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Ali4Real
09-07-2008, 05:00 PM
The Texans were blown out :cry2:by the Steelers in there season opener, here are some facts and things I noticed:

Passing Yards - 202

Rushing Yards - 75

Total yards - 277

1st Downs - 19

TOs - 3

Pen./Pen. Yards - 5/43

*Info. according to Yahoo Sports*


Things I noticed:

1.) DBs sucked. Reeves was horrible and had a BIG cushion against his WR.

2.) Casey Hampton got the best of our "undersized" O-linemen.

3.) We such against the blitz, we NEED to work on this.

4.) Zach Diles and DeMeco Ryans were great with a combined 25 tackles.

5.) Mario Williams was a best w/ 4 tackles and 2 sacks on Big Ben.

6.) Was Amobi Okoye even on the field b/c he didn't do anything special!


What are ur thoughts?

J-Russ
09-07-2008, 05:02 PM
Here's my post-game analysis:

http://www.bradfitzpatrick.com/store/images/products/preview/ee004-cartoon-poop-clipart.jpg

FirstTexansFan
09-07-2008, 05:05 PM
1.) DBs sucked. Reeves was horrible and had a BIG cushion against his WR.

What are ur thoughts?

The only point I disagree with. The problem corner today was Bennett. Hines Ward took the boy to school. Reeves overall played a decent game, seemed to play tight on his coverage, and I even spotted him once looking back for the ball, which in Pre-Season concerned me.

CloakNNNdagger
09-07-2008, 05:11 PM
The only point I disagree with. The problem corner today was Bennett. Hines Ward took the boy to school. Reeves overall played a decent game, seemed to play tight on his coverage, and I even spotted him once looking back for the ball, which in Pre-Season concerned me.

You saw it as I did.

CloakNNNdagger
09-07-2008, 05:17 PM
The Texans were blown out :cry2:by the Steelers in there season opener, here are some facts and things I noticed:

Passing Yards - 202

Rushing Yards - 75

Total yards - 277

1st Downs - 19

TOs - 3

Pen./Pen. Yards - 5/43

*Info. according to Yahoo Sports*


Things I noticed:

1.) DBs sucked. Reeves was horrible and had a BIG cushion against his WR.

2.) Casey Hampton got the best of our "undersized" O-linemen.

3.) We such against the blitz, we NEED to work on this.

4.) Zach Diles and DeMeco Ryans were great with a combined 25 tackles.

5.) Mario Williams was a best w/ 4 tackles and 2 sacks on Big Ben.

6.) Was Amobi Okoye even on the field b/c he didn't do anything special!


What are ur thoughts?

Our LBs were so busy trying to cover the run.............they were all but non-existent as the "2nd line of defense" BEHIND the DL with dump passes or passes just past the LOS. It was always the secondary that eventually and I mean eventually engaged.........and that wasn't by design which was also nonexistent.

DBCooper
09-07-2008, 05:19 PM
The only point I disagree with. The problem corner today was Bennett. Hines Ward took the boy to school. Reeves overall played a decent game, seemed to play tight on his coverage, and I even spotted him once looking back for the ball, which in Pre-Season concerned me.


I agree. Reeves did decent.

The breakdown was in the middle of the field. Linebackers, linemen, on Ward? Give me a break.

The Dream
09-07-2008, 05:19 PM
Here's my post-game analysis:

http://www.bradfitzpatrick.com/store/images/products/preview/ee004-cartoon-poop-clipart.jpg

u think we played like brown pudding????

Big Lou
09-07-2008, 05:20 PM
Bottom line the Texans sucked today. Hopefully Schaub will shake this off and the ZBS will get better (God help us).

With all that said I'm going to whine a little and be a poor sportsman:

THEY WERE DESTINED TO LOSE THE WAY THEY PLAYED, BUT WHAT F'ING GAME WERE THE OFFICIALS WATCHING. ALMOST EVERY BIG RUN BY PARKER IN THE FIRST HALF WAS THE RESULT OF HOLDING. FOR SOME REASON WHEN THE STEELERS HELD IT WAS INVISABLE.

ALSO ON ONE OF THE INT'S BY SCHAUB THE STEELERS DAMN NEAR TACKLED THE TEXAN THAT WAS TRYING TO MAKE THE TACKLE.

It seems some teams like KC and PIT are just allowed to hold. If the Texans could get away with as much holding who'd need the damn ZBS.

I don't think there is some kind of comspiricy and I don't think the officials are corrupt, but sometimes it just can't be explained!!!!!!!!!!!

DBCooper
09-07-2008, 05:22 PM
Bottom line the Texans sucked today. Hopefully Schaub will shake this off and the ZBS will get better (God help us).

With all that said I'm going to whine a little and be a poor sportsman:

THEY WERE DESTINED TO LOSE THE WAY THEY PLAYED, BUT WHAT F'ING GAME WERE THE OFFICIALS WATCHING. ALMOST EVERY BIG RUN BY PARKER IN THE FIRST HALF WAS THE RESULT OF HOLDING. FOR SOME REASON WHEN THE STEELERS HELD IT WAS INVISABLE.

ALSO ON ONE OF THE INT'S BY SCHAUB THE STEELERS DAMN NEAR TACKLED THE TEXAN THAT WAS TRYING TO MAKE THE TACKLE.

It seems some teams like KC and PIT are just allowed to hold. If the Texans could get away with as much holding who'd need the damn ZBS.

I don't think there is some kind of comspiricy and I don't think the officials are corrupt, but sometimes it just can't be explained!!!!!!!!!!!

Holding. Yeah that's it.

GP
09-07-2008, 05:23 PM
We just played a very superior team today.

No analysis needed.

Everyone not named Mario Williams and Andre Johnson was a non-factor today.

Texan JBZ
09-07-2008, 05:24 PM
Analysis? How about this: The Steelers kicked our f&*$^&g ass today!

Dread-Head
09-07-2008, 05:26 PM
It just hurts so damned MUCH!

yinzer
09-07-2008, 05:26 PM
Bottom line the Texans sucked today. Hopefully Schaub will shake this off and the ZBS will get better (God help us).

With all that said I'm going to whine a little and be a poor sportsman:

THEY WERE DESTINED TO LOSE THE WAY THEY PLAYED, BUT WHAT F'ING GAME WERE THE OFFICIALS WATCHING. ALMOST EVERY BIG RUN BY PARKER IN THE FIRST HALF WAS THE RESULT OF HOLDING. FOR SOME REASON WHEN THE STEELERS HELD IT WAS INVISABLE.

ALSO ON ONE OF THE INT'S BY SCHAUB THE STEELERS DAMN NEAR TACKLED THE TEXAN THAT WAS TRYING TO MAKE THE TACKLE.

It seems some teams like KC and PIT are just allowed to hold. If the Texans could get away with as much holding who'd need the damn ZBS.

I don't think there is some kind of comspiricy and I don't think the officials are corrupt, but sometimes it just can't be explained!!!!!!!!!!!

right. you guys lost because of holding.... gimme a friggin break. at least accept your arse whipping like a man! you KNEW this was going to happen. it's amazing how people can still make excuses after a good ol' fashion shalacking like that.

buddyboy
09-07-2008, 05:27 PM
We just played a very superior team today.


Quoted for truth.

powerfuldragon
09-07-2008, 05:30 PM
why's there a smiley face next to this thread title?

Joe Texan
09-07-2008, 05:32 PM
that was absolutely the mosty piss poor prepared team to enter a season and I would have to say we put Houston High School on the feild and the they put the steelers and the second team steelers on the feild.

I am stating now that I retract the stand behind Schaub and say he is not a NFL starter

Where was Sage and why Gary did you not try to win the game today

Coaching gets an F

Defense (except for Mario and thats that) F

Offense gets F and Coach get another F for this mistake.

If you can substitute fumbleitis Jones for Andre Davis on the return

Why do you not substitute interseption Shaub for Sage.

Horrible coaching job altogether get FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF, Get it together by next week coaches or some heads are gonna roll.

Hervoyel
09-07-2008, 05:34 PM
The only point I disagree with. The problem corner today was Bennett. Hines Ward took the boy to school. Reeves overall played a decent game, seemed to play tight on his coverage, and I even spotted him once looking back for the ball, which in Pre-Season concerned me.

Bennett got smacked around a lot today. Hines Ward was laughing at him most of the afternoon. It almost looked like the Steelers intentionally ignored Reeves for a while and concentrated on showing us that our "#1" sucked just as bad as our Dallas retread. He lost his composure a couple of times during the game.

Of course so many of our guys looked so lousy that it was hard for anyones bad game in particular to stand out.

texanhead08
09-07-2008, 05:34 PM
My analysis of the game today is losing sucks.

Brando
09-07-2008, 05:55 PM
I liked that we went for it on 4th and 1. We should have at least got another set of downs. Piss poor officiating on that spot.

Schaub made some poor decisions. He needs to correct this. Any chance of us winning went down the drain when he threw the INT's.

Demeco and Mario is the only defensive players that showed up today.

Green made it through 1 game healthy! How about that? lol

I still don't see what CC Brown does as far as coverage but he does play the run decent.

Any team that utilizes the TE as a weapon in their offense will give the Texans problems as long as we have our current LB corps(other than Demeco) and CC Brown.


Daniels took a good hit and was still able to hold on to the ball.

We played a Super Bowl contender in my opinion and while I was expecting to come out of this game with a loss I was at least thinking that it would be a close game. That being said it's nice to get this one out of the way and with no major injuries....this game can only make us stronger from here on out. That being said we play a good defensive team next week but their offense is not as potent as the Steelers.

J-Russ
09-07-2008, 06:00 PM
Bennett got smacked around a lot today. Hines Ward was laughing at him most of the afternoon. It almost looked like the Steelers intentionally ignored Reeves for a while and concentrated on showing us that our "#1" sucked just as bad as our Dallas retread. He lost his composure a couple of times during the game.


That was true which makes it really sad. I don't know what to think of Bennett right now. There's been plenty of players around the league that had a great rookie year and then went on to be average for the rest of their career. One that pops in my mind is, Michael Clayton of Tampa Bay. We might've jumped the gun on Fred Bennett.

pancho
09-07-2008, 06:03 PM
Bottom line the Texans sucked today. Hopefully Schaub will shake this off and the ZBS will get better (God help us).

With all that said I'm going to whine a little and be a poor sportsman:

THEY WERE DESTINED TO LOSE THE WAY THEY PLAYED, BUT WHAT F'ING GAME WERE THE OFFICIALS WATCHING. ALMOST EVERY BIG RUN BY PARKER IN THE FIRST HALF WAS THE RESULT OF HOLDING. FOR SOME REASON WHEN THE STEELERS HELD IT WAS INVISABLE.

ALSO ON ONE OF THE INT'S BY SCHAUB THE STEELERS DAMN NEAR TACKLED THE TEXAN THAT WAS TRYING TO MAKE THE TACKLE.

It seems some teams like KC and PIT are just allowed to hold. If the Texans could get away with as much holding who'd need the damn ZBS.

I don't think there is some kind of comspiricy and I don't think the officials are corrupt, but sometimes it just can't be explained!!!!!!!!!!!

Anybody remember the Steelers beating the Seahawks in the Superbowl? Wrestling puts on a better performance. Its a wonder we treat this serious.

Marcus
09-07-2008, 06:08 PM
My analysis of this game . . . it turned out just as I expected . . . a blow out!

So, why didn't I state that in the prediction thread? I get called a negative nellie already, and those "go with my heart" prediction threads are just pathetic.

But based upon their performance in the preseason, this game's result was no surprise to me at all.

Whether you blame Richard Smith, the lack of talent, Kubiak, global warming, or my dog Spot . . . until we disrupt the QB . . . we SUCK!

FirstTexansFan
09-07-2008, 06:10 PM
My analysis of this game . . . it turned out just as I expected . . . a blow out!

So, why didn't I state that in the prediction thread? I get called a negative nellie already, and those "go with my heart" prediction threads are just pathetic.

But based upon their performance in the preseason, this game's result was no surprise to me at all.

Whether you blame Richard Smith, the lack of talent, Kubiak, global warming, or my dog Spot . . . until we disrupt the QB . . . we SUCK!


I'm gonna miss Spot :)

Hervoyel
09-07-2008, 06:10 PM
That was true which makes it really sad. I don't know what to think of Bennett right now. There's been plenty of players around the league that had a great rookie year and then went on to be average for the rest of their career. One that pops in my mind is, Michael Clayton of Tampa Bay. We might've jumped the gun on Fred Bennett.

And if we did then we're in for a long 6-8 weeks waiting on Dunta to return.

I thought John McClain of the Chronic pretty much nailed it on the grades. Everybody got an F except for the DL which got a D thanks to Mario's effort. The rest of them were just about worthless.

Schaub's interceptions today were very worrisome to me. I don't exactly know how to explain this but I think you'll all understand what I mean when I say that sometimes a QB "gets picked off" and other times he "throws an interception". In the first one a defender makes an excellent play on the ball and managed to make a turnover out of what seemed to be and should probably have been a good play. In the second the QB throws something really crappy out there right into a defender.

One is a great play to the defenders credit and the other is like a gift wrapped present from the QB to the other team. Today Schaub threw a couple of nicely wrapped presents and tried to keep on giving. He's got a bad habit of attempting ill advised throws that bothers me. Don't get me wrong, Sage does the same damn thing. It's just that when Schaub is off and doing this we have no chance at all of landing in the "W" column.

I am worried about it because we have no running game and I keep reading where people say that we are and should be a pass-first team because of that. I can find no fault in that except that I think we have a couple of QB's who are effective best on a run-first team. They have to have the running game working to be able to get things cooking with the play action passes. These guys aren't going to drop back and pick people apart for very long without the threat of a running game. With that threat they're capable of getting on a roll and doing some major damage. We've seen both of them do that in the past.

We must have a running game and it has to be not only credible but even borderline dominant. We are in deep doo-doo without one.

Polo
09-07-2008, 06:13 PM
Schaub didn't surprise me today..I fully knew he was capable of games like this...When teams are pressuring him and our recievers don't get seperation he tends to start forcing things....that said...

I don't see one thread, and I really haven't seen one comment....

About the terrible play of the O-line, mainly our rookie LT...

Duane Brown was schooled...

DBCooper
09-07-2008, 06:14 PM
Schaub's interceptions today were very worrisome to me. I don't exactly know how to explain this but I think you'll all understand what I mean when I say that sometimes a QB "gets picked off" and other times he "throws an interception". In the first one a defender makes an excellent play on the ball and managed to make a turnover out of what seemed to be and should probably have been a good play. In the second the QB throws something really crappy out there right into a defender.




Schaub needs to settle down. Forcing those throws was horrible. He looked like he was not seeing the whole field. Other guys were more open on his errant passes. But that doesn't even touch on his bad accuracy.

FirstTexansFan
09-07-2008, 06:16 PM
Schaub needs to settle down. Forcing those throws was horrible. He looked like he was not seeing the whole field. Other guys were more open on his errant passes. But that doesn't even touch on his bad accuracy.

On his first interception, Andre was wide open ten yards further up the field....I want to thank DirectTV for my fine ability to slow mo on the DVR, good job guys ;)

Texan JBZ
09-07-2008, 06:19 PM
About the terrible play of the O-line, mainly our rookie LT...

Duane Brown was schooled...

He's a rookie and played like one. DC Dick Lebeau knew to attack him and to keep on attacking him, relentlessly. This is what real DCs do.

Maddict5
09-07-2008, 06:19 PM
Bennett got smacked around a lot today. Hines Ward was laughing at him most of the afternoon. It almost looked like the Steelers intentionally ignored Reeves for a while and concentrated on showing us that our "#1" sucked just as bad as our Dallas retread. He lost his composure a couple of times during the game.

Of course so many of our guys looked so lousy that it was hard for anyones bad game in particular to stand out.

That was true which makes it really sad. I don't know what to think of Bennett right now. There's been plenty of players around the league that had a great rookie year and then went on to be average for the rest of their career. One that pops in my mind is, Michael Clayton of Tampa Bay. We might've jumped the gun on Fred Bennett.

aaaaaahhh!!!!! the sky is falling!!!!

the kid had one bad game so we're going to forget all his good games so far and just assign him to the bust heap.. my god

Polo
09-07-2008, 06:19 PM
He's a rookie and played like one. DC Dick Lebeau knew to attack him and to keep on attacking him, relentlessly. This is what real DCs do.

He wasn't "attacked"...

He was beat one on one several times...

J-Russ
09-07-2008, 06:20 PM
Schaub didn't surprise me today..I fully knew he was capable of games like this...When teams are pressuring him and our recievers don't get seperation he tends to start forcing things....that said...

I don't see one thread, and I really haven't seen one comment....

About the terrible play of the O-line, mainly our rookie LT...

Duane Brown was schooled...

I don't care what kind of pressure was in Schuab face, you never throw a ball to a receiver when that reciever is cover front AND back by a defender. I mean for god sakes Lamar Woodley was right in front of our receiver on that first int.

You always have another option, and one of them is to throw it away. The second option is to take a sack and I rather him do that then make an absurd throw like that with the coverage.

Edit: random quote. We both agree on the forcing things when pressured.

Polo
09-07-2008, 06:21 PM
aaaaaahhh!!!!! the sky is falling!!!!

the kid had one bad game so we're going to forget all his good games so far and just assign him to the bust heap.. my god

Bennett isn't a number one corner...

Didn't see much today that I really didn't expect...

Texan JBZ
09-07-2008, 06:22 PM
He wasn't "attacked"...

He was beat one on one several times...

True, but they were coming from everywhere against him

Lucky
09-07-2008, 06:25 PM
On his first interception, Andre was wide open ten yards further up the field...
I saw that, too. Clearly, he's feeling the rush. It's not going to get any easier with the Ravens, Titans, and Jags coming up. Kubiak should consider some max protect plays until Schaub settles down.

ATXtexanfan
09-07-2008, 06:29 PM
it all went downhill after kubiak went for it on 4th and a foot. granted you would think we could get that foot but we are the texans. dont know why he handed the steelers the big MO in there house. oh well. it's just one game . baltimore is 1-0 though. here's to home field advantage

Goldensilence
09-07-2008, 06:31 PM
He's a rookie and played like one. DC Dick Lebeau knew to attack him and to keep on attacking him, relentlessly. This is what real DCs do.

You mean.... a DC takes into consideration match ups and can take advantage of them?

Thorn
09-07-2008, 06:32 PM
Not only are the Steelers a more talented team than we are, we showed up sucking wind from the get go. A classic mismatch. Get real folks, the Texans are not a playoff team yet. We do have talent but just aren't there yet. I'm looking for Kubiak to pull a rabbit out of his hat and we'll be 1-1 to start that horrible two game road trip.

FirstTexansFan
09-07-2008, 06:32 PM
it all went downhill after kubiak went for it on 4th and a foot. granted you would think we could get that foot but we are the texans. dont know why he handed the steelers the big MO in there house. oh well. it's just one game . baltimore is 1-0 though. here's to home field advantage

That is another play I've reviewed over and over. Can't tell from the camera angle where Schaub ended up, but, what I do see, is the ref on the far side clearly has it marked ahead of the sticks, while the ref on this side, the side we're unable to determine Schaub's progress, short of the sticks. Who marks the ball? The guy on this side. Clearly he was unable from his position to determine a proper mark. Not that I feel it makes one hill of beans to the outcome of the game, we were clearly outplayed.

Polo
09-07-2008, 06:33 PM
You mean.... a DC takes into consideration match ups and can take advantage of them?

What match-ups should our D-coordinator have taken advantage of ?

Bennet against Ward ?
Reeves on Holmes ?
Diles on Miller ?

Greenwood on Willie Parker ?
Weaver on anyone ?

Where exactly are all these match-ups to be taken advantage of ?

What is an area of strength for our defense ?

Speed ?
Power?
Experience?

What can our guys do well that we can use to exploit opposing offenses ?

Runner
09-07-2008, 06:36 PM
I saw that, too. Clearly, he's feeling the rush. It's not going to get any easier with the Ravens, Titans, and Jags coming up. Kubiak should consider some max protect plays until Schaub settles down.

Not with the dreaded two yard slants to Andre and dump-offs to the RB du jour, I hope.

Hervoyel
09-07-2008, 06:38 PM
aaaaaahhh!!!!! the sky is falling!!!!

the kid had one bad game so we're going to forget all his good games so far and just assign him to the bust heap.. my god

I did no such thing and I get very tired of other fans trying to tell me what I'm saying. Is there some kind of satisfaction that I'm not aware of that you guys get from standing back and pointing at other fans and proclaiming that THEY are chicken little's?

It's possible that he's not ready to go yet and that last year he played a little over his head. He had Dunta for most of it and then he had to go as the #1 but didn't get as much attention since Petey was so much fun to tear apart. I'm just saying (and I suspect J-Russ is in agreement) that maybe Bennett's just not ready to be the #1.

NBT
09-07-2008, 06:44 PM
The real season is such a reality check, isn't it?

Maddict5
09-07-2008, 06:46 PM
I did no such thing and I get very tired of other fans trying to tell me what I'm saying. Is there some kind of satisfaction that I'm not aware of that you guys get from standing back and pointing at other fans and proclaiming that THEY are chicken little's?

It's possible that he's not ready to go yet and that last year he played a little over his head. He had Dunta for most of it and then he had to go as the #1 but didn't get as much attention since Petey was so much fun to tear apart. I'm just saying (and I suspect J-Russ is in agreement) that maybe Bennett's just not ready to be the #1.

umm not really (around 3 weeks?) but anyway.

hes a good cb. he didnt become a bad cb last night which is what both of ye were implying. generally good tackler and usually has tight coverage and can play the ball too. however hes still only started around 10 games so hes going to get beaten sometimes especially when he comes up against great wrs like hines ward. thats it its that simple. you dont have to label him and it doesnt have to be boom or bust and i think its very shortsighted to say a guy (especially one so young and inexperienced) isnt a #1 corner because one of the best wrs (and def the most physical) got the better of him

Polo
09-07-2008, 06:48 PM
Bennett is just not a number one corner.

With a Dunta on the field he's a better player.

I think the entire defense is better with Dunta on the field though..

OzzO
09-07-2008, 06:50 PM
The thing I noticed - the team played with no heart.

The first drive was looking good, clicking - then missed the 4th and 1. After that - seems they let one bad play build onto another and there were a few players that were trying to turn it - but for the most part, looks like they were waiting for someone else to make the big play.

No one tried to psych the team up, very few helped others up after a big pile up, there was no interaction... they were just going through the motions.

Like they play in preseason - translates to the season. Yes, preseason scores don't translate, but the way it's played - especially with starters, does.

beerlover
09-07-2008, 06:51 PM
for the first time I fear that Kubiak & staff do not or cannot make adjustments in their game planning. clearly the pocket was unstable, the running game going nowhere yet they left the status quo game plan in place even with the game out of reach, endagering key starters like Andre Johnson for no positive vindication only possible injury.

if the Texans want to win more games they have to adjust to the conditions on the field that day. Sage is a much more mobile QB, the pocket needed to stay fluid with alot more play action, roll outs & deep aggressive long balls to some outside speed. I'm not convinced the Texans don't have the talent but rather are held back by rigid, conservative, out of loyalty playcalling :nicedog:

Polo
09-07-2008, 06:53 PM
The thing I noticed - the team played with no heart.

My thoughts as well.


I'm thinking that the biggest thing a new d-coordinator can do for us is give the guys more swagger and tenacity about themselves......

I don't see Weaver, Greenwood, or Reeves becoming more aggressive or physical though...

Hervoyel
09-07-2008, 06:53 PM
umm not really (around 3 weeks?) but anyway.

hes a good cb. he didnt become a bad cb last night which is what both of ye were implying. generally good tackler and usually has tight coverage and can play the ball too. however hes still only started around 10 games so hes going to get beaten sometimes especially when he comes up against great wrs like hines ward. thats it its that simple. you dont have to label him and it doesnt have to be boom or bust and i think its very shortsighted to say a guy (especially one so young and inexperienced) isnt a #1 corner because one of the best wrs (and def the most physical) got the better of him

So how am I "labeling him" by saying that maybe he's just not ready to be a #1? How do you read what I'm writing and come to the conclusion that I'm saying he's either a boom or a bust? Do I have to quantify everything I type for you with a "I'm talking about right now, not the future. Just today, in his second season and without much help" so you get what I'm saying?

Jeez.

Maddict5
09-07-2008, 07:13 PM
So how am I "labeling him" by saying that maybe he's just not ready to be a #1? How do you read what I'm writing and come to the conclusion that I'm saying he's either a boom or a bust? Do I have to quantify everything I type for you with a "I'm talking about right now, not the future. Just today, in his second season and without much help" so you get what I'm saying?

Jeez.

yes that was what you said in your 2nd post..

hoowever i responded o your first post where you implied he sucked as bad as reeves because of this one bad game...no?

Marcus
09-07-2008, 07:15 PM
What match-ups should our D-coordinator have taken advantage of ?

Bennet against Ward ?
Reeves on Holmes ?
Diles on Miller ?

Greenwood on Willie Parker ?
Weaver on anyone ?

Where exactly are all these match-ups to be taken advantage of ?

What is an area of strength for our defense ?

Speed ?
Power?
Experience?

What can our guys do well that we can use to exploit opposing offenses ?

Good luck with that one, Polo. Very, very good questions.

They all have it intrenched their minds that it's all about scheme and matchups, but when you ask for specifics . . .

ObsiWan
09-07-2008, 07:17 PM
My thoughts as well.


I'm thinking that the biggest thing a new d-coordinator can do for us is give the guys more swagger and tenacity about themselves......

I don't see Weaver, Greenwood, or Reeves becoming more aggressive or physical though...

Then they will hit the road.
Most of believe they should be gone already....

Polo
09-07-2008, 07:21 PM
Good luck with that one, Polo. Very, very good questions.

They all have it intrenched their minds that it's all about scheme and matchups, but when you ask for specifics . . .

I definitely think the D-coordinator shares some of the blame, but I'm having a hard time asking for his head when you give him Jaque Reeves, Morlon Greenwood, and Anthony Weaver to play major roles within your defense...


I don't care what folks say about Labeau's coaching, but I guarantee Weaver, Greenwood, nor Reeves would be starting on that team...Neither would our Safeties and Neither would most the DL...

markn
09-07-2008, 07:27 PM
Good luck with that one, Polo. Very, very good questions.

They all have it intrenched their minds that it's all about scheme and matchups, but when you ask for specifics . . .

Not me. I'm in the fire Richard Smith club because the dude is simply not trying anything - it's the same old ultra conservative thing play after play. How about throwing the odd blitz? Sure, we'll get caught-out for a big gain from time to time, but in games like this and Dallas where the offense is literally toying with us, what do we have to lose? Frankly I find it more depressing watching teams slowly march down the field gaining one yard per play than they need every time than I would if we at least attempted something a bit more exotic and failed even more dramatically.

GP
09-07-2008, 07:30 PM
Not me. I'm in the fire Richard Smith club because the dude is simply not trying anything - it's the same old ultra conservative thing play after play. How about throwing the odd blitz? Sure, we'll get caught-out for a big gain from time to time, but in games like this and Dallas where the offense is literally toying with us, what do we have to lose? Frankly I find it more depressing watching teams slowly march down the field gaining one yard per play than they need every time than I would if we at least attempted something a bit more exotic and failed even more dramatically.

Exactly.

We got our brains beat out REGARDLESS of whether we blitzed or not, so you might as well brig the house and at least make the QB think.

But to say that "we can't blitz, because we don't have the talent," is not fully true. Playing soft and backing off didn't help, did it?

Richard Smith will be gone at the end of this season. I'll bank more on THAT than on us making the playoffs this year.

GP
09-07-2008, 07:37 PM
I definitely think the D-coordinator shares some of the blame, but I'm having a hard time asking for his head when you give him Jaque Reeves, Morlon Greenwood, and Anthony Weaver to play major roles within your defense...


I don't care what folks say about Labeau's coaching, but I guarantee Weaver, Greenwood, nor Reeves would be starting on that team...Neither would our Safeties and Neither would most the DL...

And I guess Kubiak forced Richard Smith to have all the defensive players that we have? I guess Richard Smith didn't have a say in things?

Ya'll act like all the Defensive Coordinator does is send in the plays. Is that how it goes? A DC just studies film, sits up in the press box, and radio's the plays down the field? And when he signed on as DC, the coach says "Oh, here's your players. Hope you like them because you get what you get."

The guy is working with the talent that he helped to select. And he also had a say in who he thinks should be cut. And he could make a stronger push during off-seasons and say "Damnit, I need THIS particular guy. And I needed him LAST year!"

I just don't think Richard Smith is a sharp tool. Might be a great person, a wonderful husband and dad. But DC he ain't.

ObsiWan
09-07-2008, 07:42 PM
What match-ups should our D-coordinator have taken advantage of ?

Bennet against Ward ?
Reeves on Holmes ?
Diles on Miller ?

Greenwood on Willie Parker ?
Weaver on anyone ?

Where exactly are all these match-ups to be taken advantage of ?

What is an area of strength for our defense ?

Speed ?
Power?
Experience?

What can our guys do well that we can use to exploit opposing offenses ?

No one knows.
No one can tell me what kind of players Richard Smith targets for his "scheme".
What "area of strength" does he require in his players??
is it Speed? Power? Experience?

ObsiWan
09-07-2008, 07:46 PM
I definitely think the D-coordinator shares some of the blame, but I'm having a hard time asking for his head when you give him Jaque Reeves, Morlon Greenwood, and Anthony Weaver to play major roles within your defense...


I don't care what folks say about Labeau's coaching, but I guarantee Weaver, Greenwood, nor Reeves would be starting on that team...Neither would our Safeties and Neither would most the DL...

True statement
why?
Because unlike Mr. I-let-others-pick-my-defensive-players, Dick LeBeau wouldn't stand for guys who couldn't execute his defensive plan.

Hervoyel
09-07-2008, 08:11 PM
yes that was what you said in your 2nd post..

hoowever i responded o your first post where you implied he sucked as bad as reeves because of this one bad game...no?

Yes, in my first post I described his day to a "T". In what way did I state that he would never pan out, be a bust, or that this was without a doubt the Fred Bennett we were going to see for the rest of his career? It's "possible" of course. He might never be effective again for all I know. It's possible he comes back next week and plays lights-out. All I did in my first post was describe his day TODAY.

I also said that it was tough telling one guys bad game from anothers today since everybody sucked. When are you going to crank out the post complaining about my take on Mario being a bust forever because of that?

What's your problem? Why don't you go find somebody else to nitpick over every line they type?

jdog
09-07-2008, 08:55 PM
I didn't get to see the game, but based on the stats of the game, I come to the following conclusions:

1. We couldn't run or stop the run effectively. These are not new problems for us, and we're working to correct them. It doesn't help that the Steelers have an excellent defense and run game.

2. We lost the turnover battle. Schaub must have felt a lot of pressure to make those bad throws, so we needed better protection. We also needed a better pass rush. Again, nothing new here. We're working on it. Pittsburgh has an excellent defense, and their run game helped offset their pass protection.

Basically, nothing new here. We're working on it, and we haven't fixed it to the point of being Super Bowl contenders. I'm not really surprised.

A lot of the passes Big Ben made in the highlights seemed forced into tight coverage, but we didn't make plays on the ball like they did. It shows two things to me. One, Pittsburgh is a better defense, and two, we seem like we're going through the motions because we don't believe we can win this game.

I worry about the mental, confidence side of the our game. We won't know how good we can be if we can't be mentally tough and confident against tough opponents and adverse conditions.

Maddict5
09-07-2008, 09:04 PM
Yes, in my first post I described his day to a "T". In what way did I state that he would never pan out, be a bust, or that this was without a doubt the Fred Bennett we were going to see for the rest of his career? It's "possible" of course. He might never be effective again for all I know. It's possible he comes back next week and plays lights-out. All I did in my first post was describe his day TODAY.

I also said that it was tough telling one guys bad game from anothers today since everybody sucked. When are you going to crank out the post complaining about my take on Mario being a bust forever because of that?

What's your problem? Why don't you go find somebody else to nitpick over every line they type?

nothing im just sick of venting posts

and i was answering to both you and the guy comparing him to michale clayton ie. it wasnt all aimed at you although i think we both know what you were implying. il leave it though

ObsiWan
09-07-2008, 09:05 PM
I worry about the mental, confidence side of the our game. We won't know how good we can be if we can't be mentally tough and confident against tough opponents and adverse conditions.

good observation.
its been made by others too.

we got hit in the mouth and didn't get up and hit back.

Were there any "OMG hits" by our defense today? I don't remember a single one. Mario's sack and forced fumble was the closest any Texan came to an OMG play.

Maddict5
09-07-2008, 09:08 PM
good observation.
its been made by others too.

we got hit in the mouth and didn't get up and hit back.

Were there any "OMG hits" by our defense today? I don't remember a single one. Mario's sack and forced fumble was the closest any Texan came to an OMG play.

theres player quotes up on ht.com

they seem determined to right the ship next week. of course, thats alot easier to say than to do

Pantherstang84
09-07-2008, 09:13 PM
theres player quotes up on ht.com

they seem determined to right the ship next week. of course, thats alot easier to say than to do

I don't need to hear it. I need to see it. Show me. No more talking about getting better. Just @^%#^%! do it already!

Maddict5
09-07-2008, 09:15 PM
I don't need to hear it. I need to see it. Show me. No more talking about getting better. Just @^%#^%! do it already!

yes, see the last part you didnt bold

Pantherstang84
09-07-2008, 09:20 PM
yes, see the last part you didnt bold

Oh I saw it. I'm just sick and tired of the "we just didn't execute" excuses.

bah007
09-07-2008, 09:32 PM
nothing im just sick of venting posts

and i was answering to both you and the guy comparing him to michale clayton ie. it wasnt all aimed at you although i think we both know what you were implying. il leave it though

I don't know what you're relation is to Fred Bennett, but he got schooled today by Mr. Hines Ward.

Nobody is calling him a bust. He is the best CB we will have until Dunta comes back.

But Ward stole his lunch today. Its no crime for a fan to watch the game & observe what is really happening.

We all hope Bennett has a better game next week. You're not the only one.

ObsiWan
09-07-2008, 09:33 PM
Oh I saw it. I'm just sick and tired of the "we just didn't execute" excuses.

They should be too.
we'll see

scourge
09-07-2008, 09:45 PM
My observation...
Schaub's INT's were absolutely rediculous.
Our defense other and Mario and DeMeco was just as terrible as I saw in the preseason
Our OLine was just as bad as the defense, if not worse.

The Texans really do need to think long and hard about replacing Richard Smith. As I stated last year on the forums, for DC as in everywhere else in life, I'd rather have Bush than Dick.

KEYE SUX
09-07-2008, 09:46 PM
Bennett sucks. I mean he should be a PROBOWL back in this already his second year in the league. To get schooled by a no name Hines Ward who has barely been in the league for 10+ years. I mean it is not like Ward has kearned three team Most Valuable Player (MVP) selections. Or like he is also a four-time NFL Pro Bowl selection (2001–2004). Bennett needs to get his stuff together. He has way too much experience to look like that against an inexperienced no name receiver.

KEYE SUX
09-07-2008, 09:48 PM
As I stated last year on the forums, for DC as in everywhere else in life, I'd rather have Bush than Dick.

You would rather have a Bush than a Dick???

bah007
09-07-2008, 09:51 PM
QB - Schaub did well up until the first time he was hit. After that, he was very jittery & made plenty of bad decisions.

RB - Slaton looked alright. Hit the holes quickly, & showed more power than he was given credit for in college. Green had one good run. I hardly heard Leach's name at all, which, as a FB, usually means you are doing a good job. He did completely whiff on Woodley on the first sack.

WR - Andre was the only guy getting separation, but Schaub only threw to him when he was covered. Nobody else was impressive, or even adequate.

OL - Sloppy. Very little pass protection. Opened up very few holes for the RBs.


DL - Mario was fantastic nearly the whole game. He did run right past Parker on one of the TD runs tho. Weaver was poor, so that's right on par. Okoye was a non-factor.

LB - Ryans was solid, but not up to his usual standard. Greenwood hardly moved during the whole game, whether it was a run or pass. Diles did well against the run, but had big problems in coverage.

DB - Reeves did better than I expected, but he was hardly challenged. Bennett got whipped all day long by Ward. Brown was alright in the box, non-existant in coverage.

Maddict5
09-07-2008, 10:15 PM
I don't know what you're relation is to Fred Bennett, but he got schooled today by Mr. Hines Ward.

Nobody is calling him a bust. He is the best CB we will have until Dunta comes back.

But Ward stole his lunch today. Its no crime for a fan to watch the game & observe what is really happening.

We all hope Bennett has a better game next week. You're not the only one.

i never denied that ward taught him a few things. i only disputed that hes become a bad cb because of this performance. and yes some1 was comparing him to michael clayton

Wolf
09-07-2008, 10:20 PM
http://blogs.chron.com/fanblogtexans/Capers.jpg

"We just need to execute"

Señor Stan
09-07-2008, 10:23 PM
Osi Umenyiora burned a DVD of this game so he can put it on his "ladies" stomach.

texanhead08
09-07-2008, 10:24 PM
it all went downhill after kubiak went for it on 4th and a foot. granted you would think we could get that foot but we are the texans. dont know why he handed the steelers the big MO in there house. oh well. it's just one game . baltimore is 1-0 though. here's to home field advantage

Yeah especially when you run a sneak and the qb takes two steps before he is touched and the ref comes in and signals first down and then remembers he's in Pittsburgh and changes the call. I doubt that decided the game but it seemed to take the wind out of us. We didnt nothing till the game was out of hand after that.

False Start
09-07-2008, 10:46 PM
I just heard Andre Johnson's comments after the game. He said something to the effect that he was tired of it and it seems like the same thing over and over every week. When asked by Bob Allen if he felt like they were ready,he said "I know I was ready."

He seemed pissed,and deservedly so. I just hope he doesn't get fed up and want to get out of town.

TEXANRED
09-07-2008, 10:48 PM
good observation.
its been made by others too.

we got hit in the mouth and didn't get up and hit back.

Were there any "OMG hits" by our defense today? I don't remember a single one. Mario's sack and forced fumble was the closest any Texan came to an OMG play.

AJ continued to play hard. Did you see his last run and catch? He lowered the shoulder and gave the guy a good pop.

J-Russ
09-07-2008, 10:53 PM
I just heard Andre Johnson's comments after the game. He said something to the effect that he was tired of it and it seems like the same thing over and over every week. When asked by Bob Allen if he felt like they were ready,he said "I know I was ready."

He seemed pissed,and deservedly so. I just hope he doesn't get fed up and want to get out of town.

omgz. so we're back to the "AJ is too good for us, hope he leaves after his contract is up and go to a winning team" talk. Well too bad he signed that multi-year contract with us. AJ, we own you for the next 4-5 years.

He might end up being the Barry Sanders for our franchise, an elite player that never got anywhere because he plays for a cruddy franchise his whole career. Face it, even if we do stay mediocre for the next 10 years, AJ would never demand a trade.

Wolf
09-07-2008, 10:54 PM
Osi Umenyiora burned a DVD of this game so he can put it on his "ladies" stomach.

oh my stars that is wrong on so many levels

Zing---http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w33/jackals_incarnation/rimshot.gif

False Start
09-07-2008, 11:04 PM
omgz. so we're back to the "AJ is too good for us, hope he leaves after his contract is up and go to a winning team" talk.

Thats not even close to what I meant by that. If there was some way for him to get out of his contract and leave,it would suck,but thats just the way things are. I wouldn't shed a tear,freak out or anything. I just said I hope that isn't the situation, hes a great receiver and I like having him on the team. :cool:

J-Russ
09-07-2008, 11:08 PM
Thats not even close to what I meant by that. If there was some way for him to get out of his contract and leave,it would suck,but thats just the way things are. I wouldn't shed a tear,freak out or anything. I just said I hope that isn't the situation, hes a great receiver and I like having him on the team. :cool:

lol. sorry I can be off base sometimes.

False Start
09-07-2008, 11:10 PM
lol. sorry I can be off base sometimes.

Its cool man,after today's game I'm not in the peppiest of moods either,lol.

leebigeztx
09-07-2008, 11:13 PM
I didnt see any run blitzes which is what alot of teams use to stop the run. Kalu and weaver were getting rolled and the off coverage really irritates me. The old adage, pressure leads to picks and coverage leads to sacks is law. The team was late to adjust and once they got down, the exotic blitzes can get to any qb and team. Today should have been pass to set up the run. Next week, the ravens dont allow people to run on them neither so they should just dump that strategy. Come out with some quick passes early to set the tempo and then mix in the run.

dalemurphy
09-07-2008, 11:29 PM
I definitely think the D-coordinator shares some of the blame, but I'm having a hard time asking for his head when you give him Jaque Reeves, Morlon Greenwood, and Anthony Weaver to play major roles within your defense...


I don't care what folks say about Labeau's coaching, but I guarantee Weaver, Greenwood, nor Reeves would be starting on that team...Neither would our Safeties and Neither would most the DL...

Well, lets' see:

Weaver started for a great Ravens defense when we signed him away.

Greenwood started for a very good Miami defense when we signed him.

Reeves started for a 13-3 team last year who actually has worse Safety play than we do

Runner
09-08-2008, 06:33 AM
I just heard Andre Johnson's comments after the game. He said something to the effect that he was tired of it and it seems like the same thing over and over every week. When asked by Bob Allen if he felt like they were ready,he said "I know I was ready."


Maybe he should read one of the "It's only one game, the Texans are on the right track" threads. He sounded a lot like some of the posters here who are being slammed for being negative.

He sounded very dejected. He is seeing the same problems year after year, just as some of the fans have been commenting on. There were a few snippets from other players and coaches to the effect of "we don't know why we weren't ready/didn't play well but we have to get better". We've heard this same thing for years too.

Maddict5
09-08-2008, 06:50 AM
somebody should tel aj we'll be 5-2 by the bye week :)

Polo
09-08-2008, 08:02 AM
Well, lets' see:

Weaver started for a great Ravens defense when we signed him away.

Greenwood started for a very good Miami defense when we signed him.

Reeves started for a 13-3 team last year who actually has worse Safety play than we do

Are you trying to tell me that what I said was not true.

I was pretty str8 forward. None of those players would start for that steelers team we faced yesterday...

And just because you start on a team that does well doesn't mean you are an intergal part in them doing well...

Your point is nullified by the Matt Stevens of the world...He was a part of some of our best defense in franchise history...

Vinny
09-08-2008, 08:48 AM
Last night I was up really late but it was the only time I had to sit and watch the game slowly and carefully and the first play of the second half kinda summed the entire game up to me. If you dvr guys cue up the first defensive play and keep your eyes on Weaver you will see him hop sideways 7-8 yards deep into the middle of the field as a running play is unfolding. I still can't figure out why we are in such a passive defense on the first play and the technique the players are using is just unexplainable. I was so perplexed I even sent out a text for some of you to review that play (if you get a text at a bizarre hour I don't expect you to return it fwiw)

On the Ward TD when he was at the top of the screen in the slot we had Zach Diles on him....Zach Diles covering Hines Ward with the safetys way too deep to participate in a pass if they threw a quick one...well, Hines looked right at Ben and bam...TD. These are just two examples but this defensive scheme is awful no matter how many times I slice it. I won't drone on about it but to me the defensive model isn't giving the players a chance. I know the defensive scheme was 4 across the top but that was the worst looking zone defense in the red zone ever. It's like the players were trying to order a Greek meal at an French restaurant.

Polo
09-08-2008, 08:56 AM
Even the best defenses give up mismatches and have holes to be exploited in their schemes...

I can count many more times guys got manhandled at the line of scrimamge, missed tackles, slipped in coverage, had poor recognition of the play, or slipped trying to rush the passer than I can where our scheme got the best of us...

Our players just got slapped in the mouth yesterday by a more pysical team...

Our offense got slapped around just as bad....Our center was mismatched every single play......Guess it was the scheme over there too...

Vinny
09-08-2008, 08:59 AM
Even the best defenses give up mismatches and have holes to be exploited in their schemes...Do you even think about what you say sometimes? What the hell kind of "best defense" would put Zach Diles on Hines Ward without help in that situation? I'm sure the play may have been designed differently but you don't see good defenses play unsound ball to this level...if they did, they wouldn't be "the best" defenses.

I can count many more times guys got manhandled at the line of scrimamge, missed tackles, slipped in coverage, had poor recognition of the play, or slipped trying to rush the passer than I can where our scheme got the best of us... I can too, but I wasn't making this a 'this problem is bigger than that problem' post...I just brought up two screaming examples of a poor scheme that isn't giving your players a chance to succeed.

DBCooper
09-08-2008, 09:03 AM
Ravens OC:

"Alright guys, I just watched tape on the Texans. We're gonna run the ball til we have them on their heels, then play/action for (first down/touchdown) whichever applies. Questions?"


Player:

"Yeah coach, what kinda scheme they run?"


Ravens OC:

"Scheme? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!"

Polo
09-08-2008, 09:11 AM
Do you even think about what you say sometimes? What the hell kind of "best defense" would put Zach Diles on Hines Ward without help in that situation? I'm sure the play may have been designed differently but you don't see good defenses play unsound ball to this level...if they did, they wouldn't be "the best" defenses.

How about that play-off game where Reggie Bush got behind the bears defense and Drew Brees dropped it in his basket over the heads of Urlacher and company for like an 80 yard score...

How about the Colts getting smash mouthed in the Run game without Sanders in the line-up...Obviously they need bigger DE's on the field...Afterall Freeney and Mathis don't make up your prototypical bookends...

Do you think about what you say ?

All defenses are occasionally exposed because of poor alignment or because of mismatches....The difference on those defenses is that they have talented players that eventually make plays...

Why can Mario, Demeco, and Dunta make plays and get in good position but no one else can?

If it's all about scheme why did our defense during the Capers era get worse when we let go of our older talented players to supposedly get "younger and faster"....Greenwood has been the same guy since he's been here...He was one of those guys that was supposed to make us "more athletic"...


I can too, but I wasn't making this a 'this problem is bigger than that problem' post...I just brought up two screaming examples of a poor scheme that isn't giving your players a chance to succeed.

And I'm saying your point isn't much of a point , IMO...I watced other teams yesterday specifically for that, and there wasn't a defense that played yesterday that didn't have the occasional "wide open reciever", "LB on a reciever" or seemingly "bad alignment"...

What I'm saying is I count waaaaay more individual player errors that we are making when comparing our defense to other squads...I count way more times our guys are getting physically outdone...

Every team out there gets burned because of the things you said you noticed...Every team out there doesn't have players that get physically beaten up and down the line-up...

Vinny
09-08-2008, 09:16 AM
How about that play-off game where Reggie Bush got behind the bears defense and Drew Brees dropped it in his basket over the heads of Urlacher and company for like an 80 yard score...

How about the Colts getting smash mouthed in the Run game without Sanders in the line-up...Obviously they need bigger DE's on the field...Afterall Freeney and Mathis don't make up your prototypical bookends...

Do you think about what you say ?

All defenses are occasionally exposed because of poor alignment or because of mismatches....The difference on those defenses is that they have talented players that eventually make plays...

Why can Mario, Demeco, and Dunta make plays and get in good position but no one else can?




And I'm saying your point isn't much of a point , IMO...I watced other teams yesterday specifically for that, and there wasn't a defense that played yesterday that didn't have the occasional "wide open reciever", "LB on a reciever" or seemingly "bad alignment"...

What I'm saying is I count waaaaay more individual player errors that we are making when comparing our defense to other squads...I count way more times our guys are getting physically outdone...

Every team out there gets burned because of the things you said you noticed...Every team out there doesn't have players that get physically beaten up and down the line-up...

yeah, I do think about what I say and bring a few examples of specific plays too. You can say my comments "don't have much of a point" till you are blue in the face but if you make a nonsense point off of my post I'll call it like I see it.

Blake
09-08-2008, 09:26 AM
I was saying the same thing about the coaches putting our players in a position to make plays. I also didnt like the amount of zone/cushion we were giving their offense. Also, did we bring our blitz playbook because it seemed that we didnt blitz at all, and got gashed for 10-13 yard runs all day long.

Also, does anyone think that Schaub showed that he is not the real deal today? He basically threw the game away for us in the first quarter.

Honoring Earl 34
09-08-2008, 09:30 AM
You can have mismatches if you have pressure . You can leave guys wide open if the QB does'nt have time to find him . That's the point ... if your not talented then you better be tricky ... right now we're neither .

I think the Texans want to be manly and have their high dollar front four put a ton of pressure on the QB and drop seven into coverage . It's obvious that outside of Mario , we can't get to the QB . Heck we can't stop the run either so what's that about ... we're not that good .

sakebomb
09-08-2008, 09:34 AM
Hines Ward was laughing at him most of the afternoon.

He wasn't laughing at him.

Ward has perma-smile and does that all the time.

thunderkyss
09-08-2008, 09:34 AM
How about that play-off game where Reggie Bush got behind the bears defense and Drew Brees dropped it in his basket over the heads of Urlacher and company for like an 80 yard score...

How about the Colts getting smash mouthed in the Run game without Sanders in the line-up...Obviously they need bigger DE's on the field...Afterall Freeney and Mathis don't make up your prototypical bookends...


This pretty much proves the point everyone else is trying to make.

NOt every team has superior talent at every position, so they use scheme to compensate. The Indianapolis Colts DL is small and fast, so they are prone to give up big run plays. So you have a guy like Bob Sanders to make up the difference. If you remove that talent, they get exposed. If the Colts had the Titans front four, they could get away with a less talented SS.

Urlacher can run & cover some of the best Wide Receivers in the league, I've seen him do it. Reggie & Brees just got the best of him that day.

Putting Zach Diles on Hines Ward is stupid.

I see our LBs cover a spot in Zone Coverage. They don't understand how to cover a zone. You can blame the player, but If they've been doing it for three years in a row, you have to imagine that somebody is telling them to do it that way.

Mr teX
09-08-2008, 09:36 AM
How about that play-off game where Reggie Bush got behind the bears defense and Drew Brees dropped it in his basket over the heads of Urlacher and company for like an 80 yard score...

First of all, that was pretty much a swing pass damn near in the backfield designed to get bush in space & he made the most of it. There was no "get behind the defense" involved. Urlacher, not exactly a slow LB, was right there Bush just did what he does best, shook him & out ran everyone else.

How about the Colts getting smash mouthed in the Run game without Sanders in the line-up...Obviously they need bigger DE's on the field...Afterall Freeney and Mathis don't make up your prototypical bookends...

That has nothing to do with scheme, It's just that his back up wasn't as good as doing what he does for that defense. Sanders is just a unique player & any defense would miss what he brings to the table.

Do you think about what you say ?

All defenses are occasionally exposed because of poor alignment or because of mismatches....The difference on those defenses is that they have talented players that eventually make plays...

This is true, but most NFL defenses can at least make it a little harder for the opposition to score with adequate adjustments at least by half time. The steelers weren't slowed down 1 bit by Richard Smith's "adjustments", they just eased off the gas & save for mario making a couple of plays, they would've dropped 50 on us.

Why can Mario, Demeco, and Dunta make plays and get in good position but no one else can?


And I'm saying your point isn't much of a point , IMO...I watced other teams yesterday specifically for that, and there wasn't a defense that played yesterday that didn't have the occasional "wide open reciever", "LB on a reciever" or seemingly "bad alignment"...

What I'm saying is I count waaaaay more individual player errors that we are making when comparing our defense to other squads...I count way more times our guys are getting physically outdone...

Every team out there gets burned because of the things you said you noticed...Every team out there doesn't have players that get physically beaten up and down the line-up...

This part is very true as well, but what happened to us went way beyond "occasional bad alignment". Hell, the cushion the db's give is pretty much already giving them a 1st down! His scheme isn't disguised very well & he doesn't blitz enough & he it seems he only blitzes in the obvious situations & even then there's no creativity either. The scheme is horrendous & for the life of me, i can't understand why he thinks we're good enough in the secondary to be able to cover up wr's long enough for the pass rush to get there, especially when he's not even sending all four guys every time.

Polo
09-08-2008, 09:37 AM
If you remove that talent, they get exposed.

Yep.

Honoring Earl 34
09-08-2008, 09:46 AM
Yesterday's game reminded me of this blast from the past .

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter?game_id=28896&displayPage=tab_gamecenter&season=2006&week=REG3

Polo
09-08-2008, 09:46 AM
This part is very true as well, but what happened to us went way beyond "occasional bad alignment". Hell, the cushion the db's give is pretty much already giving them a 1st down! His scheme isn't disguised very well & he doesn't blitz enough & he it seems he only blitzes in the obvious situations & even then there's no creativity either. The scheme is horrendous & for the life of me, i can't understand why he thinks we're good enough in the secondary to be able to cover up wr's long enough for the pass rush to get there, especially when he's not even sending all four guys every time.


Yeah...

Forget the fact that we missed a million tackles yesterday, Hines Ward did better against our corners than he did against any LB, No DE beside Mario had the juice to get to the QB, Greenwood and Weaver were invisible again and Reeves was probably our best DB for the day...


Sorry, but I'm not buying this scheme stuff. Too many good football minds on that staff for me to believe they are allowing this travesty of a coach to continue to sabatoge the team and ruin their names by relentlessly employing this disasterously scheme.

Give me 3 other D-linemen that give a damn, more athleticism in the LB corps and DB's that can cover and tackle and then I'll talk scheme.

I just find it funny that Demeco as a rookie could come in and make plays in this terrible scheme, but no one else can. Mario can make plays...He plays the run well..Even Zach Diles is decent....Dunta plays well in the scheme...he makes tackles...defends passes...

But no one else can....

riiiiiiigggghtt.....it's the scheme...

I refuse to belive that more talented players wouldn't be making plays in this very same scheme...

disaacks3
09-08-2008, 10:02 AM
Forget the fact that we missed a million tackles yesterday, Hines Ward did better against our corners than he did against any LB,...
I just find it funny that Demeco as a rookie could come in and make plays in this terrible scheme, but no one else can. Mario can make plays...He plays the run well..Even Zach Diles is decent....Dunta plays well in the scheme...he makes tackles...defends passes...

But no one else can....

riiiiiiigggghtt.....it's the scheme...

I refuse to belive that more talented players wouldn't be making plays in this very same scheme... To a point, your analysis holds water. Let's turn it on its head though and consider that MAYBE the guys you mentioned are EXCEPTIONAL and athletic (or instinctual enough) to OVERCOME a Bad Scheme.

Every guy shouldn't have to be a Pro-Bowl caliber player to get the job done. We were certainly out-classed on the field yesterday, no argument there. The question is, were we really THAT far out-classed personnel-wise, or did the coaching and scheme have more than a little to do with it?

Don't get me wrong...we played LOUSY football on BOTH sides yesterday. I had David Carr flashbacks and that's NOT something I like to see. I just fail to believe that the Steelers Offense is really THAT good.

In Barry Switzer terms they COULD have hung "half-a-hundred" on the Texans yesterday if they had wanted to.

Polo
09-08-2008, 10:05 AM
To a point, your analysis holds water. Let's turn it on its head though and consider that MAYBE the guys you mentioned are EXCEPTIONAL and athletic (or instinctual enough) to OVERCOME a Bad Scheme.

Every guy shouldn't have to be a Pro-Bowl caliber player to get the job done.


Zach Diles isn't pro-bowl caliber but he plays pretty well IMO. and our "pro-bowl" caliber players actually play up to that level...they aren't just "getting the job done"....

We were certainly out-classed on the field yesterday, no argument there. The question is, were we really THAT far out-classed personnel-wise, or did the coaching and scheme have more than a little to do with it?

Don't get me wrong...we played LOUSY football on BOTH sides yesterday. I had David Carr flashbacks and that's NOT something I like to see. I just fail to believe that the Steelers Offense is really THAT good.

In Barry Switzer terms they COULD have hung "half-a-hundred" on the Texans yesterday if they had wanted to.

Richard Smith isn't a great coach....I acknowledge that...

Heck I wouldn't even care if they fired him and went in a new direction...

I'm just saying I'm not convinced he is terrible and his scheme sucks...

And I'd say that yes....We were that outclassed personnel wise...

Folks are forgetting we got abused, and man-handled on offense just as bad as we did on defense...

Mr teX
09-08-2008, 10:05 AM
Yeah...

Forget the fact that we missed a million tackles yesterday, Hines Ward did better against our corners than he did against any LB, No DE beside Mario had the juice to get to the QB, Greenwood and Weaver were invisible again and Reeves was probably our best DB for the day...


Sorry, but I'm not buying this scheme stuff. Too many good football minds on that staff for me to believe they are allowing this travesty of a coach to continue to sabatoge the team and ruin their names by relentlessly employing this disasterously scheme.

Give me 3 other D-linemen that give a damn, more athleticism in the LB corps and DB's that can cover and tackle and then I'll talk scheme.

it's not out of the realm of possibility that he still has his job b/c he & kubes are close & have worked together for so long.

& It's not sabotage...i don't think he's doing it on purpose, i just don't think he knows what he's doing. this is only his 2nd d-coordinator job, & it's not like he's had great success coaching defense at his last d-coordinator job in Miami they were only ranked 18th & i know he had talent on that team, at least better talent than we have now.

His scheme, philosophy or whatever you want to call it just doesn't work regardless if he had talent or not.


Here's his coaching bio: http://www.houstontexans.com/team/coach.asp?coach_id=23

notice the teams he coached, when he coached, what he coached & i sure would like for someone to pull up how they ranked if they can do that.

Polo
09-08-2008, 10:28 AM
it's not like he's had great success coaching defense at his last d-coordinator job in Miami they were only ranked 18th & i know he had talent on that team, at least better talent than we have now.

His talent was a little better and he got a little better results...

the Miami Dolphins 2005 defensive roster wasn't all that...I checked (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/mia/2005_roster.htm)...

Hervoyel
09-08-2008, 10:30 AM
...Folks are forgetting we got abused, and man-handled on offense just as bad as we did on defense...

I don't think that's entirely true. It was hard to miss how badly we played on offense yesterday but at least a rational explanation presents itself as to why this might have been the case. We've added Gibbs, promoted Shanahan Jr., added a rookie LT and a new center, installed a different (if similar on a basic level) running system. Also we're starting two running backs who we should have no expecation of production out of at this point in the season. One is old with a years worth of rust stuck to him and the other is a rookie still wet behind the ears.

There are clear reasons why the offense is not playing the way we want it to and reasons to expect it to get better over the coming weeks.

On the defense it's just more of the same thing we've been watching for three years since Kubiak got here. We're waiting to see them play competently for the first time (still).

Polo
09-08-2008, 10:44 AM
I don't think that's entirely true. It was hard to miss how badly we played on offense yesterday but at least a rational explanation presents itself as to why this might have been the case. We've added Gibbs, promoted Shanahan Jr., added a rookie LT and a new center, installed a different (if similar on a basic level) running system. Also we're starting two running backs who we should have no expecation of production out of at this point in the season. One is old with a years worth of rust stuck to him and the other is a rookie still wet behind the ears.

There are clear reasons why the offense is not playing the way we want it to and reasons to expect it to get better over the coming weeks.

On the defense it's just more of the same thing we've been watching for three years since Kubiak got here. We're waiting to see them play competently for the first time (still).

All those things don't negate the fact that we got physically man-handled...

On both sides...

Texans didn't have to sign an aged Ahman Green...Could have gone after other backs...Plenty of Rookies produce...especially at tailback....Not sure why they get a free pass for that situation..

Ultimately Kubiak controls the situation on both sides the ball...The team in general is soft...

Hervoyel
09-08-2008, 10:46 AM
All those things don't negate the fact that we got physically man-handled...

On both sides...

Never said they did. I just said I understand why it happened on one side of the ball and have no idea why we're still waiting to see it stop on the other.

Polo
09-08-2008, 10:54 AM
Never said they did. I just said I understand why it happened on one side of the ball and have no idea why we're still waiting to see it stop on the other.

Texans offense has yet to have a top notch performance against a top notch defense...

Our offense was much better than our defense last year but the team in general still folds like a card table against more physical teams...

Not sure why folks have this false perception of our offense...Hope folks don't take it wrong, but I just haven't seen anything from the offense to make me believe they can march on good defenses...

They do well against mediocre defenses....good against back-ups and sorry defenses...Have yet to see them get with a tough defense...

scourge
09-08-2008, 10:56 AM
You would rather have a Bush than a Dick???

hehe, now you know that's not how that was meant. But to rephrase for you, I'd rather receive Bush than Dick as a DC and everywhere else in life.

Polo
09-08-2008, 11:03 AM
Texans offense has yet to have a top notch performance against a top notch defense...

Our offense was much better than our defense last year but the team in general still folds like a card table against more physical teams...

Not sure why folks have this false perception of our offense...Hope folks don't take it wrong, but I just haven't seen anything from the offense to make me believe they can march on good defenses...

They do well against mediocre defenses....good against back-ups and sorry defenses...Have yet to see them get with a tough defense...

These aren't the Texans you thought they were...

Overall the team is soft....And I really couldn't put my finger on it till yesterday...

Runner
09-08-2008, 11:24 AM
Texans didn't have to sign an aged Ahman Green...Could have gone after other backs...Plenty of Rookies produce...especially at tailback....Not sure why they get a free pass for that situation..

Ultimately Kubiak controls the situation on both sides the ball...The team in general is soft...

They don't get a free pass from me. I've ofen wondered why 'Smithiak' receive so much praise for their personnel acumen. We have weak spots that are still festering for years. I would have liked to see more youth brought in and given the opportunity to grow. Using the Daynes and Salaams for a small short term increase just delays long term growth. We are in another year of 'waiting 5-6 games for the o-line to gel' mode. Will that ever end? If they are as good as touted, they'd have the RB question answered by now too.

I'm not saying they are the worst in the league at spotting and getting talent. I do think their track record to this point fits right into the Texans culture of mediocrity though. Not a popular opinion around here.

Honoring Earl 34
09-08-2008, 11:31 AM
These aren't the Texans you thought they were...

Overall the team is soft....And I really couldn't put my finger on it till yesterday...

It's not the size of the dog in the fight it's the size of the fight in the dog . Right now we're porch dogs .

Brando
09-08-2008, 11:32 AM
Yesterday's game reminded me of this blast from the past .

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter?game_id=28896&displayPage=tab_gamecenter&season=2006&week=REG3

It reminded me of what happened last year when the Steelers opened up the season on the road.

Game 1 Steelers at Browns 2007 (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter?game_id=29197)


I'm still hoping that we can be like the Browns from last year. Yesterday was a tough pill to swallow but at the end of the day it was one game. Let's see how they bounce back, the Browns did last year.

Mr teX
09-08-2008, 11:34 AM
Texans offense has yet to have a top notch performance against a top notch defense...

Our offense was much better than our defense last year but the team in general still folds like a card table against more physical teams...

Not sure why folks have this false perception of our offense...Hope folks don't take it wrong, but I just haven't seen anything from the offense to make me believe they can march on good defenses...

They do well against mediocre defenses....good against back-ups and sorry defenses...Have yet to see them get with a tough defense...


ever heard the saying "defense wins championships"? that's usually how it goes good offenses are often stifled by good defenses...we were all witnesses to that last year.

The steelers are a good aggressive defense with a great aggressive scheme that everyone copied (like they usually do) when they won the superbowl a couple of years ago. & rightfully so, they were just banged up last year towards the end of the year.....they were obviously healthy yesterday.

point is, if you can't generate aggressive pass rushing through talent which we obviously can't at this point, it needs to be incorporated & well disguised into the scheme somehow to give your defense the best chance to be successful.... hell the patriots have won multiple superbowls with castoff defensive talent, they just had a great scheme to compensate for what they lacked athletically.

Nothing about Richard Smith's track record as a coach, even when he was at miami with legit starters has shown that all his scheme needs is the right players to be successful.......it just flat out sucks.....any passive defense sucks.

are we soft? yes. do we need better talent? yes. But until we can get that via the draft or FA this is what we have, & if you as the coach know this, maybe you should think about changing your approach to the way you do things so as to maybe get different results.....he doesn't do that he just does the same crap over & over...

thunderkyss
09-08-2008, 11:35 AM
Yeah...

Forget the fact that we missed a million tackles yesterday, Hines Ward did better against our corners than he did against any LB, No DE beside Mario had the juice to get to the QB, Greenwood and Weaver were invisible again and Reeves was probably our best DB for the day...


Sorry, but I'm not buying this scheme stuff. Too many good football minds on that staff for me to believe they are allowing this travesty of a coach to continue to sabatoge the team and ruin their names by relentlessly employing this disasterously scheme.

Give me 3 other D-linemen that give a damn, more athleticism in the LB corps and DB's that can cover and tackle and then I'll talk scheme.

I just find it funny that Demeco as a rookie could come in and make plays in this terrible scheme, but no one else can. Mario can make plays...He plays the run well..Even Zach Diles is decent....Dunta plays well in the scheme...he makes tackles...defends passes...

But no one else can....

riiiiiiigggghtt.....it's the scheme...

I refuse to belive that more talented players wouldn't be making plays in this very same scheme...

You've got a point...... it's not all because of bad scheme. We could definitely use more talented players..

but with that said, I think we should be able to expect better from these players, with the right coaching(scheme).

Honoring Earl 34
09-08-2008, 11:46 AM
It reminded me of what happened last year when the Steelers opened up the season on the road.

Game 1 Steelers at Browns 2007 (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter?game_id=29197)


I'm still hoping that we can be like the Browns from last year. Yesterday was a tough pill to swallow but at the end of the day it was one game. Let's see how they bounce back, the Browns did last year.

Actually that's a good comparison .

1. Rookie LT ... rebuilt OL .

2. Stud WR

3. Young QB ... backup breathing down his neck .

4. Defense not so hot

5. Veteran RB trying to revive career .

Polo
09-08-2008, 11:47 AM
are we soft? yes. do we need better talent? yes. But until we can get that via the draft or FA this is what we have, & if you as the coach know this, maybe you should think about changing your approach to the way you do things so as to maybe get different results.....he doesn't do that he just does the same crap over & over...


And you make it sound so simple....

And to think....a change of approach was all we needed...



I'm really not even arguing for Richard Smith...I've said that a bunch of times...Fire him, Keep hi mwho cares...

Greenwood will still be Greewnwood and Weaver will still be Weaver.

I just really think we are THAT un-talented on defense, and THAT soft on both sides of the ball to the point where a schmeatic change would make only a minor defense...

JMO.

Mr teX
09-08-2008, 11:50 AM
And you make it sound so simple....

And to think....a change of approach was all we needed...



I'm really not even arguing for Richard Smith...I've said that a bunch of times...

I just really think we are THAT un-talented on defense, and THAT soft on both sides of the ball...

lets just put it this way... it couldn't be any worse than what he's been doing these last 3 years. Shake things up; how about blitzing when the offense doesn't expect it, things like that.

Blake
09-08-2008, 12:16 PM
Shake things up; how about blitzing when the offense doesn't expect it, things like that.

Now that's just crazy talk!

Thorn
09-08-2008, 12:23 PM
I'm over the game now. We got our unprepared butts whooped by a better team, now it's time to move on.

dalemurphy
09-09-2008, 12:01 PM
Are you trying to tell me that what I said was not true.

I was pretty str8 forward. None of those players would start for that steelers team we faced yesterday...

And just because you start on a team that does well doesn't mean you are an intergal part in them doing well...

Your point is nullified by the Matt Stevens of the world...He was a part of some of our best defense in franchise history...

That's my point! Of course these are great players. However, they are all good enough to be members of a very good defense. Nobody is countinng on these guys to make the lions share of plays. They simply need to be put in situations to succeed. Meanwhile, guys like Mario, Demeco, Dunta, FBennett, Okoye should be making plays or drawing attention.

Maddict5
09-09-2008, 12:37 PM
heres some espn analysis of the game

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=easterbrook/080909

Buck-buck-brawckkkkkkk! It's only the first week of the season and already NFL coaches are playing mincing fraidy-cat football, seemingly more concerned about avoiding criticism than going all-out to win games. Maybe you can understand a coach losing heart in December -- but it's only the first week of the season! Buck-buck-brawckkkkkkk!



Many football pundits and bobbleheads noted Houston went for it on fourth-and-1 from midfield on its opening drive, failed to convert, and proceeded to lose to Pittsburgh. This was presented as proof coaches should ignore chants of "Go! Go!" and punt. But considering the Steelers led 35-3 by the end of the third quarter, I am thinking the first Texans drive was not the key to that particular game. I am thinking Pittsburgh personnel versus Houston personnel was the key to that particular game.

What's with all the fraidy-cat punting? Since the typical NFL play gains about 5 yards, the odds favor conversion attempts, even if some such attempts fail: Last year I reviewed the math in detail. But many coaches are not motivated by gaining yards, they are motivated by trying to avoid criticism. Case in point: Monday morning, Houston coach Gary Kubiak was getting hammered with criticism for going for it on the opening drive: though his decision made eminent sense, it just did not work out. Because Kubiak ordered the try, he's to blame. Had he ordered a punt and the final score been the same, pundits would have held the players to blame. Such blame-shifting, TMQ has become convinced, is the No. 1 reason NFL coaches order punts on fourth-and-short, even when trailing or inside opposition real estate.

Sweet Defensive Play of the Week: Pittsburgh leading 21-0, Houston reached first-and-10 on the Steelers' 12. The Steelers' defense dropped Moo Cow runners for losses on first and second down; when the fraidy-cat field goal boomed, the game for intents and purposes was over.

Scouts Notes: Houston's Matt Schaub throws pretty well to his left -- but man does he telegraph passes when he throws right. The Steelers have obviously noticed this -- how long until every team does?

ObsiWan
09-09-2008, 01:01 PM
Scouts Notes: Houston's Matt Schaub throws pretty well to his left -- but man does he telegraph passes when he throws right. The Steelers have obviously noticed this -- how long until every team does?

velly interesting....
I'll have to go back and re-watch the game... I was planning to anyhow.

DBCooper
09-09-2008, 01:03 PM
I'll have to go back and re-watch the game... I was planning to anyhow.

You're a brave man.

SICLICK
09-09-2008, 01:37 PM
I hate to say it but we suck again.

ObsiWan
09-09-2008, 01:43 PM
You're a brave man.

masochistic is the word you seek