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View Full Version : Do you think Kubiak should be "off the hook" because of Sundays win ?


nunusguy
10-14-2008, 07:42 AM
I certainly don't ! We lost 2 weeks ago because in spite of outplaying the
Colts we made fatal mistakes at the end of the game which cost us what should have been a victory, really a rather easy victory. The same thing happened Sunday. We outplayed our opponent again but made more mistakes than he did, but somehow overcame the mistakes that day thanks in large part to the efforts and talent at the end of the game on a single play by a premiere NFL playmaker.
And have you figured out yet what happened in Pittsburg ? You may say get over it, but lets not pass up the opportunity to learn from our mistakes.
Bob McNair are you listeneing ? I dunno, but how does a coach talk all training camp about his team being playoff caliber then have them so underprepared to play a game like that in the season opener ?
These mistakes are on the coach and his staff. That would be one Mr. Kubiak.
And this isn't Kubiaks rookie season as an NFL coach. He is now in his third year as an NFL HC. And prior to being a HC he was the OC in Denver for years & years. Just how steep is the learning curve for Gary ?
This situation reminds me of "The Peter Principle", and makes me wonder if Kubiak wasn't right at the margin in his job with the Broncos ?

Scooter
10-14-2008, 08:00 AM
i dont have kubiak on the hotseat to begin with.

GlassHalfFull
10-14-2008, 08:02 AM
No more than I think he should have been "on the hook" before the game.

That probably doesn't make sense, but let me see if I can explain how I feel about this better. Bear with me, as I am only on my second cup of coffee. Also, I am not attacking the OP on this, the post just hit a sore spot wrong this morning.

It is amazing to me how knee jerk some of us are (as I have my knee jerk reaction to this post). I understand how impatient some have become to make the playoffs and become relevant as a football team, and believe me, I would love to have my team kick butt every Sunday.

Nothing is going to happen with Kubiak's job this season, so we need to give the season a chance to play out before calling for his head or heaping praises on him for a win. Think about what the Giants fans were saying at this point last season. And after last night's stinker, their fans are calling for Eli to be traded or benched for Carr. LOL. Sometimes, I wish posters here would spend a second thinking about what a visiting fan would see when they read our posts before posting.

What I have seen this season is steady improvement. Granted, the Pittsburgh game was a total stinker. But good things happened in the other games and we did what I did not expect us to be able to pull out - a TD drive with under 2 min left in the game. Was it ugly, yes!!! But it worked. So, I for one, plan on being patient and seeing how the season developes as a whole before calling for anyone's head or before canonizing anyone.

maddogmrb
10-14-2008, 08:05 AM
What I have seen this season is steady improvement. Granted, the Pittsburgh game was a total stinker. But good things happened in the other games and we did what I did not expect us to be able to pull out - a TD drive with under 2 min left in the game. Was it ugly, yes!!! But it worked. So, I for one, plan on being patient and seeing how the season developes as a whole before calling for anyone's head or before canonizing anyone.

Well, I agree but this is where we should have been 5 years ago, not today. And it is where we were last year and we should be past this stage by now.

maddogmrb
10-14-2008, 08:06 AM
We outplayed our opponent again but made more mistakes than he did, but somehow overcame the mistakes that day thanks in large part to the efforts and talent at the end of the game on a single play by a premiere NFL playmaker.


I assume you are talking about AJ and not MS?

Malloy
10-14-2008, 08:16 AM
IMO Kubiak is not even close to the hook yet. The way I see it he took over a team in shambles, with so many wrongs that I personally am amazed that we are already, after 2 years, able to be competetive in alot of our games. What Kubiak needs is experience as a HC, and that may take many years. Personally I'll rather have him gain his experience with us than going out to get another coach who 'brings his own system and player preferences'. I believe that consistancy in an organization is of utmost importance, and that 'changing horses' too often will ultimately be detrimental to a team, something that especially European soccer-teams seem oblivious to.

Scooter
10-14-2008, 08:25 AM
from kubiak's signing to sunday we've replaced 19 of our 22 starters. we've had far and away our best drafts of our franchise, hell outside of pitts, AJ, and dunta we've had our ONLY drafts (we're only carrying over 8 players from the previous team). we're currently the 5th ranked offense (wait, that's not possible, we've played three of the top 10 defenses already!). we have two probowlers on defense that top out at 24 years old. we've turned over 90% of the roster in the last 2.3 years, while dumping salaries in the tens of millions. we're at the bottom of the league in penalties. holy crap, if you give that guy 2 more seasons he might build us one heck of a team ... fire the bastard before he gives houston fans hope!!!!

raise hell on the defensive playcalling. ***** about time management. pick out playcalls that were wrong from the get-go (naked boot towards porter - horrid call). kubiak doesnt call slant 84 rosencopter. he doesnt confuse routes to send a crossing pattern of receivers into eachother's laps. he damn sure doesnt run onto the field to block for our rookie. he plays the game and the damndest thing is our young'ns have stepped up because they've been coached extremely well ... it's fluke that the vets are actually the ones who have turned what could be a winning season to this point into an exceptionally slow start (your premiere player fumbling at the 7 yard line?).

if that's your post, see if al davis is interested in buying the texans, we could have a new coach every 3 weeks.

i'm drinking and will take the negative rep, i dont want to be a team that folds every 2 seasons, especially with the progress we've made.

see sig lol

Kaiser Toro
10-14-2008, 08:25 AM
I do not recall any team in the NFL being perfect for 60 minutes this past weekend.

Kubiak is still in development, as his staff. We found a way to win last week against the team that beat both AFC Championship participants in successive weeks.

I would say he is off the hook with another must win game this week.

Texan_Bill
10-14-2008, 08:28 AM
No one should be "off the hook" from Sundays game. From Kubiak to the players to the assistant coaches. It's a step in the right direction, certainly, but enough to secure jobs? No.

Malloy
10-14-2008, 08:38 AM
i'm drinking and will take the negative rep, i dont want to be a team that folds every 2 seasons, especially with the progress we've made.

see sig lol

In Denmark we have a saying that you'll hear the truth from children and drunk people.

Keep it coming! :)

Scooter
10-14-2008, 08:40 AM
edit

nunusguy
10-14-2008, 08:53 AM
I assume you are talking about AJ and not MS?
Absolutely I was referring to AJ.
OK, be honest with yourselfs everyone and ask yourself this question ?
The Texans end up with a record like 3-13 or 4-12 this year. Then you totally block out from your thought-process that Kubiak is a local who also played HS & college ball in the area, but instead is from a different region of the country.
Better yet, pretend that McNair hired Cam Cameron, an assistant at the time with the Chargers, 'back in 2006 and not Kubiak because as I recall he actually interviewed Cameron back then before he offered the job to Kubiak ?
So in that scenario I ask you, would you fire Coach Cameron ?

Tailgate
10-14-2008, 08:55 AM
Are you saying that because of this one win... if he loses 10 in a row its going to save him or something?? See how it doesnt really make sense right now? But this one win does save the long term blue print we are working on for now which is yet to be completed not to mention we have one of the youngest teams in the league. Too much ball to be played.

GlassHalfFull
10-14-2008, 08:57 AM
Absolutely I was referring to AJ.
OK, be honest with yourselfs everyone and ask yourself this question ?
The Texans end up with a record like 3-13 or 4-12 this year. Then you totally block out from your thought-process that Kubiak is a local who also played HS & college ball in the area, but instead is from a different region of the country.
Better yet, pretend that McNair hired Cam Cameron, an assistant at the time with the Chargers, 'back in 2006 and not Kubiak because as I recall he actually interviewed Cameron back then before he offered the job to Kubiak ?
So in that scenario I ask you, would you fire Coach Cameron ?

If we end up with a 3-13 or 4-12 record, I will agree with you that Kubiak's job performance needs to be reviewed.

Now, do the reverse and be honest yourself. If we turn it around and end up 9-7 or 10-6, will you support Kubiak?

I am trying to point out that what ifs are premature at this point.

Malloy
10-14-2008, 08:58 AM
Absolutely I was referring to AJ.
OK, be honest with yourselfs everyone and ask yourself this question ?
The Texans end up with a record like 3-13 or 4-12 this year. Then you totally block out from your thought-process that Kubiak is a local who also played HS & college ball in the area, but instead is from a different region of the country.
Better yet, pretend that McNair hired Cam Cameron, an assistant at the time with the Chargers, 'back in 2006 and not Kubiak because as I recall he actually interviewed Cameron back then before he offered the job to Kubiak ?
So in that scenario I ask you, would you fire Coach Cameron ?

You are presuming that the arguments presented here are based on local support? I'm not from Houston, Texas or even the USA. If we indeed end up with a 3-13 or 4-12 season, then I'll try to analyze the reason for this and state my suggestion for changes at that time. If that involves ruffin' up Kubiak, then that's what will happen.

HoustonFrog
10-14-2008, 09:40 AM
No one should be "off the hook" from Sundays game. From Kubiak to the players to the assistant coaches. It's a step in the right direction, certainly, but enough to secure jobs? No.

I agree. KT said, no one is perfect..agreed...BUT they keep making the same mistakes and turnovers and at some point, if it continues, you have to wonder where the coaching is coming from. In the NFL these days I think you are always on the hot seat.

El Tejano
10-14-2008, 10:11 AM
Personally I'll rather have him gain his experience with us than going out to get another coach who 'brings his own system and player preferences'. I believe that consistancy in an organization is of utmost importance, and that 'changing horses' too often will ultimately be detrimental to a team, something that especially European soccer-teams seem oblivious to.

True. We only need to look at our next opponent to see how that has worked for them.

Second Honeymoon
10-14-2008, 10:26 AM
No one should be "off the hook" from Sundays game. From Kubiak to the players to the assistant coaches. It's a step in the right direction, certainly, but enough to secure jobs? No.

no truer words have been spoken. definitely a step in the right direction amidst much adversity (the early picks, the wilson fumble, the aj fumble, etc.) and that counts for something in my book. its all about winning. winning cures everything. keep winning and competing and everyone keeps their job.

Scooter
10-14-2008, 10:37 AM
what hook? what coach are you going to bring in that will do more in the same direction? who's going to draft better and produce? we have bookends, a runningback, a full receiving core, a loathed but solid pair of quarterbacks, a stud fullback, THE premiere defensive end, the future MLB, a complimentary OLB, depth at every position, and if given time quite possibly the next load of a DT paired with the youngest slasher DT. who do you bring in to build that? who coaches that offense better?

fire kubiak, put him on the hot seat, set the hook. who's on your mind? surely folks arent firing off statements like that without foresight.

WWJD
10-14-2008, 10:39 AM
I don't think he's in danger of being fired.

Next year yea if they do poorly.

Mr teX
10-14-2008, 10:41 AM
i dont have kubiak on the hotseat to begin with.

that's what i was thinking..

Double Barrel
10-14-2008, 10:47 AM
We could just as easy be 3-2 instead of 1-4 if a coin flip had gone our way (Jags) and Rosencopter hadn't launched (Colts).

Nobody is guaranteed a job in the NFL, but we still have a lot of football left to play. I'm hoping that this team continues to play hardnose football and gets back on track. If we can get to .500 by the midway point, this season has a chance at success. The next three teams are beatable. We just have to do it.

Honoring Earl 34
10-14-2008, 10:52 AM
If the Texans would have come out flat with alot of quit in them ... then I think Kubiak would get more attention . They screwed up and fought back which makes me think the team still wants to play for Kubiak .

eriadoc
10-14-2008, 10:56 AM
With Capers, it was easy to see that he wasn't in harmony with his own staff, the players quit on him, and there was no player development.

With Kubiak, all anyone can point to are a few in-game management decisions that honestly wouldn't freakin' matter if the players would just play. Kubiak's offensive gameplan is second to none. I'm as frustrated with his mismanagement of timeouts as much as anyone, but there's no way he deserves to be fired. We have the best offense we've ever had and we have one of the top offenses in the NFL. The only reason we aren't one of the top scoring defenses is because the players, not the coaches, keep giving the ball back to the other team.

Our defensive gameplan is a problem, IMO, but it's hard to sort out exactly how much of one it is because many of our defensive players just aren't good. If the defense finishes in the bottom 1/4 of the league again, and Kubiak sticks with Smith again, then we can start talking firing.

Second Honeymoon
10-14-2008, 10:59 AM
If the Texans would have come out flat with alot of quit in them ... then I think Kubiak would get more attention . They screwed up and fought back which makes me think the team still wants to play for Kubiak .

they did come out flat...again. we were down two possessions before we had done diddly. that is a kubiak staple and par for the course for his teams. come out flat and go down 10-17 points before you even realize the game started. you can't consistently win with that as your team's calling card.

i still think they will only manage 4 or 5 wins and if that is the case, Kubiak and Richard Smith must go. just about any objective NFL fan realizes that Kubiak and Smith are in over their heads. I am sick of getting outcoached on a weekly basis. How many high school plays are going to burn us before we realize that the coaching style is to fault.

i hope kubiak is our coach next year but only if we can achieve at least 7-9. anything less than that is a fail and he deserves to go in that case.

the schedule does get easier but don't be surprised if one or more of those 'easy' teams beats us. after all, their fans are saying the same thing about us.

eriadoc
10-14-2008, 11:03 AM
they did come out flat...again. we were down two possessions before we had done diddly. that is a kubiak staple and par for the course for his teams. come out flat and go down 10-17 points before you even realize the game started. you can't consistently win with that as your team's calling card.

Specifically, what do you think Kubiak is doing or not doing to have his teams come out flat? What do you think he should change?

Personally, I think we have a turnover problem from one position. I see the line doing as well at the beginning of the game as they do at any point in the game. I see AJ, Daniels, Walter, Slaton, etc. all doing as well at the beginning of the game as they do at any point in the game. I really only see one player coming out "flat" and that's Matt Schaub.

Jackie Chiles
10-14-2008, 11:05 AM
If we end up with a 3-13 or 4-12 record, I will agree with you that Kubiak's job performance needs to be reviewed.

Now, do the reverse and be honest yourself. If we turn it around and end up 9-7 or 10-6, will you support Kubiak?

I am trying to point out that what ifs are premature at this point.

I think 9 or 10 wins is asking too much. It would be a hell of a ride but if we can manage 7-8 wins that would be a great finish to the season. Not a great season but we can't go back in time and not start 0-4.

Second Honeymoon
10-14-2008, 11:09 AM
Specifically, what do you think Kubiak is doing or not doing to have his teams come out flat? What do you think he should change?

Personally, I think we have a turnover problem from one position. I see the line doing as well at the beginning of the game as they do at any point in the game. I see AJ, Daniels, Walter, Slaton, etc. all doing as well at the beginning of the game as they do at any point in the game. I really only see one player coming out "flat" and that's Matt Schaub.

both sides of the ball have come out flat consistently. there is nothing kubiak can change. he is who he is. he hasn't done a good job motivating and inspiring our team. he has done a good job making our offense serviceable albeit turnover-prone, but he fails in the head coaching department. his job is to get his team ready to play and he sucks at that, his other job is to throw a flag for replay review and to decide to punt, go for it, or kick field goal. he has definitely had troubles in those departments as well. His other job is to assemble a quality coaching staff around him. The fact that the best Kubiak can do for a DC is Richard Smith is indicting in and of itself.

so what has Kubiak done that makes him a good head coach worth retaining? if he isn't the guy to help us win today, why keep him around? to save money? to save face? what has he done to show you he is worthy.

Malloy
10-14-2008, 11:14 AM
so what has Kubiak done that makes him a good head coach worth retaining?

Continous progress?

Honoring Earl 34
10-14-2008, 11:15 AM
they did come out flat...again. we were down two possessions before we had done diddly. that is a kubiak staple and par for the course for his teams. come out flat and go down 10-17 points before you even realize the game started. you can't consistently win with that as your team's calling card.


I thought that the Texans played decent at first . They screwed up after each turnover IIRC . At 14-3 ... I was expecting them to fold up their tent but they did'nt and Schaub settled in a bit .

If my memory is right Lawrence Taylor made Bill Parcells and not by all the sacks . While Parcells was learning the ropes the Giants were losing and Taylor told his teamates that if they fire Parcells ... the owner is going to bring in a hardass and their not going to like it so they better start winning .

eriadoc
10-14-2008, 11:27 AM
so what has Kubiak done that makes him a good head coach worth retaining? if he isn't the guy to help us win today, why keep him around? to save money? to save face? what has he done to show you he is worthy.

I think you're holding the coach responsible for the players' shortcomings. There are certain aspects that the coach should be responsible for, but the players just failing to execute the game plan is on the players.

To answer your question, though: As head of football operations, Kubiak has drafted well, for starters. He's developed the players well since they've been here. He's turned our offense into one of the best in the NFL - far beyond "serviceable" as you label it - top 5 in the NFL, actually. If you listen to interviews with players, there's no quit in them and they want to play for Kubiak. Since you're concerned about his preparation of the team, how about the fact that we are one the league's least penalized teams? That has always been considered to be directly on the coaching staff, and ours have kept our players' heads on straight.

Defensively, we have issues, specifically Richard Smith's game plan - I agree with you there. But we also have talent deficiencies. What few good players we have on defense were identified and brought in by Kubiak, and to some extent, Rick Smith. It's obvious the defense is a work in progress, but that takes some time. There are plenty of teams that compete with a sub-par defense (NO pops to mind, pre-championship Colts teams, etc.), but take time to build the defense. If the defense finishes this year in the bottom 1/4 again, and Kubiak sticks with Richard Smith again, then yeah, I'm probably calling for his head. But we're not there yet.

Kubiak has made his share of mistakes, but a few in-game mistakes on time-outs and challenges don't outweigh the simple fact that the players are most directly responsible for the losses - specifically one position. If the players were playing their best and it was a tight game and the coach made a stupid decision that cost the game, then we'd be having a different discussion. That hasn't happened yet, because the players' poor play has trumped all.

The one person that deserves to be fired right now more than anyone is the QB (whichever). Unfortunately, that's not realistic.

HoustonFrog
10-14-2008, 11:29 AM
I don't think he should be let go, as I said earlier, but people sure seem to gloss huge, constant mistakes in clock management, penalties, challenges and seemingly getting players to stop making stupid turnovers. Until corrected they all lead to coaching. People say its QB play..well wasn't being a QB guru part of his specialty, thus falling right in his lap?

TexansFight
10-14-2008, 11:31 AM
Kubiak's seat should be extremely hot. He has made boneheaded coaching decisions and has not improved one bit since his first year. His use of challenges is laughable and his clock management skills are nonexistent. What the hell were we trying to do at the end of the first half?

Kubiak has made fatal errors in who he has chosen to QB this team. First, in thinking that the garbage we had in David Carr was a legit starting NFL QB and then overpaying for an extremely erratic Matt Schaub.

We don't seem to make in-game adjustments, our DC is terrible, our coach has a tough time with strategy (witness the confusion on the PAT/2 point conversion at the end of the game), etc. What does Kubiak bring to the table? He is in the bottom 5 of NFL head coaches IMO. Fire him and bring in a proven winner. Cowher or Schottenheimer would be great.

eriadoc
10-14-2008, 11:35 AM
I don't think he should be let go, as I said earlier, but people sure seem to gloss huge, constant mistakes in clock management, penalties, challenges and seemingly getting players to stop making stupid turnovers. Until corrected they all lead to coaching. People say its QB play..well wasn't being a QB guru part of his specialty, thus falling right in his lap?

Sure. He's made every QB that's ever played for him better, to some degree or another. You can't coach away sheer stupidity or competitive spirit, though. Whichever you attribute Rosenfail's fumbles to, that's never going to get coached away by any coach, anywhere. Schaub chucking it into double coverage consistently is starting to look like no coach is ever going to be able to coach that away (but we'll see). In other words, there's only so much player performance you can pin on the coach. Penalties, incorrect routes, misdiagnosed blocking assignments, etc. - all these are things that coaches are responsible for. By way of contrast, Mario missing the tackle on the Brown TD - that's 100% on Mario.

DexmanC
10-14-2008, 11:35 AM
from kubiak's signing to sunday we've replaced 19 of our 22 starters. we've had far and away our best drafts of our franchise, hell outside of pitts, AJ, and dunta we've had our ONLY drafts (we're only carrying over 8 players from the previous team). we're currently the 5th ranked offense (wait, that's not possible, we've played three of the top 10 defenses already!). we have two probowlers on defense that top out at 24 years old. we've turned over 90% of the roster in the last 2.3 years, while dumping salaries in the tens of millions. we're at the bottom of the league in penalties. holy crap, if you give that guy 2 more seasons he might build us one heck of a team ... fire the bastard before he gives houston fans hope!!!

seriously. shut up. raise hell on the defensive playcalling. ***** about time management. pick out playcalls that were wrong from the get-go (naked boot towards porter - horrid call). kubiak doesnt call slant 84 rosencopter. he doesnt confuse routes to send a crossing pattern of receivers into eachother's laps. he damn sure doesnt run onto the field to block for our rookie. he plays the game and the damndest thing is our young'ns have stepped up because they've been coached extremely well ... it's fluke that the vets are actually the ones who have turned what could be a winning season to this point into an exceptionally slow start (your premiere player fumbling at the 7 yard line?).

if that's your post, see if al davis is interested in buying the texans, we could have a new coach every 3 weeks.

i'm drinking and will take the negative rep, i dont want to be a team that folds every 2 seasons, especially with the progress we've made.

see sig lol

Damn, Scooter. This shit sounds too much like right!
:goodpost:

BigBull17
10-14-2008, 11:37 AM
No more than I think he should have been "on the hook" before the game.

That probably doesn't make sense, but let me see if I can explain how I feel about this better. Bear with me, as I am only on my second cup of coffee. Also, I am not attacking the OP on this, the post just hit a sore spot wrong this morning.

It is amazing to me how knee jerk some of us are (as I have my knee jerk reaction to this post). I understand how impatient some have become to make the playoffs and become relevant as a football team, and believe me, I would love to have my team kick butt every Sunday.

Nothing is going to happen with Kubiak's job this season, so we need to give the season a chance to play out before calling for his head or heaping praises on him for a win. Think about what the Giants fans were saying at this point last season. And after last night's stinker, their fans are calling for Eli to be traded or benched for Carr. LOL. Sometimes, I wish posters here would spend a second thinking about what a visiting fan would see when they read our posts before posting.

What I have seen this season is steady improvement. Granted, the Pittsburgh game was a total stinker. But good things happened in the other games and we did what I did not expect us to be able to pull out - a TD drive with under 2 min left in the game. Was it ugly, yes!!! But it worked. So, I for one, plan on being patient and seeing how the season developes as a whole before calling for anyone's head or before canonizing anyone.


What, why would you call Houston fans knee jerk.....

nunusguy
10-14-2008, 11:37 AM
We could just as easy be 3-2 instead of 1-4 if a coin flip had gone our way (Jags) and Rosencopter hadn't launched (Colts).

Or if we had better coaching ?

eriadoc
10-14-2008, 11:39 AM
Or if we had better coaching ?

Point to a coaching call or series of calls that resulted in a loss and then explain how those calls had a greater impact on the loss than plays like Rosencopter. I'm genuinely interested in learning here - not trying to be contentious.

EDIT - I'll get you started. Richard Smith failing to adjust to the Matt Jones slant play in the Jags game. At some point, you have to drop someone into that route to force a run or something. Maybe zone blitz.

hadaad
10-14-2008, 11:41 AM
outside of pitts, AJ, and dunta we've had our ONLY drafts

Not to pick on you and not that I disagree with you but this hits a sore point for me.

Domanick Davis was an amazing steal of a draft pick.

HoustonFrog
10-14-2008, 11:51 AM
Sure. He's made every QB that's ever played for him better, to some degree or another. You can't coach away sheer stupidity or competitive spirit, though. Whichever you attribute Rosenfail's fumbles to, that's never going to get coached away by any coach, anywhere. Schaub chucking it into double coverage consistently is starting to look like no coach is ever going to be able to coach that away (but we'll see). In other words, there's only so much player performance you can pin on the coach. Penalties, incorrect routes, misdiagnosed blocking assignments, etc. - all these are things that coaches are responsible for. By way of contrast, Mario missing the tackle on the Brown TD - that's 100% on Mario.

Oh, I agree, you can't coach talent. My point was that if you are claiming he can come in and coach up guys to be better and to keep their head on playing QB..ala Plummer compared to his days with the Cards...then that will be his calling card. If it doesn't happen people start to wonder. Add it to the penalties, time management, challenges, etc and it makes you think. Now for all of this to come to a head it would have to be a recurring problem. Some od the problems are recurring at this time. You can't overcome them every game. It makes winnable games losing games and that is when the seat gets hot after a season. As you said above, you also weigh the drafts, the improvement in the team as a whole, etc.

GlassHalfFull
10-14-2008, 11:56 AM
I think 9 or 10 wins is asking too much. It would be a hell of a ride but if we can manage 7-8 wins that would be a great finish to the season. Not a great season but we can't go back in time and not start 0-4.

Let's keep this in context. I was responding to this:

Absolutely I was referring to AJ.
OK, be honest with yourselfs everyone and ask yourself this question ?
The Texans end up with a record like 3-13 or 4-12 this year. Then you totally block out from your thought-process that Kubiak is a local who also played HS & college ball in the area, but instead is from a different region of the country.
Better yet, pretend that McNair hired Cam Cameron, an assistant at the time with the Chargers, 'back in 2006 and not Kubiak because as I recall he actually interviewed Cameron back then before he offered the job to Kubiak ?
So in that scenario I ask you, would you fire Coach Cameron ?

If we end up with a 3-13 or 4-12 record, I will agree with you that Kubiak's job performance needs to be reviewed.

Now, do the reverse and be honest yourself. If we turn it around and end up 9-7 or 10-6, will you support Kubiak?

I am trying to point out that what ifs are premature at this point.

And I didn't get a reply from the OP. My contention is that people are posting these threads to pursue an agenda. If you are going to make up mythical 3-13 records and ask me to be honest, you should be willing to look at the flip side of the coin.

Wolf
10-14-2008, 11:59 AM
he is off the hook because I haven't worried about bank loans,deficit, or doing laundry for the last couple of days

:kingkong:


All I can say is I hope he grows as the team grows and I hope the team talent doesn't surpass his coaching talent (if that makes sense)

when he arrived, who was the leaders on this team? AJ on offense and Dunta on defense if I recall that was about it

I don't recall when he came in that we really had the veteran leadership that say capers had on defense when they had Glenn,Sharper,Coleman,Walker, etc on defense

and offense...well nothing


I am not making excuses but I am just saying Kubiak is learning as a coach and so is the team on the on the field.. with Mario and Demeco on the field hopefully their presense will be leadership on the field (and with d-rob and his fire that will help) on defense

offense.AJ is still there and maybe the offense learned something about Shaub this last weekend

The Pencil Neck
10-14-2008, 12:21 PM
EDIT - I'll get you started. Richard Smith failing to adjust to the Matt Jones slant play in the Jags game. At some point, you have to drop someone into that route to force a run or something. Maybe zone blitz.

We were zone blitzing.

The Pencil Neck
10-14-2008, 12:27 PM
I'm not someone who considered Kubiak on the hook.

I don't agree that the team has been coming out flat, only that Schaub started off shaky in the last game. The rest of the team looked good. Even Schaub was looking pretty good except for that one mistake he made with the uncalled shift.

I think the team is vastly improved over any Texan's team that we've had. Including the team last year and the 7-9 year under Capers. Even though we've started 1-4, I don't think we're going to end up with a losing record. It's a possibility that we do but I think we're too good a team. If we do end up with double digit losses, then McNair should consider making a change. But even then, I'd personally be patient and give Kubes another year.

Wolf
10-14-2008, 12:30 PM
Coaches have initiated more challenges at home. They have succeeded in a lower percentage of home challenges. Perhaps they take chances challenging calls at home because they feel more confident about winning those games.

Nolan isn't the only one with a particularly poor challenge record at home. I've got Romeo Crennel with an 0-13 challenge record at home, but 4-6 on the road. Gary Kubiak is 0-6 at home and 4-9 on the road. Jim Haslett is 1-11 at home, 3-6 on the road.

4-15 on challenges ..yikes

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nflnation/0-2-278/Nolan-not-alone-in-losing-home-challenges.html

eriadoc
10-14-2008, 12:32 PM
We were zone blitzing.

And the DL that was dropping was not getting into the passing lane for that slant play, by design, rather than by inability.

Tedc
10-14-2008, 12:36 PM
No. We should have won last week's game by a larger margin.

The jury is still out and the ladies and gentlemen of the jury will only pay attention to this year.

This year he has sucked.

Jackie Chiles
10-14-2008, 12:51 PM
Let's keep this in context. I was responding to this:





And I didn't get a reply from the OP. My contention is that people are posting these threads to pursue an agenda. If you are going to make up mythical 3-13 records and ask me to be honest, you should be willing to look at the flip side of the coin.

I understand but I'm thinking that of the three possible record ranges, 3-4 wins, 7-8 wins, and 9-10 wins the two most likely are 3-4 or 7-8. I do not see us winning 3 games but I think that route is much more likely than pulling off a 9 win season. Basically I'm saying the flip side is 7-8 wins.

Buffi2
10-14-2008, 12:54 PM
Get a grip here folks. Coach's are always on the hot seat - it is the nature of the job...but

Kubiak isn't going anywhere unless we suck this year with no redeeming factors and suck next year also. The two games prior to Miami had redeeming factors even though we lost. The players are getting better. The games are fun to watch (until the end for two of them), they are exciting and there aren't hundreds of egregious calls/draft picks from Kubiak that would warrant him being fired.

Besides that, this season isn't even half way over - we have a long way to go and for all we know we could win every dratted game we have left - stranger things have happened....maybe. This team has always improved as the season progresses - give them a chance before you start changing everything again - which would just put us that much further behind from having to start all over one more time. Jeeze, there are so many new folks on the team, they haven't even had time to jell yet.

Having said that, these kinds of threads could be galvanizing to the team. They certainly have defended their two QBs against fan anger and played harder for Matt after the boos - maybe you guys should keep complaining - the players can just "show you good coaching." Now, that would be a good thing!

NBT
10-14-2008, 12:57 PM
I think Kubiak has fallen into the old crony symbolism with DC Richard Smith. The defense could play so much better than it has, and yet Kubiak refuses to do anything about Richard Smith. Or is Smith only following orders? Whatever - something needs to go on that defense.

nunusguy
10-14-2008, 01:31 PM
Let's keep this in context. I was responding to this:





And I didn't get a reply from the OP. My contention is that people are posting these threads to pursue an agenda. If you are going to make up mythical 3-13 records and ask me to be honest, you should be willing to look at the flip side of the coin.
That's more than fair and my answer is yes. IMO even if Kubiak can get 7 or 8 wins he should remain the Texans coach for the 2009 season.
Finishing at or near 500 is hardly the goal, but not enough for dismissal,
at least at the end of the 2008 season, and he should therefor be given another year to become successful.

Wolf
10-14-2008, 01:44 PM
That's more than fair and my answer is yes. IMO even if Kubiak can get 7 or 8 wins he should remain the Texans coach for the 2009 season.
Finishing at or near 500 is hardly the goal, but not enough for dismissal,
at least at the end of the 2008 season, and he should therefor be given another year to become successful.

I agree and I think it will boil down to if you can beat your AFC south foes.. if you can't beat your division foes, you can't make the playoffs

The Pencil Neck
10-14-2008, 02:07 PM
I agree and I think it will boil down to if you can beat your AFC south foes.. if you can't beat your division foes, you can't make the playoffs

Well, mathematically, that's not really true.

I dislike it when people say that you've got to win your divisional games to make the playoffs because it's not true. Divisional games mean nothing. You can sweep your division and still not make the playoffs. Winning against your division doesn't give you the divisional crown. It's not like conference games in college. You win the division by winning more games than any other team in your division... not by winning more divisional games than any other team in your division.

So, you can sweep your division and still finish 6-10. Or you can get swept in your division and still finish 10-6. Last year, we went 1-5 in our division and 7-3 outside our division and finished 8-8. The year before, we went 3-3 in our division and 3-7 outside our division and finished 6-10. I don't know about anyone else, but I'll take the 8-8 over the 6-10.

I just want a winning record. I want us to win as many divisional games as we can but the divisional games are still just games. If we can go 9-1 outside our division this year, we're going to have a good year regardless of how we do in our division.

Scooter
10-14-2008, 02:28 PM
Not to pick on you and not that I disagree with you but this hits a sore point for me.

Domanick Davis was an amazing steal of a draft pick.

he was and i leave my personal favorite charles spencer out for the same reason - should've been isnt on the field :(.

nunusguy
10-14-2008, 02:34 PM
Point to a coaching call or series of calls that resulted in a loss and then explain how those calls had a greater impact on the loss than plays like Rosencopter. I'm genuinely interested in learning here - not trying to be contentious.

EDIT - I'll get you started. Richard Smith failing to adjust to the Matt Jones slant play in the Jags game. At some point, you have to drop someone into that route to force a run or something. Maybe zone blitz.

I'm not thinking of game-day management so much as other, more important
issues. But on this subject, the failure to request a review of a very critical pass which was clearly incomplete but ruled on the field as complete in the Titans game could have been instrumental in the outcome of that game.
I also just think Kubiak's teams play all too often in a undisiplined manner and without a competant game plan. For example this season, I had the distinct impression that the team was not in regular season mode until game 3.
And I think Kubiak is guilty of too mich favortism with both his coaching staff and his players, to a fault as the saying goes.
And too much of his decisions are short sighed and inflexible. For example, why did he need to immediately convert to a the 4-3 from the 3-4 ? Defense is not even his specialty, his forte. Let your D coordinator do this.
I also supect it was a bad decision to bring in Gibbs, because given his age and history, he'll be gone after '09 or even this season. Then he'll bring in a OL coach who doesn't run ZB and we'll be faced with another transition in that area.
I got more, but I'd say that enough for now.

ObsiWan
10-14-2008, 02:35 PM
With Capers, it was easy to see that he wasn't in harmony with his own staff, the players quit on him, and there was no player development.

With Kubiak, all anyone can point to are a few in-game management decisions that honestly wouldn't freakin' matter if the players would just play. Kubiak's offensive gameplan is second to none. I'm as frustrated with his mismanagement of timeouts as much as anyone, but there's no way he deserves to be fired. We have the best offense we've ever had and we have one of the top offenses in the NFL. The only reason we aren't one of the top scoring defenses is because the players, not the coaches, keep giving the ball back to the other team.

Our defensive gameplan is a problem, IMO, but it's hard to sort out exactly how much of one it is because many of our defensive players just aren't good. If the defense finishes in the bottom 1/4 of the league again, and Kubiak sticks with Smith again, then we can start talking firing.

:goodpost:
couldn't have said it better meself!

ObsiWan
10-14-2008, 02:43 PM
they did come out flat...again. we were down two possessions before we had done diddly. that is a kubiak staple and par for the course for his teams. come out flat and go down 10-17 points before you even realize the game started. you can't consistently win with that as your team's calling card.


talk about revisionist history.
we were moving the ball pretty much at will on those first two possessions and then Schaub tossed INTs.
first possession we drove from our own 24 to the Miami 45 on 3-4 plays then the INT. Second possession we drove from our own 13 to Miami's 48 on 6 plays, then the INT.
How can you call that coming out flat??
:thinking:
Now if we had gone 3-&-out on those possessions, I'd agree with you about being flat.... but that wasn't the case.

Double Barrel
10-14-2008, 02:48 PM
We could just as easy be 3-2 instead of 1-4 if a coin flip had gone our way (Jags) and Rosencopter hadn't launched (Colts).

Or if we had better coaching ?

Or if we had smarter players that know when to slide and know that protecting the freakin' ball is one of the highest priorities?

I'm not a Kubiak homer, but dude doesn't play the game anymore. There comes a certain point where you just have to look at the players for being at fault for making dumb mistakes out there.

Point being, I don't see too many examples in this thread of coaching calls being made that cost us games. But, I can immediately name several PLAYER decisions that directly cost us a win.

ObsiWan
10-14-2008, 02:57 PM
4-15 on challenges ..yikes

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nflnation/0-2-278/Nolan-not-alone-in-losing-home-challenges.html

isn't that a function of the guys up in the booth with access to the replays more than the guy on the sidelines? And if you were head coach, what would you do when your player comes to you saying, "I caught that ball, throw the red flag", support him or ignore him?

Second Honeymoon
10-14-2008, 02:58 PM
Continous progress?

is an 0-4 start continuous progress? is 1-4 considered progress? just askin'

Polo
10-14-2008, 03:02 PM
is an 0-4 start continuous progress? is 1-4 considered progress? just askin'

We started 2-0 last season...

I guess that was the time we should have annointed Kubes...

Mailman
10-14-2008, 03:04 PM
is an 0-4 start continuous progress? is 1-4 considered progress? just askin'

When was the last time an NFL team opened with three consecutive road games against playoff teams? The Pittsburgh game was clustered from the get-go, but the Texans showed nice improvement in the next two and played one of the best games they've ever played against Indy. Yes, that's progress, and that shows that Kubiak is putting his team in position to win football games.

Second Honeymoon
10-14-2008, 03:05 PM
Point to a coaching call or series of calls that resulted in a loss and then explain how those calls had a greater impact on the loss than plays like Rosencopter. I'm genuinely interested in learning here - not trying to be contentious.

EDIT - I'll get you started. Richard Smith failing to adjust to the Matt Jones slant play in the Jags game. At some point, you have to drop someone into that route to force a run or something. Maybe zone blitz.

off the top of my head eriadoc, how about the failure to call a 1st Half timeout with the fake punt v. Jaguars. How about him playing for OT and being too afraid to take a shot or two in the endzone to win the game in regulation against the Jags. How about him calling a pass play when we are up 3 in our end of the field against the Colts.

Basically the Steelers and Titan's losses are just team losses, but the Colts game was Sage and Kubes loss and the Jags loss falls squarely on Kubiak.

ObsiWan
10-14-2008, 03:09 PM
Or if we had smarter players that know when to slide and know that protecting the freakin' ball is one of the highest priorities?

I'm not a Kubiak homer, but dude doesn't play the game anymore. There comes a certain point where you just have to look at the players for being at fault for making dumb mistakes out there.

Point being, I don't see too many examples in this thread of coaching calls being made that cost us games. But, I can immediately name several PLAYER decisions that directly cost us a win.

QFT!!
One shouldn't have to tell an 8-yr veteran QB to slide when he's inside the 35 and we have a kicker who's money from 50 yds or less.

One shouldn't have to tell a 6-yr veteran DB (who has Super Bowl rings, BTW) to protect the ball after an INT with less than 4:00 mins left in the game.

One shouldn't have to tell our 6-yr veteran, all-world WR (and no, that's not sarcasm) to protect the ball on his way to the end-zone.

Swapping head coaches won't prevent the occasional player brain-fart.

having said all that, Kubiak is no more on the hot seat than he was at the beginning of the year. He's expected to get this team ready to play at a playoff level. I think the offense is there now. The defense needs more players (there, Polo. I said it) and a better scheme.

Second Honeymoon
10-14-2008, 03:09 PM
When was the last time an NFL team opened with three consecutive road games against playoff teams? The Pittsburgh game was clustered from the get-go, but the Texans showed nice improvement in the next two and played one of the best games they've ever played against Indy. Yes, that's progress, and that shows that Kubiak is putting his team in position to win football games.

excuses excuses excuses

at some point the team and the fanbase has to stop making excuses and start winning consistently.

dtran04
10-14-2008, 03:11 PM
I'll play Dolphin fan for fun.

Fire Parcells!!!! Fire Sparano!!!! Chad Pennington sucks!!! Ronnie Brown for QB!!!! They lost to the 0-4 Texans? We won the turnover battle and 4-1 and still lost? We never got off the field on one of the worst 3rd down defenses. We couldn't throw the ball down the field against one of the league's shakies secondaries.

We didn't play to win...don't you know prevent defense prevents victory? Why was Kevin Walter wide open? Didn't everyone know the Texans were running a QB draw? OUTCOACHED!!!!!!

:)

HOU-TEX
10-14-2008, 03:13 PM
I'll play Second Honeymoon if he was a Dolphin fan.

Fire Parcells!!!! Fire Sparano!!!! Chad Pennington sucks!!! Ronnie Brown for QB!!!! They lost to the 0-4 Texans? We won the turnover battle and 4-1 and still lost? We never got off the field on one of the worst 3rd down defenses. We couldn't throw the ball down the field against one of the league's shakies secondaries.

We didn't play to win...don't you know prevent defense prevents victory? Why was Kevin Walter wide open? Didn't everyone know the Texans were running a QB draw? OUTCOACHED!!!!!!

:)

LMAO! Fixed it for ya

ObsiWan
10-14-2008, 03:14 PM
I'll play Dolphin fan for fun.

Fire Parcells!!!! Fire Sparano!!!! Chad Pennington sucks!!! Ronnie Brown for QB!!!! They lost to the 0-4 Texans? We won the turnover battle and 4-1 and still lost? We never got off the field on one of the worst 3rd down defenses. We couldn't throw the ball down the field against one of the league's shakies secondaries.

We didn't play to win...don't you know prevent defense prevents victory? Why was Kevin Walter wide open? Didn't everyone know the Texans were running a QB draw? OUTCOACHED!!!!!!

:)

priceless!
:D

Malloy
10-14-2008, 03:14 PM
is an 0-4 start continuous progress? is 1-4 considered progress? just askin'

At least for me, progress is not only about wins but about how the whole team looks.

Its the whole glass half full/empty talk all over again. I see a team that has the level of quality to win every game so far (Pittsburgh did chew us bad), that does not neccesarily equal wins. Of course I want as many wins as possible, but I also would rather have a loss where we look good than a loss where we look bad.

Different perspectives and different expectations I guess ?

Texan_Bill
10-14-2008, 03:15 PM
I'll play Dolphin fan for fun.

Fire Parcells!!!! Fire Sparano!!!! Chad Pennington sucks!!! Ronnie Brown for QB!!!! They lost to the 0-4 Texans? We won the turnover battle and 4-1 and still lost? We never got off the field on one of the worst 3rd down defenses. We couldn't throw the ball down the field against one of the league's shakies secondaries.


:)

But they showed improvement from last year... Last year we beat the phinz by 3. This year by 1. :shades:

Malloy
10-14-2008, 03:19 PM
excuses excuses excuses

at some point the team and the fanbase has to stop making excuses and start winning consistently.

Or, as some would call them, arguments.

You have a problem with other people having different perspectives ?

Mailman
10-14-2008, 03:23 PM
excuses excuses excuses

at some point the team and the fanbase has to stop making excuses and start winning consistently.

I'm not making excuses, I'm describing reasons. The best metric to gauge a team is indisputably overall record, but you also must consider the context if you want to get a clearer picture of where this team stands. It is nowhere near the worst team in the league, yet it has one of the worst records.

I like Kubiak as a head coach, but I think he still has a lot of learning left before we can call him a good or great coach. I believe Kubiak cost his team at least one win with his misuse of the challenge flag in that Tennessee game.

eriadoc
10-14-2008, 03:29 PM
off the top of my head eriadoc, how about the failure to call a 1st Half timeout with the fake punt v. Jaguars. How about him playing for OT and being too afraid to take a shot or two in the endzone to win the game in regulation against the Jags. How about him calling a pass play when we are up 3 in our end of the field against the Colts.

Basically the Steelers and Titan's losses are just team losses, but the Colts game was Sage and Kubes loss and the Jags loss falls squarely on Kubiak.

I'm OK with pinning the Jags loss on Kubiak. It's worth mentioning that players ought to be able to overcome a first quarter fake punt TD, though. It's also worth mentioning that 11 players on defense could have called timeout as well. However, I'm OK with you pinning that on Kubiak. So that's 1 for Kubes and several on the players.

Sorry, the Colts game was 110% on Rosenfail. Kubiak called a perfect game, and the only thing he did to imperil the win was trust Rosencopter.

I still don't see enough here to fire Kubiak. I'm good with firing Sage, Schaub, or Richard Smith, but none of those can reasonably happen anytime soon.

Double Barrel
10-14-2008, 03:35 PM
I'm OK with pinning the Jags loss on Kubiak. It's worth mentioning that players ought to be able to overcome a first quarter fake punt TD, though. It's also worth mentioning that 11 players on defense could have called timeout as well. However, I'm OK with you pinning that on Kubiak. So that's 1 for Kubes and several on the players.


I think taking the Jags to OT was definitely overcoming that fake punt. Our D couldn't force a punt or turnover in the 2nd half (and neither could the Jags' D). That game was matter of who had the ball last, and they won the toss.

eriadoc
10-14-2008, 03:36 PM
I think taking the Jags to OT was definitely overcoming that fake punt. Our D couldn't force a punt or turnover in the 2nd half (and neither could the Jags' D). That game was matter of who had the ball last, and they won the toss.

I actually agree with you, but for the sake of 2H's argument ... hey, whatever.

Tedc
10-14-2008, 03:45 PM
We have to remember with the Jags fake punt, there was no punter on the field!!!

How does ANY competent coach miss that?

bigbrewster2000
10-14-2008, 03:48 PM
We have to remember with the Jags fake punt, there was no punter on the field!!!

How does ANY competent coach miss that?

How does any competent player? Aparently we had 11 incompetent players on the field on that play. 1 coach

BTW someone should have called the TO

Tedc
10-14-2008, 03:49 PM
How any competent player. Aparently we had 11 incompetent players on the field on that play. 1 coach

BTW someone should have called the TO

True, but the coach calls the play based on what he sees on the field. It all goes downhill but it begins at the top.

Tedc
10-14-2008, 03:50 PM
True, but the coach calls the play based on what he sees on the field. It all goes downhill but it begins at the top.

Besides, it is the coach that gets paid for it. The players played the called play.

ObsiWan
10-14-2008, 03:50 PM
I'm OK with pinning the Jags loss on Kubiak. It's worth mentioning that players ought to be able to overcome a first quarter fake punt TD, though. It's also worth mentioning that 11 players on defense could have called timeout as well. However, I'm OK with you pinning that on Kubiak. So that's 1 for Kubes and several on the players.

Sorry, the Colts game was 110% on Rosenfail. Kubiak called a perfect game, and the only thing he did to imperil the win was trust Rosencopter.

I still don't see enough here to fire Kubiak. I'm good with firing Sage, Schaub, or Richard Smith, but none of those can reasonably happen anytime soon.

I agree. And I still say the Colts loss is completely and totally on Sage. All numbskull had to do was slide. Even if we don't get the first, the Colts must use their last timeout. Or even better, we kick a field goal and go back up by 13.

Thanks to Ike, I didn't get to watch the Jags game. Looking at the game recap and play-by-play we moved the ball pretty well against a good defense. And at the end of the day, the fake punt and all the other trickeration was overcome since we were able to come back and force O/T.
Why no credit towards Kubiak for that?

Polo
10-14-2008, 04:03 PM
Besides, it is the coach that gets paid for it. The players played the called play.

Yeah, Marciano should have said something...

What was he thinking ?

Mailman
10-14-2008, 04:04 PM
While I agree that the team's maddening habit of turning the ball over *may* suggest a failure of leadership and discipline at the top, I also believe some of turnovers are a result of individual players just trying to do too much in situations that demand less effort and more awareness.

On the other hand, the Texans are the most disciplined team (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/sortableStatsTeam?div=NFL&stype=offense&stable=downs&stat=penTot&dir=ascending) in the NFL in penalties and penalty yardage, which suggests Kubiak is pushing some of the right buttons.

Gary Kubiak, like his team, is still a work in progress.

Texan_Bill
10-14-2008, 04:06 PM
Besides, it is the coach that gets paid for it. The players played the called play.

You're starting to scare me whenever you start quoting yourself.

threetoedpete
10-14-2008, 04:58 PM
duplicate post.

The Pencil Neck
10-14-2008, 05:01 PM
excuses excuses excuses

at some point the team and the fanbase has to stop making excuses and start winning consistently.

The fanbase doesn't have anything to do with anything.

The team isn't making excuses. They're not talking to us except to try as much as possible not to let any real information get to the other teams in the league.

We, the fans, make excuses and look for silver linings because we're fans and we want to find something to give us hope for the future. We have no control over anything. We're looking for reasons and trying to understand what's going on but frankly, we don't know the calls and we don't know the plays and we don't know anything about anything and we're just trying to understand. So our "excuses" aren't excuses at all because for us to be able to excuse someone implies the power to NOT excuse someone and we don't have that.

It looks to me like you're just trying to fool yourself into thinking that you've got some sort of control over whether the team wins or not. It just seems to me like you're trying to will this team into being a winner (and that's OK) and you think that if more of us got pissed off like it would have some sort of impact. It won't.

I don't think and I realize that this is just my opinion but I don't think this team and the coaches and the owner and the players are anywhere near as bad as you want to believe. Your animosity toward the team reminds me of your initial reaction to the Duane Brown pick. And I believe that you're over-reacting.

Are we 1-4? Yes. We are. Is that good? No, it's not. Were we 1-4 over any stretch last season? Yes, we were. Could we end up with a better record than last year? Yes, we could. We could also end up worse. But at this point, it's just too early to freak out. IMO.

Malloy
10-14-2008, 05:07 PM
On the fake punt a couple of weeks back: Did'nt Kubiak say that they saw that they were not going to punt, and that they thought that the D-play would be able to handle the it? I seem to remember hearing something like that.. I wern't THAT drunk :)

threetoedpete
10-14-2008, 05:07 PM
QFT!!
One shouldn't have to tell an 8-yr veteran QB to slide when he's inside the 35 and we have a kicker who's money from 50 yds or less.

One shouldn't have to tell a 6-yr veteran DB (who has Super Bowl rings, BTW) to protect the ball after an INT with less than 4:00 mins left in the game.

One shouldn't have to tell our 6-yr veteran, all-world WR (and no, that's not sarcasm) to protect the ball on his way to the end-zone.

Swapping head coaches won't prevent the occasional player brain-fart.

having said all that, Kubiak is no more on the hot seat than he was at the beginning of the year. He's expected to get this team ready to play at a playoff level. I think the offense is there now. The defense needs more players (there, Polo. I said it) and a better scheme.

Nice post. Always cheaper to clear out the coaches however. Kubes is at thirty seven games. Three more games and he'd of reached two thirds the way on the five year deal. If you believe the owner...he's staying the course. On the one hand you want the guys to be aggressive. On the other hand, stupid is stupid. Part of the reason these players are on this roster is the fact that they supposedly have a brain. I can find grace for a young guy just finding his NFL legs. But some of these guys have no excuse what so ever. I don't know what the answer is....whether it's fines , sprints after Tuesdays practice, walking around all week with a football in your arms. It's got to be fixed. They have to play smarter. That is on Kubiak.

One of the things I'm furious about is a guy having a week to get his body ready....knowing it's going to be hot and humid with the roof open, and getting cramps late in the game. There is no excuse for that. None. Pro player has had all week to hydrate and get his PT in...that's just inexcusable. The coaches shouldn't have to bang this guy or any guy to get ready. He's a pro. He should know how to get ready.

-13 on the season in take aways is it ? Someone has to crack the whip. Talking is good to a point. Time for players to have a come to Jesus moment. Time for this HC & GM to define just what unacceptable means. So far, they ain't getting it. One thing to get out played. Quite another to lose for stupid. No more talking. No more excuses.

HJam72
10-14-2008, 05:13 PM
On the fake punt a couple of weeks back: Did'nt Kubiak say that they saw that they were not going to punt, and that they thought that the D-play would be able to handle the it? I seem to remember hearing something like that.. I wern't THAT drunk :)

Yes, Kubiak said that. Obviously, he was wrong and should've called the time-out. Whether or not a punt return team SHOULD be able to stop a full on offense, I don't really know, but they certainly failed at it.

ObsiWan
10-14-2008, 05:16 PM
The fanbase doesn't have anything to do with anything.

The team isn't making excuses. They're not talking to us except to try as much as possible not to let any real information get to the other teams in the league.

We, the fans, make excuses and look for silver linings because we're fans and we want to find something to give us hope for the future. We have no control over anything. We're looking for reasons and trying to understand what's going on but frankly, we don't know the calls and we don't know the plays and we don't know anything about anything and we're just trying to understand. So our "excuses" aren't excuses at all because for us to be able to excuse someone implies the power to NOT excuse someone and we don't have that.

It looks to me like you're just trying to fool yourself into thinking that you've got some sort of control over whether the team wins or not. It just seems to me like you're trying to will this team into being a winner (and that's OK) and you think that if more of us got pissed off like it would have some sort of impact. It won't.

I don't think and I realize that this is just my opinion but I don't think this team and the coaches and the owner and the players are anywhere near as bad as you want to believe. Your animosity toward the team reminds me of your initial reaction to the Duane Brown pick. And I believe that you're over-reacting.

Are we 1-4? Yes. We are. Is that good? No, it's not. Were we 1-4 over any stretch last season? Yes, we were. Could we end up with a better record than last year? Yes, we could. We could also end up worse. But at this point, it's just too early to freak out. IMO.

Now see here my good fellow. You've been warned before about your annoying tendency to bring sound reason and common sense into our perfectly illogical arguments. Its our Constitutional right as Americans to have emotion-based, hype-fed, knee-jerk, agenda-filled message board threads. My god man, if everyone was as level-headed as you, what would we post and counter-post about??
:D

Malloy
10-14-2008, 05:16 PM
Yes, Kubiak said that. Obviously, he was wrong and should've called the time-out. Whether or not a punt return team SHOULD be able to stop a full on offense, I don't really know, but they certainly failed at it.

Agreed, hindsight and all a timeout would have been peachy, but at least we can put the whole 'Were all players and coaches asleep (fire x and y)'-talk to an end.

Malloy
10-14-2008, 05:17 PM
Now see here my good fellow. You've been warned before about your annoying tendency to bring sound reason and common sense into our perfectly illogical arguments. Its our Constitutional right as Americans to have emotion-based, hype-fed, knee-jerk, agenda-filled message board threads. My god man, if everyone was as level-headed as you, what would we post and counter-post about??
:D

Personally I think Pencil Neck should get banned, you know.. teach him a lesson and such ;)

threetoedpete
10-14-2008, 05:18 PM
duplicat

Double Barrel
10-14-2008, 05:20 PM
On the fake punt a couple of weeks back: Did'nt Kubiak say that they saw that they were not going to punt, and that they thought that the D-play would be able to handle the it? I seem to remember hearing something like that.. I wern't THAT drunk :)

I thought a couple of players could have made the play but blew the tackles.

Obviously, Kubiak isn't teaching them how to tackle properly, too. ;)

b0ng
10-14-2008, 05:47 PM
There's too much improvement going on with how this regime started to where it is now. No Kubiak is not on the hotseat this season, and he probably won't ever be this season. Saying that "well, I only see 4 or 5 more wins this season, so Kubiak should be fired" is pretty much the mirror image of "Here comes a 10 game hotstreak to get us into the playoffs then the superbowl. Promote Kubiak to Jesus now". Both sound ridiculous, and both are made off of presumptions of things that have not happened yet.

There's too much football left to be played this season, and furthermore, just because there hasn't been a 180 degree turnaround in just a few short seasons does not mean that everybody needs to be fired and the project should blow up. I think lots of "fans" are going to be howling if Bob McNair decides to retain Kubiak and his staff at the end of the season no matter what the record is, so why should I pay attention to this now? I'll just be seeing it again at the end of this season, and probably every week in between now and then.

So yeah with that, I should just leave this thread, and go back to reading about how awesome of a play Matt Schaub executed, or how dreamy Mario Williams is. You guys can do all the politicking from here on out :barf:

utahmark
10-14-2008, 07:31 PM
Absolutely I was referring to AJ.
OK, be honest with yourselfs everyone and ask yourself this question ?
The Texans end up with a record like 3-13 or 4-12 this year. Then you totally block out from your thought-process that Kubiak is a local who also played HS & college ball in the area, but instead is from a different region of the country.
Better yet, pretend that McNair hired Cam Cameron, an assistant at the time with the Chargers, 'back in 2006 and not Kubiak because as I recall he actually interviewed Cameron back then before he offered the job to Kubiak ?
So in that scenario I ask you, would you fire Coach Cameron ?

what if wade phillips or jack del rio or norv turner loses the rest of their games this year. you gonna fire them? who knows or cares at this point. wait and see what happens. and we are gonna win more than 3 or 4 games anyway.

utahmark
10-14-2008, 07:44 PM
if been reading through this and its almost funny. you got a couple people that think kubes needs to go this is basically their argument.
he threw the red flag at the wrong time.
he called a timeout at the wrong time.
what has he done to help this team?

then you get guys posting 3 and 4 paragraphs of all the good things kubes has done for this team.

next comes another, what has kubes done to help the team? unbelievable.

you know there were quit a few posters on the titians board wanting jeff fisher's job not long ago.

ObsiWan
10-14-2008, 08:10 PM
if been reading through this and its almost funny. you got a couple people that think kubes needs to go this is basically their argument.
he threw the red flag at the wrong time.
he called a timeout at the wrong time.
what has he done to help this team?

then you get guys posting 3 and 4 paragraphs of all the good things kubes has done for this team.

next comes another, what has kubes done to help the team? unbelievable.

you know there were quit a few posters on the titians board wanting jeff fisher's job not long ago.

I refuse to take the "fire Kubiak" posters seriously because none (that I've noticed) have named any potential replacements and explained, in any detail, why their "nominee" would be a better fit. Until they start doing that, I figure they're just letting off steam because we lost or didn't win by a big enough margin.

Mailman
10-14-2008, 08:20 PM
On the one hand you want the guys to be aggressive. On the other hand, stupid is stupid. Part of the reason these players are on this roster is the fact that they supposedly have a brain. I can find grace for a young guy just finding his NFL legs. But some of these guys have no excuse what so ever. I don't know what the answer is....whether it's fines , sprints after Tuesdays practice, walking around all week with a football in your arms. It's got to be fixed. They have to play smarter. That is on Kubiak.



Kinda like Owen Daniels's fumbling problem last year? Hey, whether credit goes to OD himself or Kubiak or Anna Megan Raley's large left breast, someone got through to him and drilled into his muscle memory the importance of protecting the football <knocks on wood>.

I submit that this team plays smart most of the time or else they would have more penalties. Anyone who remembers the Jerry Glanville-era Oilers should applaud Kubiak for the job he's done in that department. The Texans shoot themselves in the foot at the worst time with mind-blowing turnovers, but I think those mistakes are easier to correct than an undisciplined team that commits numerous penalties throughout a game.

Runner
10-14-2008, 08:55 PM
I refuse to take the "fire Kubiak" posters seriously because none (that I've noticed) have named any potential replacements and explained, in any detail, why their "nominee" would be a better fit. Until they start doing that, I figure they're just letting off steam because we lost or didn't win by a big enough margin.

I put the "fire Kubiak" and "trust in Kubes" people in the same category. The problem is that everyone is getting so excited showing Fire Kubiak is more stupid than Saint Kubiak and vice versa, that discussing the issues around Kubiak's coaching strengths and weaknesses is impossible.

Kubiak has some strengths that the Fire Kubiakers don't like to admit. Yes he's shown real progress with the team. Talent has gotten better on offense for sure. There have been two years of improvements in the team's record. The team has leadership now.

Kubiak has real weaknesses that the Saint Kubiaks pooh-pooh away. It isn't the coach, it's the players! You can't fire a guy because he can't manage a game, etc. The truth is the coach effects play on the field, or there wouldn't be any coaches. 1-4 isn't "progress" in a league that rewards winning more than style points and excuses in losses.

========================================
========================================

Segue to fumbles.

As far as all the execution problems being entirely the players' fault, I don't buy that.

For instance, if the fumbling problem is all on the players, I would expect Kubiak and his staff to do nothing to address the problem, because nothing they do will change what the players do on the field. Teaching proper ball carrying technique or more game awareness would just be wasted time.

However, if teaching better technique can reduce fumbling, or if teaching game awareness can make for fewer bone headed plays, then the question can be asked: why haven't they addressed these problems yet? Didn't they recognize the importance of such things; didn't they recognize the problems; aren't the players capable of absorbing new knowledge and improving; or ...?

Htownsportsfan
10-14-2008, 09:47 PM
For those on this board who have ever stood at a craps table for hours on end you know, luck aint no lady she's a *****! Sometimes things just go wrong(maybe not luck) and its tough to break that trend. In football when you play tight and press they seem to ge worse instead of better. Sage trying to do to much when he already has won the game for us. AJ trying to cross the goal line and the ball getting knocked out! Wilson making a great Int. but trying to get a return and fumbling!

Last weeks game damned near killed me but I think winning like that is a great way to go from feeling everything is breaking against you to feeling things a breaking your way.

We damn sure need to prepare for the best the Lions have even if it does not appear like much now cause with 1 win they have us circled as their can the have things start breaking their way.

The Pencil Neck
10-14-2008, 10:26 PM
I put the "fire Kubiak" and "trust in Kubes" people in the same category. The problem is that everyone is getting so excited showing Fire Kubiak is more stupid than Saint Kubiak and vice versa, that discussing the issues around Kubiak's coaching strengths and weaknesses is impossible.

Kubiak has some strengths that the Fire Kubiakers don't like to admit. Yes he's shown real progress with the team. Talent has gotten better on offense for sure. There have been two years of improvements in the team's record. The team has leadership now.

Kubiak has real weaknesses that the Saint Kubiaks pooh-pooh away. It isn't the coach, it's the players! You can't fire a guy because he can't manage a game, etc. The truth is the coach effects play on the field, or there wouldn't be any coaches. 1-4 isn't "progress" in a league that rewards winning more than style points and excuses in losses.

========================================
========================================

Segue to fumbles.

As far as all the execution problems being entirely the players' fault, I don't buy that.

For instance, if the fumbling problem is all on the players, I would expect Kubiak and his staff to do nothing to address the problem, because nothing they do will change what the players do on the field. Teaching proper ball carrying technique or more game awareness would just be wasted time.

However, if teaching better technique can reduce fumbling, or if teaching game awareness can make for fewer bone headed plays, then the question can be asked: why haven't they addressed these problems yet? Didn't they recognize the importance of such things; didn't they recognize the problems; aren't the players capable of absorbing new knowledge and improving; or ...?

I guess I'm in the Saint Kubiak group but I think term that grossly overstates the case. But this is an MB so... I guess the hyperbole is OK. :)

Anyway, even though I'm in the Saint Kubiak group, don't think for an instant that I don't see Kubiak's warts. He's not perfect by any stretch of the imagination.

He's got the same problem with clock management that another Offensive Guru turned Head Coach had and it's surprising that either would have a problem. And that coach is Mike Martz. When he was with the Rams, he did the most bizarre things at the ends of halves and he never seemed to know when to go for 3 or when to go for the first down. I think Kubiak is better than Martz is but Kubiak still has the same basic problem.

Kubiak has an issue with the 2 minute drill at the end of the first half. He's great with playcalling at the end of the game but at the end of the half, he runs too much and doesn't go downfield which this team is built to do.

He (or his coaching staff) is crap at knowing when to challenge and when not to challenge.

He's extremely loyal to coaches that he probably shouldn't be loyal to. But we'll have to wait and see on that.

But I don't think these issues even come close to having the same weight as all the good things he's done for this team. And I can't see how you could say that this team hasn't improved immensely since he's been here. If Bud Adams could have patience with Jeff Fisher, then I can't see why we wouldn't have patience with Gary Kubiak.

On the fumbling thing, I mentioned this the other day but take a look at Jacoby's TD. You can see the coaching that went into him to get him to hold on to the football on that TD. He's holding the ball high and tight for most of the run... but then occasionally for a few steps it starts to drift down into the danger area and then he realizes it's drifting and he brings it back up again. You can see the coaching on that play but you also see the player almost not getting it.

Our real problem with turnovers, of course, is interceptions. And as it showed in that Outsiders article that TC posted earlier, Schaub's problems appear to be with the short throws. And that's very interesting because those are exactly the throws he needs to make in the Red Zone... and has problems with. Hopefully one of Kubiak's minions who are scouring the web for nuggets of insight from us will see that article and make the connection and Schaub will be working on his short throws.

Double Barrel
10-14-2008, 11:06 PM
Well said, Pencil Neck. I'd rep you if the system would let me.

I understand people's frustrations with this franchise, but I still see a lot of fight in the dog. After the Rosencopter meltdown, I figured this team would go two ways. It would either destroy their moral and this season goes down in flames, or, they fight through their own self-inflicted wounds and never give up. Sunday proved that this team has the will to never give up. So I can't give up on them at this point in a season with 11 games left to go. Firing the head coach is quiting on this team and wanting to start over from scratch.

Runner
10-14-2008, 11:39 PM
Well said, Pencil Neck. I'd rep you if the system would let me.

I understand people's frustrations with this franchise, but I still see a lot of fight in the dog. After the Rosencopter meltdown, I figured this team would go two ways. It would either destroy their moral and this season goes down in flames, or, they fight through their own self-inflicted wounds and never give up. Sunday proved that this team has the will to never give up. So I can't give up on them at this point in a season with 11 games left to go. Firing the head coach is quiting on this team and wanting to start over from scratch.

Interesting dichotomy here. First we have Rosencopter, who most fans have now given up on because he went all out to win in a mistaken effort to do more than he had to. Did he make mistakes that cost a game? Yes!

Then we have loyalty to the head coach, who has made several less glaring mistakes that have a cumulative effect of helping to lose more games than Rosenfels did. Bad clock management (including specific play calling), not calling the time out on the fake punt because he thought the five defensive "lineman" could stuff the fullback and his seven blockers, preparing the team to play, etc. Has he been part of all four losses? Yes!

With great power comes great responsibility (Spider-Man). Kubiak has formed this team into what it is. Does he deserve firing? No! Not now. However, 1-4 is as much his responsibility as anyone else. He's helped pick the players, train them, prepare them for games. If they aren't good enough to compete against the decent teams in the league, he bears a lot of the fault.

Belittle the back-up QB, praise the coach.



Note: Not directed at you DB. It is the perception I get of a large part of the board, and I knew you could take it if I used your post as a jumping off point for my rant.

ObsiWan
10-15-2008, 03:34 AM
soooo... bottom line. Kubiak & co. are always on the hook to produce a winner. But they aren't quite on the hot seat..??

HJam72
10-15-2008, 03:43 AM
The backup QB didn't play last Sunday. He is a hero again. :)

Actually, I think the real reason is just that Rosencopter's (which will stick just because it's fun to say) mistakes were all in one part of one game, right when a meltdown was insurmountable. He got more anger in a shorter period of time. In short, I forgive the prick. :) I'm working on my forgiveness skills.

Malloy
10-15-2008, 03:48 AM
soooo... bottom line. Kubiak & co. are always on the hook to produce a winner. But they aren't quite on the hot seat..??

Yes.

Also, Spider-man quotes are hard to criticize!

utahmark
10-15-2008, 12:33 PM
so whats wrong with his clock managment anyway. i havent noticed anything lately. couple of bad chalanges early in the year. :kingkong:

infantrycak
10-15-2008, 01:18 PM
couple of bad chalanges early in the year. :kingkong:

Lot's of folks commenting about challenges. If there is a failure there it is in not relieving the guy doing the reviewing. Kubiak is largely driving blind on challenges during the game.

The Pencil Neck
10-15-2008, 03:31 PM
so whats wrong with his clock managment anyway. i havent noticed anything lately. couple of bad chalanges early in the year. :kingkong:

If you've got the ball with a minute to go in the half, you don't run out the clock. If you're in that 2-minute drill type of situation, you don't run 25%* of the time (which he only does at the end of the first half, thankfully).

EDIT: Also, if you're going to kick at the end of a half, you run the clock down to 3 seconds. That way, there's no more time on the clock for the other team to get the ball. Several time, we've called timeouts in that situation at about 9-12 seconds which leaves time still on the clock and forces us to kick off after scoring. That kickoff is always dangerous.


* This stat is not a "real" stat. It's just hyperbole for discussion's sake. We probably run even MORE than that in that situation.

utahmark
10-15-2008, 04:25 PM
If you've got the ball with a minute to go in the half, you don't run out the clock. If you're in that 2-minute drill type of situation, you don't run 25%* of the time (which he only does at the end of the first half, thankfully).

EDIT: Also, if you're going to kick at the end of a half, you run the clock down to 3 seconds. That way, there's no more time on the clock for the other team to get the ball. Several time, we've called timeouts in that situation at about 9-12 seconds which leaves time still on the clock and forces us to kick off after scoring. That kickoff is always dangerous.


* This stat is not a "real" stat. It's just hyperbole for discussion's sake. We probably run even MORE than that in that situation.

and he needs to be fired because of this? your first point is opinion, you get 10 coaches in the same situation 5 would run out the clock and 5 wouldnt. also you call your timeout with 10 sec to go incase there is a fumble or something like that you get to try again if there is time left on the clock.

you guys are complaining about nothing. the big things like the fact that our team is getting better is what you should be looking at.

Runner
10-15-2008, 04:37 PM
and he needs to be fired because of this? your first point is opinion, you get 10 coaches in the same situation 5 would run out the clock and 5 wouldnt. also you call your timeout with 10 sec to go incase there is a fumble or something like that you get to try again if there is time left on the clock.

you guys are complaining about nothing. the big things like the fact that our team is getting better is what you should be looking at.

Some people are trying to have a discussion about the strengths and weaknesses of Kubiak's coaching while avoiding the "fire him" and the "he's perfect" crowds. Apparently that is impossible. You're the one that added firing to this part of the discussion.

People need to cool their jets rather than try to be offended.

Texecutioner
10-15-2008, 04:46 PM
Some people are trying to have a discussion about the strengths and weaknesses of Kubiak's coaching while avoiding the "fire him" and the "he's perfect" crowds. Apparently that is impossible. You're the one that added firing to this part of the discussion.

People need to cool their jets rather than try to be offended.

Completely agreed. You have made some very valid points from where I stand. The Texans are improving in some areas while they are not in others. Over all they are still struggling to find an identity. Some people in here would give Kubiak 6 or 7 years before they would seriously consider the fact that he might not be a great head coach.

CloakNNNdagger
10-15-2008, 05:23 PM
How do you expect me to make the right calls under these conditions? Why don't YOU try making them when YOUR ass is on fire!:heat:
http://www.property-casualty.com/HotSeat.JPG

ObsiWan
10-15-2008, 07:39 PM
How do you expect me to make the right calls under these conditions? Why don't YOU try making them when YOUR ass is on fire!:heat:
http://www.property-casualty.com/HotSeat.JPG

LMAO!
Where did you find this?!

GNTLEWOLF
10-15-2008, 10:25 PM
I put the "fire Kubiak" and "trust in Kubes" people in the same category. The problem is that everyone is getting so excited showing Fire Kubiak is more stupid than Saint Kubiak and vice versa, that discussing the issues around Kubiak's coaching strengths and weaknesses is impossible.

Kubiak has some strengths that the Fire Kubiakers don't like to admit. Yes he's shown real progress with the team. Talent has gotten better on offense for sure. There have been two years of improvements in the team's record. The team has leadership now.

Kubiak has real weaknesses that the Saint Kubiaks pooh-pooh away. It isn't the coach, it's the players! You can't fire a guy because he can't manage a game, etc. The truth is the coach effects play on the field, or there wouldn't be any coaches. 1-4 isn't "progress" in a league that rewards winning more than style points and excuses in losses.

========================================
========================================

Segue to fumbles.

As far as all the execution problems being entirely the players' fault, I don't buy that.
For instance, if the fumbling problem is all on the players, I would expect Kubiak and his staff to do nothing to address the problem, because nothing they do will change what the players do on the field. Teaching proper ball carrying technique or more game awareness would just be wasted time.

However, if teaching better technique can reduce fumbling, or if teaching game awareness can make for fewer bone headed plays, then the question can be asked: why haven't they addressed these problems yet? Didn't they recognize the importance of such things; didn't they recognize the problems; aren't the players capable of absorbing new knowledge and improving; or ...?

Nice post. It is true that sometimes His name should be "Hasn't got a clue-biak" over game management decisions.
On the other hand who can argue that there hasn't been some progress shown in the way the team is playing.
And...while fumbling is something the players do, it definately can be coached. Many GOOD NFL coaches manage to be able to take players who fumble and through training and discipline they are able to greatly reduce that problem.

The Pencil Neck
10-15-2008, 10:35 PM
and he needs to be fired because of this? your first point is opinion, you get 10 coaches in the same situation 5 would run out the clock and 5 wouldnt. also you call your timeout with 10 sec to go incase there is a fumble or something like that you get to try again if there is time left on the clock.

you guys are complaining about nothing. the big things like the fact that our team is getting better is what you should be looking at.

Um, no. I'm not saying that he should be fired.

But I disagree with your assertion of how many guys would run out the clock to end the first half. I think that 95 out of 100 coaches go for it UNLESS they don't trust their QB. When Carr was the QB, I half-understood why Kubiak didn't try to at least get a first down or two but with our current offense, it makes no sense to me.

Malloy
10-16-2008, 04:56 AM
LMAO!
Where did you find this?!

This picture was taken at CloakNNNs house. Just part of his sparetime 'basement activities'.

CloakNNNdagger
10-16-2008, 07:30 AM
This picture was taken at CloakNNNs house. Just part of his sparetime 'basement activities'.

Let this be a warning to those who share opinions contrary to mine. :D

steelbtexan
10-16-2008, 10:26 AM
so whats wrong with his clock managment anyway. i havent noticed anything lately. couple of bad chalanges early in the year. :kingkong:

With 48 sec. left on the clock Turk was sent on the field to punt. The officials had mistakenly given MIA. a timeout & said they were going to change the call & restart the clock. There were 20 sec. left on the play clock when Turk punted the ball. After the run back Mia. had 40 sec. left & the ball on their 35 yard line. You can run 6 plays in 40 sec. that was more than enough time to get in FG range. Luckily MIA. decided to run out the clock. I blame Turk but you think KUBES would have said something to him.

The Rosencopter play was a great playcall by KUBES. The fumble was Rosencopters fault but it was coming off a timeout & you would think KUBES would have told Rosencopter to be sure & take care of the ball.

He has helped the teams talent level & they have really cut down on penalties These are signs of good coaching.

Lckily Schaub was able to pull out the game.

Against Mia. it was more of the same TO's bad clock management & the defense giving up the lead @ the end of the end of the game. These are things 1-4 teams do. Until we change these things we will continue to be a bad team.

Most of these things can be fixed.
1. Have a coach stictly in charge of challenging plays & relay it to KUBES
2. A new DC will help the defense
3. A new S&C coach will help defense be stronger @ end of games.
4. Expirience will help Schaub cut down on turnovers. I liked the way he bounced back from turnovers last week & came through in the clutch.
5. KUBES is going to hae to learn better clock management. Lets hope he improves with experience.

There enough of my ranting.

infantrycak
10-16-2008, 10:41 AM
1. Have a coach stictly in charge of challenging plays & relay it to KUBES.

They have a guy in that role now.

CloakNNNdagger
10-16-2008, 10:46 AM
They have a guy in that role now.

Yeh, and it's scarey to watch him enter Reliant with dark glasses, a dog and a white cane.:mcnugget:

steelbtexan
10-16-2008, 10:51 AM
They have a guy in that role now.

They need to fire his A**

steelbtexan
10-16-2008, 10:52 AM
Yeh, and it's scarey to watch him enter Reliant with dark glasses, a dog and a white cane.:mcnugget:

I get the feeling this guy really does exist.

Polo
10-16-2008, 11:03 AM
Belittle the back-up QB, praise the coach.


I think a little of that is because folks recognize that overall Kubiak has improved the team. It's hard to argue that we aren't in better shape than when he arrived.

Every coach makes errors/ bad judgment calls.
A lot of folks wanted Tom Coughlin fired from NY. Tony Dungy was fired from Tampa. Belichick has had bad coaching experiences. Fisher in Tenessee has been criticized.

There isn't a coach that has ever coached that doesn't screw-up, but if you look at the big picture I think it's fairly obvious to see that overall Kubes has the team's arrow pointing up rather than down. Same with the other coaches I mentioned.


With Sage, I think the belittlement comes at the thought of him being a starter. I think most folks are willing to accecpt him as a back-up.

steelbtexan
10-16-2008, 11:09 AM
I think a little of that is because folks recognize that overall Kubiak has improved the team. It's hard to argue that we aren't in better shape than when he arrived.

Every coach makes errors/ bad judgment calls.
A lot of folks wanted Tom Coughlin fired from NY. Tony Dungy was fired from Tampa. Belichick has had bad coaching experiences. Fisher in Tenessee has been criticized.

There isn't a coach that has ever coached that doesn't screw-up, but if you look at the big picture I think it's fairly obvious to see that overall Kubes has the team's arrow pointing up rather than down. Same with the other coaches I mentioned.


With Sage, I think the belittlement comes at the thought of him being a starter. I think most folks are willing to accecpt him as a back-up.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

utahmark
10-16-2008, 11:31 AM
Some people are trying to have a discussion about the strengths and weaknesses of Kubiak's coaching while avoiding the "fire him" and the "he's perfect" crowds. Apparently that is impossible. You're the one that added firing to this part of the discussion.

People need to cool their jets rather than try to be offended.

maybe i read the thread topic wrong?

utahmark
10-16-2008, 11:37 AM
With 48 sec. left on the clock Turk was sent on the field to punt. The officials had mistakenly given MIA. a timeout & said they were going to change the call & restart the clock. There were 20 sec. left on the play clock when Turk punted the ball. After the run back Mia. had 40 sec. left & the ball on their 35 yard line. You can run 6 plays in 40 sec. that was more than enough time to get in FG range. Luckily MIA. decided to run out the clock. I blame Turk but you think KUBES would have said something to him.

The Rosencopter play was a great playcall by KUBES. The fumble was Rosencopters fault but it was coming off a timeout & you would think KUBES would have told Rosencopter to be sure & take care of the ball.

He has helped the teams talent level & they have really cut down on penalties These are signs of good coaching.

Lckily Schaub was able to pull out the game.

Against Mia. it was more of the same TO's bad clock management & the defense giving up the lead @ the end of the end of the game. These are things 1-4 teams do. Until we change these things we will continue to be a bad team.

Most of these things can be fixed.
1. Have a coach stictly in charge of challenging plays & relay it to KUBES
2. A new DC will help the defense
3. A new S&C coach will help defense be stronger @ end of games.
4. Expirience will help Schaub cut down on turnovers. I liked the way he bounced back from turnovers last week & came through in the clutch.
5. KUBES is going to hae to learn better clock management. Lets hope he improves with experience.

There enough of my ranting.

the first point was the refs fault. they stoped the clock when they shouldnt have. kubes was arguing about it with him and was very upset that the clock was stoped. you really didnt make any other points.

GlassHalfFull
10-16-2008, 11:41 AM
the first point was the refs fault. they stoped the clock when they shouldnt have. kubes was arguing about it with him and was very upset that the clock was stoped. you really didnt make any other points.

I'm going to jump in here, because that play bugged me. Once the clock was restarted, Turk should have waited 20 some odd secs to have the ball snapped. There was no reason to snap the ball immediately and give them 40 sec to work with.

Runner
10-16-2008, 12:10 PM
maybe i read the thread topic wrong?

Or maybe you didn't follow the thread as it evolved.

steelbtexan
10-16-2008, 12:38 PM
maybe i read the thread topic wrong?

I believe you have reading problems if you cant understand what I was saying in my previous post.

I'll break it down for you.

I believe I made points about coaching, Strength & conditioning, players @ fault, things we need to do to improve & that we have a bright future if we upgrade talent on defense including the DC.

Since you didn't get the last post I seriously doubt you will get this one either.

I've got 3 words for you

SYLVIAN LEARNING CENTER

HOU-TEX
10-16-2008, 01:14 PM
I believe you have reading problems if you cant understand what I was saying in my previous post.

I'll break it down for you.

I believe I made points about coaching, Strength & conditioning, players @ fault, things we need to do to improve & that we have a bright future if we upgrade talent on defense including the DC.

Since you didn't get the last post I seriously doubt you will get this one either.

I've got 3 words for you

SYLVIAN LEARNING CENTER

Maybe you should take your own advice?

Sylvan Learning Center

Relax Brah! :)

steelbtexan
10-16-2008, 02:36 PM
Maybe you should take your own advice?

Sylvan Learning Center

Relax Brah! :)

I believe a typing class may be in my future.

utahmark
10-16-2008, 03:58 PM
I'm going to jump in here, because that play bugged me. Once the clock was restarted, Turk should have waited 20 some odd secs to have the ball snapped. There was no reason to snap the ball immediately and give them 40 sec to work with.

that was the problem with the play. the clock didnt restart. playclock was running down so we had to hike the ball. thats why kubes was mad.

steelbtexan
10-16-2008, 04:49 PM
I was @ the game & they did stop the clock with the bogus TO. When they realized they made a mistake they restarted the play clock @ 25 sec. The game clock had 53 sec. Turk let 5 sec. run off the play & game clock before he punted the ball. The game clock had also been started. The play ended with 40 sec. left on the clock. Turk should have let the clock run down.

Kubes should have let Turk know this but he was busy arguing with the officials about the play clock which should have been reset @ 35 sec.

threetoedpete
10-17-2008, 02:02 AM
I think a little of that is because folks recognize that overall Kubiak has improved the team. It's hard to argue that we aren't in better shape than when he arrived.

Every coach makes errors/ bad judgment calls.
A lot of folks wanted Tom Coughlin fired from NY. Tony Dungy was fired from Tampa. Belichick has had bad coaching experiences. Fisher in Tenessee has been criticized.

There isn't a coach that has ever coached that doesn't screw-up, but if you look at the big picture I think it's fairly obvious to see that overall Kubes has the team's arrow pointing up rather than down. Same with the other coaches I mentioned.


With Sage, I think the belittlement comes at the thought of him being a starter. I think most folks are willing to accept him as a back-up.

Nice post. I agree. What ever is going to happen in terms of coaches...I believe will happen after next season. They may let Smith fall on his sword for the franchise. I'll believe that one when I see it. I think they are only a couple of pieces away....no matter who the DC is. And we've heard that six times now...but they really are close. I'd like to see Kubiak given his five years myself. Time management, sticking with broken vets a bit too long....stubborn beyond reason...but the guy is making progress. The o-line is coming around and if they can keep the anchors on defense off the field and fresh...they can play with anyone. Looked like a new rotation to me on the d-line. They are doing what they can do with who they have. Either you except that or you don't. Jumping up and down and pitching a fit isn't going to change anything.
Kubes needs one more draft to straighten the thing out.