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View Full Version : DL, & our pass rush...


thunderkyss
08-19-2008, 09:22 AM
I'm scratching my head.... with 3 1st round picks on the DL, and we can't get any pressure on the QB.....

So, I'm watching the N.O. game finally, to see what's going on.

1. Hopefully they'll start calling "holding" in the regular season. The Saints were pretty blatant about it, and not one was called. I'm not going to say we dominated their line or anything like that, but we definitely would have had a few sacks, or stalled some drives, had they called holding.

2. WTF.. everytime we blitzed, the four down linemen were stunting. Normally, you would think that would help, but our guys suck at stunting. Mario, TJ, Amobi....... they're all go through your man & get to the QB kind of Linemen. When we Blitz, that's what we should be doing. None of them have any lateral speed to speak of.

3. We're stunting.... our guys suck(a repeat of the above, but this one is for 4 man rushes). Travis Johnson will never make it around the DE. Never, and I like TJ. That's just not his game.

4. Why in the world was Earl Cochran playing DT??

5. Probably because Frank Okam is a disappointment. I'll usually give a guy time to develop, I'll usually give a guy the benefit of the doubt, at one time, I was high on Frank Okam...... but now?? Looks like very little effort coming from him... he's just going through the motions. For a guy we(I) thought was the steal of the draft, he ought to be blowing up against second teams.... We should be demanding to see him with the first team, but TJ has nothing to worry about right now.

6. Didn't we sign a pass rush specialist?? Rosevelt Colvin, where the hell is he?? I see someone out there on the field, with the name on his jersey, but that can't be the guy we brought in to get to the QB.

He's not going to get any pressure from the DE spot. they need to move him to the LB spot, and use him on passing downs. We should put him in at Will, or Sam, and rush Mario, TJ, Amobi, Kalu.

7. What the hell was TJ doing in coverage??

8. That Reggie Bush touchdown, we had a DL blow the coverage, I think it was Cochran. He dropped into coverage, over the tightend..... our safety had him, no problem. He let Reggie leak into the flat. Had a LB covered him, and recognized the safety had the TE...... that play never would have happened.

9. Did I mention how disappointed I am in Frank Okam??



:jogger:

Toro59
08-19-2008, 09:36 AM
1st round picks don't always turn out to be first round players. We all know about Mario. Amobi is still TBD. And TJ in my opinion is a bust. Not that he's a bad player, but definaltly not a 1st round choice.

I keep thinking it's only the preseason. Will see what happens when the games actually matter...

gtexan02
08-19-2008, 09:41 AM
Not that this necessarily matters, BUT:
New Orleans was the premier team last year at keeping Dl off their QB. They only allowed 16 sacks all season, and led the league.

We went up against the very best pass protection team in the NFL

Kaiser Toro
08-19-2008, 09:49 AM
Valid points. However, they are points made after two pre-season games. Game 3 will be a better measuring stick. Moreover, one of the underlying themes for this team is that this is the first year where we have some depth in certain areas. Rotating fresh players who can make an impact with the playbook fully open into the 4th quarter is something to look for. The Texans D Line may close teams down in the later stages of the game.

Just opining aloud....

maddogmrb
08-19-2008, 09:50 AM
Okay, give 'em some slack for preseason and for the fact the Saints are excellent at protecting the QB, even though it wasn't their #1's out there most of the time.

But, I still believe we have a coaching/scheme problem on defense. If a DT can't stunt well enough to get outside a stunting DE, then HOW IN THE WORLD WOULD WE THINK HE COULD DROP BACK IN COVERAGE?????

To me, and I've played a bunch of ball. Sending a DL into coverage is about as effective as putting a CB at DT or a WR at G. Ridiculous.....

:d:

nunusguy
08-19-2008, 09:52 AM
I'm a bit concerned about Okoye. I haven't really watched him this year, but to a man the posters who comment on his play are panning him and yet I'd heard so much positive stuff coming from Kubiak about his progress this year in TC. So what's going on with AO ? Is he having a good preseason or not ?

Seņor Stan
08-19-2008, 10:02 AM
I'm a bit concerned about Okoye. I haven't really watched him this year, but to a man the posters who comment on his play are panning him and yet I'd heard so much positive stuff coming from Kubiak about his progress this year in TC. So what's going on with AO ? Is he having a good preseason or not ?


Kubiack also said that Mario was our most consistant defensive player at the start of last year, but it wasn't showing up in the stat sheets....

We all know how that one turned out.

thunderkyss
08-19-2008, 10:48 AM
Kubiack also said that Mario was our most consistant defensive player at the start of last year, but it wasn't showing up in the stat sheets....

We all know how that one turned out.

But watching Mario, there was no doubt.

He was in the backfield, he was mowing people over, he was doing several good things, and it was only a matter of time.

If you watch Amobi, I'm not saying he disappears, or that he lacks motivation like Okam, but he isn't as dominating as Mario was. I'm not counting Amobi out, or anything like that, but I'm just not seeing the comparison to Mario, like everyone is saying.

Texan JBZ
08-19-2008, 10:54 AM
I'm a bit concerned about Okoye. I haven't really watched him this year, but to a man the posters who comment on his play are panning him and yet I'd heard so much positive stuff coming from Kubiak about his progress this year in TC. So what's going on with AO ? Is he having a good preseason or not ?


No he isn't. Check out the Amobi Okoye thread. I have faith that he is going to be a good player for the Texans this year, but he has some serious work to do.

Hervoyel
08-19-2008, 10:56 AM
I'm a bit concerned about Okoye. I haven't really watched him this year, but to a man the posters who comment on his play are panning him and yet I'd heard so much positive stuff coming from Kubiak about his progress this year in TC. So what's going on with AO ? Is he having a good preseason or not ?


I'd tend to go with Kubiak over what we all generally say. We don't know as much about what the Texans are trying to do as we collectively think we do. Maybe we'll see more clearly on Friday against Dallas where our DL truly is. They'll be out there playing longer than in any game so far and I always feel like they have to be on the field a little longer than they have been to find the kinks in an offensive line's armor.

Ty Webb
08-19-2008, 11:02 AM
Sometimes it is a good idea, but I think we move our defensive lineman around too much. Maybe I'm wrong but it seems that we have some guys playing out of position at times.

HJam72
08-19-2008, 11:09 AM
Yeah, sometimes it's not good to have our DTs back in pass coverage. :thinking:

TJ did get an INT. doing that last year, though (well, sort of). :)

Texan JBZ
08-19-2008, 11:23 AM
Yeah, sometimes it's not good to have our DTs back in pass coverage. :thinking:

TJ did get an INT. doing that last year, though (well, sort of). :)


Richard Smith runs a lot of zone blitzes. Most of the time you see a DE drop back in coverage in most zone stunts, but a few will call for the DT to drop back in the dump or curl lane to prevent a kick drop off pass. I really don't like Richard Smith's schemes. I like aggressive 4-3 schemes, like the one's that Tennessee, Philly, and the NY Giants run. We need to be aggressive like their defenses are. Smith is way too conservative in his play-calls.

Texan JBZ
08-19-2008, 11:25 AM
Richard Smith runs a lot of zone blitzes. Most of the time you see a DE drop back in coverage in most zone stunts, but a few will call for the DT to drop back in the dump or curl lane to prevent a kick drop off pass. I really don't like Richard Smith's schemes. I like aggressive 4-3 schemes, like the one's that Tennessee, Philly, and the NY Giants run. We need to be aggressive like their defenses are. Smith is way too conservative in his play-calls.

Ooops, that's quick drop off pass. No coffee yet:gun:

Hervoyel
08-19-2008, 11:28 AM
Richard Smith runs a lot of zone blitzes. Most of the time you see a DE drop back in coverage in most zone stunts, but a few will call for the DT to drop back in the dump or curl lane to prevent a kick drop off pass. I really don't like Richard Smith's schemes. I like aggressive 4-3 schemes, like the one's that Tennessee, Philly, and the NY Giants run. We need to be aggressive like their defenses are. Smith is way too conservative in his play-calls.


No way man, "aggressive" is what a Richard Smith defense is all about. He can't tell you anything else about what he's trying to do or how he plans on doing it but he uses the word "aggressive" a lot.

"We're going to be an aggressive defense with aggressive schemes and aggressive players who do aggressive things while trying to stop the other team.... aggressively."

I've seen message board posters who I'd feel better about planning our defense than this guy. No, I don't count myself among them.

HJam72
08-19-2008, 11:30 AM
Kick passing never was real effective. :)

HJam72
08-19-2008, 11:31 AM
I bet dropping the DTs back works real good against those unexpected run plays. :gun:

The Pencil Neck
08-19-2008, 11:36 AM
If you go back and look, you'll also see Weaver dropping back into coverage and it's almost scary. He was out there "covering" Bush on one play; luckily, Bush dropped the pass. That could have been embarrassing.

I noticed it last year that Richard Smith runs some zone blitzes but he also runs some three man rushes where he lines up 4 dlinemen and then drops one into coverage without bringing a blitzer.

Other than that, I agree with you. I've been hoping for more from both Okoye and Okam. I was really high on Okam when we drafted him and I'm still hoping he gets it together and pushes TJ for starts.

TheRealJoker
08-19-2008, 12:06 PM
I've never been on the Richard Smith bandwagon and he has yet to show anything that causes me to believe I may be on his bandwagon in the future.

I think i'm generally a glass half full thinker when it comes to the Texans but there is nothing to suggest that Richard Smith will be able to get our defense to play up to their pay grade.

As a matter of fact, I dont even think he's in the top 3 defensive coaches on our staff, much less the head guy.

BigBull17
08-19-2008, 12:18 PM
Richard Smith runs a lot of zone blitzes. Most of the time you see a DE drop back in coverage in most zone stunts, but a few will call for the DT to drop back in the dump or curl lane to prevent a kick drop off pass. I really don't like Richard Smith's schemes. I like aggressive 4-3 schemes, like the one's that Tennessee, Philly, and the NY Giants run. We need to be aggressive like their defenses are. Smith is way too conservative in his play-calls.

Amen. I hate our Scheme. Id rather get beat on a along play because we blitzed too many people, than watch our 4 man rush get nickle and dimed down the field. Just open it up and come at people from everywhere. Blitz the guy holding the yard marker.

Ole Miss Texan
08-19-2008, 12:21 PM
I actually really like when linemen drop back into coverage. I'm giving them the benifit of the doubt because it's preseason. I think that thinking is being severely misinterpreted and overused though, b/c preseason is critically important for a team to practice in game time situations, full speed, it's against other teams not teammates, and coaches get to see how backups perform- there's some tough decisions cutting 80 down to 53. With that said, I hate the injuries (which happen all the time with your own practices) and wish the preseason was a game shorter.

In game one we stuck to the run at the beginning, even when it wasn't working. This is an example of why preseason is good. If this was the regular season we wouldn't have done that. I think it's good to practice play calling but we know what we need to work on and that's running. Even with 8 or 9 guys in the box... we still ran. If you can run successfully against that, you're doing well. We're just seeing how our backs and OL do- so I have no problem with that.

Back to my thinking and the DL (sorry for the tangent). I love seeing D-linemen drop back in coverage on occasion, we may be doing it too much preseason but it doesn't matter- they are PRACTICING... it's the perfect time to try it out and get the hang of it. If you use it on a limited basis during the preseason, it's an awesome way to create turnovers. There's not much better than to see Mario drop back unexpectedly into the path of the receiver and surpise the QB when he throws it... Mario catches it and takes it to the house.

You do it too much and it's extremely ineffective. (or if you use unathletic DT's). :)

gtexan02
08-19-2008, 12:25 PM
I totally agree. They try lots of garbage plays that they want to see in live action. If it doesn't work, its scrapped. If something good happens, they keep it. Thats what preseason is for.

As for blitzing, I think its overrated. Its great on Madden, but not so good in the NFL. A well timed blitz every once in a while is great, but if you have to leave our inexperienced secondary on an island every pass play we are going to be giving up some gaudy numbers on pass defense. When you have 3 first picks and a couple of highly touted FAs as your front 4, you shouldn't need to bring the house to get pressure on the QB

beerlover
08-19-2008, 12:38 PM
speed kills in pass rush situations which is why when the season rolls around you'll see more blitz packages using linebackers (DeMeco Ryans) safeties (CC Brown) & corners (Fred Bennett maybe even Dunta when ready from rehab). It might be a fun exercise to start a thread with individual sack projections for the 08 season. either way its all about breaking down protection & disrupting timing on defense something the defensive line should do a much better job of given the talent & coaching invested.

Kubiak from last weekend-

We continue to search for some pressure. We’ve moved some people around from week one to week two. We’ll continue to do that to give some guys some opportunities to step up and put some pressure on the quarterback. Looking individually, I thought Mario (Williams) was good in the game. I think Zac Diles continues to step forward. I thought Amobi (Okoye) had his best outing in the preseason. You go to the second group, N.D. Kalu continues to push for a spot on this team. He’s rushing the passer pretty well, he is the guy applying the pressure. (Tim) Bulman played pretty darn good, came back this week and played well. Chaun Thompson, it was nice to see him get on the field and make some plays. Overall, defensively we gave up too many big plays. That will be a point of emphasis here as we move forward. There were some good things going on, a lot of young guys making some tough decisions for us. We are less than two weeks now from having to make all these really difficult decisions. It’s going to be a hard call and, hopefully, we’ll get a good look at those guys here the last two games.”


I hope the Texans find a roster spot for Tim Bulman even if it means releasing Anthony Weaver, seems more of a north south guy needed to pass rush in a 4-3 end.

Vinny
08-19-2008, 12:41 PM
I hope the Texans find a roster spot for Tim Bulman even if it means releasing Anthony Weaver, seems more of a north south guy needed to pass rush in a 4-3 end.

I'd rather have Bulman over the incredible disappearing lineman myself.

Goldensilence
08-19-2008, 01:27 PM
Personally I think its shock.


Wait you mean...we're blitzing? We're actually blitzing?!? Wait the Richard Smith I knew last year took at least the bulk of the early season and his head coach calling him out but this guy is attempting to blitz in pre-season!
:shocked

76Texan
08-19-2008, 03:12 PM
Valid points. However, they are points made after two pre-season games. Game 3 will be a better measuring stick. Moreover, one of the underlying themes for this team is that this is the first year where we have some depth in certain areas. Rotating fresh players who can make an impact with the playbook fully open into the 4th quarter is something to look for. The Texans D Line may close teams down in the later stages of the game.

Just opining aloud....I agree with KT completely.
Maybe not shutting down, but should show better results than last year.

On the positive note, the Aints were 0-3 in third down conversion until late in the first half, when Demeco was a fraction late to keep them at 0-4 in that department.

On another note, Bulman looked good in TC also.

thunderkyss
08-19-2008, 04:03 PM
On the positive note, the Aints were 0-3 in third down conversion until late in the first half, when Demeco was a fraction late to keep them at 0-4 in that department.



I liked that little bit of 'tude Demeco showed after that play.... we need more of that.