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beerlover
09-25-2008, 01:28 PM
yeah I know its early but it seems fitting to start looking around the nation for possible upgrades once again. I don't focus too much on who they have Houston selecting more on where players are rated & I think this one does a very good job of placement or pecking order so to speak. you can check it for weekly updates as well-

http://walterfootball.com/draft2009.php

Houston Texans: Myron Rolle, S, Florida State
Basically the Best Player Available formula for a team really hurting for defense. It's not like safety isn't a need, anyway. Poor Texans fans had to watch Ben Roethlisberger and Kerry Collins dissect their stop unit to exact precision this season.

TexansSeminole
09-25-2008, 02:25 PM
Obviously, I am a big FSU fan, but this guy has Myron too high. Myron was the number 1 overall recruit a few years ago, Percy Harvin was number 2, but he has never lived up to the hype. Granted he has been solid, but not a playmaker. Maybe this year will be different, but thus far I haven't seen him make many big plays. He has improved every year. Number 9 would be WAY too high. He is MAYBE a first rounder, and that's a big maybe.

Myron is a fantastic student. He is very smart and Mickey Andrews always talks about his preparation and how good it is.

I watch Myron, Tony Carter, and Everette Brown on defense practically the whole time. During the WF game Myron repeatedly got beat by their TE, luckily Skinner missed on most of the throws.

We'll see how the remainder of the season goes, but I don't think he should be a first rounder.

I've also heard that he wants to go to Oxford, and could forgoe the NFL. He wants to be a road scholar, and he is actually well on his way.

kastofsna
09-25-2008, 06:00 PM
ya i'll be fine with Selvie

LonerATO
09-25-2008, 09:00 PM
I love Walters site

beerlover
09-26-2008, 01:23 AM
well just finished watching the OSU USC upset game & came away dissapointed with that trojan D, the offense not being to far behind.

first start with Rey Maualuga, his reaction time & reads are a step slow not to mention has a hard time locating a small target. Has all the measureables except plays out of control or not smart I don't know which in any case a top 5 pick is too high would much rather have Selvie.

second, Taylor Mays is a very impressive physical athlete as are most USC starters but is raw, unpolished & plays out of control don't know where his head is at either.

third, Brian Cushing seems more like a good fit in space for what the Texans need from the OLB position but I just didn't notice him much at all in the backfield something I need to see in order to sign off drafting him in the 1st rd. for the Houston Texans.

However, Clay Matthews did impress despite getting undercut by undersized Jacquizz Rodgers (ran for 186 yards and two touchdowns) has a natural abilty to live in the backfield decent speed & athletic ability but first & foremost smart. while not a first rd. talent Clay is the kind of player I was hoping for in Adibi. based on what I saw not to mention his pedigree I would grade him a solid 3rd/4th rd. pick. his football background is both impressive & exciting for his dad was Clay Mattews LB Cleveland Browns and Atlanta Falcons from 1978 to 1996. His brother, Kyle, lettered at safety on USC's 2003 national championship team & uncle Bruce, was a 3-year (1980-82) letterman offensive guard at USC who earned All-American honors in 1982 and then played with the Houston Oilers/Tennessee Titans from 1983 to 2001. His grandfather, Clay Sr., was on the football, wrestling and swimming teams at Georgia Tech in the 1940s and then played in the NFL with the San Francisco 49ers in the 1950s talk about lineage :play:

Sorry I got a little carried away :user: silly me you can keep scrolling down to also find rds. 2 & 3. no Clay Matthews.

mussop
09-26-2008, 02:31 AM
However, Clay Matthews did impress despite getting undercut by undersized Jacquizz Rodgers (ran for 186 yards and two touchdowns) has a natural abilty to live in the backfield decent speed & athletic ability but first & foremost smart. while not a first rd. talent Clay is the kind of player I was hoping for in Adibi. based on what I saw not to mention his pedigree I would grade him a solid 3rd/4th rd. pick. his football background is both impressive & exciting for his dad was Clay Mattews LB Cleveland Browns and Atlanta Falcons from 1978 to 1996. His brother, Kyle, lettered at safety on USC's 2003 national championship team & uncle Bruce, was a 3-year (1980-82) letterman offensive guard at USC who earned All-American honors in 1982 and then played with the Houston Oilers/Tennessee Titans from 1983 to 2001. His grandfather, Clay Sr., was on the football, wrestling and swimming teams at Georgia Tech in the 1940s and then played in the NFL with the San Francisco 49ers in the 1950s talk about lineage :play:

Sorry I got a little carried away :user: silly me you can keep scrolling down to also find rds. 2 & 3. no Clay Matthews.

Mathews really cought my eye also. Just wrote this on another board.
After watching USC get wooped by Oregan State I have officially put Clay Mathews on my watch list. For thise of you who dont know he is the son of former NFL (Cleveland Browns) linebacker Clay Mathews and nephew of Bruce Mathews former Houston Oilere Lineman. Clay Mathews Sr was one of the best to ever play. But that has nothing to do with why i'll be watching him. He was all over the field and made several big plays, even blocked a field goal.

beerlover
09-26-2008, 09:48 AM
Mathews really cought my eye also. Just wrote this on another board.
After watching USC get wooped by Oregan State I have officially put Clay Mathews on my watch list. For thise of you who dont know he is the son of former NFL (Cleveland Browns) linebacker Clay Mathews and nephew of Bruce Mathews former Houston Oilere Lineman. Clay Mathews Sr was one of the best to ever play. But that has nothing to do with why i'll be watching him. He was all over the field and made several big plays, even blocked a field goal.

NFL DRAFT SCOUT RISER: Matthews might have been overlooked coming into the season -- his NFLbloodlines are not as Bruce (uncle), Clay (grandfather) and Clay, Jr.(father) are former pros -- because scouts focused on his talented teammatesat linebacker. But Matthews' play in the opener -- six tackles, one sack, one forced fumble, two fumble recoveries at Virginia -- opened some eyes. As a stand-up pass rusher, Matthews constantly was in the face of Virginia QB Peter Lalich. He also securely tackled ball carriers in space and took on blocks. This could be the third Clay Matthews to suit up in the NFL. - Chad Reuter, NFLDraftScout.com, The SportsXchange

YoungTexanFan
09-26-2008, 11:35 AM
The knock on Maugula has always been his style of play, ie playing out of control at times. He goes "balls to the wall" if you will, but doesn't always read the play before reacting. That fault of his has been documented before unfortunately. Reminds me of Rey Lewis in that aspect as well as his entire game.

Cushing played a very good game yesterday. Beerlover, he should be able to get into the backfield a little more, as he did play DE last year I believe. He has the size and the experience at DE, but maybe he had an off-day, as did the entire team. It's something to watch for as we move along in the season. I still have both of those two USC LBs as first rounders, with out a doubt. Mathews however, caught my attention as well. I would like to watch him more before I project him. I would have like a little more girth, but he had an impressive game and has been playing well all year.

bah007
09-26-2008, 11:39 AM
Any update on Maualuga's knee?

It didn't look too serious but he never came back in the game...

hot pickle
09-27-2008, 02:19 AM
i wouldnt mind brandon spikes to play beside demeco.... he would defently bring an attitude to our D but only thing is character issues but atleast we would actually have a personality

TEXANRED
09-29-2008, 09:54 AM
Looking like this is going to be a good deep draft for DE's and LB's.

What do you guys think of Briam Orakpo, the DE out of Texas?

bah007
09-29-2008, 12:26 PM
Looking like this is going to be a good deep draft for DE's and LB's.

What do you guys think of Briam Orakpo, the DE out of Texas?

I've been high on him for about two years now.

He's always been a solid player, but the new defensive coordinator at Texas is really allowing him to showcase his talents.

Probably a 2nd round talent. Maybe higher by the end of the season...

Ole Miss Texan
09-29-2008, 01:00 PM
I think we'll have a top ten pick going into the draft unfortunately.

but Rick Smith will pull a great trade down netting us an additional 2nd round pick.

1st: OG Duke Robinson (Oklahoma)
2nd: DE Greg Middleton (Indiana)
2nd: SLB Brandon Spikes (Florida)
3rd: RB James Davis (Clemson)- doubtful he's available
4th: Free Safety

TEXANRED
09-29-2008, 01:47 PM
I think we'll have a top ten pick going into the draft unfortunately.

but Rick Smith will pull a great trade down netting us an additional 2nd round pick.

1st: OG Duke Robinson (Oklahoma)
2nd: DE Greg Middleton (Indiana)
2nd: SLB Brandon Spikes (Florida)
3rd: RB James Davis (Clemson)- doubtful he's available
4th: Free Safety

I agree with the trade down but I don't think OG will be our first pick. DE and then two OLB's. We will go guard in the 3rd and RB in the 4th.

But hey, I have only been wrong on every single draft selection so far in the last seven years so who knows what we will do.

painekiller
09-29-2008, 05:03 PM
I think we'll have a top ten pick going into the draft unfortunately.

but Rick Smith will pull a great trade down netting us an additional 2nd round pick.

1st: OG Duke Robinson (Oklahoma)
2nd: DE Greg Middleton (Indiana)
2nd: SLB Brandon Spikes (Florida)
3rd: RB James Davis (Clemson)- doubtful he's available
4th: Free Safety


I could ride with this one.

TEXANRED
09-29-2008, 05:24 PM
What about Kevin Matthews, Center out of A&M? I have not been able to stomach most of the Aggie games the last few years so I don't know much about him other than he comes from one hell of a blood line.

Does anyone know if he is a JR or a SR?

bah007
09-29-2008, 05:41 PM
What about Kevin Matthews, Center out of A&M? I have not been able to stomach most of the Aggie games the last few years so I don't know much about him other than he comes from one hell of a blood line.

Does anyone know if he is a JR or a SR?

He's probably the best o-lineman A&M has.....but that's not saying much.

painekiller
09-29-2008, 08:10 PM
What about Kevin Matthews, Center out of A&M? I have not been able to stomach most of the Aggie games the last few years so I don't know much about him other than he comes from one hell of a blood line.

Does anyone know if he is a JR or a SR?

Jr.

BSofA04
09-29-2008, 10:24 PM
ya i'll be fine with Selvie

Hell yes, but hopefully we're not picking that early.

I've had enough of our secondary as well, so William Moore would be option 1A.

beerlover
10-02-2008, 04:31 AM
Houston Texans: Myron Rolle, S, Florida State
Basically the Best Player Available formula for a team really hurting for defense. It's not like safety isn't a need, anyway. Poor Texans fans had to watch Ben Roethlisberger and Kerry Collins dissect their stop unit to exact precision this season.

I like the way they edit to stay current. their pick looks even better this week-

Basically the Best Player Available formula for a team really hurting for defense. It's not like safety isn't a need, anyway. Poor Texans fans had to watch Ben Roethlisberger, Kerry Collins and David Garrard dissect their stop unit to exact precision this season. Now, C.C. Brown is out for the year. Houston's defense is a mess.

next week they can add Peyton Manning to the list.

beerlover
11-12-2008, 09:09 AM
2009 DRAFT PROJECTION http://www.gbnreport.com/

November 12, 2008

*indicates undercalssman

1 Detroit *Sam Bradford QB Oklahoma
2 Kansas City *Matthew Stafford QB Georgia
3 Cincinnati *Michael Crabtree WR Texas Tech
4 San Francisco *Andre Smith OT Alabama
5 Oakland Malcolm Jenkins CB Ohio State
6 Seattle Michael Oher OT Mississippi
7 St. Louis *Vontae Davis CB Illinois
8 Houston Will Moore DB Missouri
9 Cleveland James Laurinaitis LB Ohio State
10 Green Bay Eugene Monroe OT Virginia
11 San Diego Aaron Curry LB Wake Forest
12 New Orleans Alphonso Smith CB Wake Forest
13 Jacksonville Rey Maualuga LB Southern California
14 Buffalo *Ciron Black OT LSU
15 Denver *Chris Wells RB Ohio State
16 Miami *Tim Tebow QB Florida
17 Chicago *Jeremy Maclin WR Missouri
18 Indianapolis *Sen'Derrick Marks DT Auburn
19 Minnesota Brian Orakpo DE Texas
20 Detroit (from Dallas) *George Selvie DE South Florida
21 Philadelphia *Taylor Mays FS Southern California
22 New York Jets *LeSean McCoy RB Pittsburgh
23 Tampa Bay *Percy Harvin WR Florida
24 Atlanta Michael Johnson DE Georgia Tech
25 New England *Knowshon Moreno RB Georgia
26 Washington Duke Robinson OG Oklahoma
27 Arizona Brian Cushing LB Southern California
28 Baltimore Mike Mickens CB Cincinnati
29 Pittsburgh Alex Mack C California
30 Philadelphia (from Carolina) Jason Smith OT Baylor
31 New York Giants *Brandon Spikes LB Florida
32 Tennessee B.J. Raji DT Boston College

bah007
11-12-2008, 09:36 AM
I don't think Moore is a top 10 talent.

