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View Full Version : Butler and Williiams (Harry) = Brightest spots so far?


Errant Hothy
08-18-2008, 10:06 AM
http://blogs.chron.com/sportsjustice/archives/2008/08/steve_slaton_ha.html

Kubiak also praised WR Harry Williams, calling him ''the ultimate bright spot on special teams.'' Those words should be a wakeup call for Jacoby Jones.

''(Williams is) making a big push for us to find a roster spot for him on this team just by how well he's playing on special teams,'' Kubiak said.

The Texans were planning on carrying five receivers--Andre Johnson, Kevin Walter, Andre Davis, Jacoby Jones and David Anderson--but Williams is pushing hard.

''The way he's playing right now we have to look real hard at keeping six because he's the best guy we've got on the field right now when we are in special teams mode,'' Kubiak said. ''That's a third of the game and the way he's playing, he's going to make us keep six, or if we keep five then somebody is in trouble."

OT Rashad Butler got the highest grades in the O-line, and the more he plays, the more he looks like an absolutely steal. He was a 2006 third-round pick of the Panthers who was waived after a staph infection sidelined him pretty much his entire rookie season. With Charles Spencer gone and Ephraim Salaam injured, Butler may have found the perfect situation.

I'm glad for Butler. I was really happy when we signed him last year, and after a year to get healthy and the coaching of Gibbs it seems if he has really come into his own here.

As we have all figured out by now, Jacoby is now in a fight for his roster spot.

TheRealJoker
08-18-2008, 10:15 AM
Butler is making me think we need to try him out at OG. He's playing like one of our 5 best OL but he wont beat out Brown or Winston. Wouldn't hurt in game 4 of the preseason to see if his play drops off when he changes position. If for nothing more than to see how versatile he really is :)

wolf123
08-18-2008, 10:16 AM
Butler was a huge pickup and I'm glad the texans medical staff was able to do what the panthers couldn't! :doot:

nunusguy
08-18-2008, 10:54 AM
By saying Williams may force him to keep 6 WRs, Kubiak has tipped his hand about JJ by saying in effect no matter how bad he continues to screw-up this preseason he's made the team.
On Butler, this makes Efram totally expendable because like him, Butler can play both RT & LT making him the all-important swing player for those positions that the Texans need to suit-up for game-day in the event one of the OT starters is injured in the game.

dalemurphy
08-18-2008, 10:58 AM
By saying Williams may force him to keep 6 WRs, Kubiak has tipped his hand about JJ by saying in effect no matter how bad he continues to screw-up this preseason he's made the team.
On Butler, this makes Efram totally expendable because like him, Butler can play both RT & LT making him the all-important swing player for those positions that the Texans need to suit-up for game-day in the event one of the OT starters is injured in the game.


First, Kubiak said "someone is in trouble if we only keep 5", which indicates there is a debate about whether to hang on to JJ- nobody else is going anywhere.

Second, with the amount of abuse I've taken on these boards I have to show a lack of class regarding Butler-Salaam... I TOLD YOU SO!

Polo
08-18-2008, 11:09 AM
First, Kubiak said "someone is in trouble if we only keep 5", which indicates there is a debate about whether to hang on to JJ- nobody else is going anywhere.

With the way your taking this statement it would imply that Harry Williams is currently ahead of JJ for the 5th WR spot.

I don't think that's the case. He wouldn't be talking about Harry Williams making a strong case to keep six...Instead he'd be talking about how JJ needs to step up to convince him to keep six...

That someone who is in trouble would be Harry Williams if we only carried 5. I think we'll keep 6 though.

gtexan02
08-18-2008, 12:08 PM
Based on his 3rd round pick status, and the fact that everyone considered him to be a project WR with a big upside, I think we keep JJ

Ole Miss Texan
08-18-2008, 12:58 PM
Based on his 3rd round pick status, and the fact that everyone considered him to be a project WR with a big upside, I think we keep JJ

Those are my thoughts as well. We knew when we selected him he was completely raw, and for a WR to make the transition into the nfl, I would give them 2-3 years. Now, that's not to say that the Texans aren't allowed to say we'd rather move on without him and have better options. I just think we need to give Jacoby another year to learn.

His problem has been hanging on to the ball. I was a big fan when we selected him, but the way he runs with the ball is a huge concern for me. He swings his arms out widely instead of keeping to ball close in. As a WR, he's got the talent to be on this team- he gets open, has great size, can leap and catch the ball. As far as a PR... maybe Anderson starts getting more touches. I will say if they keep Jacoby back there fielding punts all preseason, it means they havn't given up on him back there and are working on getting those kinds worked out.

Butler has been an awesome suprise, and I have noticed Harry on a lot of ST tackles. I really like a lot of these players we've got.

ChampionTexan
08-18-2008, 01:11 PM
First, Kubiak said "someone is in trouble if we only keep 5", which indicates there is a debate about whether to hang on to JJ- nobody else is going anywhere.

Second, with the amount of abuse I've taken on these boards I have to show a lack of class regarding Butler-Salaam... I TOLD YOU SO!

What a crock!

While there has been minor dispute about Butler, the vast majority of the abuse you've been given has been related to the Salaam being waived prediction. I challenge you to dig up one of your posts from the last few weeks where the prediction of Butler making the roster isn't also accompanied by the prediction of Salaam not making it. You're "I TOLD YOU SO" is at best premature, and at worst completely inaccurate!

Hooston Texan
08-18-2008, 01:26 PM
I don't think that Jones is in trouble because of his WR play (of course, I'm guessing here since I'm not privy to what's going on in practice). Yes, he is not polished, but the idea was to let him learn while contributing on special teams. Basically, he's an apprentice--they guy who cleans the trash cans while learning the ropes from everyone else. And, by cleaning trash cans, I mean returning punts.

Problem is that he's not holding up his end of the bargain. Two punt-return fumbles in two games as a result of breaking two of the three cardinal rules of punt returns: 1. Before you do anything else, catch and secure the football. 2. Once #1 is accomplished, go straight up the field. Then, he managed to break the third cardinal rule: field every catchable punt that is going to land anywhere beyond your own 8-yard-line. Because Jacoby was too scared or clueless to field the Saints' last punt, Alex Brink's professional debut came on his own 3. And that's giving him a pass for the botched exchange with Brink.

Our team is still a work-in-progress, but we don't have the luxury of letting guys take multiple years to learn their positions. I'm fine with letting Jones evolve at WR if he is contributing as he's capable (and he's clearly capable) on special teams. However, it's not like he's a once-in-a-blue-moon physical talent--if he's not helping us where he needs to, let's get someone who can.

We've had such a good run of draft picks starting in 2006 that I won't lose any sleep (or, more pertinently, respect for Rick Smith) if we have to cut our second pick of the 2007 draft. That said, I hope this is a wake-up call for Jacoby. The kid's got upside, but not the kind of upside that's worth wasting an unearned roster spot on.

Hooston Texan
08-18-2008, 01:41 PM
Butler is making me think we need to try him out at OG. He's playing like one of our 5 best OL but he wont beat out Brown or Winston. Wouldn't hurt in game 4 of the preseason to see if his play drops off when he changes position. If for nothing more than to see how versatile he really is :)

Even without Weary, I'm OK with our guards. I'm not OK with being thin at OT. The next season the Texans begin with solid depth at OT will be their first. If Butler is good enough to be a competent backup OT, leave him there! He may make more money in his career as a solid backup OT than he would if he was a decent starting guard.

dalemurphy
08-18-2008, 02:26 PM
What a crock!

While there has been minor dispute about Butler, the vast majority of the abuse you've been given has been related to the Salaam being waived prediction. I challenge you to dig up one of your posts from the last few weeks where the prediction of Butler making the roster isn't also accompanied by the prediction of Salaam not making it. You're "I TOLD YOU SO" is at best premature, and at worst completely inaccurate!

Well, certainly it's premature. However, I've been consistant in saying that I think Butler passes Salaam as the swing tackle (certainly he has) and that the youth, potential, and versatility of Frye will mean that Salaam won't make the team if we only keep 9 linemen. With the Weary injury that becomes a lock. At guard, we will need someone after Pitts, Briesel, and Studdard... that person will almost definitely be Frye, who has proven able to play RT as well. So, unless you think the team considers Winston or Brown as an option to move inside if injuries strike and place Salaam at tackle... Salaam is the odd man out with a 9 man OL.

dalemurphy
08-18-2008, 02:28 PM
With the way your taking this statement it would imply that Harry Williams is currently ahead of JJ for the 5th WR spot.

I don't think that's the case. He wouldn't be talking about Harry Williams making a strong case to keep six...Instead he'd be talking about how JJ needs to step up to convince him to keep six...

That someone who is in trouble would be Harry Williams if we only carried 5. I think we'll keep 6 though.


I'm just quoting Kubiak. He said Williams is going to make them keep 6 WRs if his play continues or "somebody is in trouble"... That somebody sure isn't AJ, AD, KW, or DA.

CloakNNNdagger
08-18-2008, 02:52 PM
By saying Williams may force him to keep 6 WRs, Kubiak has tipped his hand about JJ by saying in effect no matter how bad he continues to screw-up this preseason he's made the team.
On Butler, this makes Efram totally expendable because like him, Butler can play both RT & LT making him the all-important swing player for those positions that the Texans need to suit-up for game-day in the event one of the OT starters is injured in the game.


I doubt that Efram goes anywhere. He is a "proven" entity if not only as a backup. Anything can happen, but I don't see him being "expended." [how do you like that as a word??:tinfoil:]

dalemurphy
08-18-2008, 03:09 PM
I doubt that Efram goes anywhere. He is a "proven" entity if not only as a backup. Anything can happen, but I don't see him being "expended." [how do you like that as a word??:tinfoil:]

show me a 9 man OL that includes Salaam. I don't see how it can happen without a serious injury to Winston, Brown, or Butler.

I think the OL has to be:

Winston
Brown
Butler

Myers
White

Frye (tackle and guard)
Briesel
Studdard
Pitts


where am I wrong?

ChampionTexan
08-18-2008, 03:21 PM
show me a 9 man OL that includes Salaam. I don't see how it can happen without a serious injury to Winston, Brown, or Butler.

I think the OL has to be:

Winston
Brown
Butler

Myers
White

Frye (tackle and guard)
Briesel
Studdard
Pitts


where am I wrong?

You said even if we kept 10, you didn't see Salaam making the team. The majority response simply said Salaam would be on the 53 man roster, and didn't reference how many OLinemen would be kept.

barrett
08-18-2008, 03:27 PM
admittedly, he did tell me so. i remember it specifically.

76Texan
08-18-2008, 03:38 PM
It seems that Kubiak wants to groom Butler for the swing tackle position.

But I'm not ready to declare that Butler has been one of the brightest spots so far. His play at LT is still questionable, but he does look good at RT.
Again, we have to take into account the fact that he did not run with the first team.

Chris White should stay at Guard, IMO.

We are still very thin at the backup C position.
I'm still waiting for somebody to emerge.

dalemurphy
08-18-2008, 03:57 PM
It seems that Kubiak wants to groom Butler for the swing tackle position.

But I'm not ready to declare that Butler has been one of the brightest spots so far. His play at LT is still questionable, but he does look good at RT.
Again, we have to take into account the fact that he did not run with the first team.

Chris White should stay at Guard, IMO.

We are still very thin at the backup C position.
I'm still waiting for somebody to emerge.


No offense, but you don't know what you're talking about. Butler has played almost exclusively at LT this preseason, with the exception of the 2nd quarter of game one. And, he's been excellent


Who are you waiting for to emerge at Center- White is our backup and the only other guy is Eslinger- and he STINKS!

dalemurphy
08-18-2008, 04:01 PM
You said even if we kept 10, you didn't see Salaam making the team. The majority response simply said Salaam would be on the 53 man roster, and didn't reference how many OLinemen would be kept.

Not true. I didn't want Salaam to make the team even if we kept 10. I was hoping that Weary would be the 10th. However, I always thought it possible that Salaam could make the team as a 10th player- though I doubt it will happen.

First, it's unlikely that we carry 10 given the depth at positions like WR, CB, S, RB... Second, Salaam wouldn't even be on the active roster barring a significant injury problem on the OL, so Salaam would likely request being waived- which I'm sure Kubiak would grant.... I sure would!

ChampionTexan
08-18-2008, 04:12 PM
Not true. I didn't want Salaam to make the team even if we kept 10. I was hoping that Weary would be the 10th. However, I always thought it possible that Salaam could make the team as a 10th player- though I doubt it will happen.

First, it's unlikely that we carry 10 given the depth at positions like WR, CB, S, RB... Second, Salaam wouldn't even be on the active roster barring a significant injury problem on the OL, so Salaam would likely request being waived- which I'm sure Kubiak would grant.... I sure would!

And as I said before, everything you're assuming is still at best premature.

Until Salaam is waived or put on the 53 man roster, there's no way to say who's right and who's not. Say all the I told you so's that you want, but I'll let things shake out over the next 2-3 weeks.

76Texan
08-18-2008, 04:17 PM
No offense, but you don't know what you're talking about. Butler has played almost exclusively at LT this preseason, with the exception of the 2nd quarter of game one. And, he's been excellent


Who are you waiting for to emerge at Center- White is our backup and the only other guy is Eslinger- and he STINKS!
Tis the first time I heard of exclusive with exception! http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon12.gif

Now, I may be wrong, but I think I saw #78 at times on the right side in the Saints game. Can you do me a favor and go back and check it for me, thank you!

I understand that as of right now, White could get the backup role at C. I have always like his motor (I even said so during TC the year before), but IMHO, I think he can be more effective at G.

Also, I like Myer's play at G more than at C for the Broncos last year.
Dosn't mean that Kubiak will put him at G.

If White emerges at C, then I will feel better for the Texans. I have no problem with that!

Ole Miss Texan
08-18-2008, 04:47 PM
I understand that as of right now, White could get the backup role at C. I have always like his motor (I even said so during TC the year before), but IMHO, I think he can be more effective at G.

Also, I like Myer's play at G more than at C for the Broncos last year.
Dosn't mean that Kubiak will put him at G.

If White emerges at C, then I will feel better for the Texans. I have no problem with that!

I've been thinking about this (Myers at G), I wasn't terribly impressed with CM at C during the 1st game but thought he picked it up a little (along with all the other OL against the saints). I think we'll still be looking at C/G combo type of guys and when one really establishes themselves at C, it'll be all the better. I know right now we're thinking that Myers is that guy, and hope he ends up being that. The relationship between the C and QB is vitally important.

dalemurphy
08-18-2008, 04:52 PM
Tis the first time I heard of exclusive with exception! http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon12.gif

Now, I may be wrong, but I think I saw #78 at times on the right side in the Saints game. Can you do me a favor and go back and check it for me, thank you!

I understand that as of right now, White could get the backup role at C. I have always like his motor (I even said so during TC the year before), but IMHO, I think he can be more effective at G.

Also, I like Myer's play at G more than at C for the Broncos last year.
Dosn't mean that Kubiak will put him at G.

If White emerges at C, then I will feel better for the Texans. I have no problem with that!

I don't think I was clear: White is the backup Center. Eslinger won't make the team. If we have seven active Olmen, it's likely that White would backup at C and G while Butler would be the swing.

Regarding Butler: he played LT every down after Brown went out in the N.O game. Frye, #75, played RT every down.

In the Denver game, Butler played RT for the second quarter, then Butler played LT the final two quarters and Frye played RT the final two quarters with one exception... Butler came out for one play early in the 4th with a limp and Frye moved to Lt for the one play, they switched back a play later.

thunderkyss
08-19-2008, 09:07 AM
And as I said before, everything you're assuming is still at best premature.

Until Salaam is waived or put on the 53 man roster, there's no way to say who's right and who's not. Say all the I told you so's that you want, but I'll let things shake out over the next 2-3 weeks.

Pre-mature... yes, but Kubiak has no problem putting young guys in key positions, even if that means he knows we'll struggle at times. He started Spencer & Brown(at least I think he'll start Brown in teh regular season) as rookies, and move Salaam to the bench.

I have no doubt, that Butler will be our swing tackle, and Ephraim will be waived.

I'm a big Ephraim fan, but the wrighting is on the wall.

Totally off subject, but I don't see Briesel making the team. I'd much rather see White moved to the first team. I know we'll struggle at times, but I think in the long run, it'll work out better for us.

thunderkyss
08-19-2008, 09:10 AM
Also, I like Myer's play at G more than at C for the Broncos last year.
Dosn't mean that Kubiak will put him at G.

If White emerges at C, then I will feel better for the Texans. I have no problem with that!

I could go with that as well.


Butler did play a lot at RT against the Saints. I think he was our best run blocker from either side, on the second team. Pass protection.... he isn't going to crack the starting line-up, but definitely serviceable.