PDA

View Full Version : Jacoby Jones


valleytexfan
08-16-2008, 09:53 PM
OK what happens now? Nothing? A serious talking-to? what you all think?

JayCee
08-16-2008, 09:57 PM
this was the game where he should have showed everyone that he has moved on from last weeks game - what happens? he makes even more mistakes.

Brando
08-16-2008, 09:59 PM
Let him play the rest of the preseason and go from there.

GuerillaBlack
08-16-2008, 10:01 PM
Kubes is probably chewing him out now.

gtexan02
08-16-2008, 10:02 PM
Did he fumble another one? After his muffed punt?

Brandon420tx
08-16-2008, 10:03 PM
Sheesh, call off the dogs, they'll get this sorted out before the first game.

J-Russ
08-16-2008, 10:10 PM
I'm afraid that he might get shell-shock after these two pre-season games. I still want him to have the "take it all the way" mentality, but I just hope he can make the right decisions when the ball is coming towards him.

New_Texans
08-16-2008, 10:13 PM
You know, I would only really start worrying when these fumbles start happening in the regular season. Right now, he just needs to learn 'grab the ball then run not run then grab the ball'.

The Pencil Neck
08-16-2008, 10:14 PM
Did he fumble another one? After his muffed punt?

Yes. An end-around. NFL.com credited Brink with hit but I'm not so sure. I want to see the replay.

But from what the announcers said, it was a sure TD. Everyone flowed to the run fake and he had open field ahead of him.

Thorn
08-16-2008, 10:14 PM
I was wondering if someone was going to start a JJ thread. LOL

Guys that make it to this level should be better, most especially in their 2nd year. I guess we wait and see what he does at Dallas next week.

Overalls
08-16-2008, 10:15 PM
I was big on Jacoby last year but he hasn't seemed the same since he hurt his shoulder. I think he can still get it together but man he did not look good tonight. Although he did have that one nice catch.

Hardcore Texan
08-16-2008, 10:16 PM
He better get his head right and stop screwing up or he is not going to last long.

valleytexfan
08-16-2008, 10:17 PM
I was wondering if someone was going to start a JJ thread. LOL

Guys that make it to this level should be better, most especially in their 2nd year. I guess we wait and see what he does at Dallas next week.

Had to, just had to, Thorn. ;)

Dcolbyt
08-16-2008, 10:22 PM
i live not far from where he went to college and its a very small town. i bet its like going from highschool to the nfl. he is the only reason i even know where lane college is.

GuerillaBlack
08-16-2008, 10:29 PM
i live not far from where he went to college and its a very small town. i bet its like going from highschool to the nfl. he is the only reason i even know where lane college is.

Yeah, Lane College is pretty small. 1700 students and only 46 faculty/staff. My high school is more than double the size.

Texans_Chick
08-16-2008, 10:34 PM
Sheesh, call off the dogs, they'll get this sorted out before the first game.

I hope so.

I'm afraid he has the football equivalent of the yips. Like Chuck Knoblauch throwing to first base. Rick Ankiel pitching. Shaq and free throws. What expert archers call "target panic (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/01/sports/olympics/01archery.html?pagewanted=print)."

It's the opposite of being in the zone. You have so much going on in your head, you lose confidence and trust in everything you do. Sometimes it is just trying too hard, and not just doing and being.

The bad thing about this is though sometimes players can work through it, sometimes it can't be coached out.

It's a horrible horrible feeling to have. I feel so bad for the guy.

TheRealJoker
08-16-2008, 10:36 PM
I want to see Slaton take PRs with the 1s next week. If he's solid in that role then Jacoby is going to have to win the WR 5 job outright. But at this point he's not suiting up on Sundays until he proves that he's taking to the coaching and stops repeating the same mistakes.

Dcolbyt
08-16-2008, 10:45 PM
not a bad idea, since he might not get many carries this yr. i just want a reason to buy a number 12 jersey

TexanSam
08-16-2008, 10:47 PM
not a bad idea, since he might not get many carries this yr. i just want a reason to buy a number 12 jersey

I feel bad for people that bought JJ jersey's last offseason. I saw a few people wearing them after his great preseason.

Hervoyel
08-16-2008, 10:50 PM
I think almost all of us were just far too high on Jacoby Jones. He was a good preseason story last year. "Kid from small school does good in the pro's and isn't phased by the transition" made for good press and he really was exciting but that was preseason before he knew what he was getting into and this is year two and the rest of the league isn't surprised at how quick Jacoby Jones is. They had him figured out in about three weeks last year and the sad truth is that he's nothing special at this level.

I'm not really interested in seeing the Texans keep him at this point. He's last years kool aid and nothing more.

Dcolbyt
08-16-2008, 10:50 PM
i guess it could be a bad idea to get a slaton jersey

Brandon420tx
08-16-2008, 10:52 PM
I love how last year people were wanting to crown him the starter by game 3, and this season they want to throw him under the bus. Maybe he'll have a complete year reversal this year. Horrible preseason, awesome regular season. The knee jerk reactions are quite fun to read.

Thorn
08-16-2008, 10:52 PM
Before we kick him off the team, let's wait and see what he does against Dallas. He has a lot of talent, something we could use if he can get his head together.

TexanSam
08-16-2008, 10:52 PM
I think almost all of us were just far too high on Jacoby Jones. He was a good preseason story last year. "Kid from small school does good in the pro's and isn't phased by the transition" made for good press and he really was exciting but that was preseason before he knew what he was getting into and this is year two and the rest of the league isn't surprised at how quick Jacoby Jones is. They had him figured out in about three weeks last year and the sad truth is that he's nothing special at this level.

I'm not really interested in seeing the Texans keep him at this point. He's last years kool aid and nothing more.

He kind of reminds me of a young player called up from the minors and starts playing well right as soon as he is brought up. But then the league catches up to him and we realize he's playing over his head.

Jacoby Jones may have just been playing over his head last preseason. If he continues to play poorly, I would not be surprised to see him get cut.

It seems like David Anderson has leapfrogged him and is the #4 guy now. I wonder if Tim Carter or Harry Williams have any chance at also passing by JJ.

Brandon420tx
08-16-2008, 10:55 PM
It seems like David Anderson has leapfrogged him and is the #4 guy now. I wonder if Tim Carter or Harry Williams have any chance at also passing by JJ.

I don't think so, but if we can't keep Simmons or Williams on the PS we "might" have 6 WRs on the roster but 1 will be inactive each game.

MEGA SWATT
08-16-2008, 10:57 PM
He should talk to Jerry Rice. I am serious. Jerry Rice was Mr. Butterfinger and became one of the best WRs to ever play the game...........


Jerry Rice Bio:

Jerry struggled as a rookie at first; and in the whole season, he only started four games. Reporters referred to him as a potential bust and some teammates called him “Butterfingers” to his face. In one game, Rice dropped two wide open passes; then, during half time Frisbee-catching dogs took the field and a fan yelled, “Rice, take notes!”

Rice later said, “Oh man, there were many games where I just went in and cried. I cried because I had always been able to catch a football and make a play, and now I was dropping footballs and I just couldn’t pinpoint what was going on. I had never been booed before, and that was really hard. Bill (Walsh) and the coaches just kept telling me, ‘Just keep working hard.’ In a situation like that, they could have slammed the door on me and said, ‘Ok, bad draft choice, let’s get rid of him.’ But I guess Bill saw something in me and stuck with me. He can see something in a football player that no one else can see.”

I hope Gary Kubiak takes a page out of Bill Walsh's book and treats JJ the same.
Settle down folks, I'm not saying JJ will be anywhere near JR, but he can get past this and be a VERY good player/playmaker/producer.

http://www.geocities.com/ricecollector80/bio.html

Jacoby Jones 6'2" 207
Jerry Rice 6'2" 196

http://www.jerryricefootball.com/index.cfm/pk/content/pid/400047

http://www.nestle.ca/NR/rdonlyres/15DD625C-C4C7-4723-8E6B-A7600EEFE52E/0/201445_BF_59gwrapw2_3D.jpg

http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/pic/PHO/AAFS005_8x10-Overtheshouldercatch~Jerry-Rice-Posters.jpg

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/054N72ve1dak3/610x.jpg

Brandon420tx
08-16-2008, 10:59 PM
I would really like to see JJ given more oppurtunites at WR before we unanimously decide he can't cut it. He's only gotten about 3 passes thrown to him so far this preseason. Take him off Punt Returns for 1 game and let him evaluate himself as a receiver first and foremost.

Carr Bombed
08-16-2008, 11:00 PM
He kind of reminds me of a young player called up from the minors and starts playing well right as soon as he is brought up. But then the league catches up to him and we realize he's playing over his head.

Jacoby R. Towles

pappy
08-16-2008, 11:00 PM
I want to see Slaton take PRs with the 1s next week. If he's solid in that role then Jacoby is going to have to win the WR 5 job outright. But at this point he's not suiting up on Sundays until he proves that he's taking to the coaching and stops repeating the same mistakes.

I would rather not have the best runner we have be a target in the punt returner role . Personally i think jacoby is going to be benched and another returner will be found , at least i hope so .

Hervoyel
08-16-2008, 11:00 PM
I love how last year people were wanting to crown him the starter by game 3, and this season they want to throw him under the bus. Maybe he'll have a complete year reversal this year. Horrible preseason, awesome regular season. The knee jerk reactions are quite fun to read.

Why do you assume it's a knee jerk reaction?

J-Russ
08-16-2008, 11:02 PM
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/054N72ve1dak3/610x.jpg

omg. Is that Reeves on the ground? How ominous. Someone should've shown that to Rick Smith before he even went in contact with Reeves.

