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El Tejano
10-09-2008, 10:35 AM
You know people forget that we were up 27-10 and had Indy with 4th and 7 @ our 8 yard line. At that point a stop there and we win that game. Of course in a situation like that, our defense gives up a TD.

Now I know we can talk about how well the defense did all day long in that situation but Sage did well all day as well, before all hell broke loose.

Polo
10-09-2008, 10:39 AM
When our defense holds Indy to 10 points for most of the game after giving up those 10 almost immediately and then makes Indy work like crazy and making them go all the way to their last down just to score 17 I'm not going to complain.

HoustonFrog
10-09-2008, 10:46 AM
I just have to say it because it has been eating at me.

SAGE effed up

Listen, I don't care if we were up 27-0 and he was 30 of 30 for 400 yards and 3 TDS. The fact remains that 3 turnovers were on his watch and he lost the game. QBs aren't ranked or held to standards consisting of 3 quarters and then some bad minutes. They are held to a standard of full games. So you can't take 56 minutes and just act like that is how he plays. You take the full 60. Just like the Titans game last year. People were like..."did you see Sage bring us back?" Yeah he had thrown something like 4 interceptions to get us in the hole to start. It all counts. With his good comes many turnovers.

The defense did what they had to do against a good team. One person didn't/

Whew..I feel better :)

Double Barrel
10-09-2008, 10:48 AM
I was going with the same point Polo made. I have no problems with our defensive effort last Sunday. Holding the Colts to 10 points until late in the game is indicative of a unit that is coming together. I can't be upset in any way with their last game. Hopefully they extend it forward against Miami.

Sage is the sole reason we lost that game.

Texan_Bill
10-09-2008, 10:52 AM
I am as critical of our defense as anyone and the fact that they can't stop anyone... Also, I am not big on pinning a loss on any one player.

With that said, the defense played well and I blame Sage and only Sage.

Mr teX
10-09-2008, 11:28 AM
It boggles my mind that people refuse to accept that sage f%$#-ed up....

The loss is squarely on him not:

Kubiak, b/c obviously he doesn't go out there & play & 2, b/c on the helicopter spin play at least, the initial play kubes called was wide open, Sage just made the wrong decision & tried to be bob beamon instead of sliding or running out of bounds.

The defense: simply b/c if u asked any defensive person in the league if they'd be happy with limiting any offense to 10 points much less the colts, for 56 min on any given sunday, they'd say yes.

the o-line - sage was barely touched the entire game & on his 2nd fumble he just held the ball too long, you're outside of the pocket sage either run or throw it out of bounds!!!!! Plus, you were flushed out of the pocket for a reason, you've got to have more awareness & know that they're still coming after you!!!

they played a helluva game until he started screwing up..end of story, period.

El Tejano
10-09-2008, 11:54 AM
Sorry, I failed to put the disclaimer that I'm not defending Sage. I just want to look at the team as whole. I do agree that Sage's mistakes made this happen. I just wanted to get everyone's perspective and to bring that up.

BigBull17
10-09-2008, 12:24 PM
Also, the drive took 4 1/2 minutes of clock. The D forced them to drive, with out letting them to get out of bounds. One hell of an effort, though, Id like us to stop 1 4th down

Silver Oak
10-09-2008, 12:55 PM
to play good defense most of the game, but to turn to swiss cheese when it really matters is almost as bad as what Sage did.

at least Sage was trying hard to win...for that I can't fault him. I still place the blame at his feet, but if the D had held one more time, perhaps Sage wouldn't have felt the need to try and make the miracle play he tried to make?

I dunno. It's a new week as far as I'm concerned, and I can only hope the team has put Indy behind them and that they're focused on Miami now.

RipTraxx
10-09-2008, 01:03 PM
If anyone watches inside the NFL on showtime.

Cris Collinsworth first stated how he thought sage blew the game. THEN he went back and re-watched the game and corrects himself to say that sage was playing lights out football.

Take his opinion as you want, but b/w him and Mark Schlareth on ESPN i say they're the best.

rdroppa
10-09-2008, 01:10 PM
OK, he screwed up but here is a guy who has trying to get the starting job for how long? The helicopter jump showed more heart then I've seen from Schaub in 2 seasons. The real screw up was the next series when he did not protect the rock. I say start him again....he can only get better !!!!!

Goldensilence
10-09-2008, 01:10 PM
If anyone watches inside the NFL on showtime.

Cris Collinsworth first stated how he thought sage blew the game. THEN he went back and re-watched the game and corrects himself to say that sage was playing lights out football.

Take his opinion as you want, but b/w him and Mark Schlareth on ESPN i say they're the best.

56 minutes maybe of "lights out" football. Thanks but no thanks I'll take 60 minutes of solid football then 56 of "lights out" in Collinsworth's world.

OK, he screwed up but here is a guy who has trying to get the starting job for how long? The helicopter jump showed more heart then I've seen from Schaub in 2 seasons. The real screw up was the next series when he did not protect the rock. I say start him again....he can only get better !!!!!

Yeah he can only get better after such a historic collapse.Keep those expectations low!

HoustonFrog
10-09-2008, 01:10 PM
to play good defense most of the game, but to turn to swiss cheese when it really matters is almost as bad as what Sage did.
at least Sage was trying hard to win...for that I can't fault him. I still place the blame at his feet, but if the D had held one more time, perhaps Sage wouldn't have felt the need to try and make the miracle play he tried to make?

I dunno. It's a new week as far as I'm concerned, and I can only hope the team has put Indy behind them and that they're focused on Miami now.

Turn into swiss cheese? The Colts went on a 4 minute drive or something. It was still a 10 point game and we got the onsides kick. You can't exactly give a team like the Colts a short field and no field at all after battling all game. One guy lost it.

OK, he screwed up but here is a guy who has trying to get the starting job for how long? The helicopter jump showed more heart then I've seen from Schaub in 2 seasons. The real screw up was the next series when he did not protect the rock. I say start him again....he can only get better !!!!!

That makes no sense. Last season Schaub was playing like his 3rd and 4th start with pretty much bum legs and he fught threw it. I can't believe the excuses. Diving in the air isn't ballsy, it is stupid and it blew a game.
56 minutes maybe of "lights out" football. Thanks but no thanks I'll take 60 minutes of solid football then 56 of "lights out" in Collinsworth's world.

Thanks for saying it. As I said above you can't compartmentalize it. Thats like discounting a bad 2nd quarter where the opponent took a 21 pt lead but saying they were great besides it. NO, you aren't great. Great is a full 60 minutes.

Hooston Texan
10-09-2008, 01:21 PM
to play good defense most of the game, but to turn to swiss cheese when it really matters is almost as bad as what Sage did.

at least Sage was trying hard to win...for that I can't fault him. I still place the blame at his feet, but if the D had held one more time, perhaps Sage wouldn't have felt the need to try and make the miracle play he tried to make?

I dunno. It's a new week as far as I'm concerned, and I can only hope the team has put Indy behind them and that they're focused on Miami now.

"Swiss cheese?" Are you kidding? The defense gave up one drive of consequence after the first quarter--when they were up by 17 and the objective was to make the Colts eat clock. Obviously, the better result would have been a stop, but Peyton Manning is Peyton Manning for a reason. Still, the D forced to Colts to burn half of the remaining clock (8:11 down to 4:04) to get the tying TD. (Aside on that tying TD: get used to hating Tom Santi. When the Colts got him in the 7th round, I groaned. He is perfect for them--if Dallas Clark demands too much money, the Colts can now let him walk without missing a beat.)

To say the least, the D bears no responsibility for the Rosencopter play.

The last TD: I can't put too much blame on a unit that was asked to hold Indy scoreless from their own 20. At the time, I was thinking that a quick Colt score was the only chance we had to pull the game out. Of course, that could only happen if a certain QB decided not to finish the turnover trifecta. We know what happened there.

If our defense plays the way they played against Indy--fourth quarter included--this team is going to rack up a lot of wins. A lot.

beerlover
10-09-2008, 01:49 PM
I'll tell you what the problem is-

Its' been too long since the Texans have had a regular season game @ home (DEC 30 2007). thats about three weeks short of 10 freaking long months!!!!

From watching the playoffs (teams playing we know that we should beat like Indy, Tennessee & Jacksonville) thru the Superbowl (a Giant team out of nowhere the Texans went up there just a couple years ago & beat) through the Combine workouts, Mock Drafts & Draft to Off season free agency, mini/training camps, pre-season now regular season that IKE spoils (scheduled home opener) to 4 games into the regular season & it all rests on Sage Rosenfels broad shoulders?

People need to calm down, realize where we've been & smell the coffee before tearing someone a new _______ :coffee:

Regardless the outcome I saw a man out there giving 110% trying to help his team win, frustrating as that turned out :brickwall: in the end I'm not going to bash that effort or harp on what might have been because its in the books & we have our 2nd game in 9 months/two weeks coming up this Sunday @ Relient :texflag:

HoustonFrog
10-09-2008, 01:58 PM
I'll tell you what the problem is-

Its' been too long since the Texans have had a regular season game @ home (DEC 30 2007). thats about three weeks short of 10 freaking long months!!!!

From watching the playoffs (teams playing we know that we should beat like Indy, Tennessee & Jacksonville) thru the Superbowl (a Giant team out of nowhere the Texans went up there just a couple years ago & beat) through the Combine workouts, Mock Drafts & Draft to Off season free agency, mini/training camps, pre-season now regular season that IKE spoils (scheduled home opener) to 4 games into the regular season & it all rests on Sage Rosenfels broad shoulders?

People need to calm down, realize where we've been & smell the coffee before tearing someone a new _______ :coffee:

Regardless the outcome I saw a man out there giving 110% trying to help his team win, frustrating as that turned out :brickwall: in the end I'm not going to bash that effort or harp on what might have been because its in the books & we have our 2nd game in 9 months/two weeks coming up this Sunday @ Relient :texflag:

Here is my problem. With the exception of some players that might jake it...aren't all QBs we have "giving their all?" I just don't get the excuses because the guy is nice and played well for awhile. Schaub had 300 and 3 TDs with no turnovers and didn't get a win and people weren't exactly feeling sorry for him. My point is, turnovers equalled loss. End of story. You are right, it happened. If this is the mentality then give all these guys a break...but it won't happen. I just don't get why he is deserving of excuses. We should just support the team and move forward with who is playing...probably your point.

Mr teX
10-09-2008, 02:00 PM
If anyone watches inside the NFL on showtime.

Cris Collinsworth first stated how he thought sage blew the game. THEN he went back and re-watched the game and corrects himself to say that sage was playing lights out football.

Take his opinion as you want, but b/w him and Mark Schlareth on ESPN i say they're the best.

i normally like Collinsworth but he's wrong here. there's a reason it's never happened & that's b/c You have to try really hard to lose a game like we did.

Texan_Bill
10-09-2008, 02:01 PM
START SAGE!!!

:worm:

HoustonFrog
10-09-2008, 02:08 PM
:stirpot:START SAGE!!!

:worm:

TB:stirpot:

Runner
10-09-2008, 02:27 PM
Sage deserves some kind of award from his teammates. Not only did he lose the Indy game for the team, he did it with such spectacular style that he has become a target of the focused wrath of the fan base. He makes the perfect scapegoat so everyone can forget the other three teams the Texans lost to through various combinations of apathy, ineptness, and stupidity.

ObsiWan
10-09-2008, 02:30 PM
I'll tell you what the problem is-

Its' been too long since the Texans have had a regular season game @ home (DEC 30 2007). thats about three weeks short of 10 freaking long months!!!!

From watching the playoffs (teams playing we know that we should beat like Indy, Tennessee & Jacksonville) thru the Superbowl (a Giant team out of nowhere the Texans went up there just a couple years ago & beat) through the Combine workouts, Mock Drafts & Draft to Off season free agency, mini/training camps, pre-season now regular season that IKE spoils (scheduled home opener) to 4 games into the regular season & it all rests on Sage Rosenfels broad shoulders?

People need to calm down, realize where we've been & smell the coffee before tearing someone a new _______ :coffee:

Regardless the outcome I saw a man out there giving 110% trying to help his team win, frustrating as that turned out :brickwall: in the end I'm not going to bash that effort or harp on what might have been because its in the books & we have our 2nd game in 9 months/two weeks coming up this Sunday @ Relient :texflag:

that's not what I saw.
I saw an 8-yr veteran QB making Jacoby Jones-type, pre-season-level, brain-fart mistakes.
Inexcusable.
If we were trying to come from behind, I would give him some slack. Maybe even applaud his efforts.

But we were not behind; we had a double-digit lead.

And we would have been in Kris Brown's FG range even if he doesn't make the first down. All he has to do is get the ball inside the 35 - which he had done - before he decided to take "The Dive".

I'm sorry. I cannot excuse that magnitude of brain fart from an 8-yr QB who claims he's ready to lead his own team.
I just can't.

Forgive him, sure. He's human. (I don't guess he's on the take)
But excuse it.
Nope.

Second Honeymoon
10-09-2008, 02:42 PM
I was going with the same point Polo made. I have no problems with our defensive effort last Sunday. Holding the Colts to 10 points until late in the game is indicative of a unit that is coming together. I can't be upset in any way with their last game. Hopefully they extend it forward against Miami.

Sage is the sole reason we lost that game.

For the first time this season, Okoye was pretty consistently getting involved in the pass rush and beating his matchup. That was the biggest difference for the most part. It helps the whole line when we can get a push and get our hands up. Lord knows Travis can't do it. He has like one sack in 6 years....Derrick Johnson would look really good in a Texans uniform right about now but we had to reach on TJ. Thanks Casserley.

Runner
10-09-2008, 02:44 PM
that's not what I saw.
I saw an 8-yr veteran QB making Jacoby Jones-type, pre-season-level, brain-fart mistakes.



Jacoby Jones? Who's that?

beerlover
10-09-2008, 03:44 PM
For the first time this season, Okoye was pretty consistently getting involved in the pass rush and beating his matchup. That was the biggest difference for the most part. It helps the whole line when we can get a push and get our hands up. Lord knows Travis can't do it. He has like one sack in 6 years....Derrick Johnson would look really good in a Texans uniform right about now but we had to reach on TJ. Thanks Casserley.

theres another happy memory :photos:

rush2112mn
10-09-2008, 04:47 PM
Blame game.....hmm.....I think dissapointed is more of it than blame for me. I expected Sage to slide instead of head first. Head first is asking for trouble.....Didn't we have a Astros player out at Texans practice a few years ago to work on slides with that guy Carr.....maybe I am wrong on that.....
I also was dissapointed in not stoping the Colts on that 4th down.

Polo
10-09-2008, 04:49 PM
I also was dissapointed in not stoping the Colts on that 4th down.

I didn't like the fact that we didn't stop them on fourth down either...

But if someone asked me if I'd take that exact same defensive performance against the Colts next time we played them I'd say yes, and please sign me up for a 10 yr subscription...

Bull Pen 1
10-09-2008, 10:11 PM
I just have to say it because it has been eating at me.

SAGE effed up

Listen, I don't care if we were up 27-0 and he was 30 of 30 for 400 yards and 3 TDS. The fact remains that 3 turnovers were on his watch and he lost the game. QBs aren't ranked or held to standards consisting of 3 quarters and then some bad minutes. They are held to a standard of full games. So you can't take 56 minutes and just act like that is how he plays. You take the full 60. Just like the Titans game last year. People were like..."did you see Sage bring us back?" Yeah he had thrown something like 4 interceptions to get us in the hole to start. It all counts. With his good comes many turnovers.

The defense did what they had to do against a good team. One person didn't/

Whew..I feel better :)

Sage record as a starter 4 - 2

Matt as a starter 4 - 13

So Sage screwed up twice and Matt screwed uo 13 times, so who is the better qb.

Bull Pen 1
10-09-2008, 10:27 PM
Actually I wounder why Coach K didn't take Sage out of the game after the helo hit. Just like I woundered why he didn't take Matt out during the Stellers game after that big hit. I'm sure both hits affected both qb's

I'm still in favor of Sage over Matt even though I agree we lost the game because of the helo hit and the 2 after turnovers, that Sage gave up.

Sage is 4 - 2 as a starter:kingkong:

Matt is 4 - 13 or 14 as a starter.:gun:


Go ahead fire away.

BigBull17
10-10-2008, 08:13 AM
This is amazing. Sage goes Carr on the field, and people say "at least he gave effort"...? WTF! He played a good game, but that doesnt excuse single handedly giving the Colts the game. If it was Schuab, you would be calling for an execution. He did things a QB cant do. And he got away with a few throws and reaching the ball out. Its unbelievable that people still want this guy to start

beerlover
10-10-2008, 11:16 AM
Sage Rosenfels is trying to move past last Sundayís loss to Indy, specifically the three turnovers he committed that cost Houston the game in the final minutes.

ďI reread it probably 1,000 times in my mind,Ē Rosefels said. ďAgain, thatís not going to do me any good really for this week other than obviously what Iíd do differently next time. So Iím trying not to dwell on it. Iím trying to move on. I think this team is ready to move on and have another game.Ē

Hope y'all feel better now :wild: nobody feels worse than Sage, nobody :aggressive:

Runner
10-10-2008, 11:30 AM
Sage Rosenfels is trying to move past last Sundayís loss to Indy, specifically the three turnovers he committed that cost Houston the game in the final minutes.

ďI reread it probably 1,000 times in my mind,Ē Rosefels said. ďAgain, thatís not going to do me any good really for this week other than obviously what Iíd do differently next time. So Iím trying not to dwell on it. Iím trying to move on. I think this team is ready to move on and have another game.Ē

Hope y'all feel better now :wild: nobody feels worse than Sage, nobody :aggressive:

Well, if any fan feels worse about it than Sage, I suggest investigating some others of life's opportunities outside of watching Texans football.

HoustonFrog
10-13-2008, 11:05 AM
Sage record as a starter 4 - 2

Matt as a starter 4 - 13

So Sage screwed up twice and Matt screwed uo 13 times, so who is the better qb.

Sorry to bump this but I was out of town and had to respond. This is purely assinine. Did you even look at the stats of what Schaub did in some of those losses. This is the VY mentality of only wins count. Please stop.

FILO_girl
10-13-2008, 01:30 PM
Sage record as a starter 4 - 2

Matt as a starter 4 - 13

So Sage screwed up twice and Matt screwed uo 13 times, so who is the better qb.

:fans:
I'm with ya, Preston.

Hervoyel
10-13-2008, 01:56 PM
:fans:
I'm with ya, Preston.

I would be too but it's just not that simple.

b0ng
10-13-2008, 02:01 PM
Actually I wounder why Coach K didn't take Sage out of the game after the helo hit. Just like I woundered why he didn't take Matt out during the Stellers game after that big hit. I'm sure both hits affected both qb's

I'm still in favor of Sage over Matt even though I agree we lost the game because of the helo hit and the 2 after turnovers, that Sage gave up.

Sage is 4 - 2 as a starter:kingkong:

Matt is 4 - 13 or 14 as a starter.:gun:


Go ahead fire away.

Counter-point:

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/9930/600xpopupgalleryom7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/600xpopupgalleryom7.jpg/1/w394.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img527/600xpopupgalleryom7.jpg/1/)

OR

http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/2593/600xpopupgallerybp9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/600xpopupgallerybp9.jpg/1/w565.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img384/600xpopupgallerybp9.jpg/1/)

You decide.

HoustonFrog
10-13-2008, 02:05 PM
I would be too but it's just not that simple.

It isn't at all.

Look at the loss against Jacksonville. What did Schaub do wrong?Nothing. But its a W. It happens every day on bad to mediocre teams. Look at VY last year..playoff team with horrible QB stats. It didn't make him a better QB than others out there. Ws are a process of TEAM..defense, special teams, etc. Not QB in general...unless you turn it over 3 times straight to lose a game. People making the record argument are just being too simplistic and not understanding the game.

With all that said, I'm not sold that either is stud calliber. But Schaub has been finishing games lately.

FILO_girl
10-13-2008, 02:24 PM
It isn't at all.
With all that said, I'm not sold that either is stud calliber..

True that, its sorta 'lesser of the two evils' mentality.
We just don't agree who is the lesser...
:)