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Texan JBZ
08-18-2008, 01:07 PM
I just got finished watching the replay of the game on NFL Network. I focused primarily on the o-line and d-line to see what kind of problems the team was having stopping the run and running the ball. The one thing that stood out to me was how bad Amobi Okoye played. I mean, he flat out stunk. He had no burst off the ball, wasn't strong at the point of attack, was blown off the line of scrimmage several times, played too high, and showed absolutely no penetration. No motor at all!

I know most Texan fans have been spewing their venom towards Jacoby and Jacques, but Amobi should be thrown into the fray with them. He isn't playing good at all right now. After watching film from this game, I bet that Jethro and Richard Smith are all over him for his lack of effort. He sucked! Uugghhh:headhurts:

On the brighter side, Duane Brown looked absolutely outstanding. His skill set is awesome. He run blocks better than most are probably paying attention to. He handled the stunts and speed rushes he faced with ease in pass protection. Butler is looking really, really good too. The main problem I saw in the running game, especially early on, was that the line was giving up too much penetration, or the back simply was making the wrong cut. Sedrick Ellis had his way inside, which is a problem the team has to fix considering who we play in our division.

Overall solid game by the team as a whole. Diles continues to impress with his play. Walter..nuff said. Demps played good in run support. Slaton is looking like a steal. Really like H. Williams and Simmons effort. They are playing really hard.

And finally, if there's any doubt to it, Schaub quelled all his naysayers. He is the starting QB and for good reasons. BRING ON THE COWPATTIES! :texflag:

J-Russ
08-18-2008, 01:13 PM
This reminds me of the infamous Mario Williams thread last pre-season. "Mario Williams 0 0 0 0 0 0".

Texan JBZ
08-18-2008, 01:18 PM
This reminds me of the infamous Mario Williams thread last pre-season. "Mario Williams 0 0 0 0 0 0".


Watch the game again J-Russ. I want Amobi to a breakout season ala Mario. I'll say this-I never saw Mario not playing hard despite what others may have said about him. Amobi has not been playing hard these first two games.

Polo
08-18-2008, 01:51 PM
I didn't really pay attention to Amobi so I can't really comment on his play...

BUT...I doubt it's as bad as implied here...

I think Kubiak was quoted as saying Mario, Amobi and ND played the best as far as applying pressure...

Polo
08-18-2008, 02:14 PM
Kubiak:

I thought Amobi (Okoye) had his best outing in the preseason.

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=4520

Texan JBZ
08-18-2008, 02:44 PM
Kubiak:



http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=4520


I know Kubes is the coach, but from my observation of him on every play I watched (and I watched him on every defensive play), he stunk it up. Go and watch the game again for yourself. I stand firm on my statement of what I saw.

gtexan02
08-18-2008, 02:46 PM
I know Kubes is the coach, but from my observation of him on every play I watched (and I watched him on every defensive play), he stunk it up. Go and watch the game again for yourself. I stand firm on my statement of what I saw.

You don't know what Amobi was asked to do in any of those plays though. He may have been asked to take up defenders so Mario could bust through the line. He may have been asked to stunt or drop back into coverage or any number of things.

Just because you didn't see him bust through and sack Brees doesn't mean he didn't do exactly what the coaches wanted.

Texan JBZ
08-18-2008, 03:00 PM
You don't know what Amobi was asked to do in any of those plays though. He may have been asked to take up defenders so Mario could bust through the line. He may have been asked to stunt or drop back into coverage or any number of things.

Just because you didn't see him bust through and sack Brees doesn't mean he didn't do exactly what the coaches wanted.


Look people, I played MLB for an SEC program and for one of the top programs in D-1AA (they are now a D-1 program). I came out of high school playing MLB in a 3-4 system. I played in a 3-3-5 system at one college and a 4-3 Multiple at the other. I am very well-versed in defensive fronts, alignments, stunts, coverages, etc., because I had to be. I look at things different from the average football fan. I know on certain loop stunts that Amobi had outside contain that kept him from going after the QB. I saw that. They ran that stunt with him and Mario a couple of times during the game.

But, I also watched his pad level, his burst off the line, his strength at the point of attack when the Saints ran the ball at him. It was not good. He was consistently pushed off the ball and was a non-factor. I saw at least three times when they weren't running a stunt and Amobi had one man blocking him on pass protection. His man wore him out every time. I am not claiming to be an expert, but I know my stuff when it comes to football.

Texecutioner
08-18-2008, 03:07 PM
Look people, I played MLB for an SEC program and for one of the top programs in D-1AA (they are now a D-1 program). I came out of high school playing MLB in a 3-4 system. I played in a 3-3-5 system at one college and a 4-3 Multiple at the other. I am very well-versed in defensive fronts, alignments, stunts, coverages, etc., because I had to be. I look at things different from the average football fan. I know on certain loop stunts that Amobi had outside contain that kept him from going after the QB. I saw that. They ran that stunt with him and Mario a couple of times during the game.

But, I also watched his pad level, his burst off the line, his strength at the point of attack when the Saints ran the ball at him. It was not good. He was consistently pushed off the ball and was a non-factor. I saw at least three times when they weren't running a stunt and Amobi had one man blocking him on pass protection. His man wore him out every time. I am not claiming to be an expert, but I know my stuff when it comes to football.