Mailman
08-16-2008, 11:07 PM
I love how last year people were wanting to crown him the starter by game 3, and this season they want to throw him under the bus. Maybe he'll have a complete year reversal this year. Horrible preseason, awesome regular season. The knee jerk reactions are quite fun to read.

Have you heard what Kubiak has been preaching throughout the offseason OTAs and training camp?

Protect. The. Ball.

These aren't knee-jerk reactions and nobody is throwing him under the bus. Jacoby Jones jumped the shark and forgot that the path to success lies in taking it one step at a time.

The buck stops with him.

I'm as big a JJ fan as anyone, but his failure to hold on to the ball and his poor decision-making on punt returns makes him somewhat of a liability right now.

MEGA SWATT
08-16-2008, 11:08 PM
omg. Is that Reeves on the ground? How ominous. Someone should've shown that to Rick Smith before he even went in contact with Reeves.

Yes:
11 months ago: Houston Texans' Jacoby Jones (12) runs past Dallas Cowboys' Jacques Reeves (35) and Keith Davis (29) as he returns a punt 91 yards for touchdown during the first quarter of a preseason NFL football game Saturday, Aug. 25, 2007 in Houston.
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/054N72ve1dak3/610x.jpg

Brandon420tx
08-16-2008, 11:15 PM
Why do you assume it's a knee jerk reaction?

1. I was referencing last season when everyone considered Jacoby WR 2a. and Kevin WR 2b. We know how that one went

2. Really the only thing Jacoby has gotten a chance to show us so far is punt returns, about 3 passes, and a handoff on a reverse.

The handoff on the reverse is going to be screwy with the 4th string QB and WRs who aren't used to getting the ball handed to them (I was confused last year when we constantly ran reverses with Walter, but I think I know why now)

Everyone remembers JJs punt returns last preseason, but I was impressed with his pass receptions. Does he have great moves on punt returns? Yes. Is he having a bad case of nerves right now? Yes. Can he overcome them? Maybe. Do we have other people who can return punts? Oh Yeah, David Anderson looked good last year doing it.

I really don't care if JJ is our return guy or not, you can always get someone to return the punts. His great returns last year were a combination of blocking, good block awareness, and pure straightline speed with 2-3 moves max for yards. I for one have not been thoroughly impressed with the blocking on the punts so far. Theres only been about 3 good ones IMO.

I really want to see Jacoby develope as a reliable WR, who can 1. Use his speed and agility to get open easier, and 2. make big yards after the catch with that same speed and agility. Right now we have 4 WRs our QBs know they can rely on (5 if you count simmons). On passing plays JJ hasn't really disappointed me yet, and thats where I focus most on WRs.


Basically all I want to see is how he performs as a receiver and not just look at him as a return guy.

J-Russ
08-16-2008, 11:19 PM
Have you heard what Kubiak has been preaching throughout the offseason OTAs and training camp?

Protect. The. Ball.

These aren't knee-jerk reactions and nobody is throwing him under the bus. Jacoby Jones jumped the shark and forgot that the path to success lies in taking it one step at a time.

The buck stops with him.

I'm as big a JJ fan as anyone, but his failure to hold on to the ball and his poor decision-making on punt returns makes him somewhat of a liability right now.

Thought the kid would've learned after muffing the punt against the Titans last year. And just like last year, the defender was like 5 yards away from him before he even touched the ball and he still tried to return it.

The coaches are going zoom in on Jacoby these last two weeks of pre-season, and see how he reacts after this game. Meaning he has to go 110% every minute he's on the football field, even in practice. He has to show dedication and focus, and also a willingness to learn from those mistakes. No more clubbing or partying, it's football season. His mind should be 100% into football. If he show improvement in the next two games then the coach might keep him around, but right now his future with the Texans is looking dim.

valleytexfan
08-16-2008, 11:23 PM
I wasn't calling for his head by any means. I was just wondering what happens from here? How does this get fixed? He is too talented to waste it away on the fumbles...

Brandon420tx
08-16-2008, 11:31 PM
Have you heard what Kubiak has been preaching throughout the offseason OTAs and training camp?

Protect. The. Ball.

These aren't knee-jerk reactions and nobody is throwing him under the bus. Jacoby Jones jumped the shark and forgot that the path to success lies in taking it one step at a time.

The buck stops with him.

I'm as big a JJ fan as anyone, but his failure to hold on to the ball and his poor decision-making on punt returns makes him somewhat of a liability right now.

People are getting darn close to throwing him under the bus. All of my rantings is coming from a guy who last year was not buying into JJ being our #2 WR, I don't have any emotional stock invested into him, I just prefer not to single a player out for just 1 thing.

Cases from last year.

Owens fumbles. I've never been down on his fumbles last year because they were very iffy, yet people started believing he had trouble holding onto the ball.

Babin was a bust. Was he worth the draft picks and $$ given for him? No, Was he our second best DE by the end of preseason last year? Arguably yes, especially when it came to pass rushing. But its hard for people to overlook what Casserly gave for him.

JJ will be a rookie sensation and will crack the starting lineup by week 3. It didn't work out that way, and the more level headed of the posters here were quick to point out Walters great hands and exceptional blocking would keep him in the starting lineup, and who knew Andre Davis would break out like that?


Those were things from last year that I define as "Knee Jerk". Similar things I'm seeing this year are.

1. Reeves is our goat.
2. JJ won't make the team/doesn't deserve to
3. Our running game is doomed

on 1. Reeves coverage has been at least decent (I think its been a little better then decent, but I'll go with just at least decent for now) So he got punked by Reggie twice. On one play he forced him to the sideline, and on the other he ducked his head and completely missed him (... dumbass). BUT, at least he was trying to make plays on those short swing passes that have been killing us regularly for the past few years (and last game against denver) I view that as a positive, also he wasn't that noticebly beaten on the deeper routes.

on 2. 90% of the flack he's receiving right now is based on his punt returns. But if the coaches get the opinion that JJ is a liability on returns now, guess what, they'll look somewhere else. I'd rather this all get resoved in the preseason then through the first few weeks of the regular season. The thing is, we KNOW JJ can play at the WR position. Take out the return factor and he's at worst, serviceable.

on 3. Our running game might well be doomed. But ... When AJ gets back teams will back off our line a little bit. We've already been witnessing people not respecting KW, AD, and DAnderson. Think that will happen with AJ? 10 to 1 that SS won't be crowding the box in the regular season. People will start to take notice of our passing attack, and if they don't then it will be time to adopt the philosophy of passing to set up the run.

The things I'm concerned about so far.
1. The linebackers, mostly the depth and Marlon Greenwood
2. Pass Rush, hopefully will get better with stunts and more packages
3. Punts ... ok I'm not concerned with punts, but I want to see Turk run the ball at least 1 more time.

TexanSam
08-16-2008, 11:32 PM
I wonder how much his first fumble had to do with being pumped because his whole family was in the crowd. Maybe he felt like he needed to do something special.

I'm not making excuses for the guy though. He should be smart enough to know when to call a fair catch.

beerlover
08-16-2008, 11:38 PM
Jacoby needs to re-focus on his fundamentals, let the game come to him instead of trying to force a big play. He seems more serious, I'm sure he's getting a good talking to but when they look @ tape I think it all comes back to basics, then the playmaking ability returns.

GlassHalfFull
08-16-2008, 11:46 PM
I am not going to throw him under the bus due to tonight's performance (or lack thereof) but he has a big * by his name in my mind. Here's hoping he remembers how to hold on to the ball. :toast2:

Corrosion
08-17-2008, 01:01 AM
Yes. An end-around. NFL.com credited Brink with hit but I'm not so sure. I want to see the replay.

But from what the announcers said, it was a sure TD. Everyone flowed to the run fake and he had open field ahead of him.

That fumble was all on JJ , Brink hit him square between the numbers with the hand-off . I watched the replay probably a dozen times .... Brink's play fake to the RB was also damn slick .

Not only the fumble on the hand-off but JJ muffed another punt that lead to NO's first field goal . I almost expected Kubiak to pull the plug on JJ for the night right then and there . Fortunately for JJ he got a couple return chances in the second half .




I came away pretty impressed by Brink overall and can see why Kubiak & Smith drafted the kid . Its going to be interesting to see how the QB spot shakes out between Brink and Boyd.

2BCF
08-17-2008, 01:33 AM
Sheesh, call off the dogs, they'll get this sorted out before the first game.

LOL, tend to agree. Hopefully he gets all the botched plays out of his system during the preseason.

TEXANS84
08-17-2008, 01:45 AM
Pre season phenom turned dud.

I'd be all for a player that wants to learn and that is playing. #86 Williams deserves the roster spot for his special teams play over Jacoby Jones.

Yes, I know its only the 2nd preseason game. But we learned our lessons with Mathis too. Play someone that actually contributes.

Corrosion
08-17-2008, 02:01 AM
Pre season phenom turned dud.

I'd be all for a player that wants to learn and that is playing. #86 Williams deserves the roster spot for his special teams play over Jacoby Jones.

Yes, I know its only the 2nd preseason game. But we learned our lessons with Mathis too. Play someone that actually contributes.

Williams has looked awful good when he's had the opportunity and his ST play has been outstanding . Simmons #13 looked solid tonight as well . (Sage's first pass sliding between three defenders comes to mind)


Back to JJ .... Maybe he needed a game like this to bring him back down to earth (Underground is more like it). We all know he wanted to shine tonight being the first time he's played in NO since his highschool days and he pretty much embarrassed himself ..... Maybe he learns from this game and comes away working harder than before and gets it together mentally (no more DWI's) .... A game like that can make ya think hard and long . The question is does it make JJ think long and hard .

Allstar
08-17-2008, 03:01 AM
What he should have done is thrown the ball away when he miffed the handoff. That is legal, no?

hollywood_texan
08-17-2008, 03:33 AM
Everyone on Jacoby just needs to relax. In the long run, we'll see what happens. Long run, I am referring to an entire season...

One game doesn't make or break or player.

Kaiser Toro
08-17-2008, 06:17 AM
He should not field another punt, he is an absolute liability. He was drafted to be a WR and needs to make the team as one.

We all know there are going to be some tough cuts and Jacoby's not a guarantee based on his performance, and others, over the last 18 games in my opinion.

Dancerdog
08-17-2008, 08:50 AM
I believe JJ's problems are several in nature.

1. Last night, in front of his relatives and friends, he was trying to make too much happen and got flustered. Once he messed up with the first punt, he couldn't get his head back on straight. I'm not sure confidence can be coached.

2. His late night exploits are not in the best interest of his football career. People generally don't get a DUI the first time they drive drunk. They come after numerous times. I'm not saying it couldn't be a fluke, just that the odds are against it. He needs to stay out of the bars and on the practice field and in the weight room.

3. I think he will get his game together (fingers crossed) and be a great player one day. With his natural talent, the sky's the limit.

C'mon Jacoby. We're all rooting for you. Show us what you can really accomplish in the NFL>

ubecool454
08-17-2008, 09:40 AM
OK what happens now? Nothing? A serious talking-to? what you all think?
Jacoby Jones has to much talent for us to even say the word cut. What I see is a hyperactive guy that is trying to hard. All of his problems seem happen when he is returning punts. I say just take that away from him for awhile because with his size and speed he can focus on being a serious threat a cris henry (without the off the field problems). I think Jacoby needs to calm down and when he makes a catch...act like you just made a game winning play. Calm down young man and focus....JJ might want to watch the way Andre and Andre and Walter carry themselves. I think everyone wants so bad for this guy to do good but, he has to calm down some. Jacoby reminds me of another show off that we had in houston that really went on to be one of the crowd favorites...Chris Dishman..mah man..lol

ATXtexanfan
08-17-2008, 12:03 PM
to much talent to let go, get him off PR and work him more as a WR

threetoedpete
08-17-2008, 12:30 PM
I hope so.

I'm afraid he has the football equivalent of the yips. Like Chuck Knoblauch throwing to first base. Rick Ankiel pitching. Shaq and free throws. What expert archers call "target panic (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/01/sports/olympics/01archery.html?pagewanted=print)."

It's the opposite of being in the zone. You have so much going on in your head, you lose confidence and trust in everything you do. Sometimes it is just trying too hard, and not just doing and being.

The bad thing about this is though sometimes players can work through it, sometimes it can't be coached out.

It's a horrible horrible feeling to have. I feel so bad for the guy.


I agree. Further, it isn't Jacoby Jones who is the villain here. It's Gary Kubiak. They knew what they had when they drafted the guy and they pressed him into service. They were desperate for a "playmaker" and they couldn't give him the time he needed to develop. They threw him to the wolves. It isn't Jacoby Jones' fault that the Texans had four rose fertilizer drafts in a row before he got here. Now the are caught. Are they out of time with him or do they give him the time he needs to slay the dragons in his head ? It isn't physical. It's mental. Only thing ludicrous here is expecting a raw guy to preform like a high end guy out of a big school. They pushed him and now it's blown up in their face. They lose J.J. a decent "B" draft turns into a "D" draft.

Thorn
08-17-2008, 12:40 PM
After reading all the comments, here am I with a split mind again. Sometimes I wish I was closed minded to go along with my old age, it's such a perfect fit. LOL

I agree with the comments about keeping JJ and helping him along, I also agree he's hurting more than helping us right now. He needs to get his head into the game, and the coaches need to earn their pay and help him do that.

For the time being, I'm gonna stay pissed off at JJ until he gets his act togeather. I'm gonna cheer him on to help however. As if talking to your TV ever helps anything. :yap

The Pencil Neck
08-17-2008, 12:42 PM
They lose J.J. a decent "B" draft turns into a "D" draft.

No way you said that. That's ridiculous.

1. Amobi Okoye - Starting DT, set our rookie sack record.
2. Half of Matt Schaub.
3. Jacoby Jones - Talented but may not make the team in his second year.
4. Fred Bennett - Starting CB.
5. Brandon Harrison - Backup S, may or may not make the team in his second year.
6. Kasey Studdard - Backup G.
7. Zac Diles - Starting OLB.

With or without Jones, that's a helluva draft.

TD
08-17-2008, 12:44 PM
I agree. Further, it isn't Jacoby Jones who is the villain here. It's Gary Kubiak. They knew what they had when they drafted the guy and they pressed him into service. They were desperate for a "playmaker" and they couldn't give him the time he needed to develop. They threw him to the wolves.

Time to develop into a punt returner? Isn't that what you do with speedy receivers while they develop.

Thorn
08-17-2008, 12:46 PM
No way you said that. That's ridiculous.

1. Amobi Okoye - Starting DT, set our rookie sack record.
2. Half of Matt Schaub.
3. Jacoby Jones - Talented but may not make the team in his second year.
4. Fred Bennett - Starting CB.
5. Brandon Harrison - Backup S, may or may not make the team in his second year.
6. Kasey Studdard - Backup G.
7. Zac Diles - Starting OLB.

With or without Jones, that's a helluva draft.

Yes it is a good draft with or without him. But I have a feeling JJ will make the team. If he doesn't, well, we've got plenty of good recievers without him. But we do need a good punt returner then.

bollocks
08-17-2008, 01:59 PM
Jacoby Jones is digging himself a rather large hole. First it was that second game against Tennessee and now we have two horrid performances in a row this preseason. You're foolish if you honestly believe that Jones is safe because he is a talented player. I'm willing to see what he can do for the rest of the preseason, but it's quickly looking like he isn't NFL caliber.

TexanSam
08-17-2008, 02:09 PM
I agree. Further, it isn't Jacoby Jones who is the villain here. It's Gary Kubiak. They knew what they had when they drafted the guy and they pressed him into service. They were desperate for a "playmaker" and they couldn't give him the time he needed to develop. They threw him to the wolves. It isn't Jacoby Jones' fault that the Texans had four rose fertilizer drafts in a row before he got here. Now the are caught. Are they out of time with him or do they give him the time he needs to slay the dragons in his head ? It isn't physical. It's mental. Only thing ludicrous here is expecting a raw guy to preform like a high end guy out of a big school. They pushed him and now it's blown up in their face. They lose J.J. a decent "B" draft turns into a "D" draft.

How is Kubiak's fault? He didn't put JJ as a #1 or #2 WR the entire year last year. He had him returning punts. That's it. How is that rushing a guy? As a 3rd round pick, the Texans had to play him some. You can't leave a guy like that on the bench. I don't think the Texans expected him to become a star or a blooming player overnight. I think that may have been fan expectation coming off last year's preseason. But as for his actual role with the team in 2007 I don't see any evidence that the Texans and Kubiak pressed him into service. Becoming a #4 wideout and returning punts is not being pressed into service.

threetoedpete
08-17-2008, 02:22 PM
How is Kubiak's fault? He didn't put JJ as a #1 or #2 WR the entire year last year. He had him returning punts. That's it. How is that rushing a guy? As a 3rd round pick, the Texans had to play him some. You can't leave a guy like that on the bench. I don't think the Texans expected him to become a star or a blooming player overnight. I think that may have been fan expectation coming off last year's preseason. But as for his actual role with the team in 2007 I don't see any evidence that the Texans and Kubiak pressed him into service. Becoming a #4 wideout and returning punts is not being pressed into service.

This is the type of disaster that could come back and bit us in the arse for eight to ten years. He was on the field a lot. He touched the ball a lot. After the shoulder was injured they didn't shut him down....which is what Tony Dungy or a mature NFL coach should of done....they (Kubiak) pressed him to produce. And even a blind man could of saw it after Hunter Smith slung him out of bounds...he was done. It's one thing now to say the guy is dung....but don't tell me now one knew....they all knew...go back and look at the quotes when they drafted him...Gary Kubiak mismanaged Jacoby Jones...that's the bottom line here.

It was Kubiak's responsibility to bring the guy back this summer and he failed.

Thorn
08-17-2008, 02:35 PM
It's was Kubiak's responsibility to bring the guy back this summer and he failed.

You make some good points, but, the real point is neither your or I are good enough to be an NFL coach, which is why we are doing something else for a living.

Kubiak has proven himself to be an NFL coach. He isn't perfect, but he's doing a hell of a lot better job that you and I are sitting on the couch and judging him.

threetoedpete
08-17-2008, 02:41 PM
Well thorn you can only bust out so many top end picks before you're swimming with the sharks. I don't hold anyone responsible for taking the chance on the guy. The roster was what it was when they got there. I do expect Kubiak to own up when he spits the bit. And clearly in this case he did. Worse case scenario....Dungy grabs him when he hits the waiver wire...fixes him and we're looking at J.J.'s arse for the next eight years.

TexanSam
08-17-2008, 02:43 PM
Well thorn you can only bust out so many top end picks before you're swimming with the sharks. I don't hold anyone responsible for taking the chance on the guy. The roster was what it was when they got there. I do expect Kubiak to own up when he spits the bit. And clearly in this case he did. Worse case scenario....Dungy grabs him when he hits the waiver wire...fixes him and we're looking at J.J.'s arse for the next eight years.

Or maybe JJ gets his head on straight and becomes a solid contributer to this team. I'm not pleased with JJ's performance, but I'm not going to call him a bust after his rookie season in which he was injured for a few games and the first two games of the 2008 preseason.

Hervoyel
08-17-2008, 02:44 PM
No way you said that. That's ridiculous.

1. Amobi Okoye - Starting DT, set our rookie sack record.
2. Half of Matt Schaub.
3. Jacoby Jones - Talented but may not make the team in his second year.
4. Fred Bennett - Starting CB.
5. Brandon Harrison - Backup S, may or may not make the team in his second year.
6. Kasey Studdard - Backup G.
7. Zac Diles - Starting OLB.

With or without Jones, that's a helluva draft.

What he said (talking to threetoedpete). I can't believe you even used the word "villain" in the same sentence with "Kubiak".

I want Jacoby Jones to be everything all of you want him to be and I'm sure the Texans want him to be that too. The fact however is that a guy who is exciting every once in a while, runs very fast, and turns the ball over a lot isn't special.

You know what that guy is?
You really want to know who that guy is?

At BEST he's Corey Bradford with Green Bay before we signed him. Sometimes that guy makes the turn and becomes a starter in this league and sometimes he bounces around the league for a while if he can return kicks.

Jones is going to have to work through this and dedicate himself to playing smarter than he has been. He hasn't been getting drilled or slammed. He's just been thinking too much (and/or too little) and he's committing mental lapses. He's got another year of that to give and then the Texans will let him go if he doesn't focus and get his act together. Any more time than that and he becomes the Texans version of Brad Lidge and no good can come from that.

Thorn
08-17-2008, 02:46 PM
Worse case scenario....Dungy grabs him when he hits the waiver wire...fixes him and we're looking at J.J.'s arse for the next eight years.


Up until that, I was willing to debate the point. Now I hate you. LOL

(not really) JJ will eventually turn out to be a good player, hopefully it's with us. The kid has talent, but his head isn't right now. He needs some fixin'.

GP
08-17-2008, 02:54 PM
Why would JJ get cut?

Wouldn't we trade him, rather than an outright release?

It's not like he's that bad, guys. Just having some handle issues...and even if WE can't fix him, somebody will want a shot at JJ.

Cutting JJ would be foolish. Kubiak can't fix him? Then at least get something for him. Draft pick OR player.

Cut JJ? Nope.

threetoedpete
08-17-2008, 02:56 PM
It is the head coaches responsibility to develop the talent he is given. Period. I'm not advocating we dump Kubiak. What I'm tiring to point out is that they have failed with this prospect...a third round pick. I said at the time it was wrong to press the guy. I warned this would be the consequence if they pushed him too far too fast. Well now it's reached critical mass. In a year when they don't have a spare roster spot....they've got a hard choice to make with the guy.
My line is if you knew this prospect was raw....and you didn't have the time to develop him....why in the world is the prospect the villian here ? Not Jones' fault.
The guy was what he was when they drafted him. The guy is tiring....too hard from my view. Each time he makes a mistake...he's pressing harder. And then makes another mistake.

And psyches ....that's Kubiak's province. It's his job to get into the prospects brain and fix him. His job to manage the talent.

GP
08-17-2008, 03:10 PM
JJ showed on the deep pass in the Broncos preseason game (last week) that he can get behind DBs and he can make the catch. That's the sort of thing they need to do with this guy: Get him down the field, deep, and snag the ball.

For all the bad plays that are being magnified in this thread...there's also some good plays that he's made. I remember one last season when he darted across the middle on a pass play and IIRC made a highlight reel catch that was behind him and possibly one-handed at the same time. I think that was a critical catch that extended a drive. Remember that one? I think it was mid-field or so. He's capable. A lot of draft picks aren't even capable.

All I am saying is that Owen Daniels has fumbled, and at critical points of a drive when he had the first down and tried to do more than what he should have. While furious at the time that OD fumbled, I also knew that he means more ON this team than off it. I think the same way about JJ.

Is he worthy of being a top 4 WR on our team? Not yet. But that doesn't mean he ought to be cut. You cut guys who are cancers in the locker room. You cut guys who go out and suck it up during camp and act like they don't care or that they are above the criticism. You cut guys who try really hard, and probably out-hustle others, but who wouldn't be able to sustain the crush of talent that they are up against when the real games roll around.

You might not start JJ. You might not even get him out there on the field at all, except for a few plays a game. You certainly try and control and contain the damage that his messed up mental state is in right now--he's just drowning in a sea of constant mistakes--because he is capable of turning the corner. It's worth a roster spot here, cuz I guarantee you he WON'T clear waivers and make our PS.

But you don't cut him. You trade him, at worst. You get something in return because he might gel at some point on another team.

Who knows when J is going to mature? I don't. Everyone is different.

markn
08-17-2008, 03:18 PM
There will be some tough choices getting the roster down to 57.

We're a little lop-sided right now with a very strong WR corps, with at least one good WR facing the cut. On the other hand, we've got many RBs, and I'd not be overly upset to cut any of them. The secondary picks itself unfortunately, and remains our weakest position.

JJ is a victim of the Texans strength in depth at WR. He won't be kept for punt returns alone. If he is cut, I'll consider it a great shame, because the kid's clearly got talent. He's running out of time to regain his confidence and the other WRs are all performing. Jacoby needs a big game against the cowgirls.

GP
08-17-2008, 03:19 PM
It's like people are pissed that JJ isn't the star we know he's capable of being...so it's OFF WITH HIS HEAD!!!! CUT HIM!!!

Jeesh...relax a little.

In my book, he gets this season to turn the corner. If he can't hack it by year's end...then I understand if Smithiak feels they need to move him somewhere else for everybody's emotional well-being.

Cutting him is really not an option. I think people are thinking we have more "talent" than what we really have, so the thought is that we can't afford to keep JJ because there are other superstars waiting in the wings to take his place. That's an inflated sense of where we're at.

Good grief. We need a roster spot for JJ? Then cut Ahman Green. Heck, cut Chris Brown, too, and we'll have even more roster spots. We have two running backs on this team who aren't worth JACK and yet cutting JJ is a serious option?

:wild:

GP
08-17-2008, 03:25 PM
It is the head coaches responsibility to develop the talent he is given. Period. I'm not advocating we dump Kubiak. What I'm tiring to point out is that they have failed with this prospect...a third round pick. I said at the time it was wrong to press the guy. I warned this would be the consequence if they pushed him too far too fast. Well now it's reached critical mass. In a year when they don't have a spare roster spot....they've got a hard choice to make with the guy.
My line is if you knew this prospect was raw....and you didn't have the time to develop him....why in the world is the prospect the villian here ? Not Jones' fault.
The guy was what he was when they drafted him. The guy is tiring....too hard from my view. Each time he makes a mistake...he's pressing harder. And then makes another mistake.

And psyches ....that's Kubiak's province. It's his job to get into the prospects brain and fix him. His job to manage the talent.

Everybody gets it wrong every now and then. So if Kubiak got it wrong on this one, it's not the end of the world to me. Like I said in the Sage/Schaub thread(s): Kubiak and Smith have gotten it right a lot more than they have gotten wrong. I don't think Kubiak is wildly mismanaging anyone.

I think JJ's raw talent is attractive to a team such as ours, and I don't think it was wrong of Kubiak to allow JJ to show his stuff. That's what football players want to do: They want to dazzle the world.

IMO, Kubiak shouldn't be blamed for letting JJ have a shot at it.

JJ does need to be held accountable. When this guy "figures it out," he's going to be awesome. Only an injury or a really bizarre off-the-field behavior issue is going to derail him. At some point, he's going to make it all click. Just like a timing belt.

He has more raw, unenriched talent in his pinkie than other draft choices this team has reached on before. Just my .02, though.

The Pencil Neck
08-17-2008, 03:34 PM
Before we started playing the preseason games, our WR corp was considered to be: AJ, KW, AD, and JJ. IF we carried a fifth receiver, the job was Mr. Anderson's to lose although he was getting competition in camp from a bunch of other guys.

After the first preseason game, it was pretty obvious that Mr. Anderson HAS to be on the team and may even be in the 4th WR spot instead of JJ. But JJ did have that beauty of a 41 yard reception.

After the second preseason game, Mr. Anderson is the 4th WR. And JJ is having concentration issues.

Is Kubiak screwing up with his treatment of JJ? I don't think so. He's trying to develop the player. If you make him do too much to quick. you can break him. If you DON'T put some pressure on him at some point, you can break him that way. Kubiak may end up breaking JJ. JJ may not step up. But that's not a sign of the end of the Smithiak era. It's one player who didn't develop the way we wanted.

There are plenty of other players who HAVE developed under Kubiak.

Right now, with all the good play we're getting at WR, it almost becomes a question on whether we carry 6 instead of 5 wideouts. JJ is almost definitely on the team but if he continues to make mental mistakes, the chance is there that he could be cut. I don't think it's a very big chance.

KEYE SUX
08-17-2008, 04:06 PM
I'll admit that I jumped on the JJ bandwagon last offseason. I talked him up to some cowgirl fans before the preseason game with them. I'm not sure if it was his first major injury, but JJ was never the same since seperating his shoulder last year. He seems to dance and hesitate too much. He needs to clear his mind and play like he knows how. This will take time but should happen nevertheless. I think it would be a shame to see him go but that is not up to us anyway. He still shows glimpses of stardom at WR even though he does not get all that many ops at it. He was drafted to be a WR not just a return guy. I wish nothing but the best for him and hope he can turn it around.

