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View Full Version : How bout some love for Richard Smith?


buddyboy
10-13-2008, 02:38 PM
Hey, this guy's been on the hotseat for a long time now, and probably for good reason.

But the game versus Miami I noticed some good things: constant pressure, blitzes, stopping the run (mostly).

How bout we suck it up and give him even a little credit for this game?

HOU-TEX
10-13-2008, 02:40 PM
Nah, he's still on the hotseat. :)

DiehardChris
10-13-2008, 02:41 PM
Uh, no. Sorry.

Texan_Bill
10-13-2008, 02:42 PM
I'll pass... Because at the end of the day, 'the sun shines on a dog's a$$ some days'.

DBCooper
10-13-2008, 02:43 PM
Hey, this guy's been on the hotseat for a long time now, and probably for good reason.

But the game versus Miami I noticed some good things: constant pressure, blitzes, stopping the run (mostly).

How bout we suck it up and give him even a little credit for this game?

Nice try Dick, but you still need to be fired!

barrett
10-13-2008, 02:43 PM
i will give him as little credit as i can and say that yes, there were signs of improvement. there have been steady signs of improvement over the last three weeks. but going from bad to not as bad is not the same as good. i move forward with extremely cautious optimism.

utahmark
10-13-2008, 03:02 PM
didnt they score 28 points.

Scooter
10-13-2008, 03:05 PM
nope.

J-Russ
10-13-2008, 03:10 PM
Why is he still our DC? Why God, why?

Mr teX
10-13-2008, 03:11 PM
Uh.. only insofar as that he may have had something to do with the D-line shuffle... but then again that may have been kubes. Other than that it's more of our guys are finally making plays. Imagine the array of emotions i went thru when i saw Morlon "the invisible man" Greenwood make not 1 but 2 big plays yesterday.

:confused:.....:um:...then...:piano:

dalemurphy
10-13-2008, 03:13 PM
Hey, this guy's been on the hotseat for a long time now, and probably for good reason.

But the game versus Miami I noticed some good things: constant pressure, blitzes, stopping the run (mostly).

How bout we suck it up and give him even a little credit for this game?

Well, you could read the thread I started before the Miami game titled: "Top 10 Defense"...

I saw major defensive improvement in the Indy game, starting with our play up the middle at LB and safety. The Miami game generally reassured me of my brilliance.

eriadoc
10-13-2008, 03:14 PM
I'll admit, Richard Smith's defense giving up only four touchdowns deserves some love.







*oknotreally*

Errant Hothy
10-13-2008, 03:19 PM
Hey, this guy's been on the hotseat for a long time now, and probably for good reason.

But the game versus Miami I noticed some good things: constant pressure, blitzes, stopping the run (mostly).

How bout we suck it up and give him even a little credit for this game?

Getting burned by an 80 yard screen to Patrick Cobbs!

Polo
10-13-2008, 03:23 PM
Smith isn't as terrible as a lot of you make him out to be....

Our defense playing badly at times is a combination of a lot of things...

Hooston Texan
10-13-2008, 03:23 PM
This was a classic "if you throw out" effort by the D. If you throw out the two big plays and assume that Eugene Wilson doesn't fumble the late pick, this was an outstanding effort by the D. Total yards allowed on 2 plays plus the "reprieve" drive: 206. Yards allowed in the Dolphins' other 10 possessions: 166. I believe half of their first downs came on those 3 series/plays. Sounds good, right?

But the problem is that you cannot "throw out" the bad plays. Yes, the Wildcat pass was unconventional, but the D should have been well aware that Miami was going to throw out more wrinkles (they said as much pregame). And that screen pass breakdown was horrific.

Against really good teams, two big plays can often beat you.

Frankly, Miami did us a favor by playing this really close to the vest. I counted no fewer than 4 fourth-and-one situations that the Dolphins chose to punt on.

That said, I'll agree that the defense played much better today than they did in games 1-3. But that's a pretty low bar to get over.

Texans34Life
10-13-2008, 03:25 PM
Hey, this guy's been on the hotseat for a long time now, and probably for good reason.

But the game versus Miami I noticed some good things: constant pressure, blitzes, stopping the run (mostly).

How bout we suck it up and give him even a little credit for this game?

Are you kidding me? I hope they can him and promote Ray Rhodes. Same type of defense every game. The offense had to bail out the defense to win yesterday.

WesmanTexanfan
10-13-2008, 03:26 PM
Hey, this guy's been on the hotseat for a long time now, and probably for good reason.

But the game versus Miami I noticed some good things: constant pressure, blitzes, stopping the run (mostly).

How bout we suck it up and give him even a little credit for this game?

to quote my man All Borlan "I dont think so Tim"...

Polo
10-13-2008, 03:31 PM
The offense had to bail out the defense to win yesterday.

Because the offense was brilliant and masteful in their execution all game long....

Nevermind the three turnovers...

Corrosion
10-13-2008, 03:31 PM
Hey, this guy's been on the hotseat for a long time now, and probably for good reason.

But the game versus Miami I noticed some good things: constant pressure, blitzes, stopping the run (mostly).

How bout we suck it up and give him even a little credit for this game?

How bout no , First time all year they held someone under 30 and it was a crappy Fish offense that has to rely on gimicks .... AND they gave up two huge plays to a no name reciever , guy had 50ish NFL recieving yards coming into the game and got almost three times that on two plays.

HOU-TEX
10-13-2008, 03:35 PM
The defense can't stop anybody when it counts. We are/or where the worst team in the NFL in redzone defense. Is that all on the players? No, I don't think so.

It has been said by other players that our defense is vanilla and predictable. When actual players of the NFL say that, I'd have to believe them over fans of the team.

We don't have the best talent, but I think we have enough to rank higher than the likes of the Colts, Saints, Cards, Browns, etc.

Texecutioner
10-13-2008, 03:42 PM
Love for Richard Smith? Lol! I might as well go up and give a bunch of love to Casserly or thank David Carr for so many great memories while I'm at it. Lol!

Polo
10-13-2008, 03:45 PM
The defense can't stop anybody when it counts. We are/or where the worst team in the NFL in redzone defense. Is that all on the players? No, I don't think so.



One of the Red Zone TD's from yesterday was from a missed tackle by Mario...

He came in untouched (some may say this implicates a good defensive call)...

How many missed tackles can Smith take the credit for ?

When players do something positive should we give Smith the credit too ?

I guess it's just easier to pin the negatives on him though...Nevermind the specifics of 'how they got there', we just know that they are there...

dalemurphy
10-13-2008, 03:47 PM
How bout no , First time all year they held someone under 30 and it was a crappy Fish offense that has to rely on gimicks .... AND they gave up two huge plays to a no name reciever , guy had 50ish NFL recieving yards coming into the game and got almost three times that on two plays.

Yes, the defense gave up some big plays and certainly wasn't great against a mediocre offense.

However, here are some stats to be excited about:

vs. Miami: 8 Miami drives ended in punt or interception after netting less than 20 yards.... Miami officially had 14 drives and scored on 4 of them- that's pretty good.

vs. Indy/Miami: 3rd conversions for the 2 games = 5 of 22

vs. Indy/Miami: rushing yards allowed = 175 combined for the 2 games.



That's a lot to be happy about. Of course 80 yard screen passes suck and shouldn't be allowed. we are a long ways from a great defense but I think we're going to be pretty good going forward. A pretty good defense and a top 5 offense can get a lot accomplished by the way.

P.S. I'm still not a believer in Richard Smith. But, let's see what happens the next 3 months

Texan_Bill
10-13-2008, 03:49 PM
Some teams have defenses that conjure up some sort of identity...



When you think Texans defense you think............. :cricket:

Polo
10-13-2008, 03:54 PM
Some teams have defenses that conjure up some sort of identity...



When you think Texans defense you think............. :cricket:

How many defenses are designed by the scheme and not the players ?

Not many...

SheTexan
10-13-2008, 03:55 PM
Mario and Demeco make the man APPEAR acceptable! They alone carry his ass, and keep it from going up in flames!! JMHO

Texans34Life
10-13-2008, 03:56 PM
Because the offense was brilliant and masteful in their execution all game long....

Nevermind the three turnovers...

1st Turnover -

1st Half, 1st Quarter

1st-10, MIA45 12:35 A. Ayodele intercepted M. Schaub for 12 yards

Miami - 12:35
1st-10, MIA46 12:35 R. Brown rushed up the middle for 3 yard gain
2nd-7, MIA49 11:56 C. Pennington passed to D. Martin to the left for 6 yard gain
3rd-1, HOU45 11:21 C. Pennington incomplete pass down the middle
4th-1, HOU45 11:06 B. Fields punt, no return

2nd Turnover -

3rd-3, MIA48 6:59 A. Goodman intercepted M. Schaub for no gain

Miami - 6:59
1st-10, MIA45 6:59 R. Williams rushed to the right for 2 yard gain
2nd-8, MIA47 6:08 C. Pennington passed to P. Cobbs down the middle for 53 yard touchdown. D. Carpenter made PAT

3rd Turnover -

1st Half, 2nd Quarter

1st-10, MIA24 0:56 M. Schaub passed to A. Johnson to the right for 17 yard gain. A. Johnson fumbled. Y. Bell recovered fumble

Miami - 0:55
1st-10, MIA20 0:55 HOU committed 5 yard penalty
1st-5, MIA25 0:27 R. Brown rushed to the left for 2 yard gain

So on the 3 turnovers -

1 stop, gave up 1 TD, and got lucky on the 3rd TO because the half was over.

What the defense do to help the offense? 2 sacks (both by Mario with no help from the rest of his compadres on the DL) and 1 INT, which was fumbled back to Miami.

WWJD
10-13-2008, 03:58 PM
I think he'll be looking for another job next season...with another team.

Or maybe another profession.

dalemurphy
10-13-2008, 04:03 PM
1st Turnover -



What the defense do to help the offense? 2 sacks (both by Mario with no help from the rest of his compadres on the DL) and 1 INT, which was fumbled back to Miami.

Miami had 8 drives, not counting the drive right before half and at the end of the game, where they totalled 6 plays or less and less than 20 yards- 7 resulted in punts and one in an interception.

so, to the question of what the defense did for the offense, it got the ball back to them quickly and in good field position and gave them 14 posessions instead of the typical 9 or 10.

HOU-TEX
10-13-2008, 04:03 PM
One of the Red Zone TD's from yesterday was from a missed tackle by Mario...

He came in untouched (some may say this implicates a good defensive call)...

How many missed tackles can Smith take the credit for ?

When players do something positive should we give Smith the credit too ?

I guess it's just easier to pin the negatives on him though...Nevermind the specifics of 'how they got there', we just know that they are there...

I suppose you'd find an excuse for every redzone failure to cover up for Smith, so I won't bother with it anymore. Like I said, I'll side with players that have actually gone up against our defense over you. No offense. :cool:

Polo
10-13-2008, 04:05 PM
What the defense do to help the offense? 2 sacks (both by Mario with no help from the rest of his compadres on the DL) and 1 INT, which was fumbled back to Miami.


Out of 13 possesions the defense made the Dolphins punt or turn it over 8 times...

Don't forget that the offense didn't score one of those Touch-Downs...
And don't forget one of the Dolphins four TD's came after the defense had virtually stopped the Dolphins only to have Wilson fumble the ball...

In fact, I'm more inclined to give the Jacoby Jones TD to the defense for making the offense punt...

In the first half the Offense put the ball in the endzone a grand total of 0 times...

Polo
10-13-2008, 04:07 PM
I suppose you'd find an excuse for every redzone failure to cover up for Smith, so I won't bother with it anymore. Like I said, I'll side with players that have actually gone up against our defense over you. No offense. :cool:


Not finding excuses...I just find you guys' decision making process regarding this matter flawed...

I like how you dodged the issue of miss tackles though...


Vanilla doesn't necessarily = bad.

Texan_Bill
10-13-2008, 04:09 PM
Vanilla doesn't necessarily = bad.

Vanilla = 1-4

Polo
10-13-2008, 04:10 PM
Vanilla = 1-4

Yeah...That's the reason for our record...

You got me.

b0ng
10-13-2008, 04:12 PM
If we can win a game 14-3 14-7 then I'll be happy with the defense. If the players are bad, they aren't getting coached well enough. If the scheme isn't fitting the players skills, then that's a coach problem.

No love from here.

HoustonFrog
10-13-2008, 04:14 PM
Love for doing a partially good job for the first time in 2 years?No thanks.

steelbtexan
10-13-2008, 04:23 PM
Finally we hold a team under 30 & presto we win.

HOU-TEX
10-13-2008, 04:28 PM
Not finding excuses...I just find you guys' decision making process regarding this matter flawed...

I like how you dodged the issue of miss tackles though...


Vanilla doesn't necessarily = bad.

What's the purpose? Would you actually admit it if you were wrong? I don't think so. :tiphat:

Polo
10-13-2008, 04:30 PM
What's the purpose? Would you actually admit it if you were wrong? I don't think so. :tiphat:

I've done it plenty times before...Not sure why this situation would be any different..

If you truly had a case, I would hope your being weary of me not admitting I'm wrong would not stand in the way of you presenting your argument...

Really I've yet to see much actual discussion about Smith and our defense..especially in this thread...

Most comments regarding the defense that I've read don't have much substance to them nor do they correlate to the actual on field performance...But that's JMO of course...

ObsiWan
10-13-2008, 04:43 PM
This was a classic "if you throw out" effort by the D. If you throw out the two big plays and assume that Eugene Wilson doesn't fumble the late pick, this was an outstanding effort by the D. Total yards allowed on 2 plays plus the "reprieve" drive: 206. Yards allowed in the Dolphins' other 10 possessions: 166. I believe half of their first downs came on those 3 series/plays. Sounds good, right?

But the problem is that you cannot "throw out" the bad plays. Yes, the Wildcat pass was unconventional, but the D should have been well aware that Miami was going to throw out more wrinkles (they said as much pregame). And that screen pass breakdown was horrific.

Against really good teams, two big plays can often beat you.

Frankly, Miami did us a favor by playing this really close to the vest. I counted no fewer than 4 fourth-and-one situations that the Dolphins chose to punt on.

That said, I'll agree that the defense played much better today than they did in games 1-3. But that's a pretty low bar to get over.

Especially that 4th & one chain link situ that they decided to punt on.

And I do believe we're still giving up 30 pts/game on average.

PapaL
10-13-2008, 04:47 PM
All that pressure and all those good things still results in big plays resulting in TDs and 28 points given up.

I consider it their Offense beat themselves as opposed to us beating them. We had no answer for the Wildcat.

Texan_Bill
10-13-2008, 04:53 PM
Yeah...That's the reason for our record...

You got me.

Well, 5th in overall offense and 23rd in overall defense lends itself to a 1-4 start.

Polo
10-13-2008, 04:54 PM
Well, 5th in overall offense and 23rd in overall defense lends itself to a 1-4 start.

Still a very simplistic view of looking at things but since you said "lends" I can dig it. Still doesn't equate to Richard Smith being the main cause of our defensive troubles.

Brandon420tx
10-13-2008, 04:58 PM
If Mario makes that tackle, we have to burn a timeout, and stop them the next play, burn a timeout, and hope they miss a field goal, if they make it, we have to drive down the field without timeouts to get into Kris Browns field goal range, Although, we'd only have to make it to the 40 yard line minimum ;)

utahmark
10-13-2008, 05:02 PM
One of the Red Zone TD's from yesterday was from a missed tackle by Mario...

He came in untouched (some may say this implicates a good defensive call)...

How many missed tackles can Smith take the credit for ?

When players do something positive should we give Smith the credit too ?

I guess it's just easier to pin the negatives on him though...Nevermind the specifics of 'how they got there', we just know that they are there...

guys tackled pretty well sunday. its the nfl, the offensive player is going to win most 1 on 1 battles.

i think guys mainly dont like his philosiphy. its more of a base defensive that doesnt bring a lot of blitzes. the cowboys played a 4-3 and didnt give the d-line much help back in the 90's. it worked for them but they were getting pressure from the front 4. we only get pressure from 1 guy. we dont really have the tools to get the pressure we need with our d-line. so im thinkin we need to work with what we got and change our philosiphy a bit. maybe im wrong but i would rather put presure on qb's and make teams make mistakes. thats the way most of the recent good defenses seem to get things done.

ObsiWan
10-13-2008, 05:07 PM
How many defenses are designed by the scheme and not the players ?

Not many...

I respectfully disagree.

- There's the many different flavors of the "Tampa Two"... that's a designed scheme that you draft players to fit.

- There's the back alley defense that Tennessee employs where the intent is to intimidate and bully. That's a purposeful attitude that you coach into the players and you seek out players that naturally have that attitude. Chicago used to play it but they've lost their edge. Jacksonville tries to play it too probably because they're coached by an ex-LB. When's the last time we saw a Texan defender execute a de-cleater on a RB or punish a WR after a catch. Oh noooo, we're much to polite.

- There's the swarm to the ball defense that the Colts and Cowboys try to play a defense that relies on team speed. Again, you formulate a scheme and bring in guys that fit it.

I mean, Kubiak did just that for the offense and right now its in the top ten in the NFL. Our defense is giving up 31.6 pt/game

and yeah, I know this is a "chicken & egg" argument with no definitive answer but what the hey... I believe you formulate a solid scheme and bring in guys that fit it.
You can't wait until you draft 11 pro-bowlers and hope good things happen.

Texans_Chick
10-13-2008, 05:16 PM
Yes. I love that Richard Smith's defense was so bad that it allowed Miami to score a TD at the end of the game using only 5 plays and 1:19 off the clock.

Impressive!!!!

Yup, if you just take all the big plays made by the Dolphins out of the game, the defense played really well.

dalemurphy
10-13-2008, 05:35 PM
Yes. I love that Richard Smith's defense was so bad that it allowed Miami to score a TD at the end of the game using only 5 plays and 1:19 off the clock.

Impressive!!!!

Yup, if you just take all the big plays made by the Dolphins out of the game, the defense played really well.


There were a few breakdowns. However, at least the defense is making things happen. They made plays yesterday to end drives and did the same thing against Indy. I can live with some mistakes by guys like Harrison, who are very inexperienced but show some playmaking abilities and opportunity to make the Defense better.

If our offense gets 13-14 posessions per game, we are going to win a lot of games. So, if the defense can force a lot of 3 and outs and/or turnovers, even if it surrenders points, we'll outscore most of the teams we play.

LonerATO
10-13-2008, 05:45 PM
You know something deep inside me tells me that if we break even this year or go a game over 500 that it will be justified to keep Smith are the DC by Kubes

brakos82
10-13-2008, 05:47 PM
I'm not jumping on this one until Dick Smith gets fired.

Polo
10-14-2008, 09:39 AM
guys tackled pretty well sunday. its the nfl, the offensive player is going to win most 1 on 1 battles.

i think guys mainly dont like his philosiphy. its more of a base defensive that doesnt bring a lot of blitzes. the cowboys played a 4-3 and didnt give the d-line much help back in the 90's. it worked for them but they were getting pressure from the front 4. we only get pressure from 1 guy. we dont really have the tools to get the pressure we need with our d-line. so im thinkin we need to work with what we got and change our philosiphy a bit. maybe im wrong but i would rather put presure on qb's and make teams make mistakes. thats the way most of the recent good defenses seem to get things done.

Demeco Ryans disagrees.

His exact words were: "we don't have the personnel to blitz that often" (well maybe not exact, but it was something along those lines)

Polo
10-14-2008, 09:41 AM
Yes. I love that Richard Smith's defense was so bad that it allowed Miami to score a TD at the end of the game using only 5 plays and 1:19 off the clock.

Impressive!!!!

Yup, if you just take all the big plays made by the Dolphins out of the game, the defense played really well.

Nevermind the fact that the Texans had stopped them only to have Wilson fumble the ball...

What was Smith thinking...

Polo
10-14-2008, 09:50 AM
I respectfully disagree.

- There's the many different flavors of the "Tampa Two"... that's a designed scheme that you draft players to fit.

I said "most defenses" not all. And please point out the "many" successful versions of the Tampa 2 that are not defined by the players...Meaning they continuosly have good defenses despite the players that play in them....Please point out all of these tampa 2 teams with this great success...

There are only a handful of co-ordinators in the leauge that constantly have good defenses despite their players...



When's the last time we saw a Texan defender execute a de-cleater on a RB or punish a WR after a catch. Oh noooo, we're much to polite.

Don't see what that has to do with scheme...

- There's the swarm to the ball defense that the Colts and Cowboys try to play a defense that relies on team speed. Again, you formulate a scheme and bring in guys that fit it.

Too bad the Cowboys defense isn't playing all that well, and the Colts defense sucks without Sanders....colts defense is also ranked just about where we are right now....

Swarm to the ball isn't scheme anyways...


You can't wait until you draft 11 pro-bowlers and hope good things happen.

11 pro-bowlers ?

We've only had one..


And by no means am I saying that Smith is a great defensive mind being held back by his talent. I'm just saying that I think he takes more heat than he deserves at times.

Mr teX
10-14-2008, 10:34 AM
I said "most defenses" not all. And please point out the "many" successful versions of the Tampa 2 that are not defined by the players...Meaning they continuosly have good defenses despite the players that play in them....Please point out all of these tampa 2 teams with this great success....





Don't see what that has to do with scheme...



Too bad the Cowboys defense isn't playing all that well, and the Colts defense sucks without Sanders....colts defense is also ranked just about where we are right now....

Swarm to the ball isn't scheme anyways...

.

11 pro-bowlers ?

We've only had one..


And by no means am I saying that Smith is a great defensive mind being held back by his talent. I'm just saying that I think he takes more heat than he deserves at times.

he should when you're dropping your best pass rusher back in coverage despite not being able to pressure the passer effectively with that guy on the d-line most other plays. Or...when there's a 3rd & 5 & you've got your CB's off the WR's 5-7 yds. Or.... when you do blitz, it's in the most obvious of situations.... Or.. when you've got a fast d-lineman holding up O-lineman instead of letting him do what he's does best in using his speed to rush the passer. The dude doesn't give his team an edge in anything.

To sum it up, we're still ranked among the bottom in nearly every major defensive statistical category & i'm sorry, you can't blame that all on missed tackles. IMO, We've played "better" b/c of some addition by subtraction amongst our personnel in the secondary & along the d-line & home cooking. Richard Smith i'm sure had something to do with that but he might've only did that b/c he started feeling his seat getting warmer.

Hardcore Texan
10-14-2008, 10:41 AM
I will hold my kudos for Smith until I see if Ryan Fitzpatrick's torches our D in a couple of weeks........again.

HOU-TEX
10-14-2008, 10:43 AM
I will hold my kudos for Smith until I see if Ryan Fitzpatrick's torches our D in a couple of weeks........again.

We have Olavfrgdhfhjdsky this Sunday. I reckon he'll have a stellar outing this weekend.

Polo
10-14-2008, 10:50 AM
he should when you're dropping your best pass rusher back in coverage despite not being able to pressure the passer effectively with that guy on the d-line most other plays. Or...when there's a 3rd & 5 & you've got your CB's off the WR's 5-7 yds. Or.... when you do blitz, it's in the most obvious of situations.... Or.. when you've got a fast d-lineman holding up O-lineman instead of letting him do what he's does best in using his speed to rush the passer. The dude doesn't give his team an edge in anything.

IMHO, I just think you're analysis is wrong....Especially re: the DT's...

You don't have one DT penetrate while the rest of the line is playing gaps...That's a sure way to create a huge hole...Besides that, D-lines that play a penetrating style vs. a gap responsibility style normally give up a lot of big running plays because if they guess the wrong gap the Offensive linemans job is pretty much done for him...Even if they guess the right gap all the lineman has to do is use their momentum and push them past the hole...One DT playing a penetrating style would be ugly...And just because Okoye is not called a 'two gapper' doesn't mean he isn't actually responsible for two gaps...

As far as the rest of the defensive calls (dropping Mario and Weaver into coverage), I'll just chalk it up to who knows...Personally I don't have a problem with it, but I can see why some do....



To sum it up, we're still ranked among the bottom in nearly every major defensive statistical category & i'm sorry, you can't blame that all on missed tackles. IMO, We've played "better" b/c of some addition by subtraction amongst our personnel in the secondary & along the d-line & home cooking. Richard Smith i'm sure had something to do with that but he might've only did that b/c he started feeling his seat getting warmer.

Not blaming it all on missed tackles...Not sure why you have to go to extremes...I clearly said that I don't think Richard Smith is a talented co-ordinator who's personnel is failing him...YOU even highlighted thae sentence after that...I've said several times that I think the bad defense is a combination of multiple things and not all of them have to do with the defense itself...Offense has put them in some pretty terrible situations throughout the year...

Hervoyel
10-14-2008, 10:53 AM
Hey, this guy's been on the hotseat for a long time now, and probably for good reason.

But the game versus Miami I noticed some good things: constant pressure, blitzes, stopping the run (mostly).

How bout we suck it up and give him even a little credit for this game?

Not going to happen. They still do far too many inexplicable things on that side of the ball and giving up 38, 31, 30, 31, and finally 28 points isn't the fast track to earning some props in my book. I'm not giving the guy a gold star because he finally managed to keep an opponent under 30 points.

Year in and year out Richard Smith coaches the 24th ranked defense. He's sitting right there at 23 today in yards per game, 30th in points allowed.

Make some progress for once in your life Dick and we'll talk about some appreciation.

False Start
10-14-2008, 11:02 AM
I thought this was going to be a joke thread. The guy still bugs me. As many have said when your D gives up 30 points a game its hard to give him credit. If he wants credit he should apply for an American Express card.

Polo
10-14-2008, 11:16 AM
They still do far too many inexplicable things on that side of the ball and giving up 38, 31, 30, 31, and finally 28 points isn't the fast track to earning some props in my book.

Here are some numbers: 3,3,0, 3, 4

We are minus 8 in the turnover category and our defense is virtually in a tie for ninth place in turnovers caused....That's top ten...That means that our offense has been giving the ball away at an alarming rate...We have 13 turnovers in 5 games and one game we didn't turn it over at all...that's terrible...We're basically top ten for turnovers caused and top ten for turnovers given away...

Nevermind how many times the offense has sent a tired defense onto the field after turning it over, or how many short fields we've had to play on...Nevermind the fact that when we do have turnovers offense has struggled to capatalize...Like in Pittsburg when we had a chance to gain a little momentum...Mario crushes Ben, Demeco runs the fumble down inside the redzone...Offense comes away with a field goal...


Turn the ball over less and I guarantee the defense looks a whole lot better...Capatalize on the turnovers our D causes and I guarantee the whole team looks better...

barrett
10-14-2008, 11:39 AM
excellent point. my concern is that the "bend don't break" concept is breaking too often but i think it is sometimes due to exactly what you've stated. it's designed to work over a longer stretch of field where it can capitalize on offensive mistakes and miscues. when they've only got 50 yards to cover (or less) it hinders the defense from functioning the way it is designed. so long as we continue to show progress i'll remain on board.

Wolf
10-14-2008, 11:51 AM
Take away Mario and we have 1 sack: ONE,UNO as a team.

cowbellm00
10-14-2008, 11:53 AM
Hey, this guy's been on the hotseat for a long time now, and probably for good reason.

But the game versus Miami I noticed some good things: constant pressure, blitzes, stopping the run (mostly).

How bout we suck it up and give him even a little credit for this game?

nope. no love from me. he still needs to get gone!
:fans:

Second Honeymoon
10-14-2008, 11:53 AM
screw Richard Smith. his defense still fails to stop people when it counts. the offense bailed him out this week.

if AJ doesn't catch that ball on 4th down we are left with the defense failing to hold a lead...once again.

the guy should have been fired before last year, much less keep his job this year. he is a bum and a horrible coach.

TexansLucky13
10-14-2008, 11:55 AM
Like I said in the soap thread... if I see some obvious improvement in the next game, I will toss the soap. We can't give up big plays like that and expect to win anything in this league other than the #1 pick.

eriadoc
10-14-2008, 12:05 PM
Like I said in the soap thread... if I see some obvious improvement in the next game, I will toss the soap. We can't give up big plays like that and expect to win anything in this league other than the #1 pick.

What if we only give up 24 points to the Lions? Is that obvious improvement? I mean, we haven't held any team to 24 points yet, but still ... it's the Lions with Dan Orsafety.

I'd adopt the pink soap, but I like my avatar right now. Fire Richard Smith.

dalemurphy
10-14-2008, 12:53 PM
Not going to happen. They still do far too many inexplicable things on that side of the ball and giving up 38, 31, 30, 31, and finally 28 points isn't the fast track to earning some props in my book. I'm not giving the guy a gold star because he finally managed to keep an opponent under 30 points.

Year in and year out Richard Smith coaches the 24th ranked defense. He's sitting right there at 23 today in yards per game, 30th in points allowed.

Make some progress for once in your life Dick and we'll talk about some appreciation.

Nor should you criticize him for the Indianapolis score. The defensive played very well that game and gave up nothing after the first quarter. Even the fourth quarter drive they had took up almost 5 minutes and was exactly what they wanted to do- eat up the clock.

I was one of the first to express concern about Smith. However, obviously the final score isn't necessarily indicative of the defense's play. The past 2 weeks I've seen a lot to be encouraged by regarding the defense...

1. lots of 3 and outs
2. low 3rd conversion rates
3. strong run defense

those are some things to be very encouraged by.

eriadoc
10-14-2008, 12:55 PM
Nor should you criticize him for the Indianapolis score. The defensive played very well that game and gave up nothing after the first quarter. Even the fourth quarter drive they had took up almost 5 minutes and was exactly what they wanted to do- eat up the clock.

I was one of the first to express concern about Smith. However, obviously the final score isn't necessarily indicative of the defense's play. The past 2 weeks I've seen a lot to be encouraged by regarding the defense...

1. lots of 3 and outs
2. low 3rd conversion rates
3. strong run defense

those are some things to be very encouraged by.

I'll agree with that. And when those things actually translate into keeping opponents off the scoreboard, maybe I'll show some appreciation for Richard Smith.

Polo
10-14-2008, 12:56 PM
Nor should you criticize him for the Indianapolis score. The defensive played very well that game and gave up nothing after the first quarter. Even the fourth quarter drive they had took up almost 5 minutes and was exactly what they wanted to do- eat up the clock.

I was one of the first to express concern about Smith. However, obviously the final score isn't necessarily indicative of the defense's play. The past 2 weeks I've seen a lot to be encouraged by regarding the defense...

1. lots of 3 and outs
2. low 3rd conversion rates
3. strong run defense

those are some things to be very encouraged by.


Offensive turnovers have contributed to the final score as well:

Here are some numbers: 3,3,0, 3, 4

We are minus 8 in the turnover category and our defense is virtually in a tie for ninth place in turnovers caused....That's top ten...That means that our offense has been giving the ball away at an alarming rate...We have 13 turnovers in 5 games and one game we didn't turn it over at all...that's terrible...We're basically top ten for turnovers caused and top ten for turnovers given away...

Nevermind how many times the offense has sent a tired defense onto the field after turning it over, or how many short fields we've had to play on...Nevermind the fact that when we do have turnovers offense has struggled to capatalize...Like in Pittsburg when we had a chance to gain a little momentum...Mario crushes Ben, Demeco runs the fumble down inside the redzone...Offense comes away with a field goal...


Turn the ball over less and I guarantee the defense looks a whole lot better...Capatalize on the turnovers our D causes and I guarantee the whole team looks better...

Goldensilence
10-14-2008, 01:12 PM
Here are some numbers: 3,3,0, 3, 4

We are minus 8 in the turnover category and our defense is virtually in a tie for ninth place in turnovers caused....That's top ten...That means that our offense has been giving the ball away at an alarming rate...We have 13 turnovers in 5 games and one game we didn't turn it over at all...that's terrible...We're basically top ten for turnovers caused and top ten for turnovers given away...

Nevermind how many times the offense has sent a tired defense onto the field after turning it over, or how many short fields we've had to play on...Nevermind the fact that when we do have turnovers offense has struggled to capatalize...Like in Pittsburg when we had a chance to gain a little momentum...Mario crushes Ben, Demeco runs the fumble down inside the redzone...Offense comes away with a field goal...


Turn the ball over less and I guarantee the defense looks a whole lot better...Capatalize on the turnovers our D causes and I guarantee the whole team looks better...

I'd be inclined to agree with this if a part of me didn't feel like every time the offense is on the field they pretty much have to try to punch it in every time to keep the up with opposing offenses.

There is SOME improvement I won't jump on and say it's been a lot. Smith's defense has had a history of improving throughout the year after sluggish starts. Most of that is due to him being put under the gun IMO.

Mr teX
10-14-2008, 01:20 PM
IMHO, I just think you're analysis is wrong....Especially re: the DT's...



You don't have one DT penetrate while the rest of the line is playing gaps...That's a sure way to create a huge hole...Besides that, D-lines that play a penetrating style vs. a gap responsibility style normally give up a lot of big running plays because if they guess the wrong gap the Offensive linemans job is pretty much done for him...Even if they guess the right gap all the lineman has to do is use their momentum and push them past the hole...One DT playing a penetrating style would be ugly...And just because Okoye is not called a 'two gapper' doesn't mean he isn't actually responsible for two gaps...

As far as the rest of the defensive calls (dropping Mario and Weaver into coverage), I'll just chalk it up to who knows...Personally I don't have a problem with it, but I can see why some do....



Not blaming it all on missed tackles...Not sure why you have to go to extremes...I clearly said that I don't think Richard Smith is a talented co-ordinator who's personnel is failing him...YOU even highlighted thae sentence after that...I've said several times that I think the bad defense is a combination of multiple things and not all of them have to do with the defense itself...Offense has put them in some pretty terrible situations throughout the year...


i understand what you're saying about the DT's but the proof is in the putting & the 1st 2 games when he's had his DT's doing that we were essentially torched in the run game. fast forward to the last 3 when we've seen Okoye & the other DT's allowed to get up field & we're all of a sudden shutting team's run game down & Okoye has his best game this year. Point is, you've got to scheme to your player's strength & too often he's not done that. The bend but don't break defense works well when you've got a great players in your LB core & secondary....the secondary is our weakest area on the defense & we've got 1.5 Lbs worth a damn so why on earth would you play that?

it's kinda like others have said about the offense...we know you want to run kubes but right now we're better at passing so lets use the passing game to set up the run....we've been better since.

I'm not trying to put it all on Smith either i just don't think he's worth any kudos...

Polo
10-14-2008, 01:25 PM
i understand what you're saying about the DT's but the proof is in the putting & the 1st 2 games when he's had his DT's doing that we were essentially torched in the run game. fast forward to the last 3 when we've seen Okoye & the other DT's allowed to get up field & we're all of a sudden shutting team's run game down & Okoye has his best game this year.

Ok...

So you note that Richard Smith has made adjustments...You note that there are signs of improvement...

Am I missing something ?


Point is, you've got to scheme to your player's strength & too often he's not done that.

According to you, he has...

If he's started letting his DT's penetrate more (I haven't noticed that, but you said you did) then isn't that playing to his players strengths/making adjustments ?

The bend but don't break defense works well when you've got a great players in your LB core & secondary....the secondary is our weakest area on the defense & we've got 1.5 Lbs worth a damn so why on earth would you play that?

I guess it's just a matter of philophies...I don't agree with your above sentiments, but I do understand what you're saying...

Personally I believe when you have a lack of talent, bend but don't break is a great way of letting you star players eventually make a play for you while not allowing too many big plays...IMO, it's been working...We're listed as 22nd in turnovers caused, but we're basically in a tie for tenth place....If we keep up at the rate we are now, it's very likely we'll be in the top half of the league (maybe top 10) when all is said and done...




it's kinda like others have said about the offense...we know you want to run kubes but right now we're better at passing so lets use the passing game to set up the run....we've been better since.

I'm not trying to put it all on Smith either i just don't think he's worth any kudos...

Fair enough.

Polo
10-14-2008, 01:28 PM
I'd be inclined to agree with this if a part of me didn't feel like every time the offense is on the field they pretty much have to try to punch it in every time to keep the up with opposing offenses.


Well someone needs to tell them that they don't...

Someone needs to tell them that if we just punted instead of turning it over we'd be a lot better off...

Lots of folks saying that the offense bailed out the defense this past game, but we forget that Jacoby scored one of those touchdowns after a strong defensive stand after the offense started so terribly...The defensive stand and the punt return ignited the team...According to some of the players...

Not sure why Wilson fumbling the football after defense had basically shut them down to end the game gets ignored as well...

ObsiWan
10-14-2008, 01:41 PM
I said "most defenses" not all. And please point out the "many" successful versions of the Tampa 2 that are not defined by the players...Meaning they continuosly have good defenses despite the players that play in them....Please point out all of these tampa 2 teams with this great success...
I think you're purposely ignoring my point. You define the scheme then go out and get good players that can execute it. If you haven't accumulated all the pieces, of course you're not going to be as successful as the teams that have done so.

There are only a handful of co-ordinators in the leauge that constantly have good defenses despite their players...
Well, at least you acknowledge that it can be done. That's all I'm trying to say.


Quote:
When's the last time we saw a Texan defender execute a de-cleater on a RB or punish a WR after a catch. Oh noooo, we're much to polite.

Don't see what that has to do with scheme..
It has to do with the attitude of the coaching staff and that gets transmitted to the players - in Tennessee's case, it comes from Fisher. In Tampa's case, it comes from Gruden. That attitude also comes from what type of mindset the coaching staff requires in the players that get drafted and/or signed by the GM. Does the coaching staff want workout warriors or real football players?


Too bad the Cowboys defense isn't playing all that well, and the Colts defense sucks without Sanders....colts defense is also ranked just about where we are right now....

Swarm to the ball isn't scheme anyways...

No. But it is a result of good coaching.

11 pro-bowlers ?

We've only had one..

Nice try Polo, but I know you're not dumb. You know what I meant. That's the extreme extrapolation of the "we need to wait until we get really good players, then we'll be good" philosophy.

And by no means am I saying that Smith is a great defensive mind being held back by his talent. I'm just saying that I think he takes more heat than he deserves at times.
Well, maybe.... I'll say this; you made a point earlier that I have to concede. Smith cannot be held totally responsible for poor tackling. So yes, some of this heat needs to be applied directly to the players.

eriadoc
10-14-2008, 01:47 PM
It has to do with the attitude of the coaching staff and that gets transmitted to the players - in Tennessee's case, it comes from Fisher. In Tampa's case, it comes from Gruden. That attitude also comes from what type of mindset the coaching staff requires in the players that get drafted and/or signed by the GM. Does the coaching staff want workout warriors or real football players?

There are coaches that have coached excellent defenses that don't necessarily have the in-your-face style of coaching you allude to. Tony Dungy and Lovie Smith come to mind off-hand.

TexansLucky13
10-14-2008, 01:56 PM
What if we only give up 24 points to the Lions? Is that obvious improvement? I mean, we haven't held any team to 24 points yet, but still ... it's the Lions with Dan Orsafety.

That depends. What if one of those TDs were a big special teams play by the Lions? That would mean that our true defense would have actually only given up 17 points... and I would call that an obvious improvement.

I will call it as I see it. If our defense can keep the opposing offense out of pay dirt consistently, I will be happy. We have yet to see that this season.