PDA

View Full Version : Kubes is the problem


brickman
09-25-2008, 08:09 AM
He's the man in charge and it all starts at the top. Bad decisions, poor game plans, and players that lack heart. I'm sorry, you may not agree, but he needs to go (it's just my opinion, so don't jump all over me). He has done very little to turn it around. We were embarassed by Pittsburgh and really made way too many mistakes against Tennessee. Let's face it .... even if we all hate it ..... we are the Titans B******s (especialy Haynesworth). But at least we have squeaky clean players .... we'd be going to the Super Bowl every year if we played in the Choir league instead of the NFL. We need some spark and that starts at the top with a coach who's got some balls.
Look at when Slayton got buried after the whistle blew and Walters (a wide receiver) was the only one to come over, shove somebody and let them know that he's not going to stand for it. It's called toughness and you don't need thugs for that, you just need character (guts). Our big, tough linemen did nothing but watch. Way to support your teammates. They talk the talk, but they sure are not walking the walk. This team needs a shakeup, and unless it starts at the top, it isn't going to get any better. Great teams have a swagger ... this team doesn't even have a shimmy shake.

BattleRedToro
09-25-2008, 08:13 AM
I have to agree with you about the lack of swagger.

The question that follows is who would you like to see as the Head Coach then?

Marty Schottenheimer?

brickman
09-25-2008, 08:17 AM
I have to agree with you about the lack of swagger.

The question that follows is who would you like to see as the Head Coach then?

Marty Schottenheimer?



At least Marty's teams won. But to answer your question, how about Bill Cowher. The owner has got the $$$$$, use it where you can spend it without any restrictions. This alone would improve the team tremendously.

Stemp
09-25-2008, 08:37 AM
We've played two games in the regular season and are coming off our best record in our short history. Talk about pre-mature.......geez

gtexan02
09-25-2008, 08:49 AM
what happened to the chicken little thread? This is a textbook example. Kubiak was our savior a year ago, now he's our main goat. Go figure

Polo
09-25-2008, 09:21 AM
The way Kubiak carries himself is not the problem. Kubiak has plenty "swag" about himself.

I listen to Kubiak get on the radio and take on callers who really bring it to him sometimes...He stands in there and takes the punches and never really falters....I think he has plenty confidence and I think it shows when he speaks and how he carries himself....

I don't think his veteran players have that in them though and I think that's the problem...The veterans don't have it so you're left with a bunch a bunch of young guys who still haven't figured everything out trying to lead the way...The older vets on the defense are below average as a whole..The young guys have talent...Where are the veterans flying around leading the mad charge? What good defense is lead by a bunch of young guys ?

We're young and our vets over their play uninspiring football. That's the problem. The entire team from the coaches on down need to do a better job at coming into the game pissed off from the first whistle blow.

HJam72
09-25-2008, 09:21 AM
2-14 to 8-8 in two years. It's not like we're losing to bad teams at home. We're losing to top ten teams on the road, albeit badly. There's a lot of things I like to see different, yes, but Cowher himself is an example of why you don't give up on head coaches as long as they aren't looking bad for a long time. The least we can do is wait until next offseason, and I believe our attitudes will be different about Kubiak by then. This team should look really good through mid-season, and finish well enough too. We've likely just played our two toughest games of the year, although that remains to be seen. Kubiak is not bungling things as bad as it looks right now. The worst part of all of this is that Schaub is looking more and more like a mistake. Not only is he looking like a career backup, but a worse one that the one we already had.

Texan_Bill
09-25-2008, 09:45 AM
2-14 to 8-8 in two years. It's not like we're losing to bad teams at home. We're losing to top ten teams on the road, albeit badly. There's a lot of things I like to see different, yes, but Cowher himself is an example of why you don't give up on head coaches as long as they aren't looking bad for a long time. The least we can do is wait until next offseason, and I believe our attitudes will be different about Kubiak by then. This team should look really good through mid-season, and finish well enough too. We've likely just played our two toughest games of the year, although that remains to be seen. Kubiak is not bungling things as bad as it looks right now. The worst part of all of this is that Schaub is looking more and more like a mistake. Not only is he looking like a career backup, but a worse one that the one we already had.

:goodpost:

Kaiser Toro
09-25-2008, 09:54 AM
Beat the Jags and Colts and this goes away. No more "just be competitive" BS in year 3.

nunusguy
09-25-2008, 10:04 AM
Beat the Jags and Colts and this goes away. No more "just be competitive" BS in year 3.
Or maybe win this years Super Bowl ? Honestly I'm only half-joking, because at this point I'm starting to feel like winning both those games is about as likely as winning the next SB.
This is on Kubiak. This is his QB. This is supposed to be his forte, evaluating talent and particular QB talent. This is the guy who spent time playing with and/or coaching Elway and Steve Young. Then there's also the matter about all of the cap resurces & high picks used on DLine personnel, the unit which is arguably the poorest performing component of any unit on either side of the ball. I mean yikes - still no pass rush !

HJam72
09-25-2008, 10:04 AM
Beat the Jags and Colts and this goes away. No more "just be competitive" BS in year 3.

That would be great, but, ironically, I have a feeling our first win might be against the Colts this year. That means an 0-3 start.

bckey
09-25-2008, 10:55 AM
Why do I keep seeing people say over and over that we were beaten by 2 top tier teams. The only time the Steelers looked good out of the 3 games they have played so far was against us. The Titans always play good defense and they seem to have the Texans number. They are 3-0 but I think Indy will reclaim the division eventually before the season is done.

Can you imagine if the Texans had to play the NFC east this year? Work would be unbearable with the number of Cryboy fans I have to work with on a daily basis.

This upcoming game in Jacksonville will be the game that makes or breaks the Texans this year. It is that critical. Lose and you come home to face Indy with the team in turmoil and fans upset and most likely start 0-4. Win and come home with some confidence to face Indy without Bob Sanders. Slaton left, Slaton right, Slaton up the middle. Dre deep.

Double Barrel
09-25-2008, 10:58 AM
2-14 to 8-8 in two years. It's not like we're losing to bad teams at home. We're losing to top ten teams on the road, albeit badly. There's a lot of things I like to see different, yes, but Cowher himself is an example of why you don't give up on head coaches as long as they aren't looking bad for a long time. The least we can do is wait until next offseason, and I believe our attitudes will be different about Kubiak by then. This team should look really good through mid-season, and finish well enough too. We've likely just played our two toughest games of the year, although that remains to be seen. Kubiak is not bungling things as bad as it looks right now. The worst part of all of this is that Schaub is looking more and more like a mistake. Not only is he looking like a career backup, but a worse one that the one we already had.

Straight up. 8-8 in his second season, our best record thus far, with lots of injuries to our best players...well, we have to have faith.

Yeah, I vent and rave in the first 48 hours after losing to the Titans, but that is a normal expression of disappointment born from passion for the team. It's the friggin' Titans for crying out loud!

But step away from the ledge for a second, folks. We've got 14 games left, and we have to believe that this team is even more disappointed in itself than we are as fans. They know this fanbase and city needs a winning football team. They understand the importance of the gut check and limiting their own self-defeating mistakes.

The Steelers, IMO, will be in the AFC Championship game if they do not suffer any serious injuries. They are one of the best teams in the AFC right now, so we have to just accept that we got our butts whooped.

Then Ike blows through and jacks with everyone's heads. Players are just as human as the rest of us, and we have to give them a bit of understanding as fellow Houstonians that focus in the face of disaster is not the easiest state to achieve. They could have beaten the Titans, but there were just some mental mistakes - from the QB, to AJ and KW, the HC and just blown assignments throughout the game.

So here we are, game three of the season, and we just have to believe that Kubiak & Co. will do what they've done before. Get this team ready to rebound from a disappointing loss and play some good football.

Besides, we know our owner. Kubiak has a minimum of four years as HC, even if this year tanks. Just accept that simple fact and hope for the best. But more important, enjoy the ride!

Loud, Proud, & Texan!! :texflag:

Texecutioner
09-25-2008, 11:01 AM
what happened to the chicken little thread? This is a textbook example. Kubiak was our savior a year ago, now he's our main goat. Go figure

Our savior? Ha. 8-8 is a savior. Talk about dream land.

Runner
09-25-2008, 11:02 AM
We've played two games in the regular season and are coming off our best record in our short history. Talk about pre-mature.......geez

This quote could have been posted after 2 games in 2005! :)

Texecutioner
09-25-2008, 11:18 AM
This quote could have been posted after 2 games in 2005! :)

It's unbelievable how people in here forget that.

utahmark
09-25-2008, 11:30 AM
This quote could have been posted after 2 games in 2005! :)

your right anytime we lose our first 2 games in the regular season we should get rid of our coaches, cause of what happened in 2005.

Texan_Bill
09-25-2008, 11:33 AM
It's unbelievable how people in here forget that.

I don't think people forget that, but at the same time its apples and oranges..

Norg
09-25-2008, 11:39 AM
i think mangment and the coaching plays a little part in the game

but when its all said and done the players and there ability is the deciding factor of a win and lose IMO

stingray
09-25-2008, 11:41 AM
Let's have this conversation after week 8.

Runner
09-25-2008, 11:42 AM
2-14 to 8-8 in two years.

7-9 to 8-8 in three years.

The majority of the problem going from 7-9 to 2-14 was coaching and coaching/front office politics. Joe Pendry and Victor Riley anyone?

There was some decent young talent on the team when Kubiak took over. It is likely that some of those could have developed into competent veterans by now. Instead, roster spots were used for the Flanagans, Salaams, and Greens of the league. To Kubiak's credit, they may have been the best way to improve for a couple of years. Now that those players aren't contributing though, the Texans have to fall back to much less experienced players.

Some of these young players that are playing now are at the same level of development as those that were cut when Kubiak came over. Had they kept some of them, they'd be middling vets right now and the Texans wouldn't have this constant gelling problem. However, as has become usual with the Texans, when a vet is done contributing the replacement is very raw.

Kubiak had to cut deep to clean up the team and implement his systems. However, in some cases he cut too deep.

Polo
09-25-2008, 11:44 AM
Kubiak had to cut deep to clean up the team and implement his systems. However, in some cases he cut too deep.

I agree...

infantrycak
09-25-2008, 11:46 AM
Kubiak had to cut deep to clean up the team and implement his systems. However, in some cases he cut too deep.

I agree...

Specific examples?

Wolf
09-25-2008, 11:52 AM
Straight up. 8-8 in his second season, our best record thus far, with lots of injuries to our best players...well, we have to have faith.

Yeah, I vent and rave in the first 48 hours after losing to the Titans, but that is a normal expression of disappointment born from passion for the team. It's the friggin' Titans for crying out loud!



Loud, Proud, & Texan!! :texflag:

I think that too with what happened last year with all the injuries and stuff, this season so far, with us being healthy ,to an extent, and with what we put on the field, I seem to fall into the talent of players has surpassed the talent of coaching ..now i am not saying we have talent to go to the superbowl, I am just looking at the way the team played with all the injuries and with what we are doing now and with all the talent that is not injured now

Runner
09-25-2008, 11:56 AM
I guess I haven't made myself clear on the fire Kubiak subject on any threads.

I DON'T think he should be fired.

However, I think his performance should be evaluated on more than an 'in Kubes we trust' basis. If the team has a poor record this year (6 wins or so), he should be on the hot seat next year. I think some of his staff should be considered on the hot seat now and be terminated this off-season if their units don't shape up.

No more excuses.

infantrycak
09-25-2008, 12:00 PM
If the team has a poor record this year (6 wins or so), he should be on the hot seat next year. I think some of his staff should be considered on the hot seat now and be terminated this off-season if their units don't shape up.

No more excuses.

That pretty much sums it up. The only reason I am interested in a possible mid-season swap at DC is we have an in-house guy to take over, that was reportedly favored by Kubiak to begin with. Heck we have Ray Rhodes as well.

Texecutioner
09-25-2008, 12:07 PM
I guess I haven't made myself clear on the fire Kubiak subject on any threads.

I DON'T think he should be fired.

However, I think his performance should be evaluated on more than an 'in Kubes we trust' basis. If the team has a poor record this year (6 wins or so), he should be on the hot seat next year. I think some of his staff should be considered on the hot seat now and be terminated this off-season if their units don't shape up.

No more excuses.

No way should Kubes be fired in the middle of the season. If the Texans only win 6 games though, he has to go. That is taking two steps back after taking one forward. That wouldn't even be staying a float. All we would be doing is pro longing another year after this of mediocraty if we kept a coach that is in his 3rd season and only won 6 games. You don't keep a guy around when the team regresses like that.

Polo
09-25-2008, 12:08 PM
Specific examples?

I don't see any reason Babin is not here.

Guess that's my only one...

Texecutioner
09-25-2008, 12:15 PM
I don't see any reason Babin is not here.

Guess that's my only one...

Babin was not a good player. He was also way over paid for what he was doing on the field. He was never an impact type of player at all. I was very happy to get rid of him and his salary.

Runner
09-25-2008, 12:16 PM
Specific examples?

I'm sure you can figure out one of my examples...

This may not have a direct cause and effect relationship, but Moulds/Gaffney.

Salaam/Wand. This was exacerbated when they didn't bring back Wand the day Spencer got hurt. They did pick up Jordan Black the next off-season though.

These are two players still in the league. Who knows how other cuts could have fared with some development. It's a crapshoot, and like I said, he did have to cut deep.

edo783
09-25-2008, 12:16 PM
I have been watching these threads and near as I can figure there are a bunch of folks on here that suffer from PE of the keyboard.

Polo
09-25-2008, 12:17 PM
I'm sure you can figure out one of my examples...

This may not have a direct cause and effect relationship, but Moulds/Gaffney.

Salaam/Wand. This was exacerbated when they didn't bring back Wand the day Spencer got hurt. They did pick up Jordan Black the next off-season though.

These are two players still in the league. Who knows how other cuts could have fared with some development. It's a crapshoot, and like I said, he did have to cut deep.


I forgot about Gaffney...
Wand as well...

BigBull17
09-25-2008, 12:24 PM
I forgot about Gaffney...
Wand as well...

Gaffney looked OK with Tom Brady in NE. Thats hardly a mark on how good he would be for us. MVP, or Carr/Schuab? Hmm, maybe the QB helpped a little...? And Wand was a stiff.

Why do I keep seeing people say over and over that we were beaten by 2 top tier teams. The only time the Steelers looked good out of the 3 games they have played so far was against us. The Titans always play good defense and they seem to have the Texans number. They are 3-0 but I think Indy will reclaim the division eventually before the season is done.

Can you imagine if the Texans had to play the NFC east this year? Work would be unbearable with the number of Cryboy fans I have to work with on a daily basis.

This upcoming game in Jacksonville will be the game that makes or breaks the Texans this year. It is that critical. Lose and you come home to face Indy with the team in turmoil and fans upset and most likely start 0-4. Win and come home with some confidence to face Indy without Bob Sanders. Slaton left, Slaton right, Slaton up the middle. Dre deep.

Not so fast, Dre's gotta catch em first.

Specnatz
09-25-2008, 12:28 PM
I am not sure how anyone here could have figured out that Gaffney was any good. Most of us blasted his route running and his hands. Most said good riddance when he left. The Moulds trade and subsequent new deal he got was a mistake, but that is hind sight.

I will give you Wand, mainly cause of the injury and then bringing in that waste of space Black.

Polo
09-25-2008, 12:31 PM
Gaffney looked OK with Tom Brady in NE. Thats hardly a mark on how good he would be for us. MVP, or Carr/Schuab? Hmm, maybe the QB helpped a little...? And Wand was a stiff.


Doesn't matter whether or not Brady helped him be more successful. Gaffney was still a vital part of that mix.

Pats had and still do have a lot of talented recievers. It wasn't like he was competing for a roster spot against scrubs.

And I don't know if Wand was any worse than Jordan Black.

Texecutioner
09-25-2008, 12:34 PM
Gaffney?? Sorry, but that just won't fly. He was never consistent. I remember Carr hitting him in stride when he wasn't even looking up for the ball. He needed to go. He didn't work hard over here, nor was he ever any stand out by any means. Had he still been here, he'd still be doing nothing.

Brady has made a ton of average WR's look a lot better than what they are. Plus, he was the 4th WR on their depth chart that was lucky to have the D's of other teams double up on Moss and look for Welker and Stallworth. That top NE offense made Gaffney look good. He didn't make the offense look any better. He just benefited from other WR's having to be watched like crazy.

infantrycak
09-25-2008, 12:38 PM
I don't see any reason Babin is not here.

Babin still seems to me best suited for what he was brought in for, a 3-4 OLB.

This may not have a direct cause and effect relationship, but Moulds/Gaffney.

I questioned getting rid of Gaffney, but would put the trade-off as Gaffney/Walter. We may have given up a viable player, but I don't see where we lost on the transaction. Moulds ended up a mistake.

Salaam/Wand. This was exacerbated when they didn't bring back Wand the day Spencer got hurt.

These are two players still in the league. Who knows how other cuts could have fared with some development.

Wand is a tough one. I thought Pendry was wrong to bench him. Development wise though, he worked with a good OL coach in TN and now after three years on two teams hasn't started a game. I can see why Kubiak wanted a vet swing tackle like Salaam. Hard to say Wand would have fared better than Salaam. Now I would have brought Wand in instead of Black.

Runner
09-25-2008, 01:14 PM
Wand is a tough one. I thought Pendry was wrong to bench him. Development wise though, he worked with a good OL coach in TN and now after three years on two teams hasn't started a game. I can see why Kubiak wanted a vet swing tackle like Salaam. Hard to say Wand would have fared better than Salaam. Now I would have brought Wand in instead of Black.

My point is that if Wand was even just the same as Salaam, he probably would have improved and he"d be in the prime of his career now. A middling prime could take some heat off of the rookie or allowed other holes to be filled. Remember, the coaches cut Wand the day after everyone else and in person rather than over the phone. They agonized over that the decision - it was close between him and Spencer.

After the Spencer injury they could have had Salaam and Wand. However they picked up someone else. I think it was Brad Bedell. This was a Former Green Bay vet past his prime who was supposed to provide depth at two positons. I can rephrase the example as Bedell/Wand. I'd have stuck with a left tackle project one more year over him.

I think the Munchak coaching was great for him at TN. That is a tough line-up to crack though. He's now with the Raiders; who knows how they operate.

I've heard situations like Wand's compared to being in a double elimination tournament. For the non-elite player, that first loss (cut) makes it hard to win. In the end, he's been in the league six years where a career average is closer to two. He offers depth if nothing else, and depth has always been in short supply for the Texans.

threetoedpete
09-25-2008, 01:55 PM
That pretty much sums it up. The only reason I am interested in a possible mid-season swap at DC is we have an in-house guy to take over, that was reportedly favored by Kubiak to begin with. Heck we have Ray Rhodes as well.

Agreed: whether it's Kubiak now or whomever down the road, eventually you have to dig in with one of these guys and let them finish a rebuild. If the roster had been better at the start you might have a point. Not you Cak, the whiners.

But the talent level was what it was when they got here. The only problem I see is people misjudging the talent on hand when they arrived. I'd be surprised if Ray Rhodes ups the anti with his heart condition. I don't think Bob McNair would allow it.

brickman
09-25-2008, 03:02 PM
The problem is that the standard has been set so low that people figure 8-8 is a good season. It's better than it was, but by now it should be better than it is. Here is what it comes down to ....... this is not a good football team. It's like we had a huge water leak that has been partially stopped, but water is still flowing in and we are trying to stay afloat instead of fixing the leak completely and striving for the top.

threetoedpete
09-25-2008, 03:15 PM
The problem is that the standard has been set so low that people figure 8-8 is a good season. It's better than it was, but by now it should be better than it is. Here is what it comes down to ....... this is not a good football team. It's like we had a huge water leak that has been partially stopped, but water is still flowing in and we are trying to stay afloat instead of fixing the leak completely and striving for the top.

Bad personnel moves...bad cap situations...bad draft class the first two years... all of this has added to the leaky Dyke. They've taken a wrecking ball to this roster. I don't know what else people expect them to do. "Just win Baby" works when you have some talent. When you don't it's "just survive until the next off season Baby". Next year Kubiak will be into the fourth year of a five year contract with an option for a sixth year. That's when Mr McNair will pay him off if there isn't significant progress. People deserve their rants now...but it's really pretty pointless. :chickendance:

Texecutioner
09-25-2008, 03:16 PM
The problem is that the standard has been set so low that people figure 8-8 is a good season. It's better than it was, but by now it should be better than it is. Here is what it comes down to ....... this is not a good football team. It's like we had a huge water leak that has been partially stopped, but water is still flowing in and we are trying to stay afloat instead of fixing the leak completely and striving for the top.

:goodpost:

Couldn't have said it better.


This line right here completely says it all.

The problem is that the standard has been set so low that people figure 8-8 is a good season

NBT
09-25-2008, 04:38 PM
As are most of your posts, that is just plain B.S.! No one, especially Kubiak is satisfied with 8-8. However, to give you your due devil, it seems that we try to add veterans, who cost a bundle, to help bring the team up to snuff, only to see them under achieve. i don't get it, but it better be fixed, and soon.

Texecutioner
09-25-2008, 04:46 PM
As are most of your posts, that is just plain B.S.! No one, especially Kubiak is satisfied with 8-8. However, to give you your due devil, it seems that we try to add veterans, who cost a bundle, to help bring the team up to snuff, only to see them under achieve. i don't get it, but it better be fixed, and soon.

I don't know if that was supposed to be to me or that other poster, but I'm trying hard to figure out what your logic is here.

You're saying that we try to add these high priced veterans to help out the team but they all under achieve. Well, genius who do you put that on???

infantrycak
09-25-2008, 04:54 PM
You're saying that we try to add these high priced veterans to help out the team but they all under achieve. Well, genius who do you put that on???

You know, FA acquisitions are always hit and miss. The top 4 FA WR's this past off-season who had contracts totaling close to $200 mil have a total of 8 receptions so far. I wouldn't assume all of those GM's were bad because they weren't psychic.

Double Barrel
09-25-2008, 05:04 PM
The problem is that the standard has been set so low that people figure 8-8 is a good season. It's better than it was, but by now it should be better than it is. Here is what it comes down to ....... this is not a good football team. It's like we had a huge water leak that has been partially stopped, but water is still flowing in and we are trying to stay afloat instead of fixing the leak completely and striving for the top.

I don't think people advocate that 8-8 is a "good season". It's just the best that this franchise has had in six seasons. Big difference in perspectives. I think most folks would agree that 8-8 is mediocre, at best.

Texecutioner
09-25-2008, 05:08 PM
You know, FA acquisitions are always hit and miss. The top 4 FA WR's this past off-season who had contracts totaling close to $200 mil have a total of 8 receptions so far. I wouldn't assume all of those GM's were bad because they weren't psychic.

I saw a list of those guys that you're referring to, and yeah all those GM's screwed up because none of those guys were worth near what they paid. I can't remember every one of them off that list, but lets see....

Bernard Berrian-All he ever was in Chicago was a deep threat and that was it. He wasn't consistent either. Minnesota needed WR's bad, but they gave him way to much money. I had no idea why he was ever a HOT NAME around the circuit.

Javon Walker- This guy was coming off of like two knee operations and hadn't had a great season since he was with the Packers. And look who the guy was to give him all of that money? Al stinkin Davis. When was the last time he did anything right? He's a total mess.

I can't remember the other two at the moment, but I saw that list like yesterday or the day before and each guy was over hyped and shouldn't have gotten near what they got in the first place. I don't think every FA is hit or miss. I think it all depends on the timing in which you bring them in to your team, how healthy they are, and how they fit in your scheme. Some that seem great just don't work out though like you say. I think that Rosevelt Colven would be a good example of that. I won't ever fault the Texans for bringing him in. He seemed like a guy that could really help us, but he just wasn't the same player he was last year after his injury.

Runner
09-25-2008, 05:18 PM
I don't think people advocate that 8-8 is a "good season". It's just the best that this franchise has had in six seasons. Big difference in perspectives. I think most folks would agree that 8-8 is mediocre, at best.

I'd go so far as to say 8-8 is the definition of mediocre. It is perfect mediocrity! :)

HJam72
09-25-2008, 05:32 PM
You mean 7-9 isn't mediocre? :mcnugget:

nunusguy
09-25-2008, 05:35 PM
I think the Munchak coaching was great for him at TN. That is a tough line-up to crack though. He's now with the Raiders; who knows how they operate.


Thanks for the update about Wand. I didn't even know whether or not he was still in the league ? But I'm glad he's still drawing a paycheck to support himself and family and build up a descent savings for his later years. As I recall he was a pretty tight-fisted young man with his money.
As we know Wand was athletically gifted but came from a very small school background and knew nothing of technique because of that background. So he'd be the type who might yet be a late-bloomer.

ChampionTexan
09-25-2008, 05:58 PM
I know that "If things happened in sports like they did in the real world..." examples are usually a bunch of crap, and this one may be too, but consider this.

You've been hired to turnaround a dept. of a major company that has suffered from it's creation with inept management. There are former employees that have been terminated due to cause, but because of legal reasons, they are still on the payroll. While you pretty much have full hiring and firing authority, you are on a budget, and those terminated folks still count against it. As time goes on, those terminated employees will begin dropping off the books, but you'll need to manage with both an eye towards bringing in top-notch folks, and not recreating the budget hell the previous management had gotten themselves into. Oh yeah - hiring in your field is incredibly competitive, between you and the other departments within your company virtually all of the folks quailified to work in your field already work for your company. You add college graduates to the workforce every year, but those folks are spread around the company evenly, and all departments will receive a relatively equal share of those folks. While folks in the other departments do periodically transfer within the company, your predecessors left your department with a reputation that will make it...let's just say challenging... to attract the best and the brightest. You do have excellent facilities, and your department is considered pretty employee friendly.

Your performance is pretty much based 100% on annual productivity as compared to the other depts in your company. As you can imagine, things are in a pretty sorry shape when you start, so the good news is the bar is pretty low. You've also been told you should focus on long-term productivity, not just a quick turnaround that will only result in temporary/unsustainable improvement. The first year, you pick the low-hanging fruit and triple productivity. While you've improved productivity by 200%, you are still in the bottom 30% on a company-wide basis. A clear cut improvement, but still a ways to go for that promotion. In year 2, you see a productivity jump of 33% from the previous year. While this isn't nearly the percentage increase of year one, only 40% (approximately) of the other departments have better productivity than you. You're still not where you want to be, but you feel good about the direction and progress of the first two years.

Year 3 rolls around, and while you are struggling to identify and correct the reason, productivity is down in a major way the first month and a half of the year. Through mid-February, everything that was a problem in the past still seems to be a problem, and some things that weren't problems before now are. For reasons your working to identify and fix, things seem to have reverted back to where they were before you got there. You recognize that there's still 10.5 months left in the year, and while you've made it tougher on yourself, you still have enough time to continue the upward movement you've started. There is some reason to believe that the first month and a half are far tougher months to produce in than most. Before you have a chance to finish February (much less the first quarter of the year), your boss calls you into his office, tells you that while your performance in the first two years were solid and encouraging, your 1+ month performance has convinced him that you're the problem, and in spite of the first two years performance, he's convinced that you are incapable of even re-creating the productivity you achieved in year two, much less improving on it.

How do you feel?

Yomaine
09-25-2008, 06:03 PM
8-8 is great, but that doesn't make Kubiak the great coach that everyone and McNair think he is.

Let we forget we were 7-9 with a bad line, no runningback and a quarterback that had gotten sacked the most of any quarterback in history. That was with capers, we should have been 8-8 but gave a the last game away to cleveland.

So are we better than we were then? Maybe in some aspects but overall? Thats a huge NO!

Runner
09-25-2008, 06:13 PM
You mean 7-9 isn't mediocre? :mcnugget:

7-9, 9-7: average mediocrity.

We should have a discussion on standard deviations and bell curves and such.

HJam72
09-25-2008, 06:13 PM
Just a general observation, but I believe we are younger now than then and still have a lot of room to improve. That 7-9 team was anchored by guys like Sharper, Foreman, and McKinney, who didn't have much time left. This team has FAR more potential.

infantrycak
09-25-2008, 06:54 PM
8-8 is great, but that doesn't make Kubiak the great coach that everyone and McNair think he is.

Let we forget we were 7-9 with a bad line, no runningback and a quarterback that had gotten sacked the most of any quarterback in history. That was with capers, we should have been 8-8 but gave a the last game away to cleveland.

So are we better than we were then? Maybe in some aspects but overall? Thats a huge NO!

First we had a RB at that point--without DD that team would have done squat.

I think people are upset with the results and not seeing the differences. My bet is this team could play that team and go 13-3. Doesn't mean our record will be better, but the division is a whole lot better now as a whole as well.

Hookem Horns
09-25-2008, 07:47 PM
I have to agree with you about the lack of swagger.

The question that follows is who would you like to see as the Head Coach then?

Marty Schottenheimer?

Steve Spagnolo

jdog
09-25-2008, 10:52 PM
I know that "If things happened in sports like they did in the real world..." examples are usually a bunch of crap, and this one may be too, but consider this.

You've been hired to turnaround a dept. of a major company that has suffered from it's creation with inept management. There are former employees that have been terminated due to cause, but because of legal reasons, they are still on the payroll. While you pretty much have full hiring and firing authority, you are on a budget, and those terminated folks still count against it. As time goes on, those terminated employees will begin dropping off the books, but you'll need to manage with both an eye towards bringing in top-notch folks, and not recreating the budget hell the previous management had gotten themselves into. Oh yeah - hiring in your field is incredibly competitive, between you and the other departments within your company virtually all of the folks quailified to work in your field already work for your company. You add college graduates to the workforce every year, but those folks are spread around the company evenly, and all departments will receive a relatively equal share of those folks. While folks in the other departments do periodically transfer within the company, your predecessors left your department with a reputation that will make it...let's just say challenging... to attract the best and the brightest. You do have excellent facilities, and your department is considered pretty employee friendly.

Your performance is pretty much based 100% on annual productivity as compared to the other depts in your company. As you can imagine, things are in a pretty sorry shape when you start, so the good news is the bar is pretty low. You've also been told you should focus on long-term productivity, not just a quick turnaround that will only result in temporary/unsustainable improvement. The first year, you pick the low-hanging fruit and triple productivity. While you've improved productivity by 200%, you are still in the bottom 30% on a company-wide basis. A clear cut improvement, but still a ways to go for that promotion. In year 2, you see a productivity jump of 33% from the previous year. While this isn't nearly the percentage increase of year one, only 40% (approximately) of the other departments have better productivity than you. You're still not where you want to be, but you feel good about the direction and progress of the first two years.

Year 3 rolls around, and while you are struggling to identify and correct the reason, productivity is down in a major way the first month and a half of the year. Through mid-February, everything that was a problem in the past still seems to be a problem, and some things that weren't problems before now are. For reasons your working to identify and fix, things seem to have reverted back to where they were before you got there. You recognize that there's still 10.5 months left in the year, and while you've made it tougher on yourself, you still have enough time to continue the upward movement you've started. There is some reason to believe that the first month and a half are far tougher months to produce in than most. Before you have a chance to finish February (much less the first quarter of the year), your boss calls you into his office, tells you that while your performance in the first two years were solid and encouraging, your 1+ month performance has convinced him that you're the problem, and in spite of the first two years performance, he's convinced that you are incapable of even re-creating the productivity you achieved in year two, much less improving on it.

How do you feel?

I hear you. Imagine you are the boss. You had the previous management team go through a period of continued improvement followed by a period of regression. Now, you see your new management team appearing to fall into the same pattern, and you feel the need to call them into your office for a chat now rather than waiting for the annual review.

There is a difference between saying Kubiak is the problem and firing Kubiak. Advocating firing Kubiak now is ignorant and insane. However, expressing to Kubiak that he is the man and he needs to identify the problem and resolve it, well, it seems fair and smart.

The similar trend that I see is in the comments about execution. When it becomes a matter of players not executing, it's because the coach is not lighting a fire under their asses and holding them accountable to the point that they have a healthy fear of ****ing up.

Of course, Kubiak can always respond with the belief that there is no problem, and then we would have a difference of opinion which would have to be resolved at the end of the season or perhaps midseason.

The problem that I see is not an 0-2 start to the season. It is playing badly. It is poor tackling. It is poor decision making by the quarterback. It is horrible results in the red zone. It is a culture of excuses. Saying, "it's no excuse, but..." is still an excuse. Many fans on this messageboard argue that we should have had no expectation of winning the last two games. We need to have an expectation of winning every game.

When we lose a game, the response should be, "they played better than us today." It should never be, "we were never going to win that game anyway". We need to ask ourselves why, specifically, did they beat us? Once we identify the reasons, we need to be serious about fixing them as if our lives depend on it. This means that we can't say, "we don't have the talent" or any other response that does not foster an immediate solution because in those cases, we are doomed. Believe in now!

ChampionTexan
09-26-2008, 12:30 AM
I hear you. Imagine you are the boss. You had the previous management team go through a period of continued improvement followed by a period of regression. Now, you see your new management team appearing to fall into the same pattern, and you feel the need to call them into your office for a chat now rather than waiting for the annual review.

There is a difference between saying Kubiak is the problem and firing Kubiak. Advocating firing Kubiak now is ignorant and insane. However, expressing to Kubiak that he is the man and he needs to identify the problem and resolve it, well, it seems fair and smart.

The similar trend that I see is in the comments about execution. When it becomes a matter of players not executing, it's because the coach is not lighting a fire under their asses and holding them accountable to the point that they have a healthy fear of ****ing up.

Of course, Kubiak can always respond with the belief that there is no problem, and then we would have a difference of opinion which would have to be resolved at the end of the season or perhaps midseason.

The problem that I see is not an 0-2 start to the season. It is playing badly. It is poor tackling. It is poor decision making by the quarterback. It is horrible results in the red zone. It is a culture of excuses. Saying, "it's no excuse, but..." is still an excuse. Many fans on this messageboard argue that we should have had no expectation of winning the last two games. We need to have an expectation of winning every game.

When we lose a game, the response should be, "they played better than us today." It should never be, "we were never going to win that game anyway". We need to ask ourselves why, specifically, did they beat us? Once we identify the reasons, we need to be serious about fixing them as if our lives depend on it. This means that we can't say, "we don't have the talent" or any other response that does not foster an immediate solution because in those cases, we are doomed. Believe in now!

I think we're pretty much on the same page here, and I'm not trying to defend Kubiak's or the teams performance in the first two games - in fact, the Titans game was probably one of the worst coached games I've ever seen, but I know professionally, I've had a few days like that myself. It doesn't change the body of work with one fell swoop.

In your words, "Advocating firing Kubiak now is ignorant and insane", and that in a nutshell was what I was saying. It was specifically in response to the original post in this thread. What we've seen in the first two games won't keep Kubiak his job past this year if it continues. But two games - however bad - don't cause you to forget what's been done over the previous two years.

jdog
09-26-2008, 12:46 AM
I think we're pretty much on the same page here, and I'm not trying to defend Kubiak's or the teams performance in the first two games - in fact, the Titans game was probably one of the worst coached games I've ever seen, but I know professionally, I've had a few days like that myself. It doesn't change the body of work with one fell swoop.

In your words, "Advocating firing Kubiak now is ignorant and insane", and that in a nutshell was what I was saying. It was specifically in response to the original post in this thread. What we've seen in the first two games won't keep Kubiak his job past this year if it continues. But two games - however bad - don't cause you to forget what's been done over the previous two years.

I agree. I think Kubiak is on his way toward being a great head coach. In the last two years, I can't think of too many things that I don't like about the job he's done. The problem he faces seems to be specific to our team as an expansion team, and at this point, maybe it is simply a matter of our team being a losing team historically.

The challenge for Kubiak is overcoming our culture of living with losing, and this is why I think the head coach must be considered the problem. Changing the culture and raising expectations starts at the top and must be based on consistent, passionate, and demanding leadership.

Second Honeymoon
09-26-2008, 12:48 AM
hope for the best and maybe the team can pull themselves together. if they don't, there will be plenty of time to criticize the team and leadership. I guess my point is that I don't want Cowher to be our coach in 2009 because that would mean that we had a horrible year and I am still holding out hope that wont be the case, but if we do indeed have a indisputably horrible year (4 or fewer wins), I want Cowher as HC in 2009. Does that make sense?

thoughts and prayers to those who were affected and/or still affected by Hurricane Ike.

HJam72
09-26-2008, 01:48 AM
Beware that, if we did get a proven coach like Cowher, there are many of us who would not put up with all the "fire the HC" threads and posts every time we lose a couple games. This statement not aimed at anyone in particular.

Now, fire Richard Smith! Where is that pink soap?

brickman
09-26-2008, 08:06 AM
Just a general observation, but I believe we are younger now than then and still have a lot of room to improve. That 7-9 team was anchored by guys like Sharper, Foreman, and McKinney, who didn't have much time left. This team has FAR more potential.


We have potential at the start of every season ..... the hell with potential ...... it's the nfl ...... what it comes down to is what did you achieve ... not what are you capable of doing.

HoustonFrog
09-26-2008, 08:33 AM
Beware that, if we did get a proven coach like Cowher, there are many of us who would not put up with all the "fire the HC" threads and posts every time we lose a couple games. This statement not aimed at anyone in particular.

Now, fire Richard Smith! Where is that pink soap?

I agree with you. I've become used to the weekly backup QB threads and Fire coaches threads. It becomes comical. There really are 31 other perfect QBs and coaches out there.:)

Second Honeymoon
09-26-2008, 08:33 AM
Beware that, if we did get a proven coach like Cowher, there are many of us who would not put up with all the "fire the HC" threads and posts every time we lose a couple games. This statement not aimed at anyone in particular.

Now, fire Richard Smith! Where is that pink soap?

I only wish it has been only a couple games we have lost. We have looked bad for some time now...oh, like since the first day of our team's existence.

If and when Cowher is brought in, I think everyone would show him more patience because he has proven he can do it. All Kubiak has proven is that he makes poor game time decisions, poor in-game adjustments, and poor talent evaluation. Cowher has shown a lot more than that so he deserves the benefit of the doubt more than Gary. I like Kubiak but I think he is over his head and isn't cut from the right cloth to be a successful NFL Head Coach.

GP
09-26-2008, 09:56 AM
The "Bench Schaub" idea has been generating merit since last season, and it's rolled over into this season with two pretty awful performances back-to-back. That's a move that needs to be made no later than halftime of the Jags game is he's getting clobbered or can't produce points in the red zone.

The Kubiak move should be made at the end of the season if we finish with six wins or less. I don't think anything less than 8-8 is acceptable. The idea is to keep growing, not to move backward and have 8-8 as your best season.

Kubiak has a better chance of turning the team around than Schaub has of making it as a legit starter. Schaub, in the end, might be the thing that makes or breaks Kubiak's career: If Kubiak wants to get stubborn and prove that Schaub is legit, despite the lack of production, then so be it. It's his career, I guess.

Just looks like the smart move, after all the "evaluation" of course, is to put Matt on the bench and try someone different. Heck, if Sage does awful...then Matt will probably find the inner fuel he needs to get back in there and prove he can do it. Being anointed as the starter is not good.

beerlover
09-26-2008, 09:58 AM
I only wish it has been only a couple games we have lost. We have looked bad for some time now...oh, like since the first day of our team's existence.

If and when Cowher is brought in, I think everyone would show him more patience because he has proven he can do it. All Kubiak has proven is that he makes poor game time decisions, poor in-game adjustments, and poor talent evaluation. Cowher has shown a lot more than that so he deserves the benefit of the doubt more than Gary. I like Kubiak but I think he is over his head and isn't cut from the right cloth to be a successful NFL Head Coach.

you raise some valid points. Garys biggest fault is loyalty to his players & staff that clouds his thought process. This is something he is going to have to work through if he wants to survive, he needs better support & infrastructure around him. I view Cowher more of a figure head who had a very expereinced staff around him basicly running the show for a sustained continuous amount of time which created that lunch pale work ethic culture.

Kubes needs to change the culture, if that means a new dc then so be it :specnatz:

Polo
09-26-2008, 10:06 AM
I'm pretty sure Cowher had some of these same complaints against him by their fan base when they lost games too...

Everything Cowher touched didn't turn to gold....I'm pretty sure he made some poor personnel decision, poor coaching decision and poor in game adjustments along the way too...So has every other coach....

I feel like our team has gotten better and has been injected with more talent since Kubiak has gotten here. Our record has gotten better each year despite having multiple injuries to not only starters, but stars...

I think all of this talk about firing Kubes and him needing to shape up or ship out are ludicrous and very pre-mature....JMO

Wolf
09-26-2008, 10:09 AM
besides Poor game managment, which I think a couch can learn from that with experience

I am not for the "fire Kubiak" Crowd yet... This team has changed alot, I looked at his first season as a evalutation of the team.. He had to see what Carr could do with the Texans giving him an extension.


Last season, you basically had a rookie QB at the helm and with all the injuries,it is tough to gauge


This is the first full season that we are healthy so far. so this IMO is the first real look at what Kubiak can or cannot do..(schaub in 2nd year in this offense).. now, If he doesn't get his game management improved, Schaub continues to struggle and Kubiak doesn't make a move, or even if this defense continues to play poorly and Kubiak doesnt' make any move in the offseason,then he will go down with the ship.



Right now I am disappointed with the way the team seems to be unprepared and out coached, esp after all the talk of "taking the next step" On a side note, Pitts game was pathetic, no excuse. Titans game , I will give them the benefit of the doubt that IKE was still on the players mind (even the Astros cooled off with that). I know they are all professionals but still there is the human factor of it when it comes to friends and family and trying to focus on work

HOU-TEX
09-26-2008, 10:10 AM
I only wish it has been only a couple games we have lost. We have looked bad for some time now...oh, like since the first day of our team's existence.

If and when Cowher is brought in, I think everyone would show him more patience because he has proven he can do it. All Kubiak has proven is that he makes poor game time decisions, poor in-game adjustments, and poor talent evaluation. Cowher has shown a lot more than that so he deserves the benefit of the doubt more than Gary. I like Kubiak but I think he is over his head and isn't cut from the right cloth to be a successful NFL Head Coach.

Dude, why would Cowher ever come here?? LOL @ you thinking it would that easy. You make it sound like he'd be on a plane heading towards Houston as soon as McNair snaps his fingers. It has been said if (big if) he were to come back it'd be to Carolina (I think).

He will be here the rest of this season and next season at a minimum.

"isn't cut from the right cloth to be a successful NFL Head Coach"

Well I'll be damned, where were you when McNair was interviewing coaches.

Bill Belichick - 1 winning season in his first 6 years.

Tony Dungy - 1 winning season in his first 3 years.

Jeff Fisher - Didn't get above .500 until his 5th season

Jimmy Johnson - 1 winning season in his first 3 years.

Tom Landry - 1 winning season in his first 7 years.

Chuck Noll - 1 winning season in his first 4 years.

Dick Vermeil - 1 winning season in his first 3 years.

Bill Walsh - 1 winning season in his first 3 years.

GP
09-26-2008, 10:10 AM
you raise some valid points. Garys biggest fault is loyalty to his players & staff that clouds his thought process. This is something he is going to have to work through if he wants to survive, he needs better support & infrastructure around him. I view Cowher more of a figure head who had a very expereinced staff around him basicly running the show for a sustained continuous amount of time which created that lunch pale work ethic culture.

Kubes needs to change the culture, if that means a new dc then so be it :specnatz:

BINGO.

Gary belonged to the Broncos for so long, that I think he thinks that's the way he's going to do things in Houston: Slow and steady wins the race, and be loyal to those under you (just as Shanahan was loyal to Kubiak for so long).

Cowher didn't mind having coaches on his staff who were good at what they did, who were rising in the ranks and making a name for themselves. Kubiak, to me, appears to be a guy who is afraid to surround himself with such people: He wants to be the smartest person in the room. Which, based on last Sunday's game management, is a scary thing.

I read an article on Shanny, Jr. He said when he first got to Houston, in the coach's meetings, he was blurting out what he thinks should be done on certain things. He said the other coaches stared a hole through him, smirked at him like he was stupid. Shanny Jr. said "I learned right there that I need to shut my mouth and just sit back and watch."

Uhh...watch what? Sherman botch the whole offense from top to bottom? Kubiak fail to make adjustments at halftime. Shanny Jr. protected his arse, which was smart smart smart. But that's the culture, it seems, with Gary: "I'm the brain. You're the limbs. Do what I say."

Our team seems so very American Corporate climate, which I think is a culture established by McNair and due to the inherent way he has of doing things. Appearances are everything. Nice facility, squeaky clean players, high profitability. I used to work in a place like that, right out of college, and I left it--There was no room for creativity and risk. None. This team reminds me of that place.

Polo
09-26-2008, 10:13 AM
Kubiak, to me, appears to be a guy who is afraid to surround himself with such people: He wants to be the smartest person in the room. Which, based on last Sunday's game management, is a scary thing.

This is a really ignorant statement.

Mike Sherman
Alex Gibbs
and Ray Rhodes would like to disagree with you

HOU-TEX
09-26-2008, 10:14 AM
This is a really ignorant statement.

Mike Sherman
Alex Gibbs
and Ray Rhodes would like to disagree with you

Does that surprise you, considering the source?

ChampionTexan
09-26-2008, 10:35 AM
Dude, why would Cowher ever come here?? LOL @ you thinking it would that easy. You make it sound like he'd be on a plane heading towards Houston as soon as McNair snaps his fingers. It has been said if (big if) he were to come back it'd be to Carolina (I think).

He will be here the rest of this season and next season at a minimum.



Well I'll be damned, where were you when McNair was interviewing coaches.

Bill Belichick - 1 winning season in his first 6 years.

Tony Dungy - 1 winning season in his first 3 years.

Jeff Fisher - Didn't get above .500 until his 5th season

Jimmy Johnson - 1 winning season in his first 3 years.

Tom Landry - 1 winning season in his first 7 years.

Chuck Noll - 1 winning season in his first 4 years.

Dick Vermeil - 1 winning season in his first 3 years.

Bill Walsh - 1 winning season in his first 3 years.

Throw in the fact that in two of Cowher's final four seasons in Pittsburgh, his record was 8-8(2006) and 6-10(2003). The other two were 15-1(2004) and 10-6 (2005 Super Bowl Championship season). Also, the 6-10 season was sandwiched by a 10-5-1 season, and the 15-1 season, so the point is even guys who are really really good coaches (which I wholeheartedly agree that Cowher is) have some pretty dismal years.

I don't know where Kubiak's ultimate Head Coaching legacy will end up, but I do know that this team made a determination after the 2005 season that he was the best guy to coach this team. I have seen reasons in the past for optimism, and I see reasons at this time for concern, but I see no reason whatsoever to definitively say Kubes is unable to do this job.

Wolf
09-26-2008, 10:38 AM
what was impressive with Pittsburgh is they would lose defensive guys and it was just plug and play over

when I thought they would drop by losing Chad Brown , they kept going, Joey Porter, they kept going.

HOU-TEX
09-26-2008, 10:41 AM
Throw in the fact that in two of Cowher's final four seasons in Pittsburgh, his record was 8-8(2006) and 6-10(2003). The other two were 15-1(2004) and 10-6 (2005 Super Bowl Championship season). Also, the 6-10 season was sandwiched by a 10-5-1 season, and the 15-1 season, so the point is even guys who are really really good coaches (which I wholeheartedly agree that Cowher is) have some pretty dismal years.

I don't know where Kubiak's ultimate Head Coaching legacy will end up, but I do know that this team made a determination after the 2005 season that he was the best guy to coach this team. I have seen reasons in the past for optimism, and I see reasons at this time for concern, but I see know reason whatsoever to definitively say Kubes is unable to do this job.

I agree.

I'm not saying Kubiak's going to be as successful as the coaches I listed, but I wanted to give SH examples of very good coaches that had slow starts in their careers.

Texan_Bill
09-26-2008, 10:43 AM
Dude, why would Cowher ever come here?? LOL @ you thinking it would that easy. You make it sound like he'd be on a plane heading towards Houston as soon as McNair snaps his fingers. It has been said if (big if) he were to come back it'd be to Carolina (I think).

He will be here the rest of this season and next season at a minimum.



Well I'll be damned, where were you when McNair was interviewing coaches.

Bill Belichick - 1 winning season in his first 6 years.

Tony Dungy - 1 winning season in his first 3 years.

Jeff Fisher - Didn't get above .500 until his 5th season

Jimmy Johnson - 1 winning season in his first 3 years.

Tom Landry - 1 winning season in his first 7 years.

Chuck Noll - 1 winning season in his first 4 years.

Dick Vermeil - 1 winning season in his first 3 years.

Bill Walsh - 1 winning season in his first 3 years.


Maybe Darrell K Royal or John Mackovic are available........ :rolleyes:

HOU-TEX
09-26-2008, 10:43 AM
what was impressive with Pittsburgh is they would lose defensive guys and it was just plug and play over

when I thought they would drop by losing Chad Brown , they kept going, Joey Porter, they kept going.

Dick LeBeau has had alot to do with the Steelers success.

Second Honeymoon
09-26-2008, 10:44 AM
if your happy with the product on the field, that is your prerogative. sometimes you have to **** or get off the pot. that is where I am at with Kubiak. if he can't turn it around this year, he deserves to be fired. period.

this isn't a popularity contest or charity function. this is NFL football and if you don't win and your team isn't competitive, you lose your job. kubiak's teams have not been winning and they have looked utterly pathetic. if you want another couple years of this garbage, fine. just don't expect me to sit by and make excuses for this pathetic product.

hadaad
09-26-2008, 10:45 AM
Throw in the fact that in two of Cowher's final four seasons in Pittsburgh, his record was 8-8(2006) and 6-10(2003). The other two were 15-1(2004) and 10-6 (2005 Super Bowl Championship season). Also, the 6-10 season was sandwiched by a 10-5-1 season, and the 15-1 season, so the point is even guys who are really really good coaches (which I wholeheartedly agree that Cowher is) have some pretty dismal years.

I don't know where Kubiak's ultimate Head Coaching legacy will end up, but I do know that this team made a determination after the 2005 season that he was the best guy to coach this team. I have seen reasons in the past for optimism, and I see reasons at this time for concern, but I see no reason whatsoever to definitively say Kubes is unable to do this job.

Come ON! This is the internet. That is not spoken as an absolute or a polarizing statement. Your argument is invalid because it's too realistic.

Wolf
09-26-2008, 10:46 AM
Maybe Darrell K Royal or John Mackovic are available........ :rolleyes:

heck if things get worse, there is always goldie
http://www.moviemaker.com/magazine/issues/51/images/t.Wildcats.Goldie.jpg

Wolf
09-26-2008, 10:48 AM
if your happy with the product on the field, that is your prerogative. sometimes you have to **** or get off the pot. that is where I am at with Kubiak. if he can't turn it around this year, he deserves to be fired. period.

this isn't a popularity contest or charity function. this is NFL football and if you don't win and your team isn't competitive, you lose your job. kubiak's teams have not been winning and they have looked utterly pathetic. if you want another couple years of this garbage, fine. just don't expect me to sit by and make excuses for this pathetic product.
I smell a third coming :mcnugget:

HOU-TEX
09-26-2008, 10:50 AM
heck if things get worse, there is always goldie
http://www.moviemaker.com/magazine/issues/51/images/t.Wildcats.Goldie.jpg

We could use Finch next to Okam to stop the run.

Texan_Bill
09-26-2008, 10:52 AM
heck if things get worse, there is always goldie
http://www.moviemaker.com/magazine/issues/51/images/t.Wildcats.Goldie.jpg

I'll see your Goldie Hawn and raise you a Coach Klein and 'Momma' Boucher:

http://images.hollywood.com/cms/300x375/5227806.jpg

ChampionTexan
09-26-2008, 10:53 AM
if your happy with the product on the field, that is your prerogative. sometimes you have to **** or get off the pot. that is where I am at with Kubiak. if he can't turn it around this year, he deserves to be fired. period.

this isn't a popularity contest or charity function. this is NFL football and if you don't win and your team isn't competitive, you lose your job. kubiak's teams have not been winning and they have looked utterly pathetic. if you want another couple years of this garbage, fine. just don't expect me to sit by and make excuses for this pathetic product.

So should I go play intramurals or something?
http://kotv.com/newsimages/640/a6990eb2-a118-4a81-9800-975e858f90d1.jpg

Texan_Bill
09-26-2008, 10:58 AM
So should I go play intramurals or something?
http://kotv.com/newsimages/640/a6990eb2-a118-4a81-9800-975e858f90d1.jpg
*ahem* :secret: Coach Gundy's rant was about his Quarterback and "I'm a man... I'm 40 years old........."


http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2008/0204/ncf_i_hawkins_inline_300.jpg


Dan Hawkins was the coach talking about "go play intramurals brother, go play intramurals"

ChampionTexan
09-26-2008, 11:03 AM
*ahem* :secret: Coach Gundy's rant was about his Quarterback and "I'm a man... I'm 40 years old........."


http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2008/0204/ncf_i_hawkins_inline_300.jpg


Dan Hawkins was the coach talking about "go play intramurals brother, go play intramurals"

Egad - how embarrassing. :redface:

HOU-TEX
09-26-2008, 11:05 AM
*ahem* :secret: Coach Gundy's rant was about his Quarterback and "I'm a man... I'm 40 years old........."


http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2008/0204/ncf_i_hawkins_inline_300.jpg


Dan Hawkins was the coach talking about "go play intramurals brother, go play intramurals"

Egad - how embarrassing. :redface:

Rome had a field day with those two. It was quite humerous to say the least.

Phenomenal!!

HJam72
09-26-2008, 11:15 AM
if your happy with the product on the field, that is your prerogative. sometimes you have to **** or get off the pot. that is where I am at with Kubiak. if he can't turn it around this year, he deserves to be fired. period.

this isn't a popularity contest or charity function. this is NFL football and if you don't win and your team isn't competitive, you lose your job. kubiak's teams have not been winning and they have looked utterly pathetic. if you want another couple years of this garbage, fine. just don't expect me to sit by and make excuses for this pathetic product.

How many wins do you consider turning it around?

Texan_Bill
09-26-2008, 11:17 AM
Rome had a field day with those two. It was quite humerous to say the least.

Phenomenal!!

When they play those clips, it still cracks me up....

OUT!

Second Honeymoon
09-26-2008, 11:35 AM
How many wins do you consider turning it around?

for me its not a question of the number of wins, its about the team showing a pulse at this point.

if i was to put a number of wins needed to be considered 'turning it around', I would go with 7 under the circumstances. That is playing .500 ball the rest of the year with 8 of the 14 being played at home. I don't think that is asking for much but once again, its not about the wins for me. its about seeing the team play with some emotion and intensity. if Kubiak can't enlicit that out of the talent assembled, we need to find someone who has already proven that he can build a winner and instill a true fighting spirit into a team....something Kubiak has failed to prove he can do.

Second Honeymoon
09-26-2008, 11:38 AM
When they play those clips, it still cracks me up....

OUT!

dont listen to as much Rome as I did in the old days, but enough to have heard the Leach stuff. Epic.

I am still trying to find some audio clip of his 'Corvette Guy' takes without having to pay a subscription. I have found his 'Softball Guy' takes but not 'Corvette Guy'.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMfqbR8Ujlk
CLICK HERE FOR SOFTBALL GUY (SAFE FOR WORK)

GP
09-26-2008, 12:46 PM
This is a really ignorant statement.

Mike Sherman
Alex Gibbs
and Ray Rhodes would like to disagree with you

You think Sherman was brought in, by Kubiak, to be a "go to" guy? Sherman was serving his obligatory 1-year-away-from-being-a-head-coach sentence that you have to serve if you want to be a HC again. it was a retirement home facility for the guy: Walking through the halls, sipping coffee, attend some meetings...you know, soaking up that Reliant Stadium feel-good complex that McNair uses to draw people in, cuz it's indicative of our winning history and tradition here. Side note: It'd be nice to play in a dump, have rats everywhere, and win playoff games all the time.

Gibbs might be a good example of someone being more gifted than Kubiak, but then again...his main emphasis is the running scheme.

Rhodes? I used to think that he was brought in to wait for the firing of Richard Smith, to get a handle on the defensive unit before taking it over. Now, with the reports that he was told to NOT be a DC again (due to health) then I can see him staying in his current role.

But come on guys, be serious: Do ANY of those three examples that Polo threw out...do anyone of them strike you as a seriously potential candidate to be Texans HC if Kubiak got fired? What "edge" to they offer that would make Kubiak look over his shoulder? None.

That's what I am saying. Kubiak, to me, isn't going to bring in a seriously-gifted coach who might also be able to be a HC. The great coaches don't have that sort of ego. They know that they win if their assistants are winning, and they know that they are going to lose those guys to bigger better jobs afterward. Theyhire guys who have aspirations of being HCs...because assistants with that mindset are going to produce in their role as assistant (to get the bump up).

Kubiak, in my view, has brought in sub-par people--This is a trademark for how he views running backs AND coaches (You don't need high-level people at either spot). Whether that's McNair being tight with the wallet, or due to Kubiak's fear of not being the superstar with no threats to the throne...I don't know. I just know that the hiring of Richard Smith as DC was curious when it was made, and it's even moreso now that we've had vanilla every Sunday.

If Kubiak would swallow his pride on some things, he might save his job.

Texan_Bill
09-26-2008, 12:55 PM
Kubiak, in my view, has brought in sub-par people--

Sorry Polo, the guys you mention are "sub-par" :rolleyes:

This is a really ignorant statement.

Mike Sherman
Alex Gibbs
and Ray Rhodes would like to disagree with you

Other respected coaches on this staff would also include Frank Bush and Joe Marciano.

infantrycak
09-26-2008, 01:02 PM
Other respected coaches on this staff would also include Frank Bush and Joe Marciano.

And John Hoke who has received plenty of job offers during his time with the Texans.

GP
09-26-2008, 01:09 PM
And John Hoke who has received plenty of job offers during his time with the Texans.

Marciano would be THE only real guy.

I posted on here, when Capers lost his job, that I wouldn't mind seeing Marciano as a HC candidate for us. People laughed me off it, saying he wasn't really a good coach; he was a rah-rah guy and good for ST but not for HC. Maybe so.

But I would definitely support a man who has HIS particular squad playing lights-out ball. He has the same talent pool that the offense and defense has access to. And he has them playing well almost every game.

Kubiak, in many ways, also did that sort of thing when he was in Denver. I'm just a fan of in-house coaches before you look elsewhere. I thought Joe would make a good HC here.

Texecutioner
09-26-2008, 01:38 PM
Dude, why would Cowher ever come here?? LOL @ you thinking it would that easy. You make it sound like he'd be on a plane heading towards Houston as soon as McNair snaps his fingers. It has been said if (big if) he were to come back it'd be to Carolina (I think).

As much as I would love to have Cowher here, You're probably right that it would most likely be a long shot for the Texans to land him. I'm not quite sure why so many fans in here think Cowher would jump at the chance to coach here. The funny thing is, if you go to any other team's message board just about every team's fans that don't have a good team right now are screaming for Cowher as well.

Cowher will be able to go pretty much wherever he wants to go. I do think that the Texans would have a good shot though. If you were a coach, who wouldn't want to work for Mcnair in a situation like this? Most likely, I think he would go to a place where he's getting paid TOP DOLLARS and a team that is really close to winning or already is and needs that right coach to get them over the hump instead of just the playoffs.

I heard something about Carolina as well. Do you or anyone else know why that is the most likely spot that he would like to coach when he comes back? IS that where he is from or something?

ChampionTexan
09-26-2008, 02:00 PM
As much as I would love to have Cowher here, You're probably right that it would most likely be a long shot for the Texans to land him. I'm not quite sure why so many fans in here think Cowher would jump at the chance to coach here. The funny thing is, if you go to any other team's message board just about every team's fans that don't have a good team right now are screaming for Cowher as well.

Cowher will be able to go pretty much wherever he wants to go. I do think that the Texans would have a good shot though. If you were a coach, who wouldn't want to work for Mcnair in a situation like this? Most likely, I think he would go to a place where he's getting paid TOP DOLLARS and a team that is really close to winning or already is and needs that right coach to get them over the hump instead of just the playoffs.

I heard something about Carolina as well. Do you or anyone else know why that is the most likely spot that he would like to coach when he comes back? IS that where he is from or something?

:mcnugget:

Specnatz
09-26-2008, 02:10 PM
if your happy with the product on the field, that is your prerogative. sometimes you have to **** or get off the pot. that is where I am at with Kubiak. if he can't turn it around this year, he deserves to be fired. period.

this isn't a popularity contest or charity function. this is NFL football and if you don't win and your team isn't competitive, you lose your job. kubiak's teams have not been winning and they have looked utterly pathetic. if you want another couple years of this garbage, fine. just don't expect me to sit by and make excuses for this pathetic product.

Your the same person who called for Kubiak to be fired after the second or third game last season and the team improved. You also said after week one this season that you would still take VY over Mario, so please excuse some of us who think you do not know football from a hole in the ground. You like Cowher, and he is a fine coach been to two Super Bowls and one won. Although it is not like he took over a team that sucked. 9 - 7, 9- 7, 7 - 9 in the three years prior to him taking over. What were the Texans prior to Kubiak taking over. Going from Noll to Cowher is a hell of a lot different than going from Capers to Kubiak. Hall of Fame coach vs 2x loser.

Many around here regard Fisher as a good to very good coach and he has only been to one super bowl and lost. in his first full season he was 7-9 and then went 8-8 for 3 years in a row, by your standards he would have been fired in his second season. Sense you like to say stats do not mean anything. Rich Kotite of the Eagles went 10-6, 11-5, 8-8, and 7-9 and was fired. Of course he went to the Jets and stunk, but I am not sure if that was on him more so than the GM drafting poorly before he got there and so the team was going to stink.

Back to the Eagles .... Kotite did well the fire couple of years did that make him a good coach? From what I remember he lost the locker room and had issues with management.

This is what needs to be looked at with Kubiak. How are the players responding to him are they still trying, are they still playing hard. Of course we do have to lok at his loyalty to some of the coordinators, mainly Richard Smith. If he is just keeping Smith out of loyalty then they both need to go and this is where Rick needs to step in and look at it and figure that out. The team did improve over the course of last year, what has changed from the end of last year because there was evidence of improvement in the Denver game and the Jags game, the Colts game not so much since the team got crushed.

HOU-TEX
09-26-2008, 02:18 PM
:mcnugget:

LOL! Right

Was Cowher the key of the Steelers success, or was it Dick LeBeau? Just something to ponder. :thinking:

Texan_Bill
09-26-2008, 02:20 PM
LOL! Right

Was Cowher the key of the Steelers success, or was it Dick LeBeau? Just something to ponder. :thinking:

Or the one constant... The Rooney family

HOU-TEX
09-26-2008, 02:22 PM
Or the one constant... The Rooney family

Good point. :shades:

beerlover
09-26-2008, 02:37 PM
seem to remember running Chris Palmer out of town & all he did was help Manning lead the Giants to a Superbowl. guess he wasn't the problem after all :thinking:

ChampionTexan
09-26-2008, 02:37 PM
Or the one constant... The Rooney family

Yeah, but it's not reassuring to know that in the first 39 years of their ownership (1933 - 1972), they went to the playoffs one time and had eight winning seasons. They hired Chuck Knoll in 1969, and while it took a couple of years things improved slightly from that point forward.

Runner
09-26-2008, 02:41 PM
seem to remember running Chris Palmer out of town & all he did was help Manning lead the Giants to a Superbowl. guess he wasn't the problem after all :thinking:

A) Pendry undercutting him didn't help his performance.

B) As I understand it there was one QB on the team that understood Palmer's whole offense. That QB didn't play though.

beerlover
09-26-2008, 03:01 PM
A) Pendry undercutting him didn't help his performance.

B) As I understand it there was one QB on the team that understood Palmer's whole offense. That QB didn't play though.

fast forward to 2008. does A) Kyle Shanahan fight himself since he retains both QB coaching along with OC duties or B) does Sage understand the system better than Schaub, again we don't know cause that QB hasn't played :shades:

Polo
09-26-2008, 03:02 PM
Do guys really think Sage is clearly the better QB or is he just exciting to watch ?

Texans_Chick
09-26-2008, 03:05 PM
A) Pendry undercutting him didn't help his performance.

B) As I understand it there was one QB on the team that understood Palmer's whole offense. That QB didn't play though.

Also, some crapatola picks on the line, and the fact that Capers and Palmer's way of seeing things was totally different. Capers wanted the role of his offense not to mess up so that the defense could help them win. Palmer's offensive philosophy is more wide open than that. Capers did some tinkering with the offense and then brought in Pendry. And well, Casserly's philosophy was whatever was good for Casserly (http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2008/04/25/professor-charley-casserly-destroying-your-draft-101/).

beerlover
09-26-2008, 03:35 PM
Kubiak is very hands on & runs the whole show. however if you have an inexpereinced OC who is aligned with the HC (no problem there) but also is responsible for the development of quote "the franchise QB" this may cloud his judgement & that of his QB's gametime decision making process.

So maybe what we're seeing from Kubiak/Shanahan & reflected in Matt Schaubs game time execution is an extension of forcing him to do something he is just not comfortable in doing. at least to me watching Schaub it looks like he is forcing the plays even if they're not there. the offensive line is reacting instead of establishing space & lanes, his targets are covered over the top & underneath. spacing/timing is all off this is where the QB has to both use his legs while thinking on his feet to make 3rd/4th read progressions. The Denver system works best with a mobile QB, not sure if Shanahan got to work a year with Cutler or not but I know Kubiak worked with Elway so do you think either one of those QB's who make the Denver system run resemble in anyway shape or form Matt Schaub?

bottom line Kubiak is responsible for these decisions & development of the team, maybe he needs to defer more authority & trust his coaches to make calls but until he settles the QB position effectivness its gonna be really hard to accomplish what we all want to see & expect :twocents:

Texans_Chick
09-26-2008, 03:44 PM
Kubiak is very hands on & runs the whole show. however if you have an inexpereinced OC who is aligned with the HC (no problem there) but also is responsible for the development of quote "the franchise QB" this may cloud his judgement & that of his QB's gametime decision making process.

So maybe what we're seeing from Kubiak/Shanahan & reflected in Matt Schaubs game time execution is an extension of forcing him to do something he is just not comfortable in doing. at least to me watching Schaub it looks like he is forcing the plays even if they're not there. the offensive line is reacting instead of establishing space & lanes, his targets are covered over the top & underneath. spacing/timing is all off this is where the QB has to both use his legs while thinking on his feet to make 3rd/4th read progressions. The Denver system works best with a mobile QB, not sure if Shanahan got to work a year with Cutler or not but I know Kubiak worked with Elway so do you think either one of those QB's who make the Denver system run resemble in anyway shape or form Matt Schaub?

bottom line Kubiak is responsible for these decisions & development of the team, maybe he needs to defer more authority & trust his coaches to make calls but until he settles the QB position effectivness its gonna be really hard to accomplish what we all want to see & expect :twocents:

I have less problem with Shanahan as OC because it is Kubiak's offense and Gibbs is there.

You have two guys very familiar with the Denver passing game (Kubiak, Pariani the TE's coach) and a guy very familiar with the running game and blocking (Gibbs), and Shanahan basically knows both and really is in the position of enacting Kubiak's philosophy.

Shanahan the Sr has said it takes a quarterback three years to really get the system. I think the offense gets its feet under them when October home games come--marketed in the newspaper as Octoberfest. ha

HOU-TEX
09-26-2008, 03:52 PM
I have less problem with Shanahan as OC because it is Kubiak's offense and Gibbs is there.

You have two guys very familiar with the Denver passing game (Kubiak, Pariani the TE's coach) and a guy very familiar with the running game and blocking (Gibbs), and Shanahan basically knows both and really is in the position of enacting Kubiak's philosophy.

Shanahan the Sr has said it takes a quarterback three years to really get the system. I think the offense gets its feet under them when October home games come--marketed in the newspaper as Octoberfest. ha

He might be correct, considering Cutler's been freakin lights out thus far. Then again, their ZBS looks awesome compared to the mobile pile of poo we create.

Second Honeymoon
09-26-2008, 04:13 PM
Your the same person who called for Kubiak to be fired after the second or third game last season and the team improved. You also said after week one this season that you would still take VY over Mario, so please excuse some of us who think you do not know football from a hole in the ground. You like Cowher, and he is a fine coach been to two Super Bowls and one won. Although it is not like he took over a team that sucked. 9 - 7, 9- 7, 7 - 9 in the three years prior to him taking over. What were the Texans prior to Kubiak taking over. Going from Noll to Cowher is a hell of a lot different than going from Capers to Kubiak. Hall of Fame coach vs 2x loser.

Many around here regard Fisher as a good to very good coach and he has only been to one super bowl and lost. in his first full season he was 7-9 and then went 8-8 for 3 years in a row, by your standards he would have been fired in his second season. Sense you like to say stats do not mean anything. Rich Kotite of the Eagles went 10-6, 11-5, 8-8, and 7-9 and was fired. Of course he went to the Jets and stunk, but I am not sure if that was on him more so than the GM drafting poorly before he got there and so the team was going to stink.

Back to the Eagles .... Kotite did well the fire couple of years did that make him a good coach? From what I remember he lost the locker room and had issues with management.

This is what needs to be looked at with Kubiak. How are the players responding to him are they still trying, are they still playing hard. Of course we do have to lok at his loyalty to some of the coordinators, mainly Richard Smith. If he is just keeping Smith out of loyalty then they both need to go and this is where Rick needs to step in and look at it and figure that out. The team did improve over the course of last year, what has changed from the end of last year because there was evidence of improvement in the Denver game and the Jags game, the Colts game not so much since the team got crushed.

last year the team improved but its not like they improved that much. who did they beat? who have they ever beat?

as for your VY 'blast', its just par for the course with you. why not mix in a 'VY is gay' joke, its about all your good for.

I stated that I would rather have VY, Schaub and Carr's cap space, and 2 2nd Round picks over Schaub and Mario. I still feel that way. so sue me. Basically we could have VY, Asanti Samuel and Justin Smith, 2 2nd Round picks, and still have a little cap space left. Mario has been a good player and could be a great player, but its not like he has had that much effect on our defense (to no fault of his own though) If VY didn't play well, we could have Sage as our QB which is something many are already clamoring for.

If you werent such a hater you would see that it actually makes some sense....but whatever, make another sausage joke or VY is gay joke and show the level of your intelligence and discourse. Just grow up.

Spec, I apologize for wanting my team to improve and not wallow in the malaise of this current Kubiak era. You act like the guy built the Sistine Chapel last year, when in effect he beat 7 teams, most of whom sucked, and a listless 2nd string nothing-to-play-for Jaguars team in Week 17. Not a horrible year, but hardly a year worth pining for or pointing as some validation of your love for Kubiak.

I was around before you got here and I will be around long after you have gone. Your trolling does nothing other than out you as a homer and a hater. I am sure you would be happy with a decade more of Kubiak's uninspired team but at least you could call yourself a 'real Texans fan' for sticking by your team....whatever dude.

Runner
09-26-2008, 04:30 PM
Kubiak is very hands on & runs the whole show.

I'm not sure I agree with this premise (if I understand what you are saying). He might be hands on for a head coach, but I don't think that means as much as people might think. He might be hands on with the QB, but I doubt he is telling Pitts how to block, Reeves how to cover, or Brown how to kick. He tells his coaches what he wants and they implement it to the best of their abilities. I doubt most players get much one-on-one time with Kubiak. That's not his job.

I'd be interested to hear if anyone has specific knowledge to the contrary.

infantrycak
09-26-2008, 04:37 PM
I'd be interested to hear if anyone has specific knowledge to the contrary.

I think you are right on OL, DB's etc. By report he is hands on more than most in two significant areas (neither unique to him)--actually calling the plays rather than the OC and playing a larger role in the draft than many HC's. Haven't heard that he is playing any role at all in the D other than the draft.

Texan_Bill
09-26-2008, 04:54 PM
"...................."

Spec... You forget the MO here. Unless its a coach named Royal, Akers, McWilliams, Mackovic or Brown someone (WSRN) won't be happy... :cowboy1:

Specnatz
09-26-2008, 05:02 PM
Spec... You forget the MO here. Unless its a coach named Royal, Akers, McWilliams, Mackovic or Brown someone (WSRN) won't be happy... :cowboy1:

True .. I like how the only thing a certain person noticed in my post was the mention of a mentally ill QB.

beerlover
09-26-2008, 05:06 PM
I think you are right on OL, DB's etc. By report he is hands on more than most in two significant areas (neither unique to him)--actually calling the plays rather than the OC and playing a larger role in the draft than many HC's. Haven't heard that he is playing any role at all in the D other than the draft.

that pretty much reflects the jest of it as much as humanly possible without being a dictatorship where permission is needed to take a :shower:

Second Honeymoon
09-26-2008, 05:14 PM
Spec... You forget the MO here. Unless its a coach named Royal, Akers, McWilliams, Mackovic or Brown someone (WSRN) won't be happy... :cowboy1:

hahaha...Brown as Texan's HC. That's a good one, TB :user:

it does bring up a question though. are there any college coaches that you think could fit the bill in Houston as HC?

Stoops? Carroll? Miles? that fat tub of lard coach at Notre Dame named Weiss?

Wolf
09-26-2008, 05:25 PM
well Carroll is out .. the Hard "C"(k)sound is out .. you would you have to get a new keyboard

Casserly
Carr
Capers
Chris Palmer

now Hard "C" sound
Kubiak

I know there are more people some wanted (and needed) to get rid of...:tease:

BigTimeTexanFan
09-26-2008, 08:37 PM
People are acting like Kubiak and Smith have been here the whole time. They took over a 2-14 team that was strapped for cash. They couldn’t even buy good players, yet they improved to 6-10 then 8-8. They have improved every year and now we’re two games in (both losses) and people want to fire them??? That definitely sounds like a recipe for success. Who are we going to replace them with, I hear Matt Millen is available:sarcasm:

b0ng
09-26-2008, 09:22 PM
What?! He's in his 3rd year?! His ass should have been fired after going 6-10 GOSH!

Seriously, it's the guy's first head coaching gig. Second Honeymoon, if you don't want to sit here through the "garbage" I don't think anybody is forcing you to watch Texans games or post on this forum.

I for one am saddened by some of the playcalling and the inability to throw the challenge flag at the correct time, but we're seeing steady improvement (by season, not by game) and people still want to *****. It's really getting so that this board is becoming nigh undreadable with all of the ridiculousness that's being thrown around. Lets get to some facts.

Fact #1 - Schaub is going to start vs Jacksonville and probably vs the Colts and during our home stretch no matter how badly he performs, especially if others around him are failing (Walter, AJ, most of the offensive line). I bet some people are going to get even more butt hurt about that than anything else.

Fact #2 - Kubiak will not be fired this year or next. I don't even get how you people think McNair is going to fire Kubiak anytime soon. The guy has steadily improved our team for 3 years, and although some of his abilities leave a lot to be desired, other areas of his he's great. Since he has become head coach our drafts have improved significantly. McNair even gave Capers and Casserly 5 years, and they were pretty much bad all the time. So if a guy shows he has more ability than the previous, why would he get fired sooner?

Fact #3 - Vince Young is not on this team.

Fact #4 - Bill Cowher would not want to come out of retirement to coach the Houston Texans. There's no tradition here, a well entrenched GM, and an offensive mindset in place. What would Cowher like about that? Oh yeah, not a damn thing

It's obvious that a lot of people here have never liked the hiring of Kubiak and wish him the worst and hope that he gets fired as soon as humanly possible. These people will make threats about "not sitting by and watching this" and yeah that's cool, but those sound like empty threats to me. Nobody wants to watch bad football, but people sure do like to ***** about on an internet forum. I'd also like to know how much good it does to start threads where the intention is to try to get a coach or a player fired/sat? Is it for venting? I know it's not to actually get said player/coach sat/fired, because I don't think the Texans FO makes decisions based on what the fans want (eg the 2006 Draft), and especially not what an internet forum wants. Yes I realize that this is the only place some people can come and get informed opinions on the Texans, but it's just ridiculous to see the entire front page of threads in the main forum just gobbled up in "Fire coach X" "Sit player X" threads.

I know I couldn't even bring myself to read this forum, or the main forum at the texans page because I knew it would be full armchair GM's talking about the great decisions they would make with this terrible football team. I guess I didn't wait long enough.

Yomaine
09-26-2008, 09:23 PM
I dont think Kubiak is totally the problem. We are just very short on raw talent and since our conception we haven't been able to bring talent in. I will say if we go something like 4-12 Kubiak should be on the hot seat next year, facing being canned in the 09 offseason.

Specnatz
09-26-2008, 10:22 PM
What?! He's in his 3rd year?! His ass should have been fired after going 6-10 GOSH!

Seriously, it's the guy's first head coaching gig. Second Honeymoon, if you don't want to sit here through the "garbage" I don't think anybody is forcing you to watch Texans games or post on this forum.


Now Bong unless you have your name on a brick your not a true fan according to SH, so your opinion mean absolutely nothing.

CloakNNNdagger
09-26-2008, 10:40 PM
I dont think Kubiak is totally the problem. We are just very short on raw talent and since our conception we haven't been able to bring talent in. I will say if we go something like 4-12 Kubiak should be on the hot seat next year, facing being canned in the 09 offseason.

Our talent level is not so low that you can explain the 3 debaucles against the Girls, Steelers and Tacks. The ultimate losses could have reasonably be expected.............but not the accompanying performances.......or should I say lack of.

b0ng
09-26-2008, 10:43 PM
Now Bong unless you have your name on a brick your not a true fan according to SH, so your opinion mean absolutely nothing.

I got my name on a brick

but the brick is in my house

Second Honeymoon
09-26-2008, 10:44 PM
Now Bong unless you have your name on a brick your not a true fan according to SH, so your opinion mean absolutely nothing.

now your grasping at straws and making blatantly false statements.

no big deal. hopefully the team will turn things around so this can all be mute.

HOU-TEX
09-27-2008, 11:46 AM
now your grasping at straws and making blatantly false statements.

no big deal. hopefully the team will turn things around so this can all be mute.

Moot...:shades:

Malloy
09-27-2008, 11:55 AM
Moot...:shades:

A bit of mute would be nice too.