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fresno8
12-24-2004, 02:57 AM
This is what I think the Texans should do rounds 1-4. #1 stands for our top need by round. #2 is our 2nd priority if the talent for our main need isn't available when we pick and the list goes on down through #5. Be sure to weigh in on this when your done.

Round 1

1. DE (pass rusher, to help our secondary make plays and stop the pass)
2. O-lineman (if top talent is available any line position would help any player is expendable on our line)
3. DT (2-gap player if we're staying 3-4)
4. MLB (hopefully a playmaker, someone to replace Foreman next year and Sharper eventually.)
5. RB (gamebreaker)

Round 2

1. O-lineman (possibly start, but if not groom for a year to start)
2. WR (possibly for our number 2 (big & fast) to help AJ , but if not good speedy slot reciever, i.e stokely)
3. DE (need help bad w/ pass rush)
4. DB (GOOD RETURN MAN/ #3 DB, replace Glenn in a couple years)
5. RB (either a bruiser/ or speed demon)

Round 3

1. O-line(again we need good bodies to play immediatley or groom for '06)
2. DT (Payne needs help or needs to be replaced)
3. WR (diamond in the rough i.e. Tyrone Calico, Brandon Lloyd, etc.)
4. DE ( raw athletic guy who gets after the QB)
5. MLB (Foreman replacment, either playmaker or tackle machine, pick w. '06 in mind)

Round 4

1. TE ( Joppru has amounted to nothing and a 4 rnd pick won't hurt to bad if this one doesn't work out, need a balanced TE)
2. QB (Banks possibly leaving and I don't like Left handed back up)
3. O-line (need more talent period, this pick can be some one to groom for a couple years or possible steal)
4. RB ( pick one speed or bruiser)
5. FS ( Coleman is getting older, groom possible replacement)

What do you all think?

astrofan
12-24-2004, 04:26 PM
pass rush does not come from DEs in 3-4
I think that a DE>OLB is more along the line of what you are talking about
our 'DE's are really just agile tackles who hypothetically occupy the OTs so our edge rushers (OLBs, not DEs) can make some plays
you are right that we need to draft a college end, but not to play end
the suggs/babin styles in the draft that I like:
David Pollack (http://georgiadogs.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/pollack_david00.html)
Dan Cody (http://www.soonersports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=2470&SPID=190&DB_OEM_ID=300&ATCLID=11477&Q_SEASON=2004)
Matt Roth (http://hawkeyesports.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/roth_matt00.html)
Adell Duckett (http://texastech.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/duckett_adell00.html)
Mathias Kiwanuka (http://bceagles.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/kiwanuka_mathias00.html)
Jonathan Jackson (http://www.soonersports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=2470&SPID=190&DB_OEM_ID=300&ATCLID=11520&Q_SEASON=2004)

as opposed to texan end prospects:
Marcus Spears (http://www.lsusports.net/bio.cfm?ref=000E96C2-06A2-1B4A-85BD809F187E0000&sporttype=FB&indivtype=PL)
Dusty Dvoracek (http://www.soonersports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=2470&SPID=190&DB_OEM_ID=300&ATCLID=11517&Q_SEASON=2004)
Luis Castillo (http://nusports.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/castillo_luis00.html)

I don't think we go oline with first rounder

we do need NT depth in a serious way:
Anttaj Hawthorne (http://www.uwbadgers.com/sport_news/fb/bios/bio.aspx?id=Hawthorne_Anttaj_fb&sport=fb)
Haloti Ngata (http://www.goducks.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=3378&SPID=233&DB_OEM_ID=500&ATCLID=22368&Q_SEASON=2004)
Ronald Fields (http://www.mstateathletics.com/0,5604,1_27_0_562,00.html)

ILB prospects:
Derrick Johnson (http://www.mackbrown-texasfootball.com/pages/bios04/johnson_derrick.html)
Ahmad Brooks (http://virginiasports.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/brooks_ahmad00.html)
Barrett Ruud (http://www.huskers.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=4&SPID=22&DB_OEM_ID=100&ATCLID=889&Q_SEASON=2004)
Chad Greenway (http://hawkeyesports.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/greenway_chad00.html)
Will Derting (http://wsucougars.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/derting_will00.html)
Ryan Claridge (http://unlvrebels.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/claridge_ryan00.html)
Roger Cooper (http://www.msubobcats.com/player_bios.php?sid=fb&athid=71)
Mike Goolsby (http://und.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/goolsby_mike00.html)

RBs
speed:
Ronnie 'second fiddle' Brown (http://www.auburntigers.com/football/page.cfm?doc_id=499)
Ciatick 'mr gator' Fason (http://www.gatorzone.com/football/bios.php?year=2004&sub=team&bio=fason.html)
Anthony 'shankd' Davis (http://www.uwbadgers.com/sport_news/fb/bios/bio.aspx?id=Davis_Anthony_fb&sport=fb)
Walter 'cuzin' Reyes (http://www.suathletics.com/roster.asp?playerid=181&sport=187&roster=134)
Darren 'little' Sproles (http://www.kstatesports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=3062&SPID=212&DB_OEM_ID=400&ATCLID=20147&Q_SEASON=2004)

power:
Kay-Jay 'ol man' Harris (http://www.msnsportsnet.com/profile.cfm?id=100589&sport=football)
Marion 'MI hate me' Barber III (http://www.gophersports.com/Sports/player.asp?player_id=1508&sport_id=mfball)
Frank 'gimme seven' Gore (http://hurricanesports.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/gore_frank00.html)
Brandon 'threehole' Jacobs (http://siusalukis.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/jacobs_brandon00.html)

WRs
Mike Williams (http://usctrojans.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/williams_mike00.html)
Braylon Edwards (http://mgoblue.com/bio.cfm?bio_id=47&section_id=258&top=2&level=3&season=927)
Vincent Jackson (http://uncbears.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/jackson_vincent00.html)
Chris Henry (http://www.msnsportsnet.com/profile.cfm?id=100556&sport=football)
Matt Jones (http://www.hogwired.com/tablestory.asp?Home_ID=2&Story_ID=5995)
Nehemiah Glover (http://texastech.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/glover_nehemiah00.html)
Big Play Trey Haverty (http://texastech.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/haverty_trey00.html)

TEs
Heath Miller (http://virginiasports.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/miller_heath00.html)
Andrew Clark (http://utrockets.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/clarke_andrew00.html)
Garrett Cross (http://calbears.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/cross_garrett00.html)
Joel Dreesen (http://www.csurams.com/roster.aspx?action=athleteInfo&startrow=21&sportID=1&AthleteID=501)
Dave Kashetta (http://bceagles.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/kashetta_david00.html)
Billy Bajema (http://www.okstate.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=1421&SPID=143&DB_OEM_ID=200&ATCLID=6970&Q_SEASON=2004)

DBs (either NBs or returners or both)
Dustin Fox (http://ohiostatebuckeyes.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/fox_dustin00.html)
Antonio Perkins (http://www.soonersports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=2470&SPID=190&DB_OEM_ID=300&ATCLID=11604&Q_SEASON=2004)
PacMan Jones (http://www.msnsportsnet.com/profile.cfm?id=100062&sport=football)
Derrick Johnson (http://gohuskies.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/johnson_derrick00.html)
Ronald Bartell (sorry- no bio at bisonmania; 6-3 200+ 4.4)

some guys are underclassmen, others will be off the board by our pick
I'll post some QBs, Oline, and more DBs later

ArlingtonTexan
12-24-2004, 04:44 PM
[QUOTE=astrofan]pass rush does not come from DEs in 3-4.

I went through this one earlier this week and will do a copy and paste job for ya... from another thread on this board.

Oh, and by the way the front 3 are not pass rushers in the 3-4


It is a myth that the D-linemen in 3-4 are not expected to generate pass rush. Their 1st, but not ONLY, duty is to tie upblockers to free the linebackers, next is to stuff the run, and finally create an inside pass rush. they are not the primary pass rushesr, but those 3 guys have to generate some pass rush.

DL leaders from the other 3-4 teams.
Smith-Pittsburg (8.5)
Douglas-Baltimore (5.5)
Seymour-NE(5)
williams-Sd (4)
Payne/Smith -texans (2 each)

No great sack totals but those guys are generate some pass rush.

Also, 4 of the top 6 DLman are FA. The team literally needs bodies. it is a more urgent situation.

Not really wanting to give those guys too much credit, but The Texans have went from like #31 in offense this year to somewhere in the middle of the pack, (think like 14 or 15 in yards and 21 in points). The offense is better in virtuely every category, scoring, 1st downs, time of possession, yards. While the OL is probably what keeps the offense from being better saying that the OL has nothing to do with across the board improvement would be irresponsible.

the texans have actually spent a ton of money in both lines and neither is performing up to the investment that has been made.

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#37 1 Day Ago
infantrycak
Super Moderator Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Houston, TX
Age: 37
Posts: 1,357




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To follow up on AT's comments--Gary Walker 2002 6.5 sacks--2004 0.5 sacks. You will not see 13 sacks from a 3-4 DE, but 6 on one side 4 on the other and 8-12 from each OLB is what builds a Capers D. Robaire needs to show he can adapt to the 3-4 and Walker needs to show he deserved his signing bonus next year. JMO, but Payne will be fine at NT.

astrofan
12-24-2004, 07:38 PM
of course you want some pressure from the downlineman, but the way I read fresno8's post it seems like he would like a freeney/kearse edgerusher
so do I... I just want him to get a running start on a LT

ArlingtonTexan
12-24-2004, 08:17 PM
of course you want some pressure from the downlineman, but the way I read fresno8's post it seems like he would like a freeney/kearse edgerusher
so do I... I just want him to get a running start on a LT

:rofl: :cool:

LBC_Justin
12-24-2004, 09:45 PM
As long as we make strides to improve our Defense I will be happy.

beerlover
12-25-2004, 01:08 AM
some really fine posts Texans. for those of you so inclined & can't get enough of inside the minds of GM's check out this article and its relationship to any professional team, including our own beloved Texans and the thought processes involved making draft day decisons-

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/archive/2004/12/24/SPG0AAGTP61.DTL

fresno8
12-26-2004, 03:04 AM
I realize in the 3-4 you need a Babin/Suggs to generate a pass rush and that's not the interior linemans main job. However our front three don't do anything, they get no pass rush and don't stop the run. I've watched all the games and we get blown off the ball. Some pass rush has to be made by the front three. However it lies w/ in the outside backers to get the main push, but the way our d plays our d-lineman get pushed right into the backers way and they can't get to the QB. And we don't have a Suggs/Posey/Colvin getting after the passer. If the main objective of the 3-4 is to have outside backers pressure the QB why doesn't Peek play more? I know they say he's bad a against the run but isn't that the d-lines job and ILB. I think One pass rushing end to complement Smith w/ a new 2-gap nose tackle will set a solid foundation for our D-line for the 3-4 for years to come. Another speed rusher is needed off the edge even if it's just for passing situations and 3rd downs for a year or two.

J-Man
12-29-2004, 06:12 PM
Great list AstroFan...

I will throw my two cents in on this...I think Dan Cody (as OLB) or Mathias Kiwanuka (as DE) would be excellent fits for us on the defense. One thing that I would like the Texans to look at is actually drafting a LB to play OLB. I understand that you need a larger guy to play OLB in the 3-4...I am thinking of an Ahmad Brooks (Virginia) type guy. He is 6'4, 250lbs...you don't need to teach him how to drop into coverage or man up a TE, he already knows how to function from a 2 point stance, and he has pass rush skills.

I think we should try and improve the O-line via free agency so that you have a plug-n-play guy instead of a project that you hope works out. If we don't go with some one for the defensive front 7 I think it wouldn't hurt to snap up the top TE, Heath Miller, if he falls to us.

Errant Hothy
12-29-2004, 06:29 PM
Another name to keep an eye on is Kirk Morrison, LB form San Diego State. Many have him listed as a first round talent; and could easily play MLB for us.

Other then that great list.

Human Highlight Reel
12-30-2004, 03:30 PM
Logically speaking to improve on a defense that's actually pretty good I say we draft a ballhawk safety, I hear that Georgia Safety is great, then I hear something about a Oklahoma Safety or maybe Shazzar from Michigan. That's first off, I respect Coleman and Glenn but we gotta get an upgrade back there.

Second Round we should be looking a D-Line, I'm not sure who's gonna be left but Walker and Payne aren't getting any young and they could use some fresh new legs coming in to give them a little rest, and groom him into the starting position for next year or the year after that. Eventually him and Robaire could caue lots of havoc on that line together.

third round I'd say look at a O lineman, this particular position I would say maybe look into free agency to upgrade it but if you don't wanna spend too much on a lineman in FA then take a shot at a lineman right here.

fourth Round I'd say maybe take a look at a ILB, hopefully we could upgrade that from FA but if not then be looking for a ILB that would fit in the 3-4 scheme, no telling who's left but I say take the best available one, cause there's not telliing how healthy Foreman is gonna be and No disrespect to Polk but we gotta have a upgrade there or at least an youth injection. with ROLB Wong, RILB Upgrade ILB, LILB Sharper and ROLB Babin we could have probably one of the hottest Lineback cores since John Mobley, Al Wilson and Ian Gold in Denver.

Rounds 5-7 just add depth maybe along the Oline and D-Line.

jacquescas
12-30-2004, 06:03 PM
Round 1. Take either DE Spears from LSU, or TE Heath Miller from Virginia. I know everyone will say we have spent alot of picks and money on a TE but none have been a hit, might as well get a sure thing, good blocking good catching TE.

Round 2. Offensive line, hopefully we wont throw money at Mannings guards that will both be free agents this year, interior lineman are drafted not signed. it ties the cap up badly.