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View Full Version : Kubiak says Earl Cochran is serious threat to start at strongside DE


nunusguy
08-12-2008, 09:16 AM
On Sunday, Kubiak took his praise to a new level when he said Cochran is pushing Anthony Weaver for a starting job on the left side opposite Mario Williams.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/5937564.html
************************************
Here's my question, why even keep Weaver around if the HC has them rated that closely ? Afterall, we've already established that Weaver is not a pass-rusher and if Cochran is playing this well, why keep the far more expensive Weaver on the roster when Earl can get the job done vs. the run ?

Polo
08-12-2008, 09:28 AM
I hope Cochran beats out Weaver...

I think in this scheme Weaver's skills = back up/situational player at best...

stiff
08-12-2008, 09:44 AM
Thats the main reason to keep him around, depth. Worst case scenario keep him for training camp fodder. At this point you cannot have too much depth. There will be some "suprise" guys that will probably be cut this year.

Brando
08-12-2008, 12:03 PM
I'm all for it! He deserves it.

Mike Kerns
08-12-2008, 12:07 PM
I'm not ready to cut anyone when it is nice having depth for a change. But I am glad Earl is pushing for the spot. I havent felt like Weaver has given much effort since coming here and maybe some competition will light a fire under his hide.

threetoedpete
08-12-2008, 12:43 PM
I'm not ready to cut anyone when it is nice having depth for a change. But I am glad Earl is pushing for the spot. I havent felt like Weaver has given much effort since coming here and maybe some competition will light a fire under his hide.

He's a three-four end stuck on a four-three team. Weaver neither created the situation or circumstance. That would be Charlie Caslery and Dom Capers. The crime here would be not getting any value for the guy after keeping him around for two extra years. That's on Smithiak.

beerlover
08-12-2008, 12:51 PM
seems the focus should be on Cochran moving forward. Weaver brings veteren leadership, good guy & while mentoring his linemates I'm sure he's still got a trick or two up his sleave, just remember its a process thats headed in a positive direction.

I just hope for the same @ the RB position :)

ArlingtonTexan
08-12-2008, 12:56 PM
He's a three-four end stuck on a four-three team. Weaver neither created the situation or circumstance. That would be Charlie Caslery and Dom Capers. The crime here would be not getting any value for the guy after keeping him around for two extra years. That's on Smithiak.

Seriously, based on his play and contract, who is going to spend anything not called a 6th or 7th round draft pick (if that) on Weaver?

Specnatz
08-12-2008, 12:56 PM
On Sunday, Kubiak took his praise to a new level when he said Cochran is pushing Anthony Weaver for a starting job on the left side opposite Mario Williams.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/5937564.html
************************************
Here's my question, why even keep Weaver around if the HC has them rated that closely ? Afterall, we've already established that Weaver is not a pass-rusher and if Cochran is playing this well, why keep the far more expensive Weaver on the roster when Earl can get the job done vs. the run ?

I hope Cochran beats out Weaver...

I think in this scheme Weaver's skills = back up/situational player at best...

If Cochran beats him out he starts and before anyone says cut Weaver .. I rather his keep him as for depth because of all the crap this team has gone through the last two years. Like I have been arguing with Polo, Weaver does very well against the run but if Cochran can do both better or it is marginal losing out on the plus of the run stoppage by Weaver then you go with Cochran but you do not cut off a toe even though 4 will work just fine.

Lucky
08-12-2008, 01:01 PM
...if Cochran is playing this well, why keep the far more expensive Weaver on the roster when Earl can get the job done vs. the run ?
Because Weaver is even more expensive to cut. Weaver is signed through 2010, so there are 3 seasons of unamortized bonus money remaining on the salary cap. There may be other cap considerations, as well. aj might be able to shed some light on that, and Keith @ inthebullseye.com (http://www.inthebullseye.com) may have written on this topic. Bottom line, Weaver has to stay...even as a high priced backup. Heck, he might even be able to stay healthy with a limited role.

threetoedpete
08-12-2008, 01:19 PM
Seriously, based on his play and contract, who is going to spend anything not called a 6th or 7th round draft pick (if that) on Weaver?

I don't know but twenty four months seems like ample time to wrangle two six packs and a ham sandwich for him. Still got three weeks to go. Someone could get hurt still. What I don't want to see is a bunch of crying come October if the guy does get cut and the right side collapses against the run. Do you need a pass specalist if your always in third and short ? Lets start Earl with the A team. Inquiring minds would like to see it.

nunusguy
08-12-2008, 01:28 PM
Because Weaver is even more expensive to cut. Weaver is signed through 2010, so there are 3 seasons of unamortized bonus money remaining on the salary cap. There may be other cap considerations, as well. aj might be able to shed some light on that, and Keith @ inthebullseye.com (http://www.inthebullseye.com) may have written on this topic. Bottom line, Weaver has to stay...even as a high priced backup. Heck, he might even be able to stay healthy with a limited role.
I knew there was a sizable number setting there, but didn't know they had
3 remaining years to write-off, thought it was just 2 (which is bad enough).
OK, thanks.

PapaL
08-12-2008, 01:47 PM
Who thinks Earl can stay healthy an entire season as a true DE?

bollocks
08-12-2008, 01:58 PM
What I wonder is how Weaver would react to the idea of losing his starting job to Cochran. Anyone else think that he may not be entirely happy with being a back up?

Should he ask for a trade in this circumstance, what do you think we could get for him?

This is all hypothetical, of course.

steelbtexan
08-12-2008, 02:05 PM
Why would they sign Weaver to a 5 yr high dollar deal?

CC must have seemed like Santa Claus to Weaver.

It's hard to believe a NFL GM could be as stupid as CC if I didn't see it with my own eyes.

NFL Networks credibilty took a hit when they hired CC as an expert.

steelbtexan
08-12-2008, 02:09 PM
Who thinks Earl can stay healthy an entire season aa a true DE?

I think he can stay healthy all year. Maybe that is the optimist in me. (Some thing thais clearly lacking on this MB).

steelbtexan
08-12-2008, 02:11 PM
What I wonder is how Weaver would react to the idea of losing his starting job to Cochran. Anyone else think that he may not be entirely happy with being a back up?

Should he ask for a trade in this circumstance, what do you think we could get for him?

This is all hypothetical, of course.

A bag of chips.

There is the realist in me.

HOU-TEX
08-12-2008, 02:16 PM
I wonder if the FO has even made an attempt to restructure Weavers contract. IMO, that'd be the best scenerio for the team. AJ did it, so why can't Weaver? :thinking:

Lucky
08-12-2008, 02:23 PM
IMO, that'd be the best scenerio for the team. AJ did it, so why can't Weaver? :thinking:
AJ got a big signing bonus to restructure. I don't think the Texans want to throw good $$$ to Weaver after bad. Best thing is just to pay out Weaver's contract this season, and release him next offseason.

b0ng
08-12-2008, 02:23 PM
Dunta must be pissing himself with fear with the thought of cochran on the field all of the time with him.

bollocks
08-12-2008, 02:32 PM
A bag of chips.

There is the realist in me.

Which is more valuable than anything I would expect to receive from Weaver on the field this season.

The Pencil Neck
08-12-2008, 02:53 PM
Dunta must be pissing himself with fear with the thought of cochran on the field all of the time with him.

Now that was just a tacky thing to say.

I have to admit I thought the same thing.

But I'm not so tacky as to actually post it.

NBT
08-12-2008, 03:00 PM
Who thinks Earl can stay healthy an entire season aa a true DE?

Who says any of us will remain healthy all season? Only the man upstairs knows.

nunusguy
08-12-2008, 03:23 PM
Why would they sign Weaver to a 5 yr high dollar deal?

This was back in Kubiak's first year when he thought he needed a strong-side DE for his conversion to the 4-3 and had no idea he was going to draft anybody #1 besides Reggie Bush.
As it turned out he drafted some guy out of NC State who was the best strong-side DE prospect coming out of college in years.

PapaL
08-13-2008, 11:26 AM
Who says any of us will remain healthy all season? Only the man upstairs knows.

I know I won't be going up against 300+lb OL everyday so my chances of not being injured a skewed. I think I can handle the daily grinds of riding metro with blowing out a knee.

Can he physically hold up all year long at a new position full time position when he is a hybrid pass rusher type?

ATX
08-13-2008, 11:31 AM
So Mario will be playing weak side DE? Personally, I'd rather have Mario playing strong side and everybody else playing weak side.

V3rm0nt3r
08-13-2008, 11:47 AM
i wouldn't mind seeing a tandem personally. Weaver on running downs and Cochran on passing downs, seems simple enough and, god forbid, it could keep both of them healthy through the whole season... maybe its just too much to ask for.

Lucky
08-13-2008, 12:00 PM
i wouldn't mind seeing a tandem personally. Weaver on running downs and Cochran on passing downs...
On passing downs, the Texans will likely bring in Colvin at RDE, and move Mario to LDE.

HJam72
08-13-2008, 12:03 PM
On passing downs, the Texans will likely bring in Colvin at RDE, and move Mario to LDE.

Yeah, Mario is ambidextrous. :user:

HOU-TEX
08-13-2008, 12:25 PM
On passing downs, the Texans will likely bring in Colvin at RDE, and move Mario to LDE.

Cochran moves inside alot on passing downs. I'd think we'd see alot of MW, OA, EC and RC along the Dline in passing situations. Kalu would be sprinkled in at times at both DE and DT.

I hope Thompson's ready to play pretty soon too. I'd like to see if they put his hand on the ground at time, or strictly at LB.

:fans:

HJam72
08-13-2008, 12:30 PM
Ya know, we gotta lotta backup DBs that would be pretty quick on that D-Line....in passing situations I mean. :mcnugget:

V3rm0nt3r
08-13-2008, 01:23 PM
Cochran moves inside alot on passing downs. I'd think we'd see alot of MW, OA, EC and RC along the Dline in passing situations. Kalu would be sprinkled in at times at both DE and DT.

I hope Thompson's ready to play pretty soon too. I'd like to see if they put his hand on the ground at time, or strictly at LB.

:fans:

dude... its AO not OA i felt like a moron trying to figure out who OA was

HOU-TEX
08-13-2008, 02:10 PM
dude... its AO not OA i felt like a moron trying to figure out who OA was

LMAO! Sorry about that. Maybe I was thinking of Bum Phillips at the time. :user:

Specnatz
08-13-2008, 02:58 PM
LMAO! Sorry about that. Maybe I was thinking of Bum Phillips at the time. :user:

and his :hobie:


:spit:

HOU-TEX
08-13-2008, 03:39 PM
and his :hobie:


:spit:

LMAO! Damn dude...that's borderline disturbing. :thinking:

TheRealJoker
08-13-2008, 03:49 PM
I dont care who they make the starter as long as he's the 2nd best DE on our roster. Until Cochran, Weaver, or whoever proves they can hold that spot down and be productive for an entire season they're just keeping Mario's full time position next year warm when he switches over after we draft or pick up a full time RDE in the offseason.

The Pencil Neck
08-13-2008, 03:50 PM
LMAO! Damn dude...that's borderline disturbing. :thinking:


Borderline? There was nothing borderline about the disturbedness of that post.

Specnatz
08-13-2008, 03:59 PM
LMAO! Damn dude...that's borderline disturbing. :thinking:

Borderline? There was nothing borderline about the disturbedness of that post.

It was extremely disturbing but I thought it was funny.

HOU-TEX
08-13-2008, 04:00 PM
Borderline? There was nothing borderline about the disturbedness of that post.

:spit: Yeah, but I'm a sick bastage!

maddogmrb
08-13-2008, 09:16 PM
I've been a fan of Earl Cochran since he came to the Texans. I'm not sure he is a NFL quality starting DE, though and, if he's beating out Weaver, then that doesn't say a whole lot for our other DE position. I think Earl is a NFL quality backup unless he has progressed alot in this training camp/offseason and I hope he has.

:fans:

MojoMan
08-13-2008, 09:25 PM
I've been a fan of Earl Cochran since he came to the Texans. I'm not sure he is a NFL quality starting DE, though and, if he's beating out Weaver, then that doesn't say a whole lot for our other DE position. I think Earl is a NFL quality backup unless he has progressed alot in this training camp/offseason and I hope he has.

:fans:

Great points. This is why I am currently expecting the Texan's to pick a Defensive End in the first round of the 2009 NFL Draft.

False Start
08-13-2008, 11:40 PM
Anthony Weaver has disappointed me more than any other player we have signed. When he came in I wasn't expecting him to be a Pro Bowler, but at least be above average. I never hear his name called during the games, hes like a ninja, you never see or hear from him. If Cochran can play better then put him in the game !!

El Tejano
08-14-2008, 09:40 AM
why keep the far more expensive Weaver on the roster when Earl can get the job done vs. the run ?

Your answer lies within the question young grasshopper!:thinking:

V3rm0nt3r
08-14-2008, 11:19 AM
Great points. This is why I am currently expecting the Texan's to pick a Defensive End in the first round of the 2009 NFL Draft.

knowing our drafting history your probably right but if the running game still sucks this year i think Kubes might be convinced to change his phiosophy about drafting RBs in the first and then a DE in the second.

MojoMan
08-14-2008, 01:01 PM
knowing our drafting history your probably right but if the running game still sucks this year i think Kubes might be convinced to change his phiosophy about drafting RBs in the first and then a DE in the second.

I think the Texans are getting to the point as far as talent and depth where I would not be completely disappointed with that scenario. However, at this point I am thinking DE in round one, and perhaps an RB in round 2. RB's just have such short careers on the average, it is hard to justify taking one in the first round.

Ole Miss Texan
08-14-2008, 02:05 PM
I think a RB in the 1st round would make the most immediate impact, but a DE, OLB, or S would be a better long term pick for the team. This defense is going to be really scary.

gtexan02
08-14-2008, 02:11 PM
I think a RB in the 1st round would make the most immediate impact, but a DE, OLB, or S would be a better long term pick for the team. This defense is going to be really scary.

Im hoping that Barber, Abidi, Ziles, or Slaton really steps up this year and makes that an easy decision. All of them seem to have potential at being a long term answer to a position of need

Thorn
08-14-2008, 04:43 PM
I think a RB in the 1st round would make the most immediate impact, but a DE, OLB, or S would be a better long term pick for the team. This defense is going to be really scary.


I completely agree. We can get a pretty darn good RB in the 2nd round, and I just love it when they pick lineman of any flavor in the 1st round.

V3rm0nt3r
08-14-2008, 05:39 PM
if we can get one of the Clemson backs (preferably James Davis) in the second that would complement a guy like Slaton than go for it in the second round but i see that we will either have to trade up in the second or down in the first to snag a value RB with big upside but can still contribute right off.

barrett
08-14-2008, 07:18 PM
it's weird to think of the Texans as a team with enough talent and depth that they would even consider trading up to get a player. i guess we're getting to that point though where we may be sitting there on draft day saying we need these two guys no matter what.

i don't know if we're there yet but it's weird to even think that it could be right around the corner.

BornOrange
08-15-2008, 01:47 AM
He's a three-four end stuck on a four-three team. Weaver neither created the situation or circumstance. That would be Charlie Caslery and Dom Capers. The crime here would be not getting any value for the guy after keeping him around for two extra years. That's on Smithiak.
Anthony Weaver was signed over a month after Gary Kubiak had been hired and had named Richard Smith as his defensive coordinator, so he was brought in for our current scheme. I don't know if Casserly can really be blamed too much for the contract situation, because he was probably just doing what Kubiak wanted him to do. Since we were moving from a 3-4 to a 4-3, we needed linemen that would fit that scheme....even if we had to overpay.

BornOrange
08-15-2008, 02:14 AM
To address the original point of this thread, I think Cochran gives us more options as a starter than Weaver does. Even though we need our left DE to be primarily a run stopper on first and second downs, the offense will still throw the ball often and Cochran provides a better pass rush than Weaver. If Cochran proves to be able to play the run as well as Weaver, then he should definitely get the starting job.

However, there is still a need for Weaver on this team. Remember that our run defense was a weakness last year. Even if he isn't starting, Weaver will need to be part of the rotation at DE. In running situations, Weaver can spell either of the starters. In passing situations, Colvin will be able to enter the game.

kiwitexansfan
08-15-2008, 02:44 AM
Let's see what a fit Weaver can offer before crowning Cochran. I for one am buying into the "he's been injured since he's been here and battled through" story.

With Mario and Okoye, the QB will be getting pressured, we need to be able to stop the run too and till I see otherwise a healthy Weaver should be the man for that job.

TheRealJoker
08-15-2008, 07:02 AM
Anthony Weaver was signed over a month after Gary Kubiak had been hired and had named Richard Smith as his defensive coordinator, so he was brought in for our current scheme. I don't know if Casserly can really be blamed too much for the contract situation, because he was probably just doing what Kubiak wanted him to do. Since we were moving from a 3-4 to a 4-3, we needed linemen that would fit that scheme....even if we had to overpay.

Richard Smith didn't get here till after the draft. Weaver was signed before the draft.

Sadly enough Chris Olsen wasn't here at the time either which allowed Dan Ferens to draw up his last terrible FA contract for Weaver to sign. It was a nice way for him to end his legacy of overpriced FAs for this franchise.

Not saying we wouldn't have signed Weaver if Smith/Olsen were here at the time but I do believe the contract would've been much more cap friendly than it is now.

Lucky
08-15-2008, 10:41 AM
Richard Smith didn't get here till after the draft. Weaver was signed before the draft.
You mean Rick Smith, the GM. Richard Smith was hired about a week after Kubiak was named head coach. There was a lot of speculation about the DC job during that time. A lot of fans wanted Jim Bates. Kubiak wanted Frank Bush, but Arizona wouldn't let him out of his contract.

TheRealJoker
08-15-2008, 11:07 AM
You mean Rick Smith, the GM. Richard Smith was hired about a week after Kubiak was named head coach. There was a lot of speculation about the DC job during that time. A lot of fans wanted Jim Bates. Kubiak wanted Frank Bush, but Arizona wouldn't let him out of his contract.

You are correct I meant slick Rick in my post.

Texanmike02
08-16-2008, 06:31 PM
Anthony Weaver has disappointed me more than any other player we have signed. When he came in I wasn't expecting him to be a Pro Bowler, but at least be above average. I never hear his name called during the games, hes like a ninja, you never see or hear from him. If Cochran can play better then put him in the game !!

Signed,

Stacy Mack


stacy you forgot to sign it.

Mike

Texanmike02
08-16-2008, 06:51 PM
This is just speculation on my part. And there's really no scientific evidence to back it up so I shouldn't even bring it up but, he came over from the Ravens. He was the only guy we could expect to play a significant amount of time that was coming from a successful defense. I think the fact that he was on a great defense was important. We needed an attitude change because we completely lacked any semblance of a veteran leader at the time. His production on the field is extremely undervalued to this point because he is so solid against the run, he rarely breaks contain on his side. With our poor tackling, if he sacrifices 2 or 3 sacks a year but avoids getting burned 10 times, I'll take it. And its not like our announcers are saying "did you see Weaver, the way he forced the guy to hesitate on that run allowed Ryans to make a beautiful tackle". So the idea that we're upset because he doesn't get his name called, well its ridiculous.

"But we're terrible against the run"
Teams have, for years, killed us on the ground by running up the middle and setting up screens. That and the fact that we don't tackle. How many times have we had a back trapped on the side for a 1 or two yard gain only to miss a tackle and it turns into 4 or 5 yards. I won't pretend to know everything about or defense but I think if Weaver does his job, we won't notice him. Now if Earl can do the same thing, and provide pass rushing, then I'm all for it but given the choice, if I was charged with fixing our defense, I'd say that poor tackling has been a problem more than our RDE pot. I'm not suggesting that he's an all world DE. He's certainly limited because he doesn't get pressure on the passer.

If we can do better, then do it. But the call for Weaver's head is a bit out of line if you ask me.

Mike

dalemurphy
08-16-2008, 07:33 PM
This is just speculation on my part. And there's really no scientific evidence to back it up so I shouldn't even bring it up but, he came over from the Ravens. He was the only guy we could expect to play a significant amount of time that was coming from a successful defense. I think the fact that he was on a great defense was important. We needed an attitude change because we completely lacked any semblance of a veteran leader at the time. His production on the field is extremely undervalued to this point because he is so solid against the run, he rarely breaks contain on his side. With our poor tackling, if he sacrifices 2 or 3 sacks a year but avoids getting burned 10 times, I'll take it. And its not like our announcers are saying "did you see Weaver, the way he forced the guy to hesitate on that run allowed Ryans to make a beautiful tackle". So the idea that we're upset because he doesn't get his name called, well its ridiculous.

"But we're terrible against the run"
Teams have, for years, killed us on the ground by running up the middle and setting up screens. That and the fact that we don't tackle. How many times have we had a back trapped on the side for a 1 or two yard gain only to miss a tackle and it turns into 4 or 5 yards. I won't pretend to know everything about or defense but I think if Weaver does his job, we won't notice him. Now if Earl can do the same thing, and provide pass rushing, then I'm all for it but given the choice, if I was charged with fixing our defense, I'd say that poor tackling has been a problem more than our RDE pot. I'm not suggesting that he's an all world DE. He's certainly limited because he doesn't get pressure on the passer.

If we can do better, then do it. But the call for Weaver's head is a bit out of line if you ask me.

Mike



I generally agree with your point about Weaver's value. However, I think our poor run defense has more to do with being physically badly overmatched. I think our LBs are solid tacklers - greenwood and certainly ryans... and, outside of A. Winfield, Dunta is the best tackling CB in the NFL. I just think we've been old and weak on the DL. I also think our safeties, other than Earl, have been somewhat poor tacklers.

This year should be different. We at least have the opportunity to field an entire lineup of guys who play the run well; something like:

Mario, TJ, Okoye, Weaver or Cochran
Greeenwood, Ryans, Diles
Bennett, Fletcher (Dunta)
Earl, Barber