the pocket and trap Schaub. It ain't rocket science...

Marcus
11-04-2008, 10:53 AM
I think the odds are very low for Schaub to return. If I were in Vegas I would place a large wager on IR. I bet we don't see him the rest of the year. I know what BS they are spewing, but I'm not buying 4 weeks, although I hope I am wrong.

I absolutely agree with Porky on this one. If there is one thing that Kubiak rubs me the wrong way on, it's this constant misleading that he does with the status of players' injuries. I have had an MRI done 3 times. Each and every single time, there is a written detailed report.

Just read the ********* report, Gary!

Honoring Earl 34
11-04-2008, 11:09 AM
This is how I feel, even though it does come off as being harsh toward a guy who is legitimately injured.

Falcons fans said Schaub wasn't mobile enough, but I thought they were comparing him to Vick and/or talking about Matt's scrambling abilities.

Turns out, it appears they were talking about his in-pocket mobility.

He tends to hunch down, pull the ball down, and start stutter-stepping when he gets pressured. The result is that he stays in the same spot and the pocket has collapsed around him. He's still going through his progressions, but he's in no shape to throw the ball...which then leads to questionable throws and/or sacks and fumbles.

Defenses like Pittsburgh and Minnesota that get a good push up the middle, and the edge rushers starting wide and bull rushing, can pinch the pocket and trap Schaub. It ain't rocket science...

I guess the best way to describe Schaub's athletism is he's the sg/sf white dude on the end of a junior college basketball teams bench .

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=58687&draftyear=2004&genpos=QB

texan9885
11-04-2008, 11:12 AM
Schaub has better line and more weapons...Imagine if a more moblie QB more durable Qb had the line, weapons and running game that Schaub has.

I think any QB would go into the fetal position behind the o-lines Carr played behind.

what happened in carolina then, he sucked there too, enough said

Norg
11-04-2008, 11:18 AM
well hurt or not bottom line is Matt does us no good on the sidelines

he didnt have a steller report card so farr

Pitts-Killed
Tenn-PLayed better yet got beat
Jax-PLayed even
Indy-Didnt play
Fins-PLayed even
Lions-PLayed average aganis the lions
Bengals-PLayed lights out football
Minn-PLayed half injured
wk10-OUT
wk11-OUT
wk12-OUT
wk13-OUT

seeing how nice our GM is and coach he will prob be next year and be is last chance only gets 3 chances

DiehardChris
11-04-2008, 11:30 AM
Commented!

Glad you're bringing some attention to this, Steph. Great work as always.

Did I see somewhere that Kubiak has in fact sumbitted the dirty plays to the league?

Mailman
11-04-2008, 11:37 AM
Did I see somewhere that Kubiak has in fact sumbitted the dirty plays to the league?

Yes.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/6093274.html

Goldensilence
11-04-2008, 11:56 AM
Phillip Rivers basically played two games with a torn ACL

Schaub can't take a hit legal or otherwise.

I think this seals his career in Houston. Option probably won't get picked up at the end of the year

Matt has one more year. Next year is the option year but I'm wondering if Matt isn't back in 4-5 weeks if we don't start to consider alternative long term plans for QB in Houston. I hate saying that as a realistic possibility considering what we've given up to get him in Houston, but it's something I'm thinking might not be that far off.

CloakNNNdagger
11-04-2008, 11:59 AM
Here is the cheap shot Jared Allen video. Watch it while you can before the NFL pulls the video. Please please please leave comments to make it a bigger, more searchable story. If this had happened to a QB from a more high profile franchise, the real media would be all over it.

FanHouse: Did Jared Allen Cheap Shot Matt Schaub (http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2008/11/03/did-jared-allen-cheap-shot-matt-schaub/)

The slo mo part is scary. It shows how badly the line got destroyed. It was amazing that Schaub got the ball off and had a completion. And it also shows how cheap that hit was.

Please leave a comment. Don't have to leave a real email and even if you did, they don't do anything with them. Just like the offensive line needs to make a fuss, so do Texan fans.

BTW, shortly after that play, Jared Allen got his shoulder hurt some after he was driven to the ground by one of the Olinemen.

TC,

You might be interested to check out what Vikings fans are saying about Allen's hit....................sounds more like OUR MB. http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=63&f=1554&t=3328306

GP
11-04-2008, 12:05 PM
Yes.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/6093274.html

Did you see Richard Justice's piece on Kubiak not raising his game?

Wow. Justice mentions Kubiak wearing a headset and walking around with the play sheet...Justice is pointing toward what he feels is confusion because Kubiak can override playcalls, meaning there's too many chiefs and not enough indians.

Kinda' agree with him. Kubiak hasn't let go of his long tenure as an OC, and he's muddying the waters. If he'd relax and let Shanny Jr. call the plays, Kubiak could manage games, manage the clock, look for ways to adjust on the fly, and just generally be a coach of the coaches and players. Instead, he's delaying the play getting onto the field to the QB. He's disconnected in every area but playcalling.

Couple this with his inability to watch game-deciding field goals or big plays at big points in the game, and you really do have to wonder what the hell is going on here.

(Sigh)

This is a mess, guys. When CloakNdagger said "manufactured excitement" a few weeks ago, a lot of you skewered him for it. I think this is what he meant: We see a temporary step forward and we get excited about it, not understanding that there is something lurking deep down thats going to come forth in the future.

The Texans players didn't give up after 0-4 to start the season. They fought back and won the next 4...and in the Cincy game you saw or players yucking it up on the sidelines and celebrating. They were thrilled. Gone were the days of hanging their heads, of AJ not completing his routes and just slinking off the field with a no-give-a-crap attitude. No, we had just blasted our third-straight team and we were BACK!

I'm sick and tired of mediocrity. And the fact that our team continues to not be able to put mediocrity behind them, is a sign that the coaching regime is failing to hold them accountable. OK, you can't run a pro player for 30 laps when you get back to Houston after the Vikings trip. But players have to believe enough in the head coach that they sincerely desire to stop missing key blocks, they desire to not throw an interception in key points of the game and in crucial areas of the field, they just in-general want to make their coach proud and play hard for them.

Cowher had that sort of presence on his teams. Nobody wanted to let him down. Nobody. The great coaches find a way to make their players care above and beyond the normal level of caring.

Is Kubiak inspiring that on both sides of the ball? We hear the talk, and a lot of comes from Chester Pitts, but why aren't they walking the walk? Maybe at the end of the day...Kubiak isn't a guy they really 100% play for.

GP
11-04-2008, 12:12 PM
TC,

You might be interested to check out what Vikings fans are saying about Allen's hit....................sounds more like OUR MB. http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=63&f=1554&t=3328306

GREAT find, Cloak.

Everybody go check out the link he provided.

Even the Vikings fans, the majority, are saying it was dirty. I'm glad to see there's some level of decency left in the world--For the opposing team's fans to admit their own player was cheap-shotting? That's a class act by those fans.

Texans_Chick
11-04-2008, 12:18 PM
Did you see Richard Justice's piece on Kubiak not raising his game?

Wow. Justice mentions Kubiak wearing a headset and walking around with the play sheet...Justice is pointing toward what he feels is confusion because Kubiak can override playcalls, meaning there's too many chiefs and not enough indians.

Kinda' agree with him. Kubiak hasn't let go of his long tenure as an OC, and he's muddying the waters. If he'd relax and let Shanny Jr. call the plays, Kubiak could manage games, manage the clock, look for ways to adjust on the fly, and just generally be a coach of the coaches and players. Instead, he's delaying the play getting onto the field to the QB. He's disconnected in every area but playcalling.

Couple this with his inability to watch game-deciding field goals or big plays at big points in the game, and you really do have to wonder what the hell is going on here.

(Sigh)

This is a mess, guys. When CloakNdagger said "manufactured excitement" a few weeks ago, a lot of you skewered him for it. I think this is what he meant: We see a temporary step forward and we get excited about it, not understanding that there is something lurking deep down thats going to come forth in the future.

The Texans players didn't give up after 0-4 to start the season. They fought back and won the next 4...and in the Cincy game you saw or players yucking it up on the sidelines and celebrating. They were thrilled. Gone were the days of hanging their heads, of AJ not completing his routes and just slinking off the field with a no-give-a-crap attitude. No, we had just blasted our third-straight team and we were BACK!

I'm sick and tired of mediocrity. And the fact that our team continues to not be able to put mediocrity behind them, is a sign that the coaching regime is failing to hold them accountable. OK, you can't run a pro player for 30 laps when you get back to Houston after the Vikings trip. But players have to believe enough in the head coach that they sincerely desire to stop missing key blocks, they desire to not throw an interception in key points of the game and in crucial areas of the field, they just in-general want to make their coach proud and play hard for them.

Cowher had that sort of presence on his teams. Nobody wanted to let him down. Nobody. The great coaches find a way to make their players care above and beyond the normal level of caring.

Is Kubiak inspiring that on both sides of the ball? We hear the talk, and a lot of comes from Chester Pitts, but why aren't they walking the walk? Maybe at the end of the day...Kubiak isn't a guy they really 100% play for.

I never listen to anything that Richard Justice says about the Texans. Because usually he is talking out of his behind. He is too right brained, wishy-washy, not-fact based and rollercoastery for my taste. With the Alex Gibbs critique he made in the preseason, he eventually did admit that he knew no information in fact that the players did not like Gibbs. And yeah, the players say they think he is good.

I've talked to a lot of players with the team. Kubiak has a lot of fans among his players. Guys that can't say enough good things about what he has them doing. They believe in him. Yeah, they need to start showing more of that in Ws.

Hardcore Texan
11-04-2008, 12:18 PM
I think this video is just sickening. He gets up off his knees and lunges at Schaub's. Wow, Allen is incredibly dirty

No kidding, but you get what you give, it will come back to bite him in the a$$.

powerfuldragon
11-04-2008, 12:30 PM
I don't know what the third hit is that Kubiak referred to.

found it for ya...

On the Texans’ last drive, Allen pulled down Rosenfels from behind for an 8-yard sack.
According to the Texans, the play was close to a horse collar.
from the chron, end of first little section... http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/6093274.html

GP
11-04-2008, 12:59 PM
I never listen to anything that Richard Justice says about the Texans. Because usually he is talking out of his behind. He is too right brained, wishy-washy, not-fact based and rollercoastery for my taste. With the Alex Gibbs critique he made in the preseason, he eventually did admit that he knew no information in fact that the players did not like Gibbs. And yeah, the players say they think he is good.

I've talked to a lot of players with the team. Kubiak has a lot of fans among his players. Guys that can't say enough good things about what he has them doing. They believe in him. Yeah, they need to start showing more of that in Ws.

I haven't liked quite a bit of what he writes...but I can't throw the baby out with the bath water.

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes (Please...no VY jokes) and so I think what he wrote about Kubiak is at least possible.

TC, you're in a hard situation because you have access to players. You have the blog thang going on. I know you don't want to ruffle feathers, especially with the guy at the top. But do you HONESTLY believe that Kubiak has what it takes to elevate this team to playoff AND Super Bowl contention?

I don't. He got us out of a deep hole, but now what? I don't see signs that he's thrown the grappling hook to the next plateau, and is yanking us up to the top of it with him. It's just not there, is it?

And before we talk defensive coordinator...Kubiak signed off on him, has kept him, and probably isn't going to let him go at the end of the season. Again. And it's another dent in the armor of Kubiak for me.

Mailman
11-04-2008, 02:19 PM
Quick question:

Kubes said Schaub was originally hurt on the first series of the game right? Was that hit a cheap shot as well?

You be the judge. Apologies for the crappy video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDbREIjpukk

powerfuldragon
11-04-2008, 02:41 PM
You be the judge. Apologies for the crappy video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDbREIjpukk

kudos on using karma police.

