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J-Russ
09-26-2008, 03:49 PM
Titans coach Jeff Fisher has a 5-0 record against Texans coach Gary Kubiak.

It’s a good thing owner Bud Adams didn’t listen to Houston fans when they didn’t want Fisher hired because he was a longtime assistant with no head coaching experience and later when they wanted him fired because it took his team so long to compile a winning record.

Fisher’s record after his first 34 games was 14-20. Guess what Kubiak’s record is at the same stage of his career? If you answered 14-20, come to the front of the class.

And yet so many fans want Kubiak fired two games into his third season – road losses to Pittsburgh and Tennessee, who are a combined 5-1 after making the playoffs last season.

Fisher took over the Oilers 10 games into the 1994 season. He finished 8-8 in his second full season, same as Kubiak.

Fisher didn’t have a winning record until the 1999 season when they became the Titans, and the franchise reached the Super Bowl for the first time.

Now Fisher is recognized as one of the NFL’s best coaches. He has the longest current tenure with his team.

I remember how negative fans were toward Fisher when they’d call the talk shows. I remember him getting hammered by callers to his postgame call-in show and again on his Monday night radio show.

I remember going to the office, getting my mail and reading letters from irate fans demanding that Fisher be fired.

Early on, Fisher made some bad decisions. One was how he used running back Lorenzo White.

It backfired. Fisher said he’d never make that mistake again. As far as I know, he hasn’t.

Fisher started his head coaching career with an 0-5 record.

In that fifth loss at Kansas City, the Oilers scored, and Fisher called for a flea-flicker on the extra-point kick.

He had the holder, punter Rich Camarillo, try to throw a two-point conversion pass to his deep snapper, guard Bruce Matthews.

Naturally, it didn’t work. It was a terrible decision, asking a punter to throw a pass over the middle to a guard.

Afterward, Fisher admitted it was a foolish call and vowed to never make that mistake again.

As far as I know, he hasn’t.

On my report card after that Chiefs game, I remember giving Fisher an F-minus with an explanation that said something like, “Because there’s no G.”

Fisher learned from those mistakes.

In 2004, the Titans finished 5-11. They went 4-12 in 2005. They were 0-5 in 2006. Fans and media who had been loyal to Fisher became restless.

Many thought it was time for a change. Adams supported Fisher, and the Titans closed 8-3 to finish 8-8.

Last season, Tennessee finished 10-6 and made the playoffs for the first time since 2003. This season, they’re 3-0 and one of five unbeaten teams.

Bob McNair is a patient owner. Kubiak isn’t going anywhere now or after this season. interpretation, everyone clamoring for Kubiak's head needs to SHUT UP.

Perhaps, like Fisher, Kubiak will learn from his mistakes and become one of the league’s best coaches. Perhaps he won’t.

My point is that everyone who wants to can Kubiak two games into his third season might want to consider some local history before they’re so quick to pull the plug and demand that the franchise start over for a third time.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/6023629.html

Texans_Chick
09-26-2008, 05:01 PM
Bob McNair has repeatedly said how much he admires the stability in the Steelers organization.

I would prefer that over an owner like Dan Snyder or some knowitall sort of owner who continuously overrules the football peoples.

DiehardChris
09-26-2008, 05:12 PM
Bob McNair has repeatedly said how much he admires the stability in the Steelers organization.

I would prefer that over an owner like Dan Snyder or some knowitall sort of owner who continuously overrules the football peoples.

Yeah - and people should also look at Dan Snyder as an example of what happens when you blow tons of money on big-name free agents.

brakos82
09-26-2008, 05:15 PM
I would prefer that over an owner like Dan Snyder or some knowitall sort of owner who continuously overrules the football peoples.

Or Al Davis, who has first-hand experience of building Rome in, well, not a day.

Insideop
09-26-2008, 05:47 PM
I have to say that I think McClain is right on this one. You have to give a coach some time to fully implement his style of play and how he wants the team to play. Then, you have to factor in all the variables that come into play, like drafting, FA, your OC and DC coaching styles, what shape the team was in when you were hired, your GM, your Owner (does he mettle?),etc.,etc... I guess what I'm trying to say is, that sometimes the journey is long and difficult.

I still believe Kubes will turn this around and have a winning season this year, but if he doesn't, I'm still going to support him and the team. Call me a blind homer if you want, but I still think Kubes is the right man for the job and he will bring a championship to Houston. JMHO! :gotexans1

Corrosion
09-26-2008, 05:56 PM
McClain wrote that piece ?! You gotta be kidding me .... For once he wrote something that makes sense ?! .... I'd still like McClain fired for doing such a crappy job and holding VY's sausage way too much.


I remember when Fisher took over , he did look to be in over his head , as has Kubiak on many an occasion .... Fisher is now one of the best in the game .... I'm ok with giving Kubiak more time to sink or swim .... as long as he is learning from his mistakes rather than repeating them.

(I know I know , HWWNBM & Schaub)

Ckw
09-26-2008, 06:58 PM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/6023629.html

Great article. Rep!:goodpost:

hollywood_texan
09-26-2008, 07:18 PM
How many coaches that start out of the box 14-20 end up like Fischer? Probably not many.

