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View Full Version : Your positives and negatives from the game?


TheRealJoker
08-10-2008, 12:49 AM
Positives:

1) Kris Brown is about as good as it gets when it comes to NFL kickers.

2) Looks like we'll have some solid WRs if Anderson gets the opportunity to carry over his play to the regular season. The guy isn't big or fast but he finds ways to get open and catches everything thrown at him, those types of guys should always have a place on an NFL team.

3) Duane Brown held his own against a premier edge rusher in Elvis Dumervil. He had the feet to match him in pass protection. Needs improvement in run blocking and against the bull rush however.

4) Steve Slaton showed flashes of his potential. He's gonna have to grow up real fast though if the production from the other backs will be similar to tonight's all season.

5) MARIO IS A BEAST!!! He looks to be picking up where he left off last season..that's a scary thought.

Negatives:

1) Ahman Green injured on his 1st touch of the game. This takes away pretty much any tiny bit of confidence I had left in him playing a full NFL season.

2) Our interior OL/DL was beaten most of the game. The holes we weren't opening seemed to be opening for the Broncos. Aside from a few key times when we could stuff them.

3) Chris Taylor didn't look like the training camp beast some of the members here have built him up to being. He looked subpar to be honest. Darius Walker looked average and Slaton looked the best for no reason other than he showed flashes of his elite burst through the hole at times. Our running backs were one of the weakest units tonight.

4) Jacoby Jones needs to learn that ball security is of the utmost importance even when the games dont count. That fumble should've never happened because the play should've been over like a minute before it happened lol.

5) It seems our outside linebackers still have trouble stopping the screen pass. We're gonna need to work on this before Pittsburgh eats us up with it on opening day.

Hardcore Texan
08-10-2008, 12:50 AM
From the gameday thread:

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=969403&postcount=555

Here's my thoughts on the game tonight:

- Darius Walker looked like our best RB out there tonight.
- Green is just not going to be dependable, hope I am wrong.
- Taylor looked so-so at best.
- Slaton looked so-so.
- The ZBS needs more work for sure, looked pretty sloppy.
- The other starters on offense played decent.
- Andre Davis is picking up where he left off last year
- Anderson is going to make the squad.
- Mario looked like he is getting ready to have a great season.
- Demeco look like Demeco, which is great.
- Diles made some nice plays
- Jacoby is a great athelete but needs to get some consistency.
- Brown held his own.
- The safety play was unimpressive except for maybe Demps.
- We still can't stop the run.
- Cochran is playing pretty freaking hard out there and looks hungry.
- We still can't punch it in from the redzone

TheRealJoker
08-10-2008, 12:52 AM
Redzone offense was another negative that I forgot to mention. It always has been, I hope the solution is found sooner rather than later. We have the weapons to get it in from the redzone passing. I think we lack the short yardage back/interior OL to punch it in however.

Hardcore Texan
08-10-2008, 12:54 AM
Redzone offense was another negative that I forgot to mention. It always has been, I hope the solution is found sooner rather than later. We have the weapons to get it in from the redzone passing. I think we lack the short yardage back/interior OL to punch it in however.

Or at least the threat of it, which will open up everything else. Without the threat we get shutdown.

GP
08-10-2008, 12:57 AM
Redzone offense was another negative that I forgot to mention. It always has been, I hope the solution is found sooner rather than later. We have the weapons to get it in from the redzone passing. I think we lack the short yardage back/interior OL to punch it in however.

Yeah, RZ has been a sore spot. Forever.

Very little creativity. The naked bootleg is no secret anymore. LOL.

TheRealJoker
08-10-2008, 01:03 AM
Or at least the threat of it, which will open up everything else. Without the threat we get shutdown.

True, the lack of a short yardage threat causes Schaub to try and force throws that he shouldn't which has led to turnovers and will lead to turnovers again unless they can find a solution to the redzone problem.

Hagar
08-10-2008, 01:10 AM
I specifically watched two guys tonight, Duane Brown and Frank Okam.

Duane did a damn good job and only missed one block all night. He gives up a little too much ground in his pass protection, but that's an easy fix given his size and strength.

Frank on the other hand started off real slow. The first few sets of down, Frank didn't really fire off the ball. He sort of popped up, looked around to see what was happening and then tried to move towards the ball. He just looked out of place. As the game wore on, you could tell Frank started move a bit more aggressively. He was firing off the ball much better and attacking the man in front of him. I think he'll make the first round of cuts, and then we'll see what happens. Frank's definitely got the tools, lets see if he has the desire.

AnthonyE
08-10-2008, 01:50 AM
Positives:

1) Kris Brown is about as good as it gets when it comes to NFL kickers.

2) Looks like we'll have some solid WRs if Anderson gets the opportunity to carry over his play to the regular season. The guy isn't big or fast but he finds ways to get open and catches everything thrown at him, those types of guys should always have a place on an NFL team.

3) Duane Brown held his own against a premier edge rusher in Elvis Dumervil. He had the feet to match him in pass protection. Needs improvement in run blocking and against the bull rush however.

4) Steve Slaton showed flashes of his potential. He's gonna have to grow up real fast though if the production from the other backs will be similar to tonight's all season.

5) MARIO IS A BEAST!!! He looks to be picking up where he left off last season..that's a scary thought.

Negatives:

1) Ahman Green injured on his 1st touch of the game. This takes away pretty much any tiny bit of confidence I had left in him playing a full NFL season.

2) Our interior OL/DL was beaten most of the game. The holes we weren't opening seemed to be opening for the Broncos. Aside from a few key times when we could stuff them.

3) Chris Taylor didn't look like the training camp beast some of the members here have built him up to being. He looked subpar to be honest. Darius Walker looked average and Slaton looked the best for no reason other than he showed flashes of his elite burst through the hole at times. Our running backs were one of the weakest units tonight.

4) Jacoby Jones needs to learn that ball security is of the utmost importance even when the games dont count. That fumble should've never happened because the play should've been over like a minute before it happened lol.

5) It seems our outside linebackers still have trouble stopping the screen pass. We're gonna need to work on this before Pittsburgh eats us up with it on opening day.

I'm not going to complain about that play and here's why. From my seat (right behind Jacoby when he fumbled, and could see basically what he could see), I saw a wide open field ahead of him. Had he held on to the ball and made one more guy miss he would have had an open field for a touchdown. I'm still going to fault him for fumbling, because he even didn't receive the punt cleanly, but the moves that he made during the play really excite me about his potential this season. Seems he has that swagger back from last preseason.

dalemurphy
08-10-2008, 02:03 AM
Rashod Butler and Brandon Frye were both very good tonight. Both held up in pass protection well and both men regularly cut their man to the ground on the back side of the running plays. I'm thrilled these two athletic, young guys control the edges for 3 quarters!

I thought Okam looked very lazy and disinterested (quite a shock for a Mack Brown coached player, I know).

Fletcher was awesome! He looked like a different guy and I totally believe Kubiak's talk about him playing his way into the starting lineup.

Buhlman was very slow off the ball every single play. I think, since he's in a 4 point stance, he's unable to watch the ball on the end and is reacting to the tackle- that's not gonna get it done. He won't make the team.

DBarber looked very good as well. Very physical and aggressive on ST and at safety. He seemed to understand where he was supposed to be. I wonder why Scheffler was still in the game in the 4th quarter, but it's not to embarassing to get beat by Scheffler in your first game as a pro.

Eslinger sucks!

Malloy
08-10-2008, 06:18 AM
I'm still going to fault him for fumbling, because he even didn't receive the punt cleanly, but the moves that he made during the play really excite me about his potential this season. Seems he has that swagger back from last preseason.

Thats a real good point actually, he looked like he was enjoyinh himself out there, and thats good. I also liked his sole reception, sweetness :)

Thorn
08-10-2008, 08:22 AM
Positive: We are still a good passing team, and our corner and safety play (compaired to last year) seems to be improving a tad. Mario looks to have a good year. We have one of the best FG kickers in the league, if not the best.

Negative: Still can't run the ball or punch it in in the Red Zone.

prostock101
08-10-2008, 08:24 AM
My two cents!

Running game - WTF! We started camp with supposedly strong competition at the position and by halftime we looked worse than last year. We may have to bring the Dayne Train back and hope for the best.

Offensive Line - I think everyone agrees Brown looked pretty good in his first start. The Oline looked ok in pass downs, but running the ball was just awful. The entire line looked clueless and Taylor's 1.9 ypc was the icing on the cake.

Schaub v. Rosenfels - I've always thought Schuab was the better QB. The exception is those idiotic throws into heavy traffic. I hope Kub rips him a new one for that throw.

Defense - Mario is a beast as advertised. They dominated the first series and after that they just layed down. I'm starting to believe that these guys are so afraid of injury in the preseason that unless they're fighting for a roster spot, they just phone it in.

Jacoby - He deserves his own line here. Great catch and then he does what he did last year on punt returns and try to outrun the coverage in the wrong direction instead of just heading upfield. Too many more mental mistakes like that and he'll get what Spencer Tilman calls, "An apple and a road map."

Bottom line is they don't find a running game with the mess at running back and the offensive line running around like Keystone Kops, it's going to be a long season.

Thorn
08-10-2008, 08:27 AM
Bottom line is they don't find a running game with the mess at running back and the offensive line running around like Keystone Kops, it's going to be a long season.


:spit:

I agree, but I've still got faith that Gibbs will get it turned around.

wolf123
08-10-2008, 08:29 AM
I think its its unfair to judge chris taylor off of just last nights performance b/c the whole line struggled to get any movement in the first half.

Are WR's are very good. I hope that david anderson's good play lights a fire under Jacoby jones.

Earl Cochrans play impressed me and I liked his hustle. the whole second DL unit got it handed to them all game.

I'm likeing the depth at CB and really wish I could have seen molden out there.

BattleRedToro
08-10-2008, 08:36 AM
I thought Darius Walker and Shane Boyd looked good out there and I hope they both make the team

Mr teX
08-10-2008, 08:37 AM
Or at least the threat of it, which will open up everything else. Without the threat we get shutdown.

You guys have to remember AJ wasn't out there.

As far as my thoughts:

positive:
- we got out relatively healthy save for Green.
- Schaub's shoulder looks ok which is a good thing
- Mario looks like he's picking up where he left off last year & Amobi looks like he's ready to turn the corner.

- Slaton looked better than i thought he would, Kubes should definitely give him some 1st team reps.
- For a team who really didn't want to show much & to be playing a team who pretty much knew your offense inside out, we did well.


Negative:
- A. Green, i've just lost what little confidence i had left in him.
- Don't see what the big deal is about C. Taylor... actually i never have. Last night he didn't look all that great to me.
- Haven't rewatched the game, but outside of slaton, none of our rooks stood out last night, one particular play i remember seeing Adibi get de-cleated..... not a good look kid.

Texans_Chick
08-10-2008, 08:48 AM
I thought Okam looked very lazy and disinterested (quite a shock for a Mack Brown coached player, I know).




I focused on Okam through the binoculars while he was in the game because he was one of the few guys still in that I thought might have a place on this team with some upside.

I do not know where you are getting that lazy/disinterested thing. At all. Personally, I believe if you are going to say such things, you should give illustrations other than a generalized stereotype.

He almost got the quarterback a couple of times, and was in on a tackle for a loss. There were a few plays where he ran laterally across the field to help with a tackle and literally was the only big body in the vicinity. He looked surprisingly quick, I thought, for someone of his size. He may also have had a tip on one play, but I couldn't tell for sure.

By that point in the game, Denver wasn't trying to run anything through the middle of the field and was bouncing most things outside.

He was usually the first one lined up on the line, like he couldn't wait to go again.

I got the same sensation watching Okam as I did watching Eric Winston preseason his rookie year. That they were learning, but that they were better than the 2nd/3rd string guys they were playing with.

They had a couple of linemen come off the field for a play, and he went directly to Jethro Franklin and they were discussing things. Doesn't sound disinterested to me.

I saw enough of him to be interested to see what he would look like running with the 1s.

FWIW.

pappy
08-10-2008, 08:49 AM
Positives:

1) Kris Brown is about as good as it gets when it comes to NFL kickers.

2) Looks like we'll have some solid WRs if Anderson gets the opportunity to carry over his play to the regular season. The guy isn't big or fast but he finds ways to get open and catches everything thrown at him, those types of guys should always have a place on an NFL team.

3) Duane Brown held his own against a premier edge rusher in Elvis Dumervil. He had the feet to match him in pass protection. Needs improvement in run blocking and against the bull rush however.

4) Steve Slaton showed flashes of his potential. He's gonna have to grow up real fast though if the production from the other backs will be similar to tonight's all season.

5) MARIO IS A BEAST!!! He looks to be picking up where he left off last season..that's a scary thought.

Negatives:

1) Ahman Green injured on his 1st touch of the game. This takes away pretty much any tiny bit of confidence I had left in him playing a full NFL season.

2) Our interior OL/DL was beaten most of the game. The holes we weren't opening seemed to be opening for the Broncos. Aside from a few key times when we could stuff them.

3) Chris Taylor didn't look like the training camp beast some of the members here have built him up to being. He looked subpar to be honest. Darius Walker looked average and Slaton looked the best for no reason other than he showed flashes of his elite burst through the hole at times. Our running backs were one of the weakest units tonight.

4) Jacoby Jones needs to learn that ball security is of the utmost importance even when the games dont count. That fumble should've never happened because the play should've been over like a minute before it happened lol.

5) It seems our outside linebackers still have trouble stopping the screen pass. We're gonna need to work on this before Pittsburgh eats us up with it on opening day.

positives
#1 is right on
#2 True but i bet jacoby is playing his way off the team
#3 Brown did well today and he seemed to be doing better than others at run blocking
#4 Slaton did not make mistakes so im with you here
#5 Go mario :thisbig:

The bad
Im fine with no green or jacoby returning punts from here on out . Our offensive linemen were not pushing back denvers front at all , if you watched denver push you seen them push as much as ten yards at times . Taylor looks to be still gimpy and makes bad reads as well as not going up the field instead of sideline to sideline . There does seem to me that smith wants to rotate ( left side to right side ) not only DL but linebackers as well and greenwood simply does not do well on the right side . However all night the DB players made the plays on the backs and the tightends so every linebacker was failing to cover anyone . :gun:

Texans_Chick
08-10-2008, 08:52 AM
The running game looked completely undependable. Very deja vu feeling.

Taking out Boyd and Turks' runs, the Texans were under 100 yards. Time of possession was crud on a stick too.

When Ahman Green came out of the game, did anyone else have the words echoing in their heads...."I've fallen and I can't get up."

It's just the first preseason game, but so far it looks like the same ole from the last two years. Can throw the ball reliably to a lot of different targets. Run the ball, not so much.

Vinny
08-10-2008, 09:02 AM
Rashod Butler and Brandon Frye were both very good tonight. Both held up in pass protection well and both men regularly cut their man to the ground on the back side of the running plays. I'm thrilled these two athletic, young guys control the edges for 3 quarters!they had their good moments but they also had really bad snaps...I'm not as enthusiastic about Frye as I am about Butler though.

I thought Okam looked very lazy and disinterested (quite a shock for a Mack Brown coached player, I know). I thought he played pretty well myself.DBarber looked very good as well. I like how he runs to the ball....he seems pretty decisive once he reads the play properly.

On some of the comments above, the red zone is where most all zbs schems bog down because they are generally undersized. I kinda expect us to struggle here early on since we have to rely more on finesse than your run of the mill, straight up smash mouth hog filled offensive line does.

We have a huge problem at rb....Green was looking for turf before contact. Dude wasn't even hit and he is already hurt. I'm done sipping this kool-aide. Taylor was unimpressive and Walker isn't a starting back in this league...he's a poor man's Dom Davis. He would struggle to make any roster in the NFL imo. Preseason week 1 and Chris Brown is hurt and Green makes 1/2 plays before he is hurt....we are already down to option 3 in the running game.

No way you can cut David Anderson....he was wide open early in the game when Schaub found the FB....he was open quite a bit all game. I've got him making the squad...period.

I'm still very high on Boyd....he is a very interesting prospect at QB.

off topic but the fannin park n ride cash lot was a joke. I got locked my car at 6pm and barely made the kickoff using metro rail since there were massive lines at the machines and they had zero support there (unlike last season). There were hundreds of fans behind me that probably came in late to the game even though they arrived at the stadium in plenty of time.

TEXANRED
08-10-2008, 09:04 AM
My take on the game.

First and for most, it was just a preseason game. This means the play books were limited and the coach's were looking to work in new plays, schemes, and coverages.

That being said:

Our Pass blocking looked terrific. D.B. won me over to the point were he he gets initials rather than calling him by his full name, ala AJ, Drob, OD, ect..

On the other side of that, our run blocking was horrible. I know a lot of you guys are be critical of the running backs, but in the zone scheme there should be holes. There were no holes and the Broncos LBs roamed free all night.

Schaub looked sharp. He only played one series, 5 passes, 4 completions. Nothing really to evaluate. He did good.

Sage looked good. But Anderson made him look good.

Speaking of Anderson, that corner come back catch was down right ESPN highlight real material. Good Gawd! Anderson just moved up to the #4 spot in my book. Jacoby, you just moved down and barely hanging on to this team. If he runs back wards again during punt returns next week he should be immediately cut.

Speaking of getting cut, Green needs to go. What is it that Kubiak says? You have to be on the field to help this football team win? I remember last year a caller called 610 and kind of grilled Green about his knee and after the call Mark said, So your not in Green Bay anymore.....No, no he's not. His free pass was last year. Taylor did what he was told, one cut and go, which he did, only there was no where to go to. Walker looked good. I like the fact that he put his nose down and crashed into a defender. That was my problem with him last year, he would rather go out of bounds than make contact. Slaton impressed me greatly but it was against scrubs. I would love to see what he could do in the earlier part of games.

Our first team D looked nasty at the start of the game. You could tell the reigns were pulled back a little. If they come out for real like that in the regular season that OH HELL YEAH!!!!

Thats my take.

markn
08-10-2008, 09:11 AM
I'm not too concerned yet with our running game. This is an entirely new system for them to get to grips with and I saw enough to think there may be light at the end of the tunnel. WRT Green's hamstring: Frustrating I know, but I'm just going to write it off as a freak at this point.

I was very concerned watching the Broncos 2nd possession. The ease with which that drive marched them down the field against our first choice D was disturbing. We've got to find a way of halting these kinds of drive, it hurt us last season and is going to put even more pressure on the offense to score if we can't get average teams like Denver off the field.

GP
08-10-2008, 09:13 AM
Am wondering if our running woes might be a result of the OL trying to "gel" (uggh, I know. I know. I shudder at that word, too).

We have a new center. We have a rookie LT. And they block for Green, Brown, Taylor, Walker, and Slaton--Five guys with different running styles/rhythms. So, this was their first real action against a real opponent.

I'm grasping at the straw of optimism here.

The DL's lack of fire after the first possession is concerning, unless it was planned so as to protect them from injury.

My positives:

1. No major injuries

2. We won, even thought it's a meaningless game

3. D. Anderson, Andre Davis, K. Walter, and Owen Daniels looked good

4. Duane Brown didn't look like a screen door on a submarine

5. Kris Brown and Matt Turk, as well as the ST unit, look ready to go

6. We made two interceptions, which is good for us (since we seem to struggle at getting turnovers for long stretches of time).

7. Few penalties on us


My negatives:

1. Our running game was stagnant, while Denver's was having their way with our D.

2. DL looked hesitant after first series

3. Couldn't seal the deal in the Red Zone

4. Ahman Green, and I don't know what to say on this one. Just tired of it. And I think Chris Brown is going to be the same thing.

5. Turk didn't get the first down. If he doesn't suck it up and get the job done on a measley 4th and 16 run...he needs to get cut. [/sarcasm]

Number19
08-10-2008, 09:47 AM
There's been numerous comments about the sub-par run blocking and the run game in general.

I have a question for those of you who have had the opportunity to really get a grasp on the team this pre-season : I believe I read that our OL'men were not going to cut-block against the Broncos. If this was accurate, just how well does yesterday's game reflect what we will see when we fully implement our running scheme?

prostock101
08-10-2008, 09:49 AM
There's been numerous comments about the sub-par run blocking and the run game in general.

I have a question for those of you who have had the opportunity to really get a grasp on the team this pre-season : I believe I read that our OL'men were not going to cut-block against the Broncos. If this was accurate, just how well does yesterday's game reflect what we will see when we fully implement our running scheme?

I definitely saw Brown make a feeble attempt at a cut block.

Vinny
08-10-2008, 09:52 AM
There's been numerous comments about the sub-par run blocking and the run game in general.

I have a question for those of you who have had the opportunity to really get a grasp on the team this pre-season : I believe I read that our OL'men were not going to cut-block against the Broncos. If this was accurate, just how well does yesterday's game reflect what we will see when we fully implement our running scheme?
its too early to get all worked up over the running game...but it's a concern since it is unproven. The Bronco running game didn't look much better.

Pantherstang84
08-10-2008, 09:53 AM
I'm not too concerned yet with our running game. This is an entirely new system for them to get to grips with and I saw enough to think there may be light at the end of the tunnel. WRT Green's hamstring: Frustrating I know, but I'm just going to write it off as a freak at this point.

I was very concerned watching the Broncos 2nd possession. The ease with which that drive marched them down the field against our first choice D was disturbing. We've got to find a way of halting these kinds of drive, it hurt us last season and is going to put even more pressure on the offense to score if we can't get average teams like Denver off the field.

I just got through rewatching the 1st half. We actually had our 2nd string D line after Denver's first couple of snaps on that posession. However, the 1st string LBs and secondary were still there.

That being said, there are no excuses for our D coordinator this year, many coordinators have done more with less talent. We have the talent to have at least a top 15 defense this year. I better see more 3 and outs starting Sept. 7th.

Pantherstang84
08-10-2008, 09:55 AM
Am wondering if our running woes might be a result of the OL trying to "gel" (uggh, I know. I know. I shudder at that word, too).

We have a new center. We have a rookie LT. And they block for Green, Brown, Taylor, Walker, and Slaton--Five guys with different running styles/rhythms. So, this was their first real action against a real opponent.

I'm grasping at the straw of optimism here.

The DL's lack of fire after the first possession is concerning, unless it was planned so as to protect them from injury.

My positives:

1. No major injuries

2. We won, even thought it's a meaningless game

3. D. Anderson, Andre Davis, K. Walter, and Owen Daniels looked good

4. Duane Brown didn't look like a screen door on a submarine

5. Kris Brown and Matt Turk, as well as the ST unit, look ready to go

6. We made two interceptions, which is good for us (since we seem to struggle at getting turnovers for long stretches of time).

7. Few penalties on us


My negatives:

1. Our running game was stagnant, while Denver's was having their way with our D.

2. DL looked hesitant after first series

3. Couldn't seal the deal in the Red Zone

4. Ahman Green, and I don't know what to say on this one. Just tired of it. And I think Chris Brown is going to be the same thing.

5. Turk didn't get the first down. If he doesn't suck it up and get the job done on a measley 4th and 16 run...he needs to get cut. [/sarcasm]

Exactly. I can't believe Kubes didn't bring another punter into camp. lol

CloakNNNdagger
08-10-2008, 10:06 AM
I focused on Okam through the binoculars while he was in the game because he was one of the few guys still in that I thought might have a place on this team with some upside.

I do not know where you are getting that lazy/disinterested thing. At all. Personally, I believe if you are going to say such things, you should give illustrations other than a generalized stereotype.

He almost got the quarterback a couple of times, and was in on a tackle for a loss. There were a few plays where he ran laterally across the field to help with a tackle and literally was the only big body in the vicinity. He looked surprisingly quick, I thought, for someone of his size. He may also have had a tip on one play, but I couldn't tell for sure.

By that point in the game, Denver wasn't trying to run anything through the middle of the field and was bouncing most things outside.

He was usually the first one lined up on the line, like he couldn't wait to go again.

I got the same sensation watching Okam as I did watching Eric Winston preseason his rookie year. That they were learning, but that they were better than the 2nd/3rd string guys they were playing with.

They had a couple of linemen come off the field for a play, and he went directly to Jethro Franklin and they were discussing things. Doesn't sound disinterested to me.

I saw enough of him to be interested to see what he would look like running with the 1s.

FWIW.

This is what most impressed me.........his range for such a big guy. As you pointed out, for whatever reason the Broncos were not calling plays down the middle, where we could have probably seen why Okam was our pick. "Disinterested" is not what I came away with. He had limited opportunity to show his wares..........He took advantage of what he was dealt. I would agree, that he should be given some opportunity to take snaps with the "A" team. I believe he could make a lot of those out there "believers."

whiskeyrbl
08-10-2008, 10:19 AM
I reserve the right to wait after our 3rd preseason game to state my neg's and pos's.

CloakNNNdagger
08-10-2008, 10:20 AM
I definitely saw Brown make a feeble attempt at a cut block.

I believe it was understood by both sides that "cut blocking" was not going to be on the table. When I did think I saw it on a very few plays, they could have been accidentally applied.

Comments on the ZBS by the Texans, for the running game specifically, it was more like the ZERO blocking system. The OL was not fluidly "sweeping" in one direction. It seemed that each lineman had his own agenda separate from the others.........attempts on one-on-one confrontation, which is exactly opposite of the principle of run blocking in the ZBS.

Chris Taylor looked to me, at least in this showing, to be a slow plodding RB. He was very hesitant, and was the furthest thing from a one cut and run RB.

I'm not sure about Slaton as a returner. He seemed to run behind his wall of blockers, but instead of taking adavantage of his quickness and speed breaking laterally when his wall met resistance with their opposition, he chose to run right up their butts.

Brandon420tx
08-10-2008, 10:27 AM
I focused on Okam through the binoculars while he was in the game because he was one of the few guys still in that I thought might have a place on this team with some upside.

I do not know where you are getting that lazy/disinterested thing. At all. Personally, I believe if you are going to say such things, you should give illustrations other than a generalized stereotype.

He almost got the quarterback a couple of times, and was in on a tackle for a loss. There were a few plays where he ran laterally across the field to help with a tackle and literally was the only big body in the vicinity. He looked surprisingly quick, I thought, for someone of his size. He may also have had a tip on one play, but I couldn't tell for sure.

By that point in the game, Denver wasn't trying to run anything through the middle of the field and was bouncing most things outside.

He was usually the first one lined up on the line, like he couldn't wait to go again.

I got the same sensation watching Okam as I did watching Eric Winston preseason his rookie year. That they were learning, but that they were better than the 2nd/3rd string guys they were playing with.

They had a couple of linemen come off the field for a play, and he went directly to Jethro Franklin and they were discussing things. Doesn't sound disinterested to me.

I saw enough of him to be interested to see what he would look like running with the 1s.

FWIW.

Aww you beat me to it. There were also some outside runs that Okam looked like he had no chance of reaching, but the big dude sprinted after them anyway. Poor fella I thought he was going to be gassed so quick, but he played really well.

On the near-interception by Roberson, Okam was the one that deflected the pass at the line of scrimmage. (It was a fricken sweet acrobatic move)

dalemurphy
08-10-2008, 10:33 AM
I focused on Okam through the binoculars while he was in the game because he was one of the few guys still in that I thought might have a place on this team with some upside.

I do not know where you are getting that lazy/disinterested thing. At all. Personally, I believe if you are going to say such things, you should give illustrations other than a generalized stereotype.

He almost got the quarterback a couple of times, and was in on a tackle for a loss. There were a few plays where he ran laterally across the field to help with a tackle and literally was the only big body in the vicinity. He looked surprisingly quick, I thought, for someone of his size. He may also have had a tip on one play, but I couldn't tell for sure.

By that point in the game, Denver wasn't trying to run anything through the middle of the field and was bouncing most things outside.

He was usually the first one lined up on the line, like he couldn't wait to go again.

I got the same sensation watching Okam as I did watching Eric Winston preseason his rookie year. That they were learning, but that they were better than the 2nd/3rd string guys they were playing with.

They had a couple of linemen come off the field for a play, and he went directly to Jethro Franklin and they were discussing things. Doesn't sound disinterested to me.

I saw enough of him to be interested to see what he would look like running with the 1s.

FWIW.


I was at the game using binnoclucars also. Like you, I was focusing on Okam.
I saw him stand up straight, engage his arms with the guard and/or center and waltz horizontally with him, often giving ground and disengage and stop moving towards the ball at the end of the play- I never saw him hustle through the whistle. Also, I never saw him penetrate at the point of attack on a run.

I will say this: He looked better as the game continued. I think I saw three positive plays from him.

1. Maybe 7-8 snaps in, he was blocked one on one with the Denver RG, and got a good push and a hand in the face of the QB.

2. He and a LB? made a tackle for a 3 yard loss. Certainly that was encouraging. However, it looked like a blown blocking assignment.

3. He held his ground well against a double team late in the game.

I've not reviewed the game on DVR yet, and perhaps it's difficult to appreciate the effort of a 340 lb man from my vantage point in section 636.

dalemurphy
08-10-2008, 10:44 AM
I believe it was understood by both sides that "cut blocking" was not going to be on the table. When I did think I saw it on a very few plays, they could have been accidentally applied.

Comments on the ZBS by the Texans, for the running game specifically, it was more like the ZERO blocking system. The OL was not fluidly "sweeping" in one direction. It seemed that each lineman had his own agenda separate from the others.........attempts on one-on-one confrontation, which is exactly opposite of the principle of run blocking in the ZBS.

Chris Taylor looked to me, at least in this showing, to be a slow plodding RB. He was very hesitant, and was the furthest thing from a one cut and run RB.

I'm not sure about Slaton as a returner. He seemed to run behind his wall of blockers, but instead of taking adavantage of his quickness and speed breaking laterally when his wall met resistance with their opposition, he chose to run right up their butts.


The backside cut blocking was pretty rough. I wouldn't worry, though, since it was their first attempt at those blocks ever. Brown certainly struggled on the backside in the run game.

Same for the RBs... They're relearning what to key on and how to react. I thought CTaylor was close to breaking a few big runs. I thought he looked fine.

Also, their was a lot of overpursuit last night. Particularly the backside tackle is going to look kind of silly trying to block when the DE and OLB overpursue. That's fine, though, because that's what creates the bootlegs and end arounds.

If you want to see effective cut blocking, watch Frye and Butler in the second half. I'm shocked people aren't raving about their play. They were fantastic... Butler, for instance, played RT for the second quarter and then played LT for the second half. He was solid in pass protection and good in the run game on both sides. Frye came played the entire second half at RT (except one play at LT when Butler limped off) and was good in pass protection and great at the point of attack and on the backside. I thought he played nasty and aggressive. Certainly, he seemed a little unsure on a couple of blitzes. Otherwise, I thought he was fantastic.

Malloy
08-10-2008, 10:49 AM
Honestly, if our lack of running game is due to the ZBS not being utilized in the denver game, then I'm OK with the yeards and runs we got. If however, our running game creates the same amount of yards when the ZBS is being used, then we're in big trouble.

I guess we won't REALLY know until game 1.

gtexan02
08-10-2008, 11:06 AM
The fact that we didn't run the full ZBS against Denver pisses me off.

#1) It basically admits that Kubiak and Shanahan agreed not to use cut blocks in order to avoid injuries. This totally corroborates how cheap cut blocks are, and how risky they are to Dl. I don't have a problem with playing within the rules, but by avoiding using cut blocks on Denver DL and against our own guys during practice, we are just asking for other teams to call foul against us.

#2) We waste one of only 3 real opportunities for our OL to practice cut blocking before it counts for real. We only have 4 preseason games, and starters usually don't play the last game. So we have 3 games, and if we don't cut block in the first, that leaves us only 2 real games to practice. If this is the scheme we are running as our main run scheme, I'd like to know that the guys have actually done it before in a game time situation.

gtexan02
08-10-2008, 11:18 AM
My positives and negatives from the game:

Positives:
1) Matt Schaub looks calm and collected in the pocket. He made good decisions. He made accurate throws that didn't put our WRs in tough situations

2) Our OL looks like it can handle pass blocking pretty well. We had minor pressure most of the night

3) Owen Daniels is going to be a star. He is one of the toughest guys I've ever seen on our roster. He catches everything his way and hangs on through tough hits

4) David Anderson really shined tonight. He made some really tough grabs and showed good awareness throughout the game

5) Mario Williams looked very strong against the run, something that I have considered a weak point of his

6) Our safeties looked competitive. On a couple of plays, I noticed them taking good angles to help deep routes. Lower string guys made some bonehead moves (Barber getting beat by Schefler), but all in all they looked OK

7) We played smart, and didn't get penalized. This won us the game

8) We seemed to take to heart the take care of the football slogan, and didn't commit many turnovers

Negatives

1) Our Dl looked slow and passive after the 1st series. They weren't getting pressure nearly as easily. They did well in the 3rd and 4th quarters occassionally, but I noticed a big drop off after that 1st drive

2) Our LBs disapointed me most of the night. Greenwood took a bad angle, Demeco got beat pretty badly by a TE and he had to resort to a heel trip (luckly a no-call) to save a TD. I was mostly concerned with their pass coverage skill

3) Our defense still doesn't understand how to play the screen or the draw. If it wsn't for penalties, there were a few plays we would have gotten killed with. This isn't year 1 for most of these guys. They bite on the fake too often

4) Our run game was really embarassing. We didn't use our future scheme, which annoys me. Chris Taylor looked terrible. He didn't hit the hole with conviction. He spun around a lot and went no where. Walker looked the best in my opinion. He didn't break off anything long, but he consistently found 2-3 yards, which is better than a bunch of losses followed by a 10 yard gain imo. Slaton did OK for his first NFL actoin, but you can tell he is going to try and stick with his college speed advantage. He tried for the edge and got beat a lot. Walker is the ONLY guy I saw take 1 cut and go.

5) Sage Rosenfels looked uncomfortable. He did pretty well, but he seemed nervous. Although I think Payton looks nervous too, so maybe this is nothing

6) Our WRs did not get good separation in my opinion. Most of their catches were spectacular grabs or grabs in traffic. I never really saw a guy get open, except for Tim Carter, who promptly whiffed on the catch. We didn't have any opportunities really for YACs.

beerlover
08-10-2008, 11:23 AM
Positives:

1) Kris Brown is about as good as it gets when it comes to NFL kickers.

yeah buddy, I still reflect back (can't help it) to the 2005 season against Tennssee to win the game, y'all remember the one, shanked OB, the kick that earned the Texans the #1 pick & Mario Williams. yes we have alot to thank Kris Brown for.

2) Looks like we'll have some solid WRs if Anderson gets the opportunity to carry over his play to the regular season. The guy isn't big or fast but he finds ways to get open and catches everything thrown at him, those types of guys should always have a place on an NFL team.

once again very competitive group, WR has gone from one of weakness to one of strength. some mention needs to be made also of the positive play from LaRon McCoy, he's fringe proto-typical NFL WR body that might be the best back-up to Andre in terms of size & athletic strength. very impressed with him as well as Anderson (Wes Welker like).

1 Andre Johnson
2 Kevin Walter
3 Andre Davis (KR)
4 David Anderson
5 Jacoby Jones (PR)
6 LaRon McCoy

3) Duane Brown held his own against a premier edge rusher in Elvis Dumervil. He had the feet to match him in pass protection. Needs improvement in run blocking and against the bull rush however.

have no complaints not even run blocking (did they run behind him on his side?) for those of us long suffering "get a LT degenerates" Houston we have a good looking, young LT. thank you Rick Smith/Gary Kubiak/Alex Gibbs :splits:

4) Steve Slaton showed flashes of his potential. He's gonna have to grow up real fast though if the production from the other backs will be similar to tonight's all season.

forget the change of pace thingy, if Chris Brown cannot take snaps along with Ahman Green, Slayton will be the starting tailback for the 08 Houston Texans. He has the natural instincts, speed & quickness to hit the hole in Gibbs ZBS better than anyone left standing. somewhat dissapointed with Chris Taylor too, I know he's inexpereinced but he just doesn't have good vision & see the cutback lanes, has to be more deceisive & explosive coming off the ball.

5) MARIO IS A BEAST!!! He looks to be picking up where he left off last season..that's a scary thought.

Lawrence Taylor-ish from the end position

Negatives:

1) Ahman Green injured on his 1st touch of the game. This takes away pretty much any tiny bit of confidence I had left in him playing a full NFL season.

release him, & let Rick Smith work the waiver wire, they're are going to be alot of RB's hitting the open market with teams 53 man roster cuts, practice squads were a team might think they can hide a player would be an excellent starting point.

2) Our interior OL/DL was beaten most of the game. The holes we weren't opening seemed to be opening for the Broncos. Aside from a few key times when we could stuff them.

can't understand this other than our stength in these positions comes from our starters, that the Texans still lack quality depth in this area so they are running them out there to see what they've got in back-ups.

3) Chris Taylor didn't look like the training camp beast some of the members here have built him up to being. He looked subpar to be honest. Darius Walker looked average and Slaton looked the best for no reason other than he showed flashes of his elite burst through the hole at times. Our running backs were one of the weakest units tonight.

see above; Gibbs will earn his money here.

4) Jacoby Jones needs to learn that ball security is of the utmost importance even when the games dont count. That fumble should've never happened because the play should've been over like a minute before it happened lol.

not a good game for sure but in Jacoby's case a wake-up call, he'll improve greatly from here on. one of the negatives in a playmaker is the risk-reward mind set of taking something & trying to make a big play out of nothing.

5) It seems our outside linebackers still have trouble stopping the screen pass. We're gonna need to work on this before Pittsburgh eats us up with it on opening day.

once again mostly back-ups by an large the Texans speed intermediate zone has improved greatly. really like Dominique Barber's play I would not leave him exposed on the practice squad, even if that means saying goodby to Earl or Harrison.

prostock101
08-10-2008, 11:30 AM
The fact that we didn't run the full ZBS against Denver pisses me off.

#1) It basically admits that Kubiak and Shanahan agreed not to use cut blocks in order to avoid injuries. This totally corroborates how cheap cut blocks are, and how risky they are to Dl. I don't have a problem with playing within the rules, but by avoiding using cut blocks on Denver DL and against our own guys during practice, we are just asking for other teams to call foul against us.

#2) We waste one of only 3 real opportunities for our OL to practice cut blocking before it counts for real. We only have 4 preseason games, and starters usually don't play the last game. So we have 3 games, and if we don't cut block in the first, that leaves us only 2 real games to practice. If this is the scheme we are running as our main run scheme, I'd like to know that the guys have actually done it before in a game time situation.



I just rewatched a good portion of the first half and I saw them cut blocking on numerous running plays. The problem was they were not very good at it. Most of the plays I saw, the DL they were attempting to cut was way past them and they just threw themselves at his legs. Too little too late.

Specnatz
08-10-2008, 11:37 AM
The fact that we didn't run the full ZBS against Denver pisses me off.

#1) It basically admits that Kubiak and Shanahan agreed not to use cut blocks in order to avoid injuries. This totally corroborates how cheap cut blocks are, and how risky they are to Dl. I don't have a problem with playing within the rules, but by avoiding using cut blocks on Denver DL and against our own guys during practice, we are just asking for other teams to call foul against us.

#2) We waste one of only 3 real opportunities for our OL to practice cut blocking before it counts for real. We only have 4 preseason games, and starters usually don't play the last game. So we have 3 games, and if we don't cut block in the first, that leaves us only 2 real games to practice. If this is the scheme we are running as our main run scheme, I'd like to know that the guys have actually done it before in a game time situation.


It is very common for teams that have a history or a linkage like Houston and Denver to have agreements like this, and it is why they play in week one versus any other week. With starters only working a series or two, it is not like they are going to get this huge work load in this game. Starters play as much in game four as they do in game one.

CloakNNNdagger
08-10-2008, 11:38 AM
Negatives:



release him, & let Rick Smith work the waiver wire, they're are going to be alot of RB's hitting the open market with teams 53 man roster cuts, practice squads were a team might think they can hide a player would be an excellent starting point.




The problem with this tact is that whatever player we may pick up is not going to ready for prime time for at least several games into the season..............that's IF that RB even ultimately "works out."

beerlover
08-10-2008, 12:14 PM
The problem with this tact is that whatever player we may pick up is not going to ready for prime time for at least several games into the season..............that's IF that RB even ultimately "works out."

whats the difference, I've heard Ahman might have to miss the rest of pre-season to rest his groin, of course your the expert on these physical injurys maybe you can shed some light on Greens proclivity to seek medical habitual rest, I sure as hell don't :crutch:

rockabilly
08-10-2008, 12:55 PM
Positives:

1. Our defensive line is going to be stout. Nevermind after that first series...preseason game 1 means scale back after one go at it. The key is no injuries in preseason.

2. We are set at WR. Our depth, hands and speed is impressive.

3. We are set at QB. Schaub is consistent, Sage is only a minor drop off from Schaub, and if we keep 3 Boyd has a great arm and legs.


Negatives:

1. Our running game concerns me.

2. Red Zone offense concerns me.

3. Jacoby Jones still makes mistakes trying to make plays

Overalls:
QB: We have a great group.

RB: Darius Walker needs to stay on this football team. He was the only back who consistenly got positive yardage and looks the most confident in what he is doing. Ahman Green is a failed project - I smell "collecting a paycheck" here. Slatons speed is going to be great if he would use it correctly for NFL. Taylor didnt make me feel either way on him.

WR: Davis was a great pickup, Anderson has more cajones than he knows what to do with, Jacoby is learning how to be a WR and his speed is gonna get him some big plays.

TE: Owen Daniels is one of the best TE's in the league. He runs great routes, catces the ball consistenely and takes the hits.

OL: Pass defense was positive looking. Duane Brown was pretty consistent at LT for being a rookie - his practice with Mario is going to make him improve alot faster than other rookies. Run defense is a concern. I do feel though that because this is preseason, we held back on our scheme - which is what you want to save for the 3rd preseason game as a test run for the season.

DL: This group is going to create trouble for QB's this year. In my opinion, that first outing you saw is going to be more of what you see in the regular season. Mario Williams is looking scary - possibly could up the level of being a DE in this league..it looks almost unfair. Colvin is going to help us alot. I like what I saw from him.

LB: I think this group is going to be stout as well. Don't judge them on preaseason.

CB: Not so sure about how I feel here. I feel like our 1st string is a 2nd string. I do think though that Reeves is going to be alot better than people think...i don't think he was in the right system in Dallas.

S: We have some hard hitters back there...which is what you want. I am not concerned back here.

KR: Davis is going to make plays. Slaton has the speed, but he is having trouble with the vision.

PR: Jacoby Jones has the talent to be Hesterish. Problem: He makes mistakes by trying to make a big play. Fumbling because you left the ball behind you when gaining speed is a problem. Take what you can get, and take more if its there.

P/K: Kris Brown is still great - no need to talk here. Turk made a great effort on the fake - thumbs up.

Texans vs Our Division based on our Preseason game 1 and theirs:

Colts: They are indeed the same old Colts....if they have Peyton Manning. If we can get lucky enough to have Peyton miss the first season game against us, we can get a decisive victory on the Colts. They don't looked improved to me. They will be the same or less good.

Jags: This team is the real freakin' deal. I think this is the year the Jags overthrow the Colts at the top of the division. We will not be able to run on JAX. Our passing game is going to have to win us the game - luckily it is our strongest area.

Titans: Vince Young still can't pass. If we can keep him from running around on us and keep Rob Bironas from field goal range, we could beat them this year. They are REALLY strong on DL...they are going to give us major headaches with pressure and run defense. Lendale White for some reason gets yardage.

Lucky
08-10-2008, 01:01 PM
I do not know where you are getting that lazy/disinterested thing. At all. Personally, I believe if you are going to say such things, you should give illustrations other than a generalized stereotype.

He almost got the quarterback a couple of times, and was in on a tackle for a loss. There were a few plays where he ran laterally across the field to help with a tackle and literally was the only big body in the vicinity. He looked surprisingly quick, I thought, for someone of his size. He may also have had a tip on one play, but I couldn't tell for sure.
I would agree with this analysis. Okam looked active, with a good push up the middle on the pass rush. He doesn't have the speed of Travis Johnson, but he does hustle on the outside runs.


I saw him stand up straight, engage his arms with the guard and/or center and waltz horizontally with him...
That was a knock on Okam coming into the draft, and it reared it's head again last night. When he keeps his pad level low, like on the play he blew up in the backfield, Okam is tough to deal with. Okam gave Jethro Franklin plenty of tape to both praise and critique.

Some quick thoughts on the other rookies:

Brown - I like his ability to stay in front of pass blockers. I didn't see the Broncos run a lot of stunts or blitzes on his side, and that is my biggest concern. The running game was never in sync, and that may have been attributable to Denver reading the keys so well. They see the same attack in camp everyday. Too soon to pass judgment, IMO.

Molden - Did he play? Didn't notice him.

Slaton - Had a couple of nice reads. Shows a burst the other Texans backs lack. I would have liked to see Slaton work with the starters some, at least on 3rd down.

Adibi - Looks fast on a defensive unit that seemed sluggish. When he's more comfortable with his reads, I can see the X-man contributing in the nickel as a rookie.

Barber - I was disappointed in the play of the Texans safeties, in general. I don't expect a rookie like Barber to see the play develop and react quickly. I'll give him a pass. Barber hustles and looks to hit.

Brink - DNP-Coaches Decision. Looks slight for a NFL QB.

Moffitt - A try hard kind of guy who doesn't look like a NFL athlete when in space.

Nading - Another hustle guy who might be worth a practice squad spot.

Long - Didn't notice much.

Overall, it was a sloppy game. The Broncos were just sloppier than the Texans. I expect a better performance next week, in New Orleans.

nunusguy
08-10-2008, 01:10 PM
Nobody gonna give it up for Zac Diles ? I thought he had the most impressive
performance of any Texans defensive player. Him and Anderson were the stars of the game. Not counting kickers.

m5kwatts
08-10-2008, 01:37 PM
Positives - THE ROOKIES for the most part especially duane brown adibi slaton and okam. brown didn't screw anything up which is about all you can ask from a rookie playing left tackle for his first ever NFL snaps...slaton looked good after a rude welcome to the NFL on his first special teams play, i like his burst and i'm gonna go out on a limb and say he leads the Texans in rushing with barley under 1,000 yards.....okam looked the way he did his whole Longhorn career by getting in the backfield and stuffing runs on atleast 2 plays and demanded heavy blocking other times....adibi made some plays and looks like a solid fast backup linebacker with upside for the future...

Negatives - THE RUNNING GAME didn't have the immediate impact I assumed would take place. Taylor showed flashes of great running and flashes of awful running and overall Slaton was the best back despite being put in bad running situations where the run was obvious and we needed to juice clock. Walker was consistent as always but he is what he is. Slaton has the best future in this rushing offense.

TEXANRED
08-10-2008, 02:24 PM
Aww you beat me to it. There were also some outside runs that Okam looked like he had no chance of reaching, but the big dude sprinted after them anyway. Poor fella I thought he was going to be gassed so quick, but he played really well.

On the near-interception by Roberson, Okam was the one that deflected the pass at the line of scrimmage. (It was a fricken sweet acrobatic move)

I have said it ever since we drafted Okam, he is the the missing piece to our defensive line.

There were quit a few plays last night that he shined brightly.

And on another note, did any one catch how well Reeves looked? First play Reeves jumps the route and breaks up the pass. IIRC the broke up another play and covered his guy pretty well. He didn't look like a scrub.

aj.
08-10-2008, 02:37 PM
I think my favorite play of the game was the second play of Denver's second series when Mario blew up Clady on that run left.

The Pencil Neck
08-10-2008, 02:49 PM
I have said it ever since we drafted Okam, he is the the missing piece to our defensive line.

There were quit a few plays last night that he shined brightly.

And on another note, did any one catch how well Reeves looked? First play Reeves jumps the route and breaks up the pass. IIRC the broke up another play and covered his guy pretty well. He didn't look like a scrub.

Before the draft, I said that we needed a big body in the middle of the d-line but after an interview that Jethro gave on 610, I didn't think we were going to get one. I was ecstatic when we got Okam.

I don't think Okam starts the season for us but I see him winning the NT spot by the middle of the season and I see him being a beast for us.

:fortune:

Da_General
08-10-2008, 02:57 PM
One thing I haven't seen anybody mention yet was the big blindside hit that Sage took. Chris Taylor was oblivious to the outside rush and it went right behind him while he stood there doing nothing. Not good at all. Reminded me of watching Schaub get mauled last season.

Brando
08-10-2008, 02:58 PM
One thing I haven't seen anybody mention yet was the big blindside hit that Sage took. Chris Taylor was oblivious to the outside rush and it went right behind him while he stood there doing nothing. Not good at all. Reminded me of watching Schaub get mauled last season.

I haven't watched that play yet but on the radio didn't they say it wasn't a blindside hit? The blindside would be his backside.

CloakNNNdagger
08-10-2008, 03:03 PM
I haven't watched that play yet but on the radio didn't they say it wasn't a blindside hit? The blindside would be his backside.

Bering right handed, his left side.

Brando
08-10-2008, 03:05 PM
Bering right handed, his left side.


lol, That would be a better way of putting it than his backside.:cool:

Specnatz
08-10-2008, 03:06 PM
One thing I haven't seen anybody mention yet was the big blindside hit that Sage took. Chris Taylor was oblivious to the outside rush and it went right behind him while he stood there doing nothing. Not good at all. Reminded me of watching Schaub get mauled last season.

I haven't watched that play yet but on the radio didn't they say it wasn't a blindside hit? The blindside would be his backside.

It was his front side, but also a lot of folks say blindside is because Sage had his head turned looking the other way. He locked onto a receiver and failed to scan the whole field as he waited for a specific target got open.

While Taylor deserves a lot of the blame, Sage needs to take some ownership as well for not having his head on a sival as they say.

Koolaid Time
08-10-2008, 03:12 PM
The running game looked completely undependable. Very deja vu feeling.

It's just the first preseason game, but so far it looks like the same ole from the last two years. Can throw the ball reliably to a lot of different targets. Run the ball, not so much.

Unless the running game gets fixed QUICK, then opposing defenses will just double AJ and send their D line and crash a linebacker on every down.

Someone gets hurt... and then you play the broken record once again.

aj.
08-10-2008, 03:14 PM
The thought that ran through my mind was 'I wonder if Schaub would have bounced right back up like that.'

I was relieved, pleased, surprised, all of the above when I saw Sage pop right back up. It was a wicked hit.

Lucky
08-10-2008, 03:15 PM
I haven't watched that play yet but on the radio didn't they say it wasn't a blindside hit? The blindside would be his backside.
Sage was fixed on the left side and Taylor was looking at the middle of the field.

http://texansbullpen.com/08photogallery/Preseason/2008-08-09-Broncos-Texans/2ndQuarter/DSC_0573.JPG

Neither Sage or Taylor saw the CB coming.

http://texansbullpen.com/08photogallery/Preseason/2008-08-09-Broncos-Texans/2ndQuarter/DSC_0574.JPG


Thanks to texansbullpen.com (http://texansbullpen.com/08photogallery/Preseason/2008-08-09-Broncos-Texans/2008-08-09-Broncos-Texans.htm)for the pics.

CloakNNNdagger
08-10-2008, 03:17 PM
whats the difference, I've heard Ahman might have to miss the rest of pre-season to rest his groin, of course your the expert on these physical injurys maybe you can shed some light on Greens proclivity to seek medical habitual rest, I sure as hell don't :crutch:

It apparently was a hamstring strain. He only had an upper thigh ice pack on for less than an hour after the injury. I, from then on, saw him without ice for the rest of the game on the bench and walking around. If it were a major tear, I would have expected him to have the ice on the entire game, and totally resting his leg. If it were only a strain, and not a tear, I would think that a week of rest would presumably do the trick. However, the Texans may be so skittish that they would rather not chance another more serious injury before games count. That's sad. That leaves open the the anticipated recurrent injury concerns, now to the beginning of the season, we've all had from the beginning. Also sad is that, again, the question of conditioning has to come into play.

Brando
08-10-2008, 03:21 PM
Sage was fixed on the left side and Taylor was looking at the middle of the field.

http://texansbullpen.com/08photogallery/Preseason/2008-08-09-Broncos-Texans/2ndQuarter/DSC_0573.JPG

Neither Sage or Taylor saw the CB coming.

http://texansbullpen.com/08photogallery/Preseason/2008-08-09-Broncos-Texans/2ndQuarter/DSC_0574.JPG


Thanks to texansbullpen.com (http://texansbullpen.com/08photogallery/Preseason/2008-08-09-Broncos-Texans/2008-08-09-Broncos-Texans.htm)for the pics.

Thanks for the clarification!

Malloy
08-10-2008, 03:21 PM
I say rest AG until game one, then let him start. Play him as long as he produces, and if/when he gets hurt... then we move on.

Da_General
08-10-2008, 03:27 PM
I haven't watched that play yet but on the radio didn't they say it wasn't a blindside hit? The blindside would be his backside.

The pictures already posted clarify what I meant...it wasn't his blindside, but he sure as heck wasn't looking that direction! And on the reply in the stadium you could clearly see Taylor was backing up the RT and the guy just blew by behind him. I would think that's solely his responsibility to pick up someone coming from that side. That being said, Sage shouldn't have left himself so vulnerable either.

Lucky
08-10-2008, 03:27 PM
I say rest AG until game one, then let him start. Play him as long as he produces, and if/when he gets hurt... then we move on.
If Green makes the opening day roster, his entire salary for '08 is guaranteed. I'd like to see him in the Dallas game (at minimum) before deciding to keep him. If he can't get through the preseason, I'd like to see the Texans look at Shaun Alexander.

Dan B.
08-10-2008, 03:27 PM
Chris Taylor on the sack (http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afcsouth/0-3-57/Stuff-I-noticed-about-the-Texans-tonight.html):

"That was my fault, I apologized to Sage," he said. "That was must a missed read that I had, but it won't happen again."

And Sage's:


Rosenfels' take: "That blitz doesn't happen very often in that formation. That is his responsibility, but as weird as it sounds it didn't actually hurt very bad. Thankfully it was a corner instead of a linebacker."


And let me just say that Kuharsky is doing a great job for ESPN's AFC South coverage. I really enjoy his analysis, and he seems to take the team seriously and actually research what he's talking about.

aj.
08-10-2008, 03:31 PM
If Green makes the opening day roster, his entire salary for '08 is guaranteed.

His 500k roster bonus is not guaranteed since it's payable in increments of 500/16 week to week but only if he's on the gameday 45.

Why is his '08 base guaranteed - am I missing something obvious?

Koolaid Time
08-10-2008, 03:31 PM
I say rest AG until game one, then let him start. Play him as long as he produces, and if/when he gets hurt... then we move on.

The over/under on that is the 3rd quarter of game 2...

Look at how many games he has missed because of groin, knee, hamstring, etc.

Brando
08-10-2008, 03:31 PM
Chris Taylor on the sack (http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afcsouth/0-3-57/Stuff-I-noticed-about-the-Texans-tonight.html):



And Sage's:



And let me just say that Kuharsky is doing a great job for ESPN's AFC South coverage. I really enjoy his analysis, and he seems to take the team seriously and actually research what he's talking about.


Yes he his and he was a Titans reporter. He is doing a fine job.

CloakNNNdagger
08-10-2008, 03:34 PM
Overall, it was a sloppy game. The Broncos were just sloppier than the Texans. I expect a better performance next week, in New Orleans.

It's only the 1st game of the preseason, but you have to admit that when you take away the yardage from Turk's fake run, and see that we only gained 19 yards on 10 carries (1st half), it doesn't exactly give you warm and fuzzy feelings.:shades:

Malloy
08-10-2008, 03:58 PM
If Green makes the opening day roster, his entire salary for '08 is guaranteed. I'd like to see him in the Dallas game (at minimum) before deciding to keep him. If he can't get through the preseason, I'd like to see the Texans look at Shaun Alexander.

Honestly I dont really care if he gets the money or not. Worst case scenario is that we will pay him his entire contract this year, but from my understanding we have room under the cap for just this. 'Saving' money on getting rid of Green before the regular season wont make us rich, money under the cap thats not spend is basically wasted right?

Now if he cost us alot of money and we were in acute cap problems, then getting rid of Green before the regular season would be a possible solution, but in our situation right now?

nunusguy
08-10-2008, 04:01 PM
If he can't get through the preseason, I'd like to see the Texans look at Shaun Alexander.

Or look at you or me maybe ? Just anybody who can catch a football in the open field and move on upfield without tweakin a hammy and falling flat on his azz.
I dunno, but at this point how can the Texans possibly have one iota of faith in his reliability as a functioning running back for their backfield given his incredible fragilty ?
How's that go - "fool me once, shame on you, fool me blah blah"

Malloy
08-10-2008, 04:01 PM
It's only the 1st game of the preseason, but you have to admit that when you take away the yardage from Turk's fake run, and see that we only gained 19 yards on 10 carries (1st half), it doesn't exactly give you warm and fuzzy feelings.:shades:

Mentioned this before somewhere, but if this first games rushing offense were not utilizing the ZBS, we should probably hang on a bit before judging them. Now if yesterdays producting on the ground were the result of our ned ZBS, I would think that there was a reason to be worried.

feebleminded
08-10-2008, 04:24 PM
His 500k roster bonus is not guaranteed since it's payable in increments of 500/16 week to week but only if he's on the gameday 45.

Why is his '08 base guaranteed - am I missing something obvious?

He is a vested vet.

Lucky
08-10-2008, 04:31 PM
Why is his '08 base guaranteed - am I missing something obvious?
I believe a player with 4+ credited seasons have their base salary guaranteed if they make the opening day roster. If the Texans waive Green after that, and another team picks up his contract, they are free of the contract. If he didn't clear waivers, the Texans would be on the hook. If Green were to sign as a street free agent with another team during the season it gets more confusing. According to Miguel's salary cap FAQ (http://www.patscap.com/faq.html), the Texans would still be responsible for Green's '08 salary as termination pay.

Q:A player with four or more credited seasons is on Team A's opening day roster. He is scheduled to earn $680,000 in base salary ($40,000/week). This base salary is guaranteed since he was on the opening day roster. He is waived by the team after Week 10. He has earned $400,000 of the $680,000 in base salary. Team A's cap hit will be $680,000 if he isn't signed by another team the rest of the season, but what if Team B claims the player on waivers and keeps him for the rest of the year? What is the cap hit for each team then? What if the player clears waivers and then is signed by Team B for the rest of the year at the same salary? What if the player clears waivers and then is signed by Team B for the rest of the year at a lower salary?
A:If the player is claimed on waivers, Team A is freed from the players base salary. If he's not claimed, they could be obligated to pay the rest of his salary as Termination Pay. That doesn't change even if he's later signed by another team. Team A is still charged for the full salary. The thing is, the player must request Termination Pay, and he can do it only once during his career. So if he has done it before or decides not to, Team A might not be on the hook for the rest of his salary.

aj.
08-10-2008, 04:32 PM
I missed the 'if he's on the opening day roster' part. True that for any 4+ year guy. Read through too fast as usual. I thought you were talking about something unique with Green's deal at first.

Texans_Chick
08-10-2008, 08:51 PM
My thoughts on the game are here:

FanHouse: Ahman Green Touches Ball Once, Falls Down, Is Injured, Few Surprised (http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2008/08/10/ahman-green-touches-ball-once-falls-down-is-injured-few-surpr/)

Nothing particularly revolutionary or different other than that a vampire rocker is now a Texans fan.

dalemurphy
08-10-2008, 09:01 PM
My thoughts on the game are here:

FanHouse: Ahman Green Touches Ball Once, Falls Down, Is Injured, Few Surprised (http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2008/08/10/ahman-green-touches-ball-once-falls-down-is-injured-few-surpr/)

Nothing particularly revolutionary or different other than that a vampire rocker is now a Texans fan.

Well, I don't think you can discount the bootleg runs by the QB and the end arounds. Those plays are so integral in the run game. The reason why they were so successful is the same reason why we struggled on some runs- overpursuit by the back side.

Texans_Chick
08-10-2008, 09:13 PM
Well, I don't think you can discount the bootleg runs by the QB and the end arounds. Those plays are so integral in the run game. The reason why they were so successful is the same reason why we struggled on some runs- overpursuit by the back side.

Eh. I don't see our A and A1 quarterbacks getting those same runs. So they are irrelevant to the regular season.

What I am concerned about is performance of the running backs.

The inconsistent running back play has been a pox on this Kubiak offense, and harms the defense by keeping them on the field too much because we can't burn time effectively with running.

Texan fans want to see better running play because it will allow for more things to happen in the passing game, and hopefully will lead to fewer turnovers because teams will have to respect the run, and can't cheat too much in coverage.

Fantasy players want to figure out 1. if this is going to be a plug any running back in and get a bunch of yards team; 2. and who might be candidates for that spot; 3. if the running game will be an albatross to the rest of the offense. If there is some sort of cheap acquisition Texans running back that they might grab.

Kubiak's offense is designed to run the ball. If they can't run consistently, it limits what they can do on offense and what will work.

It is early. Still, Kubiak won't want to depend too much on his inexperienced running backs who can't be reliable in pass protection.

dalemurphy
08-10-2008, 10:31 PM
Eh. I don't see our A and A1 quarterbacks getting those same runs. So they are irrelevant to the regular season.


I remember watching Steve Deberg in Kansas City run for 70 yards on a 4th and one bootleg. I expect there will be a number of times when Schaub gets 10-15 yards on bootlegs because the defense overpursued the zone stretch.

I'm concerned about the running game also. However, if the QBs are bootlegging outside of containment and we're getting 15 yards on our end arounds this season then that means our running game is being respected and accomplishing what last year's didn't.

I'm bothered by the negativity that seems pervasive following a preseason game that we won, where I saw a lot to be encouraged about. Certainly, it's a bummer that Green went lame on the first play. However, he was the only injury and it was a minor one.

What I saw was a team that physically overmatched the Broncos. We committed 3 penalties while the Broncos were desparately clutching and grabbing all game long.

It was our first attempt at cut blocking. The first time the RBs saw it in live action and had to react to it. So, I'm fine if we improve the next two weeks-which I would expect.

My only conern, frankly, is the fact that we never covered the flats. It didn't matter whether it was 1st, 2nd, or 3rd string guys, the flats were constantly exposed. That reminds me of my lack of faith in our Defensive Coordiator. I'm trying to convince myself that they weren't interested in adjusting in game since it's the preseason. But, I am worried about that.

Finally, I'm shocked that you and some of the other knowledge posters aren't raving about some of the performances of our young guys:

Butler and Frye were outstanding...

Fletcher looked great- how many of us really expected him to look so good?

Barber and Adibi looked good.

Brown was solid.

A lot to be encouraged about, yet the focus seems to be on the negative- which I didn't see a whole lot of.

New_Texans
08-11-2008, 12:56 AM
Positives: We looked sluggish but we still won. Thats a good sign...just wait til we are crisp.

dtran04
08-11-2008, 01:00 AM
Imagine if the Texans lost the game. Sheesh. Some chicken little probably will start some Fire Kubiak thread. LOL.

barrett
08-11-2008, 01:59 AM
i don't see any reason to panic about the running game yet. i see a reason to be concerned but you have to give them a break. it was the very first time we've EVER run Gibbs' ZBS. I expect to see massive improvement by next week and then gradual improvement in the weeks to follow. i think that it is very reasonable to struggle the very first time. now the coaches have something besides our cut blocking "run throughs" where we play a game called "i cut block you." where the lines are pretending that they have been blocked. now we have actual film to study of each players technique and execution.

for those of you who seem to think that we had an agreement with the broncos not to cut block, it's not true. we did cut block all game. it wasn't an accident a few times. we did it all game long.

honestly, Butler looked like he'd been doing it all his life. I saw him cut two guys at once late in the 4th. All the rest of them look a little tentative. which is expected. it was the very first time we've ever done it.

the same goes for the RB's. i just don't see how you can expect them to fully grasp the vison part of it when we've been pretend blocking in practice. these preseason games are more important for our OL and RB's than probably any other team in the league because we virtually get 4 chances to do a full dress rehearsal. fortunately, we seem to have a very smart group of coaches and players at those positions and i would imagine that they will be able to improve quite a bit by reviewing film of their mistakes and cognitively being able to apply it the second time around.

as i said before, i expect a drastic improvement over the coming weeks. if not, then cause for concern.

Go Texans.

p.s. And let me just say that Kuharsky is doing a great job for ESPN's AFC South coverage. I really enjoy his analysis, and he seems to take the team seriously and actually research what he's talking about.

i totally agree. yet i'm annoyed because now i have yet another distraction of must read Texans material to keep me from doing anything productive.

Texans_Chick
08-11-2008, 08:37 AM
I remember watching Steve Deberg in Kansas City run for 70 yards on a 4th and one bootleg. I expect there will be a number of times when Schaub gets 10-15 yards on bootlegs because the defense overpursued the zone stretch.

I'm concerned about the running game also. However, if the QBs are bootlegging outside of containment and we're getting 15 yards on our end arounds this season then that means our running game is being respected and accomplishing what last year's didn't.

I'm bothered by the negativity that seems pervasive following a preseason game that we won, where I saw a lot to be encouraged about. Certainly, it's a bummer that Green went lame on the first play. However, he was the only injury and it was a minor one.

What I saw was a team that physically overmatched the Broncos. We committed 3 penalties while the Broncos were desparately clutching and grabbing all game long.

It was our first attempt at cut blocking. The first time the RBs saw it in live action and had to react to it. So, I'm fine if we improve the next two weeks-which I would expect.

My only conern, frankly, is the fact that we never covered the flats. It didn't matter whether it was 1st, 2nd, or 3rd string guys, the flats were constantly exposed. That reminds me of my lack of faith in our Defensive Coordiator. I'm trying to convince myself that they weren't interested in adjusting in game since it's the preseason. But, I am worried about that.

Finally, I'm shocked that you and some of the other knowledge posters aren't raving about some of the performances of our young guys:

Butler and Frye were outstanding...

Fletcher looked great- how many of us really expected him to look so good?

Barber and Adibi looked good.

Brown was solid.

A lot to be encouraged about, yet the focus seems to be on the negative- which I didn't see a whole lot of.

Yeah, and eventually, Denver did pretty well shutting down the bootleg. And in the regular season, nobody will respect the bootleg if the Texans can't run.

And personally, I don't get too excited about rookies not sucking so much in the preseason. I mean, I am happy when they play well, but the regular season is different and more complex. That Brown didn't look awful against the Broncos is nice, but it says little about how he will do against the Steelers on the road.

The running game has been a plague on this offense, and Green makes the decision making harder. Do you keep a guy who might have been your best running back, or do you decide that he is not a reliable option for the season?

Then you have Chris Brown who has his own injury problems, and a bunch of young guys who might get your quarterback killed and are unproven (a bunch of Wali Lundy's--not saying that they play the same game but present some of the problems for the team that relying Lundy did).

I was just looking for something. Something to be encouraged about with the running game. But yeah, it is still early.

It's the old wound. We watched a game with a scary secondary and ungood running game.

threetoedpete
08-11-2008, 09:16 AM
I think its its unfair to judge chris taylor off of just last nights performance b/c the whole line struggled to get any movement in the first half.

Are WR's are very good. I hope that david anderson's good play lights a fire under Jacoby jones.

Earl Cochrans play impressed me and I liked his hustle. the whole second DL unit got it handed to them all game.

I'm likeing the depth at CB and really wish I could have seen molden out there.

Would you guys quit banging on JJ. Good Christ. The guy is under enough pressure. He's a good prospect and if you cut the guy a little slack he's going to be ok. He's not John Taylor in a box. He's a raw prospect who's body went mushroom cloud when he was a sophomore in college. They told you when they drafted the guy...he's raw. Raw means raw. He's still learning. He's going to make errors. Might as well relax and enjoy his development. When Kubiak's lip is quivering in the presser when he's talking about you, you're in the dog house for sure.

David Anderson is what he is. A smurf with hands of gold , smart, runs great routes and unafraid to go where angels wouldn't tread. When the coach smiles as soon as your name is mentioned in the post game interview...that there thingy is a lock to make the team.

Last point...all of you guys telling me that J.J. is going to beat out Walter...by the bye week, Walter had three pancake blocks Saturday....It's going to happen eventually. But I believe some of you are vastly exaggerating the gap between the two. J.J. is still a work in progress.

Polo
08-11-2008, 09:23 AM
Chris Taylor lacks the vision and lateral quickness I'd like to see for a back in this system...

Texan_Bill
08-11-2008, 09:27 AM
Negatives:
1) Running backs
2) Running game (RZ and otherwise)
3) Jacoby Jones (not just the fumble, but he needs geometry refresher course - the fastest way between two points is a straight line)
4) Secondary (too many open receivers - even with some pressure on their QB).

Positives:
1) Win. (In spite of all of the above)
2) Kris Brown. (Other than the Atlanta game last season, he has been nailz for a while.)
3) Boyd. (I enjoyed watching him play although he needs a lot of work.)
4) Duane Brown (He struggled a bit with the running plays, but looked pretty darn good in pass protection).
5) Matt Turk (What an athletic play after he decided to pull the ball down and take-off)... Okay I'm kidding about Turk

All in all - not too bad for the first pre-season game... Just need a lot of improvement.

HOU-TEX
08-11-2008, 09:37 AM
Butler and Frye were outstanding...

Fletcher looked great- how many of us really expected him to look so good?

Barber and Adibi looked good.

Brown was solid.

A lot to be encouraged about, yet the focus seems to be on the negative- which I didn't see a whole lot of.

IMO, you disdain for Salaam is corrupting you mind. LOL!

Yes, Butler had a decent game. To say Frye was outstanding is just laughable. I watched the game again yesterday and came away with the same feeling about Frye. The dude was being controlled by Dlinemen while being shoved into the backfield.

IMO, he'll be lucky to make the 53.

Chris Taylor lacks the vision and lateral quickness I'd like to see for a back in this system...

I think the same could be said for the rest of the RB's. The blocking was less than desirable too.

ChampionTexan
08-11-2008, 09:47 AM
Negatives:
1) Running backs
2) Running game (RZ and otherwise)
3) Jacoby Jones (not just the fumble, but he needs geometry refresher course - the fastest way between two points is a straight line)
4) Secondary (too many open receivers - even with some pressure on their QB).

Positives:
1) Win. (In spite of all of the above)
2) Kris Brown. (Other than the Atlanta game last season, he has been nailz for a while.)
3) Boyd. (I enjoyed watching him play although he needs a lot of work.)
4) Duane Brown (He struggled a bit with the running plays, but looked pretty darn good in pass protection).
5) Matt Turk (What an athletic play after he decided to pull the ball down and take-off)... Okay I'm kidding about Turk

All in all - not too bad for the first pre-season game... Just need a lot of improvement.

Additional Negative:
1) Television announcers who were too stupid to understand that the run by Matt Turk was a busted play, and not an intentional fake. I don't know if it's worse that they couldn't tell by simply looking that it wasn't planned, or that they apparently didn't realize that you don't practice fake punts on 4th and twenty by running your punter up the gut in a preseason game (or regular season game, or practice, or coaches daydreams, or anywhere else).

Additional Positive:
1) No turnovers by the offense. Despite the early comments on Slaton's fumbling problems, the only turnover of any kind we saw was on a special teams play. So far in '08, we're +1 in the turnover dept.

eriadoc
08-11-2008, 09:49 AM
I don't think the O-line did that great a job run blocking. It's still early, they have new guys, and Gibbs still has to get things refined. So I am not overly concerned. It is the first preseason game, after all. That said, the only back that showed me anything exciting was Slaton. Walker is not a starting-caliber RB in the NFL, and I'm not even sure he has a place in the NFL. Taylor didn't have much to work with, but I didn't see the quickness I would have liked to see. Slaton had nice quickness, speed when he could use it, and didn't seem too hesitant for a rookie. I don't think he could be a feature back, but if he could play himself into 10-15 touches a game, in varying capacities, he could be a game-changer, I think. He's still a bit away from that, but I can see the potential.

EDIT to add - Chris Taylor lacks the vision and lateral quickness I'd like to see for a back in this system... - That's what I'm getting at. I agree.

I was actually happy with Jacoby Jones on one hand - he seemed to have his confidence back and was really trying to make something happen. That was the Jacoby Jones we saw last year do a flip into the end zone. On the other hand, that was the Jacoby Jones we saw last year do a flip into the end zone - reckless and dumb. He has to secure the ball. I'm sure Kubiak will get that nailed down. Jacoby Jones with a swagger is a good Jacoby Jones, if Kubiak can get his mind right.

Mario is going to be as good as he wants to be. I don't really think anyone can consistently stop him.

Dominique Barber is FAST. I like that guy.

I agree with TC's take on Okam. I think he could be a good project at DT, and I would like to see him make the team.

Further edit - the D-Line was getting such good pressure early that the Broncos started running those flat-pass plays and a screen or two. We did nothing to defend that, and it hurt us. I think the coaches will get that part sorted out, but the pressure from the D-Line really made me happy.

Shaft75
08-11-2008, 09:51 AM
Negatives:
1) Running backs
2) Running game (RZ and otherwise)
3) Jacoby Jones (not just the fumble, but he needs geometry refresher course - the fastest way between two points is a straight line)
4) Secondary (too many open receivers - even with some pressure on their QB).

Positives:
1) Win. (In spite of all of the above)
2) Kris Brown. (Other than the Atlanta game last season, he has been nailz for a while.)
3) Boyd. (I enjoyed watching him play although he needs a lot of work.)
4) Duane Brown (He struggled a bit with the running plays, but looked pretty darn good in pass protection).
5) Matt Turk (What an athletic play after he decided to pull the ball down and take-off)... Okay I'm kidding about Turk

All in all - not too bad for the first pre-season game... Just need a lot of improvement.

What about Mario? Did you see him push Clady into the rb twice and completely blow sh*t up along the line? :d:

dalemurphy
08-11-2008, 10:15 AM
IMO, you disdain for Salaam is corrupting you mind. LOL!

Yes, Butler had a decent game. To say Frye was outstanding is just laughable. I watched the game again yesterday and came away with the same feeling about Frye. The dude was being controlled by Dlinemen while being shoved into the backfield.

IMO, he'll be lucky to make the 53.



I think the same could be said for the rest of the RB's. The blocking was less than desirable too.


Frye was very good at the point of attack, he never got beat by his man during pass protection, and he was excellent blocking for the running game on the back side. So, I'm not sure what you're looking at.

I'm not a fan of Chris White's game either, but that doesn't stop me from seeing that Eslinger was lousy. The fact that I don't think Salaam is good has nothing to do with my assessment of Frye.

ObsiWan
08-11-2008, 10:54 AM
I've remained silent mainly because you guys have listed all the things we all liked and hated during the game.

Seeing the offensive personnel we have on hand, I have one question:

Why DO we have to stress the run so much when the bulk of our current talent is with our aerial attack?

Before you jump me, think about it.

Where are our best and most dependable weapons?
In the ground game?
I think not.

Specnatz
08-11-2008, 10:58 AM
I've remained silent mainly because you guys have listed all the things we all liked and hated during the game.

Seeing the offensive personnel we have on hand, I have one question:

Why DO we have to stress the run so much when the bulk of our current talent is with our aerial attack?

Before you jump me, think about it.

Where are our best and most dependable weapons?
In the ground game?
I think not.

I understand your thinking but if teams do not have to think about the rub the they will drop 7 or 8 and then you have no passing lanes so your air attck is negated.

HJam72
08-11-2008, 11:03 AM
I understand your thinking but if teams do not have to think about the rub the they will drop 7 or 8 and then you have no passing lanes so your air attck is negated.

THAT's when we run. :kingkong:

It would be great if we had the running attack to burn clock when we are ahead in the 4th and all that, but we don't. Until we get one, we will pass or we will punt.

Polo
08-11-2008, 11:04 AM
We have a rookie LT...We don't want to get our QB's killed....As a team we still aren't great at pass protection...We've gotten better at it, but not good enough to say it's a strength...

Our QB's both have tendencies to make dumb throws...

Running the ball wears down opposing defenses and keeps our defense fresh...Passing a lot increases the likelihood of turnovers...

dalemurphy
08-11-2008, 11:09 AM
I've remained silent mainly because you guys have listed all the things we all liked and hated during the game.

Seeing the offensive personnel we have on hand, I have one question:

Why DO we have to stress the run so much when the bulk of our current talent is with our aerial attack?

Before you jump me, think about it.

Where are our best and most dependable weapons?
In the ground game?
I think not.

I think we're focused on the run this off-season because it was last year's glaring weakness. Kubiak believes running the ball is essential to success. I don't think he believes being run-dominant is the only way to win. I expect we will throw quite a bit but it's important to the overall success of the team that we can capably run the ball- that will keep the QBs healthy and making our passing game more effective. Balance is the goal. I think we'll run more, run more effectively and also throw for more yards and TDs this season if Kubiak gets his wish.

HJam72
08-11-2008, 11:18 AM
Well, hopefully we will get a running game going, because I do agree that it's very important. I just don't like to stick with things too much that aren't working.

The Pencil Neck
08-11-2008, 11:20 AM
OK, so I went back and I was able to watch the first half for the first time.

Chris Taylor had some problems. I think we can all agree on that. But some of the problems were him not making the right read, some of the problems were missed blocks, and some problems were him not hitting the hole quick enough. We left yards on the field in the rushing game. They were there.

I saw Brown totally miss hooking his man on one play and that guy was able to get to Taylor before he got started. However, if Taylor had been quicker to the hole, he would have had at least 5-6 yards.

On another play, Jacoby Jones totally missed his block on the CB and the CB was able to get in there and stop Taylor before he got started. If Jacoby makes that block, Taylor gets several yards.

On another play, Taylor has a choice of running straight or cutting back... he cut back right into a linebacker filling the hole. If he had kept following his blockers, he would have had 7-8 yards.

On at least two of those plays I've mentioned, I think Slaton would have been able to break them for some yardage (not that he WOULD have.)

So I don't think we're that far away.

HJam72
08-11-2008, 11:23 AM
Taylor sounds like Carr, except he doesn't run out of bounds as much.

ObsiWan
08-11-2008, 11:43 AM
I understand your thinking but if teams do not have to think about the rub the they will drop 7 or 8 and then you have no passing lanes so your air attck is negated.

That's what draw plays are for and I'm not thinking full blown Run & Shoot... I'm thinking more West Coast offense where curls and outs and short passes to the backs are like long handoffs. A passing game based on mainly 3 or 5 step drops will minimize the rush.

I'm not pushing any panic buttons. I'm just saying our running attack isn't - and won't be -a strength without a stud RB we can depend on. The only studs we can depend on on offense are in our passing game.

I guess I should look on the bright side. We still moved the ball up and down the field with our 3rd, 4th, and 5th RBs. Not well, but well enough.

ObsiWan
08-11-2008, 11:48 AM
OK, so I went back and I was able to watch the first half for the first time.

Chris Taylor had some problems. I think we can all agree on that. But some of the problems were him not making the right read, some of the problems were missed blocks, and some problems were him not hitting the hole quick enough. We left yards on the field in the rushing game. They were there.

I saw Brown totally miss hooking his man on one play and that guy was able to get to Taylor before he got started. However, if Taylor had been quicker to the hole, he would have had at least 5-6 yards.

On another play, Jacoby Jones totally missed his block on the CB and the CB was able to get in there and stop Taylor before he got started. If Jacoby makes that block, Taylor gets several yards.

On another play, Taylor has a choice of running straight or cutting back... he cut back right into a linebacker filling the hole. If he had kept following his blockers, he would have had 7-8 yards.

On at least two of those plays I've mentioned, I think Slaton would have been able to break them for some yardage (not that he WOULD have.)

So I don't think we're that far away.

I watched the NFLN replay of the game and saw the same things you did. Missed blocks by JJ (man he looked bad on that play) and Brown on a couple of plays. And I saw Taylor make bad reads on some plays too. If Taylor had Walker's ability to set up his blocking, he could be special.

Maybe when Taylor sees the vid of the game he'll see his mistakes.

Specnatz
08-11-2008, 12:45 PM
That's what draw plays are for and I'm not thinking full blown Run & Shoot... I'm thinking more West Coast offense where curls and outs and short passes to the backs are like long handoffs. A passing game based on mainly 3 or 5 step drops will minimize the rush.

I'm not pushing any panic buttons. I'm just saying our running attack isn't - and won't be -a strength without a stud RB we can depend on. The only studs we can depend on on offense are in our passing game.

I guess I should look on the bright side. We still moved the ball up and down the field with our 3rd, 4th, and 5th RBs. Not well, but well enough.

Isn't that what we had with YKW? :scarygirl:

Texan_Bill
08-11-2008, 02:28 PM
What about Mario? Did you see him push Clady into the rb twice and completely blow sh*t up along the line? :d:

Mario looked good, but call me spoiled because I expect that from him... ;)

forcefollow
08-11-2008, 02:51 PM
Positives: Qb's, Oline in pass protection, WRS, Dline, TE play.

Negatives: RB's really bad.

DBs mixed bag.

ReliantTexan
08-11-2008, 02:56 PM
OK, so I went back and I was able to watch the first half for the first time.

Chris Taylor had some problems. I think we can all agree on that. But some of the problems were him not making the right read, some of the problems were missed blocks, and some problems were him not hitting the hole quick enough. We left yards on the field in the rushing game. They were there.

I saw Brown totally miss hooking his man on one play and that guy was able to get to Taylor before he got started. However, if Taylor had been quicker to the hole, he would have had at least 5-6 yards.

On another play, Jacoby Jones totally missed his block on the CB and the CB was able to get in there and stop Taylor before he got started. If Jacoby makes that block, Taylor gets several yards.

On another play, Taylor has a choice of running straight or cutting back... he cut back right into a linebacker filling the hole. If he had kept following his blockers, he would have had 7-8 yards.

On at least two of those plays I've mentioned, I think Slaton would have been able to break them for some yardage (not that he WOULD have.)

So I don't think we're that far away.
I agree. There was a play early in the game where Taylor had a good running lane and he was just barely tripped up by one of their DTs (Marcus Thomas I think) and you could tell he was frustrated cause he knew he should have had 10-15 yds on that play. Another thing about this running scheme, you here them say one cut and go, What I think they mean is that if you can just make that one player miss then you can have good gains on the ground. I think our RBs struggled cutting and making that one guy miss, before exploding up the field.

Polo
08-11-2008, 02:59 PM
The team also allowed too much penetration...

ZBS will struggle when penetration is applied...Hell..any running scheme will struggle with defenders getting penetration...

ReliantTexan
08-11-2008, 03:07 PM
The team also allowed too much penetration...

ZBS will struggle when penetration is applied...Hell..any running scheme will struggle with defenders getting penetration...Yeah, that's a concern. I don't know if our O-line will be able to get alot of push of the LOS, We're a little light inside, with Brisiel and Meyers both weighing under 300. I don't know if this is accurate or not but during the game it said Meyers weighed around 283.

Second Honeymoon
08-11-2008, 03:07 PM
Positives = Duane Brown looked like he belonged. Huge positive. Anderson looked really good and Sage had a few nice play action moves. Mario looked dominant at times and from different spots on the line.

Negatives = Smith still relying on 4-man pass rush and soft coverages entirely too much. Green getting a noncontact injury on the first play of game. Running attack was ineffective and they continued to struggle in the red zone.

bollocks
08-11-2008, 03:29 PM
Positives:

1) Duane Brown looked pretty good in his first NFL action. This is a good sign considering that our team has never really had a solid LT.

2) Another solid day of passing the ball on all depth levels. There were a couple of bad passes here and there, but overall a good day through the air.

3) David Anderson is now a name well known to the Texans fans. With a little work, he could easily be a great slot receiver.

4) Mario Williams. Enough said.

5) We won! :fans:

Negatives:

1) There was nothing impressive about our running game. There were some flashes from Slaton and Walker, but on the whole the running game was weak. This could partially be attributed to poor blocking, but it's quite clear that we do not have a premier back on the roster as of now.

2) The bloody screen pass! Have we done anything this off season to address this gaping hole in our defense? We were destroyed by the screen all of last season and all of this game. Richard Smith really needs to take note of this.

3) The secondary was sub-par. Bennett seemed to be struggling and no one really stepped up to deliver an impressive performance. Nick Ferguson had a pretty good INT, but that's about the bulk of it.

4) Jacoby Jones needs to pull it together. He's a good talent, but he is inconsistent and is often blowing plays.

Maddict5
08-11-2008, 03:38 PM
Positives = Duane Brown looked like he belonged. Huge positive. Anderson looked really good and Sage had a few nice play action moves. Mario looked dominant at times and from different spots on the line.

Negatives = Smith still relying on 4-man pass rush and soft coverages entirely too much. Green getting a noncontact injury on the first play of game. Running attack was ineffective and they continued to struggle in the red zone.

from what i saw (not re-watched, just the once over on the bootlegged stream) we did blitz some notably on ferguson's int the safety blitzed iirc, and a bit of blitzing is all you should do in a pre-season game.. keep the blitzes for the regular season

dont be Preseason heroes and let every team have you figured out before the season starts

dtran04
08-11-2008, 03:42 PM
They sent a blitz on one play and got burned badly too (play where Barber was beat). This team just doesn't have great blitzers. Greenwood is a perfect example. They send him but he never gets there, so whats the point...

wolf123
08-11-2008, 04:41 PM
Positives = Duane Brown looked like he belonged. Huge positive. Anderson looked really good and Sage had a few nice play action moves. Mario looked dominant at times and from different spots on the line.

Negatives = Smith still relying on 4-man pass rush and soft coverages entirely too much. Green getting a noncontact injury on the first play of game. Running attack was ineffective and they continued to struggle in the red zone.

Teams do nothing but vanilla offense and defense so they don't show teams anything before the season starts

dalemurphy
08-11-2008, 05:56 PM
Teams do nothing but vanilla offense and defense so they don't show teams anything before the season starts

Sure, the preseason won't show how Brown will react to twists, stunts, zone blitzes, etc... what Saturday showed is that he is already competant to block a good DE one on one. That is something good that can be taken from Saturday.

TheRealJoker
08-11-2008, 06:58 PM
Teams do nothing but vanilla offense and defense so they don't show teams anything before the season starts

And then when regular season comes the defense will stay vanilla.. :gun:

CloakNNNdagger
08-11-2008, 08:22 PM
Yeah, that's a concern. I don't know if our O-line will be able to get alot of push of the LOS, We're a little light inside, with Brisiel and Meyers both weighing under 300. I don't know if this is accurate or not but during the game it said Meyers weighed around 283.

The ZBS is not meant to be dependent on size and strength and "push".............it is dependent on well-choreographed fluid movement that essentially "deflects" the D's point of attack. If the choreography is not executed properly, the smaller OL is toast. An elephant can attack another elephant head on, but will have little luck against trying to engage a horse.:tiphat:

Second Honeymoon
08-11-2008, 08:45 PM
Teams do nothing but vanilla offense and defense so they don't show teams anything before the season starts

i keep hearing this by people as some excuse as why the coaching is so bad. I heard it about Carr, I have heard it about our defenses in the past, and at some point Richard Smith needs to grow a pair and blitz...if we can't blitz, get some players that can. Stop making excuses and start producing....this whole Richard Smith laundry list of excuses gets really freaking old.

for my money, the guy just sucks. I hope he proves me wrong but it seemed like same ole Richard Smith to me.

dude better update his freaking resume because its getting old

dalemurphy
08-11-2008, 09:07 PM
i keep hearing this by people as some excuse as why the coaching is so bad. I heard it about Carr, I have heard it about our defenses in the past, and at some point Richard Smith needs to grow a pair and blitz...if we can't blitz, get some players that can. Stop making excuses and start producing....this whole Richard Smith laundry list of excuses gets really freaking old.

for my money, the guy just sucks. I hope he proves me wrong but it seemed like same ole Richard Smith to me.

dude better update his freaking resume because its getting old


I have concerns about Richard Smith too. However, I'm not going to criticize him for not blitzing in the first preseason game of the year. That's crazy!

You know, the Colts have won 2 preseason games in the past 3 years. They stay vanilla and don't look good in preseason either

The Pencil Neck
08-11-2008, 09:30 PM
However, I'm not going to criticize him for not blitzing in the first preseason game of the year. That's crazy!


Yeah.

Especially since we DID blitz.

Ole Miss Texan
08-11-2008, 09:35 PM
I was actually dissappointed in Chris Myers. I just rewatched the first couple drives in slow motion watching the offensive line play. Our RB's were consistently getting hit in the backfield.

One play our C/G got did a good job letting the DT's get by on a swing pass. Then it was either 55 or 65 (Myers/Brisiel) instead of blocking LB's ahead of the RB, he waited... turned around... and waited for the DT to get up and chase after the RB. I guarantee you whoever it was got chewed out today when they were watching film.

Another was miscommunication between Pitts and Myers. Can't tell who's fault it was but the DT went right by Pitts (could have been expecting help?) and got to taylor in the backfield.

I'm watching the Packers game so I'll finish watching our game again later. But all in all our run blocking was awful... awful. No.. it was AWFUL. (as if nobody has mentioned this before).

I feel like we go absolutely no look at our RB's this game as to how well they may do. The only thing we learned was the Green needs to go see his gynecologist.

pappy
08-11-2008, 09:55 PM
Positives = Duane Brown looked like he belonged. Huge positive. Anderson looked really good and Sage had a few nice play action moves. Mario looked dominant at times and from different spots on the line.

Negatives = Smith still relying on 4-man pass rush and soft coverages entirely too much. Green getting a noncontact injury on the first play of game. Running attack was ineffective and they continued to struggle in the red zone.

Heh those play action moves sage made were so good they faked out the camera crews . No it was not that the defense could not stop the passes to the backs but that they could not adjust to anything .

HOU-TEX
08-12-2008, 09:43 AM
I was actually dissappointed in Chris Myers. I just rewatched the first couple drives in slow motion watching the offensive line play. Our RB's were consistently getting hit in the backfield.

One play our C/G got did a good job letting the DT's get by on a swing pass. Then it was either 55 or 65 (Myers/Brisiel) instead of blocking LB's ahead of the RB, he waited... turned around... and waited for the DT to get up and chase after the RB. I guarantee you whoever it was got chewed out today when they were watching film.

Another was miscommunication between Pitts and Myers. Can't tell who's fault it was but the DT went right by Pitts (could have been expecting help?) and got to taylor in the backfield.

I'm watching the Packers game so I'll finish watching our game again later. But all in all our run blocking was awful... awful. No.. it was AWFUL. (as if nobody has mentioned this before).

I feel like we go absolutely no look at our RB's this game as to how well they may do. The only thing we learned was the Green needs to go see his gynecologist.

I do believe it was Brown that missed this block. It was a zone right play where the C and G were stretching to the right and the guy shot the gap right in front of Brown.

As a fan, it's hard to point blame at an individual without knowing the play and the pre-snap calls. Let's just say the Oline needs to tighten up a bit as group.

The RB's didn't help much either. Heck, the entire game was kinda ugly. I'm going to chalk this one up as a typical 1st pre-season game.

:fans:

Ole Miss Texan
08-12-2008, 10:39 AM
I do believe it was Brown that missed this block. It was a zone right play where the C and G were stretching to the right and the guy shot the gap right in front of Brown.

As a fan, it's hard to point blame at an individual without knowing the play and the pre-snap calls. Let's just say the Oline needs to tighten up a bit as group.

The RB's didn't help much either. Heck, the entire game was kinda ugly. I'm going to chalk this one up as a typical 1st pre-season game.

:fans:

The one I was thinking of the DT went between Pitts and Myers. #55 went straight towards a LB and #69 slightly pushed the DT to where Myers was and coincidentally right into the RB. I think I remember the play you're referring to with the missed assignment by Brown. But as you said, "let's just say the OL needs to tighten up a bit as a group." There were so many instances like this.

Without knowing what the actual play is supposed to be, your so correct that too often fans blame the wrong person.

The more I watched closely the uglier the game was. I bet all the backups (save Anderson) and most of the starters got their butts chewed. I really do hope this was just because it was the 1st preseason game and as they play the next few they get a lot more polished. If not, it will be a long season.

threetoedpete
08-12-2008, 10:45 AM
Teams do nothing but vanilla offense and defense so they don't show teams anything before the season starts

I agree. That's why I'm wondering where the corner fire that Taylor missed came from.

threetoedpete
08-12-2008, 10:56 AM
I haven't watched that play yet but on the radio didn't they say it wasn't a blindside hit? The blindside would be his backside.

I think "oblivious" is a bit harsh. What I saw....was a LB make two steps to the line of scrimmage, faking a blitz move...Taylor bit. Taylor's mistake was not figuring out quick enough that something was amiss when the LB drop back off. By the time he figured it out, Sage was planted liked grannies squash. A salty old pro may have had a chance. Taylor was a deer caught in the head lights.
I don't even know if he had the time to offer Sage a complimentary "look out" .

And finally, Taylor is the goat here no doubt....but it is Sage's responsibility to check the action on the on the front side to see if anyone is coming. et al, Taylor should of recognized the corner fire and executed the block. But Sage made a mistake also not checking the front side.

I don't know if Vegas would offer up a line on it, but if they did and I was a gambling man, your gonna see our backs have plenty of opportunities now to recognize the corner fire. Once something like that gets on film, D co-ordinators get a boner for it.

The Pencil Neck
08-12-2008, 11:03 AM
I do believe it was Brown that missed this block. It was a zone right play where the C and G were stretching to the right and the guy shot the gap right in front of Brown.

As a fan, it's hard to point blame at an individual without knowing the play and the pre-snap calls. Let's just say the Oline needs to tighten up a bit as group.

The RB's didn't help much either. Heck, the entire game was kinda ugly. I'm going to chalk this one up as a typical 1st pre-season game.

:fans:

Yeah, like I had said, IF Taylor had been faster to the hole, the entire point is moot.

But it looked to me like Brown was supposed to hook that guy. Part of the ZBS having smaller, quicker guys is for them to be able to quickly get into positions like that.

But like you said, just being a fan watching on the TV, it's hard to really know.

nunusguy
08-13-2008, 01:03 PM
Got a chance to watch my recording of the Denver game (I also watched the live telecast Saturday), and for those of you who said all the positive things about Okam's performance in the game - you guys defintely nailed it ! He played with a lot of hustle and intensity and showed excellent quickness, especially for such a big man. He's talented and should help us.
Also watched Stanton more closely and though he's not a hard runner, he was a little more scrappy than what I thought during the first look see. And he is quick. So getting him along with Duane in that first round trade is looking better all of the time IMO.

TheRealJoker
08-13-2008, 03:01 PM
Got a chance to watch my recording of the Denver game (I also watched the live telecast Saturday), and for those of you who said all the positive things about Okam's performance in the game - you guys defintely nailed it ! He played with a lot of hustle and intensity and showed excellent quickness, especially for such a big man. He's talented and should help us.
Also watched Stanton more closely and though he's not a hard runner, he was a little more scrappy than what I thought during the first look see. And he is quick. So getting him along with Duane in that first round trade is looking better all of the time IMO.

Dont forget we also got Dominique Barber who looks like he'll send Glen Earl his walking papers.

Specnatz
08-14-2008, 11:03 AM
Dont forget we also got Dominique Barber who looks like he'll send Glen Earl his walking papers.

He is a decent player (not great), if you can keep him as a backup, that would be positive depth.