PDA

View Full Version : If Kubiak decides to start Sage...


Texan JBZ
09-22-2008, 01:39 AM
If Kubiak decides to start Sage and he doesn't play any better than Schaub, then what? I know everybody is frustrated with Schaub. I am to a certain extent. He did have 3 TD passes dropped against the Titans. The two by AJ have gotten the most attention, but Walter also had one in his hands in the endzone and couldn't bring it in. That's 21 points that went straight out the window. Had the receivers come down with the ball, everyone would be talking differently about Schaub. But I know - If my aunt had a pipe she'd be my uncle, right?

All I'm saying is that if Sage is put in as the starter next week, what kind of difference do you think it would make. Kubes is still calling the plays you know. I like Sage, but he is a high risk-high reward type of QB. He's a gunslinger. He might throw 4TDs or 4 INTs. I say that it is still wayyyyyy too early in the season to be overhauling. A lot of teams that are winning right now such as Buffalo and Denver may be losing teams in 4 weeks. I say wait a few more weeks. If Schaub's play doesn't improve over the next two games, then pull him as the starter for the remainder of the season. That way, there's no second guessing needed.

DiehardChris
09-22-2008, 02:08 AM
He's not going to start Sage.

If Schaub tanks against Jacksonville? Then I could see it happening. He played horribly - but like you said - he had two TDs dropped today. If that doesn't happen, we might be talking about a hard-fought loss that we just couldn't pull off in the end.

Or - instead of 31-12, it might have been 45-24. /shrug

Nighthawk
09-22-2008, 03:19 AM
He's not going to start Sage.

My dime says he'll find a way to get Sage in the game next week, though you may be right that it'll take another game or two.

Texans_Chick
09-22-2008, 08:54 AM
He's not going to start Sage.

If Schaub tanks against Jacksonville? Then I could see it happening. He played horribly - but like you said - he had two TDs dropped today. If that doesn't happen, we might be talking about a hard-fought loss that we just couldn't pull off in the end.

Or - instead of 31-12, it might have been 45-24. /shrug

You never know what could have happened if a few plays went a little differently. It changes the play calling. I'm guessing that last INT TD doesn't happen.

nunusguy
09-22-2008, 09:00 AM
If Schaub stinks it up against the Jags like he did the first 2 weeks, I doubt
that he remains the starter for the Texans home opener the following week
against the Colts. But he's got this week to make it happen, after that Kubiak
has to second-guess the whole decision he & Smith made about the trade to ATL for Schaub and bring in Sage IMO.

Texan_Bill
09-22-2008, 09:08 AM
What amazed me was that we started to move the ball (a little) by rolling Schaub out, and with misdirections. When we started the second half it seemed as though we went back to the straight drop back.... Or was I crazy from the heat???

Polo
09-22-2008, 09:15 AM
All I'm saying is that if Sage is put in as the starter next week, what kind of

Before I post this let me preface it by saying I've been a Schaub supporter since day one, and I still think he can be effective with more consistent protection.



That said, I think the t.v. announcers nailed it yesterday.


From my observations, I recognized that Schaub had never done anything against a tough defense. I knew he struggled with pressure in his face. I knew he lacked mobility.

What I hadn't ever really thought about was him not showing that he can make plays when things break down around him.

I like Matt and I think that if guys around him were more solid/played better he could lead us to more victories/put more points on the board. Unfortunately, that isn't happening.

This isn't a ringing endorsement for Sage. He has problems of his own and by no means do I think he's going to come in and be the answer.

At this point though, Sage's mobility and his ability to make plays when things are breaking down might be a trump card......But then again, maybe not....

It's a tough decision, one I'm glad I don't have to make.

CloakNNNdagger
09-22-2008, 09:17 AM
You never know what could have happened if a few plays went a little differently. It changes the play calling. I'm guessing that last INT TD doesn't happen.

Reviewing that 1st dropped ball by AJ, there was no way he could have caught that ball AND kept both feet in bounds. AJ was trying to keep his feet in and the ball was thrown just beyond his limits to do both. From a fan standpoint, we would have accepted it better if he had caught it, and reviewed the fact that he could not have stay in bounds. AJ as nice as he is, is not about to put the finger of the placement of the ball on Schaub (in public).

Polo
09-22-2008, 09:19 AM
I've seen plenty recievers make that catch and stay in bounds. AJ had both feet in bounds as he dropped the ball.

We don't make excuses for anyone else on this team...

A.J. dropped some balls that he shoulda caught...

HOU-TEX
09-22-2008, 09:53 AM
I've seen plenty recievers make that catch and stay in bounds. AJ had both feet in bounds as he dropped the ball.

We don't make excuses for anyone else on this team...

A.J. dropped some balls that he shoulda caught...

I agree. I'm guessing Cloak might be thinking of a different play, because AJ stayed in bounds while dropping the ball.

The long ball in the middle should've been even easier to catch. He should've shielded off the defender with his body, but the ball should've been caught anyway.

Mr teX
09-22-2008, 09:57 AM
You never know what could have happened if a few plays went a little differently. It changes the play calling. I'm guessing that last INT TD doesn't happen.

Eh.. i can't fault schaub for that he was just trying to make something happen with limited time on the clock & trying not to take the sack...you see it all the time at the end of games. They still had to recover the onside kick & go down the field & score another TD to win it...pretty long odds made even longer b/c tenn's defense is pretty good.

Corrosion
09-22-2008, 09:58 AM
If Kubiak decides to start Sage and he doesn't play any better than Schaub, then what? I know everybody is frustrated with Schaub. I am to a certain extent. He did have 3 TD passes dropped against the Titans. The two by AJ have gotten the most attention, but Walter also had one in his hands in the endzone and couldn't bring it in. That's 21 points that went straight out the window. Had the receivers come down with the ball, everyone would be talking differently about Schaub. But I know - If my aunt had a pipe she'd be my uncle, right?

All I'm saying is that if Sage is put in as the starter next week, what kind of difference do you think it would make. Kubes is still calling the plays you know. I like Sage, but he is a high risk-high reward type of QB. He's a gunslinger. He might throw 4TDs or 4 INTs. I say that it is still wayyyyyy too early in the season to be overhauling. A lot of teams that are winning right now such as Buffalo and Denver may be losing teams in 4 weeks. I say wait a few more weeks. If Schaub's play doesn't improve over the next two games, then pull him as the starter for the remainder of the season. That way, there's no second guessing needed.

Lil Shanny is calling the plays.


As for making the change and not getting results , thats a risk reward type move and probably a good part of the reason Kubiak hasnt gone to Rosenfels yet.

HOU-TEX
09-22-2008, 10:00 AM
Lil Shanny is calling the plays.


As for making the change and not getting results , thats a risk reward type move and probably a good part of the reason Kubiak hasnt gone to Rosenfels yet.

He might call the plays, but they go through Kubiak. Kubiak's the one that relays them to the QB :cool:

Polo
09-22-2008, 10:11 AM
That goal line series where we passed on first and second and then tried to run on third really hurt my feelings.

Terrible series of play-calling.

Also late in the game where we needed to get a first down and it was like 3rd and 5 we ran that pitch to Slaton...Dumb....Tennesee had been all over that stuff...They were around the LOS all day long...I understand wanting to get the ball into Slaton's hands, but why not hit them with something a little more creative than a toss to the short side of the field ?

Ole Miss Texan
09-22-2008, 10:11 AM
I'm not trying to say it's the O-lines fault, because there is plenty of blame to go ALL around our team. Schaub has got to improve b/c he's not playing like a franchise QB right now, I get that.

But what I'm sick and tired of, is seeing Schaub move around in the pocket, step (exactly like what a QB is supposed to do), deliver a great throw that's a big completion... maybe even a TD, and then he gets DRILLED. Not just pushed down, he rolls over and gets up... but gets hit hard with the DE/DT driving him to the ground. This happens multiple times every game and Schaub is not going to be successful unless this can stop.

This is the biggest thing that frustrates me about this team right now (and there are LOTS of things that frustrate me). Yes, we've improved in pass protection, yes our sacks have nearly halved since Carr left, but the QB hurries and the QB hits are still there. I don't care if he avoids a sack and throws a TD... he's still getting hit the hardest in the league and he won't be avoiding sacks and throwing TD's much longer if this continues. :foottap:

Polo
09-22-2008, 10:17 AM
But what I'm sick and tired of, is seeing Schaub move around in the pocket, step (exactly like what a QB is supposed to do), deliver a great throw that's a big completion... maybe even a TD, and then he gets DRILLED. Not just pushed down, he rolls over and gets up... but gets hit hard with the DE/DT driving him to the ground. This happens multiple times every game and Schaub is not going to be successful unless this can stop.


Did you watch the Dallas vs GB game last night ?


The difference between Schaub and the QB's from that game is mobility and the ability do do something when protection breaks down...

When has Schaub EVER done that ? When has Schaub ever performed against a tough, physical defense?

Every QB gets hit and gets licks put on them...

El Tejano
09-22-2008, 10:28 AM
Sitting Schaub has to be done so the team can see that Kubes is trying to do what is best for the team. Otherwise, they see Schaub still playing and figure either they can play crappy too or Schaub is the favorite and can't be touched. I know of a previous regime that handled the QB situation that way before and well....

Anyhow, ever since Sage has been here he has made good things happen and he deserves his shot.

Corrosion
09-22-2008, 10:30 AM
Did you watch the Dallas vs GB game last night ?


The difference between Schaub and the QB's from that game is mobility and the ability do do something when protection breaks down...

When has Schaub EVER done that ? When has Schaub ever performed against a tough, physical defense?
Every QB gets hit and gets licks put on them...

I think that has a lot to do with this teams offensive philosophy. ZBS teams seem to struggle Vs. more physical defenses. It starts up fromt in the trenches , you lose those battles you generally lose the game.


I've said it before and I'll say it again , I'm not a fan of the ZBS and its smaller more agile linemen , give me a bunch of road grader type guy's who just go out and knock the shit outa the opposition control the line of scrimmage and the clock.

Mr teX
09-22-2008, 10:40 AM
Sitting Schaub has to be done so the team can see that Kubes is trying to do what is best for the team. Otherwise, they see Schaub still playing and figure either they can play crappy too or Schaub is the favorite and can't be touched. I know of a previous regime that handled the QB situation that way before and well....

Anyhow, ever since Sage has been here he has made good things happen and he deserves his shot.

people used to say the same about tony banks...the backup qb is always the more popular of the 2 unless you're 1 of the what 5-6 teams who are set with thier franchise guy.

GP
09-22-2008, 10:58 AM
OK, here I go again:

Last year, Schaub's pocket awareness, in-the-pocket mobility, and just his overall "zip" in his legs and his arm was GREAT in week one. We had sports media analysts saying "Hey, that was a smart move by the Texans."

But then I started noticing that he began dropping off. We still looked OK, but I noticed Schaub was slowing down. The legs looked sluggish, the footwork was gone, and he was getting touched a lot more. And he was making questionable passes. I still say that the Carolina game last season was a factor of our special teams more than Schaub's comeback abilities.

Well, I also was not fan of Schaub's red zone abilities. He seemed to move the ball well, between the 20s, but he just sort of "breaks down" mentally AND physically when we sniff paydirt. You can see it. It's not hard to notice it.

I got hammered for stating all this, getting heckled for it by the great fans here on this board. Everybody feels this overwhelming need to ridicule those who don't drink the Kool Aid on the QB situation (of all things). I think a lot of it is because we don't admit that we BLEW two consecutive 2nd rounders, and possibly two or three years of our lives on a guy that just HAS to be better than David Carr. So, a lot of people want to keep eating (insert your favorite word for it here) just for the sake of convincing themselves that things are going to be OK.

Here's a line that you'' recognize as one of mine: Matt Schaub will NOT become the QB that he was expected to be. Why? Because while he was "some" skills that suit the WCO, he is not athletic enough to survive the hits that ALL NFL QBs are going to take from time to time.

The legs look like he's running in a sandbox, the footwork is bad, and he doesn't deal with the pressure good enough. I've seen him make some good bail-outs, but that was last season in the first 1-3 games.

But, he DOES call all his teammates and get into touch with them. So he's got THAT going for him.

Look, he's a nicer guy (all around) than Carr ever was and will be. He stopped the bleeding that Carr started. But when I saw Schaub mouthing at Kubiak on the sideline, I think we just saw two guys who might be in a little over the heads here...trying to point the finger at the other.

Going to be interesting to see how long it takes Kubiak to try something different than what's NOT working and HASN'T been working since about week 3 of last year. Schaub was awful yesterday.

The Titans fans know it, and Haynesworth knows it. They love to see Schaub in the game like we used to love to see Byron Leftwich in the game. And when that "bad QB gravy train" stops...it's funny how things get eerily silent from the opposing fans. It's a "Oh, crap...they figured it out..." sort of silence.

Kubiak? Don't get me started on that issue. He doesn't understand simple math:

Titans 24
Texans 12

12 + 3 = 15

15 + 3 = 18

18 + 6 = 24

24 + 1 = 25

25 = We win.

We should have kicked two field goals, and then we could have had more pressure on the Titans as we try to score the TD with 2 minutes left. Kris is just begging for those opportunities. It seemed so simple, to me, at the time. KICK THE FIELD GOAL. There's a ton of time left in the game to do it. And "No," this is not me looking back on it all. I was saying this from the very first 4th down effort that failed. "WHAT?!? No, no. no no. NO!!! Take the points! We can do this!"

(Sigh)

If Kubiak likes being a head coach in Houston, he better stop playing footsy with Schaub and go ahead and let him have a breather--Put in Sage vs. Jags. Say that Schaub has bruided ribs. It ain't like it'd be the first time Kubiak lied about an injury before...

But someone else is right: He's going to lose this TEAM if he doesn't try Sage. I think AJ's body language said it all: "Another dopey QB...again." AJ wasn't acting like he cared out there. Period. And who can blame him? He'd be on a playoff team if he wasn't HERE. I think AJ is one breath away from saying he wants out. He looked like he had just learned somebody in his family died yesterday. No emotion. No quickness when he broke for the ball on his routes. Not even upset when he dropped a ball or whatever. He just looked like a zombie out there.

I think AJ is sending that signal to Kubiak, IMO.

Vinny
09-22-2008, 11:01 AM
I don't think Rosenfels is any better than Commander Cody Carelson and I'm comming to the conclusion that Schaub isn't any better than Rosenfels.....um, so that means we really don't have a starting QB, just a couple of good reserves.

HOU-TEX
09-22-2008, 11:06 AM
I don't think Rosenfels is any better than Commander Cody Carelson and I'm comming to the conclusion that Schaub isn't any better than Rosenfels.....um, so that means we really don't have a starting QB, just a couple of good reserves.

At this point in time....I agree.

It frustrates the hell out of me watching Cutler and the Broncos play.....THE RIGHT WAY!!

If only that team had a defense

GP
09-22-2008, 11:18 AM
people used to say the same about tony banks...the backup qb is always the more popular of the 2 unless you're 1 of the what 5-6 teams who are set with thier franchise guy.


I have heard this little snappy comeback, and it makes NO sense.

People were tired of Drew Beldsoe, too, and a little boy named Tom Brady took over when Drew was injured. You think your argument is so valuable as to make it an absolute? "Well, everyone always falls in the love with the backup when the starter isn't doing well."

Dang straight they do. Know why? Because an anointed "starting" QB can screw up for infinity and still keep his job. Meanwhile, there's a guy on the sideline who wants to play FOOTBALL. And he is watching the starter. He is seeing what the starter is doing wrong. He wants HIS chance.

And news flash: Sage is better than banks. Sage pretty much rescued last year's season, btw. Gloss it over all you want, but the backup QB on this team has been pushing for the job since midway through last season.

Kerry Collins looked Ok yesterday, but I guess Titans fans weren't hoping for VY's benching for awhile, right? Wrong.

This is about Texans fans not wanting to feel that people think we were stupid for the Schaub trade. And guess what? We DO look stupid. Atlanta isn't missing a beat with Matt Schaub, and in fact they look pretty doggone good with a rookie in there.

face it, guys: We gambled on Schaub and it's a bust. It cost us TWO 2nd rounders that would probably be starting on two spots on our team. So figure out exactly where we'd need those guys right now...well, we can take our pick since this team IS devoid of enough "starting" talent in order to compete with the other teams.

This season was ripe for the picking, IMO, in our division. We could have beaten Titans yesterday, but bad game management by Kubiak coupled with awful QB play from Schaub sealed our fate. Even Richard Smith looked like he was running laps around Kubiak's offense yesterday.

I am sick and tired of the Sage bashing. With the way Schaub is playing, and HAS played since midway of last season, there's really no justification for the amount of blind support that Schaub has been given. None.

LOL. I just keep watching these games, wondering when the Schaub balloon is finally going to burst. People here said he needed a year under his belt, he'd get conditioned over the off-season, and he'd look better and he'd be able to carry a full load. He looks worse through these two games than at any other point last year. It's a REGRESSION, folks.

Oh, and I also said over the summer THIS: Texans fans on this board are going to be screaming for another QB in the off-season of 2009...we're going to see people begging for a QB draftee like we saw people begging for an OL draftee for so long.

Slaton might cut it at RB if he keeps this up. But the QB position, even with Sage in there, is not a good place to be in. Here's another of my lines that people will recognize: "We have TWO backup QBs who are trying to become the starter for this team. We don't have a 'starter' here. Do we?"

Go Texans! I ain't leaving. Too much invested to drop out now. But I think our HC could do a lot better than using the standard behavior of propping up bad QB play for extended periods of time. He needs to cherish his job more, and get going on trying different QBs out for the gig.

The only good news that happened Sunday is that Slaton might actually be able to hack it at RB. That SPEED was hellish yesterday, and that's something DD never had. So maybe that makes it easier for Kubiak to look at making a tweak at QB. He's got RB solidified a little bit now.

Ole Miss Texan
09-22-2008, 11:19 AM
Did you watch the Dallas vs GB game last night ?


The difference between Schaub and the QB's from that game is mobility and the ability do do something when protection breaks down...

When has Schaub EVER done that ? When has Schaub ever performed against a tough, physical defense?

Every QB gets hit and gets licks put on them...

No, I didn't watch the Dallas vs. GB game cuz my power is still out- thanks for rubbing it in! :)

I've been known to watch a game or two, even other football teams and understand that other QB's get hit too. But that doesn't make me feel any good when OURS does. I completely understand when people have issues about his mobility or if protection breaks down...

I'm just bringing up a very real situation that disappoints me that's completely unrelated to that. It's when there is a designed play for Schaub to stay in the pocket and deliver the throw. The protection holds long enough for Schaub to get rid of the ball for a completion, but a second later he gets hit HARD. Again, it's not that a DE gets his hand on his jersey and it's just a rushed throw, or an arm tackle... it's when the defender completely runs by Winston... or Brisiel... or Myers and hits Schaub right in the chest running full speed and lands on top of him.

Schaub has been hit like that more in one game than our entire DL has deliverd during the whole season.

Polo
09-22-2008, 11:22 AM
No, I didn't watch the Dallas vs. GB game cuz my power is still out- thanks for rubbing it in! :)

I've been known to watch a game or two, even other football teams and understand that other QB's get hit too. But that doesn't make me feel any good when OURS does. I completely understand when people have issues about his mobility or if protection breaks down...

I'm just bringing up a very real situation that disappoints me that's completely unrelated to that. It's when there is a designed play for Schaub to stay in the pocket and deliver the throw. The protection holds long enough for Schaub to get rid of the ball for a completion, but a second later he gets hit HARD. Again, it's not that a DE gets his hand on his jersey and it's just a rushed throw, or an arm tackle... it's when the defender completely runs by Winston... or Brisiel... or Myers and hits Schaub right in the chest running full speed and lands on top of him.

Schaub has been hit like that more in one game than our entire DL has deliverd during the whole season.


You're right...

Our o-line whiffs a lot...

I just think if Schaub were a little more athletic some of those hits wouldn't be so bad...or as often...

But you're definitely right...

GP
09-22-2008, 11:26 AM
I don't think Rosenfels is any better than Commander Cody Carelson and I'm comming to the conclusion that Schaub isn't any better than Rosenfels.....um, so that means we really don't have a starting QB, just a couple of good reserves.



Which brings me to my statement from this past summer: "We have TWO backup QBs who are trying to become the starter for this team." Just because we spent two draft picks on Schaub, and just because it's good practice to "name" a starter for the sake of leadership of the offense...doesn't mean it's translating to success for the Texans. There should not be a sacred cow in terms of propping up the starter and letting him stay the starter unless he's hurt. The only sacred cow should be WINNING no matter who is doing it.

Wouldn't it be fair to say that Sage last season looked a little more sharp than Schaub has?

Couldn't you see how the rest of the offense seemed to have more pep in their step with Sage in there? Body language says a lot, IMO.

Did AJ, yesterday, look like he supports Schaub? Man, AJ looks like he's been scanning the NFL's classified ads. He had that trot going on out there, the "I could care" trot.

This is a pretty serious meltdown we're seeing.

Jackie Chiles
09-22-2008, 11:41 AM
But then I started noticing that he began dropping off. We still looked OK, but I noticed Schaub was slowing down. The legs looked sluggish, the footwork was gone, and he was getting touched a lot more. And he was making questionable passes.

I've been a big Schaub supporter (although not vocally on these boards) but I really think you might have hit the nail on the head there. The last two games and really since about the first two games last year if you take a step back and look at him Schaub really does look a step or two slow. Watching a guy like Peyton work against the Jags yesterday you can really see how fast his dropback is and how great his footwork is. Schaub looks like hes working in quicksand compared to Peyton who drops back with a real purpose. Also, It didn't happen so much in this game but has anyone else noticed how Schaub, when he gets some pressure in his face, will do that little Jeff Garcia move where he kinda jumps up on one foot while slightly moving backward and then throw a pass? Works for Jeff, not so much for Matt.

Anyway last year I think Matt was sacked something like 16 times and Sage maybe 5-6ish and after watching the last few games and the preseason (minus New Orleans) it looks like that is not a fluke stat. Sage, with all his faults, is absolutely fearless in the pocket. Ive seen him stand in there with guys literally hanging on him and he makes a throw like there's nothing wrong. I don't know if hes the answer because he does tend to take some really bad risks at times but right now I think hes gotta be given a shot. Even if Matt stays the starter and plays a nice game or two I'm really going to be skeptical because he has just looked so much like Carr lately I don't think I can let it go.

On the bright side its nice to see a semblance of what a true ZBS looks like. I expect the improvement there to continue, starting with less negative and zero yardage plays and we should have a nice little running game by the end of the season that we can really build on in the future.

Mr. White
09-22-2008, 11:44 AM
The problem is that the Texans as an organization are behind the curve for making decisions at NFL speed.

Look at Matt Leinart and Vince Young right now. If you don't produce on most NFL rosters, then you hold a clipboard and get an education.

The Texans are afraid that they'll hurt Schaub's feelings if they bench him. (See Carr, David.) The result is a QB that has the support of the organization, but disdain from the fans.

Groundhog Day again.

Vinny
09-22-2008, 11:55 AM
The problem is that the Texans as an organization are behind the curve for making decisions at NFL speed.

Look at Matt Leinart and Vince Young right now. If you don't produce on most NFL rosters, then you hold a clipboard and get an education.

The Texans are afraid that they'll hurt Schaub's feelings if they bench him. (See Carr, David.) The result is a QB that has the support of the organization, but disdain from the fans.

Groundhog Day again. They are too worried about marketing.

Mr teX
09-22-2008, 11:58 AM
I have heard this little snappy comeback, and it makes NO sense. It makes perfect sense b/c it's for the most part true.

