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Koolaid Time
10-12-2008, 06:07 PM
As was mentioned by others and by watching the TiVo, I must agree... Duane was telegraphing the run/pass plays.

If I can pick it up, i'm sure the scout teams for the opposition can as well.

I'm sure the Coaching Staff will remedy the situation, but until then...

b0ng
10-12-2008, 06:08 PM
While it's not good for Brown to do that, I think that is something that is easily fixed by Alex Gibbs.

Brown looked rough out there today. I think his inexperience against the 3-4 is really showing.

Mailman
10-12-2008, 06:12 PM
As was mentioned by others by watching the TiVo, I must agree... Duane was telegraphing the run/pass plays.

If I can pick it up, i'm sure the scout teams for the opposition can as well.

I'm sure the Coaching Staff will remedy the situation, but until then...

That presumes the coaching staff will pick that up on tape, but I'm sure one of our internet football geniuses will shoot an email over to Kubiak and Gibbs to give 'em the heads up.

hradhak
10-12-2008, 06:12 PM
He's played fairly well thus far this season. I've been satisfied with his play. He's going to have some growing pains, the LT is a tough position to play. From what I've heard from other people the LT shows his stuff by the 3rd season. I'm willing to wait knowing that he'll need to get some help for now.

Sideline
10-12-2008, 06:14 PM
Thats intresting, how is he telegraphing it? I will take a look and see what you mean when my copy of the game arrives in the next few days.

Wolf
10-12-2008, 06:16 PM
Thats intresting, how is he telegraphing it? I will take a look and see what you mean when my copy of the game arrives in the next few days.

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums//showpost.php?p=1021852&postcount=1

CND quote
DURING THE BEGINNING OF THE GAME, VINNY POINTED OUT THAT IT APPEARED THAT DUANE BROWN WAS TELEGRAPHING OUT PLAYS. I SPENT THE REST OF THE GAME TABBING HIS OBSERVATION........AND IT'S A DEFINITE. APPROXIMATELY 90% OF THE TIME, IF BROWN TOOK A FULL CROUCH POSITION, IT WAS RUN...............IF BROWN TOOK A SEMI-CROUCH/SEMI-UPRIGHT POSITION, IT WAS A PASS. SOMEONE NEEDS TO RELATE THIS TO THE COACHES.

Brandon420tx
10-12-2008, 07:53 PM
I sure hope Lions fans don't come on this board and see this...

HJam72
10-12-2008, 07:55 PM
I sure hope Lions fans don't come on this board and see this...

:brickwall:

TexanSam
10-12-2008, 07:56 PM
I sure hope Lions fans don't come on this board and see this...

I sure hope the Lions coaching staff doesn't catch it and the Texans staff does...

Wolf
10-13-2008, 11:56 AM
bump to see if Vinny has anything to add or if anything was mentioned on the talk shows around Houston

TEXANS84
10-13-2008, 01:39 PM
I sure hope Lions fans don't come on this board and see this...

Their too concerned with their quarterback running out of bounds in the back of the endzone.

gtexan02
10-13-2008, 01:54 PM
Their too concerned with their quarterback running out of bounds in the back of the endzone.

That may have been the single funniest moment in the NFL this season. It tops Turk's embarassing recovery of a fumble

GuerillaBlack
10-13-2008, 01:59 PM
I sure hope Lions fans don't come on this board and see this...

What will they do?

gtexan02
10-13-2008, 02:04 PM
Same thing we do---- assume that our discussion of strategy makes a difference :)

CloakNNNdagger
10-13-2008, 05:00 PM
Just FYI,

Spoke to Kubiak's administrative assistant, who said that she would personally relate the "telegraph" to him. Thought he would be interested if indeed this was the case.

utahmark
10-13-2008, 05:21 PM
Just FYI,

Spoke to Kubiak's administrative assistant, who said that she would personally relate the "telegraph" to him. Thought he would be interested if indeed this was the case.

cool, maybe we actually did something to help the team. not that i did anything.

Texan_Bill
10-13-2008, 05:51 PM
Just FYI,

Spoke to Kubiak's administrative assistant, who said that she would personally relate the "telegraph" to him. Thought he would be interested if indeed this was the case.

I thought that was you on the phone calling the show on 610 - just a few minutes ago....

