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CrosbyTexansFan
10-05-2008, 04:14 PM
Kubiak should have benched Sage after he tried to leap over 3 LB's like he was Elway or something. This was done after he held that ball out in the open during that QB sneak......in which case I'm SURE the coaches told him to not do dumb stuff like that anymore & protect the ball. And if the coaches did NOT tell him that, then that is just another reason to get rid of Kubiak. Kubiak has to own up to some of this fiasco........not protecting the football is unacceptable.......that is Kubiak's own words from when Carr was giving it up. When sage went haywire the 1st time, he should have been removed from the game. Kubiak should lose his job over this, so should Sage. Only action such as this would convince the rest of the team that protecting the football is job #1 for any team at ANY level. I imagine right now the team probably thinks protecting the football is the last thing they need to do.......after watching this fiasco.:jogger:

junior
10-05-2008, 04:16 PM
Kubiak should have benched Sage after he tried to leap over 3 LB's like he was Elway or something. This was done after he held that ball out in the open during that QB sneak......in which case I'm SURE the coaches told him to not do dumb stuff like that anymore & protect the ball. And if the coaches did NOT tell him that, then that is just another reason to get rid of Kubiak. Kubiak has to own up to some of this fiasco........not protecting the football is unacceptable.......that is Kubiak's own words from when Carr was giving it up. When sage went haywire the 1st time, he should have been removed from the game. Kubiak should lose his job over this, so should Sage. Only action such as this would convince the rest of the team that protecting the football is job #1 for any team at ANY level. I imagine right now the team probably thinks protecting the football is the last thing they need to do.......after watching this fiasco.:jogger:

he couldnt bench Sage, Matt had a tummy ache. I guess he could have put Daniels in.

kiwitexansfan
10-05-2008, 04:16 PM
I'm about as Pro-Kubiak as they come, and I have to put some of this loss on his playcalling.

No way we should have been doing anything but running the ball up into the pile at the end of the game.

Mailman
10-05-2008, 04:17 PM
Yeah!! Fire Kubiak!!!! What was he thinking not benching the only healthy QB on the sideline?

Start OD at quarterback!!!!

TexansLucky13
10-05-2008, 04:17 PM
What better option did we have than Sage, seriously? He carried us to 27 unanswered points and then made a HUGE mistake. This game proved one thing and one thing only.... Sage is NOT our starter. He is and has been a backup for a reason.

kiwitexansfan
10-05-2008, 04:17 PM
he couldnt bench Sage, Matt had a tummy ache. I guess he could have put Daniels in.

They could of been direct snapping it to a RB, after all we should have been running the ball.

CrosbyTexansFan
10-05-2008, 04:18 PM
Matt with a tummy ache is better than Sage with a brain ache......and Daniels has way better hands than sage. ANYTHING but Sage at that point!

PapaL
10-05-2008, 04:20 PM
They could of been direct snapping it to a RB, after all we should have been running the ball.

Yeah but Sage tackled/tripped Green on that direct snap.

Anyone else notice that?

TexansLucky13
10-05-2008, 04:21 PM
Matt with a tummy ache is better than Sage with a brain ache......and Daniels has way better hands than sage. ANYTHING but Sage at that point!

Hindsight is 20/20, chief. If Sage had've responded to that fumble with a game-ending drive we would all be singing his praises. But, of course, that didn't happen.

A dose of perspective is a powerful thing.

Mailman
10-05-2008, 04:21 PM
Matt with a tummy ache is better than Sage with a brain ache......and Daniels has way better hands than sage. ANYTHING but Sage at that point!

Cracking on Sage for his bone-headed play when it mattered most is fair, but blaming Kubiak for not pulling him at that point is knee-jerk crap.

Texanmike02
10-05-2008, 04:22 PM
Wow, how funny it is. An hour and a half ago all of houston was saying "see I told you Sage was the anointed one". Now they are asking why he wasn't benched after that play. You have no one else to go to except sage. Kubiak did the right thing... you had to move the ball out of the shadow of your own goal line and hopefully put some points back on the board.


Funny how fickle fans are. I don't know how, if you were in the START Sage club you can now be in the "Fire Kubiak because he didn't pull our messiah out" club. We now know that maybe Kubes is a little smarter than we all are and was right to NOT start sage unless he had to. As for Schaub, he spent the night in the hospital. Wonder if maybe that's why he wasn't in the game at the end.

Mike

Leahmic223
10-05-2008, 04:23 PM
This is silly.

The ONLY person that needs to take the blame for this loss is Sage Rosenfels...NO ONE ELSE. Sage is the only guy that should take this loss today.

Mr. White
10-05-2008, 04:24 PM
The bottom line is that the guy hasn't produced. I remember a lot of talk about him trying to rid the "culture of losing" after he got the job. Now it looks like he's created his own culture of losing.

There are other coaches (like Mike McCarthy and Sean Payton) who have turned things around and put teams in the playoffs in less than the amount of time that Kubiak has had. And it looks like Sparano might just be another one to add to that list.

Can anybody hook me up with a bookie in Houston? Maybe I could start finally making some money off the Texans instead of them making money off of me.

Historyhorn
10-05-2008, 04:25 PM
What better option did we have than Sage, seriously? He carried us to 27 unanswered points and then made a HUGE mistake. This game proved one thing and one thing only.... Sage is NOT our starter. He is and has been a backup for a reason.

Correction: Four huge mistakes.

One didn't cost us, but the other three combined caused us to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Ugh.

On point, Kubes didn't make the brain farts that Sage did, but he put Sage in the situation three separate times which led to bad plays.

Up two scores, we should have run it three consecutive times and made them spend all of their time outs. Instead, we run twice and then try to get cute. If we punt and make them drive the length of the field, recover an on-side kick, and then drive again to get a field goal (all without any time outs), the worst we can do is go to OT. Brutal, brutal decision making by the head coach.

I haven't been this discouraged since we were on our way to getting the number one pick. By the way, Mario and the D-line had a whale of a game wasted. Fire Kubiak. Fire Richard Smith. Give this organization an enema.

TheIronDuke
10-05-2008, 04:25 PM
How was Kubes supposed to know that RonsenFAILS forgot that taking care of the ball was somewhat important?

ziggy29
10-05-2008, 04:27 PM
Cracking on Sage for his bone-headed play when it mattered most is fair, but blaming Kubiak for not pulling him at that point is knee-jerk crap.
+1.

To that point, Sage had been playing good football (though he got lucky to not lose the ball stretching out at the goal line earlier). Few coaches want to bench their QB and completely deflate whatever remaining confidence they have.

The bottom line is that Sage hurt the team by trying to do too much. As much as that sucks, it's better than someone who costs you the game by not hustling or not caring. (Think Randy Moss with the Raiders here.) Yes, these were brain farts, and the final fumble was indicative of an inability to sense the pressure, but you don't bench a guy for one stupid decision -- especially one which was borne out by hustle and a willingness to sacrifice the body for a first down which likely ends the game.

I'm not "defending" Sage here so much as at least being willing to see his mistakes were mistakes of excessive hustle and willingness to sacrifice the body, and no decent coach would take a guy playing mostly good football for 55 minutes and bench him for one careless moment.

Leahmic223
10-05-2008, 04:30 PM
How was Kubes supposed to know that RonsenFAILS forgot that taking care of the ball was somewhat important?

Exactly...Sage played great until that one part. After that dive turnover, you'd think he'd be more careful...

The1ApplePie
10-05-2008, 04:30 PM
Maybe Kubiak should have kept getting Slaton the ball...

I guess they didn't do that in Denver circa 2003 so why should we do that now?

Leahmic223
10-05-2008, 04:33 PM
Maybe Kubiak should have kept getting Slaton the ball...

I guess they didn't do that in Denver circa 2003 so why should we do that now?

I agree...after the onside kick just run it out...even if they stop you 3 times(which is unlikely) you'd still win the game...

but once again...Sage played GREAT until that point. Kubes probably thought he was beaming with confidence when he called it...Sage probably was beaming with confidence which is why he made that stupid dive.

TexansLucky13
10-05-2008, 04:33 PM
Correction: Four huge mistakes.

One didn't cost us, but the other three combined caused us to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Ugh.

On point, Kubes didn't make the brain farts that Sage did, but he put Sage in the situation three separate times which led to bad plays.

Up two scores, we should have run it three consecutive times and made them spend all of their time outs. Instead, we run twice and then try to get cute. If we punt and make them drive the length of the field, recover an on-side kick, and then drive again to get a field goal (all without any time outs), the worst we can do is go to OT. Brutal, brutal decision making by the head coach.

I haven't been this discouraged since we were on our way to getting the number one pick. By the way, Mario and the D-line had a whale of a game wasted. Fire Kubiak. Fire Richard Smith. Give this organization an enema.

His first fumble was on a naked bootleg, and it was a beautiful play. The problem was that Sage dove for the first instead of sliding and playing ball control.

The play calling in this game was fantastic on offense. Three turnovers by Rosenfels are where the blame should be placed. He failed us.

Kubiak did not lose us this game.

Mailman
10-05-2008, 04:33 PM
+1.

To that point, Sage had been playing good football (though he got lucky to not lose the ball stretching out at the goal line earlier). Few coaches want to bench their QB and completely deflate whatever remaining confidence they have.

The bottom line is that Sage hurt the team by trying to do too much. As much as that sucks, it's better than someone who costs you the game by not hustling or not caring. (Think Randy Moss with the Raiders here.) Yes, these were brain farts, and the final fumble was indicative of an inability to sense the pressure, but you don't bench a guy for one stupid decision -- especially one which was borne out by hustle and a willingness to sacrifice the body for a first down which likely ends the game.

I'm not "defending" Sage here so much as at least being willing to see his mistakes were mistakes of excessive hustle and willingness to sacrifice the body, and no decent coach would take a guy playing mostly good football for 55 minutes and bench him for one careless moment.

I wholeheartedly agree. He was just trying to make a play, get that first down and ice the game. I'm angry at Sage, but at the same time he's a Texan and I can't help but feel sympathy for him. Win as a team, lose as a team.

TheCD
10-05-2008, 04:35 PM
It's understandable to be upset witht he playcalling that put Sage in a position to make that 1st fumble, but I don't disagree with it. The naked bootleg was a perfectly viable option on 3rd down...if the pass isn't there the run should be. They were playing run the whole way, and were it not for Sage fumbling it would have likely been a 1st down. I found the playcalling to be great in this game, I don't understand what everyone's problem is.

Were it not for THREE turnovers by our QB we likely would have won this game by 17 points. Playcalling CANNOT overcome boneheaded moves by players fumbling the ball and throwing it to the other team to seal the loss.

Historyhorn
10-05-2008, 04:38 PM
How was Kubes supposed to know that RonsenFAILS forgot that taking care of the ball was somewhat important?

He didn't, but you could avoid that disaster by running the ball instead of rolling your QB out to pass after he's already showed a penchant for not protecting the football.

I don't see any way Indy wins it outright with the time left on the clock and them having to get two scores and no time outs left. We're up 10 points with 3:54 left to play at their 40. Run the damn ball. Make them use the final time out. Punt. They get the ball with 3:30 left to play and 80 yards or more to go.

They have to get the on-side kick or we run out the clock.

That my friends puts things squarely on Kubiak. Fire his butt.

Mailman
10-05-2008, 04:39 PM
That play call was brilliant. As always, the execution failed at the worst time.

TexansLucky13
10-05-2008, 04:40 PM
He didn't, but you could avoid that disaster by running the ball instead of rolling your QB out to pass after he's already showed a penchant for not protecting the football.

I don't see any way Indy wins it outright with the time left on the clock and them having to get two scores and no time outs left. We're up 10 points with 3:54 left to play at their 40. Run the damn ball. Make them use the final time out. Punt. They get the ball with 3:30 left to play and 80 yards or mo to go.

They have to get the on-side kick or we run out the clock.

That my friends puts things squarely on Kubiak. Fire his butt.

The bootleg was a great play and it would have been just fine is Sage had've just tucked it and hit the turf.

It is moronic, IMO, to blame Kubiak for this. It's so far of a reach that I question your judgment on this matter entirely.

Historyhorn
10-05-2008, 04:41 PM
That play call was brilliant. As always, the execution failed at the worst time.

Sage got hit four yards shy of the first down. Brilliant would have been a TD. Great would have been a 1st down. Good enough to win the game would have been Green or Slaton up the gut.

The1ApplePie
10-05-2008, 04:41 PM
How much would it take to get Cowher out of retirement?

Mailman
10-05-2008, 04:43 PM
Sage got hit four yards shy of the first down. Brilliant would have been a TD. Great would have been a 1st down. Good enough to win the game would have been Green or Slaton up the gut.

No he didn't. He got hit about a yard shy of it, which is why he launched himself in the air. All he had to do was slide and let Turk punt or Brown attempt the FG.

Mr. White
10-05-2008, 04:44 PM
The bottom line is that we were losers when he got hired and we're still losers today. Most other owners would have given the guy the hook by now.

J-Russ
10-05-2008, 04:44 PM
How much would it take to get Cowher out of retirement?

http://youruniversenow.com/sitebuilder/images/BLANK_CHECK-807x328.png

Historyhorn
10-05-2008, 04:44 PM
The bootleg was a great play and it would have been just fine is Sage had've just tucked it and hit the turf.

It is moronic, IMO, to blame Kubiak for this. It's so far of a reach that I question your judgment on this matter entirely.

A great play call is one that catches the D off guard and fools them while you gash them for huge yards. This call didn't even garner enough to get a first down even if Sage had held onto the ball.

We tried to get cute when ugly and safe WINS the damn game. That is the epitome of bad play-calling.

LonerATO
10-05-2008, 04:45 PM
I love how the Falcons and Dolphins look like they never had a losing season last year and their first year coaches look like football gods

TexansLucky13
10-05-2008, 04:45 PM
Sage got hit four yards shy of the first down. Brilliant would have been a TD. Great would have been a 1st down. Good enough to win the game would have been Green or Slaton up the gut.

Good enough would have been Sage sliding and not taking the chance. This is solely on his shoulders. Huge mistake.

TexansLucky13
10-05-2008, 04:46 PM
A great play call is one that catches the D off guard and fools them while you gash them for huge yards. This call didn't even garner enough to get a first down even if Sage had held onto the ball.

We tried to get cute when ugly and safe WINS the damn game. That is the epitome of bad play-calling.

It was only a bad play because he didn't take care of the football! If he had've just slid everything would have been alright.

Twisting this to make it Kubiak's fault is pretty pathetic.

Historyhorn
10-05-2008, 04:47 PM
No he didn't. He got hit about a yard shy of it, which is why he launched himself in the air. All he had to do was slide and let Turk punt or Brown attempt the FG.

He landed about a yard shy of the first down. Unfortunately the ball did too. In someone else's hands. He leaped from a good four yards back because he didn't have it. In spite of fooling everyone with such a "great" playcall. Brilliant, Great, or other superlative adjectives aren't how that call should be labeled.

Leahmic223
10-05-2008, 04:48 PM
Good enough would have been Sage sliding and not taking the chance. This is solely on his shoulders. Huge mistake.

Yeah, this is not on Kubiak in any way.

All Sage had to do was go down and we win that game...

Historyhorn
10-05-2008, 04:50 PM
It was only a bad play because he didn't take care of the football! If he had've just slid everything would have been alright.

Twisting this to make it Kubiak's fault is pretty pathetic.

I need to take you to Vegas with the casinos giving me a cut, because you don't understand odds and risk. You'd bet the house on box cars at the Craps table.

Yes. Had Sage slid, we could have punted and won the game. But why take the risk when you can take the safe play and WIN the game without getting cute.

Mailman
10-05-2008, 04:51 PM
A great play call is one that catches the D off guard and fools them while you gash them for huge yards. This call didn't even garner enough to get a first down even if Sage had held onto the ball.

We tried to get cute when ugly and safe WINS the damn game. That is the epitome of bad play-calling.

What could be safer than a quarterback with plenty of room to run and the option to throw it down the field? What could be safer than putting your quarterback in position to simply slide down if he has to?

Running Slaton or Green up the gut risks a turnover, too. Or do you just assume the defensive players won't be trying to rip it out? Let's say he did make that run call and the ball was ripped loose. I suspect you'd blame Kubiak for that, too.

Htownsportsfan
10-05-2008, 04:51 PM
This is one dumb ass thread!

Team was handing Manning and the Colts an Ass whipping for 55 minutes and Sage screw the pooch trying to do to much. Schaub was sick so you send Sage back out there with ball control on his mind like they did and he screwed the pooch again! He is not fast enough to run away from pursuit with the ball at his hip!


This was a great called game for the most part, runs and passes were equally distributed and and Green was getting some good 5-8 yd gains in the 3rd quarter to burn the clock.

I hate to ever put the blame on one guys but the two turn overs by Sage and the timing of those turn overs was to much to overcome. The int with 50 seconds left sucked but if AJ had not been interfered with at the line he would have been on postion.


Its just a sh!!ty feeling to have a good game get screwed away like that, I am to crushed to even be madd or embarressed just F-in crushed!

Historyhorn
10-05-2008, 04:54 PM
What could be safer than a quarterback with plenty of room to run and the option to throw it down the field? What could be safer than putting your quarterback in position to simply slide down if he has to?

Running Slaton or Green up the gut risks a turnover, too. Or do you just assume the defensive players won't be trying to rip it out? Let's say he did make that run call and the ball was ripped loose. I suspect you'd blame Kubiak for that, too.

Think it goes for a TD from the interior line? I didn't think so.

If they run it up the gut and recover a fumble, that's football. This other thing is errors on the player combined with a HC not taking the safe route.

I remember a HC who used to do the same thing. His name was Makovic. He loved to be cute. Sometimes it works (Steelers Roll Left in the Big XII Championship Game against Nebraska). Other times (more often) it bites you in the butt big time and you lose games you should win.

TexansLucky13
10-05-2008, 04:54 PM
I need to take you to Vegas with the casinos giving me a cut, because you don't understand odds and risk. You'd bet the house on box cars at the Craps table.

Yes. Had Sage slid, we could have punted and won the game. But why take the risk when you can take the safe play and WIN the game without getting cute.

So two runs get stuffed, yet you think the one on 3rd down would've magically worked for the 1st? If not, how is it any different than the bootleg if Sage had've slid??

You can't go back to the playcall on this... it was working just fine until Sage screwed it up.

Scooter
10-05-2008, 04:55 PM
it was great playcalling. incase the hindsighters forgot who we were playing, running 50 seconds off of the clock is wonderful but means little in the grand scheme when peyton can score in 30 seconds. after running nowhere on consecutive plays we perfectly set up play action bootleg where sage could either safely run and slide in space or have a receiver available for a first down to keep the game moving and peyton on the sidelines.

a coach has to trust his players to play smart. i'm as pissed off as anyone but the knee-jerk on the forums calling for somebody's head every 30 seconds and miss placing blame is much more annoying for me than watching the texans give away games.

losing sucks, losing and then reading this crap is more than i care to be a part of.

TexansLucky13
10-05-2008, 04:56 PM
it was great playcalling. incase the hindsighters forgot who we were playing, running 50 seconds off of the clock is wonderful but means little in the grand scheme when peyton can score in 30 seconds. after running nowhere on consecutive plays we perfectly set up play action bootleg where sage could either safely run and slide in space or have a receiver available for a first down to keep the game moving and peyton on the sidelines.

a coach has to trust his players to play smart. i'm as pissed off as anyone but the knee-jerk on the forums calling for somebody's head every 30 seconds and miss placing blame is much more annoying for me than watching the texans give away games.

losing sucks, losing and then reading this crap is more than i care to be a part of.

Great post. Historyhorn, you should take notes.

Historyhorn
10-05-2008, 04:59 PM
Make a different play call and you don't have to be reading these types of posts. Instead, you're celebrating a win.

Mailman
10-05-2008, 04:59 PM
He landed about a yard shy of the first down. Unfortunately the ball did too. In someone else's hands. He leaped from a good four yards back because he didn't have it. In spite of fooling everyone with such a "great" playcall. Brilliant, Great, or other superlative adjectives aren't how that call should be labeled.

I watched the replay again. I was wrong about where he was when the defenders contacted him. Regardless, he had other options. He could've either tucked the ball and slid down OR he could've run left, away from the defenders. For some inexplicable reason Sage decided to do his worst Knowshon Moreno impression. I'm pretty sure that's not part of the play.

TexansLucky13
10-05-2008, 05:02 PM
Make a different play call and you don't have to be reading these types of posts. Instead, you're celebrating a win.

Classic. That's the most intelligent thing I have ever heard. Sign this man up as our next HC.

:sarcasm:

Scooter
10-05-2008, 05:02 PM
Make a different play call and you don't have to be reading these types of posts. Instead, you're celebrating a win.

make a different playcall ... ahman green blows out his knee again, fumbles, and they return for a touchdown.

Mailman
10-05-2008, 05:04 PM
it was great playcalling. incase the hindsighters forgot who we were playing, running 50 seconds off of the clock is wonderful but means little in the grand scheme when peyton can score in 30 seconds. after running nowhere on consecutive plays we perfectly set up play action bootleg where sage could either safely run and slide in space or have a receiver available for a first down to keep the game moving and peyton on the sidelines.

a coach has to trust his players to play smart. i'm as pissed off as anyone but the knee-jerk on the forums calling for somebody's head every 30 seconds and miss placing blame is much more annoying for me than watching the texans give away games.

losing sucks, losing and then reading this crap is more than i care to be a part of.

Exactly.

I'm curious what the coverage looked like downfield on that play as the replay doesn't show it. Sage may have had an opening but decided to play it safe and run only to forget why he was running in the first place.

Historyhorn
10-05-2008, 05:04 PM
Look. No-one is disputing the boneheaded play by Sage. And I hate getting into it with other Texan fans. I get enough crap from Cowboy fans. Maybe too many years coaching JH and HS football means I try to take the safe way.

When you work with kids, you expect them to try to make a play...even if it isn't the smart thing to do. When you have the game won, you try to take as much potential for BIG bad plays out if you can.

I'm just pissed, frustrated, & discouraged.

Leahmic223
10-05-2008, 05:07 PM
Exactly.

I'm curious what the coverage looked like downfield on that play as the replay doesn't show it. Sage may have had an opening but decided to play it safe and run only to forget why he was running in the first place.

who knows what he was thinking. I'm still trying to figure out what he was thinking.

Only thing I can think of is he thought about putting the cherry on top and making a cool dive over 3 LBs to get on Sportscenter.

Dan B.
10-05-2008, 05:10 PM
Look. No-one is disputing the boneheaded play by Sage. And I hate getting into it with other Texan fans. I get enough crap from Cowboy fans. Maybe too many years coaching JH and HS football means I try to take the safe way.

When you work with kids, you expect them to try to make a play...even if it isn't the smart thing to do. When you have the game won, you try to take as much potential for BIG bad plays out if you can.

I'm just pissed, frustrated, & discouraged.

I guess the point is that a naked bootleg is incredibly low risk, about the lowest risk that Kubiak could call. The ball never leaves the QB's hands. About the only way to screw it up is by fumbling the snap from center (something we all know a bit about) or by inexplicably deciding to swan dive with the ball held in one arm.

I think every single player needs to have this tattooed on their foreheads:

Don't Do Anything Stupid.

Scooter
10-05-2008, 05:10 PM
Only thing I can think of is he thought about putting the cherry on top and making a cool dive over 3 LBs to get on Sportscenter.

you've gotta admit, if he would've held onto the ball that play would've been shown for years. hurdle, hangtime, helicopter ... up until the ball popped out that was a lot of fun to watch.

Historyhorn
10-05-2008, 05:12 PM
QB sneak. FB dive. Lead plays.

Sage had a pass/run option. The play wasn't designed for him to keep the ball as the number one option.

Leahmic223
10-05-2008, 05:15 PM
you've gotta admit, if he would've held onto the ball that play would've been shown for years. hurdle, hangtime, helicopter ... up until the ball popped out that was a lot of fun to watch.

Yeah, it was looking good...it just ended horribly. I was actually okay with that at first...I didn't think he'd go out there and fumble it AGAIN though, I was positive we'd go back down the field and score.

Dan B.
10-05-2008, 05:18 PM
QB sneak. FB dive. Lead plays.

Sage had a pass/run option. The play wasn't designed for him to keep the ball as the number one option.

Sure. You are trusting Sage to not throw into anything resembling coverage. And also trusting him to tuck and dive or run out of bounds. The chance of a fumble on a QB sneak is higher, and the chance of a play that gains the first is lower as well.

I will say this. If Kubiak had called for a QB sneak or dive play on 3rd and a long 4 I would probably be taking your side in the argument. Those plays are designed for 2 yards max and make far less sense IMO.

utahmark
10-05-2008, 05:21 PM
I guess the point is that a naked bootleg is incredibly low risk, about the lowest risk that Kubiak could call. The ball never leaves the QB's hands. About the only way to screw it up is by fumbling the snap from center (something we all know a bit about) or by inexplicably deciding to swan dive with the ball held in one arm.

I think every single player needs to have this tattooed on their foreheads:

Don't Do Anything Stupid.


not on there foreheads. they wont be able to see it during the game.

Dan B.
10-05-2008, 05:24 PM
not on there foreheads. they wont be able to see it during the game.

lol well they can see all their teammates at least.

Maybe put a mirror in the helmet?

BattleRedRaider
10-05-2008, 05:24 PM
not on there foreheads. they wont be able to see it during the game.

Get the fans to chant it?

Mailman
10-05-2008, 05:27 PM
you've gotta admit, if he would've held onto the ball that play would've been shown for years. hurdle, hangtime, helicopter ... up until the ball popped out that was a lot of fun to watch.

Even if he hadn't fumbled, it was incredibly stupid of him to expose himself that way. When he went airborne all I could think of was our only backup quarterback having to go on IR for a season-ending decapitation injury. And then he fumbled instead.

Now I'm not sure which result I would've preferred.

Scooter
10-05-2008, 05:29 PM
definitely stupid in any situation. exciting and crazy though.

Tailgate
10-05-2008, 05:47 PM
Here we go. I was soooo close to start buying into everything that excuses Kubiak just now. I actually just caught myself. But you know what.. we are 0-4 and his name has come up waaaaaaay to fricking often for me to give him a pass anymore. There is only so much coincidence that he can hide behind.

Honoring Earl 34
10-05-2008, 05:52 PM
Let's hire Mike Munchak as head coach .

At the very least we screw Bud .

ATXtexanfan
10-05-2008, 06:30 PM
I don't think you can put this game on kubiak

Vinny
10-05-2008, 06:31 PM
I don't think you can put this game on kubiakmost coaches would have run the ball...but we don't know how to win a game

Honoring Earl 34
10-05-2008, 06:38 PM
most coaches would have run the ball...but we don't know how to win a game

What about when we were ahead 27-10 and let them go right down the field . We had been getting pressure until we pulled back .

Then we ran it twice after the onside kick ... causing them to use 2 TOs . If Sage slides ... are'nt we in field goal range ?

I think to be a top notch team ... you get that 1st down on the Sage in Flight sreies and put it away .

grinch1134
10-05-2008, 06:45 PM
I wouldn't put this on the coach, only on a selfish back up QB.

TexansLucky13
10-05-2008, 06:46 PM
most coaches would have run the ball...but we don't know how to win a game

We did run the ball (on a naked bootleg where he had options)... Sage chose to (put himself in a position to) fumble it away.

htexfan
10-05-2008, 07:05 PM
Kubiak is not to blame for losing this one. Sage lost it for us on a couple of stupid plays. You must remember though that Sage is the reason we were doing so well up to that point. I don't care if he did make those stupid moves...Sage is the better qb for this team. The team plays much better with him in. Granted it was heartbreaking to watch but Shaub has been way too inconsistant and just flat terrible at times. If it were not for his last five min of play he would have been the savior.

utahmark
10-05-2008, 07:06 PM
you guys can argue about that one play all you want. if we win its not even talked about. if we run the ball and manning brings them back and then they recover the onside and win its all because we got to consevative. there are going to be plays where people question the play calling, its football. the question is are we getting better. while we are playing better there is a big problem. we keep losing and players are gonna quit responding to the coaches and once players stop listening to the coaching staff it all over.

personally i think kubes is the right guy and the wins will come. but i thought carr was a good quarterback.

The1ApplePie
10-05-2008, 07:09 PM
I don't think Gary's "QB Guru" rep is going to escape Houston

Carr = Bust
Schaub = Pansy
Sage = *****
Brink = LOL
Van Pelt = LOL
Zabransky = "**** the practice squad!"

grinch1134
10-05-2008, 07:09 PM
Kubiak is not to blame for losing this one. Sage lost it for us on a couple of stupid plays. You must remember though that Sage is the reason we were doing so well up to that point. I don't care if he did make those stupid moves...Sage is the better qb for this team. The team plays much better with him in. Granted it was heartbreaking to watch but Shaub has been way too inconsistant and just flat terrible at times. If it were not for his last five min of play he would have been the savior.

But that is where you are wrong the team was playing great as was Sage. The team was beating the Colts. The D was there the O was there. All pieces working together. Sage, and Sage by himself, decided to try and make this about him and that makes him the most selfish player that took the field. He erased all good deeds with his selfish watch me win this starting job meltdown.

That was TO type playing at the backup QB position for us today.

TexansLucky13
10-05-2008, 07:15 PM
But that is where you are wrong the team was playing great as was Sage. The team was beating the Colts. The D was there the O was there. All pieces working together. Sage, and Sage by himself, decided to try and make this about him and that makes him the most selfish player that took the field. He erased all good deeds with his selfish watch me win this starting job meltdown.

That was TO type playing at the backup QB position for us today.

To be honest I don't know what to think about "why" he did what he did. I will get to that later. Right now I want to stress the fact that this game rests solely with Sage Rosenfels.

Sage would have won this game for us. It would have been his win, and I guarantee you a controversy would have spawned (not just a MB one, a real one, IMO). Just like he would have led us to victory, he led us to failure. As QB he takes the full brunt of this... and rightfully so.

BSofA04
10-05-2008, 07:20 PM
To be honest I don't know what to think about "why" he did what he did. I will get to that later. Right now I want to stress the fact that this game rests solely with Sage Rosenfels.

Sage would have won this game for us. It would have been his win, and I guarantee you a controversy would have spawned (not just a MB one, a real one, IMO). Just like he would have led us to victory, he led us to failure. As QB he takes the full brunt of this... and rightfully so.

Very true. Tough loss on some BONE-HEADED mistakes. But if anyone is going to get the ax after these first four game, it's either Richard Smith or Kubiak. I still want to believe in Kubiak, but I'm getting a sneaky suspision that he's just not cut out to be a head coach. =( Great guy but maybe too soft.

TexansLucky13
10-05-2008, 07:26 PM
Very true. Tough loss on some BONE-HEADED mistakes. But if anyone is going to get the ax after these first four game, it's either Richard Smith or Kubiak. I still want to believe in Kubiak, but I'm getting a sneaky suspision that he's just not cut out to be a head coach. =( Great guy but maybe too soft.

It definitely may be true that Kubiak isn't suited for HC, but so far we really can't be 100% sure. I'll admit that it doesn't look too good for him right now, though. I am pretty confident that he will be here for the rest of this season... as for Richard Smith, that's a different story. Obviously my soap says it all.

Nawzer
10-05-2008, 07:33 PM
Cannot blame Kubiak on this one. It lies squarely on the shoulders of Sage Rosenfels. I thought Kubiak should've called more running plays. If you can't run against the Colts you can't run against anyone. But overall Kubiak is not responsible for this one. Blame Rosenfels.

TEXANRED
10-05-2008, 07:42 PM
Let's hire Mike Munchak as head coach .

At the very least we screw Bud .


Sign him up

I don't think you can put this game on kubiak
most coaches would have run the ball...but we don't know how to win a game

I am going to have to agree with Vinny on this one. Kubes called a beautiful game till the end. After the first fumble we still should have went back to running the ball. We still had the lead, we had the home field advantage, and we had time on our side. Sage had no business dropping back when he fumbled the second time. Kubiak panicked.

I would honestly hate to see Kubiak go. I like the guy. He is a Houstonian. He grew up in the neighborhoods many of us walk. I go to the luncheons every year and listen to him speak and its encouraging. He has done some good stuff. He almost had this team turn the corner. But in the end, he is Dom Capers with his mouth shut.

The only way I see Kubes staying is if he either fires little Shanny and hires someone to call the plays, or turn the reigns over to Shanny. I think a lack of sleep and the long hours a head coach puts in has impaired his decision making.

Mailman
10-05-2008, 07:47 PM
Kubiak opted to pass in that situation because the Texans were inside their own red zone and the running plays were getting stuffed. He called a safe slant to Slaton on 2nd and 8 that Rosenfels threw behind him, putting the offense in a third and passing situation. If he calls a running play on third down, the Colts most likely force a punt with just the right amount of time for Manning to dink and dunk us to death, drain all the life out of the clock, and score the winning TD.

dickieb
10-05-2008, 07:49 PM
Yeah we are 0-4 because of Sage - bull$hit. If he would have gotten that first down people would be talking about how awesome it was. I don't blame him for the helicopter jump. Kubiak gave him the ball and allowed him to make the decision to run or throw. Kubiak has shown that while he may be a great offensive coordinator - he just can't cut it as a head coach. He has faith in crappy assistants he dosen't stand up and do what's best for the team. He brings in old broncos and ex-teamates kids for players. Where is D. Walker and S. Boyd what have they done not to deserve a place on the team? He cannot manage game situations from challenges to playcalling with a lead to having the team prepared to play. All he had to do was let the kid with 94 yards and 2 TD's run the ball. Hell even A. Grenn could have run out the clock. You put the ball in the hands of players who are used to running with the ball not a qb. I do blame sage for the last fumble - but the playcalls should have been to handoff up the middle. We are 0-4 because our HC sucks - how many passes does he get. I wonder how much control Kubiak has over the defensive philosohy - probably a lot. We are 0-4 some games because we were not prepared others because of offense other because of defense - the one constant is the Head Coach is still Gary Kubiak (I used to be a supporter - no more)!

TEXANRED
10-05-2008, 07:49 PM
Kubiak opted to pass in that situation because the Texans were inside their own red zone and the running plays were getting stuffed. He called a safe slant to Slaton on 2nd and 8 that Rosenfels threw behind him, putting the offense in a third and passing situation. If he calls a running play on third down, the Colts most likely force a punt with just the right amount of time for Manning to dink and dunk us to death, drain all the life out of the clock, and score the winning TD.

He should have run the ball and punted. Our D was stopping them all day.

Mailman
10-05-2008, 07:52 PM
He should have run the ball and punted. Our D was stopping them all day.

Except for that long drive in the fourth quarter that made it a ten-point game.

Cmon. We're talking about Peyton Manning. He's done it against way better defenses.

kcdoubleeagle
10-05-2008, 07:55 PM
Two Words

Cow-Her

TexansLucky13
10-05-2008, 08:06 PM
We can go back and forth on this for hours, but this is and will be the only conclusion.... we lost this game because of mistakes. It's pointless to question the play call when we can clearly see that our loss is attributable to a lack of execution (as much as we hate that term). Mental error on the part of Sage is overwhelmingly at fault.

MEGA SWATT
10-05-2008, 08:08 PM
Two Words

Cow-Her

He nor J.Johnson would even give it a seconds thought.

grinch1134
10-05-2008, 08:08 PM
If he would have gotten that first down people would be talking about how awesome it was. I don't blame him for the helicopter jump.


Yes and if I got paid for every crap I took I would be a millionare. He didn't make the play, so this is what we are all talking about. Everyone in the booth and post game said why don't you slide and take the first down. But super Sage had to do it all. The HC in post game said it was a simple naked boot not a let me fly like super grover.

Mailman
10-05-2008, 08:14 PM
Even if he had made the first down, I'd use it against him in the "Start Sage!!" threads that would've followed because that's just plain foolish under the circumstances. Kinda like the way he held the ball out near the goal line to get that first down. Yes, he got the first down, but the result didn't make it a wise play.

Hervoyel
10-05-2008, 08:24 PM
Kubiak should have benched Sage after he tried to leap over 3 LB's like he was Elway or something. This was done after he held that ball out in the open during that QB sneak......in which case I'm SURE the coaches told him to not do dumb stuff like that anymore & protect the ball. And if the coaches did NOT tell him that, then that is just another reason to get rid of Kubiak. Kubiak has to own up to some of this fiasco........not protecting the football is unacceptable.......that is Kubiak's own words from when Carr was giving it up. When sage went haywire the 1st time, he should have been removed from the game. Kubiak should lose his job over this, so should Sage. Only action such as this would convince the rest of the team that protecting the football is job #1 for any team at ANY level. I imagine right now the team probably thinks protecting the football is the last thing they need to do.......after watching this fiasco.:jogger:

You want to fire Gary Kubiak because he didn't bench Sage after his fumble? Who did you think he was going to put in there? Schaub barely looked like he was awake on the sideline much less ready to come in the game.

Kubiak needed only to bite a giant hole in Sage's ass for that idiotic decision and then he should have sent him back out there just like he did with explicit instructions to take care of the ball. For all we know that's exactly what he did. What we do know is that Sage did not take care of the ball and so with some really pathetic play he managed to do what the Colts seemed incapable of doing today. He stopped the Texans from getting their first win.

I wouldn't fire Gary Kubiak for today. I wouldn't even think of it. It would be a cold day in hell before Sage Rosenfels held my teams fate in his hands but I wouldn't fire the coach. I wouldn't even cut Sage. Who are we going to put in his place at this late date?

What I'm most angry about today is that we could have traded that stupid son of a ***** in the off-season and the Texans wouldn't pull the trigger because they thought he was "special" or something. I'm filled with disgust when I think of the Texans not having another 3rd rounder because they kept Sage "f'n" Rosenfels (just in case!) to come out and deliver this crap performance.

Nice move Texans. You really showed the rest of the league that you weren't going to just give away this special needs dipstick for nothing. You wanted value for Sage. Good for you. Hope you enjoyed your value.

kcdoubleeagle
10-05-2008, 08:27 PM
He nor J.Johnson would even give it a seconds thought.


do the Texans organization have that bad of a rep? why wouldn't he come here? From what I understand...he is expected to get back into coaching sooner than later.

sometexansfan
10-05-2008, 08:28 PM
No way Kubiak is to blame for this loss. He had a great game plan and the team came to play. Kubes did his job, Sage just forgot rule number one of his, PROTECT THE BALL!!!

dskillz
10-05-2008, 08:47 PM
No way Kubiak is to blame for this loss. He had a great game plan and the team came to play. Kubes did his job, Sage just forgot rule number one of his, PROTECT THE BALL!!!

So why do you throw the ball with 4 minutes left in the game with a 17 point lead? Seriously. Why do you do that?

It isn't just that though. The fact that Kubiak didn't learn his lesson by having Sage throw AGAIN right after turning the ball over tells me he has some bad judgement. Every other coach in the NFL would have run the clock, not try to throw the ball. Kubiak has to be on the hot seat. If Cowher even acts like he wants to coach next year, McNair has to give him a call.

Second Honeymoon
10-05-2008, 09:12 PM
Kubiak sucks...as if this should be news to anyone.

Why this guy still collects a paycheck is beyond me...can we finally all agree that this guy is never going to lead us to anywhere of consequence.

I foresee a 3-13 season and if McNair doesn't fire his sorry arse, he needs to just sell the freaking team. Maybe Congress can bail his out too.

KUBIAK SUCKS
SMITH SUCKS
MCNAIR SUCKS
and THE TEXANS SUCK

period

LonerATO
10-05-2008, 09:13 PM
wait which Smith?

Kaiser Toro
10-05-2008, 09:20 PM
Before the Rosencopter took off I was pissed at how cute our play calling was when we just needed to shove the ball down their throat. The offensive play calling was putrid, when all it had to be was vanilla to get the victory.

I would not be surprised if Kubiak lost the team after this week. I have no faith in this team other than finding new and exciting ways to mock me for my investment in dollars and time.

That was as heartbreaking of a loss I have ever been a part of as a fan, but I totally expected it once the cuteness came to life in the form of the play calling.

Once again the defense was unable to make a stop when we needed them to.

Second Honeymoon
10-05-2008, 09:20 PM
wait which Smith?

i like Rick, but at this point you can take your pick.

LonerATO
10-05-2008, 09:22 PM
We should only keep Rick Smith

BSofA04
10-05-2008, 09:23 PM
Before the Rosencopter took off I was pissed at how cute our play calling was when we just needed to shove the ball down their throat. The offensive play calling was putrid, when all it had to be was vanilla to get the victory.

I would not be surprised if Kubiak lost the team after this week. I have no faith in this team other than finding new and exciting ways to mock me for my investment in dollars and time.

That was as heartbreaking of a loss I have ever been a part of as a fan, but I totally expected it once the cuteness came to life in the form of the play calling.

Once again the defense was unable to make a stop when we needed them to.

I agree with your Kubiak take because it's feasible to see the team begin to revolt. However, I don't think the defense was at fault today. They were put in some ugly positions at the end of the game and did a decent job at making Manning eat up ~5 minutes before they scored the first TD. The third was inevitable thanks to Sage.

Runner
10-05-2008, 09:24 PM
We should only keep Rick Smith

I don't know why this guy keeps getting a pass. How many years does he get before the talent level has something to do with him? Fans thought the "Smithiak" team was great because it was a team working together. I think it is - both of them are responsible for the state of the franchise.

Showtime100
10-05-2008, 09:25 PM
We should only keep Rick Smith

:spit:

bigfan77801
10-05-2008, 09:25 PM
Hey, lets go get Jimmy McGinty, look what he did in Washington, as long as we are throwing coaching changes that aren't going to happen.

LonerATO
10-05-2008, 09:27 PM
Ok ok I take it back I was just trying to find something in the Texans organization to hold onto.

Kaiser Toro
10-05-2008, 09:31 PM
I agree with your Kubiak take because it's feasible to see the team begin to revolt. However, I don't think the defense was at fault today. They were put in some ugly positions at the end of the game and did a decent job at making Manning eat up ~5 minutes before they scored the first TD. The third was inevitable thanks to Sage.

The defense was fine today, but still not good enough.

This team has not learned how to win, and frankly not sure if Kubiak will have enough time to learn from these losses.

The Dolphins, Lions & Bengals are must wins for Kubiak in my opinion. We have never won three games in a row before and to do so would be the only thing to show me we have made progress on the field during his tenure.

We have not hit bottom, but we are certainly close.

Honoring Earl 34
10-05-2008, 09:35 PM
The defense was fine today, but still not good enough.

This team has not learned how to win, and frankly not sure if Kubiak will have enough time to learn from these losses.

The Dolphins, Lions & Bengals are must wins for Kubiak in my opinion. We have never won three games in a row before and to do so would be the only thing to show me we have made progress on the field during his tenure.

We have not hit bottom, but we are certainly close.

I may be wrong but with economy going south folks may decide it's not worth the money . I'm sure you'll have your diehards but I bet some fans make sacrifices in other areas in order to go to games .

LonerATO
10-05-2008, 09:40 PM
I may be wrong but with economy going south folks may decide it's not worth the money . I'm sure you'll have your diehards but I bet some fans make sacrifices in other areas in order to go to games .

Actually most normal fans cant pay the ticket prices now so makes no difference and can we please stop bringing in the economy into these threads as it is a step away from reality for me.

Kaiser Toro
10-05-2008, 09:40 PM
I may be wrong but with economy going south folks may decide it's not worth the money . I'm sure you'll have your diehards but I bet some fans make sacrifices in other areas in order to go to games .

The stadium was about 80% full today. If we lose next week I fully expect 50% capacity, at the most, for the Lions.

Runner
10-05-2008, 09:43 PM
The stadium was about 80% full today.

Some reporter said that on ESPN.com. He also said that this was the biggest regular season comeback with 5 minutes to go in NFL history.

Honoring Earl 34
10-05-2008, 09:44 PM
The stadium was about 80% full today. If we lose next week I fully expect 50% capacity, at the most, for the Lions.

What a freakin mess .

Porky
10-05-2008, 09:50 PM
Kubiak sucks...as if this should be news to anyone.

Why this guy still collects a paycheck is beyond me...can we finally all agree that this guy is never going to lead us to anywhere of consequence.

I foresee a 3-13 season and if McNair doesn't fire his sorry arse, he needs to just sell the freaking team. Maybe Congress can bail his out too.

KUBIAK SUCKS
SMITH SUCKS
MCNAIR SUCKS
and THE TEXANS SUCK

period

After today, I'm ready to fire the peanut vendor on the mezzanine level. This team sucks from the top down, and like any rotting corpse, you start by cutting off the head. That means you Mcnair. Sell this franchise to someone who knows what it takes to put a winner on the field. I have about had it with the whole bunch of you losers.

I'll make it simple - Fire them all.

And start with Sage, who should have his walking papers tomorrow morning.

utahmark
10-05-2008, 09:59 PM
So why do you throw the ball with 4 minutes left in the game with a 17 point lead? Seriously. Why do you do that?

It isn't just that though. The fact that Kubiak didn't learn his lesson by having Sage throw AGAIN right after turning the ball over tells me he has some bad judgement. Every other coach in the NFL would have run the clock, not try to throw the ball. Kubiak has to be on the hot seat. If Cowher even acts like he wants to coach next year, McNair has to give him a call.

he didnt call a pass play. it was a bootleg and he told sage not to throw it. and on the next series you want to just run it 3 times up the middle and give payton the ball back with 2 min left against our defense. glad your not the coach.

LonerATO
10-05-2008, 10:03 PM
he didnt call a pass play. it was a bootleg and he told sage not to throw it. and on the next series you want to just run it 3 times up the middle and give payton the ball back with 2 min left against our defense. glad your not the coach.

Colts could have scored a td on that drive if we kicked it but then they would have had to go for an onside kick to get the ball back so we could have run the clock out.

TEXANRED
10-05-2008, 10:06 PM
he didnt call a pass play. it was a bootleg and he told sage not to throw it. and on the next series you want to just run it 3 times up the middle and give payton the ball back with 2 min left against our defense. glad your not the coach.

That is exactly what he should have done. Its 27-17 with 4 minutes left and the Colts without a time out. Its a two score game at that point and except for that last drive that the D went into prevent, we had stopped them all day.

Thats how you win games in the NFL.

Instead we lost this game b/c of one man. Two fumbles and a pick in 4 minutes.

imatexan
10-05-2008, 10:14 PM
Some reporter said that on ESPN.com. He also said that this was the biggest regular season comeback with 5 minutes to go in NFL history.

Place was full at one point, end of story. Not the whole game or anything like that but the showing was great.

Kaiser Toro
10-05-2008, 10:15 PM
Place was full at one point, end of story. Not the whole game or anything like that but the showing was great.

What place was full? The stadium at no point was full. It was loud, but not full.

LonerATO
10-05-2008, 10:18 PM
A sellout isnt the same as a full stadium and McNair being proud of sellouts is lame. The reason we havent had a full stadium in a long time is because we can freaking win a game

imatexan
10-05-2008, 10:24 PM
I have pictures if you like in the 3rd quarter it was full, there will always be some empty seats but it was full.

utahmark
10-05-2008, 11:11 PM
That is exactly what he should have done. Its 27-17 with 4 minutes left and the Colts without a time out. Its a two score game at that point and except for that last drive that the D went into prevent, we had stopped them all day.

Thats how you win games in the NFL.

Instead we lost this game b/c of one man. Two fumbles and a pick in 4 minutes.

you guys dont seem to understand. he ran the ball 3 straight times when we were up by 10. the play sage went airborn was a designed run. the next series we didnt run, we tried to get a first down. as we should have.

Blake
10-05-2008, 11:27 PM
Ill throw in my 2 cents.

Sage had a good game. He had a monuments collapse, but overall I liked what I saw. We were a real offense during the first 56 minutes.

Sage trying to pull a John Elway in the Superbowl, then getting striped, then throwing a pick was just plain sloppy.

But Sage at the helm and getting beat by a furious comeback is better than Schaub at the helm and never even having the lead.

Let me say that again...


But Sage at the helm and getting beat by a furious comeback is better than Schaub at the helm and never even having the lead.

Personally I would have ran the ball and made the defense stop me first. We were running the ball well all day and should have kept that up. Then if I did have to punt, or give the ball back for whatever reason make their offense work their way down the field if they want points.

On the 2nd fumble, tell me again why we trusted a QB who just got obliterated with the football? Dont we have running backs who's job it is to secure the football to give it to? Make the colts use their last timeout, and the 2 minute warning. Run more time off the clock and kick it if you have to. Hell, maybe Slaton gets us a first down and game over. If not then punt it and hope that we can hold them.

I was wondering where the other 10 players were when Sage was running down the field and fumbled. Maybe they should focus on being aware of where the football is and try to be around it in case it does pop out? Just thinking out loud.

Im going to blame this loss on poor game management skills. Sage is my starter from now on, but learn from this and secure the win next time. Dont get cute and dont throw/run with the QB when up by 17 points with 4 minutes to go.

Stampede
10-06-2008, 12:04 AM
do the Texans organization have that bad of a rep? why wouldn't he come here? From what I understand...he is expected to get back into coaching sooner than later.

Because Houston is the twilight zone of professional football.

Vinny
10-06-2008, 12:53 AM
Ill throw in my 2 cents.

Sage had a good game. He had a monuments collapse, but overall I liked what I saw. We were a real offense during the first 56 minutes.

Sage trying to pull a John Elway in the Superbowl, then getting striped, then throwing a pick was just plain sloppy.

But Sage at the helm and getting beat by a furious comeback is better than Schaub at the helm and never even having the lead.

Let me say that again...


But Sage at the helm and getting beat by a furious comeback is better than Schaub at the helm and never even having the lead.


LOL at furious comeback. This game was given away by a team that makes idiotic coaching decisions and has no clue what it takes to win in the NFL. Last week Kubiak blows it on the 4th downs as he panics in the 3rd period by passing up the FG's and destroys our teams chances later in the game. Then this week he gives up the biggest lead ever in the history of NFL regulation with 4 mins left because he can't run the ball 3 times and punt or kick a field goal. He didn't have to "win the game" at that point...just not lose it. pathetic.

Napa Auto Parts
10-06-2008, 01:37 AM
why in the hell was Kubiak even attempt a pass when youve been having so much succes with the running game im reffering to the last 5 minutes we Definitely need Bill Cowher a coach that knows how to run a damn football team.

BigBull17
10-06-2008, 07:13 AM
I'm about as Pro-Kubiak as they come, and I have to put some of this loss on his playcalling.

No way we should have been doing anything but running the ball up into the pile at the end of the game.

You're the same guy who would ***** for a month if Kudes had run the ball up the middle every play and we had lost. You cant coast on Indy, they have scary offensive potential when you give them too many chances. He called a great game, one man just completly gave this game away. Period.

hobie
10-06-2008, 07:27 AM
I have pictures if you like in the 3rd quarter it was full, there will always be some empty seats but it was full.

I agree with Kaiser, by no means was it full, shoot, 1/2 way thru the 2nd qtr. I told my wife that this being the home opener and the Colts in town, I would have thought it would have been packed....I am sorry, it was not full at all, and the 80% # sounds about right !!

RTP2110
10-06-2008, 07:37 AM
I agree with Kaiser, by no means was it full, shoot, 1/2 way thru the 2nd qtr. I told my wife that this being the home opener and the Colts in town, I would have thought it would have been packed....I am sorry, it was not full at all, and the 80% # sounds about right !!

It was a full house from what I saw. Most people missing in the bottom 2 sections were in the concourses, staying out of the sun.


But to stay on topic, I don't think GK should be fired. I think he has a lot to learn, but he will get there.

HoustonFrog
10-06-2008, 07:40 AM
I actually think the play action pass where the ball was fumbled and returned for a TD was a good call. Sage just tried to do something unnecessary and stupid.

Buffi2
10-06-2008, 08:52 AM
Change is not always a good thing unless you are talking about our current DC. Sometimes there is something to be said for keeping the same folks together. Change means becoming accustomed to a whole new way of doing things.....again.

While I will admit that yesterday was the first time in lo these many years I even thought about selling/not renewing my psls - I also think that we are close. Not close enough, but close. We have played two games where we hung in there with the big guys. Yes, we blew it...twice - but we did hang in there until the end. All we have to do now is learn to finish it out.

Before I get jumped on by 4000 folks - just think of years' past when we weren't even playing the same game - we weren't even on the same field - we weren't even a real NFL team. Now, we are playing like a real NFL team...for 55 minutes anyway. That is an improvement in and of itself.

While I'm playing Pollyanna...I thought the crowd was fantastic yesterday. There wasn't a mass exodus at the end of the third quarter, the stands looked pretty full from my vantage point, and we were loud - really loud.

Kaiser Toro
10-06-2008, 09:00 AM
Change is not always a good thing unless you are talking about our current DC. Sometimes there is something to be said for keeping the same folks together. Change means becoming accustomed to a whole new way of doing things.....again.

While I will admit that yesterday was the first time in lo these many years I even thought about selling/not renewing my psls - I also think that we are close. Not close enough, but close. We have played two games where we hung in there with the big guys. Yes, we blew it...twice - but we did hang in there until the end. All we have to do now is learn to finish it out.

Before I get jumped on by 4000 folks - just think of years' past when we weren't even playing the same game - we weren't even on the same field - we weren't even a real NFL team. Now, we are playing like a real NFL team...for 55 minutes anyway. That is an improvement in and of itself.

While I'm playing Pollyanna...I thought the crowd was fantastic yesterday. There wasn't a mass exodus at the end of the third quarter, the stands looked pretty full from my vantage point, and we were loud - really loud.

I agree with your take, but I have been here before with this team and see the same thing about to happen. Next week is a must win, I hope someone echoes that in the locker room or on the staff. Anyone that does not feel that way is way to comfortable.

Porky
10-06-2008, 10:21 AM
Ill throw in my 2 cents.

Sage had a good game. He had a monuments collapse, but overall I liked what I saw. We were a real offense during the first 56 minutes.

Sage trying to pull a John Elway in the Superbowl, then getting striped, then throwing a pick was just plain sloppy.

But Sage at the helm and getting beat by a furious comeback is better than Schaub at the helm and never even having the lead.

Let me say that again...


But Sage at the helm and getting beat by a furious comeback is better than Schaub at the helm and never even having the lead.


Did you watch the Jax game? Schaub got the lead repeatedly. Last time I looked Schaub doesn't play corneback. Lame, lame, lame excuses by our lame, lame, lame fanbase so used to losing that when they are handed a spam sandwich covered in dogcrap, they are just happy it wasn't pissed on to boot.

utahmark
10-06-2008, 10:22 AM
It was a full house from what I saw. Most people missing in the bottom 2 sections were in the concourses, staying out of the sun.


But to stay on topic, I don't think GK should be fired. I think he has a lot to learn, but he will get there.

he better get there quick.

dskillz
10-06-2008, 10:26 AM
I think the issue is that Kubiak is learning on the job. Yet fans are being asked to pay and be patient until he gets it. Not sure as an owner I would be fine with this too much longer. I would think it would be worth a call to Bill Cowher just to see what his price tag would be.

If you look at results, this regime is no better than the Capers one. We all want to rag on Dom and Charley, but the high mark for them was 7-9, The high mark for Kubiak so far has been 8-8. Not much difference when you look at results.

Texecutioner
10-06-2008, 10:42 AM
I can't believe anyone would want this Kubiak guy as the head coach any more after what we've seen this season. Folks in here talking about "Well we looked like a real football team". That is purely sad that any fans would be content to say something like that about a team and a coach in it's third season under this regime. That is about as bad of a loser mentality as you can get.

Under Capers we went 7-9 and then had our really poor season after that. Well right now we're 0-4 and have completely found ways to lose games. That completely tells you that their is still a losing culture here and Kubiak has not changed anything. He hasn't brought any swagger here, he hasn't made our running game any better like everyone proclaimed. All he's done is come up with excuses and and made several coaching blunders this season. Other teams don't constantly do this. Hell, Miami and Atlanta have already improved more than we have and Atlanta is playing with a rookie QB for god sakes.

We're right there with the Lions and have been since year one of this franchise. That is the truth, and I don't care who argues that or what kind of homers jump to the defense. Look at the records from year to year and we've got a few more wins and that's it.

Until we get a real head coach in here that can change this culture and develops a REFUSE TO LOSE mentality, the Texas will still be disappointing people like this and floating around at best. I haven't liked Kubiak since the end of year one, and being 0-4 going into year 3 is full proof that this guy isn't the guy to get us out of the cellar. I don't care about what any QB did or didn't do, the team still finds ways to lose and good teams that are well coached don't consistently do that. They find ways to win, not the opposite.

Second Honeymoon
10-06-2008, 10:54 AM
the whole thing is that this is Year 3. 3 years is what you get in the NFL. If you can't turn it around in 3 years, find someone who can. Kubiak was a lowball cheap hire who had local ties and that was how it was sold to the public. The guy even had to tell McNair he was willing to work with David Carr as his starter with the max team option.

gary is a great guy and a good coordinator, but its painfully obvious he is a below average head coach and when head coaching is so damn important in the NFL, you can't have a guy like Kubiak as your head coach. Get someone who can get the job done.

People are starting to promote Marty Schottenheimer as a possible replacement. I have been more on the Cowher bandwagon but I think Marty may be a more likely guy due to Cowher pretty much having his choice of gigs.

Seattle is going to have an opening. Cincy and KC maybe. Detroit. St.Louis. Houston. Cleveland. maybe even Green Bay has a GM and HC job available after their Favre debacle. Dallas could even be looking. That is a lot of jobs. Cowher may not feel Houston is the best fit. Marty may be willing to accept the challenge (and the huge $$) and come here and make it happen.

Polo
10-06-2008, 10:58 AM
LOL @ you guys loving Cowher but wanting Kubiak gone after three years where he's steadily increased the record....

How many years of being "good but not great" did the Steelers endure with Cowher ?

Oh how quickly we forget the wonderful years of Kordell Stewart...

Texan_Bill
10-06-2008, 11:02 AM
LOL @ you guys loving Cowher but wanting Kubiak gone after three years where he's steadily increased the record....

How many years of being "good but not great" did the Steelers endure with Cowher ?

But Polo, nothing spells 'stabilitly' like having three HC's in less than 10 years..:cowboy1:

Second Honeymoon
10-06-2008, 11:05 AM
LOL @ you guys loving Cowher but wanting Kubiak gone after three years where he's steadily increased the record....

How many years of being "good but not great" did the Steelers endure with Cowher ?

steadily increasing the record? since when is having zero wins increasing the record?

its fine though. if you think Kubiak has proven to you that he can lead a team to the playoffs and build a winner, that is fine. I ain't buying it though. He has done nothing to show me that he will get the job done. Knowing that, I feel we need to find someone who can.

as for how many years of being good but not great did the Steelers endure under Cowher? how is that even relevant. are you saying the Texans have had good but not great seasons under Kubiak? are you seriously saying that?

we are the laughingstock of the league right about now...who is going to want to come here? who is going to want to stay here? this is a sideshow spectacle of losing football.

I like Gary and its not all on him, but he has not shown anything to merit him getting a 4th year. Maybe they can turn it around this year, but that time has pretty much come and gone. If Gary can find a way to lead this team to 5 wins or more, maybe he gets a short leash next year and is kept around, but I think 5 wins is a bit optimistic.

I am thinking 3-13 right about now....maybe even 2-14. a loss like this just destroys a team's morale and with us having no bye week, there is no real opportunity to regroup and start anew. this was just the beginning of a true marathon and we just got kicked in the nuts.

TexansSeminole
10-06-2008, 11:06 AM
LOL @ you guys loving Cowher but wanting Kubiak gone after three years where he's steadily increased the record....

How many years of being "good but not great" did the Steelers endure with Cowher ?


The problem is that we've never been considered good.

We were lucky to be 8-8 last year. We've started 0-4 here. We have not won a game yet this season and we are about to hit the second week of October. Kubiak has made bonehead coaching/gameplan decisions in every game thus far. If Kubiak doesn't drastically turn this thing around I think he should be fired. He has shown nothing as a HC. He may not be as inept as Capers, but what is that really saying? He was supposed to be the QB guy. The guy to get our QBs ready to play, yet he has failed with Carr, Rosenfels, and Schaub is still a toss up.

There is no excuse for what happened yesterday and to hear Kubiak in the PC with his "Aww shucks, it coulda gone either way" approach to the loss was troubling. No way we should have lost that football game. The fact that Kubiak called a rollout in the situation is beyond me. Nonetheless, he is talking about how that could have been a great play but it just didn't go our way.

His record: 14-22. I doubt we get more than 5 or 6 wins this year.

Second Honeymoon
10-06-2008, 11:09 AM
But Polo, nothing spells 'stabilitly' like having three HC's in less than 10 years..:cowboy1:

so in the name of 'stabilitly' we are supposed to keep Gary around irregardless of performance and record? is that what you are saying?

TexanBill, let me just throw this out there to ya. we may not agree on a lot but your a knowledgeable and passionate fan. if the Texans were to go 0-16 would you welcome Gary back? if the Texans go 1-15 do you feel Kubiak should be brought back? if the Texans go 2-14 do you feel Kubiak should be brought back? Is there even a finite number that you could point to as the barometer of Kubiak being the Texans HC in 2009?

I just want to know if there is any way that you would feel Kubiak should be fired this season. I am not joking or making light of your opinion. I just want to know if there is any scenario where you would feel Gary could be justifiably fired in your own mind.

Texan_Bill
10-06-2008, 11:18 AM
His record: 14-22. I doubt we get more than 5 or 6 wins this year.


1965 7 7 0
1964 5 8 1
1963 4 10 0
1962 5 8 1
1961 4 9 1
1960 0 11 1


"Someone else's" record after 6 seasons..... 25-53-4





***************************************

"Someone else" being.................. Tom Landry

TexansSeminole
10-06-2008, 11:22 AM
1965 7 7 0
1964 5 8 1
1963 4 10 0
1962 5 8 1
1961 4 9 1
1960 0 11 1


"Someone else's" record after 6 seasons..... 25-53-4





***************************************

"Someone else" being.................. Tom Landry

Just because it has happened in the past doesn't mean we should hang on to Kubiak. It's not just the record. The guy makes game changing mistakes constantly, and the whole reason he was brought here (QBs) has proven to be an overrated attribute of Kubiak's, to say the least.

Vinny
10-06-2008, 11:23 AM
Tom Landry coached in an era before the current free agency....today teams can turn around in a couple of seasons....and most of them do outside of us, the Lions, Cardinals and Bengals it seems.

Polo
10-06-2008, 11:26 AM
steadily increasing the record? since when is having zero wins increasing the record?


Since when did a season = 4 games ?

Anyways...My post had very little to do with Kubiak and more with the irrational notion that we'd be much better off with Cowher...

Tedc
10-06-2008, 11:27 AM
Tom Landry coached in an era before the current free agency....today teams can turn around in a couple of seasons....and most of them do outside of us, the Lions, Cardinals, Bengals, and Texans it seems.

Fixed it for ya.

HoustonFrog
10-06-2008, 11:31 AM
Since when did a season = 4 games ?

Anyways...My post had very little to do with Kubiak and more with the irrational notion that we'd be much better off with Cowher...

Not sure that is irrational. It's a mentality.

GP
10-06-2008, 11:32 AM
I agree with your take, but I have been here before with this team and see the same thing about to happen. Next week is a must win, I hope someone echoes that in the locker room or on the staff. Anyone that does not feel that way is way to comfortable.

Yeah, but players (in the end) don't care to "win one for the coach," not anymore. Not in this day and age, the marketing era of sports.

Kubiak can't rally the troops on this, I'm afraid. I think the players take on the persona of their coach. And it can't be shaken when it's become the norm for 3 years. It's an issue of repeated behavioral patterns...which ultimately produce a climate that guides the gameday experience for those guys.

Marty comes across as a pre-Patriots Belichick kind of HC. He fell short in KC, and fell short in San Diego. But...who knows what happens on the next time around.

I'm with Cowher for first choice in my pipe-dream HC candidacy, then it's Marty after him. We need a proven HC to take our guys to the next level. I'd hate to see us waste any more of certain players' careers for the sake of mediocrity.

GP
10-06-2008, 11:43 AM
Tom Landry coached in an era before the current free agency....today teams can turn around in a couple of seasons....and most of them do outside of us, the Lions, Cardinals and Bengals it seems.

Bengals had 2-3 seasons of productive football under Lewis. But, his turn-around is tarnished due to situations and circumstances that have now led the team to a state of total regression (cancerous locker room, for one).

I've seen columns by writers who theorize the Lions ownership is the real problem with the organization. Could be.

Cardinals? On the field, they seem to be a pretty close reflection of the Texans.

I think our problem is two-fold: Ownership AND On-the-field chemistry.

At this stage, with what I am seeing from McNair, we're only going to get better if it's by a stroke of pure luck: Right people at the right time.

And we know how that works at the craps table in Vegas...you can shake the dice in your hand, have your girlfriend bless the dice, and do all the body language you want as the dice roll down the table...in the end, it don't matter.

That's how it is thus far. As much as people say Kubiak is learning on the job, I'd say the same of our owner. The Carr exten$ion was a lesson learned. I'm hoping the Kubiak experiment is a lesson learned, too.

Give this much to Bob: When he gives the rope to his players and coaches, he gives enough of it to...well, I won't say it. But it's true: Bob sticks with a decision and lets it play all the way out. I don't know if that's good or bad, in the end, but it's how he seems to prefer doing football business.

Carr Bombed
10-06-2008, 11:49 AM
LOL @ you guys loving Cowher but wanting Kubiak gone after three years where he's steadily increased the record....

How many years of being "good but not great" did the Steelers endure with Cowher ?

Oh how quickly we forget the wonderful years of Kordell Stewart...

What are you talking about...

In 15 years as a head coach of the Steelers, Cowher only had three losing seasons....the only thing the Steelers endured were good or great seasons (hardly ever any bad ones).

In Cowher’s 15 seasons, the Steelers won eight division titles, earned ten postseason playoff berths, appeared in six AFC Championship games and made two Super Bowl appearances.

Cowher and Kubiak aren't even comparable.

Polo
10-06-2008, 11:58 AM
What are you talking about...

In 15 years as a head coach of the Steelers, Cowher only had three losing seasons....the only thing the Steelers endured were good or great seasons (hardly ever any bad ones).

In Cowher’s 15 seasons, the Steelers won eight division titles, earned ten postseason playoff berths, appeared in six AFC Championship games and made two Super Bowl appearances.

Cowher and Kubiak aren't even comparable.

If you're not going to comprehend what you read it's no fun.

Nowhere did I imply that the Steelers had a lot of "losing" seasons....

Hasn't Kubes only had one losing season ?

Texecutioner
10-06-2008, 12:00 PM
If you're not going to comprehend what you read it's no fun.

Nowhere did I imply that the Steelers had a lot of "losing" seasons....

Out of two? That is the basis of what you're trying to use to stick up for Kubiak. "Oh well he's only had one losing season". Well count this one as well. Anyone that isn't upset about being 0-4 doesn't have a winning bone in their body.

Carr Bombed
10-06-2008, 12:06 PM
If you're not going to comprehend what you read it's no fun.

Nowhere did I imply that the Steelers had a lot of "losing" seasons....

Hasn't Kubes only had one losing season ?

No you just tried to compare Cowher to Kubiak....when again it isn't even comparable....go look what Cowher did in his first couple of seasons as coach.

On to your question though, yes Kubiak has only had 1 losing season so far, but your kidding yourself if you really think this isn't going to be another one or a step back for Kubiak.......that will then be 2 losing seasons out of 3 years. Cowher didn't have his second losing season until year 8 after that he went on to coach another 7 seasons where he only had 1 losing year.

FirstTexansFan
10-06-2008, 12:07 PM
Tom Landry coached in an era before the current free agency....today teams can turn around in a couple of seasons....and most of them do outside of us, the Lions, Cardinals and Bengals it seems.

Not defending anyone here, as I really don't have an answer to what we witnessed yesterday other than shock, but, if we use your gauge of free agency as a measuring stick to where this team could be. Shouldn't we look at what cap money was available? From what I've read here, we haven't had that money to go after players that could actually help us, so we've taken players we can fit into the cap scheme. Again, from reading on these forums, we are supposed to have that cap money this coming year.

My emotions at this time are "Kill'em all let God sort'em out", but my common sense tells me, we can't replace the coach and front office every three years and expect good results either.

I'm sure I've over simplified the issue, but I saw ONE man fumble twice, and throw an interception yesterday. Coaching my very well be the issue, but no coach can actually PLAY the game, he can only watch from the sidelines, and hope that his players don't screw the pooch.

Maybe Gary is unable to inspire them to greater heights. Maybe our GM can't find a decent free agent acquisition. Maybe our owner is dumber than a bag of rocks. Maybe we all need to find a new hobby. I think I am, because my old heart can't take too much more of that crap we saw yesterday.

Vinny
10-06-2008, 12:08 PM
Hasn't Kubes only had one losing season ?he's never had a winning season and he is looking 0-5 right in the face with the New improved Dolphins coming in to town...the same team that was worse than this team last year but they have Bill Parcells at the top of the helm and nobody has told him it takes a decade to make a team a viable playoff contender.

utahmark
10-06-2008, 12:09 PM
who was the coach that won the superbowl with the rams. that guy wasnt a in your face guy. he was laid back like kubes. maybe our guys can all find there happy place and we will turn into on big love train football machine.

Vinny
10-06-2008, 12:10 PM
Not defending anyone here, as I really don't have an answer to what we witnessed yesterday other than shock, but, if we use your gauge of free agency as a measuring stick to where this team could be. Shouldn't we look at what cap money was available? From what I've read here, we haven't had that money to go after players that could actually help us, so we've taken players we can fit into the cap scheme.
as just one example the Titans were arguably worse than we were several years ago and their cap problems were ten times the problem ours were. In the span of a few seasons they are competing for the playoffs and we are o-fer chumps at the back of the division once again as per usual.

Vinny
10-06-2008, 12:11 PM
who was the coach that won the superbowl with the rams. that guy wasnt a in your face guy. he was laid back like kubes. maybe our guys can all find there happy place and we will turn into on big love train football machine.I take it you have never seen any footage on Dick Vermeil? That guy was a great coach so I wouldn't put Kubiak in his class of coaches.

utahmark
10-06-2008, 12:11 PM
he's never had a winning season and he is looking 0-5 right in the face with the New improved Dolphins coming in to town...the same team that was worse than this team last year but they have Bill Parcells at the top of the helm and nobody has told him it takes a decade to make a team a viable playoff contender.

stop bringing logic into the discussion.

utahmark
10-06-2008, 12:13 PM
I take it you have never seen any footage on Dick Vermeil?

really, he seemed so emotional. that was him in that movie with marky mark. i guess he was getting on marky pretty bad.

Polo
10-06-2008, 12:16 PM
No you just tried to compare Cowher to Kubiak....when again it isn't even comparable....go look what Cowher did in his first couple of seasons as coach.


Actually I wasn't comparing Cowher to Kubiak at all...Not sure where you're getting that from...

I don't even know his history well enough to make that comparison...

Just pointing out that Cowher's teams haven't always been great. Very many average seasons during his tenure.

Polo
10-06-2008, 12:17 PM
he's never had a winning season and he is looking 0-5 right in the face with the New improved Dolphins coming in to town...the same team that was worse than this team last year but they have Bill Parcells at the top of the helm and nobody has told him it takes a decade to make a team a viable playoff contender.

I guess if Kubiak isn't Parcells or some other great he sucks...

Guess we gotta start or search for the next legend....

FirstTexansFan
10-06-2008, 12:17 PM
as just one example the Titans were arguably worse than we were several years ago and their cap problems were ten times the problem ours were. In the span of a few seasons they are competing for the playoffs and we are o-fer chumps at the back of the division once again as per usual.

Ok, then we've reached "Kill'em All" status. Point the way sir, we'll storm the Bastille.

Carr Bombed
10-06-2008, 12:19 PM
Actually I wasn't comparing Cowher to Kubiak at all...Not sure where you're getting that from...

LOL @ you guys loving Cowher but wanting Kubiak gone after three years where he's steadily increased the record....

How many years of being "good but not great" did the Steelers endure with Cowher ?...

I don't even know his history well enough to make that comparison...

Just pointing out that Cowher's teams haven't always been great. Very many average seasons during his tenure.

What's your definition of average.......8-8 is the benchmark, if we go by that Cowher has had....

3 losing seasons

1 average season (not very many)

and 11 above average to great seasons. (he was just so consistently good that he made going to the playoffs year in and year out look average for him).

The guy is one of the best coaches to ever coach the game.

powerfuldragon
10-06-2008, 12:19 PM
we're a reactionary lot. no self-control.

HJam72
10-06-2008, 12:21 PM
It just occurred to me that Kubiak could have played QB himself and protected the freaking ball, lol.

FirstTexansFan
10-06-2008, 12:23 PM
It just occurred to me that Kubiak could have played QB himself and protected the freaking ball, lol.

Another reason to fire this guy! ;)

Texecutioner
10-06-2008, 12:26 PM
Guess we gotta start or search for the next legend....

Duh! That is the whole idea.

Carr Bombed
10-06-2008, 12:27 PM
we're a reactionary lot. no self-control.

Going on 7 years of losing tends to give you a hair trigger. :)

Vinny
10-06-2008, 12:31 PM
we're a reactionary lot. no self-control.
This is a football forum....you expect fans to come in after that and swap pecan pie recipes?

GP
10-06-2008, 12:34 PM
What are you talking about...

In 15 years as a head coach of the Steelers, Cowher only had three losing seasons....the only thing the Steelers endured were good or great seasons (hardly ever any bad ones).

In Cowher’s 15 seasons, the Steelers won eight division titles, earned ten postseason playoff berths, appeared in six AFC Championship games and made two Super Bowl appearances.

Cowher and Kubiak aren't even comparable.

Word.

powerfuldragon
10-06-2008, 12:40 PM
This is a football forum....you expect fans to come in after that and swap pecan pie recipes?


i just expect a little temperance is all.

Vinny
10-06-2008, 12:45 PM
i just expect a little temperance is all.There is not a football forum on the internet that wouldn't be critical of their team after yesterday. At least we talk about this instead of non stop cursing and ranting like I see in a lot of football forums. I'd call us a class act as a group compared to what I've seen at other teams forums after such grave disappointment.

Polo
10-06-2008, 12:48 PM
The guy is one of the best coaches to ever coach the game.

Again...I was not comparing Kubiak to Cowher as a coach....


Not sure how you're not understanding that...

powerfuldragon
10-06-2008, 12:49 PM
mm. but calling for the firing of the head coach-- who just last year was viewed as someone deserving of placement in the pantheon-- makes me laugh just a little.

Vinny
10-06-2008, 12:57 PM
mm. but calling for the firing of the head coach-- who just last year was viewed as someone deserving of placement in the pantheon-- makes me laugh just a little.
lots of individuals here so a "message board" doesn't call for anyone's head. Thinking one does makes me smile as well.

barrett
10-06-2008, 12:59 PM
i'm quite proud of our head coach. this was hands down the most aggressive game he's called in his three years here. when you are aggressive you're going to win some, and loose some. he did a great job. the texans played the best they've ever played. they did a great job.

go texans!

Texecutioner
10-06-2008, 01:02 PM
i'm quite proud of our head coach. this was hands down the most aggressive game he's called in his three years here. when you are aggressive you're going to win some, and loose some. he did a great job. the texans played the best they've ever played. they did a great job.

go texans!

Wow! Thanks Matt Millen.

HJam72
10-06-2008, 01:05 PM
After careful consideration, I am quite certain that we lost this game because the roof was open. All we have to do is close it for all our remaining home games. That should be easy enough. :photos:

Blake
10-06-2008, 02:44 PM
Again...I was not comparing Kubiak to Cowher as a coach....

Not sure how you're not understanding that...

LOL @ you guys loving Cowher but wanting Kubiak gone after three years where he's steadily increased the record....

How many years of being "good but not great" did the Steelers endure with Cowher?

You ask everyone to look at Bill Cowher's body of work throughout the years because people are passing judgment on Kubiak so quickly, yet you don't want us to think you are comparing the two? I think you are the one who is not understanding.

But im sure you will continue to say you werent.

LonerATO
10-06-2008, 02:48 PM
For some reason Kubes was left go I dont see use getting BC at all, I just dont think I see him coming to this team. I do see Schottenheimer if we tried to get him since his only demands would be to have his family members be on the staff.

Carr Bombed
10-06-2008, 02:52 PM
I do see Schottenheimer if we tried to get him since his only demands would be to have his family members be on the staff.

Atleast we would get to watch the staff mismanage playoff games instead of regular season games.....that's a improvement right?

LonerATO
10-06-2008, 02:59 PM
Atleast we would get to watch the staff mismanage playoff games instead of regular season games.....that's a improvement right?

I would trade playoff loses any day of the week instead of not having a winning season

GP
10-06-2008, 03:03 PM
There is not a football forum on the internet that wouldn't be critical of their team after yesterday. At least we talk about this instead of non stop cursing and ranting like I see in a lot of football forums. I'd call us a class act as a group compared to what I've seen at other teams forums after such grave disappointment.

Well, we get it from our owner.

Fred White: Law and order every time, that's us. (Quote from Tombstone)

Sorry, had to do that. Class act is neat, it's fuuuuun.

CrosbyTexansFan
10-06-2008, 03:11 PM
My whole point when I started this thread was simply this.........

Kubiak should have benched Sage after he failed to protect the ball the 2nd time......allowing it to happen once is one thing, you tell the guy, "Protect that ball!!" "Period". Once it happened twice, he should have put even a sick Shaub in the game. Allowing Sage to make the mistake the 3rd time was unacceptable. The last interception at the end was just Sage trying VERY hard to atone for his mistakes which I'm sure he saw his chances as a starter in the NFL fly out the window only moments before.....I probably would have been grasping at straws at that point myself.

Kubiak has to take some of the heat for this screw up.....Sage was not supposed to be there for the last fumble.

utahmark
10-06-2008, 03:19 PM
Atleast we would get to watch the staff mismanage playoff games instead of regular season games.....that's a improvement right?

thats exactly what i was thinking.

utahmark
10-06-2008, 03:25 PM
My whole point when I started this thread was simply this.........

Kubiak should have benched Sage after he failed to protect the ball the 2nd time......allowing it to happen once is one thing, you tell the guy, "Protect that ball!!" "Period". Once it happened twice, he should have put even a sick Shaub in the game. Allowing Sage to make the mistake the 3rd time was unacceptable. The last interception at the end was just Sage trying VERY hard to atone for his mistakes which I'm sure he saw his chances as a starter in the NFL fly out the window only moments before.....I probably would have been grasping at straws at that point myself.

Kubiak has to take some of the heat for this screw up.....Sage was not supposed to be there for the last fumble.

i dont think you ever had the flu. isnt that what he had. you cant hardly stand or walk, older people and kids die from it. you cant play football. if he went in the game it would be to hand the ball off. and at that point we were down by 4. now we could of put him in and let him hand the ball off before the helecopter move. that would of worked.

Mailman
10-06-2008, 03:26 PM
My whole point when I started this thread was simply this.........

Kubiak should have benched Sage after he failed to protect the ball the 2nd time......allowing it to happen once is one thing, you tell the guy, "Protect that ball!!" "Period". Once it happened twice, he should have put even a sick Shaub in the game. Allowing Sage to make the mistake the 3rd time was unacceptable. The last interception at the end was just Sage trying VERY hard to atone for his mistakes which I'm sure he saw his chances as a starter in the NFL fly out the window only moments before.....I probably would have been grasping at straws at that point myself.

Kubiak has to take some of the heat for this screw up.....Sage was not supposed to be there for the last fumble.

Probably the most illogical, nonsensical take in this entire clusterfvck of a thread.

You realize that Schaub had a viral infection, right? His attention was most likely focused on not throwing up or crapping his pants on the sideline, and you want him coming into the game in that condition?

Mailman
10-06-2008, 03:33 PM
My whole point when I Allowing Sage to make the mistake the 3rd time was unacceptable. The last interception at the end was just Sage trying VERY hard to atone for his mistakes which I'm sure he saw his chances as a starter in the NFL fly out the window only moments before.....I probably would have been grasping at straws at that point myself.



There's a reason you didn't see a Texans receiver anywhere near that ball, and if you read the postgame quotes you'd know what that reason is.

It had nothing to do with Sage trying too hard.

LonerATO
10-06-2008, 03:37 PM
i dont think you ever had the flu. isnt that what he had. you cant hardly stand or walk, older people and kids die from it. you cant play football. if he went in the game it would be to hand the ball off. and at that point we were down by 4. now we could of put him in and let him hand the ball off before the helecopter move. that would of worked.

if he was that sick then he shouldnt have been suited up with earpiece in ear and looking like he was ready to go. I love how we only carry two QB's on this team when we have a lame **** RB on the PS

cuppacoffee
10-06-2008, 05:56 PM
For some reason Kubes was left go I dont see use getting BC at all, I just dont think I see him coming to this team. I do see Schottenheimer if we tried to get him since his only demands would be to have his family members be on the staff.

Listening to Cowhers comments on the post game show, and seeing his "demeanor" while commenting that having Rosenfels handle the ball instead of using the running backs was the wrong thing to do, I just got the impression that he would love the chance to come here and coach. ( Wow, what a long sentence.)

Now after saying that, I still think it is too early to give up on Kubiak.

Except for Rosenfels two boneheaded plays, our Texans played one hell of a game.

The Buffalo debacle was a series of one blunder after another for about one and a half quarters, to a backup qb no less.

I have mentioned in another thread, and I think so has Vinny,...that right now this team is a training ground for coaches. It's a painful process to watch.

I've also mentioned in another thread that I expect the tuna and company to produce a winning/playoff team before the Texans do. So I am not looking forward to next week.

As much as this loss pizzed me off, I haven't gone to plan B.... yet.

:gotexans1



:coffee:

HJam72
10-06-2008, 05:58 PM
Probably the most illogical, nonsensical take in this entire clusterfvck of a thread.

You realize that Schaub had a viral infection, right? His attention was most likely focused on not throwing up or crapping his pants on the sideline, and you want him coming into the game in that condition?

If it worked, we wouldn't care if he crapped and vomited all over the place.

utahmark
10-06-2008, 06:12 PM
if he was that sick then he shouldnt have been suited up with earpiece in ear and looking like he was ready to go. I love how we only carry two QB's on this team when we have a lame **** RB on the PS

your right that was a huge blunder.

The1ApplePie
10-06-2008, 08:37 PM
I was eating lunch with a lady today and she brought up the Texans (because she is awsome) and she said that before Sage blew it Schaub looked worried on the sidelines the whole time and actually look relivied when the Texans lost sinceh is job was secure.

Matt Sanchez in 2009 anyone?

RTP2110
10-06-2008, 09:33 PM
Ok, I thought about it for one day. I now say Kubiak has to go. His playcalling is terrible. I mean, why in the hell did he call those two fumbles in the 4th quarter? That was the last thing we needed. Then, we still had a chance to win at the end, and what does he do? He calls a freaking interception play! What's with this guy?

"It's not the X's and O's, it's the Steves and the Joes" - NFL Network Guy

Runner
10-06-2008, 10:53 PM
Can we move the college football talk somewhere else? Maybe the NCAA football forum?

Carr Bombed
10-06-2008, 10:54 PM
Can we move the college football talk somewhere else? Maybe the NCAA football forum?

Why, do your really want to talk about the 0-4 Texans :cool:

Runner
10-06-2008, 10:57 PM
Huh - they are over there now. Go figure.

DexmanC
10-06-2008, 11:22 PM
During the 2-14 season, I found myself changing the channels during
Texans games. It was obvious the team had quit. Kubiak came in, and
basically kicked all of the old guys out, and brought in some newer "old"
players. He's also drafted 10x better than the Casserly/Capers regime.
I don't hold the previous 4 years on Kubiak.

Kubiak is in his third year as Coach/Co-GM, and the improvement in talent
and play on the field is already apparent. As young as this team is, you watch
for improvement in play, not just the win/loss column.

I understand that many people watch games, and only see the "bottom line."
The front office, the coaching staff, the players, must and will maintain a
focus on their improvement as players, as coaches, as a team.

I see the improvement, because I recognize Bob Mcnair is a long-term
investor. You only fire the GM and Coach when it becomes obvious
that improvement is no longer occuring. Just two years ago, Jeff Fisher
and Jack DelRio were on the "hotseat." Now, they are "great coaches."

Did the Carolina Panthers give up on John Fox after the crappy season
they had last year? Now look at them. By the way, one reason Kubiak
believes Schaub is a better option than Sage, is because Gary does
not like to remove the "deep ball" from his playbook, as he often does
when Sage is at the helm.

Another reason for this, I can just sum up in one word....

HELICOPTER

bigfan77801
10-06-2008, 11:27 PM
During the 2-14 season, I found myself changing the channels during
Texans games. It was obvious the team had quit. Kubiak came in, and
basically kicked all of the old guys out, and brought in some newer "old"
players. He's also drafted 10x better than the Casserly/Capers regime.
I don't hold the previous 4 years on Kubiak.

Kubiak is in his third year as Coach/Co-GM, and the improvement in talent
and play on the field is already apparent. As young as this team is, you watch
for improvement in play, not just the win/loss column.

I understand that many people watch games, and only see the "bottom line."
The front office, the coaching staff, the players, must and will maintain a
focus on their improvement as players, as coaches, as a team.

I see the improvement, because I recognize Bob Mcnair is a long-term
investor. You only fire the GM and Coach when it becomes obvious
that improvement is no longer occuring. Just two years ago, Jeff Fisher
and Jack DelRio were on the "hotseat." Now, they are "great coaches."

Did the Carolina Panthers give up on John Fox after the crappy season
they had last year? Now look at them. By the way, one reason Kubiak
believes Schaub is a better option than Sage, is because Gary does
not like to remove the "deep ball" from his playbook, as he often does
when Sage is at the helm.

Another reason for this, I can just sum up in one word....

HELICOPTER

Forget it man, the hire Cower, Marty, or any random name crowd doesn't want to listen to logic. I understand where they are coming from and I want to this team to win too. Something to keep in mind though it took the Fisher about five years to break into a winning season, if memory serves.

threetoedpete
10-07-2008, 02:55 AM
Very nice post Dex man.

buddyboy
10-07-2008, 02:59 AM
During the 2-14 season, I found myself changing the channels during
Texans games. It was obvious the team had quit. Kubiak came in, and
basically kicked all of the old guys out, and brought in some newer "old"
players. He's also drafted 10x better than the Casserly/Capers regime.
I don't hold the previous 4 years on Kubiak.

Kubiak is in his third year as Coach/Co-GM, and the improvement in talent
and play on the field is already apparent. As young as this team is, you watch
for improvement in play, not just the win/loss column.

I understand that many people watch games, and only see the "bottom line."
The front office, the coaching staff, the players, must and will maintain a
focus on their improvement as players, as coaches, as a team.

I see the improvement, because I recognize Bob Mcnair is a long-term
investor. You only fire the GM and Coach when it becomes obvious
that improvement is no longer occuring. Just two years ago, Jeff Fisher
and Jack DelRio were on the "hotseat." Now, they are "great coaches."

Did the Carolina Panthers give up on John Fox after the crappy season
they had last year? Now look at them. By the way, one reason Kubiak
believes Schaub is a better option than Sage, is because Gary does
not like to remove the "deep ball" from his playbook, as he often does
when Sage is at the helm.

Another reason for this, I can just sum up in one word....

HELICOPTER

:goodpost:

Scooter
10-07-2008, 04:02 AM
During the 2-14 season, I found myself changing the channels during
Texans games. It was obvious the team had quit. Kubiak came in, and
basically kicked all of the old guys out, and brought in some newer "old"
players. He's also drafted 10x better than the Casserly/Capers regime.
I don't hold the previous 4 years on Kubiak.

Kubiak is in his third year as Coach/Co-GM, and the improvement in talent
and play on the field is already apparent. As young as this team is, you watch
for improvement in play, not just the win/loss column.

I understand that many people watch games, and only see the "bottom line."
The front office, the coaching staff, the players, must and will maintain a
focus on their improvement as players, as coaches, as a team.

I see the improvement, because I recognize Bob Mcnair is a long-term
investor. You only fire the GM and Coach when it becomes obvious
that improvement is no longer occuring. Just two years ago, Jeff Fisher
and Jack DelRio were on the "hotseat." Now, they are "great coaches."

Did the Carolina Panthers give up on John Fox after the crappy season
they had last year? Now look at them. By the way, one reason Kubiak
believes Schaub is a better option than Sage, is because Gary does
not like to remove the "deep ball" from his playbook, as he often does
when Sage is at the helm.

Another reason for this, I can just sum up in one word....

HELICOPTER

i just felt this needed to be repeated.

with the direction of the forum this season it seems like most would sacrifice a limb to sell the team to al davis. attitude, identity, a new coach every other year, criminal records. the fastest man with time spent in huntsville on the field and a coach that's brett favre in week 4 and dom capers in week 5.

the irony is the name that keeps coming up - cowher. 3 coaches in 40 years ... oops. "fire cowher" hit it's peak in 03 ... what happened when the rooneys played football? "one for the thumb". i'm fully aware of my appearance as both a mcnair and kubiak appologist, but i'll take any and all abuse if it takes focus away from a team barely 2 years old. browns, jags, and panthers are 7-8 years older than our original start date. our previous regime couldnt have been worse and noone's going to argue on richard smith's behalf ... we got nailed to the wall with the initial draft, the first staff drove a stake through our hearts, and now we have to start 6 players from square one. shit happens and the fans are cleaning it up.

we're putting up points. our core is growing. we have 3 legit pro-bowlers (AJ, mario, demeco). dunta robinson healthy WOULD win atleast 2 of our games. we've lost our home opener and bye week due to mother nature and had to make due with the cards delt ... this season to date is the football equivelant of "you're screwed".

what i'm tired of hearing is "losing mentality". those two words combine for the singularly dumbest statement a fan can make. seriously, if you've uttered that statement, retract it - anyone with a lick of sense has just lost all respect ... unless of course you've personally bought ice-cream for everyone after the junior homecoming game.

we lack talent, we lack experience, we lack 15 years of drafting, we lack a coach inheriting a complete team (replacing 40 players sucks). get over it. we've grown by leaps and bounds, while that's been from laughing stock to mediocrity and screwups, we are becoming a team. be a texan.

Malloy
10-07-2008, 04:15 AM
Then, we still had a chance to win at the end, and what does he do? He calls a freaking interception play! What's with this guy?


This has got to be the most silly post I've read in a long time. He calls an interception play... uhmm....?

Scooter
10-07-2008, 04:17 AM
This has got to be the most silly post I've read in a long time. He calls an interception play... uhmm....?

sarcasm :tiphat:

Malloy
10-07-2008, 04:22 AM
sarcasm :tiphat:

I hope so, but I doubt it :I

Good post btw Scooter (a couple of posts up) you're right on the money imo!

HJam72
10-07-2008, 04:41 AM
Now, wait a minute. I have to defend those interception calls, because you have to admit that we never give up sacks on those. Not one fumble either.

Malloy
10-07-2008, 04:50 AM
Now, wait a minute. I have to defend those interception calls, because you have to admit that we never give up sacks on those. Not one fumble either.

You're right, also the player returning the INT burns off valuable time on the clock.

My bad :)

spurstexanstros
10-07-2008, 08:50 AM
i just felt this needed to be repeated.

with the direction of the forum this season it seems like most would sacrifice a limb to sell the team to al davis. attitude, identity, a new coach every other year, criminal records. the fastest man with time spent in huntsville on the field and a coach that's brett favre in week 4 and dom capers in week 5.

the irony is the name that keeps coming up - cowher. 3 coaches in 40 years ... oops. "fire cowher" hit it's peak in 03 ... what happened when the rooneys played football? "one for the thumb". i'm fully aware of my appearance as both a mcnair and kubiak appologist, but i'll take any and all abuse if it takes focus away from a team barely 2 years old. browns, jags, and panthers are 7-8 years older than our original start date. our previous regime couldnt have been worse and noone's going to argue on richard smith's behalf ... we got nailed to the wall with the initial draft, the first staff drove a stake through our hearts, and now we have to start 6 players from square one. shit happens and the fans are cleaning it up.

we're putting up points. our core is growing. we have 3 legit pro-bowlers (AJ, mario, demeco).What about Owen Daniels?scooter dunta robinson healthy WOULD win atleast 2 of our games. we've lost our home opener and bye week due to mother nature and had to make due with the cards delt ... this season to date is the football equivelant of "you're screwed".

what i'm tired of hearing is "losing mentality". those two words combine for the singularly dumbest statement a fan can make. seriously, if you've uttered that statement, retract it - anyone with a lick of sense has just lost all respect ... unless of course you've personally bought ice-cream for everyone after the junior homecoming game.

we lack talent, we lack experience, we lack 15 years of drafting, we lack a coach inheriting a complete team (replacing 40 players sucks). get over it. we've grown by leaps and bounds, while that's been from laughing stock to mediocrity and screwups, we are becoming a team. be a texan.

This post just went yard.
I think that Kubiak has earned another season because of the team improving each year since he has been here. He had to deal with the Capers crew and despite that the team improved. Mainly due to Charlie Casserly''s last draft (Mario, Demeco, Owen, Eric) Kubiak has installed a highly effective offense that is only getting better.

The call for coaching changes on a yearly basis doesnt surprise me from Houston fan. If they drove Rudy T out of town I guess no one in Houston professional sports is safe.
Kubiak is our guy...go get em kubes

Polo
10-07-2008, 08:52 AM
Barring a complete collapse, Kubiak will be here next yr. even if the team has a losing record....

Second Honeymoon
10-07-2008, 09:10 AM
This post just went yard.
I think that Kubiak has earned another season because of the team improving each year since he has been here. He had to deal with the Capers crew and despite that the team improved. Mainly due to Charlie Casserly''s last draft (Mario, Demeco, Owen, Eric) Kubiak has installed a highly effective offense that is only getting better.

The call for coaching changes on a yearly basis doesnt surprise me from Houston fan. If they drove Rudy T out of town I guess no one in Houston professional sports is safe.
Kubiak is our guy...go get em kubes

HOW IS THE TEAM IMPROVING EACH YEAR!!! WE ARE 0-4!! HOW IS THAT IMPROVING??? we were 6-10 his first year and then we got 7 real wins last year and a gimme. wow 2 wins better...now this year we start out 0-4. you do realize that we would have to 9-3 the rest of the year to even match last year much less improve upon it. give me a freaking break guys. the coaching sucks....period. he is what he is....a 2nd rate cheap hire.

jesus kriminey...why do some fans have such a hard time with doing basic math. ZERO is the lowest number you can have. How could this be considered an improvement.

I understand that some of you think that Kubiak is the 2nd coming of Del Rio or Fisher or whatever, but WHAT HAS HE DONE TO MAKE YOU BELIEVE IN HIM!! he hasn't shown anything than the propensity to give up leads and/or the ability make sure his team is 10 to 21 points down before his teams even show up.

last year was not that great of a year. you guys act like it was some magical year. we beat no one of consequence and our 8th win was giftwrapped for us and everyone knows the Jags would have whooped our arse if they would have had anything to play for.

I appreciate the supporting the fans thing but I just don't see how anyone can say Kubiak is a good head coach with a straight face. is he good just because he coaches the Texans...we sure haven't seen anything else that would point him out as a good coach.

geez, sometimes the homering and blind faith around here is just nauseating.

KUBIAK MUST GO!!

Second Honeymoon
10-07-2008, 09:12 AM
Barring a complete collapse, Kubiak will be here next yr. even if the team has a losing record....

IF the team has a losing record? umm, its pretty much a foregone conclusion....its just how bad of a losing record.

3-13 is my call with every win being against total crap teams (detroit, oakland, etc.)

Polo
10-07-2008, 09:13 AM
He's fielded the best team, IMHO, in franchise history...

Results (w's :rolleyes:) aren't there 4 games into the season, but I am happy with the direction we are headed...

Second Honeymoon
10-07-2008, 09:16 AM
He's fielded the best team, IMHO, in franchise history...

Results (w's :rolleyes:) aren't there 4 games into the season, but I am happy with the direction we are headed...

congratulations on being happy with 0-4 and heading for a 3-13 season. congrats indeed.

and results? screw results, how about not utter embarassments and complete failures...which is all we have had since Week One.

dalemurphy
10-07-2008, 09:20 AM
HOW IS THE TEAM IMPROVING EACH YEAR!!! WE ARE 0-4!! HOW IS THAT IMPROVING??? we were 6-10 his first year and then we got 7 real wins last year and a gimme. wow 2 wins better...now this year we start out 0-4. you do realize that we would have to 9-3 the rest of the year to even match last year much less improve upon it. give me a freaking break guys. the coaching sucks....period. he is what he is....a 2nd rate cheap hire.

jesus kriminey...why do some fans have such a hard time with doing basic math. ZERO is the lowest number you can have. How could this be considered an improvement.

I understand that some of you think that Kubiak is the 2nd coming of Del Rio or Fisher or whatever, but WHAT HAS HE DONE TO MAKE YOU BELIEVE IN HIM!! he hasn't shown anything than the propensity to give up leads and/or the ability make sure his team is 10 to 21 points down before his teams even show up.

last year was not that great of a year. you guys act like it was some magical year. we beat no one of consequence and our 8th win was giftwrapped for us and everyone knows the Jags would have whooped our arse if they would have had anything to play for.

I appreciate the supporting the fans thing but I just don't see how anyone can say Kubiak is a good head coach with a straight face. is he good just because he coaches the Texans...we sure haven't seen anything else that would point him out as a good coach.

geez, sometimes the homering and blind faith around here is just nauseating.

KUBIAK MUST GO!!



Are we having the best season in franchise history?: of cours not!

Are we fielding the best football team in franchise history?: of course we are.

Two entirely separate issues. Kubiak is responsible in large part for the quality of the team and also for the fact that the results are lacking... However, grade him on the '08 season's results after they've happened.

If you can't see how much better this team is playing football then you either don't really understand the game or are so frustrated that you are unable to see it, which is somewhat understandable.

Polo
10-07-2008, 09:23 AM
congratulations on being happy with 0-4 and heading for a 3-13 season. congrats indeed.

and results? screw results, how about not utter embarassments and complete failures...which is all we have had since Week One.

Not sure why you are confusing patience with happiness...IMO, we are better and more talented than last yr...

Being patient with someone because you believe in them doesn't mean you are satisfied or happy with the results they are currently presenting...

I am happy with the direction of the team though...

I'm sorry you feel embarrased by something you have no control over...

My family and friends know I'm a huge Texan fan too...My brother is a huge Colts fan...They all call after the games and I take my fair share of ribbing...My Sunday was pretty much ruined after that loss...

I still don't feel embarrased though...

:texflag:

Kaiser Toro
10-07-2008, 09:23 AM
If our best team can only muster an 0-4 start after 7 years, it certainly does not speak well for anyone's arguement that is pro-Texans. Just saying......

db8coach
10-07-2008, 09:24 AM
A head coach gets a job. He goes to the office that the previous coach occupied to start setting up his office. He goes to the drawer and finds 4 letters. On the first it says, "open this one now". He does and the letter says, "welcome to your new job, open each envelope after each season" He chuckles and agrees to do it.

After his first season the team goes 6-4 he goes back to the desk where he opens the second letter. The letter says..."You had a bad year, Its ok, just blame the quarterback and fire him." He does so and everything is cool.

The Second season goes by and he is 8-8. He opens the third letter. "You showed improvement, but ya'll are still bad. Blame your assistant coaches, fire them and replace them now." He does and the press applauds his bold move.

The Third season the team just can't win a game. At the end of the season the coach goes to the desk. He opens the fourth letter and it reads.....

"Write 4 letters"

dalemurphy
10-07-2008, 09:29 AM
If our best team can only muster an 0-4 start after 7 years, it certainly does not speak well for anyone's arguement that is pro-Texans. Just saying......


16 game season. I'm still expecting 9-10 wins.

Kaiser Toro
10-07-2008, 09:36 AM
16 game season. I'm still expecting 9-10 wins.

I am all for optimism brutha and can see plenty of GoG development at the player and unit levels. Heck I carried the flag of optimism for many years around here.

We will find out a lot about this team this week. I do not want Kubiak fired, but I am worried should the game be close and him making decisions. This team will quit on him in my opinion.

Between his lack of in-game management skills, the OC being young and a hot head Assistant Head Coach it scares me for the sake of Kubiak's tenure here in Houston.

dalemurphy
10-07-2008, 09:39 AM
I am all for optimism brutha and can see plenty of GoG development at the player and unit levels. Heck I carried the flag of optimism for many years around here.

We will find out a lot about this team this week. I do not want Kubiak fired, but I am worried should the game be close and him making decisions. This team will quit on him in my opinion.

Between his lack of in-game management skills, the OC being young and a hot head Assistant Head Coach it scares me for the sake of Kubiak's tenure here in Houston.

My optimism and defense of Kubiak both assume this team won't quit on him. If they do, then I'll have some pink soap, and pretty quickly too.

Polo
10-07-2008, 09:40 AM
If our best team can only muster an 0-4 start after 7 years, it certainly does not speak well for anyone's arguement that is pro-Texans. Just saying......

Pretty sure the same was being said about the Astro's poor start to the season...

Pro Astro arguments didn't look good at that time either....Just saying.....

Polo
10-07-2008, 09:42 AM
IF the team has a losing record? umm, its pretty much a foregone conclusion....its just how bad of a losing record.

3-13 is my call with every win being against total crap teams (detroit, oakland, etc.)

I've read enough of your post to not be surprised with the doom and gloom forecast...

Have you ever predicted anything positive about the Texans ?

We may very well be 3-13...Guess we will have to cross that bridge when we come to it though cuz we aren't there yet...

Mr teX
10-07-2008, 09:43 AM
another 1 of 2nd honeymoon's oversimplified extreme rants ...what a surprise.

Thorn
10-07-2008, 09:44 AM
I think 3 wins is far to low seeing as how the Texans (for most of the last two games) have shown something good. I also think 10 wins is far to high at this point.

Second Honeymoon
10-07-2008, 09:48 AM
16 game season. I'm still expecting 9-10 wins.

lolololol....so you think this 0-4 team is going to go 10-2 the rest of the way....wow dale murphy, i want some of what you are smoking because its gotta be some damn good stuff.

Second Honeymoon
10-07-2008, 09:49 AM
Pretty sure the same was being said about the Astro's poor start to the season...

Pro Astro arguments didn't look good at that time either....Just saying.....

cmon now. one season is 16 games the other is over a 150...totally different animals. you can have a bad start in MLB and overcome, in the NFL you just become irrelevant and go away.

Polo
10-07-2008, 09:53 AM
cmon now. one season is 16 games the other is over a 150...totally different animals. you can have a bad start in MLB and overcome, in the NFL you just become irrelevant and go away.

Astro's didn't just have a bad start...they almost mathmatically eliminated themselves...

I don't watch a WHOLE LOT of baseball, but I do know that the sports analyst had pretty much written the Astos off because they'd have to win some kind of crazy ratio of games...

I'm not saying the Texans are going to pull a miracle, but I do think that they can show marked improvement with 12 games left in the season...

cowbellm00
10-07-2008, 10:27 AM
Not sure why you are confusing patience with happiness...IMO, we are better and more talented than last yr...

Being patient with someone because you believe in them doesn't mean you are satisfied or happy with the results they are currently presenting...

I am happy with the direction of the team though...

I'm sorry you feel embarrased by something you have no control over...

My family and friends know I'm a huge Texan fan too...My brother is a huge Colts fan...They all call after the games and I take my fair share of ribbing...My Sunday was pretty much ruined after that loss...

I still don't feel embarrased though...

:texflag:

wow, hey everyone, this guy gets it. be a fan now no matter what the record is. i was a fan when we were 2-14 too. true it sucked, but we (the fans ) don't control it, so why are you embarrased? just do your job and be a suportive fan.

Polo
10-07-2008, 10:37 AM
wow, hey everyone, this guy gets it. be a fan now no matter what the record is. i was a fan when we were 2-14 too. true it sucked, but we (the fans ) don't control it, so why are you embarrased? just do your job and be a suportive fan.

I'm not telling folks to be content with the loss...

Honestly I could really care less how the fans want to express themselves after we lose....Scream, cry, curse, slap your mother, perform an exorcism...Whatever floats your boat...

Just on here expressing my viewpoint that we aren't a terrible team and I think we have a pretty good coach...

Just my personal preference to not let a game make me feel embarrased...LOL@ that....

bigbrewster2000
10-07-2008, 11:04 AM
i just felt this needed to be repeated.

with the direction of the forum this season it seems like most would sacrifice a limb to sell the team to al davis. attitude, identity, a new coach every other year, criminal records. the fastest man with time spent in huntsville on the field and a coach that's brett favre in week 4 and dom capers in week 5.

the irony is the name that keeps coming up - cowher. 3 coaches in 40 years ... oops. "fire cowher" hit it's peak in 03 ... what happened when the rooneys played football? "one for the thumb". i'm fully aware of my appearance as both a mcnair and kubiak appologist, but i'll take any and all abuse if it takes focus away from a team barely 2 years old. browns, jags, and panthers are 7-8 years older than our original start date. our previous regime couldnt have been worse and noone's going to argue on richard smith's behalf ... we got nailed to the wall with the initial draft, the first staff drove a stake through our hearts, and now we have to start 6 players from square one. shit happens and the fans are cleaning it up.

we're putting up points. our core is growing. we have 3 legit pro-bowlers (AJ, mario, demeco). dunta robinson healthy WOULD win atleast 2 of our games. we've lost our home opener and bye week due to mother nature and had to make due with the cards delt ... this season to date is the football equivelant of "you're screwed".

what i'm tired of hearing is "losing mentality". those two words combine for the singularly dumbest statement a fan can make. seriously, if you've uttered that statement, retract it - anyone with a lick of sense has just lost all respect ... unless of course you've personally bought ice-cream for everyone after the junior homecoming game.

we lack talent, we lack experience, we lack 15 years of drafting, we lack a coach inheriting a complete team (replacing 40 players sucks). get over it. we've grown by leaps and bounds, while that's been from laughing stock to mediocrity and screwups, we are becoming a team. be a texan.

must spread rep!

Tailgate
10-07-2008, 11:16 AM
If our best team can only muster an 0-4 start after 7 years, it certainly does not speak well for anyone's arguement that is pro-Texans. Just saying......

I am as disheartened as anyone and I have asked myself why, why, why a million times. But it was the first time in NFL history a team has opened up on the road against 3 playoff teams. Not to mention 3 teams known for defense. Then Manning and the colts at home... who we have beaten all of once. I am not saying I am happy by any menas...but 0-4 was very realistic no matter how well we played or by how well we shot ourselves in the foot for that matter.

SICLICK
10-07-2008, 11:32 AM
I told yall plain and simple ...We suck again.

DexmanC
10-07-2008, 12:15 PM
Do you emotional "fans" understand how young this team is?
Most of our players are in their third year or less of NFL football.
This team has more coaches than any team in the division.
Our coaches are more instructional than "ra-rah."

Every position coach on this team is a professor of technique.
These "kids" need coaches like that. Most of Kubiaks draftees were
young "raw" athletic players. His coaching staff is teaching them TO BE
the player their respective position calls for.

Go have a coke and a smile, because once these Texans get experience,
they are gonna be good for a long while.

This team went from pathetic, to quitters, to young, to inconsistent, to
competitive, to dominant (during 3 1/2 quarters.) Now, we need them to
take the next step to "finishers."

Peyton Manning and the Colts did this very same thing to the Patriots
in the AFC title game a few years back. They know how to play the game
for the full 60 minutes. That's the thing the coaches have been preaching
to the players, and now they have seen the evidence of their coaches
demands with their own eyes. Go to Texans TV, and pull up the Jethro
Franklin interview. When asked what's the one thing he wants his young
players to get better at, he responds with only two words... "To Finish."

I do believe this team will bounce back, because Kubiak's "kids" have yet
to show ANY quit. That's the difference in the team before Kubiak got here
they are getting better bit by bit in EVERY game. Our three units need to
play well on the same Sunday, for us to get a win. Sunday's game against
the coach provided more "teachable moments" for our coaches, and I'm
confident the "kids" will understand the lesson this time.

Most fans won't get a word I've said here, and it really doesn't matter. Bob
McNair admires the Steelers organization for the reasons I've enumerated
in this post. As long as he understands the progress going on here, this
team will continue to improve.

So, let the rabid screaming begin...

spurstexanstros
10-07-2008, 12:25 PM
HOW IS THE TEAM IMPROVING EACH YEAR!!! WE ARE 0-4!! HOW IS THAT IMPROVING??? we were 6-10 his first year and then we got 7 real wins last year and a gimme. wow 2 wins better...now this year we start out 0-4. you do realize that we would have to 9-3 the rest of the year to even match last year much less improve upon it. give me a freaking break guys. the coaching sucks....period. he is what he is....a 2nd rate cheap hire.

jesus kriminey...why do some fans have such a hard time with doing basic math. ZERO is the lowest number you can have. How could this be considered an improvement.

I understand that some of you think that Kubiak is the 2nd coming of Del Rio or Fisher or whatever, but WHAT HAS HE DONE TO MAKE YOU BELIEVE IN HIM!! he hasn't shown anything than the propensity to give up leads and/or the ability make sure his team is 10 to 21 points down before his teams even show up.

last year was not that great of a year. you guys act like it was some magical year. we beat no one of consequence and our 8th win was giftwrapped for us and everyone knows the Jags would have whooped our arse if they would have had anything to play for.

I appreciate the supporting the fans thing but I just don't see how anyone can say Kubiak is a good head coach with a straight face. is he good just because he coaches the Texans...we sure haven't seen anything else that would point him out as a good coach.

geez, sometimes the homering and blind faith around here is just nauseating.

KUBIAK MUST GO!!

Year isnt over yet, plus he deserves another season because of the schedule and Ike. This was the hardest opening schedule I have ever seen. # out of 4 on the road against playoff teams to start the season, then Ike happened.
The team , its players and fans had other things on their mind. The Texans then played first three games on the road and would have won the game against the colts because of one player..not a coach.

The Texans have zero wins.....why? Was it the result of bad play or other teams playing well. They are not playing solitaire out there, my friend. Pitt has a really good defense and The Titans are playing realy well. I will give you the bad play in the last two games. Our D was bad in the jax game and one player cost the Texans the game against the colts.
Where I see the improvement is the offense. The texans have scored at least 2o+ points in the last three games. They just need to hit on all cylanders... Kubiak is getting them there.

Double Barrel
10-07-2008, 12:57 PM
Do you emotional "fans" understand how young this team is?

I have never understood this mentality. Fans come in all shapes, sizes, and mentalities. We come from different backgrounds and experiences, and each of us has a unique perspective to offer.

Why do you feel the need to insinuate that only YOU can define a fan? What makes you begin a post by belittling someone because they have an emotional moment after a very disappointing loss? In short, why do you feel superior to everyone else that does not share your opinions?

If someone is still following the Houston Texans at this point, then they are a fan. :texflag:

DBCooper
10-07-2008, 01:02 PM
I have never understood this mentality. Fans come in all shapes, sizes, and mentalities. We come from different backgrounds and experiences, and each of us has a unique perspective to offer.

Why do you feel the need to insinuate that only YOU can define a fan? What makes you begin a post by belittling someone because they have an emotional moment after a very disappointing loss? In short, why do you feel superior to everyone else that does not share your opinions?

If someone is still following the Houston Texans at this point, then they are a fan. :texflag:

I'm a Texan Fan, and I'm Mad as Hell!

drewmar74
10-07-2008, 01:23 PM
I have never understood this mentality. Fans come in all shapes, sizes, and mentalities. We come from different backgrounds and experiences, and each of us has a unique perspective to offer.

Why do you feel the need to insinuate that only YOU can define a fan? What makes you begin a post by belittling someone because they have an emotional moment after a very disappointing loss? In short, why do you feel superior to everyone else that does not share your opinions?

If someone is still following the Houston Texans at this point, then they are a fan. :texflag:

Damn skippy!

Kaiser Toro
10-07-2008, 02:58 PM
Do you emotional "fans" understand how young this team is?
Most of our players are in their third year or less of NFL football.
This team has more coaches than any team in the division.
Our coaches are more instructional than "ra-rah."

Every position coach on this team is a professor of technique.
These "kids" need coaches like that. Most of Kubiaks draftees were
young "raw" athletic players. His coaching staff is teaching them TO BE
the player their respective position calls for.

Go have a coke and a smile, because once these Texans get experience,
they are gonna be good for a long while.

This team went from pathetic, to quitters, to young, to inconsistent, to
competitive, to dominant (during 3 1/2 quarters.) Now, we need them to
take the next step to "finishers."

Peyton Manning and the Colts did this very same thing to the Patriots
in the AFC title game a few years back. They know how to play the game
for the full 60 minutes. That's the thing the coaches have been preaching
to the players, and now they have seen the evidence of their coaches
demands with their own eyes. Go to Texans TV, and pull up the Jethro
Franklin interview. When asked what's the one thing he wants his young
players to get better at, he responds with only two words... "To Finish."

I do believe this team will bounce back, because Kubiak's "kids" have yet
to show ANY quit. That's the difference in the team before Kubiak got here
they are getting better bit by bit in EVERY game. Our three units need to
play well on the same Sunday, for us to get a win. Sunday's game against
the coach provided more "teachable moments" for our coaches, and I'm
confident the "kids" will understand the lesson this time.

Most fans won't get a word I've said here, and it really doesn't matter. Bob
McNair admires the Steelers organization for the reasons I've enumerated
in this post. As long as he understands the progress going on here, this
team will continue to improve.

So, let the rabid screaming begin...


I honestly do not think you get what the rabid screaming is about from many. Perhaps you have not been a fan of this team since the inception. Perhaps you do not know what it is like to know that accountability, and cover (Mario Williams draft pick), in this organization's past has come from the rabid screamers. If not the fans demanding accountability for the awful game management that Kubiak has shown over the years, certainly it will not come from Rick Smith, the Chronicle or anywhere else.

Boselli, Gary Walker, Capers, Pendry, Fangio, Casserly, Carr, Robaire Smith, Green, Weaver & Moulds are just some obvious disconnects that we have had to endure in our time as Texans's fans.

Kubiak has shown to be a competent OC under the cover of an offensive mastermind of a coach. He has parlayed that experience to leverage the hiring of Gibbs and the West Coast offense Shanahan derivative. His means to an end are correct in my opinion.

Fire Kubiak carries a lot of emotion with it and doubt you can count on two hands the folks that have actually uttered those words on this board who have been fans since the inception. However, this is about results for the Texans, not Kubiak. I am a fan of Kubiak, but he has lost his way and have no doubt that he can watch the tape and know that he is not perfect. For me as a results oriented person who is a huge believer in employee development, the fire needs to be lit under his arse, and to be frank, that will only come from the fan base - not the FO, not the players and not the press.

Lastly, since McNair is a buisnessman he has seen his fair share of perfromance reviews and they invariably will be comprised of results, development and professionalism. As it stands in year 3 Kubiak has failed in the results bucket. The Dolphins just beat teams that played for the AFC Championship, after going 1-15. Rather than ***** and moan about the schedule, they got the results that their fans expect. We have never had that type of result so excuse us for being mildly emotional. All this fan asks is to win the next three home games against the Dolphins, Lions & Bengals, surely that would be a safe bet for those folks who are waving the tough schedule flag. :texflag:

Texecutioner
10-07-2008, 03:36 PM
I have never understood this mentality. Fans come in all shapes, sizes, and mentalities. We come from different backgrounds and experiences, and each of us has a unique perspective to offer.

Why do you feel the need to insinuate that only YOU can define a fan? What makes you begin a post by belittling someone because they have an emotional moment after a very disappointing loss? In short, why do you feel superior to everyone else that does not share your opinions?

If someone is still following the Houston Texans at this point, then they are a fan. :texflag:

:goodpost::texflag:

FirstTexansFan
10-07-2008, 03:51 PM
I just wish once a pissing contest on these MB's would end without all participants hitting their own shoes. Listen to the Air Force, "AIM HIGHER!" :)

Drew_Smoke
10-07-2008, 03:56 PM
All successful coaches or businessmen will tell you about alot of failures/miscues before they hit the top.

Its the ones that have never had that kind of pressure that sit back and point fingers when things don't go well. Just punch in 5 mins late and clock out 15 mins early and let the big boys right the ship.

If it was easy then 75% of this board could do it.

Kubes is my guy til further notice.

spurstexanstros
10-07-2008, 04:17 PM
I just wish once a pissing contest on these MB's would end without all participants hitting their own shoes. Listen to the Air Force, "AIM HIGHER!" :)

That has got to be the funniest thing I have ever heard on this board out side of VY being called Radio, or the Jags having tarpitude. great

DexmanC
10-07-2008, 04:47 PM
All successful coaches or businessmen will tell you about alot of failures/miscues before they hit the top.

Its the ones that have never had that kind of pressure that sit back and point fingers when things don't go well. Just punch in 5 mins late and clock out 15 mins early and let the big boys fix the ship.

If it was easy then 75% of this board could do it.

Kubes is my guy til further notice.

I 100% agree with this post. We are seeing a ton of young players (and
coaches) make a ton of mistakes every week. I see them making less of
the same ones week by week. The Texans, under Kubiak have been one
of the least penalized teams in the league. That speaks volumes to the
level of discipline he has instilled. Young players screw up, and when
they hang their heads, and don't come back stronger the next week,
I have a problem.

Remember, the Texans had the Jacksonville game won, until the defense
couldn't stop Gerrard on 4 and 8 from running up the gut. That was a
hard loss, but they came back stronger last Sunday. When they stop
coming back stronger after tough times, Kubiak will cease to be my coach.

I wish the fans were a little more like the team.

DBCooper
10-07-2008, 07:14 PM
I wish the fans were a little more like the team.

I think the team needs to be more like some fans.

Fans that are sick of mediocrity.

Fans that expect and demand something better.

Fans that want to win.

Fans that don't do helicopter impersonations.

b0ng
10-07-2008, 07:24 PM
I think the team needs to be more like some fans.

Fans that are sick of mediocrity.

Fans that expect and demand something better.

Fans that want to win.

Fans that don't do helicopter impersonations.

So you're okay with the players showing up to the game piss drunk?

Second Honeymoon
10-07-2008, 09:01 PM
I have never understood this mentality. Fans come in all shapes, sizes, and mentalities. We come from different backgrounds and experiences, and each of us has a unique perspective to offer.

Why do you feel the need to insinuate that only YOU can define a fan? What makes you begin a post by belittling someone because they have an emotional moment after a very disappointing loss? In short, why do you feel superior to everyone else that does not share your opinions?

If someone is still following the Houston Texans at this point, then they are a fan. :texflag:

no truer words have ever been spoken.

i'd even go a step further and that anyone who is a Houston professional football fan has been through more than just about any other fanbase. We have seen it all. And we keep coming back. Are we stubborn? stupid? gluttons for punishment? Nope. We are just fans. Fans that all want to win 'again' *chuckle* One day it will finally come. No doubt. I'd just like for it to happen before I need a walker.

DBCooper
10-07-2008, 10:46 PM
So you're okay with the players showing up to the game piss drunk?

As long as they are mean drunks! lol

Malloy
10-08-2008, 03:00 AM
So you're okay with the players showing up to the game piss drunk?

Drunk I can handle, but seeing AJ lining up with a paper bag over his head... not so much :)

Exascor
11-12-2013, 06:32 AM
FYI-the old All Encompassing Fire Kubiak & Replacement thread is invalid. It's supposed to be http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2247451#post2247451 but doesn't show up for many of us. Maybe only mods can see it?

Here's a new (old) thread I necroed to keep from starting another one.

amazing80
11-12-2013, 08:21 AM
FYI-the old All Encompassing Fire Kubiak & Replacement thread is invalid. It's supposed to be http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2247451#post2247451 but doesn't show up for many of us. Maybe only mods can see it?

Here's a new (old) thread I necroed to keep from starting another one.

the problem is they merged a coaching candidate thread with it....we were discussing coaching options in that one.....

kingtexan
11-12-2013, 09:12 AM
Do you emotional "fans" understand how young this team is?

We dont play that in Texas!

My son is 5 and he better get his **** together if he plans on seeing 7!!! :overreact:

Seriously though they may be young but are paid more than most of us will make in a lifetime, so it is hard for us to look at it as they need to learn. They need to perform and earn their money.

TheIronDuke
11-12-2013, 09:43 AM
We dont play that in Texas!

My son is 5 and he better get his **** together if he plans on seeing 7!!! :overreact:

Seriously though they may be young but are paid more than most of us will make in a lifetime, so it is hard for us to look at it as they need to learn. They need to perform and earn their money.

Might want to check the date of the post you're responding to.

HJam72
11-12-2013, 09:47 AM
You guys are STILL talking about the Rosencopter game? :jk:

kingtexan
11-12-2013, 10:00 AM
Might want to check the date of the post you're responding to.

My bad, not sure why threads that old are even allowed to be re-hashed ... oh wait its TT.

Dutchrudder
11-12-2013, 10:05 AM
Rep to the OP for the angry face. It's a nice touch.

Double Barrel
11-12-2013, 10:09 AM
http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/file.php?2,file=31749,filename=DeadThread.jpg