Hervoyel
08-17-2008, 04:13 PM
It is the head coaches responsibility to develop the talent he is given. Period. I'm not advocating we dump Kubiak. What I'm tiring to point out is that they have failed with this prospect...a third round pick. I said at the time it was wrong to press the guy. I warned this would be the consequence if they pushed him too far too fast. Well now it's reached critical mass. In a year when they don't have a spare roster spot....they've got a hard choice to make with the guy.
My line is if you knew this prospect was raw....and you didn't have the time to develop him....why in the world is the prospect the villian here ? Not Jones' fault.
The guy was what he was when they drafted him. The guy is tiring....too hard from my view. Each time he makes a mistake...he's pressing harder. And then makes another mistake.

And psyches ....that's Kubiak's province. It's his job to get into the prospects brain and fix him. His job to manage the talent.

Which is all fine and dandy except that some guys won't grow up and some guys won't take their coaching and a "project" in the NFL is a guy who isn't going to contribute this year but will next year because the heat will be on by then. This isn't the mid eighties or the late seventies. This is 2008 and JJ is right on schedule for a small college project player on the team that drafted him.

Now in a purely hypothetical scenario where he does absolutely nothing this year, keeps fumbling the ball on punt returns and notches the odd catch here and there he goes into camp with his butt on the hot seat. If he doesn't get it straightened out by the time we cut our 2009 roster down to 53 guys then he's out of here. The way the league works today somebody will give him another shot and maybe the release might be the thing that gets his attention (in this purely hypothetical scenario) or maybe he does a Jerome Mathis and he turns around and blows that chance too. Nobody knows and I'd like to think that JJ would get it together in such a case.

But please man, quit acting like a second year player is supposed to still be handled with kid gloves. There isn't a team in this league who would deal with JJ any different than we have. Nobody has time for it anymore and he isn't a first overall pick like Carr was. Nobody is going to get fired or even chewed out if he doesn't pan out. He was (and remains) an exciting "possibility" and we all hope he works out but if he doesn't he's going to join a near endless supply of fast guys who lack the maturity to play in the NFL. It'll suck but we'll move on.

steelbtexan
08-17-2008, 04:24 PM
JJ needs to be a pro do film study, practice running routes, & stay in the weight room not the bars.

Bill Walsh had faith in JR because he was mature. Not getting DWI's & hanging out in bars.

JJ is going to have to work hard & live clean to regain KUBES trust.

Pete one draft pick that doesn't work out doesn't mean Smithiak are doing a lousy job. Life is hard when you make one minor mistake @ your job & people say you don't know what your doing. I'm sure you've never made mistakes @ your job. LOL.

We are talking about a 2nd year small school guy. They are'nt going to cut him. In fact they continued to let him return punts & learn from his mistakes. Good coaching IMO

GP
08-17-2008, 04:26 PM
From Sunday 3:30 (err, 3:50'ish) presser:

It appears JJ is definitely on the bubble with Kubiak.

Us fans can wish him onto the roster, but it doesn't look good.

Kubiak thinks Harry Williams might nab that spot. And then what do we do with Tim Carter? Does anyone think Tim might get a 6th spot if Kubiak goes with 6 WR...leaving JJ out of the picture completely?

Verrrry interesting.

Corrosion
08-17-2008, 04:35 PM
It is the head coaches responsibility to develop the talent he is given. Period. I'm not advocating we dump Kubiak. What I'm tiring to point out is that they have failed with this prospect...a third round pick. I said at the time it was wrong to press the guy. I warned this would be the consequence if they pushed him too far too fast. Well now it's reached critical mass. In a year when they don't have a spare roster spot....they've got a hard choice to make with the guy.
My line is if you knew this prospect was raw....and you didn't have the time to develop him....why in the world is the prospect the villian here ? Not Jones' fault.
The guy was what he was when they drafted him. The guy is tiring....too hard from my view. Each time he makes a mistake...he's pressing harder. And then makes another mistake.

And psyches ....that's Kubiak's province. It's his job to get into the prospects brain and fix him. His job to manage the talent.



Its not the fact that the kid is raw , its that he has his head on things other than football . Rather than working his ass off to get better he's out in the clubs , falling asleep at the wheel and getting a dwi . You point the finger at Kubiak all ya want but the onus is squarely upon JJ to make the most of this opportunity .... This is the NFL not some semi-pro league where you can get by on being the better athlete .... He's gotta want this more than anything , he hasnt shown us that yet and it shows up in his play.

The Pencil Neck
08-17-2008, 04:36 PM
Kubiak thinks Harry Williams might nab that spot. And then what do we do with Tim Carter? Does anyone think Tim might get a 6th spot if Kubiak goes with 6 WR...leaving JJ out of the picture completely?

Verrrry interesting.

Before preseason, it looked like David Anderson was in a tough battle for the WR5 position with Tim Carter and Leron McCoy and I thought that Harry Williams had dropped back a bit.

Now... like you said, David Anderson is the 4th and JJ has to battle with Carter, McCoy, and Williams for 5 and possibly 6.

TexanSam
08-17-2008, 04:38 PM
So Kubiak said Harry Williams has been great on special teams but has he gotten any reps as a WR?

stiff
08-17-2008, 04:38 PM
When you are talking "bubble" guys and 5th and 6th receivers what you do on special teams will determine your fate. If JJ does not step up next week unfortunately, most likely he will be out.

Getting the roster down this year will be the hardest decision in this franchises history. Which is a great sign, guys that you cut will potentially go to other teams and could be starters for them.

Specnatz
08-17-2008, 06:15 PM
It is the head coaches responsibility to develop the talent he is given. Period. I'm not advocating we dump Kubiak. What I'm tiring to point out is that they have failed with this prospect...a third round pick. I said at the time it was wrong to press the guy. I warned this would be the consequence if they pushed him too far too fast. Well now it's reached critical mass. In a year when they don't have a spare roster spot....they've got a hard choice to make with the guy.
My line is if you knew this prospect was raw....and you didn't have the time to develop him....why in the world is the prospect the villian here ? Not Jones' fault.
The guy was what he was when they drafted him. The guy is tiring....too hard from my view. Each time he makes a mistake...he's pressing harder. And then makes another mistake.

And psyches ....that's Kubiak's province. It's his job to get into the prospects brain and fix him. His job to manage the talent.

WRONG!! It is the coaches job to instruct a player on what he is doing that he should not be and also to give positive re-enforcement on the things they are doing right. It is up to the player to take that info apply it. When a guy succeeds I never hear about how it is because the coaches coddled him. I do hear how the coaches were harder on them and stressed what they needed to work on (Meaning the player).

Jerry Rice another small school guy who had fumble problems his rookie year worked harder longer than anyone else to get better. It was not on the coaches he put it on himself.

WOW I can not believe I am hearsing these excuses for a player.

Corrosion
08-17-2008, 08:07 PM
So Kubiak said Harry Williams has been great on special teams but has he gotten any reps as a WR?


I dont recall seeing Williams getting game time at WR ... I do however recall seeing him make a couple nice plays on ST.


WRONG!! It is the coaches job to instruct a player on what he is doing that he should not be and also to give positive re-enforcement on the things they are doing right. It is up to the player to take that info apply it. When a guy succeeds I never hear about how it is because the coaches coddled him. I do hear how the coaches were harder on them and stressed what they needed to work on (Meaning the player).

Jerry Rice another small school guy who had fumble problems his rookie year worked harder longer than anyone else to get better. It was not on the coaches he put it on himself.

WOW I can not believe I am hearsing these excuses for a player.

:goodpost:

We all know what excuses are like .... Kubiak wont take excuses from his players , You can take that to the bank .... We as fans should expect a professional to act the part .

TheRealJoker
08-17-2008, 08:34 PM
When there is this much heated debate about a 5 WR spot then obviously the player in question has some serious potential.

We can put Davis in to return punts, he wont be as "potentially" explosive as JJ in that role because he's more of a KR but he'd be solid. The real question here is "do you think JJ has enough potential to keep at # 5?

I think he does, worst case scenario if he puts out 2 more duds then I think we keep him as the 5th or 6th WR and just dont suit him up until he proves to the coaches that we can depend on him. You take what a competitor loves most (presumably football) and that will in theory bring him back where he needs to be mentally/physically/spiritually or whatever.

09 is when he's in danger of being cut however.

Carr Bombed
08-17-2008, 08:53 PM
It is the head coaches responsibility to develop the talent he is given. Period. I'm not advocating we dump Kubiak. What I'm tiring to point out is that they have failed with this prospect...a third round pick. I said at the time it was wrong to press the guy. I warned this would be the consequence if they pushed him too far too fast.

"Pushed him too far too fast" LMFAO, what the hell are you talking about?

We drafted him in the third round and then "ONLY ASKED HIM TO RETURN PUNTS."

I hate to break this to you, but if you think that's pressing a player then every damn coach in this league is pressing young prospects around the NFL. Nobody asked Jacoby to start did they? Nobody expected Jacoby to start did they? Well guess what, if your not starting, your playing special teams........everybody either starts or is expected to help the team elsewhere.

The fact that Jacoby is struggling right now doesn't have crap to do with Kubiak pressing him, it's the fact that he's just a young player who's struggling to get his head in the game.

I mean what's next......are you going to say Kubiak is pressing Molden too far when he's asked to contribute on special teams?

Well now it's reached critical mass. In a year when they don't have a spare roster spot....they've got a hard choice to make with the guy.

and that's a bad thing? I'm glad our team has reached a point where below average to average players are being pushed out of jobs......under Capers Jacoby might actually of been able to start.


My line is if you knew this prospect was raw....and you didn't have the time to develop him....why in the world is the prospect the villian here ? Not Jones' fault.

First of all, just about every mid-round pick is raw, especially players with Jacoby's physical #s.

Second, How was Kubiak and Smith supposed to realize that Kevin Walter/Andre Davis/David Anderson would all step up their game and come in, work their asses off, study film, and do every little thing to improve their game............the things that Jacoby should've done, that's where the blame lies.

The guy was what he was when they drafted him. The guy is tiring....too hard from my view. Each time he makes a mistake...he's pressing harder. And then makes another mistake.

And psyches ....that's Kubiak's province. It's his job to get into the prospects brain and fix him. His job to manage the talent.

It's Kubiak's job to give that prospect as many chances to succeed as possible (Kubiak has done that......that was the whole reason why he even called the reverse play), it's Jacoby's job to take advantage of the chances given to him..........like every other WR has done.

It's not Kubiak's job to be Jacoby's sports psychologist when he also has to coach and evaluate the play of 79 other players, he doesn't have time to hold Jacoby's hand...(that's really up to his position coach anyways)....like Kubiak said, this is a big boy's league and Jacoby needs to step it up.

Some players are made for the spotlight on the big stage and some are not, just because in the end, the game might be too big for Jacoby..(don't get me wrong, I hope Jacoby turns it around, but)..that does not mean Kubiak did anything wrong. Sometimes the spotlight is just too bright for some players.

It seems like the only thing that the posters (who are making excuses for Jacoby's play thus far) want to do is pass blame elsewhere (by lashing out at posters like me or blame the coaches), instead of holding Jacoby accountable for his poor play. However one thing they need to remember is that there are dozens of other players trying to make this team (some of which are clearly outplaying Jacoby) and it would be a absolute horrible messege to send, if Kubiak gave special treatment to Jacoby. That's the kind've thing that could plant a bad seed in the lockeroom.

Marcus
08-17-2008, 08:54 PM
WRONG!! WOW I can not believe I am hearsing these excuses for a player.

Well, I can. It's quite typical around here to give players all the credit in the world when they play well, but if they don't, it's not their fault, it's the coach's fault.

The coaches do lead these horses to water, but it's as if we expect them to make them drink.

This prevailing train of thought that if Jacoby Jones gets cut, then it's Kubiak's "fault" . . . absolute nonsense, but sadly, just typical.

Corrosion
08-18-2008, 01:05 AM
In practice this week, David Anderson and Andre Davis will field punts. Anderson has already moved ahead of Jones in the pecking order at receiver.

Link (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/5949727.html)

threetoedpete
08-18-2008, 02:46 AM
t seems like the only thing that the posters (who are making excuses for Jacoby's play thus far) want to do is pass blame elsewhere (by lashing out at posters like me or blame the coaches), instead of holding Jacoby accountable for his poor play. However one thing they need to remember is that there are dozens of other players trying to make this team (some of which are clearly outplaying Jacoby) and it would be a absolute horrible messege to send, if Kubiak gave special treatment to Jacoby. That's the kind've thing that could plant a bad seed in the lockeroom.



that's the whole point Jack A$$ they knew going in that he would need "special" treatment...they said it themselves at the time they picked him. May be expedient now, to wash our hands of him. No secret to why this franchise has sucked for six years now....they blow picks faster than a Cleveland HS Drama teacher blows johns. Kubiack got greedy with the kid and now he's f'ked up. Talent wasn't the problem here. Development of the talent was. There aren't dozens of players with this guys athletic ability out there. They are rare. The horrible message is telling the team they will put up with mediocre performances all over the roster over rare athletes who are out of time.


The reason we end up with these suckie contracts like Weaver's and now Reeves' is that no one with any hint of talent wants to come here. So they got to over pay for also rans to shore up the team. No secret as to why the defense gets why better the closer they(the other team) get to the Texan's goal line. The field shrinks and it hides the many athletic deficiencies of our back seven. Less field to cover the less athlete you need to cover it.

Well you're loaded this summer with talent at WR. So making the cut with J.J. is not going to hurt to much ? We aren't going any where this year with out him on board. Further he will become another in a very long line of personnel blunders we've made over seven years. We had him...had the rare guy and turned him lose only to watch him develop with another team and take them to where they wanted to go. Can't keep on squandering talent and believe there is any hope here. If they don't get him back, Jones will be strike one for Smithiack.

Carr Bombed
08-18-2008, 03:31 AM
that's the whole point Jack A$$ they knew going in that he would need "special" treatment...they said it themselves at the time they picked him. May be expedient now, to wash our hands of him. No secret to why this franchise has sucked for six years now....they blow picks faster than a Cleveland HS Drama teacher blows johns. Kubiack got greedy with the kid and now he's f'ked up. Talent wasn't the problem here. Development of the talent was. There aren't dozens of players with this guys athletic ability out there. They are rare. The horrible message is telling the team they will put up with mediocre performances all over the roater over rare athletes who are out of time.

You're seriously off your meds and who the heck are you calling a jackass?

First of all.....Kubiak never said they had to baby this guy, that's basically what your asking for. They said he's rough around the edges and needed work, but has potential......which was the whole damn reason why he was just asked and expected to return punts.

Second, you still can't give a damn example on how the hell Kubiak "pressed" or "got greedy with Jacoby" or how they forced him into action. Telling a 3rd round pick to just return punts is not "pressing him". It's one of the most basic things to do while he learns the WR position in the NFL. Nobody expected the kid to play WR from day 1 and nobody expected him to start from day 1........I still don't get what the hell your talking about when you said Kubiak was "pressing Jacoby too far" or "getting greedy" with him.

All he was asked to do was return punts and if he can't even secure a punt how the hell is Kubiak supposed to get him to the level where he's becoming a impact player at the WR position?


The reason we end up with these suckie contracts like Weaver's and now Reeves' is that no one with any hint of talent wants to come here. So they got to over pay for also rans to shore up the team.

Well under Casserly that was the main reason for the bad contracts......that and the fact that Casserly was just a bad GM.

The problem with the lack of splash free agent signings from Rick Smith is, because we still haven't cleared all the bad cap from the Casserly days, pretty much the only peices we can afford right now are stop gap players.

No secret as to why the defense gets why better the closer they(the other team) get to the Texan's goal line. The field shrinks and it hides the many athletic deficiencies of our back seven. Less field to cover the less athlete you need to cover it.

What you just said about our defense could be said about every damn defense in the league....there's a reason why teams spend so much damn time on redzone offense. Having said that though, I do agree with you about lacking some athleticism on defense, but we've only had two drafts under Rick Smith (three dafts under Kubiak) and they have been addressing that issue.......Mario Williams, DeMeco Ryans, Amobi Okoye, Fred Bennett, Zach Diles, Antwaun Molden, Xavier Adibi, and Frank Okam.

Have you even been paying attention to their drafts over the last 3 seasons....seriously. There's only so many damn holes you can fill, (especially without two 2nd round picks) and I'm sure I don't even have to tell you this, but......our previous crack team left us with a shit load of holes.

Well you're loaded this summer with talent at WR. So making the cut with J.J. is not going to hurt to much ? We aren't going any where this year with out him on board.

Wait a second I get it.....your just being sarcastic right? genius.....I mean, please tell me your being sarcastic...

So now our season is going to ride and die with Jacoby Jones.....is that what you said? Our season next year hinges on Jacoby Jones being on the roster....wow.


Further he will become another in a very long line of personnel blunders we've made over seven years. We had him...had the rare guy and turned him lose only to watch him develop with another team and take them to where they wanted to go. Can't keep on squandering talent and believe there is any hope here. If they don't get him back, Jones will be strike one for Smithiack.

Well unlike you I like to seperate the Capers/Casserly era from the Kubiak/Smith era........it's only fair to our new front office since they were busy coaching and help building playoff teams while the other two crack pots were busy derailing this entire team.

If Jacoby happens to turn out to be a bust, it's a busted 3rd round pick WHICH HAPPENS ALL THE TIME. The important thing to do is however hit more than you miss on your mid round picks and Kubiak and Smith have done that. It's not like Jacoby was a first rounder and a sure lock player in the NFL.

Also about your previous statement on how "There aren't dozens of players with this guys athletic ability out there. They are rare." That is a load of bullcrap. Players like Jacoby Jones come into the NFL just as fast as they leave the NFL......which is actually pretty often.

I mean don't get the wrong impression, I'm not wishing the guy will get cut or anything and I'm actually rooting for him, but I'm also realistic to what the hell is going on and what's going on is....

Gary Kubiak is NOT coaching or PRESSING Jacoby Jones off the team........Jacoby Jones is PLAYING himself off the team. He needs to step up his game, these next two games are very important to him.

Now goodnight Sir.

threetoedpete
08-18-2008, 03:41 AM
Well when the guy has a ripped up shoulder and as you say was not asked to be a front line producer by the HC supposedly....somebody was defiantly pushing somebody the last nine games. Kubiak is more than just culpable here. The fact that you can't or won't see it makes you short sighted. Not me.

barrett
08-18-2008, 04:52 AM
he won't be cut. he still falls into the "project" catagory. with Johnson, Walter, Davis & Anderson playing well you can take some extra time with Jones.

Go Texans.

Brandon420tx
08-18-2008, 08:49 AM
It seems like the only thing that the posters (who are making excuses for Jacoby's play thus far) want to do is pass blame elsewhere (by lashing out at posters like me or blame the coaches), instead of holding Jacoby accountable for his poor play. However one thing they need to remember is that there are dozens of other players trying to make this team (some of which are clearly outplaying Jacoby) and it would be a absolute horrible messege to send, if Kubiak gave special treatment to Jacoby. That's the kind've thing that could plant a bad seed in the lockeroom.

WHOA!! Hold your ponies big fella.

The only thing remotely close to making an excuse so far is say our punt return blocking has been suspect on the majority of his attempted returns. The only thing I asked for was people tone down on their vehement attacks I've only seen reserved for DC.

Texecutioner
08-18-2008, 11:31 AM
I agree. Further, it isn't Jacoby Jones who is the villain here. It's Gary Kubiak. They knew what they had when they drafted the guy and they pressed him into service. They were desperate for a "playmaker" and they couldn't give him the time he needed to develop. They threw him to the wolves. It isn't Jacoby Jones' fault that the Texans had four rose fertilizer drafts in a row before he got here. Now the are caught. Are they out of time with him or do they give him the time he needs to slay the dragons in his head ? It isn't physical. It's mental. Only thing ludicrous here is expecting a raw guy to preform like a high end guy out of a big school. They pushed him and now it's blown up in their face. They lose J.J. a decent "B" draft turns into a "D" draft.

This is comical to me. How on earth is it all Kubiak's fault because this guy is fumbling kicks and hurting the Texans in pre season games??? Kubiak has worked really hard to get this guy going from what I've read, and it's up to the player to make his own strides at this point. Kubiak didn't throw him out to the wolves like you say. You're talking about him being PUSHED TO HARD!? He's a football player in the NFL for god sakes, they had better be pushing him. There hasn't been any over whelming expectations for him at this point, and if he can't handle being pushed hard to succeed, then he doesn't need to be in the NFL.

Newsflash, he is a second year player now and it's time to show why you were drafted. I wasn't one that completely bought into all of that hype in pre season last year, because it was pre season. He looked great, but we didn't see any of that in the regular season. He was a rookie that was hurt for a while, so many of us have been patient. However, he's screwing up plays now that he shouldn't. I don't care if his family and friends were at the game, and he wanted to make a big SPLASH of a play. He screwed up, and then did it again the very next week. He's in the dog house until he shows the coaching staff why he's on the team.

He has not shown that he is a lot better than many of our WR's. I could care less what some rookie did in pre season last year. I'm into what I'm seeing right now, and he isn't impressing anyone, ESPECIALLY his coach.

I like what I'm seeing out of David Anderson. He seems like a capable guy that will make the plays when he has the opportunities. I liked some of those catches he made the other night and last week. No way JJ should be above David Anderson at this point.

BigBull17
08-18-2008, 11:36 AM
You know, I would only really start worrying when these fumbles start happening in the regular season. Right now, he just needs to learn 'grab the ball then run not run then grab the ball'.

Im worried because he HAS done this inthe regular season, and its not getting any better. The air forced his fumble against Denver. Its poor ball handling skills, which he shouldnt have at this level. If he doesnt get his head out of his ass, he's gonna be watching David Anderson do what he should be doing.

BigBull17
08-18-2008, 12:12 PM
No way you said that. That's ridiculous.

1. Amobi Okoye - Starting DT, set our rookie sack record.
2. Half of Matt Schaub.
3. Jacoby Jones - Talented but may not make the team in his second year.
4. Fred Bennett - Starting CB.
5. Brandon Harrison - Backup S, may or may not make the team in his second year.
6. Kasey Studdard - Backup G.
7. Zac Diles - Starting OLB.

With or without Jones, that's a helluva draft.

Agreed. Anytime you get starters with your 4th and 7th round pick, you're doing something right. Also Studard and Frye are quality back ups.

Carr Bombed
08-18-2008, 01:15 PM
Well when the guy has a ripped up shoulder and as you say was not asked to be a front line producer by the HC supposedly....somebody was defiantly pushing somebody the last nine games. Kubiak is more than just culpable here. The fact that you can't or won't see it makes you short sighted. Not me.

He messed up his shoulder RETURNING PUNTS, this is football and injuries happen. I'm not the one who's short sighted here. This is the NFL and asking a 3rd round pick to return punts is not out of the ordinary.....every coach around the league does the same damn thing. (on a 53 man roster, you either start, backup, or play special teams) I mean if you don't even think that Jacoby should've been returning punts you're making me question the potential that you've been raving about. If it's "pressing" to ask Jacoby to just return punts and just do special teams, how the hell are we ever to expect Jacoby Jones to become a consistent WR?

Polo
08-18-2008, 01:20 PM
Jacoby's going to have to have a king sized melt down to not make the team...

Besides the fumbles (I know fumbles aren't a small problem) he's been playing well.

If Jacoby keeps showing an inability to hold on to the ball look for his playing time to be drastically reduced until he earns it back, not get cut...

I'm done with this topic. It's silly IMO.

gtexan02
08-18-2008, 01:22 PM
lol people are arguing like they are the agent of Jacoby or Rick Smith.

Jacoby has a lot of talent. He has made some boneheaded moves.

If he has the desire to be a football player, he'll be on the team. If he doesn't show that desire, he'll be cut this year or next. its as simple as that

alphajoker
08-18-2008, 01:48 PM
Maybe Jacoby will have the opposite happen to him this year as opposed to last year where he tore it up in the preseason and then came back to earth in the regular season. Bad 2008 preseason equals great 2008 regular season. :thinking:

The Pencil Neck
08-18-2008, 01:59 PM
I'm just going to throw this out here.

Jacoby has made some plays as a WR this preseason. Remember the 41 yarder against the Broncos and the 20 yarder against the Saints.

But at least in that first preseason game, Jacoby missed at least one block and allowed the CB to release and stuff the run. I don't think that's going to go over very well considering his other mental screwups.

I don't see him getting released unless he totally and completely melts down in the next two games but that is a possibility.

Hooston Texan
08-18-2008, 02:19 PM
I think there are a number of separate issues at work here. Addressing them, in order of severity:

1. Should Jones make the team? I think he will, but 53 is a small number of roster spots.

2. Should Jones be returning punts? Before noticing this thread, I made a post about Jones being an apprentice: learning the WR trade while contributing in the present by returning punts. The problem is that a fumbled punt is about the most devastating screw-up that can happen on the field. Your defense has made a stop, but now you make them go straight back onto the field and (usually) in the shadow of your own endzone. I wonder what the winning percentage is for teams that lose a fumbled punt--my guess is that it is very, very low. Still, the problem is now beyond the fumbles--I haven't seen this mentioned, but the worst decision Jones made in the Superdome was on the last punt--the thing landed on the about the 15, but he made no effort to catch it. As a result, the Saints easily pinned us to our 3. That's inexcusable. But his errors aren't due to a lack of talent--it's a lack of focuse and discipline--his three terrible punt-return plays came when he broke the 3 cardinal rules of punt returners (field the ball if beyond your own 8, catch-and-secure, run straight up the field). If he can't learn those most basic of rules, I wonder how he can be expected to handle the myriad of reads that a WR must make.

3. Is he our fourth WR? I think David Anderson's answered that question for us.

4. Is he our fifth WR? Well, if he's not returning punts, do we want to keep a guy who does not contribute anywhere else on the team--so I guess this goes back to question number 1. I think he'll get this year, but he better show that he gets it soon because the coaches have been awfully generous with their praise of the other WRs.

Finally, and this may just be me, but it makes me insane to hear an excuse that involves having your psyche messed up by another team's @#*#@$!!! PUNTER!! Freak injuries happen, but if you are not there mentally because of something a PUNTER did to you, it's probably time to start selling insurance. If Hunter Smith put JJ into a funk, I can't imagine what, say, a Roy Williams would do to him.

New_Texans
08-18-2008, 03:00 PM
I bet this was the same talk going on when Jerry Rice was having his issues. I hope someone tells Jacoby that at some point and tell him that he just has to work to get better at holding on to the ball.


edit: also, i think this talk about D. Anderson is premature. He has to show that he can do this in the regular season on a regular bases. He has to be our Wes Welker so to speak...right now hes only done this against 2nd and 3rd teamers....and anything on the Saints pass defense isnt all that to praise. D. Anderson is exciting and he has been VERY consistent when compared to Jones but i just don't know what hes going to do in the regular season because he plays like this each preseason.

hadaad
08-18-2008, 04:00 PM
The horrible message is telling the team they will put up with mediocre performances all over the roater over rare athletes who are out of time.


The reason we end up with these suckie contracts like Weaver's and now Reeves' is that no one with any hint of talent wants to come here.



First, I have to say that if you are a rare performer, you show it on the field or not at all. Yes, he is a good athlete, but if he's being outperformed by people who are, in your own words, mediocre, that tells something about him.

Second, with Weaver and Reeves, who else would you have brought in here under the same circumstances? They believed that they were going to take Bush, and they needed defensive line help. They also wanted a cornerback to be almost a placeholder starter until Dunta came back who would then slip into a nickel position. You don't sign Asante Samuel (assuming anyone other than Philadelphia ever had a crack at him) for all those millions to fill that role. Who, then? I don't know.

The NFL is a meritocracy. If you don't get the job done, you don't keep your job. If your job is to return punts and you're failing at that, you're probably not going to keep your job. I don't think they've asked very much of Jacoby Jones. You look at a guy like David Anderson who was a seventh round pick. What was asked of him? Come in, bust your ass and you probably still won't make the roster. How encouraging was that? And he still came in and took care of it. You can only do so much coddling of the youngsters. This isn't David Carr, thrust into the fire.

I think Jacoby can turn it around and that he probably will but if they do decide that they've seen enough and he doesn't make the final cut, I'll trust Kubiak and Smith and that they've done for him what they can.

76Texan
08-18-2008, 04:26 PM
B.J. Sams was an UDFA for the Ravens in 2004.
I read in a book (where the writer got to spend the whole year with the team) about how he never dropped a ball in practice.

Yet he fumbled 5 times during games that season.
The Ravens didn't give up on him.
And he was a pretty good one for them until his injury last year.

I hope JJ turned it around.

Corrosion
08-18-2008, 04:53 PM
I bet this was the same talk going on when Jerry Rice was having his issues. I hope someone tells Jacoby that at some point and tell him that he just has to work to get better at holding on to the ball.


edit: also, i think this talk about D. Anderson is premature. He has to show that he can do this in the regular season on a regular bases. He has to be our Wes Welker so to speak...right now hes only done this against 2nd and 3rd teamers....and anything on the Saints pass defense isnt all that to praise. D. Anderson is exciting and he has been VERY consistent when compared to Jones but i just don't know what hes going to do in the regular season because he plays like this each preseason.

I wish people would Quit trying to compare this kid to Rice . He may be as physically gifted as Rice but he doesnt have the work ethic nor the maturity .

Texan_Bill
08-18-2008, 05:00 PM
I want JJ to return punts....... PERIOD!!







JJ Moses that is. :smiliedance:

Joe Texan
08-18-2008, 05:42 PM
It is a business and how can you run a business when your sales guy is giving your competitor all the leads he has.

I am past hoping he can turn it around.

He has got to step up and handle his business or his days are numbered as a Texan plain and simple.

HJam72
08-18-2008, 07:07 PM
How can we cut JJ when he is better than Jerry Rice ever was? :jk:

I hope he works it out. He's got plenty of talent. Meanwhile, Davis can keep scoring on kickoff returns twice a game. :)

TheRealJoker
08-18-2008, 07:43 PM
LMAO @ ttp and his "Kubiak pushed him too far" argument.

If asking a player to return punts and be your # 4 WR is asking too much then they aren't NFL material. No matter how "raw" they are...

I notice you bashed someone because of their age, but maybe you should bring yourself up to speed with the salary cap era.

PS: I stand by my comments earlier in this thread, if he doesn't get this fumbling problem fixed by regular season we should just not suit him up.

barrett
08-18-2008, 08:01 PM
and that's probably the way it'll go. he'll make the team and if he doesn't get it together in the next few weeks he WILL be the one who doesn't suit. .... but again, he makes the team.

New_Texans
08-18-2008, 09:42 PM
I wish people would Quit trying to compare this kid to Rice . He may be as physically gifted as Rice but he doesnt have the work ethic nor the maturity .

I wish people would stop taking someones words out of context. I didn't say Jacoby Jones is the next Jerry Rice. I said I hope someone will tell him that Jerry Rice was having the same issues and that the way Jerry got out of it was by working hard to fix the problem.

Basically, someone needs to motivate him by giving him a good role model in Jerry Rice. Since they are in a similar situation.

alphajoker
08-24-2008, 07:37 AM
Anyone notice how much he swings the ball out when he runs after receiving a punt? I would have thought by now that the coaches would have corrected it.

Kaiser Toro
08-24-2008, 07:55 AM
Anyone notice how much he swings the ball out when he runs after receiving a punt? I would have thought by now that the coaches would have corrected it.

The coaches may have thought by now that he would have corrected it.

Seņor Stan
08-24-2008, 07:59 AM
The coaches may have thought by now that he would have corrected it.


He uses the 4x100 meter relay baton holding method.

CloakNNNdagger
08-24-2008, 08:25 AM
I wish people would stop taking someones words out of context. I didn't say Jacoby Jones is the next Jerry Rice. I said I hope someone will tell him that Jerry Rice was having the same issues and that the way Jerry got out of it was by working hard to fix the problem.

Basically, someone needs to motivate him by giving him a good role model in Jerry Rice. Since they are in a similar situation.

.................or TAKE AWAY his ALLOWANCE.:thinking:

gary
08-24-2008, 09:09 AM
If he caught that pass at the end we would have won against the Cowboys.

Brandon420tx
08-24-2008, 09:26 AM
If he caught that pass at the end we would have won against the Cowboys.

If it was a regular season game we would have kicked the extra point.

gary
08-24-2008, 09:29 AM
I know.

TexansSeminole
08-24-2008, 10:55 AM
If it was a regular season game we would have kicked the extra point.

He still needs to catch that. The football hit him right in the hands. He won't get cut this year, but if he doesn't mature over the course of this season it could be his last in a Texans uni.

gary
08-24-2008, 12:01 PM
Amen.

TexansLucky13
08-24-2008, 12:15 PM
If it was a regular season game we would have kicked the extra point.

So? You gotta make that catch. He's a 2nd year player who is struggling in the preseason, on a team with extraordinary depth at WR. He needed to make that catch not only for his team, but for himself.

DexmanC
08-24-2008, 12:15 PM
Give the kid a break. I remember just two seasons ago, people were talking about how much Andre Johnson drops balls. Jacoby is a RAW talented receiver from a SMALL school in his SECOND season. Look at the game again. Jacoby's HUGE punt return set up that drive in the first place.

Jacoby dropped a pass, which was thrown to the wrong shoulder (should have been thrown to the outside shoulder.) Andre Johnson dropped EVERY ball thrown his way. It happens. The kid is coming around, as coach Kubiak said.

You want him traded to the Titans? Man. Ya'll need to cool it on Jacoby Jones.

Brandon420tx
08-24-2008, 12:19 PM
Just replying to an if with another if.

gary
08-24-2008, 12:35 PM
So? You gotta make that catch. He's a 2nd year player who is struggling in the preseason, on a team with extraordinary depth at WR. He needed to make that catch not only for his team, but for himself.They lost some WR depth when Harry went down.

NBT
08-24-2008, 01:29 PM
If Jacobe insists on acting like a kid, set him in the corner and make him write 100 times, "I will not fumble, I will hold onto the ball." :foottap:

stiff
08-24-2008, 01:55 PM
Could always have him carry around a waterball like the coaches used to do in High School for guys that fumbled...

gary
08-24-2008, 01:55 PM
Agreed.

JWarren14
08-29-2008, 03:02 PM
So college football has just started and I have been reading up on some games because I am in a pool and have to pick the spread for 23 games this weekend. So far I have seen 2 Jacoby Jones (Baylor, Clemson), there isn't really a point to this at all, just thought it was odd. Maybe they stole our JJ's identity?

brakos82
08-29-2008, 03:04 PM
So college football has just started and I have been reading up on some games because I am in a pool and have to pick the spread for 23 games this weekend. So far I have seen 2 Jacoby Jones (Baylor, Clemson), there isn't really a point to this at all, just thought it was odd. Maybe they stole our JJ's identity?
Now THAT's wierd... :cowboy1:

beerlover
08-29-2008, 03:16 PM
I wish people would Quit trying to compare this kid to Rice . He may be as physically gifted as Rice but he doesnt have the work ethic nor the maturity .

I'm not sure about all that but what he doesn't seem to have are hands that find, secure & hold onto the football :juggle:

Dancerdog
08-30-2008, 10:03 AM
Jacoby Jones will make a believer out of all of us in the near future. I think his troubles in the offseason coupled with his lackluster preseason performance will sink in on him and he will renew his work ethic. His personality just reminds me of someone who hates to be seen as second rate. I'm pulling for him. He has the talent to be something special in this league. I'm pulling for you JJ. Don't let us down.

Corrosion
08-30-2008, 10:42 AM
Jacoby Jones will make a believer out of all of us in the near future. I think his troubles in the offseason coupled with his lackluster preseason performance will sink in on him and he will renew his work ethic. His personality just reminds me of someone who hates to be seen as second rate. I'm pulling for him. He has the talent to be something special in this league. I'm pulling for you JJ. Don't let us down.

I just dont know about that .....


Something I noticed in the TB game , when he took the initial kickoff it looked like he bobbled it a bit .... Second and on the same play he was swinging his arms out to the side much like a sprinter coming out of the blocks.
He did this again on the first catch he made from Sage , after the nifty move to get away from the defender it looked to me that his arms were moving angularly , away from his body which makes it easier for a defender to knock the ball out.

I'm begining to think that this is his natural movement when running and that its going to take a lot of work both mental and physical to break the habit . For him to stick in the NFL ... He's got to fix it.

CloakNNNdagger
08-30-2008, 11:06 AM
I just dont know about that .....


Something I noticed in the TB game , when he took the initial kickoff it looked like he bobbled it a bit .... Second and on the same play he was swinging his arms out to the side much like a sprinter coming out of the blocks.
He did this again on the first catch he made from Sage , after the nifty move to get away from the defender it looked to me that his arms were moving angularly , away from his body which makes it easier for a defender to knock the ball out.

I'm begining to think that this is his natural movement when running and that its going to take a lot of work both mental and physical to break the habit . For him to stick in the NFL ... He's got to fix it.


This video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUXbc5-0u6A&feature=related)certainly reinforces this point.

Maddict5
08-30-2008, 01:46 PM
This video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUXbc5-0u6A&feature=related)certainly reinforces this point.

:confused:

thats jacoby ford? am i missing something?