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GP
09-01-2008, 08:10 PM
Vent 'em if you got 'em.

Let me be the first to say this:

Trying to position the Ahman Green signing a couple off-seasons ago as a "great steal" is one thing. But to do it again, via the Chris Brown signing and subsequent I.R. situation, is just the icing on the cake.

Looks like one more year of sucking at the running game.

This is a piss and moan thread only, btw. No need to help us find a silver lining in this turd storm of a RB situation. Kubiak's methodology of identifying and signing RBs is pitiful. There's just no excuse for it.

Sunday's forecast: Lots of punting, blitzes, and terrible towels.

Honoring Earl 34
09-01-2008, 08:13 PM
Vent 'em if you got 'em.

Let me be the first to say this:

Trying to position the Ahman Green signing a couple off-seasons ago as a "great steal" is one thing. But to do it again, via the Chris Brown signing and subsequent I.R. situation, is just the icing on the cake.

Looks like one more year of sucking at the running game.

This is a piss and moan thread only, btw. No need to help us find a silver lining in this turf storm of a RB situation.

Sunday's forecast: Lots of punting, blitzes, and terrible towels.

Before the draft , I said this is a deep RB draft and I would'nt mind drafting two . Folks said I was crazy but look at Dallas and RB ( drafted Jones 1st rd and Choice 4th rd . ) was a strong point for them last year .

TexansLucky13
09-01-2008, 08:21 PM
Nah we'll be fine so long as we get one of these for Ahman...

http://www.made-in-china.com/image/4f0j00eWaEtsTIqQCdM/Inflatable-Roller-Ball.jpg

b0ng
09-01-2008, 08:21 PM
Not nearly as upsetting as the whole "No we don't need to get anybody opposite Mario" thing.

kcdoubleeagle
09-01-2008, 08:33 PM
Okay......I have read ad naseum as people whined about our running back situation.....I for one believe you can have Ronnie Freaking Brown ( or Jim Brown for that matter ) and you won't get squat if you don't have the linemen......remember Emmitt Smith? yeah...he was a good running back...but my god look at those holes that line created....how about Edgerrin James....what happened to him once he left the safety cushion of Indy?? I mean, what do we do?? Draft a high running back.....forget about our glaring need at left tackle....and waste a high pick on someone who will get hurt because we can't block??

In order to win in the NFL....you have to be dominate in three areas.....offensive line, defensive line and quarterback....I believe it was Parcells who stated that......( who by the way suggested we draft Mario over the "can't miss" Bush ).........

We are the Houston Texans...we finished 2-14 just a couple years ago....why run out and get flashy diamond studs when you got a fat toothless woman to put them on? Why put lipstick on a pig? We are doing the right things....getting our interior solidified...once this process is complete we will be a contender for a long time.I for one am a fan of how Kubiak is building this team.

Texans_Chick
09-01-2008, 08:36 PM
Not nearly as upsetting as the whole "No we don't need to get anybody opposite Mario" thing.

They had a lot of needs and not that many picks. Heck they were fortunate to get the picks from the first round trade down and still get their guy. (not Chris Williams, whew!)

They knew that they had a need for someone on the other side of Mario but didn't find that value in this draft. A big DT run stuffer was also a need, though not as many people acknowledged that.

Multiple running back pics for this team wasn't feasible. Just too many needs. Want to give up our LT or CB?

I'm not mad about the running back situation because it isn't a big surprise that it is an issue. (except to some people in the media who won't be named).

The NFL is a league of risk taking. Some end up working out and some don't. The biggest issue is that usually there aren't that many great free agents bumping around because teams tend to keep the players they want to keep or want lots of draft picks for them. And the good free agents that are out there often want to go to a team with a winning history. So you have to take flyers a time or two on oldish players, or players with injury histories that might fit your system. For some teams, those choices end up working out, and with the Texans they haven't had the best of luck with those situations. (understatement)

Slaton is the RB they are developing this year and everybody else is just place holders until they fix so many of the problems they have.

Honoring Earl 34
09-01-2008, 08:36 PM
Okay......I have read ad naseum as people whined about our running back situation.....I for one believe you can have Ronnie Freaking Brown ( or Jim Brown for that matter ) and you won't get squat if you don't have the linemen......remember Emmitt Smith? yeah...he was a good running back...but my god look at those holes that line created....how about Edgerrin James....what happened to him once he left the safety cushion of Indy?? I mean, what do we do?? Draft a high running back.....forget about our glaring need at left tackle....and waste a high pick on someone who will get hurt because we can't block??

In order to win in the NFL....you have to be dominate in three areas.....offensive line, defensive line and quarterback....I believe it was Parcells who stated that......( who by the way suggested we draft Mario over the "can't miss" Bush ).........

We are the Houston Texans...we finished 2-14 just a couple years ago....why run out and get flashy diamond studs when you got a fat toothless woman to put them on? Why put lipstick on a pig? We are doing the right things....getting our interior solidified...once this process is complete we will be a contender for a long time.I for one am a fan of how Kubiak is building this team.

What does this have to do with not having healthy running backs ?

Grams
09-01-2008, 08:38 PM
Okay......I have read ad naseum as people whined about our running back situation.....I for one believe you can have Ronnie Freaking Brown ( or Jim Brown for that matter ) and you won't get squat if you don't have the linemen......remember Emmitt Smith? yeah...he was a good running back...but my god look at those holes that line created....how about Edgerrin James....what happened to him once he left the safety cushion of Indy?? I mean, what do we do?? Draft a high running back.....forget about our glaring need at left tackle....and waste a high pick on someone who will get hurt because we can't block??

In order to win in the NFL....you have to be dominate in three areas.....offensive line, defensive line and quarterback....I believe it was Parcells who stated that......( who by the way suggested we draft Mario over the "can't miss" Bush ).........

We are the Houston Texans...we finished 2-14 just a couple years ago....why run out and get flashy diamond studs when you got a fat toothless woman to put them on? Why put lipstick on a pig? We are doing the right things....getting our interior solidified...once this process is complete we will be a contender for a long time.I for one am a fan of how Kubiak is building this team.

Amen!

kcdoubleeagle
09-01-2008, 08:41 PM
I believe the Titans had the recipe down....i mean what a dominant offensive and defensive line......but they had to go and screw it all up and draft the worst NFL quarterback who has ever lived..( yes worse than Dilfer, Mark Malone, Craig Whelihan, Billy Joe Tolliver, David Carr, etc... )

I know it's off topic...but...good god....Vince Young is without a doubt the worst NFL quarterback in the history of the game....i have never seen one person single handedly destroy a very good football team...and what about all those clueless VY supporters? Good lord people....I know he is you and Richard Justice's hero....but good god....please...please...watch that guy play.....WORST EVER. sorry for the off topic rant.

Texans_Chick
09-01-2008, 08:50 PM
I believe the Titans had the recipe down....i mean what a dominant offensive and defensive line......but they had to go and screw it all up and draft the worst NFL quarterback who has ever lived..( yes worse than Dilfer, Mark Malone, Craig Whelihan, Billy Joe Tolliver, David Carr, etc... )

I know it's off topic...but...good god....Vince Young is without a doubt the worst NFL quarterback in the history of the game....i have never seen one person single handedly destroy a very good football team...and what about all those clueless VY supporters? Good lord people....I know he is you and Richard Justice's hero....but good god....please...please...watch that guy play.....WORST EVER. sorry for the off topic rant.

bongo...is that you?

kcdoubleeagle
09-01-2008, 08:53 PM
What does this have to do with not having healthy running backs ?

it's the nature of the position.....we drafted Slaton...he's healthy and hopefully will stay that way...but what could we have done? Draft Mendenhall? And have Salaam at left tackle???....um...no thanks...I think I like the way Brown is developing....

Running backs will not stay healthy long...it's best to have a long standing system that encourages production from that position...and not rely on a great running back with a crap line....because they just won't last long enough......hmm.....remember Earl??

Talked with Ed Biles the other day.who coached Earl Campbell.....Campbell was beaten up so bad by the fifth year he basically had nothing left..........

kcdoubleeagle
09-01-2008, 08:54 PM
bongo...is that you?


No...but whomever Bongo is...I like the way he thinks.

Hervoyel
09-01-2008, 08:57 PM
I'm annoyed and a bit impatient but I understand why it is the way it is and I understand why we needed to wait on the running back. I was wound up pretty good when Mendenhall dropped to us but I got over the disappointment pretty quick.

Green I can only hope fulfills his "potential" this year and can play in more than a handful of games. Brown I expect to see the team release with an injury settlement and I'm very annoyed at how that turned out but what can we do about it? In the best of all possible worlds Slaton emerges this year and becomes a legitimate starting RB and the problem is solved. Backs come out of nowhere all the time. Guys who are too slow and too small make good in the NFL all the time and I see no reason why Steve Slaton can't be one of those guys.

I'm far too concerned about our defense to really lose much sleep over our problems at RB. Lets just wait and see what happens in Pittsburgh. If we go up there and snatch a win out of that game then we'll all be talking playoffs by Monday morning no matter how it happens.

kcdoubleeagle
09-01-2008, 09:02 PM
bongo...is that you?

BTW TC.....way to take on that little weasel Dickie....what a dork..we got your back.

leebigeztx
09-01-2008, 09:17 PM
I think its more about the running game than the runner's name. Kubiak is a 550 carry coach. That 34 per game by my calculator. Once you delv into that, we're talking about 2 maybe 3 guys. They probably want 200 from Green and Slaton and 150 from Taylor, but this depends on gameflow and the defense. That means 800 yards from Green and Slaytoon and 550 from Taylor. That totals about 2100 rush yards or 140 per game. If u look at Denver when Kubiak was there, that's howw many yds they avg. During those yrs, onlly Pittsburgh hadmore attempts. I think that's what they're trying to do here. Rather thhan spend a high pick and a lot of money on 1 guy, they choose to have 3 guys for the same job plus a injurry doesn't hurt u as much. That being said, they need guys who can stay healthy. when was the last time a top rusher has played on aa sb winner?

eriadoc
09-01-2008, 09:29 PM
What bugs me the most is I didn't see anything in preseason from our vaunted zone blocking scheme that warranted optimism.

Honoring Earl 34
09-01-2008, 09:34 PM
it's the nature of the position.....we drafted Slaton...he's healthy and hopefully will stay that way...but what could we have done? Draft Mendenhall? And have Salaam at left tackle???....um...no thanks...I think I like the way Brown is developing....

Running backs will not stay healthy long...it's best to have a long standing system that encourages production from that position...and not rely on a great running back with a crap line....because they just won't last long enough......hmm.....remember Earl??

Talked with Ed Biles the other day.who coached Earl Campbell.....Campbell was beaten up so bad by the fifth year he basically had nothing left..........

That's what I'm saying , i like drafting drafting Slaton . In the same draft I would have drafted a back in the 7th instread of Brink . I would not sign any more injury prone vets who were not resigned by their teams .

KEYE SUX
09-01-2008, 09:39 PM
. In the same draft I would have drafted a back in the 7th instread of Brink . .

Which impact back would you have picked up in the 7th round?

TexansLucky13
09-01-2008, 09:40 PM
Which impact back would you have picked up in the 7th round?

Nice.

Honoring Earl 34
09-01-2008, 09:45 PM
Which impact back would you have picked up in the 7th round?

Justin Forsett or Patrick Allen ... even if they did'nt make it ... where's Alex Brink .

eriadoc
09-01-2008, 09:49 PM
Which impact back would you have picked up in the 7th round?

I'd take Forsett over Darius Walker or Chris Taylor, TBH. Of course, that's using hindsight.

HJam72
09-01-2008, 09:52 PM
I believe the Titans had the recipe down....i mean what a dominant offensive and defensive line......but they had to go and screw it all up and draft the worst NFL quarterback who has ever lived..( yes worse than Dilfer, Mark Malone, Craig Whelihan, Billy Joe Tolliver, David Carr, etc... )

I know it's off topic...but...good god....Vince Young is without a doubt the worst NFL quarterback in the history of the game....i have never seen one person single handedly destroy a very good football team...and what about all those clueless VY supporters? Good lord people....I know he is you and Richard Justice's hero....but good god....please...please...watch that guy play.....WORST EVER. sorry for the off topic rant.

Yes, but he could solve our RB problem. :jogger:

KEYE SUX
09-01-2008, 10:01 PM
Patrick Allen is available as far as I know so he must not have impressed his coaches. I think Forsett made the team as a 4th stringer. Given that, I would still take Walker.

Honoring Earl 34
09-01-2008, 10:12 PM
Patrick Allen is available as far as I know so he must not have impressed his coaches. I think Forsett made the team as a 4th stringer. Given that, I would still take Walker.

Why not have both ?

ArlingtonTexan
09-01-2008, 10:14 PM
In the NFL, a team's running game is not dependent on having a great runner, but on having a commitment to it. there are countless examples of teams using the types of guys we have (veteran, UDFA, or rookie) and being able to keep the defense at least honest if not be flat out effective. No it's not a good thing to really know who is going to be the starter, but not having another good pass rusher or a playmaker in defensive backfield will keep us from being good more than spliting 35 carries between three seemingly marginal guys.

Honoring Earl 34
09-01-2008, 10:21 PM
In the NFL, a team's running game is not dependent on having a great runner, but on having a commitment to it. there are countless examples of teams using the types of guys we have (veteran, UDFA, or rookie) and being able to keep the defense at least honest if not be flat out effective. No it's not a good thing to really know who is going to be the starter, but not having another good pass rusher or a playmaker in defensive backfield will keep us from being good more than spliting 35 carries between three seemingly marginal guys.

I agree somewhat . I think getting a playmaker db or a stud pass rushing de/lb takes a 1st or 2nd rd pick . I was talking about a rb in the 7th .

threetoedpete
09-01-2008, 10:43 PM
What bugs me the most is I didn't see anything in preseason from our vaunted zone blocking scheme that warranted optimism.

Every one except Pitts is young in the middle. Ok it looks like we're dressing the fall pig right now. And it's going to look rather messy for the first few games. Give the guys some reps and it will come together...I promise. They all are light on their feet and know how to combo block. Just takes a little time. They will mesh. If your expecting instant pudding....not going to happen. Takes a little more time when you make banana pudding from scratch. But the extra effort will be worth it in the long run. The system is proven and we have guys who fit the system. Just need a six pack of patience.

ObsiWan
09-01-2008, 11:05 PM
They had a lot of needs and not that many picks. Heck they were fortunate to get the picks from the first round trade down and still get their guy. (not Chris Williams, whew!)

They knew that they had a need for someone on the other side of Mario but didn't find that value in this draft. A big DT run stuffer was also a need, though not as many people acknowledged that.

Multiple running back pics for this team wasn't feasible. Just too many needs. Want to give up our LT or CB?

I'm not mad about the running back situation because it isn't a big surprise that it is an issue. (except to some people in the media who won't be named).

The NFL is a league of risk taking. Some end up working out and some don't. The biggest issue is that usually there aren't that many great free agents bumping around because teams tend to keep the players they want to keep or want lots of draft picks for them. And the good free agents that are out there often want to go to a team with a winning history. So you have to take flyers a time or two on oldish players, or players with injury histories that might fit your system. For some teams, those choices end up working out, and with the Texans they haven't had the best of luck with those situations. (understatement)

Slaton is the RB they are developing this year and everybody else is just place holders until they fix so many of the problems they have.

Thank you.
People keep choosing to forget that we got 3 quality players in exchange for passing on Mendenhall. Let me ask you this: If the Steelers offered Mendenhall for Duane Brown, Steve Slaton, and D. Barber, would you do that deal?
Maybe I'd regret it, but right now, I think I'd have to pass.

beerlover
09-01-2008, 11:28 PM
Every one except Pitts is young in the middle. Ok it looks like we're dressing the fall pig right now. And it's going to look rather messy for the first few games. Give the guys some reps and it will come together...I promise. They all are light on their feet and know how to combo block. Just takes a little time. They will mesh. If your expecting instant pudding....not going to happen. Takes a little more time when you make banana pudding from scratch. But the extra effort will be worth it in the long run. The system is proven and we have guys who fit the system. Just need a six pack of patience.

I agree thats why (when brewing) I go all-grain :stirpot:

but naturally people expect X amount of results after so many years, hell skip the important steps, like foundation building blocks, OL, DL go straight to skilled (dessert) positions QB, RB, WR. whats frustrating many, including myself who follow College Football is that over the past two drafts several outstanding RB's have slipped through our fingers. I think we did finally secure a good young back in Steve but once again we're left holding the bag needing to wait one more year again :foottap:

I absolutely love what's been going on with the Texans 08 OL. When Pitts is in there he has transformed into a Pro-Bowl capable LG, very important in the run game. Duane Brown is way ahead of schedule. Our 6th rd. pick (trade w/Denver) has become the new starting Center & doing a much better job than what we've had the last 7 years. Winston has been playing @ at a very high level for a couple years now & there is good competition for RG with decent depth for a change.

Sure I'm pissed about our RB legacy or lack thereof, but I know its going to happen :kingkong: sooner than later with the current leadership making the calls :wesmantexanfan:

b0ng
09-01-2008, 11:28 PM
Thank you.
People keep choosing to forget that we got 3 quality players in exchange for passing on Mendenhall. Let me ask you this: If the Steelers offered Mendenhall for Duane Brown, Steve Slaton, and D. Barber, would you do that deal?
Maybe I'd regret it, but right now, I think I'd have to pass.

I never said I wanted a pass rusher 1st round, but it would've been nice to see one instead of a QB in the seventh or a Safety in the 6th. Just saying.

Norg
09-01-2008, 11:43 PM
If green can stay healthy and slaton can be decent we will have a chance at winning some games

Vinny
09-01-2008, 11:44 PM
If green can stay healthy and slaton can be decent we will have a chance at winning some gamesHopefully Green can stay healthy for all 5 yards on his next 5 yard run. Watching him break down at 3 yards and look for a place to fall down is so disheartening.

Scooter
09-01-2008, 11:57 PM
ron dayne.

leebigeztx
09-01-2008, 11:58 PM
What's funny is all I heard at one point was that Davis couldn't break a run longer than 20 yds. I also heard that some of the runs Davis did break and got caught on, Bush would have scored. As we look at it, Bush longest run is 22 yds. There are countless example of getting good productive backs in the middle of the draft and having a good running game. Hopefully Slaton can be Davis-like then these threads would not be as rampant.

threetoedpete
09-02-2008, 12:14 AM
Hopefully Green can stay healthy for all 5 yards on his next 5 yard run. Watching him break down at 3 yards and look for a place to fall down is so disheartening.

Come on Vinny the guy is thirty one and he pulled the hammie on a screen pass play in a preseason game. Got knee capped in the Tampa Bay game last year....that wasn't his fault either. Father time is defiantly running the guy down....but if they are going to reach nine wins, they got to have this guy. I see no evidence the guy is tanking his game on purpose. He's just thirty one. And the primary reason no matter how talented they are, no matter the perceived value, you leave the over the thirty line Rbs alone.

ObsiWan
09-02-2008, 06:16 AM
I never said I wanted a pass rusher 1st round, but it would've been nice to see one instead of a QB in the seventh or a Safety in the 6th. Just saying.

I said on draft day that the last two picks confused me.
We had enough safeties - I guess they thought Barber was going to be a special teams maniac - we'll see.
Brink confused me because we'd just signed Quinn Gray, IIRC...
again, I let it go because (a) Kubiak always keeps a project QB and (b) it was the 7th round, no big whoop.

And my post was directed at the guys who wanted us to grab Mendenhall.
FWIW, I think Mendenhall fell off our radar because of his issues with fumbling. This is just my own opinion but I believe that once Jonathan Stewart was gone, an OT was gonna be our 1st pick.

Tedc
09-02-2008, 06:35 AM
Hopefully Green can stay healthy for all 5 yards on his next 5 yard run. Watching him break down at 3 yards and look for a place to fall down is so disheartening.

That is why I like Slaton. He keeps his legs moving. Brown is good at moving his legs as well but he can't stay in long enough.

ArlingtonTexan
09-02-2008, 07:54 AM
I agree somewhat . I think getting a playmaker db or a stud pass rushing de/lb takes a 1st or 2nd rd pick . I was talking about a rb in the 7th .

Honestly, I wasn't directly addressing you, but I don't think there is a significant difference bewteen a 7th round RB and any UDFA, but as I now think of it we did n't have one of thoseat RB from this draft class either.

jerek
09-02-2008, 08:17 AM
Call me an optimist but I really think Slaton and possibly even Taylor will surprise a lot of people this year.

ChampionTexan
09-02-2008, 08:20 AM
The 2007 RB class started out with Ahman Green and Ron Dayne, and Samkon Gado. Darius Walker was on the PS. Later, we added Adimchinobi Echemandu, and put Walker on the 53 man roster. I've just listed every RB (not including Fullbacks) who touched the ball last year.

Fast forward to 2008, and for better or worse, Green's still here. Ron Dayne has been replaced with Chris Taylor, and the Samkon/Darius/Echemandu role is essentially being filled by Steve Slaton. In my eyes, the 53 man roster consists of two upgrades, and a break-even (although if you want to argue that Green is more injury prone and/or has gotten even older since last year, I understand).

In addition to the actual RB personnel, we've upgraded the Center position, upgraded the LT position (although it may be an upgrade that takes a while to show results), and I believe we've upgraded the RG position. We've also brought in one of the most successful O-line coaches in NFL history to bring it all together and make it work.

If you want to complain that what they've done sucks, and it won't work - that's fine, but I'll wait until there's a little bit more of a track record to base that on. If you want to piss and moan that we've done nothing to address the running game, then I just feel sorry for you.

And I know that this thread was started as a piss and moan thread, so all I can do is apologize for being the punch in your turd bowl.