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View Full Version : Uh, Mr. Referee: Why no flag for helmet-to-helmet against AJ?


GP
10-26-2008, 09:45 PM
AJ got popped in the helmet by a Bengals defender who CLEARLY used his helmet against AJ's.

That non-call was bogus, IMO. He should have been flagged, and he should be facing a league fine for it this week.

The horse collaring has got to be punished more, too. I think it deserves an automatic one-game suspension so that the guys will stop doing it.

Ahman Green was going to turn the corner and pick up a lot of yards on that play...and the Bengals player's only chance was to grab the back of Green's jersey at the neck. Not only is that endangering a guy's career (especially Ahman's) but it affected the play and what it could have become, too.

Helmet-to-helmet can be accidental, but don't ya'll think you can tell when a guy is trying to bang his helmet against the other player's helmet? It certainly looked like the Bengals player was trying to send a message to AJ, at least it did to me. He didn't offer an apology, he walked around like he was a bad dude after the play was over.

Mailman
10-26-2008, 09:48 PM
On a similar note, the penalty on Eugene Wilson for that hit on Housh was a terrible call.

Corrosion
10-26-2008, 09:50 PM
On a similar note, the penalty on Eugene Wilson for that hit on Housh was a terrible call.

Yep , you can see what not finishing the play in that case can do if you look back just a few plays to Walters second TD .... After that play to make the call on Wilson in that situation was rediculous .... he didnt lead with the helmet and just made sure the guy stayed down.

TEXANRED
10-26-2008, 09:51 PM
There are definitely going to be some fines that come out of this game.

The helmet to helmet will get one, the horse collar will get one, and DRob will get one along with his dancing partners.

DocBar
10-26-2008, 10:11 PM
Schaub has left AJ exposed on SEVERAL passes and I worry about concussions with him. Schaub HAS to get SOME passes lower so AJ doesn't have to leave his feet to make a catch over the middle. I think the tacks game embarrasssed AJ and he's going to catch EVERYTHING thrown at him from now on. The helmet-to-helmet is partly BECAUSE AJ has to jump and catch some passes.
The horse collar call is harder for me. That has been done since football has been played and is harder to control. The one on Green clearly got a lot more jersey than shoulder pads. It's also next to impossible to NOT grab for a ball carrier running by you.
I'm more concerned with the personal foul called for unnecessary roughness after a Texan made a good play on a Bengal ( can't remember the names).

mexican_texan
10-26-2008, 10:19 PM
It wasn't an intentional h2h. The defender was leading with his shoulder.

DocBar
10-26-2008, 10:35 PM
It wasn't an intentional h2h. The defender was leading with his shoulder. AMEN on Vonte going to the PB

Texans_Chick
10-26-2008, 11:32 PM
Hey, I would do this but for some reason my DVR isn't working right.

Can anyone YouTube the Eugene Wilson hit on TJ Houshmawhatever?

I might want to write on it depending on what it shows. I really think some of the roughing calls this year are weird as heck.

DiehardChris
10-26-2008, 11:34 PM
The CBS announcers were absolutely abhorrent today. They speculated that the reason Kevin Walter scored on that 39-yarder was because the defender was being gentle in order to avoid being fined for a helmet-to-helmet hit! As if the ONLY way he could have stopped Walter was to go helmet first on him!

Effing ridiculous. I really don't complain about announcers much, but today they were HORRIBLE.

Corrosion
10-26-2008, 11:40 PM
Hey, I would do this but for some reason my DVR isn't working right.

Can anyone YouTube the Eugene Wilson hit on TJ Houshmawhatever?

I might want to write on it depending on what it shows. I really think some of the roughing calls this year are weird as heck.

Thats the play I was talking about above. No way that penalty should have been called ..... He just watched Walter score after getting off the turf in a similar situation .... you gotta finish the play.

Scooter
10-27-2008, 01:01 AM
The CBS announcers were absolutely abhorrent today. They speculated that the reason Kevin Walter scored on that 39-yarder was because the defender was being gentle in order to avoid being fined for a helmet-to-helmet hit! As if the ONLY way he could have stopped Walter was to go helmet first on him!

Effing ridiculous. I really don't complain about announcers much, but today they were HORRIBLE.

they didnt say anything about helmet to helmet, they were talking about hitting a defenseless player (someone on the ground, or hines ward coming from the blindside). they added on to the discussion a few plays later with wilson's "hit" on a defenseless player with a kind of "damned if you do, damned if you dont" situation. the first thing mentioned though with walter is that the defender was just playing soft and not trying - walter was rolling, a simple push would've put him down ... the second announcer tossed it out there to show some of the wussification of the NFL and verified with the flag later.

DiehardChris
10-27-2008, 01:07 AM
I thought for sure they mentioned helmet-to-helmet, but if not - my mistake.

Still - for them to even bring up that the play had anything to do with the defender being afraid of being fined or flagged was ridiculous. It's not like there could have been a late hit - there was nobody else around. Hines Ward wasn't penalized, nor was he fined for his hit on Rivers, and that wasn't even close to the same situation - so if the Bengal defender was worried about that, he just isn't very smart. Apples and oranges. Walter wasn't in any way defenseless - he had the ball.

I thought when a player is referred to as being "defenseless," it usually refers to them chasing a play, without the ball, and not having their head on a swivel. I wish they'd change it from "defenseless" to "not paying attention".

Scooter
10-27-2008, 01:21 AM
that's what wilson was called for, hitting a defenseless player. same as a receiver being hit without making the catch or hitting someone out of bounds - unnecessary roughness. the comparrison with hines ward's hit is that the league has taken player protection too far - hines ward's hit was clean, so was wilson's, and noone should be afraid of playing all out because of fine or suspension for doing their job. these guys are paid to beat the crap out of eachother and while it's wise to protect players when you can, the rules cant become more than the game.

Scooter
10-27-2008, 01:25 AM
speaking of helmets though, why are the texans' players losing their helmets so often? slaton and johnson especially cant keep theirs on.

threetoedpete
10-27-2008, 01:39 AM
Hey, I would do this but for some reason my DVR isn't working right.

Can anyone YouTube the Eugene Wilson hit on TJ Houshmawhatever?

I might want to write on it depending on what it shows. I really think some of the roughing calls this year are weird as heck.

Houshmandzadeh. don't need the video. It was a firm tackle. But he didn't lead with his helmet. And he didn't hit him as hard as he could have. He could of landed on him full force in the middle of his back. He didn't. He hit him from the side with a glancing blow. Any moron, except this moron, could tell Wilson pulled up. The official in question had a brain fart. As long as we don't see the guy calling the play off games, I'm ok with the mistake. It was clearly a very bad call.

It's illeagle....But, I'll send you the DVD if Vinny ok's it.

threetoedpete
10-27-2008, 01:48 AM
The CBS announcers were absolutely abhorrent today. They speculated that the reason Kevin Walter scored on that 39-yarder was because the defender was being gentle in order to avoid being fined for a helmet-to-helmet hit! As if the ONLY way he could have stopped Walter was to go helmet first on him!

Effing ridiculous. I really don't complain about announcers much, but today they were HORRIBLE.

Do what I've learned to do...turn the TV sound off and turn on Vandermeer & Mr. Eleven. Vandermere is a terrible radio play by play guy. But it beats what's on the TV. We get the culls of the crews And it'll be that way until they start winning.

DiehardChris
10-27-2008, 02:28 AM
Do what I've learned to do...turn the TV sound off and turn on Vandermeer & Mr. Eleven. Vandermere is a terrible radio play by play guy. But it beats what's on the TV. We get the culls of the crews And it'll be that way until they start winning.

You know, I've tried that - but it never syncs up perfectly and that drives me crazy... plus, I like to try and keep a finger on the pulse of what is said about us nationally. I'm a glutton for punishment.

:fans:

Texans_Chick
10-27-2008, 08:59 AM
Anyone have video of just the Wilson hit? Even if you have to video your DVR?

If it is up pretty quickly on the YouTubes, I want to do a write up on it.

GP
10-27-2008, 09:25 AM
Houshmandzadeh. don't need the video. It was a firm tackle. But he didn't lead with his helmet. And he didn't hit him as hard as he could have. He could of landed on him full force in the middle of his back. He didn't. He hit him from the side with a glancing blow. Any moron, except this moron, could tell Wilson pulled up. The official in question had a brain fart. As long as we don't see the guy calling the play off games, I'm ok with the mistake. It was clearly a very bad call.

It's illeagle....But, I'll send you the DVD if Vinny ok's it.

I'm convinced he made that call because he felt guilty about not making the call when AJ was smacked earlier.

When AJ stays down, shakes his head, and stumbles to his feet and wobbles around for a second...oh, and when the ref hears the really loud CRACK! noise during the play...that might be a time to yank the flag, Mr. Referee.

I was mad when it happened, I was mad at the end of the game, and I'm still mad about it today.

eriadoc
10-27-2008, 09:33 AM
There was a similar play to the Walter TD a few years ago involving John Lynch of the Broncos. He complained to the refs with the exact argument that the announcers were going on about. The NFL has started penalizing and even fining players for hitting a player when he's down, regardless of helmet-to-helmet contact.

Players perform on the field just like they've practiced. If the coaches are conditioning these guys to let up on those type of plays (because of the NFL), then this is what you get. I'm happy one of these sort of things went our way for a change, but it's still BS, just like the hit by Wilson on TJH was BS. The NFL needs to address this.

Yankee_In_TX
10-27-2008, 09:36 AM
and DRob will get one along with his dancing partners.

If so, let's start a fan collection to pay it :-)

Twitch-Houston
10-27-2008, 12:12 PM
speaking of helmets though, why are the texans' players losing their helmets so often? slaton and johnson especially cant keep theirs on.

Yea I've noticed it as well. Last thing we want to do is lose one of them due to a concussion caused by being hit without the helmet. I looked after Slaton lost his helmet yesterday and it looks like he keeps the top two straps buttoned, but not the bottom two. Not sure if that's the way he always does it, but I noticed that on a couple of plays.

Scooter
10-27-2008, 05:15 PM
yeah and the top two straps dont do anything to tighten the chin strap and the helmet. slaton only snaps one of the bottom straps, i didnt notice andre though.

Texans_Chick
10-27-2008, 05:18 PM
Yea I've noticed it as well. Last thing we want to do is lose one of them due to a concussion caused by being hit without the helmet. I looked after Slaton lost his helmet yesterday and it looks like he keeps the top two straps buttoned, but not the bottom two. Not sure if that's the way he always does it, but I noticed that on a couple of plays.

They can get fined for that.

brakos82
10-27-2008, 05:27 PM
Do what I've learned to do...turn the TV sound off and turn on Vandermeer & Mr. Eleven. Vandermere is a terrible radio play by play guy. But it beats what's on the TV. We get the culls of the crews And it'll be that way until they start winning.
Yep... although after a couple seasons of Vandemeer you start having dreams about him...

Malloy
10-27-2008, 05:57 PM
Yep... although after a couple seasons of Vandemeer you start having dreams about him...

There you go again ;)

b0ng
10-27-2008, 06:52 PM
We get the culls of the crews And it'll be that way until they start winning.

Gus Johnson and Steve Tasker are not the dregs of the announcing crews. Wilcots and whatever fruitcake they had for the Dolphins game was way way worse.

BigBull17
10-28-2008, 11:22 AM
Yep... although after a couple seasons of Vandemeer you start having dreams about him...

Ware gets on my nerves more than Vandemeer.

mexican_texan
10-28-2008, 01:11 PM
I like Vandermeer. He isn't as cheesy as he used to be. I listen to the radio along with the TV.