People were tired of Drew Beldsoe, too, and a little boy named Tom Brady took over when Drew was injured. You think your argument is so valuable as to make it an absolute? "Well, everyone always falls in the love with the backup when the starter isn't doing well."

favre/brady are exceptions to the rule & many cases when that type of success happens, the back up is usually already understood as the air apparent... we don't have that guy here & sage has been in the league for years...compare the number of times a situation like favre/brady arose & it worked out vs. teams forced to switch qb's mid season & being successful.....yeah it's ridiculously one-sided. To sum it, how many people in carolina clamored for Carr over moore last year until they saw him play? Quinn over Anderson? even Ferotte over jackson at this point? It's not absolute, but it damn near is.

Dang straight they do. Know why? Because an anointed "starting" QB can screw up for infinity and still keep his job. Meanwhile, there's a guy on the sideline who wants to play FOOTBALL. And he is watching the starter. He is seeing what the starter is doing wrong. He wants HIS chance.

Sure they want to play but that doesn't have any bearing on whether or not he is or will be better than the starter. Furthermore, this is why teams usually carry veteran backups, b/c they are guys who know their roles as back ups. There's a reason teams will seek a vinny testaverde mid-season even though he's 40,324 yrs. old. it's b/c he's a known commodity & they know he can be a patch for a team at the qb spot.

And news flash: Sage is better than banks. Sage pretty much rescued last year's season, btw. Gloss it over all you want, but the backup QB on this team has been pushing for the job since midway through last season.

Sage might be better, but i believe it's a very negligle advantage in his favor over what banks was....i.e. not enough to make a huge difference on our team. you forget, banks was decent in STL & then Fairly marginal in Baltimore. outside of a couple of starts for us at the end of last season, where he looked OK, what has sage done to think that he's so much better than banks at this point? nothing. again, there is a reason the guy has been a back up his whole career.

Kerry Collins looked Ok yesterday, but I guess Titans fans weren't hoping for VY's benching for awhile, right? Wrong.
Ok now you just look stupid. Collins is a very accomplished vet who has led a team to the superbowl. He himself has acknowledged that he's at the end so this "waiting for his chance to play is garbage. Plus, if VY wasn't hurt, he'd be starting. Lastly, if you go to the titans MB there are some that were clamoring for Collins, b/c of his veteran prescence.

This is about Texans fans not wanting to feel that people think we were stupid for the Schaub trade. And guess what? We DO look stupid. Atlanta isn't missing a beat with Matt Schaub, and in fact they look pretty doggone good with a rookie in there.

I doubt you were saying this after the carolina game last year when schaub looked pretty good...exactly 2 games into the season just like we are now. We made a move, it doesn't look good now, but neither did the mario pick after his rookie year. In any case, it still doesn't mean we win either of these 2 games if sage was starting at qb b/c last i checked he doesn't play defense.

face it, guys: We gambled on Schaub and it's a bust. It cost us TWO 2nd rounders that would probably be starting on two spots on our team. So figure out exactly where we'd need those guys right now...well, we can take our pick since this team IS devoid of enough "starting" talent in order to compete with the other teams.

True

This season was ripe for the picking, IMO, in our division. We could have beaten Titans yesterday, but bad game management by Kubiak coupled with awful QB play from Schaub sealed our fate. Even Richard Smith looked like he was running laps around Kubiak's offense yesterday.

i don't know what game you were watching yesterday, but Richard Smith's defense looked like the same ol'. no pass rush, 400 yd. cb cushions etc. he did nothing that says he knows what the hell he was doing.

I am sick and tired of the Sage bashing. With the way Schaub is playing, and HAS played since midway of last season, there's really no justification for the amount of blind support that Schaub has been given. None.

LOL. I just keep watching these games, wondering when the Schaub balloon is finally going to burst. People here said he needed a year under his belt, he'd get conditioned over the off-season, and he'd look better and he'd be able to carry a full load. He looks worse through these two games than at any other point last year. It's a REGRESSION, folks.

Oh, and I also said over the summer THIS: Texans fans on this board are going to be screaming for another QB in the off-season of 2009...we're going to see people begging for a QB draftee like we saw people begging for an OL draftee for so long.

Slaton might cut it at RB if he keeps this up. But the QB position, even with Sage in there, is not a good place to be in. Here's another of my lines that people will recognize: "We have TWO backup QBs who are trying to become the starter for this team. We don't have a 'starter' here. Do we?"

Go Texans! I ain't leaving. Too much invested to drop out now. But I think our HC could do a lot better than using the standard behavior of propping up bad QB play for extended periods of time. He needs to cherish his job more, and get going on trying different QBs out for the gig.

The only good news that happened Sunday is that Slaton might actually be able to hack it at RB. That SPEED was hellish yesterday, and that's something DD never had. So maybe that makes it easier for Kubiak to look at making a tweak at QB. He's got RB solidified a little bit now.

You said all this about schaub & then say we're solidfied at RB with slaton after 1 good game. that's something that doesn't make much sense.

Texans_Chick
09-22-2008, 12:14 PM
Did you watch the Dallas vs GB game last night ?


The difference between Schaub and the QB's from that game is mobility and the ability do do something when protection breaks down...

When has Schaub EVER done that ? When has Schaub ever performed against a tough, physical defense?

Every QB gets hit and gets licks put on them...

Actually, Aaron Rodgers looked okay until the game got away from Green Bay and they were forced to get more pass oriented. Then he started getting killed, holding the ball too long, footwork breaking down.

Romo looked shaky at times, so wonky that at some point Cowboy fans must have been hoping he would throw the ball less and that they would keep running it. He does better with bombs than when in the red zone and throwing into traffic.

Both of those teams have pretty effective running games when the games are close. The Cowboys use their running game to get a lead and then allow their defense to pin their ears back more.

Polo
09-22-2008, 12:19 PM
Actually, Aaron Rodgers looked okay until the game got away from Green Bay and they were forced to get more pass oriented. Then he started getting killed, holding the ball too long, footwork breaking down.

Romo looked shaky at times, so wonky that at some point Cowboy fans must have been hoping he would throw the ball less and that they would keep running it.

At no point in time did Romo or Rodgers look as inept as Schaub.

Evaluating the whole game and not just when they started passing a lot, both of those QB's (and most good QB's around the leauge) can make plays when things break down around them...

How often has Schaub done that?

And IMO, Rodgers looked pretty good all night...Plenty of times he should have been sacked but craftily avoided it...No he didn't always make the best throws but 1) the Cowboys had good coverage on the recievers 2) He atleast gave his team a chance with his ability to make plays when things broke down

He does better with bombs than when in the red zone and throwing into traffic.

I'd venture to say most QB's do.

Schaub isn't the self sacking fool David Carr was, but he doesn't play much better under pressure. At this point it's only been a slight upgrade.

Ole Miss Texan
09-22-2008, 12:26 PM
Well here are some good plays. Nice to watch in these tough football times.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2h3aanskqcY

Double Barrel
09-22-2008, 12:30 PM
We got out-coached and out-played yesterday.

I'm not particular happy with Schaub, but he did nail some WRs who just failed at their jobs. AJ and Walter's endzone catches would have changed the entire nature of this discussion.

But Schaub does not look like the long-term solution. Too many times I was having flashbacks of no. 8. He's not a QB that can overcome weak blocking and failed protection. And he's obviously not a QB that demands better from his skill positions. He should have been in AJ's face after that second drop. He should have been screaming mad. But he just looked lost, overwhelmed, and really like he didn't want to be there. We've seen the look before. It's what "nice guys" do when the chips are down.

I'm not going to pin this loss on one man, though. Kubiak just blew some calls. The coaching staff seems lost and unable to prepare this team. Our players, with few exceptions, lack the pride needed to refuse to lose. It's another pathetic product from this organization. And I have a hard time keeping my passion as a fanatic for this team. They are consistent in one area, that is under-achieving and looking lousy week in/week out. It was a tough loss to watch, yet again.

We've still got 14 games left, though. So let's hope they nut up and show us what they can really be about. Otherwise, it's going to be another long, crappy season.

p.s. I'm just venting and have no desire to argue about things. It's all perspective at the end of the day. I was just having deja vu too many times to count during the game yesterday.

Mr teX
09-22-2008, 12:35 PM
We got out-coached and out-played yesterday.

I'm not particular happy with Schaub, but he did nail some WRs who just failed at their jobs. AJ and Walter's endzone catches would have changed the entire nature of this discussion.

But Schaub does not look like the long-term solution. Too many times I was having flashbacks of no. 8. He's not a QB that can overcome weak blocking and failed protection. And he's obviously not a QB that demands better from his skill positions. He should have been in AJ's face after that second drop. He should have been screaming mad. But he just looked lost, overwhelmed, and really like he didn't want to be there. We've seen the look before. It's what "nice guys" do when the chips are down.

I'm not going to pin this loss on one man, though. Kubiak just blew some calls. The coaching staff seems lost and unable to prepare this team. Our players, with few exceptions, lack the pride needed to refuse to lose. It's another pathetic product from this organization. And I have a hard time keeping my passion as a fanatic for this team. They are consistent in one area, that is under-achieving and looking lousy week in/week out. It was a tough loss to watch, yet again.

We've still got 14 games left, though. So let's hope they nut up and show us what they can really be about. Otherwise, it's going to be another long, crappy season.

p.s. I'm just venting and have no desire to argue about things. It's all perspective at the end of the day. I was just having deja vu too many times to count during the game yesterday.


this is what everyone should be concerned with here. Too many times during his tenure have our players just looked like they didn't know what was going on . taking too long to adjust, questionable playcalling are starting to become too commonplace with this regime.

Polo
09-22-2008, 12:37 PM
Schaub isn't the self sacking fool David Carr was, but he doesn't play much better under pressure. At this point it's only been a slight upgrade.

Norg
09-22-2008, 01:40 PM
Hmm thats why i was thinking over a good night sleep we need to stick with Matt till the ship sinks if we go 0-8 then yes the ship has sunk and we need to bring in sage


That should be the gameplan and iam sticking to that

GP
09-22-2008, 03:04 PM
I've been a big Schaub supporter (although not vocally on these boards) but I really think you might have hit the nail on the head there. The last two games and really since about the first two games last year if you take a step back and look at him Schaub really does look a step or two slow. Watching a guy like Peyton work against the Jags yesterday you can really see how fast his dropback is and how great his footwork is. Schaub looks like hes working in quicksand compared to Peyton who drops back with a real purpose.

Well, at least you are able to be objective about it.

Others here are still doing the ostrich thang (sticking their head in the ground) and act like it's complete foolishness to try another QB.

I'm all about winning. You guys want to STOP being a loser? Then quit acting like we need 3-5 years to reallllly evaluate ANYBODY. First year, Schaub got dinged up...OK, let him another year at it. Well, two games into the season and he looks as bad as he did when he got dinged up.

I don't care about being right all the time (because I'm not) but I stuck with David Carr long enough, defending him and then finally realizing in the first few weeks of his last season that I was definitely wrong about my support for him. I've just got ZERO use for a person who thinks we should stick with an "anointed QB" just because he's "the starter." Been there, done that.

Big friggin' whoop if Matt Schaub and the cost of two 2nd rounders equals failure for the deal. I know that a HC has to be careful to NOT yank the starter too quickly, otherwise people feel like each mistake they make is going to send them to Siberia. I "get" that. So maybe Schaub gets the Jags game to regain "it."

But folks, "it" seems to have been slowly wearing off since week 1, 2 and 3 of last season for Matt Schaub. Just don't think the guy is physically talented enough to withstand the rigors of the position. Nice guy and all, but the marketing aspect of this team is killing us in the standings.

GP
09-22-2008, 03:08 PM
Hmm thats why i was thinking over a good night sleep we need to stick with Matt till the ship sinks if we go 0-8 then yes the ship has sunk and we need to bring in sage


That should be the gameplan and iam sticking to that

0-8? Seriously?

Did I miss the sarcasm smiley somewhere in your post?

0-8 means Kubiak's job, to me. And at this point, I'm beginning to think like Second Honeymoon: Go get The Chin. Now.

If Kubiak can't pull himself away from a QB gamble that busted...then this team is sunk. And the captain goes down with the ship, IMO.

Texans_Chick
09-22-2008, 03:54 PM
Well, at least you are able to be objective about it.

Others here are still doing the ostrich thang (sticking their head in the ground) and act like it's complete foolishness to try another QB.

I'm all about winning. You guys want to STOP being a loser? Then quit acting like we need 3-5 years to reallllly evaluate ANYBODY. First year, Schaub got dinged up...OK, let him another year at it. Well, two games into the season and he looks as bad as he did when he got dinged up.

I don't care about being right all the time (because I'm not) but I stuck with David Carr long enough, defending him and then finally realizing in the first few weeks of his last season that I was definitely wrong about my support for him. I've just got ZERO use for a person who thinks we should stick with an "anointed QB" just because he's "the starter." Been there, done that.

Big friggin' whoop if Matt Schaub and the cost of two 2nd rounders equals failure for the deal. I know that a HC has to be careful to NOT yank the starter too quickly, otherwise people feel like each mistake they make is going to send them to Siberia. I "get" that. So maybe Schaub gets the Jags game to regain "it."

But folks, "it" seems to have been slowly wearing off since week 1, 2 and 3 of last season for Matt Schaub. Just don't think the guy is physically talented enough to withstand the rigors of the position. Nice guy and all, but the marketing aspect of this team is killing us in the standings.

Me personally, I am not afraid to try another QB. And I don't think Kubiak is doing squat due to marketing reasons. I really believe that as a QB he knows that all QBs have ups and downs especially when other parts of the offense are stinking too.

I didn't buy this whole Texans in the playoffs bit, or the whole Richard Justice, "finally this is a team that doesn't have any glaring weaknesses." If you still are working out the details of your line play and playing musical chairs at running back and your #1 WR/your best playmaker is coming off of surgery and a separate injury, you have a bunch of issues that you are going to have to work out.

And I saw this schedule coming out with all these fat defensive lines on the road and the Texans mostly reconstructed offense ZBS line and pretty much knew that the start of this season could be ugly. In combination with the Texans being an awful road team. And that by the time October rolled around, they would be lucky for fans not to be totally disgusted.

This is an offense that has looked better with worse running back play. Either Schaub is going to get his head on straight, or Kubiak will replace him. But I think Kubiak is going to make sure that he gives Schaub a better chance to succeed because he has seen better play from him.

This is a team that has needed some breaks. And have received few.

GP
09-22-2008, 04:10 PM
Me personally, I am not afraid to try another QB. And I don't think Kubiak is doing squat due to marketing reasons. I really believe that as a QB he knows that all QBs have ups and downs especially when other parts of the offense are stinking too.

I didn't buy this whole Texans in the playoffs bit, or the whole Richard Justice, "finally this is a team that doesn't have any glaring weaknesses." If you still are working out the details of your line play and playing musical chairs at running back and your #1 WR/your best playmaker is coming off of surgery and a separate injury, you have a bunch of issues that you are going to have to work out.

And I saw this schedule coming out with all these fat defensive lines on the road and the Texans mostly reconstructed offense ZBS line and pretty much knew that the start of this season could be ugly. In combination with the Texans being an awful road team. And that by the time October rolled around, they would be lucky for fans not to be totally disgusted.

This is an offense that has looked better with worse running back play. Either Schaub is going to get his head on straight, or Kubiak will replace him. But I think Kubiak is going to make sure that he gives Schaub a better chance to succeed because he has seen better play from him.

This is a team that has needed some breaks. And have received few.

Schedule was definitely a bad break. I agree on that one.

But how many times does Sage have to come in, get the job done, and then get knocked because of all these weird factors and stats that somehow show Schaub is "better" in one way or another?

Look at the wins and losses. Look at the team as a whole. Has it looked better under Schaub? I say "No."

Neither of these guys are world beaters.

We're in need of a QB who fits the bill. But right now, I'd rather see Sage in there than Schaub. I felt that way last season when it was fake-announced that Schaub might be able to play the last few games, and these two games are not really encouraging for those who think Schaub has "it" but just needs time to collect himself and get steady again.

I don't think he's hurt. I just think he's slow. He talks slow, he looks slow, and his footwork and drop are tremendously slow. The rushers have such a great chance of reaching him no matter how well our oline is blocking.

This is a nightmare, ladies and gents.

Texan_Bill
09-22-2008, 04:11 PM
Me personally, I am not afraid to try another QB. And I don't think Kubiak is doing squat due to marketing reasons. I really believe that as a QB he knows that all QBs have ups and downs especially when other parts of the offense are stinking too.

I didn't buy this whole Texans in the playoffs bit, or the whole Richard Justice, "finally this is a team that doesn't have any glaring weaknesses." If you still are working out the details of your line play and playing musical chairs at running back and your #1 WR/your best playmaker is coming off of surgery and a separate injury, you have a bunch of issues that you are going to have to work out.

And I saw this schedule coming out with all these fat defensive lines on the road and the Texans mostly reconstructed offense ZBS line and pretty much knew that the start of this season could be ugly. In combination with the Texans being an awful road team. And that by the time October rolled around, they would be lucky for fans not to be totally disgusted.

This is an offense that has looked better with worse running back play. Either Schaub is going to get his head on straight, or Kubiak will replace him. But I think Kubiak is going to make sure that he gives Schaub a better chance to succeed because he has seen better play from him.

This is a team that has needed some breaks. And have received few.

:secret: Shhhhh.. Carefull with the Dickie reference. He may think you're stalking him... Other than I agree - 100%.

bigfan77801
09-22-2008, 04:33 PM
I say give Schaub the 1st half of the Jags game, if he stinks yank him, if i doesn't let him play

Texans_Chick
09-22-2008, 04:37 PM
Schedule was definitely a bad break. I agree on that one.

But how many times does Sage have to come in, get the job done, and then get knocked because of all these weird factors and stats that somehow show Schaub is "better" in one way or another?

Look at the wins and losses. Look at the team as a whole. Has it looked better under Schaub? I say "No."

Neither of these guys are world beaters.

We're in need of a QB who fits the bill. But right now, I'd rather see Sage in there than Schaub. I felt that way last season when it was fake-announced that Schaub might be able to play the last few games, and these two games are not really encouraging for those who think Schaub has "it" but just needs time to collect himself and get steady again.

I don't think he's hurt. I just think he's slow. He talks slow, he looks slow, and his footwork and drop are tremendously slow. The rushers have such a great chance of reaching him no matter how well our oline is blocking.

This is a nightmare, ladies and gents.

The nightmare is that both of the QB's are not It.

Sage did not look good on the road against the Colts at the end of the season. On the road. With Andre Johnson in the lineup. Just saying.

The Texans are a bad road team, no matter who is the quarterback, until they prove differently.

Double Barrel
09-22-2008, 04:45 PM
The nightmare is that both of the QB's are not It.

That, and the fact that so much was given to obtain the starting QB. Losing two 2nd round picks hurts a team that has so many holes, especially given the fact that Rick Smith probably would've drafted starters with those two picks.

Speedy
09-22-2008, 05:19 PM
Last time I checked Sage could get his 3 INT game on too. Twice last season, and only 3 games did he throw more TD's than INT's.

I think it's a little too early to say the Schaub deal was a bust, and it may very well be, but Sage Rosenfels isn't the answer either.

Yesterday, everybody not named Steve Slaton had a bad game, including the coaches. If AJ catches the damn ball then Schaub looks that much better.

The QB position played a roll in the loss yesterday no doubt, but if a few others didn't have a crap game as well, they very much could have gotten out of there with a W.

GP
09-22-2008, 09:12 PM
I say give Schaub the 1st half of the Jags game, if he stinks yank him, if i doesn't let him play

So Sage has a 21-3 deficit to overcome?

That's becoming a familiar sight. And not very fair to a guy who was 4-1 as a starter last season.

Matt Schaub is the reason Sage Rosenfels did not DEMAND a trade after last season. I think he knew he'd have another shot at it. Interceptions be damned, Sage seems to be grooving in Kubiak's offense well enough to give us a better shot at wins than Schaub has. But, Sage is a journeyman QB who has had his shot and failed...oh, like Kerry Collins who managed OK on Sunday vs. us.

And again: Neither guy is a guy who has that "it" factor that suddenly springs a team to a 10-6 record out of nowhere...but one guy is definitely not getting it done right now, and a change is needed. I don't know why Kubiak doesn't just sit Matt down and tell him he needs to take a breather.

bigfan77801
09-22-2008, 09:47 PM
If Sage is so good that he deserves to be the starter then that deficit is not impossible to overcome. After all isn't he the one who led the 4th quarter comeback in the 2nd Tacks game? If he isn't that good whom do you see starting? I just want this team to win some games and shut up the haters.

J-Russ
09-22-2008, 10:01 PM
Some good stuff from the Z report.... (http://blogs.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2008/09/post_62.html)

About letting go Schaub after this season:

If you cut or traded him, it would cause a cap hit of just over 1 million, but he has a salary of 6.95 million due next year so you would actually save money. In fact, Schaub has an option bonus of 10 million dollars due in March of 2010 so the Texans will want to get him figured out way before then. Clearly that was put in place in order to redo the deal. Bad move by Schaub's agent and good move by the Texans it looks like.

anddd...

As for grooming a QB, they would absolutely look for one. Keep in mind that Sage is a free agent after this year. I'll go over a list of top prospects here pretty quickly.

I'm not sure, but people have said Sage is still on contract until after the '09... so which one is it, FA in '08 or '09? And yea I agree on drafting a QB to groom.

Nighthawk
09-23-2008, 12:49 AM
I don't think Rosenfels is any better than Commander Cody Carelson and I'm comming to the conclusion that Schaub isn't any better than Rosenfels.....um, so that means we really don't have a starting QB, just a couple of good reserves.

Oh good Christ, Schaub is LESS GOOD than Rosenfels, and time will make this evident to those to whom it is not yet evident. And don't bring Cody Carlson in here, he was nowhere near as good as either of these two--he was a wonderful kid and all that, but way less than mediocre.

Sage is the Texans QB who gives us the best chance to win. Period. He's already proven that. All it takes now is for our thick-headed mouth-breather of a coach to realize winning with Sage is better than losing with his pride and joy boy Schaub.

CloakNNNdagger
09-23-2008, 11:29 AM
I don't think Rosenfels is any better than Commander Cody Carelson and I'm comming to the conclusion that Schaub isn't any better than Rosenfels.....um, so that means we really don't have a starting QB, just a couple of good reserves.

Vinny I don't know that I can share your feelings on Rosenfels. But I would have to question if Schaub can at this point even be considered a "good reserve."

Texecutioner
09-23-2008, 01:10 PM
OK, here I go again:

Last year, Schaub's pocket awareness, in-the-pocket mobility, and just his overall "zip" in his legs and his arm was GREAT in week one. We had sports media analysts saying "Hey, that was a smart move by the Texans."

But then I started noticing that he began dropping off. We still looked OK, but I noticed Schaub was slowing down. The legs looked sluggish, the footwork was gone, and he was getting touched a lot more. And he was making questionable passes. I still say that the Carolina game last season was a factor of our special teams more than Schaub's comeback abilities.

Well, I also was not fan of Schaub's red zone abilities. He seemed to move the ball well, between the 20s, but he just sort of "breaks down" mentally AND physically when we sniff paydirt. You can see it. It's not hard to notice it.

I got hammered for stating all this, getting heckled for it by the great fans here on this board. Everybody feels this overwhelming need to ridicule those who don't drink the Kool Aid on the QB situation (of all things). I think a lot of it is because we don't admit that we BLEW two consecutive 2nd rounders, and possibly two or three years of our lives on a guy that just HAS to be better than David Carr. So, a lot of people want to keep eating (insert your favorite word for it here) just for the sake of convincing themselves that things are going to be OK.

Here's a line that you'' recognize as one of mine: Matt Schaub will NOT become the QB that he was expected to be. Why? Because while he was "some" skills that suit the WCO, he is not athletic enough to survive the hits that ALL NFL QBs are going to take from time to time.

The legs look like he's running in a sandbox, the footwork is bad, and he doesn't deal with the pressure good enough. I've seen him make some good bail-outs, but that was last season in the first 1-3 games.

But, he DOES call all his teammates and get into touch with them. So he's got THAT going for him.

Look, he's a nicer guy (all around) than Carr ever was and will be. He stopped the bleeding that Carr started. But when I saw Schaub mouthing at Kubiak on the sideline, I think we just saw two guys who might be in a little over the heads here...trying to point the finger at the other.

Going to be interesting to see how long it takes Kubiak to try something different than what's NOT working and HASN'T been working since about week 3 of last year. Schaub was awful yesterday.

The Titans fans know it, and Haynesworth knows it. They love to see Schaub in the game like we used to love to see Byron Leftwich in the game. And when that "bad QB gravy train" stops...it's funny how things get eerily silent from the opposing fans. It's a "Oh, crap...they figured it out..." sort of silence.

Kubiak? Don't get me started on that issue. He doesn't understand simple math:

Titans 24
Texans 12

12 + 3 = 15

15 + 3 = 18

18 + 6 = 24

24 + 1 = 25

25 = We win.

We should have kicked two field goals, and then we could have had more pressure on the Titans as we try to score the TD with 2 minutes left. Kris is just begging for those opportunities. It seemed so simple, to me, at the time. KICK THE FIELD GOAL. There's a ton of time left in the game to do it. And "No," this is not me looking back on it all. I was saying this from the very first 4th down effort that failed. "WHAT?!? No, no. no no. NO!!! Take the points! We can do this!"

(Sigh)

If Kubiak likes being a head coach in Houston, he better stop playing footsy with Schaub and go ahead and let him have a breather--Put in Sage vs. Jags. Say that Schaub has bruided ribs. It ain't like it'd be the first time Kubiak lied about an injury before...

But someone else is right: He's going to lose this TEAM if he doesn't try Sage. I think AJ's body language said it all: "Another dopey QB...again." AJ wasn't acting like he cared out there. Period. And who can blame him? He'd be on a playoff team if he wasn't HERE. I think AJ is one breath away from saying he wants out. He looked like he had just learned somebody in his family died yesterday. No emotion. No quickness when he broke for the ball on his routes. Not even upset when he dropped a ball or whatever. He just looked like a zombie out there.

I think AJ is sending that signal to Kubiak, IMO.

Um, you're not alone in this. I've said that Kubiak won't be the guy to take this team out of the cellar since the end of season one with him. His play calling has been bad from the start.

Kubiak is the one that said he could win with Carr. That didn't work.

Kubiak is the guy that wanted Shaub so badly and felt the need to give up so much for him. Then him and Smith thought a back up that had proven nothing was worth a 48 Million dollar contract.

Kubiak is the guy that has had poor play calling every season with his constant run plays on 3rd and long. God, I remember the booo's the last two season when he continually did that.

The funny thing is how all of these Texans Homers immediately thought Kubiak was all of a sudden THE GUY just because he was hired, and because he was the hot name at the moment. The homers completely disregarded the fact that he had never been a head coach yet, and hadn't proven anything, but he was sooooo great right?

Oh, and lets not forget how many swore our running game was about to become one of the best in the NFL once he got here. Boy has that been wrong.

Oh, and Kubiak wouldn't let Shaub and Sage even compete for the job. Two career back ups?? Give me a break!

Now he still won't start Sage who at this point has proven that he can play better when given his chances after watching the first two games. How many INT's has shaub thrown thus far? I've lost count.

Oh, and remember when some people thought Sage should get his shot when Carr was here, but they didn't want to pull Carr either. Yeah that David Carr loyalty worked out well didn't it?

I remember before the season in here if you would have even mentioned a negative criticism of Kubiak you would get flamed in here by so many homers and pumpers. Boy how some things change so fast.

I'm sure will have Kubiak for one more year after this, because Mcnair is so loyal to anyone he hires and winning isn't everything to him like it is to other owners, so hopefully Kubiak will turn it around, but I sure as hell won't hold my breath or have any confidence in him with the decisions he has made. I still have yet to see what Kubiak's strengths are as a coach and what kind of identity he has tried to put forth for this team. It looks like the same team when Kubiak first got here. No surprise to me.

Texans_Chick
09-23-2008, 01:57 PM
Um, you're not alone in this. I've said that Kubiak won't be the guy to take this team out of the cellar since the end of season one with him. His play calling has been bad from the start.

Kubiak is the one that said he could win with Carr. That didn't work.

Kubiak is the guy that wanted Shaub so badly and felt the need to give up so much for him. Then him and Smith thought a back up that had proven nothing was worth a 48 Million dollar contract.

Kubiak is the guy that has had poor play calling every season with his constant run plays on 3rd and long. God, I remember the booo's the last two season when he continually did that.

The funny thing is how all of these Texans Homers immediately thought Kubiak was all of a sudden THE GUY just because he was hired, and because he was the hot name at the moment. The homers completely disregarded the fact that he had never been a head coach yet, and hadn't proven anything, but he was sooooo great right?

Oh, and lets not forget how many swore our running game was about to become one of the best in the NFL once he got here. Boy has that been wrong.

Oh, and Kubiak wouldn't let Shaub and Sage even compete for the job. Two career back ups?? Give me a break!

Now he still won't start Sage who at this point has proven that he can play better when given his chances after watching the first two games. How many INT's has shaub thrown thus far? I've lost count.

Oh, and remember when some people thought Sage should get his shot when Carr was here, but they didn't want to pull Carr either. Yeah that David Carr loyalty worked out well didn't it?

I remember before the season in here if you would have even mentioned a negative criticism of Kubiak you would get flamed in here by so many homers and pumpers. Boy how some things change so fast.

I'm sure will have Kubiak for one more year after this, because Mcnair is so loyal to anyone he hires and winning isn't everything to him like it is to other owners, so hopefully Kubiak will turn it around, but I sure as hell won't hold my breath or have any confidence in him with the decisions he has made. I still have yet to see what Kubiak's strengths are as a coach and what kind of identity he has tried to put forth for this team. It looks like the same team when Kubiak first got here. No surprise to me.

Some thoughts:

1. Who should the Texans have gotten at QB at the end of 2006?

2. Carr's extension was due right at the time Kubiak was hired. McNair's consultant, Dan Reeves said Carr wasn't the problem. Most of the 2005 tape was unusuable of Carr. The beginning of 2004 had some good tape. Kubiak had no time to learn that Carr was a nicklehead because he couldn't work with him before he was hired. And he wasn't around to learn that Carr had already lost the locker room. I don't put the Carr not being fixable on Kubiak--there was so much screwed up with the Pendry/Palmer offense that Carr's screwups were mixed with everything else.

3. Which coach did you prefer at the end of 2005? (who would actually consider coming to the Texans' situation).

4. Kubiak did pull Carr in a game and replaced him with Sage. Sage would have very likely finished the 2007 season had he not got hurt in a fluke play. I expect if Schaub continues to be a bonehead, he will get replaced too. Once you ring the replace the QB bell, it is hard to unring it. Personally, if we see the Sage experience again, I bet it is due to injury to Schaub. I think Schaub will get his mojo back enough to keep his job.

5. I think one of the reasons why Kubiak has been so protective of his quarterbacks is that he has done them few favors with the running game.

6. I think that at a minimum, if you are criticizing the QB play, you should attempt to spell that QB's name correctly as it takes away from your credibility.

Texan JBZ
09-23-2008, 02:07 PM
Very good comments by all you guys (and gals) who have posted. Let's put aside the Kubiak and Schaub bashing for a second and answer this question. If Sage does start for the Texans, but nothing changes because he plays poor also, then what? Does Kubes decide to stick with him when Schaub is on the bench getting paid a ton of money? Does he put Schaub back in and hope that his psyche is still in good shape? Do the Texans just play out the remainder of the season with both QBs struggling and draft another with a high draft choice? Oorrrrrr, does Bob McNice finally take a chance and roll the dice on Mike Vick....

Honoring Earl 34
09-23-2008, 02:13 PM
5. I think one of the reasons why Kubiak has been so protective of his quarterbacks is that he has done them few favors with the running game.


I think he's protective of the QBs because he endorsed this one and gave up alot of money and draft picks and he's supposed to be the expert .

I think TC was right before the season started . She was skeptical and I thought she was being ... well ... kinda like having cold feet before the season started . Now she is being calm and reasonable and we ( me included ) want to burn the barn to kill the rats ( what movie was that out of ) .

I'm so letdown by our back to the future football and having cowboy fans letting me have it ... it irks me . At least VY spit the bit and we don't have to hear from that sector .

Texecutioner
09-23-2008, 03:14 PM
Some thoughts:

1. Who should the Texans have gotten at QB at the end of 2006?

2. Carr's extension was due right at the time Kubiak was hired. McNair's consultant, Dan Reeves said Carr wasn't the problem. Most of the 2005 tape was unusuable of Carr. The beginning of 2004 had some good tape. Kubiak had no time to learn that Carr was a nicklehead because he couldn't work with him before he was hired. And he wasn't around to learn that Carr had already lost the locker room. I don't put the Carr not being fixable on Kubiak--there was so much screwed up with the Pendry/Palmer offense that Carr's screwups were mixed with everything else.

3. Which coach did you prefer at the end of 2005? (who would actually consider coming to the Texans' situation).

4. Kubiak did pull Carr in a game and replaced him with Sage. Sage would have very likely finished the 2007 season had he not got hurt in a fluke play. I expect if Schaub continues to be a bonehead, he will get replaced too. Once you ring the replace the QB bell, it is hard to unring it. Personally, if we see the Sage experience again, I bet it is due to injury to Schaub. I think Schaub will get his mojo back enough to keep his job.

5. I think one of the reasons why Kubiak has been so protective of his quarterbacks is that he has done them few favors with the running game.

6. I think that at a minimum, if you are criticizing the QB play, you should attempt to spell that QB's name correctly as it takes away from your credibility.


1. Good question? I can't remember who was all available at the time. I didn't think that Matt was really a bad guy to give a shot at, but I certainly was not happy with what we gave up for him. 2 2nd round PICKS and moving our 8th to 10th pick??? Really? For an unproven back up? A 48 Million dollar contract for an unproven back up? Matt wasn't a bad guy to go after like I said, but we gave up way to much for an unproven guy. We could have waited and given Sage a shot for at least one season. Sage had shown some promise, and yes he was unproven also but at least we would have had him along with 2 2nd round draft picks that we desperately needed.

And make no mistake about it, we would have had JAKE PLUMMER had Kubiak gotten his way. That would have been probably just as bad, and I was just waiting to pick up the paper and read that Plummer was on a plan to Houston.


2, 3, & 4. I never thought Kubiak was a bad hire at the time. I was all for it. However, I approached my opinion with CAUTION. Good coaches in the NFL are hard to find, so I don't believe in just giving any NEW GUY in town a long leash unless he's earned a great reputation as a HEAD COACH and been successful in this league as a head coach, and not just some coordinator. I wasn't one of the ones that thought he was the guy to take them to the promised land just because he was our new head coach and because I was so happy to get rid of Capers. That is homer thinking at it's best. All we know is that Kubiak said that he could win with Carr. Now, maybe he said that because he thought that was how he could get the job or maybe he really thought Carr was a great QB. We don't know. We just know what his statement was, and off of that statement, he was WRONG.


5. Maybe you're right. However, this is the thing that bothers me about Kubiak the most. I don't care what anyone says now, I heard from numerous folks all about how our running game was going to instantly turn around with this guy from Denver and what an OFFENSIVE GENIUS he was and blah blah blah. Our running game has seen it's worst years under Kubiak, and the entire offense is predicated on the SUCCESS of the running game. How does this system work when you don't have a good RB, and your O line is not so hot??? The whole scheme for this team offensively seemed doomed from the start. Remember everyone raving about Wali Lundy and Morency all because Kubiak and his new system was here and how even the no name guys like these two were going to look like every Denver RB that has had success? Yeah, I remember getting cursed at for not buying into that false hope. Then Ron Diggity Dayne Train? Another Denver hopeful! Yeah, that was pretty bad. Amaan Green and Chris brown? Kubiak has failed this team miserably when it comes to his running system and the backs he chooses to make his system what it is. He feels that pounding the ball despite your lack of running game is going to set up the Play Action pass. Well it does sometimes, but I'm still trying to find this great running game that Kubiak was supposed to bring to this team. That was supposed to be his strength. That and his so called great knowledge and expertise with QB's. So far we haven't seen any of this and we're approaching year 3 looking like capers is still here.


6. Yeah, I guess I spelled Schaub incorrectly. Wow! I can't win any spelling bees especially when it comes to last names. This last part takes away from your credibility with the fact that you have to use this as an argument for the QB. I haven't bashed Schaub once. I gave him constructive criticism just like I do for any team's QB. Just because he plays for the Texans doesn't mean that he's off limits to be criticized for inefficient play. He's a professional that gets paid the big bucks to either be THE GUY or be the back up. Right now he looks like the back up that he was when we got him.

GP
09-23-2008, 03:25 PM
So Sage has a 21-3 deficit to overcome?

That's becoming a familiar sight. And not very fair to a guy who was 4-1 as a starter last season.

Matt Schaub is the reason Sage Rosenfels did not DEMAND a trade after last season. I think he knew he'd have another shot at it. Interceptions be damned, Sage seems to be grooving in Kubiak's offense well enough to give us a better shot at wins than Schaub has. But, Sage is a journeyman QB who has had his shot and failed...oh, like Kerry Collins who managed OK on Sunday vs. us.

And again: Neither guy is a guy who has that "it" factor that suddenly springs a team to a 10-6 record out of nowhere...but one guy is definitely not getting it done right now, and a change is needed. I don't know why Kubiak doesn't just sit Matt down and tell him he needs to take a breather.

Gotta bump my own post since you'll be seeing HoustonFrog stalking my posts and claiming that I think "Sage is The BEST QB Ever."

I have put this disclaimer in my Schaub rants because Frog plays lawyer and tries to spin things to free his client (Schaub) of the charges.

(Sigh)

Are we any better today? I bet there's a lot of "evaluating" going on deep in the Texans complex of wise and powerful coaching wizadry.

Texan_Bill
09-23-2008, 03:33 PM
1. For an unproven back up? A 48 Million dollar contract for an unproven back up?


The deal is really worth 3 years at about $20 million. The Texans would have to pay him a $10 million dollar bonus to keep him around for the following 3 years otherwise he becomes a FA after his third season, or the 2009 season.

*EDIT*
I did mean to mention that two 2nd rounders was kind of steep though...

Texecutioner
09-23-2008, 03:45 PM
The deal is really worth 3 years at about $20 million. The Texans would have to pay him a $10 million dollar bonus to keep him around for the following 3 years otherwise he becomes a FA after his third season, or the 2009 season.

Yeah, I know the big numbers with these contracts always seem like a bit more but still pretty good money for an unproven guy. That was more on Smith than Kubiak though Bill. I was really more unhappy about what we gave up to get him.

Texan_Bill
09-23-2008, 03:48 PM
Yeah, I know the big numbers with these contracts always seem like a bit more but still pretty good money for an unproven guy. That was more on Smith than Kubiak though Bill. I was really more unhappy about what we gave up to get him.

You probably posted as I was editing mine.. I do agree about the two second rounders. That is steep. And it is true, that Smith owns this one.

Polo
09-23-2008, 03:49 PM
So passionate...

powerfuldragon
09-23-2008, 03:52 PM
If he STARTS sage in the next game, i'd be pretty damn worried. if he pulls schaub for laying an egg in the first half, i'd applaud him.