Marcus
11-04-2008, 02:44 PM
I haven't liked quite a bit of what he writes...but I can't throw the baby out with the bath water.

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes (Please...no VY jokes) and so I think what he wrote about Kubiak is at least possible.

TC, you're in a hard situation because you have access to players. You have the blog thang going on. I know you don't want to ruffle feathers, especially with the guy at the top. But do you HONESTLY believe that Kubiak has what it takes to elevate this team to playoff AND Super Bowl contention?

I don't. He got us out of a deep hole, but now what? I don't see signs that he's thrown the grappling hook to the next plateau, and is yanking us up to the top of it with him. It's just not there, is it?

And before we talk defensive coordinator...Kubiak signed off on him, has kept him, and probably isn't going to let him go at the end of the season. Again. And it's another dent in the armor of Kubiak for me.

So, what to you want to do? Fire him? Or am I misinterepreting?

New_Texans
11-04-2008, 02:48 PM
kudos on using karma police.

lol yeah, made me smile.

*hence avatar*

Texans_Chick
11-04-2008, 03:19 PM
TC, you're in a hard situation because you have access to players. You have the blog thang going on. I know you don't want to ruffle feathers, especially with the guy at the top. But do you HONESTLY believe that Kubiak has what it takes to elevate this team to playoff AND Super Bowl contention?



I only get access to players because I go to events and talk to people. I don't have media access. I also hear a lot of gossip because people know I actually care.

If I thought Kubiak needed to be canned, I would say such a thing. I have said that Richard Smith should be canned. In fact, I believe I've written the definitive essay on why that is the case. I'm sure I've written plenty of things that have ruffled feathers.

I think in a pass oriented league, Kubiak coaching the team is an asset. With this collection of players, he has done more with less than I think just about any coach in the league. Even with the mistakes, you can see what is possible.

All head coaches make mistakes. His mistakes are pretty glaring right now because this is a try hard team that has little room for error. The offense can't afford to goon because the defense will likely allow 28+ points.

Right now there are place holding players all over the team, and a lot of players who are still needing to develop.

On defense, there is no excuse for being that bad for that long. If you could point to anything in Richard Smith's career that would make you believe he could fix this, that might be one thing. But his time with the Texans has been atrocious--the only light at the end of the tunnel you see with this defense is a train.

Double Barrel
11-04-2008, 03:41 PM
I still hold Kubiak responsible for hiring Richard Smith and keeping him as DC. That is all on Kubiak's shoulders.

Texans_Chick
11-04-2008, 04:06 PM
I still hold Kubiak responsible for hiring Richard Smith and keeping him as DC. That is all on Kubiak's shoulders.

I do not hold him responsible for hiring Richard Smith. There weren't many good options available and he wasn't their first choice. Most of the other options have already been canned from the jobs they got that year.

I would have liked him to have fired Smith this last season. With all the injuries last year to the secondary, it might have seemed unfair to some.

In year three, I see it as a no brainer. Of course, the sports writers of our fair city would rather talk about things other than how atrocious the defense is. It's like the house is on fire, and they are saying, hey, look at how bright things are!

Mailman
11-04-2008, 04:42 PM
Can someone explain the idiocy of the PFT goobers who think Jared Allen "slipped" right before his second patellar dive?

"Whoops, sorry 'bout cracking on your knee dude, I must've slipped on this slick turf. Totally an accident..."

:thinking:

CoastalTexan
11-04-2008, 06:18 PM
Isn't this zone system supposed to be ruthless. If someone cheap shots a qb, next play get that dude on the ground screaming about his knee. Simple solution, if it takes 15 yards it takes 15 yards. They are going at our qb trying to get him out for the season, we need to do the same to the d-lines. We haven't struck fear into any defensive players, if we do that, running lanes will open and the qb will have more time.

Texans_Chick
11-04-2008, 06:36 PM
Isn't this zone system supposed to be ruthless. If someone cheap shots a qb, next play get that dude on the ground screaming about his knee. Simple solution, if it takes 15 yards it takes 15 yards. They are going at our qb trying to get him out for the season, we need to do the same to the d-lines. We haven't struck fear into any defensive players, if we do that, running lanes will open and the qb will have more time.

Allen has a messed up AC joint in his shoulder. It is likely due to Briesel slamming him to the turf during a running play. Shortly after that, IIRC, Allen came out of the game with his shoulder problem and had to get a painkilling shot at the half.

And I admit when he came out of the game holding his shoulder, I was happy. Not because it might make it easier for my team. But because I was angry at the shots he took low. I hate to wish bad things to player, but I'm just being honest.

CoastalTexan
11-04-2008, 06:59 PM
He can still deliver cheap shots to our QB with a messed up shoulder, go lower.

Texans_Chick
11-04-2008, 07:04 PM
He can still deliver cheap shots to our QB with a messed up shoulder, go lower.

True. It's not like he even trying to tackle with his arms. He just launched his helmet.

CloakNNNdagger
11-04-2008, 07:07 PM
Isn't this zone system supposed to be ruthless. If someone cheap shots a qb, next play get that dude on the ground screaming about his knee. Simple solution, if it takes 15 yards it takes 15 yards. They are going at our qb trying to get him out for the season, we need to do the same to the d-lines. We haven't struck fear into any defensive players, if we do that, running lanes will open and the qb will have more time.

The only running lanes we have opened up so far is the one leading to our QB.

J-Russ
11-04-2008, 07:30 PM
Allen has a messed up AC joint in his shoulder. It is likely due to Briesel slamming him to the turf during a running play. Shortly after that, IIRC, Allen came out of the game with his shoulder problem and had to get a painkilling shot at the half.

And I admit when he came out of the game holding his shoulder, I was happy. Not because it might make it easier for my team. But because I was angry at the shots he took low. I hate to wish bad things to player, but I'm just being honest.

This is going to sound horrible, but I wish someone would've finished him after that initial injury. Maybe Duane could've chopped block him then Pitts go down and put him in an armbar and rip his arm off or something.

The1ApplePie
11-04-2008, 08:40 PM
Isn't this zone system supposed to be ruthless. If someone cheap shots a qb, next play get that dude on the ground screaming about his knee. Simple solution, if it takes 15 yards it takes 15 yards. They are going at our qb trying to get him out for the season, we need to do the same to the d-lines. We haven't struck fear into any defensive players, if we do that, running lanes will open and the qb will have more time.

That was back in 1998 when this style of zone-blocking was still effective. The NFL has really cracked down on it and Gibbs' style doesn't really work anymore.

Honoring Earl 34
11-04-2008, 08:48 PM
that was back in 1998 when this style of zone-blocking was still effective. The nfl has really cracked down on it and gibbs' style doesn't really work anymore.

Oh ... now you tell us .

Texans_Chick
11-04-2008, 09:10 PM
The only running lanes we have opened up so far is the one leading to our QB.

The offensive line has been effective in spots. They really struggle on the road. Myers is not looking comfortable at all at center. Some of the shotgun snaps were a little wonky.

The Vikings' line embarrasses a lot of teams. So does the Titans' line. Texans have to figure stuff up--I hate for them to get so pass happy when facing all that pass rush.

When Schaub got hurt against the Titans last year, the play call was Schaub incomplete pass (he got barely knocked down after throwing the ball). Next play knocked him out.

When the other team is bringing the house like that, I'd like to see them hand off the ball even if it is for small gain just to keep the defenses honest.

CoastalTexan
11-04-2008, 10:30 PM
A 15 yard penalty is temporary, their top pass rusher out for the game is more devastating, they gotta do what they gotta do. I'm tired of the Texans being the dork on the school yard, its time for them to start retaliating.

Norg
11-04-2008, 11:55 PM
someone needed to help brown tho we needed to double team Allen all game we knew he was going to be a threat

CloakNNNdagger
11-05-2008, 06:43 AM
The offensive line has been effective in spots. They really struggle on the road. Myers is not looking comfortable at all at center. Some of the shotgun snaps were a little wonky.

