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View Full Version : Phase Two of the Texans... The new era


barrett
10-20-2008, 11:35 AM
It is finally here. We have made it to the next level of competitiveness. We can officially beat any team. I'm not saying we will, I'm saying, as a franchise, we are good enough that if we play well, and are coached well during the game, we could beat anybody.

This is a first for this franchise and a first for us as fans of this team.

No longer are we "trying to turn this thing around". The ship is righted. We're not as good as we could be but we are out of the "no wake zone". The motor is in the water. We can look at any game on the schedule and say, we have the tools to beat this team.

Think about all the bickering in the last two weeks... how proud are we of this team? how high are our expectations? This team is good. We know it, they know it. Erik Winston's quotes from yesterday are enough to make you want to stay for the whole fu(king game!!!! This team thinks they are capable of beating anyone. They are right.

welcome to the next phase. the phase where we belong on the field ever sunday.

Go Texans

BigBull17
10-20-2008, 11:39 AM
It is finally here. We have made it to the next level of competitiveness. We can officially beat any team. I'm not saying we will, I'm saying, as a franchise, we are good enough that if we play well, and are coached well during the game, we could beat anybody.

This is a first for this franchise and a first for us as fans of this team.

No longer are we "trying to turn this thing around". The ship is righted. We're not as good as we could be but we are out of the "no wake zone". The motor is in the water. We can look at any game on the schedule and say, we have the tools to beat this team.

Think about all the bickering in the last two weeks... how proud are we of this team? how high are our expectations? This team is good. We know it, they know it. Erik Winston's quotes from yesterday are enough to make you want to stay for the whole fu(king game!!!! This team thinks they are capable of beating anyone. They are right.

welcome to the next phase. the phase where we belong on the field ever sunday.

Go Texans

I agree, once we stop playing guys who have no talent in our secondary. The Lions had alot of open lanes, and just missed open guys. Bad CB's+bad Safties= Lose.

threetoedpete
10-20-2008, 11:40 AM
No. Weaver's gotta go. Greenwood's gotta go. And until I see improvement, we're going to be drafting another QB in 2010. Which means we'll be rebuilding once again. Some where out there Warren Moon and David Craig are smiling at another QB to snatch the QB fumbling record from them.

BigBull17
10-20-2008, 11:44 AM
No. Weaver's gotta go. Greenwood's gotta go. And until I see improvement, we're going to be drafting another QB in 2010. Which means we'll be rebuilding once again. Some where out there Warren Moon and David Craig are smiling at another QB to snatch the QB fumbling record from them.

Im not happy with his fumbles, but I liked what the offense showed. I know its a bad team, but they brought a beat down. Add guard and center to the list.

Thorn
10-20-2008, 11:46 AM
We aren't good enough to beat a quality team unless they are having a bad day. We are good enough to beat bad teams and other mediocre teams such as ourselves though.

This team has to far many holes in the defense to compete on a higher level. The offense though is probably one lineman and a RB short of keeping up with the best in the league.

Mailman
10-20-2008, 11:53 AM
It is finally here. We have made it to the next level of competitiveness. We can officially beat any team. I'm not saying we will, I'm saying, as a franchise, we are good enough that if we play well, and are coached well during the game, we could beat anybody.



This is precisely the reason I can't let go of the Indy game. The knock on the Texans is the team's beneficent instinct in crunch time. They simply cannot close out games with the same intensity that they play with when the game is close. That weakness is compounded given the difficulty of the division. If you get a saavy team like the Colts pinned on your home turf, you have to string em up, slit the jugular vein, and bleed em out. If you have a chance to win a road game against the Jags by simply stopping their quarterback from running the ball down your throat in the fourth quarter, you make the adjustments and close out the game. Until the Texans show me this, I will consider them the underdog every Sunday.

Polo
10-20-2008, 11:54 AM
Texans offense will never be elite with the QB's turning it over so much.

Norg
10-20-2008, 11:59 AM
:spit:......iam sorry but we are not there yet we still have many problem with are team that iam sure u all know about

yea we can go aganist anytime but if we face elite teams are chances of winning are MUCHHH MUCHH lower

eriadoc
10-20-2008, 12:29 PM
Texans offense will never be elite with the QB's turning it over so much.

That's really the long and short of it right there.

Silver Oak
10-20-2008, 12:40 PM
Texans offense will never be elite with the QB's turning it over so much.

just as an example as he is held up by many to be "elite", Tony Romo has been intercepted 5 times and MS has been picked 7 times. Romo has fumbled 6 times and lost 3 of them, which is exactly the same as MS.

odd to me that Schaub is hacked on by some for his turnovers, and yet Romo has virtually the same, and on a better team?

I don't know. It's hard to make everyone happy, but I do know I am happy that some on this MB are not in charge of our football team.

HJam72
10-20-2008, 12:40 PM
Along with that, we couldn't beat Pitts or Tenn to save our lives right now.

eriadoc
10-20-2008, 12:47 PM
just as an example as he is held up by many to be "elite", Tony Romo has been intercepted 5 times and MS has been picked 7 times. Romo has fumbled 6 times and lost 3 of them, which is exactly the same as MS.

odd to me that Schaub is hacked on by some for his turnovers, and yet Romo has virtually the same, and on a better team?

I don't know. It's hard to make everyone happy, but I do know I am happy that some on this MB are not in charge of our football team.

Would you say Dallas has more talent than the Texans? Would you say Dallas has lived up to expectations to this point? Funny how turnovers can kill any team, huh?

Romo's #1 criticism is dumb mistakes. When the team wins, that criticism gets overlooked to a point. See the board today as evidence of that. Instead of pointing out what an idiotic fumble that was by Schaub, we're all talking about the win, and what we can do the rest of the season. The fact that we won doesn't make that fumble any less stupid - it just gets ignored. Moreover, we don't care about Romo on this forum :)

Spike
10-20-2008, 12:47 PM
Texans offense will never be elite with the QB's turning it over so much.

...or until your o-line can consistently give you the push to make a first down on third and fourth and short.

The Texans team will never truely turn the corner until they have a defense that is in, or close to, the top half of the league. If this defense were almost average, we could compete for a play-off spot.

Polo
10-20-2008, 12:50 PM
just as an example as he is held up by many to be "elite", Tony Romo has been intercepted 5 times and MS has been picked 7 times. Romo has fumbled 6 times and lost 3 of them, which is exactly the same as MS.

odd to me that Schaub is hacked on by some for his turnovers, and yet Romo has virtually the same, and on a better team?

I don't know. It's hard to make everyone happy, but I do know I am happy that some on this MB are not in charge of our football team.


LOL @ you not paying attention...

No one compared Matt Schaub to Tony Romo and no one compared The Texans to the Cowboys except you...

I said the Texans Offense (meaning the whole offense and not one person) will never be "elite" if the QB's (again, not one person's name is mentioned) keep turning it over so much.

And...

Some offenses can funtion with high turnovers because of their defense and/or they are a "passing team". We are neither.

I'm glad you aren't the coach if you think that our offense can be elite with so many turnovers from our QB's. Really glad.

imatexan
10-20-2008, 12:55 PM
Texans offense will never be elite with the QB's turning it over so much.

Too bad that has already happend!

dskillz
10-20-2008, 12:57 PM
Texans offense will never be elite with the QB's turning it over so much.

Seconded. Schaub does not value the ball and there were atleast 2 balls he forced to the WR that would have been picked against a good team.

I am happy the team won, but after the game I felt like the team only "didn't lose", if that makes any sense.

Tell me exactly how this "era" is any different than the 7-9 year as far as results. We are finding ways to lose and we our wins are short of convincing.

I am not going to put the blame all on Schaub, Kubiak or the defense. The entire package just isn't there yet to be considered a great team. We are just trying to climb our way into mediocre now.

Mailman
10-20-2008, 12:58 PM
When the team wins, that criticism gets overlooked to a point. See the board today as evidence of that. Instead of pointing out what an idiotic fumble that was by Schaub, we're all talking about the win, and what we can do the rest of the season. The fact that we won doesn't make that fumble any less stupid - it just gets ignored. Moreover, we don't care about Romo on this forum :)

Speaking for myself only, this was one of the least satisfying games of the year. I think the Texans played better against the Jags and Colts than the Lions. The two wins don't exactly fill me with contentment because the team still needs improvement in multiple facets of the game.

Three points of exasperation:

1. The Schaub fumble -- another dumb mental mistake that cost the team valuable points

2. The TD to Megatron --no explanation needed. Petey Faggins solo? Really, Dick?

3. The fourth down call -- it worked and the Texans scored the TD, but Kubiak has to be smarter. That was just dumb. Take the points next time.

Texecutioner
10-20-2008, 12:59 PM
This is precisely the reason I can't let go of the Indy game. The knock on the Texans is the team's beneficent instinct in crunch time. They simply cannot close out games with the same intensity that they play with when the game is close. That weakness is compounded given the difficulty of the division. If you get a saavy team like the Colts pinned on your home turf, you have to string em up, slit the jugular vein, and bleed em out. If you have a chance to win a road game against the Jags by simply stopping their quarterback from running the ball down your throat in the fourth quarter, you make the adjustments and close out the game. Until the Texans show me this, I will consider them the underdog every Sunday.

I don't think that we're an under dog every single week. Most weeks, but I considered the Lions to be the under dog in this game and I think that Cinci is the under dog this week as well. I also think that we should have 3 wins now and possibly 4 if not for some of those poor calls on Kubiak's part in the Jacksonville game. I really believe that this team should have 4 wins, which really wouldn't be that bad when considering how we would have a better record than the Chargers surprisingly.

The offense is playing at a high level finally. The O line is blocking better, and if we can consistently get the ball to Johnson then we can move the ball period.

However, I just don't see Kubiak being able to take this team to the next level past this. I think he is a good enough coach to have us as a mediocre team that can compete with just about any team, but not beat just about any team if that makes sense. Kubiak and Smith have brought in a ton of defensive players to replace what was here when they came in and the defensive coaches continue to make bad calls. Kubiak needs to to something with SMith in my opinion since Smith continues to have certain players in bad positions making our D vulnerable.

However though, 2 wins in a row now and I think that we will beat Cinci next week.

Polo
10-20-2008, 01:03 PM
Too bad that has already happend!

LOL...You think our offense is elite?

I've still yet to see Matt Schaub play at a high level (start to finish) against a dominant defense...

And even if I give you the Jags game from this yr. (I wouldn't consider their defense to be all that intimidating at this point) that'd bring his good performances against good defenses to a grand total of 1...

Let me see Matt Schaub perform against Baltimore, the Titans or any other defense good at applying pressure...until then it's a milestone he's yet to pass...

DBCooper
10-20-2008, 01:08 PM
Sorry, no koolaid yet.

Thank You.

HOU-TEX
10-20-2008, 01:26 PM
I understand the turnover's are hurting our team, but IMO, the defense is hurting it even more.

Offense 23.3 pts /game = Average
369.5 yds/game = #5 in the league

Defense gives up 29.8 pts/game = Next to last in the league
338.8 yds/game = Bottom half of league

I understand turnovers have some to do with our defensive woes, but not as much as some make it out to be.

Our defensive players/coaches/asst coaches/etc are not getting the job done, period.

Silver Oak
10-20-2008, 01:28 PM
LOL...You think our offense is elite?

I've still yet to see Matt Schaub play at a high level (start to finish) against a dominant defense...

And even if I give you the Jags game from this yr. (I wouldn't consider their defense to be all that intimidating at this point) that'd bring his good performances against good defenses to a grand total of 1...

Let me see Matt Schaub perform against Baltimore, the Titans or any other defense good at applying pressure...until then it's a milestone he's yet to pass...


LOL at your focusing on a position that, when compared to others on the team is solid, while many positions are much more unstable.

I'll keep your opinion of this "milestone" MS has to pass and remind you of it when it occurs. Maybe then you'll be more likely to see the other places this team needs more immediate attention.

Mr teX
10-20-2008, 01:31 PM
Along with that, we couldn't beat Pitts or Tenn to save our lives right now.

We're not that far from tenn. imo. It's mainly b/c they are division rivals, but we always play them fairly well & 3 out of 4 times we have a chance to win the game in the 4th...we just haven't been able to do it for various reasons....

Pittsburgh on the other hand has smacked us down very good since aaron glenn's 2 int TD returns from 2001-02. Ditto for SD.

ObsiWan
10-20-2008, 01:34 PM
Speaking for myself only, this was one of the least satisfying games of the year. I think the Texans played better against the Jags and Colts than the Lions. The two wins don't exactly fill me with contentment because the team still needs improvement in multiple facets of the game.

Three points of exasperation:

1. The Schaub fumble -- another dumb mental mistake that cost the team valuable points

2. The TD to Megatron --no explanation needed. Petey Faggins solo? Really, Dick?

3. The fourth down call -- it worked and the Texans scored the TD, but Kubiak has to be smarter. That was just dumb. Take the points next time.

No issues with the first two. On #3, I would have made the same call. We want to say we're a "playoff-ready" team. Playoff-ready teams are supposed to be able to kick weak sisters like the Lions' butts up & down the field. If that's true, then we should be able to get a freakin' yard. ...in our own house. Time to put the guys to the test. I have no issues with gut checks for the offense ...especially on their 3 and up 21-10.

Vinny
10-20-2008, 01:35 PM
It is finally here. We have made it to the next level of competitiveness. We can officially beat any team. I'm not saying we will, I'm saying, as a franchise, we are good enough that if we play well, and are coached well during the game, we could beat anybody.