This comparison at this point is meaningless because I could probably find more guys that failed after this point (starting out 14-20) than succeeded.

Time will tell, but please spare these type of comparisons.

This comparison is like Hulk75 comparing Carr's Texans career to Plunkett's first stage in his NFL career.

Texecutioner
09-26-2008, 07:29 PM
How many coaches that start out of the box 14-20 end up like Fischer? Probably not many.

This comparison at this point is meaningless because I could probably find more guys that failed after this point (starting out 14-20) than succeeded.

Time will tell, but please spare these type of comparisons.

This comparison is like Hulk75 comparing Carr's Texans career to Plunkett's first stage in his NFL career.

Exactly, their have been a hell of a lot more coaches that failed miserably around this point and record number than ones that had careers like Fisher.

Ckw
09-26-2008, 07:37 PM
Exactly, their have been a hell of a lot more coaches that failed miserably around this point and record number than ones that had careers like Fisher.

Yeah but when you combine that with the "success" Kubiak has had with taking us from a crap 2-14 team to a 7-9 team to an 8-8 team he is showing signs that he is a good coach. Do we know FOR CERTAIN that he is? No of course not. But he is still a "rookie" head coach in that he has always been an assistant. Now he is having to learn what it takes to be a head coach and the kinds of decisions that need to be made. He is experiencing some growing pains. Time will tell.

Texecutioner
09-26-2008, 07:45 PM
Yeah but when you combine that with the "success" Kubiak has had with taking us from a crap 2-14 team to a 7-9 team to an 8-8 team he is showing signs that he is a good coach. Do we know FOR CERTAIN that he is? No of course not. But he is still a "rookie" head coach in that he has always been an assistant. Now he is having to learn what it takes to be a head coach and the kinds of decisions that need to be made. He is experiencing some growing pains. Time will tell.

Agreed. Hopefully he gets it together.

alphajoker
09-26-2008, 09:27 PM
Yeah but when you combine that with the "success" Kubiak has had with taking us from a crap 2-14 team to a 6-10 team to an 8-8 team he is showing signs that he is a good coach. Do we know FOR CERTAIN that he is? No of course not. But he is still a "rookie" head coach in that he has always been an assistant. Now he is having to learn what it takes to be a head coach and the kinds of decisions that need to be made. He is experiencing some growing pains. Time will tell.

Fixed it for ya!

ArlingtonTexan
09-26-2008, 10:22 PM
How many coaches that start out of the box 14-20 end up like Fischer? Probably not many.

This comparison at this point is meaningless because I could probably find more guys that failed after this point (starting out 14-20) than succeeded.

Time will tell, but please spare these type of comparisons.

This comparison is like Hulk75 comparing Carr's Texans career to Plunkett's first stage in his NFL career.

I am convinced that fischer is overrated. He has an overall record a little over .500 and has made only one superbowl. His best years are when Steve mcNair was a top 10 QB. 2007 was the only year when he did not have a quality QB that he took a team to the playoffs. His bottom line (wins, losses, playoff, superbowls)is not as good as his reputation.

A coach that has been when an organization for as long as fischer should not been working with inferior talent. he should either have direct personnel say or have people in place who understand what he wants. If he Is working with less talent that one is him at this point.

Norg
09-26-2008, 10:31 PM
Kubiak isnt going anywhere but if we keep losing games people will be calling for players and staff heads and thats a guranteed fact

hollywood_texan
09-26-2008, 10:32 PM
I am convinced that fischer is overrated. He has an overall record a little over .500 and has made only one superbowl. His best years are when Steve mcNair was a top 10 QB. 2007 was the only year when he did not have a quality QB that he took a team to the playoffs. His bottom line (wins, losses, playoff, superbowls)is not as good as his reputation.

A coach that has been when an organization for as long as fischer should not been working with inferior talent. he should either have direct personnel say or have people in place who understand what he wants. If he Is working with less talent that one is him at this point.

Maybe so, but you should tranch his overall record. Meaning don't hold the first 3 season against him because the team was completely rebuilding and planning to leave town.

Recently as few years ago, the team was completely gutted and now they are very competitive. Add in being in the same division as the Colts, and also competing against the Charges and Patriots, it's been a tough road for every team in the AFC. Maybe in the NFC, the Titans would have been a lot better record wise.

Not arguing your wrong, just providing some perspective on your analysis. Maybe your right...

mussop
09-26-2008, 10:57 PM
Bob McNair has repeatedly said how much he admires the stability in the Steelers organization.


So youre saying hes going to hire Cower?:smiliedance:

GP
09-27-2008, 01:20 PM
Oh, OK. I will shut up now.

Or, I can think for myself and see that Fisher is a better HC than Kubiak. Comparing them to each other, based on them having (GASP!) the same record at the same point in their respective careers is complete horse hockey.

Here's an interesting factoid: 911 is used to dial an operator and report an emergency. And, did you know that a MAJOR emergency happened on 9-11 in America? Wow! Now, I'd say that we need to analyze this and we'd clearly see that the two are connected.

Kubiak DOESN'T learn from his mistakes, a point nobody is mentioning. We still do the same things: Try the same plays at the same down & distance situations that we always do ; Make virtually no "real" half-time adjustments ; Virtually never use the TE in each game...and by the time we DO use the TE, it's too late to make an impact in the game--When the TE should be used all game long, to loosen up the LBs ; And we still stick with an ineffective QB because of what?

How many of you sit there, when the ball is about to be snapped, and you can guess with about 90% accuracy if we are running or passing? We are not a sneaky ninja, that's for sure. If us fans can see it, how much more can an opponent's d-coordinator see it?

I'm still watching Texans football, but I don't think Kubiak is the guy. Like I have been saying: He's a guy who stopped the bleeding, re-built a better "core" than what we had. But get us over the top? Pretty unlikely. Could happen, and it would mean we are winning and that'd be fine by me.

But my position stands: Kubiak is stubborn and isn't learning from the mistakes. Here's a BIG clue that he's not: He said, at the end of last year, that he'd probably think "real hard" about carrying three QBs on the roster because he said he didn't want to risk carrying two anymore. Well, he hasn't. Schaub is a ding away from being on the bench, and that leaves Sage and Owen Daniels if something happened to Sage in a game. That might be minor to most people here, but it's like Kubiak shows signs of "getting it" and then it drifts away. Which, I think points to the coach-speak issue that he has. Kubiak would make an excellent college coach with how well he phrases his pressers, etc.

utahmark
09-27-2008, 02:25 PM
Exactly, their have been a hell of a lot more coaches that failed miserably around this point and record number than ones that had careers like Fisher.

your right. but thats not the point. the point is its to early to tell. so we should stop complaining and making irational statements untill we give the guy time to accomplish what he's trying to do.

KEYE SUX
09-27-2008, 02:40 PM
your right. but thats not the point. the point is its to early to tell. so stop complaining and making irational statements untill we give the guy time to accomplish what he's trying to do.

How long do you suggest we give him? Maybe Carr "just needed more time?" Or maybe Casserly? Or Capers? Look. The truth of the matter is that when you are losing questions will be raised about your effectiveness. It does not matter whether it is season 3 or 30; whether you are a "rookie" head coach or have won Super Bowls. If the Texans can ramble off some wins then it will be back to sunshine lollipops and rainbows. If they continue to lose people will want heads to roll.

Thorn
09-27-2008, 02:41 PM
I'm just glad we have pro football in Houston. While we ain't the best in the league, we also aren't the worst. And I've seen worse in Houston pro football long before the Texans arrived.

ATXtexanfan
09-27-2008, 04:55 PM
fisher is overrated

Thorn
09-27-2008, 05:06 PM
fisher is overrated

No he's not. Does't mean we still can't beat their ass, but Firsher is not over rated. He's a damn good coach.

ATXtexanfan
09-27-2008, 05:36 PM
wasn't the music city miracle the year he made the bowl? take that away and what has he done.

Buffi2
09-27-2008, 05:38 PM
I'm just glad we have pro football in Houston. While we ain't the best in the league, we also aren't the worst. And I've seen worse in Houston pro football long before the Texans arrived.

I'll drink to that! :toast2:

Thorn
09-27-2008, 05:43 PM
wasn't the music city miracle the year he made the bowl? take that away and what has he done.

He went to the Super Bowl. He lost, but he went. We haven't been there yet.

ATXtexanfan
09-27-2008, 06:15 PM
i guess when he retires he'll live across the street from marino. barry switzer has a ring and he didn't coach half as long as fisher. i guess he's a better coach?

Thorn
09-27-2008, 06:17 PM
i guess when he retires he'll live across the street from marino. barry switzer has a ring and he didn't coach half as long as fisher. i guess he's a better coach?

fishers a good coach. I'm hoping Kubiac turns out to be a better one.

ATXtexanfan
09-27-2008, 06:17 PM
dam thorn, i remember us posting as newbies when we first started and your running circles around me on rep.

ATXtexanfan
09-27-2008, 06:18 PM
fishers a good coach. I'm hoping Kubiac turns out to be a better one.

hopefully he and schaub will have time to grow together

Thorn
09-27-2008, 06:19 PM
dam thorn, i remember us posting as newbies when we first started and your running circles around me on rep.

post in the politics section. Those that agree with you give you rep. LOL

Other than that, I just drink and watch the NFL on TV. It hasn't been that good the first couple of weeks.

ATXtexanfan
09-27-2008, 06:35 PM
post in the politics section. Those that agree with you give you rep. LOL

Other than that, I just drink and watch the NFL on TV. It hasn't been that good the first couple of weeks.

yeah, i've gotten pretty thrashed the past few sundays. i think this weekend will be different.

Thorn
09-27-2008, 06:42 PM
yeah, i've gotten pretty thrashed the past few sundays. i think this weekend will be different.


It's the internet. Get drunk and post. Or, stay sober and actually try to debate folks on their points. Both are good, both will bring you new things.

In the end, it's a football BBS and we are all Homers for the Texans. If not, we probably wouldn't be spending time here.

The Jacks are going down Sunday! :whip: