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gtexan02
09-22-2008, 08:18 AM
This guy is charismatic, and he knows football. But is he a good coach? Ever since Sherman left and Shanny took over, our QB has looked like garbage. Our WRs are dropping passes and running bad routes. How much of this is on the players and how much of it is on Shanny?
Lil' Shottenheimer is getting flack up in NY for his poor offensive moves, maybe this hire a kid from a NFL family experiment isn't working out

On the other hand, maybe its just the change from Sherman to Shanny that is causing commotion. Couple that with the new OL shceme, and its easy to see where the problems could start.

HJam72
09-22-2008, 08:26 AM
Too early to tell. My early prediction is no, it's not him. Who's fault is it when we run up the middle against a 9 man front and don't audible to a pass or a run outside? Should be Schaub's fault, if he has all audibles allowed. If that was Shannahan, he's learning on the job. Not good. I mean, geez, I wouldn't have screwed that up.

Vinny
09-22-2008, 10:35 AM
we have a rookie coach, rookie DC, rookie OC, rookie owner and a rookie GM....so I guess 0-2 is par for the course.

spurstexanstros
09-22-2008, 10:39 AM
we have a rookie coach, rookie DC, rookie OC, rookie owner and a rookie GM....so I guess 0-2 is par for the course.

I would say they are past rookie phase. I would say that under Kubiak and Smith the recourd has improved by an average of 2 games per year. I still have faith in all of them. I think kyle is gonna be great, just ran into to great defenses a Hurricane and now fans crying for his head.

At least Bob Mcnair isnt jerry or worse Bud.

Honoring Earl 34
09-22-2008, 10:39 AM
we have a rookie coach, rookie DC, rookie OC, rookie owner and a rookie GM....so I guess 0-2 is par for the course.

How about a rookie LT and RB to boot . At least the rookies on TV had Kate Jackson .

Vinny
09-22-2008, 10:41 AM
I would say they are past rookie phase. I would say that under Kubiak and Smith the recourd has improved by an average of 2 games per year. I still have faith in all of them. I think kyle is gonna be great, just ran into to great defenses a Hurricane and now fans crying for his head.

At least Bob Mcnair isnt jerry or worse Bud.
This team isn't any better than Capers best team and still has a first time head coach, first time owner, first time DC, first time OC and a first time GM that we just extended (based on one good draft). Look at the Dolphins tear apart the Patriots yesterday....It doesn't take Bill Parcells half a decade to start making a difference.

Wolf
09-22-2008, 10:43 AM
true Vinny

I am glad our motto is "NOW" but I am still confused on when "NOW" starts
:jogger:

Mr teX
09-22-2008, 10:48 AM
Too early to tell. My early prediction is no, it's not him. Who's fault is it when we run up the middle against a 9 man front and don't audible to a pass or a run outside? Should be Schaub's fault, if he has all audibles allowed. If that was Shannahan, he's learning on the job. Not good. I mean, geez, I wouldn't have screwed that up.

I've heard kubes say on his show that he doesn't want his qb checking out of running plays too often or at least every time the qb sees a certain front... This goes along with his philosophy of wanting to run the ball ...so the answer to the bolded looks to be a no, schaub doesn't have much audible flexibility.

spurstexanstros
09-22-2008, 11:37 AM
This team isn't any better than Capers best team and still has a first time head coach, first time owner, first time DC, first time OC and a first time GM that we just extended (based on one good draft). Look at the Dolphins tear apart the Patriots yesterday....It doesn't take Bill Parcells half a decade to start making a difference.

Well, what should be done?
Should we fire Kubiak and have to start completely over?
When David Carr was here, everyone else blamed him for the problems. When anyone tried to support the guy they got blasted. I remeber mentioning several times that our problems were not on the offense but in the secondary ( Demarcus Faggins) but everyone was so certain that Carr was the problem. So certain they developed an obsessive hatred and attachment to the guy (note Carr threads on both sites still). This debate is not new its just a rehash of every argument Texans fans have had since the beggining.

What is the problem? Is it circumstances, scheduling or bad drafting?
The Mario draft is looking like the best draft the Texnas ever had, yet the architect of that draft was driven out of town. I do not think its the ownership because Mr. Mcnair has shown his willingness to spend money and I have a feeling once the slary cap goes , he will open up the bank because he is hungry for a winner more than we are. I know its frustrating to see other teams thrive after bad years while we stay mediocre.

Its the same thing we have ben discussing for years here, What to do with the Texans.

Who do we bring in that has the magic curall? Jimmy? We saw how his Miami expirament worked out. Parcells...... how many playoff wins has he had since leaving NE? Cowher.....? If Carolina cant get him how could we? So as of now we are left with what we have. Something has to change and I am at a loss for what that is.

Vinny
09-22-2008, 11:40 AM
Well, what should be done?
Should we fire Kubiak and have to start completely over?
When David Carr was here, everyone else blamed him for the problems. When anyone tried to support the guy they got blasted. I remeber mentioning several times that our problems were not on the offense but in the secondary ( Demarcus Faggins) but everyone was so certain that Carr was the problem. So certain they developed an obsessive hatred and attachment to the guy (note Carr threads on both sites still). This debate is not new its just a rehash of every argument Texans fans have had since the beggining.

What is the problem? Is it circumstances, scheduling or bad drafting?
The Mario draft is looking like the best draft the Texnas ever had, yet the architect of that draft was driven out of town. I do not think its the ownership because Mr. Mcnair has shown his willingness to spend money and I have a feeling once the slary cap goes , he will open up the bank because he is hungry for a winner more than we are. I know its frustrating to see other teams thrive after bad years while we stay mediocre.

Its the same thing we have ben discussing for years here, What to do with the Texans.

Who do we bring in that has the magic curall? Jimmy? We saw how his Miami expirament worked out. Parcells...... how many playoff wins has he had since leaving NE? Cowher.....? If Carolina cant get him how could we? So as of now we are left with what we have. Something has to change and I am at a loss for what that is.

that's what message boards are for....talking football and giving the various opinions with your fellow fans. Who really cares what fan opinion is anyway...doesn't change the team in anyway, but it's fun to "talk football" with your buddies. It isn't the schedule since this is the NFL and you can't just put Rice on the schedule....you have to play NFL teams. We need a new director of scouting and we need to be patient as fans...'cause this team isn't going to compete for a playoff spot this season. Sadly.

Honoring Earl 34
09-22-2008, 12:04 PM
that's what message boards are for....talking football and giving the various opinions with your fellow fans. Who really cares what fan opinion is anyway...doesn't change the team in anyway, but it's fun to "talk football" with your buddies. It isn't the schedule since this is the NFL and you can't just put Rice on the schedule....you have to play NFL teams. We need a new director of scouting and we need to be patient as fans...'cause this team isn't going to compete for a playoff spot this season. Sadly.

What are Grier's resonsibilities ?

Vinny
09-22-2008, 12:06 PM
What are Grier's resonsibilities ? evaluating the vast talents of Stacey Mack, Todd Wade, Robaire Smith and Anthony Weaver - then signing them to big contracts.

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1001580&postcount=39

Honoring Earl 34
09-22-2008, 12:10 PM
http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1001580&postcount=39

I wonder if he does advanced scouting for future games . If he did , it's inline with his FA signings . This guy has made alot of average players rich .

LonerATO
09-22-2008, 01:58 PM
I would say they are past rookie phase. I would say that under Kubiak and Smith the recourd has improved by an average of 2 games per year. I still have faith in all of them. I think kyle is gonna be great, just ran into to great defenses a Hurricane and now fans crying for his head.

At least Bob Mcnair isnt jerry or worse Bud.

Hell I wish he was more like Jerry. I am no Cowboys fan but you have to admit he makes sure he gets people that can win freaking games! I will say this he puts his hands into the cookie jar too many times but he goes after the best product available.

Texans_Chick
09-22-2008, 03:38 PM
we have a rookie coach, rookie DC, rookie OC, rookie owner and a rookie GM....so I guess 0-2 is par for the course.

See, you need someone with a lot of NFL experience see.

Signed,
Charlie Casserly and his wig




I, on the other hand, understand your point.

GP
09-22-2008, 03:59 PM
Too early to tell. My early prediction is no, it's not him. Who's fault is it when we run up the middle against a 9 man front and don't audible to a pass or a run outside? Should be Schaub's fault, if he has all audibles allowed. If that was Shannahan, he's learning on the job. Not good. I mean, geez, I wouldn't have screwed that up.

Forget the audible situation.

This team's WRs, and its TE, seem to run better routes, get in and out of the huddle more quickly, have a pep in their step, and just generally give "more" when Sage is in the game as QB. That happens when you know your QB isn't going to roll on the ground all day...look, when it started happening to David Carr a lot, the offense just gave up. How could you NOT?

I can't get past the Denver game last year, at the end of it: There was Kubiak, standing pretty proudly as the clock expired. Stuffed his game sheet away, snapped off the headset, and had a smile on his face: The team just took his former team to the task and won.

And then there's the shot of Sage smiling, on the field, not holding his head in his hands on the bench. He remained upright during the game, made some good plays, and led the team to the win. The commentators were even beginning to smell a controversy, the postgame interview was all about asking Sage if he felt he needed a starting gig. Sage expressed that he'd like one, but that he's not lobbying for one. Just wants to play well.

(Sigh)

But we have this QB, see. He's our guy, you see. This is just how the business goes. Everyone does OK sometimes, and then you're down again, see? And so we have to go slow. Evaluate. You don't want to act too quickly in the NFL. Slow and steady wins the race, see?

If I were the Browns HC, Brady Quinn gets plugged in next week.

It's not knee-jerking. It's trying SOMETHING instead of sitting there and letting your team think that each Sunday you're headed out to get your sack handed to you within about the first 10 minutes.

Kyle is not doing a bad job, IMO. It leaves his hands when he radio's it down to Kubiak. And it is DOCUMENTED that Kubiak still has override rights to the playcall that goes in. I saw some different playcalls that I had NEVER seen when Sherman was the OC. I see, at least, the intent to vary things up a little. I DON'T see a QB who can handle a rush. That's not on Shanny Jr., to me.

powerfuldragon
09-23-2008, 03:55 PM
Shameaham, Shamaham, etc.

NBT
09-23-2008, 04:37 PM
Kubes needs to quit being so pig headed stubborn and change starting QBs till Schaub shows he has settled down.

Yes, I heartily agree, Greer needs to go before he bankrupts the team signing old has beens to huge contracts.

will742
09-23-2008, 05:11 PM
Most people don't remember that Kyle Shannahan hand-picked our 3rd round draft pick to fit into our offense. I think his name was Steve Slaton?

Texans_Chick
09-23-2008, 10:59 PM
This guy is charismatic, and he knows football. But is he a good coach? Ever since Sherman left and Shanny took over, our QB has looked like garbage. Our WRs are dropping passes and running bad routes. How much of this is on the players and how much of it is on Shanny?
Lil' Shottenheimer is getting flack up in NY for his poor offensive moves, maybe this hire a kid from a NFL family experiment isn't working out

On the other hand, maybe its just the change from Sherman to Shanny that is causing commotion. Couple that with the new OL shceme, and its easy to see where the problems could start.

Shanahan doesn't call the plays. Kubiak does.

I think the biggest problem that the Texans have is a really messed up September that probably would have been messed up no matter what they did.

HJam72
09-24-2008, 07:44 AM
Most people don't remember that Kyle Shannahan hand-picked our 3rd round draft pick to fit into our offense. I think his name was Steve Slaton?

OK, get Sage on the field....and give Shannie a raise. :)

SheTexan
09-24-2008, 08:58 AM
Shanahan doesn't call the plays. Kubiak does.

I think the biggest problem that the Texans have is a really messed up September that probably would have been messed up no matter what they did.

