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Silver Oak
09-29-2008, 09:41 AM
After re-watching in slow motion a few times, here's the sequence as I see it. The overlaid scoreboard is in the way of the Texans sideline, so all players and coaches are not visible:

-Jacoby Jones is busy counting Texans players making sure we have the right number on the field...apparently he is not looking into the Jags backfield.

-unidentified Texans player scrambling to get off the field before the snap. Must be why JJ was counting.

-Antwaun Molden runs back and forth trying to find his spot, which is on the other side where there is only one Texan ready to bump the Jags ST player.

-referee almost backs into and blocks Molden. ***** zebra.

-unidentified Texans coaches, at least two, seem to become animated judging by their walk. maybe they saw something on the field...can't tell due to CBS scoreboard display.

-Fred Bennett can be seen looking into the Jags backfield, yet still does not change his position.

-Dominique Barber gets turned around and is not able to get a clean tackle attempt on runner.

-Del Rio raises his arms in triumph on the sidelines.

-Jacoby Jones makes fairly pathetic tackle attempt.

-Faggins and Bennett become aware of the fake...Faggins tries to strip the ball and misses the tackle.

-Jacques Reeves and Dreesen arrive just in time to congratulate the Hag on a great fake.

My take: there was some confusion on assignments to begin with on this play. Yes, of course someone should have called TO, but maybe like Kubiak said, they saw it and thought they could stop it. I tend to agre with him...they should have been able to stop a 4 yd run. However, the Jags did a great job on the blocking up front, catching the Texans line off balance.

Texan_Bill
09-29-2008, 09:55 AM
-Jacques Reeves and Dreesen arrive just in time to congratulate the Hag on a great fake..

Best line from the analysis... :pirate:

Arky
09-29-2008, 09:58 AM
I did the same thing - I must've rewatched it about 10 times. I pretty much saw it the same way.

Two things stood out to me:

1. Once the play started, Bennett and Faggins were so locked onto the same gunner that they didn't realize what was happening until it was almost too late. Faggins trying to strip with no attempt to make the tackle was just lame.

2. After the play, Kubes could be seen "discussing" what had just happened with someone upstairs. He was not happy. I wish I was a better lip reader...

Corrosion
09-29-2008, 10:20 AM
I did the same thing - I must've rewatched it about 10 times. I pretty much saw it the same way.

Two things stood out to me:

1. Once the play started, Bennett and Faggins were so locked onto the same gunner that they didn't realize what was happening until it was almost too late. Faggins trying to strip with no attempt to make the tackle was just lame.

2. After the play, Kubes could be seen "discussing" what had just happened with someone upstairs. He was not happy. I wish I was a better lip reader...

We've seen more than just this issue with ... "the guy upstairs" ..... I doubt that guy keeps his job.

Runner
09-29-2008, 10:21 AM
Who did the Texans have on the field, specifically on the 'defensive' line? Regardless of the touchdown run, Kubiak was counting on them to stop a four yard run against the Jags' offensive line. Just how overmatched were they?

Runner
09-29-2008, 10:47 AM
From what I can remember and from the contents of this thread, the play sets up as follows. Please correct any details I'm wrong about.

The Jags had two gunners and a fullback taking a direct snap. This left eight regular offensive players on the line to block.

The Texans had one kick returner and four guys on the outside blocking the gunners. Is this correct, or was there only three on the outside? If it was four, that leaves six players on the line for the Texans.

This results in six, maybe seven Texans on the defensive line, many of them special teamers. The Jaguars had eight people blocking them, including their strarting offensive linemen.

Why does Kubiak think they were set up to stuff the play? The Texans were easily outnumbered and 'out-talented' all along the area of attack.

Vinny
09-29-2008, 11:16 AM
We were asleep and not ready to play till they scored on that play. I saw a combination of bad coaching, poor instincts from players, poor leadership from whomever is the lead player on field, and some of the most atrocious tackling I've ever seen on a NFL team. It looked like they were in some pre-season drill and nobody wanted to get their uniform dirty. I've seen pop warner team players sell out their bodies more than these guys who only made half-ass attempts to strip the ball....unreal and unacceptable. The team should be totally embarrassed by that play and the rest of the league has it on tape forever...and they are all laughing at us.

Thorn
09-29-2008, 11:27 AM
I did not tape the game, but I do remember the ball carrier was running downfield with a Texan right beside him. They actually bumped each other, and the Texan never made an attempt to tackle the ball carrier. I've never seen anything like that before.

jdog
09-29-2008, 11:59 AM
I did the same thing - I must've rewatched it about 10 times. I pretty much saw it the same way.

Two things stood out to me:

1. Once the play started, Bennett and Faggins were so locked onto the same gunner that they didn't realize what was happening until it was almost too late. Faggins trying to strip with no attempt to make the tackle was just lame.

2. After the play, Kubes could be seen "discussing" what had just happened with someone upstairs. He was not happy. I wish I was a better lip reader...

I just think it should be noted that Faggins at least tried to do something. What the hell was Bennett doing? They were both in a position to keep Owens out of the endzone.

Barber was blocked and didn't handle it well, but he was trying and has an excuse.

Jones tackles like a wide receiver. I guess that's a good excuse.

Faggins and Bennett have no excuse. Reeves and Dreesen should have hustled more.

Overall, the coaches get the blame for this bull. The players were not put in a position to win this battle.

Although, as a coach, I would expect my players to not **** up like these guys did. There were at least three guys that had a legitimate opportunity to stop the runner. It's just that they were 6'0" 190lb guys going after a full back with blockers.

TexansLucky13
09-29-2008, 12:06 PM
Although, as a coach, I would expect my players to not **** up like these guys did. There were at least three guys that had a legitimate opportunity to stop the runner. It's just that they were 6'0" 190lb guys going after a full back with blockers.

Well that's the key, isn't it? For all we know, they may have run these types of simulations in practice. Kubiak was confident that the guys would make the plays. Obviously they did not.

I would have preferred he call a TO, but sometimes you should trust your guys. It would have shown a lot of focus and determination if our players had've made it.

nunusguy
09-29-2008, 12:17 PM
Anytime a team gives up a big gain, especially a TD on a cutsey, trick-play like this its on the coaching staff. End of story.

leebigeztx
09-29-2008, 12:23 PM
The guys upstairs are supposed to recognize personel and relay to coaches on the field. The moment no punter or kicker ran out, kubes shouldve been notified and proper personel run out. It seems the people kubes is relying on for info is kiling him right now.

Arky
09-29-2008, 12:24 PM
From what I can remember and from the contents of this thread, the play sets up as follows. Please correct any details I'm wrong about.

The Jags had two gunners and a fullback taking a direct snap. This left eight regular offensive players on the line to block.

The Texans had one kick returner and four guys on the outside blocking the gunners. Is this correct, or was there only three on the outside? If it was four, that leaves six players on the line for the Texans.

This results in six, maybe seven Texans on the defensive line, many of them special teamers. The Jaguars had eight people blocking them, including their strarting offensive linemen.

Why does Kubiak think they were set up to stuff the play? The Texans were easily outnumbered and 'out-talented' all along the area of attack.

At the start of the play, Montell Owens was in the "tailback" position, hands on knees. Greg Jones was slightly in front of him, in a 3 pt stance in the "fullback" position. Antwuan Molden rushes over to help Reeves with the gunner on the far side (top of screen). Bennett and Faggins are preoccupied with the gunner on the near side. Podlesh (#3), the punter, is actually on the field and lines up kinda flanker style right next to the far side (left) tackle. The Texans had a "front 6".

Another thing that made this work was the quick huddle. Texans (Reeves for one) had to scramble to get on their side of the ball so as not to be caught offsides.

After the snap to Owens, Greg Jones goes lead blocker to the right side, Owens follows. Dominique Barber playing "left DE" (near side) gets spun around, twisted up and stumbles. Owens blows by him. JJ tries a tackle and misses. Faggins tries to strip and gets pushed down by a blocker. Owens was home free after that.

Honoring Earl 34
09-29-2008, 12:26 PM
This video might be the play .

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter?game_id=29578&season=2008&displayPage=tab_gamecenter

Polo
09-29-2008, 12:30 PM
Wow...

No one places any blame on Marciano ?

It was his unit out there on the field...meaning he should have been extra attentative...

Why didn't he have his unit more prepared? Why didn't he say anything when he noticed the funky formation?

Special teams haven't been anything special this season.

Vinny
09-29-2008, 12:32 PM
Wow...

No one places any blame on Marciano ?


plenty of us have mentioned the coaches being asleep...you just gotta read it before you straw man it.

Norg
09-29-2008, 01:06 PM
i havent watched it in detail but who ever was the PR and stood in the backfield was a idoit

the lightbulb in his head should have exploded when he seen no punter and the Jags QB on the field !!!!!!!!!!!!

Polo
09-29-2008, 01:09 PM
plenty of us have mentioned the coaches being asleep...you just gotta read it before you straw man it.

No, No...

Not "coaches"...

I said Marciano...That was his unit on the field...

Poor job by him...

Brando
09-29-2008, 01:09 PM
i havent watched it in detail but who ever was the PR and stood in the backfield was a idoit

the lightbulb in his head should have exploded when he seen no punter and the Jags QB on the field !!!!!!!!!!!!

But the Jags QB wasn't on the field.:thinking:

powerfuldragon
09-29-2008, 01:09 PM
Special teams haven't been anything special this season.

i'm thinking other folks have been planning for our ST pretty effectively without any sort of response from our end. infuriating.

HoustonFrog
09-30-2008, 08:16 AM
On the Kubes show yesterday he kind of changed his tune about not calling the timeout. Instead of acting like they had it stuffed he admitted that they knew it was coming but that the personnel on the field became confused before the snap so THEN a timeout may have bene necessary....he said it was his fault for that.

kwayshauntay
09-30-2008, 10:01 AM
For those that didn't see the play, here's what I posted in another thread:

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1009494&postcount=51
Here are two replays of that pathetic fake punt.

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80b35466
http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80b2b9aa

#34 Dominique Barber totally whiffed. He's supposed to be a safety, an aspiring NFL caliber defensive player. His hard hitting brother in Dallas should demand that Dominique change his last name, effectively immediately.

#12 Jacoby Jones whiffed, but he's not a defensive player, so his ineptness gets a pass, I guess.

#38 DeMarcus Faggins was horrible. He did his best Philip Buchanon impression there. He had the best shot at stopping the guy, but he makes a weak effort to strip the ball instead.

#32 Fred Bennett barely even ran. He must've been shell shocked, slow to figure out what was going on.

And not a single Texans player seemed to notice that THEY DIDN'T EVEN HAVE A KICKER IN THE BACKFIELD!!

Epitome of keystone cops on that play.

I see the same things as the OP. On that play, every player on the field was sleepwalking, and every coach went brain dead.

And to Jacoby's credit it looked like he sold out trying to tackle the guy, as he came sprinting up towards the line and ended up sprawled on the ground. He over pursued and took a horrible angle, but at least he dove after the guy. He doesn't know how to tackle, but he tried.

I have no idea what Faggins was thinking, but then again you can say that about Faggins on almost every play.

Double Barrel
09-30-2008, 10:07 AM
Once again the glaring failure on this defense and special teams is an inability to take care of fundamentals. Specifically, TACKLE THE DAMN BALL CARRIER!!

Too many blown tackles, trying to tackle the ball instead of the carrier, and just bad technique. That is a pathetic display for a pro team.

Blake
09-30-2008, 10:37 AM
Im just pissed that Kubiak assumes we are going to stuff a team running the ball when we are in a punt return formation. That is just retarded.

Specnatz
09-30-2008, 12:00 PM
Wow...

No one places any blame on Marciano ?

It was his unit out there on the field...meaning he should have been extra attentative...

Why didn't he have his unit more prepared? Why didn't he say anything when he noticed the funky formation?

Special teams haven't been anything special this season.

plenty of us have mentioned the coaches being asleep...you just gotta read it before you straw man it.

He is referring to specifically. Look at all the threads and his name is not mentioned specifically like Kubiaks is. so maybe he is not the one who is doing the 'straw man' thing what ever that means. It is easier to make an assumption that the poster does not know what he is talking about and that you are the only one who does than think about what he is saying.