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View Full Version : Is Terrel Davis Responsible For Our Running Back Situation?


forcefollow
08-11-2008, 12:58 PM
Mike Shanahan and Gary Kubiak had great success in Denver. No one can deny this. They are convinced that any back can shine in their system. I believe this is do in large part to the success of Terrel Davis who was a nobody before he came to Denver. I think he was a late round pick or a free agent. I think the Texans believe they can replicate this phenomenon. I hope they do.

Ole Miss Texan
08-11-2008, 01:23 PM
Mike Shanahan and Gary Kubiak had great success in Denver. No one can deny this. They are convinced that any back can shine in their system. I believe this is do in large part to the success of Terrel Davis who was a nobody before he came to Denver. I think he was a late round pick or a free agent. I think the Texans believe they can replicate this phenomenon. I hope they do.

Was Davis a big part of their success? Of course. Was he the main reason? No.

It all starts up front with the offensive line. A late round RB can be more successful behind a good OL than a 1st round RB behind a poor OL.

It's not so much that Davis was a late round pick so they know they can find stars that late. It's more of the fact that once you get your offensive line established, you can use later round picks on RB's that fit your team and that makes them successful.

Plus, you get to spend earlier draft picks on positions that will be on your team longer. RB's generally don't last as long as say a DE, so you get much more bang for your buck.

Tailgate
08-11-2008, 01:52 PM
Maybe a little bit. But I think it has to do w more of the fact that we had so many fricking holes to fill that we had to prioritize them before the RB situation could be fixed long term. We are in stop gap solution phase at the RB posish until we are close to completing our team under our current blue print. So yes, having a system that is known for plug in play RBs helps us focus elsewhere. Lets just see the impact Gibbs truly has 3 games into the season tho.

forcefollow
08-11-2008, 02:54 PM
I think it is fair to say that the Texan O-line was terrible when Dominick Davis was here and he was productive. In my opinion the texans need to be more aggressive about getting a legit back on the roster.

Polo
08-11-2008, 02:56 PM
I think it is fair to say that the Texan O-line was terrible when Dominick Davis was here...

I don't....

I think our O-line got a bad rap because of all the sacks we gave up....But I blame a lot of those on David...

Running wise...Before Kubiak showed up....we had been decent...

Thorn
08-11-2008, 03:07 PM
Running wise...Before Kubiak showed up....we had been decent...

Not really. Other that D. Davis we've never had a running game, we've had spurts every now and, and the Dayne Train was fun when he actually found a little running room. What has happened with Kubiak here has been no better or worse that what happened when Capers was here (except in DD's two best years).

Polo
08-11-2008, 03:10 PM
(except in DD's two best years).

How can you exclude those two years ?

Were they not part of the pre-Kubiak era ?

Even when Jonathan Wells toted the rock he performed "decent"ly....

Ole Miss Texan
08-11-2008, 03:50 PM
I think it is fair to say that the Texan O-line was terrible when Dominick Davis was here and he was productive. In my opinion the texans need to be more aggressive about getting a legit back on the roster.

I think we were pretty poor in pass protection but in run blocking I think they were fairly decent, if I'm not mistaken. I too think its really important to get a legit #1 starting RB on the roster to take pressure off Schaub and the WR's.

bigbrewster2000
08-11-2008, 04:23 PM
Mike Shanahan and Gary Kubiak had great success in Denver. No one can deny this. They are convinced that any back can shine in their system. I believe this is do in large part to the success of Terrel Davis who was a nobody before he came to Denver. I think he was a late round pick or a free agent. I think the Texans believe they can replicate this phenomenon. I hope they do.

Actually Terrel Davis was not a nobody before he went to the Broncos. He was a very talented runner at Georgia. True that he was a late rounder but the only reason why is because he was injured late in his senior season. Had he not been injured he would have easily been a 1st day draft pick instead of a late 2nd day(6th round). If they were totally sold on late RB picks they never would have drafted Portis in the 2nd round.

I think that Kubiak and company simply put our offensive and Defensive lines much higher on the importance scales than they do the RB position. Our last few drafts have shown that. And, I wouldnt trade any of the available RB's in the 1st round over our last 3 first round draft choices.

If Slaton or the other youngsters dont show promise this year then I could see a 1st or 2nd spent on a RB.

sbalderrama
08-11-2008, 04:57 PM
I'm pretty sure if you asked Shanny or Kubes about Terrell neither one of them would claim that they expect all 6th round picks to perform as he did. the Bronco's managed to strike paydirt on that one. Terrell wasn't the fastest guy, but he had amazing vision.

Double Barrel
08-11-2008, 05:05 PM
Was Davis a big part of their success? Of course. Was he the main reason? No.

TD = 1998 NFL MVP, 1997 Super Bowl MVP, one of only five players in NFL history to rush for 2,000 or more yards in one season (2,008 yards in 1998), led the AFC in rushing three times (1996-98), all-time NFL leader with seven consecutive 100 yard rushing playoff games, first player to rush for three touchdowns in a Super Bowl, set 47 Denver Bronco team records over his career, two-time AP Offensive Player of the Year (1996 & 1998), and three-time Pro Bowler (1996-1998).

If that's not a "main reason" for their success, I'm not sure what would qualify. Elway lost three Super Bowls before TD, and won two with him.

sbalderrama
08-11-2008, 05:08 PM
watching this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTza50UcbGo&feature=related

Does remind me of one way that TD certainly spoiled Shanny and Kubes... when you hear them talk about needing the back to be good at pass blocking.

The dude wasn't afraid to hit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlFioK7nzIA&feature=related

Wham!

ATXtexanfan
08-11-2008, 05:36 PM
davis isn't our problem, we have bigger holes to fill through the draft right now. injuries at rb is our problem. that's why davis fell in the draft, luckily he was healthy for a few years in denver. if brown and green can make it through the year than we'll be set. that's a big "if" though.

GP
08-11-2008, 05:48 PM
So how do we explain Barry Sanders?

I seem to remember that he was running behind a shoddy line, and had to dance a lot just to get positive yardage. Those freakish runs he made were usually a result of the OL failing to produce an opening for him.

You can be a success as a RB without a good line.

To Kubiak's credit, he gave DD up until the very last second to decide if he could play through the pain. Kubiak wanted DD to be on the roster. He could have just cut him unceremoniously without the benefit of the doubt. But he didn't. So that tells me that Kubiak knows RB talent when he sees it.

But I DO think he's reluctant to spend high draft picks and big money on a RB...and I think that's a result of a few different things converging together: One of which is that he learned from Shanahan, and that's the way Shanahan does things: Lots of under-the-radar backs, competing for a shared workload, and having to scrap for carries in order to stay motivated.

I dislike Kubiak's methodology on RBs. That's no secret.

But...Slaton might actually be a 3rd rounder that produces enough. I hope so.

The Pencil Neck
08-11-2008, 06:06 PM
So how do we explain Barry Sanders?


The exception that proves the rule.

Ole Miss Texan
08-11-2008, 06:14 PM
So how do we explain Barry Sanders?


Sanders is the exception, not the norm (that guy was just amazing).

sbalderrama
08-11-2008, 06:18 PM
just to add, here's a link to an article ( by a cowboy writer, be warned) talking about the crapshoot that you make taking a top round RB.

http://www.dallascowboys.com/news/news.cfm?id=AA85E817-02FD-03D2-84249007F06B9023

ATXtexanfan
08-11-2008, 06:24 PM
yeah but barry freaking sanders could make a dollar out of fifteen cents. he was the greatest back i've seen (31 yrs old). no comparison to our situation.

The1ApplePie
08-11-2008, 10:27 PM
When your line is coached to intentionally injure their opponents, its easy to run, no matter who you are.

I hope the Texans don't get as dirty as the Broncos in that reguard

Carr Bombed
08-11-2008, 11:26 PM
When your line is coached to intentionally injure their opponents.

That's not true......their line isn't coached to "intentionally injure their opponents". Cut blocking can be dangerous, but it's also legal and this is football, injuries happen and everything inside the lines of legal play, teams will take advantage of to win games........some teams will even cross those lines (Patriots).

Also if you think that Denver is coached to "intentionally injure opposing players", but hope the Texans don't play the same way, prepare to be disappointed.......who do you think installed the system in Denver?

Ladies and gentleman if Alex Gibbs says he's a Oline man you will agree.....he's traveled across half our country to be here. "THERE WILL BE CUT BLOCKS"

Goldensilence
08-12-2008, 12:12 AM
Mike Shanahan and Gary Kubiak had great success in Denver. No one can deny this. They are convinced that any back can shine in their system. I believe this is do in large part to the success of Terrel Davis who was a nobody before he came to Denver. I think he was a late round pick or a free agent. I think the Texans believe they can replicate this phenomenon. I hope they do.

I can point to TD's career in Denver and say that might be it. But in all honesty it's the guys that have followed him that have the staff believing it can be replicated. Guys like Olandis Gary, Mike Anderson, Rueben Droughns, and an assortment of guys who have stepped in and had good games in between. The results have really been hard to ignore.

Tack that on with the Success Alex Gibbs had in Atlanta making Dunn and Duckett and successful combination along with Mike Vick. I believe two years running they lead the NFL in Rushing. Again Hard to ignore.

It might not be this year but I fully expect now that we aren't running a hybrid Zone/Power scheme we'll see results like the ones that have typically followed Gibbs.

As to why late round backs are favored in the system it is emphasis on position and longevity. How long are prime years typically for a RB vs DE, DT, LB, WR, QB, or CB? It's also a brutal and physical position that can entail easy injuries as I think any Texan fan can fully understand.

ObsiWan
08-12-2008, 12:27 AM
So how do we explain Barry Sanders?

I seem to remember that he was running behind a shoddy line, and had to dance a lot just to get positive yardage. Those freakish runs he made were usually a result of the OL failing to produce an opening for him.

You can be a success as a RB without a good line...

Barry Sanders, and Gayle Sayers, are once in a generation players. MelHairGel would have had y'all believing that Reggie Bush was this generation's Sayers/Sanders... How's that working so far?? And the Saints have a decent O-line!

Ask Emmett Smith or Eggerin James how it feels to go from a really good O-line to one that sucks. Even O.J. Simpson had to get a decent line in front of him to produce.

And say we had Barry Sanders... he'd stay in Kubiak's doghouse because he danced behind the line so much. Remember, the ZBS philosophy is to make one cut and go.

not a good example...

ObsiWan
08-12-2008, 12:36 AM
What I don't get is why Kubiak insists on having a "veteran RB" instead of looking for real talent. T.D. led Denver to a 8-8 record his rookie year and 13-3 record his second year. They won Super Bowls in T.D.'s 3rd & 4th seasons.

Its about heart, not "experience".

Maybe its perception on my part, but it doesn't seem that either Green or Brown have enough heart. The only guy I see with heart is Walker - he refuses to be kicked to the curb - unfortunately, he doesn't have outstanding talent.