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View Full Version : Culture of Losing is ingrained with the Texans and needs to be exorcised


TexansFight
10-06-2008, 10:33 AM
I want a new HC for the Texans. From what I have seen, Kubiak is in the bottom 5 of NFL head coaches when you grade everything from game plans, motivating the team, in game adjustments, and clock management.

However, getting a new HC is not enough. We need to hire a guy that will eradicate the culture of losing here. That is not an easy thing to do. My preference would be to get a proven winner here like Marty Schottenheimer or Bill Cowher to turn our program around. Marty in particular has won everywhere he has gone. Guys like that and Parcells demand accountability, command respect immediately, and players buy-in because of what they have done in the past.

We are not in a position to afford to pin our hopes on another first time coach or recycled also-ran. We need a coach who can instill a philosophy of what kind of team they want and actually implement that plan.

Changing a loser program into a winner is hard. Tampa turned it around with the brilliance of Tony Dungy. Say what you will about Jerry Glanville, but he restored pride in our team and made us into a hard hitting team that teams didn't want to play especially in the House of Pain. We desperately need that here.

Just look at what Parcells and his protege Sparano are doing in Miami. Mike Smith who is a first time coach has brought toughness to the Falcons and they are friggin 3-2 with a rookie QB. We need a winner here in Houston to lead us out of the abyss.

utahmark
10-06-2008, 10:41 AM
I want a new HC for the Texans. From what I have seen, Kubiak is in the bottom 5 of NFL head coaches when you grade everything from game plans, motivating the team, in game adjustments, and clock management.

However, getting a new HC is not enough. We need to hire a guy that will eradicate the culture of losing here. That is not an easy thing to do. My preference would be to get a proven winner here like Marty Schottenheimer or Bill Cowher to turn our program around. Marty in particular has won everywhere he has gone. Guys like that and Parcells demand accountability, command respect immediately, and players buy-in because of what they have done in the past.

We are not in a position to afford to pin our hopes on another first time coach or recycled also-ran. We need a coach who can instill a philosophy of what kind of team they want and actually implement that plan.

Changing a loser program into a winner is hard. Tampa turned it around with the brilliance of Tony Dungy. Say what you will about Jerry Glanville, but he restored pride in our team and made us into a hard hitting team that teams didn't want to play especially in the House of Pain. We desperately need that here.

Just look at what Parcells and his protege Sparano are doing in Miami. Mike Smith who is a first time coach has brought toughness to the Falcons and they are friggin 3-2 with a rookie QB. We need a winner here in Houston to lead us out of the abyss.


i think both those guys were first time coaches.

HJam72
10-06-2008, 10:43 AM
This loss was on Sage Rosenfels. I know the coach should have chewed his butt out for stretching out with the ball THE FIRST TIME, but who would have thought Sage was so stupid? I also know that the coach had some major screwups prior to this game, but Sage could have made us all forget about that just by holding on to the ball, falling down, whatever. The whole team played their guts out all day, except for one player who experienced retardation. Must be why Kubes didn't want to start Rosentard in the first place. We blame Kubiak when they are flat and he deserves a lot of credit for how they played yesterday. I haven't even been mad at Richard Smith for a couple of weeks.

Long story short: I know Kubiak deserves all this anger, but I still think he's gonna pull it out. This team will start winning games soon, and next year will be good. It will. I know that sounds like the same old "next year" stuff, but it will.

jaayteetx
10-06-2008, 10:43 AM
ya kinda contradicting yourself there, but a change in attitude is needed

Double Barrel
10-06-2008, 10:45 AM
I'm not on the Fire Kubiak bandwagon, but I do have to wonder why he called a bootleg instead of just running the ball to eat some clock and force Indy into using their last timeout.

utahmark
10-06-2008, 10:51 AM
This loss was on Sage Rosenfels. I know the coach should have chewed his butt out for stretching out with the ball THE FIRST TIME, but who would have thought Sage was so stupid? I also know that the coach had some major screwups prior to this game, but Sage could have made us all forget about that just by holding on to the ball, falling down, whatever. The whole team played their guts out all day, except for one player who experienced retardation. Must be why Kubes didn't want to start Rosentard in the first place. We blame Kubiak when they are flat and he deserves a lot of credit for how they played yesterday. I haven't even been mad at Richard Smith for a couple of weeks.

Long story short: I know Kubiak deserves all this anger, but I still think he's gonna pull it out. This team will start winning games soon, and next year will be good. It will. I know that sounds like the same old "next year" stuff, but it will.

i agree. this just doesnt feel like our 2 and 14 season. imo this is the best team we have ever fielded and the wins will come. but patience is not a most fans strong point.

Polo
10-06-2008, 10:51 AM
I'm not on the Fire Kubiak bandwagon, but I do have to wonder why he called a bootleg instead of just running the ball to eat some clock and force Indy into using their last timeout.

Probably because he was trying to get the first down....

I'd imagine he told Sage to only throw it if a guy is clearly open...Run it if nothing is there, take the sack if all else fails...

Colts were expecting the run and were stacking against it...Good play call IMHO...not the desired reults obviously...

Had Sage not fumbled the ball or passed for the first down many around here would praise Kubiak for his "agressive play calling"....He was trying to be assertive and have his team make the plays to close the game by calling a play that atleast gave them a chance to get the first...

I forget, Do you guys wanna be more conservative or agressive ?

Vinny
10-06-2008, 10:52 AM
I'm not on the Fire Kubiak bandwagon, but I do have to wonder why he called a bootleg instead of just running the ball to eat some clock and force Indy into using their last timeout. because the game was won if you don't do anything risky and everyone knows a naked bootleg with a QB running in space vs NFL linebackers is the safe call right there.

