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supertankman
12-19-2004, 11:36 PM
Anyone still questioning Domanick Davis as our main back next year?

AndreJ
12-19-2004, 11:37 PM
I think for about 95% of us the answer is no. The run blocking is starting to come along pretty nicely and davis is gettin more patient and comfortable with it as he said in an interview earlier this week.

Fiddy
12-19-2004, 11:39 PM
Of course. I will continue to question it. Davis did almost get 100 yards, but it was against the 24th ranked rush defense who give up 4.3 yards a carry so lets not get too giddy...

Fiddy
12-19-2004, 11:41 PM
The run blocking is starting to come along pretty nicely and davis is gettin more patient and comfortable with it as he said in an interview earlier this week.Have any of yall noticed that when Davis has a good run, one of the annoucers says "great block by ____." Davis cant make things happen by himself. Franchise backs make things happen by themselves with no help. Example: Jamal Lewis today had a play where it was 3rd or 4th down with 13 yards to go. Boller was rushed and Lewis caught if for 3 yards and then broke 3 tackles to make sure he got the 1st. Davis cant put his will on defenders...

big sarge
12-19-2004, 11:48 PM
This is true. While Davis is a good back, I don't think Davis is a good fit for the Texans. They need a physical back that can make people pay for trying to tackle him. It's kinda like when your a kid and your dad hovers over you and beats the fear of God in you, and you grow up to respect him. I think opposing defenses will let Davis get his 100 yards a game because they know for the Texans to win, Carr has to be on the mark and in control. Thats what a QB does.
God!
Family!
Country!
Texans!!!

AndreJ
12-19-2004, 11:51 PM
I think its pretty obvious, that he isn't a J. Lewis or Ahman Green, Duce McCallister. But how many running back in the league can 3 tackles and drag a defender on his back to carry them across the 1st down line. Sure he's not the greatest, but he has been getting the job done in the past two weeks.

And of those players i mentioned above. When was the last time one of them had 201 total yards of offense.

Fiddy
12-20-2004, 12:03 AM
I think its pretty obvious, that he isn't a J. Lewis or Ahman Green, Duce McCallister. But how many running back in the league can 3 tackles and drag a defender on his back to carry them across the 1st down line. Sure he's not the greatest, but he has been getting the job done in the past two weeks.

And of those players i mentioned above. When was the last time one of them had 201 total yards of offense.Getting the job done doesnt make you a franchise back. Heck, Emmitt Smith is getting the job done in Arizona but he isnt the franchise back over there. (And I hate to tell you that Smith and Davis are both averaging 3.6 yards per carry)

I really dont want to pull up the stats but I can predict that the last time each of the three players you named got 201 yards, their team won. The 201 yards Davis got were empty because the Colts gave them to him because it would help the Colts win the game.




----Edit
Okay, I lied. I looked up stats for Green and the last time he got 200+ yards was against the Broncos at the end of last season when he put up 227 total yards and the Pack won 31-3.

AndreJ
12-20-2004, 12:11 AM
The 201 yards Davis got were empty because the Colts gave them to him because it would help the Colts win the game.

I'm sorry but that may have been the stupidest thing i have ever heard. I dont understand how and why a team gives 201 yards to anyone to help them win a game. first its not his fault they lost the game. Carr played horrible that game and the passing game was shutdown. Not to mention our D went up against the what i recall is the 1st ranked offense in the league. If it hadn't been for Davis putting the offense on his back we would have seen antoher blowout like we did in INDY. DD accounts from damn near 50% of the Texans offense.

And if you don't mind me asking what is your definition of a franchise back?

Grid
12-20-2004, 12:11 AM
I still question it. I love the guy but he simply is not durable enough to be the back that we need. he has already shown that.

He has the skills...but that isnt enough for the offense we want to run. I really dont want to see him leave.. but if we get a big workhorse back that can do the job.. I hope we can trade him to someone for a nice profit.

on the other hand.. if our Oline improves and gives Davis some nice holes.. his durability wont be as much of a factor and he COULD be our franchise back. Or if he just toughens up.. that is a possibility too.

Time will tell.. but no, at this point in time he is not, in my mind, our franchise back.

Fiddy
12-20-2004, 12:17 AM
I'm sorry but that may have been the stupidest thing i have ever heard. I dont understand how and why a team gives 201 yards to anyone to help them win a game. first its not his fault they lost the game. Carr played horrible that game and the passing game was shutdown. Not to mention our D went up against the what i recall is the 1st ranked offense in the league. If it hadn't been for Davis putting the offense on his back we would have seen antoher blowout like we did in INDY. DD accounts from damn near 50% of the Texans offense.

And if you don't mind me asking what is your definition of a franchise back?I wish I could find that article about empty yards that John Clayton wrote on ESPN.com. I will. You can think its stupid but it worked for the Colts. They didnt want AJ/Gaff/Bradford to touch the ball so they allowed Davis to get the ball virtually every play because they knew Davis couldnt kill them and AJ could. Have any of you guys ever noticed that Davis is always open in the flat??? If defenses were really scared of him, wouldnt they tell a LB to cover him??? They dont tell LBs to cover him because they want Davis to get the ball. The passing game was shut down because the Colts focused on the WRs and didnt worry about Davis. And when Davis accounts for 50% of the offense, we lose.



My defenition of a frachise back is someone who can last most of the season and doesnt always have nagging injurys. A franchise back also has to be someone who can get the tough yards and make something out of nothing. Has to be able to run over people and run past people.

ComstockLode
12-20-2004, 12:18 AM
Anyone still questioning Domanick Davis as our main back next year?


Get back to me when he stays healthy through a whole season, and averages over 4.0 ypc. Or maybe even a good performance against a good defense...

Fiddy
12-20-2004, 12:20 AM
I wish I could find that article about empty yards that John Clayton wrote on ESPN.com. I will.Bingo. An Example of empty yards: Empty Yards by John Clayton (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=1894509)

There is another one I am trying to find, though.

AndreJ
12-20-2004, 12:22 AM
Ok im just gonna stop here, its 12:16 in the morning and frankly i dont give a damn anymore i think he has a lot of potential with it only being his second year and you don't.

Glad you feel that way

Bottom line good game today, We win evrybody is happy.
See yall l8r today. :thud:

Fiddy
12-20-2004, 12:24 AM
Ok im just gonna stop here, its 12:16 in the morning and frankly i dont give a damn anymore i think he has a lot of potential with it only being his second year and you don't.

Glad you feel that way

Bottom line good game today, We win evrybody is happy.
See yall l8r today. :thud:Good night, but he doesnt have potential. Someone who has potential has top line speed or is someone who has unbelievable strength. What you see with Davis is what we are going to get for years to come if he is our franchise back...

Vinny
12-20-2004, 01:06 AM
The most important stat is touchdowns. When Dom gets his huge yardage figures off of dump passes, they have worth, but exactly what is that worth when you are not scoring TD's? Dom has 55 receptions and 1 TD. Next, compare that to a running back that puts fear in an opposing defense when he catches a dump off pass. Brian Westbrook gives the Eagles offense incredible diversity and puts real fear in opposing defenses. Westbrook has 65 receptions and 6 TD's so far. Westbrook is a pure threat. He can beat you with a simple dump off pass on a given play. This reception stat line isn't "empty" for Westbrook because he makes teams pay. Dom's 55 touches with one TD does not strike any fear in enemy defenses over the course of a season (two more games and its over this year).

Dom is going to make a great complimentary back for a long time here, but durability is his other fatal issue as an NFL lead back. The NFL season is too short to be unsure if your back is durable enough to take on a season without missing games. Each game is extremely important, next year we want to make a playoff run so I can't see us going into next year just hoping that Dom stays healthy. Heck, one more win and we are still talking playoffs around here this week. One game can blow your playoffs slot or simply being nicked up during the playoffs will make us change our offense if we rely on Dom and just hope he will do what he has never done.

I am stealing this next part from what I posted at hpf but I don't mind. :listening I think those who think that we will not pursue a back next year isn't looking deep enough at what kind of offense we are trying to model. Look at what happened when the Steelers shored up their running game with Staley. Last year they knew that Bettis would need to give up touches and the Steelers have pounded the league to a one-loss season so far as Staley has allowed them to keep within their offense. Last year they were 6-10. Staley isn't a superstar, but he was another solid back to give the Steelers a dependable running attack from game to game. The season is too short to become a playoff factor having to rely on a back like Dom with Wells and Hollings as the only other alternatives. We can't 'rely' on Hollings or keep assuming we will get him up to the level of an NFL feature back (if it happens it happens at this point) and I don't consider Wells a quality starter on a playoff caliber team.

HoustonFan
12-20-2004, 01:39 AM
Never questioned DD as the main back. Just wishing they'd let Carr throw the ball more.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
12-20-2004, 03:10 AM
DD is a good 3rd down back. Nothing more, nothing less.

jacquescas
12-20-2004, 03:40 AM
All things being considered, Davis will start his career with consecutive 1000 yard seasons. Its about as good as a start you could ask for from a 4th round pick.

No, he is not an edgarin James or a Ricky Williams, but he has an extremely promising start to his career. With better blocking up front, and getting over that fumbling problem he should be even better next year.

At least he is fine for the next season, no draft picks or high draft picks need to be invested in the RB position.

rittenhouserobz
12-20-2004, 06:23 AM
I am just wondering. If it is Hollings instead of DD would the opposing defense have to respect him a little more?

aj.
12-20-2004, 06:27 AM
Hollings has better flat out speed than Davis but the problem with him is that first you have to be able to see a hole between the tackles, then be able to cut into it, then run to daylight without ripping your hammy before anything else can happen...

dalemurphy
12-20-2004, 06:47 AM
DD is a good 3rd down back. Nothing more, nothing less.

Look, Davis is a lot more than "a good 3rd down back"... I'd like to see an upgrade at RB also. However, Davis does have many of the tools that great backs posess. I think his main problem is durability- most troubling, is I think he doesn't run well when he's banged up. That being said, if the team is able to address two areas of this team in the offseason, I'll be extremely disappointed if it's RB... It need to be the defensive front 7 and the OL!

By the way, what kind of season do you think DD would have behind the KC offensive line?

aj.
12-20-2004, 07:07 AM
Davis is going to end up with around 3,000 total yards and over 20 TDs in his first two seasons. He may not be a 1st tier lead back, but he's better than just a third-down back.

nunusguy
12-20-2004, 07:44 AM
Davis has really been playing well in the last few weeks and looks like he's
gotten over his fumbleitis problems from early in the year - holding on to the
ball in Chi-town yesterday while "the hawk" was kicking tail was a big test for
any back and Davis passed with flying colors. But I still think we need to upgrade to a RB who has more durability and has that sudden burst out of the backfield that's a half-step quicker than DD. Stabilizing the offensive line and finding a TE are more important priorities for the offense, but upgrading DD is important to.

HJam72
12-20-2004, 07:53 AM
I think we should take out the TE and use DD as a slot receiver, lol. Of course, we'd have to have somebody else running the ball.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
12-20-2004, 08:37 AM
DD is a very good 3rd down back. Better?

Hervoyel
12-20-2004, 08:48 AM
I think that Davis is a good fit for the Texans IF a couple of things happen.

IF the run blocking becomes what the Texans coaches intend for it to become then yes, Davis is a good enough back. In fact I think with his running style he'll flourish in that system and end up looking a lot better than he probably is.

IF the Texans can actually master the fine art of fielding an offense that's capable of both passing (to actual recievers) and running the ball then again, yes, Davis is a good enough back. The pass protection has to be there all the time, not just when Carr finally loses it and starts screaming at the linemen (which by the way was a good thing to see. They had it coming bigtime)

Can you find a better back? Probably and I don't think the Texans are in love with Davis to the point of not being willing to upgrade the position. They just might do it this coming draft or they might wait another year. Eventually though I expect them to draft someone who's going to push Davis and then take the job away.

Yankee_In_TX
12-20-2004, 08:49 AM
Muahaha, I am tired. Ignore that.

*still don't know how to delete posts*

I am happy DD is probably going to get his 1k this year!

I think my boy Wells is a darned good 3rd down back. However, he can do so much more else where as a starting back. I'll be sad to see him go, but I think it's in his best interest.

Hervoyel
12-20-2004, 09:15 AM
Hollings has better flat out speed than Davis

Which means exactly nothing since Hollings speed never comes into play while he's inactive and nursing an injury. If in fact Davis is "injury plagued" (and I tend to agree that he is) then Hollings is absolutely fragile. At least he has been this season.

I want to see Tony Hollings do what he's supposed to be able to someday do but at the moment he's the starting RB on my "Texans All-Time Greatest Players Who Were Hurt All The Time" team.

The offense is filling out nicely on that team by the way. We're already starting Tony Boselli, Ryan Young, Bennie Joppru, and Tony Hollings!

infantrycak
12-20-2004, 09:52 AM
Have any of yall noticed that when Davis has a good run, one of the annoucers says "great block by ____." Davis cant make things happen by himself.

Funny that you should say that after the Chicago game--where there was a play that DD got smooth hit by two guys at the line of scrimmage due to poor blocking and made it into a 6-7 yard gain purely on individual effort. He ain't a top tier RB, but there is no need to make stuff up about him.

And PS--there is a lot of distance between pro-bowl RB and 3rd down back. DD is somewhere in between--just dumb to act like he is at either extreme.

Fiddy
12-20-2004, 10:01 AM
Funny that you should say that after the Chicago game--where there was a play that DD got smooth hit by two guys at the line of scrimmage due to poor blocking and made it into a 6-7 yard gain purely on individual effort. He ain't a top tier RB, but there is no need to make stuff up about him.

And PS--there is a lot of distance between pro-bowl RB and 3rd down back. DD is somewhere in between--just dumb to act like he is at either extreme.I could of missed that play because I had to help my dad in the garage. But I do remember a couple of his runs where the annoucer said "great block by ___"

TheOgre
12-20-2004, 10:08 AM
DD is a serviceable starting back for now. However, with the emphasis that Capers puts on the running game, I think we need a big punishing yet explosive back like Jamal Lewis.

Wolf
12-20-2004, 10:15 AM
Davis is a solid player, but he isn't one that gives defenses nightmares. They don't game plan to stop Davis .. Basically they game plan to stop AJ and with that, it seems, it stops Carr (on most games) because who else does he throw to? AJ and Davis..

AJ is the playmaker and Davis isn't
It would be nice if davis was a step faster and maybe Santa will bring that.

Yankee_In_TX
12-20-2004, 10:17 AM
AJ is the playmaker and Davis isn't
It would be nice if davis was a step faster and maybe Santa will bring that.
Maybe it's just me, but he seems to pause, just for a second, and holes fill up.

Instead of just running north/south, or having the naturally instinct for cutting into holes, IMO he pasuses for too long and loses himself yards.

BornOrange
12-20-2004, 10:19 AM
The Texans need a back who can consistently break tackles. There were several plays where Davis was able to break some tackles, but most of the time he is tackled by the first defender to lay a hand on him.

When the Texans have a back who can get yardage when the other team knows the Texans are going to run, that is when the Texans will be a dangerous team.

Wolf
12-20-2004, 10:22 AM
get out of my head BornOrange!

I was just thinking the same thing.


about the gameplaning.. someone on this thread posted about Davis getting "empty yards" (200 and something). that basically proved the theory of defenses not gameplanning to stop Davis and just to stop AJ. What I remember is even with Davis getting the yards. Aj isn't getting the ball because teams still roll 2 players on AJ. I don't know the stats, but seems our offense suffers when Davis gets the load. I am not knocking DD, but seems our offense goes one dimentional.

and when DD has those games, I don't recall teams stacking the line or bringing a safety up just to stop the run.

aj.
12-20-2004, 11:45 AM
Originally Posted by aj.
Hollings has better flat out speed than Davis


Hervoyel: Which means exactly nothing since Hollings speed never comes into play while he's inactive and nursing an injury. If in fact Davis is "injury plagued" (and I tend to agree that he is) then Hollings is absolutely fragile. At least he has been this season.

That's why I said what I did in the rest of the statement, i.e., "Hollings has better flat out speed than Davis, but..." (paraphrasing now) ... he couldn't find a hole between the tackles if it bit him in the *** and he can't stay healthy.

shinerbock_girl
12-20-2004, 01:08 PM
Have any of yall noticed that when Davis has a good run, one of the annoucers says "great block by ____." Davis cant make things happen by himself. Franchise backs make things happen by themselves with no help. Example: Jamal Lewis today had a play where it was 3rd or 4th down with 13 yards to go. Boller was rushed and Lewis caught if for 3 yards and then broke 3 tackles to make sure he got the 1st. Davis cant put his will on defenders...

Yeah and when he gets a good run, ITS CALLED BACK BY STUPID PENALITIES ....GEEEZZZZ....

DreamCatcher
12-20-2004, 01:26 PM
DD is looking good and will do the job for the Texans if the run blockers continue to work well with him.

Doug
12-20-2004, 01:47 PM
Personally, I love watching DD run, he fights for every yard he can get. He's had his share of problems with the fumbles, health issues, lack of confidence but he's back in great form. 3rd down back, goes down after one hit, etc. I don't know which running back you've been watching but it's not this guy. I give him till the end of next year to make a final decision on the situation but I've got a feeling he's going to make alot of people's opinions change about him between now and then.

Beastlyman2003
12-20-2004, 02:39 PM
Domanick, over the past few games HAS been wreckin on people. hes been catchin passes for consistent 7 yard gains, and why not? I'll take a consistent 7 yard gain all day long if it gets us into position to score. And what is this **** about other coaches give him 200-yard games? They dont want to be ran all over and they DO HAVE LBs covering him most of the time. He is much faster than 260lb Linebackers, and he is going to get open in the open field if being covered by a LB. Empty yards?

:hairpull: STUPIDITY IS ANNOYING! :hairpull:

HJam72
12-20-2004, 03:34 PM
DD has been getting empty yards. He's been running against mostly all zone pass coverages. He's not explosive enough to make them stop running those and then, when we pass, he looks even better because he gets the receptions because they're still shutting down the wide-outs, BECAUSE HE NEVER DID ENOUGH AGAINST THE ZONE PASS COVERAGES. I'm sure some of this is the line's fault, but I don't think DD is the answer. Those stats that Fiddy put out were really telling. This team has suffered when DD has SEEMED to be at his best and it's all being orchestrated by the opposing defensive coordinators. They're not giving DD 200 yds., but that's what he should get, because they are giving him 100. I'm refering to RUSHING yards, of course.

Fiddy
12-20-2004, 03:34 PM
Domanick, over the past few games HAS been wreckin on people. hes been catchin passes for consistent 7 yard gains, and why not? I'll take a consistent 7 yard gain all day long if it gets us into position to score. And what is this **** about other coaches give him 200-yard games? They dont want to be ran all over and they DO HAVE LBs covering him most of the time. He is much faster than 260lb Linebackers, and he is going to get open in the open field if being covered by a LB. Empty yards?Did we win the game where he got 200 yards??? No. So talk about how many yards he get a game, but guess what. We LOSE the games he gets yards!!! In his 5 career high games in yards, the Texans are 1-4. What are teams measured by??? Wins. The Patriots are the 11th ranked defense in yards per game, but they are 4th in scoring defense. Therefore, the yards teams are putting up on them are empty because no one can score. Davis gets 201 yards, we only score 14 points and lose. Carr looked bad because teams werent falling for any playfake. They were covering AJ, Gaff, and Bradford and pinned their ears back and rushed Carr. Davis gets a step one them, no problem. He wont rip off the 50 yarder, so he wont kill them.

:hairpull: IGNORANCE IS ANNOYING! :hairpull:

HJam72
12-20-2004, 03:40 PM
You know, it's also obvious at this point that the DLs are keying on Carr on every play, also. They're not worrying about DD until after they see him with the ball. So much for play action.

AndreJ
12-20-2004, 03:56 PM
Yall make it seem like its his fault that the team loses when he has a wonderful gaame. Its a team sport for christs sake. Think about that.

wags
12-20-2004, 03:56 PM
Did we win the game where he got 200 yards??? No. So talk about how many yards he get a game, but guess what. We LOSE the games he gets yards!!! In his 5 career high games in yards, the Texans are 1-4. What are teams measured by??? Wins.

I just don't understand your logic. Your correlation between DD and our win-loss record might have merit if we were a good team. We are a bad team and we lose the majority of our games regardless of how DD plays. You can't blame DD for our record. Can the Titans pin there last two losses on Billy Volek? No. You know why? Because the Titans stink. Football is a team sport and one individual doesn't cause a win or loss.

How many receptions did Marshall Faulk have during the Rams glory days? Did they just give him these receptions because he wasn't a big play threat? With Isaac Bruce,Torry Holt and the greatest show on turf, how could Marshall Faulk be their leading receiver? How could the Rams win the Super Bowl in a year where Marshall had 80-85 receptions?

HJam72
12-20-2004, 04:07 PM
Yall make it seem like its his fault that the team loses when he has a wonderful gaame. Its a team sport for christs sake. Think about that.

I think we need a better STARTING RB. Yes, it's a team sport. If we had the old Cowboys O-line and Montana at QB with Rice and AJ as wide-outs, then we would certainly still win with DD. Also, nobody is accusing DD of a lack of effort here. The guy just doesn't break defenses. He's a 3rd down back and Wells is a goal-line back.

HJam72
12-20-2004, 04:26 PM
In the last 7 games, we've averages 118.3 yds. rushing and 171.6 yds. passing. They're ignoring DD.

Fiddy
12-20-2004, 04:45 PM
I just don't understand your logic. Your correlation between DD and our win-loss record might have merit if we were a good team. We are a bad team and we lose the majority of our games regardless of how DD plays. You can't blame DD for our record. Can the Titans pin there last two losses on Billy Volek? No. You know why? Because the Titans stink. Football is a team sport and one individual doesn't cause a win or loss.

How many receptions did Marshall Faulk have during the Rams glory days? Did they just give him these receptions because he wasn't a big play threat? With Isaac Bruce,Torry Holt and the greatest show on turf, how could Marshall Faulk be their leading receiver? How could the Rams win the Super Bowl in a year where Marshall had 80-85 receptions?I am not blaming him for the loses, but saying that the yards he gets are empty. If any other back get 201 total yards, their team will most likely win. But when Davis gets these yards, the team doesnt win. Even when bad teams RBs get 200 total yards they win, we dont.

Marshall Faulk was a game breaking back. He could take a 7 yard dump off and take it 40 yards for the TD. I have yet to see Davis do that once. It is an insult to Marshall Faulk to compare him in his prime to Davis.

HJam72
12-20-2004, 04:49 PM
Here's what I don't get though, Fiddy. When DD ran so well last year were they using zone pass coverages against us so much then also? Because, if they weren't, then judging the whole thing gets more complicated.

Fiddy
12-20-2004, 04:54 PM
Here's what I don't get though, Fiddy. When DD ran so well last year were they using zone pass coverages against us so much then also? Because, if they weren't, then judging the whole thing gets more complicated.I honestly dont remember what teams did to us last year and it would be hard to judge considering all the injuries we had...

texan279
12-20-2004, 04:55 PM
I would still like to see us go after Lamont Jordan or Larry Johnson after this season. That would give us a speedier RB, Davis as a 3rd down back, and Wells as a goalline back. I am pretty sure Johnson is faster than Davis, not sure about Jordan though, I might be wrong I dunno. IMO it would give us 3 different RB's that could all contribute different things to our run game, so we could mix it up some.

AndreJ
12-20-2004, 05:28 PM
In the last 7 games, we've averages 118.3 yds. rushing and 171.6 yds. passing. They're ignoring DD.

You just answered your own question right there. 171.6 yards! that is horrible if anybody is to blame its Carr! Well not necessarily the blame should be based on the O-Line they can't keep any Defense off of Carr's back and give him time to make a pass play. The running game is not where the problem lies its the passing game. In the beginning of the season people were saying that carr couldn't do it all without and running game well he got that, but then the passing protection fell to ****.

I think once our O-Line gets together and start blocking like they are suppose to then our running game will get even better and the passing game will do the same. The offense revolves around the O-Line. To pass you have to have time in the pocket without being pressured. And to run obviously you have to a good O-Line to run the ball also. Even for special teams you have to have a good O-Line. We saw against Tennesee, Rien Long just steppd str8 through and blocked Kris Brown's field goal. Nearly costing us a 10 point swing! :thud:

It is a new blocking scheme and the haven't even finished the year, so i am not saying that we should just go find an entirely new line, but with time as the O-Line gets better, you can expect the running game and passing game; offense to take off and be a rell big threat for the opposing defense.

HJam72
12-20-2004, 05:37 PM
I'm not saying that DD is at all our biggest problem. He does, however, have his biggest games when we lose, because the defense is causing it to happen that way.

When a defense uses zone pass coverage throughout the entire game and you lose, it's a bad sign that both your run blocking AND your runner are not getting it done. DD does break some tackles, but not enough. He is definitely good enought to be in the NFL, either as a sub-par starter or as a very good 3rd down back.

He's not fast enough to run outside, he's not big enough to run over people, at least not very often, and he doesn't fake people out or show that he can out maneuvre them. He has some of all of those attributes, but he's not really great at any one of them. He is great at one thing: catching the ball out of the backfield.

Fiddy
12-20-2004, 06:04 PM
You just answered your own question right there. 171.6 yards! that is horrible if anybody is to blame its Carr! Well not necessarily the blame should be based on the O-Line they can't keep any Defense off of Carr's back and give him time to make a pass play. The running game is not where the problem lies its the passing game. In the beginning of the season people were saying that carr couldn't do it all without and running game well he got that, but then the passing protection fell to ****.

I think once our O-Line gets together and start blocking like they are suppose to then our running game will get even better and the passing game will do the same. The offense revolves around the O-Line. To pass you have to have time in the pocket without being pressured. And to run obviously you have to a good O-Line to run the ball also. Even for special teams you have to have a good O-Line. We saw against Tennesee, Rien Long just steppd str8 through and blocked Kris Brown's field goal. Nearly costing us a 10 point swing! :thud:

It is a new blocking scheme and the haven't even finished the year, so i am not saying that we should just go find an entirely new line, but with time as the O-Line gets better, you can expect the running game and passing game; offense to take off and be a rell big threat for the opposing defense.Have you not read one word I have typed in previous posts??? The reason the pass protection sucks is because teams are pinning there ear backs and rushing game. If Davis gets the ball, big deal. The defense will get him. One play that I keep pointing to was during the last Colts game. Davis had a couple of good runs but on 1st and 10 when Carr was in the shotgun and play faked to Davis, Freeney (who had already got by Wand) didnt even flinch at that play fake. He went right after Carr, and oh my goodness. Carr was the one with the ball. Freeney didnt even make an attempt at Carr. If that is LT or some other game breaking back, you better believe Freeney honors the play fake...

Blake
12-20-2004, 06:08 PM
I would still like to see us go after Lamont Jordan or Larry Johnson after this season. That would give us a speedier RB, Davis as a 3rd down back, and Wells as a goalline back. I am pretty sure Johnson is faster than Davis, not sure about Jordan though, I might be wrong I dunno. IMO it would give us 3 different RB's that could all contribute different things to our run game, so we could mix it up some.

With the way Johnson is playing, I dont think they would want to trade him. Or that they ever wanted to trade him.

I dont think a GM would spend a #1 on a guy that they plan on trading.

Fiddy
12-20-2004, 06:23 PM
Lets see how many other teams would take Davis over their current RB:

Bills - The Bills would take McGahee
Dolphins - The Dolphins would take Davis
Pats - The Pats would take Dillion
Jets - The Jets would probably take Jordan and Martin over Davis

Ravens - Jamal Lewis over Davis
Bengals - Rudi Johnson over Davis
Steelers - Staley over Davis
Browns - Suggs over Davis and probably would take Green over Davis (thats one is iffy)

Colts - James over Davis
Jags - Taylor over Davis
Titans - Brown over Davis

Broncos - Bell over Davis
Chiefs - Larry Johnson or Priest Holmes over Davis
Raiders - They take Davis
Chargers - LT over Davis

Girls - Jones over Davis
Giants - Barber over Davis
Redskins - Portis over Davis
Eagles - Westbrook over Davis

Bears - Thomas Jones over Davis
Lions - Kevin Jones over Davis
Packers - Green over Davis
Vikings - Any of their 4 RBs over Davis

Falcons - Duckett or Dunn over Davis
Panthers - Foster over Davis (May even take Goings over Davis)
Saints - McAllister over Davis
Bucs - They would take Davis

Cards - They would take Davis
Rams - Steven Jackson over Davis
49ers - Barlow over Davis (remember that the 49ers liked him so much they gave him a big extension and there are no offensive players on that team)
Seahawks - Alexander over Davis


So out of 31 other franchises, only 4 teams would take Davis and the combined record for those 4 teams is 17-38 (.309 winning percentage)

jr0ck
12-20-2004, 06:43 PM
i think its interesting that everyone keeps bringing up davis' lack of outright speed, among other things. did anyone see the jets game? so what if his 61 yarder was called back, the holding wasn't on the LB's or safety he juked, and i don't remember him getting caught from behind either. and on that note, i can't remember DD getting caught from behind....EVER! and didn't he pick up 23 yds on a sweep against a fairly stout chicago D last sunday? didn't he have to be fast enough to turn the corner to gain those yards? i just can't get the mentallity that davis isn't, at the very least, a good runningback for the texans right now.

why do we have to have a freakish hershal walker/jamal lewis human plow? or a lightning quick barry sanders clone? why don't all the naysayers see that versatility can be just as effective, if not more, than a specialized runningback that only excels in a few areas? and although im not saying davis is even worthy of emmit smith's dirty socks, but i think physical comparisons and running styles can be seen as comprable. was smith the biggest back? was he the fastest back? was he the quickest back? well did any of that stop him from being more than just a "third down back"? did it stop him from being the cowboys "franchise back"?

i hope the comparison doesn't take away from my very valid points to much, but im just a little frustrated with talk drafting a RB high after DD's very workman like performance (with 23 carries, 95 yds and a TD) that contributed to a texans victory. im gonna go watch monday night countdown, but i leave with this thought.....why do we need a back that can break multiple tackles to gain yards? or better said, why are multiple defenders always around our running backs? :bouncey:

HJam72
12-20-2004, 06:48 PM
Emitt Smith was small also, but he broke tackles time and time again. DD doesn't do that. As far as DD being good enough for now, I agree. We need other things more than we need another RB.

Fiddy
12-20-2004, 06:54 PM
i think its interesting that everyone keeps bringing up davis' lack of outright speed, among other things. did anyone see the jets game? so what if his 61 yarder was called back, the holding wasn't on the LB's or safety he juked, and i don't remember him getting caught from behind either. and on that note, i can't remember DD getting caught from behind....EVER! and didn't he pick up 23 yds on a sweep against a fairly stout chicago D last sunday? didn't he have to be fast enough to turn the corner to gain those yards? i just can't get the mentallity that davis isn't, at the very least, a good runningback for the texans right now. why do we have to have a freakish hershal walker/jamal lewis human plow? or a lightning quick barry sanders clone? why don't all the naysayers see that versatility can be just as effective, if not more, than a specialized runningback that only excels in a few areas? and although im not saying davis is even worthy of emmit smith's dirty socks, but i think physical comparisons and running styles can be seen as comprable. was smith the biggest back? was he the fastest back? was he the quickest back? well did any of that stop him from being just a third down back? did it stop him from being the cowboys "franchise back"? i hope the comparison doesn't take away from my very valid points to much, but im just a little frustrated with talk drafting a RB high after DD's very workman performance (with 23 carries, 95 yds and a TD) that contributed to a texans victory. im gonna go watch monday night countdown, but i leave with this thought.....why do we need a back that can break multiple tackles to gain yards? or better said, why are multiple defenders always around our running backs? :bouncey:I dont know what you have been watching, but Davis always gets caught from behind. Even the Bus has a couple of 20 yards run. Lets not get caught up in that. Every back in the league will get a couple of those each year.

We need a back that can break multiple tackles because Capers wants to pound the ball for 4-5 yards a carry and then play action fake deep. We cant do that with Davis. There are multiple defenders around our RB because it is impossible to block everyone. There is always people around Priest, LT, and Jamal Lewis but they find ways to get around, by, and threw them.

Beastlyman2003
12-20-2004, 06:59 PM
49ers-they BENCHED BARLOW for the past two games, and are starting a RB with his only two starts coming while he is STARTING OVER BARLOW! They would most definatly take DD

Bears-Thomas Jones? They would love a trade for DD.They would most definatly take DD

Browns-Lee Suggs had one good game for them...LAST YEAR!What has he done this year? And William green is a first round bust/HEADCASE.

Falcons-TJ Duckett is a Falcons version of Johnathan Wells(also a first round bust) and Warrick Dunn(Texans version of Tony Hollings, not good)

These teams PLUS the others that you already named.

AndreJ
12-20-2004, 07:22 PM
i think its interesting that everyone keeps bringing up davis' lack of outright speed, among other things. did anyone see the jets game? so what if his 61 yarder was called back, the holding wasn't on the LB's or safety he juked, and i don't remember him getting caught from behind either. and on that note, i can't remember DD getting caught from behind....EVER! and didn't he pick up 23 yds on a sweep against a fairly stout chicago D last sunday? didn't he have to be fast enough to turn the corner to gain those yards? i just can't get the mentallity that davis isn't, at the very least, a good runningback for the texans right now. why do we have to have a freakish hershal walker/jamal lewis human plow? or a lightning quick barry sanders clone? why don't all the naysayers see that versatility can be just as effective, if not more, than a specialized runningback that only excels in a few areas? and although im not saying davis is even worthy of emmit smith's dirty socks, but i think physical comparisons and running styles can be seen as comprable. was smith the biggest back? was he the fastest back? was he the quickest back? well did any of that stop him from being just a third down back? did it stop him from being the cowboys "franchise back"? i hope the comparison doesn't take away from my very valid points to much, but im just a little frustrated with talk drafting a RB high after DD's very workman performance (with 23 carries, 95 yds and a TD) that contributed to a texans victory. im gonna go watch monday night countdown, but i leave with this thought.....why do we need a back that can break multiple tackles to gain yards? or better said, why are multiple defenders always around our running backs? :bouncey:

First off, have you ever heard of a paragraph? LoL just kdding. I like what you had to say, especially at the end when you said why are multiple defenders around our running back?

As four Fiddy where are you getting this stuff? Who are you to say a team would take one player over another? All players do not fit all teams schemes. If you dont beleive me take a look at clinton portis, he hasn't done jack **** with the redskins this year. I mean what do you have against DD? I'm dying to know. You keep coming up with this empty yards bull, which i think is the dumbest thing i have ever heard of. If he is moving the chains and getting us first downs whether its a dump off pass, or running the ball then why does it matter. And earlier you said he only get yards off of "great blocks" by a lineman and he cant run by or over anyone for a gain.

Yesterday on his 11 yd TD run he flat out ran over R.W. McQuarters and dragged him into the endzone with R.W. hanging on to his leg. If i recall correctly he did the same thing in houston against Idianaplois on his TD run leaving a trail of defenders in his pass (Please don't make me go find any pictures). What more can the guy do this season he has 972 rushing yards and is leading the AFC running back with 515 recieving yards (1442 yards total)! Their are WR's who wish they could have the many yards recieving. Oh and not to mention his 12 TD's on the season. Who cares if he is moving the ball by running or passing a 12 yd pass is no different the a 12 yard run. The leading running back in the league (Curtis Martin) has 1690 total yards (179 passing) and 14 TD's. DD is only trailing Curtis by 248 yards and 2 TD's, who is to say he isn't getting the job done and that Defenses don't plan for him in their attack when he accounts for damn near 50% of the texans offense. And dont come back and give me that BS (empty yards excuse).

In the past 6 or 7 weeks, he has been doing evrything he can to help out the Texans offense. It is not his fault that our D got embarrassed about 3 games in a row and the Texans lost. What else do you want the guy to do pay off Hocculli (that referee) and tell him to call the game in our favor. Geeesh get off his back. The texans have much bigger problems and holes in the team than trying to find a "franchise back"

P.S As far as DD getting empty yards and nott putting points on the board, he ties Tiki Barber with 11 Rushing TD's and thats 6th in the NFL. Once again he's doing his job and it aint his fault the taxans have been losing. :hmmm:

Beastlyman2003
12-20-2004, 07:38 PM
THANK YOU!!!!! FINALLY SOMEONE SAID IT! WHAT DO YOU HAVE AGAINST HIM? Last summer, me and you were arguing about who was the better back, DD or Tony Hollings? You must have a problem with him! if he is one of the TOP PRODUCING RBs(total yards), and you are still wining about him being the reason we lose games, you will never be happy. Please dont gimme that **** about "empty yards" anymore.undefined

Fiddy
12-20-2004, 07:38 PM
49ers-they BENCHED BARLOW for the past two games, and are starting a RB with his only two starts coming while he is STARTING OVER BARLOW! They would most definatly take DD

Bears-Thomas Jones? They would love a trade for DD.They would most definatly take DD

Browns-Lee Suggs had one good game for them...LAST YEAR!What has he done this year? And William green is a first round bust/HEADCASE.

Falcons-TJ Duckett is a Falcons version of Johnathan Wells(also a first round bust) and Warrick Dunn(Texans version of Tony Hollings, not good)

These teams PLUS the others that you already named.Have you seen what has happened to the 49ers over the last year??? They lost their star WR, their Pro Bowl QB, and a couple of starting offensive lineman. If you dont think Davis is getting blocks, take a look at a 49ers game and you will be happy. But you know what, the 2-12 record they have shows it.

Thomas Jones was tearing people up the first couple of weeks of the season, until he got injured. He signed a 4 year, $10 million deal with a $3.5 million in the offseason. And that was because of 3 good games. I doubt Davis could get that money...but since I am such a nice guy, I will give you the Bears

Okay, I will give you the Browns.

I dont know how you can be calling TJ Duckett a bust and Dunn a version of Hollings. Duckett is averaging 4.8 yards a carry this season, while Dunn is running 4.2 yards per carry. They play their ROLE very nicely. I will not give you these, too.

So lets add the 2-12 49ers, the 5-9 Bears, and the 3-11 Browns to the 17-38 record. That drops the winning percentage of teams that would take Davis to .278. Have you noticed that all the teams that would take Davis are teams that stink???

Beastlyman2003
12-20-2004, 07:52 PM
Whats your point? Arent bad teams supposed to look to upgrade with better players? I guarantee you that if some of those teams had DD as a RB, they would not have such bad records. Heck, with DD, the dolphins could be talking playoffs.

And by the way, A major knock on Bryan Westbrook was that he is a "good third down back", not a starter. So, DD and Brian Westbrook are about even.

Fiddy
12-20-2004, 07:55 PM
As four Fiddy where are you getting this stuff? Who are you to say a team would take one player over another? All players do not fit all teams schemes. If you dont beleive me take a look at clinton portis, he hasn't done jack **** with the redskins this year. I mean what do you have against DD? I'm dying to know. You keep coming up with this empty yards bull, which i think is the dumbest thing i have ever heard of. If he is moving the chains and getting us first downs whether its a dump off pass, or running the ball then why does it matter. And earlier you said he only get yards off of "great blocks" by a lineman and he cant run by or over anyone for a gain.

Yesterday on his 11 yd TD run he flat out ran over R.W. McQuarters and dragged him into the endzone with R.W. hanging on to his leg. If i recall correctly he did the same thing in houston against Idianaplois on his TD run leaving a trail of defenders in his pass (Please don't make me go find any pictures). What more can the guy do this season he has 972 rushing yards and is leading the AFC running back with 515 recieving yards (1442 yards total)! Their are WR's who wish they could have the many yards recieving. Oh and not to mention his 12 TD's on the season. Who cares if he is moving the ball by running or passing a 12 yd pass is no different the a 12 yard run. The leading running back in the league (Curtis Martin) has 1690 total yards (179 passing) and 14 TD's. DD is only trailing Curtis by 248 yards and 2 TD's, who is to say he isn't getting the job done and that Defenses don't plan for him in their attack when he accounts for damn near 50% of the texans offense. And dont come back and give me that BS (empty yards excuse).

In the past 6 or 7 weeks, he has been doing evrything he can to help out the Texans offense. It is not his fault that our D got embarrassed about 3 games in a row and the Texans lost. What else do you want the guy to do pay off Hocculli (that referee) and tell him to call the game in our favor. Geeesh get off his back. The texans have much bigger problems and holes in the team than trying to find a "franchise back"

P.S As far as DD getting empty yards and nott putting points on the board, he ties Tiki Barber with 11 Rushing TD's and thats 6th in the NFL. Once again he's doing his job and it aint his fault the taxans have been losing. :hmmm:Clinton Portis hasn't done jack ***??? 1283 rushing yards. idonno:

I dont have anything against Davis, I just think their could be an upgrade at the position.

Games arent won by first downs, they are won by points...

Yep, Davis did have a good TD run but every RB in the league can bust out a broken tackle every now and then for a short TD.

Of Curtis Martin's total yards, 1511 them have come on the ground with a 4.6 yards per carry average. Martin does his damage on the ground. So lets not compare them.

Pretend you are a Defensive Coordinator for a team that is about to face the Texans. The first thing that comes to your mind is Andre Johnson and Co. with Carr throwing the ball. If you read quotes from opposing coaches, they never mention Davis. Jeff Fisher cant shut up about AJ, I dont remember him drolling over Davis. But back to the D. Coor. job. You have got to figure out how to stop the passing game because you know when the Texans are passing the ball effectivley, they are winning. So you take away the pass by putting everyone into pass coverage. You are going to allow Davis to get those yards because they wont result in points.

When you bring up Davis' TD #'s, you are saying that he is responsible all the time for getting the ball down their. In another one of my post, I showed every TD run Davis has had this year. A majority of them were one yarders. Wells could have all those TDs if you made him the "goal line" back.

When Davis accounts for 50% of our offense, we lose so why are you bragging about that???

Fiddy
12-20-2004, 07:59 PM
Whats your point? Arent bad teams supposed to look to upgrade with better players? I guarantee you that if some of those teams had DD as a RB, they would not have such bad records. Heck, with DD, the dolphins could be talking playoffs.

And by the way, A major knock on Bryan Westbrook was that he is a "good third down back", not a starter. So, DD and Brian Westbrook are about even.My point is that good teams wouldnt have Davis as a starter. They would have him as a 3rd down back. I am going to pretend you didnt say that about the 2-11 Dolphins talking about the playoff with him, they couldnt even make them with Ricky...

Westbrook has break away speed so they are not even.

Fiddy
12-20-2004, 08:06 PM
THANK YOU!!!!! FINALLY SOMEONE SAID IT! WHAT DO YOU HAVE AGAINST HIM? Last summer, me and you were arguing about who was the better back, DD or Tony Hollings? You must have a problem with him! if he is one of the TOP PRODUCING RBs(total yards), and you are still wining about him being the reason we lose games, you will never be happy. Please dont gimme that **** about "empty yards" anymore.undefinedWhy do you have to wait for people to say it, why dont you just ask it???

Ask TexansTrueFan, I have nothing against Davis. There can be an upgrade at the position, thats all I think. I critize Pitts sometimes, but that doesnt mean that I dont like him...

And Tony Hollings made me look like a dumb-youknowwhat-

I will be happy when we are winning...

Beastlyman2003
12-20-2004, 08:13 PM
Why would they not make it with Ricky? Who else did they lose over the off season? If anything they would have been better than last year because they aquired David Boston. Which adds another demension to their offense, that they didnt have last year(another top reciever to compliment Chris Chambers)
with a line up of Ricky Williams, Chris Chambers, David Boston, Randy McMichael, and then with their defense being one of the top in the league. They would be in the playoff hunt.

AndreJ
12-20-2004, 08:14 PM
Yes clinton portis hasn't done jack **** this year i said it. Sure he has 1283 yards, but he also has the most carries in the league (333 carries) and is only avg. 3.9 yards a carry where as his previous two years he avg. 5.5. He also only has 225 passing yards. 225+1283=1508. I think that is what maybe 50 yards more than Davis has had this year not to mention he has missed a few games.

Anyways enough of Portis, what Davis lacks in the running game he makes up in the passing game. For the record, all RB's cannot catch the ball (Jamal Lewis) I have also seen Sean. Alexander drop many passes. Something we never see DD do. Just so you know DD acounts for 50% of our offense in all our games, not just the gm's we lose. And for the last time stop placing the blame on DD for losing the games, by saying when he has 50% of our offense we lose because he always has 50% of our offense. It is not his fault and football is a TEAM sport. It aint like tennis or golf in case you haven't noticed. :hmmm:

Damn, and i said this was gonna be sweet and short.

brickmantexanfan
12-20-2004, 08:17 PM
Gee,I wonder how many of you are just on the wagon off the wagon fans of DD,and also how many of you pushed for him to be Rookie of the year last year,you will see in time that he is a good choice for the Texans,you know somtimes players have bad years,just like coaches and everyday workers,maybe he is not a priest holmes,then again maybe he just hasn't been in the league long enough to get that edge,but I know, this last year he was awesome,and there has to be a reason why he hasn't given us that same performance as last year,what ever the prob is I still believe he will show what he is about in the future.

Fiddy
12-20-2004, 08:18 PM
Why would they not make it with Ricky? Who else did they lose over the off season? If anything they would have been better than last year because they aquired David Boston. Which adds another demension to their offense, that they didnt have last year(another top reciever to compliment Chris Chambers)
with a line up of Ricky Williams, Chris Chambers, David Boston, Randy McMichael, and then with their defense being one of the top in the league. They would be in the playoff hunt.They didnt make it with Ricky when he played over there, thats the point. Ricky never led the Dolphins to the playoffs.

kbourda
12-20-2004, 08:21 PM
I really don't see what so wrong with DD (aside from durability). From what I see (with the type of offense that Capers would like to run) he fits the mold.

Fiddy
12-20-2004, 08:34 PM
Yes clinton portis hasn't done jack **** this year i said it. Sure he has 1283 yards, but he also has the most carries in the league (333 carries) and is only avg. 3.9 yards a carry where as his previous two years he avg. 5.5. He also only has 225 passing yards. 225+1283=1508. I think that is what maybe 50 yards more than Davis has had this year not to mention he has missed a few games.

Anyways enough of Portis, what Davis lacks in the running game he makes up in the passing game. For the record, all RB's cannot catch the ball (Jamal Lewis) I have also seen Sean. Alexander drop many passes. Something we never see DD do. Just so you know DD acounts for 50% of our offense in all our games, not just the gm's we lose. And for the last time stop placing the blame on DD for losing the games, by saying when he has 50% of our offense we lose because he always has 50% of our offense. It is not his fault and football is a TEAM sport. It aint like tennis or golf in case you haven't noticed. :hmmm:

Damn, and i said this was gonna be sweet and short.Its funny you say that Portis' 3.9 isnt good when Davis is averaging 3.6. Davis has always missed games, so why are you putting "not to mention"??? Davis missed games, that should be counted against him.

Most RBs can catch the ball and when you have pounded out 2000 rushing yards in a season, you really dont need that ability and look at Alexander's career stats. He has been able to catch the ball. It seems that dropping balls has been a problem for anyone on that Seahawks offense. And Alexander has had 4 straight seasons of 15 total TDs...

:read:

Davis accounted for 0% of the offense in the Oakland win...
Davis accounted for 9% of the offense in the Chiefs win...
Davis accounted for 7% of the offense in the Titans road win...
Davis accounted for 26% of the offense in the Jags win...
Davis accounted for 48% of the offense in the Titans home win...
Davis accounted for 37% of the offense in the Bears win...

Davis accounted for all the offense in the first half of the Vikings game and we got 0 points, Davis accounted for little offense in the second half of the Vikings game and we scored 28 points...

So what were you saying???

AndreJ
12-20-2004, 08:38 PM
Do you have a website or source where you got those numbers from or did you just make them up in your head?

Fiddy
12-20-2004, 08:39 PM
Do you have a website or source where you got those numbers from or did you just make them up in your head?Got them from NFL.com and just added Davis' yards totals up and put it over the total offensive yards for the game...

AndreJ
12-20-2004, 08:45 PM
Got them from NFL.com and just added Davis' yards totals up and put it over the total offensive yards for the game...

Somehow i question your ability to multiply, add, divide etc.... after your "empty yards" statement that you got from 1 writer from ESPN. Anyways whether you think we need to make a change or not Davis aint going nowhere no time soon. So you can just get used to him being around and i'm done with it i made my point. You can argue with yourself from this point on out. We can butt heads in another thread. Until then...........Go TEXANS!!!!!!!!!!! :banana: :coolb:

6-8 and still improving.

Fiddy
12-20-2004, 08:51 PM
Somehow i question your ability to multiply, add, divide etc.... after your "empty yards" statement that you got from 1 writer from ESPN. Anyways whether you think we need to make a change or not Davis aint going nowhere no time soon. So you can just get used to him being around and i'm done with it i made my point. You can argue with yourself from this point on out. We can butt heads in another thread. Until then...........Go TEXANS!!!!!!!!!!! :banana: :coolb:

6-8 and still improving.It's called a calculator so dont worry about any mathmatical errors...

And if you dont like my empty yards comment please enlighten me on how teams can give up a lot of yards but still win games??? The Colts give up a lot of yards, but their defense doesnt give up a lot of points so what do those yards mean...nothing...

And a writer didnt say it, the coach of the playoff bound Atlanta Falcons said it...

Huge
12-20-2004, 09:28 PM
I haven't bothered to read much of this. But I do have a question regarding Davis:

Is he going to come out next year and predict a 2,000 yard season again?

I'm okay with him being the starter for now. But I don't believe he's the long term answer. If he split carries with another RB, that'd be fine. But he's not a franchise RB in the sense you can count on 20+ carries a game and still expect him to be productive.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
12-20-2004, 09:35 PM
Domanick Davis = Kevin Faulk

wags
12-20-2004, 09:41 PM
Domanick Davis = Kevin Faulk

I think I know what you mean by this, but a bad comparison. Kevin Faulk has never had anywhere near the production of DD. He has never been a feature back and DD has. Kevin Faulk's best season is about half of what DD will do this year.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
12-20-2004, 09:48 PM
DD is a less than average runner and a good receiver. That is what I meant.

Wolf
12-21-2004, 12:14 AM
I fumbled through all the threads and actually read them.

Again nothing against Davis.. TEAMS DON'T GAMEPLAN AROUND DAVIS...THEY LET HIM GET THE YARDS ... BEND BUT DON'T BREAK...If teams were worried about Davis.. why is AJ STILL being doubled when Davis is doing all the offensive work? common sense would tell you that teams would bring a safety up and "spy" on davis and in turn open up the offense to the play action pass... sorry but that doesn't happen.

BTW the "empty yards " that is thrown around.. that is what it is that he gets. 200 total yards offense and 1 td .. julius jones ran for 150+ and had 3 TD's that isn't empty yards...

Is it Davis' fault? NO! .. it is just that teams know he won't break one (unless the moon and planets all lineup perfectly) ... If AJ had 200 yards receiving what do you think would happen?

TheOgre
12-21-2004, 08:03 AM
The fact that defenses are actually encouraging us to hand off to DD, says everything you need to know about this topic. He isn't the long-term answer.

Doug
12-21-2004, 08:26 AM
Maybe it's just me but I could swear this is only DD's second year in the league. Everyone says it takes 3 years or so to see if a pick from the draft was worth anything and yet we took DD in the 4th to be a kick returner and special teams player. Sounds like some of you are expecting superman to come in and carry this offense on their back but I thought that's what Carr was for. LOL Great players take time to prove themselves. You have those very few that are natural NFL players and excel as soon as they come into the league. Then you have some that take a little time but once they find that groove are bound for greatness. And of course you have the ones that fall flat on their face. DD is the middle one. Everyone is passing judgement after two years in the league and I think some of your expectations are a bit high for one position considering if this is the way you're going to look at our team then the whole group needs an upgrade and we need to find replacements for everyone, especially Carr in his third year! This argument is a joke and if you wanna talk empty yards then I guess Edge (One of the leading rushers) wouldn't be an upgrade considering everyone is pretty much keying on Peyton, Harrison, Wayne and Stokely and Edges yards are empty. Gimme a break!

Doug
12-21-2004, 08:27 AM
WoooooooooooooooHooooooooooo Veteran!

Grid
12-21-2004, 08:35 AM
well for one.. for where we got him and what we got him for.. he has been much better than expected. However, that doesnt make him the franchise back.

two, while the 3 year thing may apply to alot of draft picks, with RBs i think you generally expect results out of them pretty quick.. they do not have long careers. That doesnt mean they dont continue to improve and that by waiting on one you can end up with a good back later.. but its not usually the case with RBs.. from my limited experience anyway.

three, Edge doesnt get empty yards.. they are not covering the receivers and letting edge run because he isnt a big threat.. they are covering the receivers because manning is a BIGGER threat. And if you look at the numbers edge has put up with his "empty yards".. and compare them to DDs numbers.. you will notice that DD is not in Edge's league.

Honestly though.. I think DD COULD be our franchise back.. he as the skills to be one.. the only problem is durability. So far he has shown that he just doesnt have it.

TheOgre
12-21-2004, 08:42 AM
RB's take the least amount of time of any position to develop. For the most part, you either have the skills or you don't. DD cannot break tackles consistently and has average speed. He does seem to have good field vision and sometimes exhibits a some quickness through the hole. That is his strength.

He is probably about the 20th-25th best back in the league in terms of ability. With a team that runs first and passes second, we need to do better than that.

wags
12-21-2004, 08:42 AM
We are 1-3 when AJ goes over 100 yards receiving this year.

wags
12-21-2004, 09:09 AM
He is probably about the 20th-25th best back in the league in terms of ability. With a team that runs first and passes second, we need to do better than that.

Right now DD is ranked 15th in the league in rushing and we call passing plays 57.9% of the time. We are a passing team. That is not even close to a balanced offense. The total opposite of us in terms of run-pass would be the Steelers. They call run 56.6% of the time. The Steelers run first and pass second, not the Texans.

TheOgre
12-21-2004, 09:24 AM
Right now DD is ranked 15th in the league in rushing and we call passing plays 57.9% of the time. We are a passing team. That is not even close to a balanced offense.

Reread what I wrote: "He is probably about the 20th-25th best back in the league in terms of ability."

Fiddy
12-21-2004, 10:11 AM
We are 1-3 when AJ goes over 100 yards receiving this year.Dont forget to split up the Vikings game. In the first half of that game only Davis touched the ball and we scored 0 points. In the second half of that game, AJ got all his yards and we scored 28 points. So it is really 2-2...

And in the Packers game, AJ got 106 yards on only 6 catches while Davis touched the ball 21 times on rushing plays and 6 times on passing plays. Davis played too big of a role.

BuffSoldier
12-21-2004, 10:16 AM
1000 yard rusher.
Thats all it comes down to. With the way the O-line has been blocking this year along with the fact that we a re usuakky behind and have to pass more to get back into games. He still gets 1000 yards, every year of his NFL carrer 1000 yards so shut up and see what the GM and coaches think should be done about the running game. DD will probably be te starter at the srat of next year and if we have a better O-line I would be shocke dif he had another 1000 yard season, hmmmmmmmmmm. :hmmm:

Fiddy
12-21-2004, 10:19 AM
1000 yard rusher.
Thats all it comes down to. With the way the O-line has been blocking this year along with the fact that we a re usuakky behind and have to pass more to get back into games. He still gets 1000 yards, every year of his NFL carrer 1000 yards so shut up and see what the GM and coaches think should be done about the running game. DD will probably be te starter at the srat of next year and if we have a better O-line I would be shocke dif he had another 1000 yard season, hmmmmmmmmmm. :hmmm:There is another thread about this subject. The benchmark for a RB nowadays is 1250-1300 yards. You only have to average 62.5 yards per game to get 1000. Not a big deal...

TheOgre
12-21-2004, 10:31 AM
1000 yards became the benchmark back when teams played 12-game seasons. That comes to about 83 yards a game. To approximate that in a 16-game schedule, you need 1333 yards a season. It isn't as clean of a number as "1000" so the media still makes a big deal out of 1000 yard seasons. When Davis is routinely topping 1333 yards, then I will give him some props. I don't think he has the stamina, speed, or power to do that though.

ArlingtonTexan
12-21-2004, 10:33 AM
DomDavis is an adequaete starter in the NFL, probably best being part of RRBC committee system. I will be fine if Davis is the starting RB next year, but if there is a chance to upgrade RB position through the draft or FA then the texans should.

Fiddy
12-21-2004, 11:13 AM
DD is giving another game? Gee I thought when a pack
of ya, thought that at the titans game, that you don't
know a thing about our own backs. Boom, open a hole
and he's gone. Get it! No, big deal here. No one in the
NFL looks at the Texans and says... let Davis run the ball
so we can win the game.. Hello :hairpull:The Titans gave him that long TD so they could get the ball back...

infantrycak
12-21-2004, 11:35 AM
The Titans gave him that long TD so they could get the ball back...

Total and demonstrable BS. Fisher denied they did and if they were going to give him the TD they would have done it on 1st down, not 2nd down. Oh wait--they really were trying to let him get the TD on 1st down but DD sucks so badly he could only get 3 yards while the Titans were trying to let him score.

Hervoyel
12-21-2004, 11:47 AM
Yes, the thousand yards per year is not going to cut it. It's nice but alone it's not nearly as meaningful as it looks. Here's what I think of DD's 1,000 yards.

2003: Davis got 1031 and only started 10 games. IMO this was the work of a player who was playing at the level of a "franchise back". He isn't a burner, he's not terribly fast. He just gets positive yards. If you could take what he did and expand that over a full 16 game schedule then he'd have around 1,600 yards (gross oversimplification, I know) and that would have been a monster season. Nobody would be talking about whether or not Davis was the real thing.

2004. He's started 13 games and he's got 927 yards. He's clearly behind 2003's pace. At this rate he's going to finish with around 1100 yards with an additional 6 games where he started. That's not the kind of increase that makes me think "franchise back". Now you can factor in the dents and dings that slow Davis down, and you can of course talk about how the line hasn't got the blocking scheme down. That's absolutely been a factor this year. The net result though is that Davis didn't get it done this year.

2005. If he starts in 2005 from day one and doesn't go down with an injury then I think the guy has to top 1300-1400 yards (1500 would be preferable over 16 games) to continue to hold on to the idea that he's a franchise back and not a role player. Davis I think is an asset and a good one but he's got to produce like a franchise back before I'll be able to call him one.

Fiddy
12-21-2004, 12:20 PM
Total and demonstrable BS. Fisher denied they did and if they were going to give him the TD they would have done it on 1st down, not 2nd down. Oh wait--they really were trying to let him get the TD on 1st down but DD sucks so badly he could only get 3 yards while the Titans were trying to let him score.Capers said on his radio show that Fisher probably did give the TD to Davis so they could get a quick score and the have a chance to recover the onside kick. If the stop Davis on 2nd and 3rd down, the Titans never get the ball back and lose. Where did you hear Fisher deny it???

Doug
12-21-2004, 12:44 PM
Where did you hear Fisher admit it!? This thread is going to go on forever. This talk about empty yards and so on yet not one person has shown any proof of anything other than stats and their own personal opinion and now it looks like it's going to gossip. I understand and respect everyones opinions but I haven't seen or heard anything that makes me change mine as I'm sure everyone else feels the same. So I'm going to stop posting on this one and talk at ya'll later.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
12-21-2004, 12:50 PM
I would like to see LaMont Jordan, Najeh Davenport or Anthony Thomas as our starting RB next season. Someone that can be the workhorse back Capers is looking for.

infantrycak
12-21-2004, 01:19 PM
Where did you hear Fisher deny it???

Monday press conference by Fisher:

(on if there was any consideration to let them score in order to get the ball back in the fourth quarter)

There was consideration but not at this point. It came up in the Jacksonville game. It was a different situation obviously we were ahead and this case we were behind. There was consideration there but no. We had people out of position. We were lined up in a front coverage and just had some younger players out of position and just didnít get in the right gaps. It did give us a chance though.

They have it on the Titans' webpage but however their page works doesn't differentiate the articles to link directly to it--it is dated 11/29/04.

Fiddy
12-21-2004, 03:33 PM
So it was very bad defense, eh??? ;)

El Tejano
12-21-2004, 03:41 PM
Davis always gets caught from behind.
Yeah, but here lately they have to do it alot.

This past game though did show to me that we don't have that back that can get the real hard yards (Davis sometimes confuses me with this though because you will see him rip off a nice 15 yarder or so and get in the endzone.) Anyone else notice how our sweep never really works. You look at DDs # and all I can help but think is, man what if he was our 3rd down back and had half that productivity?

Wolf
12-21-2004, 11:56 PM
So it was very bad defense, eh??? ;)when the stars and moon all align right Davis will break one.

aj.
12-22-2004, 06:11 AM
Anyone else notice how our sweep never really works. Go back and look at the Texans third play from scrimmage against Chicago. It was a thing of beauty with Wand, Pitts, and Norris out front hammering people. Davis gained 1/4 of his rushing yards for the game on that one play.

HJam72
12-22-2004, 07:35 AM
1000 yards became the benchmark back when teams played 12-game seasons. That comes to about 83 yards a game. To approximate that in a 16-game schedule, you need 1333 yards a season. It isn't as clean of a number as "1000" so the media still makes a big deal out of 1000 yard seasons. When Davis is routinely topping 1333 yards, then I will give him some props. I don't think he has the stamina, speed, or power to do that though.

It's probably 133.3333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333 33333...

I did want to bring up something, though. Remember back to those first two games this season when DD had the 4 fumbles. I now remember saying that he was trying too hard to fight for extra yardage and not concentrating on holding onto the ball. Now, he's not getting that same extra yardage. He's not breaking tackles and putting any fear into the defenses. At least that's what some of us think, anyway. Could it be that he's STILL worrying about those first 2 games? Maybe it's a subconscience thing. I don't think this has already come up on this thread. Sorry, if it has.

On the Fisher thing. I don't care what Fisher says, I still think he gave up that touchdown. That whole defense just suddenly got shoved out of the way. It was way too beautiful. Besides, that's one of the reasons I think Fisher is such a great coach. He will try anything to win and he comes up with amazing stuff. I know that it's possible we just kicked butt on that play, but I REALLY doubt it.

ArlingtonTexan
12-22-2004, 08:35 AM
Go back and look at the Texans third play from scrimmage against Chicago. It was a thing of beauty with Wand, Pitts, and Norris out front hammering people. Davis gained 1/4 of his rushing yards for the game on that one play.

also, two key runs on that late drive were sweeps. Basically the same play twice in a row. The first one came to the right and the 2nd went to the left.

Wolf
12-22-2004, 09:10 AM
this is an old article,but it echo's what some of us think

http://www.houstonprofootball.com/slant/slant49.html

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
12-22-2004, 10:05 AM
great article

JustBonee
12-22-2004, 10:24 AM
Seems to me that after the early season fumbleitis, players are still more intent on trying to strip the ball from DD than trying to tackle him. He's making the runs now and holding unto the ball. :whew

Chawky1
12-22-2004, 11:26 AM
Hey everyone...I'm a Seahawks fan (I bleed blue) who happens to enjoy watching Texans football. I think a lot of it stems from the fact that we are almost always the 4pm game and I need something to do at 1pm, so I began casually following your team when our games don't conflict. But anyway, my two cents on your DD issue.

The biggest issue in the case of your running game is your O-line. The Seahawks have Walter Jones, Hutchinson, and Tobeck, from center to left tackle and they maul people in the running game. Fast, strong, big with a good scheme that always seems to open holes. If you put the Seahawks 2nd or 3rd Rb behind the line they will still put up excellent numbers. Are their back-ups talented? Well, yes...but I wouldn't say they have elite skills. If we had DD back there, he wouldn't be too far off from Alexander in production in my humble opinion. PLUS, DD is a much more natural pass catcher than SA, who seems to fight the ball in. Comparing the two, DD wins on heart, and SA would win (but not by much) in talent. Any and all Seahawk fans know about SA's willingness to slide at the first sign of trouble, as not to get his pretty mug messed up. They may as well put a dress on him, he ONLY runs hard inside the red zone when he knows its stat padding time. Watching DD, he simply doesnt take plays off, and appears to be a high effort guy. SA behind your line would be abysmal.

Does DD have elite skills, well no...but I don't think elite skills are needed to be an excellent RB so long as you have a great O-line (which you don't), tons of other offensive talent (you may in the future, but still young) as AJ is not a TO or Holt or Harrison as of yet plus Carr is not a Manning or Brady or Favre, or superior offensive planning (which I dont see either). DD looks to have a quick burst, excellent short range acceleration, decent power, and is a high effort guy with a lot of heart. Does he have top tier break away speed of a Portis ... no. But neither does someone like a SA who is surely regarded as at least a top five RB in this league. I think SA is comparable to DD in overall speed, but DD is much quicker. In terms of SKILLS, SA has amazing body control, elusiveness, and has the power to maul people like a Jamal Lewis, but he doesnt like contact.

IF DD had a real O-line and a high power offense he could put up SA type numbers, look at his TD and yardage totals in your offense, behind that line, with a young QB, and young wr's. In a west coast type offense with better players around him DD could be lethal. If I were your GM, I'd not look at RB at all for the next few years. Hollings has potential if he were ever healthy, and Wells does well enough as the punisher with DD the feature back. I think you guys are one year away from playoffs, assuming you take care of line issues (both sides of the ball) this offseason, and maybe 2-3 years away from a deep playoff run once all your young talent has some time to mature and gel. Oh, but in closing, I think many of you are way too hard on DD, and I think his biggest problem is your offense, and the O-line itself. You can probably also factor in his psyche from being hurt and having the fumbling issue. The best way to evaluate DD would be to think of how other "blue chip" RB's would do in YOUR offense. I doubt their results would be all that much different.

Fiddy
12-22-2004, 11:44 AM
Hey everyone...I'm a Seahawks fan (I bleed blue) who happens to enjoy watching Texans football. I think a lot of it stems from the fact that we are almost always the 4pm game and I need something to do at 1pm, so I began casually following your team when our games don't conflict. But anyway, my two cents on your DD issue.

The biggest issue in the case of your running game is your O-line. The Seahawks have Walter Jones, Hutchinson, and Tobeck, from center to left tackle and they maul people in the running game. Fast, strong, big with a good scheme that always seems to open holes. If you put the Seahawks 2nd or 3rd Rb behind the line they will still put up excellent numbers. Are their back-ups talented? Well, yes...but I wouldn't say they have elite skills. If we had DD back there, he wouldn't be too far off from Alexander in production in my humble opinion. PLUS, DD is a much more natural pass catcher than SA, who seems to fight the ball in. Comparing the two, DD wins on heart, and SA would win (but not by much) in talent. Any and all Seahawk fans know about SA's willingness to slide at the first sign of trouble, as not to get his pretty mug messed up. They may as well put a dress on him, he ONLY runs hard inside the red zone when he knows its stat padding time. Watching DD, he simply doesnt take plays off, and appears to be a high effort guy. SA behind your line would be abysmal.

Does DD have elite skills, well no...but I don't think elite skills are needed to be an excellent RB so long as you have a great O-line (which you don't), tons of other offensive talent (you may in the future, but still young) as AJ is not a TO or Holt or Harrison as of yet plus Carr is not a Manning or Brady or Favre, or superior offensive planning (which I dont see either). DD looks to have a quick burst, excellent short range acceleration, decent power, and is a high effort guy with a lot of heart. Does he have top tier break away speed of a Portis ... no. But neither does someone like a SA who is surely regarded as at least a top five RB in this league. I think SA is comparable to DD in overall speed, but DD is much quicker. In terms of SKILLS, SA has amazing body control, elusiveness, and has the power to maul people like a Jamal Lewis, but he doesnt like contact.

IF DD had a real O-line and a high power offense he could put up SA type numbers, look at his TD and yardage totals in your offense, behind that line, with a young QB, and young wr's. In a west coast type offense with better players around him DD could be lethal. If I were your GM, I'd not look at RB at all for the next few years. Hollings has potential if he were ever healthy, and Wells does well enough as the punisher with DD the feature back. I think you guys are one year away from playoffs, assuming you take care of line issues (both sides of the ball) this offseason, and maybe 2-3 years away from a deep playoff run once all your young talent has some time to mature and gel. Oh, but in closing, I think many of you are way too hard on DD, and I think his biggest problem is your offense, and the O-line itself. You can probably also factor in his psyche from being hurt and having the fumbling issue. The best way to evaluate DD would be to think of how other "blue chip" RB's would do in YOUR offense. I doubt their results would be all that much different.Shaun Alexander is going to put up a 1500 rushing yard season while averaging 4.8 yards per carry, so I really dont mind a RB sliding at the first sign of trouble when he puts up 1500 yards.

AJ - 73 receptions, 1083 yards, 18 rec. over 20 yards, 3 rec. over 40
Holt - 80 receptions, 1183 yards, 20 rec. over 20, 3 rec. over 40

AJ is in Holt's class....

On speed and being able to make things happen: Alexander has 13 runs over 20 yards, Davis has 3 runs over 20. After you get by the front 4 and front 7, it is the RBs job to make things happen. Alexander makes it happen, Davis doesnt (And there have been plenty of times where Davis has gotten pass the front four and seven but gets taken down)

On the run blocking: In the 4th game of the season, Wells had 105 yards at 4 yards a carry. And through 3 games, Davis was averaging around 2.9 or something absurd like that...

And when was the last time Alexander missed a game??? Davis cant even get through a training camp without getting injured...

Chawky1
12-22-2004, 12:07 PM
He slides when the Seahawks need him to make a play. DD always looks like he is running hard for you guys. Those long runs you mention are a product of scheme and O-line ability as much as SA's own ability. SA is NOT that great...trust me, I watch EVERY Seahawks game and have since the Sunday ticket thing started back when. He is grossly overrated, and everyone will see that when SA is on a diff team next year. He cannot, or should I say, WILL not block to protect his QB. He is an enigma....I dont feel he is in it for the money per se, but he likes attention...fame and all that. Won't block, slides, no heart, meager receiving skills, not elite RB fast.....he probably has as many drawbacks as DD, but scheme and the offense cover those up. He would be HORRID on the Texans. The worst thing about DD is lack of top end speed as I said earlier, and that is not a requirement to be a great, featured, every down back.

I think AJ is a pure talent, and has the natural ability of someone like a Moss or a TO, but until he strings together a few seasons of elite performance, then he has not arrived. I would probably grade him at a high top ten WR, but more like top 15 at this point of his career. I would put Moss, TO, Harrison, Holt and others ahead of him at this time in terms of consistent reliable production. Next year or the following I see him as top five, but not quite yet.

I will agree with you on durability...but SA pretty much goes through the motions and takes a lot of dives which is why he is never hurt. He has no heart what-so-ever, and is just not one to give it up for the team. SA gets by on purely athletics and instinct, if he actually gave half the effort that DD gives, he would have all world numbers.

Fiddy
12-22-2004, 12:26 PM
He slides when the Seahawks need him to make a play. DD always looks like he is running hard for you guys. Those long runs you mention are a product of scheme and O-line ability as much as SA's own ability. SA is NOT that great...trust me, I watch EVERY Seahawks game and have since the Sunday ticket thing started back when. He is grossly overrated, and everyone will see that when SA is on a diff team next year. He cannot, or should I say, WILL not block to protect his QB. He is an enigma....I dont feel he is in it for the money per se, but he likes attention...fame and all that. Won't block, slides, no heart, meager receiving skills, not elite RB fast.....he probably has as many drawbacks as DD, but scheme and the offense cover those up. He would be HORRID on the Texans. The worst thing about DD is lack of top end speed as I said earlier, and that is not a requirement to be a great, featured, every down back.

I think AJ is a pure talent, and has the natural ability of someone like a Moss or a TO, but until he strings together a few seasons of elite performance, then he has not arrived. I would probably grade him at a high top ten WR, but more like top 15 at this point of his career. I would put Moss, TO, Harrison, Holt and others ahead of him at this time in terms of consistent reliable production. Next year or the following I see him as top five, but not quite yet.

I will agree with you on durability...but SA pretty much goes through the motions and takes a lot of dives which is why he is never hurt. He has no heart what-so-ever, and is just not one to give it up for the team. SA gets by on purely athletics and instinct, if he actually gave half the effort that DD gives, he would have all world numbers.Fair enough, but sometimes it is better to go down on the first hit as a RB and live to play another down. LT does it more then people think. I read an article about him and he said that sometimes it is better to jump out of bounds or go down with the first hit because the RB position is the most grueling position on the field. You get hit every play, so you prolong your career by doing that. Ask Curtis Martin...

Chawky1
12-22-2004, 12:31 PM
It is much better to live to fight another day in many cases, BUT Shaun does it when we need him.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
12-22-2004, 12:35 PM
DD looks like he is running hard and in slow motion. lol

jr0ck
12-22-2004, 12:41 PM
thanks for the outsider perspective Chawky1. hopefully it will at least give alot of the houston naysayers an idea, from an unikely source might i add, of the value DD has to the texans right now. and you did a good job at reinforcing the theory that our modest running game is due to the lacking of our o-line v DD's ability as a RB...

Chawky1
12-22-2004, 12:54 PM
I didn't really want to step on any toes in here....I mean we all take our football very seriously. In my opinion, we are often more critical of our own team due to our own personal expectations and bias. I'm sure I am overly critical of my own team. And probably even moreso this year since they have taken a collective dump and will back into the playoffs only to get the boot in the first round. This is assuming that they can beat either Ariz or Atl of course.

I really do enjoy watching your team though...maybe it started out for me as the underdog thing, but you guys have some high end skill players. What has been bugging me for a long time, as I lurked here, was the DD bashing. He is no where near as bad as some people here make him out to be. I cannot stress enough how bad your O-line looks in comparison to other O-lines out there. I honestly feel DD would be a stud RB running behind the left side of the Seahawks line, or even the Chiefs, or Ravens O-line. As I said earlier, home run speed is not the end all thing for a marquee RB. No doubt it helps....look at LT or Portis, but many others have had highly productive careers with speed limitations. Someone like a Rickey Watters or Roger Craig in the past ... or someone like Edge, Deuce, or Curtis Martin now. All these successful RB's have been on winning teams with an above average to excellent O-line and good systems for the offensive personnel in the systems.

So while DD doesnt have that one golden asset, speed, I think he brings a lot of other premier back qualities to the table. Throw in some stud O-line guys, a Gonzalez/Gates/Shockey/Heap type TE, and you are good to go. I think you have pretty good WR depth, but Carr needs more time to be able to get the ball to them. Your line is the issue for both your running and your passing issues in my opinion.....alright, done rambling for a bit.

infantrycak
12-22-2004, 01:06 PM
For a perfect demonstration of the difference the OL and blocking schemes make for a RB, see:

Clinton Portis
2002 Denver 1508 yds, 5.5 ypc, 15 TD's, 11 runs over 20+ yds
2003 Denver 1591 yds, 5.5 ypc, 14 TD's, 13 runs 20+

2004 Skins 1283 yds, 3.9 ypc, 5 TD's, 5 Runs 20+

He may get to 1500 yds this year, but it is going to take a hundred extra carries to get there. And somebody going to tell us that Portis is not an explosive back? So why only 5 runs over 20+ yards?

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
12-22-2004, 01:10 PM
Teams stack the box against the Redskins in order to stop Portis. DD does not get that much respect from opposing teams.

Fiddy
12-22-2004, 01:12 PM
Teams stack the box against the Redskins in order to stop Portis. DD does not get that much respect from opposing teams.beat me to it...

jagsfanincanada
12-22-2004, 01:16 PM
Holy **** is everyone here a moderator? It seems like every post I see it's a mod posting! Is there somewhere I can sign up and be a mod? :)

Edit: you guys filter *-*-*-*!? What is this, the Romper Room? :rofl:


Just joshin guys.

Oh yeah to stay on topic, I don't think much of Davis. I think he played well last year, but has come back down to earth this year, even with your zone blocking scheme that was going to make him a 2000 yard rusher. :rolleyes:

ArlingtonTexan
12-22-2004, 01:18 PM
Holy **** is everyone here a moderator? It seems like every post I see it's a mod posting! Is there somewhere I can sign up and be a mod? :)

**** has disqualified you for the application. this is from another moderator. :neener:

and yes we are nerdy, I mean "family oriented" on this board. :lipseal

infantrycak
12-22-2004, 01:19 PM
Teams stack the box against the Redskins in order to stop Portis. DD does not get that much respect from opposing teams.

That completely misses the point which was the affect blocking schemes have on RB's which is well demonstrated by the results of the same RB (who in his 3rd year should be peaking) in two different systems. Are you going to argue teams didn't stack against him in Denver when he was gashing them for even more yardage?

As for stacking the box against the Texans--whether opposing teams do that or not doesn't add anything to the DD vs. the OL, who is more responsible, debate because to a D coordinator it doesn't matter what is causing a running attack to be poor--bad OL or bad RB or both--it just means they don't have to stack to stop it and can concentrate on the biggest threat--AJ.

Chawky1
12-22-2004, 01:26 PM
As for stacking the box against the Texans--whether opposing teams do that or not doesn't add anything to the DD vs. the OL, who is more responsible, debate because to a D coordinator it doesn't matter what is causing a running attack to be poor--bad OL or bad RB or both--it just means they don't have to stack to stop it and can concentrate on the biggest threat--AJ.

There you have it. Thats exactly what I was getting at in my usual long winded way. The problem is the OOOOOOOOOOO - LINE....and secondarily, the offense itself.

jr0ck
12-22-2004, 04:15 PM
one thing that jumped out at me was in this stat line

2004 Skins 1283 yds, 3.9 ypc, 5 TD's, 5 Runs 20+

every person who thinks we desperately need an upgrade at RB would gladly take portis over DD. yes, better avg this year, more yards, and has the invaluable "home run speed" that we, again, desperately need. well, believe it or not, there is one area DD trumps portis in. a stat that could easily be argued as the most important (maybe a close second behind apc)....touchdowns!!!

if the arguement for empty yards was made with DD and portis in mind, i would be a hardpressed to think that DD's yards are "empty" relative to a "bigger threat" back that has higher yds, apc and # of 20+ runs but fewer scores. if scoring doesn't fill the "void" of empty yards, i don't know what does.......

i think what it comes down to is DD is doing his job adeqautely enough to not be questioned. with the other more pressing needs of this team, it's very unfair to blame all of the teams offensive shortcomings on a player who is playing succesfully (if anything, relative to many of his teamates).

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
12-22-2004, 04:20 PM
The question of this thread is "Can Domanick Davis be our feature back?"

Yes, he can be as he has been the past 2 seasons.

Should he be? No, not if we want to become legitimate playoff contenders.

jacquescas
12-22-2004, 06:20 PM
Davis has opened his career with 2 1,000 yard seasons, very few running backs have done that. He has potential to be our feature back, and will allow us to not be forced to draft at that position until later in the draft.

In a couple years if we need to we can use an early pick for a back, but for now we are set.

Hervoyel
12-22-2004, 08:50 PM
Our team can become a legitimate playoff contender with Davis as it's feature back. New England hasn't exactly had the "dream backfield" in it's two Super Bowl runs and you can count the number of teams who had a feature back but didn't make it to the Super Bowl. It's a very long list. Likewise you can sit there all day and talk about superstar QB's who don't have a title. The formula for being a legit playoff team doesn't require the addition of a superstar back. A competent one will do and Davis is more than competent.

If the Texans will get their pass protection act together then Davis is plenty of weapon out of the backfield. The problem we're experiencing right now is a result of teams knowing that Domanick Davis isn't going to beat you all by himself AND knowing that David Carr isn't going to get enough time to beat you. The passing game has to get better for the Texans to be able to use a mid to upper-mid range back like Davis and beat people. It's not an impossiblity though. It's not even all that uncommon.

All I'm saying is that the Davis question isn't a black and white, this or that type of issue. Knowing what Davis "is" and accepting that doesn't mean you can't win with him or that you deny that the Texans can be succesfull with him as the starter. The Patriots won two Super Bowls with what I consider to be upper-mid range running backs. They had other weapons to compensate and yeah, when they got a chance to nab a real running threat in Corey Dillon they grabbed him. The Texans may very well do that. Until then Davis can be the back and do well.

Grid
12-22-2004, 09:02 PM
A better line still may not answer the durability problems though.


However I agree that the Oline is the biggest hurdle for Davis. He has the skills, just doesnt get the opportunity. Will be interesting to see if we stick with Zone blocking and if we are better at it next season, or if we go back to the old way and see if Davis can repeat his rookie year.

infantrycak
12-22-2004, 10:03 PM
Our team can become a legitimate playoff contender with Davis as it's feature back. New England hasn't exactly had the "dream backfield" in it's two Super Bowl runs and you can count the number of teams who had a feature back but didn't make it to the Super Bowl. It's a very long list. Likewise you can sit there all day and talk about superstar QB's who don't have a title. The formula for being a legit playoff team doesn't require the addition of a superstar back. A competent one will do and Davis is more than competent...

All I can say is this may be the wisest post ever. Durability is the biggest question mark on DD for me--of course Fragile Fred had a problem with that he seemed to get over as well. If DD had repetitive problems with the same area I would worry more, but right now it is broken hand, cracked rib, tweaked thigh, twisted ankle, i.e. playing football. In the meantime C, LB, TE, DT, CB strike me as higher priorities. I don't mind if the Texans use their 1st round pick on a RB (cough, Ronnie Brown, cough) but other drafts may produce better results next year.

Herdof
12-22-2004, 10:26 PM
Ugh. Can we PLEASE turn off the "Ronnie Brown is God" hype machine.

infantrycak
12-22-2004, 10:50 PM
Ugh. Can we PLEASE turn off the "Ronnie Brown is God" hype machine.

Do you have some actual feedback on him? At this point, the reason he is intriguing to me is size (better than Benson or Williams), speed (better than Benson or Williams) and ability to catch out of the back field (better than Benson or Williams) and likely to be available without moving up in the draft. What is your review of him?

LSU_MPA
12-22-2004, 11:17 PM
When healthy, Davis is a great RB. He can run and catch passes out of the backfield.

Chawky1
12-22-2004, 11:45 PM
A better line still may not answer the durability problems though.


However I agree that the Oline is the biggest hurdle for Davis. He has the skills, just doesnt get the opportunity. Will be interesting to see if we stick with Zone blocking and if we are better at it next season, or if we go back to the old way and see if Davis can repeat his rookie year.

If DD is making it into the secondary with improved O-line play, you'd have to think he would have physics on his side then. Better to get smacked by, and then have fall on you a guy who is 220lbs than someone who is 340lbs....maybe that could help with durability.

Herdof
12-23-2004, 12:27 AM
Do you have some actual feedback on him? At this point, the reason he is intriguing to me is size (better than Benson or Williams), speed (better than Benson or Williams) and ability to catch out of the back field (better than Benson or Williams) and likely to be available without moving up in the draft. What is your review of him?

I think that Ronnie is a very good prospect off his physical measurables alone. I've watched Auburn from the bushes a couple times and I like what I've seen. Something gives me a feeling that he's kind of a faster Stephen Jackson from last years draft. I'm just getting an odd feeling, though. I'm just not completely sold on him like a lot people (More like 80/20 in favor of him). I'm not ready to consider him as the savior of our offense/team if we draft him, or so gun-ho to quit on Domanick Davis as a feature back either.

Get me? It's not like I'm saying that's he's a bad prospect. Quite the contrary. I believe that he has a very bright outlook, but with the rate that I keep hearing his name around Texans boards I could swear that he's a bonafide can't-miss stud a la LaDainian Tomlinson.

If his stock DOES happen to get so high through workouts and combine, he'll be gone way off the board. It wouldn't be the end of the world anyway. This is a good and underrated running back class. If we decided to go on to draft an RB, we can find a couple of more than good RBs first day. Ciatrick Fason, for example, can be found in the second round. I have a feeling that RB's are going to slide again. It's like most teams already have their young backs. I think four or five teams at most are in real need of a running back.

I STILL am on the ideology that Dom Davis is having a sophmore slump with being nicked up and all that plus the offensive line's inconsistency. He's still going to pick up 1500+ total yards, screw the "empty yards" nonsense, so he's not as bad as everyone is making him out to be - its a helluva production for a 4th rounder who was expecting to be a kick returner and "change of pace" back. I think he can be very good with a solid and consistent offensive line.

Just my .02 cents - Director's Cut.

Wolf
12-23-2004, 02:57 AM
i disagree with the "sophmore slump". we have seen all that DD can do. Teams know that he can't hurt them. AJ can hurt them, so they concentrate on AJ. DD gets his yards and then when we get into the red zone and the defense has a shorten field to work with, they then stack the line and pound DD. Simple.And with our offense, moving down the field is a chore,given the fact that we have a habit of getting penalties on us.

Wolf
12-23-2004, 03:01 AM
Teams aren't afffaid if DD handles the ball ,say, 36 times , but if LT or Priest Holmesd did..the defense would be in trouble..

someone answerr me why a defense wouldn't be in trouble?

Grid
12-23-2004, 05:03 AM
after reading through this thread.. I think I am of the opinion that the problem isnt DD.. but the oline. The reason that the defense doesnt have to stack the box against us is because our Oline doesnt require them to. The opposing dline has been able to run over our Oline and that has made it hard for DD to really break through.

If we had a better Oline.. then not stacking the box against DD would lead to DD making 7-15 yard runs.. which would force them to stack the box to keep him in check, which would lead to AJ getting open.

DD has the skills.. if the Oline would give him holes then he would become a factor. As things are.. the defense doesnt have to worry to much about it cause DD isnt given the CHANCE to break big runs.

and maybe a better oline WOULD fix some of his durability problems.. since he wouldnt be getting creamed by Dlinemen quite so much.

HJam72
12-23-2004, 07:32 AM
I'm not so sure it's the O-line's fault either. I mean, it could be the D-line's fault . Every time our D-line has more than usual trouble getting to the QB, then DD gets fewer yards that day. In Chicago, they got to the QB, and DD had almost 100 yds. Furthermore, everytime Foreman has covered a wide-out it has hurt DDs chances of having a big game. I think most of the blame for DDs problems has been Jay Foreman's fault. It's definitely on the D. They can't stop the 3rd down conversions.

But you know, it could be referees, the announcers, Capers, Palmer, Fangio, the media, or even Fiddy and me. We hurt his feelings and he couldn't overcome it. It could be that he took too much speed before the game or not enough. They have to get it just right, you know. But I'm convinced that part of it is the way that while he's running he keeps his head pointed in the direction of the cheerleaders. I don't think he knows where he is.

Grid
12-23-2004, 07:39 AM
oh bleh.. every position on the field impacts every other position in one way or another. Some more than others.

the Oline has had a HUGE effect on not only DDs production, but the WRs production as well. if ya cant agree with that, then you just aint paying attention.

HJam72
12-23-2004, 07:41 AM
Huh? What was that?

HJam72
12-23-2004, 07:43 AM
oh bleh.. every position on the field impacts every other position in one way or another. Some more than others.

the Oline has had a HUGE effect on not only DDs production, but the WRs production as well. if ya cant agree with that, then you just aint paying attention.

I wasn't really trying to be sarcastic, though I know it looks that way. I just can't resist making stupid comments sometimes. The O-line is a big problem. I know.

infantrycak
12-23-2004, 08:40 AM
we have seen all that DD can do. Teams know that he can't hurt them. AJ can hurt them, so they concentrate on AJ. DD gets his yards and then when we get into the red zone and the defense has a shorten field to work with, they then stack the line and pound DD. Simple.

Simple--yes. Correct--no.

Domanick Davis 11 TD's--actually 12, he has one receiving as well.
Andre Johnson 5 TD's.

Seems DD has been hurting teams where it counts (the scoreboard) in his horrible, needs to be benched, let's put Wells in season more than twice as much as pro-bowler AJ. But then, I guess those were empty TD's, right?

[disclaimer--not a smack on AJ--he is great and deserved the pro-bowl]

Herdof
12-23-2004, 08:47 AM
Simple--yes. Correct--no.

Domanick Davis 11 TD's.
Andre Johnson 5 TD's.

Seems DD has been hurting teams where it counts (the scoreboard) in his horrible, needs to be benched, let's put Wells in season more than twice as much as pro-bowler AJ.



:thumbup

Good point.

Fiddy
12-23-2004, 10:13 AM
Simple--yes. Correct--no.

Domanick Davis 11 TD's.
Andre Johnson 5 TD's.

Seems DD has been hurting teams where it counts (the scoreboard) in his horrible, needs to be benched, let's put Wells in season more than twice as much as pro-bowler AJ. But then, I guess those were empty TD's, right?

[disclaimer--not a smack on AJ--he is great and deserved the pro-bowl]Thats almost like saying Greg Jones and Fred Taylor have the same number of TDs so Jones is more productive because he has done it in less carries.


Davis' TDs -
vs. San Diego
2 yard TD run
1 yard TD run
vs. Minnesota
1 yard TD run
vs. Denver
1 yard TD run
1 yard TD run
vs. Indy
1 yard TD run
1 yard TD run
vs. GB
6 yard TD catch
vs. Tenn
41 yard TD run
vs. NYJ
2 yard TD run
vs. Indy
15 yard TD run
vs Chi
11 yard TD run

So he has 8 TD runs of 2 yards of less, for some reason I think that if you put Wells in the backfield on those, we would still get the TDs.

We could try to inflate AJs TDs number by throwing him fade routes in the endzone, but running it with Davis is the smartest way. Someone has to score from the one, and the coaches chose Davis to take those duties...

infantrycak
12-23-2004, 10:50 AM
Thats almost like saying Greg Jones and Fred Taylor have the same number of TDs so Jones is more productive because he has done it in less carries.


Try looking back at the quote I was responding to that asserted teams stack the box once we get into the endzone and "pound Davis." Spin it how you want--that pounding evidently isn't the same as stopping Davis. And it isn't a question of "inflating" DD's TD's--getting into the endzone in short yardage situations is the job of a RB. Franchise back that he is, there is a reason the Jags pull Taylor and formerly put in Mack and now Jones--he doesn't get it done on those oh so easy 2 yd runs you cavalierly say could easily achieved by Wells. Maybe that makes Taylor's 1200+ yds so far "empty yards"--nah, his name isn't Davis.

By the way, Taylor and Jones combined have 4, count them 4 TD's.

TexansTrueFan
12-23-2004, 12:38 PM
Davis is the man, just face it! some of yall cant admit you were wrong ! And if i'm not mistaken TDs are what wins games and D.D gets those for us !

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
12-23-2004, 12:59 PM
DD is average at best as a feature back.

Fiddy
12-23-2004, 05:39 PM
Maybe that makes Taylor's 1200+ yds so far "empty yards"--nah, his name isn't Davis.Both Davis and Taylor have had 9 games where they have touched the ball 20 times, the Jags are 5-4 when Taylor has 20 or more touches, the Texans are 2-7 when Davis has 20 or more touches this season...

Chawky1
12-23-2004, 07:25 PM
Both Davis and Taylor have had 9 games where they have touched the ball 20 times, the Jags are 5-4 when Taylor has 20 or more touches, the Texans are 2-7 when Davis has 20 or more touches this season...

Come on, what do you expect here. You have a very young team with a terrible O-line, which is hurting DD as well as Carr and the Wr's. Plus your D is as bad as my Seahawks, if not worse. I don't have the stats on who is in fact worse statistically, but I think we are both in the same boat. Football is a team game, and your team has a lot of young talent, as well as a lot of holes such as O-line and D-line.

Herdof
12-23-2004, 08:32 PM
Come on, what do you expect here. You have a very young team with a terrible O-line, which is hurting DD as well as Carr and the Wr's. Plus your D is as bad as my Seahawks, if not worse. I don't have the stats on who is in fact worse statistically, but I think we are both in the same boat. Football is a team game, and your team has a lot of young talent, as well as a lot of holes such as O-line and D-line.
Plus Fred Taylor is a top-tier back. Vastly underrated.

infantrycak
12-23-2004, 09:46 PM
Both Davis and Taylor have had 9 games where they have touched the ball 20 times, the Jags are 5-4 when Taylor has 20 or more touches, the Texans are 2-7 when Davis has 20 or more touches this season...

So the obvious conclusion for you to draw is DD sucks vs. what many people might say in light of the fact that the Jags have a better record, which is they are a better team at this point. What are you trying to say now anyway--it isn't empty yards anymore, it is empty touches?--stick to an argument. By the way, the Chiefs were 11-2 when Holmes touched the ball 20 or more times last season whereas the Chargers were 4-9 when LT touched the ball 20 or more times. This year, the Chiefs were 4-4 when Holmes touched the ball 20 or more times and the Chargeres are 10-3 when LT touched the ball 20 or more times. So does that mean Holmes ruled last year and LT sucked or that this year LT rules and Holmes sucks? No, it means your example above means diddly squat for judging a RB.

You do realize there is a huge area in between elite RB and sucks RB that must be trashed whenever his name comes up--don't you?

And by the way did you notice the comment about Taylor and Jones having a combined 4 TD's? That would be one-third of DD's TD's. And before you say, but yeah he sets up the passing game, the Jags have just 3 more passing TD's than the Texans, so let's add those in--Taylor/Jones/improved passing game 7 vs. DD 12. But no, the difference between the Texans' record and the Jags' must be that DD sucks and Taylor rules, not that the Jags DT's are 2 of the best 10 in the league or that their OL gives up half as many sacks and run blocks better, or that Carr gets vapor lock of the cranial cavity whenever he sees a cover 2 scheme, etc.--nah, never mind--it is all DD's fault.

Fiddy
12-23-2004, 11:16 PM
When did I ever say Davis sucks and when did I ever say Taylor rules???

All I was pointing out with that stat was that production is measured in just more that TDs. You almost made it out that since Davis had more TDs than AJ, Davis has been more productive. Davis didnt drive 80 yards to set up his own TDs. On his recieving one, AJ got tripped up at the 5 and Davis caught the short pass after that. Davis has done a great job of getting the ball in from short distances. But does that make you a franchise back??? No.

As good as their record is, the Jags are 3 plays away from having about the same record as us so I think the teams are pretty even.

I am going to leave this thread now because it is going around in a circle and is getting really drawn out. And I seriously start to get headaches when I come back to this thread. I will also try to refrain from talking about Davis being or not being our franchise back for awhile. But before I do leave, I will say this because people will rat on me when we dont draft a back in this year's daft: Davis may be our back going into next year and I wont be surprised because I dont think we will have a high enough pick to snatch Ronnie Brown (at least me and Cak agree on Brown), Williams, or Benson...

Wolf
12-23-2004, 11:22 PM
yall made good points

let me ask this..If you had AJ at WR and LT at RB... how many points (on average would you think we would score?

now being we have AJ at WR and DD at RB.. we already know how many points we score..

(not getting into a carr - brees debate)

the difference is LT can go paydirt from anywhere on the field at any time.. DD can't
Not knocking DD..he just doesn't have the speed.

Wolf
12-23-2004, 11:27 PM
When did I ever say Davis sucks and when did I ever say Taylor rules???

All I was pointing out with that stat was that production is measured in just more that TDs. You almost made it out that since Davis had more TDs than AJ, Davis has been more productive. Davis didnt drive 80 yards to set up his own TDs. On his recieving one, AJ got tripped up at the 5 and Davis caught the short pass after that. Davis has done a great job of getting the ball in from short distances. But does that make you a franchise back??? No.

As good as their record is, the Jags are 3 plays away from having about the same record as us so I think the teams are pretty even.

I am going to leave this thread now because it is going around in a circle and is getting really drawn out. And I seriously start to get headaches when I come back to this thread. I will also try to refrain from talking about Davis being or not being our franchise back for awhile. But before I do leave, I will say this because people will rat on me when we dont draft a back in this year's daft: Davis may be our back going into next year and I wont be surprised because I dont think we will have a high enough pick to snatch Ronnie Brown (at least me and Cak agree on Brown), Williams, or Benson...


I agree. I just find it funny that people say the OL didn't block when DD has a bad game and when he has a good game we all jump on the franchise RB bandwagon(hey, our OL blocked well).I think our main points are that \he doesn't break one open when he gets into the open field. That separates the franchise backs from the solid backs.

Wolf
12-23-2004, 11:35 PM
one another thread, I wanted to see who people thought where the top 15 Rb's in the league... 2 people but DD at 14 and others didn't name him in the list..
so even with him named.. that is middle of the pack in terms of RB.. I think of franchise backs as at least in the top 10
http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?t=5313

I am not saying these people are all knowing or anything, I just wanted to do a different spin on the argument in here.

infantrycak
12-24-2004, 09:47 AM
Davis may be our back going into next year and I wont be surprised because I dont think we will have a high enough pick to snatch Ronnie Brown (at least me and Cak agree on Brown), Williams, or Benson...

We should start a thread over in the draft forum after the last two games and keep track of all the players that won't be available when we pick--if it is anything like last year, 45 players will be nominated for 15 spots. I will be surprised if all three of those RB's get takin in the top half of the 1st round, but it certainly could happen.

infantrycak
12-24-2004, 10:00 AM
yall made good points

let me ask this..If you had AJ at WR and LT at RB... how many points (on average would you think we would score?

now being we have AJ at WR and DD at RB.. we already know how many points we score..

(not getting into a carr - brees debate)

the difference is LT can go paydirt from anywhere on the field at any time.. DD can't
Not knocking DD..he just doesn't have the speed.

Well if you would replace LT in your question with Portis, you see what I was trying to get at with showing the dramatic drop off in Portis' production in Washington vs. Denver. Portis has the speed to go paydirt from anywhere on the field at any time but it isn't happening anymore.

2002 5.5 ypc 15 TD's 11 runs over 20 yds
2003 5.5 ypc 14 TD's 13 runs over 20 yds
2004 3.9 ypc 5 TD's 5 runs over 20 yds

So noone would argue Portis wasn't a franchise back and wasn't explosive in Denver--did he stop being a franchise back in Washington and isn't explosive anymore? Nope, the team around him ain't getting it done.

As for the argument that maybe Portis is getting them in position to score more so it just isn't in his stats:

2003 Washington 17.9 points per game
2004 Washington 14.9 points per game

And no, the point of this isn't that DD is as good as Portis, it is simply that all the running game ills of a team cannot be fairly laid at the feet of the RB. JMO, DD ain't elite, but he is holding the running game back less than the OL at this point.

Chawky1
12-26-2004, 01:59 PM
Can't you guys just cut him already and go with Wells or Hollings??? ;) ;)

Hervoyel
12-26-2004, 03:16 PM
30 carries, 150 yards, a long run of 44, and a touchdown today. He did it against the number 9 rushing defense in the NFL. The difference between the 9th ranked and 1st ranked rushing defenses is about 20 yards a game so I think it's safe to assume that Jacksonville has a "good" rushing defense.

What more does he have to do? Davis isn't fast. He's never going to be fast. He gets it done differently by running hard, breaking tackles, and squirting through the tiny holes our line gives him at times. He's got good hands and can catch the ball out of the backfield. When he gets into the open field he rips one off. Jacksonville didn't give him either of his two long runs today as some have said Tennessee did a few weeks ago.

Davis is a franchise back. The only real question I have left about Davis is whether or not he can stay healthy for a full season. Aside from that he ranks among those I consider "franchise backs". Is the the best franchise back? I don't think so but he is one of them.

Vinny
12-26-2004, 03:17 PM
30 carries, 150 yards, a long run of 44, and a touchdown today. He did it against the number 9 rushing defense in the NFL. The difference between the 9th ranked and 1st ranked rushing defenses is about 20 yards a game so I think it's safe to assume that Jacksonville has a "good" rushing defense.

What more does he have to do? Stay on the field, and produce when nicked up. The season is too short to only produce in parts of it. That's one of the biggest reasons that he is not a franchise back.

wags
12-26-2004, 03:18 PM
Can't you guys just cut him already and go with Wells or Hollings??? ;) ;)

He does suck. 30 carries and 150 yards. I swear if we gave him the ball one more time we probably would have lost. :jk:

Grid
12-26-2004, 03:19 PM
I agree with you Herv. Get that boy some better blocking and that will improve not only his rushing ability.. but his durability. He could definatly be our guy if we get him some more help at the line of scrimmage.

Maybe we should be thinking of how to improve our blocking.. instead of getting us a big back than can force his way past a bad block.

TexansFan.com
12-26-2004, 03:20 PM
Anyone still questioning Domanick Davis as our main back next year?
What a great day for D. Davis! Congrats to him for such an outstanding performance.

AndreJ
12-26-2004, 03:23 PM
instead of getting us a big back than can force his way past a bad block.

As Far as that goes, I like how Wells came out and ran over people to run down the clock. We don't have any Star RB's but lately they have been getting the job done. I'm happy

wags
12-26-2004, 03:25 PM
Stay on the field, and produce when nicked up. The season is too short to only produce in parts of it. That's one of the biggest reasons that he is not a franchise back.

You must not consider fragile Fred Taylor a franchise back then.

rittenhouserobz
12-26-2004, 03:25 PM
I agree with you Herv. Get that boy some better blocking and that will improve not only his rushing ability.. but his durability. He could definatly be our guy if we get him some more help at the line of scrimmage.

Maybe we should be thinking of how to improve our blocking.. instead of getting us a big back than can force his way past a bad block.

I would like a little of both. A slightly larger RB and a little better blocking. Improving just one area would not be the best solution.

Fiddy
12-26-2004, 03:26 PM
He was boom or bust today...
minus the 38 and 44 yards run - Davis averaged 2.4 yards per carry...

And I would think that with those two long runs, he would average more than 5 yards per carry...

Fiddy
12-26-2004, 03:28 PM
You must not consider fragile Fred Taylor a franchise back then.His streak of 46 consecutive starts ended today...46

Grid
12-26-2004, 03:29 PM
well thats cause A: they were, what? the #2 rushing D? and B: he doesnt get the blocks he needs most of the time.

When he got good blocks, and broke free into the secondary.. he could shed those LBs and DBs like they were nothing.

Hervoyel
12-26-2004, 03:31 PM
Take away the big runs from a majority of the backs people consider "franchise" and you get the same thing. On many of those small runs Davis was met in the backfield. Not many franchise backs look like one when they're met in the backfield by the defense.

And yes Wags, Fred isn't a franchise back by that definition. He's a glorified third down back

AndreJ
12-26-2004, 03:32 PM
Take away the big runs from a majority of the backs people consider "franchise" and you get the same thing. On many of those small runs Davis was met in the backfield. Not many franchise backs look like one when they're met in the backfield by the defense.


Thank You for not making me type that!. I didn't feel like getting into with anyone after a great win today.

wags
12-26-2004, 03:33 PM
His streak of 46 consecutive starts ended today...46

He missed 24 games his first four years. That is why he is Fragile Fred. How many carries did he have against us this year? Answer three. When he gets nicked he can't even play.

Vinny
12-26-2004, 03:34 PM
Who cares about his skill level if he can't stay on the field and play?46 consecutive starts for Fred.

I'm not going to argue with the homer-vision stuff. If you think Dom is as good as Taylor then Rock on.

Fiddy
12-26-2004, 03:34 PM
He missed 24 games his first four years. That is why he is Fragile Fred. How many carries did he have against us this year? Answer three. When he gets nicked he can't even play.When Davis gets nicked up and plays, aka the Chiefs game, he averages 1.2 yards per carry...

Hervoyel
12-26-2004, 03:35 PM
His streak of 46 consecutive starts ended today...46

Starts. In between how many times did Fred get nicked up and have to go sit down? If the guy can't play 60 minutes of football for you 16 times a year then he ain't a franchise back.

Vinny
12-26-2004, 03:37 PM
Starts. In between how many times did Fred get nicked up and have to go sit down? If the guy can't play 60 minutes of football for you 16 times a year then he ain't a franchise back.Fred can really be explosive when nicked up. Dom doesn't run well with minor injuries. Dom isn't even close to the Talent Taylor is.

AndreJ
12-26-2004, 03:37 PM
Good Lord the man had 150 yards today and avg. 5.0yds a carry not to mention his 39 recieving yards. Just please lay off his back for just this one week. Please I'm beggin you. 1 week, giv em' a break.

Fiddy
12-26-2004, 03:37 PM
Starts. In between how many times did Fred get nicked up and have to go sit down? If the guy can't play 60 minutes of football for you 16 times a year then he ain't a franchise back.Ok, so he didnt play when he got nicked up but during that time he still rushed for 4110 yards...

edo783
12-26-2004, 03:37 PM
Take away the long runs from any backs performance and the result wont look very good. First ya want someone that breaks big runs and then when he does ya want to take them away and not count them. Very interesting.

Hervoyel
12-26-2004, 03:38 PM
When Davis gets nicked up and plays, aka the Chiefs game, he averages 1.2 yards per carry...

Which tells me that we need an option besides Davis. When Fred gets nicked up and can't play (cause he's not a franchise back and can't do that) then the Jags have someone else who can come in and carry the ball. When the Texans are in that situation with Davis (who's obviously not a franchise back either because he can't play well when nicked up) they bring in even more injury proned Tony Hollings and Jonathan Wells who...oh wait Wells got his hundred when he came in against the Raiders.

Fiddy
12-26-2004, 03:39 PM
Take away the long runs from any backs performance and the result wont look very good. First ya want someone that breaks big runs and then when he does ya want to take them away and not count them. Very interesting.I loved the longs runs, I was jumping up and down but after each long run he followed it up by getting stuffed for a 1 yard gain or no gain...

Hervoyel
12-26-2004, 03:40 PM
Fred can really be explosive when nicked up. Dom doesn't run well with minor injuries. Dom isn't even close to the Talent Taylor is.

I never said he was. I said Davis was a franchise back. I never said Davis was the best franchise back out there. I would even accept that he's in the lower end of that range but I think of all the guys playing right now who get the label or just do the job of "franchise back" Davis belongs.

Hervoyel
12-26-2004, 03:41 PM
Ahhh. meh. We won. I'm happy and I like DD just fine. That's all I care about right now.

rittenhouserobz
12-26-2004, 03:42 PM
Starts. In between how many times did Fred get nicked up and have to go sit down? If the guy can't play 60 minutes of football for you 16 times a year then he ain't a franchise back.

If I think about it every RB gets a few plays off, thus meaning they did not play 60 minutes. By your definition a RB can never be a franchise back. Personally I would like to have a guy like Jamal Lewis. A big Bruiser that DBs hate to encounter.

AndreJ
12-26-2004, 03:43 PM
If I think about it every RB gets a few plays off, thus meaning they did not play 60 minutes. By your definition a RB can never be a franchise back. Personally I would like to have a guy like Jamal Lewis. A big Bruiser that DBs hate to encounter.

Who wouldn't?!? Any team in the league would take him with the exception of his problems outside of football.

Fiddy
12-26-2004, 03:45 PM
Which tells me that we need an option besides Davis.Ronnie Brown...

Hervoyel
12-26-2004, 04:37 PM
If I think about it every RB gets a few plays off, thus meaning they did not play 60 minutes. By your definition a RB can never be a franchise back. Personally I would like to have a guy like Jamal Lewis. A big Bruiser that DBs hate to encounter.


A few plays off isn't what I'm talking about. I'm talking about getting nicked up (as non-franchise back type players like Domanick Davis and Fred Taylor are wont to do) and having to come out of the game like Taylor did against us earlier this year with his wimpy little hip pointer injury. He started that game and he may even have played the one after that but just because it was one of his "46 straight starts" doesn't mean he's an iron man now or anything.

He got banged up and he was done for the day. "Fragile", not "Franchise".

fresno8
12-26-2004, 05:13 PM
DD is starting to grow on me. I was highly critical of him early, but he has been showing some elusiveness, power and determination and is always good out of the backfield. He's healthy too. I'm still not 100% sold, but he at least seems capable of some pretty good things for years to come if he runs like he has the last few weeks. He's also has done it against a good run D in Jax and not a bad one in Chicago.

BuffSoldier
12-26-2004, 06:22 PM
I loved the longs runs, I was jumping up and down but after each long run he followed it up by getting stuffed for a 1 yard gain or no gain...


Well when you have Stroud and Henderson in the middle, alot of your runs will go for 1 or less yards. Did you see DD just simply run one yard and sit down, no DD ran with authority the whole game, but when your O-line cant play with the same aggresion, then you end up having 1 yard plays, and negative plays. I dont care who see had in the backfield, we could have had Jim Orenthall Sanders(mix of Jim Brown OJ and Barry Sanders) but when you have 2 or 3 out of the 4 D-lineman in the backfield directly after the hand off, you have no choice but to lay it down. :hairpull:

infantrycak
12-26-2004, 07:17 PM
I loved the longs runs, I was jumping up and down but after each long run he followed it up by getting stuffed for a 1 yard gain or no gain...

It is comments like this that make anything of merit you might say about DD look like the ravings of an irrational DD hater. Sure, DD must suck because the OL olays on some plays and lets him get hit at or behind the line of scrimmage--yeah that is good analysis. And Barry Sanders sucked because he had more stuffs than any RB of his time--yah sure.

(disclaimer for the analogy impaired--no I am not saying DD is Barry Sanders)

Fiddy
12-26-2004, 07:28 PM
still dont see where I put "Davis sucks"...

What I am trying to understand is when Davis has a bad day it is all because of the O-line. But when he has a good run, its all because of Davis and not one thing is said about the O-line. On Davis' 40 yard run, Wand or Wade was 20 yards downfield blocking. Davis can only do what the O-line can do...but he did break a lot of arm tackles today

Hervoyel
12-26-2004, 08:02 PM
That's why I'm friggin desperate to see the line start playing well consistently Fiddy. Because until they're something like a constant it's hard to tell how much of a real threat Davis is. Right now the line is IMO still suspect. They still aren't executing well on a regular basis and it's tough to tell whether the 1-2 yard carries are on Davis or on them. Every back is going to have some of those but right now and for the majority of this season Davis has had more than he should have.

2005 is I think when we maybe get a definitive answer on this. I am going into 2005 thinking of Davis the way I thought of him coming into this year. In 2003 he impressed me and I was looking forward to seeing him play in his second year in this system. Then the run blocking scheme changed and he got off to that awful start with the fumbles.

2005 is going to be his (and the Texans) second year running this blocking scheme. I want to see what comes of Davis in 2005.

infantrycak
12-26-2004, 08:04 PM
still dont see where I put "Davis sucks"...

I have never asserted you literally said that but it is the glaring inference from the negative spins you put on everything DD does.

What I am trying to understand is when Davis has a bad day it is all because of the O-line. But when he has a good run, its all because of Davis and not one thing is said about the O-line. On Davis' 40 yard run, Wand or Wade was 20 yards downfield blocking. Davis can only do what the O-line can do...but he did break a lot of arm tackles today

Clearly you aren't refering to me here as IMO the OL & RB must both be working to see the full potential of each. Yes the OL should get credit when they block well (that would be called doing their job well) and if you look around the league, most of the time when you see a top 10 RB, you see a pretty good OL. On the other hand, when the RB gets hit two yards deep in the back field it is pretty silly to act like it is the RB's fault.

Fiddy
12-26-2004, 08:15 PM
I have never asserted you literally said that but it is the glaring inference from the negative spins you put on everything DD does.I dont think he sucks. He has two 1,000 yard seasons. He doesnt suck but I believe there can be an upgrade at that position that would greatly benefit the team...Clearly you aren't refering to me here as IMO the OL & RB must both be working to see the full potential of each. Yes the OL should get credit when they block well (that would be called doing their job well) and if you look around the league, most of the time when you see a top 10 RB, you see a pretty good OL. On the other hand, when the RB gets hit two yards deep in the back field it is pretty silly to act like it is the RB's fault.I understand your point there, but those top 10 backs in league do get hit in the backfield sometimes and when they do, they can turn the broken play into a good play. I never said it was Davis' fault but I would like him to make something out of nothing every now and then...



And in the 3rd quarter, I think it was the 3rd, Carr play actioned to Davis when Stroud or Henderson was in the back field and which ever one it was, didnt even make a motion towards Davis. And that was after he had his two biggest runs...

infantrycak
12-26-2004, 08:18 PM
I understand your point there, but those top 10 backs in league do get hit in the backfield sometimes and when they do, they can turn the broken play into a good play. I never said it was Davis' fault but I would like him to make something out of nothing every now and then...

You mean like today when DD got hit at the line or one yard back and turned it into a 9 yd gain?

Anyway, let's just both hope that the OL comes together next year so we can see the full potential of DD or whomever we have at RB next year--and of David Carr for that matter.

Fiddy
12-26-2004, 08:24 PM
You mean like today when DD got hit at the line or one yard back and turned it into a 9 yd gain?Yeah, I would really like to see more of that because he didnt do that when he was averaging 2 yards a carry...
Anyway, let's just both hope that the OL comes together next year so we can see the full potential of DD or whomever we have at RB next year--and of David Carr for that matter.Agreed, and I dont see us upgrading the position unless we get Ronnie Brown, Cadillac Williams or Ced Benson in the draft...

brickmantexanfan
12-26-2004, 08:41 PM
Gee,I wonder how many of you are just on the wagon off the wagon fans of DD,and also how many of you pushed for him to be Rookie of the year last year,you will see in time that he is a good choice for the Texans,you know somtimes players have bad years,just like coaches and everyday workers,maybe he is not a priest holmes,then again maybe he just hasn't been in the league long enough to get that edge,but I know, this last year he was awesome,and there has to be a reason why he hasn't given us that same performance as last year,what ever the prob is I still believe he will show what he is about in the future.



Just incase you missed this post last week,I noticed a change in a few of our on the wagon off the wagon fans.Once again the man did not make rookie of the year last year for no reason. :jumpbanan

aj.
12-26-2004, 08:47 PM
Really nice to see the top thread on the board is people complaining after our first shutout ever.

HJam72
12-26-2004, 09:39 PM
Really nice to see the top thread on the board is people complaining after our first shutout ever.

150 yds. on the ground, several long runs, more receiving yardage, broken tackles, and we win 21-0 on the road against a good team. Nope, you won't hear me complaining about DD for quite a while. I may be done. We'll see next year.

Beastlyman2003
12-26-2004, 10:11 PM
funny. i dont hear anymore of that bull**** from fiddy about "giveaway yards or whatever he called it. WE WON THE GAME BECAUSE OF DD. true the PUSSYCATS got the goose egg, but it was set up because our defense was fresh because we had double the time of posession with domanick controlling the ground and the clock. He could have had 200 rush yards if the would have let him stay in instead of J wells

Fiddy
12-26-2004, 10:14 PM
funny. i dont hear anymore of that bull**** from fiddy about "giveaway yards or whatever he called it.Because they werent "empty," Davis worked hard for his yards today...

But you would think that after rushing for a 40 yarder and a 38 yarder, a play fake would slow down the d-lineman for a second but they still pinned their ears back...

infantrycak
12-26-2004, 10:15 PM
Yeah, I would really like to see more of that because he didnt do that when he was averaging 2 yards a carry...

See now that is one of those "the Texans always run, run, pass" comments that doesn't bear up to reality and makes you look like a DD hater.

Agreed, and I dont see us upgrading the position unless we get Ronnie Brown, Cadillac Williams or Ced Benson in the draft...

This has to be the nicest thing you have ever said about DD (you probably didn't mean it that way)--so a 4th round surprise won't be upgraded unless the Texans get one of three players all of whom are expected to go in the 1st round, maybe even in the top half of the 1st round. You have almost convinced me, maybe he is serviceable.

ArlingtonTexan
12-26-2004, 10:17 PM
Really nice to see the top thread on the board is people complaining after our first shutout ever.

I am tempted to lock this thread on general principle, but someone will start some other DD thread.

Fiddy
12-26-2004, 10:23 PM
See now that is one of those "the Texans always run, run, pass" comments that doesn't bear up to reality and makes you look like a DD hater.Could you please elaborate on that because I really am not following...
This has to be the nicest thing you have ever said about DD (you probably didn't mean it that way)--so a 4th round surprise won't be upgraded unless the Texans get one of three players all of whom are expected to go in the 1st round, maybe even in the top half of the 1st round. You have almost convinced me, maybe he is serviceable.Yeah, he has 2,000 rushing yards in his career. Unless I get a game breaker, I am willing to sit with Davis for another year because he is not spectacular, but he is consistent...

infantrycak
12-26-2004, 10:39 PM
Could you please elaborate on that because I really am not following...

Let me put it this way--last year people were all over Hollings for having a such a bad average against the Jags. You and I both pointed out that when the RB gets hit 5 times in a row in for a loss it is the responsibility of the OL. Try applying the same thing to DD--actually look at the runs and not just the stats--point out a run of under 3 yds today where it was DD's fault rather than the OL's. More importantly, even if you can come up with one, really look at the short runs and say they are more the result of DD missing opportunities than mistakes by the OL.

Fiddy
12-26-2004, 10:55 PM
Out of Davis' 30 carries, 20 of those carries resulted in 3 yards or less. I have a hard time buying that all 20 carries that resulted for 3 yards or less were all on the O-line. And thats what I am saying about Davis taking some of those broken plays and getting 4 or 5 yards, thats what I feel franchise backs are suppose to do...

infantrycak
12-26-2004, 11:03 PM
Out of Davis' 30 carries, 20 of those carries resulted in 3 yards or less. I have a hard time buying that all 20 carries that resulted for 3 yards or less were all on the O-line. And thats what I am saying about Davis taking some of those broken plays and getting 4 or 5 yards, thats what I feel franchise backs are suppose to do...

Well not exactly responsive to my request for specific plays, but there isn't a RB in the league that doesn't have a majority of 3 yard or less runs--they average 3 or less on their normal runs and then break off longer runs (you know those ones DD can't make except for those two today) that up their average.

Chawky1
12-27-2004, 07:48 AM
DD looked really impressive considering the D he was up against, and also factoring in how Carr really didn't do much to help him out. He hit the hole hard, very rarely went down on first contact and looked quite shifty and elusive. Once you guys get all the other pieces in place, there is your franchise back. I was looking at some stats...DD is on pace for about roughly 1150 yards on the ground this year. If you factor in the 1 game he missed completely, and another 2 games (possibly 3 games) where he tried to play through injury you are probably looking at a 1500 yard back on the GROUND and who knows how much more through the air. And thats behind a less than stellar O-line. Considering COMBINED yardage, this little guy is a machine. You have bigger fish to fry before RB, I say stock up on O-line and then on other D positions in the offseason. Give this O another year to gel, and allow Carr to mature with his weapons. DD, Wells, and Hollings should be more than adequate for another year as you fill positions of more pressing need. If DD can't stay healthy, or a RBBC approach doesn't work next year, reevaluate then, and look for another franchise back option.

Some interesting numbers:
Only Priest, Alexander, and Tomlinson have more rushing TD's than DD.

DD has a longest run of 44 yards, that is the SAME as Alexander (44yds) & Corey Dillon (44yds), and BETTER than E. James (40yds), Curtis Martin (25yds), Tomlinson (42 yds), McGahee (41 yds), Bettis (29 yds), Duece McAllister (28yds), Priest Holmes (33 yds), Smith (29 yds), Staley (38 yds), and Faulk (40 yds). This is running behind an O-line that has to be in the bottom 10, maybe even bottom 5 in the league, and with a young, still erratic QB.

TheOgre
12-27-2004, 09:05 AM
Look at what has happened to the Bills now that they replaced Henry (a decent starting back) with McGahee (a future stud). I kind of equate DD to Henry. A nice back but not a stud. If we are going to run first and pass second, I would like to see a stud. Just look at what the change has meant to the Bills.

JaylonW
12-27-2004, 12:56 PM
The only thing wrong with DD is his durability. He has been hurt in his first two seasons. NOW...if he can prove to me he can stay healthy, I am more than satisfied with his ability. I read all this stuff about Edgerrin James, Ahman Green...etc...etc...Jamal Lewis...blah blah blah....THINK PEOPLE...if there were a Jamal Lewis for EVERY NFL team available, they would all have ONE!!!!!!!!!!!....

I think the Texans have a pretty good fix of from the Best of the REST. He just needs to stay healty.

- Davis Does break tackles!!!!!!!! you don't have to believe it...but he does...

- Not Tony Dorsett Speed...(But who is) He has proven to be able to break the long run and have adequate speed.

- Excellent goaline BACK....(Such and underated ability)

- Had to adjust to DIFFERENT blocking schemes his first two years...
The Line had to adjust as well.....

- I read one comment on hear that said everytime he breaks a long run, the BLOCK is what did it..... DUH!!! about 99% of long runs are like that...Don't kid yourselves. the key is reading the block, and hitting the hole fast enough.

- The Texans NEED TO THROW THE BALL MORE....when and IF THEY DO...DD will be even more effective with less carries. We have the offensive players to run a more wide open offense...eventhough the play calling suggest we are the Baltimore Ravens....If we had Jamal Lewis...I would be happier with the offensive scheme. But we dont....and we do have AJ! We need to utilize the pass more...which will FURTHER make DD a good fit for the texans!


AGAIN I SAY....If he can stay healthy for a minimum 13 games...I am COOL WITH HIM! And pay attention peeps....Running Backs are getting INJURED ALL OVER THE LEAGUE....Stop living in a BUBBLE called HOUSTON....

Duce Staley, Westbrook, Ahman Green, Travis Henry, All of Minnesota's Backs, All the Bronco Backs, Priest Holmes, Fred Taylor,
The Browns' backs, Chris Brown, Stephen Davis, DeShon Foster, Duece McCallister.....etc....ALL HAVE MISSED SEVERAL GAMES this YEAR ALONE...from injury.....No WORSE than Little Ole Double D! They are NFL running backs...! They absolutely are the most INJURY PRONE profession in the world....SO.....

LIGHTEN UP ON DD....

If you don't like him...say so...but don't make up lame excuses like Tony Hollins would serve us better....or he's not strong enough...or he catches too short of passes..LOL


GO HOUSTON...GO DOMINIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TRAILERPARKBOYS
12-27-2004, 01:50 PM
Hey TheOgre - did I just read you correctly... you said you would like to see a stud at running back..... ummm you have one in Double D buddy.... DD has 1600 yards from scrimmage this year - what more do you want? The guy is a stud and it is mindboggling to me that so many on this board rip into the guy and hack em up.... Davis is one of the most underrated backs in the league and is easily top 10 in the NFL..... and too go along with his impressive stats the guy has 13 TD's - once again top 10 in the entire league.... Davis is the real deal - the total package and along with Andre Johnson and D.Robinson is the foundation of the team..... against Cleveland next week Davis will end the year with a bang with another TD and 100 plus rushing yards.... congrats on an excellent season Domanick - keep it up and run wild against the Browns next weekend.

I'M OUT....
BUBBLES

TexansTrueFan
12-27-2004, 04:40 PM
fiddy wasnt it you that was arguing with me when that guy asked if it was a good idea to bet a 100$ that D.D would get a TD, and what did i say ??? He would have a 125+ and you said theres no way he would get that with henderson and stroud on the jags D. Glad to see i was right ! I tried finding the posts and couldnt, but i'm glad to see your not beign near as critical about D.D !

TheOgre
12-27-2004, 04:51 PM
The guy is a stud and it is mindboggling to me that so many on this board rip into the guy and hack em up.... Davis is one of the most underrated backs in the league and is easily top 10 in the NFL.

He is definitely not a top 10 back. You could probably argue a top 20, but no way a top 10.

Fiddy
12-27-2004, 05:05 PM
fiddy wasnt it you that was arguing with me when that guy asked if it was a good idea to bet a 100$ that D.D would get a TD, and what did i say ??? He would have a 125+ and you said theres no way he would get that with henderson and stroud on the jags D. Glad to see i was right ! I tried finding the posts and couldnt, but i'm glad to see your not beign near as critical about D.D !
http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?t=5384

Maybe I missed it, but you never said 125+. You said two TDs. He got 1. And I never said he had no chance, I said the odds were against him. Like all odds were against us shuting them out...

Fiddy
12-27-2004, 05:11 PM
Davis is one of the most underrated backs in the league and is easily top 10 in the NFLIn no order:
Jamal Lewis
Priest Holmes
Curtis Martin
LT
Ahman Green
Duece McAllister
Tiki Barber
Cory Dillion
Clinton Portis (remember, it is on the o-line) and if you dont like him in, put McGahee
Shaun Alexander

I am with TheOgre because I still havent named Edge, Westbrook, Rudi Johnson, Kevin Jones, Julius Jones, and Taylor

infantrycak
12-27-2004, 05:24 PM
In no order:

Duece McAllister


DD is not a top 10 back at this point. Looking at just this year though, McAllister (who was one of my favorite backs going into the year) has not played top 10 and in fact is in a dead heat with DD for performance this year.

Deuce McAllister 241 attempts 934 yds 3.9 ypc 28 long 8 TD's 4 20+ 49 1st downs
Domanick Davis 284 attempts 1077 yds 3.8 ypc 44 long 12 TD's 5 20+ 50 1st downs

Fiddy
12-27-2004, 05:25 PM
DD is not a top 10 back at this point. Looking at just this year though, McAllister (who was one of my favorite backs going into the year) has not played top 10 and in fact is in a dead heat with DD for performance this year.

Deuce McAllister 241 attempts 934 yds 3.9 ypc 28 long 8 TD's 4 20+ 49 1st downs
Domanick Davis 284 attempts 1077 yds 3.8 ypc 44 long 12 TD's 5 20+ 50 1st downsYeah, he had that deep ankle sprain early that has slowed him down and playing on the Saints doesnt help, either...

infantrycak
12-27-2004, 05:27 PM
Yeah, he had that deep ankle sprain early that has slowed him down and playing on the Saints doesnt help, either...

Thanks for walking into my web said the spider to the fly. Try this statement on for size--yeah, he had that ankle sprain early that has slowed him down and playing on the Texans doesn't help, either...

And yes I think McAllister is a better RB than DD.

Fiddy
12-27-2004, 05:39 PM
Thanks for walking into my web said the spider to the fly. Try this statement on for size--yeah, he had that ankle sprain early that has slowed him down and playing on the Texans doesn't help, either...Yeah, but Davis' injury lingered for half the season and I doubt it was as serve as a deep ankle sprain (may of been, I honestly dont know). McAllister came back 2 weeks after his injury and averaged 4.9 and 4.3 his first two weeks back. I would have to ask someone that watches the Saints to know what happened to him after that. And when you have 9 consecutive 100 yard games in a season, you can have one bad season...

Sco-tai
12-27-2004, 05:52 PM
Someone posted a comparison saying DD isn't Priest Holmes...so I dug into the numbers...and I'd say that if DD can remain healthy he should prove to be of the same caliber, or better.

In DD's first 2 seasons (with 1 game to go)... 3,202 (rushing & receiving) with 4.325 yards per carry.
In Priest's first 4 seasons 2,687 (rushing & receiving) with 4.579 yards per carry behind an O-line that had been together for a while.

I wouldn't pass on Cedric Benson, but since that's a non-point, I'd say we're fine on the RB depth chart. Obviously we'll bring in some FA's to create competition, but we should be fine for 2005.

TRAILERPARKBOYS
12-27-2004, 06:08 PM
Fiddy has named alot of top running backs on his list on the previous page but I disagree with a few:
Ahman Green this year has been a bust - nowhere close to DD.
Clinton Portis - your basing this one on reputation... this year he has been a huge disappointment in washinton.
Deuce McAllister - fewer TD's than DD and fewer total yards
Julius Jones - a one game wonder - has only played 6 games.
Kevin Jones - is this years version of DD - similar stats to DD's rookie year.
Rudi Johnson - we all have our opinions but too me I would take DD anyday of the week. DD is way more multi-dimensional than Rudi - Rudi has hands of stone.

I'm not sayin DD is the second coming of Walter Payton BUT he is definately a solid starter in this league and a back that can get you 1700 yards from scrimmage in a season can play on my team any day of the week.

Bubbles

Fiddy
12-27-2004, 06:19 PM
Fiddy has named alot of top running backs on his list on the previous page but I disagree with a few:
Ahman Green this year has been a bust - nowhere close to DD.
Clinton Portis - your basing this one on reputation... this year he has been a huge disappointment in washinton.
Deuce McAllister - fewer TD's than DD and fewer total yards
Julius Jones - a one game wonder - has only played 6 games.
Kevin Jones - is this years version of DD - similar stats to DD's rookie year.
Rudi Johnson - we all have our opinions but too me I would take DD anyday of the week. DD is way more multi-dimensional than Rudi - Rudi has hands of stone.

I'm not sayin DD is the second coming of Walter Payton BUT he is definately a solid starter in this league and a back that can get you 1700 yards from scrimmage in a season can play on my team any day of the week.

BubblesYou have to take in other seasons when debating the top 10 RBs in the league.

Ahman Green: I didnt know a 1400 total yards season was a bust. And this after rushing for almost 1900 the year before...
Portis: No O-line (lost their best to injuries) and Gibbs is running a stone age offense, he has reasons
Rudi Johnson: Has 1355 rushing yards
Deuce McAllister: Had 9 straight games last season with 100 yards
Kevin Jones: has 196, 100 and 156 yard games and is averaging 4.8 yards a carry
Julius Jones: carried the ball 63 times in a matter of 4 days and then a week later, exploded for 198 yards and 3 TDs including the game winner but you can make a case right now that Davis should be rated higher then Jones, but niether is top 10...

texasguy346
12-27-2004, 06:30 PM
Rudi Johnson: Has 1355 rushing yards


I know this doesn't involve me, but I think you need to factor in the OLine that Rudi runs behind. The Bengals don't get much credit for how good their OLine is. Levi Jones, Steinbach, Braham, Anderson. Not too bad, and most of them are high round draft picks. I think DD could be more productive than Rudi behind the Bengals OLine, but then we'd open up an endless What If debate. I think it will be interesting to see how Chris Perry does behind the Bengals OLine next season.

ledzeppelin229
12-27-2004, 06:48 PM
Ive liked Ronnie Brown as well, but there's no reason to use a 1st rounder on a RB. If the right guy is there on the 2nd day, or MAYBE the 3rd round, pull the trigger since RB depth in a run-first offense is always important (preferably a big guy that can knock guys over, though Wells tries hard and has shown improvement so we will see) but a young DE, CB or ILB is much more important than a first day RB to me at this point.

Speaking of Wells, he looked pretty good on his small sample of runs against the Jags. Seems to keep his feet moving much better than he used to and isn't as afraid to take a shot to get the extra yard. I think we need to re-evaluate the guy and throw out everything he tried to do in 2002, because a rookie RB behind that line and an abysmal passing game is always going to look ugly. Not to mention half the runs(hell half the plays in general) were the infamous "Draw" play.

HJam72
12-27-2004, 07:41 PM
Speaking of Wells, he looked pretty good on his small sample of runs against the Jags. Seems to keep his feet moving much better than he used to and isn't as afraid to take a shot to get the extra yard. I think we need to re-evaluate the guy and throw out everything he tried to do in 2002, because a rookie RB behind that line and an abysmal passing game is always going to look ugly. Not to mention half the runs(hell half the plays in general) were the infamous "Draw" play.

To me, Wells looked faster than I've ever seen him yesterday, but I need to see Wells do that in a game when DD is actually struggling. They both looked good today, so changes are just unnecessary.

ledzeppelin229
12-27-2004, 07:58 PM
DD was hit-or-miss Sunday. Stroud and Henderson dominate the middle of the line, and I know on the first long run the Jags overloaded the Olines right side and when Davis went to the Olines left, it meant no LBers were around and once Davis got past Darius + a little downfield blocking the Jags were doomed for a long run.

Other than that it was like hurling himself into a brick wall over and over hoping it gives a little more each time. There was no room to run when the Jags guessed right and we saw the result when they guessed wrong.

snoopmeg2002
12-28-2004, 09:48 PM
This is just for miscellaneous information. Does anyone know DD's full ethnic background. Is he mixed with something else besides African-American heritage?

HJam72
12-29-2004, 08:30 AM
This is just for miscellaneous information. Does anyone know DD's full ethnic background. Is he mixed with something else besides African-American heritage?

Yes, Albino and Japanese--oh, and a little pygmie. Hope this isn't too racial or anything. Just havin' fun.

infantrycak
12-29-2004, 08:55 AM
Yes, Albino and Japanese--oh, and a little pygmie. Hope this isn't too racial or anything. Just havin' fun.

If you are going to do that, at least be considerate--that would be pigmentally challenged, Japanese and Native American of Ordinary Height in a world full of vertically augmented people..

snoopmeg2002
12-29-2004, 10:48 PM
So does he really have Japanese and Albino heritage in him, or is this a joke? And, what in the world is pygmie?

thunderkyss
04-21-2006, 10:13 AM
I wish I could find that article about empty yards that John Clayton wrote on ESPN.com. I will. You can think its stupid but it worked for the Colts. They didnt want AJ/Gaff/Bradford to touch the ball so they allowed Davis to get the ball virtually every play because they knew Davis couldnt kill them and AJ could. Have any of you guys ever noticed that Davis is always open in the flat??? If defenses were really scared of him, wouldnt they tell a LB to cover him??? They dont tell LBs to cover him because they want Davis to get the ball. The passing game was shut down because the Colts focused on the WRs and didnt worry about Davis. And when Davis accounts for 50% of the offense, we lose.



My defenition of a frachise back is someone who can last most of the season and doesnt always have nagging injurys. A franchise back also has to be someone who can get the tough yards and make something out of nothing. Has to be able to run over people and run past people.


This is the best argument I've seen against DD yet....

Kudos Fiddy.....
The most important stat is touchdowns. When Dom gets his huge yardage figures off of dump passes, they have worth, but exactly what is that worth when you are not scoring TD's? Dom has 55 receptions and 1 TD. Next, compare that to a running back that puts fear in an opposing defense when he catches a dump off pass. Brian Westbrook gives the Eagles offense incredible diversity and puts real fear in opposing defenses. Westbrook has 65 receptions and 6 TD's so far. Westbrook is a pure threat. He can beat you with a simple dump off pass on a given play. This reception stat line isn't "empty" for Westbrook because he makes teams pay. Dom's 55 touches with one TD does not strike any fear in enemy defenses over the course of a season (two more games and its over this year).


I don't know about that....... if other teams are just going to give up first downs, and let us into the RedZone, then we should work on our Redzone percentages.

There are many Runningbacks that are used to get their teams to the goalline, and he is switced out for a TD specialist...... There is nothing wrong with that approach either......... but if you're telling me Defenses don't worry about Running backs who move the ball, but don't score... then we've got the perfect back that will allow us to sneak up on teams & kill the clock.... if we could only learn to score in the redzone.
All things being considered, Davis will start his career with consecutive 1000 yard seasons. Its about as good as a start you could ask for from a 4th round pick.

No, he is not an edgarin James or a Ricky Williams, but he has an extremely promising start to his career. With better blocking up front, and getting over that fumbling problem he should be even better next year.

At least he is fine for the next season, no draft picks or high draft picks need to be invested in the RB position.
......... but after 3 of such seasons....... as good as Edgerin James, better than Ricky Williams...... we need to invest a high pick in a RB?? :ok:
Funny that you should say that after the Chicago game--where there was a play that DD got smooth hit by two guys at the line of scrimmage due to poor blocking and made it into a 6-7 yard gain purely on individual effort. He ain't a top tier RB, but there is no need to make stuff up about him.

And PS--there is a lot of distance between pro-bowl RB and 3rd down back. DD is somewhere in between--just dumb to act like he is at either extreme.

DD is a hardworking Blue Collar guy....... after reading this thread, I can see where some folks are coming from........ but before I sign off on DDs death warrant, I'd like to see sooo much more from Reggie..

I understand we can't go into the season with 2 running backs.....
but most of the time he is tackled by the first defender to lay a hand on him.I've never seen that.

When the Texans have a back who can get yardage when the other team knows the Texans are going to run, that is when the Texans will be a dangerous team.

That's a function of the OL.... they have to move the line of scrimmage...
get out of my head BornOrange!

I was just thinking the same thing.


about the gameplaning.. someone on this thread posted about Davis getting "empty yards" (200 and something). that basically proved the theory of defenses not gameplanning to stop Davis and just to stop AJ. What I remember is even with Davis getting the yards. Aj isn't getting the ball because teams still roll 2 players on AJ. I don't know the stats, but seems our offense suffers when Davis gets the load. I am not knocking DD, but seems our offense goes one dimentional.

and when DD has those games, I don't recall teams stacking the line or bringing a safety up just to stop the run.
At the same time, if the Defense would keep the game close, they wouldn't "let" anyone get 201 yards.
Have you not read one word I have typed in previous posts??? The reason the pass protection sucks is because teams are pinning there ear backs and rushing game. If Davis gets the ball, big deal. The defense will get him. One play that I keep pointing to was during the last Colts game. Davis had a couple of good runs but on 1st and 10 when Carr was in the shotgun and play faked to Davis, Freeney (who had already got by Wand) didnt even flinch at that play fake. He went right after Carr, and oh my goodness. Carr was the one with the ball. Freeney didnt even make an attempt at Carr. If that is LT or some other game breaking back, you better believe Freeney honors the play fake...

So on this play, and any other 1st down run, DD ought to be able to pick up the first down, keep the play alive, March us into the RedZone, score us a touchdown. This particular Colts game we lost by 8 points...... I see what you're saying, but I don't think it is that simple.

More along the lines, that you don't even have to sack our QB...... just pressure him, and he'll either take a sack, make a sack, or make a mistake..

If what you are saying is correct, then Stacey Mack, James Allen, & Jonathan Wells would've been racking up the same yardage DD is getting..... heck, DD would still be on the Bench......
I dont know what you have been watching, but Davis always gets caught from behind. Even the Bus has a couple of 20 yards run. Lets not get caught up in that. Every back in the league will get a couple of those each year.

We need a back that can break multiple tackles because Capers wants to pound the ball for 4-5 yards a carry and then play action fake deep. We cant do that with Davis. There are multiple defenders around our RB because it is impossible to block everyone. There is always people around Priest, LT, and Jamal Lewis but they find ways to get around, by, and threw them.

But DD has average 4-5 Yards/carry....... for three years running.

Yesterday on his 11 yd TD run he flat out ran over R.W. McQuarters and dragged him into the endzone with R.W. hanging on to his leg. If i recall correctly he did the same thing in houston against Idianaplois on his TD run leaving a trail of defenders in his pass (Please don't make me go find any pictures). What more can the guy do this season he has 972 rushing yards and is leading the AFC running back with 515 recieving yards (1442 yards total)! Their are WR's who wish they could have the many yards recieving. Oh and not to mention his 12 TD's on the season. Who cares if he is moving the ball by running or passing a 12 yd pass is no different the a 12 yard run. The leading running back in the league (Curtis Martin) has 1690 total yards (179 passing) and 14 TD's. DD is only trailing Curtis by 248 yards and 2 TD's, who is to say he isn't getting the job done and that Defenses don't plan for him in their attack when he accounts for damn near 50% of the texans offense. And dont come back and give me that BS (empty yards excuse).


P.S As far as DD getting empty yards and nott putting points on the board, he ties Tiki Barber with 11 Rushing TD's and thats 6th in the NFL. Once again he's doing his job and it aint his fault the taxans have been losing. :hmmm:

Great post......... we need AndreJ to get back in here
Yes clinton portis hasn't done jack **** this year i said it. Sure he has 1283 yards, but he also has the most carries in the league (333 carries) and is only avg. 3.9 yards a carry where as his previous two years he avg. 5.5. He also only has 225 passing yards. 225+1283=1508. I think that is what maybe 50 yards more than Davis has had this year not to mention he has missed a few games.

Anyways enough of Portis, what Davis lacks in the running game he makes up in the passing game. For the record, all RB's cannot catch the ball (Jamal Lewis) I have also seen Sean. Alexander drop many passes. Something we never see DD do. Just so you know DD acounts for 50% of our offense in all our games, not just the gm's we lose. And for the last time stop placing the blame on DD for losing the games, by saying when he has 50% of our offense we lose because he always has 50% of our offense. It is not his fault and football is a TEAM sport. It aint like tennis or golf in case you haven't noticed. :hmmm:

Damn, and i said this was gonna be sweet and short.

Ouch......... another good one.


:read:

Davis accounted for 0% of the offense in the Oakland win...
Davis accounted for 9% of the offense in the Chiefs win...
Davis accounted for 7% of the offense in the Titans road win...
Davis accounted for 26% of the offense in the Jags win...
Davis accounted for 48% of the offense in the Titans home win...
Davis accounted for 37% of the offense in the Bears win...

Davis accounted for all the offense in the first half of the Vikings game and we got 0 points, Davis accounted for little offense in the second half of the Vikings game and we scored 28 points...

So what were you saying???
So you're saying Carr can pass on the worst teams in the league, but not the ones with decent Defenses.....

Frank_The_Tank
04-21-2006, 10:27 AM
Man the Bush-Bandwagon is Psychotic. Man they rip and Bash on everyone, they are worse than the Young Bandwagon. man the draft cant come quick enough.

Runner
04-21-2006, 10:31 AM
Man the Bush-Bandwagon is Psychotic. Man they rip and Bash on everyone, they are worse than the Young Bandwagon. man the draft cant come quick enough.

Note that year old threads are being brought up to argue against from today's perspective. The fact that the posts are old isn't mentioned so I thought I'd point that out, in case anyone misses it.

thunderkyss
04-21-2006, 10:50 AM
well for one.. for where we got him and what we got him for.. he has been much better than expected. However, that doesnt make him the franchise back.

two, while the 3 year thing may apply to alot of draft picks, with RBs i think you generally expect results out of them pretty quick.. they do not have long careers. That doesnt mean they dont continue to improve and that by waiting on one you can end up with a good back later.. but its not usually the case with RBs.. from my limited experience anyway.

three, Edge doesnt get empty yards.. they are not covering the receivers and letting edge run because he isnt a big threat.. they are covering the receivers because manning is a BIGGER threat. And if you look at the numbers edge has put up with his "empty yards".. and compare them to DDs numbers.. you will notice that DD is not in Edge's league.

Honestly though.. I think DD COULD be our franchise back.. he as the skills to be one.. the only problem is durability. So far he has shown that he just doesnt have it.
three years, total yards…….. Marshall 4372 three years, total yards…….. James 5297
Three years, total yards…….. Domanick 4471



Rushing yards
Marshall 1282yds/yr1 1079yds/yr2 587yds/yr3 total: 2948
Domanick 1031yds/yr1 1188yds/yr2 976yds/yr3 total: 3195
James 1553yds 1709yds 662yds total: 3924

Avg YPC:
Marshall 4.1 yr1 3.7 yr2 3.0 yr3 avg: 4.0
Domanick 4.3 yr1 3.9 yr2 4.2 yr3 avg: 4.1
James 4.2yr1 4.4yr2 4.4 yr3 avg: 4.3

Longest run:
Marshall: 52 yrds 40 yrds 43 yrds
Domanick: 51yrds 44yrds 44yrds
James: 72yrds 30yrds 29yrds

TDs:
Marshall: 11 11 7 total 29
Domanick: 8 13 2 total 23
James: 13 13 3 total 29


20+ yrd runs...
in his first 3 years, Marshall had 19 runs over 20 yrds, James had 23, Domanick had 13

Recieving you say??
three years...
Marshall: 1425 yards, with only two reception going for more than 40 yards.
Domanick: 1276 yards with no receptions going for more than 40yards.
James: 1373 yards with 3 receptions of more than 40 yards.

Before this season, I've heard people compare Domonick Davis to Emmitt Smith, and Marshall Faulk. The only real knock on him, is that he's missed a few games.


games played:
Marshall 16 yr1 16 yr2 13 yr3 45 total
Domanick 14 yr1 15 yr2 11 yr3 40 total
James 16yr1 16yr2 6 yr 3 38 total
Domanick only missed 5 more games than Marshall did his first three years. He has more rushing yards, 150 yards less recieving.
He's played 2 games more than Edgerin James.


Ronnie Brown.. 15games
RushingYards: 907 on 207 carries(13.8/game) 4 for touchdowns, 5 longer than 20 yards, and 41 first downs......
Recieving yards: 232 on 32 catches(2.1/game)....... 7.3avg..... 1 TD, 12 Firstdowns....
That's 1139 total yards.... on 15.9 touches/game.(4.7 yards/touch)



Ladainian Tomlinson 16games, started
Rushing Yards: 1236 on 339 carries(21/game).. 10 TDs, 7 runs over 20, 67 First downs....
Recieving yards: 367 on 59(3/game) catches, 6.2 avg........ 0 TDs....... 12 FDs
That's 1603 total yards from scrimmage. on 24 touches/game.(4.2yards/touch)


DD 14 games......... 10 started
Rushing Yards: 1031 on 238 carries(17/game).... 8 TDs...5 runs over 20, 47 first downs....
Recieving Yards: 351 on 47 catches(3.35/game).... 7.5avg..... 0 TDs..... 15 first downs.
That's 1382 total yards from scrimmage, on 20 touches/game.(4.9 yards/touch)

IF you had a guy who had a better rookie year than one of those two, and came up 221yards shy of the best Running back to come out of college in the last decade(110.5 yards per game, 14 vs 16) when LT started all 16 games, would you still draft Reggie Bush??

thunderkyss
04-21-2006, 11:09 AM
I originally did a search, trying to find good posts about DD from way back, See if I can get the DD bandwagon rolling again. Instead I've found..... more of the same.... People have been wanting to "upgrade" the position from way back.

Still, I've noticed most comparisons...... DD isn't like Edge.... DD isn't like Faulk.... DD isn't like so-and-so, usually compare DD to people who've been in the league more than three years..... or to people who are coming off a particularly good year.

I don't think those are fair comparisons, even though DD isn't exactly like this player, or that player, he's been just as productive as most, if not all of the "franchise" backs we take for granted nowadays.

I was surprised to see that Edgerin James bested DD in both rushing & passing yards, while playing 2 less games than Domanick. I doubt, however, that their are many more examples of such.

Thanks to Fiddy's arguments, I can see a little better, where many of you guys are coming from.... that DD is allowed to pick up his little bit.... Defenses aren't scared of him scoring...... I don't buy it, but I understand it. If DD can get our team into the RedZone, and we can't score with a ProBowl reciever, and a 1000 yard RB......... then we've got other problems. more serious still, than Runnig back. Much of which has been addressed, with a TE who can be split out, and a FB that can catch the ball.

I'll be upset(like that matters) if we draft Reggie, and end up loosing DD in 2 years....

I look at it like this..... if we are going to say we can win a SuperBowl with David Carr, therefore we don't need Vince Young....... we should look at DD the same way.

Can we win a SuperBowl with Dommanick Davis?? I think so, therefore, we don't need Reggie.

MasterC25
04-21-2006, 11:31 AM
I originally did a search, trying to find good posts about DD from way back, See if I can get the DD bandwagon rolling again. Instead I've found..... more of the same.... People have been wanting to "upgrade" the position from way back.

Still, I've noticed most comparisons...... DD isn't like Edge.... DD isn't like Faulk.... DD isn't like so-and-so, usually compare DD to people who've been in the league more than three years..... or to people who are coming off a particularly good year.

I don't think those are fair comparisons, even though DD isn't exactly like this player, or that player, he's been just as productive as most, if not all of the "franchise" backs we take for granted nowadays.

I was surprised to see that Edgerin James bested DD in both rushing & passing yards, while playing 2 less games than Domanick. I doubt, however, that their are many more examples of such.

Thanks to Fiddy's arguments, I can see a little better, where many of you guys are coming from.... that DD is allowed to pick up his little bit.... Defenses aren't scared of him scoring...... I don't buy it, but I understand it. If DD can get our team into the RedZone, and we can't score with a ProBowl reciever, and a 1000 yard RB......... then we've got other problems. more serious still, than Runnig back. Much of which has been addressed, with a TE who can be split out, and a FB that can catch the ball.

I'll be upset(like that matters) if we draft Reggie, and end up loosing DD in 2 years....

I look at it like this..... if we are going to say we can win a SuperBowl with David Carr, therefore we don't need Vince Young....... we should look at DD the same way.

Can we win a SuperBowl with Dommanick Davis?? I think so, therefore, we don't need Reggie.

Reggie is a bigger upgrade to DD, then Vince is to Carr. Vince shouldn't even play for two years.

thunderkyss
04-21-2006, 11:39 AM
Reggie is a bigger upgrade to DD, then Vince is to Carr. Vince shouldn't even play for two years.

Anyone expecting Reggie to get 1600yrds rushing, 400 yards recieving his rookie year??

I don't.

I expect DD to get that with Kubiak......

IMHO, drafting Reggie, reducing DDs role, is going to hurt our running game more than help it...

While I don't expect any designed QB runs, I expect Vince to double Carr's rushing TDs the first year he plays, and match if not exceed his passing TDs..

DominickDavisFan76
04-21-2006, 01:14 PM
Dominick Davis is a good back, but when it all happens and we draft reggie, he should go back to a 3rd down back, and let reggie take over.

chuckm
04-21-2006, 01:20 PM
Anyone expecting Reggie to get 1600yrds rushing, 400 yards recieving his rookie year??

long shot but I believe that 1200 rushing, 500 receiving is realistic

IMHO, drafting Reggie, reducing DDs role, is going to hurt our running game more than help it...

No doubt about that ... but will the sum of Bush's yards + DD's yards be greater than DD's yards alone (assuming Bush isn't drafted)?


While I don't expect any designed QB runs, I expect Vince to double Carr's rushing TDs the first year he plays, and match if not exceed his passing TDs..

Dunno but we'll worry about that towards the end of this decade

ArlingtonTexan
04-21-2006, 01:23 PM
The problem with the exercise is that the Texans don't think of it as an argument of Bush versus DomDavis. They think of it as Bush plus DomDavis versus improving the team in some other aspect. Casserly has said numerous times in numerous ways that the Texans believe that Bush is 12-15 touch per game guy what can score on any play. That is what they value from Bush not his ability (or inability) to line-up behind the QB and run the zone stretch play 25 times a game.

thunderkyss
04-21-2006, 01:40 PM
Casserly has said numerous times in numerous ways that the Texans believe that Bush is 12-15 touch per game guy what can score on any play.

I can't fathom any team filling this role with a #1 overall pick.....


it does not compute.

tulexan
04-21-2006, 01:46 PM
I can't fathom any team filling this role with a #1 overall pick.....


it does not compute.


Really? I'm sure a lot of people would take Randy Moss #1 overall if they had the chance. He doesn't get 20-25 touches per game.

thunderkyss
04-21-2006, 01:48 PM
Really? I'm sure a lot of people would take Randy Moss #1 overall if they had the chance. He doesn't get 20-25 touches per game.


doubt it, there are just as many questions about his work ethic, attitude, and personality now, as there were then.

20 teams passed on Moss then, I'm sure twenty will pass on him today.......

MasterC25
04-21-2006, 01:56 PM
doubt it, there are just as many questions about his work ethic, attitude, and personality now, as there were then.

20 teams passed on Moss then, I'm sure twenty will pass on him today.......

Your crazy, 20 teams pass on a future Hall of Fame Reciever. Like him or not Moss is the most explosive downfield threat every in this league when healthy, and you actually think 20 teams would pass on him again. Put your personal feelings aside he is a all time great.

ArlingtonTexan
04-21-2006, 02:02 PM
I can't fathom any team filling this role with a #1 overall pick.....


it does not compute.

I assume that you would not draft a WR very high either. The very best in the league touch the ball 7 times a game. The problem for many is that they are trying to force Bush into a traditional RB role, because for lack of a better term he is called that. His function at USC really was an offensive player maker who lined up all over the place and caused confusion for the defense and made the life of the other offensive players easier. He has never been a traditional RB and evaluating him as such will lead to negative conclusion in terms of his value. TheTexans are projecting him to do what he has always done, not in a new role (a feture RB).

Your concern is warranted and one of the reasons I believe that the Texans pursuit of Mario williams and tradedowns over the last week or so,are more than mere smokescreens.

outofhnd
04-21-2006, 07:45 PM
To be honest the NFL has changed on us the last 3 years gentleman. I think the time of the everydown back can be officially regarded as extinct. Everything is now so situational in this league.

I mean last year in Denver who was Denvers main running back? bith players statistics were comparable..

We are all fooling ourselves thinking we will have a primary running back when there really isnt a primary back anymore. I honestly think there will be no rhyme or reason to our RB by committee next year. I think it will be play whoever is hot. If DD is picking up 100 yds and a couple tds the first 3 games he starts the 4th, if in the 4th hes contained and Bush breaks out for 140 and 2 scores, he starts week 5. sure we will have designed plays where they are both back there, but you cant confine both backs to being primarys and backups. Bush is unproven at the NFL level you cant automatically proclaim him to be your feature back without him surving camp and preseason. Its rare a RB performs as well in his first year like cadillac did and dont look for that to be repeated by bush. I think you take the McGahee approach in buffalo you play them both ride whoever is hot that week into the next one. then after a year or 2 of sharing you then make your decision.

jmerog
04-21-2006, 08:09 PM
To be honest the NFL has changed on us the last 3 years gentleman. I think the time of the everydown back can be officially regarded as extinct. Everything is now so situational in this league.

I mean last year in Denver who was Denvers main running back? bith players statistics were comparable..

We are all fooling ourselves thinking we will have a primary running back when there really isnt a primary back anymore. I honestly think there will be no rhyme or reason to our RB by committee next year. I think it will be play whoever is hot. If DD is picking up 100 yds and a couple tds the first 3 games he starts the 4th, if in the 4th hes contained and Bush breaks out for 140 and 2 scores, he starts week 5. sure we will have designed plays where they are both back there, but you cant confine both backs to being primarys and backups. Bush is unproven at the NFL level you cant automatically proclaim him to be your feature back without him surving camp and preseason. Its rare a RB performs as well in his first year like cadillac did and dont look for that to be repeated by bush. I think you take the McGahee approach in buffalo you play them both ride whoever is hot that week into the next one. then after a year or 2 of sharing you then make your decision.


I agree. I enjoy your posts. well reasoned- i'de give you rep but i'm out for the day.