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View Full Version : Shawn Merriman's Career May Be Over


texasguy346
08-23-2008, 05:58 PM
Apparently the rumor that was circling a couple weeks ago might be true.

link (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/HeadLines.aspx?sport=NFL&hl=120636)

76Texan
08-23-2008, 06:05 PM
That's too bad for him!

gary
08-23-2008, 06:06 PM
Great player too bad it had to end this way I wish him the best.

TexansLucky13
08-23-2008, 06:33 PM
I'm no expert... are we sure that this is career ending?

GuerillaBlack
08-23-2008, 06:48 PM
I think people are jumping to conclusions too quick. It looks like he won't play this season, but I don't think it's career ending.

gary
08-23-2008, 06:50 PM
We'll see.

J-Russ
08-23-2008, 07:08 PM
How I really feel: Karma's a *****, he shouldn't have cheat those first couple of years, now he has anger the football gods.

Alittle more on the classy side: Hope you got your degree in college, or else, good luck flipping burgers at what-a-burger.

J-Russ
08-23-2008, 07:11 PM
If this is true, can we say this was the hit that put him into retirement?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTbCtjX_y0w

rmartin65
08-23-2008, 07:29 PM
He is a great pass rusher. But with the steroids... Dont steroids but a bad stress on your ligaments?

CloakNNNdagger
08-23-2008, 07:49 PM
For those who may not remember or even be aware of, this is the exact same combination of injuries for which AJ was operated on last year.

stingray
08-23-2008, 07:57 PM
For those who may not remember or even be aware of, this is the exact same combination of injuries for which AJ was operated on last year.

Wasn't AJ's ligaments just partially torn?

CloakNNNdagger
08-23-2008, 08:27 PM
Wasn't AJ's ligaments just partially torn?

They were torn and stretched enough to render his knee significantly unstable, the same as Merriman.

dc_txtech
08-23-2008, 08:43 PM
I heard a few days ago that Merriman visited the dreaded Dr. Andrews, when a player admits that his career might be over it's very bad news.

CND, AJ didn't tear his LCL last year did he?

The Pencil Neck
08-23-2008, 09:25 PM
He is a great pass rusher. But with the steroids... Dont steroids but a bad stress on your ligaments?

It's not that the steroids put stress on the ligaments but that the muscle bellies can get stronger than their attachments (tendons) and that you can create strength imbalances that can put unnatural stress on the ligaments. That's why anabolic steroids get a good synergy from hGH. But some types of steroids, Deca iirc, help with ligaments and tendons and make your joints feel much better.

At least, that's what I've heard.

CloakNNNdagger
08-23-2008, 09:47 PM
I heard a few days ago that Merriman visited the dreaded Dr. Andrews, when a player admits that his career might be over it's very bad news.

CND, AJ didn't tear his LCL last year did he?

No, you're actually correct, he tore his MCL........leads to the same horizontal motion instability.........just from the other side.

dc_txtech
08-23-2008, 09:54 PM
No, you're actually correct, he tore his MCL........leads to the same horizontal motion instability.........just from the other side.

So in your opinion is AJ's injury possibly on the same level as Merriman's?

CloakNNNdagger
08-24-2008, 07:45 AM
So in your opinion is AJ's injury possibly on the same level as Merriman's?

Yes, and that is why I have been remained guarded about AJ's ability to return and/or time of being ready to return, level of performance if/when he returns...........and his ability to stay of the field.

Texans_Chick
08-24-2008, 08:22 AM
For those who may not remember or even be aware of, this is the exact same combination of injuries for which AJ was operated on last year.

Are they the same injuries?

Here's the description of Merriman's injury (http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2008/08/23/shawne-merrimans-left-knee-is-worse-than-initially-reported/):

Sometime early this coming week, Merriman will fly to Miami to get one more opinion on how he should proceed. As was revealed earlier this week, he has a torn posterior cruciate ligament.
"Many guys play with that," Merriman said. "No big deal."
Perhaps the bigger issue is that Merriman has a tear in his lateral collateral ligament (LCL) as well, a fact that he revealed Saturday.
"The combination makes it kind of difficult," Merriman said. "It makes your knee feel very unstable. It's something that I've been trying to deal with, hoping it would get better by now."