Porky
10-06-2008, 10:57 AM
I'm not on the Fire Kubiak bandwagon, but I do have to wonder why he called a bootleg instead of just running the ball to eat some clock and force Indy into using their last timeout.


I was wondering the same thing. I think they went a bit too "cute" there. Apparently, my understanding was that they told Sage to play it safe there. Roll out, and if he didn't have a wide open target, play it safe, pull it down and get what you can by running.

I would have preffered to take the ball out of Sage's hands there because of his history, but I can't totally fault the play calling there either. In the end, that was on Sage.

He executed the play as called until the final couple of seconds, when he wanted to be the hero and have everyone in town calling the post game shows and writing the papers about how wonderful he is, and how a statue ought to be erected outside the stadium. So instead of playing it safe and sliding, he went the hero route, as if he was flipping into the end zone. Granted a first down puts the knife in, and just about turns it.

Pathetic. Sage put Sage first and not the team first there. Inexcusable. And if accountability has any meaning at all, he should be cut. Period. This team needs to be shown that if you put yourself first and/or make inexcusible mental errors, your walking papers will be greeting you at your locker the next day. Acceptance of this stuff has led us right down the rathole.

I would rather have a backup with less talent and something besides rocks for brians who implodes at the worst possible times. Losers makes losing plays, and that was the biggest losing play you will ever see.

utahmark
10-06-2008, 10:58 AM
because the game was won if you don't do anything risky and everyone knows a naked bootleg with a QB running in space vs NFL linebackers is the safe call right there.

if the qb slides before he gets tackled like normal, its a very safe call. dont even have to worry about the qb to rb exchange.

Double Barrel
10-06-2008, 10:58 AM
Probably because he was trying to get the first down....

I'd imagine he told Sage to only throw it if a guy is clearly open...Run it if nothing is there, take the sack if all else fails...

Colts were expecting the run and were stacking against it...Good play call IMHO...not the desired reults obviously...

Had Sage not fumbled the ball or passed for the first down many around here would praise Kubiak for his "agressive play calling"....He was trying to be assertive and have his team make the plays to close the game by calling a play that atleast gave them a chance to get the first...

I forget, Do you guys wanna be more conservative or agressive ?

You can excuse it all you want. Don't ASSUME that I or anyone else wants "conservative or aggressive" playcalling. There is a time for each, and sometimes within the same game.

Fisher is well known for sitting on leads with the most basic of gamecalling. People call him out for it. But guess what? He has one of the highest winning percentages when he has a lead in the 4th quarter. There is a reason for that, and it's called being a PROFESSIONAL HEAD COACH and knowing when to make the right calls to win games.

Making excuses for a losing mentality and inability to seal the deal in games like yesterday's only continues to perpetuate a losing mentality. There comes a point when you just have to see things for what they are at the end of the day. The results speak for themselves.

Texecutioner
10-06-2008, 11:03 AM
I want a new HC for the Texans. From what I have seen, Kubiak is in the bottom 5 of NFL head coaches when you grade everything from game plans, motivating the team, in game adjustments, and clock management.

However, getting a new HC is not enough. We need to hire a guy that will eradicate the culture of losing here. That is not an easy thing to do. My preference would be to get a proven winner here like Marty Schottenheimer or Bill Cowher to turn our program around. Marty in particular has won everywhere he has gone. Guys like that and Parcells demand accountability, command respect immediately, and players buy-in because of what they have done in the past.

We are not in a position to afford to pin our hopes on another first time coach or recycled also-ran. We need a coach who can instill a philosophy of what kind of team they want and actually implement that plan.

Changing a loser program into a winner is hard. Tampa turned it around with the brilliance of Tony Dungy. Say what you will about Jerry Glanville, but he restored pride in our team and made us into a hard hitting team that teams didn't want to play especially in the House of Pain. We desperately need that here.

Just look at what Parcells and his protege Sparano are doing in Miami. Mike Smith who is a first time coach has brought toughness to the Falcons and they are friggin 3-2 with a rookie QB. We need a winner here in Houston to lead us out of the abyss.

You're completely right.

The homers will blame everything on Sage, and still kiss Gary's ass no matter how far we sink. Some people think Kubiak hung the moon the way he gets excuses made for him and this team.

We have a losing culture ingrained in this team. Kubiak never changed that. He's stubborn and hasn't made good adjustments since he's been here. We find ways to lose games and foolish mistakes over and over. WELL COACHED TEAMS DON"T DO THAT! Well coached teams find ways to win and pull out games.

At the end of the day, their is always some excuse as to why their is an L in our record column rather than a W and that is what matters most. The Houston Texans team doesn't have any confidence right now and they don't believe in Gary Kubiak. Anyone that thinks this team believes in this Kubiak guy is out of their mind. Why would they? We had a game in our hands and yet blew another one. I don't care what player's fault it was or who blew it. This stuff keeps happening some how and some way and in the end it goes back to the head coach. Our defense is horrible, but even when it plays well like yesterday it can't hold the Colts when we really NEEDED them to step up for the offense's mistakes. Then when the defense isn't up to par the offense isn't able to out score or give them a crutch. We don't find ways to get luck nor do we take advantage of BREAKS or what people might call LUCK. We give LUCK to other teams like we just did to the Colts. We give other team's breaks.

All of this comes from being a team that doesn't have a winning culture that expects to WIN games. Kubiak has not brought a winning culture here and I'm not some fan that's going to wait 5 years for a coaching staff to have a team believing in them. Kubiak needs to go after this season.

euro-Texan
10-06-2008, 11:07 AM
As mad as I am with Sage, Kubiak put this on him. If I were Sage, and I knew the only way for me to ever be named the starter was to show some moxey, I would have tried to win the game instead of playing dead. Had sage engineered another scoring drive or even moved the chains with that leap, everyone right now would be asking what we could get for our "other" quaterback. Sage would be a hero and Kubes would HAVE to start him. Unfortunate for us all that Kubiak doen't work that way, so Sage was forced to sell himself like that.

Polo
10-06-2008, 11:21 AM
The results speak for themselves.

Really ?

The results tell me that we have a head coach and front office that have continuosly improved the team since they've gotten here...

If results are the only thing that matters how about waiting till the end of the season before we deem Kubiak a failure or determine he can't coach, constantly makes boneheaded decisions, ect...

Especially since the team (speaking strictly from a "results" standpoint) has gotten better ever since he's been here...

Double Barrel
10-06-2008, 11:30 AM
The results tell me that we have a head coach and front office that have continuosly improved the team since they've gotten here...

yeah, starting a season 0-4 is a HUGE "improvement". :ok:

It took Capers & Co. four seasons to get that far in "improving" the team.

Texecutioner
10-06-2008, 11:30 AM
Really ?

The results tell me that we have a head coach and front office that have continuosly improved the team since they've gotten here...

If results are the only thing that matters how about waiting till the end of the season before we deem Kubiak a failure or determine he can't coach, constantly makes boneheaded decisions, ect...

Especially since the team (speaking strictly from a "results" standpoint) has gotten better ever since he's been here...

Wake up POLO! They're 0-4. That is not getting better. And winning two more games a year isn't exactly the kind of improvements that people should be happy about. It was an acceptable improvement last season, but no way are they improving their record this season. When you are in your third season as head coach and you're team isn't improving then you've gotta go. Nothing more to be discussed.

Polo
10-06-2008, 11:34 AM
yeah, starting a season 0-4 is a HUGE "improvement". :ok:

It took Capers & Co. four seasons to get that far in "improving" the team.

You used the word "results".

Sorry you guys can only judge improvement by the record/ W's & L's. That must suck as a fan.

Double Barrel
10-06-2008, 12:05 PM
You used the word "results".

Sorry you guys can only judge improvement by the record/ W's & L's. That must suck as a fan.

And you completely dodged the previous discussion that you started with me. You took one line from my reply to you and disregarded the rest of the point.

What do YOU judge a team by as a fan, since you seem to be so insightful and condescending towards us lesser fans and our perspectives? You say we are continually improving, so it appears obvious that you are much more accepting of choking and losing than the rest of us.

Errant Hothy
10-06-2008, 12:10 PM
I'm not on the Fire Kubiak bandwagon, but I do have to wonder why he called a bootleg instead of just running the ball to eat some clock and force Indy into using their last timeout.

Look at it this way, if Sage had slide; 4th down might have been a Kris Brown attempt from around 50 yards. A punt would have likely gone in the endzone and only netted you 15 yards or so.

Polo
10-06-2008, 12:10 PM
And you completely dodged the previous discussion that you started with me. You took one line from my reply to you and disregarded the rest of the point.

What do YOU judge a team by as a fan, since you seem to be so insightful and condescending towards us lesser fans and our perspectives? You say we are continually improving, so it appears obvious that you are much more accepting of choking and losing than the rest of us.

Wasn't trying to ignore you...I rearely respond to every point in every post I quote...

Double Barrel
10-06-2008, 12:21 PM
Wasn't trying to ignore you...I rearely respond to every point in every post I quote...

It's cool, man. I know everyone is frustrated by yesterday's debacle, so fans have to keep from turning on each other. There is nothing wrong with different perspectives and agreeing to disagree. You are keeping a level-headed attitude about everything, and in the long run, it is probably the best way to be about a sports team

Texan JBZ
10-06-2008, 12:25 PM
You guys are ridiculous. Fire Kubiak? Okay..so Kubiak, not Sage, lost that game yesterday, right? I've had a few problems with the way Kubes has done things this year, but yesterday was not his fault. As far as the bootleg, that's about as safe a call as you can make at that point. I'm with Polo on this one in that Kubiak probably told Sage not to force anything-throw it to the receiver if he's open, run the ball and stay in bounds if he is not, if you don't get the first we'll punt it away and play defense. I'm pretty sure that Kubiak didn't tell Sage to go Reggie Bush and try to dive for the 1st down if he had pressure on him. Yesterday was all about Sage blowing the game. Period. This is his M.O. He's a maverick. A risk-taker. I think I've stated this before though. This is why I like Schuab better.

Look, I'm tired of supporting a losing team just like the rest of you are. But to blame yesterday, or last week, or to a certain extent the week before that, on Kubiak is absurd. He had his best coaching outing of the season yesterday, and the Texans still found a way to lose. Andre had his best outing of the year yesterday, we still lost. Schuab had his best game of the year last week against J-Ville and the results were the same. Mario is balling, Amobi finally woke up and had a great game, Slaton's a gamer, Diles played solid, so did Bennett-and it still didn't matter. Let's face it Texans fans-our team is a bunch of guys who don't know how to win at all. They're losers!

Double Barrel
10-06-2008, 12:29 PM
As far as the bootleg, that's about as safe a call as you can make at that point.

I think a simple handoff to the RB is the safest call. It keeps the clock running or forces Indy to use their last timeout. Jeff Fisher does not call bootlegs to seal the deal in 4th quarter leads, and his philosophy is one that we should adopt when you consider his winning percentage of 4th quarter leads (one of the best in the NFL). It's called ball control offense, and a bootleg is not considered one of the "safe plays" of this philosophy.

Vinny
10-06-2008, 12:29 PM
Look at it this way, if Sage had slide; 4th down might have been a Kris Brown attempt from around 50 yards. A punt would have likely gone in the endzone and only netted you 15 yards or so.
even madden gamers know not to give away short fields. Putting your QB in a tough situation was stupid when you could have just run the ball and punted if you didn't make the first down and you do one of two things at that point...claim the last time out the Colts had or run off nearly another minute from the clock and give them a long field.

Vinny
10-06-2008, 12:30 PM
I think a simple handoff to the RB is the safest call. It keeps the clock running or forces Indy to use their last timeout. Jeff Fisher does not call bootlegs to seal the deal in 4th quarter leads, and his philosophy is one that we should adopt when you consider his winning percentage of 4th quarter leads (one of the best in the NFL). It's called ball control offense, and a bootleg is not considered one of the "safe plays" of this philosophy.
That isn't a Fisher philosophy its just sound football strategy...something that is elusive to Kubiak apparently.

Texecutioner
10-06-2008, 12:31 PM
He had his best coaching outing of the season yesterday, and the Texans still found a way to lose. Andre had his best outing of the year yesterday, we still lost.

That is the point. Good coaches don't consistently have teams that find ways to lose. This continious stuff that seems to happen over and over doesn't happen with good coaches around the league. Winning coaches find ways to win in tough games where their team might not be playing so well or when it gets close. Gary had his best coaching outing of the season, but STILL LOST! That is why needs to go.

Double Barrel
10-06-2008, 12:32 PM
That isn't a Fisher philosophy its just sound football strategy...something that is elusive to Kubiak apparently.

No doubt about it. I just use Fisher as an example of a head coach that understands sound football strategy. It is something Kubiak needs to learn quickly if he wants any kind of successful head coaching career in the NFL.

It is still mind-boggling that we are "one of those teams" that can blow a 17 point lead in just a matter of minutes.

Polo
10-06-2008, 12:33 PM
I'm pretty sure Fisher's record has more to do with other aspects and not simply because he's conservative....

Lots of conservative coaches have failed....Most of the time in the play-offs...

Errant Hothy
10-06-2008, 12:42 PM
even madden gamers know not to give away short fields. Putting your QB in a tough situation was stupid when you could have just run the ball and punted if you didn't make the first down and you do one of two things at that point...claim the last time out the Colts had or run off nearly another minute from the clock and give them a long field.

Yeah, cause first off Madden gamers are the pinnacle of football intelligence.

The fumble happened at the 32 yard line, if Sage had slide the attempt for Brown would have been 49 or 50 yards depending on the spot. Brown has been fairly consistent from that range at Reliant. The ball would have been spot at the 39/40 yard line. A punt would likely have wound up in the endzone. So we are talking about a 19/20 yard difference and 3 points; or at that stage of the game an extra completion or two from Manning.

Of course all of this is mute since Sage thinks he's Randall Cunningham.

Double Barrel
10-06-2008, 12:50 PM
I'm pretty sure Fisher's record has more to do with other aspects and not simply because he's conservative....


Follow along now...I never said that was the only reason why Fisher wins games. But, are you trying to deny that making sound coaching decisions is NOT part of a winning mentality?

The point is specific to the game situation yesterday. Get it? Point is that Kubiak should have played ball control offense. Eat the clock at all costs. Do not call a pass play. Keep the clock going and force Indy into using all of their timeouts.

For some reason, I know you know what I'm talking about, but choose to be obtuse about these points because of some hidden agenda or cry for attention. Why persist in acting like you can't understand a point in order to argue?

Yeah, cause first off Madden gamers are the pinnacle of football intelligence.

The fumble happened at the 32 yard line, if Sage had slide the attempt for Brown would have been 49 or 50 yards depending on the spot. Brown has been fairly consistent from that range at Reliant. The ball would have been spot at the 39/40 yard line. A punt would likely have wound up in the endzone. So we are talking about a 19/20 yard difference and 3 points; or at that stage of the game an extra completion or two from Manning.

Of course all of this is mute since Sage thinks he's Randall Cunningham.

It all comes down to chewing up the clock. It was the end of the fourth and every second that we use is less time that Manning doesn't have to work. If he was forced to march the field 2-3 times to score, there is a good chance that he would have just run out of time. Our defense was pretty sound yesterday.

powerfuldragon
10-06-2008, 12:51 PM
I forget, Do you guys wanna be more conservative or agressive ?

if you go by what's to be read in the NSZ, the former.

Vinny
10-06-2008, 12:54 PM
Yeah, cause first off Madden gamers are the pinnacle of football intelligence.


strategy is strategy and the dynamics are the same. What makes you think that short fields are the same as long fields when it comes to scoring drives? If you run up the gut you force them to use their final time out or you milk another 45 seconds off the clock and the Colts still need two scores and will have to put together a long drive to get the first one. Football is a strategy game whether you acknowledge this or not.

Errant Hothy
10-06-2008, 12:58 PM
strategy is strategy and the dynamics are the same. What makes you think that short fields are the same as long fields when it comes to scoring drives? If you run up the gut you force them to use their final time out or you milk another 45 seconds off the clock and the Colts still need two scores and will have to put together a long drive to get the first one. Football is a strategy game whether you acknowledge this or not.

Where talking 19 yards net (if the FG was missed) against a QB with a career 120+ rating against us.

I'd have gambled on the FG, forcing the two scores to both be TDs and giving me a better chance to pin them deep on the kickoff, then punt with the likely result being a touchback. Hell going for it after the slide, and failing, would have only given the Colts 12 extra yards.

Polo
10-06-2008, 01:00 PM
Follow along now...I never said that was the only reason why Fisher wins games. But, are you trying to deny that making sound coaching decisions is NOT part of a winning mentality?

The point is specific to the game situation yesterday. Get it? Point is that Kubiak should have played ball control offense. Eat the clock at all costs. Do not call a pass play. Keep the clock going and force Indy into using all of their timeouts.

For some reason, I know you know what I'm talking about, but choose to be obtuse about these points because of some hidden agenda or cry for attention. Why persist in acting like you can't understand a point in order to argue?

I've already explained my position on this and the play call so I won't keep re-hashing or arguing against everyone of your silly little points...

Carry on with your repetitive bitching...


:texflag:

Texecutioner
10-06-2008, 01:00 PM
strategy is strategy and the dynamics are the same. What makes you think that short fields are the same as long fields when it comes to scoring drives? If you run up the gut you force them to use their final time out or you milk another 45 seconds off the clock and the Colts still need two scores and will have to put together a long drive to get the first one. Football is a strategy game whether you acknowledge this or not.

Pretty simple strategy Vinny. That is all they needed to do. It wasn't enough time for the Colts to come back. They might have gotten close, but they didn't have enough time. The Colts may not have even scored at all for all we know if they had to go the entire field rather than a FREE RED ZONE opportunity TWICE!

I thought for sure that we would have ran the ball, but Sage was told to run a bootleg that he shouldn't have been told to do in the first place.

Vinny
10-06-2008, 01:01 PM
Where talking 19 yards net (if the FG was missed) against a QB with a career 120+ rating against us.

I'd have gambled on the FG, forcing the two scores to both be TDs and giving me a better chance to pin them deep on the kickoff, then punt with the likely result being a touchback. Hell going for it after the slide, and failing, would have only given the Colts 12 extra yards.
the 30 yard line is only 20 yards from the 50 so what is your point? There are only 50 on each side of your half of the field and the further you push your opponent back the harder it is for him...or have you missed this little point in your football observation tower? You didn't address the dynamic of the clock still running, not putting your QB in a potential disastrous situation with a naked bootleg vs NFL linebackers in space and forcing them to use their last time out too...put it all together and it's called good strategy.

Basically smart football coaches know YOU RUN THE FRIGGIN' BALL with that kind of a lead and chew the clock and the time outs and then PUNT and give the other team a LONG field if you can't make a first down. You don't try to "win" the game with a risky naked bootleg with a two score lead and 4 mins left. Combine this game with his awful game management we saw in the last game putting this team in an unwinnable situation late is simply appalling. Its almost the equivalent of being ahead 5k in Vegas after a great weekend and you decide that you can double your money by betting black on the roulette table before you leave so you put all your winnings at risk at once because if you won, you would look brilliant!

Double Barrel
10-06-2008, 01:06 PM
I've already explained my position on this and the play call so I won't keep re-hashing or arguing against everyone of your silly little points...

You have not explained anything. You make one liner points in an obvious attempt to argue with people. Whatever, I'm not going to play your little games anymore. It's obvious in your answers to everyone what you're about. Keep it Real.

Carry on with your repetitive bitching...

I will.

And you enjoy your brownie.

Texan JBZ
10-06-2008, 01:11 PM
The bootleg was a good call by Kubiak. If Sage doesn't f#%k it up, it's ballgame. I still don't see how ya'll pin that on Kubiak when he's not the one that went airborne.

HJam72
10-06-2008, 01:14 PM
OK, here's the answer (some time this year):

OK guys, we know we're going to lose this one. We're just outmatched (and probably on the road). So, here's what we're gonna do. I want you guys to go out there and get all the *&(# ups out of the way. We're gonna do EVERYTHING wrong all day. Run backwards, throw picks, hand offs to defenders....just get it all out of your systems. Next week, we'll start getting serious. :fans:

TexansFight
10-06-2008, 01:14 PM
The bootleg was a good call by Kubiak. If Sage doesn't f#%k it up, it's ballgame. I still don't see how ya'll pin that on Kubiak when he's not the one that went airborne.

That's stupid. Run the ball up the middle. Get 2-3 yards at worst, then punt or go for the field goal. You would NEVER see such a call from winning coaches in this league.

Errant Hothy
10-06-2008, 01:14 PM
the 30 yard line is only 20 yards from the 50 so what is your point? There are only 50 on each side of the ball and the further you push your opponent back the harder it is for him...or have you missed this little point in your football observation tower? You didn't address the dynamic of the clock still running, not putting your QB in a potential disastrous situation with a naked bootleg vs NFL linebackers in space and forcing them to use their last time out too...put it all together and it's called good strategy.

A repeat of running the ball would have yielded the same result a 1 yard gain, and the Colts likely burning their last TO (the clock had barely moved since the onside kick). I agree that the call of a naked bootleg was risky as get out, but if Sage hadn't try to hurdle a LB it would have worked, to the point of setting up a long FG. Another 1 yard gain and a point would have given the Colts 80 yards to go with no TOs needing only a TD then a FG to tie, and I've been around long enough to know that 10 points in 3:50 seconds is well within the abilities of the Colts.

The playcalling was risky, but all Sage had to do was get to the ground with the ball. Is that too much to ask for?

TheRealJoker
10-06-2008, 01:14 PM
I didn't think there was any problem with Kubiak as HC until yesterday postgame. Duane Brown said Kubiak told the team after the game "he was proud of them."

Proud after blowing a 17 point lead in 4 minutes? Proud of being 0-4 when you could arguably have been 3-1 had your team been mentally tough enough to play hard the whole 60 minutes?

You can rationalize losses all you want but being "proud" after a loss, especially one like that is not how a winning coach or a winning franchise thinks.

Did Bill Bellichek tell the New England Patriots he was "proud of them" after they lost the Super Bowl? It sure sounds like something Kubiak would've said.

We need to get rid of the "nice guy" "player's coach" types and bring in someone who will be mean enough to mold this franchise into a winner. Someone who's got enough balls to bring in a guy with a sketchy past like a Pacman Jones or an Albert Haynesworth because he knows he will get the best out of that player and that player wont be a problem on HIS TEAM. Someone who isn't afraid to remove one of his assistants from their post if they aren't cutting the mustard. EX: You dont have to fire the guy either. Jim Fassel took over playcalling duties from Sean Payton the year they went to the SB when they were in a slump. As soon as he did that the team caught a hot streak they rode to the SB. Payton is obviously not a bad coach, but this was the best move at the time.

Nice guys finish last. The sooner our organization from the top down realizes it the sooner we will start winning games we "shoulda won had ____ occured. Aww shucks, better luck next time I guess!!!"

TexansFight
10-06-2008, 01:17 PM
I didn't think there was any problem with Kubiak as HC until yesterday postgame. Duane Brown said Kubiak told the team after the game "he was proud of them."

Proud after blowing a 17 point lead in 4 minutes? Proud of being 0-4 when you could arguably have been 3-1 had your team been mentally tough enough to play hard the whole 60 minutes?

You can rationalize losses all you want but being "proud" after a loss, especially one like that is not how a winning coach or a winning franchise thinks.

Did Bill Bellichek tell the New England Patriots he was "proud of them" after they lost the Super Bowl? It sure sounds like something Kubiak would've said.

We need to get rid of the "nice guy" "player's coach" types and bring in someone who will be mean enough to mold this franchise into a winner. Someone who's got enough balls to bring in a guy with a sketchy past like a Pacman Jones or an Albert Haynesworth because he knows he will get the best out of that player and that player wont be a problem on HIS TEAM.

Nice guys finish last. The sooner our organization from the top down realizes it the sooner we will start winning games we "shoulda won had ____ occured. Aww shucks, better luck next time I guess!!!"

A-fvking-men! Kubiak sounds like a soccer mom with that shit. Did he pass juice boxes and orange slices to the guys after the game? I wonder if they went as a team to Cici's as well

Vinny
10-06-2008, 01:17 PM
I didn't think there was any problem with Kubiak as HC until yesterday postgame. Duane Brown said Kubiak told the team after the game "he was proud of them."

Proud after blowing a 17 point lead in 4 minutes? Proud of being 0-4 when you could arguably have been 3-1 had your team been mentally tough enough to play hard the whole 60 minutes?

You can rationalize losses all you want but being "proud" after a loss, especially one like that is not how a winning coach or a winning franchise thinks.

Did Bill Bellichek tell the New England Patriots he was "proud of them" after they lost the Super Bowl? It sure sounds like something Kubiak would've said.

We need to get rid of the "nice guy" "player's coach" types and bring in someone who will be mean enough to mold this franchise into a winner. Someone who's got enough balls to bring in a guy with a sketchy past like a Pacman Jones or an Albert Haynesworth because he knows he will get the best out of that player and that player wont be a problem on HIS TEAM.

Nice guys finish last. The sooner our organization from the top down realizes it the sooner we will start winning games we "shoulda won had ____ occured. Aww shucks, better luck next time I guess!!!"

Can you imagine a Parcells QB even taking a chance at a Rosencopter play with a two score lead under Parcells or Bellicheck? Their QB's would be too scared to try put the entire team at risk for one play.

Vinny
10-06-2008, 01:20 PM
A repeat of running the ball would have yielded the same result a 1 yard gain, and the Colts likely burning their last TO (the clock had barely moved since the onside kick). I agree that the call of a naked bootleg was risky as get out, but if Sage hadn't try to hurdle a LB it would have worked, to the point of setting up a long FG. Another 1 yard gain and a point would have given the Colts 80 yards to go with no TOs needing only a TD then a FG to tie, and I've been around long enough to know that 10 points in 3:50 seconds is well within the abilities of the Colts.

The playcalling was risky, but all Sage had to do was get to the ground with the ball. Is that too much to ask for?The team held the Colts to ten points with good defense to that point. Really, the defense is responsible for about 17 points and the other points are on the idiotic decisions by the play calling coach. Is Kubiak calling the plays or is it the teenaged offensive coordinator we promoted this season?

a big part of coaching is putting your players in winnable situations. A naked bootleg with a two score game and and 4 mins on the clock is a risk not needed. Kubiak proved he has no clue this last two weeks.

Errant Hothy
10-06-2008, 01:26 PM
I didn't think there was any problem with Kubiak as HC until yesterday postgame. Duane Brown said Kubiak told the team after the game "he was proud of them."

Proud after blowing a 17 point lead in 4 minutes? Proud of being 0-4 when you could arguably have been 3-1 had your team been mentally tough enough to play hard the whole 60 minutes?

You can rationalize losses all you want but being "proud" after a loss, especially one like that is not how a winning coach or a winning franchise thinks.

Did Bill Bellichek tell the New England Patriots he was "proud of them" after they lost the Super Bowl? It sure sounds like something Kubiak would've said.

We need to get rid of the "nice guy" "player's coach" types and bring in someone who will be mean enough to mold this franchise into a winner. Someone who's got enough balls to bring in a guy with a sketchy past like a Pacman Jones or an Albert Haynesworth because he knows he will get the best out of that player and that player wont be a problem on HIS TEAM. Someone who isn't afraid to remove one of his assistants from their post if they aren't cutting the mustard. EX: You dont have to fire the guy either. Jim Fassel took over playcalling duties from Sean Payton the year they went to the SB when they were in a slump. As soon as he did that the team caught a hot streak they rode to the SB. Payton is obviously not a bad coach, but this was the best move at the time.

Nice guys finish last. The sooner our organization from the top down realizes it the sooner we will start winning games we "shoulda won had ____ occured. Aww shucks, better luck next time I guess!!!"

I hadn't thought that much about Kubiak's performance, still to pissed at Sage, but reading over the quotes and presser from after the game I'm starting to get the feeling that Kubiak is a pro copy of John Mackovic.

Errant Hothy
10-06-2008, 01:27 PM
The team held the Colts to ten points with good defense to that point. Really, the defense is responsible for about 17 points and the other points are on the idiotic decisions by the play calling coach. Is Kubiak calling the plays or is it the teenaged offensive coordinator we promoted this season?

a big part of coaching is putting your players in winnable situations. A naked bootleg with a two score game and and 4 mins on the clock is a risk not needed. Kubiak proved he has no clue this last two weeks.

I think the QB needs some of that blame, the 2nd TO was all on Sage.

eriadoc
10-06-2008, 01:37 PM
I have to disagree with y'all about the playcalling. I think the bootleg was a great call. After two straight runs up the gut that yielded nothing, a bootleg was a way to keep the ball on the ground while actually providing a chance to get a first down and really put your heel on their throat. At the same time, it's not really anymore risky than a handoff up the gut. If Sage sees nothing, he slides down and the team punts. If he gets the first down, the Colts are finished. How many times have we criticized the team for being soft?

The one variable that is not allowed for in that equation is Sage Rosencopter. If he had just slid, we would have punted and ultimately won. The bootleg was a good risk v. reward call, and a nice balance between giving up completely (handoff up the gut) and a stupid pass play. Sage has to be smart in that situation.

I can find fault with Kubiak in spots in just about every game, but this call was a great call, IMO. It was a good risk v. reward analysis; it's just that Kubiak didn't factor Sage into the risk side of things. And why would he at that point? Sage had been doing very well.

Polo
10-06-2008, 01:44 PM
I have to disagree with y'all about the playcalling. I think the bootleg was a great call. After two straight runs up the gut that yielded nothing, a bootleg was a way to keep the ball on the ground while actually providing a chance to get a first down and really put your heel on their throat. At the same time, it's not really anymore risky than a handoff up the gut. If Sage sees nothing, he slides down and the team punts. If he gets the first down, the Colts are finished. How many times have we criticized the team for being soft?

The one variable that is not allowed for in that equation is Sage Rosencopter. If he had just slid, we would have punted and ultimately won. The bootleg was a good risk v. reward call, and a nice balance between giving up completely (handoff up the gut) and a stupid pass play. Sage has to be smart in that situation.

I can find fault with Kubiak in spots in just about every game, but this call was a great call, IMO. It was a good risk v. reward analysis; it's just that Kubiak didn't factor Sage into the risk side of things. And why would he at that point? Sage had been doing very well.

Pretty much.

Runner
10-06-2008, 01:53 PM
Wasn't Sage hand picked by Kubiak and given the backup QB job without competing for it? The same goes for Schaub as the starter. Since Kubiak is also part of their training, I'd say he has a lot of responsibility for the quarterback play.

Polo
10-06-2008, 01:55 PM
Wasn't Sage hand picked by Kubiak and given the backup QB job without competing for it? The same goes for Schaub as the starter. Since Kubiak is also part of their training, I'd say he has a lot of responsibility for the quarterback play.

This isn't a video game.

He can't control their every move...

Maybe Kubiak should have quickly tapped square instead of holding it down....

utahmark
10-06-2008, 02:11 PM
Wasn't Sage hand picked by Kubiak and given the backup QB job without competing for it? The same goes for Schaub as the starter. Since Kubiak is also part of their training, I'd say he has a lot of responsibility for the quarterback play.

who do you want these guys to compete with. i mean we had a couple of qb's on the roster during training camp. i guess we could ask some of the other teams to borrow some of there qb's. where are we gonna get these guys? you pick a guy or 2 you think can get the job done then you let them try. you dont have 5 qb's all the same tallent level and the best man wins. no one can afford to do that. salary cap!

Texan JBZ
10-06-2008, 03:47 PM
I have to disagree with y'all about the playcalling. I think the bootleg was a great call. After two straight runs up the gut that yielded nothing, a bootleg was a way to keep the ball on the ground while actually providing a chance to get a first down and really put your heel on their throat. At the same time, it's not really anymore risky than a handoff up the gut. If Sage sees nothing, he slides down and the team punts. If he gets the first down, the Colts are finished. How many times have we criticized the team for being soft?

The one variable that is not allowed for in that equation is Sage Rosencopter. If he had just slid, we would have punted and ultimately won. The bootleg was a good risk v. reward call, and a nice balance between giving up completely (handoff up the gut) and a stupid pass play. Sage has to be smart in that situation.

I can find fault with Kubiak in spots in just about every game, but this call was a great call, IMO. It was a good risk v. reward analysis; it's just that Kubiak didn't factor Sage into the risk side of things. And why would he at that point? Sage had been doing very well.

Seconds

Runner
10-06-2008, 04:09 PM
This isn't a video game.

He can't control their every move...

Maybe Kubiak should have quickly tapped square instead of holding it down....

A Madden troll. How original.

Following your logic to its conclusion, coaches don't influence how a player performs. Why have coaches?

Yankee_In_TX
10-06-2008, 04:21 PM
I don't think we have a losing culture. I think we just don't know how to put the nail in the coffin. Not sure which is worse.

Runner
10-06-2008, 04:25 PM
who do you want these guys to compete with. i mean we had a couple of qb's on the roster during training camp. i guess we could ask some of the other teams to borrow some of there qb's. where are we gonna get these guys? you pick a guy or 2 you think can get the job done then you let them try. you dont have 5 qb's all the same tallent level and the best man wins. no one can afford to do that. salary cap!


So you are saying that QBs shouldn't have to compete for their jobs. That fits into the Texans culture anyway.

The reason to have a competition is to make them prove what they have. These guys were gifted their positions as soon as they joined the team. Sage didn't even have to beat out Ragone-that competition would have been free.

Why do other positions have to compete?

Polo
10-07-2008, 11:02 AM
A Madden troll. How original.

Following your logic to its conclusion, coaches don't influence how a player performs. Why have coaches?

Nice try...

But I clearly said "he can't control their every move"....

Of course they influence how a player plays....Doesn't mean that every boneheaded mistake a player makes is on the coaches...

Polo
10-07-2008, 02:32 PM
So you are saying that QBs shouldn't have to compete for their jobs. That fits into the Texans culture anyway.

The reason to have a competition is to make them prove what they have. These guys were gifted their positions as soon as they joined the team. Sage didn't even have to beat out Ragone-that competition would have been free.

Why do other positions have to compete?

This isn't a Texan phenomenon...

There aren't many QB competitions in the NFL period....

Lots of guys get annointed at that position...Pretty much every team has a QB that was annointed or a QB that beat out the guy that was annointed after the annointed one sucked it up or got injured....

This isn't new...Think about it...

GNTLEWOLF
10-08-2008, 12:01 AM
Really ?

The results tell me that we have a head coach and front office that have continuosly improved the team since they've gotten here...

If results are the only thing that matters how about waiting till the end of the season before we deem Kubiak a failure or determine he can't coach, constantly makes boneheaded decisions, ect...

Especially since the team (speaking strictly from a "results" standpoint) has gotten better ever since he's been here...

Polo...Please understand I am not criticizing or arguing with what you are saying, but I have been wondering why Atlanta was aweful last year, Miami was a joke last year, even the Raiders are a joke, and each of these teams has shown an amazing improvement over a years time. Yet the Texans are three years into this new group of coaches, and we still hear the same excuses. Now, I'll admit the offense is much improved. I believe that improvement is due in part to Duane Brown and Slaton. I guess I'm just frustrated with how slow our turnaround is compared to other teams that look like they are playing better ball than we are right now. Is the apparent improvement by these other teams a fluke? Are we talking apples and oranges here when comparing ourselves with other teams? Do we really just need to wait till next year yet again? I don't think I want Kubiak fired, but I surely want him to feel some urgency about improving this team. 0-4 is not acceptable, and yet I have to agree this team has played well the last two games. I just hope that all of us who are tired of empty excuses by this coaching staff turn out to be totally wrong by the end of the year, but somehow, my gut feeling is that this might be a long year. I hope not.

HJam72
10-08-2008, 12:10 AM
This team doesn't yet know what it feels like to just relax, play hard, keep your lead, and wait for THE OTHER TEAM to screw up. They play desparate, even when they have a big lead. They don't yet know how to walk up to the line with a swagger and silently (to themselves) ask the opponents, "Is this going to be the play where YOU blow any chance you have of coming back?--or are we just going to ram it up your butts?"

They can't win much until they get some confidence and they can't get that confidence until they win some more, which will happen sooner or later if they keep playing like they did for 55 minutes Sunday.

Polo
10-08-2008, 09:09 AM
Polo...Please understand I am not criticizing or arguing with what you are saying, but I have been wondering why Atlanta was aweful last year, Miami was a joke last year, even the Raiders are a joke, and each of these teams has shown an amazing improvement over a years time. Yet the Texans are three years into this new group of coaches, and we still hear the same excuses. Now, I'll admit the offense is much improved. I believe that improvement is due in part to Duane Brown and Slaton.

We aren't those teams...

It makes no sense to judge progress by comparing yourself to other teams by their win/loss records...

There are so many variables that go into winning and losing that IMHO, thats a waste of time.

Those teams that you named also have been involved with some trades/free agent pick-ups that give them instant veteran talent. They have some young guys stepping up and playing well....Also...Atlanta was only really bad for one year...Raiders have been bad since their superbowl and really still aren't "good" IMHO. There are just so many variables in why this team has lost games this year and why other teams are winning. Doesn't make taking the losses any easier, but evaluating the Texans in a vaccum leads me to believe that they are making some progress. Just my 2 cents.

Runner
10-08-2008, 10:04 AM
Polo...Please understand I am not criticizing or arguing with what you are saying, but I have been wondering why Atlanta was aweful last year, Miami was a joke last year, even the Raiders are a joke, and each of these teams has shown an amazing improvement over a years time. Yet the Texans are three years into this new group of coaches, and we still hear the same excuses. Now, I'll admit the offense is much improved. I believe that improvement is due in part to Duane Brown and Slaton. I guess I'm just frustrated with how slow our turnaround is compared to other teams that look like they are playing better ball than we are right now. Is the apparent improvement by these other teams a fluke? Are we talking apples and oranges here when comparing ourselves with other teams? Do we really just need to wait till next year yet again? I don't think I want Kubiak fired, but I surely want him to feel some urgency about improving this team. 0-4 is not acceptable, and yet I have to agree this team has played well the last two games. I just hope that all of us who are tired of empty excuses by this coaching staff turn out to be totally wrong by the end of the year, but somehow, my gut feeling is that this might be a long year. I hope not.


These are good questions. This year their is a lot of sentiment that this is a greatly improved Texans team. Right now that is more of a perception than anything shown on the field. The team is unlikely to improve on last year's record and will probably fall short. Other teams are improving more rapidly in the win/loss column where it really counts. Some of these teams have started out in just as bad a shape as the Texans.

All excuses aside, these teams are acquiring the players, making the decisions, and doing the things required to win more games.

The Texans may talk themselves into believing they are building for a future, but other teams have and are doing it faster and with greater success.

Kaiser Toro
10-09-2008, 10:58 PM
http://www.headlinesports.net/images/1982txfb.jpg

Second Honeymoon
10-10-2008, 03:13 PM
http://www.headlinesports.net/images/1982txfb.jpg

ok, texas football magazine. your featuring a QB on the cover. would it have been that hard to get a good picture of Kubiak maybe, I don't know, maybe actually throwing a pass and not making a pitch wide. I know that college football was a lot different back then and much more run-oriented but cmon now.

still a cool magazine cover and hearkens back to a simpler time.

rush2112mn
10-11-2008, 11:00 AM
Lets get a priest and have him do a exorcisim on Reliant stadium and the practice facilities......:yikes: