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View Full Version : I know line of scrimmage talk is boring


Marcus
09-21-2008, 05:07 PM
I know it's not sexy like the Fire Kubiak and Fire Smith and Dump Schaub threads.

But this team lost because we got beat in the trenches. We got dominated up front, on both sides of the line.

I know . . . yeah but, yeah but, yeah but . . .

But all those other things are NOT why the team is getting beat like it is.

Bull Pen 1
09-21-2008, 05:11 PM
I know it's not sexy like the Fire Kubiak and Fire Smith and Dump Schaub threads.

But this team lost because we got beat in the trenches. We got dominated up front, on both sides of the line.

I know . . . yeah but, yeah but, yeah but . . .

But all those other things are NOT why the team is getting beat like it is.

Change qb and see if it's the line. We heard the same thing about the o-line with Carr and when he was going the o-line wasn't the problem anymore.

Marcus
09-21-2008, 05:14 PM
Change qb and see if it's the line. We heard the same thing about the o-line with Carr and when he was going the o-line wasn't the problem anymore.

Who? Oh, you mean Sage?:spit:

HJam72
09-21-2008, 05:17 PM
Change qb and see if it's the line. We heard the same thing about the o-line with Carr and when he was going the o-line wasn't the problem anymore.

Do you really think that we did not get our butts kicked on both sides of the line today?

Let's start seeing all the trees in the forest:

Our LOS is WEAK AND our QB cannot "make" plays.
David Carr sucked AND our O-line (for the most part) sucked.
It is both and it was both.
Schaub is far superior to David Carr, and this is somehow possible while he simultaneously is a sub-par starter.

First thing to do: Forget all that conundrum crap and replace our ***** DC.

Honoring Earl 34
09-21-2008, 05:18 PM
I know it's not sexy like the Fire Kubiak and Fire Smith and Dump Schaub threads.

But this team lost because we got beat in the trenches. We got dominated up front, on both sides of the line.

I know . . . yeah but, yeah but, yeah but . . .

But all those other things are NOT why the team is getting beat like it is.

I read somewhere that Tom Nalen was a real strong guy for his size ( plays heavy ) . He's been the Broncos center forever and a day .

I'm not sure our center is the same way . Heck except for our two young tackles ... nobody should feel comfortable .

The DL ... it's not like we have'nt spent high picks on them . We're just not good .

Norg
09-21-2008, 05:19 PM
We win and lose in the trenches ... thats all there is 2 it and we lost Period

esp are O line

are D line was decent

Honoring Earl 34
09-21-2008, 05:19 PM
Do you really think that we did not get our butts kicked on both sides of the line today?

Let's start seeing all the trees in the forest:

Our LOS is WEAK AND our QB cannot "make" plays.
David Carr sucked AND our O-line (for the most part) sucked.
It is both and it was both.
Schaub is far superior to David Carr, and this is somehow possible while he simultaneously is a sub-par starter.

First thing to do: Forget all that conundrum crap and replace our ***** DC.

I think the Titans sat on the lead in the 2nd half and played ball control . When they were playing for real , we did'nt do so hot .

They kicked our butts when it counted .

ReliantTexan
09-21-2008, 05:26 PM
Whoa. I know you guys don't agree with me,but our skill positions lost us this game today, IMO. Which surprised me. We blocked pretty well for the most part, and their wasn't consistent pressure on Matt the whole game. Granted he got sacked 3 times, but I thought the O-line held their own, we ran the ball very effectively. On The d-line there were several plays where we got pressure on Collins. I'm not saying they played great, but I think most of the blame should be elsewhere.

Twitch-Houston
09-21-2008, 05:30 PM
The line didn't lose this game in my opinion. The only thing they did is help Slaton solidify the starting RB position.

That was the bright spot of this game. I think we may have a real running back. Griffin knows we do. :jogger:

Runner
09-21-2008, 05:38 PM
I don't think line talk is boring.

IMO, our o-line looked "OK" only in comparison to the Texans o-lines we are used to seeing. When I watch other teams play, the good ones don't have their QBs in the state of near disaster on play after play as we see with the Texans. The average ones have more consistency.

Corrosion
09-21-2008, 05:39 PM
I made this post in another thread not two minutes ago .... so I'll just copy and paste it here.

Yep , they came up against top flight competition .... and in the AFC South they are gonna see Fat Albert and Henderson twice a year .... Those guy's are expected to make plays ..... They just seem to make an awful lot of plays against the Texans.


Looking at the types of defenses the Texans will face at least 25% of the season and in 50% of their divisional games they would be better suited with a ....dare I say .... Cowbow's type O-line and scheme .... Road grader type guy's rather than the ZBS and smaller more agile linemen.

Although the running game was pretty solid today I give a lot of that credit to Slaton
Ive thought this about our O-line on more than one occasion .... maybe I'm the only one but its starting to make more sense as we continue to get beat up front.

Honoring Earl 34
09-21-2008, 05:40 PM
I don't think line talk is boring.

IMO, our o-line looked "OK" only in comparison to the Texans o-lines we are used to seeing. When I watch other teams play, the good ones don't have their QBs in the state of near disaster on play after play as we see with the Texans. The average ones have more consistency.

I think the DL is s bigger letdown than the OL .

Runner
09-21-2008, 05:43 PM
I think the DL is s bigger letdown than the OL .

In other words, the Texans aren't very good.

8-8 may be out of reach.

TexansSeminole
09-21-2008, 05:45 PM
I made this post in another thread not two minutes ago .... so I'll just copy and paste it here.



Although the running game was pretty solid today I give a lot of that credit to Slaton
Ive thought this about our O-line on more than one occasion .... maybe I'm the only one but its starting to make more sense as we continue to get beat up front.

I agree 100%. We can't even run for a yard or two when we need it. We can only run when there is 5+ yards to make. Basically we can't run when they know we are going to run, which you need to be able to do in the NFL.


8-8 may be out of reach.

OHHH yea, 8-8 is a stretch. We would be lucky to win 6 or 7 games this year.

Texans_Chick
09-21-2008, 05:45 PM
Everybody was out of sync.

The lines looked overmatched.
The defensive scheme in particular looked goofy.
The offensive scheme looked rusty. Line bad, receivers bad.
Matt Turk showed amazing athleticism throwing as he was falling. I mean, yeah, it went directly to the wrong guy, but that was still impressive for an old guy.

Really, the Steve Slaton show was encouraging. For him to have his runs when everything looked awful is a small light of nonsuck.

As far as being fixable...

I have a little hope that the offensive line is fixable. They are working with a newish system and with three new guys on the line. Maybe they get better--though they were really worked by large physical lines as not uncommon with ZBS first teams. They look better if guys had caught a few more balls that they normally catch.

I have not much hope for the defense. If Kerry Freaking Collins can run on you at will, you are really messed up.

Runner
09-21-2008, 05:48 PM
Matt Turk showed amazing athleticism throwing as he was falling. I mean, yeah, it went directly to the wrong guy, but that was still impressive for an old guy.



I have not much hope for the defense. If Kerry Freaking Collins can run on you at will, you are really messed up.

Let's hear it for the seniors!

TexansSeminole
09-21-2008, 05:50 PM
If Kerry Freaking Collins can run on you at will, you are really messed up.

Especially when it is a called play. Not a scramble. A called play for Kerry Collins to run. They had zero respect for our outside linebackers' speed. I keep seeing the Yay Zac Diles posts. I'm confused. The guy was beat for a touchdown today. Should have been 2 but one got called back. He is about as slow as Greenwood, may be even slower. I don't see anything that Diles can do other than tackle a guy running directly at him. Maybe it's just a high tackle number on the stat sheet that people are so happy about. Honestly, he looks like a college football player.

We are going to continue to get beat on easy little dump off passes and QB runs if we don't change our OLBs. They are WAAAAAY too slow.

Corrosion
09-21-2008, 05:52 PM
Especially when it is a called play. Not a scramble. A called play for Kerry Collins to run. They had zero respect for our outside linebackers' speed. I keep seeing the Yay Zac Diles posts. I'm confused. The guy was beat for a touchdown today. Should have been 2 but one got called back. He is about as slow as Greenwood, may be even slower. I don't see anything that Diles can do other than tackle a guy running directly at him. Maybe it's just a high tackle number on the stat sheet that people are so happy about. Honestly, he looks like a college football player.

We are going to continue to get beat on easy little dump off passes and QB runs if we don't change our OLBs. They are WAAAAAY too slow.

I was thinking the exact same thing as I read TC's post.

Runner
09-21-2008, 05:52 PM
OHHH yea, 8-8 is a stretch. We would be lucky to win 6 or 7 games this year.

I was being polite when I said 8-8 may be out of reach. I see a team that is always confused with questionable talent and coaching in many areas. I don't know how long it will be until the players mentally hang it up. It has happened before here.

TheIronDuke
09-21-2008, 05:53 PM
Dick Smith likes slow OLB's, 10 yard cushions, and arm tackles. It's a new scheme that we're perfecting week by week.

ESAD2-14
09-21-2008, 06:00 PM
I was being polite when I said 8-8 may be out of reach. I see a team that is always confused with questionable talent and coaching in many areas. I don't know how long it will be until the players mentally hang it up. It has happened before here.

I'm wondering if guys like AJ are regretting the extensions they signed? I hope not, but frustration can only be staved off so long.

Correct me if I am wrong, but was there not a series at about the Tenn. 2 yd. line in the 4th qtr. that went: pass, pass, pass, run(Slaton) where he came up about 1/2 yard short of the goal line?

Runner
09-21-2008, 06:01 PM
I'm wondering if guys like AJ are regretting the extensions they signed?

I'd bet there would be much regret if the Texans regress as little as 6-10.

Texans_Chick
09-21-2008, 06:02 PM
Let's hear it for the seniors!

Hey, old guys need love too.

Pretty much I expected the Texans to look really ugly in September given the schedule. A bunch of physical defenses against a Texans offense trying to learn their stuff.

My thought was that the team had to survive September without serious injury to see if they could get out of the month with any confidence left.

I think last year's 8-8 team played over their head. Didn't see any quit in them. You know how hard it is to go 8-8 with a bottom ranked defense and all those turnovers? I think that this Texans team is a few really good players surrounded by try hard guys.

utahmark
09-21-2008, 06:10 PM
I'm wondering if guys like AJ are regretting the extensions they signed? I hope not, but frustration can only be staved off so long.

Correct me if I am wrong, but was there not a series at about the Tenn. 2 yd. line in the 4th qtr. that went: pass, pass, pass, run(Slaton) where he came up about 1/2 yard short of the goal line?

if he keeps playing like he did today im gonna regret the extension he sighned. he had 2 td's in his hand an couldnt catch one of them.

leebigeztx
09-21-2008, 06:15 PM
I'm a in the trenchhes type cuz that's wwhere games are won orr lost.I stiill think its square pegs for rou holes. Schaub is a midline passer, so u should have big stout guys like philly. The texans have smallish guy s built for plummer and garcia types. With al that said, that has nothing to do with schaub thrrowing behind guys ad mising wide open receivers.

TheIronDuke
09-21-2008, 06:18 PM
Anyone get a chance to really see how Amobi and TJ played today? I know that it's hard to quantify a DT's play by stats but I don't recall hearing either of their names.

ESAD2-14
09-21-2008, 06:18 PM
if he keeps playing like he did today im gonna regret the extension he sighned. he had 2 td's in his hand an couldnt catch one of them.

Today, yes, however he has been our most consistent (and best) offensive player since he has been here.

TexansSeminole
09-21-2008, 06:21 PM
Today, yes, however he has been our most consistent (and best) offensive player since he has been here.

Agreed. Dude had a bad game, one of the only I have seen.

It's the guys who consistently have bad games that we need to be worried about.

Corrosion
09-21-2008, 06:30 PM
Anyone get a chance to really see how Amobi and TJ played today? I know that it's hard to quantify a DT's play by stats but I don't recall hearing either of their names.

TJ did not play , Zgonina started and Okam saw some time.

TheIronDuke
09-21-2008, 06:36 PM
Oh, no wonder I didn't hear TJ's name. How'd Amobi do? I suck at paying attention to the line play and I'm at a place without DVR and my DVR at home probably didn't record because there ain't electricity there.

ESAD2-14
09-21-2008, 06:40 PM
Oh, no wonder I didn't hear TJ's name. How'd Amobi do? I suck at paying attention to the line play and I'm at a place without DVR and my DVR at home probably didn't record because there ain't electricity there.

I heard on the radio during the drive home, that between all the DT's that played today they had a combined, 1 tackle. Be nice if that report was wrong, but at this point it does not seem out of the question.

TheIronDuke
09-21-2008, 06:42 PM
I heard on the radio during the drive home, that between all the DT's that played today they had a combined, 1 tackle. Be nice if that report was wrong, but at this point it does not seem out of the question.

1 tackle by all the DT's with all the running the Titans were doing would be pretty freaking ridiculous.

Twitch-Houston
09-21-2008, 06:42 PM
Oh, no wonder I didn't hear TJ's name. How'd Amobi do? I suck at paying attention to the line play and I'm at a place without DVR and my DVR at home probably didn't record because there ain't electricity there.

If I'm not mistaken, the D only allowed 3 points in the second half and that was on a short field.

The Pencil Neck
09-21-2008, 10:55 PM
I don't think line talk is boring.

IMO, our o-line looked "OK" only in comparison to the Texans o-lines we are used to seeing. When I watch other teams play, the good ones don't have their QBs in the state of near disaster on play after play as we see with the Texans. The average ones have more consistency.

I kinda disagree. First off, I thought our QB (for the most part) got enough time. Sure, there were some whiffs where he had no chance and got creamed and there were some times that the pocket wasn't clean but that's life.

Secondly, I've watched a lot of other teams and a lot of other games and many teams are successful with line play as good as we've gotten. The Dallas line is really good (although built according to a totally different scheme than ours) but Romo gets TONS of pressure. He still makes plays. I'm watching them right now and for the past several pass plays, Romo hasn't had a clean pocket and yet he just hit Crayton for a TD. Or look at the Steelers... they are 2-1 and Roethlisberger has gotten massacred (especially today).

Can our line play better? Yes, it can and yes, it should. But it's giving us enough time to be successful in the passing game and big enough holes in the run game if we hit them on time and if we can break one tackle.

I don't think the line was the problem today.

The Pencil Neck
09-21-2008, 10:59 PM
Anyone get a chance to really see how Amobi and TJ played today? I know that it's hard to quantify a DT's play by stats but I don't recall hearing either of their names.

TJ didn't play. Amobi got some pressure occasionally. In the second half, I thought Okam and Zgonina played pretty well, although Zgonina got blowed up by Mawae on the QB Sneak out of the end zone.

The Pencil Neck
09-21-2008, 11:01 PM
1 tackle by all the DT's with all the running the Titans were doing would be pretty freaking ridiculous.

Deljuan Robinson got an assist. Zgonina got an assist. Okoye got 3 assists and was in Collins' face a couple of times. Okam got a tackle and I thought he did a good job plugging up the middle in the second half.

keyser
09-22-2008, 12:34 AM
Deljuan Robinson got an assist. Zgonina got an assist. Okoye got 3 assists and was in Collins' face a couple of times. Okam got a tackle and I thought he did a good job plugging up the middle in the second half.

I didn't pay close attention to who was playing at each point in the game, but it did seem to me that when the announcers said Okam came in, the DL looked better on the next play. Also, I thought Mario looked OK (not great) today (unlike the rest of the DL).

keyser
09-22-2008, 12:36 AM
Dick Smith likes slow OLB's, 10 yard cushions, and arm tackles. It's a new scheme that we're perfecting week by week.

Don't forget sending DEs into coverage so that someone else can rush the passer...

J-Russ
09-22-2008, 12:50 AM
Deljuan Robinson got an assist. Zgonina got an assist. Okoye got 3 assists and was in Collins' face a couple of times. Okam got a tackle and I thought he did a good job plugging up the middle in the second half.

Yep. I think Lance Z said some positive things about him and Chaun Thompson today. I think these guys should be getting more snaps, perhaps even start, for our defense.

I'm starting to really question our coaching staff... It seems like we know more about football then them. We knew Green and Reeves were bad signing. Also, I could've sworn we said we needed to start guys like Slaton, Okam, Molden, Cochran, etc... in the pre-season. Two out of those four seems to be right so far in this young season.

New_Texans
09-22-2008, 01:00 AM
Adibi might really help us out when it comes to Line backer speed right?

KEYE SUX
09-22-2008, 04:08 AM
1 tackle by all the DT's with all the running the Titans were doing would be pretty freaking ridiculous.

As bad as it may seem. our Dline actually held their star RB to his least yardage this year. White did get 2 TDs but did not blow up in yards, either.