As I understood, the description of Andre Johnson's injuries was a "PCL/MCL sprain" That he did not get operated on last year because the best way to rehab that would be rest and strengthening the muscles around the sprain. And that the operation Johnson had this spring was a scope to remove particles from the knee that were causing irritation. (And I've been told he hasn't had previous operations to that knee).

With Merriman, the public pronouncements are tears to both the PCL and LCL.

Is that not different?

CloakNNNdagger
08-24-2008, 10:21 AM
Are they the same injuries?

Here's the description of Merriman's injury (http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2008/08/23/shawne-merrimans-left-knee-is-worse-than-initially-reported/):



As I understood, the description of Andre Johnson's injuries was a "PCL/MCL sprain" That he did not get operated on last year because the best way to rehab that would be rest and strengthening the muscles around the sprain. And that the operation Johnson had this spring was a scope to remove particles from the knee that were causing irritation. (And I've been told he hasn't had previous operations to that knee).

With Merriman, the public pronouncements are tears to both the PCL and LCL.

Is that not different?

Again, not having "direct access to all the facts," I'l try to answer your questions. First of all, the term sprain and tear are interprettable. Sprain can refer to stretching out of the ligament as well as a "partial tearing." Keep in mind that in stretching of the ligament, there is tearing of the structure. When the injury is referred to as a "complete tear," that is pretty well the only definitive description. When you have an isolated PCL injury (sometimes even severe), it is many times hardly noticeable, the other ligaments (ACL, MCL, LCL) can, so to speak, "compensate." However, as the PCL is further stressed/stretched/torn by continued play, the overcompensating ligaments, especially the MCL and LCL are stressed beyond their limits and eventually "give" to the added stress with injury to its own structure. As this continues, the knee becomes more and more unstable, with the joint grinding in abnormal motions with overload surface friction, and with resulting knee cartilage damage. The "clean out" that AJ necessitated is most likely due to this cartilaginous damage to his knee. Even when the ligament injury is supposedly "healed," the later effects of chronic progressive arthritis are not unexpected. The actual assessment of the success of the healing process will be known only when AJ gets on the field and applies the "true test."


TC, I would challenge you to find a media source that reported specific MRI findings.........they either report that a "sprain was revealed" of "revealed that surgery would not be necessary."

Texans_Chick
08-24-2008, 10:49 AM
Again, not having "direct access to all the facts," I'l try to answer your questions. First of all, the term sprain and tear are interprettable. Sprain can refer to stretching out of the ligament as well as a "partial tearing." Keep in mind that in stretching of the ligament, there is tearing of the structure. When the injury is referred to as a "complete tear," that is pretty well the only definitive description. When you have an isolated PCL injury (sometimes even severe), it is many times hardly noticeable, the other ligaments (ACL, MCL, LCL) can, so to speak, "compensate." However, as the PCL is further stressed/stretched/torn by continued play, the overcompensating ligaments, especially the MCL and LCL are stressed beyond their limits and eventually "give" to the added stress with injury to its own structure. As this continues, the knee becomes more and more unstable, with the joint grinding in abnormal motions with overload surface friction, and with resulting knee cartilage damage. The "clean out" that AJ necessitated is most likely due to this cartilaginous damage to his knee. We don't know that this is not a repeat cycle or continuum of what he went through in college. Even when the ligament injury is supposedly "healed," the later effects of chronic progressive arthritis are not unexpected. The actual assessment of the success of the healing process will be known only when AJ gets on the field and applies the "true test."


TC, I would challenge you to find a media source that reported specific MRI findings.........they either report that a "sprain was revealed" of "revealed that surgery would not be necessary."

The media reports will never be specific enough.

I haven't heard of any reports of him having this issue in college.

The reason why I thought Merriman's situation might be a little different as far as severity is the repeated reports in his case that a number of people are suggesting surgery is the best option for Merriman. Which suggests to me that his situation is more severe than AJ's. Though the Texans are pretty good at keeping things quiet.

I do know through my own sources that I'm very confident in that the scope AJ received this spring is the only surgery that he has had on his knee.

Sal Rosenberg
08-24-2008, 10:59 AM
Sorry to hear that but at least I do not have to watch his stupid Yak in Heat dance anymore

CloakNNNdagger
08-24-2008, 11:22 AM
The media reports will never be specific enough.

I haven't heard of any reports of him having this issue in college.

The reason why I thought Merriman's situation might be a little different as far as severity is the repeated reports in his case that a number of people are suggesting surgery is the best option for Merriman. Which suggests to me that his situation is more severe than AJ's. Though the Texans are pretty good at keeping things quiet.
I do know through my own sources that I'm very confident in that the scope AJ received this spring is the only surgery that he has had on his knee.

That's the problem I have trying to interpret the state of things. The difficulty remains, to try to compare when you don't know if you have apples or oranges in your basket.:thinking:

CloakNNNdagger
08-24-2008, 11:30 AM
The media reports will never be specific enough.

I haven't heard of any reports of him having this issue in college.The reason why I thought Merriman's situation might be a little different as far as severity is the repeated reports in his case that a number of people are suggesting surgery is the best option for Merriman. Which suggests to me that his situation is more severe than AJ's. Though the Texans are pretty good at keeping things quiet.

I do know through my own sources that I'm very confident in that the scope AJ received this spring is the only surgery that he has had on his knee.

TC, that was my bad......if you noticed, I caught myself and edited that statement out 3 minutes prior to your response. Sorry 'bout that.:tiphat:

Texans_Chick
08-24-2008, 11:36 AM
The media reports will never be specific enough.

I haven't heard of any reports of him having this issue in college.The reason why I thought Merriman's situation might be a little different as far as severity is the repeated reports in his case that a number of people are suggesting surgery is the best option for Merriman. Which suggests to me that his situation is more severe than AJ's. Though the Texans are pretty good at keeping things quiet.

I do know through my own sources that I'm very confident in that the scope AJ received this spring is the only surgery that he has had on his knee.

TC, that was my bad......if you noticed, I caught myself and edited that statement out 3 minutes prior to your response. Sorry 'bout that.:tiphat:


Nah, I didn't see that. I just appreciate all the good work your do around here trying to keep the teams even semi-honest. :smiliedance:

Mailman
08-24-2008, 12:57 PM
This thread title is inaccurate.

Merriman's 2008 season in in jeopardy, but the claim that his career may be over is media hyperbole.

nunusguy
08-24-2008, 12:58 PM
For those who may not remember or even be aware of, this is the exact same combination of injuries for which AJ was operated on last year.
WOW ! I did not know his injuries were that serious !

Vinny
08-24-2008, 01:21 PM
This thread title is inaccurate.

Merriman's 2008 season in in jeopardy, but the claim that his career may be over is media hyperbole.agreed, but his career "as we know it now" may be over if he loses some burst. Suddeness and ability to deliver a blow separates the great players from the good players. He may go on to have a long career but there is a chance he will never be as sudden as he is now.

rmartin65
08-24-2008, 01:37 PM
It's not that the steroids put stress on the ligaments but that the muscle bellies can get stronger than their attachments (tendons) and that you can create strength imbalances that can put unnatural stress on the ligaments. That's why anabolic steroids get a good synergy from hGH. But some types of steroids, Deca iirc, help with ligaments and tendons and make your joints feel much better.

At least, that's what I've heard.

Right. Thanks for that.

CloakNNNdagger
08-24-2008, 01:53 PM
Originally Posted by CloakNNNdagger
For those who may not remember or even be aware of, this is the exact same combination of injuries for which AJ was operated on last year.

WOW ! I did not know his injuries were that serious !

Quote should have read "wasn't." :woot2The previous posts would explain the rest.

Mailman
08-24-2008, 01:54 PM
WOW ! I did not know his injuries were that serious !

We don't know that they are. I haven't read any reports of doctors telling AJ his career is threatened if he continues to play without reconstructive surgery.

There's no question that the stability of AJ's knee has been compromised and he is susceptible to re-injury, but equating his situation to Merriman's without the benefit of more information is speculative at best.

dc_txtech
08-24-2008, 02:13 PM
This thread title is inaccurate.

Merriman's 2008 season in in jeopardy, but the claim that his career may be over is media hyperbole.

Rotoworld is reporting that "Merriman admits career could be over".

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/playerbreakingnews.asp?sport=NFL&id=3171&line=120636&spln=1


I didn't hear him say it myself but if he did admit that his career could be over, that's very bad news. Players don't typically say things like that.

Mailman
08-24-2008, 02:33 PM
Rotoworld is passing along inaccurate information. He was asked about the consequences of playing on his knee without reconstructive surgery.

"It could be career-threatening if I did [play]," Merriman said. "It's a possibility. That possibility is still open."

“With the injury I have, nobody would prefer that somebody really play,” Merriman said. “But right now I can play. It's a high risk I (could) injure it further. But it's hard. I want to be on the field.”

texasguy346
08-27-2008, 01:41 PM
Apparently Merriman is going against the advice of the 4 doctors who told him to have surgery, and is going to play this year. That's a pretty big risk he's taking.

link (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/HeadLines.aspx?sport=NFL&hl=121027)

Hardcore Texan
08-27-2008, 01:53 PM
Apparently Merriman is going against the advice of the 4 doctors who told him to have surgery, and is going to play this year. That's a pretty big risk he's taking.

link (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/HeadLines.aspx?sport=NFL&hl=121027)

I think this is very dumb decision.

Specnatz
08-27-2008, 01:59 PM
Apparently Merriman is going against the advice of the 4 doctors who told him to have surgery, and is going to play this year. That's a pretty big risk he's taking.

link (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/HeadLines.aspx?sport=NFL&hl=121027)

With him being that stupid his career just might be in jeopardy.

hobie
08-27-2008, 02:04 PM
I'd be surprised the teams doctor would give him the green light to play, and then add would the team coaches and management allow him to...
No way in hell I would allow it, even if it means not having the season I wanted, his health is more important if I can have him for 3-4 years down the road instead of 3 games this year and have him done for good...

Don't issue him a helmet ....

Specnatz
08-27-2008, 02:20 PM
I'd be surprised the teams doctor would give him the green light to play, and then add would the team coaches and management allow him to...
No way in hell I would allow it, even if it means not having the season I wanted, his health is more important if I can have him for 3-4 years down the road instead of 3 games this year and have him done for good...

Don't issue him a helmet ....

What do they care, he is signed thru 2009, after that he is a FA and they are off the hook. Besides they just gave a nice big extension to his backup. So I do not think they had plans to re-sign him after this year. It is like they already knew about the damage before word leaked out.

TexansLucky13
08-27-2008, 02:23 PM
I'd be surprised the teams doctor would give him the green light to play, and then add would the team coaches and management allow him to...
No way in hell I would allow it, even if it means not having the season I wanted, his health is more important if I can have him for 3-4 years down the road instead of 3 games this year and have him done for good...

Don't issue him a helmet ....

Agreed.

I can see it now, though. The Chargers make it to the Super Bowl, Merriman makes a late 4th quarter interception and they kneel it out for the win. His book "I gave the doctors the finger and got my ring" would sell 1,000,000,000 copies. The doctors are fired and ridiculed. ESPN's ratings soar.

:tease:

texan pride
08-27-2008, 02:25 PM
There is a difference between being a warrior and an *****. I wish him luck but have a bad feeling about him playing in the condition he is in.

WWJD
08-27-2008, 05:37 PM
See steroids really do fry your brain! He's proof.

CloakNNNdagger
08-27-2008, 08:14 PM
I certainly would not know what is going through his mind, but here's a possiblity. There are no really great studies citing exact numbers for surgical outcome with the type of surgery he would be undergoing for his combination of injuries. The limited information generalizes that approximately 1/2 may be expected to return to play competitively, 1/3 to play at their previous level, and 1/6 to never play again. (These numbers refer to a pot pouri of all degrees of PCL injuries, including the lesser serious injuries.........not only multi-combination injuries)

HOU-TEX
08-28-2008, 09:11 AM
Eh, it's his career. If he wants to possibly piss it away....let him.

Mr teX
08-28-2008, 10:03 AM
I certainly would not know what is going through his mind, but here's a possiblity. There are no really great studies citing exact numbers for surgical outcome with the type of surgery he would be undergoing for his combination of injuries. The limited information generalizes that approximately 1/2 may be expected to return to play competitively, 1/3 to play at their previous level, and 1/6 to never play again. (These numbers refer to a pot pouri of all degrees of PCL injuries, including the lesser serious injuries.........not only multi-combination injuries)

screw all that.. this is about money plain & simple. he's under contract through 2009 which means that if he shuts it down this year he'll have 1 year to come back off of serious knee surgery & be a complete beast like he was before. Since we all know that guys usually take at least a season to come back & be the player that were prior to the injury, (if they ever come back as the guy they were before) the above mentioned is likely not to happen.


Not to mention they're very high on his back up & just gave him a nice little grip to stick around. If merriman chooses to be laid up somewhere with a cast on his leg or comes back & doesn't show that explosiveness immediately while Tyler performs well, that makes merriman expendable & he misses out on a big pay day that SD assuredly would've given him had he been healthy.... plus if he looks really bad, he could also be released or traded.

And even before all this, we don't know how his current contract is set up, i.e. incentive laden. He might be missing out on millions if he doesn't get his stats.

CloakNNNdagger
08-28-2008, 02:11 PM
screw all that.. this is about money plain & simple. he's under contract through 2009 which means that if he shuts it down this year he'll have 1 year to come back off of serious knee surgery & be a complete beast like he was before. Since we all know that guys usually take at least a season to come back & be the player that were prior to the injury, (if they ever come back as the guy they were before) the above mentioned is likely not to happen.


Not to mention they're very high on his back up & just gave him a nice little grip to stick around. If merriman chooses to be laid up somewhere with a cast on his leg or comes back & doesn't show that explosiveness immediately while Tyler performs well, that makes merriman expendable & he misses out on a big pay day that SD assuredly would've given him had he been healthy.... plus if he looks really bad, he could also be released or traded.




And even before all this, we don't know how his current contract is set up, i.e. incentive laden. He might be missing out on millions if he doesn't get his stats.


I certainly understand your points.....and they have some validity. But if it's a money thing, in the big picture, he's potentially getting some real bad advice. With his type of injuries, the longer he "runs" on this bum knee, the more chance for further definitive damage to the joint and the less the chance that a good outcome occurs as far as return to play. If money is the main concerned, he may be kissing much more money goodbye than what he would if he were to address the problem now.

CloakNNNdagger
08-30-2008, 08:14 AM
Merriman (http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/chargers/20080828-9999-1s28chargers.html)has decided to play the lottery on the NFL field.

Tedc
08-30-2008, 08:31 AM
Merriman (http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/chargers/20080828-9999-1s28chargers.html)has decided to play the lottery on the NFL field.

Merriman is not as smart as people give him credit. If it is about money, coming back 100% will allow him another big contract. Coming back at 70-80% with a bum knee allows him to get injured seriously and ending any chance at another big contract.

You have to wonder about athletes at times.

kastofsna
09-02-2008, 02:09 AM
if they didn't have the kind of mentality that makes them come back despite injuries like this, they wouldn't be in the NFL in the first place