This is a first for this franchise and a first for us as fans of this team.

No longer are we "trying to turn this thing around". The ship is righted. We're not as good as we could be but we are out of the "no wake zone". The motor is in the water. We can look at any game on the schedule and say, we have the tools to beat this team.

Think about all the bickering in the last two weeks... how proud are we of this team? how high are our expectations? This team is good. We know it, they know it. Erik Winston's quotes from yesterday are enough to make you want to stay for the whole fu(king game!!!! This team thinks they are capable of beating anyone. They are right.

welcome to the next phase. the phase where we belong on the field ever sunday.

Go Texans

we are 2-4, last in the division, winless in the division in all 3 contests, barely beat the winless Lions and we have finally arrived? You need to be a Republican strategist. You clearly have potential.

ObsiWan
10-20-2008, 01:45 PM
It is finally here. We have made it to the next level of competitiveness. We can officially beat any team. I'm not saying we will, I'm saying, as a franchise, we are good enough that if we play well, and are coached well during the game, we could beat anybody.

This is a first for this franchise and a first for us as fans of this team.

No longer are we "trying to turn this thing around". The ship is righted. We're not as good as we could be but we are out of the "no wake zone". The motor is in the water. We can look at any game on the schedule and say, we have the tools to beat this team.

Think about all the bickering in the last two weeks... how proud are we of this team? how high are our expectations? This team is good. We know it, they know it. Erik Winston's quotes from yesterday are enough to make you want to stay for the whole fu(king game!!!! This team thinks they are capable of beating anyone. They are right.

welcome to the next phase. the phase where we belong on the field ever sunday.

Go Texans

I agree. But we aren't done yet. The next target is the "we expect to beat anyone" phase. We're still a ways away from that status. When we upgrade the positions all you guys have identified and get the turnover problem pounded flat we'll be there.

Polo
10-20-2008, 01:47 PM
LOL at your focusing on a position that, when compared to others on the team is solid, while many positions are much more unstable.

I'll keep your opinion of this "milestone" MS has to pass and remind you of it when it occurs. Maybe then you'll be more likely to see the other places this team needs more immediate attention.

Meanwhile, I'll update you the the Texans can overcome an average of two turnovers a week by their QB's...




P.S....Don't hold your breath waiting for that update....

imatexan
10-20-2008, 01:50 PM
LOL...You think our offense is elite?

I've still yet to see Matt Schaub play at a high level (start to finish) against a dominant defense...

And even if I give you the Jags game from this yr. (I wouldn't consider their defense to be all that intimidating at this point) that'd bring his good performances against good defenses to a grand total of 1...

Let me see Matt Schaub perform against Baltimore, the Titans or any other defense good at applying pressure...until then it's a milestone he's yet to pass...

1 New Orleans Saints 7 25.6 179 450 402.3 6.3 20.0 43 89 48 1 5 20 46 442 31:12 11 6 -4
2 Denver Broncos 6 27.7 166 384 399.7 6.2 22.7 33 72 46 1 2 50 26 231 28:53 10 6 -4
3 New York Giants 6 28.3 170 379 395.0 6.3 22.8 28 66 42 1 2 50 41 353 33:11 5 0 +1
4 Dallas Cowboys 7 27 189 428 393.1 6.4 20.4 47 90 52 2 3 67 57 460 30:29 15 5 -6
5 Houston Texans 6 23.3 140 394 369.5 5.6 22.7 33 77 43 5 10 50 16 119 32:32 12 6 -9


Proof and i dont think that even includes this week, which we did great offensively once again!

barrett
10-20-2008, 02:29 PM
glad too see you all can see it too.

i hate being the smartest guy in the room.

Tailgate
10-20-2008, 02:46 PM
Remeber the days of having to be a fan of a team who could not even attempt to throw a pass without getting the QB hurried, sacked, or hit as he threw the ball??

Double Barrel
10-20-2008, 02:57 PM
we are 2-4, last in the division, winless in the division in all 3 contests, barely beat the winless Lions and we have finally arrived? You need to be a Republican strategist. You clearly have potential.

Yeah, but we won two in a row! :ok:

Runner
10-20-2008, 03:28 PM
Yeah, but we won two in a row! :ok:

That's nothing! If you take away three or four bad plays a game, and if the meanies in the NFL front office didn't make the Texans play good teams like the Steelers ... they'd be undefeated. Really.

DBCooper
10-20-2008, 04:13 PM
That's nothing! If you take away three or four bad plays a game, and if the meanies in the NFL front office didn't make the Texans play good teams like the Steelers ... they'd be undefeated. Really.

Win 2 more in a row and we'll be at .500!

Woohoo!

New_Texans
10-20-2008, 04:36 PM
Our offense doenst trouble me as much as our defense does.

Hervoyel
10-20-2008, 04:42 PM
Our offense needs reps. It's good and all that's left is to get them the necessary experience. Then the mistakes will go down and the turnovers will decrease.

Possibly in the course of this year or next we'll be replacing a component or two but we have an offense that can beat most of the league.

Unfortunately we have a defense that can lose to any of the other 31 teams with ease. We're short a few players and more importantly any hint of a clue as to what we're trying to be. To my mind we'll be golden by the end of this year on one side and still an ugly work in progress on the other.

disaacks3
10-20-2008, 05:01 PM
I'd still call us another O-Lineman short of "good" on the Offense, but our Defense isn't even CLOSE.

Unless / Until we fill the HUGE gaps at CB, FS and another good LB, we're going to give up 1+ highlight-reel play a week on Defense.

Texan JBZ
10-20-2008, 05:47 PM
LOL...You think our offense is elite?

I've still yet to see Matt Schaub play at a high level (start to finish) against a dominant defense...

And even if I give you the Jags game from this yr. (I wouldn't consider their defense to be all that intimidating at this point) that'd bring his good performances against good defenses to a grand total of 1...

Let me see Matt Schaub perform against Baltimore, the Titans or any other defense good at applying pressure...until then it's a milestone he's yet to pass...

First of all, you're not going to see many QBs at all play at a high level against Baltimore, Tennessee, or Pittsburgh. It just doesn't happen too often. That shouldn't be a knock against Schaub though. If that's the case, there's 28 other QBs you should be knocking too.

To me, even though he made some mistakes in the Titans game, he put the team in position to make plays and win the game. It wasn't his fault that the WRs were dropping TDs that game. So far, Schaub has played one horrible game and that was against Pittsburgh. He gets a mulligan from me for that because it's Pittsburgh. They make their living on making opposing offenses look bad. Tennessee wasn't all his fault. Against J'ville, Miami, and Detroit, he's looked freakin awesome. The Texans, under SCHAUB, have the 5th ranked offense in the league and the 2nd ranked offense in the AFC. It hasn't translated in the wins and losses column as of yet, but it's coming. The defense is the real problem. You should have said something like, "The Texans will never be an elite defense until they figure out how to create more turnovers, stop opposing offenses on 4th and 8 in the 4th quarter, or stop letting bad QBs throw 94 yard bombs on you and convert 3rd and 18." That sounds more like the problem right now to me. It's not Schaub! Some of you just can't get the #8 deal out of your heads. He's not David Carr and doesn't play anything like him. He's been playing some solid football this year. Give the man his dues, s#&t!

maddogmrb
10-20-2008, 06:18 PM
I'd still call us another O-Lineman short of "good" on the Offense, but our Defense isn't even CLOSE.

Unless / Until we fill the HUGE gaps at CB, FS and another good LB, we're going to give up 1+ highlight-reel play a week on Defense.


Agreed, plus you may add a new DC to that list.

maddogmrb
10-20-2008, 06:27 PM
We aren't good enough to beat a quality team unless they are having a bad day. We are good enough to beat bad teams and other mediocre teams such as ourselves though.

This team has to far many holes in the defense to compete on a higher level. The offense though is probably one lineman and a RB short of keeping up with the best in the league.

Agreed. I hate to be cynical because I want the team to be great, too. However, we've been around the block here in Houston with our pro teams and we fans can pretty well tell when a team is really good or not.

If we believe that barely beating the Lions and sitting at 2-4 is "arriving" or "turning the corner" then all I can say is that we turned the corner and arrived at slightly below mediocre. This team does not have the overall talent and has not shown the level of coaching that is required to be a contender ..... and that is what "arriving" and "turning the corner" should be about, is being a contender.

RTP2110
10-20-2008, 11:34 PM
I guess it might be true for home games. It's the second staff and we're still TERRIBLE on the road. How about 4-15 under Kubiak. We have a long way to go. (2 of those wins were in Oakland)

GNTLEWOLF
10-21-2008, 02:23 AM
I'll buy into this "new era" when Our defense no longer allows 28 pts agame and when we can cosistantly beat good teams. I'm sorry, but it still looks too much like the old era to me.... Improved old era, but old era nonetheless.

barrett
10-21-2008, 02:47 AM
i think you guys are confused by the fact that we've had a slow start and still have some positional issues and are still making mistakes.

the facts here are that we are a better, more competitive, better coached, team that gives teams fits. we don't win them all yet, not many teams do in the NFL, but we HAVE turned the corner. if you think this team is in the same rung as it was under Capers and Casserly or even in the same rung it was 2 years ago when Kubiak took over.... then, well, to be frank, you're a dolt. go route for the Longhorns or the Cowboys. It's alot easier to notice when your team is good cuz they got all those big name players who are in the news everyday.

Johnson is such a letdown. "I'll never complain." jeeze what a jerk. and a ball hog too.

guys, we're good. we're not a superbowl powerhouse that puts the fear in every team we play but what we are is a sh!t load better football team than we were a few years ago. open you're eyes, look at how far we've come. look at how much better we are in the 56 minutes that we are running up and down the field. look at how much better we are even after the defense blows it and we've got to go 80 yards. look at how much better we are when our first string qb is sick and our backup has to play. look at how much better we are at zone blocking from 5 weeks ago!!!!!!! pay attention!!! look at how much better we are at applying pressure and disrupting what the opposing offense is trying to do. look at what we did to the "wild cat". we shut it down. we made 2 mistakes against it. 2!!! look at our third down percentage on defense over the last two weeks! look at our fu(king punter for crying out loud!!!! what are you people looking at?

i'm sick of this nonesense. if you can't see that we are a capable, competitive football team that has a very good chance to beat any opponent we play then you're watching the chiefs. and so be it. maybe Herm can give you some insite into what it takes to build a winner. ugh.

go texans.

dalemurphy
10-21-2008, 08:04 AM
i think you guys are confused by the fact that we've had a slow start and still have some positional issues and are still making mistakes.

the facts here are that we are a better, more competitive, better coached, team that gives teams fits. we don't win them all yet, not many teams do in the NFL, but we HAVE turned the corner. if you think this team is in the same rung as it was under Capers and Casserly or even in the same rung it was 2 years ago when Kubiak took over.... then, well, to be frank, you're a dolt. go route for the Longhorns or the Cowboys. It's alot easier to notice when your team is good cuz they got all those big name players who are in the news everyday.

Johnson is such a letdown. "I'll never complain." jeeze what a jerk. and a ball hog too.

guys, we're good. we're not a superbowl powerhouse that puts the fear in every team we play but what we are is a sh!t load better football team than we were a few years ago. open you're eyes, look at how far we've come. look at how much better we are in the 56 minutes that we are running up and down the field. look at how much better we are even after the defense blows it and we've got to go 80 yards. look at how much better we are when our first string qb is sick and our backup has to play. look at how much better we are at zone blocking from 5 weeks ago!!!!!!! pay attention!!! look at how much better we are at applying pressure and disrupting what the opposing offense is trying to do. look at what we did to the "wild cat". we shut it down. we made 2 mistakes against it. 2!!! look at our third down percentage on defense over the last two weeks! look at our fu(king punter for crying out loud!!!! what are you people looking at?

i'm sick of this nonesense. if you can't see that we are a capable, competitive football team that has a very good chance to beat any opponent we play then you're watching the chiefs. and so be it. maybe Herm can give you some insite into what it takes to build a winner. ugh.

go texans.



Best Post Ever!!!

You will find Barrett and I in the Orange Lot at 11:00, sitting Indian Style on the asphault (we don't have chairs) while we strike two stones together to attempt to start a fire. It may not be the most impressive tailgating setup ever but it sure gets us in the right frame of mind as is evidence by what Barrett wrote. Oh yeah, the whiskey helps too! Come check out how real fans tailgate!!

gtexan02
10-21-2008, 08:11 AM
The problem with this is that we have faced only one non-divisional top 10 football team - - - the Pittsburgh steelers - - - and they dominated us in every phase of the game.

We lost a screacher to Indy and Jax, got beat badly by Tenn, and won against two teams with a combined 2-10 record.

I think we are a much improved team, but I'm hardly ready to agree that we can compete with any team in the league.

dalemurphy
10-21-2008, 08:18 AM
The problem with this is that we have faced only one non-divisional top 10 football team - - - the Pittsburgh steelers - - - and they dominated us in every phase of the game.

We lost a screacher to Indy and Jax, got beat badly by Tenn, and won against two teams with a combined 2-10 record.

I think we are a much improved team, but I'm hardly ready to agree that we can compete with any team in the league.

You're confusing frustration and disappointment with what's going on now. This offense scores TDs unless we're trying to kill the clock or we turn it over. PERIOD! The defense for the past month has stopped the run and created good pressure with its front 4. Teams that do those things can beat anyone in the NFL this season, for sure!

maddogmrb
10-21-2008, 08:49 AM
Barrett & Dale,

I think most everyone acknowledges that we are better than in the Capers days but, we also feel that we are not as good as we should be by now under Kubiak/Smith/Smith. We certainly are not as good as you guys are making us out to be.