So very true!!! We all knew going into this season that Sept was gonna SUK!! This board has been discussing that since the schedule came out. It's not Kyle Shanahans fault AJ forgot how to catch a ball. If MS is gonna let someone like Haynesworth get in his head then he needs to ride the pine. JMO! If Richard Smith is dumb enough to keep Reeves in the lineup then we deserve to get burned, and he deserves to get the axe! Sometimes I think RS must be a Cowboy lover at heart. Why else would he keep playing Reeves. LORD how I wish DR was back!!

Porky
09-24-2008, 09:27 AM
Look, here is Kyle's picture in the media guide. Nice to see he really likes football.

http://images.buycostumes.com/mgen/merchandiser/32031.jpg

infantrycak
09-24-2008, 09:30 AM
So very true!!! We all knew going into this season that Sept was gonna SUK!! This board has been discussing that since the schedule came out.

Good perspective shetex. Many people were predicting a 1-4 start to begin the season with the win coming against Baltimore and the more optimistic folks hoping to come out 2-3. In other words many people expected us to lose to both the teams we have played. The teeth gnashing seems out of control IMO.

Double Barrel
09-24-2008, 09:44 AM
Good perspective shetex. Many people were predicting a 1-4 start to begin the season with the win coming against Baltimore and the more optimistic folks hoping to come out 2-3. In other words many people expected us to lose to both the teams we have played. The teeth gnashing seems out of control IMO.

It's not the losing, per say (we are conditioned for that), it's how we are losing that is causing concern. I honestly don't blame anyone for teeth gnashing at this point. Our team seems unprepared and the coaches seem to have their collective heads up their rears at the moment.

I mean, seriously, seeing your QB post a 27.8 rating, your star WR dropping TD passes, your HC unable to trust his team in various ways, and a defensive coordinator that can't gameplay a scheme to bust out of a wet paper bag...well, it's just too much when you had any hope at all going into the season. We were supposed to be competitive, and while it's only two games, there is a sense of deja vu among the fanbase.

HOU-TEX
09-24-2008, 09:44 AM
Good perspective shetex. Many people were predicting a 1-4 start to begin the season with the win coming against Baltimore and the more optimistic folks hoping to come out 2-3. In other words many people expected us to lose to both the teams we have played. The teeth gnashing seems out of control IMO.

Yes, but did we expect them to look so bad? I was only expecting 1 or 2 wins, but I was also expecting the losses to be a bit more competitive.

I ain't giving up though. I'll continue to watch. I will continue to scream at the TV. My wife will likely continue to "go shopping" during the timespan due to the barrage of profanities thrown about.

infantrycak
09-24-2008, 10:06 AM
It's not the losing, per say (we are conditioned for that), it's how we are losing that is causing concern.

Yes, but did we expect them to look so bad?

I understand what y'all are saying. I guess I just think folks are running into a problem both with expectation and historical perspective. When you expect a team to lose, you have to figure there are going to be areas you can identify getting beat, mistakes being made, etc. Was it reasonable to think an OL featuring three new guys including a rookie was going to do real well against the two DL's they just played? From there it is a snowball for any team. Look at Big Ben's play last week when pressured. (For the love of god people understand that is a comparison of a QB when pressured and not pressured--not a comparison of relative merits of the Schaub and Big Ben). Then there is the historical part with people calling in to radio shows and comparing the team to the 2-14 year or saying Carr and Schaub are the same. That is just revisionist history/hyperbole.

Now I will say, I am on the fire Richard Smith bandwagon. I can't fathom why that isn't an easy decision. The guy Kubiak originally wanted as DC is here and very familiar with the players. You could boot Smith and have the easiest transition ever.

HOU-TEX
09-24-2008, 10:12 AM
I understand what y'all are saying. I guess I just think folks are running into a problem both with expectation and historical perspective. When you expect a team to lose, you have to figure there are going to be areas you can identify getting beat, mistakes being made, etc. Was it reasonable to think an OL featuring three new guys including a rookie was going to do real well against the two DL's they just played? From there it is a snowball for any team. Look at Big Ben's play last week when pressured. (For the love of god people understand that is a comparison of a QB when pressured and not pressured--not a comparison of relative merits of the Schaub and Big Ben). Then there is the historical part with people calling in to radio shows and comparing the team to the 2-14 year or saying Carr and Schaub are the same. That is just revisionist history/hyperbole.