CloakNNNdagger
10-13-2008, 05:57 PM
I thought that was you on the phone calling the show on 610 - just a few minutes ago....

http://www.chasthornhill.com/IMAGES/ART/Wink600.jpg

ObsiWan
10-13-2008, 07:16 PM
Thats intresting, how is he telegraphing it? I will take a look and see what you mean when my copy of the game arrives in the next few days.

you can order copies of games????
How???!

The Pencil Neck
10-13-2008, 07:22 PM
you can order copies of games????
How???!

I would like to get a piece of that action, too. That way I could free up some space on my DVR. The HD games kill me.

TEXANRED
10-13-2008, 07:30 PM
Just FYI,

Spoke to Kubiak's administrative assistant, who said that she would personally relate the "telegraph" to him. Thought he would be interested if indeed this was the case.

I thought that it was rather amusing when there was a moment of silence on the phone and Kubes came back with how he was going to run to the game film.

My first thought was that these guys get paid a lot of money and already know he was telegraphing his plays. But when he came back with the response that indicated that he did not know what you speak of, that was funny.

Doesn't Kubiak know the correct answer is: "We know and are working to correct that situation." Never let on that a fan knows more than you.

CloakNNNdagger
10-13-2008, 08:10 PM
I thought that it was rather amusing when there was a moment of silence on the phone and Kubes came back with how he was going to run to the game film.

My first thought was that these guys get paid a lot of money and already know he was telegraphing his plays. But when he came back with the response that indicated that he did not know what you speak of, that was funny.
Doesn't Kubiak know the correct answer is: "We know and are working to correct that situation." Never let on that a fan knows more than you.

I wasn't sure if anyone caught that.:cowboy1:

Wolf
10-13-2008, 09:43 PM
Just FYI,

Spoke to Kubiak's administrative assistant, who said that she would personally relate the "telegraph" to him. Thought he would be interested if indeed this was the case.

+1 rep for you and vinny on that

nero THE zero
10-13-2008, 10:24 PM
Our offense is even better than I thought if we can put up 500 yds when they know what's coming.

HJam72
10-13-2008, 10:37 PM
I thought that it was rather amusing when there was a moment of silence on the phone and Kubes came back with how he was going to run to the game film.

My first thought was that these guys get paid a lot of money and already know he was telegraphing his plays. But when he came back with the response that indicated that he did not know what you speak of, that was funny.

Doesn't Kubiak know the correct answer is: "We know and are working to correct that situation." Never let on that a fan knows more than you.

I don't care how much someone is paid or how much of an expert they are supposed to be at something, when you have tens of thousands of people (and that's a pretty conservative count) watching it all, some are going to see things they don't. That's why I don't think all the "Monday morning QBs" should always just be ignored based on the simple fact that they are not "experts." Just fans or not, it wouldn't hurt to listen to people like Vinnie and CloakNNNDagger sometimes. If I were a coach, I WOULD spend some time on these boards, just to see what's said and weigh it all in my mind. Thousands of opinions and advice for free. Take it or leave it.

GP
10-13-2008, 11:42 PM
I don't care how much someone is paid or how much of an expert they are supposed to be at something, when you have tens of thousands of people (and that's a pretty conservative count) watching it all, some are going to see things they don't. That's why I don't think all the "Monday morning QBs" should always just be ignored based on the simple fact that they are not "experts." Just fans or not, it wouldn't hurt to listen to people like Vinnie and CloakNNNDagger sometimes. If I were a coach, I WOULD spend some time on these boards, just to see what's said and weigh it all in my mind. Thousands of opinions and advice for free. Take it or leave it.

Exactly. Great post, HJam72.

The Pencil Neck
10-14-2008, 12:26 AM
If I were a coach, I WOULD spend some time on these boards, just to see what's said and weigh it all in my mind. Thousands of opinions and advice for free. Take it or leave it.

So would I... but I'd probably be concentrating more on the Babe of the Day thread...

Scooter
10-14-2008, 01:36 AM
edit.

BigBull17
10-14-2008, 07:13 AM
That may have been the single funniest moment in the NFL this season. It tops Turk's embarassing recovery of a fumble

Shows the QB has brains. That was one crazy cracker chasing him down. You stay in bounds with him unblocked with a full head of steam. That was probably the best thing that could have happened on that play.

Malloy
10-14-2008, 07:33 AM
you can order copies of games????
How???!


Until last season we in Europe could buy all game DVDs legally from a company in ... Switzerland I think. Last season that changed because they offered us the live stream.

I have 3 seasons of Texans games on DVD, 04, 05 and 06... I should be compensated by the Texans organization... or just throw them out and forget we ever had a QB called Carr... :)

utahmark
10-14-2008, 10:27 AM
I thought that it was rather amusing when there was a moment of silence on the phone and Kubes came back with how he was going to run to the game film.

My first thought was that these guys get paid a lot of money and already know he was telegraphing his plays. But when he came back with the response that indicated that he did not know what you speak of, that was funny.

Doesn't Kubiak know the correct answer is: "We know and are working to correct that situation." Never let on that a fan knows more than you.

where is this from. did he talk to him on a radio show or something?

infantrycak
10-14-2008, 02:11 PM
where is this from. did he talk to him on a radio show or something?

Kubiak is on 610 am from 5-6 pm each Monday. He said it then.

Runner
10-14-2008, 02:29 PM
How does everyone feel about this?
A) He's not telegraphing.
B) Great observation Vinny, but the coaches already knew it.
C) Vinny saw it? Why didn't the coaches or a Texans defensive player see this in games or at practice? Isn't anyone paying attention?
D) Great observation Vinny, but I don't care that the coaches didn't catch it. They can't be expected to see everything.

We may never know for sure, so we'll probably debate this among ourselves with no resolution.

HJam72
10-14-2008, 02:31 PM
How does everyone feel about this?
A) He's not telegraphing.
B) Great observation Vinny, but the coaches already knew it.
C) Vinny saw it? Why didn't the coaches or a Texans defensive player see this in games or at practice? Isn't anyone paying attention?
D) I don't care. In Kubes we trust.

We may never know for sure, so we'll probably debate this among ourselves with no resolution.

My answer is C, but I suspect that coaches around the league miss a lot of things that "experts" aren't supposed to miss.

Thorn
10-14-2008, 02:33 PM
How does everyone feel about this?
A) He's not telegraphing.
B) Great observation Vinny, but the coaches already knew it.
C) Vinny saw it? Why didn't the coaches or a Texans defensive player see this in games or at practice? Isn't anyone paying attention?
D) I don't care. In Kubes we trust.

We may never know for sure, so we'll probably debate this among ourselves with no resolution.

I don't normally notice things like this, but since the NFL network is replaying the game tonight, I'll try and see if I can see what everyone is talking about here.

eriadoc
10-14-2008, 02:46 PM
How does everyone feel about this?
A) He's not telegraphing.
B) Great observation Vinny, but the coaches already knew it.
C) Vinny saw it? Why didn't the coaches or a Texans defensive player see this in games or at practice? Isn't anyone paying attention?
D) Great observation Vinny, but I don't care that the coaches didn't catch it. They can't be expected to see everything.

We may never know for sure, so we'll probably debate this among ourselves with no resolution.

C., but I don't necessarily expect Kubiak to have caught that. I expect Gibbs and/or whatever other position coaches for the O-line to have caught it.

FWIW, they did the same thing last year, just not as repetitively as Brown.

Thorn
10-14-2008, 08:37 PM
I didn't remember to watch for this on all the plays, but what plays I did remember to look for, sure enough, he was doing it.

Mailman
10-14-2008, 09:17 PM
I DVRd the game and watched the first half again tonight. He's definitely doing it, but it mostly happened in obvious passing situations and/or empty backfield sets.

Isn't it possible that it's part of the offensive strategy? For example, when the Texans were in the red zone on the drive following Miami's first TD, Shanahak called two consecutive pass plays on first and second down. On first down, Brown showed run but Schaub took a two-step drop and fired it directly across the field to AJ and Andre promptly ran it for a seven-yard gain. On second down, Brown showed run again and pulled to the right while Schaub faked the handoff to Slaton. Porter was left unblocked as Schaub rolled out to the weak side. Andre was totally wide open but Schaub couldn't lead him with the pass, resulting in AJ bobbling the ball before it fell to the turf. The play should've been a touchdown.

Lucky
10-14-2008, 09:35 PM
How does everyone feel about this?


E) Brown was setting up the Dolphins all day long for the QB draw.

Brilliant!

The Pencil Neck
10-14-2008, 10:28 PM
Actually, I saw Winston doing it, too. On one pass play, Duane didn't do it and Eric did.

So... I think they've been coached to do it.

utahmark
10-15-2008, 12:39 PM
I DVRd the game and watched the first half again tonight. He's definitely doing it, but it mostly happened in obvious passing situations and/or empty backfield sets.

Isn't it possible that it's part of the offensive strategy? For example, when the Texans were in the red zone on the drive following Miami's first TD, Shanahak called two consecutive pass plays on first and second down. On first down, Brown showed run but Schaub took a two-step drop and fired it directly across the field to AJ and Andre promptly ran it for a seven-yard gain. On second down, Brown showed run again and pulled to the right while Schaub faked the handoff to Slaton. Porter was left unblocked as Schaub rolled out to the weak side. Andre was totally wide open but Schaub couldn't lead him with the pass, resulting in AJ bobbling the ball before it fell to the turf. The play should've been a touchdown.


i saw what you are talking about and it would make sense but the problem is around 90% of the time he is telegraphing our play. doesnt make sense to let another team know what your doing 90% of the time only trick them 3 or 4 times a game.

feebleminded
10-15-2008, 01:05 PM
The same thing was happening in the Colts game the week before and it wasn't corrected. I am sure some of it has to do with the where Freeney and Porter were lining up across the line of scrimmage, and him having 5 nfl starts under his belt.

Mailman
10-15-2008, 01:33 PM
i saw what you are talking about and it would make sense but the problem is around 90% of the time he is telegraphing our play. doesnt make sense to let another team know what your doing 90% of the time only trick them 3 or 4 times a game.

Actually, as I said earlier, he frequently did it with empty backfield sets or in obvious passing situations. I'm pretty sure this is actually part of the game plan.

Malloy
10-15-2008, 01:36 PM
i saw what you are talking about and it would make sense but the problem is around 90% of the time he is telegraphing our play. doesnt make sense to let another team know what your doing 90% of the time only trick them 3 or 4 times a game.

But it WORKED!

See, you can't argue with success!!




:sarcasm:

utahmark
10-15-2008, 04:28 PM
Actually, as I said earlier, he frequently did it with empty backfield sets or in obvious passing situations. I'm pretty sure this is actually part of the game plan.

i watched it as well. and most of the time you could predict what run or pass by how he was lining up. i dont think thats by design. could be i guess.

HJam72
10-15-2008, 04:50 PM
Well, we need to figure it out, so we'll know whether or not to go tell everybody on the rivals' boards. :user:

utahmark
10-15-2008, 04:54 PM
Well, we need to figure it out, so we'll know whether or not to go tell everybody on the rivals' boards. :user:

you would think they would understand how important it is for us to know.

Vinny
10-15-2008, 06:00 PM
Actually, as I said earlier, he frequently did it with empty backfield sets or in obvious passing situations. I'm pretty sure this is actually part of the game plan.
doubt it....this is basic football 101 stuff and he is the only player on the line doing this regularly. The DE has a decided advantage if he is pretty sure a pass is coming so I hope they address this. When you are in obvious passing situations its ok to set up high since most everyone assumes its a pass anyway....but not in normal down and distance situations.

Mailman
10-15-2008, 06:21 PM
doubt it....this is basic football 101 stuff and he is the only player on the line doing this regularly. The DE has a decided advantage if he is pretty sure a pass is coming so I hope they address this. When you are in obvious passing situations its ok to set up high since most everyone assumes its a pass anyway....but not in normal down and distance situations.

I'm watching it now and from what I've seen, this thread is much ado about nothing. This is almost certainly part of the scheme. He's not lining up in a two-point stance on some plays and a three-point stance on others for no reason other than poor fundamentals, and even if it were, his stance is so conspicuous that there's absolutely no way it went unnoticed by Alex Gibbs.

CloakNNNdagger
10-15-2008, 08:53 PM
I'm watching it now and from what I've seen, this thread is much ado about nothing. This is almost certainly part of the scheme. He's not lining up in a two-point stance on some plays and a three-point stance on others for no reason other than poor fundamentals, and even if it were, his stance is so conspicuous that there's absolutely no way it went unnoticed by Alex Gibbs.

Yep, just like fumbles and interceptions are part of "The Grand Scheme." BTW, those also don't go unnoticed by Alex Gibbs.

Mailman
10-15-2008, 09:35 PM
Yep, just like fumbles and interceptions are part of "The Grand Scheme." BTW, those also don't go unnoticed by Alex Gibbs.

