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View Full Version : For those who complain about Smith - here's your challange


Texanmike02
08-26-2008, 11:21 AM
OK. I think this deserves a new thread. We've all complained about the defense, some think its the coordinator, some think its the players, some think its both.


Last week agains the cowgirls we saw basically vanilla vs vanilla. We saw what our defense does when physically matched up against a good offense. I am not saying that Smith should be our guy. I am saying that I don't think anyone can walk in and turn this into a top 10 defense. Weaver, Greenwood,Reeves and one of our DTs. You can have a guy that fits a particular scheme and utilize his strengths. For example, you can build a defense around speed, if you have a guy who is fast but not a "great" tackler, you can set him up in coverage a lot and rely on the others to tackle. But you cannot scheme for one guy who is slow and can't make a play on the ball, one guy who is slow and can't tackle, one guy who is too small in the middle of the line and one guy who is slow and prone to lose outside contain.

For example, say you decide to cover for Reeves by rushing the passer, well who do you rush? Do you rush Greenwood? He might get there by the time the guy Reeves was covering is being tackled by the safety. Do you rush your other LB and assign DR to cover 3/4 the field while greenwood sits outside of his has mark? Do you rush Reeves, who doesn't seem to like physical play? Again, this isn't so much in defense of Smith as it is a cry for faster/better players on defense. Even if they are young. Sit down, and try to come up with a blitz that you're satisfied with. Rush Demeco, and leave greenwood and diles to cover the middle of the field? I know we're not coordinators but we can still draw up basic plans. I'd like to see your ideas about how to play with our current starters veterans on the roster. I don't think its fair to include say Molden, since we've got a few reports on him but nobody has seen how he plays in an actual game situation. I don't have a problem pluging in Cochrain however, since we have actually seen him play.

There you go. That's your challange. I don't want "rush Demeco more" try to describe what you envision each player doing against a well balanced offense.

I think this will be fun.

Mike

Texan_Bill
08-26-2008, 11:34 AM
A) I would like to see our corners jam receivers a helluva lot more - rather than turn and run.

B) I would like to see Richard Smith be creative in the sense of not reacting to what an offense is doing, but rather have the offense try to figure out what the Texans "D" is doing. That means sending different people, whether Greenwood, Ryans, Diles, the kitchen sink - whatever. Bring people from all over.

C) More D-Line or interior stunts.


Just a few comments to get things started in this thread.... :specnatz:

Texanmike02
08-26-2008, 11:39 AM
A) I would like to see our corners jam receivers a helluva lot more - rather than turn and run.

B) I would like to see Richard Smith be creative in the sense of not reacting to what an offense is doing, but rather have the offense try to figure out what the Texans "D" is doing. That means sending different people, whether Greenwood, Ryans, Diles, the kitchen sink - whatever. Bring people from all over.

C) More D-Line or interior stunts.


Just a few comments to get things started in this thread.... :specnatz:


Can you give a specific instance. Draw up one. How do you account for each area of the field (unless you're willing to gamble).

noxiousdog
08-26-2008, 11:49 AM
I think he's got to take advantage of strengths more. It seems like on runs, Amobi is trying to tie up blockers instead of trying to shoot the gaps. He's too small for that. I'd also like to see him and TJ switch sides. Put the bigger guy away from Mario to enable them to both use their quickness for stunts instead of 'balancing' the line.

I dunno about the other end position. It may be the worst in the NFL and there's not a credible OLB to cover up for it either.


I think the 'blitz' idea is way overused, especially when you don't have safeties that can cover.

Thorn
08-26-2008, 11:50 AM
My God Texanmike, what are you trying to do? Make us back up our accusations with actual thoughts and facts? When did that start? :pirate:

gtexan02
08-26-2008, 11:51 AM
A) I would like to see our corners jam receivers a helluva lot more - rather than turn and run.

B) I would like to see Richard Smith be creative in the sense of not reacting to what an offense is doing, but rather have the offense try to figure out what the Texans "D" is doing. That means sending different people, whether Greenwood, Ryans, Diles, the kitchen sink - whatever. Bring people from all over.

C) More D-Line or interior stunts.


Just a few comments to get things started in this thread.... :specnatz:

A) Against Dallas I watched some of our rookie corners try and jam some of the bigger Dallas receivers. They did OK, but it left them totally exposed once the WR got around the jam.

B) I agree with this. However, I saw a lot of blitzes against Dallas. The thing I dont like about the Texans blitz defense is that its so predictable. Make the linebacker show blitz, then back off. Then the offense can't just point it out and have the running back pick it up

C) Our lineman have tried stunting, and it stunk. They don't have the range of motion required to be very good at stunting if I recall what someone else posted

76Texan
08-26-2008, 11:56 AM
A) I would like to see our corners jam receivers a helluva lot more - rather than turn and run.

B) I would like to see Richard Smith be creative in the sense of not reacting to what an offense is doing, but rather have the offense try to figure out what the Texans "D" is doing. That means sending different people, whether Greenwood, Ryans, Diles, the kitchen sink - whatever. Bring people from all over.

C) More D-Line or interior stunts.


Just a few comments to get things started in this thread.... :specnatz:
Rewatch the Titans game in week 7.
You will see that we were a whole more than vanilla, but...

When we bring a surprise blitz here and there on a 2nd or 3rd and long, we got result.
We got the LB blitz, the Safety blitz.
We stunted.
But as long we stayed disciplined it worked well for us.
We mix and match the call, and sometimes we got good pressure with only 3.
When we tried to be too agressive, we got burnt.

The Tacks tried to send more men, more often.
But the results they got were about as much from the regular base defense when they only rushed 4.

In the first half, it was a fumble after a catch, a drop after a catch, and a mis-snap that stopped us in the first half, not the Titans!

And they had a stronger D overall.
And they were more agressive.

ccdude730
08-26-2008, 12:00 PM
i know one thing i DONT want to see, and that is weaver dropping back into coverage. seriously.


as for everyone else, i really cant say because i dont know what their real strengths are. i can say "mario needs to attack, attack, attack" but that would take away his ability to read the run, especially on draws, reverses, and screens. i just want to see our guys go out there and play to their strengths. IMO mario's strength is that he is an incredible athlete therefore making him versitile, and that is why we see him lining up at both DE positions. and if dunta was back in there, we know what to expect because we know his strengths: being physical and doing a great job in man coverage.

if we have players who take bad angles constantly (greenwood comes to mind) dont just let them sit there covering the flats.

if you have a safety who bites on play action and pump fakes too much, change the package you are in, change the personnel, change the assignments, CHANGE SOMETHING.

bottom line: the coaches need to focus on the players strengths instead of forcing them into a particular role.

:texflag:

DBCooper
08-26-2008, 12:01 PM
The problem with Richard Smith is the one of identity.

More than a few posters here question what he wants as an identity.

Think about Indy, swarm the ball.

Steelers, with their 3-4, LB from anywhere, safety blitzes.

New England.


We have no identity. Are we drafting players to fit our philosophy, or are we molding the defense around the players we have? What does Smith want?
Is he going after the players that fit his hidden philosophy?

More questions than answers.

Ole Miss Texan
08-26-2008, 12:03 PM
I havn't been one calling for Richard Smith's head but I would LOVE to see a more aggressive defense. I'm not going to say keep or get rid of smith b/c I really don't know much about what he has or hasn't done. I think we'll all agree our defense can use more of an identity.. but I also think we still lack a lot of talent. We are SO close though.

For those wanting to get rid of Smith as DC who would you replace him with? Someone already here like Frank Bush... or another defensive assistant? Any guys out in the NFL you'd like to see come to take over the job? I'm not trying to call anyone out... but am genuinly interested in what options may be available.

Defensive End is becoming my main priority going into the draft next year (Julius Peppers is a FA but who really thinks he leaves Carolina!?). There should be some very good DE's coming out.

The minute our DL can stop the run AND rush the passer to minute our whole Defense looks completely different, regardless of what scheme we're trying to use. The linebackers will be freed up to cover the middle of the field, spying on the QB, making those tackles against the TE's and RB's, and dropping back in coverage to help our young secondary. Also, the best thing for a secondary is a great DL. Bennett, Molden, Dunta should hopefully all be playing well and healthy by the time this happens, and it will make their job so much easier.

Texanmike02
08-26-2008, 12:05 PM
I think the 'blitz' idea is way overused, especially when you don't have safeties that can cover.

That's the kind of observation I wanted to come out of this discussion. I'm not a big Smith fan and he may very well be part of the problem. But so to, is the lack of talent on our defense.

Mike

Polo
08-26-2008, 12:05 PM
I don't like AW dropping into coverage either...

BUT he did have an INT doing that last yr...

Ole Miss Texan
08-26-2008, 12:06 PM
The problem with Richard Smith is the one of identity.

More than a few posters here question what he wants as an identity.

Think about Indy, swarm the ball.


Great points. This offseason and early preseason, I've really felt like our Defense had been swarming the ball. I think the D has greatly improved, but still has a ways to go. The D looks completely different than in the past, but that's solely due to the players we've gotten. I think they are much more athletic, quicker, and really do swarm the ballcarrier.

I hope this is an identity that is being formed and we find out this season. We've go to create more turnovers and having more guys around the ball is only going to help create/recover.

Texanmike02
08-26-2008, 12:07 PM
I havn't been one calling for Richard Smith's head but I would LOVE to see a more aggressive defense.

How? That's what I'm getting at. How do you get more aggressive at this point with these players?

Mike

gtexan02
08-26-2008, 12:08 PM
I really don't think the D coordinator creates the identify of the defense. i think its a team mentality thing. We are giving Richard Smith way too much credit.

If our guys play soft, its because they are soft. If they play tough, its because they are tough. A lot is attitude, and like speed, it can only be changed so much.

We don't have a "tough" in your face team. Yet were trying to play "tough" in your face defense.

A great coach can teach technique and get people to play more aggressively, but a guy like Demeco is never going to hit like a guy like Ray Lewis. They may be equally effective in getting to the ball carrier, but they won't bring the same level of physical play. Both are stellar, All-Pros in the primes, but they have different styles

DBCooper
08-26-2008, 12:11 PM
I really don't think the D coordinator creates the identify of the defense. i think its a team mentality thing. We are giving Richard Smith way too much credit.

If our guys play soft, its because they are soft. If they play tough, its because they are tough. A lot is attitude, and like speed, it can only be changed so much.

We don't have a "tough" in your face team. Yet were trying to play "tough" in your face defense.

A great coach can teach technique and get people to play more aggressively, but a guy like Demeco is never going to hit like a guy like Ray Lewis. They may be equally effective in getting to the ball carrier, but they won't bring the same level of physical play. Both are stellar, All-Pros in the primes, but they have different styles


I don't know.

Let's hire Belichick as the DC and see what he can get out of them.

Texan_Bill
08-26-2008, 12:15 PM
Can you give a specific instance. Draw up one. How do you account for each area of the field (unless you're willing to gamble).

That's kinda the point. When you're not very talented you need to gamble. You need to mix things up. You need to keep people (offenses) guessing.

But, for the sake of cotinuing this dialogue:

Situation: 3rd and 8 yards at the opponents own 40 yard line (Obvious passing down)

Bring both corners up. The weakside corner comes directly after the QB. The Will LB drops over into the flat and the FS (who cheats towards the LOS as the ball is about to be snapped) covers the reciever on the weakside once beyond the Will LB. That creates a 5 man rush.

Next similar situation, bring the SLB instead. Watch your own tendancies so that they have a hard time figuring out where it will come from next.

dalemurphy
08-26-2008, 12:17 PM
How? That's what I'm getting at. How do you get more aggressive at this point with these players?

Mike


You put them in a position to make plays. For instance, the previous regime would often use Dunta in the slot, which gave him more opportunities to blitz. Last year, we left Dunta on the outside and had Fletcher in the slot and Fletcher was not nearly as physical.

Travis Johnson played the run much better than Okoye last year and yet TJ was often on the bench on short yardage while Okoye was in the game.

Another way to add to the aggressiveness is to put the DL on a 7 or 8 man rotation, giving each of them significant breathers. This allows them to go harder the plays they are in- something the Cowboys of the 90s did very effectively.

Showing blitz more often and then falling back into coverage so that we aren't so telegraphed when we do blitz.

Putting as many pass rushers on the field as possible on passing downs. For instance, a front 7 of Mario, Okoye, Cochran, Kalu... with Colvin, Thompson, and Demeco lined up at LB.

Polo
08-26-2008, 12:27 PM
Can't ask players to do things they aren't capable of doing.

Lots of the suggestions sound good though....

Greenwood struggles in coverage enough as it is...

Now you want to give him even more to think about ?

HoustonFrog
08-26-2008, 12:32 PM
My problem is that I took a time machine to the same time last year when people were talking about how we can't blitz because we don't have the talent and how Richard Smith is the man if he had people.....nevermind, that is just McClain, protector of Dick Smith.

As for the question, I agree with TB above. IF you are talent deficient, the only way to make up for it is to mix it up. Teams will eat you alive playing safe. I'd rather get burned a few times but lay some licks on the QB and have it in his head then sit back and hope someone gets near him. You can disguise blitzes and rotate safeties. The point is to get the QB to release it quick. These are best utilized on some 3rd and longs. JMO

HOU-TEX
08-26-2008, 12:32 PM
I don't like AW dropping into coverage either...

BUT he did have an INT doing that last yr...

It was TJ that had the INT this past season. He also batted 5 balls down which is by far the best of the DT's.

I think Weaver had a pick in 06.

dalemurphy
08-26-2008, 12:33 PM
Can't ask players to do things they aren't capable of doing.

Lots of the suggestions sound good though....

Greenwood struggles in coverage enough as it is...

Now you want to give him even more to think about ?


Well, if Greenwood is poor in coverage, can't make plays in the backfield, and isn't a great tackler perhaps someone else should be playing on the weak side- how about Bentley? or Diles with Thompson or Bentley on the strong side, or Coley (who's looked great), and get Adibi in there situationally.

dalemurphy
08-26-2008, 12:37 PM
My problem is that I took a time machine to the same time last year when people were talking about how we can't blitz because we don't have the talent and how Richard Smith is the man if he had people.....nevermind, that is just McClain, protector of Dick Smith.

As for the question, I agree with TB above. IF you are talent deficient, the only way to make up for it is to mix it up. Teams will eat you alive playing safe. I'd rather get burned a few times but lay some licks on the QB and have it in his head then sit back and hope someone gets near him. You can disguise blitzes and rotate safeties. The point is to get the QB to release it quick. These are best utilized on some 3rd and longs. JMO


This is a year to take risks. We can afford to give up points if we create some turnovers. With our offense this year, the defense should be about getting the offense the ball as many times as possible in the 60 minutes... Very much like to Indy defense has worked for them. Agressive, attacking, playmaking despite a number of weaknesses and holes.

If we give up 24 points but create 2-3 turnovers and our offense gets 10-11 posessions and some in very good field position, I feel great about them scoring 30 points.

Polo
08-26-2008, 12:37 PM
It was TJ that had the INT this past season. He also batted 5 balls down which is by far the best of the DT's.

I think Weaver had a pick in 06.

You are correct...

HOU-TEX
08-26-2008, 12:39 PM
You are correct...

Eh, I just wanted to give some props to TJ, considering he's ragged on quite often. He might not be worth the pick yet, but he's the best DT we've put on the field lately.

With that said, they've all looked like poo poo this pre-season. :cool:

Polo
08-26-2008, 12:43 PM
If we give up 24 points but create 2-3 turnovers and our offense gets 10-11 posessions and some in very good field position, I feel great about them scoring 30 points.

If that isn't a Madden style game plan I don't know what is...

It's like people are starting to overestimate our offense because of the poor defensive play...

I love Matt Schaub....

But I'm not banking on him scoring 30 points per contest...

dalemurphy
08-26-2008, 12:49 PM
If that isn't a Madden style game plan I don't know what is...

It's like people are starting to overestimate our offense because of the poor defensive play...

I love Matt Schaub....

But I'm not banking on him scoring 30 points per contest...


Our offense last season had the 2nd most plays over 25 yards in the AFC. That was with Ron Dayne and Darius Walker running the ball and AJ out 1/2 the season and Schaub's first season starting and he missed half the season... This year we have Gibbs which makes it very likely that our running game will dramatically improve, AJ is back, Schaub looks great. Guys like KWalter, Daniels, Winston are just rounding into the players they can be.. We look like a very good offense this year.

dalemurphy
08-26-2008, 12:51 PM
If that isn't a Madden style game plan I don't know what is...

It's like people are starting to overestimate our offense because of the poor defensive play...

I love Matt Schaub....

But I'm not banking on him scoring 30 points per contest...

by the way, I haven't played Madden since about 1993. What I suggest is modeled after real football like what they play in Indianapolis

Polo
08-26-2008, 12:51 PM
Our offense last season had the 2nd most plays over 25 yards in the AFC. That was with Ron Dayne and Darius Walker running the ball and AJ out 1/2 the season and Schaub's first season starting and he missed half the season... This year we have Gibbs which makes it very likely that our running game will dramatically improve, AJ is back, Schaub looks great. Guys like KWalter, Daniels, Winston are just rounding into the players they can be.. We look like a very good offense this year.

I love our offense too...

I'm just not going to bank on them scoring 30 a contest...

beerlover
08-26-2008, 12:52 PM
Richard needs to cut Okoye loose. If the Texans are to improve the pass rush with the personel they have he has to be more creative & give assignments based more upon results. This is one area you can experiment with in pre-season giving players opportunities to assume other roles/assingments. so far Amobi looks bogged down in the middle abused by much bigger offensive linemen used to leaning & holding space eaters to a stalemate, its very difficult for him to get into space where he is most effective.

Travis Johnson, Anthony Maddox & Weaver rotate as space eating tackles with Okam & Deljuan Robinson for depth. having Amobi work inside on occassion is fine but to just plug him in & leave him there without some "fun time" chasing QB's is just unfathomable to me.

When in the Mario/Amobi book end's formation its going to be a blitz package, make no mistake about it with aggressive play there is a high risk/reward element but I truely believe Amobi is a pass rusher @ heart & could be dominant paired with Mario in more spreadout formation. Teams cannot double team both ends unless they use duel TE formations or backs in for protection. Richard could experiment to see which one is better sutied for RDE vs. LDE but this is something that should have been expeimented with in training camp & pre-season, its probably too late now, just one example that I would like to see Smith try to help with the lack of QB pressure/aggressive play :texflag:

HoustonFrog
08-26-2008, 12:52 PM
This is a year to take risks. We can afford to give up points if we create some turnovers. With our offense this year, the defense should be about getting the offense the ball as many times as possible in the 60 minutes... Very much like to Indy defense has worked for them. Agressive, attacking, playmaking despite a number of weaknesses and holes.

If we give up 24 points but create 2-3 turnovers and our offense gets 10-11 posessions and some in very good field position, I feel great about them scoring 30 points.

Where I don't want to have to score 30 a game you are right as to the concept I was getting at....I'll give up a TD every other game or a big play as long as we are laying some hits on the QB and making him rush here and there. The payoff is making the QB think it can happen instead of letting him get comfortible in the pocket.

dalemurphy
08-26-2008, 12:52 PM
I love our offense too...

I'm just not going to bank on them scoring 30 a contest...

We may if our defense successful gets them the ball enough. That means playing agressively and getting turnovers, even at the risk of giving up big plays- and, actually trying to avoid 9 minute drives that hopefully end in 3 points instead of 7.

Polo
08-26-2008, 12:53 PM
by the way, I haven't played Madden since about 1993. What I suggest is modeled after real football like what they play in Indianapolis

If only we had Peyton Manning and Joseph Addai...

Harrison, Wayne, Clark, Gonzalez, Utecht, their depth and O-line don't hurt either...

Texan_Bill
08-26-2008, 12:54 PM
My problem is that I took a time machine to the same time last year when people were talking about how we can't blitz because we don't have the talent and how Richard Smith is the man if he had people.....nevermind, that is just McClain, protector of Dick Smith.

As for the question, I agree with TB above. IF you are talent deficient, the only way to make up for it is to mix it up. Teams will eat you alive playing safe. I'd rather get burned a few times but lay some licks on the QB and have it in his head then sit back and hope someone gets near him. You can disguise blitzes and rotate safeties. The point is to get the QB to release it quick. These are best utilized on some 3rd and longs. JMO

Exactly... They can call it 'smoke and mirrors' if they want, but get creative.

Polo
08-26-2008, 12:55 PM
We may if our defense successful gets them the ball enough. That means playing agressively and getting turnovers, even at the risk of giving up big plays- and, actually trying to avoid 9 minute drives that hopefully end in 3 points instead of 7.

Or we could be super agressive and opposing teams could just score faster and rack up more points...

Jaque Reeves is like an instant Hot route...

Ole Miss Texan
08-26-2008, 12:56 PM
I think some of it is kind of on Kubiak, and I don't necessarily mean that as a bad thing. I remember in several interviews with Kubiak where he's said that the team has to get a point to where if it's 3rd and 1 or we're on the goal line... we want to run the ball up the middle... we've got to be able to pick that up. Not by any tricks but because we execute better. You've got to be able to beat the other team even if they know what play you're going to run... if you're going to be a good football team.

I think our Defense is nothing too fancy, by design. Whether that's intentional or b/c of lack of talent, I don't know. But what they're going for is trying not to get beat deep on a big play. Keep the game manageable, no quick scores, actually allow the team to catch the ball short but stop them before the 1st down marker.

I think many of us would rather not have the mentality of "don't get beat" but rather have the mentality of "get after the other team". I guess more of a proactive approach than a reactive/safe defense. I'm a big believer that your attitude and mental thought have a HUGE impact on what your actually able to do. A person with a better mindset and focus can often win (at whatever sport) even if they have lesser talents. If you're playing golf and you keep worrying about the giant lake on the right side of your tee shot... chances are you're either going to hit it in the water or hook the ball way left to avoid it (kind of a mentality of "don't get beat"... it seems like your scared). But if you focus on the middle of the fairway and where you need to hit the ball... you actually have a much greater chance of succeeding ("beat the other team" or "beat the course" is more aggressive and something you can actually control.) Some similarity but obviously not exactly the same.

Seems our strategy is to run the ball, complete short passes, move the chains, hold onto the ball. And then on D, we keep the team from scoring quickly and hope our offense controls the clock and scores more points. Not the most exciting way to win games...

dalemurphy
08-26-2008, 12:58 PM
If only we had Peyton Manning and Joseph Addai...

Harrison, Wayne, Clark, Gonzalez, Utecht, their depth and O-line don't hurt either...

Our OLine depth is better than theirs this year. We have 4 quality tackles, not counting Salaam. They are in some trouble with the OL actually.

In regards to the rest of that list, I'd match our Wrs up with theirs any day, same with our TE... While Schaub isn't Peyton, I think he could be among the best Qbs in the league, mentioned with guys like Brees and Palmer and Hasselbeck.

And, I think our running game will be as effective as theirs. Their OL is going to struggle- Jeff Saturday is out for the first 5 or 6 games, they lost depth at Guard, and I'm not sold on their LT. Addai is a good back but I don't think he's special. He's just been in a special situation. The combination of Taylor, Slaton, and whoever else we use this year will put us in the top half of the league in rushing and I think we'll throw for 4000 yards.

Polo
08-26-2008, 12:58 PM
I think many of us would rather not have the mentality of "don't get beat" but rather have the mentality of "get after the other team".

That's great if you have the guns to do it...

Don't know about you guys but if I got a knife and I'm in a pistol fight--I'm probably not going to put my head down and charge...

Pretty noble and valiant...but you'd end up dead...

Texan_Bill
08-26-2008, 01:02 PM
Don't know about you guys but if I got a knife and I'm in a pistol fight--I'm probably not going to put my head down and charge...


At least throw the knife.

dalemurphy
08-26-2008, 01:04 PM
Or we could be super agressive and opposing teams could just score faster and rack up more points...

Jaque Reeves is like an instant Hot route...


Reeves won't see the field much if he continues to play the way he has. Remember, even before Dunta returns, we have Molden, Faggins, Roberson, and Fletcher (who I predict will start week one) all there.

Polo
08-26-2008, 01:04 PM
At least throw the knife.

LOL....true...

The Pencil Neck
08-26-2008, 01:17 PM
It seems to me that several of the things people are suggesting we do (blitz, stunt, rotate the dline, etc.) are things that we already do.

Here's my point...

WHY don't we have talent on the defense? WHY is our defense untalented and incapable of playing to a higher level? This defense, whatever it is and however it's composed, is the defense that Richard Smith has built. He chose the style of players he wanted.

Since this regime has been in place, what Defensive players have we drafted:

Mario Williams, Demeco Ryans, Amobi Okoye, Fred Bennett, Brandon Harrison, Zach Diles, Antwaun Molden, Xavier Adibi, Frank Okam, Dominique Barber.

What defensive players have we picked up in free agency:

Will Demps, Jacques Reeves, Rosevelt Colvin, Weaver, Zgonina, Maddux, Kalu, Chaun Thompson, Kevin Bentley...

If we needed more space eaters in the middle, they were (/are) out there and we could have picked them up.

Personally, I don't buy into the "we don't have talent". I don't buy into "it's vanilla vs. vanilla and our vanilla is worse." We have enough talent on this team to play.

We should be blitzing more to stop the run. Our players don't seem to be making pre-snap reads and putting themselves into the right positions to make plays; they appear to be in a read and react mode where they make their reads only after the ball is snapped and so they always seem to be a few steps behind. Our DLinemen always look like they're thinking too much. We drop too many of our DLinemen into zones (and that's not just Weaver, if you look you can find Cochran, Okoye, and Johnson in zones.) Opponents always seem to be able to find the seams in our zones. Our DB's never seem to look back for the ball but they're frequently right in the receiver's pocket. Our safeties never seem to give support in the passing game.

To me, that all screams problems with the defenses that we're running and what we're asking our players to do, not issues with the players themselves.

Hervoyel
08-26-2008, 01:17 PM
I love our offense too...

I'm just not going to bank on them scoring 30 a contest...

You should. They'll have a much easier time scoring 30 plus a game than they will keeping anybody under 21 points. We averaged just under 24 points per game last year and I think we'll be a couple of field goals or one more touchdown better this year than last year "on average".

Polo
08-26-2008, 01:25 PM
You should. They'll have a much easier time scoring 30 plus a game than they will keeping anybody under 21 points. We averaged just under 24 points per game last year and I think we'll be a couple of field goals or one more touchdown better this year than last year "on average".

No...I shouldn't....

"On average" isn't the same thing as "per contest"....

Expecting them to score atleast 30 points per game is not the same as averaging 30 points over the course of the season.

We could have one weekend where all the stars align for our offensel and they have a monster offensive game; that'd raise the "average".

Texanmike02
08-26-2008, 01:35 PM
Since this regime has been in place, what Defensive players have we drafted:

Mario Williams, Demeco Ryans, Amobi Okoye, Fred Bennett, Brandon Harrison, Zach Diles, Antwaun Molden, Xavier Adibi, Frank Okam, Dominique Barber.


Williams, Ryans, Bennett and Diles are all ready to play. Okoye, IMHO is playing because we don't have someone who is such an upgrade that it justifies losing the opportunity to get him experience. But as you're pointing out, the playmakers on your defense all come from players added under this regime. In fact, your best players were drafted in the last 3 years. Its a young defense we're building around. (I feel another "reason's why this isn't the year either thread bubbling up).

The rest on that list, well they are not ready yet.


What defensive players have we picked up in free agency:

Will Demps, Jacques Reeves, Rosevelt Colvin, Weaver, Zgonina, Maddux, Kalu, Chaun Thompson, Kevin Bentley...


Who have they replaced? We know that Demps is the best S we've had on this team. Kalu was brought in for a part time role. But look at our offense. How is it turning into what it is? We are grooming players to play in this defense. I think last year I said this year we were going to try to compete for the playoffs, be in the hunt, with our eyes on next year. We see what happens when you bring in FAs. Look at Weaver's contract. Also take into account that we're basically replacing Daunta, because there is no guarantee that we're ever going to see the same player we once had.

If we needed more space eaters in the middle, they were (/are) out there and we could have picked them up.

Personally, I don't buy into the "we don't have talent". I don't buy into "it's vanilla vs. vanilla and our vanilla is worse." We have enough talent on this team to play.

I say that a lot and what I mean, is that in the preseason, we see a lot of vanilla play. Its mostly about sizing up the guys on the field. Seeing what they can do. you don't want to expose your deception at this point. That means that you're seeing what your guys can do, heads up, honest abe man on man type situation. The verdict that I have come up with is that we don't have enough talent to match up with very many teams that way. I'm not suggesting that we'll see vanilla during the season. I'm not suggesting that I'd like us to stay in a vanilla defense. As you get into the season and teams disguise things, the coordinator figures into the equation more heavily. The verdict right now though, is that we simply lack the talent. I'm of the opinion that its not a scheme problem. Sure you can be agressive, but the last thing you want to do is take a young offense who is just starting to be productive and tell them "OK guys, the plan from now on, is be agressive on defense and force turnovers, oh Matt by the way, we need you to start hanging 30 on other teams week in and week out". Ever wonder why Manning seemed to struggle in big games until a few years ago? Its because he "and he's admited as such" knew his team was going to give up 27+ points when they faced a decent offense every time. Now his defense can hold teams and he doesn't feel he as to do too much. Its amazing (and I do watch Indy every chance I get) how much he utilizes the 5/6 yard drop off and his outlets now.


We should be blitzing more to stop the run. Our players don't seem to be making pre-snap reads and putting themselves into the right positions to make plays; they appear to be in a read and react mode where they make their reads only after the ball is snapped and so they always seem to be a few steps behind. Our DLinemen always look like they're thinking too much. We drop too many of our DLinemen into zones (and that's not just Weaver, if you look you can find Cochran, Okoye, and Johnson in zones.) Opponents always seem to be able to find the seams in our zones. Our DB's never seem to look back for the ball but they're frequently right in the receiver's pocket. Our safeties never seem to give support in the passing game.

To me, that all screams problems with the defenses that we're running and what we're asking our players to do, not issues with the players themselves.

Can you give me specific examples of how we run blitz? I'm just curious, because its one thing to say "we should run blitz". Ok, I may agree with you, but I want to know how you plan on accomplishing it. Where are you willing to sacrifice in order to do that. Who are you leaving responsible to cover the areas you're vacating. That's what I was origionally trying to ask when I started this post. Blitz Demeco? that takes your best tackler and puts him beyond the line of scrimmage, what if its a PA pass or a boot leg? Do you only do it in 3rd and short? I just want to get an idea of how you plan on run blitzing.

Mike

(did you notice it should be easier to quote now?)

Goldensilence
08-26-2008, 01:41 PM
First define what we're trying to do on the defensive line other then uhhh trying to get pressure on the QB. Aside from drafting Okam this year we have smaller DT's. Instead of putting them in a position to fail trying to tie up blockers in the run game. Have them try to shot gaps to rush the passer and clog up the running lanes that way. Giants last year didn't have huge DTs but they did just that and it was very effective. Put players in position to succeed using their strengths instead of hoping their talent overcomes your ineptitude or indecisiveness.

LB's what are we trying to do there? In a great world we'd have 3 Demeco Ryans back there. Learning to make good angles and gang tackling. IF Greenwood can't handle a TE over the middle then give him help and not put him out on an island by himself and pray he makes a play. We've got a lot more talent and speed this year at LB. If Greenwood ain't cutting it don't be afraid to plant him on the bench. I'd rather get burned with a young guy out there learning on the fly then an overpaid vet who should by now be able to handle it.

Defensive backfield. Don't give opposing OC the mismatches they want like Faggins on Steve Smith last year just because you want to try and keep with your Right and left side field assignments. Don't bring in zone guys and try to play man coverage with them.

The biggest problem I have is overall and I know it keeps getting repeated what is this defense trying to accomplish? Three years in and either the players haven't bought into your system because they are confused or you don't trust their talent level doesn't bode well either way. First year in Smith should've bought a guy or two. Second year in we should've seen a bit more and another player or two brought in to match what he wants.At this point begining into the third year AT LEAST we should see a crystalized view of what a Richard Smith defense looks like with the players on board with it. I don't see anything to even SLIGHTLY suggest this.

Reminds me of the mess we had on the offense between Palmer, Pendry, Capers and people saying there wasn't enough talent on the offensive side of the ball for David Carr.

Polo
08-26-2008, 01:47 PM
The whole defensive staff needs to go.

Lets bring in Deon Sanders to coach DB's, Warren Sapp for the D-line, and Brian Urlacher for the LB's...

Maybe they'd be able to get more out of our guys...

Goldensilence
08-26-2008, 01:57 PM
The whole defensive staff needs to go.

Lets bring in Deon Sanders to coach DB's, Warren Sapp for the D-line, and Brian Urlacher for the LB's...

Maybe they'd be able to get more out of our guys...

No thanks and that's just being tongue in cheek to questions you aren't answering other then an ironic vanilla response in we need more talent on the defense.

I'll quote myself.

Ron Rivera is a guy that comes to mind. I'm not sure Lane Kiffin is still with the Raiders next year and if Al Davis decides his staff needs a complete overhaul We better be on the phone with Rob Ryan and his mullet.Jerry Grey is now a secondary coach for Washington. Mike Singletary is a guy i would make an argument for.

The Pencil Neck
08-26-2008, 02:02 PM
Williams, Ryans, Bennett and Diles are all ready to play. Okoye, IMHO is playing because we don't have someone who is such an upgrade that it justifies losing the opportunity to get him experience. But as you're pointing out, the playmakers on your defense all come from players added under this regime. In fact, your best players were drafted in the last 3 years. Its a young defense we're building around. (I feel another "reason's why this isn't the year either thread bubbling up).

The rest on that list, well they are not ready yet.

Who have they replaced? We know that Demps is the best S we've had on this team. Kalu was brought in for a part time role. But look at our offense. How is it turning into what it is? We are grooming players to play in this defense. I think last year I said this year we were going to try to compete for the playoffs, be in the hunt, with our eyes on next year. We see what happens when you bring in FAs. Look at Weaver's contract. Also take into account that we're basically replacing Daunta, because there is no guarantee that we're ever going to see the same player we once had.


I was trying to show a couple of different things here. One is that we've got some very talented players on this team and that we've had quite a bit of turnover. Going into our 3rd year, we should have the players for Richard Smith's defense. A coach can't expect to get 5-10 years to build up the players he needs to be able to field a good defense. This is it.


I say that a lot and what I mean, is that in the preseason, we see a lot of vanilla play. Its mostly about sizing up the guys on the field. Seeing what they can do. you don't want to expose your deception at this point. That means that you're seeing what your guys can do, heads up, honest abe man on man type situation. The verdict that I have come up with is that we don't have enough talent to match up with very many teams that way. I'm not suggesting that we'll see vanilla during the season. I'm not suggesting that I'd like us to stay in a vanilla defense. As you get into the season and teams disguise things, the coordinator figures into the equation more heavily. The verdict right now though, is that we simply lack the talent. I'm of the opinion that its not a scheme problem.


To me, it looks like the scheme... or the lack of one.



Can you give me specific examples of how we run blitz? I'm just curious, because its one thing to say "we should run blitz". Ok, I may agree with you, but I want to know how you plan on accomplishing it. Where are you willing to sacrifice in order to do that. Who are you leaving responsible to cover the areas you're vacating. That's what I was origionally trying to ask when I started this post. Blitz Demeco? that takes your best tackler and puts him beyond the line of scrimmage, what if its a PA pass or a boot leg? Do you only do it in 3rd and short? I just want to get an idea of how you plan on run blitzing.


Right now, we usually play our linebackers fairly off the line of scrimmage. When you look at some other defenses, when a linebacker sees that there's going to be a run to his side, he sometimes blitzes the hole. In the last Giant's preseason game, Danny Clark made one of those pre-snap reads, blitzed the hole, and stuffed the running back. I don't think Danny did that for us all of last season. Maybe once. Here's a guy that was on our team and is making plays that he didn't make when he was with us. His talent level hasn't changed. His intelligence and ability to read a play hasn't changed. But his responsibilities and what he's being asked to do has changed.

Right now, it looks to me like many times our dt's are being asked to just hold position in the middle of the line while our de's take wide rushes. That creates huge holes between the tackle and end that are easy to run through and hard for the linebackers to plug. Our linebackers for the most part seem to be playing far off the line of scrimmage and then read/reacting to the run so they get there late. And because they're so far off the line, they're not in a position to blitz the run if they do read the run. Frequently, it seems like Demeco is being pulled in two because he's the ONE LB that seems to blitz the run but he's also frequently got deep middle zone responsibilities in the pass game. That's a lot to ask.

If we're going to be aggressive on the dline, we need to start using Amobi as a penetrator. He needs to be used as a dt that shoots gaps.

Now, as you said, maybe this is a case of us just not using deception in the preseason to hide our blitzes. But what I'm seeing in preseason so far is exactly what our defense was doing last year during the regular season.



(did you notice it should be easier to quote now?)
:)

I noticed and thanks. I still want to get back to the No Spin thread but just haven't had time.

Hervoyel
08-26-2008, 02:34 PM
It seems to me that several of the things people are suggesting we do (blitz, stunt, rotate the dline, etc.) are things that we already do.

Here's my point...

WHY don't we have talent on the defense? WHY is our defense untalented and incapable of playing to a higher level? This defense, whatever it is and however it's composed, is the defense that Richard Smith has built. He chose the style of players he wanted.

Since this regime has been in place, what Defensive players have we drafted:

Mario Williams, Demeco Ryans, Amobi Okoye, Fred Bennett, Brandon Harrison, Zach Diles, Antwaun Molden, Xavier Adibi, Frank Okam, Dominique Barber.

What defensive players have we picked up in free agency:

Will Demps, Jacques Reeves, Rosevelt Colvin, Weaver, Zgonina, Maddux, Kalu, Chaun Thompson, Kevin Bentley...

If we needed more space eaters in the middle, they were (/are) out there and we could have picked them up.

Personally, I don't buy into the "we don't have talent". I don't buy into "it's vanilla vs. vanilla and our vanilla is worse." We have enough talent on this team to play.

We should be blitzing more to stop the run. Our players don't seem to be making pre-snap reads and putting themselves into the right positions to make plays; they appear to be in a read and react mode where they make their reads only after the ball is snapped and so they always seem to be a few steps behind. Our DLinemen always look like they're thinking too much. We drop too many of our DLinemen into zones (and that's not just Weaver, if you look you can find Cochran, Okoye, and Johnson in zones.) Opponents always seem to be able to find the seams in our zones. Our DB's never seem to look back for the ball but they're frequently right in the receiver's pocket. Our safeties never seem to give support in the passing game.

To me, that all screams problems with the defenses that we're running and what we're asking our players to do, not issues with the players themselves.

I think I'd have a hard time saying it any better than this. This isn't the defense that these coaches inherited. This is the one they built. We've got TJ on the line holding over, Greenwood in the LB corp still around, and our starting secondary is almost all about THIS regime with the loss of Dunta. When he comes back he and CC Brown will be the two holdover from before Smith arrived. 4 guys out of 11 and presumably the best 4 of the existing players are all the remain from Cass & Capers.

Yes we have Dunta out and that's no small thing. His loss is significant but other teams lose a starting corner and keep playing their defense. We lose one and we can't stop anybody. Hell, we weren't stopping anybody before he went out.

What are they doing? What is their "scheme"? What kind of defense are they? Richard Smith says "Aggressive" and that's about all he says but they don't play very aggressively. In fact most of the time they play like they're desperate to cover up some wide gaping hole.

I would have liked to seen the Texans bring in a proven coach who has been a successful defensive coordinator in the NFL and who has.....wait a second, didn't Ray Rhodes join our staff over the off-season? If I'm not mistaken haven't his defenses in Green Bay, San Francisco, and Seattle (when he was the DC) all averaged around 13th in the NFL in points and yards allowed? Dick here is coaching a unit that hovers right at 24th in both those catagories regardless of who is hurt or playing.

In fact the Texans have been around 24th-25th in the league for almost their entire existence and it's very understandable why they have been there. They have rarely had quality players or coaching. We are going into this regimes 3rd season however and they've made wholesale changes to the players they were saddled with when they got here. Why don't we see a defense playing like a tight-knit unit where each player understands what he's supposed to do? We got a coach who has been on the job for three training camps and players who have been drafted for his "system".

Where's the beef?

As for individual scapegoa...err "players" I am sure that you're on to something as to the quality of our starters. I think it's less of a factor than our "no-identity defense" (call em' the NID....."Heeeeere comes the N.I.D." think Will Smith and Men In Black) brought to us by our aggressive DC.

If Reeves is truly the best option we have on his side then I play him but I want to know how come Rick Smith gets to keep being called a personnel miracle worker if this was the best he could do to shore up the spot. Based on what we've seen so far he's been a complete waste of money and we could have rolled Faggins out there and had the same thing to show for it.

I cannot imagine that Weaver is the best we can do at his spot. I keep seeing that Okoye isn't the big run stuffer we need in the middle and if that's the case then move him out to LDE and lets see him try to work as an end. Plunk Okam down next to TJ and see what happens. Maybe it doesn't work but I'd look at it.


Ultimately I think that if our defense continues to fail to get the job done (and we haven't seen any sign that they'll be better than 24th again this year) then I think Rhodes is here to step up when Richard Smith steps down. There's just been too big an investment in that side of the ball to be getting the kind of results we see from them. I don't have a doubt in my mind that Kubiak and Smith know this. Rick Smith also knows that draft picks and free agents that don't pan out for no apparent reason reflect poorly on him (fair or not) and so if he feels like Richard Smith isn't getting it done then I don't think he'll hesitate to speak with Kubiak about letting Rhodes step forward and give it a try.

Ole Miss Texan
08-26-2008, 02:45 PM
There's been some great posts I agree with on both sides of the 'thoughts'. I think we actually do have some great talent on the team (by all the great draft picks) but they are all so young. It's not to say they aren't good, but they havn't matured yet into professional athletes.

Demeco is an exception. Mario came around midway through last season. Bennett is really on his way but needs more time. Aside from that, guys like Amobi, Okam, Diles, Adibi really need to develop. I think the talent is there, so to speak, but for upside- and it's something I'm so excited about. Because once these guys start maturing into PROS, we're going to have an incredible defense regardless of scheme, imo.

noxiousdog
08-26-2008, 02:49 PM
Reeves is silly to hold as a scapegoat. He's a band-aid until Dunta comes back. It would be like complaining about Andre Davis.

That's my biggest complaint about the message boards/talk radio this pre-season.

barrett
08-26-2008, 03:08 PM
This is a wonderful read guys. One of the more thoughtful threads on here. Alot of brain power being used. It's healthy and good to see. I'm glad to see so many "ideas" of how to run the Defense. I'm impressed that we have so many potential coordinators on this forum. When they do fire Richard Smith i expect them to come ask us to line up for tryouts.

Look, I know alot of you are frustrated with the way the defense plays but I just don't have much faith in any of you as coordinators. I'm curious what the combined experience level is of the posters on this thread as it pertains to NFL defensive schemes. I know alot of you watch alot of games on TV. alot of you watch alot of the games in person. alot of you attend the practices that are open to the public. that means you by the way. "the public", the average joe working man, the fan, the spectator, speculator, the unqualified opinionated know it all drunken bum, dumb dumb.

I just don't see how without attending ALL the practices, sitting in the meetings, watching the team films (not the single angle zoomed in version provided to you by "your staff" over at CBS) that you can possibly have any remotely reasonable insight into what is best for the Defense.

What you have is knowledge. More than the average fan. I know we all pride ourselves on knowing more about this team than anyone. Even our fellow Texans fan friends that don't know who Jesse Nading is or that Tim Carter was cut along with Mark Fenton or Scott Jackson was placed on IR today. I learn as much as I can from watching my friends TIVO too, but that doesn't make me a defensive coordinator.

I digress...

Go Texans.

Lucky
08-26-2008, 03:11 PM
I keep seeing that Okoye isn't the big run stuffer we need in the middle and if that's the case then move him out to LDE and lets see him try to work as an end. Plunk Okam down next to TJ and see what happens. Maybe it doesn't work but I'd look at it.
That's so far outside the box I can't even see the dots. But, I like it. I would tweak your idea by moving Mario to LDE (he's better against the run) and put Okoye at RDE. Okoye is similar in height to Freeney. Maybe Amobi could drop 10-15 lbs? Maybe the next DC will be so innovative?

Polo
08-26-2008, 03:18 PM
You should. They'll have a much easier time scoring 30 plus a game than they will keeping anybody under 21 points. We averaged just under 24 points per game last year and I think we'll be a couple of field goals or one more touchdown better this year than last year "on average".

I went back and looked...

We actually held opponents to 21 or fewer points more times than we scored 30 or more.

Holding opponents to 21 or under: 7

Scoring 30 +: 4

Hervoyel
08-26-2008, 03:19 PM
That's so far outside the box I can't even see the dots. But, I like it. I would tweak your idea by moving Mario to LDE (he's better against the run) and put Okoye at RDE. Okoye is similar in height to Freeney. Maybe Amobi could drop 10-15 lbs? Maybe the next DC will be so innovative?

What do we have to lose?

All of a sudden we won't be able to stop the run or pressure the QB? Seems like we're in that boat right now.

Hervoyel
08-26-2008, 03:23 PM
I went back and looked...

We actually held opponents to 21 or fewer points more times than we scored 30 or more.

Holding opponents to 21 or under: 7

Scoring 30 +: 4

Yeah I know, I did too. Still one of those opponents was Kansas City and they held themselves under 10 points without any help from us and our offense is a work in progress improving from 28th in points and yards to 12th and 14th respectively while our defense just sits and spins in the 20's.

One unit the stock is rising on, the other is dead in the water as it is.

DBCooper
08-26-2008, 03:25 PM
This is a wonderful read guys. One of the more thoughtful threads on here. Alot of brain power being used. It's healthy and good to see. I'm glad to see so many "ideas" of how to run the Defense. I'm impressed that we have so many potential coordinators on this forum. When they do fire Richard Smith i expect them to come ask us to line up for tryouts.

Look, I know alot of you are frustrated with the way the defense plays but I just don't have much faith in any of you as coordinators. I'm curious what the combined experience level is of the posters on this thread as it pertains to NFL defensive schemes. I know alot of you watch alot of games on TV. alot of you watch alot of the games in person. alot of you attend the practices that are open to the public. that means you by the way. "the public", the average joe working man, the fan, the spectator, speculator, the unqualified opinionated know it all drunken bum, dumb dumb.

I just don't see how without attending ALL the practices, sitting in the meetings, watching the team films (not the single angle zoomed in version provided to you by "your staff" over at CBS) that you can possibly have any remotely reasonable insight into what is best for the Defense.

What you have is knowledge. More than the average fan. I know we all pride ourselves on knowing more about this team than anyone. Even our fellow Texans fan friends that don't know who Jesse Nading is or that Tim Carter was cut along with Mark Fenton or Scott Jackson was placed on IR today. I learn as much as I can from watching my friends TIVO too, but that doesn't make me a defensive coordinator.

I digress...

Go Texans.


Just because Richard Smith has "some" experience and some inside "knowledge", doesn't mean he's any good as a defensive coordinator.

barrett
08-26-2008, 03:51 PM
i didn't say he was. i'm saying he has more information to work with that we do. i know it's fun to think about what we would do if we were in charge but the odds are he's better at it that we are. that doesn't make him good at it. it makes him better at it than us. not better that 31 other teams necessarily. but i'm saying he has information that shapes his decisions that we don't have. that doesn't make his decisions correct, but it makes them better informed decisions that our specualtion.

threetoedpete
08-26-2008, 04:03 PM
Well whoop whoop dare it is....someone was looking for a defensive nick name a few months back...the "dead in the water defense". The no prop gang. the shaft is moving fast but the boat ain't going anywhere.

threetoedpete
08-26-2008, 04:16 PM
This is a year to take risks. We can afford to give up points if we create some turnovers. With our offense this year, the defense should be about getting the offense the ball as many times as possible in the 60 minutes... Very much like to Indy defense has worked for them. Agressive, attacking, playmaking despite a number of weaknesses and holes.

If we give up 24 points but create 2-3 turnovers and our offense gets 10-11 posessions and some in very good field position, I feel great about them scoring 30 points.

Might as well bring the gangster Jerry Glanville back while you're at it. I'm guessing here....Richard Smith is doing exactly precisely what Gary Kubiak wants him to do. Smith may fall on his sword for Gary. But Smith isn't the goat here. The players, or their lack of talent are. Kubiak isn't throwing anyone under the bus....including Smith. Hasn't done it yet.

As far as our offense is concerned every d-coordinator saw the Dallas game too. Bet on anything bet that on third and long there will be six coming until we beat it. Corner fires...safety fires...dog blitzes of every shape and size. Pittsburgh will bring all the heat they have. The young RBs will get an education if Green can't go.

Texanmike02
08-26-2008, 04:23 PM
This isn't quite what I wanted honestly. Not that its all about what I want, but what I was trying to demonstrate is that its all well and good to say "I want the LBs to do this". Well, what effect does that have on every other area of the field. If you have someone vacate an area/man you have to do one of two thing. Either take the risk that the offense will be able to take advantage of that or you have to some how fill the void left. I don't expect anyone to be a coordinator here but it should be something you can look at and say "well if I blitz the SAM, I'm ok with having mario drop back into coverage". Stunts are something that you don't have to do that with so much but what about blitzing a DB. Are you ok with blitzing Bennett, taking a Safety, putting him on Bennett's man and then leaving Reeves with no help over the top. Do you want an LB running with Dallas Clark in that situation where there's no help over the top? That is what I'm talking about about how the defficiencies this team has limit what we can do on defense. Sure every team has weaknesses but the specific weakness we have make it difficult to get agressive without leaving an area of the field wide open. I guarantee you that Manning will look and if he see's Bennett blitzing he looks at the Safety or looks him off and then hits Reeves man down the sideline for 50 yards. You want to take that gamble? Against a team like Indy, as well as the play action works for them do you want to run blitz a LB and leave the flat open for Clark? What assignment do you take away from the LB to do that? Do you have a safety cover for him? Do you drop a lineman?

That's what I was trying to get at, perhaps I should have come out and just said it instead of it.


Again, I'm not against replacing Smith. I just think that if we replace Smith today, tomorrow our defense won't look all that different.
Mike

Hervoyel
08-26-2008, 04:41 PM
Yeah but basically none of us are defensive coordinators and we all know it. We're fans and we see more than people who don't pay any attention to football at all but we don't know enough to sit here and truly make recommendations about how to make caviar out of rat turds if that is indeed the problem we have here.

I've seen coaches come in and elevate the players they were given. I've seen this and so have we all. We know it can be done. I've seen coaches completely reinvent a defense in a couple of seasons. We've all seen this.

We're not seeing it here in Houston. If we go out this year and roll up another 24th in defense then I'm going to be bitching like all hell about Richard Smith until all of you guys put me on global ignore (all seven of you who haven't done it already) because I know it doesn't have to be this way. Either we're picking up flawed players and trying to build a skyscraper with them or the guy doing the building has never built anything bigger than a dog house.

I'd rather play younger faster guys and see us get burned growing than play people like Weaver and Greenwood who are clearly not getting it done. I'm in favor of giving younger players opportunities and I'm in favor of just doing about anything to get to the other teams QB and I know we're going to get burned doing that but I'm hoping that guy is hearing footsteps and seeing double by the end of the first quarter and I'm trusting my offense to keep pace with whatever I give up. Richard Smith says his defense is going to be aggressive and it's never been aggressive even one time since the day he got here. I can make recommendations (from my limited view as a fan) all I want but if the problem is Richard Smith then all we're going to do is put other players in a position not to succeed and what does that accomplish?

Good thread idea but I just don't know if we're capable of doing that with the information we have. We're going to war this year with "Dick" Smith and the men from N.I.D. so it's not like we can do anything but hold on and watch it all unfold.

thunderkyss
08-26-2008, 04:43 PM
I think some of it is kind of on Kubiak, and I don't necessarily mean that as a bad thing.

I think our Defense is nothing too fancy, by design. Whether that's intentional or b/c of lack of talent, I don't know. But what they're going for is trying not to get beat deep on a big play. Keep the game manageable, no quick scores, actually allow the team to catch the ball short but stop them before the 1st down marker.


I put some of the blame on Kubiak as well.

If we were able to turnover our offensive roster as thoroughly and completely as we have, and had the success that we've had, I would have found a Defensive Coordinator I felt was capable of doing the same on the defensive side of the ball.

Someone found Kevin Walter, Someone found Andre Davis, Ephraim Salaam, Vonta Leach, Sage Rosenfels, and Matt Schaub.. Someone picked the players who stayed from the old regime, and someone drafted Owen Daniels, & Eric Winston.

We've had injuries set us back on offense, and we've had some questionable draft picks on offense, but we've managed to make something out of the offense.

Talent evaluation, coaching, patience with certain players, none with others, and having a system that allows you to pick players that do specifically what you want them to do.

Defensively, We've drafted pretty good. Mario, Demeco, Okoye, Diles... FA wise, we got Demps. We also got Cochran, Maddox, Jamar Fletcher, Zgonia, Kalu, & Weaver... no stars in the making, but they're solid football players. And all but Fletcher have been here long enough to make you believe the coaching staff is happy with those players. Same thing with CC Brown(who I like), Dunta Robinson, & Petey Faggins, if these aren't the players they wanted, they could have been long gone.

What was that LB we signed to be our MLB in Kubiak's first year?? where's he?? How many corners have come and gone?? How many safeties??

Now, you can say that's the best we could get at the time, and we just can't do anything with them, but I'm not buying that. The corners have been basically the same.. none of them have been speed guys, none of them have any size. They're smallish guys who play physical, who need to brush up their coverage skills. That's what they're looking for.

Safeties who can play Strong or Free...... most of them have been Strong Safety types...... uh... I guess that's what they are looking for.

LBs.... Demeco and Adibi are smallish(at least Demeco used to be smallish) speedy guys... Diles, Clark...... they're built like Greenwood. Greenwood has started for three years now. These coaches are not scared to put young players in the game, and try them by fire(unless it's a running back).

But I think they got the players they want, and if they don't, it's their own fault, they need to find out what that reason is, and handle it.

We play a soft, soft Defense, that is scared to allow the big play. & I think that's because they aren't very well prepared. They don't appear to understand the concept of Zone defense.

They don't appear to understand passing players/responsibility to each other. Guys run through their zones, when they should be covered...... they're going into a zone, were nobody is. They cover guys in their zone, when their is another person waiting for them in the next zone. So they end up double covering one guy, and leaving someone else wide open.

Offensively, that's what plays are designed to do. Stress a certain player, or a cetain zone. Where the QB doesn't pay too much attention about what his players are doing, but he's more concerned with what the defense is doing. His reads, are the safety, the corner, the LB. IF he does this, the X is going to be open. And we make it too easy for them, because we do exactly what they expected us to do. Lets run Z straight at this LB, if he moves up with Z, then Y is going to be open on this crossing route. We need that LB to stay and watch Y crossing the middle, and let the safety come down and get Z.

dalemurphy
08-26-2008, 04:55 PM
This is a wonderful read guys. One of the more thoughtful threads on here. Alot of brain power being used. It's healthy and good to see. I'm glad to see so many "ideas" of how to run the Defense. I'm impressed that we have so many potential coordinators on this forum. When they do fire Richard Smith i expect them to come ask us to line up for tryouts.

Look, I know alot of you are frustrated with the way the defense plays but I just don't have much faith in any of you as coordinators. I'm curious what the combined experience level is of the posters on this thread as it pertains to NFL defensive schemes. I know alot of you watch alot of games on TV. alot of you watch alot of the games in person. alot of you attend the practices that are open to the public. that means you by the way. "the public", the average joe working man, the fan, the spectator, speculator, the unqualified opinionated know it all drunken bum, dumb dumb.

I just don't see how without attending ALL the practices, sitting in the meetings, watching the team films (not the single angle zoomed in version provided to you by "your staff" over at CBS) that you can possibly have any remotely reasonable insight into what is best for the Defense.

What you have is knowledge. More than the average fan. I know we all pride ourselves on knowing more about this team than anyone. Even our fellow Texans fan friends that don't know who Jesse Nading is or that Tim Carter was cut along with Mark Fenton or Scott Jackson was placed on IR today. I learn as much as I can from watching my friends TIVO too, but that doesn't make me a defensive coordinator.

I digress...

Go Texans.


Come on Barrett!

First, no one is saying they should be the defensive coordinator.

Second, and most important... something important to know about life:

You don't have to match someone in talent, knowledge, or experience in order to practice better judgement.

Of course Richard Smith knows more about coaching defenses, has more experience at it, and is better at it than I am. However, that doesn't mean I can spot his mistakes, errors, or wayward philosophy.

obligatory Hitler example: Hitler knew a lot more about running a country and leading people than I do also, but I think I can spot a couple of his mistakes and errors as well. Or, am I not qualified to do so?

thunderkyss
08-26-2008, 04:59 PM
One more thing. TJ, Okoye, Mario...... they're all "quick" for their relative position. TJ & Okoye should shoot their gaps everytime we blitz, Mario should just go for the QB, either side of the LT, RT, TE, whatever..... shoot a gap, and make the Guard Decide to help with Mario, or with Amobi.... send him to the outside, and get that RB helping on Mario.... then you can send Colvin, or Demeco, or CC straight up the middle, through whichever hole opens up.

I saw them blitz a few times, and they either tried to stunt the DL at the same time, or they dropped a DL in coverage. IMHO, stunting slows down our DL. and dropping a DLman into coverage just freed up a blocker, and it just looked like that blocker was exactly where we were trying to send the blitzing LB. Instead of dropping Weaver off the strong side, and sending Greenwood/Ryans on the weakside, they'd send the SAM.

Why?? that guard, or tackle that had responsibilyt for Weaver felt relieved that you dropped him into coverage, and now, he just has to pick up the LB who was at the second level, he's got all the time in the world to get ready for "the blitz".

Polo
08-26-2008, 05:13 PM
Yeah...It's the play calls....

That's why the players can't get it done....

Well except for Guys like Mario, D-Rob, Meco, Amobi (5.5 sacks as a rookie), Demps (pro bowl alternate), TJ (Our best Dt), Zach Diles (The youngster), CC (The Assassin), Freddy B. (stretch)...

You know...The guys with talent...lol

The Pencil Neck
08-26-2008, 05:20 PM
This is a wonderful read guys. One of the more thoughtful threads on here. Alot of brain power being used. It's healthy and good to see. I'm glad to see so many "ideas" of how to run the Defense. I'm impressed that we have so many potential coordinators on this forum. When they do fire Richard Smith i expect them to come ask us to line up for tryouts.

Look, I know alot of you are frustrated with the way the defense plays but I just don't have much faith in any of you as coordinators. I'm curious what the combined experience level is of the posters on this thread as it pertains to NFL defensive schemes. I know alot of you watch alot of games on TV. alot of you watch alot of the games in person. alot of you attend the practices that are open to the public. that means you by the way. "the public", the average joe working man, the fan, the spectator, speculator, the unqualified opinionated know it all drunken bum, dumb dumb.

I just don't see how without attending ALL the practices, sitting in the meetings, watching the team films (not the single angle zoomed in version provided to you by "your staff" over at CBS) that you can possibly have any remotely reasonable insight into what is best for the Defense.

What you have is knowledge. More than the average fan. I know we all pride ourselves on knowing more about this team than anyone. Even our fellow Texans fan friends that don't know who Jesse Nading is or that Tim Carter was cut along with Mark Fenton or Scott Jackson was placed on IR today. I learn as much as I can from watching my friends TIVO too, but that doesn't make me a defensive coordinator.

I digress...

Go Texans.

So we should have been happy with Casserly, Capers, Pendry, and Fangio? Because we're not coaches we should just shut up and sit down and take the gruel that they're sloshing on our plates?

Regardless of the details, I can look at my defense and see that we're in the bottom third of the league. And I can hope for more than that.

The Pencil Neck
08-26-2008, 05:27 PM
This isn't quite what I wanted honestly. Not that its all about what I want, but what I was trying to demonstrate is that its all well and good to say "I want the LBs to do this". Well, what effect does that have on every other area of the field. If you have someone vacate an area/man you have to do one of two thing. Either take the risk that the offense will be able to take advantage of that or you have to some how fill the void left. I don't expect anyone to be a coordinator here but it should be something you can look at and say "well if I blitz the SAM, I'm ok with having mario drop back into coverage". Stunts are something that you don't have to do that with so much but what about blitzing a DB. Are you ok with blitzing Bennett, taking a Safety, putting him on Bennett's man and then leaving Reeves with no help over the top. Do you want an LB running with Dallas Clark in that situation where there's no help over the top? That is what I'm talking about about how the defficiencies this team has limit what we can do on defense. Sure every team has weaknesses but the specific weakness we have make it difficult to get agressive without leaving an area of the field wide open. I guarantee you that Manning will look and if he see's Bennett blitzing he looks at the Safety or looks him off and then hits Reeves man down the sideline for 50 yards. You want to take that gamble? Against a team like Indy, as well as the play action works for them do you want to run blitz a LB and leave the flat open for Clark? What assignment do you take away from the LB to do that? Do you have a safety cover for him? Do you drop a lineman?

That's what I was trying to get at, perhaps I should have come out and just said it instead of it.


Again, I'm not against replacing Smith. I just think that if we replace Smith today, tomorrow our defense won't look all that different.
Mike

Those sorts of details aren't really relevant to us at our level. Do they happen and have to be dealt with, yeah. But every single team in the league has to deal with those sorts of questions and design their schemes to deal with it.

The basic questions come down to this:

1. Why do most other teams get pressure on the QB when they blitz?
2. Why are most other teams able to keep a team for tearing off 5-10 yards a pop in the run game?
3. Why do the DB's seem to be much closer to the receivers when they catch the ball in a zone defense?
4. Why can't we seem to get anyone close to the receiver on a screen play?

Maybe it is the talent or the football IQ of our players. But to me, it seems like our scheme is putting our players into the wrong place at the wrong time. Like TKyss said, we're dropping Weaver into coverage and then sending the blitzer into the space Weaver vacated... that's a bad design. We should be overloading places and forcing mismatches. And we're not.

If we're going to be passive and play bend don't break, that's one thing. If that's our scheme, fine. Let's make it work. But according to Smith, our defense is supposed to be aggressive. And that means taking some risks. Right now, we seem to lack big plays like you'd see from a passive defense and we give up big plays like you'd expect from an aggressive defense. :)

Texans_Chick
08-26-2008, 06:36 PM
Yeah but basically none of us are defensive coordinators and we all know it. We're fans and we see more than people who don't pay any attention to football at all but we don't know enough to sit here and truly make recommendations about how to make caviar out of rat turds if that is indeed the problem we have here.

I've seen coaches come in and elevate the players they were given. I've seen this and so have we all. We know it can be done. I've seen coaches completely reinvent a defense in a couple of seasons. We've all seen this.

We're not seeing it here in Houston. If we go out this year and roll up another 24th in defense then I'm going to be bitching like all hell about Richard Smith until all of you guys put me on global ignore (all seven of you who haven't done it already) because I know it doesn't have to be this way. Either we're picking up flawed players and trying to build a skyscraper with them or the guy doing the building has never built anything bigger than a dog house.

I'd rather play younger faster guys and see us get burned growing than play people like Weaver and Greenwood who are clearly not getting it done. I'm in favor of giving younger players opportunities and I'm in favor of just doing about anything to get to the other teams QB and I know we're going to get burned doing that but I'm hoping that guy is hearing footsteps and seeing double by the end of the first quarter and I'm trusting my offense to keep pace with whatever I give up. Richard Smith says his defense is going to be aggressive and it's never been aggressive even one time since the day he got here. I can make recommendations (from my limited view as a fan) all I want but if the problem is Richard Smith then all we're going to do is put other players in a position not to succeed and what does that accomplish?

Good thread idea but I just don't know if we're capable of doing that with the information we have. We're going to war this year with "Dick" Smith and the men from N.I.D. so it's not like we can do anything but hold on and watch it all unfold.


Lots of good stuff in this. We as fans not looking at film and not being experts on NFL defenses are out of our element talking too much X and O about players who we know little about as far as their inherent abilities. We see what they do on the field, but sometimes those they have been asked to do those things.

All I know given what I've seen to date (not just preseason, but prior to this year) is:

1. With an offensive minded head coach, I want a defensive coordinator that I feel comfortable giving the keys to.

2. There is little in Smith's background that suggests he can build a defense from scratch.

3. The best defenses in the league have a defined philosophy and they obtain players to suit that philosophy Our defensive philosophy seems to be avoiding the thing that sucked so much the week before.

4. The offseason moves don't give me a lot of comfort that the defense is going to look any better.

5. I'm pretty sure that we keep Smith for the season. I do not think Ray Rhodes is the answer due to his age/health concerns. But how long does Smith get a pass because the talent isn't good enough to run his system, whatever it is?

thunderkyss
08-26-2008, 06:39 PM
Yeah...It's the play calls....

That's why the players can't get it done....

Well except for Guys like Mario, D-Rob, Meco, Amobi (5.5 sacks as a rookie), Demps (pro bowl alternate), TJ (Our best Dt), Zach Diles (The youngster), CC (The Assassin), Freddy B. (stretch)...

You know...The guys with talent...lol

You're right, those guys are going to get theirs.... now we can wait, lose a bunch of football games, until we have 11 probowlers on defense, or we can learn a little bit about the game, and start scheming so our less talented players can earn the money they are getting.

thunderkyss
08-26-2008, 06:45 PM
But how long does Smith get a pass because the talent isn't good enough to run his system, whatever it is?

hopefully until they think they can lure Mike Singletary, or some other successful up and coming defensive mind.

CloakNNNdagger
08-26-2008, 07:13 PM
Reading so many of these posts, I share the suspect nature of Smith's influence on our D's level of success.

I came across a 2007 article focusing on Richard Smith as defensive coordinator. (http://www.noticias.info/Archivo/2007/200707/20070731/20070731_304362.shtm)There are too many points in the article that I would like to quote or make comments about to take up that much space. However, one quote stood out to me, the rest I will leave to you to read:

“We were just OK (at the beginning of 2006). And I think in this league, if you’re OK you’re going to get your tail beat." - Richard Smith

steelbtexan
08-27-2008, 12:03 AM
Lots of good stuff in this. We as fans not looking at film and not being experts on NFL defenses are out of our element talking too much X and O about players who we know little about as far as their inherent abilities. We see what they do on the field, but sometimes those they have been asked to do those things.

All I know given what I've seen to date (not just preseason, but prior to this year) is:

1. With an offensive minded head coach, I want a defensive coordinator that I feel comfortable giving the keys to.

2. There is little in Smith's background that suggests he can build a defense from scratch.

3. The best defenses in the league have a defined philosophy and they obtain players to suit that philosophy Our defensive philosophy seems to be avoiding the thing that sucked so much the week before.

4. The offseason moves don't give me a lot of comfort that the defense is going to look any better.

5. I'm pretty sure that we keep Smith for the season. I do not think Ray Rhodes is the answer due to his age/health concerns. But how long does Smith get a pass because the talent isn't good enough to run his system, whatever it is?

Agreed TC

We need to say out with the old in with the new.

I expect to see RICH SMITH DAN RILEY & BOBBY GREIR replaced next year. Greir has done a bad job in FA.

I nominate Ron Rivera as new DC. Have you noticed how the Bears defense has fallen off since he left.

76Texan
08-27-2008, 01:21 AM
So, we're gonna take an offense that was pretty decent last year and simplify it, and feel all giddy about it!

Then, we gonna take a suspected defense and try to make it more complicated?

Uhmmm!
How logical!

- Now, this is only in respond to this specific thread, 'cause the many folks who wants to fire Smith were taking the result from last year, adding to it the perception of the pre-season, and come to the conclusion that the D will remain the same as last year.

The Pencil Neck
08-27-2008, 02:27 AM
So, we're gonna take an offense that was pretty decent last year and simplify it, and feel all giddy about it!

Then, we gonna take a suspected defense and try to make it more complicated?

Uhmmm!
How logical!

- Now, this is only in respond to this specific thread, 'cause the many folks who wants to fire Smith were taking the result from last year, adding to it the perception of the pre-season, and come to the conclusion that the D will remain the same as last year.

No, I think the main point is that Smith is on a short leash. He needs to figure out what's wrong with what he's been doing and he needs to make it work. And if he doesn't, then we need to find someone who can. A defense that is ranked 29th in first down percentage and 27th in the league in yards per rushing attempt and 25th overall in passing yards given up and 30th in the league in Defensive Passer Rating (at 93.6) is just not cutting it. He himself said that in this league "doing OK" wasn't doing well enough and we're not even doing OK on defense.

BUT... let's see if the defense we start off the year with is the same defense we've seen in preseason and last year.

threetoedpete
08-27-2008, 02:57 AM
Always easier firing the coach. They've got who they've got. And it's not going to be until the '09 off season that they can upgrade. They sent people against Dallas. And once again no one got there. They have no faith that anyone will. They'll run the umbrella and hope no one gets behind them. I got it. Run stunts with LBs but after three years no one is able to get there what is he supposed to do ? We're not athletic enough in the back seven to send six....that's when you'll know they've pushed the panic button. They're sending six and the results are the same there's no where left to go but the '09 draft. And that's a long ways off. I think we'll get killed if they send six. We don't have the athletes in the back seven to cover the Tampa two, judging the results so far this preseason, much less matching up some of our gems on an island one on one. But whatever. Let Smith dangle from the whipping post. Don't forget the salt for the wounds.

We play a soft, soft Defense, that is scared to allow the big play. & I think that's because they aren't very well prepared. They don't appear to understand the concept of Zone defense.

To be brutally honest....and I'm not going to get into another hwsnbn contest...,My last word on this drivel....Marlon Greenwood sucks. He can't cover speed and he can't rush the QB...he isn't Lawrence Taylor. Will Kubiak throw the veteran under the bus and play Adibi ? No that is not what this HC does.

Reeves...so far sucks... so now you've got a will Lb and a DB who can't contribute because why....not because the d-coordinator is passive, not because they're "not prepared" because they dare not let the back side corner get locked up on speed because he is basically toast after three steps playing man up. Why...because no one gets there when they send four much less five. They do not have the athletes to make up for the non athletes they have. And then there is Weaver. So basically this guy has to make chicken salad with this three stiffs who are chicken dung. And I don't know any coach who can be a stinking genius when he has thirty percent of his guys who are basically stiffs, no better than stop gap journeymen. And to have one on defense...you might make that up. Two Maybe....but not three. Kubiak has said it over and over again....they must get pressure from the front four. Why....so they can save the cap dollars at safety. That's it. They're not going to change their safety policy. And they aren't going to change their front four policy. You can jump up and down all you want....these are the HC's policies. Smith is doing what he is being told to do. I got it. It is the Texans policy to play the way they do with who they have. What the hell else can they do if they do not have the athletes yet to be aggressive ? Kubiak is not going to roll the dice and gamble that he will come out ahead with a balls to the wall all out aggressive defense. That's not who this guy is.

I'll tell you when it is time Texans chick....when they draft their replacements. Until then you put lipstick on the the pigs and support them. They're not going anywhere until '09. And my money says Smith will be out the door when Gary Kubiak is out the door.

barrett
08-27-2008, 03:52 AM
so not for many years to come then?

beerlover
08-27-2008, 05:44 AM
what if Rhodes is here to not only coach but evaulate the Texans current status like Reeves was a consultant? Most of us at least, know the Texans have some decent tools to work with on defense, cornerstones in fact who are going to be Texans for a number of their best years going forward. I've never been one to complain about this coaching staff or Richard Smith in particular I would say if there is one thing it is they error on the conservative side. thus the vanilla comparisons & thats why they need to extend the best talent on the team challenging them to play sound fundementals, make calculated plays on the ball, be opportunistic forcing turnovers & becoming playmakers with double/tripple back-up.

Amobi needs to switch to LDE in pass rushing situations with Mario the RDE. the corners need to jam hard @ the line of scrimmage, Reeves needs to be aware of the ball in flight better. if Weaver is playing tackle he needs to keep his area clean & not drop into coverage so quickly. Greenwood needs to also guard his territory & not bite on fakes or mis-direction be patient taking what comes. Diles & Demeco can blitz from the middle & strong side over Amobi or Mario. the safetys need to plant & drive through the runner/receiver & punish over the middle/underneath. Be aggressive, smart, diciplined & follow the game plan.:wild:

MightyTExan
08-27-2008, 07:45 AM
Wasn't Frank Bush one of Kubiak's first choices for DC? I predict he takes the reigns after this season.

thunderkyss
08-27-2008, 08:24 AM
Always easier firing the coach. They've got who they've got. And it's not going to be until the '09 off season that they can upgrade.

You've already lost, if you discount FA/trades all together. To be a winner, you've got to be successful at managing the draft, FA, and trades.

They sent people against Dallas. And once again no one got there. They have no faith that anyone will. They'll run the umbrella and hope no one gets behind them. I got it.

Most of my post was about playing zone.

Run stunts with LBs but after three years no one is able to get there what is he supposed to do ? We're not athletic enough in the back seven to send six....that's when you'll know they've pushed the panic button. They're sending six and the results are the same there's no where left to go but the '09 draft.

Maybe we need to look at how we're sending six, opposed to how other teams are sending 5, and getting there. If my LB is too slow, then we need to go nickel, and send the extra corner. Go dime, and get 6 DBs on the field. Send the extra two DBs..... or drop them both into coverage. We may end up giving up the big run plays.......

but we're doing that anyway.

And that's a long ways off. I think we'll get killed if they send six. We don't have the athletes in the back seven to cover the Tampa two, judging the results so far this preseason, much less matching up some of our gems on an island one on one.

The Tampa Two is a two deep zone...... it's more about smarts & preperation than talent.

And if we're not athletic enough to match up one on one on an Island, why do we do it all the time??

....Marlon Greenwood sucks. He can't cover speed and he can't rush the QB...he isn't Lawrence Taylor. Will Kubiak throw the veteran under the bus and play Adibi ? No that is not what this HC does.

Of course not. There's no way this crew is going to stick a rookie at a position as important as middle linebacker in front of a veteran player. Or Corner, or DT, or DE, or TE, or RB... not these guys.


Reeves...so far sucks... so now you've got a will Lb and a DB who can't contribute because why....not because the d-coordinator is passive, not because they're "not prepared" because they dare not let the back side corner get locked up on speed because he is basically toast after three steps playing man up.

That's what we do.... we man up on our corners all the time. Our corners don't jam the receivers at the line, that's what most of our complaints are(not mine).... they won't jam a receiver coming off the line, because we know they'll get burned.... but we man up on the corners, 99% of the time.

Why...because no one gets there when they send four much less five. They do not have the athletes to make up for the non athletes they have. And then there is Weaver. So basically this guy has to make chicken salad with this three stiffs who are chicken dung. And I don't know any coach who can be a stinking genius when he has thirty percent of his guys who are basically stiffs, no better than stop gap journeymen.

How did those stiffs get there?? Did Kubiak just wake up one day and found Weaver as his starting DE?? or Reeves as his starting corner?? We've had LB FA come and go, but Greenwood has been a lock. If he's that bad, surely all these other guys couldn't have been worse, and even if they are..... wouldn't you at least try someone else there just to see what you've got?? Can't get any worse can it??

I know you would, you've said you would, but these guys don't. Is that the players fault??

And to have one on defense...you might make that up. Two Maybe....but not three. Kubiak has said it over and over again....they must get pressure from the front four. Why....so they can save the cap dollars at safety. That's it.

What??



They're not going to change their safety policy. And they aren't going to change their front four policy. You can jump up and down all you want....these are the HC's policies.

No, these are not the HC policies. This is what the HC has to do, because coverage sucks. IF coverage was better, we would blitz more.

Smith is doing what he is being told to do. I got it. It is the Texans policy to play the way they do with who they have. What the hell else can they do if they do not have the athletes yet to be aggressive ?

They need to stop the run with the front 7. The DBs need to ignore the run, stay on their assignments, and they'll get burned less often. Right now, I think there is such an emphasis on the run, that we bite on every fake, and we wait to react on every other play.

Kubiak is not going to roll the dice and gamble that he will come out ahead with a balls to the wall all out aggressive defense. That's not who this guy is.

That's who he said he was

Hervoyel
08-27-2008, 09:31 AM
...That's who he said he was


So..."they are who we thought they were"?

Dennis is that you? :)

thunderkyss
08-27-2008, 10:13 AM
So..."they are who we thought they were"?

Dennis is that you? :)

If you wanna go ahead and crown their ass, then crown their ass.

:spit:

Goldensilence
08-27-2008, 01:26 PM
Always easier firing the coach. They've got who they've got. And it's not going to be until the '09 off season that they can upgrade. They sent people against Dallas. And once again no one got there. They have no faith that anyone will. They'll run the umbrella and hope no one gets behind them. I got it. Run stunts with LBs but after three years no one is able to get there what is he supposed to do ? We're not athletic enough in the back seven to send six....that's when you'll know they've pushed the panic button. They're sending six and the results are the same there's no where left to go but the '09 draft. And that's a long ways off. I think we'll get killed if they send six. We don't have the athletes in the back seven to cover the Tampa two, judging the results so far this preseason, much less matching up some of our gems on an island one on one. But whatever. Let Smith dangle from the whipping post. Don't forget the salt for the wounds.

Problem isn't just ok well we'll send 6 ..no SIX players as you mention but it's the approach to sending that extra one or two. Chose a weaker link some in someone's line and send the extra person to them and have them make the decision do you take on Mario or Okoye as a blocker nad let the LB go by or vise versa. The idea on a good blitz and TK has said is overloading one side or you find mismatches in your favor. We went out and got two fast athletic LBs for this reason yet...I'm still not seeing anything except a UDFA getting the only sack this preseason. Leads me to believe Smith is getting the tools he's asking for but has no idea what to really do with them.



To be brutally honest....and I'm not going to get into another hwsnbn contest...,My last word on this drivel....Marlon Greenwood sucks. He can't cover speed and he can't rush the QB...he isn't Lawrence Taylor. Will Kubiak throw the veteran under the bus and play Adibi ? No that is not what this HC does.

Don't buy that either. This team when Kubiak got here had no problems cutting Walker, Robaire, trading off Babin or cutting some fat from the old regime. They had no problem going out signing Sam Cowart to play stop gap MLB then gave the spot to a rookie Demeco Ryans. Reeves to me is on Richard Smith. We had an entire off season to prepare for Dunta not being able to go for the season and when Reeves is the guy you selected out that on you.

Reeves...so far sucks... so now you've got a will Lb and a DB who can't contribute because why....not because the d-coordinator is passive, not because they're "not prepared" because they dare not let the back side corner get locked up on speed because he is basically toast after three steps playing man up. Why...because no one gets there when they send four much less five. They do not have the athletes to make up for the non athletes they have. And then there is Weaver. So basically this guy has to make chicken salad with this three stiffs who are chicken dung. And I don't know any coach who can be a stinking genius when he has thirty percent of his guys who are basically stiffs, no better than stop gap journeymen. And to have one on defense...you might make that up. Two Maybe....but not three. Kubiak has said it over and over again....they must get pressure from the front four. Why....so they can save the cap dollars at safety. That's it. They're not going to change their safety policy. And they aren't going to change their front four policy. You can jump up and down all you want....these are the HC's policies. Smith is doing what he is being told to do. I got it. It is the Texans policy to play the way they do with who they have. What the hell else can they do if they do not have the athletes yet to be aggressive ? Kubiak is not going to roll the dice and gamble that he will come out ahead with a balls to the wall all out aggressive defense. That's not who this guy is.

No one is going to argue on Weaver being a weak link and his contract makes him a hard cut to take but at least hide him best as you can and don't waste a spot having a freaking DE drop into coverage. Sorry getting pressure from the front four is just about EVERY coordinator's policy but if he can't get it done then you manage creative solutions with your roster. 3rd year in this is more or less Smith's roster now.He's handicapping himself starting those 2.

I'll tell you when it is time Texans chick....when they draft their replacements. Until then you put lipstick on them and support them. They're not going anywhere until '09. And my money says Smith will be out the door when Gary Kubiak is out the door.[/QUOTE]

I think Adibi is Greenwood's replacement and I hope if Morlon continues to whiff we get the brilliant idea well if someone is whiffing at least it should be a rookie with much more upside learning on the fly then I'd much rather take my chances there.

If you can't get Weaver to get pressure fine. Bench him and rotate him with someone that can either Colvin or Bulman. I don't care which one but at least they look much better in their attempts to rush the passer then Weaver dropping back into coverage.

I really hope you are wrong about Smith staying until Kubiak goes. With the way he has reworked the offense he's going to be here a while.

Polo
08-27-2008, 01:49 PM
I'm hearing some pretty unrealistic suggestions...

I think defense will be fine this year until we can get upgrades in talent and coaching.

Goldensilence
08-27-2008, 01:53 PM
I'm hearing some pretty unrealistic suggestions...

I think defense will be fine this year until we can get upgrades in talent and coaching.

Care to point some out?

At least add some different flavor to your vanilla responses.

barrett
08-27-2008, 01:58 PM
maybe he's masking his response so you can't tell what he's trying to say when you come to the line of scrimmage?

Polo
08-27-2008, 02:00 PM
Gary heard the mans pitch before he hired him.

If they didn't have similar views on how they wanted to construct the defense he should have moved on to the next candidate.

As long as Gary is happy with him, so am I.

If Kubes wants to hitch his wagon to a bad co-ordinator then both of them need to go.

HOU-TEX
08-27-2008, 02:25 PM
I see people annointing Adibi as a replacement for Greenwood and have yet to figure out how one can do such without proof. Adibi has hardly seen the field due to being nicked up. We don't even know how he'll translate to the NFL yet. Yeah, yeah, I know what he did in College, but you've got to prove it in the NFL and you can't do that sitting on the sidelines.

Here's a few comments from SmithDC concerning Adibi:

ďAdibi is a guy that his weight is a little bit of an issue. Letís go back, why did we draft him? Heís got good athletic ability. Heís got smooth feet. Those are the things you like about him. The thing that concerns you a little bit is he has been injured. How well have you done a good job of evaluating him on this field? You have to practice and you have to play to be able to be evaluated, which I havenít seen that much.

ďAny time you have a backer, heís about 225, 226, youíd like him to get bigger. You have to get bigger and stronger.

Iím praying to God that he can play this week so weíll get a good opportunity to evaluate him. If not, then this organization has to make a decision based on what we saw of him in college

Doesn't sound like a ringing endorsement to me. IMO, he needs to wash the Green and Brown cooties off and rub on some D-Ryans and MW cooties.

:texflag:

TexansSeminole
08-29-2008, 01:48 PM
I see people annointing Adibi as a replacement for Greenwood and have yet to figure out how one can do such without proof. Adibi has hardly seen the field due to being nicked up. We don't even know how he'll translate to the NFL yet. Yeah, yeah, I know what he did in College, but you've got to prove it in the NFL and you can't do that sitting on the sidelines.

I think Adibi will push Greenwood in the regular season because Greenwood has looked really, really bad thus far. Give Adibi a year to adjust to the league and I would bet he has the starting WLB job by the start of next year. Proof you ask for? I have none other than Greenwood's terrible play, and Adibi's playmaking ability in college.


After watching the Bucs game last night, I couldn't help to think how terrible our defensive playcalling was. It's almost as if our D-coordinator doesn't understand short to intermediate passes. He rushes the QB with 5 guys and leaves nobody to cover the middle of the field. I can't tell you how many times I saw us blitz and the QB throws a little checkdown and dude gets 13 yards.

Our defensive playcalling has been very bad over the preseason which isn't much different than last year. Not only has the playcalling been bad, but we really need to beat outside containment into our players. They lost outside contain constantly during the Bucs game. I know you can only coach them so far, but obviously the punishment for losing contain isn't working because it was happening on a consistent basis in the preseason. Due to the frequency of this problem, I feel like I have to put that on the defensive coaches.

I think we could be a good defensive football team with a solid scheme. We have some great defensive players and some role players who can get the job done. But we won't ever be a good defensive football team with these players if the scheme we have is...ineffective...no that gives a little more credit than is due...terrible is a more accurate way to describe our defensive scheme.

beerlover
08-29-2008, 02:25 PM
I think Adibi will push Greenwood in the regular season because Greenwood has looked really, really bad thus far. Give Adibi a year to adjust to the league and I would bet he has the starting WLB job by the start of next year. Proof you ask for? I have none other than Greenwood's terrible play, and Adibi's playmaking ability in college.


After watching the Bucs game last night, I couldn't help to think how terrible our defensive playcalling was. It's almost as if our D-coordinator doesn't understand short to intermediate passes. He rushes the QB with 5 guys and leaves nobody to cover the middle of the field. I can't tell you how many times I saw us blitz and the QB throws a little checkdown and dude gets 13 yards.

Our defensive playcalling has been very bad over the preseason which isn't much different than last year. Not only has the playcalling been bad, but we really need to beat outside containment into our players. They lost outside contain constantly during the Bucs game. I know you can only coach them so far, but obviously the punishment for losing contain isn't working because it was happening on a consistent basis in the preseason. Due to the frequency of this problem, I feel like I have to put that on the defensive coaches.

I think we could be a good defensive football team with a solid scheme. We have some great defensive players and some role players who can get the job done. But we won't ever be a good defensive football team with these players if the scheme we have is...ineffective...no that gives a little more credit than is due...terrible is a more accurate way to describe our defensive scheme.

:goodpost:

However, besides College film, Senior Bowl & combine workouts what has Adibi done on film as a Texan? Its not a question of talent its his application of said talent to the football field in the NFL. I'm not willing to annoit him anything until he earns it & produces in practice then games.



He has given both Coley & Moffit an opporunity which they've embraced making these upcoming cuts more painfull. I'd even consider putting Adibi on PUP to give these two young players more time to see what they can do & add depth to the LB corps. Of the two Coley seems the more polished to me & could be added to the 45 man roster while Moffit is placed on the practice squad. Just buying time, god forbid any injurys (other than Greenwood, hah).

You know we all get caught up in the measureables when it comes to football players, always looking for those ideal measurements but the one thing thats overlooked repeatedly is the production on the football field, see DeMeco, this is where the focus should be on these cuts. Richard Smiths use of packages/schemes are dumbfounding at times but he can't go out there block or tackle anyone. He can put the most productive players on the field in the best positions to help make plays, force turnoevers & go offensive :d:

Hook'er
09-08-2008, 03:29 PM
Gary heard the mans pitch before he hired him.

If they didn't have similar views on how they wanted to construct the defense he should have moved on to the next candidate.

As long as Gary is happy with him, so am I.

If Kubes wants to hitch his wagon to a bad co-ordinator then both of them need to go.

I hope Gary's not ready to loose his job over him!

jdog
09-08-2008, 08:55 PM
The DE's contain the edges or rush the passer and communicate run or pass by throwing up a hand. Left side raises hand if running to their side. Right side raises hand if running to their side. Both raise hands if up the middle. No hands means a pass.

The DT's fill gaps on a run or double team the center on a pass and push him back into the pocket.

The CB's cover a triangular area on each side from the line of scrimmage to overlap the linebacker area on their side and back to overlap the safety area on their side.

The Safeties split the field behind and overlapping the linebackers and cornerbacks areas in rectangular areas.

The Middle Linebacker hunts down the ball all over the field and communicates to the rest of the team.

The other Linebackers split the field underneath the safeties and overlap with the cornerback and safeties areas.

There should be three defensive players in any area of the field.

Teach better tackling and communication skills.

TexansSeminole
09-08-2008, 09:10 PM
After watching the Bucs game last night, I couldn't help to think how terrible our defensive playcalling was. It's almost as if our D-coordinator doesn't understand short to intermediate passes. He rushes the QB with 5 guys and leaves nobody to cover the middle of the field. I can't tell you how many times I saw us blitz and the QB throws a little checkdown and dude gets 13 yards.

Our defensive playcalling has been very bad over the preseason which isn't much different than last year. Not only has the playcalling been bad, but we really need to beat outside containment into our players. They lost outside contain constantly during the Bucs game. I know you can only coach them so far, but obviously the punishment for losing contain isn't working because it was happening on a consistent basis in the preseason. Due to the frequency of this problem, I feel like I have to put that on the defensive coaches.

I think we could be a good defensive football team with a solid scheme. We have some great defensive players and some role players who can get the job done. But we won't ever be a good defensive football team with these players if the scheme we have is...ineffective...no that gives a little more credit than is due...terrible is a more accurate way to describe our defensive scheme.


I see the same problems I was seeing in the preseason.

An inability to cover the middle of the field
Personnel issues
Containment problems
Too much cushion by the corners

People were talking about our defensive playcalling being vanilla in the preseason, but I didn't see much of a change on Sunday against Pittsburgh outside of Mario's stellar play.

Thorn
09-08-2008, 09:22 PM
I didn't see much of a change on Sunday against Pittsburgh outside of Mario's stellar play.

Tampa Bay built a pretty darn good team around Lee Roy Selmon. We can build one around Mario. But not this year. LOL

dsorc
09-08-2008, 11:32 PM
Here's what I saw as the game plan from the Steelers. They knew our D-line was going to give their o-line trouble in pass protect so they started off the game with running to the outside and 3 step drops to get some quick releases. At the very beginning our run D was doing ok but our pass D sucked because the WR had too much of a cushion off the snap, specially Hines Ward. To make matters worse, when Hines was in motion he ended up matched up with a LB a couple of times which is clearly an easy matchup for the WR. As the defense got tired the run D got worse and we lost outside and inside contain. The one bright spot is that once the secondary started giving the D-line time the pressure got there.

So here's what I assume any good defensive coach would do with our personnel. We have two S that are supposed to work as both SS and FS so esentially we're talking cover 2 or exchangeable cover 3. Probably more cover 2 as the base since none of them has that much range. Have both CBs bump and run in man with both S ready to give help over the top. While there is the risk of a deep bomb this way you give time for your D-line to make plays. Then stretch out your LBs so that the main priority of the OLBs is outside contain. Demeco can then take care of the middle and make plays sideline to sideline like he usually does. We have three tackling machines in that unit but they need to make those tackles before the guy gets to the secondary.

In other words, I don't think we have the personnel to run a bend don't break system. Our biggest strength is our d-line, but if we bend so much they don't have the time to make a play. We need to bring a guy that is not afraid of the big play and just tells our guys to man up and play tight. We'll get bombed from time to time but I'll bet more often than not we'll be able to get pressure.

Now obviously there are two weaknesses to this approach, the middle is wide open since I want to push the OLB outside and to the LOS and the S are deep; the other is the deep ball due to playing press with less than stellar corners. The first is easily solved by telling our linebackers to take out anybody that might run a pattern in the middle, especially RBs. I.E. the main responsibility of the OLB would be to hit the RB at the LOS if he's coming to his side no matter if he's got the ball or not. The second issue should not be that bad because Mario should now have time to pummel the QB. We need a DC that will remind our players the value of physical intimidation.

ESAD2-14
09-09-2008, 08:22 AM
People were talking about our defensive playcalling being vanilla in the preseason, but I didn't see much of a change on Sunday against Pittsburgh.

Or the last 3 years.............:whip: