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View Full Version : Projects, Building, Next Year, ............


HoustonFrog
11-02-2008, 09:48 PM
I've been on this board so many years and every year I see alot of the same thing. Draft picks like Duane Brown and Amobe as being projects or in the works. Yet I see rookies on other teams excel. There is always this feeling of, "we are in phase 2 of this project" and give them another year. I don't know, why is a team that is having so many problems since their start always going after projects or guys who might round out and not guys that look to fill a talent void. Why is there always a work in progress overall. The excuses have to stop at some point. If guys like McClain are constantly on the radio saying we can't do certain things on D, etc because we don't have the guys....why don't we have them?

Sorry for the ramblings but something doesn't fit. I'm not saying Brown isn't going to work out but it seems like the Texans always have works in progress.

BSofA04
11-02-2008, 10:01 PM
It's a reflection on our coaching staff. IMO, the word "project" can be used as an excuse for an under-performing high draft pick. I'm personally not a fan of the "project" pick in the first round.

Runner
11-02-2008, 10:20 PM
One reason that they are always "rebuilding" is that the Texans don't do a good job of developing young players, especially behind vets.

For instance, when the Texans had an aging o-line they brought in players like Flanagan and Bedell from Green Bay instead of a younger player who could learn while someone like McKinney could still play. Those players did little to nothing on the field and hurt the long term development of the team. Same with Salaam - they kept him and started the rookie in front of him rather than keeping someone who could legitimately have started in front of the rook while he learned. That didn't turn out too well.

In many cases young players don't get a chance to develop with the Texans, unless they are over paid first round pciks - then they get year after year.

steelbtexan
11-02-2008, 10:28 PM
Is Travis Johnson still considered a project?

LOL

Norg
11-02-2008, 10:39 PM
i think because in 2005 we have had a major team overall

all the orginal guys and most of there promising rookies we fired or let go of all of them

Guyz like

Tony Boselli
David Carr
Jason Babin
Dom Capers
Marcus Coleman-DWI
Domanick Williams RB-WHo refused to play for us in 06 even tho he was healthy
Jabar Gaffney-who we let got to the pats
Steve McKinney-Bless his heart LOL
Aaron Glenn

and the list goes on and on of players who just couldnt cut it from 03-05 so we did a total team overhall in 05-06

and here we are today ..... still with problems and holes to fill IMO this and most of our draft picks have sucked in 03 04 and 05

Bennie Joppru Tight end Michigan
3/67 Antwan Peek Linebacker Cincinnati
3/75 (from New England) Seth Wand Offensive tackle NW Missouri State
3/88 (from Atlanta) Dave Ragone Quarterback Louisville

Drew Henson Quarterback Michigan
6/214 Keith Wright Defensive tackle Missouri
7/217 Curry Burns Defensive back Louisville
7/233 Chance Pearce Center Texas A&M
Jason Babin Defensive end Western Michigan
4/122 (from Indianapolis) Glenn Earl Strong Safety Notre Dame
6/170 Vontez Duff Defensive back Notre Dame
6/175 (from Jacksonville) Jammal Lord Running back Nebraska
7/210 Raheem Orr Linebacker Rutgers
7/211 Sloan Thomas Wide receiver Texas
7/248 B.J. Symons Quarterback Texas Tech
Travis Johnson Defensive tackle Florida State
3/73 (from Dallas) Vernand Morency
Brandon Harrison- WHo got hurt

Dominique Barber- Also another saftey who got hurt

Alex brink - WAsted pick


Just alot of bad calls IMO there has been some gems over the years but not alot

HoustonFrog
11-03-2008, 07:17 AM
What bugs me is that we skip a guy like Patrick Willis and say we need D-line help so we take a "raw" DT and then have years of built in excuses if he doesn't do well....he should be still in college, he is young and learning, etc. Then don't take him. Your team sucks. Take a ready for primetime athlete. They got tricky trading down this year and said they targeted Brown. Yeah there is a huge learning curve at LT but lets say this is a problem next year...are we going to say he is learning a new system and let him develop. The excuse just has to stop. This league has teams making jumps yearly and yet we idle in neutral with the excuse that the system is being implemented or the guys are developing.

Runner
11-03-2008, 07:36 AM
So what do they do at LT next year? The rookie Brown is a high draft pick so he automatically is the starter. However, he struggles at times and can't play a full game without frequent and regular breaks. Salaam is showing his age and I don't like him as the backup. Will he be back next year? Should he? Hanging onto aging vets hurts the Texans growth. I think they need a younger, still veteran, player to take his spot.

HJam72
11-03-2008, 07:38 AM
I think a lot of the problem, believe it or not, is our newness in the greater scheme of things. This team has never had all the pieces in place to draft players that could sit and learn behind the veterans. It always (OK, usually) needed to use those picks for "right now" players, ready or not. I think the good news about this team right now is that it finally has good depth in a lot of places, but it still lacks REAL starters in some areas. It also lacks a true starting QB, IMO, but many teams have that problem.

One way or another, the secondary has to get better. This team will always be frustrating and look amateurish at times during games until that is addressed successfully. If we can't keep the best WR on most of our opponent's teams from getting behind and outrunning coverage several times a game against some CB who ALSO gives us no hope that he will make a formidable fight for the ball IF he ever manages to catch up, then we will never put anyone away....and they will always have a shot at putting us away at anytime in the game. I know it's not all about 1-on-1 CB on WR coverage, but the secondary has to SHUT THAT CRAP DOWN, or else.

HJam72
11-03-2008, 07:41 AM
How much would we fear an opponent who did not give (adequate) safety help on Andre Johnson and tried to cover him with Reeves or Faggins? SEE YA!

Kaiser Toro
11-03-2008, 07:43 AM
I believe Brown is going to be a very good LT in this league. Right now I would consider him an average LT in is first year.

HoustonFrog
11-03-2008, 07:46 AM
I think a lot of the problem, believe it or not, is our newness in the greater scheme of things. This team has never had all the pieces in place to draft players that could sit and learn behind the veterans. It always (OK, usually) needed to use those picks for "right now" players, ready or not. I think the good news about this team right now is that it finally has good depth in a lot of places, but it still lacks REAL starters in some areas. It also lacks a true starting QB, IMO, but many teams have that problem.

One way or another, the secondary has to get better. This team will always be frustrating and look amateurish at times during games until that is addressed successfully. If we can't keep the best WR on most of our opponent's teams from getting behind and outrunning coverage several times a game against some CB who ALSO gives us no hope that he will make a formidable fight for the ball IF he ever manages to catch up, then we will never put anyone away....and they will always have a shot at putting us away at anytime in the game. I know it's not all about 1-on-1 CB on WR coverage, but the secondary has to SHUT THAT CRAP DOWN, or else.

And it seems we have passed on legit corners in the draft. Hopefully one of the ones we have will develop like Molden.

I see what you are saying in your first paragraph but there are plenty of bad teams that turn it around and make runs and they have the same problems. They just seem to gain some game changers and right now we have yet to do that and seem to concentrate on guys who "might" be a top player.

UK_Texan
11-03-2008, 07:46 AM
I understand what is being said regarding the issue of the team constantly a building project, but possibly this year going through to the beginning of next year is massive for us. The acuqasition of Slaton has proved it worth but i feel that they should be doing more with their draft picks and trades in the off season. This time next i hope to be looking back on a very succesful opening to the season and i dont think the answer lyes with firing all the staff/coaches but rather making good player selections.

Malloy
11-03-2008, 07:50 AM
So what do they do at LT next year? The rookie Brown is a high draft pick so he automatically is the starter. However, he struggles at times and can't play a full game without frequent and regular breaks. Salaam is showing his age and I don't like him as the backup. Will he be back next year? Should he? Hanging onto aging vets hurts the Texans growth. I think they need a younger, still veteran, player to take his spot.

Think you're pretty much spot on. We're at a tough spot as a team, we have to move ahead in player quality which means spending more money on proven not-too-old veterans, these are the expensive players in this league. Its a risk, it needs to be taken but we have to realize that there is a chance that it won't work and we'll put ourselves in salery cap hell.

I posted this in another thread (well I mentioned it), I look forward to getting a new D-coordinator during the off-season, also, and this is my personal opinion based on what I see as the biggest problem with this team, I think that we need to pay out way out of the secondary woes. We need to whip out ~15mil on the proven veteran but still competetive players for our secondary, then let our young prospects in the secondary learn from them instead of learning from Faggins and Reeves.

Will it work? It might or might not, but in order for us to take 'the next step' as a team (this step meaning us having playing veterans + young prospects learning) we NEED to take a chance.

HJam72
11-03-2008, 07:53 AM
I had this wild idea last night about making Reeves a WR, because he just might actually look for the ball then and he has the speed (don't know about his hands). You think that's crazy? I also had the idea that we have one player that might shut down the secondary problems: Andre Johnson. :mcnugget: Of course, I imagine picks all over the place, but it's a pipe-dream.

Runner
11-03-2008, 08:42 AM
I'm not advocating the Texans pick up a high priced tackle. I do think they need to find a competent replacement for Salaam though. An injury to Winston or Brown would be devastating.

Malloy
11-03-2008, 08:46 AM
I'm not advocating the Texans pick up a high priced tackle. I do think they need to find a competent replacement for Salaam though. An injury to Winston or Brown would be devastating.

The problem is that if you want a decent veteran player with gas left in the tank, you'll have to willing to spend some money because everyone else wants these kind of players too.

Now the type of player(s) needed, secondary to help the rush, or a DE to help the secondary. Thats up to the coaches to deside because I have no clue :)

HOU-TEX
11-03-2008, 08:48 AM
IMO, it's turnovers and our "vanilla" defense that has been the topic of conversation for the past 2-3 years.

It's like f-ing Ground Hog Day year in and year out. Opening game = Hey look, we turned the ball over 5 times and gave up 50 points and 700 yards..............Fast forward to the following season's opening game = Hey look, we turned the ball over 5 times and gave up 50 points and 700 yards.

WooHoo!

HoustonFrog
11-03-2008, 08:52 AM
IMO, it's turnovers and our "vanilla" defense that has been the topic of conversation for the past 2-3 years.

It's like f-ing Ground Hog Day year in and year out. Opening game = Hey look, we turned the ball over 5 times and gave up 50 points and 700 yards..............Fast forward to the following season's opening game = Hey look, we turned the ball over 5 times and gave up 50 points and 700 yards.

WooHoo!

I think that goes to coaching. You can keep drilling the turnover thing into their head and all. If it happens one season it is just a bad season, if it happens every season, something is wrong. As for the defense...that goes to my original point above..the excuse that we don't have the players to run more exotic defenses or blitz..b.s. And if you can't, then why haven't they been in place after 3 years.

beerlover
11-03-2008, 11:07 AM
so many topics within one thread. I'll try to break some of it down as I see it.

turnovers- are caused by not just poor decision making they are created because the running game is just window dressing, Schaub/Sage are often forced to throw the ball into prevent defenses, tight coverages with blitz packages coming from all directions. -8 turnover ratio- three of those come directly off interceptions, five off QB fumbles Schaub has lost 3 & Sage 2. no fumbles or turnovers from the RB position so if the Texans really want to cut down turnovers they have to run the ball. one would figure if they could they would but not without playmakers or quality depth after Slaton (banger inside the tackles to punish those big uglies). this needs to be addressed via the draft early. look at the Titans, who have spent multiple picks in the 1st & 2nd rds the past three drafts & they have a +10 turnover ratio.

Passing game vs. Running game- passing offense total yards 5th in the league while rushing 16th. these are deceptive numbers. the passing yards have not translated into points, 13 tds in 8 games? 1.6 per game does not translate into a great passing offense unless you pick up the slack running the ball, but thats not the case only 8 tds on the season or one per contest. thats not an effeicent scoring offense for the 4th overall ranked offense in the NFL. very misleading. the scoring offense needs to be twice as effective running the ball & still improved passing. scoring offense is in fact 12th, take out special teams (2) & Reeves INT (1) the Texans drop down to 15th or middle of the pack. again look at Tennessee they are ranked only 11th in scoring one ahead of the Texans but 15 of their td's are from rushing.

defense- plenty of high picks here in the trenches on the corners & in the middle why such poor results? Is it the coordinator Richard Smith? he deserves at least a good portion of blame, but the cupboards weren't excatly well stocked three years ago so essentally still an expansion franchise five years after the fact. so a big part of the blame also lies with the aquistion (salary cap) & evaluation (scouting) of talent. players who have or are falling well short of expectations via the free agent market Anthony Weaver, Ahman Green, Morlon Greenwood, Jacques Reeves etc......or who left via free agency Danny Clark has been exceptional for the Giants but was not valued here? statsicly the Texans are not ranked as bad as one might think @ #17th ahead of da bears @ #18 which leads me back to turnovers & short field situations. regardless the opposing offense is effeicent enough to score off those turnovers dropping all the way down to 25th allowed scoring 12 each off rushing tds / passing tds equally bad. Titans are #1 in the NFL in this category, not surprising they have not lost either.

Rebuilding has to begin with the roster & salary cap, cut the pork. we all know who has to go but will the organization move forward deceively? I cannot imagine Richard Smith being fired unless a better option becomes available, I think he gets one more year to fix his 4-3 scheme. with some elbow room salary cap wise I also expect Rick Smith to spend accordingly with a top DE like Terrell Suggs a proven still young pass rushing specialist. I could make the arguement the Texans have used the draft to address needs over bpa approach which can also catch-up with the overall talent of the team. also trading away all those draft picks in trades for P Buc (so far has not helped Oakland 2nd & 3rd) Tennessee (2nd, 3rd, 4th has helped them retool salary cap) for Babin & of course Schaub (two 2nds) look at how Atlanta was able to rebuild even after losing Vick.

Next Year I would like to see the DL add a DT & DE one via the draft one via free agency who could start, not a depth/role player a three down starter. next a ball hawking OLB with good length in coverage & outside speed, in this case most likely a high (1st/2rd) draft pick depending on bpa approach. don't discount taking a RB in high either if he is bpa. anybody mind a Clinton Portis type of RB to add alongside Slaton? here is a sleeper pick for ya @ TE - Bruener is not getting any younger (last season) Dreesen is his aire apparent but I'm sorry his blocking downfield is inconsistant at best not to mention on the edge covering the tackle helping chip the end. this is an exceptional draft for TE's if the top rated TE (Brandon Pettigrew Oklahoma State) in the first when the Texans select, without even seeing the board he should be the bpa & be an instant upgrade to the Texans. he can really mix it up on the line in the trenches like a LT, is excellent downfield in blocking assingments & is a tremendous big target with soft hands to compliment Owen Daniels who is more often than not split outside like a WR. or in the 2nd rd, Jermaine Gresham these are complete TE & would help add balance to the offensive sets. since I've been listing the Titans (yeah I know) as a model to follow might as well finish strong did you know their leading receiver is TE Bo Scaife & biggest offseason free agent aquisition TE Alge Crumpler?

In summary its a building process that is a work in progress. I see major roster changes coming but little coaching wise, at least for one more year after that all bets are off :twocents:

BigBull17
11-03-2008, 11:20 AM
The rough part about running the ball more is we have so much talent in the pass game its hard to justify. Our 3-4 deep are pretty damn good. Anderson would be a slot guy on alot of teams, and can only sniff the feld due to injury.

steelbtexan
11-03-2008, 12:13 PM
BL

I agree with your opinions on the state of the Texans.

If we cant get Haynesworth I would like to see Smithiak spend the money in FA on a CB.

The Radiers Cb would be a great FA pickup.

More realistically I believe Chris Gamble is going to be on the open market & with Peppers also being a FA they cant tag him.

4 years & 30 mil. should do the trick.

I am going to post in the draft section what I would do this offseason later today.

Check it out & see what you think.

Runner
11-03-2008, 12:14 PM
Cedric Benson ran for 104 yards on 24 carries with a long of 30 and a touchdown yesterday. This is a player the Texans could have picked up at low cost, but instead they kept Green. This is an example my point that they keep older players to the detriment of the team.

Another thread points to the importance of the running game when trying to win on the road. The Texans could use a decent back to support Slaton. Instead they have Green, who is unable to play most of the time.

beerlover
11-03-2008, 01:14 PM
with Schaub on the sidelines a premium on the running game should be valued more than ever, the Texans must stop the turnovers.

edo783
11-03-2008, 09:04 PM
Turnovers and a defense not worthy of the name, are probably 80% of our problems. Cure those issues and then you can realistically say we should be a playoff contender, not a Super Bowl contender, but one that could/should get into the playoffs.

Rex King
11-05-2008, 05:41 PM
I find it interesting is that just about all of the same question marks coming into this year will be the same going into next year:

Offense
-Center, RG, RB (backup)

Defense
-DE opposite Mario, DT who can stop the run, OLB, CB, FS

What I find disturbing is the lack of development in both secondary and d-line, Dunta and Mario excepted. Bennett and Amobi have both taken a step back, none of the safeties they've invested draft picks in are really worthy of the two-deep.

Yankee_In_TX
11-05-2008, 05:48 PM
One reason that they are always "rebuilding" is that the Texans don't do a good job of developing young players, especially behind vets.

I haven't thought about why their develoment is stunted but it is.