The Vikings' line embarrasses a lot of teams. So does the Titans' line. Texans have to figure stuff up--I hate for them to get so pass happy when facing all that pass rush.

When Schaub got hurt against the Titans last year, the play call was Schaub incomplete pass (he got barely knocked down after throwing the ball). Next play knocked him out.

When the other team is bringing the house like that, I'd like to see them hand off the ball even if it is for small gain just to keep the defenses honest.


The way I've seen it since preseason is that for whatever reason, Meyers has not been able to hold his own. He is routinely pushed back or pushed aside. And the simple truth is, when that occurs in our ZBS, it makes the guards on either side of him look terrible also.........making them look totally inadequate, the ZBS ineffective and the OL as a whole incompetent.

Malloy
11-05-2008, 07:11 AM
The way I've seen it since preseason is that for whatever reason, Meyers has not been able to hold his own. He is routinely pushed back or pushed aside. And the simple truth is, when that occurs in our ZBS, it makes the guards on either side of him look terrible also.........making them look totally inadequate, the ZBS ineffective and the OL as a whole incompetent.

Would it hurt the ZBS in principle if we found a larger center?

CloakNNNdagger
11-05-2008, 07:55 AM
Would it hurt the ZBS in principle if we found a larger center?

Classically, Meyers' weight (293 lbs) is appropriate. But Meyers does not play like at a "strong" 293. The size of the DLs around the league have increased significantly since the inception of the ZBS concept. NFL rules have placed limitations on the ZBS. Even the Broncos, who maintain their centers at around 290 have not exactly blown up the league any more. If you are going to pit larger and larger players against your center, while keeping your center at the same weight, the center better be increasing his strength proportionately. Or you better be looking for a center with more bulk while expecting him to maintain the same necessary mobility.

Malloy
11-05-2008, 08:34 AM
Now I dont know what the average center size is, but to me 293 SOUNDS like alot, but what do I know :)

Would he be able to bulk up even more, or is the 293lbs considered his limit. What I mean to say, can he gain more power/weight or should we start looking for another center alltogether?

bigbrewster2000
11-05-2008, 02:05 PM
I left my 2 cents there TC, its good to see that you have like 55 comments now. Hopefully that will help out some. The league needs to do something here. There is very little doubt in my mind that the hit was illegal, and teetering on cheap shot at least. Especially when adding in a few other plays in the game.

Open your eyes NFL.

worldlyman
11-05-2008, 08:12 PM
I never listen to anything that Richard Justice says about the Texans. Because usually he is talking out of his behind. He is too right brained, wishy-washy, not-fact based and rollercoastery for my taste.

Richard Justice is...to say it politely...a non-sensical writer (an *****...ha!). Recall that useless piece he wrote a couple months ago how Houston sports gets embarrassed by Dallas teams in recent times. It really didn't make sense...then I had to remind him that the Houston Dynamo beat FC Dallas twice en route to the soccer championships (that aspect he left out)!

And to say Justice is too right-brained...nah. I have a degree in graphic design and he's not even capable of artistic cognition. I recall a few years ago when he even bashed the Texans uniforms! Saying that they looked weak or lousy compared to that of the Cowboys and Packers. The Packers? Green Bay has the most boring uniform and colors in all of the NFL, short of the Browns. Maybe some of their fans see a beauty in their colors and design attached to that tradition...but those Pack unis are dreadful and old, design and color-wise.

The Texans uniforms are modern, sleek and a basic color scheme is used effectively to convey the team name. They look good to go whether they wear their white, red or blue jerseys (just as long as it's not the mono jersey/trouser combo).

And the Dallas Cowboys? Their uniforms only look..."classy"...when they wear white. Nice uniform colors but something about their blue jerseys which takes something away, in my opinion.

But indeed, Richard Justice:spit:.

And to add my two cents to this Jared Allen thing...what a punk ass. It looked like he didn't care if the ball was gone or not...he was going for the knees, seconds later than necessary.