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Ole Miss Texan
08-27-2008, 11:47 AM
Defensive End may be a critical position for us to draft next year, enough to where we could spend a 1st rounder again. Below is a generic list of some of the top DE's that could be in the draft (* denotes underclassmen)

I have a question for those great at scouting college talent that's really important to keep in mind when watching the college football season. What's the best way to determine a 4-3 DE vs. a 3-4 DE vs. a 3-4 OLB???? Other questions that would be great if they could be answered: What should we look for in a DE to compliment Mario? (speed rusher?) What's the best way to scout for speed, how quick they are off the snap, their motor, run stopping, coverage, etc.?

Mainly, I don't want to be watching a lot of George Sylvie (for example) to see if he'd be a good fit on the Texans if he's just going to end up being a 3-4 outside linebacker in the NFL. Thanks for the help guys.

a list:
Defensive Ends:
1. George Selvie, South Florida*
2. Tyson Jackson, LSU
3. Greg Hardy, Ole Miss*
4. Greg Middleton, Indiana*
5. Michael Johnson, Georgia Tech
6. Maurice Evans, Penn State*
7. Brian Orakpo, Texas
8. Auston English, Oklahoma*
9. Tim Jamison, Michigan
10. Ricky Sapp, Clemson*

YoungTexanFan
08-27-2008, 01:31 PM
Defensive End may be a critical position for us to draft next year, enough to where we could spend a 1st rounder again. Below is a generic list of some of the top DE's that could be in the draft (* denotes underclassmen)

I have a question for those great at scouting college talent that's really important to keep in mind when watching the college football season. What's the best way to determine a 4-3 DE vs. a 3-4 DE vs. a 3-4 OLB???? Other questions that would be great if they could be answered: What should we look for in a DE to compliment Mario? (speed rusher?) What's the best way to scout for speed, how quick they are off the snap, their motor, run stopping, coverage, etc.?

Mainly, I don't want to be watching a lot of George Sylvie (for example) to see if he'd be a good fit on the Texans if he's just going to end up being a 3-4 outside linebacker in the NFL. Thanks for the help guys.

a list:
Defensive Ends:
1. George Selvie, South Florida*
2. Tyson Jackson, LSU
3. Greg Hardy, Ole Miss*
4. Greg Middleton, Indiana*
5. Michael Johnson, Georgia Tech
6. Maurice Evans, Penn State*
7. Brian Orakpo, Texas
8. Auston English, Oklahoma*
9. Tim Jamison, Michigan
10. Ricky Sapp, Clemson*

Sometimes a 3-4 OLB was a 4-3 DE in college. However, sometimes they are interchangeable initially upon entry to the NFL. 3-4 DE's are usually larger guys who might be an undersized NT or a larger 4-3 DE who excels at engaging the OT.

Mario is pretty much a "complete" DE, at least in terms of other DE's in the NFL. However, Mario is NOT a speed rusher. Mario's best strength is just that, his strength. He has great arm length and upper-body strength. This is why you see Mario do well with the "Bull-Rush" as compared to someone like the stereotypical "Freeney rusher." The guys who excel at neither really are generally regulated to the 3-4 DE.

The Texans need a "speed" rusher on the other end of Mario, but there is more to pass rush than the "other" DE. Essentially, we have two UT's playing next to each other, playing next to Mario. A great, penetrating UT is a vital component to a successful DL and pass-rush, but two UT's do not go well with each other as they create a small defensive front and struggle to engage the Guards, in essence creating more wash with the LB's. A prototypical super successful DL (IMO should) comprise of one complete DE who can be compared to the defense's "feature back". (Go with me) Next to that player is generally the UT, the Warren Sapp/Okoye/Travis Johnson mold for a DT. The DT on the other side is generally more of a NT, or a larger body T who can fill space and control a "help" blocker. These are guys of larger size, and those fans who actually understand the complexities of a defensive front on this MB have hopes that Okam is that NT type DT for our team. The NT will be better at stopping the run that any other player on the DL, or theoretically should be. Think of like a Vince Wolfok type NT; it's not quite the same as he is a 3-4 DT, but that is the generic role you hope to have one, and only one, of your DT's fill. The final piece to the DL should be an edge rusher or a speed rusher. These are guys who can be undersized, and may not have top end strength. The important thing to look for with these guys is 5 and 10 yard splits as far as times go. However, I am a big proponent of past college success. I truly believe that sacks are a natural talent. Some players are just more adept at it than others. Same thing with how some soccer players just have a nack for scoring goals. Some players just get to the QB, regardless of physical statistics and measurments. The example I love to use is Elvis Dummerville. I was the first person on this board to talk about him at all, and I hyped him up all year and right up until the draft. Nothing about him stands out physically really, but he just gets to the QB. He is a sack artist. That is what your "other" DE needs to be, and usually they are considered undersized edge rushers.

This team sits at:

Complete DE = Mario
UT = Okoye/Travis Johnson
NT = Okam (hopefully)
Sack Artists = Kalu/Cochran/Colvin
3-4 DE = Weaver

We start a group of guys consisting of:

Complete DE (Mario); two UT's (Okoye and TJ); 3-4 DE (Weaver)

This is why our defense is getting abused. We have a weakness in the middle of our line with two UT's, and a weakness on the edge with a 3-4 DE.

We will see this season if Okam can fill the starting gap of NT with our team, but regardless, we still will have a pretty big void at our other DE spot.

Also, don't ever worry about a DE's ability to drop back into coverage. If they do that, give up on the scheme. A DE should be able to cover the flats and hold contain, but DE's are not going to drop back 7 yards often. They will at times on a blitz from the LBs, but their spot is being filled and the hope/thought there is that there won't be enough time for the QB to read the DE coverage. Anyway, that's too much detail to cover.

So, now to your list. I've left the guys you should really focus on in terms of who fits our need at DE.

George Selvie, South Florida*
Greg Hardy, Ole Miss*
Greg Middleton, Indiana*
Michael Johnson, Georgia Tech
Maurice Evans, Penn State*
Ricky Sapp, Clemson*


I hope this helps you.

beerlover
08-27-2008, 02:40 PM
we need the best player available in the 1st rd. who best upgrades this team, right now I'd have to give the nod to RB position.

I would like to see the Texans find a small school prospect with a penchant for making plays all over the field. somebody imposing that plays with balance, can twist or stunt, quick off the edge & smooth change of direction. in other words a complete football player not one dimensional. ideally size is important for the position, I would like someone tall & athletic like Mario 6-5 or even 6-6 260-270 lbs. but just as long as they are proportionally built (stocky, power builds for shorter ends) it doens't seem to matter.

A Jared Allen for example, 6-6 267. he was selected #126 (near end of 4th rd.) in 04. instead the Texans traded about three picks to move up into the 1st for Jason Babin #27 too short for the NFL DE position & tried to project him into a 3-4 OLB. not saying tweeners don't or can't make it but I would go after a pure pass rushing end in the Allen mold.

Justin Tuck was selected #74 in 2005 (3rd rd.) 6-5 274. another tall rangy speed rusher with excellent body control.

Mark Anderson is a little more compact 6-4 255 late 5th as oppossed to very compact Elvis Dumerville 5-11 260 4th rd. ok give me one of each.

Going back a few years to 2003 a small school prospect form Troy State name of Osi Umenyiora 2nd rd. pick of the New York Giants has done pretty well for himself @ 6-3 261 he fits nicely in the edge speed rushing role.

Looking forward to the 09 draft the top 1st rd. prospect DE in the Allen/Tuck mold is Michael Johnson Georgia Tech (don't expect him to be there when the Texans select or we just had a horrific season). otherwise I just can't get excited about this positional group until the later rds. maybe someone like a Jamaal Westerman, 6-2 265 Rutgers in the 4th I don't know right now just have to wait & see how the College season plays out. regardless the Texans will be in the market once again in search of a player or two to fill the need @ RDE.

The Pencil Neck
08-27-2008, 03:59 PM
This is why our defense is getting abused. We have a weakness in the middle of our line with two UT's, and a weakness on the edge with a 3-4 DE.

We will see this season if Okam can fill the starting gap of NT with our team, but regardless, we still will have a pretty big void at our other DE spot.


I was making this argument before the draft when we were talking about Scheme.

Demeco is kinda small. He needs at least one, possibly two, space eating NT's in front of him to soak up the blockers and allow him to penetrate to the running back. But I was concerned because ... I think it was Franklin... was interviewed and basically said that our scheme was to have two small DT's that could run and pursue.

Well, if you're going to have two smaller DT's in the middle of the line, you need to have a big thumper type of Mike. And that worried me.

I was really surprised and happy when they took Okam. With Okam, hopefully, he'll be able to be that NT that we need to hold the fort in the middle of the line and that should free up Amobi and Demeco.

J-Russ
08-27-2008, 04:13 PM
we need the best player available in the 1st rd. who best upgrades this team, right now I'd have to give the nod to RB position.

Agreed with the whole post. You can find some top talents from round 1-3 and if you're lucky round 4. But DE is a premier position in the NFL, and is harder to spot later in the draft then a RB, or any other position in the backfield beside CB and QB. If there were both a top 3 RB and top 3 DE available in the draft that slipped to us, then I would take the DE everytime in the 1st round, even if the RB is rated higher.

Houston TexanUK
08-30-2008, 06:23 PM
I just like the thought of Greg Middleton from Indiana opposite Mario.

Rex King
09-01-2008, 05:42 PM
Sometimes a 3-4 OLB was a 4-3 DE in college. However, sometimes they are interchangeable initially upon entry to the NFL. 3-4 DE's are usually larger guys who might be an undersized NT or a larger 4-3 DE who excels at engaging the OT.

Mario is pretty much a "complete" DE, at least in terms of other DE's in the NFL. However, Mario is NOT a speed rusher. Mario's best strength is just that, his strength. He has great arm length and upper-body strength. This is why you see Mario do well with the "Bull-Rush" as compared to someone like the stereotypical "Freeney rusher." The guys who excel at neither really are generally regulated to the 3-4 DE.

The Texans need a "speed" rusher on the other end of Mario, but there is more to pass rush than the "other" DE. Essentially, we have two UT's playing next to each other, playing next to Mario. A great, penetrating UT is a vital component to a successful DL and pass-rush, but two UT's do not go well with each other as they create a small defensive front and struggle to engage the Guards, in essence creating more wash with the LB's. A prototypical super successful DL (IMO should) comprise of one complete DE who can be compared to the defense's "feature back". (Go with me) Next to that player is generally the UT, the Warren Sapp/Okoye/Travis Johnson mold for a DT. The DT on the other side is generally more of a NT, or a larger body T who can fill space and control a "help" blocker. These are guys of larger size, and those fans who actually understand the complexities of a defensive front on this MB have hopes that Okam is that NT type DT for our team. The NT will be better at stopping the run that any other player on the DL, or theoretically should be. Think of like a Vince Wolfok type NT; it's not quite the same as he is a 3-4 DT, but that is the generic role you hope to have one, and only one, of your DT's fill. The final piece to the DL should be an edge rusher or a speed rusher. These are guys who can be undersized, and may not have top end strength. The important thing to look for with these guys is 5 and 10 yard splits as far as times go. However, I am a big proponent of past college success. I truly believe that sacks are a natural talent. Some players are just more adept at it than others. Same thing with how some soccer players just have a nack for scoring goals. Some players just get to the QB, regardless of physical statistics and measurments. The example I love to use is Elvis Dummerville. I was the first person on this board to talk about him at all, and I hyped him up all year and right up until the draft. Nothing about him stands out physically really, but he just gets to the QB. He is a sack artist. That is what your "other" DE needs to be, and usually they are considered undersized edge rushers.

This team sits at:

Complete DE = Mario
UT = Okoye/Travis Johnson
NT = Okam (hopefully)
Sack Artists = Kalu/Cochran/Colvin
3-4 DE = Weaver

We start a group of guys consisting of:

Complete DE (Mario); two UT's (Okoye and TJ); 3-4 DE (Weaver)

This is why our defense is getting abused. We have a weakness in the middle of our line with two UT's, and a weakness on the edge with a 3-4 DE.

We will see this season if Okam can fill the starting gap of NT with our team, but regardless, we still will have a pretty big void at our other DE spot.

Also, don't ever worry about a DE's ability to drop back into coverage. If they do that, give up on the scheme. A DE should be able to cover the flats and hold contain, but DE's are not going to drop back 7 yards often. They will at times on a blitz from the LBs, but their spot is being filled and the hope/thought there is that there won't be enough time for the QB to read the DE coverage. Anyway, that's too much detail to cover.

So, now to your list. I've left the guys you should really focus on in terms of who fits our need at DE.

George Selvie, South Florida*
Greg Hardy, Ole Miss*
Greg Middleton, Indiana*
Michael Johnson, Georgia Tech
Maurice Evans, Penn State*
Ricky Sapp, Clemson*


I hope this helps you.

Great freakin' post. This should be copied and pasted into all of the "What's wrong with our defense?" threads.

As you implied, Mario would be best suited playing on the strong side. Like last year, although a monster in the run game on the weak side, he seemed to be most effective rushing the passer at LDE this preseason. I wouldn't mind it as much if Weaver was actually good against the run, but he seems to have lost this ability as well.

The DT's can both be undersized, but you better be damn sure that they can get penetration consistently, else your Mike's going to be overrun. A lot is hingeing on Amobi's ability to develop into a Warren Sapp calibre player. But as it is now, I see it as a poorly-constructed defensive line.

YoungTexanFan
09-02-2008, 12:12 PM
Great freakin' post. This should be copied and pasted into all of the "What's wrong with our defense?" threads.

As you implied, Mario would be best suited playing on the strong side. Like last year, although a monster in the run game on the weak side, he seemed to be most effective rushing the passer at LDE this preseason. I wouldn't mind it as much if Weaver was actually good against the run, but he seems to have lost this ability as well.

The DT's can both be undersized, but you better be damn sure that they can get penetration consistently, else your Mike's going to be overrun. A lot is hingeing on Amobi's ability to develop into a Warren Sapp calibre player. But as it is now, I see it as a poorly-constructed defensive line.

And it take it even further, Ryans will not hold up for long with our current DT's. Ryans is considered "undersized" or more-so a MLB in the body of an OLB. He is a top notch MLB, don't get me wrong, but the physical toll he takes will show soon. His production has been very high every year, but that can also be attributed to, in part, a poor run-stopping group of DT's (UT's).

threetoedpete
09-03-2008, 11:02 AM
I think a perfect example of the 3-4 tweener is Brian Orakpo of Texas this year. He's under 270. He plays best when he's in space. He's a sideline to sideline guy, who is best at chasing down the play from the back side. Some 3-4 team will want to sniff him as an OLB come combine time. On a 4-3 team he's a situational pass rush specialist. On a 3-4 team, with a little grooming, development and luck, you get a Kevin Green style guy in a box. And..he has long arms from what I see on television.

9:50 mark
http://www.bevosports.com/tag/brian-orakpo/

http://texas.rivals.com/cviewplayer.asp?Player=36641

Polo
09-03-2008, 11:06 AM
And it take it even further, Ryans will not hold up for long with our current DT's. Ryans is considered "undersized" or more-so a MLB in the body of an OLB. He is a top notch MLB, don't get me wrong, but the physical toll he takes will show soon. His production has been very high every year, but that can also be attributed to, in part, a poor run-stopping group of DT's (UT's).


Demeco is about the same size as most 4-3 MLB's. So are our DT's.

We're not undersized. We're average.

Not a lot of 4-3 teams have 250lb+ MLB's and 320lb+ DT's in the rotation.

A Frank Okam is not common for 4-3 teams....

Look around the leauge...

rmartin65
09-03-2008, 11:21 AM
Not a lot of 4-3 teams have 250lb+ MLB's and 320lb+ DT's in the rotation.

That would be a scary D, if they could move

YoungTexanFan
09-03-2008, 01:01 PM
Demeco is about the same size as most 4-3 MLB's. So are our DT's.

We're not undersized. We're average.

Not a lot of 4-3 teams have 250lb+ MLB's and 320lb+ DT's in the rotation.

A Frank Okam is not common for 4-3 teams....

Look around the leauge...

You are concerned far too much with a number such as weight, and that is why your assessment falls a little short. A UT is much different than a NT when you break it down. No, Okam's aren't common. Look at what happened to Shaun Rodgers. That is how the Okams' of the league go these days. However, having a 305 UT and a 315 NT is the difference. The NT's are simply geared to stopping the run and the UT's are simply geared more for penetration. With DeMeco, he is undersized. I love the guy and he is a kick-ass MLB, but he is what he is. He close to average in the league if you are going strictly off some numbers such as weight as you seem to be only doing.

Polo
09-03-2008, 01:03 PM
You are concerned far too much with a number such as weight, and that is why your assessment falls a little short. No, Okam's aren't common. Look at what happened to Shaun Rodgers. That is how the Okams' of the league go these days. However, having a 305 UT and a 315 NT is the difference. With DeMeco, he is undersized. I love the guy and he is a kick-ass MLB, but he is what he is. He close to average in the league if you are going strictly off some numbers such as weight as you seem to be only doing.


I'm sorry but this post made no sense. Contradictions everywhere.


What is your definition of "undersized" if it's not dealing with height and weight ?

Please fill me in.

And save your time trying to explain the functions of different positions. I have a pretty firm grasp on that. That really has no relevance to a player being undersized anyways. Not sure why you mentioned that.

YoungTexanFan
09-03-2008, 01:20 PM
On the official site, Okoye is listed at 302; Travis Johnson is listed at 303 officially. They are both UT's. Since we both agree that Okam is an anomaly in the rotation -342- we will look at a few of the more well known DT's who aren't known for shooting the gap. John Henderson is 335. Haneysworth is 320. Pat Williams is 317.

The point isn't so much about the weight, but you do see the bigger guys anchor D-Lines. Look at the Jags and Titans D-lines, two of the best in the league, and they have a few big boys in their rotation. TJ and Okoye are average in weight, but they both play a position where other guys in the league are around 290. That difference isn't much. Now, however, the difference between Okoye at 302 and Williams at 317 is huge. They also play different roles, which is what I was explaining in my previous posts. Hope this helps.

Polo
09-03-2008, 01:27 PM
On the official site, Okoye is listed at 302; Travis Johnson is listed at 303 officially. They are both UT's. Since we both agree that Okam is an anomaly in the rotation -342- we will look at a few of the more well known DT's who aren't known for shooting the gap. John Henderson is 335. Haneysworth is 320. Pat Williams is 317.

The point isn't so much about the weight, but you do see the bigger guys anchor D-Lines. Look at the Jags and Titans D-lines, two of the best in the league, and they have a few big boys in their rotation. TJ and Okoye are average in weight, but they both play a position where other guys in the league are around 290. That difference isn't much. Now, however, the difference between Okoye at 302 and Williams at 317 is huge. They also play different roles, which is what I was explaining in my previous posts. Hope this helps.


Still contradicting yourself.

Naming a few big guys doesn't impress me. I can name a hell of a lot more guys in a 4-3 rotation closer to TJ and Okoye's size range vs. guys who are over 315. The

The phrase you are looking for isn't "undersized". What you are trying to say is that their skill sets are not suited for stopping the run.

And LOL @ you trying to explain positional roles....

Undersized implies that they are too small...or are smaller than average...

Neither our MLB nor are DT's are "undersized"....

TJ doesn't have the skill set of a run stuffing DT, he's more geared toward penetration...I get that....

But that doesn't make him "undersized"...

YoungTexanFan
09-03-2008, 01:30 PM
Naming a few big guys doesn't impress me. I can name a hell of a lot more guys closer to TJ and Okoye's weight range vs. guys who are over 315.

The phrase you are looking for isn't "undersized". What you are trying to say is that their skill sets are not suited for stopping the run.

And LOL @ you trying to explain positional roles....

Undersized implies that they are too small...or are smaller than average...

Neither our MLB nor are DT's are "undersized"....

TJ doesn't have the skill set of a run stuffing DT, he's more geared toward penetration...I get that....

But that doesn't make him "undersized"...

That's all I was saying. I was criticizing you or someone else for using weight as the sole judgement. I threw out a few names to disprove that. On average, DT's are under 305. However, most top notch DL's have a bigger guy that excels at stopping the run and play that different role we both are talking about. That's all I was trying to get at with the earlier posts. Someone was confused, so I went a different route with an explanation. However, for the NT side of the DT, our guys are slightly "undersized". However, they are just fine for what their roles are, we just can't have two of them.

Polo
09-03-2008, 01:47 PM
However, for the NT side of the DT, our guys are slightly "undersized".

I went back and looked at the 4-3 teams within the top 10 run stopping teams from last yr...

Most of those guys Nose tackles are are around the 315ish area, so I can roll with your above statement...TJ may be slightly undersized compared to others at his postition....

However...a lot of those same teams had DT's smaller than Amobi and TJ....I'm talking 280's smaller...

Demeco though is another story....He's definitely not undersized....

Ole Miss Texan
09-03-2008, 02:05 PM
Just because a player has average weight respective to his position doesn't mean he can't be undersized or oversized. Prototypical size is a better indication of what your trying to look for in a position vs. average size.

Different teams and defensive schemes have different 'prototypical' sizes for their players. Nobody really has any clue as to what our defense is.

Weight isn't necessarily a great indicator to size though (sounds odd saying it). For example, Demeco Ryans and Patrick Willis are roughly the same height/weight and now Ryans may actually edge him out. However Willis is actually a bigger player and a more typical hardnosed LB (ala Ray Lewis). Ryans is built differently than Willis. That doesn't necessarily mean one is going to be better than the other, both are incredible LB's.

Depending on the scheme the team employs, a player may be prototypical size... but for another scheme he may be undersized.

I have no idea what we're doing but what I do know is that we need OKAM to become a force or we need to find a DT that can take on that role. We need a big run stuffer up there.

Polo
09-03-2008, 02:11 PM
Weight isn't necessarily a great indicator to size though (sounds odd saying it). For example, Demeco Ryans and Patrick Willis are roughly the same height/weight and now Ryans may actually edge him out. However Willis is actually a bigger player and a more typical hardnosed LB (ala Ray Lewis). Ryans is built differently than Willis. That doesn't necessarily mean one is going to be better than the other, both are incredible LB's.



Height and weight are not only great indicators for being over or undersized, but they are the only indicators.


Their style of play has nothing to do with being undersized.

We can debate who's style of play is suited for what position all day, but this undersized stuff is mis-leading IMHO.

Not sure what you guys definition of "undersized" is if you aren't talking about actual "size".


Prototypical size and average size don't mean much anyways. We need guys who have the skill sets to do it....I could care less if those guys were 2 inches tall and weighed 15oz...

Frank Okam being big doesn't mean he's a great run stopper...It certainly helps and big guys like that clog lanes, but I'm more concerened with skill set vs. size....Esepcially after having looked at other teams' rosters..

"Size" wise our guys are right on par with the 4-3 teams around the leauge. Johnson is a BIT smaller than SOME 4-3 NT's...Okoye and Ryans are average "size" wise...

And on another note, if you guys actually go look most 4-3 teams have DT's on their rosters smaller than both Okoye and Johnson...

Rex King
09-03-2008, 10:13 PM
Prototypical size and average size don't mean much anyways. We need guys who have the skill sets to do it....I could care less if those guys were 2 inches tall and weighed 15oz...

Frank Okam being big doesn't mean he's a great run stopper...It certainly helps and big guys like that clog lanes, but I'm more concerened with skill set vs. size....Esepcially after having looked at other teams' rosters..

I took that as YTF's main point about the d-line's skill sets being mismatched. Weaver more of a 3-4 end, Mario more of a strong side end. TJ was "supposed" to be a gap-penetrator/3-tech when he came out of college. He doesn't really look like that, but he doesn't look like a lane-clogging NT/1-tech either. He looks like just a guy.

IMO, there is good reason for emphasis on size/strength, though, concerning our division and the team we struggled against. The top defenses against the run last year were either 3-4 or did have a lane-clogger. We had major problems with getting man-handled in the middle by more physical teams like the Titans and Jags. An undersized guy can have a great skillset, but that won't matter if he's three yards behind the LOS by the time he disengages. Those teams also use tight splits, making it more difficult for a UT to penetrate.

YoungTexanFan
09-04-2008, 12:23 PM
Polo, I really like that you went back and edited your post completely after the conversation had ended. That speaks volumes about you.

Anyway, you seem to be missing the original point, which I've tried explaining two different ways. How about this: Yao Ming weighed over 300lbs when he was drafted. Shaq also weighed a little over 300 when drafted. Who is the "bigger" player? People carry weight differently, and what I was pointing out is that you are only focused on that number. That isn't an accurate representation of size in some instances. Yao was undersized. Shaq was oversized. Both are over 7'2. If you look at Willis, he is a much bulkier player than Ryans, though their measurements may be similar. Ryans has the build of an OLB more than the "prototypical" MLB. TJ is undersized for his spot (I think/hope he is trying to play the NT) because of his slightly lesser weight, but more-so of how he carries it and uses it, and that does make a difference. Yes, TJ weights over 300, but the top NT's in the league are bigger, and play bigger. Back to a basketball reference. Sir Charles Barkley vs. Raef LaFrenz. Who's bigger? Who's undersized?

I'm using a lot of different examples to help you out, and I appreciate the support from Rex King and Ole Miss with trying to explain it in even more ways. Hopefully a basketball analogy will clear it up.

beerlover
09-05-2008, 07:34 PM
watching Ball St. Navy right now & there was a nice play made by DE Brandon Crawford. then it was mentioned he is 32. as in years old. seems he took 12 years off from HS to College while spending time in the Navy/Marines. talk about a man amongst boys, it made me wonder about age as a measureable?

TexansSeminole
09-09-2008, 01:33 AM
Everette Brown 6-4 250 out of Florida State is a good defensive end. He is a redshirt junior.

64 tackles, 25 TFL, 9.5 sacks, 1 FF, and 1 blocked kick over the last 2 years.

Should be great this year.

beerlover
09-09-2008, 09:10 AM
Everette Brown 6-4 250 out of Florida State is a good defensive end. He is a redshirt junior.

64 tackles, 25 TFL, 9.5 sacks, 1 FF, and 1 blocked kick over the last 2 years.

Should be great this year.

could he project as a WLB in a 4-3?

TexansSeminole
09-09-2008, 09:22 AM
could he project as a WLB in a 4-3?

No, he is a defensive end in college and will be one in the NFL.

The1ApplePie
09-09-2008, 10:51 PM
Are their any monsters like Haloti Ngata in this draft?

ie big guys that can play 3-4 DE/NT/DT

Sedrick Ellis was this type in the last draft

bah007
09-09-2008, 10:55 PM
Are their any monsters like Haloti Ngata in this draft?

ie big guys that can play 3-4 DE/NT/DT

Sedrick Ellis was this type in the last draft


Nobody as good as those two.

Terrance Taylor (Michigan) & Al Woods (LSU) are pretty good run stuffers.

Fili Moala (USC) & DeMarcus Granger (Oklahoma) are the top two DT's in the nation, I think. But I'm not sure either is really suited for the 3-4.

beerlover
09-11-2008, 04:38 AM
Nobody as good as those two.

Terrance Taylor (Michigan) & Al Woods (LSU) are pretty good run stuffers.

Fili Moala (USC) & DeMarcus Granger (Oklahoma) are the top two DT's in the nation, I think. But I'm not sure either is really suited for the 3-4.

are the Texans switching to the 3-4? if so we already have our NT in Okam :texflag:

TexansSeminole
09-14-2008, 10:51 AM
Everette Brown 6-4 250 out of Florida State is a good defensive end. He is a redshirt junior.

64 tackles, 25 TFL, 9.5 sacks, 1 FF, and 1 blocked kick over the last 2 years.

Should be great this year.

2 sacks in the 47-7 win against Tennessee Chattanooga last night. That gives him 2 on the season. (2 and a half tackles for loss)

Next week we got Wake Forest at home, so it will be a test.

YoungTexanFan
09-14-2008, 02:32 PM
I still support Selvie. He tore our red-shirt freshman to pieces last night. He split some double teams with the RB help. He was very quick off the ball. He needs another 15-20 pounds on him though. 240 is just too light.

LonerATO
09-15-2008, 03:01 AM
Vance Walker from GT if we needed a new NT otherwise English from OU or Orakpo from UT. I would say more then ever I am for spending the first 2 picks on SS/FS and then a DE/RB in the 3rd. Davis or Foster could fall to the 3rd/4th or Matt Shaughnessy for a DE if all else fails BPA's

beerlover
09-19-2008, 03:25 PM
Been really focused on the Texans need @ DE but you know the more I look at it the more I think they should fire Smith & change schemes back to a 3-4. Its been just very difficult for the Texans to address RDE even with the 1st pick & Mario Williams you still need that speed edge rusher & those best suited are the 34 OLB's. for example this upcoming draft has Ray Maualuga, Southern Cal, 6016 260. could he project to RDE in a 4-3? would you use a top 10 pick on a player you must move to a new position? or does he just fall into the hands of another 3-4 team missing pass rush?

After 4 + years looking @ College prospects for the NFL/Texans the single hardest thing I've had is projecting players to the next level @ a new position. it happens all the time but has to be a perfect situation. my gut feeling says try to evaluate a player at his natural position first, then see how he fits. when doing bpa approach this can be quite confusing so other than a top 5 pick like DE George Selvie I predict the Texans contiune to struggle addressing pass rush via the draft unless they change defenses. :glasshalffull:

Vinny
09-19-2008, 03:33 PM
Been really focused on the Texans need @ DE but you know the more I look at it the more I think they should fire Smith & change schemes back to a 3-4. Its been just very difficult for the Texans to address RDE even with the 1st pick & Mario Williams you still need that speed edge rusher & those best suited are the 34 OLB's.
when we were in a 3-4 we never had a pass rusher on that side either...unless you consider Posey and his 8 sacks a big time edge rusher. The team just needs to stop missing on guys like Charlie Clemons, Anthony Weaver and Jason Babin as edge rushers. It isn't the system....it's the scouts.

TexansSeminole
09-19-2008, 08:38 PM
I think we can afford to look at speed rushers to fill the position because of how versatile Mario is.

There isn't a shortage at the position IMO.

I'm going to continue to shout Everette Brown's name everywhere I go this season. This guy is going to be a first round-second round pick. He is just too dominate.

Watch the FSU vs Wake Forest game on saturday night.

beerlover
09-19-2008, 09:09 PM
when we were in a 3-4 we never had a pass rusher on that side either...unless you consider Posey and his 8 sacks a big time edge rusher. The team just needs to stop missing on guys like Charlie Clemons, Anthony Weaver and Jason Babin as edge rushers. It isn't the system....it's the scouts.

weren't they all projected fits by Casserly for Capers 3-4?

beerlover
09-19-2008, 09:11 PM
I think we can afford to look at speed rushers to fill the position because of how versatile Mario is.

There isn't a shortage at the position IMO.

I'm going to continue to shout Everette Brown's name everywhere I go this season. This guy is going to be a first round-second round pick. He is just too dominate.

Watch the FSU vs Wake Forest game on saturday night.

if it was so easy then why are the Texans still lacking one 8 years later?

but I will check out the FSU game, I'm hoping for the best :specnatz:

YoungTexanFan
09-20-2008, 11:09 AM
Been really focused on the Texans need @ DE but you know the more I look at it the more I think they should fire Smith & change schemes back to a 3-4. Its been just very difficult for the Texans to address RDE even with the 1st pick & Mario Williams you still need that speed edge rusher & those best suited are the 34 OLB's. for example this upcoming draft has Ray Maualuga, Southern Cal, 6016 260. could he project to RDE in a 4-3? would you use a top 10 pick on a player you must move to a new position? or does he just fall into the hands of another 3-4 team missing pass rush?

After 4 + years looking @ College prospects for the NFL/Texans the single hardest thing I've had is projecting players to the next level @ a new position. it happens all the time but has to be a perfect situation. my gut feeling says try to evaluate a player at his natural position first, then see how he fits. when doing bpa approach this can be quite confusing so other than a top 5 pick like DE George Selvie I predict the Texans contiune to struggle addressing pass rush via the draft unless they change defenses. :glasshalffull:

Well, I think that is taking it too far. We aren't ready to go back to a 3-4. Mario isn't a 3-4 end or a 3-4 OLB, so he would be wasted/stuck and he is too good to change the defense up. As for Maualuga, he is a monster; however, he isn't a DE in any scheme. He a MLB in the 4-3, and I think he is actually best suited for an ILB in the 3-4, not an OLB rush guy. One problem I pointed out a while ago is that our director of player scouting is one of (if not the only) the only holdovers from the Casserly era. I think Vinny hit the nail on the head, it is simply our scouting department.

beerlover
09-20-2008, 01:03 PM
Well, I think that is taking it too far. We aren't ready to go back to a 3-4. Mario isn't a 3-4 end or a 3-4 OLB, so he would be wasted/stuck and he is too good to change the defense up. As for Maualuga, he is a monster; however, he isn't a DE in any scheme. He a MLB in the 4-3, and I think he is actually best suited for an ILB in the 3-4, not an OLB rush guy. One problem I pointed out a while ago is that our director of player scouting is one of (if not the only) the only holdovers from the Casserly era. I think Vinny hit the nail on the head, it is simply our scouting department.

no disagreement the scouting pre-Smith sucked, my point is the foundation for such huge misses was the inability to project players into the NFL @ different positions than they were profiencent in College, ie see Babin DE moved to OLB. Maualuga is a MLB who could fill the running lanes for the Texans in a 4-3 vastly upgraded our run defense, maybe he could even add 3/4 sacks inside? that would be great, move DeMeco to WLB replacing Greenwod add some blitz packages while Ray holds the middle zone.

the advantage in the 3-4 over the 4-3 is you can fill positions later rounds to play OLB's, the tackles being higer graded picks (which we already have) two-gap which Mario is, Amobi lacks height has the speed to cause problems with Okam as the NT (Travis the Texans 1st rd. pick in 04 is a classic example of a one-gap tackle trying to play as a two-gap tackle).

bottom line to complete the 4-3 C/O requires more talent both in the middle & outside. A new MLB like Maualuga or RDE like Selvie would sort out this mess, I'm just tired & frustrated I guess from Ike to the Texans D & looking for relief from both of em :)

Vinny
09-20-2008, 01:09 PM
when we were in a 3-4 we never had a pass rusher on that side either...unless you consider Posey and his 8 sacks a big time edge rusher. The team just needs to stop missing on guys like Charlie Clemons, Anthony Weaver and Jason Babin as edge rushers. It isn't the system....it's the scouts.

weren't they all projected fits by Casserly for Capers 3-4?
Our director of pro scouting has been Bobby Grier (http://www.houstontexans.com/team/FrontOfficeBio.asp?front_office_id=61) since before we fielded a team in 2000. He is the guy behind the Stacey Macks, Charlie Clemons, Todd Wades, Robaire Smiths, and Anthony Weavers of the team. This is the same Bobby Grier who was replaced by the Patriots current regime that started winning once he was gone btw. Grier did a mediocre job with the Pats and imo has done a mediocre job with the Texans.

beerlover
09-20-2008, 04:03 PM
Our director of pro scouting has been Bobby Grier (http://www.houstontexans.com/team/FrontOfficeBio.asp?front_office_id=61) since before we fielded a team in 2000. He is the guy behind the Stacey Macks, Charlie Clemons, Todd Wades, Robaire Smiths, and Anthony Weavers of the team. This is the same Bobby Grier who was replaced by the Patriots current regime that started winning once he was gone btw. Grier did a mediocre job with the Pats and imo has done a mediocre job with the Texans.

did the Patriots use a 3-4 prior to 2000 or was that after he left?

Vinny
09-20-2008, 05:17 PM
did the Patriots use a 3-4 prior to 2000 or was that after he left?
Pete Carroll was the head coach and Steve Sidwell (ex Oilers coach) was the dc and I do believe he ran a 4-3 defense.

beerlover
09-20-2008, 07:18 PM
Pete Carroll was the head coach and Steve Sidwell (ex Oilers coach) was the dc and I do believe he ran a 4-3 defense.

there you go, a possible connection to not only the use of the 4-3 but a system (USC) defensively left untapped by the Texans. well at least I can't think of any Texans on the defensive side who where Trojans? thats really interesting stuff Vinny, thanks. would lead me to think now that switching back to a 3-4 is out of the question & that to be successful in the 4-3 they will target players who fit that scheme, which means a defensive 1st rd. pick.

USC does have a few of them too! Besides middle linebacker Ray Maualuga, 6016 260 (top of the Texans draft board?) there is OLB/DE Brian Cushing 6033 255 could be a edge pass rusher or possibly safety Kevin Ellison, 6010 225.

I'm not getting a warm fuzzy feeling over our own director of scouting (Bobby Grier) never even gave it much though before this thread, but the Texans hand may be forced to once again, becasue of need, reach/project a player to enhance pressure on the QB making the scheme more effective. never thought I would say this but I'd be willing to accept trading up in draft order to fix this problem rather than project :cool:

threetoedpete
09-21-2008, 03:36 AM
there you go, a possible connection to not only the use of the 4-3 but a system (USC) defensively left untapped by the Texans. well at least I can't think of any Texans on the defensive side who where Trojans? thats really interesting stuff Vinny, thanks. would lead me to think now that switching back to a 3-4 is out of the question & that to be successful in the 4-3 they will target players who fit that scheme, which means a defensive 1st rd. pick.

USC does have a few of them too! Besides middle linebacker Ray Maualuga, 6016 260 (top of the Texans draft board?) there is OLB/DE Brian Cushing 6033 255 could be a edge pass rusher or possibly safety Kevin Ellison, 6010 225.

I'm not getting a warm fuzzy feeling over our own director of scouting (Bobby Grier) never even gave it much though before this thread, but the Texans hand may be forced to once again, becasue of need, reach/project a player to enhance pressure on the QB making the scheme more effective. never thought I would say this but I'd be willing to accept trading up in draft order to fix this problem rather than project :cool:

What are you going to do with Mario ? Stand him up, or shift him inside as a three four DE ? Or trade him for two number 1's. Just curious ? Their DBs are adequate. The problem is there is a lack of speed in the back seven. The lack of the off side DE exasperates the lack of athleticism with the back seven. If they had the super Sam or Will they might over come their warts. But we don't have any of those either. The Steelers aren't loaded now with super LBs by accident. They drafted them and they drafted them high.

beerlover
09-21-2008, 11:14 AM
What are you going to do with Mario ? Stand him up, or shift him inside as a three four DE ? Or trade him for two number 1's. Just curious ? Their DBs are adequate. The problem is there is a lack of speed in the back seven. The lack of the off side DE exasperates the lack of athleticism with the back seven. If they had the super Sam or Will they might over come their warts. But we don't have any of those either. The Steelers aren't loaded now with super LBs by accident. They drafted them and they drafted them high.

as you mentioned the Steelers you can load up on those playmaking OLB's but they still remain strong @ ILB too (Farrior/Foote). the 3-4 seems more aggressive & easier to fill most teams using the system successfully drafting later can stock up on pass rushing ends converting them to outside LB's. My fault for raising questions in this thread about DE's, I've had questions about what is a DE who fits our system, why haven't Texans aquired one & is it the system, scouting or the coaching that determines the success or in the Texans case lack thereof?

so before I can pinpoint the DE who fits this system it makes it hard to identify those prospects come next April. focusing on pass rush for instance the Texans can improve in this area by solidfying the middle by drafting MLB Ray Maualuga, USC. I think DeMeco can be a more effective pass rushing threat from the outside & since Greenwood needs to be upgraded this move would really help. then use a 2nd rd. pick on the DL. TexansSeminole has mentioned Everette Brown, I watched him last night & looks like he has the NFL body type to hold the edge & good explosion off the snap. you commit picks one & two addressing the middle/edge of Richard Smiths 4-3 gives him the tools to run it successfully.

Mario is a beast who can fit any system DT/DE :mario2:

Vinny
09-21-2008, 12:20 PM
If they had the super Sam or Will they might over come their warts. But we don't have any of those either. The Steelers aren't loaded now with super LBs by accident. They drafted them and they drafted them high. well, they do draft linebackers high if the talent is there but arguably their best linebacker is a undrafted player from Kent State. James Harrison is a beast. James Farrior was an 8th round selection. Larry Foote was a second day pick as well... LaMarr Woodley was a late second round pick and Lawrence Timmons was the 15th overall pick but but he is still playing behind Larry Foote but comes in on special matchups and nickel packages.

TexansSeminole
09-23-2008, 08:58 PM
2 sacks in the 47-7 win against Tennessee Chattanooga last night. That gives him 2 on the season. (2 and a half tackles for loss)

Next week we got Wake Forest at home, so it will be a test.

Just an update on Brown.

As you may or may not know FSU lost to WF over the weekend. The offense was atrocious giving up 7 turnovers, however our defense only allowed 12 points despite leaving our base defense out for the majority of the game, including against 4 and 5 WR sets. Wasn't really agreeing with that defensive play calling while I was in the stands, but I can't argue with the results, and never should I ever doubt Mickey Andrews and his coaching/playcalling ability.

Everette Brown had some nice plays in the game. He blew up a run play in the beginning of the game. 2 TFL but no sacks. They rolled away from his side ALOT. He had alot of hurries as I noticed him in the QBs face quite often.

That gives him 7 tackles 4.5 TFL (39 yards lost on those tackles) and 2 sacks through 3 games. He's got some solid numbers so far, but the rest of the year will be quite the test for him.

We play Colorado in Jacksonville on Saturday @ 3:30. The game will be on abc, hopefully the Houston/Texas area will get this game instead of Fresno St. @ UCLA. My guess is yall will get the FSU game because we are playing a Big 12 opponent.

Check Brown out if you get a chance. He had a pretty damn good game against Colorado last year, giving Hawkins alot of trouble.

I see Beerlover watched him play and was impressed so I am glad to spread the word on this guy, because he really doesn't have a whole lot of buzz from what I can see.

Ole Miss Texan
09-24-2008, 06:33 PM
Thanks for the heads up. I'll definitely try to catch this game and watch him play.

threetoedpete
09-25-2008, 04:35 AM
Just an update on Brown.

As you may or may not know FSU lost to WF over the weekend. The offense was atrocious giving up 7 turnovers, however our defense only allowed 12 points despite leaving our base defense out for the majority of the game, including against 4 and 5 WR sets. Wasn't really agreeing with that defensive play calling while I was in the stands, but I can't argue with the results, and never should I ever doubt Mickey Andrews and his coaching/playcalling ability.

Everette Brown had some nice plays in the game. He blew up a run play in the beginning of the game. 2 TFL but no sacks. They rolled away from his side ALOT. He had alot of hurries as I noticed him in the QBs face quite often.

That gives him 7 tackles 4.5 TFL (39 yards lost on those tackles) and 2 sacks through 3 games. He's got some solid numbers so far, but the rest of the year will be quite the test for him.

We play Colorado in Jacksonville on Saturday @ 3:30. The game will be on abc, hopefully the Houston/Texas area will get this game instead of Fresno St. @ UCLA. My guess is yall will get the FSU game because we are playing a Big 12 opponent.

Check Brown out if you get a chance. He had a pretty damn good game against Colorado last year, giving Hawkins alot of trouble.

I see Beerlover watched him play and was impressed so I am glad to spread the word on this guy, because he really doesn't have a whole lot of buzz from what I can see.

I'm high on Orakpo with the second round pick. Same type of guy but he's just dropped down to DE. He doesn't have the stats yet....and he's was hurt some last year. We'll see how he fairs in a couple of weeks against the monsters from OU.

bah007
09-27-2008, 03:13 PM
Greg Hardy has looked impressive against Florida.

I expect that Ole Miss Texan is glued to his TV right now.

Ole Miss Texan
09-27-2008, 05:23 PM
Greg Hardy has looked impressive against Florida.

I expect that Ole Miss Texan is glued to his TV right now.

LOL, damn skippy! what a great effort by Hardy. he looked great. 1.5 sacks or som'n. definitely a guy to keep watching for us.

bah007
09-27-2008, 07:50 PM
In previous years, Brian Orakpo has been held back by defensive coordinators who wanted to play run first & pass second.

This year, with Will Muschamp calling the games for the defense, Orakpo has 5.5 sacks & 7 hurries through four games.

He looked unstoppable today against Arkansas.

LonerATO
09-27-2008, 09:06 PM
I am also feeling Orakpo right now

bah007
09-27-2008, 09:11 PM
I am also feeling Orakpo right now

Muschamp has brought something new to that defense. Team is averaging four sacks per game & is only giving up 10 points per game.

Of course, they haven't exactly been playing top ranked teams every week...

TexansSeminole
09-27-2008, 11:23 PM
Everette Brown 6-4 250 out of Florida State is a good defensive end. He is a redshirt junior.

64 tackles, 25 TFL, 9.5 sacks, 1 FF, and 1 blocked kick over the last 2 years.

Should be great this year.

Another update on Everette Brown.

Just drove back to Tallahassee from Jacksonville from the FSU vs. Colorado game. We won. E. Brown had a fantastic game. He forced a fumble on the QB in the beginning of the game and FSU recovered. It led to points, however it didn't count as a sack. It's ok though because he got one later in the game.

He had 3 tackles, 2 TFL (-9yds), 1 forced fumble, 1 sack (-7yds).

That gives him 10 tackles, 6.5 TFL (48 yards lost), 3 sacks, and 1 forced fumble. This is after 4 games.

He had this one spin move that was amazingly fast. He literally put the OL on his ass with the spin move. He ended up getting the sack on that play.

TexansSeminole
10-26-2008, 10:53 AM
Everette Brown had a big game against Virginia Tech on Saturday: 5 tackles, 4 tackles for loss, and 3 sacks.

For the year through 7 games: 16 tackles, 11 TFL, 6 sacks and 1 FF.

I'm curious to see where this guy is projected. Kiper has him as the #5 JUNIOR defensive end. If he were rated there, it's hard for me to see him in the first round.

I would think he was a first rounder, but he could slip into the second. He was hard to find in the 2 games before this game on Saturday. He got alot of double teams, but he needs to fight out of those.

Anybody else have an idea?

My Top DEs:

1. Brian Orakpo, Texas
2. George Selvie, South Florida
3. Everette Brown, Florida St
4. Michael Johnson, Georgia Tech
5. Greg Hardy, Mississippi
6. Tyson Jackson, LSU

Amazing how Orakpo has jumped up over Selvie on most people's boards. I guess Selvie hasn't helped himself too much this year. Here are Selvie's season stats through 6 games:

25 tackles, 6 tackles for loss, and 3.0 sacks.

To compare here is Orakpo's numbers through 8 games:

33 tackles, 14 tackles for loss, and 9.0 sacks and 3 FF.

Wolf6151
10-26-2008, 11:40 PM
I'm not familiar with Everette Brown so I can't comment on him but Michael Johnson has been falling down many peoples mock drafts for lack of production. He's got all the physical attributes but he doesn't seem to have the heart. I watched some of the GT/Clemson game last week and he seems to just go through the motions and take many plays off giving a half hearted effort. You'd think that he knows everyone in the country is watching him and play better but he sure didn't seem to be putting much effort into his game.

bah007
10-27-2008, 11:01 AM
My problem with Johnson is that he doesn't fight when he is beat.

He goes full motor if he gets the jump on the tackle, but as soon as the tackle attacks him he quits.

Either he doesn't care or he doesn't like contact. Either one of those is a bad thing for a DE prospect.

bah007
10-27-2008, 12:24 PM
Everette Brown had a big game against Virginia Tech on Saturday: 5 tackles, 4 tackles for loss, and 3 sacks.

For the year through 7 games: 16 tackles, 11 TFL, 6 sacks and 1 FF.

I'm curious to see where this guy is projected. Kiper has him as the #5 JUNIOR defensive end. If he were rated there, it's hard for me to see him in the first round.

I would think he was a first rounder, but he could slip into the second. He was hard to find in the 2 games before this game on Saturday. He got alot of double teams, but he needs to fight out of those.

Anybody else have an idea?

My Top DEs:

1. Brian Orakpo, Texas
2. George Selvie, South Florida
3. Everette Brown, Florida St
4. Michael Johnson, Georgia Tech
5. Greg Hardy, Mississippi
6. Tyson Jackson, LSU

Amazing how Orakpo has jumped up over Selvie on most people's boards. I guess Selvie hasn't helped himself too much this year. Here are Selvie's season stats through 6 games:

25 tackles, 6 tackles for loss, and 3.0 sacks.

To compare here is Orakpo's numbers through 8 games:

33 tackles, 14 tackles for loss, and 9.0 sacks and 3 FF.

I like Brown, but Orakpo has another stat that shows just how dominant he has been:

Orakpo has 11 QB Hurries. Brown has 1.

That's no knock on Brown. But it shows that Orakpo has pretty much been living in offensive backfields this season.

TexansSeminole
10-27-2008, 02:14 PM
I like Brown, but Orakpo has another stat that shows just how dominant he has been:

Orakpo has 11 QB Hurries. Brown has 1.

That's no knock on Brown. But it shows that Orakpo has pretty much been living in offensive backfields this season.

Some teams don't count this stat.

In the VT game alone he had 2 or 3 hurries, but they didn't count them. Same goes for like every other team stats I have found.

Texas is the only school that actually counts the hurried stat that I have seen. Look at the number of hurries for all of the Texas defense and compare that to the other stats you've seen. They are much different. For example, Orakpo alone actually has 21 according to link (http://texassports.com/sports/m-footbl/stats/2008-2009/teamcume.html#TEAM.DEF) which is texassports.com. The whole Texas team has 94! 94! Their opponents have 8. FSU as a team has 8. Seems a bit skewed. JMO

I don't think FSU does because of how often we blitz. Practically every passing play is a hurry. We blitz like 85% of the time, it's just the Mickey Andrews style of defense. You'd just be giving hurries every pass play. It'd be pointless.

Teams calculate stats differently.

Some teams may count every tackle on the quarterback behind the LOS as a sack, but I know other teams do not, like FSU and GA Tech. If it's a designated QB run then they only count it as a TFL. It's happened numerous times this year.

I go mostly by what I have seen when I watch the teams, and I would say that Orakpo should be higher rated than Brown and he should be the highest rated DE.

Michael Johnson is really not impressive IMO.

bah007
10-27-2008, 02:44 PM
Some teams don't count this stat.

In the VT game alone he had 2 or 3 hurries, but they didn't count them. Same goes for like every other team stats I have found.

Texas is the only school that actually counts the hurried stat that I have seen. Look at the number of hurries for all of the Texas defense and compare that to the other stats you've seen. They are much different. For example, Orakpo alone actually has 21 according to link (http://texassports.com/sports/m-footbl/stats/2008-2009/teamcume.html#TEAM.DEF) which is texassports.com. The whole Texas team has 94! 94! Their opponents have 8. FSU as a team has 8. Seems a bit skewed. JMO

I don't think FSU does because of how often we blitz. Practically every passing play is a hurry. We blitz like 85% of the time, it's just the Mickey Andrews style of defense. You'd just be giving hurries every pass play. It'd be pointless.

Teams calculate stats differently.

Some teams may count every tackle on the quarterback behind the LOS as a sack, but I know other teams do not, like FSU and GA Tech. If it's a designated QB run then they only count it as a TFL. It's happened numerous times this year.

I go mostly by what I have seen when I watch the teams, and I would say that Orakpo should be higher rated than Brown and he should be the highest rated DE.

Michael Johnson is really not impressive IMO.

Hmm...

You may be right about the hurries. I get my stats from the official NCAA statistics but I guess if a team didn't calculate those & send them in then all their players would "officially" have zero. I didn't think about that.

I know Texas doesn't count tackling the QB for a loss as a sack though. The play has to be designated as a pass.

TexansSeminole
10-27-2008, 02:47 PM
I know Texas doesn't count tackling the QB for a loss as a sack though. The play has to be designated as a pass.

I think most teams do it that way.

As for the hurry thing I noticed it a few years ago. Just a difference in how some teams count hurries. Some may say it's a hurry if the guy is behind the LOS. Some may say it's a hurry only if the defender touches the quarterback as he throws. Who knows. But you look at the stats for different teams, and see 94 for one and 8 for the other, you get the idea that they are counting that particular stat very differently.

Where do you have Michael Johnson as far as round? I really don't even think he is first round material, production wise.

Goatcheese
10-27-2008, 03:59 PM
Johnson should still finish with 5-6 sacks. That will be enough to make some team overlook how lazy he is, and take him pretty high based on potential.

He's probably still a top 20 pick. Mayby top 10 if he does well at the senior bowl, and has a great combine. I just hope it isn't Houston who bites.

Orakpo and Hardy are the only DE the Texans should be looking at in round one. If they're not there look at DT, FS, OLB, before Johnson.

However, if he flops at the Senior bowl, and can't put up a 4.6 and 20 reps on the combine he could drop into round 2. There's also the idea some folks are floating that he's too tall to play OLB in a 3-4 which reduces the pool of potential teams that will look at him, and he could drop further.

My view is that he will be a good situational pass rusher, but I wouldn't bite on a part time guy in the first round.

bah007
10-27-2008, 04:00 PM
I think most teams do it that way.

As for the hurry thing I noticed it a few years ago. Just a difference in how some teams count hurries. Some may say it's a hurry if the guy is behind the LOS. Some may say it's a hurry only if the defender touches the quarterback as he throws. Who knows. But you look at the stats for different teams, and see 94 for one and 8 for the other, you get the idea that they are counting that particular stat very differently.

Where do you have Michael Johnson as far as round? I really don't even think he is first round material, production wise.

He doesn't sniff the 1st based on production this season.

But because of his athleticism & potential, I think he could go anywhere from 15-30. It won't become clear until the season is over and even after the combine.

I wouldn't draft him though. I question his motor and his dedication. Give me Orakpo, Selvie, or Brown first.

TexansSeminole
11-09-2008, 12:28 AM
Another 4 tackles for loss and 3 sacks for Everette Brown.

Season through 9 games: 23 tackles, 15 TFL for -91 yards, 9 sacks, 2 FF.

Defense was dominating, except our secondary was a bit off today. Refs were absolutely horrible for both sides.

Everette Brown is starting to hit his stride. I think he is first round caliber. I would take him 20+ anyday. Chris Crane of Boston College is the next target.

Other Top DEs:

Brian Orakpo through 9 of 10 games (missed a game): 35 tackles, 15 TFL for -90 yards, 9 sacks, 3 FFs.

George Selvie through 8 of 9 games (missed a game): 35 tackles, 11 TFL for -61 yards, 5 sacks, 1 FR.

Tyson Jackson through 9 games: 27 tackles, 7.5 TFL for -31 yards, 4.5 sacks, 1 FR.

Michael Johnson through 10 games: 35 tackles, 12 TFL for -72 yards, 6 sacks, 2 FFs, 1 FR.

Jerry Hughes through 11 games: 43 tackles, 17.5 TFL for -120 yards, 14 sacks, 5 FFs, 3 FR.

Jerry Hughes is #98 for TCU. He went to Austin High School in Sugar Land. 6-2 248 pound Junior. Anybody catch a glimpse of this guy this year?

Last year stats for Jerry Hughes: 30 tackles, 3.5 TFL for -18 yards, and 1 sack.

bah007
11-09-2008, 10:27 PM
I've seen Hughes play three times.

He was the best player on the field in every game.

Converted running back in only his second year at DE.

Killer Bee
11-20-2008, 01:16 AM
Check out this Brian Orakpo clip.

http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/video/videopage?videoId=3650227

bah007
11-22-2008, 06:40 PM
Greg Hardy is lights out for Ole Miss.

beerlover
11-22-2008, 09:57 PM
Greg Hardy is lights out for Ole Miss.

Hardy smardy, the guy who really impress'es me is Jerry Peria DT 6-3 300. put him next to Amobi & trade Travis for a 3rd or 4th rd. pick. this guy has great explosion for his size & high motor to chase down the QB once the pocket is compromised. pressure from the inside is a higher need & Peria has a higher ceiling than teammate Greg Hardy.

TexansSeminole
11-23-2008, 12:03 AM
Everette Brown put on a clinic today in the 37-3 win over Maryland.

3.5 sacks and 4.5 tackles for loss tonight. He also added a FF.

He now has 12.5 sacks with 20.5 tackles for loss on the season.

Trap_Star
11-26-2008, 01:29 PM
Another update on Everette Brown.

Just drove back to Tallahassee from Jacksonville from the FSU vs. Colorado game. We won. E. Brown had a fantastic game. He forced a fumble on the QB in the beginning of the game and FSU recovered. It led to points, however it didn't count as a sack. It's ok though because he got one later in the game.

He had 3 tackles, 2 TFL (-9yds), 1 forced fumble, 1 sack (-7yds).

That gives him 10 tackles, 6.5 TFL (48 yards lost), 3 sacks, and 1 forced fumble. This is after 4 games.

He had this one spin move that was amazingly fast. He literally put the OL on his ass with the spin move. He ended up getting the sack on that play.


i'm sold on Everette Brown. he was UNBLOCKABLE in the Maryland game.

Blake
11-26-2008, 11:11 PM
Im not sold on E Brown just yet. I was watching some clips of him since I havent watched a FSU game yet, but he seems to only get his pressure/tackle/sacks when he jumps the snap count. I just dont think he will get that type of jump on any team who knows how to mix it up. And what is that weird shoulder dip thing he does? Looks strange.

Ill take Orakpophobia first, but IMO we need to focus on our secondary.

Blake
11-26-2008, 11:19 PM
Also im going to toot Brandon Grahams horn until the draft because he is going to be a fine NFL player. Possible 3-4 OLB like LaMarr Woodley.

Dont be surprised to see a 3-4 team like the Dolphins to take him in the top 2 rounds.

TexansSeminole
11-27-2008, 05:15 PM
Im not sold on E Brown just yet. I was watching some clips of him since I havent watched a FSU game yet, but he seems to only get his pressure/tackle/sacks when he jumps the snap count. I just dont think he will get that type of jump on any team who knows how to mix it up. And what is that weird shoulder dip thing he does? Looks strange.


I think you need to watch a game. Who cares if a shoulder dip move looks strange? If he gets to the qb then he gets to the qb. To say he gets all his sacks by jumping the snap count is uninformed at best.

Best argument I have heard for us not drafting him is by threetoadpete because it actually has some validity. He may be better suited for a 3-4 because of his speed, athleticism, and weight (254). So he may get picked up by a 3-4 team early as he seems to be the best OLB in a 3-4 scheme prospect. Him and Stintim from virginia.

I personally think he can play DE in a 4-3 in the NFL. If we put mario at strongside defensive end, and brown at weakside defensive end I think we would be more than fine.

Thing about it is that if we pick in the top 10 it may be a reach to take any DE in this draft.

steelbtexan
11-27-2008, 06:27 PM
I will take Brown any day @ 6'4 he can add weight if he needs to but I like him the way he is. Charles Haley & Dwight Freeney clones are good enough for me.

Opposite MW we would have a pass rush second to none. IMO

bah007
11-28-2008, 12:02 PM
I think you need to watch a game. Who cares if a shoulder dip move looks strange? If he gets to the qb then he gets to the qb. To say he gets all his sacks by jumping the snap count is uninformed at best.

Best argument I have heard for us not drafting him is by threetoadpete because it actually has some validity. He may be better suited for a 3-4 because of his speed, athleticism, and weight (254). So he may get picked up by a 3-4 team early as he seems to be the best OLB in a 3-4 scheme prospect. Him and Stintim from virginia.

I personally think he can play DE in a 4-3 in the NFL. If we put mario at strongside defensive end, and brown at weakside defensive end I think we would be more than fine.

Thing about it is that if we pick in the top 10 it may be a reach to take any DE in this draft.

Orakpo will be a top 5 lock after the combine.

That is going to be a hell of a show.

beerlover
11-28-2008, 12:19 PM
Orakpo will be a top 5 lock after the combine.

That is going to be a hell of a show.

Orakpo would be a reach in the top 5... should be more like a Top 15 pick depending on individual teams boards. don't forget there is gonna be a serious injection of the top underclassmen coming out to get that big guarenteed money before the new collective bargaining agreement :money:

bah007
11-29-2008, 12:25 AM
Orakpo would be a reach in the top 5... should be more like a Top 15 pick depending on individual teams boards. don't forget there is gonna be a serious injection of the top underclassmen coming out to get that big guarenteed money before the new collective bargaining agreement :money:

I'm not saying that I would necesarilly take Orakpo at 5, but he is gonna be one of those guys that gets taken a little higher than he should because of his combine numbers.

Jackie Chiles
11-29-2008, 01:06 AM
I'm not saying that I would necesarilly take Orakpo at 5, but he is gonna be one of those guys that gets taken a little higher than he should because of his combine numbers.

Yeah everything I have heard about him and seen leads me to believe this. Saw an interesting blurb on Zierlein's blog the other day about him:

"I like Orakpo, but not until later in the first. I know one scout who likes him and compares him to Matt Forte in that "he'll be solid in this league, but not great" and he puts a 3rd round grade on him because "he's not a deluxe athlete, deluxe pass rusher or deluxe run-stuffer by NFL standards."

3rd round grade? I don't see it, even if I didn't read stuff like:
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/columns/story?id=3420212
I mean he is one of those guys that just jumps out on defense, to me at least. If he isn't a deluxe athlete/pass rusher then who is?

Maddict5
11-29-2008, 06:17 AM
I'm not saying that I would necesarilly take Orakpo at 5, but he is gonna be one of those guys that gets taken a little higher than he should because of his combine numbers.

im not against orakpo or anything but after gholston teams might be a little more wary of combine monsters/weightlifters

ubecool454
11-29-2008, 06:51 AM
Defensive End may be a critical position for us to draft next year, enough to where we could spend a 1st rounder again. Below is a generic list of some of the top DE's that could be in the draft (* denotes underclassmen)

I have a question for those great at scouting college talent that's really important to keep in mind when watching the college football season. What's the best way to determine a 4-3 DE vs. a 3-4 DE vs. a 3-4 OLB???? Other questions that would be great if they could be answered: What should we look for in a DE to compliment Mario? (speed rusher?) What's the best way to scout for speed, how quick they are off the snap, their motor, run stopping, coverage, etc.?

Mainly, I don't want to be watching a lot of George Sylvie (for example) to see if he'd be a good fit on the Texans if he's just going to end up being a 3-4 outside linebacker in the NFL. Thanks for the help guys.

a list:
Defensive Ends:
1. George Selvie, South Florida*
2. Tyson Jackson, LSU
3. Greg Hardy, Ole Miss*
4. Greg Middleton, Indiana*
5. Michael Johnson, Georgia Tech
6. Maurice Evans, Penn State*
7. Brian Orakpo, Texas
8. Auston English, Oklahoma*
9. Tim Jamison, Michigan
10. Ricky Sapp, Clemson*

Michael Johnson is our guy. He should be there when we pick. Excellent speed, size and strength to go opposite Mario.

ubecool454
11-29-2008, 09:34 AM
Im not sold on E Brown just yet. I was watching some clips of him since I havent watched a FSU game yet, but he seems to only get his pressure/tackle/sacks when he jumps the snap count. I just dont think he will get that type of jump on any team who knows how to mix it up. And what is that weird shoulder dip thing he does? Looks strange.

Ill take Orakpophobia first, but IMO we need to focus on our secondary.

NO, Defensive end is the most pressing need. I don't see anything wrong with the secondary except for youth and inexperience and the star in the secondary coming back from a devastating injury. Hopefully with all the money we have under the cap this offseason we can find a nasty free agent safety. If you like Orakpo you will like Michael Johnson DE from GA Tech even better. Thats the guy I hope we take.

dsorc
11-29-2008, 10:28 AM
NO, Defensive end is the most pressing need. I don't see anything wrong with the secondary except for youth and inexperience and the star in the secondary coming back from a devastating injury. Hopefully with all the money we have under the cap this offseason we can find a nasty free agent safety. If you like Orakpo you will like Michael Johnson DE from GA Tech even better. Thats the guy I hope we take.

That's a good description of our CB situation but our S situation is ugly. At the very least we have to re-sign Wilson and draft a SS with some coverage ability. We may have a lot of guys but it's useless depth for the most part. I agree with DE in the first, be it Orakpo, Johnson, Brown, or Selvie, but we should be looking at S in the second. Thankfully, there will be more S with 2nd round grade than 1st round grade. I'm guessing Chacellor, Chung, Nic Harris, Hamlin, and Rashad Johnson will all get 2nd round grades.

The1ApplePie
11-29-2008, 03:22 PM
Seeing Michael Johnson with GT right now. Man he is a lazy looking player

beerlover
11-29-2008, 07:19 PM
Seeing Michael Johnson with GT right now. Man he is a lazy looking player

indifferent :specnatz:

steelbtexan
11-29-2008, 07:21 PM
2nd rd. IMO

painekiller
11-29-2008, 10:10 PM
Seeing Michael Johnson with GT right now. Man he is a lazy looking player

That is the way I saw it. He has the tools to take over a game, but he does not seem to care.

Give me a high motor guy any day.

threetoedpete
12-02-2008, 11:49 AM
I'm not saying that I would necessarily take Orakpo at 5, but he is gonna be one of those guys that gets taken a little higher than he should because of his combine numbers.

This is what I'm thinking also. I don't know how much Parcells will have to say about it....but it looks like a match to me. Selvie would work too. So far the locks I'm projecting is one of the high end tight ends to Hotlanta and a tweener to Miami. Young QBs best Friend is a great TE who can work the seems of a two deep zone.

Not saying top two picks....but Norwood from South Carolina might be a third or fourth round candidate. Will line backer....moved to DE by an aggressive DC...sounds a lot like Orakpo. Anything high end from USC, we're going to sniff for the man with the big money clips.

How many tackles for loss does he, Norwood have there Seminole ? They said on the Clemson game he's leading the SEC in TFL. Raw with the shoulder dip...you can coach that up. The guy moves like a cat who's zeroed in on the sounds of a mouse. Not tring to put Adibi on the pine just saying you can never have too many athletic LBs.

McShay's has them like this now.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft


All you skill guys...I know you're out there....look where he has Wells ranked.

Why ? He's a big RB who runs with his pads way to high. If you draft him go out and hirer a wielder . Get some four inch pipe make a run, a box of four sixteen foot sections jointed by two foot cross sections every two feet. Make it three and a half feet high. Run him through the chute for six months. If they don't coach him up to run with his pads lower the guy will have a very short NFL career. One thing to run like Erick Dickerson if you have the third gear...Beaner Wells doesn't. After the third down play on the goal line in last nights game....power running back may have just trumped center or DE as a position of need. Slaton has to have a soul mate.

threetoedpete
12-02-2008, 12:09 PM
indifferent :specnatz:

It may end up that he is the best of the bunch....just on numbers. However, I've never seen a high end guy throw forty millions bucks away quicker than Mr. Johnson. You'd think the brass ring would have him highly motivated ? If you can't get up for forty million bucks....the question I have is what or who the heck will get you up ? I've had danger Will Robinson all over the guy for a few weeks now. I could be wrong. I see the world through orange glasses for sure...I've got no problem with Everett. High end guy at what he does and it slams a position of need. That does it for me. Rather have Orakpo...whatever.

TexansSeminole
12-02-2008, 12:18 PM
Not saying top two picks....but Norwood from South Carolina might be a third or fourth round candidate. Will line backer....moved to DE by an aggressive DC...sounds a lot like Orakpo. Anything high end from USC, we're going to sniff for the man with the big money clips.

How many tackles for loss does he, Norwood have there Seminole ? They said on the Clemson game he's leading the SEC in TFL. Raw with the shoulder dip...you can coach that up. The guy moves like a cat who's zeroed in on the sounds of a mouse. Not tring to put Adibi on the pine just saying you can never have too many athletic LBs.

Looks like Norwood's stats on the season are as follows:

66 tackles, 13.5 TFL, 9 sacks, 1 FF, and 1 FR.

Last year's stats:

69 tackles, 19.5 TFL, 6 sacks, 3 FR, and a blocked kick.

I haven't seen Norwood play much. I normally key on Emanuel Cook when I watch the Gamecocks. Cook did not have a very good game against Clemson, but I still would take him at the top of the 2nd round.

bah007
12-02-2008, 12:51 PM
...How many tackles for loss does he, Norwood have there Seminole ? They said on the Clemson game he's leading the SEC in TFL...

Malcolm Sheppard, Arkansas, actually leads the SEC with 16. Seminole is right, Norwood has 13.5

Weren't you the one that brought up Jarron Gilbert from San Jose St a few weeks ago. If you were, good call. He is leading the country with 22 TFLs.

Our friends Brown (4th in the nation with 20.5) & Orakpo (leads the Big XII with 15.5) are doing well too.

threetoedpete
12-02-2008, 03:01 PM
Malcolm Sheppard, Arkansas, actually leads the SEC with 16. Seminole is right, Norwood has 13.5

Weren't you the one that brought up Jarron Gilbert from San Jose St a few weeks ago. If you were, good call. He is leading the country with 22 TFLs.

Our friends Brown (4th in the nation with 20.5) & Orakpo (leads the Big XII with 15.5) are doing well too.

They've got that kid playing out of position Bah....He's at least a De in a 3-4. I'd draft him for our 4-3 as a rotation guy in a heart beat. Parsells took the kid from hampton in the fourth last year. You can bet money parcells has Gillbert tagerted too. They get that beast in with what they already have and a speed guy at OLB...they're going to be an awesome defense.

Maddict5
12-31-2008, 07:01 AM
i'm sold on Everette Brown. he was UNBLOCKABLE in the Maryland game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXJJ14HL5EE&feature=PlayList&p=7B99EE0B69AE8642&index=18

a nice long highlight vid of everette brown... love that spin move he has (he can give mario a few pointers on it!)

i dont (cant) watch college fb but i like this guy from what ive seen

Grams
12-31-2008, 07:52 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXJJ14HL5EE&feature=PlayList&p=7B99EE0B69AE8642&index=18

a nice long highlight vid of everette brown... love that spin move he has (he can give mario a few pointers on it!)

i dont (cant) watch college fb but i like this guy from what ive seen

Just WOW. No way he is there at 15 tho.

Maddict5
12-31-2008, 09:02 AM
Just WOW. No way he is there at 15 tho.

unlikely but you never know.. there seem to be alot of really good LT's and orakpo and other de's etc ahead of him at the moment

i think we'll get a good player either way. william moore would be a nice addition also at safety

TexansSeminole
12-31-2008, 01:30 PM
E Brown had another sack and a forced fumble in the bowl game against Wisconson. A linebacker picked the fumble up and returned it for a TD.

Season stats: 36 tackles, 21.5 TFL, 13.5 sacks, 4 FF, 1 FR.

Career stats: 100 tackles, 46.5 TFL, 23 sacks.

Ole Miss Texan
12-31-2008, 01:55 PM
E Brown had another sack and a forced fumble in the bowl game against Wisconson. A linebacker picked the fumble up and returned it for a TD.

Season stats: 36 tackles, 21.5 TFL, 13.5 sacks, 4 FF, 1 FR.

Career stats: 100 tackles, 46.5 TFL, 23 sacks.

weak sauce. ;)

Spled
12-31-2008, 04:28 PM
So many of the ends and tackles were dissapointing last year, at least as rookies. Glenn Dorsey - 46 tackles, 1 sack. Vernon Gholston - 13 tackles, 0 sacks. Derrick Harvey - 19 tackles, 3 and a half sacks. Kentwan Balmer - 7 tackles, 0 sacks. It seems like defensive end's and tackles are as big a risk as quarterbacks in the 1st round.

Honoring Earl 34
12-31-2008, 05:12 PM
So many of the ends and tackles were dissapointing last year, at least as rookies. Glenn Dorsey - 46 tackles, 1 sack. Vernon Gholston - 13 tackles, 0 sacks. Derrick Harvey - 19 tackles, 3 and a half sacks. Kentwan Balmer - 7 tackles, 0 sacks. It seems like defensive end's and tackles are as big a risk as quarterbacks in the 1st round.

I think alot of DL have a hard time at first because their used to being physically superior than their opponent . Like a QB they have to adapt somewhat ... some can't do it .

BattleRedToro
12-31-2008, 05:13 PM
So many of the ends and tackles were dissapointing last year, at least as rookies. Glenn Dorsey - 46 tackles, 1 sack. Vernon Gholston - 13 tackles, 0 sacks. Derrick Harvey - 19 tackles, 3 and a half sacks. Kentwan Balmer - 7 tackles, 0 sacks. It seems like defensive end's and tackles are as big a risk as quarterbacks in the 1st round.

How is Glenn Dorsey's 46 Tackles 1 sack a dissappointment? He's a 3technique tackle with no help at DE.

TexansSeminole
12-31-2008, 10:16 PM
How is Glenn Dorsey's 46 Tackles 1 sack a dissappointment. He's a 3technique tackle with no help at DE.

I agree completely. Plus the defensive staff is not doing well.

Spled
01-01-2009, 03:53 PM
Mario got 4 sacks as a rookie playing on 1 foot. Dorsey will probably develop, but he did not have a good rookie year.

BSofA04
01-01-2009, 03:55 PM
Brian Orakpo in Reliant. Just imagine him in a Texan uniform, wreaking havok with Williams in the backfield.
http://pictopia.com/perl/get_image?provider_id=240&size=550x550_mb&ptp_photo_id=559545

Spled
01-01-2009, 04:07 PM
He won't make it to 15. Maybe George Selvie. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qIAFNvP-rg

BSofA04
01-01-2009, 04:53 PM
He won't make it to 15. Maybe George Selvie. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qIAFNvP-rg
Probably true. I like Selvie and Hardy, not too sure about Michael Johnson. But Orakpo would be best case scenerio IMO.

Maddict
01-01-2009, 07:05 PM
He won't make it to 15. Maybe George Selvie. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qIAFNvP-rg

color me unimpressed especially as these are his 'highlights'... he beat his man twice in that whole vid. once with a perfect jump on the snap and the other with a speed move.

the rest of the time he made those plays he was either unblocked or he got a sack from stupid qb play where they held the ball for 5 seconds before rolling out or running straight into him..

neither will happen much in the nfl and therefore i dont think he'll do much there either

was385
01-05-2009, 12:00 AM
A lot depends on whether the FO wants to go after a full time starter or a pass rush specialist. If we go after the second, I think Cody Brown out of Uconn could be good to look at. Undersized, but hes got some pretty darn good speed off the edge. Could be had in the fourth round possibly

beerlover
01-05-2009, 12:17 AM
A lot depends on whether the FO wants to go after a full time starter or a pass rush specialist. If we go after the second, I think Cody Brown out of Uconn could be good to look at. Undersized, but hes got some pretty darn good speed off the edge. Could be had in the fourth round possibly

I think some 3-4 team might snatch him up before that & move him to OLB.

was385
01-05-2009, 12:23 AM
I agree. There are a lot of these guys that could fall or get snatched and hopefully Houston ends up with someone that can put some pressure on the QB opposite Mario.

Ole Miss Texan
02-10-2009, 07:38 PM
Whoa. I've never even considered this. Peria Jerry as a 4-3 DE!? If he's really this versatile, he really could be an option at 15. Tell me what you guys think of this...

Unfortunately, this kid is out of shape and overweight because somebody had the bright idea that, because of his size, Peria would be a good DT. That was a big mistake! Peria must get in better shape; if he does, he could be an excellent DE in a 4-3, then moved inside on pure passing downs to take advantage of his quickness. He is not very good against the run as a DT; however, as a DE he uses his hands well and does a very good job against the run. If you slim this kid down to 275-280 lbs, you will have yourself one hell of a 4-3 defensive end.

A few years back there was a DT drafted in the 1985 draft. He was the very first pick in the draft. He was overweight and, yet still, was a dominant player for his college team. In short, Bruce Smith transformed himself from an overweight potential defensive tackle who had unusual speed and quickness for his size into a pass rushing, 270 lb pain in the ass on and off the field, Hall of Fame DE.

I personally would not hesitate to take a chance on drafting Peria in this draft and then moving him and grooming him for the DE position. His unusual talent only comes along once every nineteen years and for that reason alone, he is worth taking a chance on.

http://thehuddlereport.com/ppSD/protected/archive/2009DRAFT/PlayerProfiles/Peria.Jerry.htm