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Kaiser Toro
09-11-2008, 04:57 PM
Though the team slipped behind the richest franchises in the National Football League, the Houston Texans are still reaping huge rewards for owner Bob McNair, according to this year’s financial ranking of NFL teams by Forbes magazine.

The Texans, which have yet to have a winning season since the franchise kicked off in 2000, are worth about $1.1 billion, the same as in 2007. The team slipped to No. 6 this year from No. 4 in 2007.

Meanwhile, the Dallas Cowboys maintained the top spot in the league ranking, with a value of $1.6 billion, followed at No. 3 by the Washington Redskins at $1.5 billion and New England Patriots at $1.3 billion. Vaulting past the Texans and breaking into the top five this year are the defending-Super Bowl-champion New York Giants and the New York Jets, both at $1.17 billion.

The Giants and Jets, which will share a new palatial stadium in 2009, reported the biggest percentage valuation gain year-over-year of 21 percent. The Texans’ value increased 7 percent from 2007.

Forbes reports the Texans’ operating income in 2007 at $43.9 million based on revenue of $239 million. Player salaries were $128 million in 2007, and gate receipts increased to $48 million.

The Cowboys made $30.6 million on $269 million in revenue in 2007. Player salaries were $137 million and gate receipts totaled $46 million.



http://www.bizjournals.com/austin/stories/2008/09/08/daily51.html?f=et51&ana=e_du

gtexan02
09-11-2008, 05:02 PM
This is why I hate when fans complain about wanting to cut cap space to "save McNair some money." Im all for saving cap space for signing new FAs, but if you don't need the money, why not keep the player. McNair is making out pretty well

Yankee_In_TX
09-11-2008, 05:42 PM
Texans will be happy - top 5 teams revenue share.

Double Barrel
09-11-2008, 05:49 PM
No doubt. A bad product for 6 years straight and continues to raise prices year after year. But, we continue to buy said bad product at raised prices, so I suppose we have nobody to blame but ourselves.

Hookem Horns
09-11-2008, 06:38 PM
No doubt. A bad product for 6 years straight and continues to raise prices year after year. But, we continue to buy said bad product at raised prices, so I suppose we have nobody to blame but ourselves.

If the fans don't suck it up and continue to pay the higher prices for a bad product then they are considered fickle and bad fans, not wise consumers. For some reason consumer logic doesn't exist in sports.

I can only imagine how high the prices would be jacked up if the Texans were winning. Just look at UT.

Double Barrel
09-11-2008, 07:07 PM
If the fans don't suck it up and continue to pay the higher prices for a bad product then they are considered fickle and bad fans, not wise consumers. For some reason consumer logic doesn't exist in sports.

I can only imagine how high the prices would be jacked up if the Texans were winning. Just look at UT.

Good points.

So when I hear that the Texans and Bob McNair are so, so rich....I just have a hard time seeing through the corporate greed sometimes. It's tough to have "passion" for a below average product that just keeps increasing in price. It's almost the definition of insanity. But, then again, I've been wearing a hard hat to football games for the past six years, so what do I know...

Second Honeymoon
09-11-2008, 07:24 PM
Bob needs to pony up the dough and bring in a real coaching staff and some top tier Free Agents. This bargain basement Wades, Weavers, and Greenwoods needs to go away.

We could have had Jenkins, Justin Smith, Samuel, or even Faneca this offseason amongst many other quality players....what did we get? chris brown, colvin, reeves? talk about the bargain pile...you get what you pay for McNair. But Kubiak and Co. think they know more than us fans, so they will go the way of the Casserley soon.

thunderkyss
09-11-2008, 07:39 PM
I'd like a winning season, I'd like a superbowl.........

I like to gripe.

Win or lose, I'm buying my season tickets, I love McNair, and I love this team.

Kaiser Toro
09-11-2008, 08:11 PM
It is a bad product to date, but at least we got one. The prices keep going up and yes we will continue to pay, because we want that ticket and the opportunity to be there when it turns around.

The next dip (twenty years away) after some winning seasons will be the fulcrum point in my opinion - lack of interest, McNair getting older, lease will be coming up, etc. But right now, the market will continue to *****, yet show their hope through their pocketbook.

Double Barrel
09-12-2008, 10:57 AM
It is a bad product to date, but at least we got one. The prices keep going up and yes we will continue to pay, because we want that ticket and the opportunity to be there when it turns around.

The next dip (twenty years away) after some winning seasons will be the fulcrum point in my opinion - lack of interest, McNair getting older, lease will be coming up, etc. But right now, the market will continue to *****, yet show their hope through their pocketbook.

I agree with the 'at least we have a team' mentality. But, on the flip side, where is the incentive to really spend some money on top talent if the seats fill up regardless of winning or losing. Sad part is that the games are never full, so it's those PSL's and the hope for future success that keeps people and companies paying year after year.

I just have a wine taste on a beer salary. When my nose bleed ticket starts hitting around $1000/year, I might not be able to afford it at the end of the day. Family is priority. Texans are just entertainment at the end of the day.

cuppacoffee
09-12-2008, 11:52 AM
Good points.

So when I hear that the Texans and Bob McNair are so, so rich....I just have a hard time seeing through the corporate greed sometimes. It's tough to have "passion" for a below average product that just keeps increasing in price. It's almost the definition of insanity. But, then again, I've been wearing a hard hat to football games for the past six years, so what do I know...

Texans fans should all wear hard hats.........protection from the sky falling.


:coffee:

cuppacoffee
09-12-2008, 12:01 PM
I agree with the 'at least we have a team' mentality. But, on the flip side, where is the incentive to really spend some money on top talent if the seats fill up regardless of winning or losing. Sad part is that the games are never full, so it's those PSL's and the hope for future success that keeps people and companies paying year after year.

I just have a wine taste on a beer salary. When my nose bleed ticket starts hitting around $1000/year, I might not be able to afford it at the end of the day. Family is priority. Texans are just entertainment at the end of the day.


I've been to one game..friend of my son got freebies, that's the only way I was able to attend.

There is nothing like being there. I had season tickets to the Oilers many years ago. Believe it or not they were $7 each and parking was $3, no damm psls. There was no tailgating (Bud sucks big time). Shows you where I am financially, when the tickets went up..I walked.

Double Barrel
09-12-2008, 12:15 PM
Texans fans should all wear hard hats.........protection from the sky falling.


:coffee:

LOL! I like that. I hope you don't mind if I use it for a sig, with all due credit of course. :thumbup

Texan_Bill
09-12-2008, 12:23 PM
I thought all Texans fans already wore hardhats.....


http://www.texansbullpen.com/08photogallery/Preseason/2008-08-28-Buccaneers-Texans/Fans/DSC_0674.JPG

cuppacoffee
09-12-2008, 02:08 PM
LOL! I like that. I hope you don't mind if I use it for a sig, with all due credit of course. :thumbup


Makes me proud...I'm being quoted in a good light for a change.:D


:coffee:

cuppacoffee
09-12-2008, 02:21 PM
I thought all Texans fans already wore hardhats.....


http://www.texansbullpen.com/08photogallery/Preseason/2008-08-28-Buccaneers-Texans/Fans/DSC_0674.JPG

Any posters among that handsome?:wacko: bunch...:jk:

:coffee:

GP
09-12-2008, 03:56 PM
I'm with SH on this one.

You all are very aware that I think Bob McNair, while a nice guy and a GREAT guy for bringing pro football back to Houston, is not approaching this from the perspective of a guy who lives and breathes NFL football.

IMO, there are "hobby" owners and then there are "business" owners.

A hobby owner is in the game with the attitude of: "I want to win. I want to smash my opponents."

A business owner is in it to watch the bottom line, tweak the expense/income ratios, and basically be a numbers geek. His glory is in making the team a top performer on the financial stat books.

When I saw Cowher crying as he hands the trophy to Rooney, that sent a feeling through me like nothing else: Here is a team, an organization, that really has a climate of success built into it. The t-r-o-p-h-y is the prize.

Sometimes you wonder if McNair's idea of being a champion is being wealthy and staying profitable, at all costs, rather than winning a silver trophy. It's getting to the point, for me, that I am beginning to value the Daniel Snyders and the Jerry Jones type owners more and more in spite of how I felt about them up until recently: They might be arrogant, they might be cold and appear to be silly sometimes with their roster moves, but they are TRYING.

Anybody who trots out our LBs (minus DeMeco) and our secondary (minus D-Rob) and our dline (minus Mario, and maybe Okoye) and says our owner is TRYING...well, whatever. We can't have one high-caliber player in the LB, one high-caliber player on the Dline, and one high-caliber player in the secondary, and a timid defensive coordinator, and say that our owner is reallllly taking care of the fans' best interests.

The running back position, all by itself, is a testimony to this.

That sort of article pi$$e$ me off, and only serves to reinforce my idea that we are the L.A. Clippers of the NFL: Profitable, folksy and charming, but never in the playoffs.

I am glad I don't live in Houston. The only money I spend is on Sunday Ticket, and the past few years I've been hesitant to even renew THAT.

(Sigh)

Second Honeymoon
09-12-2008, 05:15 PM
GP,

With the way Sunday Ticket has been increasing in cost annually you can pretty much get a decent season ticket for around the same cost as One Year of NFL Sunday Ticket especially if your ponying up for HD/SuperFan.

It's only 10 games so the season ticket price isn't the problem. Our money is only a pithy fraction to what McNair really brings in with TV money, advertising/partnerships, and merchandising. Any NFL owner that says they aren't making money is a red faced liar. Even the Bills make money in Buffalo, a dying industrial city. McNair needs to just pony up and bring in some quality coaching and quality players. This is Houston and we deserve quality football, darnit.

texanmojo
09-12-2008, 06:25 PM
Don't fool yourself. All the NFL owners are in it for 1 thing...MONEY. The championship is always a second thought, regardless of what the ownsers say. When an owner tells you they want to win a championship, it's an advertising campaign. The campaign has both you and me hooked and we spend our money on tickets, gear, etc.

Don't get me wrong. I'm guilty of buying into the hype as well. I buy the season tickets, the t-shirts and the hope that we will win a championship.

Remember...people don't go into business to lose money...regardless of the product they are selling.




Its a marketingYou don't go into business to NOT make money.

GP
09-12-2008, 07:17 PM
Don't fool yourself. All the NFL owners are in it for 1 thing...MONEY. The championship is always a second thought, regardless of what the ownsers say. When an owner tells you they want to win a championship, it's an advertising campaign. The campaign has both you and me hooked and we spend our money on tickets, gear, etc.

Don't get me wrong. I'm guilty of buying into the hype as well. I buy the season tickets, the t-shirts and the hope that we will win a championship.

Remember...people don't go into business to lose money...regardless of the product they are selling.




Its a marketingYou don't go into business to NOT make money.

See, I don't necessarily think so.

Does a hobby owner watch the bottom line? Obviously he does, because guys like Faneca can't hold a team hostage over a big contract...but by the same token, the hobby owner doesn't mind spending the capital on quality players AND coaches. He sees it in the same way that a stamp collector eyes his next prize: If he wants it, he finds a way to get it.

I think Bob McNair, while STILL being a nice guy with a pleasant demeanor and sharp looking buisness attire and glad-handing former presidents, is not AS interested in winning as a few other "old school" owners.

And here's where people reply "Old school? Like Al Davis? All he does is overpay with worse reults thhan mcNair."

Davis has too much loyalty to certain coaches, AND he meddles in the day-to-day affairs too much.

Rooney Family is the sort of owner I am talking about: Impassioned, been around the block, and lets people do their jobs. Smart team all the way around.

Kaiser Toro
09-12-2008, 07:55 PM
I agree with the 'at least we have a team' mentality. But, on the flip side, where is the incentive to really spend some money on top talent if the seats fill up regardless of winning or losing. Sad part is that the games are never full, so it's those PSL's and the hope for future success that keeps people and companies paying year after year.

I just have a wine taste on a beer salary. When my nose bleed ticket starts hitting around $1000/year, I might not be able to afford it at the end of the day. Family is priority. Texans are just entertainment at the end of the day.

I know it is entertainment and did not intend to make this a discussion on who can afford what. Heck the Texans and my concert festivals are the only extras I have spent on my self this year.

There will always be incentive if he is a businessman as he has many LOB's around the core product. Admittedly, I only know the guy as the Texans owner and do not have a feel for how he and his other businesses conduct themsleves.

texanmojo
09-12-2008, 09:51 PM
See, I don't necessarily think so.

Does a hobby owner watch the bottom line? Obviously he does, because guys like Faneca can't hold a team hostage over a big contract...but by the same token, the hobby owner doesn't mind spending the capital on quality players AND coaches. He sees it in the same way that a stamp collector eyes his next prize: If he wants it, he finds a way to get it.

I think Bob McNair, while STILL being a nice guy with a pleasant demeanor and sharp looking buisness attire and glad-handing former presidents, is not AS interested in winning as a few other "old school" owners.

And here's where people reply "Old school? Like Al Davis? All he does is overpay with worse reults thhan mcNair."

Davis has too much loyalty to certain coaches, AND he meddles in the day-to-day affairs too much.

Rooney Family is the sort of owner I am talking about: Impassioned, been around the block, and lets people do their jobs. Smart team all the way around.


That's all fine and good, but the bottom line is that the owners are not in this for the joy of being an owner. They are in it for making money. At the end of the day, thats ultimately what drives them and the championship is a bonus as it drives more cash to their pockets.

GP
09-13-2008, 02:11 PM
That's all fine and good, but the bottom line is that the owners are not in this for the joy of being an owner. They are in it for making money. At the end of the day, thats ultimately what drives them and the championship is a bonus as it drives more cash to their pockets.

Well, we don't agree. And that's OK.

I think the guys who started out as owners, way back when, are the type of guys who want to stay afloat financially and maybe make a little coin if they were lucky (the team is not their only source of revenue) but yet they also were in it for the primary reason of "pride."

That leaks over into the fan base: Wherever you see a rabid fan base (Green Bay, Dallas, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, etc.) I think it's a reflection of a team whose ownership is honestly trying to win first and foremost.

Bob McNair reminds me of a grandfather-type who sends his grandkids money on special occasions, is always on time with the cards, and has the photos of the grandkids on the wall at his house...but he can't seem to break away from his power lunches and other interests to make it to the grandkids' parties, games, recitals, etc.

That's not a water-tight analogy, but it's all I got right now: The weak capital flow to areas that matter, such as coaching where there is NO cap ramifications (only Bob's own spending limit is the "real" limit here) scream "I care, but yet I don't realllllly care" to me. Throwing $8 million at David Carr was Bob's way of saying "Gee whiz! He's a nice guy, he's a sharp-looking kid. Isn't there ANY way this can work out?" When other owners are actively LOOKING for ways to rid themselves of dead weight like David Carr.

There's NO other explanation as to why Richard Smith was chosen as defensive coordinator of an NFL team that has one of the best facilities in the country to promise its players. I defy anyone to give me a logical answer as to why, in this day and age, we had to choose Richard Smith when we all know that, as "The Million Dollar Man" Ted Dibiase would say, "We ALL have a price!" Coaching salaries affect Bob's wallet d-i-r-e-c-t-l-y and it cuts into his profitability stats that we do so well in each year. It's why I laugh OUT LOUD when people continually say "Man! We're going to free up some cap space, finally!" So what. We don't use it. Ever. (Puts hand over mouth and makes the "wet fart" noise). If anything, Bob is dancing in his office singing: "Yes! We have more cap space. Somebody just got more PROFITABLE! Cha-ching, biatches!"

Second Honeymoon gets ragged a lot for his thoughts on this issue, but I don't think he's too far off in his assessment of these sorts of things. While we did make strides since Capers/Casserly, I don't think Gary Kubiak gets us over the top. I think he turns out to be a guy who stopped the bleeding and sets up the next guy. Tony Dungy did that when he took over for Mora: Mora was doing OK, but things just clicked when Dungy arrived.

I wanna' be wrong, but I'm not too thrilled that Kubiak seems to be OK with leaving Richard Smith in as DC for this long. That's a concern, IMO, that gets stronger with each passing week. But hell, he will turn the dogs loose in the last three games and BAM! he's back, baby.

We need The Chin.

texanmojo
09-14-2008, 04:09 PM
Well, we don't agree. And that's OK.

Nope...we don't...and that's perfectly ok. I certainly understand where you are coming from on your points. I just see the ownership thing differently. It doesn't make me right...or you right...its just an opinion.

Thanks!
TM

GP
09-14-2008, 05:23 PM
Nope...we don't...and that's perfectly ok. I certainly understand where you are coming from on your points. I just see the ownership thing differently. It doesn't make me right...or you right...its just an opinion.

Thanks!
TM

Well I can't get pissed at a guy who apparently owns a box truck painted in Texans colors and decals.

Is that yours? That is freaking awesome.

texanmojo
09-14-2008, 11:49 PM
Well I can't get pissed at a guy who apparently owns a box truck painted in Texans colors and decals.

Is that yours? That is freaking awesome.

No...I don't own it. A friend of TexanMojo bought it for us, the the Preacher Man paid to have it painted and decaled. He also maintains and stores the vehicle. I would call Preacher Man the owner.

KEYE SUX
09-15-2008, 02:44 AM
Well, we don't agree. And that's OK.

I think the guys who started out as owners, way back when, are the type of guys who want to stay afloat financially and maybe make a little coin if they were lucky (the team is not their only source of revenue) but yet they also were in it for the primary reason of "pride."

That leaks over into the fan base: Wherever you see a rabid fan base (Green Bay, Dallas, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, etc.) I think it's a reflection of a team whose ownership is honestly trying to win first and foremost.

Bob McNair reminds me of a grandfather-type who sends his grandkids money on special occasions, is always on time with the cards, and has the photos of the grandkids on the wall at his house...but he can't seem to break away from his power lunches and other interests to make it to the grandkids' parties, games, recitals, etc.

That's not a water-tight analogy, but it's all I got right now: The weak capital flow to areas that matter, such as coaching where there is NO cap ramifications (only Bob's own spending limit is the "real" limit here) scream "I care, but yet I don't realllllly care" to me. Throwing $8 million at David Carr was Bob's way of saying "Gee whiz! He's a nice guy, he's a sharp-looking kid. Isn't there ANY way this can work out?" When other owners are actively LOOKING for ways to rid themselves of dead weight like David Carr.

There's NO other explanation as to why Richard Smith was chosen as defensive coordinator of an NFL team that has one of the best facilities in the country to promise its players. I defy anyone to give me a logical answer as to why, in this day and age, we had to choose Richard Smith when we all know that, as "The Million Dollar Man" Ted Dibiase would say, "We ALL have a price!" Coaching salaries affect Bob's wallet d-i-r-e-c-t-l-y and it cuts into his profitability stats that we do so well in each year. It's why I laugh OUT LOUD when people continually say "Man! We're going to free up some cap space, finally!" So what. We don't use it. Ever. (Puts hand over mouth and makes the "wet fart" noise). If anything, Bob is dancing in his office singing: "Yes! We have more cap space. Somebody just got more PROFITABLE! Cha-ching, biatches!"

Second Honeymoon gets ragged a lot for his thoughts on this issue, but I don't think he's too far off in his assessment of these sorts of things. While we did make strides since Capers/Casserly, I don't think Gary Kubiak gets us over the top. I think he turns out to be a guy who stopped the bleeding and sets up the next guy. Tony Dungy did that when he took over for Mora: Mora was doing OK, but things just clicked when Dungy arrived.

I wanna' be wrong, but I'm not too thrilled that Kubiak seems to be OK with leaving Richard Smith in as DC for this long. That's a concern, IMO, that gets stronger with each passing week. But hell, he will turn the dogs loose in the last three games and BAM! he's back, baby.

We need The Chin.

Well, I don't know dollar wise how we compare to other teams but we do have more coaches than the other teams in the division. Coaches let the HC/GM/OWNER know of what "holes" they have and their plan to fix said holes. It does take time and no coach is perfect. If you changed coaches every year you would never get better. As for Carr, people think they can fix him. That is why he is still on a roster. It took a year for Kubiak to realize that and he was gone. I doubt McNair was the one insisting on him staying. As for Smith, I personally think we have given him the talent AND time to get the D going. Am I going to base my decision after 1 game. No, it takes a couple years for D rooks to adjust to NFL. At the same time I do believe he is on the hot seat and that, if we don't like like the D of the end of last year by midseason and then improve from there, he will be gone this year.

FYI I thought Carr was going to be gone for a couple years before he was let go.

Double Barrel
09-16-2008, 12:49 PM
To paraphrase Vinny: "The Houston Texans is a marketing company with a football division."

McNair is a billionaire. He doesn't need the money. He doesn't need the football team to be a money making venture to get rich. He's already there.

So what is the problem? Why don't we hire 'big name' coaches and high priced free agents that can immediately impact the team?

Maybe because there is no incentive to do so. The Texans stink year after year, but the fans continue to SELL OUT the stadium (big difference in selling out seats and actually attending the games to use those same seats).

And that's my original point. What other industry can continually put out a bad product year after year and still reap huge dividends?

I don't blame the guy for trying to make (more) money. This is a capitalistic society for the time being, so that's the nature of the market. But as a consumer, it's tough to be a passionate fanatic for a franchise that cannot sport a winning record, and as a consumer, it's getting tougher and tougher to not only support the yearly increased purchase, but to justify it, as well.

So when I read an article like this, the consumer side of me is starting to weigh more than the fanatic side. If McNair wants it to be just about business, then perhaps the consumer side of me sees it for what it is at the end of the day. This team has never really earned the diehard passion we give it, not in the same way that teams traditionally build it through winning seasons and championship runs. We have given the 16 year old a nice car to drive without that same teenager getting a driver's license first.

JMO :howdy:

kastofsna
09-16-2008, 02:37 PM
yeah the Cubs have been selling tons of tickets for over a hundred years, the owners never really had a reason to try and go for a championship

GP
09-16-2008, 04:06 PM
To paraphrase Vinny: "The Houston Texans is a marketing company with a football division."

McNair is a billionaire. He doesn't need the money. He doesn't need the football team to be a money making venture to get rich. He's already there.

So what is the problem? Why don't we hire 'big name' coaches and high priced free agents that can immediately impact the team?

Maybe because there is no incentive to do so. The Texans stink year after year, but the fans continue to SELL OUT the stadium (big difference in selling out seats and actually attending the games to use those same seats).

And that's my original point. What other industry can continually put out a bad product year after year and still reap huge dividends?

I don't blame the guy for trying to make (more) money. This is a capitalistic society for the time being, so that's the nature of the market. But as a consumer, it's tough to be a passionate fanatic for a franchise that cannot sport a winning record, and as a consumer, it's getting tougher and tougher to not only support the yearly increased purchase, but to justify it, as well.

So when I read an article like this, the consumer side of me is starting to weigh more than the fanatic side. If McNair wants it to be just about business, then perhaps the consumer side of me sees it for what it is at the end of the day. This team has never really earned the diehard passion we give it, not in the same way that teams traditionally build it through winning seasons and championship runs. We have given the 16 year old a nice car to drive without that same teenager getting a driver's license first.

JMO :howdy:

Man, I don't know what to say.

If anybody wants Houston Pro Football, then you have to "buy" this product to some degree. It's called a monopoly, and this is a great model for teaching people why dictatorships don't work out so well for the little man--As momma would say "You get what you get, and you don't throw a fit."

People are too quick to praise Bob McNair for bringing football back to Houston. I think the honeymoon of "having pro football back in Houston" is drawing to an end. Or it should be, at least.

At some point, the product has to taste good. Or has to deliver, somehow.

But, a real fan also sticks to the team even when the chips are down.

It's a catch-22.

The real jokers in this whole deal, the ones who throw a monkey wrench into it, IMO, are the casual (but wealthy) Texans fans who purchases the tickets just to bring along some business partners or other V.I.P.s to woo or schmooze with...a diversion in terms of "This will be something to do with Jerry and Pam when there's nothing else going on." So their company has some PSLs that the boss auctions off each week: "Hey, anybody want these seats to the Texans game on Sunday?" I bet a few people are nodding their heads as I type this.

Meanwhile, the normal and passionate fan (you and I) buys the Texans memorablia, logo'd items to decorate our house with, etc. You bought your season tickets, but the price you paid for them far exceeds that of the casual fan because your purchase of all things Texans is a STAMP of approval upon the team (it's a vote FOR the team), or at least it does in your mind. You saved up money to get them, probably did away with other expensive hobbies or limited your other interests, and you spend the whole day on Sunday with your friends at the stadium.

We don't add nearly as much to Bob's financial stat book as the wealthy fan(s) who are not really following the team like we are. And the casual fan will STILL scoop up those tickets if we don't, at normal going price, whether we had a good team or not.

Someone should pay a piper to stroll through town and then hook back down toward the gulf coast.