Now I will say, I am on the fire Richard Smith bandwagon. I can't fathom why that isn't an easy decision. The guy Kubiak originally wanted as DC is here and very familiar with the players. You could boot Smith and have the easiest transition ever.

Good post!

That would be the best thing to do, but we know how this organization tends to procrastinate in it's decision making process.

spurstexanstros
09-24-2008, 10:15 AM
Wow these have been exceptional posts to read, from she texan to DB and Infantry. All make convincing arguments. Really good reads. it has been lacking in certain places. (myself included)

Texan_Bill
09-24-2008, 10:28 AM
Yes, but did we expect them to look so bad? I was only expecting 1 or 2 wins, but I was also expecting the losses to be a bit more competitive.

I ain't giving up though. I'll continue to watch. I will continue to scream at the TV. My wife will likely continue to "go shopping" during the timespan due to the barrage of profanities thrown about.

Honestly, against Pittsburgh I did expect to get hammered that badly. At Tennessee: pre-Ike I expected a tight game, post Ike I wasn't sure what to expect...

HOU-TEX
09-24-2008, 10:30 AM
Honestly, against Pittsburgh I did expect to get hammered that badly. At Tennessee: pre-Ike I expected a tight game, post Ike I wasn't sure what to expect...

I suppose, and actually the titan game was still ours to be had. We beat ourselves in a huge way. 12 points in 6 redzone appearances, nuff said.

RipTraxx
09-25-2008, 03:15 AM
I suppose, and actually the titan game was still ours to be had. We beat ourselves in a huge way. 12 points in 6 redzone appearances, nuff said.

So the real issue is to improve our redzone offense (how we do that i dont know)

Malloy
09-25-2008, 05:19 AM
I ain't giving up though. I'll continue to watch. I will continue to scream at the TV. My wife will likely continue to "go shopping" during the timespan due to the barrage of profanities thrown about.

Just make sure she's not at the sports bar watching the Cowboys ;)


In regards to the two losses, the Pittsburg game we were completely outplayed on both sides of the ball, but despite the end score in the Titans game, the game was alot more close. yeah, we lose, I get it, being close is still a check on the L-column. What I focus on is that we at least had a CHANCE against the Titans, a team that fields a very good defense.

HOU-TEX
09-25-2008, 09:33 AM
So the real issue is to improve our redzone offense (how we do that i dont know)

Well, from what Kubiak said (TIFWIW), it's all about the "E" word. He also admitted he made some bad calls. IMO, he becomes more devoted to the passing game too soon when we're behind. We had plenty of time in the 2nd half for Slaton to do work.

I'm beginning to wonder if it might be about time for Kubiak to hand the play-calling duties off to someone else.

The execution though was disappointing. We had some chances down there to make some plays. We had some better calls we could make on my part. We need to run the ball better down there.

We had a drop down there; we had a busted play on a second down. I want to say a second-and-10 on the second drive. We had a totally busted play that we had worked on all week, and we busted it. You know, we had a third-down play where we had exactly what we wanted, exact defense, with two guys wide open and we donít hold up to get the ball. I probably threw it too much in the second half in the re dzone, probably should have ran it more down there.

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=4658

threetoedpete
09-25-2008, 01:41 PM
Well, I'm a stable hold the line guy. I don't want to see any changes at this point. But what I will say is that when teams are doubling on the out route...and only doubling it when we're running it...I got to figure there is more than play calling going on. Someone has a tell when we're running it or we've got some very good guessing going on. The other team is reading something.

NBT
09-25-2008, 03:50 PM
It would help everyones disposition if this team would show they can play well, and hard, and just win one. We would all feel a little better, and possibly make some allowances. Or maybe not.