Would much rather have Orakpo there or trade back and get Mays, Moore, or a DE later in the round.

TexansFan33
11-13-2008, 10:16 PM
I think we need to address our pass rush stuation if Michael Johnson(6-7, 270, 4.6 forty) is available then we need to take him he is a absolute FREAK OF NATURE him and mario togther would be an absolute nightmare. He can also be a linebacker. We can go about the free agency and pick up a few key free agents.

The1ApplePie
11-13-2008, 10:20 PM
I think we need to address our pass rush stuation if Michael Johnson(6-7, 270, 4.6 forty) is available then we need to take him he is a absolute FREAK OF NATURE him and mario togther would be an absolute nightmare. He can also be a linebacker. We can go about the free agency and pick up a few key free agents.

Michael Johnson has been a freak of nature that has never done a damn thing on the field.

Orakpo may be a bigger freak and is actually a football player. I'm not a Longhorns fan but I'd take the Rak any day

Wolf6151
11-14-2008, 12:24 AM
I think come draft day the Texans will pick around 5-7 and believe that if we don't get Orakpo (much better player than Michael Johnson) then we should trade down to the upper/mid 20's and take Alex Mack. We should be able to pick up an extra 2nd and 3rd round pick from the trade down and can then fill lots of our holes with good players.

threetoedpete
11-16-2008, 12:08 PM
ya i'll be fine with Selvie

George Selvie DE South Florida

The guy has great big huge hands....very long arms....and is a very articulate young man, A "Texans " player fur shure. But 255 is 255. He started out as a 215 pound center. His body growth has hit it's celling. If they draft him fine. But don't cry when he is getting rolled on rushing plays. Gonna have to have someone rotating with the guy.

threetoedpete
11-16-2008, 12:13 PM
Every time I see Mr. Moore he is bouncing off of a tackle. One thing our Dbs are supposed to be able to do is tackle. The Wr's and Rb's block and the DBs tackle.
That's the first thing. If they can't, you scratch them off our board.

PapaL
11-16-2008, 02:01 PM
Moore or Wells?

I'll take Beanie.

mussop
11-17-2008, 03:16 AM
I think come draft day the Texans will pick around 5-7 and believe that if we don't get Orakpo (much better player than Michael Johnson) then we should trade down to the upper/mid 20's and take Alex Mack. We should be able to pick up an extra 2nd and 3rd round pick from the trade down and can then fill lots of our holes with good players.

If we came out of the first round with Alex Mack and an extra 2nd I would be jumping for joy.

mussop
11-17-2008, 03:19 AM
Every time I see Mr. Moore he is bouncing off of a tackle. One thing our Dbs are supposed to be able to do is tackle. The Wr's and Rb's block and the DBs tackle.
That's the first thing. If they can't, you scratch them off our board.

Put me is the "Moore is overrated" group.

steelbtexan
11-17-2008, 12:22 PM
If we came out of the first round with Alex Mack and an extra 2nd I would be jumping for joy.

agreed

stingray
11-22-2008, 10:47 PM
yeah I know its early but it seems fitting to start looking around the nation for possible upgrades once again. I don't focus too much on who they have Houston selecting more on where players are rated & I think this one does a very good job of placement or pecking order so to speak. you can check it for weekly updates as well-

http://walterfootball.com/draft2009.php

Houston Texans: Myron Rolle, S, Florida State
Basically the Best Player Available formula for a team really hurting for defense. It's not like safety isn't a need, anyway. Poor Texans fans had to watch Ben Roethlisberger and Kerry Collins dissect their stop unit to exact precision this season.

He's a Rhodes Scholar now and will go to oxford to study next year. Might not enter the draft. Man, that is impressive. That should give him an advantage if he enters the draft. Teams want smart Players.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/breaking-news/story/783693.html

Corrosion
11-23-2008, 11:19 AM
He's a Rhodes Scholar now and will go to oxford to study next year. Might not enter the draft. Man, that is impressive. That should give him an advantage if he enters the draft. Teams want smart Players.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/breaking-news/story/783693.html

How long is he going to be out of football due to going to Oxford? .... Teams want smart players but being away from the game for an extended period of time takes its toll in many a way. Teams may be skeptical after a 2-3 year absense.

stingray
11-23-2008, 11:24 AM
How long is he going to be out of football due to going to Oxford? .... Teams want smart players but being away from the game for an extended period of time takes its toll in many a way. Teams may be skeptical after a 2-3 year absense.

I meant if he enters the draft next year and forgoes his scholarship. Yeah, you are correct, if he doesn't play for some years, than he will drop if he tries to comeback.

TexansSeminole
11-23-2008, 11:28 AM
I'd bet that Myron never plays in the NFL. He's studying stem cell research. There are other things besides playing football for him to be doing.

bah007
11-23-2008, 01:51 PM
I'd bet that Myron never plays in the NFL. He's studying stem cell research. There are other things besides playing football for him to be doing.

Agreed.

Sadly, there are more important things in life than football.

beerlover
12-04-2008, 10:24 PM
http://www.gbnreport.com/2009projection.html

1 Detroit Sam Bradford QB RSO Oklahoma

2 Cincinnati Michael Crabtree WR RSO Texas Tech

3T St. Louis Andre Smith OT JR Alabama

4T Kansas City Brian Orakpo DE SR Texas

5T Seattle Michael Oher OT SR Mississippi

6 Oakland Malcolm Jenkins CB SR Ohio State

7 San Francisco Matthew Stafford QB JR Georgia

8 San Diego Rey Maualuga LB SR Southern California

9 Jacksonville Jeremy Maclin WR RSO Missouri

10 Cleveland Chris Wells RB JR Ohio State

11 Green Bay Aaron Curry LB SR Wake Forest

12 Houston Will Moore FS SR Missouri

13 Buffalo Eugene Monroe OT SR Virginia

14 Chicago Vontae Davis CB JR Illinois

15 New Orleans Taylor Mays FS JR Southern California

16 Philadelphia Duke Robinson OG SR Oklahoma

17 Miami Terrence Cody DT JR Alabama

18 New England Knowshon Moreno RB RSO Georgia

19 Washington George Selvie DE JR South Florida

20 Denver James Laurinaitis LB SR Ohio State

21 Arizona Michael Johnson DE SR Georgia Tech

22 Minnesota Tim Tebow QB JR Florida

23 Detroit (from Dallas) Alphonso Smith CB SR Wake Forest

24 New York Jets Tyson Jackson DE SR LSU

25 Atlanta B.J. Raji DT SR Boston College

26 Indianapolis Sen'Derrick Marks DT JR Auburn

27 Baltimore D.J. Moore CB JR Vanderbilt

28 Tampa Bay Jermaine Gresham TE JR Oklahoma

29 Philadelphia (from Carolina) Darrius Heyward-Bey WR JR Maryland

30 Pittsburgh Jason Smith OT SR Baylor

31 Tennessee Greg Hardy DE JR Mississippi

32 New York Giants Brian Cushing LB SR Southern California

I like this early mock for the Texans both with selection (William Moore FS Missouri) & who will demand incoming trade offers (Eugene Monroe OT Virginia). For instance it would make sense for Detroit to use their 2nd pick of the 1st rd. (aquired from Cowboys for Roy Williams) with a 2nd rd. pick to move up for Monroe & provide protection for #1 overall pick Bradford. that would leave Houston with the 23rd overall selection & the 33rd overall pick. #12 pick = 1200 23rd =760 + 33rd =580 total = 1340 vs. 1200 which is made good (#80 = 190) with Philly, who covet TE Jermaine Gresham. hauling in another 2nd plus 3rd to hand back to Detroit (not Texans pick).

end result you can select Moore & be done with it or get more by trading down #29 (from Philadelphia) OLB Brian Cushing #33 (from Detroit)DE George Selvie #48 (from Philadephia) DT Jerry Peria. plus Texans keep their own 2nd Center Antoine Caldwell, Alabama & 3rd rd. pick RB James Davis, Clemson. not a bad haul if I must so myself.....replacement for Greenwood who has length & can cover, new starting DE with elite pass rushing skills, tough, pocket pushing DT next to Amobi, athletic/versatile O-lineman that can start @ Center or Guard killing two birds with one stone & power running back between the tackles to help balance the ground game.

bah007
12-04-2008, 10:28 PM
I will be very surprised if William Moore is chosen before Taylor Mays.

beerlover
12-05-2008, 12:15 AM
I will be very surprised if William Moore is chosen before Taylor Mays.

Have not watched Taylor Mays since USC Trojans got :whip: in Corvallis, has he improved his bone headed play? stupid penaltys, under-achieving natural talent. Texans don't need to draft based on potential they need to draft smart, dedicated football players who make consistant plays. his attitude or apptitude along with moral fiber & character are all reasons why he is not a top 10 lock. of course he has the Rose Bowl, all-star game, combine & personel workouts to change scouts minds.

bah007
12-05-2008, 01:48 AM
Have not watched Taylor Mays since USC Trojans got :whip: in Corvallis, has he improved his bone headed play? stupid penaltys, under-achieving natural talent. Texans don't need to draft based on potential they need to draft smart, dedicated football players who make consistant plays. his attitude or apptitude along with moral fiber & character are all reasons why he is not a top 10 lock. of course he has the Rose Bowl, all-star game, combine & personel workouts to change scouts minds.

I wasn't speaking about the Texans specifically, because I don't think we will go safety in round one.

Mays has played better as the season has progressed, but yes, he is still not playing up to the level he could/should be.

I think Moore is very overrated. Most of the CBs in this draft class wrap up on tackles better than he does.

threetoedpete
12-05-2008, 03:41 AM
I don't like Moore at all. He just doesn't tackle very well. I gotta feeling after the GMs and coaches watch the tapes he's going to fall off. One Phillip Buchanon was enough for me, thank you very much. Mays is such a physical guy they just might be tempted. I gotta feeling we're going with who we're going with because Kubes and Rick Smith want it that way. They aren't going to bust the cap with a saftey unless they believe he's the second coming of Dennis Smith.

If you can make six to seven figures bing an Einstein, why would you do to your body what NFL players have do to it ? Rolle just isn't smart, he's off the charts smart.

BigBull17
12-05-2008, 08:24 AM
I dont see us taking a FS in the first. We really need a playmaker OLB to go with Ryans and Adibi. I like Diles, but he should be our utility back up.

Dan B.
12-05-2008, 09:10 AM
How long is he going to be out of football due to going to Oxford? .... Teams want smart players but being away from the game for an extended period of time takes its toll in many a way. Teams may be skeptical after a 2-3 year absense.

There is the example of David Robinson though. I'm not saying that teams will take that risk, only that it may not be as big of a risk as feared. A guy with the right mentality is worth 1000 of a guy with the right time in the 40.

beerlover
12-05-2008, 02:41 PM
should have clarified the list somewhat but felt @ this time to many changes will occur & several names will move or down. But just check out these names, forget about where they are slotted or to what teams selects them for now, just look at that talent to draw from, starting with the 12th pick (still expect the Texans to win a couple more games which should put them back in the mid to late teens)

13 Buffalo Eugene Monroe OT SR Virginia
14 Chicago Vontae Davis CB JR Illinois
15 New Orleans Taylor Mays FS JR Southern California
16 Philadelphia Duke Robinson OG SR Oklahoma
17 Miami Terrence Cody DT JR Alabama
18 New England Knowshon Moreno RB RSO Georgia
19 Washington George Selvie DE JR South Florida
20 Denver James Laurinaitis LB SR Ohio State
21 Arizona Michael Johnson DE SR Georgia Tech
22 Minnesota Tim Tebow QB JR Florida
23 Detroit (from Dallas) Alphonso Smith CB SR Wake Forest
24 New York Jets Tyson Jackson DE SR LSU
25 Atlanta B.J. Raji DT SR Boston College
26 Indianapolis Sen'Derrick Marks DT JR Auburn
27 Baltimore D.J. Moore CB JR Vanderbilt
28 Tampa Bay Jermaine Gresham TE JR Oklahoma

this is why a trade down or two is such a viable option :cool:

b0ng
12-06-2008, 08:06 PM
For some reason, I just see Michael Johnson and Brian Orakpo being dinged for their size before the draft comes. A lot of people seem to forget about how good players perform on the field once the combine comes around.

Mari-OWNED!
12-07-2008, 02:39 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/Incubus77546/tebowtexan.jpg

It'll never happen, but hey I can dream can't I?

LonerATO
12-07-2008, 02:46 AM
I would like to trade down to get Mack or another o-line player if we cant get Orakpo or Mays. I would be happy with that since we could pick up Ellison, who jsut happens to be a freaking beast himself and will be 2-3 round talent. We would then have o-line and FS/SS with our first two picks

threetoedpete
12-07-2008, 04:01 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/Incubus77546/tebowtexan.jpg

It'll never happen, but hey I can dream can't I?

What makes you think Tebow isn't Vincet Young squared ? Looks like the same guy in a different covering to me....Remeber Troy "Tater tot" Smith and Ginn Jr. ? Easy throwing TDs when your guys are wide open. But doing what most QBs have to do in the NFL....hitting little windows on time and on target.... making reads and going through the progressions....
the load up and hop isn't going to work for little Timmy in the NFL.

beerlover
12-07-2008, 10:39 AM
its nonsense to think Tebow can't make an NFL roster with such a shortage around the league. a system in need of his services will trade up if they feel he is what it takes to run their offense especially with success of rookie QB class this year in the NFL. the Vikings wish he would be their QB could you imagine that backfield :photos:

TexansSeminole
12-07-2008, 11:15 AM
It's not that Tebow has no chance of being an NFL QB, just that it will take him awhile. 3 maybe 4 years I am thinking. We don't really have the luxury of taking a QB first or second round who is going to take 3, 4, or 5 years to come around.

We need impact players right now, specifically on defense.

steelbtexan
12-07-2008, 12:44 PM
It's not that Tebow has no chance of being an NFL QB, just that it will take him awhile. 3 maybe 4 years I am thinking. We don't really have the luxury of taking a QB first or second round who is going to take 3, 4, or 5 years to come around.

We need impact players right now, specifically on defense.

Agreed

beerlover
12-07-2008, 06:10 PM
not a sexy pick I know but Texans are playing themselves into an area of the draft you select the most productive impact player available ignoring their potential ceiling. just such a need player who is ready to contribute @ a position of need for the Texans is James Laurinaitis, Ohio State. he could swing outside or play inside plays smart, instinctive with a nose for the ball.

threetoedpete
12-08-2008, 12:20 AM
Watched the replay of the BYU New Mexico game from back in october....

What do you guys think of WAC RB Harvey Unga ( pronounced un ha) ? Not a fleet foot guy in terms of speed. But he has nifty feet, knows how to press a hole and...he has arms like six inch pipes. What was that guy the Oilers went into San Diego and won with Gifford Nielson subbing in a play off game...Micheal Moriority....Larry Moriority ? BYU spread.... but a guy that big unless he's a total feminine napkin..He ought to be pretty tough. Pacific rim guy.

RUNNING BACKS

The Cougars were in great shape at running back - until Manase Tonga was determined to be academically ineligible for the 2008 season. Still, they have enough talent and experience to more than get by, provided they stay clear of nagging injuries that hampered them last year.
Of course, the key returner is sophomore Harvey Unga, the 6-foot-tall, 243-pound conference offensive player of the year candidate who burst onto the scene in a big way in 2007, rushing for 1,227 yards and displaying a mixture of speed, power and shiftiness that made Cougar fans forget about Curtis Brown, the program's all-time leading rusher who graduated after the 2006 season.
Unga, who redshirted in 2006 due to a hip injury, not only had 13 touchdowns on 244 carries, but proved to be a capable receiver, too, making 44 catches for 655 yards and four TDs. The 1,227 rushing yards was a MWC record for a freshman and also a BYU freshman record.
With Tonga out of the lineup, look for senior Fui Vakapuna to re-emerge as a battering ram and a lead blocker for Unga. While battling a hand injury and tender ankles last year, Vakapuna still scored 11 touchdowns. He had 252 rushing yards on 73 carries. http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site297/2008/0730/20080730_031935_byuutahtn891_200.jpg

Goldensilence
12-08-2008, 12:44 AM
not a sexy pick I know but Texans are playing themselves into an area of the draft you select the most productive impact player available ignoring their potential ceiling. just such a need player who is ready to contribute @ a position of need for the Texans is James Laurinaitis, Ohio State. he could swing outside or play inside plays smart, instinctive with a nose for the ball.

Pretty much what I have been thinking as well. We're thankfully playing our way out of the boom or bust that can be the top ten and more towards the productive impact players. Would not be upset if we chose Laurinaitis. Not sold on Diles and we need a guy who can rev up the intensity on defense. Him or Duke Robinson are my picks.

painekiller
12-08-2008, 11:39 AM
Pretty much what I have been thinking as well. We're thankfully playing our way out of the boom or bust that can be the top ten and more towards the productive impact players. Would not be upset if we chose Laurinaitis. Not sold on Diles and we need a guy who can rev up the intensity on defense. Him or Duke Robinson are my picks.

This week we jump up one draft spot. We where 12, and this week we should be 13 if I figured out the wins and loses correctly last night.

kastofsna
12-08-2008, 11:59 AM
What makes you think Tebow isn't Vincet Young squared ? Looks like the same guy in a different covering to me....Remeber Troy "Tater tot" Smith and Ginn Jr. ? Easy throwing TDs when your guys are wide open. But doing what most QBs have to do in the NFL....hitting little windows on time and on target.... making reads and going through the progressions....
the load up and hop isn't going to work for little Timmy in the NFL.

not a very sound argument against Tebow, considering most NFL quarterbacks played for big schools that had very talented receivers

bottomline for QB's is that you want a guy who's smart and learns quickly and has all the physical tools. Tebow has all of that. he's poised. he's very athletic. Vince Young just had the physical tools, none of the mental capabilities, and clearly no maturity. Troy Smith was never really considered to be much of a prospect, which is why he went in the later rounds.

i think the two best comparisons with Tebow is Alex Smith and Steve McNair. we'll see whose career he more closely resembles

Ole Miss Texan
12-08-2008, 12:44 PM
I think a 1st round LB like Curry, Spikes, Laurinitis or Mauluga could make an awesome trio of LB's for us.

Adibi - Ryans - Curry !?

threetoedpete
12-08-2008, 01:15 PM
not a very sound argument against Tebow, considering most NFL quarterbacks played for big schools that had very talented receivers

bottom line for QB's is that you want a guy who's smart and learns quickly and has all the physical tools. Tebow has all of that. he's poised. he's very athletic. Vince Young just had the physical tools, none of the mental capabilities, and clearly no maturity. Troy Smith was never really considered to be much of a prospect, which is why he went in the later rounds.

i think the two best comparisons with Tebow is Alex Smith and Steve McNair. we'll see whose career he more closely resembles

No the common bonds between the three Young, Troy Smith and Tebow is all three were in college offenses which featured very athletic receivers which didn't require any of them to be highly accurate. Now what I know for a fact is that for two of them it hasn't worked yet. They have not made the transition to passing, not throwing or hurling the ball, but passing the ball in the NFL. Now, you may argue that Tebow may some how be different. Tebow may be different and be able to transition. But the analogy is not only apt. It is spot on.

There are old QBs and Bold QBs in the NFL. But there are no old bold QBs in the NFL. The common theme with all young running QBs in the NFL is they either become better passers or they get obsoleted. They all quit running after a while. Even Lord Farve. And the same will be true wth Tebow.
One thing to hit a guy running free in a zone. Quite another sticking a pass in a three inch square NFL window with two guys hanging all over your receiver on a fifteen yard out or a ten yard hitch. Makes a difference.

threetoedpete
12-08-2008, 01:32 PM
I think a 1st round LB like Curry, Spikes, Laurinitis or Mauluga could make an awesome trio of LB's for us.

Adibi - Ryans - Curry !?

the thing about Curry from my point of veiw, he's quick enough stout enough to cover all three spots. And so athletic....you have the option of leaving him on the field when a team goes to a up temp no huddle drill. With the win yesterday we're probably out of Brown , Orakpo range....unless they spend draft picks.

kastofsna
12-08-2008, 02:17 PM
No the common bonds between the three Young, Troy Smith and Tebow is all three were in college offenses which featured very athletic receivers which didn't require any of them to be highly accurate. Now what I know for a fact is that for two of them it hasn't worked yet. They have not made the transition to passing, not throwing or hurling the ball, but passing the ball in the NFL. Now, you may argue that Tebow may some how be different. Tebow may be different and be able to transition. But the analogy is not only apt. It is spot on.
they didn't have to be incredibly accurate, in the same sense that Adrian Peterson didn't have to make a ton of great cuts and fight off defenders in college because he had a great o-line in front of him. but he still did, and he was still great and was still a great prospect for the NFL. in other words, don't penalize a player for the other great players around him. as i said before, most NFL starters played on college teams with very talented receivers, and VERY few college QB's HAVE to throw the ball into a very tight window, so you shouldn't penalize the guys because they have wide-open receivers. if they're missing those wide open guys, then we have a problem

Tebow's issues aren't with accuracy and syncing up with receivers, it's with his mechanics, which are pretty lousy. worse than Vince Young's, that's for sure

beerlover
12-13-2008, 11:45 AM
one month away from knowing who is declaring to come out early for the 09 NFL draft so there could still be drastic cuts/additions but came across this Mock Draft http://www.nfldraftblitz.com/mockdrafts.htm & thought some of my fellow draft friends would start getting excited from a more realistic Mock.

- Hardy’s name is not as prevalent as Orakpo, Johnson and Selvie, but you’ll be hearing a lot about him in the upcoming months if he decides to declare. Hardy is a long, athletic DE who can get to the QB with the best of them. Houston desperately needs a counter pass rusher for Mario Williams

I like Hardy alot, but I think if he's the Texans target (DE) another trade down would be in order :texflag:

YoungTexanFan
12-13-2008, 04:45 PM
What makes you think Tebow isn't Vincet Young squared ? Looks like the same guy in a different covering to me....Remeber Troy "Tater tot" Smith and Ginn Jr. ? Easy throwing TDs when your guys are wide open. But doing what most QBs have to do in the NFL....hitting little windows on time and on target.... making reads and going through the progressions....
the load up and hop isn't going to work for little Timmy in the NFL.

What are you talking about? You are essentially just throwing out some random thoughts and none of it is making sense. Troy Smith didn't get much of a look in the NFL because he was simply too small. With Troy Smith, think Chase Daniel or Todd Reesing. That group is great college QBs who just didn't/don't have the measurables. Vince Young had a lot of leadership qualities and great size. He didn't have accuracy that extended past 15 yards and he didn't have very good arm strength. He throw a lot of wobbling balls. Vince Young was also a run first QB, and that running style was a finesse style. Vince avoided defenders on what essentially became stretch plays. That was a gimmick offense that hid all the decencies. Tebow has great arm strength and stays in the pocket well. His runs are mostly on designed run plays because of natural ability, and if you actually pay attention to his career thus far, you will see that his running has gone down. Tebow is developing as a QB and that has been apparent this year.

Tebow actually is pretty far from Vince Young as a prospect aside from size. Tebow runs up the middle when he does run, but he has developed his patience in the pocket. He steps into the throw well and finishes on his front foot. He has shown the ability to make the NFL throws 35 yards down the field. I don't actually think Harvin is that great of a NFL receiver right now due to his poor route running.

Tebow is a legit prospect.

Goatcheese
12-14-2008, 09:51 AM
one month away from knowing who is declaring to come out early for the 09 NFL draft so there could still be drastic cuts/additions but came across this Mock Draft http://www.nfldraftblitz.com/mockdrafts.htm & thought some of my fellow draft friends would start getting excited from a more realistic Mock.



I like Hardy alot, but I think if he's the Texans target (DE) another trade down would be in order :texflag:

Hardy has a lot of talent, but I don't know if he's worth the risk in the first round. He has injury and personal issues that raise big questions. I would probably go Raji in that situation. Strange that he isn't listed in the first round btw. :mcnugget:

If they trade down to the bottom of the first, as you suggest, I could see it being worth the risk.

beerlover
12-14-2008, 11:40 AM
Hardy has a lot of talent, but I don't know if he's worth the risk in the first round. He has injury and personal issues that raise big questions. I would probably go Raji in that situation. Strange that he isn't listed in the first round btw. :mcnugget:

If they trade down to the bottom of the first, as you suggest, I could see it being worth the risk.

interesting the national perception of Texans #1 need is DE not DT. you & others who understand internal dynamics a bit more feel a run plugger in the middle trumps the DE, either that or feel Raji is better value. I honestly don't know, thats what we're all about to find out over the next four months :)

awtysst
12-14-2008, 11:48 AM
interesting the national perception of Texans #1 need is DE not DT. you & others who understand internal dynamics a bit more feel a run plugger in the middle trumps the DE, either that or feel Raji is better value. I honestly don't know, thats what we're all about to find out over the next four months :)

As you know from my December Mock, I took DT first. I liked Raji in that role because I see him as a complete 4-3 DT. He is big enough to be a space eater, atheltic enough to collapse the pocket, and stout enough against the run. I also think he helps Okoye and Mario because if you need to constantly double team him, who will not get single coverage? If you put one man on Mario, he will get pressure. If you do the same to Okoye, he will get pressure. Even if we had a situational pass rusher opposite Mario like Bulman, he would benefit from a Raji type. In my mind, he can improve those positions, plus help our DBs. In my mind the bigger need is DT not DE.

b0ng
12-14-2008, 12:03 PM
Tebow actually is pretty far from Vince Young as a prospect aside from size. Tebow runs up the middle when he does run, but he has developed his patience in the pocket. He steps into the throw well and finishes on his front foot. He has shown the ability to make the NFL throws 35 yards down the field. I don't actually think Harvin is that great of a NFL receiver right now due to his poor route running.

Tebow is a legit prospect.

I read somewhere that somebody described Tebow as a left handed Jason White who can run. How far off would you think this is?

Goatcheese
12-14-2008, 12:11 PM
interesting the national perception of Texans #1 need is DE not DT. you & others who understand internal dynamics a bit more feel a run plugger in the middle trumps the DE, either that or feel Raji is better value. I honestly don't know, thats what we're all about to find out over the next four months :)

I would still put DE as the #1 need, but if there isn't value there when you pick, it's better to take another need position instead of reaching/gambling.

My view on the Texans needs: http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1067598&postcount=12

YoungTexanFan
12-14-2008, 01:55 PM
I read somewhere that somebody described Tebow as a left handed Jason White who can run. How far off would you think this is?

I think that is simply saying he has a loaded team and isn't an actual NFL QB. Also, it's not fair to any QB with legs to compare them to Jason "I just tore my knee for the 5th year in a row" White. I think Jason White and Tim Tebow are really far off as prospects. Tebow needs work on his mechanics, but I don't think they are any worse than VY.

beerlover
12-14-2008, 05:27 PM
As you know from my December Mock, I took DT first. I liked Raji in that role because I see him as a complete 4-3 DT. He is big enough to be a space eater, atheltic enough to collapse the pocket, and stout enough against the run. I also think he helps Okoye and Mario because if you need to constantly double team him, who will not get single coverage? If you put one man on Mario, he will get pressure. If you do the same to Okoye, he will get pressure. Even if we had a situational pass rusher opposite Mario like Bulman, he would benefit from a Raji type. In my mind, he can improve those positions, plus help our DBs. In my mind the bigger need is DT not DE.

Deljuan Robinson had a great game today. shows continued progress as PT increases & don't forget about Frank Okam. Texans had zero sacks against the Tacks which may work for now until VY returns then you need to match-up athleitic speed on speed. Hardy is a work in progress but his upside on this roster is tempting given divisional foes.

RipTraxx
12-14-2008, 08:06 PM
Someone might have answered this before but i pretty much stay on the tream threads.

Which running backs are in the Zone/ One cut system at their respective colleges?

threetoedpete
12-18-2008, 11:04 AM
Someone might have answered this before but i pretty much stay on the tream threads.

Which running backs are in the Zone/ One cut system at their respective colleges?

Might be simpler to say who is not....JMHO:

1. Beaner Wells is not. Power back for a power offense.
2.P.J. Hill IS, Marion Lucky and Bradon Ore are not.
3. Navy Kid is....Jorvorskie Lane is not. Big guys can do it. I disagree with McClain and others on that one.

Derrel Mack Utah Yep. Great size and has prety nice fourth gear for a big back. He can throw his head back and hit another gear.

4. Both Davis' Mike and James
5. Ian Johnson, is....although I'm scared of all the body shots his accumlated over the last three years.
6. Luke Lipincott perfect size. won't run away from anyone but he can hit a seam in a line quickly. Doctor's Son probably go to med school.

Want one on the cheap....Chase Daniels.

http://www.gbnreport.com/2009prospects.html

Again Just MHO.

threetoedpete
12-18-2008, 11:18 AM
What are you talking about? You are essentially just throwing out some random thoughts and none of it is making sense. Troy Smith didn't get much of a look in the NFL because he was simply too small. With Troy Smith, think Chase Daniel or Todd Reesing. That group is great college QBs who just didn't/don't have the measurables. Vince Young had a lot of leadership qualities and great size. He didn't have accuracy that extended past 15 yards and he didn't have very good arm strength. He throw a lot of wobbling balls. Vince Young was also a run first QB, and that running style was a finesse style. Vince avoided defenders on what essentially became stretch plays. That was a gimmick offense that hid all the decencies. Tebow has great arm strength and stays in the pocket well. His runs are mostly on designed run plays because of natural ability, and if you actually pay attention to his career thus far, you will see that his running has gone down. Tebow is developing as a QB and that has been apparent this year.

I'm tsalking about draft gurus equating hard ware with NFL mechanics and usually thse guys are justr plain dead wrong....Like you were with gaither.

Tebow actually is pretty far from Vince Young as a prospect aside from size. Tebow runs up the middle when he does run, but he has developed his patience in the pocket. He steps into the throw well and finishes on his front foot. He has shown the ability to make the NFL throws 35 yards down the field. I don't actually think Harvin is that great of a NFL receiver right now due to his poor route running.

Tebow is a legit prospect.

I'm talking about draft gurus equating hard ware and stats with NFL mechanics. And usually those guys are just plain dead wrong....Like you were with your estimate of Gaither. Just because the guy has numbers doesnt nessisarly mean his bad mechnics/bad attitute will tansition. Might but it's more than just a simple risk. You're rolling the dice. Tewbow is a running back palying Qb.

beerlover
12-18-2008, 11:28 AM
College teams use a spread with unlimited variations of zbs. West Virginia plays one of those variations, see Steve Slaton.

another program that translates well to zone is Oregon who really spread it out creating cut-back lanes for their running backs & downfiled linemen blocking assignments. they have a kid who could be this years sleeper, poor mans version of Steve Slaton named Jeremiah Johnson. similar size 5090 210 a little thicker lower body, can break tackles keeps leg drive to finish plays, has exceptional cut-back intincts, sees the lanes, willing blocker. have no idea where his draft grade winds up but I'd guess rounds 3-5.

mussop
12-18-2008, 11:51 AM
College teams use a spread with unlimited variations of zbs. West Virginia plays one of those variations, see Steve Slaton.

another program that translates well to zone is Oregon who really spread it out creating cut-back lanes for their running backs & downfiled linemen blocking assignments. they have a kid who could be this years sleeper, poor mans version of Steve Slaton named Jeremiah Johnson. similar size 5090 210 a little thicker lower body, can break tackles keeps leg drive to finish plays, has exceptional cut-back intincts, sees the lanes, willing blocker. have no idea where his draft grade winds up but I'd guess rounds 3-5.

I love this kid. Hes really explosive.

BigBull17
12-18-2008, 12:21 PM
Pretty much what I have been thinking as well. We're thankfully playing our way out of the boom or bust that can be the top ten and more towards the productive impact players. Would not be upset if we chose Laurinaitis. Not sold on Diles and we need a guy who can rev up the intensity on defense. Him or Duke Robinson are my picks.

It will also help get us some publicity. Get guys from super popular schools to bring in some of the fan base.

YoungTexanFan
12-18-2008, 02:08 PM
I'm talking about draft gurus equating hard ware and stats with NFL mechanics. And usually those guys are just plain dead wrong....Like you were with your estimate of Gaither. Just because the guy has numbers doesnt nessisarly mean his bad mechnics/bad attitute will tansition. Might but it's more than just a simple risk. You're rolling the dice. Tewbow is a running back palying Qb.

I'm going to address your comment about Gaither. If by "numbers" you mean production against some of the elite pass rushers in college at the time, then yes, he had all the numbers. If you mean the elite physical tools for an OT, then yes, he had the numbers as well. He screwed up off the field, and that couldn't be predicted. He had it made and lost it by his own doing, mostly because of stuff between the ears. As a prospect on the field, he was as good of an OT prospect as we've seen in a while.

BigBull17
12-18-2008, 02:26 PM
I'm going to address your comment about Gaither. If by "numbers" you mean production against some of the elite pass rushers in college at the time, then yes, he had all the numbers. If you mean the elite physical tools for an OT, then yes, he had the numbers as well. He screwed up off the field, and that couldn't be predicted. He had it made and lost it by his own doing, mostly because of stuff between the ears. As a prospect on the field, he was as good of an OT prospect as we've seen in a while.

Its hard to take a flyer on a guy when so much of the NFL is between the ears.

Ole Miss Texan
12-18-2008, 06:08 PM
Okay, depending on our DL/DT situation and what the staff thinks (happy with the player we have, their development- Deljuan, Okam, etc) or a new DC that uses our current DL a little different... let's assume BJ Raji isn't available or isn't the pick. I'm all for BPA and not taking just the next best player at position X. If it's a LB, S, CB, DT, DE, OG, etc... take him. With that said:

1st- FS/SS Taylor Mays- USC
With the addition of Mays, we've found our best safety. He's a big S that will stop the run and has the speed to cut off passes. If Wilson stays in as FS, Mays is our SS with backups of CC and Demps maybe Harrison, etc. In anycase Jacque Reeves needs help over top as do Dunta and Bennett, lord knows faggins does too.

2nd- SLB Clint Sintim- Virginia
Sintim is a good pass rusher that is suited for the 3-4 or is able to play SLB in the 4-3. This leaves us with starting LB's of WLB- Adibi, ProBowl MLB- Demeco and SLB- Sintim. Opposing offenses will have to account for possible blitzes from him, demeco, or dunta while the DL is coming at them too. This leaves Greenwood (if he's here) as a backup to Adibi, Bentley and Diles (rehabbing) backing up SLB and MLB.

3rd- C/OG Antoine Caldwell- Alabama or Max Unger- Oregon
A highly rated Center/Guard would be an excellent addition to the team. The enterior of our OL sure could use some help.

YoungTexanFan
12-18-2008, 06:39 PM
Its hard to take a flyer on a guy when so much of the NFL is between the ears.

I had been following him since he first stepped onto the field. His problems came the year he was drafted. He was an elite prospect when I was hyping him on this board. I will stand by that as I doubt you have any idea what is being referenced here.

BigBull17
12-18-2008, 10:35 PM
I had been following him since he first stepped onto the field. His problems came the year he was drafted. He was an elite prospect when I was hyping him on this board. I will stand by that as I doubt you have any idea what is being referenced here.

I'm just making a blanket statement about any guy with issues between the ears. It is hard to put the time, money, and draft pick if you aren't sure of his frame of mind or what will he do off and on the field. Who specifically are you talking about?

YoungTexanFan
12-18-2008, 10:48 PM
I'm just making a blanket statement about any guy with issues between the ears. It is hard to put the time, money, and draft pick if you aren't sure of his frame of mind or what will he do off and on the field. Who specifically are you talking about?

Jared Gaither from Maryland. He was an OT who shut everyone down. I had him rated higher than Joe Thomas. He was the perfect prospect until his off the field stuff that caused him to become a supplementary draft pick to the Ravens I believe. He was a top 3 OT prospect I've ever scouted.

steelbtexan
12-18-2008, 11:34 PM
He's talking about Gaither

The Ravens selected him in the 5th rd. of the sup. draft

He gave the Ravens a great return on a small investment IMO.

steelbtexan
12-18-2008, 11:56 PM
Unfortunately BM will not allow our team to take chances on these type of players.

It's our loss in my opinion

I really liked Gaither alot but knew we wouldn't get him.

To think that we weren't willing to take a chance on a potential franchise LT for the cost of a 2008 5th rd. pick & he could have gotten seasoning during the 2007 season.

It also would have eliminated the need to take D. Brown in the 1st rd.

It is McNairs unwillingness to take chances that has led us to 0 playoff games.

The Smithiak regime has done a great job considering the personel (drafting & FA) constraints that BM has given them. (Character issues are not allowed no matter how minor thy may have been or when they occured).

This would be fine if the rest of the NFL played the personel game the same way but they dont & we miss out on some great players.

Okam was our 5th rd. pick. (What a shame)