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Hervoyel
08-16-2008, 11:41 PM
I'm no longer going to bother dignifying "Sage should start" posts with a response. The difference between the two guys is like night and day and the people who can't see that aren't really people whose opinions on the game I value. There's nothing wrong with Sage but if you think he should start over Matt then I don't think you know what you're talking about.

Jacoby Jones doesn't really need to make this football team. There's nothing particularly special about him and I think the Texans are starting to figure that out. He had an exciting preseason last year but he was a guy playing above his head and that's obvious now. Today he's an unfocused liability with speed and that makes him Jerome Mathis with a better disposition. Barring a sudden attack of maturity he's not worth a roster spot.

Jacques Reeves sure is living down to his billing as "toast". After watching him in two games I'm starting to think that if we're going to have to watch a corner get burned a bunch of times then we might as well throw Molden out there and let him get the experience. He'll get good sooner than Reeves will I suspect and according to Richard Smith (via a conversation Bob Allen spoke of) he doesn't get down himself when he gets beat but comes back over and over again. In a Richard Smith defense that's a valuable attribute because with the kind of pressure we usually bring (and have brought in two straight preseason games) our corners should get beaten regularly.

I was not thrilled with the running game (again) but I think Slaton looked ok. I wasn't impressed with anyone else and wonder if Taylor will even make the team. He looks a step behind everyone and very hesitant to me (and then every few plays he blows up for no apparent reason). I think the year off with the injury really hurt whatever progress he had made. Brown wasn't impressive at all and looked like a guy who we've signed one season too late. Watching them interview Ahman Green and hearing him say "I don't know when I'll be back" was some infuriation stuff. I just don't want to see him again until he's lined up behind Schaub and ready to work. I can accept that we're going to have to watch this crap play out again this year but I don't want to have to listen to him hem and haw about how he's feeling or when he'll return. He's not that good an interview to begin with. No need to drag him out every preseason game and speculate about when he'll not have a pull/bruise/bo-bo/owie and be ready to go.

TexansLucky13
08-16-2008, 11:49 PM
I agree about Matt. If he can stay healthy, he will bring us the Lombardi.... eventually. Our passing attack is shaping up to be one of the top five in the league IMO.

I hope Jacoby finds a way to stay on the team (by holding onto the ball, and in general just playing better). I just don't know how he could do that if he continues to struggle, especially with Anderson's play.

Slaton did very well.... I even saw him making some good blocks in this game. If he continues to improve he will see a good number of touches this season.

TheRealJoker
08-16-2008, 11:52 PM
Duane Brow is going to cause this passing game to jump to elite status. It was so nice to get to see Schaub not have to worry about his blindside and see him pick apart the Saints defense all game long.

If Slaton can return punts Jacoby better kick it into overdrive because he'll have to fight for every inch to keep his spot on the team. If Slaton returns punts I doubt he suits up on Sundays if he makes the team.

hollywood_texan
08-16-2008, 11:56 PM
I'm no longer going to bother dignifying "Sage should start" posts with a response.

Interesting.

Looking forward to watching the game later this week since I am in LA and couldn't see it live.

I thought Schaub's wasn't that special against the Broncos last week and I was getting a little concerned.

Sounds like a good news though...

TexanSam
08-16-2008, 11:59 PM
I'm not ready to completely dismiss our entire running game besides Slaton. I want to see how the backs do when our cut block scheme is finally down smooth.

TexansLucky13
08-17-2008, 12:00 AM
Interesting.

Looking forward to watching the game later this week since I am in LA and couldn't see it live.

I thought Schaub's wasn't that special against the Broncos last week and I was getting a little concerned.

Sounds like a good news though...

Schaub did just fine against the Broncos, except for when he tried to force it in the red zone. If that had been intercepted (which it probably should have), it would have been 6 for Denver.

That said, he was right on the dot tonight. The guy is a winner.

Hookem Horns
08-17-2008, 12:04 AM
Interesting.

Looking forward to watching the game later this week since I am in LA and couldn't see it live.

I thought Schaub's wasn't that special against the Broncos last week and I was getting a little concerned.

Sounds like a good news though...

Schaub looked a 100 times better tonight than he did vs the Broncos. He also had a little more playing time.

J-Russ
08-17-2008, 12:08 AM
Interesting.

Looking forward to watching the game later this week since I am in LA and couldn't see it live.

I thought Schaub's wasn't that special against the Broncos last week and I was getting a little concerned.

Sounds like a good news though...

You gotta keep in mind that he targeted the left field like 90% of the time, which was Jason David side. Jason David....he's the equivalent to Jacques Reeves or even Demarcus Faggins. Next week should be a big test for Schuab though. He's going to go against Hamlin, Newman, Pacman, Henry, and rookie 1st round pick, Jenkins.

Hervoyel
08-17-2008, 12:08 AM
Yeah and he seemed to get better as he got more settled in. I think he might just really be special. Can't be sure at this point but it's nice to see some signs that point to good things.

I'd like to add one more thing to my first post. Morlon Greenwood is done here. He'll stick around because we're not deep there but he just seems like he's crossed the Jamie Sharper/Jay Foreman barrier and looks a step slower and a little less aware of what's going on around him than he was last season. I've always felt that he was grossly over paid by the last regime but I also always said that at least he could play unlike some of the other free agents Charlie Casserly dug up. At times he even looks good. I think this season he's going to be a huge liability on his side and by the end of the year we're going to cussing him regularly (those of us who aren't already doing that I mean).

Carr Bombed
08-17-2008, 12:18 AM
Our run defense has been craptastic. Kubes better get that fixed or this team is easily going to go 1-5 in the division again (or worse....Tenn and Jax are two of the best rushing teams in the leauge).

TheRealJoker
08-17-2008, 12:19 AM
Yeah and he seemed to get better as he got more settled in. I think he might just really be special. Can't be sure at this point but it's nice to see some signs that point to good things.

I'd like to add one more thing to my first post. Morlon Greenwood is done here. He'll stick around because we're not deep there but he just seems like he's crossed the Jamie Sharper/Jay Foreman barrier and looks a step slower and a little less aware of what's going on around him than he was last season. I've always felt that he was grossly over paid by the last regime but I also always said that at least he could play unlike some of the other free agents Charlie Casserly dug up. At times he even looks good. I think this season he's going to be a huge liability on his side and by the end of the year we're going to cussing him regularly (those of us who aren't already doing that I mean).

Greenwood is going to be a 2 down LB by season's end. He is a liability in coverage and Adibi will take that job from him at some point.

Brandon420tx
08-17-2008, 12:35 AM
I made a post in the Jacoby thread about "Knee Jerk" reactions.

This isn't aimed at anyone in particular, I just wanted to put it out here for everyone to see and evaluate my thoughts.

"On "knee jerk reactions"
Cases from last year.

Owens fumbles. I've never been down on his fumbles last year because they were very iffy, yet people started believing he had trouble holding onto the ball.

Babin was a bust. Was he worth the draft picks and $$ given for him? No, Was he our second best DE by the end of preseason last year? Arguably yes, especially when it came to pass rushing. But its hard for people to overlook what Casserly gave for him.

JJ will be a rookie sensation and will crack the starting lineup by week 3. It didn't work out that way, and the more level headed of the posters here were quick to point out Walters great hands and exceptional blocking would keep him in the starting lineup, and who knew Andre Davis would break out like that?


Those were things from last year that I define as "Knee Jerk". Similar things I'm seeing this year are.

1. Reeves is our goat.
2. JJ won't make the team/doesn't deserve to
3. Our running game is doomed

on 1. Reeves coverage has been at least decent (I think its been a little better then decent, but I'll go with just at least decent for now) So he got punked by Reggie twice. On one play he forced him to the sideline, and on the other he ducked his head and completely missed him (... dumbass). BUT, at least he was trying to make plays on those short swing passes that have been killing us regularly for the past few years (and last game against denver) I view that as a positive, also he wasn't that noticebly beaten on the deeper routes.

on 2. 90% of the flack he's receiving right now is based on his punt returns. But if the coaches get the opinion that JJ is a liability on returns now, guess what, they'll look somewhere else. I'd rather this all get resoved in the preseason then through the first few weeks of the regular season. The thing is, we KNOW JJ can play at the WR position. Take out the return factor and he's at worst, serviceable.

on 3. Our running game might well be doomed. But ... When AJ gets back teams will back off our line a little bit. We've already been witnessing people not respecting KW, AD, and DAnderson. Think that will happen with AJ? 10 to 1 that SS won't be crowding the box in the regular season. People will start to take notice of our passing attack, and if they don't then it will be time to adopt the philosophy of passing to set up the run.

The things I'm concerned about so far.
1. The linebackers, mostly the depth and Marlon Greenwood
2. Pass Rush, hopefully will get better with stunts and more packages
3. Punts ... ok I'm not concerned with punts, but I want to see Turk run the ball at least 1 more tim

MEGA SWATT
08-17-2008, 01:01 AM
Schaub looked a 100 times better tonight than he did vs the Broncos. He also had a little more playing time.

yes he did:d:

Carr Bombed
08-17-2008, 01:22 AM
I made a post in the Jacoby thread about "Knee Jerk" reactions.

This isn't aimed at anyone in particular, I just wanted to put it out here for everyone to see and evaluate my thoughts.

"On "knee jerk reactions"

Those were things from last year that I define as "Knee Jerk". Similar things I'm seeing this year are.

1. Reeves is our goat.
2. JJ won't make the team/doesn't deserve to
3. Our running game is doomed

on 1. Reeves coverage has been at least decent (I think its been a little better then decent, but I'll go with just at least decent for now)

Really, what game were you watching? Reeves was getting picked on in passing situations and then got ran over by RBs and TEs/WRs when he tried to come up to make tackles.

He played like crap, there is no way to sugar coat it.

Polo
08-17-2008, 01:23 AM
Schaub looked about as good against the Saints as he did last year...

I think Schaub is the guy, but I will really feel good aabout him when I see him perform against a team with a really good D...

GuerillaBlack
08-17-2008, 01:28 AM
Schaub looked about as good against the Saints as he did last year...

I think Schaub is the guy, but I will really feel good aabout him when I see him perform against a team with a really good D...

Well, he didn't have AJ this game...

TexanSam
08-17-2008, 01:29 AM
Greenwood is going to be a 2 down LB by season's end. He is a liability in coverage and Adibi will take that job from him at some point.

How did Adibi fare today? I don't remember seeing him but I didn't watch the entire game either.

Brandon420tx
08-17-2008, 01:33 AM
As far as I know, Adibi didn't play.

as for CBs question.

Reeves wasn't burned deep, and there are just some pass routes that you can't be all over all the time, like hitches for example. Passes will get completed, I know its hard to accept that, but as long as he doesn't give up huge gains and yards after catch I'd consider him nickel/dime material. The problem is, we have no one to take the #2 spot untill Molden matures in the NFL more or Fletcher takes over the spot. (I'm really hoping Fletcher takes over the spot)

I want to make it clear that I'm not advocating Reeves the supreme ruler of the universe. Just stating his criticism is a little harsh. So far, only Bennet, Fletcher, Adibi, and Reeves has (to me) shown willingness to stop the short swing/screen passes on the outside. (oh yeah Demps too)

Polo
08-17-2008, 01:41 AM
Well, he didn't have AJ this game...

We don't have to see him throwing to AJ to evaluate his individual performance...

Ryan
08-17-2008, 01:41 AM
It's just preseason. That's all i think i need to say.

Carr Bombed
08-17-2008, 01:48 AM
As far as I know, Adibi didn't play.

as for CBs question.

Reeves wasn't burned deep, and there are just some pass routes that you can't be all over all the time, like hitches for example. Passes will get completed, I know its hard to accept that, but as long as he doesn't give up huge gains and yards after catch I'd consider him nickel/dime material.

He also had a pass interference penalty that kept Houston from having a legit chance of getting off the field and took NOLA from midfield and stuck them right on the edge of the redzone, which allowed them to score a TD and take the lead right before the half.

I know that passes will get completed, that's so obvious that it doesn't even have to be stated, but to act like the guy had a "decent" night just because he didn't get burned deep for a TD is just plain wrong. There is more to being a corner back than just keeping the play in front of you.

1. making a break on the ball and being in position to tackle the receiver as soon as he makes the catch.

2. don't have costly pass interference calls that kill your team

3. be able to come up and be physical in run support.

Jacques Reeves failed miserably at all of those.......again like I said above, there is no way to sugar coat that. We didn't give the guy 20 million dollars to be Petey Faggins and if he doesn't improve his play, that's exactly who he is.

The two worst Texans tonight was easily Jacques Reeves and Jacoby Jones......both players need to step it up.

Even though Molden got beat deep, I was more impressed with that one play than anything Reeves did tonight. Molden was able to close, get position, and stay right in the WRs hip pocket......it took a perfect pass to beat him and unfortunately that is what was thrown.

Polo
08-17-2008, 01:55 AM
I wouldn't jump the gun on Jacoby...

Guys that can make plays with the ball in their hand tend to stick around and be given chances...

I love David Anderson's game and have been a fan since his rookie yr, but Jacoby has an element to his game that DA doesn't have...And really no other reciever besides AJ has....Thats the ability to catch a ball and turn into a running back...

No other reciever besides AJ can catch a ball with defenders in his face and either run through tackles or make people miss...Even Owen Daniels is a catch turn and get a few yards kind of guy...

Andre Davis is slightly at that level, but not to the degree of AJ and Jacoby...

Think about it...If AJ or Jacoby catch a 15 yar crossing pattern in the middle of the field with no one within 8 yards as soon as they turn up the field you know that there's potential for a huge gain because of the talent they posses running with the ball in their hands...With other recievers you don't feel that kind of big play coming after the catch...

Jacoby is young, he's developing...You don't cut a guy with a fumble problem if he has that kind of talent...You cut guys who are mediocre who fumble a lot...those guys aren't worth the trouble....

Harnessing Jacob'y play making ability is possibly worth the trouble...

Having a fast reciever that can stretch a defense and return kicks...nice
Having a reciever that can catch, runs great routes,blocks and does the dirty work...excellent
Having a reciever that can do all that + potetially duplicate the run after the catch ability of your number one wideout....priceless...

There have been talented players with fumble promblems and they have gotten them worked out...No reason Jacoby can't do the same...

Carr Bombed
08-17-2008, 02:01 AM
Having a fast reciever that can stretch a defense and return kicks...nice
Having a reciever that can catch, runs great routes,blocks and does the dirty work...excellent
Having a reciever that can do all that + potetially duplicate the run after the catch ability of your number one wideout....priceless...

I'll take a consistent sure handed receiver that consistently moves the chains on 3rd down over a inconsistent flashy athletic receiver that makes inconsistent plays. Jacoby Jones is never going to sniff the starting WR rotation until he becomes a consistent player and as of right now, he's light years away from catching Kevin Walter (the guy that many posters wanted pushed out of the #2 WR spot.......but all the guy does is make big plays/catches).

Mr PC
08-17-2008, 02:04 AM
i was at the game. here is what i saw from the stands, while looking over my beer glass


OFFENSE

The offensive line looked way better than previous years. I dont think the Texans gave up a sack.

K. Walter and M. Schuab looked extremely impressive. Maybe its just because Jason David was in coverage, but it seemed like they have a strong connection.

Jacoby fumbled twice. Obviously he must fix that ASAP or he wont see the field at all. David Anderson did well, which might be on account of the Saints terrible secondary.

Tight ends did well.

Slaton is very fast. Taylor and Brown were decent.

The offense had no trouble moving the ball the entire game, run or pass it didnt seem to matter.

DEFENSE

Fred Bennet was impressive. I'd say Reeves > Molden as of right now. Reeves got beat by Colston, but Molden got beat by Lance Moore.

CC Brown got in a very good hit to save a touchdown, perhaps he is poised for a solid year after all. I remain skeptical though, that play may have turned out different if it were Shockey in the endzone rather than Mark Campbell.

The front 7 didnt seem to do too poorly, or too spectacularly.

Scooter
08-17-2008, 02:08 AM
reeves looks terrible, and we're REALLY going to miss dunta robinson if that's the way our db's play in run support (aside from naturally also missing his coverage ability). i wonder if we cut reeves if someone else in the division might pick him up like often happens. heck if nothing else we could try to trade him to new orleans ... he'd fit in perfectly beside jason david.

jacoby's head's not screwed on right. he's going to be in danger of not making the squad if that continues, especially after kubiak called him out at halftime. with johnson, davis, walter, and anderson, along with slaton, JJ's not in any position to be having repeated mental errors.

david anderson is going to get some big pats on the back when they go into the film room. gibbs is going to be very pleased with the way he's blocking, and his route running and hands have been near perfect.

if (i mean WHEN) green and/or brown go down at any point during the season, slaton is going to have a real chance to take the starting job. i know he's not supposed to be an every down back but he sure looks a lot better and much more confident than the guys fighting for the 3rd spot.

mexican_texan
08-17-2008, 02:10 AM
I think Jason David was our best player tonight.

Polo
08-17-2008, 02:11 AM
Here's what I learned:

Matt Schaub isn't too far behind the top QB's in this leauge. The only thing he really lacks is experience.

Slaton should figure to be a big part of everything offensive related this year.

Jaque Reeves is the worst. Not only does he get roasted but he gets shoved to the ground by Reggie Bush like a child, Ran through and got his helmet knocked off two plays later, and he also provided Reggie with a nice highlight score...With tht kind of play I'd rather go with a rook and let him learn ad Herv said...Jaques Reeves basically let a whole drive play out with inept play...

I don't know what I'd do with that D-line, but I think the DE's not named Mario need to be shaken up...

In a previous life I many times stated Greenwood was terrible and I will reiterate that now. He needs to go.

I'm actually kind of o.k with our safety play....not a whole laot happening in the middle of the field...

They aren't playmakers, but they are plenty experienced...We could still use a playmaker in centerfield, but I don't see that as one of our major weaknesses on that side of the ball...

I didn't notice Duane Brown. That's a good thing.

Overall I think the team played well, but we still definitely have a ways to go...But this is only the second pre-seaon game...it's early...

Polo
08-17-2008, 02:13 AM
I'll take a consistent sure handed receiver that consistently moves the chains on 3rd down over a inconsistent flashy athletic receiver that makes inconsistent plays.

I would too.

Too bad football careers don't operate in a two game vaccum...

Scooter
08-17-2008, 02:25 AM
I didn't notice Duane Brown. That's a good thing.

it definitely is. i watched him on a couple of plays and they were positive. he pulled out during a screen early in the game that impressed me, my immediate thought was "that play loses yards with last year's terrible blocking in space".

eriadoc
08-17-2008, 02:27 AM
Here's what I learned:

Matt Schaub isn't too far behind the top QB's in this leauge. The only thing he really lacks is experience.

He has the potential to be Tom Brady good.

I'm actually kind of o.k with our safety play....not a whole laot happening in the middle of the field...

Except for CC knockin' heads :)

I didn't notice Duane Brown. That's a good thing.

I did. He manhandled his guy a couple times. He had problems a couple times as well, but you can tell he belongs.


Re: Jacques Reeves - the worst part is that I don't see anything special about the guy. Molden played well, even though he got beat on the long pass. Reeves acquitted himself OK on a couple plays, but he seems like just another guy, at best. At worst, he seems like just another Faggins. Ugh.

I was OK with Chris Brown tonight. He didn't wow me, but he was steady, he took what yards were there, and he drove the pile. If he could stay healthy, I feel like he and Slaton could make a decent tandem. Taylor does nothing for me.

Carr Bombed
08-17-2008, 02:29 AM
I would too.

Too bad football careers don't operate in a two game vaccum...

What two game vaccum......Walter has been coming up with big catches since he was inserted into the lineup and this is Jones' second season and it looks like he's regressed. Since the end of last year's preseason he's regressed.

Potential is great and all, but in the NFL (unlike MLB or the NBA) with only a 53 man roster you can't just stash guys away just because they have potential. Jocoby's potential is only going to keep him around for so long........if he wants to stay on this team he needs to start showing he's on his way of reaching some of that potential.

Polo
08-17-2008, 02:41 AM
What two game vaccum......Walter has been coming up with big catches since he was inserted into the lineup and this is Jones' second season and it looks like he's regressed. Since the end of last year's preseason he's regressed.

Potential is great and all, but in the NFL (unlike MLB or the NBA) with only a 53 man roster you can't just stash guys away just because they have potential. Jocoby's potential is only going to keep him around for so long........if he wants to stay on this team he needs to start showing he's on his way of reaching some of that potential.


This is silly.

Had Jacoby come out and returned six punts for TD's in these two games the common thought would be..."It's just pre-season"...And with good reason...

Now that he's had some trouble holding onto the ball it's ok to read into the "pre-season"....Some folks tend to look at the negatives and run with them, some folks the positive...

Really I'm not trying to do either...I'm not saying he will or won't get better...All I said is that a guy with the kind of talent he has shouldn't be written off just yet....

Polo
08-17-2008, 02:42 AM
The game is replaying now...

Polo
08-17-2008, 02:57 AM
I was out eating when the game was live...The re-play is on ch. 13 now and I actually see a lot of positives...

I'm most impressed with the improved red zone play...

BSofA04
08-17-2008, 03:02 AM
The game is replaying now...

nevermind....

Corrosion
08-17-2008, 03:36 AM
I'm no longer going to bother dignifying "Sage should start" posts with a response. The difference between the two guys is like night and day and the people who can't see that aren't really people whose opinions on the game I value. There's nothing wrong with Sage but if you think he should start over Matt then I don't think you know what you're talking about.


Schaub looked real good ..... the one throw I didnt like from him resulted in a TD (the one to Leach). Sage is what he is , a very good back-up . Brink had a good series or two himself , that play-fake he made to the RB on the fumbled end around was very slick . Easy to see why Kubiak and Smith took the kid .

I cant wait to see the offense with AJ . This team will be fun to watch this year .


Jacoby Jones doesn't really need to make this football team. There's nothing particularly special about him and I think the Texans are starting to figure that out. He had an exciting preseason last year but he was a guy playing above his head and that's obvious now. Today he's an unfocused liability with speed and that makes him Jerome Mathis with a better disposition. Barring a sudden attack of maturity he's not worth a roster spot.


Thats exactly his problem ..... I mentioned in another thread that he pretty much embarrassed himself tonight in front of his family , friends and hometown fans . Maybe this game does him some good long term as he can reflect upon the embarrassment and maybe come back working harder and getting his head on straight.

The fumble on the end around was charged to Brink but it was JJ that muffed the play .


Jacques Reeves sure is living down to his billing as "toast". After watching him in two games I'm starting to think that if we're going to have to watch a corner get burned a bunch of times then we might as well throw Molden out there and let him get the experience. He'll get good sooner than Reeves will I suspect and according to Richard Smith (via a conversation Bob Allen spoke of) he doesn't get down himself when he gets beat but comes back over and over again. In a Richard Smith defense that's a valuable attribute because with the kind of pressure we usually bring (and have brought in two straight preseason games) our corners should get beaten regularly.


Where was Faggins while "J.Toast" was stinkin up the place ? He reminded me of .... P.Burnt. Yeah , I'd rather run Faggins out there than Reeves ....



I was not thrilled with the running game (again) but I think Slaton looked ok. I wasn't impressed with anyone else and wonder if Taylor will even make the team. He looks a step behind everyone and very hesitant to me (and then every few plays he blows up for no apparent reason). I think the year off with the injury really hurt whatever progress he had made. Brown wasn't impressive at all and looked like a guy who we've signed one season too late. Watching them interview Ahman Green and hearing him say "I don't know when I'll be back" was some infuriation stuff. I just don't want to see him again until he's lined up behind Schaub and ready to work. I can accept that we're going to have to watch this crap play out again this year but I don't want to have to listen to him hem and haw about how he's feeling or when he'll return. He's not that good an interview to begin with. No need to drag him out every preseason game and speculate about when he'll not have a pull/bruise/bo-bo/owie and be ready to go.

Slaton did a good job picking up the blitz which was my biggest concern for him coming in . He also ran much harder than I expected between the tackles . I look forward to seeing him get some time with the first string .


As for Green .... I wish they would cut the guy and admit it was a failed experiment . He wasnt all that impressive last year when he was healthy , take out the one nice gain he had in the Chiefs game last season and he wasnt even average .

Taylor had one real nice run and not much else .


Brown was un-impressive .... Another week of practice may help him .


I'd like to see Walker get an opportunity at RB ...



Duane Brown has looked good thus far , Next week against the Cowpies will be a good barometer for him .... DeMarcus Ware will be a good test and considering its the 3rd preseason game its as close as we will come to seeing him in a meaningful situation as can be expected until week 1 @ Pittsburgh.


David Anderson has played his way onto this team . He's easily the #4 WR on this roster .

:thinking:


The pass rush has me concerned .... again. I know its only preseason and teams dont show much nor do they blitz a whole lot ..... But they have to do a better job , Brees and Brunell had all day to throw tonight .

Carr Bombed
08-17-2008, 03:48 AM
This is silly.

Had Jacoby come out and returned six punts for TD's in these two games the common thought would be..."It's just pre-season"...And with good reason...

Now that he's had some trouble holding onto the ball it's ok to read into the "pre-season"....Some folks tend to look at the negatives and run with them, some folks the positive...

If my Aunt had balls.......well you know how it goes.

There isn't anything silly about it...it's actually silly to sit there and act like his poor play doesn't mean anything (or on the flip side, positive plays doesn't mean anything). This is the preseason, it's a lengthy job interview....the players that make a impact and big plays get a job and the ones that don't are in danger of not being hired. Some people will tell you "the preseason doesn't mean anything" but that is just a load of bull. Go ask someone like David Anderson (who has probably solidified himself ahead of Jacoby Jones on the depth chart) if the preason means anything.

Really I'm not trying to do either...I'm not saying he will or won't get better...All I said is that a guy with the kind of talent he has shouldn't be written off just yet....

I never said I was writing him off, I'm just speaking the truth......and the truth is, that if your a 4th stringer who is forming a habit of putting the ball on the ground, who is also moving down on the depth chart instead of up it....you tend to get on the coaches shit list regardless of how much talent you have. (This isn't Capers' Texans, there will be good players cut from this team)

There are mid-late round receivers with Jacoby like potential that come out every year. He will probably stick on the roster this season in that 5th string WR spot, but unless he really turns it on, I wouldn't expect him to be on the team much longer after that.

Andrew6
08-17-2008, 07:00 AM
where was D. Walker last night?

Kaiser Toro
08-17-2008, 07:22 AM
I noticed Diles was everywhere and Bennett was not mentioned often, has no problem doing some jawing with others and looks like he did some weight lifting work.

I have no problem with the Safety work. Duane Brown will be solid.

The offensive playbook came alive. The offensive line will be a strength this year.

forcefollow
08-17-2008, 08:51 AM
O line was great
QBs were great
WRs were good
RBs were terrible outside of Slaton

Dline brought no pressure.
DBs got shreaded by Brees.

Jacoby should be cut, Ahman Green and Taylor need to be cut. Simmons needs to make the team.

BattleRedToro
08-17-2008, 09:30 AM
Chris Brown will be fine after he knocks all the rust off that he has from missing so much time. He needs to runn with his pad level lower and I'm sure Chick Harris will be pointing that out to him in their film sessions.

As far as Jacoby goes here is a quote from Gary Kubiak from the Houston Texans website:

“It’s a problem right now,” Kubiak said. “We are trying to push the kid through it. We tried to get him another ball there to end the game on a reverse - from a confidence standpoint, try to get him a chance to make a play. But he’s struggling right now. He’s got a lot of ability. He can help us win, but we’ve got to get the issues fixed. I don’t think it’s a lack of effort on anybody’s part. We’ve got to regain this kid’s confidence somehow, and we’ll keep working through that.”

Hervoyel
08-17-2008, 10:14 AM
.....Even though Molden got beat deep, I was more impressed with that one play than anything Reeves did tonight. Molden was able to close, get position, and stay right in the WRs hip pocket......it took a perfect pass to beat him and unfortunately that is what was thrown.


See, that's the kind of thing that's at the basis of my "Oh just go ahead and start Moldon until Dunta gets back" feeling. By midseason Moldon will be a pretty good corner and have learned a lot. Reeves will be still just be "Reeves". The results from those 6-8 weeks will be the same regardless but one has upside and the other is just in the midst of confirming what Dallas fans seem to already know.

ubecool454
08-17-2008, 10:21 AM
Schaub looked about as good against the Saints as he did last year...

I think Schaub is the guy, but I will really feel good aabout him when I see him perform against a team with a really good D...

You will feel a lot better about Schaub when he gets his main man in there.

Hervoyel
08-17-2008, 10:22 AM
....CC Brown got in a very good hit to save a touchdown, perhaps he is poised for a solid year after all. I remain skeptical though, that play may have turned out different if it were Shockey in the endzone rather than Mark Campbell.

True but most teams in the NFL don't have Jeremy Shockey back there. CC Brown is fine back there if he's paired with a quality FS like Demps or better ("quality", I never said Demps was more than that). It's only when you have CC back there playing FS with another guy just like him playing SS that you run into trouble.

In this configuration Brown isn't the gaping hole he was before. He's not our ultimate answer but he'll do until Rick Smith can turn his attention to upgrading the spot.

CloakNNNdagger
08-17-2008, 10:35 AM
Our CBs need to learn to "look over their shoulder" (at the ball). Otherwise, they will be "looking over their shoulder" for someone who can.

ObsiWan
08-17-2008, 11:13 AM
Our CBs need to learn to "look over their shoulder" (at the ball). Otherwise, they will be "looking over their shoulder" for someone who can.

IIRC, most CBs are taught to keep their eyes on the WR and only look back when the WRs look back otherwise they lose track of the WR leaving him WIDE open. Savvy WRs know this and will wait until the last moment to look up and find the ball thus giving the CB little time to react.

If the CB sees the WR's eyes go wide - meaning the ball is near - they could stick and arm up at that time ...but in today's NFL that's face-guarding and draws an "automatic" flag.

markn
08-17-2008, 11:45 AM
Our passing game is beginning to look outstanding, however, without a decent running game that won't be sustainable. I do think the running game will come with time, though.

What concerns me - and it echoes my post-Denver thoughts - is that we're really struggling on D. We've simply got to find a way to get teams off the field. These high-scoring shoot-outs are fun to watch but they're not a sensible basis for a play-off run.

On paper, our front 7 looks fine, and other than Reeves (who looks an utter liability) the secondary look serviceable too. So what's the problem here? It's probably too early to be pointing fingers at Richard 'vanilla' Smith again, but one has to wonder...

CloakNNNdagger
08-17-2008, 11:56 AM
IIRC, most CBs are taught to keep their eyes on the WR and only look back when the WRs look back otherwise they lose track of the WR leaving him WIDE open. Savvy WRs know this and will wait until the last moment to look up and find the ball thus giving the CB little time to react.
If the CB sees the WR's eyes go wide - meaning the ball is near - they could stick and arm up at that time ...but in today's NFL that's face-guarding and draws an "automatic" flag.

I understand, but if you look at the Reeves' and Molden's "burned" plays, I think you'll see the the receivers "gave up their hands"......and it was not recognized or reacted to.

******

As far as face-guarding, I believe there is no penalty unless there is contact.

Hervoyel
08-17-2008, 12:01 PM
Our passing game is beginning to look outstanding, however, without a decent running game that won't be sustainable. I do think the running game will come with time, though.

What concerns me - and it echoes my post-Denver thoughts - is that we're really struggling on D. We've simply got to find a way to get teams off the field. These high-scoring shoot-outs are fun to watch but they're not a sensible basis for a play-off run.

On paper, our front 7 looks fine, and other than Reeves (who looks an utter liability) the secondary look serviceable too. So what's the problem here? It's probably too early to be pointing fingers at Richard 'vanilla' Smith again, but one has to wonder...

I'd say that your first point, about our passing game is valid with the exception that Spencer Tillman brought up last night (I can't believe I'm quoting Spencer Tillman. Do I have a fever?) that it is possible that our running game may be not good enough to run first but, it could be adequate for a pass first-then run approach. We won't know until the games get real though so it's cause for concern even if it does turn out alright.

On your second point about the defense we're just like we were last season and that is totally dependent on other teams shooting themselves in the foot to get stops much of the time. We just don't seem to bring the pressure that you would expect of this bunch of 1's and I'm just hoping that when the Texans start putting Colvin out there regularly things may change. They're holding him back a lot because he's an older player and there's not much to gain by exposing him to the potential for preseason injury. It makes me nervous though. We have a "Must Get Pressure" secondary if ever I saw one and we can't afford for the Colvin experiment to not work out.

Richard Smith's defense is so far and I very much hope that if we see another finish this year where we improve by like 1 or 2 spots in ranking then he's gone. The Texans haven't settled for no-results anywhere since Kubiak and Rick Smith got here and I hope that they hold their defensive coordinator to the same standards. Richard Smith might be a friend and a good guy but I expect Kubiak to do what's best for the team (unlike Capers years ago who kept bad assistants out of loyalty).

If course if we vault into the top ten on defense this year then I'll gladly login, apologize publicly, and grab a big mug of Kool Aid.

nunusguy
08-17-2008, 12:02 PM
Schaub was outstanding, even brilliant last night in NOLA. If the durability
issue does not return, he looks like every bit the player Rick & Kubiak expected and hoped for when they gave up 2 second-rounders for him.
And Slaton was a very pleasant surprise. He actually ran up the middle with some real heart, something they didn't advertise, while showing us that sweet little burst we don't see much of in these parts.
And great game by Walters, this guy just keeps getting better.
On the negative side, lot of concerns at corner and we still seem to be missing any kind of pass rush ?
And what's wrong with Jacobey, he's been regressing ever since his steller
rookie preseason ? I'm almost wondering if he wants to be cut ?

GP
08-17-2008, 12:14 PM
Haven't watched the game yet (Watching it Monday).

But from this thread, it sounds like JJ is spiraling downward.

I think JJ is living off a memory. He made some cool plays during last year's preseason (making SportsCenter highlights) and I just think the guy is riding each game off his past glory.

He thinks he can score every time he touches the ball, so he's not focusing on each step that comes BEFORE he breaks away. All he has in his mind is the image of him celebrating the score, hearing the thunder of applause and the roar of the crowd.

Sounds like he IS a liability at the moment.

I don't think he deserves to be cut. I sense that the coaches want him to get past his mistakes, they're desiring to see him overcome it.

The thing that I don't see anybody mentioning is this: We'd never CUT the guy...he'd be traded because he's talented yet NOT gelling here in Houston. JJ is certainly a guy who could command a draft pick compensation or another player from an interested team. Just my .02.

CloakNNNdagger
08-17-2008, 12:36 PM
IIRC, most CBs are taught to keep their eyes on the WR and only look back when the WRs look back otherwise they lose track of the WR leaving him WIDE open. Savvy WRs know this and will wait until the last moment to look up and find the ball thus giving the CB little time to react.

If the CB sees the WR's eyes go wide - meaning the ball is near - they could stick and arm up at that time ...but in today's NFL that's face-guarding and draws an "automatic" flag.

I previously wrote that face-guarding was not illegal without contact.
But actually I am not entirely correct, you may be closer to the "truth." Face-guarding is illegal, even without contact, IF the defender has his back to the play (without looking back).

Face-guarding without contact, though, does remain legal in college football, I believe.

J-Russ
08-17-2008, 12:39 PM
This is silly.

Had Jacoby come out and returned six punts for TD's in these two games the common thought would be..."It's just pre-season"...And with good reason...

Now that he's had some trouble holding onto the ball it's ok to read into the "pre-season"....Some folks tend to look at the negatives and run with them, some folks the positive...

Really I'm not trying to do either...I'm not saying he will or won't get better...All I said is that a guy with the kind of talent he has shouldn't be written off just yet....
yup. agreed.
If my Aunt had balls.......well you know how it goes.

There isn't anything silly about it...it's actually silly to sit there and act like his poor play doesn't mean anything (or on the flip side, positive plays doesn't mean anything). This is the preseason, it's a lengthy job interview....the players that make a impact and big plays get a job and the ones that don't are in danger of not being hired. Some people will tell you "the preseason doesn't mean anything" but that is just a load of bull. Go ask someone like David Anderson (who has probably solidified himself ahead of Jacoby Jones on the depth chart) if the preason means anything.


This is like a job interview? Well the Texans must be the marine then, because they were the one that recruited Jones (drafted).

If they cut him now, Rick/Kubiak would look silly wasting a 3rd round pick on him. Pre-draft, they knew he came from a small school. They knew he wouldn't get it right away because of that. Transiting from a 3A school to the NFL isn't a easy task, and they knew that before they drafted Jones. I think there a 3 year window for this kind of "project". It's silly to think they would cut him now, when they already knew what they were getting when they drafted him, what his journey would be like to get to his potential, and how great the ending result could be.

Too early to have the discussion about cutting him. Come back with that next year.

beerlover
08-17-2008, 01:22 PM
See, that's the kind of thing that's at the basis of my "Oh just go ahead and start Moldon until Dunta gets back" feeling. By midseason Moldon will be a pretty good corner and have learned a lot. Reeves will be still just be "Reeves". The results from those 6-8 weeks will be the same regardless but one has upside and the other is just in the midst of confirming what Dallas fans seem to already know.

I don't think thats wise or what the Texans will do. they'll need to be patient with Molden so he keeps progressing without set-backs. even though they may seem pretty close in coverage skills, Reeves still has the advantage in NFL expereince & is stronger despite losing chicken sratch with Reggie Bush.

We don't remember drafting Reeves because we didn't- Dallas did, in the 7th (2004) for compairson Faggins was drafted, by the Texans in the 6th (2002). The reason I bring this up is because he was a late rd. pick which means developmental, only entering his 5th year has better size & long speed which is what they are looking for. check out these #'s between cb's-

Fred Bennett- 6-0 197
Antwain Molden- 6-0 197
Jaques Reeves- 5-11 192

Those are some nice sized cb's. Bennett looks even more physical & bigger, also noticed him on the sideline talking to Molden after he was beaten showing leadership. For an area of the team that was a prioity need going into free agency & the draft Rick Smith & company did the best they could to address the need. Now its up to Reeves & Molden to accept the challenge, take notes in film study plus all the coaching up Jon Hoke offers.

Carr Bombed
08-17-2008, 02:01 PM
yup. agreed.


This is like a job interview? Well the Texans must be the marine then, because they were the one that recruited Jones (drafted).

If they cut him now, Rick/Kubiak would look silly wasting a 3rd round pick on him. Pre-draft, they knew he came from a small school. They knew he wouldn't get it right away because of that. Transiting from a 3A school to the NFL isn't a easy task, and they knew that before they drafted Jones. I think there a 3 year window for this kind of "project". It's silly to think they would cut him now, when they already knew what they were getting when they drafted him, what his journey would be like to get to his potential, and how great the ending result could be.

Too early to have the discussion about cutting him. Come back with that next year.

Hmm....Why didn't you quote the rest of my post....

I never said I was writing him off, I'm just speaking the truth......and the truth is, that if your a 4th stringer who is forming a habit of putting the ball on the ground, who is also moving down on the depth chart instead of up it....you tend to get on the coaches shit list regardless of how much talent you have. (This isn't Capers' Texans, there will be good players cut from this team)

There are mid-late round receivers with Jacoby like potential that come out every year. He will probably stick on the roster this season in that 5th string WR spot, but unless he really turns it on, I wouldn't expect him to be on the team much longer after that.

threetoedpete
08-17-2008, 03:10 PM
I don't think thats wise or what the Texans will do. they'll need to be patient with Molden so he keeps progressing without set-backs. even though they may seem pretty close in coverage skills, Reeves still has the advantage in NFL expereince & is stronger despite losing chicken sratch with Reggie Bush.

We don't remember drafting Reeves because we didn't- Dallas did, in the 7th (2004) for compairson Faggins was drafted, by the Texans in the 6th (2002). The reason I bring this up is because he was a late rd. pick which means developmental, only entering his 5th year has better size & long speed which is what they are looking for. check out these #'s between cb's-

Fred Bennett- 6-0 197
Antwain Molden- 6-0 197
Jaques Reeves- 5-11 192

Those are some nice sized cb's. Bennett looks even more physical & bigger, also noticed him on the sideline talking to Molden after he was beaten showing leadership. For an area of the team that was a prioity need going into free agency & the draft Rick Smith & company did the best they could to address the need. Now its up to Reeves & Molden to accept the challenge, take notes in film study plus all the coaching up Jon Hoke offers.

This is what I'm thinking also bearlover. Rushing Molden into service is a disaster waiting to happen. If he gets the patience Fred Bennet got he'll be O.K. There are worse things then finishing 7-9 or 8-8. Ruining a young prospect forever qualifies in my book. I can see what's around the corner so help me. Put lipstick on Reeves and hold your water on Molden.

TexanSam
08-17-2008, 03:12 PM
This is what I'm thinking also bearlover. Rushing Molden into service is a disaster waiting to happen. If he gets the patience Fred Bennet got he'll be O.K. There are worse things then finishing 7-9 or 8-8. Ruining a young prospect forever qualifies in my book. I can see what's around the corner so help me. Put lipstick on Reeves and hold your water on Molden.

I agree. Bennett did not become a part of the regular rotation last year until week 5 or 6 I believe. He got some playing time here and there before that but he wasn't pressed into action until about 1/3 of the way into the season. The Texans should do the same thing with Molden.

Of course it would be awesome if Molden just steps up and becomes our #2 CB right away, but the Texans shouldn't put that pressure on him if he isn't ready.

MEGA SWATT
08-17-2008, 03:13 PM
This is what I'm thinking also bearlover. Rushing Molden into service is a disaster waiting to happen. If he gets the patience Fred Bennet got he'll be O.K. There are worse things then finishing 7-9 or 8-8. Ruining a young prospect forever qualifies in my book. I can see what's around the corner so help me. Put lipstick on Reeves and hold your water on Molden.

just made me laugh on that:

http://img.metro.co.uk/i/pix/2007/09/Bears3_450x300.jpg

beerlover
08-17-2008, 08:39 PM
just made me laugh on that:

http://img.metro.co.uk/i/pix/2007/09/Bears3_450x300.jpg

thats just plain wrong :kingkong:

J-Russ
08-17-2008, 11:24 PM
Hmm....Why didn't you quote the rest of my post....

My mistake. But from the looks of your other posts(mainly one in the game thread about getting his shit together) I figured you were in the 'send his ass out' camp.

ObsiWan
08-17-2008, 11:44 PM
I understand, but if you look at the Reeves' and Molden's "burned" plays, I think you'll see the the receivers "gave up their hands"......and it was not recognized or reacted to.

******

As far as face-guarding, I believe there is no penalty unless there is contact.

therein lies the problem...
both of those passes were deflectable since neither DB had been "left in the dust". I agree, neither guy responded to the WR when they "gave up their hands" as you say.

Polo
09-04-2008, 04:55 PM
I wouldn't jump the gun on Jacoby...

Guys that can make plays with the ball in their hand tend to stick around and be given chances...

I love David Anderson's game and have been a fan since his rookie yr, but Jacoby has an element to his game that DA doesn't have...And really no other reciever besides AJ has....Thats the ability to catch a ball and turn into a running back...

No other reciever besides AJ can catch a ball with defenders in his face and either run through tackles or make people miss...Even Owen Daniels is a catch turn and get a few yards kind of guy...

Andre Davis is slightly at that level, but not to the degree of AJ and Jacoby...

Think about it...If AJ or Jacoby catch a 15 yar crossing pattern in the middle of the field with no one within 8 yards as soon as they turn up the field you know that there's potential for a huge gain because of the talent they posses running with the ball in their hands...With other recievers you don't feel that kind of big play coming after the catch...

Jacoby is young, he's developing...You don't cut a guy with a fumble problem if he has that kind of talent...You cut guys who are mediocre who fumble a lot...those guys aren't worth the trouble....

Harnessing Jacob'y play making ability is possibly worth the trouble...

Having a fast reciever that can stretch a defense and return kicks...nice
Having a reciever that can catch, runs great routes,blocks and does the dirty work...excellent
Having a reciever that can do all that + potetially duplicate the run after the catch ability of your number one wideout....priceless...

There have been talented players with fumble promblems and they have gotten them worked out...No reason Jacoby can't do the same...


Kubiak's take on my point:

(on emphasizing yards after catch with the receivers) “We feel like we threw the ball extremely well last year but if you look around the league, yards after catch, we were near the bottom. We feel like making plays once the ball is in your hands is something that is very important. We have to put the pressure on them to try to step up and make some of those plays.”

(on WR Andre Johnson watching tape of Rod Smith) “We had a board in our room, yards after catch, showing how many yards you are responsible for as a receiver, because so many times there are guys that play that position that catch it and think they are done. And there’s guys that before they catch it, they know what they want to go do with it. So, we are just encouraging them to get better in that phase.”

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=4592


Having recievers that can catch the ball and get good YAC is a valuable asset...That's why Jacoby will have a little longer leash...

O.k...carry on....

ObsiWan
09-04-2008, 11:15 PM
Kubiak's take on my point:



http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=4592


Having recievers that can catch the ball and get good YAC is a valuable asset...That's why Jacoby will have a little longer leash...

O.k...carry on....

If he'll just work harder on the catching and holding the ball part...
believe me, I'm pulling for him.