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View Full Version : Everyone in the Texans organization from top to bottom needs to be reevaluated


TexansFight
09-21-2008, 10:34 PM
Texans fans have suffered over the past 7 years in watching atrocious football. I wouldn't wish the Carr, Capers, and Casserley Axis of Evil on my worst enemy.

We literally had with Capers, Fangio, and Pendry, the most inept head coach and coaching staff in the NFL since Rich Kotite's reign of error with the Jets. Pendry's offensive scheme were laughably archaic and Capers was more conservative than RC Slocum.

What Casserley did to this franchise with his drafts and FA signings was absolutely criminally negligent and inept. I don't think he could have screwed us worse if he actually tried to do so. I don't have to go through the carnage here since we all know what was done.

Mr. Mittens IMO even under the best of circumstances would have never turned into a star. He redefined the position when it comes to poor play. No field vision, leadership, accuracy basically anything you would deem important in a QB. His only positive was that he was relatively durable.

A lot of our beleaguered fans (including myself) believed we had a pretty good QB, GM, and coach since the new regime seemed to have a clue and made incremental improvements to the horrid situation the former regime left.

Basically, I believe we were fed shit so long that once we tasted bologna we thought we finally had filet mignon. We have overrated what we have because hope is all we had and because we haven't seen winning EVER from the Texans. Let's look at the Texans from the top down with a critical eye:

1. Bob McNair - its amazing how the business and fan comfort side of things are so good compared to the mess that is football operations. McNair believes stability leads to success. I agree with that for the most part. However, that is no guarantee of success. Look at the Lions. They have inexplicably stuck with Matt Millen for all of these years. Despite, this stability the Lions are as bad as ever.

Bob, listen to me, if it becomes clear that Schaub, Kubiak, Rick Smith, and others are not the ones to lead us to the promised land make the move and get us the people who will. Don't stick with them just because that is what you think top franchises do. It's not. Don't make us languish like you did with the previous crew.

Also, please dispense with the idea that we should only have choir boys on this team. Good teams often have a few bad apples if they can play. Tank Johnson and Pacman could have helped us a lot.

Don't bet the farm and commit long term deals for those who haven't earned it (i.e. Carr's extension and Rick Smith's extension).

Finally, I think most of us would rather focus on building this team properly rather than overspend for a new "face of the franchise" like we did for Schaub.

2. Rick Smith - We have given him a lot of love and benefit of the doubt. I mean compared to the idiocy of Casserley, Rick seemed like a genius instead.

Again, while he is an improvement, If you look at his record it is merely average as a whole. His free agent signings have been disastrous. Weaver, AG, Chris Brown, Putzier, and to a lesser extent Reeves have been a big bag of nothing. The 2006 draft was good. However, Amobi is legitimately a concern now as he hasn't done jack since midseason last year. This year's draft is TBD.

The fact is this team still has gaping holes in multiple areas. This is year 3 in his reign. Rick Smith is not a great GM; a great GM would have more holes filled.

3. Kubiak and the coaching staff - Its embarrassing how bad we have been outcoached so far. Our supposedly awesome oline coach got schooled by Dick LaBeau. The playcalling in the red zone today was bone headed. Our offense has taken a step backwards. It looks like our wunderkind OC is not ready for the job.

The horrific clock mgmt and use of challenges is inexcusable. To not challenge the catch right before halftime shows a lack of organization and awareness. I don't care whose responsibility it really was to notify the HC, the buck stops with Kubiak.

Richard Smith is the opposing offenses best friend. Horrible schemes and poorly disguised blitzes are his hallmark. We don't force the issue and merely react. MW in coverage 20 yards downfield is a joke.

Not pulling an awful Schaub and putting in Sage in order to give the team a chance to win is so disappointing. That according to your own words the thought never entere your head is frightening.

On today's game alone Kubiak would have grounds to get his ass canned. Put in the best players on the field and take away playcalling from underperforming coordinators. If not, you will lose your job.

4. The players - Show some friggin pride out there. Someone stand up and become a vocal leader. We don't have great players. However, this is the easiest area to fix since our problems are systemic.

5. Pro scouting and medical staff - heads need to roll here because the acquisitions of Weaver, AG, Chris Brown, etc. should never have been greenlighted. We seem to hold out hope for injured players in a far greater manner than other teams. Why did the team hold on to Charles Spencer for so long despite clearly having a career threatening injury that wasn't getting better and which was made worse by his lack of commitment to rehab.

Our coaches and GM seem to get assurances that certain players will get healthy. We go into the offseason thinking those areas will be ok and address other areas. When these players don't play we are left with gaping holes. This needs to stop now.

It kills me to say this but we look like a 5 win team at best. We are still closer to the bottom than being anywhere close to the top. Its depressing to think our only way out is to start all over again but that is the only way. Get proven established winners here (Capers an Casserley while experienced did not have a longstanding track record of success). Pay whatever it takes to get a Bill Polian- type GM and a proven winner like Marty or Cowher as coach.

TexansSeminole
09-21-2008, 10:51 PM
Not sure I have read any of your posts before but this one is fantastic.

I really don't have a whole lot to add so I will just leave it at that.

:goodpost:

Runner
09-21-2008, 10:54 PM
I found this an excellent summary. I agree performance needs to be evaluated at all levels. The time for free passes for persona or to give the new regime a chance has passed.

dtran04
09-21-2008, 10:55 PM
Man, the janitorial staff better watch out. Aramark needs to be included in the evaluation process too though. :)

Corrosion
09-21-2008, 11:03 PM
Good post TexansFight . :)

TEXANRED
09-21-2008, 11:12 PM
2. Rick Smith - We have given him a lot of love and benefit of the doubt. I mean compared to the idiocy of Casserley, Rick seemed like a genius instead.

Again, while he is an improvement, If you look at his record it is merely average as a whole. His free agent signings have been disastrous. Weaver, AG, Chris Brown, Putzier, and to a lesser extent Reeves have been a big bag of nothing. The 2006 draft was good. However, Amobi is legitimately a concern now as he hasn't done jack since midseason last year. This year's draft is TBD.

The fact is this team still has gaping holes in multiple areas. This is year 3 in his reign. Rick Smith is not a great GM; a great GM would have more holes filled.

.

For the most part I agree with your post but I totally disagree with this.

For starters Rick Smith has only been through 2 drafts. I also believe that Weaver was a casserly signing. FA comes before the draft and Casserly ran the offseason after Capers got fired.

Keep in mind that when Smith took over we were in Cap hell, still paying off Walker, Wade, Smith, and a slew of others that didn't work out.

Green was a role of the dice, and we all knew that, including Smith. Also, the way his contract was front loaded with guarantee money was a great move and now with even further restructure it was genius. Cutting Green will not cost us that much.

Chris Brown, Putzier, and others were all low tendered FA that were brought in for temp fixes that we were not able to fill in the draft. If we bring those guys up then we have to look at Maddox, Demps, Andre Davis, Dressen, Brisel, and others.

The only real mistake was Schaub. We gave up way to much for a Carr look a like.

Wolf
09-21-2008, 11:15 PM
I thought Weaver was a Casserly thing

Wolf
09-21-2008, 11:17 PM
Watching the GB-Cowboys game.. it made me sick how the front four of those two ..get after it compared to our defensive mentality

Even that 7th rounder that the Cowboys picked up last year showed push in the center of the line (forgot his name).. much more than we see from our guys

Runner
09-21-2008, 11:24 PM
I thought Weaver was a Casserly thing

If Kubiak was here it was a Kubiak signing - he had the power as soon as he arrived. It is disingenuous when the board claims that post-Kubiak pre-Smith bad signings were Casserly's and good signings were Kubiak's.

This crew hasn't done itself a lot of salary cap favors - Weaver, Moulds, Green - even Jordan Black's little $1M bonus was a total waste that was easily avoided.

Wolf
09-21-2008, 11:26 PM
If Kubiak was here it was a Kubiak signing - he had the power as soon as he arrived. It is disingenuous when the board claims that post-Kubiak pre-Smith bad signings were Casserly's and good signings were Kubiak's.

This crew hasn't done itself a lot of salary cap favors - Weaver, Moulds, Green - even Jordan Black's little $1M bonus was a total waste that was easily avoided.

I thought weaver has been here for about 3 years,but if not is sure feels like it.


edit , it was 2006 when we signed him March 12th i

http://www.uhnd.com/articles/2006/nfl-irish/former-de-anthony-weaver-signs-with-texans/

Runner
09-21-2008, 11:29 PM
I thought weaver has been here for about 3 years,but if not is sure feels like it.

From the above article:

The Texans will be converting from a 3-4 to a 4-3 defense this off-season and the signing of Weaver is the beginning of the transformation under first year head coach Gary Kubiak.

TEXANRED
09-21-2008, 11:33 PM
From the above article:

Its still not a Rick Smith signing and that is the point.

TexansFight
09-21-2008, 11:36 PM
Whenever it is a good pick in that 2006 transition year it is credited to Rick Smith and if not it is blamed for Casserley. If Casserley was the guy pulling the strings in the 2006 offseason then he should get credit for that draft.

TEXANRED
09-21-2008, 11:39 PM
If Kubiak was here it was a Kubiak signing - he had the power as soon as he arrived. It is disingenuous when the board claims that post-Kubiak pre-Smith bad signings were Casserly's and good signings were Kubiak's.

This crew hasn't done itself a lot of salary cap favors - Weaver, Moulds, Green - even Jordan Black's little $1M bonus was a total waste that was easily avoided.

All those signing were small in comparisons to throwing money at guys like Todd Wade, and Robaire Smith. Extending contracts of Seth Payne, Walker, Carr, and cutting players like Sharper, and Glen.

No one is arguing that Kubiak has not made his share of stupid decisions. We are speaking only of Smith and the types of contracts that he has been able to put together.

Even Schaubs contract is not that large. If we were to cut Schaub it would not cost us that much b/c his guarantee money is not that much.

Runner
09-21-2008, 11:39 PM
Its still not a Rick Smith signing and that is the point.

No it wasn't a Rick Smith signing.

However, Rick Smith has made some bad free agent signings. His free ride should be over by now because he shares responsibility in for the Texans. This team is under talented and he's in charge of talent.

TEXANRED
09-21-2008, 11:40 PM
Whenever it is a good pick in that 2006 transition year it is credited to Rick Smith and if not it is blamed for Casserley. If Casserley was the guy pulling the strings in the 2006 offseason then he should get credit for that draft.

He does get credit for the 2006 draft.

Wolf
09-21-2008, 11:43 PM
Whenever it is a good pick in that 2006 transition year it is credited to Rick Smith and if not it is blamed for Casserley. If Casserley was the guy pulling the strings in the 2006 offseason then he should get credit for that draft.

exactly..only thing that baffles me is how Weaver still has a job with this team (besides what it will cost to cut him).. I am sure he busts his butt every day, but for the am't of jack he is making. I wish there was more production


as my signature goes I don't know why our defense is so passive :lion: I mean yes the secondary is banged up but geeze

and maybe it is just that after watching GB-Dallas and seeing those front 4 play, it was like a whole another level... and it is a shame being of what the Texan organization has invested in our own front 4 (besides Mario)

Texans_Chick
09-21-2008, 11:47 PM
Green was a role of the dice, and we all knew that, including Smith. Also, the way his contract was front loaded with guarantee money was a great move and now with even further restructure it was genius. Cutting Green will not cost us that much.


Green's contract was a mistake. Even in foresight. This is a great article, if your definition of great is slamming your head into a wall repeatedly:

Ahmanís Rush to Texans is Downsized (http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/2008/08/ahmans-rush-to-texans-is-downsized/)

It is not surprising to think that a RB who is over 30 with a significant injury history might have some problems.

Wolf
09-21-2008, 11:47 PM
No it wasn't a Rick Smith signing.

However, Rick Smith has made some bad free agent signings. His free ride should be over by now because he shares responsibility in for the Texans. This team is under talented and he's in charge of talent.


I could see him with a season more or two before I kick the free ride thing.. Casserly overall left the Texans in a world of hurt .. I would look up the draft busts that the Texans had from 2002-2006 and see who is with the team, who is still in the NFL, and who is out of the NFL and It probably would make even Chuck Norris cry if he was a Texan fan.

with that said..there are numerous holes that are still trying to be filled..
But I am very disappointed with the team.. There seems to be no direction or identity with this team at this stage of the season

Runner
09-21-2008, 11:48 PM
No one is arguing that Kubiak has not made his share of stupid decisions. We are speaking only of Smith and the types of contracts that he has been able to put together.

Even Schaubs contract is not that large. If we were to cut Schaub it would not cost us that much b/c his guarantee money is not that much.

I don't find the $5Mish bonuses Moulds and Green signed small, especially for what they contributed to the team and the risk they were due to age/injury. Why not get a good player with that much money?

I'm just stunned that Smith still has that much teflon left on him with such an under talented team. He's in charge of talent! Why make excuses for him?

I guess it is a sign that things may be changing since "in Smithiak we trust" is no longer considered a valid response to such questions.

TEXANRED
09-21-2008, 11:49 PM
exactly..only thing that baffles me is how Weaver still has a job with this team (besides what it will cost to cut him).. I am sure he busts his butt every day, but for the am't of jack he is making. I wish there was more production


as my signature goes I don't know why our defense is so passive :lion: I mean yes the secondary is banged up but geeze

and maybe it is just that after watching GB-Dallas and seeing those front 4 play, it was like a whole another level... and it is a shame being of what the Texan organization has invested in our own front 4 (besides Mario)

Weaver, like Mario, was a move made out of necessity. Switching form the 34 to the 43 meant we did not have any DE's. The only players drafted so far for the 43 has been Williams and Amobi.

Marcus
09-21-2008, 11:55 PM
I think the board should be locked down for two whole days after every game.

Runner
09-21-2008, 11:58 PM
I think the board should be locked down for two whole days after every game.

The board is more pleasant when the sting from reality's slap in the face wears off.

LonerATO
09-22-2008, 12:07 AM
Watching the GB-Cowboys game.. it made me sick how the front four of those two ..get after it compared to our defensive mentality

Even that 7th rounder that the Cowboys picked up last year showed push in the center of the line (forgot his name).. much more than we see from our guys

you mean Jay Ratliff who used to be the NT for the boys before Tank Johnson got there. I have a feeling this team wont be a contender while Bob sits by idly. The reason those same "playoff teams" are talked about year in and year out is that they wont to win no matter what. I would love to know what Bob thinks about his staff after every loss because I don't think its about anything but money. I could be way off and wrong but thats just the way it seems every sunday.

J-Russ
09-22-2008, 12:43 AM
I think the board should be locked down for two whole days after every game.

Seriously. I can understand Kubiak, and the coaching staff, but Smith? I think we're going alittle too far here, he done ALOT more positive for our team then negative. Ok, the top FA he sign every year has been bad, but let's not forget the street FA he signed that became players for our team, and not to mention the amazing draft he had in the last two years(does 2006 count?).

leave rick smith alone....... the guy is the equivalent of daryl morey for the Texans.

TexansFight
09-22-2008, 12:57 AM
Seriously. I can understand Kubiak, and the coaching staff, but Smith? I think we're going alittle too far here, he done ALOT more positive for our team then negative. Ok, the top FA he sign every year has been bad, but let's not forget the street FA he signed that became players for our team, and not to mention the amazing draft he had in the last two years(does 2006 count?).

leave rick smith alone....... the guy is the equivalent of daryl morey for the Texans.

Daryl Morey is LEAGUES better than Rick Smith. Morey has gone out and filled the holes in the team. He maximizes value from our draft picks. His work in the last draft was pure wizadry and lead to us getting Ron Artest. We are a legit championship contender. Rick Smith hasn't gotten close to that yet. I know the Rockets were in better shape than the Texans but Morey added key pieces without giving up the core of the team. That is huge.

New_Texans
09-22-2008, 01:05 AM
Daryl Morey is LEAGUES better than Rick Smith. Morey has gone out and filled the holes in the team. He maximizes value from our draft picks. His work in the last draft was pure wizadry and lead to us getting Ron Artest. We are a legit championship contender. Rick Smith hasn't gotten close to that yet. I know the Rockets were in better shape than the Texans but Morey added key pieces without giving up the core of the team. That is huge.

Ya'll do notice that the NBA and NFL are kinda different.

J-Russ
09-22-2008, 01:12 AM
Daryl Morey is LEAGUES better than Rick Smith. Morey has gone out and filled the holes in the team.
You're trying to say that a basketball team is comparable to a football team? They have 15 guys on their squad, we have 53. He acquired a team that already had two superstars and was a playoff team, Rick Smith acquired the worst team at the moment in 2006. We had a maximum of three bright spots on our team, out of 53.

Lets do a comparsion. Two superstar on a basketball team is 2/5 of your starters. two stars and a above average player on a football team is 3/22 starters, excluding ST which is also very important.

He maximizes value from our draft picks.

And Smith hasn't? I'd even say he done a better job drafting players. Past draft for example, he traded back 8 spots and picked Duane Brown, Steve Slaton, and Dominique Barber. Two of them starting for us, and are doing a hell of a job at it.

His work in the last draft was pure wizadry and lead to us getting Ron Artest. We are a legit championship contender. Rick Smith hasn't gotten close to that yet. I know the Rockets were in better shape than the Texans but Morey added key pieces without giving up the core of the team. That is huge.

53 players to 15. Morey receive a playoff team, Smith receive the worst team in the NFL.

I'd say Morey done a better job in trades. FA, Smith pick up some key players through the wavier wire and lower signings.

J-Russ
09-22-2008, 01:16 AM
Ya'll do notice that the NBA and NFL are kinda different.

Yea I know. All I'm saying is we're lucky we have two good GM for our sports team. Smith is not the problem, he is part of the solution and is helping our team become more competitive for this league.

TexansFight
09-22-2008, 01:34 AM
You're trying to say that a basketball team is comparable to a football team? They have 15 guys on their squad, we have 53. He acquired a team that already had two superstars and was a playoff team, Rick Smith acquired the worst team at the moment in 2006. We had a maximum of three bright spots on our team, out of 53.

Lets do a comparsion. Two superstar on a basketball team is 2/5 of your starters. two stars and a above average player on a football team is 3/22 starters, excluding ST which is also very important.



And Smith hasn't? I'd even say he done a better job drafting players. Past draft for example, he traded back 8 spots and picked Duane Brown, Steve Slaton, and Dominique Barber. Two of them starting for us, and are doing a hell of a job at it.



53 players to 15. Morey receive a playoff team, Smith receive the worst team in the NFL.

I'd say Morey done a better job in trades. FA, Smith pick up some key players through the wavier wire and lower signings.

You are the one who brought Daryl Morey into this conversation by saying Rick Smith is like him. I know the sports are different, but I just wanted to show you that Morey has clearly done a better job.

TexansLucky13
09-22-2008, 01:35 AM
I don't understand how Rick Smith could even be brought up. The dude has drafted unbelievably well for this team, and aside from a few flukes in the free agency (namely Ahman), has done a pretty outstanding job overall.

I know some of you hate to hear it, but this team has more talent than ever before. Despite a number of holes, we have the personnel to win more often than not. Given, it takes more than talent to create success, and that seems to be our problem area.

steelbtexan
09-22-2008, 02:17 AM
Take all of my repTF great post

LATO I believe you are on to something we are ranked no.4 in revenue but we stink as a team.

Mr. McNair is the worst kind of CEO the kind that tells you that you have the kind of authority to do what you need to do to be sucessful but then puts restrictions on what needs to be done to be sucessful.

(Carr, signing only people who don't have a past, not willing to spend money on a big money FA ( Clements for example). This cut into the bottom line.

In todays NFL if you aren't willing to spend money in FA or willing to take a chance on FA's with a past then you are doomed to failure.

I believe the best way to build s team is through the draft but supplement the team through FA or taking a chance on 1 or 2 low character guys to fill holes.

Mr. McNair won't follow this plan because it

1. cuts into the bottom line $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

2. Doesn't follow his plan that has been sucessfull in othe businesses.

The NFL is not like other businesses because it dependes on players that grew up in disavantaged backgrounds.

This is coming from a long suffering (2003 season ticket holder).

KUBES bet the farm on Schaub lets hope he got it right.

beerlover
09-22-2008, 02:42 AM
this here thingy the Texans got going is deeper than it appears on the surface, meaning that- it was initiated years ago before the first game ever played in 2002. Its not going to help anything getting on Gary or his staff, certainly not Rick Smith who has been limited with what he can do in free agency because of the existing salary cap mess. no you have to look deeper & find something that sticks, been around awhile & directly affects the talent on the field. that would be Bobby Grier http://www.houstontexans.com/team/FrontOfficeBio.asp?front_office_id=61

several high ranking board members have mentioned his name & I'm inclined to agree it may be best for the Texans to move on tweaking the infrastructure not changing more visable Gary or Rick who I hope are here a long, long time. :tiphat:

steelbtexan
09-22-2008, 12:01 PM
BL

Why do you think Mr. McNair didn't clean house when he fired the CC regime?

He even fired the salary cap guy (Ferens) but for some reason he decided to keep Riley, Grier & Hoke around.

These are the 3 areas that need to be upgraded in the organization. The team will not improve until they make these changes.

Hoke They brought in Rhodes to help him do his job.
Riley Consistently getting whipped on the OL & DL Leads league in injuries every year.

Grier Helped put us in SC trouble during CC regime & will do the same to Smithiak if he is not fired. Name one quality FA the man has signed. The man is incompetent @ his job & need to be fired. There is only 2 reasons he has a job
1. He has helped make Mr. McNair make money.
2. He is a minority & the Texans are trying to be racially diverse in the high up FO positions.

Please make these changes in the organization Mr. McNair.

Vinny
09-22-2008, 12:27 PM
Its still not a Rick Smith signing and that is the point.
Two words: Bobby Grier (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1001580&postcount=39).

Mr. White
09-22-2008, 12:34 PM
It's time to start looking at the bottom line here.

Sean Payton and Mike McCarthy have been at their respective jobs just as long as Kubiak has been in Houston. IIRC, they took over 3 and 4 win teams the same year Kubes took over a 2 win team.

I don't think that it's too early to start expecting results.

Spike
09-22-2008, 01:20 PM
It's time to start looking at the bottom line here.

Sean Payton and Mike McCarthy have been at their respective jobs just as long as Kubiak has been in Houston. IIRC, they took over 3 and 4 win teams the same year Kubes took over a 2 win team.

I don't think that it's too early to start expecting results.

I hear you and I am as frustrated as anyone as to the performance of this team. To be fair - both the Saints and the Packers were in a significantly better position (personell wise) than the Texans after that season. Frankly, we were lucky to win 2, while both the Packers and the Saints underperformed. We have started off rough this season, but we have improved the past two seasons, while simultaneously completely turning over the roster.

I will say that the coaching the past two games has been horrible and it is worrisome. You have to give Kubes some wiggle room because he is playing some young guys - but the team just hasn't looked focused or prepared for the last two games. The quality of the oppenents and the situation at home has made for difficult situations - but the coaching staff ought to at least keep us from being blown out in the opener. I coaching decisions impacted the outcome of the game yesterday.

Porky
09-22-2008, 01:59 PM
The first post by TF was the best one I have ever read of his. AWESOME post!

Since I largely agree with his statements, let me take at least minor umbrage on one point - I think you can get talented players that aren't going to embarrass the city, the team, or it's fans. No they don't have to be choir boys, but I don't want a Michael Vick or Pacman either. They only cause distractions and divisions and you can't count on them. We could stand to relax our standards a bit, but I'm not for fielding a team team of felons either.

J-Russ
09-22-2008, 02:10 PM
You are the one who brought Daryl Morey into this conversation by saying Rick Smith is like him. I know the sports are different, but I just wanted to show you that Morey has clearly done a better job.

Yea I did, saying they're both a good gm and they both help their team. I wasn't comparing two different sports like you were.

Norg
09-22-2008, 02:37 PM
honestly i dont think Pacman could have helped us .....

Vince young and his momma naaaaa

Bush is still growing

and tank johnson is fat and old


has i look at these names all i see is problems and iam glad we didnt pick them see this is where stability is for the better

LonerATO
09-22-2008, 02:51 PM
Tank isnt old and some of these kinds of guys should get drafted I mean **** I want to win some f'ing football games

Thorn
09-22-2008, 02:59 PM
We're in the 3rd year of a rebuild under Kubiac and Smith. If we dump them now, we have to start all over again with someone elses idea of what and who they want. Not a good idea. Maybe replace the DC, but that's as far as I would go with things. I'm not in the mood for another rebuild.

We have the basic pieces in place now, we just have a few more really gaping holes to fill. And yeah, we said that last to too, but last year we were in the 2nd year of a rebuild. I would have hoped we'd be doing better by now, but ya know, losing on the road to two of the top teams in the NFL when you are certainly nothing more than average isn't the end of the world. It's really to be expected.

Vinny
09-22-2008, 03:01 PM
We're in the 3rd year of a rebuild under Kubiac and Smith. If we dump them now, we have to start all over again with someone elses idea of what and who they want. Not a good idea. Maybe replace the DC, but that's as far as I would go with things. I'm not in the mood for another rebuild.

We have the basic pieces in place now, we just have a few more really gaping holes to fill. And yeah, we said that last to too, but last year we were in the 2nd year of a rebuild. I would have hoped we'd be doing better by now, but ya know, losing on the road to two of the top teams in the NFL when you are certainly nothing more than average isn't the end of the world. It's really to be expected.
forget rebuild...I'd settle for a "build".

Honoring Earl 34
09-22-2008, 03:15 PM
We're in the 3rd year of a rebuild under Kubiac and Smith. If we dump them now, we have to start all over again with someone elses idea of what and who they want. Not a good idea. Maybe replace the DC, but that's as far as I would go with things. I'm not in the mood for another rebuild.

We have the basic pieces in place now, we just have a few more really gaping holes to fill. And yeah, we said that last to too, but last year we were in the 2nd year of a rebuild. I would have hoped we'd be doing better by now, but ya know, losing on the road to two of the top teams in the NFL when you are certainly nothing more than average isn't the end of the world. It's really to be expected.

My biggest problem is our core or building blocks ( or lack off ) . We should have at least 6 and 6 on offense and defense but we don't . It's kinda like returning letterman in highschool to build your team around . I guess the other part would be no team tradition or lore ( expectations ) to live up to .

On defense it's Ryans and Williams who are playing at a decent level ... that's it . On offense do we say Slaton ... who else . AJ should be there but he was'nt yesterday .

The question would be ... are the rest of these guys talented and badly coached ? Are they just not talented and badly scouted or both ? I think the best thing is to take the play calling away from Shanahan and Smith ... it's a start .

The Eagles whipped the snot out of the Steelers offense . This is same Steelers offense went through us like a hot knife through butter . There's something that's just wrong that higher picks will not cure .

HOU-TEX
09-22-2008, 03:15 PM
forget rebuild...I'd settle for a "build".

Gotta start with a foundation first. :wild:

Honoring Earl 34
09-22-2008, 03:27 PM
I'm getting my motivation from this skit .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxL1uXwSrdU&feature=related

Polo
09-22-2008, 03:34 PM
I'd like to see Demeco lose a few...

I think he was more effective and moved better before he gained weight...

Brando
09-22-2008, 03:37 PM
So, when are we going to bring Dan Reeves back in for a consultation? :brickwall:

utahmark
09-22-2008, 08:26 PM
1. Bob McNair - its amazing how the business and fan comfort side of things are so good compared to the mess that is football operations. McNair believes stability leads to success. I agree with that for the most part. However, that is no guarantee of success. Look at the Lions. They have inexplicably stuck with Matt Millen for all of these years. Despite, this stability the Lions are as bad as ever.

Bob, listen to me, if it becomes clear that Schaub, Kubiak, Rick Smith, and others are not the ones to lead us to the promised land make the move and get us the people who will. Don't stick with them just because that is what you think top franchises do. It's not. Don't make us languish like you did with the previous crew.

Also, please dispense with the idea that we should only have choir boys on this team. Good teams often have a few bad apples if they can play. Tank Johnson and Pacman could have helped us a lot.

Don't bet the farm and commit long term deals for those who haven't earned it (i.e. Carr's extension and Rick Smith's extension).

Finally, I think most of us would rather focus on building this team properly rather than overspend for a new "face of the franchise" like we did for Schaub.

.


i try to stay away from your post's because you only seem to post when things are not going well. unfortunatly with this team thats pretty much always. most people either get it or they dont so i usually dont try to explain it to the ones who dont but i was reading this on cnn and i thought maybe it would at least make people think twice about hiring a bunch of thugs to play for our team and represents our city.

from peter king at cnn
. I think Boys Will Be Boys, Jeff Pearlman's new book about the Dallas Cowboys in their glory days, and their decline from them, should not be dismissed as the rantings of a jaded sportswriter. Pearlman, obviously, has hit several nerves, and I applaud him for it.

Pearlman writes that Michael Irvin, incensed that tackle Everett McIver, in mid-haircut, would not leave a barber chair at training camp in 1998 so Irvin could get his haircut first, stabbed McIver in the neck. McIver was rushed to the hospital and survived, but not without losing a lot of blood. Irvin's silence on the charge has been deafening. I asked a Cowboy who played on that team if the story was true. "Absolutely,'' the Cowboy said. "I'm surprised it was kept quiet over the years.''

Pearlman writes in great detail about the White House, the house of ill repute Dallas players owned and managed near Valley Ranch, and he lampoons Deion Sanders, quoting Dallas corner Kevin Smith thusly: "When Deion came in, something changed for the worse. Guys who should have been studying football on a Wednesday at 12 o'clock were focused on other things. Deion was such a freaky athlete that he could shake one leg and be ready to cover anyone. But the guys following his lead weren't nearly as talented.'

In the first defensive team meeting Sanders attended, Pearlman writes, Sanders put his feet up on a table, and when defensive coordinator Dave Campo asked him to break down a play, Sanders said, "Hey, coach. I got that dude right there. Wherever he goes, I go. All that Cover Two stuff you're talking about -- y'all work that out.''

Pearlman writes that Troy Aikman was disgusted by Sanders. And Barry Switzer, too. He also notes that Switzer's liquor tab during the week of the Pittsburgh-Dallas Super Bowl in Arizona was $100,000. That's a heck of an example to set, Barry. What a great hire.

here is the link http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/peter_king/09/21/Week3/4.html

so if you wanna root for and celebrate with a bunch of thugs whom if you were sitting in a spot they wanted they might just stab you in the back of the neck so they can get their hair cut first. please move to dallas and root for them.

Spike
09-22-2008, 09:25 PM
so if you wanna root for and celebrate with a bunch of thugs whom if you were sitting in a spot they wanted they might just stab you in the back of the neck so they can get their hair cut first. please move to dallas and root for them.

I tend to agree.

My question to all of those who are unhappy with the the character of our players is, who of these bad apples was available or was interested in coming to our team?

threetoedpete
09-25-2008, 01:19 AM
I tend to agree.

My question to all of those who are unhappy with the the character of our players is, who of these bad apples was available or was interested in coming to our team?

Tommy Blake is still out there. Judging from the performances we've gotten out of Mr. Weaver so far....why the heck not ? I'm sure Weaver's a good guy. Nice family guy...and is a far better athlete than I'll ever hope to be...but it doesn't take Tex Schramm watching the guy to know the guy is basically done. One of Kubes' foibles is hanging with the vets too long. Ok, one eighth of the season is gone....how long do you hang with Weaver ? His play is so bad you might as well start the upside guy or stick Okoye out there. Couldn't get any worse.

HJam72
09-25-2008, 01:26 AM
Hmmmm.

Okoye, Johnson, Okam, Williams. At least size ceases to be a problem.

LonerATO
09-25-2008, 01:27 AM
Tommy Blake is still out there. Judging from the performances we've gotten out of Mr. Weaver so far....why the heck not ? I'm sure Weaver's a good guy. Nice family guy...and is a far better athlete than I'll ever hope to be...but it doesn't take Tex Schramm watching the guy to know the guy is basically done. One of Kubes' foibles is hanging with the vets too long. Ok, one eighth of the season is gone....how long do you hang with Weaver ? Hi splay is so bad you might as well start the upside guy or stick Okoye out there. Couldn't get any worse.

I have been screaming for Tommy Blake on here more then a few times when we talk about DE/DT players and everyone keeps saying he is a nut case so no we wont be going after him because everyone believes him to be a nut case

threetoedpete
09-25-2008, 01:30 AM
I'm with you up there Beer Lover. As I recall it, and maybe I'm being pollyanna here, they were only thirteen million under the cap after Mario's contract extension ? I believe the number was twelve something. So if they chose Green over Micheal Turner or Reeves over Randal Gay I got to figure there was a reason for that. I don't expect for Rick Smith to hit every thing. I do expect him to receive a little grace from the fans for the bridle he inherited. His wiff record isn't even close to CC's yet. From what I see when
Reeves face the ball and can read the formation and QB....he's a pretty good ball hawk. Now as far as instinct and knowing where the ball is when he's trailing a receiver...he's pretty much lost.

HJam72
09-25-2008, 01:32 AM
So what you're saying is that Reeves could coach some, but he is useless on the field. :mcnugget:

Goldensilence
09-25-2008, 01:44 AM
I'm with you up there Beer Lover. As I recall it, and maybe I'm being pollyanna here, they were only thirteen million under the cap after Mario's contract extension ? I believe the number was twelve something. So if they chose Green over Micheal Turner or Reeves over Randal Gay I got to figure there was a reason for that. I don't expect for Rick Smith to hit every thing. I do expect him to receive a little grace from the fans for the bridle he inherited. His wiff record isn't even close to CC's yet. From what I see when
Reeves face the ball and can read the formation and QB....he's a pretty good ball hawk. Now as far as instinct and knowing where the ball is when he's trailing a receiver...he's pretty much lost.

I'm inclined to agree he's more of a zone corner then a man up cover.

RipTraxx
09-25-2008, 04:26 AM
I said this on another thread but i'll say it again. We SHOULD'VE went with Patrick Willis instead of Amobi in the 07 draft. Considering what he's done as an ILB in 3-4 leading the league in tackles, as compared to Amobi 5.5 sacks......

The outside backers are supposed to be the stars of the 3-4 not the ILBs. And factor that Willis did it as a ROOKIE? IMO...We passed on a future HOF.....*Sigh*

Vinny
09-25-2008, 09:29 AM
I said this on another thread but i'll say it again. We SHOULD'VE went with Patrick Willis instead of Amobi in the 07 draft. Considering what he's done as an ILB in 3-4 leading the league in tackles, as compared to Amobi 5.5 sacks......

The outside backers are supposed to be the stars of the 3-4 not the ILBs. And factor that Willis did it as a ROOKIE? IMO...We passed on a future HOF.....*Sigh*right now it looks like there were SEVERAL players we should or could have picked over Danny Almonte (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danny_Almonte), er, I mean Amobi Okoye. Okoye has been awful so far this year....he may have peaked like Almonte did....as a child.

Specnatz
09-25-2008, 09:46 AM
right now it looks like there were SEVERAL players we should or could have picked over Danny Almonte (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danny_Almonte), er, I mean Amobi Okoye. Okoye has been awful so far this year....he may have peaked like Almonte did....as a child.

You would have said the same thing about Mario after the first two weeks of last season. You repeatedly blasted Kubiak for saying Mario was the most consistant player on D during the first half of last season. Of course that is not hard to do when you have guys like TJ and Weaver on the team. Oh and those blast turned out to oh so true ...................


NOT!!

beerlover
09-25-2008, 09:58 AM
I said this on another thread but i'll say it again. We SHOULD'VE went with Patrick Willis instead of Amobi in the 07 draft. Considering what he's done as an ILB in 3-4 leading the league in tackles, as compared to Amobi 5.5 sacks......

The outside backers are supposed to be the stars of the 3-4 not the ILBs. And factor that Willis did it as a ROOKIE? IMO...We passed on a future HOF.....*Sigh*

Besides DL is/was a huge need Amobi has as much potential as anyone but if revisionist thinking is allowed Marshawn Lynch would look awful good in battle red :shades:

El Tejano
09-25-2008, 10:19 AM
If we draft defensively again, I don't want Richard Smith being the guy to tell us what we need.

I want an offensive stud that is going to make our team score lots and lots of points.

Vinny
09-25-2008, 10:30 AM
If we draft defensively again, I don't want Richard Smith being the guy to tell us what we need.

I want an offensive stud that is going to make our team score lots and lots of points.we need some size inside because outside of Mario our front 7 is undersized and gets pushed around easily.

HJam72
09-25-2008, 10:33 AM
we need some size inside because outside of Mario our front 7 is undersized and gets pushed around easily.

Yep, that's what I'm been thinking about the front 4 anyway-more specifically, those two first round DTs.

Texan JBZ
09-25-2008, 10:38 AM
right now it looks like there were SEVERAL players we should or could have picked over Danny Almonte (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danny_Almonte), er, I mean Amobi Okoye. Okoye has been awful so far this year....he may have peaked like Almonte did....as a child.


Looks like people are finally catching up. I've been down on Amobi since the preseason, and people have been blasting me for it. Seems like others are finally seeing what I'm seeing. And for those who want to compare Amobi's situation to Mario's, stop it okay. Mario is and was in a different league from Amobi. Amobi needs to man-up and start playing some productive football for the Texans.

threetoedpete
09-25-2008, 02:57 PM
So what you're saying is that Reeves could coach some, but he is useless on the field. :mcnugget:

No ... what I'm saying is that the guy is not waisted money. Not yet. I don't know for a fact he isn't going to improve over the next six games. And guess what...neither do you. What I will say he makes an excellent nickel back candidate if he can't. And if they are over paying for guys tiring to plug holes they can't address in the draft with prospects, what else can they do ? This head coach and GM likes big safeties...I get it. So basically they took a shot at a guy with upside and hoped he would work out. If they had no cap money to play with, what the heck else could they do...who else was out there ? He can run with them. But he doesn't have the instinct to know when the ball is over his shoulder. He might acquire that over time. If you line the guy face up and let him read...he just might make a player.

threetoedpete
09-25-2008, 03:05 PM
we need some size inside because outside of Mario our front 7 is undersized and gets pushed around easily.

Or they could start shooting gaps and let Okoye do what he does best, beat people off the snap of the ball. And obviously they disagree with you other wise Maddox would still be on the roster.

Texecutioner
09-25-2008, 03:21 PM
Texans fans have suffered over the past 7 years in watching atrocious football. I wouldn't wish the Carr, Capers, and Casserley Axis of Evil on my worst enemy.

We literally had with Capers, Fangio, and Pendry, the most inept head coach and coaching staff in the NFL since Rich Kotite's reign of error with the Jets. Pendry's offensive scheme were laughably archaic and Capers was more conservative than RC Slocum.

What Casserley did to this franchise with his drafts and FA signings was absolutely criminally negligent and inept. I don't think he could have screwed us worse if he actually tried to do so. I don't have to go through the carnage here since we all know what was done.

Mr. Mittens IMO even under the best of circumstances would have never turned into a star. He redefined the position when it comes to poor play. No field vision, leadership, accuracy basically anything you would deem important in a QB. His only positive was that he was relatively durable.

A lot of our beleaguered fans (including myself) believed we had a pretty good QB, GM, and coach since the new regime seemed to have a clue and made incremental improvements to the horrid situation the former regime left.

Basically, I believe we were fed shit so long that once we tasted bologna we thought we finally had filet mignon. We have overrated what we have because hope is all we had and because we haven't seen winning EVER from the Texans. Let's look at the Texans from the top down with a critical eye:

1. Bob McNair - its amazing how the business and fan comfort side of things are so good compared to the mess that is football operations. McNair believes stability leads to success. I agree with that for the most part. However, that is no guarantee of success. Look at the Lions. They have inexplicably stuck with Matt Millen for all of these years. Despite, this stability the Lions are as bad as ever.

Bob, listen to me, if it becomes clear that Schaub, Kubiak, Rick Smith, and others are not the ones to lead us to the promised land make the move and get us the people who will. Don't stick with them just because that is what you think top franchises do. It's not. Don't make us languish like you did with the previous crew.

Also, please dispense with the idea that we should only have choir boys on this team. Good teams often have a few bad apples if they can play. Tank Johnson and Pacman could have helped us a lot.

Don't bet the farm and commit long term deals for those who haven't earned it (i.e. Carr's extension and Rick Smith's extension).

Finally, I think most of us would rather focus on building this team properly rather than overspend for a new "face of the franchise" like we did for Schaub.

2. Rick Smith - We have given him a lot of love and benefit of the doubt. I mean compared to the idiocy of Casserley, Rick seemed like a genius instead.

Again, while he is an improvement, If you look at his record it is merely average as a whole. His free agent signings have been disastrous. Weaver, AG, Chris Brown, Putzier, and to a lesser extent Reeves have been a big bag of nothing. The 2006 draft was good. However, Amobi is legitimately a concern now as he hasn't done jack since midseason last year. This year's draft is TBD.

The fact is this team still has gaping holes in multiple areas. This is year 3 in his reign. Rick Smith is not a great GM; a great GM would have more holes filled.

3. Kubiak and the coaching staff - Its embarrassing how bad we have been outcoached so far. Our supposedly awesome oline coach got schooled by Dick LaBeau. The playcalling in the red zone today was bone headed. Our offense has taken a step backwards. It looks like our wunderkind OC is not ready for the job.

The horrific clock mgmt and use of challenges is inexcusable. To not challenge the catch right before halftime shows a lack of organization and awareness. I don't care whose responsibility it really was to notify the HC, the buck stops with Kubiak.

Richard Smith is the opposing offenses best friend. Horrible schemes and poorly disguised blitzes are his hallmark. We don't force the issue and merely react. MW in coverage 20 yards downfield is a joke.

Not pulling an awful Schaub and putting in Sage in order to give the team a chance to win is so disappointing. That according to your own words the thought never entere your head is frightening.

On today's game alone Kubiak would have grounds to get his ass canned. Put in the best players on the field and take away playcalling from underperforming coordinators. If not, you will lose your job.

4. The players - Show some friggin pride out there. Someone stand up and become a vocal leader. We don't have great players. However, this is the easiest area to fix since our problems are systemic.

5. Pro scouting and medical staff - heads need to roll here because the acquisitions of Weaver, AG, Chris Brown, etc. should never have been greenlighted. We seem to hold out hope for injured players in a far greater manner than other teams. Why did the team hold on to Charles Spencer for so long despite clearly having a career threatening injury that wasn't getting better and which was made worse by his lack of commitment to rehab.

Our coaches and GM seem to get assurances that certain players will get healthy. We go into the offseason thinking those areas will be ok and address other areas. When these players don't play we are left with gaping holes. This needs to stop now.

It kills me to say this but we look like a 5 win team at best. We are still closer to the bottom than being anywhere close to the top. Its depressing to think our only way out is to start all over again but that is the only way. Get proven established winners here (Capers an Casserley while experienced did not have a longstanding track record of success). Pay whatever it takes to get a Bill Polian- type GM and a proven winner like Marty or Cowher as coach.

Excellent post! Right on.

Texecutioner
09-25-2008, 03:28 PM
leave rick smith alone....... the guy is the equivalent of daryl morey for the Texans.

You've got to be kidding me. They're no where close. Morey got rid of every bad contract the Rockets had in a league with guaranteed contracts, and has managed to make one great trade after another.

Smith is nowhere close to Morey. I can't even believe I read that.

infantrycak
09-25-2008, 03:29 PM
2. Rick Smith - We have given him a lot of love and benefit of the doubt. I mean compared to the idiocy of Casserley, Rick seemed like a genius instead.

Again, while he is an improvement, If you look at his record it is merely average as a whole. His free agent signings have been disastrous. Weaver, AG, Chris Brown, Putzier, and to a lesser extent Reeves have been a big bag of nothing.

FYI--Weaver and Putzier were brought in by Casserly before Rick Smith was hired.

Texecutioner
09-25-2008, 03:40 PM
FYI--Weaver and Putzier were brought in by Casserly before Rick Smith was hired.

Putzier was a Kubiak request.

infantrycak
09-25-2008, 03:42 PM
Putzier was a Kubiak request.

So what?--his point was about Rick Smith. He wasn't brought in by Smith.

Specnatz
09-25-2008, 04:28 PM
I am not sure how you classify Putzier but he is like a bunch of NFL players, a vet. who is 3 rd on the dept chart. When he was brought in the Texans did not have a good pass catching TE. They drafted Owen Daniels and found a gem.

Besides it is not like he cost the team very much.

NBT
09-25-2008, 04:29 PM
....And Putzier is no longer on the team, so what's the big deal?

Runner
09-25-2008, 05:02 PM
....And Putzier is no longer on the team, so what's the big deal?

It might be a little deal if there was a tght end they could of picked up three years ago who contributed more or who would still be on the team. Stop gap veterans don't help the team build stability.

I don't think the Jeb pickup is a big issue. I have no idea who else may have been available.

As an aside, it is nice to see all catch and no block Billy Miller still contributing to the Saints on occasion.

J-Russ
09-25-2008, 06:47 PM
You've got to be kidding me. They're no where close. Morey got rid of every bad contract the Rockets had in a league with guaranteed contracts, and has managed to make one great trade after another.

Smith is nowhere close to Morey. I can't even believe I read that.

Wow you're being totally ignorant right now. It ain't hard to get rid of the "bad contracts" when the only one they had was Juwan Howard. Besides Morey was taking over a playoff team with only 15 players on his squad. I think the Texans had close to that amount of players with bad contracts, when Smith took over.

Gary Walker, Robaire Smith, Carr, Dom Davis, Buchannon, Payne, Weigert, Wade, etc.

Besides having his top FA signing bust every season, I don't see how Rick Smith is a bad GM, and I sure wouldn't say he NOWHERE near Morey.

Yomaine
09-25-2008, 06:57 PM
Everyone says were rebuilding. How are we rebuilding if we never finished building in the first place. If your just building you can always changed the way your building or start-over. Some times its better to just trash it and start-over. And no thats still not rebuilding!

Texan_Bill
09-25-2008, 07:05 PM
It might be a little deal if there was a tght end they could of picked up three years ago who contributed more or who would still be on the team. Stop gap veterans don't help the team build stability.

I don't think the Jeb pickup is a big issue. I have no idea who else may have been available.

As an aside, it is nice to see all catch and no block Billy Miller still contributing to the Saints on occasion.

This is all I could find for 2006 FA TE's. It's from a fantasy football site, so take it FWIW:

The recent decision by the Denver Broncos to release Jeb Putzier from his contract and make him an unrestricted free agent certainly helped this free agent class. Putzier immediately steps in as the top free agent tight end available as the rest of the class is mediocre at best; littered with only a couple of guys who could possibly surprise, but for the most part are just re-hashing of mediocre tight ends already on other rosters.

1) Jeb Putzier (unrestricted, Denver): The Broncos cut him loose and someone looking for a competent pass catching tight end will likely pick him up and hope he's as good as he looked two years ago.

2) Chris Baker (unrestricted, New York Jets): For 4 years we've heard about Baker's unrealized potential. Now some other team will get to realize the futility of trying to find it as well. Perhaps that's being too harsh, but Baker's had his chances and has only flashed visions of great abilities a couple of times. But him being ranked #2 in the class should tell you al you need to know about the caliber of players we're looking at.

3) Zach Hilton (restricted, New Orleans): Hilton is a mammoth sized TE at 6'8", 268 lbs. He got a chance to show off some good skills in 2005 and while still not refined, he could be the next big sleeper TE that comes out of nowhere. But as a restricted free agent he's not likely to go anywhere.

4) Aaron Shea (unrestricted, Cleveland): Has shown he's capable as a pass catcher, but hasn't really gotten a chance to be the #1. He'll go somewhere and compete for a starting job, but just doesn't appear likely to really take his game up to the level necessary to be a great starting TE.

5) Robert Royal (unrestricted, Washington): Royal got lost on a team that used the H-Back position more in their offense than the traditional TE. He's got some skills and could be a good pass catcher, but isn't a complete TE and likely ends up as part of a TE rotation somewhere.

Other notables: Dan Campbell (unrestricted, Dallas); Brandon Manumaleuna (unrestricted, St. Louis); Will Heller (restricted, Miami); Ryan Hannam (unrestricted, Seattle); Matt Schobel (unrestricted, Cincinnati); George Wrighster (restricted, Jacksonville).

As for teams looking for TE's? Basically, everyone except San Diego, Kansas City, Dallas, Washington, New England, Tennessee, Miami, Atlanta, Indianapolis, NY Giants, and Baltimore are looking for a good TE.



Fantasy Football Starters (http://www.fantasyfootballstarters.com/wtw_06FATEK.jsp)

Second Honeymoon
09-25-2008, 07:28 PM
hopefully the boys can turn it around. they have looked like dog crap so far but they still have 14 games to play and have plenty of time show that they can be competitive or perhaps even turn the season around.

if they fail to show a pulse for the rest of the year, McNair needs to bring about a regime change and he needs to move quickly if he has any inkling of doing so. with all the impending coaching changes (potentially 1/4 of the league), we need to move faster in order for our candidate (Cowher anyone?) to assemble a coaching staff before everyone picks the cupboard dry. That is what happened with the Kubiak hiring although it was of really no fault of our own. Kubiak was untouchable till post-AFC Championship Game. Geez, that is how we ended up with Richard Smith as our Defensive Coordinator. Guy wasn't exactly at the top of our list but he was all that remained.

Runner
09-25-2008, 07:45 PM
This is all I could find for 2006 FA TE's. It's from a fantasy football site, so take it FWIW:



Fantasy Football Starters (http://www.fantasyfootballstarters.com/wtw_06FATEK.jsp)

Not much there.

Texecutioner
09-25-2008, 07:53 PM
Wow you're being totally ignorant right now. It ain't hard to get rid of the "bad contracts" when the only one they had was Juwan Howard. Besides Morey was taking over a playoff team with only 15 players on his squad. I think the Texans had close to that amount of players with bad contracts, when Smith took over.

Gary Walker, Robaire Smith, Carr, Dom Davis, Buchannon, Payne, Weigert, Wade, etc.

Besides having his top FA signing bust every season, I don't see how Rick Smith is a bad GM, and I sure wouldn't say he NOWHERE near Morey.

Let's see he brought back Mike James who was regarded as a really good PG that played real well for us at before. He found a way to get Steve Francious back when everyone thought he could still play. He found a way to snake Scola over from the Spurs. That was all in his first off season to start weeling and dealing. That was his first off season. He also made really good draft picks with Carl Landry in the 2nd freaking round and Aaron Brooks.

Then in the season when James wasn't playing up to par he found away to dump him and his contract and also get an under achieving Bonzi Wells off the team and off the books as well.

In this off season, he first signs a savy veteran in Brent Barry to help out with 3 point shooting, and he grabs some young Euro PG that we didn't even need. When everyone including myself was ticked over night he creates this wizadry of trades where we end up with Dorsey and the Green that had a lot of upside as well and a 2nd round pick. But we need a third scorer. Did he stop there? No, he trades Green who wouldn't make a big impact this year any way, a first round pick that wasn't worth much and some other trash for Ron Fricken Artest!! And the Kings had previously stated that they weren't going to trade anyone Artest unless they took Kenny Thomas and his terrible contract, but Morey somehow dodged that bullet as well. Oh, and we just resigned Carl Landry! And we're still not even finished. Right now on paper the Rockets have a great shot at being one of the best defensive teams of all time next year.

Now I left several moves out of all of this that Morey has done. Smith has done a decent job and all, but he is nowhere near Morey's level of a GM and what Morey has been able to do for the Rockets thus far. This isn't even close.

J-Russ
09-25-2008, 08:07 PM
Now I left several moves out of all of this that Morey has done. Smith has done a decent job and all, but he is nowhere near Morey's level of a GM and what Morey has been able to do for the Rockets thus far. This isn't even close.

Smith had to do alot more for the Texans, because they were in a worser state then the Rockets. All Morey had to do was put the whip cream and cherry on the ice cream, Smith however was digging at the end of the bucket when he took over.

If you want to compare them by records though, then Rick Smith turn our team from 2-14 to 8-8, bottom-feeders to middle of the pack. Morey however, went from 52-30 to 53-29 and lost again in the first round of the PO (I know, Yao was out...).

If you ask me who has help their team more, since taking over, I'll say it's Rick Smith by a pretty good margin.

Texecutioner
09-25-2008, 08:17 PM
Smith had to do alot more for the Texans, because they were in a worser state then the Rockets. All Morey had to do was put the whip cream and cherry on the ice cream, Smith however had to dig at the end of the bucket for his ice cream.

If you want to compare them by records though, then Rick Smith turn our team from 2-14 to 8-8, bottom-feeders to middle of the pack. Morey however, went from 52-30 to 53-29 and lost again in the PO (I know, Yao was out...).

You see J-Russ, this is my problem with this assessment. So many people act like another GM couldn't have done the same thing or possibly better. So many of you want to compare Smith to Casserly as if Casserly is the only person to compare him to. Sure he looks great when you compare him to Casserly or Millen.The Texans were 2-14 and should have been 3-13 if it weren't for Brown's obvious missed kick. The Texans had nowhere to go but up. They weren't going to repeat that season again. You may have thought so, but not me. I didn't hope for improvements, I expected them.

The Jets and the Saints both were in terrible conditions just like the Texans were when Smith and Kubiak came in. They both had slightly better records by maybe a game or two at best. They both made the playoffs the very next season and improved a lot. I didn't expect to make the playoffs, but going 6-10 was not something to make me say WOW! Again, it was expected. Then improving to 8-8 is still an improvement, but many of you keep acting like it was some sort of milestone that was like achieving the impossible or something.

What Morey has done with the Rockets has just been unbelievable to me, and in my opinion it is harder in basketball because of guaranteed contracts and it is way harder to fill holes in basketball then it is in football. Morey has made some spectacular trades getting just about every bad contract off of our books, and drafted extremely well with late picks.

I'm no huge advocate for Smith, and I think he has done a decent job and all but not exactly great.

b0ng
09-25-2008, 09:04 PM
I love it.

2 games into his second season (facing 2 tough offensive lines no less) and Okoye is a bust. Rick Smith is a horrible GM and Matt Schaub needs to be benched. Our O-line coach is apparently terrible and we have no chance at all.

So basically it's par for the course. I figured there would be a lot of this come our first 5 games seeing as how everybody knew the opening schedule was deadly. Count in the fact that we basically got stripped of a bye (no fault of anybody's) and we lost the one home game where we had a chance to win in the month of September and everybody wants heads to roll.

Don't mind me, I'll be over here with the "wait and see" fans. Call me a fool, but I'm waiting until week 5 or so to see what our team really looks like. Uncompetitive in the first 2 games? Yeah, they did look like that, but I'll give them a pass on the Tennessee game due to hurricanage. I don't mind seeing Schaub trotted out again vs Jacksonville, but it seems like a lot of fans are taking it as some sort of personal slight against them individually by the Texans organization that he's even being given another chance. I don't see why.

Chicken little anyone?

utahmark
09-26-2008, 12:50 AM
I love it.

2 games into his second season (facing 2 tough offensive lines no less) and Okoye is a bust. Rick Smith is a horrible GM and Matt Schaub needs to be benched. Our O-line coach is apparently terrible and we have no chance at all.

So basically it's par for the course. I figured there would be a lot of this come our first 5 games seeing as how everybody knew the opening schedule was deadly. Count in the fact that we basically got stripped of a bye (no fault of anybody's) and we lost the one home game where we had a chance to win in the month of September and everybody wants heads to roll.

Don't mind me, I'll be over here with the "wait and see" fans. Call me a fool, but I'm waiting until week 5 or so to see what our team really looks like. Uncompetitive in the first 2 games? Yeah, they did look like that, but I'll give them a pass on the Tennessee game due to hurricanage. I don't mind seeing Schaub trotted out again vs Jacksonville, but it seems like a lot of fans are taking it as some sort of personal slight against them individually by the Texans organization that he's even being given another chance. I don't see why.

Chicken little anyone?

just wait till next week after we win. wont be able to shut these same guys up with all their talk of coach of the year, mvp and maybe even a hint of super bowl mixed in.