Actually I thought it was a good post from the top, and thanks for posting the information to detail. I didn't watch Okoye much in the last game, so thanks for passing it on. I'm not to worried about Okoye though. I think that he'll be just fine once the season starts.

Didn't pay much attention to Brown either, and it's good to hear that he played really well.

And I totally agree with you on Shaub. He looked fantastic!

76Texan
08-18-2008, 04:00 PM
I watched the original game, the replay from channel 13, and the NFL replay.
And I did watch the line, but I have yet to review each play, so I really can't grade the linemen individually.

Overall, I agree that Okoye did not have a good game.
He had a few good moments and a few bad moments.

Except for Mario, none of the linemen caught my attention.

I also agree that this is not the time to worry about our starting D-line.

Even as I was very eager to find out whether a guy like Colvin had regained his quickness and his burst (I have not seen that. He looked a bit rusty), I have to remind myself that it's still too early.
Guys need time to round into playing shape. And that's what the pre-season is for.

dalemurphy
08-18-2008, 04:06 PM
I didn't really pay attention to Amobi so I can't really comment on his play...

BUT...I doubt it's as bad as implied here...

I think Kubiak was quoted as saying Mario, Amobi and ND played the best as far as applying pressure...



He said it was "amobi's best effort of the pre-season"... not really a ringing endorsement when there's only been 2 games and he only played 1 quarter in the first game.

wolf123
08-18-2008, 04:28 PM
People said the same thing about Mario even though kubiak kept telling people that he was playing well. Fans only react when they see huge sacks.

barrett
08-18-2008, 04:35 PM
This reminds me of the infamous Mario Williams thread last pre-season. "Mario Williams 0 0 0 0 0 0".

i remember specifically making a post similar to that one last year. something like "mario just doesn't seem explosive... i don't know...." lets hope that things continue to follow suit. man, i love it when i'm wrong.

Polo
08-18-2008, 04:47 PM
He said it was "amobi's best effort of the pre-season"... not really a ringing endorsement when there's only been 2 games and he only played 1 quarter in the first game.

Read into it how you may...

ChampionTexan
08-18-2008, 05:03 PM
1. Okoye had a very solid although not spectacular rookie year.
2. Kubes has indicated that Okoye had the best off-season of anyone on the team. To me that means the work ethic is there.
3. Items 1 & 2 should put us in a position to trust that Okoye will continue to progress and improve, unless and until something more than a couple of questionable preseason games causes us to doubt that.


Granted, Kubes has shown a clear desire to avoid throwing players under the bus, and I believe that's the absolute best position to have. But he's also shown that when he comes out and says positive things on an unsolicited basis (as in point #2), he's been pretty much spot-on with those comments.

dalemurphy
08-18-2008, 05:08 PM
Read into it how you may...

Not reading into anything. He simply said that of the 2 pre-season games, Amobi was better in the second than in the first... That's not a ringing endorsement, especially since he didn't make any plays in either game.

hadaad
08-18-2008, 05:09 PM
If it's just the preseason, I'm sure he'll round out when the games count. If it's a down-time, I have faith that he'll turn it around.

Go AMOBI!

Polo
08-18-2008, 05:14 PM
That's not a ringing endorsement, especially since he didn't make any plays in either game.

As I said read into it how you may...

Context clues do matter...

From the link posted earlier:

Looking individually, I thought Mario (Williams) was good in the game. I think Zac Diles continues to step forward. I thought Amobi (Okoye) had his best outing in the preseason. You go to the second group, N.D. Kalu continues to push for a spot on this team. He’s rushing the passer pretty well, he is the guy applying the pressure. (Tim) Bulman played pretty darn good, came back this week and played well.

He's listing players he thought played well....

Read into it how you want...

thunderkyss
08-19-2008, 11:43 AM
People said the same thing about Mario even though kubiak kept telling people that he was playing well. Fans only react when they see huge sacks.

I think it was totally different with Mario. You could see everything they talked about with Mario, in the preseason, and his whole rookie year. You could see his strength, you could see his burst, you could see his speed, you could see his effort, you could see his lack of technique.

IT was all there, and it was evident.

I don't think the game was ever too fast for Mario, a little over his head maybe.

Not hyping Okoye, or knocking him, just saying it's not the same.

Mailman
08-19-2008, 12:07 PM
I joined the 21st century last week and got a DVR. I have the game recorded so I can watch again and pay closer attention to individual players, but from what I saw when I watched the D line was a solid effort by the Saints offensive line. Mario was the only one getting any penetration. I think Amobi was just getting stoned by a strong interior.

With that line and the weapons Brees has around him, the Saints offense could be exceptional this season.

TheRealJoker
08-19-2008, 12:13 PM
I think it was totally different with Mario. You could see everything they talked about with Mario, in the preseason, and his whole rookie year. You could see his strength, you could see his burst, you could see his speed, you could see his effort, you could see his lack of technique.

IT was all there, and it was evident.

I don't think the game was ever too fast for Mario, a little over his head maybe.

Not hyping Okoye, or knocking him, just saying it's not the same.

+ 1

As soon as Mario came here you could tell he was a unique athlete that only a handful of guys could be mentioned in the same breath with as far as physical measurables. Throw in the work ethic, toughness, and the fact that he's coachable and you knew it wasn't a question of if it was a question of when he would flip the switch and become the player we'd hope he'd become.

Amobi on the other hand is a very good talent but he isn't on the same level as Mario as a rare breed of athlete. Plus he's young and he's a bit behind other players in the strength department which causes him to get pushed around at the line and is evident in run support. He SHOULD be caught up physically with another NFL offseason strength program or two under his belt but its not the same type of guarantee that we had with Mario.

That could also be why one guy was the 1st pick and one was the 10th pick. I'm a huge Amobi fan and hope he does well but him and Mario are two different caliber athletes. Some people think he'll make the same jump as Mario but that's just wishful thinking imo. I think he'll make strides this season but I dont think he'll be mentioned as one of the elite players at his position when the season ends. Just my opinion and I hope i'm wrong about that.

TexansLucky13
08-19-2008, 12:15 PM
I joined the 21st century last week and got a DVR. I have the game recorded so I can watch again and pay closer attention to individual players, but from what I saw when I watched the D line was a solid effort by the Saints offensive line. Mario was the only one getting any penetration. I think Amobi was just getting stoned by a strong interior.

With that line and the weapons Brees has around him, the Saints offense could be exceptional this season.

Agreed. I don't think people realize how good that Saints O-line actually is. That said, we play in a division with great lines, so there can be no excuses.

Vinny
08-19-2008, 12:26 PM
I think Okoye has some room to grow but I think some of you guys are being way too harsh on Okoye. DT's don't have glamorous jobs and their technique dictates whether they penetrate or hold up blockers or whatever...so it's hard to "grade" interior tackles by casually watching a few snaps in the preseason. Even the greatest interior tackles have a stalemate most of the time when the ball is snapped...one reason why 8 sacks in 16 games and hundreds of snaps is considered a great year for interior defensive tackles. That said, he has a long way to go still from what I can see but I'm not expecting Warren Sapp this year either. Okoye is still better in pursuit than he is when run straight at and it will probably take 2-3 years (from when he was drafted) before he is a credible run stopper.

Texan_Bill
08-19-2008, 12:33 PM
I think Okoye has some room to grow but I think some of you guys are being way too harsh on Okoye. DT's don't have glamorous jobs and their technique dictates whether they penetrate or hold up blockers or whatever...so it's hard to "grade" interior tackles by casually watching a few snaps in the preseason. Even the greatest interior tackles have a stalemate most of the time when the ball is snapped...one reason why 8 sacks in 16 games and hundreds of snaps is considered a great year for interior defensive tackles. That said, he has a long way to go still from what I can see but I'm not expecting Warren Sapp this year either. Okoye is still better in pursuit than he is when run straight at and it will probably take 2-3 years (from when he was drafted) before he is a credible run stopper.

agreed.....

To further the point about DT's.... Amobi was ranked by NFL.com as the 50th player for sacks (granted the list only went to 50) with 5.5 sacks. Anyway, there were only 7 DT's that had more than Okoye. The majority of those guys (DT's) were in the lower half of the 50...

Now, factor in:
a) him being a rookie last year
b) a young rookie at that
c) hitting the proverbial rookie wall, before getting his second breath

and I think you can conclude that he will be just fine.....

*EDIT*
Oooops..... add linkage: 2007 Sacks (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&statisticCategory=SACKS&season=2007&seasonType=REG&experience=null&tabSeq=0&qualified=true&Submit=Go)

Texan JBZ
08-19-2008, 01:18 PM
I think Okoye has some room to grow but I think some of you guys are being way too harsh on Okoye. DT's don't have glamorous jobs and their technique dictates whether they penetrate or hold up blockers or whatever...so it's hard to "grade" interior tackles by casually watching a few snaps in the preseason. Even the greatest interior tackles have a stalemate most of the time when the ball is snapped...one reason why 8 sacks in 16 games and hundreds of snaps is considered a great year for interior defensive tackles. That said, he has a long way to go still from what I can see but I'm not expecting Warren Sapp this year either. Okoye is still better in pursuit than he is when run straight at and it will probably take 2-3 years (from when he was drafted) before he is a credible run stopper.

Well then, what about Jacoby Jones? He is only in his second season and from what I've read, most fans are ready to kick him to the curb (which is absolutely ridiculous).:wacko:

And your right about a DT's technique. That was my whole issue with Amobi. He played with horrible technique. He wasn't stalemating anyone, he was getting pushed right off the line of scrimmage. Plus, I didn't casually watch the replay. I focused primarily on the d-line. The first thing that stood out to me was, "Man, come on Amobi! That guard is owning you!" And as far as the Saints having a good o-line-GTFOH. Let's compare running games: Saints vs Jags, Saints vs Titans, Saints vs Colts. Advantage: AFC South. Drew Brees is so efficient with his decision making that it makes it hard for defenses to get close to him. So he makes his o-line look a lot better than it really is.

Truth is, I want Amobi to considered one of the Top 5 DT's in the NFL after this season. I want to see him do great for the Texans because I BLEED BATTLE RED! He is going to have to pick it up though. He was picked 10th in the draft for a reason. He should start playing like it.

TheRealJoker
08-19-2008, 01:36 PM
"He was picked 10th in the draft for a reason. He should start playing like it."

Another way to look at is, "He was picked 10th in the draft for a reason. We should stop expecting him to perform on the same level as Mario."

Hagar
08-19-2008, 02:15 PM
This reminds me of the infamous Mario Williams thread last pre-season. "Mario Williams 0 0 0 0 0 0".
HOOOT DOG! One of my threads is now infamous - Sweet.

I've always been a Mario supporter but I have to admit, I was very worried in preseason and through the midway point of last season.

I haven't watched the DVR game yet, so we'll see. I will say this, the best angle to watch this type of football is from behind and most televised games only have the one angle.

I really wish they'd have a show on the NFL channel showing various angles of a play. Kind of a game tape thing.

Texan JBZ
08-25-2008, 09:33 AM
Looks like I wasn't the only one noticing how bad Amobi Okoye has been playing this preseason. This today from my main man LZ:

I remember reading Gary Kubiak's comments about Amobi Okoye playing well after the New Orleans game, but what I saw was a DT who got pushed around against the run just like last season. Against the Cowboys, it was more of the same for Okoye, Travis Jackson and Anthony Weaver.

And for those who think that Richard Smith and his scheme have nothing to do with some of the Texans defensive problems, he went on to say this:

I'm still waiting for the Texans to cut Okoye loose and let him shoot the gaps and be a disruptive player rather than a "block catcher" who gets moved around too easily. He isn't going to win too many physical battles so he has to be put in position to disruptive and play angles.

IMO, that's on the coach. RS needs to adjust what he wants to do to fit each players individual strengths or weaknesses. Yes, the players have their share of the responsibility to perform. But, they need to be put in the right position to maximize what they do best. Just a little more evidence that Richard Smith may not be the right man for the job.

Polo
08-25-2008, 09:38 AM
Because LZ said it doesn't make it true or right.

Texan JBZ
08-25-2008, 09:57 AM
Because LZ said it doesn't make it true or right.

No one said it was true or right. It's just an opinion. Just like yours and mine. I'm just basing mine off of what I saw out of Amobi. Just so happens that me and Lance are seeing the same thing.

gtexan02
08-25-2008, 09:58 AM
This person gave the game ball to Okoye, and said he was the best player on our defense against the Boys.

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52892

HOU-TEX
08-25-2008, 10:40 AM
I actually agree with him. I'm sure all of them had a good play here and there, but IMO, the Dline was *****-slapped from the beginning.

MW appeared to be the only one making an effort. The rest of them were playing patty cake. I'm assuming Colvin's going through the motions until the regular season. If not, he's done. I think I could do better off the edge than he has.

Weaver....Pffft! He's not even worth typing about.

Hagar
08-25-2008, 01:47 PM
I actually agree with him. I'm sure all of them had a good play here and there, but IMO, the Dline was *****-slapped from the beginning.

MW appeared to be the only one making an effort. The rest of them were playing patty cake. I'm assuming Colvin's going through the motions until the regular season. If not, he's done. I think I could do better off the edge than he has.

Weaver....Pffft! He's not even worth typing about.Sunday morning I watched all the defensive plays to the Cowboy game in slow motion. Given what I saw, this analysis is spot on. I will add that Omobi was at least making an effort but he's just not shaking the o-lineman and got pushed around all over the place. TJ, Weaver, and others were just going through the motions.

The defense is so vanilla its sad.

beerlover
08-25-2008, 01:56 PM
Looks like I wasn't the only one noticing how bad Amobi Okoye has been playing this preseason. This today from my main man LZ:

I remember reading Gary Kubiak's comments about Amobi Okoye playing well after the New Orleans game, but what I saw was a DT who got pushed around against the run just like last season. Against the Cowboys, it was more of the same for Okoye, Travis Jackson and Anthony Weaver.

And for those who think that Richard Smith and his scheme have nothing to do with some of the Texans defensive problems, he went on to say this:

I'm still waiting for the Texans to cut Okoye loose and let him shoot the gaps and be a disruptive player rather than a "block catcher" who gets moved around too easily. He isn't going to win too many physical battles so he has to be put in position to disruptive and play angles.

IMO, that's on the coach. RS needs to adjust what he wants to do to fit each players individual strengths or weaknesses. Yes, the players have their share of the responsibility to perform. But, they need to be put in the right position to maximize what they do best. Just a little more evidence that Richard Smith may not be the right man for the job.

who's travis jackson :confused:

barrett
08-25-2008, 02:14 PM
the quarterback for the vikings?

Texan JBZ
09-07-2008, 11:21 PM
The one thing that stood out to me was how bad Amobi Okoye played. I mean, he flat out stunk. He had no burst off the ball, wasn't strong at the point of attack, was blown off the line of scrimmage several times, played too high, and showed absolutely no penetration.

I caught a lot of flack from some of you guys about my assessment of Amobi in the preseason. But..I mean, I told you so. Hate to say it because we need him to be productive. Same thing I saw in the preseason with him is the same thing going on against the Steelers. Anybody care for some crow etoufee?

TexansLucky13
09-07-2008, 11:23 PM
I caught a lot of flack from some of you guys about my assessment of Amobi in the preseason. But..I mean, I told you so. Hate to say it because we need him to be productive. Same thing I saw in the preseason with him is the same thing going on against the Steelers. Anybody care for some crow etoufee?

Yea... and it was still just one game. Give me a whole season of lousy production (or lack thereof) and I will eat everyones crow, because I just don't see it.

Texan JBZ
09-07-2008, 11:29 PM
Yea... and it was still just one game.

Well..not really. This is more of a carry-over from last the latter part of last season, thru the preseason, and into the first game.

J-Russ
09-07-2008, 11:33 PM
Well..not really. This is more of a carry-over from last the latter part of last season, thru the preseason, and into the first game.

You means from his rookie wall to the first game in his sophomore's season? Ok, let's forget what he did the first half of his rookie season, let's forget he was the youngest player to ever be drafted, let's forget that DT is one of the hardest position for a college player to translate his game over in the pros.

Amobi is teh bust.

Jackie Chiles
09-07-2008, 11:35 PM
As hard as it will be for most to accept I have this to say about Amobi:
Get back to me when hes about 23 years old. Seriously, he flashes but the dude is so young anything he gives us now is icing on the cake imo. I'm not handing out free passes to anyone else on the team, we stunk today and it was a deflating loss but this guy will be fine.

Texan JBZ
09-07-2008, 11:38 PM
You means from his rookie wall to the first game in his sophomore's season? Ok, let's forget what he did the first half of his rookie season, let's forget he was the youngest player to ever be drafted, let's forget that DT is one of the hardest position for a college player to translate his game over in the pros.

Amobi is teh bust.

Never said he's a bust. Just saying that he's playing suck-ass football right now. What makes him immune from the same verbal beatdown that every other player that had a hand in that garbage effort? He needs to play A LOT better.

ReliantTexan
09-07-2008, 11:40 PM
I think some of the problems you're seeing with Amobi have just as much to do with Travis Johnson. I think Amobi needs a true NT to compliment him, TJ is undersized, and when he goes against power Lineman he gets gobbled up. He doesn't take up alot of blockers and this allows a lineman free to head up field to block the LB's. I look for Okam to get more playing time with the first team as the season progresses,and at some point become a starter for us.

kcdoubleeagle
09-07-2008, 11:44 PM
I think some of the problems you're seeing with Amobi have just as much to do with Travis Johnson. I think Amobi needs a true NT to compliment him, TJ is undersized, and when he goes against power Lineman he gets gobbled up. He doesn't take up alot of blockers and this allows a lineman free to head up field to block the LB's. I look for Okam to get more playing time with the first team as the season progresses,and at some point become a starter for us.

Hate to say this...but....I sure as hell hope we go after Fat Albert when his contract is up.......

Jackie Chiles
09-07-2008, 11:48 PM
Hate to say this...but....I sure as hell hope we go after Fat Albert when his contract is up.......

Hes like the Mario equivalent at DT, if the Titans somehow let him go that would be a huge victory but I really don't see how they can let him get away. (I know they can't franchise him etc. but seriously how can you let that guy get away?)

ReliantTexan
09-07-2008, 11:50 PM
Hate to say this...but....I sure as hell hope we go after Fat Albert when his contract is up.......
Even though I dislike him. That would be the best D-line in the NFL, easy.

Texan JBZ
09-08-2008, 12:02 AM
Hate to say this...but....I sure as hell hope we go after Fat Albert when his contract is up.......

Not "squeaky clean" enough for Bob O'Reilly

Specnatz
09-08-2008, 12:21 AM
I caught a lot of flack from some of you guys about my assessment of Amobi in the preseason. But..I mean, I told you so. Hate to say it because we need him to be productive. Same thing I saw in the preseason with him is the same thing going on against the Steelers. Anybody care for some crow etoufee?

It is not like the Texans ran one single stunt. Push up middle hope you get there your on your own type of D is not going to produce anything unless you are the one gifted super freak who can like Mario.

Yes he has room to grow but the D calling helped no one on the line. If it had Mario would have had 5 sacks today.

Texan JBZ
09-08-2008, 12:34 AM
It is not like the Texans ran one single stunt. Push up middle hope you get there your on your own type of D is not going to produce anything unless you are the one gifted super freak who can like Mario.

Yes he has room to grow but the D calling helped no one on the line. If it had Mario would have had 5 sacks today.

They ran the loop stunt with him and Mario more than a few times today. It was just ineffective because Amobi was getten driven too far outside. Man, is Amobi Okoye some sort of "Untouchable" because he is young? Some of you really take up for this guy. Last time I checked, he's a 1st rounder making a hell of a lot of money! He can get it from us fans (who at least expect him to show up on the stat sheet) just like every other player can. He doesn't have diplomatic immunity just because he's Nigerian dammit!

dalemurphy
09-08-2008, 12:37 AM
It is not like the Texans ran one single stunt. Push up middle hope you get there your on your own type of D is not going to produce anything unless you are the one gifted super freak who can like Mario.

Yes he has room to grow but the D calling helped no one on the line. If it had Mario would have had 5 sacks today.

You're right... Okoye does get pressure off of stunts. However, you can't run stunts all the time. Okoye main problem is he gets pushed around a lot in the run game. Sure it's understandable, but until he improves or he's rotated out on run downs his poor play will be exposed.

That being said, we've gotta fire Richard Smith! This isn't reactionary to getting our ass kicked. Offensively, we were simply manhandled up front... I get that. I don't see that particularly as a coaching problem. However, defensively, the opposing offense always seems to know exactly what we're doing. I don't think Tennessee has more good defensive players than we do. However, they sure get a heck of a lot more out of them: Haynesworth, Vandenbosch, Finnegan???, Bullock 2 years ago.... not that much.

Specnatz
09-08-2008, 12:51 AM
Myabe I need to rewatch the game (and I will) but what I saw was a stunt blocking after the first quarter. KT pointed out to me on one play where they just let Mario and others bring pressure so it would open up holes and running lanes. Thanks Richard for having the drop back in to pass coverage scheme working to a charm. After this being pointed out I saw it a few more times. If there was a stunt on (disguised) or a actual blitz it would have prevented big gains.

Carr Bombed
09-08-2008, 01:36 AM
I don't think Tennessee has more good defensive players than we do. However, they sure get a heck of a lot more out of them: Haynesworth, Vandenbosch, Finnegan???, Bullock 2 years ago.... not that much.

That's not really correct....Tennessee has just as many "star D players" as we do, but their other D players are very solid smart players.

With the texans it's all peaks and valleys.....either very good D players (Drob, DeMeco, Williams) or absolute crap (too many to mention).

Finnegan is a very good physical corner (Drob like)..Harper as a #2 is a hell of a lot better than Reeves. Griffin and Hope are better than anything we have ever had at the safety spots and David Throntonn is a better LB than anything that DeMeco has ever had playing next two him.........not to mention that unlike the Texans, Tenn actually has two beasts playing on their Dline (Vanden Bosch and Haynesworth).....with legit proven players, playing in position not out of position (unlike Weaver the crappy undersized DT) on the other side in Kearse.

I wouldn't be so quick to compare our defense to a top 5 defense (last year) despite the fact that they had a QB that put their defense in bad spots all year long (look what happens to our defense when put in bad spots).

Texan JBZ
09-08-2008, 01:42 AM
David Throntonn is a better LB than anything that DeMeco has ever had playing next two him

Not so fast my friend. Let's give Zac Diles a chance. He was stealthy but productive today. Morlon "Rass-cload" Greenwood is another story altogether. He stunk (again) today. Come on and get healthy Adibi.

HJam72
09-08-2008, 06:02 AM
I don't think Okoye did bad at all against the pass in the this game. He got some pressure, but Rothlisburger was releasing the ball awefully quick to be expecting DTs to get to him.

In the run game, he basically sucked, just like most of the D. Williams, Diles?, and maybe Bennet kept us from giving up 300 yds. rushing. I forgot Ryans, but even he had a slightly sub-par game for him (IMO), probably because Okoye can't handle being run right at AND WHAT EXACTLY IS TJ GOOD FOR, ANWAY?

ObsiWan
09-08-2008, 08:10 AM
Originally Posted by kcdoubleeagle http://home.austin.rr.com/khari/images/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=993234#post993234)
Hate to say this...but....I sure as hell hope we go after Fat Albert when his contract is up.......


Not "squeaky clean" enough for Bob O'Reilly

screw "squeeky clean"! this team needs an injection of attitude - several injections!
Haynesworth, or someone like him, needs to be brought in ASAP

dalemurphy
09-08-2008, 08:18 AM
That's not really correct....Tennessee has just as many "star D players" as we do, but their other D players are very solid smart players.

With the texans it's all peaks and valleys.....either very good D players (Drob, DeMeco, Williams) or absolute crap (too many to mention).

Finnegan is a very good physical corner (Drob like)..Harper as a #2 is a hell of a lot better than Reeves. Griffin and Hope are better than anything we have ever had at the safety spots and David Throntonn is a better LB than anything that DeMeco has ever had playing next two him.........not to mention that unlike the Texans, Tenn actually has two beasts playing on their Dline (Vanden Bosch and Haynesworth).....with legit proven players, playing in position not out of position (unlike Weaver the crappy undersized DT) on the other side in Kearse.

I wouldn't be so quick to compare our defense to a top 5 defense (last year) despite the fact that they had a QB that put their defense in bad spots all year long (look what happens to our defense when put in bad spots).

We have athletes at least as impressive as those mentioned. Of course guys like Finnegan, Thornton, Harper look and play much better than Bennett, Greenwood, C.C. Brown... My argument is that it's not primarily a talent issue. Our defensive staff isn't doing the job.

BattleRedToro
09-08-2008, 08:19 AM
Hate to say this...but....I sure as hell hope we go after Fat Albert when his contract is up.......

I doubt that the Texans can afford to add Haynesworth with the Salary Cap, but it sure would be a nice addition.

That, and a real DE opposite from Mario would make the line a terror for the opposing team.

Vinny
09-08-2008, 10:14 AM
I was generally unimpressed with Okoye and his game yesterday but I've been consistent with that POV in regard to his run defense so that isn't a knee jerk for the day. I did see him get a bit of penetration here and there but he was generally blocked easily or directed out of the way with ease on many run plays.

Honoring Earl 34
09-08-2008, 10:18 AM
I was generally unimpressed with Okoye and his game yesterday but I've been consistent with that POV in regard to his run defense so that isn't a knee jerk for the day. I did see him get a bit of penetration here and there but he was generally blocked easily or directed out of the way with ease on many run plays.

Did you see his potential as a pulling guard when he was leading the way for Demeco ?

TEXANRED
09-08-2008, 10:29 AM
I was generally unimpressed with Okoye and his game yesterday but I've been consistent with that POV in regard to his run defense so that isn't a knee jerk for the day. I did see him get a bit of penetration here and there but he was generally blocked easily or directed out of the way with ease on many run plays.

In all honesty AO was not brought in here to be a run stopper. He was brought in to apply pressure and help Mario. Now we need a NT to help AO cus Travis isn't helping anything but his bank account. I am hoping Okam can be brought up to speed to be that guy but he looked bad in preseason.

We just can't have two DT's who can't play the run.

Oh, and get rid of Weaver too.

gtexan02
09-08-2008, 10:34 AM
I was personally the most unimpressed with our LBs corp. A ton of arm tackling, which led to a lot of scoot around the edge maneuvers

HOU-TEX
09-08-2008, 10:58 AM
In all honesty AO was not brought in here to be a run stopper. He was brought in to apply pressure and help Mario. Now we need a NT to help AO cus Travis isn't helping anything but his bank account. I am hoping Okam can be brought up to speed to be that guy but he looked bad in preseason.

We just can't have two DT's who can't play the run.

Oh, and get rid of Weaver too.

TJ had a much better game against the run than Okoye did.

IMO, if Okoye wants to remain a starter he'll learn to stop the run. I understand he was a great pass rusher in College, but that is not his primary job. If he can't stop the run, get someone in there that can.

dickieb
09-09-2008, 05:28 PM
Can you imagine if the Viking would have taken Amobi with the pick just before us - then we would have gotten Adrian Peterson - oh so close! I hope you make me regret this post Amobi - do it!

leebigeztx
09-09-2008, 07:51 PM
Okoye isn't a problem spot, but I think what they ask of him is too much. Its like asking freeney to 2 gap. Okoye should be 1 gap penetrating. They shouldve signed a big 2 gapper like grady jackson and let him 2 gap in between Mario and Okoye. That gives Mario 1 guy to beat and okoye 1 man to beat. I think its just wrong utilization of players.

hadaad
09-09-2008, 07:58 PM
They have that big man but he's not starting. Or active. Or, really, anything.

Vinny
09-09-2008, 08:01 PM
Can you imagine if the Viking would have taken Amobi with the pick just before us - then we would have gotten Adrian Peterson - oh so close! I hope you make me regret this post Amobi - do it!well, Atlanta and Miami would have either taken Peterson or traded the pick but we weren't right behind Minnesota in any case..... Darrelle Revis, Patrick Willis or Lawrence Timmons were 3 very stout defenders they passed on to pick Okoye.

7 Minnesota Adrian Peterson - RB
8 Atlanta Jamaal Anderson - DE
9 Miami Ted Ginn, Jr. - WR
10 Houston Amobi Okoye - DT
11 San Francisco Patrick Willis - LB
12 Buffalo Marshawn Lynch - RB
13 St. Louis Adam Carriker - DE
14 NY Jets Darrelle Revis
15 Pittsburgh Lawrence Timmons - LB

b0ng
09-09-2008, 08:03 PM
TJ had a much better game against the run than Okoye did.

IMO, if Okoye wants to remain a starter he'll learn to stop the run. I understand he was a great pass rusher in College, but that is not his primary job. If he can't stop the run, get someone in there that can.

Honestly, TJ and Okoye are supposed to be the same kind of player. An undersized 1-Technique defensive tackle that is supposed to shoot the gap, and head upfield to get the QB. TJ is seriously miscast in his role as a run stopping DT, because that's not what he is. He is entirely too small to be playing NT in a 4-3. Same with Okoye. Okoye has shown MUCH more as a DT pass rusher than Travis Johnson ever has.

Now I think that if I had to get rid of one of these two players, or sentence one of them to the depth chart, then TJ would be going down, but only because in 4 years, TJ really hasn't shown the work ethic or the talent to really stick around on this team. Okoye, is more of an unknown, but I think pretty much Okoye's rookie season showed more production than any season TJ has had.

Yes Okoye needs to step it up and play better, but you're talking about a 2nd year interior defensive lineman. Hell, even Fat Albert, which is universally despised and wanted, didn't start blowing people up until his 4th year, and that was a contract year! I think that this is going to be a dead horse argument (Like TJ has been for the past few years) because the coaching staff is going to give him his entire rookie contract to prove that he's not just a pile of shit that any street FA could take over for (Anthony Maddox). I think Okam is going to probably not be on the inactive list for Baltimore, but, he probably won't play many if any snaps during the game. If Okoye is too new, that guy is waaaaay too new.

Vinny
09-09-2008, 08:06 PM
Yes Okoye needs to step it up and play better, but you're talking about a 2nd year interior defensive lineman. Hell, even Fat Albert, which is universally despised and wanted, didn't start blowing people up until his 4th year, and that was a contract year!
Hainsworth played very well at times before last season. He just became more consistent last year. He was already a difference maker....just not consistent. Okoye needs to prove he can be a difference maker let alone a consistent one.

gtexan02
09-09-2008, 08:08 PM
Hainsworth played very well at times before last season. He just became more consistent last year. He was already a difference maker....just not consistent. Okoye needs to prove he can be a difference maker let alone a consistent one.

Getting 5 sacks as a rookie alread proved he can be a difference maker, if not consistently.

Vinny
09-09-2008, 08:11 PM
Getting 5 sacks as a rookie alread proved he can be a difference maker, if not consistently.that doesn't tell you he is consistent as a dt...it tells you he had 5 sacks and had at least one-dimensional upside at worst. Watching him play tells me he gets blocked and redirected easily and only really flashes when the ball is run away from him and he shows his speed in pursuit.

b0ng
09-09-2008, 08:47 PM
Hainsworth played very well at times before last season. He just became more consistent last year. He was already a difference maker....just not consistent. Okoye needs to prove he can be a difference maker let alone a consistent one.

I think there are a lot of people who will contend that Haynesworth's on/off play and his penchant for getting really really dumbass suspensions really did not leave any fan of Haynesworth with a great idea of how good he could be up until last year.

I think Amobi really has a long leash because everybody thinks that it takes a little time for DT's to rule their opposition, much like most offensive linemen take a little while as well*

*Joe Thomas need not apply.

awtysst
09-09-2008, 09:19 PM
much like most offensive linemen take a little while as well*

*Joe Thomas need not apply.

You can add Marcus McNeil to that list as well.

dickieb
09-09-2008, 10:40 PM
well, Atlanta and Miami would have either taken Peterson or traded the pick but we weren't right behind Minnesota in any case..... Darrelle Revis, Patrick Willis or Lawrence Timmons were 3 very stout defenders they passed on to pick Okoye.

7 Minnesota Adrian Peterson - RB
8 Atlanta Jamaal Anderson - DE
9 Miami Ted Ginn, Jr. - WR
10 Houston Amobi Okoye - DT
11 San Francisco Patrick Willis - LB
12 Buffalo Marshawn Lynch - RB
13 St. Louis Adam Carriker - DE
14 NY Jets Darrelle Revis
15 Pittsburgh Lawrence Timmons - LB

That's right - my bad. I remember at the time thinking we had the 8th pick but we swapped first rounders with atlanta for schaub.

ObsiWan
09-09-2008, 10:50 PM
well, Atlanta and Miami would have either taken Peterson or traded the pick but we weren't right behind Minnesota in any case..... Darrelle Revis, Patrick Willis or Lawrence Timmons were 3 very stout defenders they passed on to pick Okoye.

7 Minnesota Adrian Peterson - RB
8 Atlanta Jamaal Anderson - DE
9 Miami Ted Ginn, Jr. - WR
10 Houston Amobi Okoye - DT
11 San Francisco Patrick Willis - LB
12 Buffalo Marshawn Lynch - RB
13 St. Louis Adam Carriker - DE
14 NY Jets Darrelle Revis
15 Pittsburgh Lawrence Timmons - LB

quite a few people wanted Willis over Okoye. I thought we needed Revis myself since DeMeco turned out so well and DB was still an issue; but I wasn't disappointed in the Okoye pick.

edo783
09-09-2008, 10:51 PM
We also need to remember that the kid is really young. At his age I think most guys are still juniors in college. He is still growing into being a man. If he is still being pushed around at age 24, then we probably have a problem.

ObsiWan
09-09-2008, 10:54 PM
We also need to remember that the kid is really young. At his age I think most guys are still juniors in college. He is still growing into being a man. If he is still being pushed around at age 24, then we probably have a problem.

so we wait three more years for him to maybe develop into Warren Sapp?

The1ApplePie
09-09-2008, 10:55 PM
Well at least we didn't take Jamal Anderson

Willis, Timmons, Beason, Revis would have all be good players at the spot

HJam72
09-09-2008, 11:01 PM
Honestly, TJ and Okoye are supposed to be the same kind of player. An undersized 1-Technique defensive tackle that is supposed to shoot the gap, and head upfield to get the QB. TJ is seriously miscast in his role as a run stopping DT, because that's not what he is. He is entirely too small to be playing NT in a 4-3. Same with Okoye. Okoye has shown MUCH more as a DT pass rusher than Travis Johnson ever has.

Now I think that if I had to get rid of one of these two players, or sentence one of them to the depth chart, then TJ would be going down, but only because in 4 years, TJ really hasn't shown the work ethic or the talent to really stick around on this team. Okoye, is more of an unknown, but I think pretty much Okoye's rookie season showed more production than any season TJ has had.

Yes Okoye needs to step it up and play better, but you're talking about a 2nd year interior defensive lineman. Hell, even Fat Albert, which is universally despised and wanted, didn't start blowing people up until his 4th year, and that was a contract year! I think that this is going to be a dead horse argument (Like TJ has been for the past few years) because the coaching staff is going to give him his entire rookie contract to prove that he's not just a pile of shit that any street FA could take over for (Anthony Maddox). I think Okam is going to probably not be on the inactive list for Baltimore, but, he probably won't play many if any snaps during the game. If Okoye is too new, that guy is waaaaay too new.

Well, there's a freaking problem then. How long will this franchise continue to pull bone-headed crap like that and get shoved around on both sides of the line? Why hasn't this problem been addressed? If Okam is the answer, why is his big butt on the sideline?

leebigeztx
09-10-2008, 12:48 AM
I think iif they let him 1 gap, he would be ok. If they asked sapp to 2 ggap like sam adams, he wouldn't be a future hof.

RipTraxx
09-10-2008, 03:32 AM
Well at least we didn't take Jamal Anderson

Willis, Timmons, Beason, Revis would have all be good players at the spot

Willis had my vote. Maybe still does.....