Do you seriously think he's not being told to do this? Do you really think that Chester Pitts didn't notice that the rookie LT didn't have a hand on the ground? I mean, isn't it possible that they wanted him in a two-point stance on many of those passing plays so that he wouldn't get beat to the edge?

There were multiple running plays where he was in a two-point stance and multiple passing plays where he was in a three-point stance. I highly doubt he's "telegraphing" anything they don't want him to telegraph.

The Pencil Neck
10-15-2008, 10:48 PM
Do you seriously think he's not being told to do this? Do you really think that Chester Pitts didn't notice that the rookie LT didn't have a hand on the ground? I mean, isn't it possible that they wanted him in a two-point stance on many of those passing plays so that he wouldn't get beat to the edge?

There were multiple running plays where he was in a two-point stance and multiple passing plays where he was in a three-point stance. I highly doubt he's "telegraphing" anything they don't want him to telegraph.

And like I said, BOTH tackles are doing it. At some times, one guy is down and the other is up. At other times, both are up and down.

I'll look through the game and tally up how many instances of each I can see.

The Pencil Neck
10-15-2008, 11:54 PM
OK, so I just ran the game back.

Duane Brown was in a 2 point stance on pass plays 89% of the time. He was in a 3 point stance on running plays 84% of the time.

Winston, otoh, was in 2 point stance on pass plays 63% of the time and he was in 3 point stance on running plays 44% of the time.

So, yeah, it's a tell. If Brown was down and Winston was up, it was a running play 85% of the time. If Brown was up and Winston was down, it was a pass play 93% of the time. If they were both down in 3 point stance, it was a run 77% of the time. If they were both up in 2 point stance, it was a pass play 90% of the time... but that includes a lot of passes in obvious passing situations. The number of times they were both in 2 point stance rose sharply in the 2-minute drill and in 3rd and long situations.

buddyboy
10-16-2008, 01:32 AM
OK, so I just ran the game back.

Duane Brown was in a 2 point stance on pass plays 89% of the time. He was in a 3 point stance on running plays 84% of the time.

Winston, otoh, was in 2 point stance on pass plays 63% of the time and he was in 3 point stance on running plays 44% of the time.

So, yeah, it's a tell. If Brown was down and Winston was up, it was a running play 85% of the time. If Brown was up and Winston was down, it was a pass play 93% of the time. If they were both down in 3 point stance, it was a run 77% of the time. If they were both up in 2 point stance, it was a pass play 90% of the time... but that includes a lot of passes in obvious passing situations. The number of times they were both in 2 point stance rose sharply in the 2-minute drill and in 3rd and long situations.

Thanks for the breakdown. I'm guessing that since both of them are doing it, it is part of the scheme. Now whether or not we agree with that scheme is a different story all together.

Another thing I was thinking when I read this was that maybe we are trying to be the team that makes the statement "Yeah, we're gonna run, try and stop us", but with the ZBS, that seems unlikely.

I wonder how often we'll line them up in 3 pt stances and go PA...

CloakNNNdagger
10-16-2008, 07:41 AM
OK, so I just ran the game back.

Duane Brown was in a 2 point stance on pass plays 89% of the time. He was in a 3 point stance on running plays 84% of the time.

Winston, otoh, was in 2 point stance on pass plays 63% of the time and he was in 3 point stance on running plays 44% of the time.

So, yeah, it's a tell. If Brown was down and Winston was up, it was a running play 85% of the time. If Brown was up and Winston was down, it was a pass play 93% of the time. If they were both down in 3 point stance, it was a run 77% of the time. If they were both up in 2 point stance, it was a pass play 90% of the time... but that includes a lot of passes in obvious passing situations. The number of times they were both in 2 point stance rose sharply in the 2-minute drill and in 3rd and long situations.


When I posed the situation to Kubiak on 610, he said that he would have to take a good look at "that" in film........that they freely let Brown choose whatever stance he feels comfortable with from play to play.

HJam72
10-16-2008, 08:05 AM
When I posed the situation to Kubiak on 610, he said that he would have to take a good look at "that" in film........that they freely let Brown choose whatever stance he feels comfortable with from play to play.

Oopsie. :specnatz:

GP
10-16-2008, 10:16 AM
OK, so I just ran the game back.

Duane Brown was in a 2 point stance on pass plays 89% of the time. He was in a 3 point stance on running plays 84% of the time.

Winston, otoh, was in 2 point stance on pass plays 63% of the time and he was in 3 point stance on running plays 44% of the time.

So, yeah, it's a tell. If Brown was down and Winston was up, it was a running play 85% of the time. If Brown was up and Winston was down, it was a pass play 93% of the time. If they were both down in 3 point stance, it was a run 77% of the time. If they were both up in 2 point stance, it was a pass play 90% of the time... but that includes a lot of passes in obvious passing situations. The number of times they were both in 2 point stance rose sharply in the 2-minute drill and in 3rd and long situations.

tried to rep you, but gotta' spread it around first.

that is awesome analysis.

kubiak needs to get this fixed, regardless of if he's trying to let them choose what stance they are in. A tell is a tell. And not fixing this is, IMO, a HUGE black eye on the reputation of Kubiak as a HC--This is the kind of stuff that is easily fixed, but out of pure stubborness...it probably won't be.

The Pencil Neck
10-16-2008, 10:17 AM
When I posed the situation to Kubiak on 610, he said that he would have to take a good look at "that" in film........that they freely let Brown choose whatever stance he feels comfortable with from play to play.

They may want to reconsider that choice.

Polo
10-16-2008, 10:26 AM
I don't think it's all that big of a deal. He just needs to mix it up a little more.

If it's an obvious passing situation I'd like for him to always be in a two point stance.

CloakNNNdagger
10-16-2008, 11:04 AM
I don't think it's all that big of a deal. He just needs to mix it up a little more.

If it's an obvious passing situation I'd like for him to always be in a two point stance.


When you're run blocking, especially with cut blocking, you want to be lower. When you're pass blocking, you want more upright leverage control of your man. But both should be born from similar stances, or at least randomized stances, except maybe in "obvious" pass plays. It could be that Brown initially is more easily pushed off the pass block, not being able to become more upright in time to not be knocked off the block. Either way, if not corrected, it IS a big deal, whether it's an uncorrected pattern......or, worse yet, a weakness in Brown's technique.

Polo
10-16-2008, 11:12 AM
When you're run blocking, especially with cut blocking, you want to be lower. When you're pass blocking, you want more upright leverage control of your man. But both should be born from similar stances, or at least randomized stances, except maybe in "obvious" pass plays. It could be that Brown initially is more easily pushed off the pass block, not being able to become more upright in time to not be knocked off the block. Either way, if not corrected, it IS a big deal, whether it's an uncorrected pattern......or worse yet a weakness in Brown's technique.

Wrong. Wrong. and Wrong.

Being in a two point stance on passing plays helps when going against speed rushers because it helps you get your kick-slide started quicker. Instead of having to pop up and kick slide, all you have to do is start your kick-slide.

Being in a three point stance on a running play just allows you to come off the ball harder because you can put a little weight on your hand. Leverage isn't a major factor in choosing a stance in the ZBS.

And I stll don't think it's all that big of a problem. All he needs to do is just learn to mix it up a little more. Not a huge deal.

utahmark
10-16-2008, 11:28 AM
Wrong. Wrong. and Wrong.

Being in a two point stance on passing plays helps when going against speed rushers because it helps you get your kick-slide started quicker. Instead of having to pop up and kick slide, all you have to do is start your kick-slide.

Being in a three point stance on a running play just allows you to come off the ball harder because you can put a little weight on your hand.

And I stll don't think it's all that big of a problem. All he needs to do is just learn to mix it up a little more. Not a huge deal.

you told him he was wrong. but you agree with everything he said.

Polo
10-16-2008, 11:32 AM
you told him he was wrong. but you agree with everything he said.

No...I didn't...

disaacks3
10-16-2008, 11:57 AM
When you're run blocking, especially with cut blocking, you want to be lower. When you're pass blocking, you want more upright leverage control of your man. But both should be born from similar stances, or at least randomized stances, except maybe in "obvious" pass plays. It could be that Brown initially is more easily pushed off the pass block, not being able to become more upright in time to not be knocked off the block. Either way, if not corrected, it IS a big deal, whether it's an uncorrected pattern......or, worse yet, a weakness in Brown's technique.

Wrong. Wrong. and Wrong.

Being in a two point stance on passing plays helps when going against speed rushers because it helps you get your kick-slide started quicker. Instead of having to pop up and kick slide, all you have to do is start your kick-slide.

Being in a three point stance on a running play just allows you to come off the ball harder because you can put a little weight on your hand. Leverage isn't a major factor in choosing a stance in the ZBS.

And I stll don't think it's all that big of a problem. All he needs to do is just learn to mix it up a little more. Not a huge deal.

Forget the physical analysis of how leverage is achieved / used differently in ZBS vs. Passing. If the other team can reliably tell what kind of play is coming by focusing on 1-2 guys, you have a HUGE problem. Kubes' "explanation" doesn't make me feel any better either.

Polo
10-16-2008, 11:59 AM
Forget the physical analysis of how leverage is achieved / used differently in ZBS vs. Passing. If the other team can reliably tell what kind of play is coming by focusing on 1-2 guys, you have a HUGE problem. Kubes' "explanation" doesn't make me feel any better either.

We can all just agree to disagree....
That's cool...

I've actually experienced this exact situation (not on an NFL level, but on a highschool & DI level) first hand and it wasn't that big a deal..For a number of reasons....If it helps the opposition at all it will only be the one player lined up across from Brown...Other players are too busy focusing on their assignments and pre-snap reads to be looking at Duane Brown...As fans sitting in the stands/ using our Tivo's we can afford that luxury.....By the time the offense is in their stances the coaching staff can't really say anything to the players on the field...Since some of those passing plays are play action if the defense see's him in a three point stance and guesses run that will actually help us....And since he's not doing one or the other 100% of the time the defenders know in the back of their heads that it's still a possibility they could guess wrong and give up a huge play...Play your assignments, or gamble ? Worth the risk ? With all these factors in mind, I say it's not that big of a deal...

I doubt Kubes says much of anything at all...If he does say something it will probably be 'Mix it up a little'...problem solved...

CloakNNNdagger
10-16-2008, 12:32 PM
you told him he was wrong. but you agree with everything he said.

Thank you.:aggressive:

CloakNNNdagger
10-16-2008, 12:33 PM
Forget the physical analysis of how leverage is achieved / used differently in ZBS vs. Passing. If the other team can reliably tell what kind of play is coming by focusing on 1-2 guys, you have a HUGE problem. Kubes' "explanation" doesn't make me feel any better either.

Like I said, either way it is a big deal.

leebigeztx
10-16-2008, 12:49 PM
Maybe I'm just old school, but I like the 80's way when all lineman had to be in the 3pt stance. Also if I knew I was in 3rd and long, I might be inclined to go unbalanced lline and stick salaam next to brown and go 3 wide. Now in the nfl, 3rd and long is anything 6yds or more. I can go 6 lineman , daniels,johnson,walters and have the rb checck with me after the wr's clear out.Daniels can Y flex out make it look like 3 wide set or 11 personel.

Sideline
10-16-2008, 06:13 PM
you can order copies of games????
How???!

I'm in England and as I don't get the Texans live on TV every week I get my games ordered from Europe every week as was previously mentioned, they always arrive to me by Wednesday. Its great for displaced fans like myself.

Mailman
10-16-2008, 06:34 PM
Like I said, either way it is a big deal.

Brown is holding his own against veteran DEs and the offense is moving the ball and gaining plenty of yardage. I'm with Polo...it's not that big of a deal.

Vinny
10-17-2008, 09:28 AM
Brown is holding his own against veteran DEs and the offense is moving the ball and gaining plenty of yardage. I'm with Polo...it's not that big of a deal.Brown got lit up by Joey Porter this weekend and gettin lit up is indeed a big deal. Perhaps if Porter didn't have someone telling him that a pass was coming, that would have helped Brown last Sunday. There is a reason teams huddle up and don't send their plays in with a bullhorn.

Polo
10-17-2008, 09:55 AM
Brown got lit up by Joey Porter this weekend and gettin lit up is indeed a big deal. Perhaps if Porter didn't have someone telling him that a pass was coming, that would have helped Brown last Sunday. There is a reason teams huddle up and don't send their plays in with a bullhorn.

Pretty sure there are lots of other viable reasons for him having trouble with Porter.

Like......The fact that he's had trouble with all of the OLB's in a 3-4 that we've faced....

Dallas, Pittsburg, Miami.

Pretty sure he has a problem with speed rushers from that spot.

Vinny
10-17-2008, 09:59 AM
sure there was but why declare your intentions on normal down and distance situations? Just isn't smart. You like to argue just to argue sometimes so this is all I'll say on this topic. I hope they correct it and on to the Lions.