To say that we're SO MUCH better because our offense moves up and down the field may not be totally accurate because most everybody's offense is moving up and down the field nowadays. I mean THE BEARS scored over 40 points this past weekend! Defenses are weaker in the NFL right now and so offenses are looking better than they really are.

According to your theory, if we're so much better then we should literally stomp the Bengals this week, (and we should have had a "crushing" victory over the Lions last week), go to Minnesota and beat the struggling Vikings, come home and beat the Ravens, go to Indy and finish the job against the Colts, go to Cleveland and whip the struggling Browns, beat the Jags here, lose a close one in Green Bay, stick it to the Titans here, beat the struggling Raiders in Oakland and end the season with a convincing home win over the Bears!

That's 11-5. If we do that I'll buy y'alls dinner at Taste of Texas!

DBCooper
10-21-2008, 10:02 AM
According to your theory, if we're so much better then we should literally stomp the Bengals this week, (and we should have had a "crushing" victory over the Lions last week), go to Minnesota and beat the struggling Vikings, come home and beat the Ravens, go to Indy and finish the job against the Colts, go to Cleveland and whip the struggling Browns, beat the Jags here, lose a close one in Green Bay, stick it to the Titans here, beat the struggling Raiders in Oakland and end the season with a convincing home win over the Bears!

That's 11-5. If we do that I'll buy y'alls dinner at Taste of Texas!

If we can do that, I'll pitch in for the feast!

dalemurphy
10-21-2008, 10:08 AM
Barrett & Dale,

I think most everyone acknowledges that we are better than in the Capers days but, we also feel that we are not as good as we should be by now under Kubiak/Smith/Smith. We certainly are not as good as you guys are making us out to be.

To say that we're SO MUCH better because our offense moves up and down the field may not be totally accurate because most everybody's offense is moving up and down the field nowadays. I mean THE BEARS scored over 40 points this past weekend! Defenses are weaker in the NFL right now and so offenses are looking better than they really are.

According to your theory, if we're so much better then we should literally stomp the Bengals this week, (and we should have had a "crushing" victory over the Lions last week), go to Minnesota and beat the struggling Vikings, come home and beat the Ravens, go to Indy and finish the job against the Colts, go to Cleveland and whip the struggling Browns, beat the Jags here, lose a close one in Green Bay, stick it to the Titans here, beat the struggling Raiders in Oakland and end the season with a convincing home win over the Bears!
That's 11-5. If we do that I'll buy y'alls dinner at Taste of Texas!



See, now you're talking some sense!...

Seriously, that is largely the point... We should beat up Cincy. We should've stomped Detroit. We should definitely beat Jacksonville at home on Monday night. I expect a win at Minnesota.

Again, though, you confuse the point. We are no longer at a deficit in talent or coaching with the top half of the NFL. Of course this team will sometimes disappoint. It's still young and learning to win. However, I can go to the game on Sunday and know that if my team plays well, they'll almost certainly win. That's never been the case here before. And, I also know that a 6 or 7 game win streak is a possibility. And that's new and fun. We could finish 11-5. I would bet on 9-7, but I'm a little more cynical than my buddy Barrett.

barrett
10-21-2008, 10:28 AM
Barrett & Dale,

I think most everyone acknowledges that we are better than in the Capers days but, we also feel that we are not as good as we should be by now under Kubiak/Smith/Smith. We certainly are not as good as you guys are making us out to be.

To say that we're SO MUCH better because our offense moves up and down the field may not be totally accurate because most everybody's offense is moving up and down the field nowadays. I mean THE BEARS scored over 40 points this past weekend! Defenses are weaker in the NFL right now and so offenses are looking better than they really are.

According to your theory, if we're so much better then we should literally stomp the Bengals this week, (and we should have had a "crushing" victory over the Lions last week), go to Minnesota and beat the struggling Vikings, come home and beat the Ravens, go to Indy and finish the job against the Colts, go to Cleveland and whip the struggling Browns, beat the Jags here, lose a close one in Green Bay, stick it to the Titans here, beat the struggling Raiders in Oakland and end the season with a convincing home win over the Bears!

That's 11-5. If we do that I'll buy y'alls dinner at Taste of Texas!

Thats exactly what I'm getting at. When in our history have we ever been in a situation where that was even entertaining to think about? Much less a distinct possibility. There is no doubt in my mind that this team has good tools on both sides of the ball to win football games. Are all the holes filled? No. Are we playing consistently as well as we should be or are capable of? No. But we have good talent and good coaching (for the most part) and despite the fact that nobody comes to the games, a pretty good home field advantage. We're in a position to take it to another level if we continue on the path that we're on. But there is no doubt that we are already on a whole other level than we've ever been before as a franchise.

Consistency is our biggest nemesis right now. GO look at the tape.

Go Texans.

Spike
10-21-2008, 12:40 PM
I love the enthusiasm and won't disagree with the distinction that we do have the talent to arguably win every game we play.

I think most of the disagreement on this thread regarding this theory is that there is a huge difference between arguably being able to win games like the Titans, Jaguars and Colts game - and actually getting it done.

I tend to agree. Until we can actually win those games, we haven't turned any corners. A loss, is a loss, is a loss...whether it was a hard fought, close one or we just get blown out. If we win less than 7 games this season, people aren't (and should not) give the front office or coaching staff a break because we "could" have one those games...or that we "almost" won.

Sure, having the talent is progress. That progress is small compared to the progress that a team needs to have win close games...or even close out games that we are winning - and arguably having the talent and NOT being able to show that progress should indicate major weaknesses of another sort.

Runner
10-21-2008, 01:47 PM
I don't think the Texans have turned the corner to being a a threat to every team in the league. Sure, they might get a surprise upset against anybody, but that isn't the same thing. If it was, every team in the league has turned the same corner. Any team can pull out a big upset; that isn't the same as having a high probability of an upset every week.

I'll add that if the grandiose projections in this thread are true, then the Texans rival the Cowboys and the Broncos as the biggest underachievers in the league.

maddogmrb
10-21-2008, 01:54 PM
Again, though, you confuse the point. We are no longer at a deficit in talent or coaching with the top half of the NFL.

Geez Dale, I do have to respectfully disagree with you. I do believe we are still at a deficit in talent AND coaching AND GMing with the top half of the NFL. It's going to take alot more than barely squeeking by the Lions at home to show this.

maddogmrb
10-21-2008, 02:01 PM
Thats exactly what I'm getting at. When in our history have we ever been in a situation where that was even entertaining to think about? Much less a distinct possibility. There is no doubt in my mind that this team has good tools on both sides of the ball to win football games. Are all the holes filled? No. Are we playing consistently as well as we should be or are capable of? No. But we have good talent and good coaching (for the most part) and despite the fact that nobody comes to the games, a pretty good home field advantage. We're in a position to take it to another level if we continue on the path that we're on. But there is no doubt that we are already on a whole other level than we've ever been before as a franchise.

Consistency is our biggest nemesis right now. GO look at the tape.

Go Texans.


Barrett, I'm close to agreeing with you on this. I can agree that we're at a better level than we've been to date and that is progress. However, would you think it is fair to say that we have consistency problems because we ARE still at a somewhat deficit to the top of the league in talent and coaching and gm-ing?

Further, while the improvement is there, would you not say it is fair to have expected more from Kubiak/Smith/Smith by now?

gtexan02
10-21-2008, 02:01 PM
Heres an interesting stat:

The Texans are Next to LAST in the category of number of punts: We've only punted 18 times!

Runner
10-21-2008, 02:04 PM
Heres an interesting stat:

The Texans are Next to LAST in the category of number of punts: We've only punted 18 times!

Thank you turnovers!

Livid13
10-21-2008, 02:52 PM
Cleveland is NO pushover. They have played extremely well in the last two weeks. Wouldn't throw that one in the W column just yet.......

The Pencil Neck
10-21-2008, 03:09 PM
Cleveland is NO pushover. They have played extremely well in the last two weeks. Wouldn't throw that one in the W column just yet.......

We shouldn't be putting any game we haven't already played into the W column just yet. There's not a team on our schedule that we can't beat but there's also no team on our schedule that we can't lose to.

Coming into this season, a lot of people were marking the Browns game as a loss. They were a good team last year and expected to push the Steelers for the top spot in the AFC North this year.

They're still a good team and as they showed against the Giants, they can still kick some butt.

On the flip side, they're beatable. Derek Anderson has not been playing well. By the time we're playing them, we could be facing Brady Quinn and Quinn might be playing even worse than Anderson.

dalemurphy
10-21-2008, 03:58 PM
Geez Dale, I do have to respectfully disagree with you. I do believe we are still at a deficit in talent AND coaching AND GMing with the top half of the NFL. It's going to take alot more than barely squeeking by the Lions at home to show this.

Teams clearly better than us:

Tennessee
Indianapolis? (maybe, if healthy)
Pittsburgh
NYGiants
Green Bay


that's about all I can think of...

Jacksonville... maybe?

Buffalo- I'd rather have their schedule, but that's about it.

Washington- I don't get this team at all. so, I don't know what to think.

Dallas has more talent but they're old, poor coaching, and a fiasco in the front office

Philadelphia definitely has us in coaching but I'd rather have our talent and youth.

Definitely not better than us:
NYJets
Miami
Cleveland
Cincinnati
Baltimore
KC
Denver
Oakland
Detroit
Chicago
TB
Carolina
N.O.
Atlanta
SF
Seattle
St Louis

dalemurphy
10-21-2008, 04:00 PM
Realize that since the beginning of '07, we are 9-4 outside of our division... that includes the injury ravaged season we had last year. I get as frustrated as anybody that we lose games but the only thing that points to losing now is our history- not the team that I'm watching play. Some of you are still too emotionally battered to see that this team's pretty good.

HOU-TEX
10-21-2008, 04:03 PM
Teams clearly better than us:

Tennessee
Indianapolis? (maybe, if healthy)
Pittsburgh
NYGiants
Green Bay


that's about all I can think of...

Jacksonville... maybe?

Buffalo- I'd rather have their schedule, but that's about it.

Washington- I don't get this team at all. so, I don't know what to think.

Dallas has more talent but they're old, poor coaching, and a fiasco in the front office

Philadelphia definitely has us in coaching but I'd rather have our talent and youth.

Definitely not better than us:
NYJets
Miami
Cleveland
Cincinnati
Baltimore
KC
Denver
Oakland
Detroit
Chicago
TB
Carolina
N.O.
Atlanta
SF
Seattle
St Louis

LOL! Wow! Did you soak your dooby in the Kool-aid before you smoked it or what? :spit:

Texanmike02
10-21-2008, 04:04 PM
Teams clearly better than us:

Tennessee
Indianapolis? (maybe, if healthy)
Pittsburgh
NYGiants
Green Bay


that's about all I can think of...

Jacksonville... maybe?

Buffalo- I'd rather have their schedule, but that's about it.

Washington- I don't get this team at all. so, I don't know what to think.

Dallas has more talent but they're old, poor coaching, and a fiasco in the front office

Philadelphia definitely has us in coaching but I'd rather have our talent and youth.

Definitely not better than us:
NYJets
Miami
Cleveland
Cincinnati
Baltimore
KC
Denver
Oakland
Detroit
Chicago
TB
Carolina
N.O.
Atlanta
SF
Seattle
St Louis

If you change the title of those groups to "Teams that should beat us 9 out of ten times" and "Teams that we should be .500 or better against. I'll agree with you. We are the epitome of an average football team. Its not where we want to be ultimately, but its a hell of a lot better than you could say 2+ years ago.

Mike

DexmanC
10-21-2008, 04:15 PM
If we believe that barely beating the Lions and sitting at 2-4 is "arriving" or "turning the corner" then all I can say is that we turned the corner and arrived at slightly below mediocre.

The New England Patriots got DESTROYED by the Dolphins (who the Texans
beat.), and last night the Patriots DESTROYED the Broncos 34-0 (whose
defense is worse than that of the Texans.)

That's life in the NFL, any given Sunday.

Before Kubiak, the Texans were a penciled-in win for all the Texans'
opponents. Jim Mora has famous Youtube clips for dissing the young
Peyton Manning in Indianapolis. Young teams take time to mature.
You see the flashes of brilliance in a monsoon of mistakes. That's what
young teams do. Kubiak can preach 'till he's blue in the face about how
to "close out a game." The message doesn't hit home to the players
until you have a couple games like Miami and Detroit.

Sure, the Texans could have done like New Orleans or Miami. Pay a bunch
of veterans, win quickly, maybe advance deep into the playoffs. Such
runs are short-lived, because veterans last only so long. The Texans'
drafts, under Kubiak have been the best in franchise HISTORY. It just
goes to show you how BADLY the team drafted before '06. Just ONE
bad draft will set you back YEARS.

This team is getting better weekly, and when it gets good, it will be good
for a long time. We won't have a team of mercenaries. We will have a
team whose core will be home-grown.

Shut up, enjoy the progress, and quit diving off and on the bandwagon.
The Texans ain't the Oilers. Kubiak ain't Capers. Schaub ain't Moon.
Mcnair aint' Bud. Kubiak got us to where we are now, and he's not done
yet.

Runner
10-21-2008, 04:19 PM
If you change the title of those groups to "Teams that should beat us 9 out of ten times" and "Teams that we should be .500 or better against. I'll agree with you. We are the epitome of an average football team. Its not where we want to be ultimately, but its a hell of a lot better than you could say 2+ years ago.


This is closer to reality IMO.

dalemurphy
10-21-2008, 04:38 PM
If you change the title of those groups to "Teams that should beat us 9 out of ten times" and "Teams that we should be .500 or better against. I'll agree with you. We are the epitome of an average football team. Its not where we want to be ultimately, but its a hell of a lot better than you could say 2+ years ago.

Mike

What teams should beat us 9 out of 10? Does someone want to dispute that we'd have 10 wins if we played in the NFC south or west, or the AFC west? We're an above average team. 9-4 since 2007 outside of our division. The only team that looks better than us in our division is Tennessee.

Make sure you remember this when we finish this season with 9 or 10 wins!

barrett
10-21-2008, 04:45 PM
Barrett, I'm close to agreeing with you on this. I can agree that we're at a better level than we've been to date and that is progress. However, would you think it is fair to say that we have consistency problems because we ARE still at a somewhat deficit to the top of the league in talent and coaching and gm-ing?

Further, while the improvement is there, would you not say it is fair to have expected more from Kubiak/Smith/Smith by now?

i'm not sure how i feel about why we have consistency problems other than we are extremely young and inexperienced.

look, the things that i'm seeing aren't W's and L's. someone can talk about that all you want but that gets pretty boring if you ask me. W's and gloating. L's and soap. it's always the same. but i'm trying to figure out what the hell i'm looking at from sunday to sunday. i sit up there in 636 with my binoculars and i watch individual matchups. (i don't think i've seen a play in two years!) i'm kidding. but i do watch alot of individual matchups. i review the video when i can and what i see are players dominating their opponent about 60% of the time.

i see a guy like diles make a huge play in the backfield and blow up a RT and slap a RB and dive at the QB and just miss! or sack him! and then, sometimes i see him out of position, with bad angles, bad tackling or just a general lack of awareness.

this is true for multiple players on this team. ON DEFENSE TOO! i'd be willing to bet that Kubiak sits in his office some days and scratches his head or taps his own personal podium and says.... these guys are good. why the hell aren't they good consistently? i know that's what i see and what i say. it's his job to figure it out... is he doing that? i think so. every aspect of this team has improved since game one of his tenure.

the qb position was improved and had continued to get better. (big picture here people!) the running backs, oLine, WR's have all gotten better since his arrival ALL OF THEM. AJ included.

defensively we are better. we do have better depth. the same head scratching events take place with those guys.

reeves is ALL OVER HIS GUY all game and then he doesn't play the ball. faggins, bennett it's the same story. these guys aren't bad. they aren't beat consistently. they are beat inconsistently. they dominate inconsistently. it's not like they are just sh!tty. i'd say our DLine was the most consistently poor of all the positions on this whole team AND IT HAS IMPROVED you can't watch the film and say we're not getting pressure. we are.

i see more near sacks than ever before.

BUT NEAR SACKS DON'T WIN BALL GAMES BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH....

no. and conversely, we don't win all the games we play. we win the ones when we get more pressure more often and when the CB's are all over their guys MORE CONSISTENTLY and when the quarterback is more consistent.... you see where this is going.

what i'm seeing is a team that is getting closer on the almost sacks and the runs are getting longer and the cutback lanes are getting wider and the quarterback is torching the D more frequently, wide receivers more and more clutch etc. etc. etc. we are improving.

i agree that we were slow out of the gate. so it feels like we've taken a step back but IN THE BIG PICTURE we've continued to grow better and better.

see?

Bipolar The Titan
10-21-2008, 05:37 PM
win two in a row and now you can beat anyone?

NBT
10-21-2008, 05:42 PM
I agree. If the Texans can make the offense and defense both good at the same time, we will be better with what we have. If we can put two halves together we will be better than we are now. Both of these things are possible for this team. The coaches just need to keep working with the team on the little things, the angles, the out of position, the not being on the same page with one another, we will be better. We just have to keep working and trying. At some point we will put it all together. I just hope it is sooner, than later.

maddogmrb
10-21-2008, 05:49 PM
Sure, the Texans could have done like New Orleans or Miami. Pay a bunch
of veterans, win quickly, maybe advance deep into the playoffs. Such
runs are short-lived, because veterans last only so long.

This team is getting better weekly, and when it gets good, it will be good
for a long time. We won't have a team of mercenaries. We will have a
team whose core will be home-grown.

Shut up, enjoy the progress, and quit diving off and on the bandwagon.
yet.


Comment #1: We HAVE been signing veterans EVERY off-season ....... they just haven't been worth crxp!

Comment #2: We've been saying since Kubiak/Smith/Smith got here that we're "getting better every week". Yet, we started the season getting destroyed by the Steelers and last week barely beat a lousy Lions team in our stadium and now we're sitting at 2-4! This team should be further along under K/S/S.

Comment #3: You SHUT UP and go suck your kool-aid pop.

DexmanC
10-21-2008, 06:16 PM
...

DexmanC
10-21-2008, 06:29 PM
i'm not sure how i feel about why we have consistency problems other than we are extremely young and inexperienced.

look, the things that i'm seeing aren't W's and L's. someone can talk about that all you want but that gets pretty boring if you ask me. W's and gloating. L's and soap. it's always the same. but i'm trying to figure out what the hell i'm looking at from sunday to sunday. i sit up there in 636 with my binoculars and i watch individual matchups. (i don't think i've seen a play in two years!) i'm kidding. but i do watch alot of individual matchups. i review the video when i can and what i see are players dominating their opponent about 60% of the time.

i see a guy like diles make a huge play in the backfield and blow up a RT and slap a RB and dive at the QB and just miss! or sack him! and then, sometimes i see him out of position, with bad angles, bad tackling or just a general lack of awareness.

this is true for multiple players on this team. ON DEFENSE TOO! i'd be willing to bet that Kubiak sits in his office some days and scratches his head or taps his own personal podium and says.... these guys are good. why the hell aren't they good consistently? i know that's what i see and what i say. it's his job to figure it out... is he doing that? i think so. every aspect of this team has improved since game one of his tenure.

the qb position was improved and had continued to get better. (big picture here people!) the running backs, oLine, WR's have all gotten better since his arrival ALL OF THEM. AJ included.

defensively we are better. we do have better depth. the same head scratching events take place with those guys.

reeves is ALL OVER HIS GUY all game and then he doesn't play the ball. faggins, bennett it's the same story. these guys aren't bad. they aren't beat consistently. they are beat inconsistently. they dominate inconsistently. it's not like they are just sh!tty. i'd say our DLine was the most consistently poor of all the positions on this whole team AND IT HAS IMPROVED you can't watch the film and say we're not getting pressure. we are.

i see more near sacks than ever before.

BUT NEAR SACKS DON'T WIN BALL GAMES BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH....

no. and conversely, we don't win all the games we play. we win the ones when we get more pressure more often and when the CB's are all over their guys MORE CONSISTENTLY and when the quarterback is more consistent.... you see where this is going.

what i'm seeing is a team that is getting closer on the almost sacks and the runs are getting longer and the cutback lanes are getting wider and the quarterback is torching the D more frequently, wide receivers more and more clutch etc. etc. etc. we are improving.

i agree that we were slow out of the gate. so it feels like we've taken a step back but IN THE BIG PICTURE we've continued to grow better and better.

see?


:goodpost:

couldn't have said it better myself

Many posters here see NOTHING but W's and L's. The fans that go to the games
day-in-day-out, watch for improvement in the PLAY ON THE FIELD. The 2005 Texans
were the most ATROCIOUS representation of an NFL team I had ever seen take the field
Since then, as was stated EVERY facet of this team has gotten YOUNGER, and MORE
TALENTED.

All that's needed now is EXPERIENCE.

Maddogmrb is obviously a watcher of W's and L's, and can't enjoy the great team
being built right before his eyes. Kubiak has 3 Superbowl Rings. I think he knows a thing
or two about how championship teams are built. The man is very honest, and pulls no punches.
His teams have NEVER quit no matter how many scores they were down. Play on the field, thats
what I come to watch every week. The Colts have OWNED the Texans since the beginning of
time. It was under Kubiak that we defeated them, and have come close to destroying them,
save the one-man meltdown. Talk to me about how the PLAY ON THE FIELD is not improving
every week, and I'll be listening to someone who's not watching the same team.

The Pencil Neck
10-21-2008, 07:58 PM
win two in a row and now you can beat anyone?

We thought we could beat anyone coming into the season.

Then many of us lost faith.

Runner
10-21-2008, 08:51 PM
.... then, well, to be frank, you're a dolt. go route for the Longhorns or the Cowboys.

So if someone doesn't share one of your speculative and highly subjective opinions he is a dolt? Being somewhat of a logophile, I also have a word for people who think that way. Being a mod, I'll leave it at that.

As stated earlier I do enjoy words. Can you explain to this apparent dolt how to "route" for someone?


Realize that since the beginning of '07, we are 9-4 outside of our division... that includes the injury ravaged season we had last year. I get as frustrated as anybody that we lose games but the only thing that points to losing now is our history- not the team that I'm watching play. Some of you are still too emotionally battered to see that this team's pretty good.

I've enjoyed your posts over the years. You've always seemed pretty level headed to me and often bring a fresh insight. It appears to me that you and your buddy have a little thing going to be very optimistic and upbeat. That's cool - we all have our opinions. I also like your presentation of supporting your position better than the name calling and being oh-so-smart by using a "(" instead of a "c" to spell out "bad" words. One way invites discussion, the other derision.

Now to discuss your post. We do have some good statistics to look at this year and last, both offensively this season and W-L if you slice, dice, and extract everything just right. However, you blame people for looking at the history of the Texans rather than accepting a speculative 9-1 finish as the definition of who the Texans are. The problem is, history - including recent history - are facts. Speculation is just that. A prediction based on emotion as well as the trending data you are presenting.

The Texans played four teams to start the year that beat us. You claim now that after six games we could usually beat or contend with every one of those teams. So it would be what 2-2 if they played them now (3-1 if they caught a couple of breaks)? Three weeks ago it was 0-4. Not that much has changed, except we beat, not very convincingly, a decent team and a really bad team. That's why I'm not so rah-rah, and we haven't even discussed defense.

=====================================
=====================================

More Speculation!

I don't think they should lose to the Bengals. But they might.

If the Texans do lay an egg and get beat by the winless Bengals (who according to your projections and stats they should crush), this is what will happen.

1) We would have beat the Bengals except for the play calling, the interception in the red zone, and the 80 yard touchdown. So we really didn't lose. (or loose to some posters) :)

2) The Vikings become another statement game.

3) The Texans win.

4) Positive posters won't be able to understand why people don't see that the Texans are going to finish 7-1 and make the play-offs, since the Vikings were supposed to be good this year.


I think this is more likely than 9-1 to finish, but that is just my opinion. I won't get mad at you if you don't embrace my vision.

dalemurphy
10-21-2008, 09:30 PM
So if someone doesn't share one of your speculative and highly subjective opinions he is a dolt? Being somewhat of a logophile, I also have a word for people who think that way. Being a mod, I'll leave it at that.

As stated earlier I do enjoy words. Can you explain to this apparent dolt how to "route" for someone?




I've enjoyed your posts over the years. You've always seemed pretty level headed to me and often bring a fresh insight. It appears to me that you and your buddy have a little thing going to be very optimistic and upbeat. That's cool - we all have our opinions. I also like your presentation of supporting your position better than the name calling and being oh-so-smart by using a "(" instead of a "c" to spell out "bad" words. One way invites discussion, the other derision.

Now to discuss your post. We do have some good statistics to look at this year and last, both offensively this season and W-L if you slice, dice, and extract everything just right. However, you blame people for looking at the history of the Texans rather than accepting a speculative 9-1 finish as the definition of who the Texans are. The problem is, history - including recent history - are facts. Speculation is just that. A prediction based on emotion as well as the trending data you are presenting.

The Texans played four teams to start the year that beat us. You claim now that after six games we could usually beat or contend with every one of those teams. So it would be what 2-2 if they played them now (3-1 if they caught a couple of breaks)? Three weeks ago it was 0-4. Not that much has changed, except we beat, not very convincingly, a decent team and a really bad team. That's why I'm not so rah-rah, and we haven't even discussed defense.

=====================================
=====================================

More Speculation!

I don't think they should lose to the Bengals. But they might.

If the Texans do lay an egg and get beat by the winless Bengals (who according to your projections and stats they should crush), this is what will happen.

1) We would have beat the Bengals except for the play calling, the interception in the red zone, and the 80 yard touchdown. So we really didn't lose. (or loose to some posters) :)

2) The Vikings become another statement game.

3) The Texans win.

4) Positive posters won't be able to understand why people don't see that the Texans are going to finish 7-1 and make the play-offs, since the Vikings were supposed to be good this year.


I think this is more likely than 9-1 to finish, but that is just my opinion. I won't get mad at you if you don't embrace my vision.

I don't mean to suggest that you shouldn't look at what this team has done. I've watched each game this season at least twice- except the Detroit game which I couldn't rewatch because it wasn't on TV in Austin. We played poorly the first two games and have played pretty well since then. If you go back and look at my posts, you'll see what I thought of the Pittsburgh game... Our QB received a concussion and was left in the game which ruined any chance we had to win. Also, our safeties and LBs were so out of position that our defense had little chance. Both of those issues have been corrected. Since week one, we've found a RB, stayed very healthy, found a better DL rotation, our young SLB has improved, Dunta is now back, Gibbs' system is taking hold on offense. These are all good things that can't be summed up in the record.

There is a fan mentality, which I fight to overcome with myself, that is very inwardly focused. Instead of experiencing the game and the team in front of you, fans relive the emotions and disappointments in their past. For instance, some fans believe that the Texans are destined to lose partly because of their experience with the Oilers. It really has nothing to do with what is possible for the Texans organization but instead an altered perception of reality based on all the previous disappointments.

I do it too. When I was sitting in the stands at the end of the Indy game, I certainly thought to myself "hear we go again (when has this team blown a lead like that?) we'll never be any good, we'll never get over the hump, etc..." Why? It wasn't a rational reaction. After some distance from the disappointment and rewatching of the game, I saw that there was a lot to be encouraged about. This is a team that looks better than any I've ever seen with this franchise.

When I say that this team is pretty good, I don't mean they've had a good season or that they are elite. I mean that as of week 7 of the NFL, I think this team would beat the majority (16) of the NFL teams in most (more than half) weeks. Furthermore, since there are no great teams in this year's NFL, I don't see any teams that I don't feel we have a pretty good chance of beating. I don't think that's be optimistic. I am being optimistic when I say that this team is going to get to 10 wins. I realize that may not happen and that the odds of it happening are fairly slim. But, I do see something happening with this team, I think, and as a fan, the least I can do is risk a little disappointment and come out looking a little foolish. It'll make it just a bit more sweeter when it happens!

Goldensilence
10-22-2008, 02:49 AM
I'd put it this way at this moment the offense right now looks like it MIGHT have turned a corner. Need to bang ball security and throwing it away. This is all subject to change.


Defense not so much.

I think we're solid on special teams.

Texanmike02
10-22-2008, 05:00 AM
What teams should beat us 9 out of 10? Does someone want to dispute that we'd have 10 wins if we played in the NFC south or west, or the AFC west? We're an above average team. 9-4 since 2007 outside of our division. The only team that looks better than us in our division is Tennessee.

Make sure you remember this when we finish this season with 9 or 10 wins!

Two weeks ago when we were 0-4 and I was saying that there were things to be positive about people were laughing at me. Last season after our 8-8 finish, and before the start of this season I was saying we were going to start the season poorly amidst all of the euphoria and excitement surrounding this team. My point is that I'm pretty level headed. I'm trying to look at this objectively and figur out where we are. Where do we really rank among teams in the NFL. Keep in mind that teams like Indy, Dallas and SD are playing possum. They will right the ship and wind up winning more than 10 games. NE is a bettter team than us no doubt, they are missing two of their best players on offense so I'm gong to leave them out because its impossible to access. Here is how I would break it down.

Significantly better than us:

Pitt
Tenn
SD
DAL
NYG
**********
That is the cut off of teams who should beat us the vast majority of the time (8/10 or better)

Teams that are flat out better than us (should go .600 or better against us in a 10 game series)
WAS
GB
IND
Dare I say it? ARI
CAR
J-ville

Teams that are in the same league(we would win between 4 to 6 out of ten against them:

Balt
Den
Cle
Philadelphia
CHI
Min
TB
ATL
NO


Teams that we are significantly better than (we would go better than .600 vs them)
STL
SF
SEA
DET
NYJ
MIA
CIN
OAK
KC


That leaves us at significantly better than 9 wins. We are about as good as 9 teams and worse than 11 of them. Sounds like we are a very average team. Yeah I know about the Indy game, but lets see we're 1-12 vs them with their current nucleus... doesn't matter if we lose by 3 or 30 they beat the hell out of us. Jacksonville's current regiem has killed us when they weren't playing their backups. Tenn... do I need to explain?

Furthermore, the bottom line is we are 2-4. Chalk one of them up to injury (and bad backup play) but this isn't a 2-4 team that has a history of winning and just had a bad streak to start the season. Indy SD etc get the benifit of the doubt. They have figured out how to win. How can you call the Jax/IND losses as flukes for a team that has yet to finish above .500. I know Schaub probably doesn't make those mistake, but this team hasn't really learned how to win. This team is on the upswing, I believe that. But to say that when we are 2-4 that we are a 9 or 10 win team, is a huge leap of faith IMHO.

I think this is a 7-8 win team. The quality of teams in this league is pretty sad right now to say the least. A few teams seem to have what it takes, the rest are lacking. The differnce between a 6 win team and a 9 or 10 win team is smaller than it ever has been in this league. Many times it comes down to 4 or 5 plays over the course of a season. Unfortunately, we have screwed up 2 of those plays already.


Mike

dalemurphy
10-22-2008, 08:11 AM
Two weeks ago when we were 0-4 and I was saying that there were things to be positive about people were laughing at me. Last season after our 8-8 finish, and before the start of this season I was saying we were going to start the season poorly amidst all of the euphoria and excitement surrounding this team. My point is that I'm pretty level headed. I'm trying to look at this objectively and figur out where we are. Where do we really rank among teams in the NFL. Keep in mind that teams like Indy, Dallas and SD are playing possum. They will right the ship and wind up winning more than 10 games. NE is a bettter team than us no doubt, they are missing two of their best players on offense so I'm gong to leave them out because its impossible to access. Here is how I would break it down.

Significantly better than us:

Pitt
Tenn
SD
DAL
NYG
**********
That is the cut off of teams who should beat us the vast majority of the time (8/10 or better)

Teams that are flat out better than us (should go .600 or better against us in a 10 game series)
WAS
GB
IND
Dare I say it? ARI
CAR
J-ville

Teams that are in the same league(we would win between 4 to 6 out of ten against them:

Balt
Den
Cle
Philadelphia
CHI
Min
TB
ATL
NO


Teams that we are significantly better than (we would go better than .600 vs them)
STL
SF
SEA
DET
NYJ
MIA
CIN
OAK
KC


That leaves us at significantly better than 9 wins. We are about as good as 9 teams and worse than 11 of them. Sounds like we are a very average team. Yeah I know about the Indy game, but lets see we're 1-12 vs them with their current nucleus... doesn't matter if we lose by 3 or 30 they beat the hell out of us. Jacksonville's current regiem has killed us when they weren't playing their backups. Tenn... do I need to explain?

Furthermore, the bottom line is we are 2-4. Chalk one of them up to injury (and bad backup play) but this isn't a 2-4 team that has a history of winning and just had a bad streak to start the season. Indy SD etc get the benifit of the doubt. They have figured out how to win. How can you call the Jax/IND losses as flukes for a team that has yet to finish above .500. I know Schaub probably doesn't make those mistake, but this team hasn't really learned how to win. This team is on the upswing, I believe that. But to say that when we are 2-4 that we are a 9 or 10 win team, is a huge leap of faith IMHO.

I think this is a 7-8 win team. The quality of teams in this league is pretty sad right now to say the least. A few teams seem to have what it takes, the rest are lacking. The differnce between a 6 win team and a 9 or 10 win team is smaller than it ever has been in this league. Many times it comes down to 4 or 5 plays over the course of a season. Unfortunately, we have screwed up 2 of those plays already.


Mike

Tennessee schedule:
vs. Jacksonville
at Cincinnati
vs. Houston
vs. Minnesota
@ Baltimore
vs. KC

Buffalo schedule:
vs. Seattle
@ Jacksonville
vs. Oakland
@ St. Louis
@ Arizona
vs. SD

Now, we all know our schedule. How do you think these teams would be doing record-wise versus our schedule? I'd say no better than 3-3. Do you think the odds are good that we'd be 4-2 right now if we'd had the schedule that Buffalo has? UMM, Yes.

The point I'm trying to make is that this team we're watching is pretty good and capable of beating anyone in the league this year- not as a fluke. Certainly they screwed up the Indy and Jacksonville games. I'm not saying that they shouldn't have finished better or that better teams finish those games. I'm just saying that this team has shown over the past month that it can lineup and play with anyone. We haven't looked overmatched since week one at any point in the season and that is something new, especially given the ridiculously tough schedule.

Runner
10-22-2008, 09:06 AM
Projections for this team are almost always over .500. This goes double for "what if" games they won't actually play.

This is just more of the facts of Texans history vs. speculation based on positive trends discussion. The most optimistic prognostications are based on offensive trends where the Texans have shown much progress. Would anyone really be surprised if the Texans were edged by the winless Bengals in a shoot-out?

DBCooper
10-22-2008, 09:11 AM
Projections for this team are almost always over .500. This goes double for "what if" games they won't actually play.

This is just more of the facts of Texans history vs. speculation based on positive trends discussion. The most optimistic prognostications are based on offensive trends where the Texans have shown much progress. Would anyone really be surprised if the Texans were edged by the winless Bengals in a shoot-out?

or surprised that Richard Smith's defense gets burned all day?

dalemurphy
10-22-2008, 09:13 AM
Projections for this team are almost always over .500. This goes double for "what if" games they won't actually play.

This is just more of the facts of Texans history vs. speculation based on positive trends discussion. The most optimistic prognostications are based on offensive trends where the Texans have shown much progress. Would anyone really be surprised if the Texans were edged by the winless Bengals in a shoot-out?

Surprised and Devastated. Yes, I would be!

I don't think there is much reason for us to argue. I just wish more Texan fans were as excited as I am about this team. I guess that will happen soon enough... or reality will crash down around me soon enough.

Polo
10-22-2008, 09:29 AM
Lets not act like Detroit came out and stomped a mudhole in our defense...

They hit big on some big plays late in the game when it was almost decided(and a meaningless catch right before the half).

Small errors were the difference between us completely handling Detroit and Detroit making the game look closer than it was...

Yes the mistakes were bad and you can't discount them, but lets not loose a grip on reality....Detroit wasn't picking apart our defense or pounding us with the run...

whiskeyrbl
10-22-2008, 09:46 AM
I think we are close. Our offense is potent ( if we hang onto the ball), so much so I think we can go score for score with almost every team. Our defense however is for the most part young. We have above average players in Mario, Demeco and DRob(when healthy) Okoye is getting better every game. After that we have Diles who is in his first year as a starter doing a fine job, Greenwood is average and probably gonna get pushed out next year. Bulman has been a surprise( a good one) TJ, I don't know. We have two young Dline who I think will crack the line next year in Okam and Robinson. I think a healthy Adibi, and we have the fastest and probably best trio of LB's in the leauge next year. Now for our achilles heel. The DB's. A healthy Drob is a top 10 CB for sure. Bennett has shown promise. As far as #35 Reeves, he can cover anyone, he just never looks for the ball. Our safeties are either bad or real young and inexperienced with the exception of Demps who plays good most of the time. I think we should go after a Top Teir safety and CB in FA next year. We need to draft a top DE and a Big Bruising back to swap out with Slaton and Green(if he can stay healthy). Another point I wanted to make is , Do y'all realize we have committed as many penalties as we have turnovers? 12, Hang onto the ball we win ballgames. P.S. Get a new DC !!!!

Runner
10-22-2008, 10:08 AM
Lets not act like Detroit came out and stomped a mudhole in our defense...

They hit big on some big plays late in the game when it was almost decided(and a meaningless catch right before the half).

Small errors were the difference between us completely handling Detroit and Detroit making the game look closer than it was...

Yes the mistakes were bad and you can't discount them, but lets not loose a grip on reality....Detroit wasn't picking apart our defense or pounding us with the run...
Yet somehow this lousy team that apparently did nothing offensively hung 18 points on the Texans in the second half.

Excuses aside, that is even more cause for concern. What if the Bengals do something right? They actually have some weapons.

otisbean
10-22-2008, 11:02 AM
LOL...You think our offense is elite?

I've still yet to see Matt Schaub play at a high level (start to finish) against a dominant defense...

And even if I give you the Jags game from this yr. (I wouldn't consider their defense to be all that intimidating at this point) that'd bring his good performances against good defenses to a grand total of 1...

Let me see Matt Schaub perform against Baltimore, the Titans or any other defense good at applying pressure...until then it's a milestone he's yet to pass...

Most QBs will struggle against elite defenses. That where the "defense wins championships" comes from. Why do you think P Manning only has one SB ring? Brady's rings have as much to do with their defense as anything he has done, and I think he is the best QB in recent years, by far.

We have the 5th ranked offense in the NFL, the 6th ranked passing offense in the NFL, and we are 14th in points scored. Take away the TOs and we would easily be in the top 5 or 6 in scoring as well. Matt does make mistakes, no question, but he is learning and improving. As the OL improves (they ain't there yet) he will get better and better. As the running game improves he will get better and better.

I don't think Schaub is cut from the same cloth as Manning, Brady or Favre, but he is capable of being a winning QB. He just needs some more help. I think of Schaub as a Phil Simms type of QB, and if memory serves he has a SB ring to his credits. This team needs to make a big improvement defensively to take the next step.

Polo
10-22-2008, 11:09 AM
Most QBs will struggle against elite defenses.

Matt Schaub hasn't just struggled against good defenses...

Overall he's been terrible...

He either has gotten injured or has been a turnover machine...In many cases...both...

It's one thing for a QB to struggle or not light a defense up--It's a whole other beast though when the best defense your QB has done well against is the Jags from this yr...

I believe in Matt and I thought it was a good move to go out and get him. I'm not sold on him though until I see more steadiness from him. My biggest problem with Matt is the turnovers...If he can cut back on those then I definitely think we're capable of winning big with him...

Goldensilence
10-22-2008, 11:44 AM
Most QBs will struggle against elite defenses. That where the "defense wins championships" comes from. Why do you think P Manning only has one SB ring? Brady's rings have as much to do with their defense as anything he has done, and I think he is the best QB in recent years, by far.

We have the 5th ranked offense in the NFL, the 6th ranked passing offense in the NFL, and we are 14th in points scored. Take away the TOs and we would easily be in the top 5 or 6 in scoring as well. Matt does make mistakes, no question, but he is learning and improving. As the OL improves (they ain't there yet) he will get better and better. As the running game improves he will get better and better.

I don't think Schaub is cut from the same cloth as Manning, Brady or Favre, but he is capable of being a winning QB. He just needs some more help. I think of Schaub as a Phil Simms type of QB, and if memory serves he has a SB ring to his credits. This team needs to make a big improvement defensively to take the next step.

I think more along the lines of Matt Hasselbeck is what I would say Schaub is capable of. I think Phil had two rings unless it was Hostettler(sp) that won the second one.

barrett
10-22-2008, 03:05 PM
again, all the complaints focus on the mistakes. rightfully so. but in between the mistakes is generally above average play from alot of these guys.

in a much shorter post, ...that's what i'm trying to say.

go texans.

barrett
10-27-2008, 01:53 PM
ahem...

DBCooper
10-27-2008, 02:21 PM
ahem...

You want a cookie?

DexmanC
10-27-2008, 02:27 PM
ahem...

Good one, Barrett
lol!
:whip:

Runner
10-27-2008, 03:01 PM
ahem...

Don't hurt yourself patting yourself on the back. Beating the lowly Bengals isn't a "step to the next level". At least I hope the Texans were already at that level. An average team should be able to beat one of the very worst teams in the league.

dalemurphy
10-27-2008, 03:05 PM
Okay gentlemen...

we're looking at 5 weeks in a row of some pretty darn good football. We've certainly never seen anything like it here before.

We're almost a great offense. We're healthy.

Defense has been mediocre but certainly showing signs of significant improvement. Not the least of which is Dunta rounding into form. Furthermore, our safety play has improved. And, by the way, we're healthy!

One week later, can we get some agreement on the fact that this is a pretty good football team!

DBCooper
10-27-2008, 03:07 PM
Okay gentlemen...

we're looking at 5 weeks in a row of some pretty darn good football. We've certainly never seen anything like it here before.

We're almost a great offense. We're healthy.

Defense has been mediocre but certainly showing signs of significant improvement. Not the least of which is Dunta rounding into form. Furthermore, our safety play has improved. And, by the way, we're healthy!

One week later, can we get some agreement on the fact that this is a pretty good football team!

I'm still passing on the kool-aid.

I would love to be wrong though.

Runner
10-27-2008, 03:10 PM
Okay gentlemen...

we're looking at 5 weeks in a row of some pretty darn good football. We've certainly never seen anything like it here before.

We're almost a great offense. We're healthy.

Defense has been mediocre but certainly showing signs of significant improvement. Not the least of which is Dunta rounding into form. Furthermore, our safety play has improved. And, by the way, we're healthy!

One week later, can we get some agreement on the fact that this is a pretty good football team!


I agree the offense is looking sharp. I think the defense has been more a reflection of the competition than on significant improvement.

maddogmrb
10-27-2008, 06:49 PM
Okay gentlemen...

we're looking at 5 weeks in a row of some pretty darn good football. We've certainly never seen anything like it here before.

We're almost a great offense. We're healthy.

Defense has been mediocre but certainly showing signs of significant improvement. Not the least of which is Dunta rounding into form. Furthermore, our safety play has improved. And, by the way, we're healthy!

One week later, can we get some agreement on the fact that this is a pretty good football team!

Agreed ...... the team looked pretty darn good yesterday. The team has made impressive progress since weeks 1 and 2. I'm sure we've gotten better but, we also have to be a bit cautious in our optimism because of the level of our competition, too.

Congrats to the team and coaches!

spurstexanstros
10-27-2008, 07:31 PM
One step closer to operation .500 and then 10-6 until proven otherwise. oh yeah go Texans.

atxlaurie
10-28-2008, 12:21 AM
I'm just looking forward to actually seeing a game. Since Austin likes to show teams from other states and crappy espn shows one or 2 plays if we're lucky, I'm stuck with highlights on-line.

Norg
10-28-2008, 01:23 AM
I just cant wait in like 3 weeks we got another Crack at Indy ..... Payback is a ***** !!!!!!!!!! :texflag::texflag::texflag:


Iam already thinking MInn & Balty are W's in the bag MUHAHAHAH :texflag:

barrett
10-28-2008, 03:21 AM
Don't hurt yourself patting yourself on the back. Beating the lowly Bengals isn't a "step to the next level". [b]At least I hope the Texans were already at that level.[/] An average team should be able to beat one of the very worst teams in the league.


so very true. it's as if we've moved up from being one of the worst teams over the last 6 years (last year we were breaking out, cracking the egg if you will) ... to being a team that is expected to pummel one of the worst... tell me you can see that as another level of football than the one you've grown accustomed to? perhaps a new era? one where we are highly competitive and at times dominant....

one where we, if playing up to our capabilities, can expect to be competitive against, or dare i say beat, any team in the NFL.

i can't pat myself on the back. my arm is still sore from all the "first down!'s"

... a cookie will do handsomely.

go texans.

beerlover
10-28-2008, 03:39 AM
I really don't pay too much attention to all that, however the new era to me, particularly for those who attend games is the open roof atmosphere you feel @ Relient. no second guessing about whether the roof is closed or not you just show up prepared, ready to battle the elements & the team the Texans face on a Sunday afternoon. try to define it, but I think its helped the team hurdle their fears as well the fans, seems like the seats are filled & the team is responding in kind. like it or not football was meant to be played outdoors & I for one welcome the change along with adjustment to weather conditions/winning football games :fans:

Polo
11-02-2008, 03:06 PM
LOL at your focusing on a position that, when compared to others on the team is solid, while many positions are much more unstable.

I'll keep your opinion of this "milestone" MS has to pass and remind you of it when it occurs. Maybe then you'll be more likely to see the other places this team needs more immediate attention.

Still waiting on that reminder.....

:wwfsmd:

Polo
11-02-2008, 03:08 PM
Matt Schaub hasn't just struggled against good defenses...

Overall he's been terrible...

He either has gotten injured or has been a turnover machine...In many cases...both...

It's one thing for a QB to struggle or not light a defense up--It's a whole other beast though when the best defense your QB has done well against is the Jags from this yr...

I believe in Matt and I thought it was a good move to go out and get him. I'm not sold on him though until I see more steadiness from him. My biggest problem with Matt is the turnovers...If he can cut back on those then I definitely think we're capable of winning big with him...



Ahem.....

:mshadows:

Runner
11-02-2008, 03:09 PM
Well, all the fresh air and sunshine projections went up against an average team and the Texans were fairly competitive and lost to the Vikings. This new era seems more of that same old, same old except that they did blow out a very weak team.

I would define the Texans as:

1) able to readily beat bad teams
2) play competitively against average teams but lose more than they win
3) shouldn't be expected to beat top teams

In other words, somewhere between top of the bottom of the league and average.

In spite of all of the hater talk and sarcasm directed at those who didn't think the Texans proved they were at a new level by blowing out the Bengals, it seems those opinions were the closer to reality.

I'm sure there will be spins explaining why the Texans "shoulda" beat the Vikings and why the game proves they are competitive against the elite, but pardon me if I don't buy them. Again.

spurstexanstros
11-02-2008, 03:51 PM
One step closer to operation .500 and then 10-6 until proven otherwise. oh yeah go Texans.

ok one step back from operation .500 but all we need is a three game win streak and we will be above .500. Oh yeah go texans.

otisbean
11-02-2008, 04:53 PM
Ahem.....

:mshadows:

Are you really quoting yourself? WOW. You gotta love guys that blame everything on the QB, because he is the only one on the field.

If you seriously can't see that in all the games we lost our OL was dominated than I am not sure what to say. You put that kind of pressure on any QB and they will turn the ball. Rewatch Brady against SD two years ago when SD should have won - they would have if Marlon McCree falls down after picking BRady off.

spurstexanstros
11-02-2008, 05:44 PM
Are you really quoting yourself? WOW. You gotta love guys that blame everything on the QB, because he is the only one on the field.

If you seriously can't see that in all the games we lost our OL was dominated than I am not sure what to say. You put that kind of pressure on any QB and they will turn the ball. Rewatch Brady against SD two years ago when SD should have won - they would have if Marlon McCree falls down after picking BRady off.

There is nothing wrong with quoting yourself..However, I wouldnt recommend over doing it, you may go blind. Or is that self repping?

( hey we need some levity today)

Runner
11-02-2008, 05:50 PM
There is nothing wrong with quoting yourself..However, I wouldnt recommend over doing it, you may go blind. Or is that self repping?

( hey we need some levity today)

More like a premature I-told-you-so.

Polo
11-02-2008, 08:16 PM
Are you really quoting yourself? WOW. You gotta love guys that blame everything on the QB, because he is the only one on the field.

If you seriously can't see that in all the games we lost our OL was dominated than I am not sure what to say. You put that kind of pressure on any QB and they will turn the ball. Rewatch Brady against SD two years ago when SD should have won - they would have if Marlon McCree falls down after picking BRady off.

At some point a QB has to be able to play solid despite getting pressured...

Schaub has refused to do so up until this point...

hradhak
11-02-2008, 08:25 PM
It's one thing to be pressured and take a sack or throw an incomplete.
Turning the ball over though is unacceptable. Protect the ball and take the sack or throw it away. Punt it and live to fight another day.

otisbean
11-02-2008, 10:19 PM
At some point a QB has to be able to play solid despite getting pressured...

Schaub has refused to do so up until this point...

I get what you are saying, but there is pressure and there is an OL getting dominated. In the first half I saw our OL get dominated. I have no problem holding QBs accountable, Schaubs pass to Leech was terrible, as was Rosenfels to Walter. The fumble was an excellent play by a top level DE. Brown had blocked Allen well, Allen just threw his arm out and caught Schaub when trying to throw. In the games this year Schaub has really struggled our OL was REALLY Bad, Tenn was all Schaub though. I expect Brown to struggle some, he is a rookie starting at one of the most difficult positions in the league, but the interior of the line has really struggled against good DLs. That is a concern. If Schaub cannot step up to throw there is not much he can do. He doesn't have the arm to throw well off his back foot, ala Favre or ELway.

Texan JBZ
11-02-2008, 11:28 PM
At some point a QB has to be able to play solid despite getting pressured...

Schaub has refused to do so up until this point...

Tell that to Romo, Manning, and Brady before you give Schaub a call

barrett
12-16-2008, 02:29 AM
in all seriousness and not at all looking for any more cookies (thanks to everyone who sent them though! they were delicious!) you might want to go back and re-read this thread from the beginning. there is some pretty interesting foresight into the way this season has unfolded. some peoples predictions or assessments have been pretty good. some, not so much. but over all just a very entertaining read.

i really do love cookies though...

Go Texans.

threetoedpete
12-16-2008, 03:10 AM
Don't know exactly what you're eating this morning...However, We are second in the league in turnovers. We've just completed a 2-4 division record after the 1-5 division record in '07. They were too immature to stand up to an Arduous opening five. They were too immature to beat the colts and the Jags when it would of meant something. three years from now no one outside of this board will remember what the record was in '08. bottom line they are an inconsistent and young football team learning how to win football games. They stand pat, it will be more of the same .500 inconsistent football next year.

dalemurphy
12-16-2008, 03:14 AM
Teams clearly better than us:

Tennessee
Indianapolis? (maybe, if healthy)
Pittsburgh
NYGiants
Green Bay


that's about all I can think of...

Jacksonville... maybe?

Buffalo- I'd rather have their schedule, but that's about it.

Washington- I don't get this team at all. so, I don't know what to think.

Dallas has more talent but they're old, poor coaching, and a fiasco in the front office

Philadelphia definitely has us in coaching but I'd rather have our talent and youth.

Definitely not better than us:
NYJets
Miami
Cleveland
Cincinnati
Baltimore
KC
Denver
Oakland
Detroit
Chicago
TB
Carolina
N.O.
Atlanta
SF
Seattle
St Louis


I feel like an *****! Green Bay better than us?! Man, I really was underappreciating this team back then.


Okay so perhaps Baltimore is better right now and certainly Carolina is having themselves a special year, but that sure is a long list of teams that we can beat and should be... aint' it?

I don't feel that I need any apologies or positive "reps". Really, all that I'd like is for every member of this board to quietly think to themselves, "man, that dalemurphy guy is some kind of football genius!":tiphat:

dalemurphy
12-16-2008, 03:21 AM
Don't know exactly what you're eating this morning...However, We are second in the league in turnovers. We've just completed a 2-4 division record after the 1-5 division record in '07. They were too immature to stand up to an Arduous opening five. They were too immature to beat the colts and the Jags when it would of meant something. three years from now no one outside of this board will remember what the record was in '08. bottom line they are an inconsistent and young football team learning how to win football games. They stand pat, it will be more of the same .500 inconsistent football next year.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I'd like to present "threetoedpete" with the 2008 award for the Pessismist of the Year! Congratulations, you have earned it.

6 pages of healthy dialogue discussing how close this team is and how much better football they are playing and will be playing in the near future... All of that, and now we've just won 4 in a row, including games vs Tennessee and at Green Bay... Despite that, your response to it all is predicting a disappointing season in 2009? wow!

dalemurphy
12-16-2008, 03:29 AM
At some point a QB has to be able to play solid despite getting pressured...

Schaub has refused to do so up until this point...

Was the point at which he started do that the Green Bay game or the Tennessee game? I'd say it started on the second pass of the Green Bay game when he stepped into about 1200 lbs of angry green and yellow in order to hit Walter for a 58 yard TD. However, certainly you can point to the almost 300 yard passing with 0 interceptions against a Titan team that knocked him down about 20 times- often well after the play was over.

threetoedpete
12-16-2008, 04:28 AM
Ladies and Gentlemen, I'd like to present "threetoedpete" with the 2008 award for the Pessismist of the Year! Congratulations, you have earned it.

6 pages of healthy dialogue discussing how close this team is and how much better football they are playing and will be playing in the near future... All of that, and now we've just won 4 in a row, including games vs Tennessee and at Green Bay... Despite that, your response to it all is predicting a disappointing season in 2009? wow!

Well go ahead and put up your twelve and four next august. What I'm seeing is an april devoid of a first step guy. and currently a lot of peolpe pushing saftey's next April. that there thingy has diaster written all over it. Let me know when you feel we sweep the Jags and the Colts next ?

dalemurphy
12-16-2008, 06:39 AM
Well go ahead and put up your twelve and four next august. What I'm seeing is an april devoid of a first step guy. and currently a lot of peolpe pushing saftey's next April. that there thingy has diaster written all over it. Let me know when you feel we sweep the Jags and the Colts next ?

Umm, okay, I'll go out on a limb and predict we sweep the Jags. It's ridiculously early but since we're good and they're in disarray- I'll do it.

Runner
12-16-2008, 08:20 AM
I wondered when this would be brought back to the top. It was strangely missing during the last losing streak. I guess I should have pulled it back up since I was predicting something less than a 9-0 finish.

Silver Oak
12-16-2008, 09:14 AM
I love it when old threads get unearthed for their revealing posts...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Polo
LOL...You think our offense is elite?

I've still yet to see Matt Schaub play at a high level (start to finish) against a dominant defense...

And even if I give you the Jags game from this yr. (I wouldn't consider their defense to be all that intimidating at this point) that'd bring his good performances against good defenses to a grand total of 1...

Let me see Matt Schaub perform against Baltimore, the Titans or any other defense good at applying pressure...until then it's a milestone he's yet to pass...

Reply from Silver Oak:

LOL at your focusing on a position that, when compared to others on the team is solid, while many positions are much more unstable.

I'll keep your opinion of this "milestone" MS has to pass and remind you of it when it occurs. Maybe then you'll be more likely to see the other places this team needs more immediate attention.

beerlover
12-16-2008, 09:24 AM
phase two started when Kubiak arrived it just took three years to rebuild what was incomplete. come along ways baby, just imagine another three years @ this rate the Texans will not only win the AFC South they will be driving deep into the post season :trophy:

Dread-Head
12-16-2008, 09:51 AM
Texans offense will never be elite with the QB's turning it over so much.

True...and WHY....does....Faggins....STILL HAVE A JOB?!?! Anybody? Can't we trade him to the Cowboys? They don't have any corners...they won't even notice him for a season and a half.

ObsiWan
12-16-2008, 10:06 AM
Don't know exactly what you're eating this morning...However, We are second in the league in turnovers. We've just completed a 2-4 division record after the 1-5 division record in '07. They were too immature to stand up to an Arduous opening five. They were too immature to beat the colts and the Jags when it would of meant something. three years from now no one outside of this board will remember what the record was in '08. bottom line they are an inconsistent and young football team learning how to win football games. They stand pat, it will be more of the same .500 inconsistent football next year.

who says they'll "stand pat"??
Check the post-Titans Kubiak presser (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=5012)

This says, to me, that he knows we aren't "there" yet.
(on if he feels like the culture has changed around the Texans’ organization) “Well, it has to change over a long period of time, not one football game. You know, people have asked me, ‘Did you turn the corner? Did you do this?’ You know, I don’t know when that day will come when we say we’ve turned the corner. We all know what our goal is. We’re going to fall short of that this year – we’re not going to be a playoff team. But there’s no doubt in my mind that we’re a better football team right now. There’s two very important football games to play. Yesterday was a big step in the right direction. We played a very physical, very good football team that we knew we would have to go toe-to-toe with them for four quarters if we were going to win, and we found a way to do that as a football team. So it was a big step.”We've found ways to win games when we're not playing the perfect game. Playoff teams do that. Look at the Chiefs yesterday; they HAD the Chargers down cold then let them up off the mat and got beat because of it.

Remember when that was us? We should. It was the first Colts game this year.

Yeah, at the first of the year, we WERE immature. I totally agree with that statement. Schaub looked shell-shocked against the Steeler rush. The defense was still in "we-dare-not-blitz-anybody" mode. We were still thinking that Slaton was just a 3rd down guy.

Who do you guys think we are now?
The team that played scared against the Steelers
or
the guys that denied Smash & Dash their usual and customary 175+ ypg output?

Jackie Chiles
12-16-2008, 12:04 PM
I will say this about the 2008 Texans: Our season will end prematurely this season. What I mean is we are playing playoff football right now and its a real shame we mucked it up at the beginning of the year because for the first time ever I feel like we could have gone into the post season and competed, maybe even pulled off a win. Last year we were technically in the playoff race longer but I knew it would be a total sham if we had made it, we would have gotten absolutely spanked. Coming into this season I was filled with cautious optimism. Going into next season for the first time (for me) its playoffs or bust.

Mr teX
12-16-2008, 12:04 PM
who says they'll "stand pat"??
Check the post-Titans Kubiak presser (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=5012)

This says, to me, that he knows we aren't "there" yet.
We've found ways to win games when we're not playing the perfect game. Playoff teams do that. Look at the Chiefs yesterday; they HAD the Chargers down cold then let them up off the mat and got beat because of it.

Remember when that was us? We should. It was the first Colts game this year.
Yeah, at the first of the year, we WERE immature. I totally agree with that statement. Schaub looked shell-shocked against the Steeler rush. The defense was still in "we-dare-not-blitz-anybody" mode. We were still thinking that Slaton was just a 3rd down guy.

Who do you guys think we are now?
The team that played scared against the Steelers
or
the guys that denied Smash & Dash their usual and customary 175+ ypg output?


i think we might've turned the corner & the bolded is the main reason why but i also think it's b/c of the way we're winning some of these games. In years past, we crumbled when the opportunity arose for us to put together or stop game-winning/key drives throughout a game. Off the top of my head, We've done the aforementioned on offense at least 4 times this season & since the defense has suddenly gotten aggressive, we've stopped those same types of drives by the opposition too many times for me to remember. The offense was ahead of the defense in that dept., but since we've gotten them both on the same page during this win streak, we've been able to effectively put the pressure back on the opposition & that's a key thing that goes into gaining confidence imo.

when i heard coaches & analysts talking about "knowing how to win" i used to think that it was just coachspeak & sports jargon b/c i couldn't really concieve of a player "not" knowing how to do that, especially on that level. Now, since we've been winning the way we have, i can see what they mean when they say that now.

barrett
12-17-2008, 02:32 AM
I wondered when this would be brought back to the top. It was strangely missing during the last losing streak. I guess I should have pulled it back up since I was predicting something less than a 9-0 finish.

did you actually read anything i wrote in this thread? do you really think this is only valid when we win?

i guess you missed the post about how wins and losses is all some can see but in actuality this team is extremely competitive from week to week. frustrating? you bet we are. (thanks gary).

come on bolder up a hill guy.....

Runner
12-17-2008, 07:23 AM
Yes I do read this thread - every time it pops back up after some wins. I just find it amusing that it shows up only when the team plays well enough to support its "rightness".

The team has a great deal of potential. That potential can still go either way. The Texans may be as good as their top performances, or they may go the way of their more tenebrous stretches.

This leaves the Texans right where they are - average. I'm still not convinced they are turning the corner or circling the block.

dalemurphy
12-17-2008, 08:11 AM
Yes I do read this thread - every time it pops back up after some wins. I just find it amusing that it shows up only when the team plays well enough to support its "rightness".
The team has a great deal of potential. That potential can still go either way. The Texans may be as good as their top performances, or they may go the way of their more tenebrous stretches.

This leaves the Texans right where they are - average. I'm still not convinced they are turning the corner or circling the block.



While I can't speak for this thread specifically regarding why it popped up after a win, the following is a copy of a thread that I started the day after the first Indy loss when we went to 0-4::

Well, after the game, sitting at the 25 yard line and surrounded by Colts' fans, I proclaimed that I was done making the drive from Austin until they had at least a .500 record.

But, I'll be there for Detroit and Cincinnati- even if they lose to Miami.

It's hard and it sucks. I'm devastated. However, I'm devastated because we're so close to being good. Clearly now, after the Colts game and Jags game, it is evident we have a team and talent in place to be good going forward. I don't mean next year or 2010, I mean next week and every week after that. So, to all of the true fans, take this shot on the chin, pick yourself up and keep embracing the team even when it doesn't make sense to. One day, maybe soon, it will pay off.

Now to the game observations upon one live and one DVRed viewing:

1. Our DL, Mario first, Okoye, Robinson, even Weaver and Bulman... they all played very well. All day long the pocket was collapsing around Manning with a 4 man rush. Also, I like that Okoye was rotated in. He seemed much more explosive and effective. He even knifed through a double team a couple of times to create serious havoc.

2. Our CBs aren't bad at all. Reeves certainly isn't special but he's solid. Bennett was very good as was............... FAGGINS. WIth Robinson's return and Molden's development, the depth at CB will be a strength going forward.

3. Very happy to see Brandon Harrison play. I thought he was an immediate upgrade in the passing game.

4. Running game is rounding into shape. The staff is learning what plays we run well. ON the Slaton 40 yarder, it was the same play we've run a number of times successfully on 3rd and mediums:

Walter, from the slot cracks back on the DE and Brown pulls around the block and leads the sweep along with Leach... It's worked each of 4 times. This time instead of creating a running lane, Leach was able to secure the edge. We'll be seeing more of that formation and plays off of it all season.

5. Diles played great. I don't understand why this game the Lbs were in position, particularly against the pass, when that's never been the case in this team's history... Perhaps some adjustments were made, dare I dream, by the defensive staff to fix that issue. I know the Diles pick, he played underneath man coverage... Maybe our safeties are better and that's helping?

6. Slaton can take a lick!

7. I didn't need Dierdorf to tell me Vonte was having a good game.

8. Faggins is back to his '06 level. pretty solid

9. We need 3 qbs on the roster. It's ridiculous that schaub was too sick to start but was our #2 qb.

ObsiWan
12-17-2008, 08:14 AM
Yes I do read this thread - every time it pops back up after some wins. I just find it amusing that it shows up only when the team plays well enough to support its "rightness".

The team has a great deal of potential. That potential can still go either way. The Texans may be as good as their top performances, or they may go the way of their more tenebrous stretches.

This leaves the Texans right where they are - average. I'm still not convinced they are turning the corner or circling the block.

oooh... "tenebrous" rep your way for improving my vocabulary
:)

back to topic...
Will you at least concede this: That we've turned A corner - from suckage to average - and are on the verge of turning THE corner - from average to playoff ready

dalemurphy
12-17-2008, 08:27 AM
oooh... "tenebrous" rep your way for improving my vocabulary
:)

back to topic...
Will you at least concede this: That we've turned A corner - from suckage to average - and are on the verge of turning THE corner - from average to playoff ready

Oh, we're playoff-ready!! Unfortunately, we're locked out this year. I don't see that happening again next year. The question for next year is, "did we do enough in the off-season to be a legitimate Superbowl contender" and of course did we avoid serious injury problems?

Runner
12-17-2008, 09:55 AM
oooh... "tenebrous" rep your way for improving my vocabulary
:)

back to topic...
Will you at least concede this: That we've turned A corner - from suckage to average - and are on the verge of turning THE corner - from average to playoff ready

I'll easily concede they've turned the corner to average. My point is that I thought they turned that same corner last year. They just circled the block during the start and middle of this season.

The Texans do look like they have great potential. This again is the same as last year. Last year's excuse was the gutting of the team because of injuries. This year hasn't been as bad in that regard. However, with Slaton added to a healthy and dominate Dre among other positive changes, the Texans are right where they ended last year. That doesn't make me all that euphoric about next year.

Yes I see the team's potential. I'm jaded enough by now to want them to prove they can reach it before I say they've turned any new corners. They have just as much history of regression as they do jumping to the next level.

SteveSlaton20
12-17-2008, 10:04 AM
Texans offense will never be elite with the QB's turning it over so much.

agreed.

Schaub and Rosenfels alone have 19 INTs and 6 Fumbles.

:gun:

Double Barrel
12-17-2008, 10:26 AM
I wonder how many teams in the NFL would be mature enough to win in spite of their city being devastated by a hurricane and having their schedule jumbled as a result. I think some fans underestimate the impact of that event on players, who are only human at the end of the day.

barrett
12-18-2008, 01:40 AM
I'll easily concede they've turned the corner to average. My point is that I thought they turned that same corner last year. They just circled the block during the start and middle of this season.

The Texans do look like they have great potential. This again is the same as last year. Last year's excuse was the gutting of the team because of injuries. This year hasn't been as bad in that regard. However, with Slaton added to a healthy and dominate Dre among other positive changes, the Texans are right where they ended last year. That doesn't make me all that euphoric about next year.

Yes I see the team's potential. I'm jaded enough by now to want them to prove they can reach it before I say they've turned any new corners. They have just as much history of regression as they do jumping to the next level.

i'm curious if there is a singularity in your mind? some sort of event that you have envisioned seeing unfold where you sit back and sigh a big sigh and say "ahhhh finally." is it a playoff win? a playoff loss? a superbowl? what is it that makes up your corner? my corner was the one that got us off the first road. the road of sucking. we're on the competitive road right now and this road seems much shorter than sucking road. this block may be kind of a rectangle. because i feel like we're pretty close to turning the next corner onto playoff road which is a pretty nice road. they have all those lighted crosswalks and bike lanes and stuff over there.

and then of course there is superbowl road.

but seriously, what will it take for you to look at how far this team has come from '02? that's why this thread is named phase two. it's the second chapter. not the final one.

go texans.

GNTLEWOLF
12-18-2008, 02:13 AM
I'm not sure if any of you remember, but we have had this discussion before. Our defense has had a history of closing out the season strong the last three years. The beginning of the next season they out right suck until the team is eliminated from the play-offs. I understand that the hurricane decimated much of the city and that the players were distracted. O.K. we give them a pass this year. What will the distraction be next year?
I have to side with Runner about not proclaiming a corner turned until I se consistant, not perfect, play from the defense, and a habit toward winning from the beginning of the year. I think the proverbial corner will not be turned until it is no longer an excuse for our guys to play sloppy, turn-over ridden ball against the Pittsburgs or the Ravens or any other team considered to be "top-tier". To have turned the corner, we can no longer accept any excuse for losing. When we have indeed turned to corner, other teams in the league will worry about playing this team, and we will be in the play-off hunt at least until the final week of the season. And then it will have to be more than just a mathematical possibility. When this team turns the corner it will win consitantly and convincingly against the teams it should beat and will win a majority of games against teams that could go either way. There will be no games that we should lose. That is the turned corner. We are not there yet even though it looks like we have improved at the end this year yet again. I am waiting to see if this team can start well and stay with a winning mentality next season because I'm sick of this same discussion every year.

p.s. The final phase will be becoming a superbowl winning team.

threetoedpete
12-18-2008, 02:25 AM
Obijuan what ever....what you have to understand at this point of the year it's really a poor spot to judge where you're at. I mean when we caught the Jags with one guard down we lost. when we caught them with four guards down we won. Is that turning the corner ? When you beat a team on account of attrition and not seeing them at their best ? I mean they go into Oakland and okoye gets a couple of sacks and mario gets a couple of sacs....do you jump and down and say you've turned a corner ? Or do you analyze the strength of the Oakland o-line and realize you caught a down unit in a down year and you did what you're supposed to do, beat a bad team . And if they lose ? Get upset on the road...do we read anything into that also ? No...this is the time of the year of attrition. Everyone is hurt. Time to evaluate was two months ago. Only thing we're evaluating now is how deep is our depth.

Look, they got to get better in the back seven....whether that is with corners , a safety or hit another Diles or Addibi guy...I don't know.

They got to find six or seven sacks from anyone not named Mario.

They must improve on the o-line to keep Matty clean. Clean he's accurate and productive. Hit....he gets hurt. He hopped up last week end. I got money says he got hurt. He's playing, but he's playing hurt to slay the dragon. No quarterback wants brittle written across his rice bowl.

walk the walk.

We'll be good when we go into Pittsburgh or New York or Miami or Indy and whip the shit out of someone for an AFC championship on the road. Until then it's all talk. Whether Kubiak is saying it. Or you are.

Texan JBZ
12-18-2008, 02:33 AM
Dammit, can we stop being f#$king cynical for one moment and enjoy the fact that out Texans are playing some kick ass football? They could have folded the tent after starting the year 0-4, but they didn't. They could have folded the tent again after losing to Baltimore and falling to 3-7, but they didn't. They've fought and played their asses off! Who cares how many players J'ville has lost? Nobody cared when the Texans led the league in players on IR for two seasons in a row. Why should we care that they have lost players for the season? I don't. Screw em.

Fact is, the Texans are 7-3 over there last ten games. That's pretty damn good. Just sit back and enjoy some winning football for once!

threetoedpete
12-18-2008, 03:42 AM
No. Because I'm not going to get the shit aggravated out of me by all of the knuckle dragger's posting 14-2 with absolutely no discernible evidence other than they "think" or "believe" it's so next august. This is self preservation. I'm enjoying the wins. I'm not buying the cow. there is a difference.

You wanna go to wonderland, vist with the Marsh hare, be my guest Alice. I'm waiting until I put my finger in the bleeding wound. Walk the fu*&king walk. Don't tell me how good you are. Stand up and prove it.

No one on this board is more ready than I am.

Grams
12-18-2008, 06:00 AM
Dammit, can we stop being f#$king cynical for one moment and enjoy the fact that out Texans are playing some kick ass football? They could have folded the tent after starting the year 0-4, but they didn't. They could have folded the tent again after losing to Baltimore and falling to 3-7, but they didn't. They've fought and played their asses off! Who cares how many players J'ville has lost? Nobody cared when the Texans led the league in players on IR for two seasons in a row. Why should we care that they have lost players for the season? I don't. Screw em.

Fact is, the Texans are 7-3 over there last ten games. That's pretty damn good. Just sit back and enjoy some winning football for once!

This team could have folded and packed it in after the way this season started. But we didn't. We are learning how to win. How to win on the road. How to win by playing an entire game. How to win against better teams.

Turned a corner - not quite. But this corner is not a 90 deg corner. It is a curve, a big curve and I think we are about halfway through it. The first half of next year will tell us if we have made it throught the curve or that the curve is larger than we thought.

But we are playing some great football right now.

Thorn
12-18-2008, 06:13 AM
Fact is, the Texans are 7-3 over there last ten games. That's pretty damn good. Just sit back and enjoy some winning football for once!

And it looks like they'll be 9-3 over their last 12 games. Not a whole lot of NFL teams can do that, no matter who's on their schedule.

dalemurphy
12-18-2008, 07:16 AM
Obijuan what ever....what you have to understand at this point of the year it's really a poor spot to judge where you're at. I mean when we caught the Jags with one guard down we lost. when we caught them with four guards down we won. Is that turning the corner ? When you beat a team on account of attrition and not seeing them at their best ? I mean they go into Oakland and okoye gets a couple of sacks and mario gets a couple of sacs....do you jump and down and say you've turned a corner ? Or do you analyze the strength of the Oakland o-line and realize you caught a down unit in a down year and you did what you're supposed to do, beat a bad team . And if they lose ? Get upset on the road...do we read anything into that also ? No...this is the time of the year of attrition. Everyone is hurt. Time to evaluate was two months ago. Only thing we're evaluating now is how deep is our depth.




So, does it speak poorly of Minnesota and Baltimore that they got to play us without Schaub. Perhaps those wins shouldn't count much either and certainly shouldn't make their fans feel good about the game. By the way, Pittsburgh, Tennessee, and Jacksonville should be ashamed of themselves for celebrating wins against a team that was missing its best CB. And, of course the Indy game- the Colts don't win that one if Schaub is in and Rosencopter is parked.

By the way, depth is pretty darn important in the NFL. If you want to win, it better be good!

ObsiWan
12-18-2008, 07:54 AM
Obijuan what ever....what you have to understand at this point of the year it's really a poor spot to judge where you're at. I mean when we caught the Jags with one guard down we lost. when we caught them with four guards down we won. Is that turning the corner ? When you beat a team on account of attrition and not seeing them at their best ? I mean they go into Oakland and okoye gets a couple of sacks and mario gets a couple of sacs....do you jump and down and say you've turned a corner ? Or do you analyze the strength of the Oakland o-line and realize you caught a down unit in a down year and you did what you're supposed to do, beat a bad team . And if they lose ? Get upset on the road...do we read anything into that also ? No...this is the time of the year of attrition. Everyone is hurt. Time to evaluate was two months ago. Only thing we're evaluating now is how deep is our depth.

Look, they got to get better in the back seven....whether that is with corners , a safety or hit another Diles or Addibi guy...I don't know.

They got to find six or seven sacks from anyone not named Mario.

They must improve on the o-line to keep Matty clean. Clean he's accurate and productive. Hit....he gets hurt. He hopped up last week end. I got money says he got hurt. He's playing, but he's playing hurt to slay the dragon. No quarterback wants brittle written across his rice bowl.

walk the walk.

We'll be good when we go into Pittsburgh or New York or Miami or Indy and whip the shit out of someone for an AFC championship on the road. Until then it's all talk. Whether Kubiak is saying it. Or you are.

I'll give you this, you're the first one of the nay-sayers that has absolutely defined your "corner". Its about time somebody did. And to tell the truth, I totally agree with your definition. But for me, that's not the final corner - the final "corner" being winning back-to-back Super Bowls or 5 or 6 playoff wins. I want the Texans to OWN the division like the Colts have owned it since we've been in existence. And we definitely aren't at that point yet nor will we be with this O-line and this defense.

You seemed to question whether or not the F/O will try to improve or stand pat. I don't see that happening. Now they might not do what WE fans think they should do. But we fans have been wrong before (see drafting MW over VY/RB). And the changes/upgrades you mentioned: improve the O-line, get Mario some effective pass rushing help, get some more studs in the back seven, get Steve Slaton some quality relief help so he doesn't have 30 touches/game.

those things have been mentioned by everyone who watches our team. No one can disagree that we need those upgrades.

But there's no doubt we've turned a corner. We're not where we wanna be but we're a helluva lot better than we used to be.

And no, we're not done yet. Not 'till we're holding that Lombardi trophy.
My personal fantasy is that we win Super Bowl XLV in that brand new Texas Stadium with Jerry's kids sitting home watching us on TV because they didn't even make the playoffs.
That's my final corner.

ObsiWan
12-18-2008, 08:05 AM
Oh and no one felt sorry for us last year when we led the league in guys on IR. Ahman, AJ, Schaub, all gone for a time. No one felt sorry for us. The Jags put 37 on us with no AJ and an ineffective, just returning from injury Ahman Green. Should that not count either? So the Jags got some injuries... well welcome to our 2007, Jags. It wasn't fun for us either. At least we didn't quit on our coach last year like the Jags seemed to do this year. I'm convinced that the only reason they beat GB is because GB has folded their tents for the year too.

That's another sign we have turned a corner. Our Texans can't be accused of "mailing it in". No quit in these kids. Not that I've seen.

Silver Oak
12-18-2008, 11:39 AM
My personal fantasy is that we win Super Bowl XLV in that brand new Texas Stadium with Jerry's kids sitting home watching us on TV because they didn't even make the playoffs.
That's my final corner.

Same as mine, but I would hope Cowboys are there for us to beat thm in their bazillion dollar stadium.

I hope Mr. McNair has a similar goal in mind.

Hooston Texan
12-18-2008, 12:36 PM
We'll be good when we go into Pittsburgh or New York or Miami or Indy and whip the shit out of someone for an AFC championship on the road. Until then it's all talk. Whether Kubiak is saying it. Or you are.

Wow. That's a pretty high threshold for "good". Since the merger in 1970, the road team has won a conference championship game a grand total of 26 times (out of 76 games). So, by this metric, of the nearly 1200 squads that have competed in the NFL since 1970, only 26 would qualify as good. If that's good, what could possibly be great?

I don't think anyone here is saying that we can safely plan to buy tickets to the 2010 Super Bowl. What we are saying is that we now, after nearly seven years, have a team that can compete with anyone even on days when (a) we don't play a perfect game and/or (b) the other team doesn't make a ton of silly mistakes. Yes, we still suffer the occasional blowout, but that's true of just about everyone in the league (for examples, see what Cleveland did to the Giants and what the Jets did to the Titans).

We now have a team that, at least in some facets, causes opponents to worry. Our offense is one of the best in the league. When have we ever been able to say we were nearly the best at anything? OK, in 2005, our kickoff return unit was one of the best of all time, but all that success still didn't yield anything more than a disastrous 2-14 record.

This team is improving at an appreciable pace now. You don't need time-lapse photography to see it. Nobody is saying that the work is done, but the progress should be obvious.

ObsiWan
12-18-2008, 12:41 PM
Let me put it simply:
Nobody who sees the Texans on their schedule is thinking "Automatic Win" any more.
That's turning a corner.

Runner
12-18-2008, 02:34 PM
I can't give a specific milestone that flips the switch to "I think the Texans are great". It is more complicated than that. It is about consistency over time. For instance the win over the Titans helps build the case, but it doesn't make them "turn the corner" by itself. If it did and they lost the last two games they'd just have to drive around the block again. Again, I'm looking for quality over time or a huge jump in the record. 8-8 to 9-7 (at best) isn't it.

Asking the wait and see types for an objective and measurable turn-the-corner milestone isn't really fair anyway. Claims that they have already turned the corner are based on the subjective feeling they are a lot better now. However, they are still .500. I'm sure people remember the feeling that they had turned the corner at the end of last year. This could be more of the same, it just feels "right" at the moment.

We'll see. Next year may very well be the year they do get there - they've certainly had enough time.

All of the above is just my opinion because of questions that have been asked. I'm not trying to convince anyone to change their beliefs.

Runner
12-18-2008, 09:57 PM
Sorry. I didn't mean for my omphaloskepsis to kill this thread.

ObsiWan
12-18-2008, 10:15 PM
Sorry. I didn't mean for my omphaloskepsis to kill this thread.

were you thinking about getting a piercing?
:)