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View Full Version : New options for defensive coordinator?


DerekLee1
09-30-2008, 06:25 PM
It's unlikely Dick Smith will be fired mid-season, but his head will roll after the season is over. Any ideas for a replacement? I'm holding out hope that Marvin Lewis will get fired in Cincinnati and we snap him up the same day.

Alternatively, I'd love to see Ron Rivera opposite Kyle S as well.

I still think Kubiak is the right coach for this team, but we really need some creative genius on the defensive side of the ball. There's too much talent and talent potential to be tapped to be this bad.

Double Barrel
09-30-2008, 06:29 PM
If Frank Bush was Kubiak's original choice, I have little doubt that Bush will get the DC job once Smith is gone.

But man, it would be nice to see Rivera here.

kiwitexansfan
09-30-2008, 07:05 PM
There's too much talent and talent potential to be tapped to be this bad.

Really?? Is there?? Who?

I'll give you Mario, Demeco, Amobi, I'll even throw in Bennett.

If Frank Bush was Kubiak's original choice, I have little doubt that Bush will get the DC job once Smith is gone.

If Bush is the guy Kubiak wants, why are the bothering with Smith? Are you telling me that it is because they don't want to buy him out? He is getting paid anyway, as is Bush. I don't buy it myself, I honestly believed if Smith wasn't the guy they wanted now, and the best they felt was available, that they would make a move.

b0ng
09-30-2008, 07:21 PM
Really?? Is there?? Who?

I'll give you Mario, Demeco, Amobi, I'll even throw in Bennett.


When you have players that come up big (Think Cortland Finnegan for the Titans) for your squad throughout the year, you are much better off. But we haven't had any good player development really from most of our non superstars. We can't have a team full of pro bowlers to have a great, good, or even competent defense.

The fact that our players not named Mario, DeMeco, and Fred means that there is something very fudged with player development.

kiwitexansfan
09-30-2008, 08:05 PM
When you have players that come up big (Think Cortland Finnegan for the Titans) for your squad throughout the year, you are much better off. But we haven't had any good player development really from most of our non superstars. We can't have a team full of pro bowlers to have a great, good, or even competent defense.

The fact that our players not named Mario, DeMeco, and Fred means that there is something very fudged with player development.

I guess my question is whether there is the talent there to develop, you can't make chicken soup out of chicken sh.....

Texans_Chick
09-30-2008, 09:15 PM
If Frank Bush was Kubiak's original choice, I have little doubt that Bush will get the DC job once Smith is gone.

But man, it would be nice to see Rivera here.

Frank Bush was Kubiak's original choice to be co-coordinator with Richard Smith, but the Cardinals wouldn't let him go. He had worked with Smith before back in the day.

Nothing in Bush's background (http://www.houstontexans.com/team/coach.asp?coach_id=21) that makes you go, gee, he's the guy to take us to the promised land:

2007-08: Senior Defensive Assistant, Houston Texans
2006: Asst. Head Coach/Linebackers, Arizona Cardinals
2004-05: Linebackers, Arizona Cardinals
2001-03: Special Teams, Denver Broncos
2000: Secondary/Nickel Package, Denver Broncos
1995-99: Linebackers, Denver Broncos
1992-94: Linebackers, Houston Oilers
1987-92: Scout, Houston Oilers

TexanSam
09-30-2008, 09:18 PM
Would love to see Ron Rivera come in. If Cleveland and/or the 49ers have a bad year and Mike Nolan and/or Romeo Crennel is let go I'd like to take a look at them as well.

Texans_Chick
09-30-2008, 09:22 PM
Really?? Is there?? Who?

I'll give you Mario, Demeco, Amobi, I'll even throw in Bennett.



If Bush is the guy Kubiak wants, why are the bothering with Smith? Are you telling me that it is because they don't want to buy him out? He is getting paid anyway, as is Bush. I don't buy it myself, I honestly believed if Smith wasn't the guy they wanted now, and the best they felt was available, that they would make a move.

It's not a pay thing. At the time that the Texans were looking for DCs, there weren't a bunch of great candidates out there. The Texans went with Smith, and Smith has had a number of reasons why things weren't going well (transition from the 3-4, offense can't hold onto the ball, key injuries). McNair is a patient owner and wants to get fair judgment of performance. The things that are most problematic about Smith is his problems with adjusting in game to stuff that is happening on the field (the obvious example is the Lee Evans abomination game or the recent Garrard runfest).

The Texans usually let people get out of the organization with some sort of honor intact if they can. Palmer is really the only exception to that.

beerlover
09-30-2008, 09:25 PM
apparently its not what you know its who you know :friends:

RipTraxx
09-30-2008, 09:30 PM
Would love to see Ron Rivera come in. If Cleveland and/or the 49ers have a bad year and Mike Nolan and/or Romeo Crennel is let go I'd like to take a look at them as well.

49'ers let nolan go we could grab Singletary.

Crennel does the 3-4. Not a fan....we need a pass rushing DE to complete the 4-3

TexanSam
09-30-2008, 09:35 PM
Maybe Rod Marinelli if he gets fired by Detroit

Texans_Chick
09-30-2008, 09:59 PM
apparently its not what you know its who you know :friends:

Who you know actually does matter too.

One of the problems with the early Texans teams is that Casserly hired a mishmash of people whose philosophies really didn't work together well.

Yes, it is important to be good at what you do, but given how much time they work together and how important it is to be on the same page, having coaches that are familiar with each other saves on getting to know you time.

All that being said, the Smith-Bush combo, or Smith alone as DC, wasn't a particularly exciting hire for me, despite the fact that McClain knew them back in the day.

The Pencil Neck
09-30-2008, 10:17 PM
I guess my question is whether there is the talent there to develop, you can't make chicken soup out of chicken sh.....

But if you're a crappy cook, you can make the most expensive and wonderful ingredients taste like chicken sh...

And I think there's talent on this team. I think there's talent on this defense and if they're used correctly, they can be good. We just have to use them to their strengths and try to hide their weaknesses. That's what every good coordinator does.

mussop
09-30-2008, 10:21 PM
If Marvin Lewis is available he should be the choice IMO. I think there is little doubt he will be fired. In fact if he was fired tomorrow I would be telling Smith hidey ho while holding my cell phone to my ear waiting for Lewis to answer.

Htownsportsfan
09-30-2008, 10:21 PM
[QUOTE=kiwitexansfan;1011139]Really?? Is there?? Who?

I'll give you Mario, Demeco, Amobi, I'll even throw in Bennett.


I wont give you Amobi at this point! I was very high on this pick but Amobi has not shown much on either pass or run defense. It also makes me nervous when I hear media types say thing like "he really lights up and shows passion talking about his foundation but does not show the same passion about football".

Mario is playing out of his mind so far this year and looks great. Demeco is playing well but has gotten out of position at times to cover the fact Diles has broken from his assigment, Bennett has talent but got himself pulled Sunday for whatever reason.

I like to think Mario, Demeco, Dunta and Bennett as well as Amobi will be the great talent but right now on two of those guys are studs. We need more spped at LB to help Demeco and a real thumber to make people afraid in the middle. Ryans has great instincts and a nose for the ball but he is not a knock out hitter so we need to getr one next to him.

TEXANRED
09-30-2008, 10:27 PM
How about www.IwillpeeinmypantsforRonRiveraasmydefensivecood inator.com

Now that, I would gladly, and proudly, pee in my pants for.

Double Barrel
09-30-2008, 10:57 PM
If Bush is the guy Kubiak wants, why are the bothering with Smith? Are you telling me that it is because they don't want to buy him out? He is getting paid anyway, as is Bush. I don't buy it myself, I honestly believed if Smith wasn't the guy they wanted now, and the best they felt was available, that they would make a move.

I'm not trying to tell you anything, especially the reason(s) behind the 'loyalty' to Richard Smith in spite of 2+ seasons of sub-par defense.

Perhaps you're right and Smith is the best that they thought they could get. We will probably never know any truth outside of the official company press conference.

He was unproven when he got here, and he's proven nothing positive since he's been here. If talent is the problem, then he should be blamed for that, too, simply because he was part of the evaluation process.

Frank Bush was Kubiak's original choice to be co-coordinator with Richard Smith, but the Cardinals wouldn't let him go. He had worked with Smith before back in the day.

Nothing in Bush's background (http://www.houstontexans.com/team/coach.asp?coach_id=21) that makes you go, gee, he's the guy to take us to the promised land:

2007-08: Senior Defensive Assistant, Houston Texans
2006: Asst. Head Coach/Linebackers, Arizona Cardinals
2004-05: Linebackers, Arizona Cardinals
2001-03: Special Teams, Denver Broncos
2000: Secondary/Nickel Package, Denver Broncos
1995-99: Linebackers, Denver Broncos
1992-94: Linebackers, Houston Oilers
1987-92: Scout, Houston Oilers

I didn't realize that he was the original choice to be co-coordinator. How many teams run a co-coordinator system? The whole approach seems flawed, and the results speak for themselves at the end of the day.

And I forgot Bush was part of the 35-3 debacle. He's tainted. It's bad juju to be here. Get rid of both of them and get a proven defensive coordinator (like successful teams do).

But if you're a crappy cook, you can make the most expensive and wonderful ingredients taste like chicken sh...

And I think there's talent on this team. I think there's talent on this defense and if they're used correctly, they can be good. We just have to use them to their strengths and try to hide their weaknesses. That's what every good coordinator does.

I feel the same way. I've seen too many examples in the NFL over the years where a new coach can breath fresh life into the same talent.

AnthonyE
09-30-2008, 11:13 PM
49'ers let nolan go we could grab Singletary.

Crennel does the 3-4. Not a fan....we need a pass rushing DE to complete the 4-3

I think I remember reading that Singletary would love to coach for the Texans. But this was like last year, so I'm not really sure.

dalemurphy
10-01-2008, 12:52 AM
I think I remember reading that Singletary would love to coach for the Texans. But this was like last year, so I'm not really sure.

That's an interesting idea. I would definitely like to see someone come in here that believes in pressure defense. I think that is what this team is built for- evidence on the field notwithstanding. Here's why, looking to 2009:

1. Significant talent and depth at CB: DRobinson, Bennett, Molden, Reeves are all CBs with the skills to hold up well and play the ball for a few seconds.

2. Undersized but fairly talented DTs: TJ, Okoye- they should both be playing one gap most of the time.

3. Mario's presence on the field demands special attention and would free up a lot of things for weakside and overloaded blitzes, etc. An agressive and talented D.C. could have Mario isolated on the lineman of his choice or have a blitzer running free most of the game.

4. An offense with the ability to score. Therefore, if the defense focuses on turnovers and big plays with agressiveness, it increases the tempo of the game and therefore increases the number of posessions for the offense.

5. I'm a frustrated fan that would like to see something differenet... like an agressive defense because the idea of beating the heck out of the opposing QB sounds good, even if the style of defense doesn't make much football sense.

leebigeztx
10-01-2008, 01:29 AM
I think one of the most underrated things about pro football is the importance of assistant coaches. Those guys are the "teachers" of the positions that make everything in the unit go. They all coordinate with the coordinator. They "coach up" the players and get the young guys ready to play and develop. Belichek is one of the best db coaches period. That's why they seem to win with low rd picks like samuels,sanders, and a list of no names. Hell, they even won with a receiver playing db. Look at how many lb's indy has lost to free agency. U can start with mike peterson, marcus washington, cato june to name a few. Not only that, look at guys like bethea,jackson, sanders, and other that have played well in that secondary.Now many will point to the cover 2 and stuff, but detroit plays the same and so does kc, but they're players aren't playing at the same level as those guys.

Now to the main topic, who would be a great dc? The usual suspects like the fired hc like lewis,nolan, plus rivera, singletary and guys like that make sense also. They can also raid guys from successful defenses especially in division like washburn in tenn or teerlink in indy. Whom ever they decide must be able to bring in coaches that can coach the positions the way he wants. The philosophy of that side needs to be established to mesh with the talent that's here now and in the future. We know some dc's like a certain type of player to play his style. Looking at the time it took the giants defense to adapt to the style of spags last yr tells you it takes time and talent. I personally like the ideas of say like lewis when he gets fired. I think he would like to get another 2 gapper lke okam and slide Okoye to the end spot like gb did with jenkins and giants did with tuck. I also like the diversity of teerlink from indy. He's coaching a 1 gap stunt front in indy, but he was a good coach with fisher also. Washburn has some 1 gap principles too, but he's a stunt front kind of guy to genate pressure. Theres a lot of good candidates, they just need get it right.

mussop
10-01-2008, 01:36 AM
That's an interesting idea. I would definitely like to see someone come in here that believes in pressure defense. I think that is what this team is built for-


Really? If you were DC how would you pressure the opposing QB's with the current talent we have? Just Currious because I keep hearing this over and over. I just dont see how it could be done with this cast of players.

You cant say put Cochran in at DE instead of Weaver and Adibi in instead of either OLB either because they have both been hurt. What would you of done different?

dalemurphy
10-01-2008, 08:31 AM
Really? If you were DC how would you pressure the opposing QB's with the current talent we have? Just Currious because I keep hearing this over and over. I just dont see how it could be done with this cast of players.

You cant say put Cochran in at DE instead of Weaver and Adibi in instead of either OLB either because they have both been hurt. What would you of done different?

1. Show pressure fronts most of the time. Don't always bring pressure but show the threat of it.

2. Create pressure by bringing numbers and creating confusion... Laying back against Jacksonville, Tennessee, and Pittsburgh may have kept the score down around 30 but defensively we never stopped those teams, they simply controlled the ball, the tempo, and scored at their pace... I'd gladly take giving up another 4-7 points a game if we get another turnover, create more negative plays including sacks, and the offense gets 2 extra posessions in the game.

3. I'm not a D.C. so I don't know.

Runner
10-01-2008, 09:21 AM
Really? If you were DC how would you pressure the opposing QB's with the current talent we have? Just Currious because I keep hearing this over and over. I just dont see how it could be done with this cast of players.


We keep hearing this sentiment over and over again too.

The defense has been such a failure this year that the brain trust has to try something different. They are paid to find solutions to problems, not resign thmselves to the status quo of giving up an average of 33 points per game.

TheRealJoker
10-01-2008, 09:28 AM
I cant wait till Marvin Lewis is fired in Cincy!!! He's the elite DC we need to complement Kubiak and the rest of the offensive specialists we've got coaching our team. We need a DC that Kubes can say, "I trust your judgment so i'm not even gonna tamper with your unit. Do whatever you want because I know we're gonna be okay with whatever you do."

Marvin Lewis has a TRACK RECORD that proves he's that type of DC. Richard Smith has a TRACK RECORD that proves he's nowhere near that class of DC.

beerlover
10-01-2008, 11:23 AM
I cant wait till Marvin Lewis is fired in Cincy!!! He's the elite DC we need to complement Kubiak and the rest of the offensive specialists we've got coaching our team. We need a DC that Kubes can say, "I trust your judgment so i'm not even gonna tamper with your unit. Do whatever you want because I know we're gonna be okay with whatever you do."

Marvin Lewis has a TRACK RECORD that proves he's that type of DC. Richard Smith has a TRACK RECORD that proves he's nowhere near that class of DC.

yes but does he have a Denver Bronco or Colorado State pedigree :pigfly:

mussop
10-01-2008, 03:39 PM
We keep hearing this sentiment over and over again too.

The defense has been such a failure this year that the brain trust has to try something different. They are paid to find solutions to problems, not resign thmselves to the status quo of giving up an average of 33 points per game.

I agree something has to change. I just dont think its totally Richard Smiths fault. I would love it if we brought in a DC with a better track record though. Hey anytime you can make an upgrade you should. Lewis should be getting the ax soon. Is there a better DC than him anywhere in the NFL?

BigWig
10-01-2008, 03:57 PM
Don't we still have Ray Rhodes? Whats wrong with him? I thought he did well in Philly!

mussop
10-01-2008, 04:01 PM
Don't we still have Ray Rhodes? Whats wrong with him? I thought he did well in Philly!

He is another good option as is Frank Bush but if we could get Marvin Lewis that would be such a coupe it would make me cry. Lewis is the best DC since Buddy Ryan IMO.

Ole Miss Texan
10-01-2008, 04:15 PM
yes but does he have a Denver Bronco or Colorado State pedigree :pigfly:

Marvin Lewis did serve as a coaching intern for the 49'ers while George Seifert was Head Coach. Several years later, Gary Kubiak was hired as Quarterback's Coach of the 49'ers under the same Head Coach.

Not quite the Bronco/Colorado St. connection- but a connection nonetheless!

mussop
10-01-2008, 04:20 PM
Marvin Lewis did serve as a coaching intern for the 49'ers while George Seifert was Head Coach. Several years later, Gary Kubiak was hired as Quarterback's Coach of the 49'ers under the same Head Coach.

Not quite the Bronco/Colorado St. connection- but a connection nonetheless!

Sounds good, lets get him on speed dial.

J-Russ
10-01-2008, 06:04 PM
Well, considering how Frank Bush spent 8 years in Denver with Kubiak, I'll trust him if he decides to go the Bush route. Kubiak should know what hes getting if he elect Bush for DC, and besides Gary always had an eye for talent....