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View Full Version : Our red-zone defense: maybe the worst of all time.


Hooston Texan
10-16-2008, 01:10 PM
Just saw a jaw-dropping stat:
Texans' opponents have gotten inside our 20 a total of 16 times so far this season. On 15 of those 16 occasions, they came away with the TD. The only time the opponent didn't score a TD was when Jacksonville kicked a second-down FG in overtime to win the game.

I'm not sure what the all-time record is for poor redzone defense, but the Texans have got to be challenging it 5 games into the season. It is almost impossible to be worse.

For all the talk about our offense's struggles in the redzone, I'm surprised I haven't seen this mentioned before.

Polo
10-16-2008, 01:15 PM
How many times did the opposition start in our red-zone or in positive yardage situations due to turnovers ? Just curious...

Defense definitely has to improve in that area.

El Tejano
10-16-2008, 01:18 PM
And yet another stat to show Mr. Mcnair about our D coordinator. At least our offense has scored TDs a few times in the redzone, the is pretty much making it a gimme for the opp.

TexanSam
10-16-2008, 01:21 PM
Wow...that is a crazy stat. Unbelievable

Hooston Texan
10-16-2008, 01:28 PM
How many times did the opposition start in our red-zone or in positive yardage situations due to turnovers ? Just curious...

Defense definitely has to improve in that area.

In answer to your question going game-by-game:

Pittsburgh's TD drives were: 52 yards, 76, 32, 71 and 80. The 52 yard drive followed the failed fourth-down gamble. The 32 yard drive followed an int.

Tennessee's TD drives: 77, 68, 74. Interestingly, each TD came after a Texans' score.

Jacksonville's TD drives: 59, 76, 62.

Indy's TD drives: 64, 81, 20. Sage's second fumble set up the 20-yard drive.

Miami's TD drives: 55, 80, 73, 73.

So, of those 18 TD drives, only two were "short field" situations where the opponent started on our side of the 50. And only one of those drives started in the redzone, and that one was right on the 20. So you really can blame no one but the defense for this horrific stat.

Polo
10-16-2008, 01:29 PM
In answer to your question going game-by-game:

Pittsburgh's TD drives were: 52 yards, 76, 32, 71 and 80. The 52 yard drive followed the failed fourth-down gamble. The 32 yard drive followed an int.

Tennessee's TD drives: 77, 68, 74. Interestingly, each TD came after a Texans' score.

Jacksonville's TD drives: 59, 76, 62.

Indy's TD drives: 64, 81, 20. Sage's second fumble set up the 20-yard drive.

Miami's TD drives: 55, 80, 73, 73.

So, of those 18 TD drives, only two were "short field" situations where the opponent started on our side of the 50. And only one of those drives started in the redzone, and that one was right on the 20. So you really can blame no one but the defense for this horrific stat.


Yep....Gotta be stingier down there...Gotta be stingier period...

Blake
10-16-2008, 01:33 PM
Remember in the pre-season how people would defend the team saying "You want to keep the defense vanilla so they dont see all our plays." Well it turns out that vanilla is our actual defense.

Allstar
10-16-2008, 01:43 PM
I could be wrong, but I think that we have yet to stop an opponent from getting a first down/TD on fourth down.

CloakNNNdagger
10-16-2008, 01:49 PM
Remember in the pre-season how people would defend the team saying "You want to keep the defense vanilla so they dont see all our plays." Well it turns out that vanilla is our actual defense.


http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:8QM15r2znJfkwM:http://www.unholylaboratory.com/vanilla-ice-cream.jpg

DEFENSE




http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_pZqCyaoXPV4/SOI9HtdY3rI/AAAAAAAAALw/9ORHsD7aGTs/S230/DearGodPlsMakeItStop.jpg

Hooston Texan
10-16-2008, 01:53 PM
In looking at the opponents drives in responding to Polo's question, I came across another weird trend: our defense seems to perform best in quick-change situations.

We've given the ball up on an interception, fumble or downs 15 times this season. Two of those turnovers were returned for TDs, so that's 13 times the D took the field after a turnover of some type. In those 13 possessions, our opponents have managed to score only 5 times. The Steelers cashed in our first two turnovers for TDs, so, following our last 11 turnovers that weren't returned for TDs, our D has only allowed a total of 17 points. That's really pretty good. The point-after-turnover part.

By my count, the Texans' D has forced a three-and-out or better (by better, I mean a turnover before a first down) 16 times this season. Of those 16 possessions, nearly half (7) came after Texans' turnovers.

So playing against the Texan D is like boiling a frog: if you throw them into hot water, they'll manage to jump out. But if you put them in comfortable water and then methodically raise the temperature, dinner is served.

Polo
10-16-2008, 02:02 PM
Just for some perspective:


Team Poss TD FG Scor Pct TD Pct
1. T.B. 11 3 8 1.000 .273
2. N.O. 22 7 11 .818 .318
3. Ind. 15 5 7 .800 .333
4. Car. 12 4 6 .833 .333
5. Ten. 14 5 3 .571 .357
6. N.Y.G. 11 4 7 1.000 .364
7. G.B. 20 8 8 .800 .400
8. S.F. 25 10 10 .800 .400
9. Balt. 10 4 5 .900 .400
10. Pitt. 12 5 6 .917 .417
11. Chi. 19 8 9 .895 .421
12. K.C. 17 8 6 .824 .471
13. S.D. 24 12 6 .750 .500
14. Buff. 14 7 4 .786 .500
15. Den. 22 11 8 .864 .500
16. Sea. 18 9 9 1.000 .500
17. Wash. 14 7 7 1.000 .500
18. Cin. 21 11 9 .952 .524
19. Dall. 21 11 10 1.000 .524
20. Minn. 17 9 4 .765 .529
21. Mia. 17 9 4 .765 .529
22. Phil. 13 7 4 .846 .538
23. Det. 20 11 5 .800 .550
24. Atl. 18 10 3 .722 .556
25. N.Y.J. 23 13 5 .783 .565
26. Ariz. 15 9 4 .867 .600
27. St.L. 18 11 5 .889 .611
28. Clev. 16 10 0 .625 .625
29. N.E. 17 11 4 .882 .647
30. Oak. 20 13 5 .900 .650
31. Jax. 18 13 4 .944 .722
32. Hou. 16 15 1 1.000 .938


We're dead last in Red Zone Defense....Not really shocking since we're pretty close to the bottom in defense period...Jags one spot above us...Guess their coordinator sucks too...93% TD rate is pretty awful tho'...

http://wwwedit.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFL+Statistics/Inside+the+Red+Zone/2008/6redzn.htm?mode=defense

Double Barrel
10-16-2008, 02:13 PM
Ouch. There are stats, and then there are stats. Some reveal some troubling tendencies and breakdowns, like turnover ratios, RZ defensive stats or offensive third down conversion rates.

They have got to improve this one if we want to win many games this season. This is horrific.

HOU-TEX
10-16-2008, 02:19 PM
Just for some perspective:


Team Poss TD FG Scor Pct TD Pct
1. T.B. 11 3 8 1.000 .273
2. N.O. 22 7 11 .818 .318
3. Ind. 15 5 7 .800 .333
4. Car. 12 4 6 .833 .333
5. Ten. 14 5 3 .571 .357
6. N.Y.G. 11 4 7 1.000 .364
7. G.B. 20 8 8 .800 .400
8. S.F. 25 10 10 .800 .400
9. Balt. 10 4 5 .900 .400
10. Pitt. 12 5 6 .917 .417
11. Chi. 19 8 9 .895 .421
12. K.C. 17 8 6 .824 .471
13. S.D. 24 12 6 .750 .500
14. Buff. 14 7 4 .786 .500
15. Den. 22 11 8 .864 .500
16. Sea. 18 9 9 1.000 .500
17. Wash. 14 7 7 1.000 .500
18. Cin. 21 11 9 .952 .524
19. Dall. 21 11 10 1.000 .524
20. Minn. 17 9 4 .765 .529
21. Mia. 17 9 4 .765 .529
22. Phil. 13 7 4 .846 .538
23. Det. 20 11 5 .800 .550
24. Atl. 18 10 3 .722 .556
25. N.Y.J. 23 13 5 .783 .565
26. Ariz. 15 9 4 .867 .600
27. St.L. 18 11 5 .889 .611
28. Clev. 16 10 0 .625 .625
29. N.E. 17 11 4 .882 .647
30. Oak. 20 13 5 .900 .650
31. Jax. 18 13 4 .944 .722
32. Hou. 16 15 1 1.000 .938


We're dead last in Red Zone Defense....Not really shocking since we're pretty close to the bottom in defense period...Jags one spot above us...Guess their coordinator sucks too...93% TD rate is pretty awful tho'...


I know you're trying to be a smart alleck with this comment, but it is his first year with the Jags.

I'm not saying that Williams is the source of their problems, but players might be struggling to adapt. Two rookie DE's surely doesn't help either.

Polo
10-16-2008, 02:36 PM
I know you're trying to be a smart alleck with this comment, but it is his first year with the Jags.

I'm not saying that Williams is the source of their problems, but players might be struggling to adapt. Two rookie DE's surely doesn't help either.

Actually I wasn't trying to be a smart alleck...Just looking at the stats from all angles.....93% TD rate is awful, but if you look at where teams are located on the list it's not really a telling sign of how the defense is doing overall (In our case it indeed might be)....the teams are all over the place...

San Fran is ranked lower than us in defense, but they are in the top ten in Red Zone Defense even though they have allowed their opponents to get in their redzone 25 times with 10 TD's, and 10 FG's..

I know we've had some big plays against us, but if you look at the amount of times teams have gotten into our redzone we don't look as bad...

spurstexanstros
10-16-2008, 02:41 PM
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:8QM15r2znJfkwM:http://www.unholylaboratory.com/vanilla-ice-cream.jpg

DEFENSE




http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_pZqCyaoXPV4/SOI9HtdY3rI/AAAAAAAAALw/9ORHsD7aGTs/S230/DearGodPlsMakeItStop.jpg

Great pic on sundays I am usually praying for them to make stops on third down (fourth down this year)

Hooston Texan
10-16-2008, 03:08 PM
Actually I wasn't trying to be a smart alleck...Just looking at the stats from all angles.....93% TD rate is awful, but if you look at where teams are located on the list it's not really a telling sign of how the defense is doing overall (In our case it indeed might be)....the teams are all over the place...

San Fran is ranked lower than us in defense, but they are in the top ten in Red Zone Defense even though they have allowed their opponents to get in their redzone 25 times with 10 TD's, and 10 FG's..

I know we've had some big plays against us, but if you look at the amount of times teams have gotten into our redzone we don't look as bad...

Your post implies that there is some amount of randomness to this stat, but redzone play is a big part of what teams practice. They need to: the shrunken field changes the way both offenses and defenses can operate. We may be better defending the entire field than the Niners, but that does not mean they cannot be better than us in short-field scenarios.

Still, we are so far beyond the next-worst team that any such comparisons are worthless. It's like a pitching staff that gives up 300 homers when the next-worst staff allowed only 180. Yes, the Jags are bad, but we are beyond godawful.

Our redzone defense is a welcome mat.

Polo
10-16-2008, 03:15 PM
Our redzone defense is a welcome mat.

I agree. Never said it wasn't. My post was about overall defense though. Dont know how you missed it.

Hooston Texan
10-16-2008, 03:23 PM
I agree. Never said it wasn't. My post was about overall defense though. Dont know how you missed it.

The first two paragraphs of my post were in response to yours. The line you quoted was something I wish I had put in my original post, but didn't come up with it until later (alas). So I had to put it somewhere.

gtexan02
10-16-2008, 04:40 PM
Its such a strange stat, because (And I don't know if this is correct or not) I believe we used to be exactly the opposite last year and this preseason. We used to be a "Bend but don't break" type defense that gave up a lot of FGs. Now we are a bend and break defense

texanhead08
10-16-2008, 05:12 PM
We are in the top 5 in yards gained, our red zone execution is why we arent scoring like a top 5 offense. If we get to 75% td's scored in the red zone that will equal 3 extra wins.

b0ng
10-16-2008, 06:47 PM
Sad Trombone (http://www.sadtrombone.com/)

barrett
10-17-2008, 01:31 PM
Its such a strange stat, because (And I don't know if this is correct or not) I believe we used to be exactly the opposite last year and this preseason. We used to be a "Bend but don't break" type defense that gave up a lot of FGs. Now we are a bend and break defense

that is certainly how the defense is supposed to function. bad tackling and breakdown of applied pressure seems to be the killer for us here. even if we're getting decent pressure otherwise we seem to really clam up when they get down there. i don't know how are scheme changes in the red zone but we seem to send OLB on blitzes and we're getting beat outsize or with the blitz getting picked up and the QB has enough time to wait for the one on one coverage to break down. something changes when we get down there. no doubt.

Polo
10-17-2008, 01:36 PM
Team Poss TD FG Scor
Pct TD
Pct
1. Mia. 14 11 1 .857 .786
2. Ind. 14 10 3 .929 .714
3. Ten. 16 11 5 1.000 .688
4. Det. 6 4 2 1.000 .667
5. Pitt. 12 8 3 .917 .667
6. G.B. 14 9 4 .929 .643
7. Ariz. 28 18 4 .786 .643
8. Den. 24 14 6 .833 .583
9. Wash. 21 12 7 .905 .571
10. N.Y.J. 21 12 5 .810 .571
11. Dall. 21 12 4 .762 .571
12. N.O. 22 12 5 .773 .545
13. Buff. 13 7 5 .923 .538
14. K.C. 13 7 3 .769 .538
15. Chi. 20 10 7 .850 .500
16. Hou. 20 10 7 .850 .500
17. Cin. 12 6 4 .833 .500
18. S.D. 23 11 10 .913 .478
19. N.Y.G. 21 10 9 .905 .476
20. S.F. 21 10 9 .905 .476
21. Phil. 26 12 11 .885 .462
22. Clev. 14 6 7 .929 .429
23. Sea. 14 6 6 .857 .429
24. Car. 14 6 5 .786 .429
25. T.B. 24 10 11 .875 .417
26. N.E. 17 7 7 .824 .412
27. Jax. 17 7 5 .706 .412
28. Atl. 20 8 8 .800 .400
29. Balt. 15 6 4 .667 .400
30. Oak. 13 4 8 .923 .308
31. St.L. 5 1 3 .800 .200
32. Minn. 15 3 9 .800 .200


Look at the top teams in redzone scoring in the NFL....

http://wwwedit.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFL+Statistics/Inside+the+Red+Zone/2008/6redzn.htm?mode=offense

See anything interesting about that ?

buddyboy
10-17-2008, 02:46 PM
Look at the top teams in redzone scoring in the NFL....

http://wwwedit.profootballweekly.com/PFW/NFL+Statistics/Inside+the+Red+Zone/2008/6redzn.htm?mode=offense

See anything interesting about that ?

Wow, Detroit only has 6 possesions in the RZ. That's less than half of the other teams in the top 5. Hopefully they drop REALLY far down that list after the game on Sunday
:texflag:

HOU-TEX
10-17-2008, 02:50 PM
Wow, Detroit only has 6 possesions in the RZ. That's less than half of the other teams in the top 5. Hopefully they drop REALLY far down that list after the game on Sunday
:texflag:

Statistically speaking, if the Lions get into the redzone against us, they WILL score. :gun: