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View Full Version : Can Dunta play Stong Safety for us?


Hottoddie
08-03-2008, 10:25 AM
If Molden develops like we hope by mid-season & Bennett continues where he left off last year, Dunta might have a hard time cracking the starting lineup, which brings me to my point.

Bob Sanders is listed at 5'8" 206lbs & hits like a ton of bricks. We all know Dunta hits the same way & is more of a #2 CB than a #1. Does anyone think that if he put on another 20lbs of muscle (5'10" 200lbs), he could play SS for us? Again, assuming Molden & Bennett develop into stud CB's, putting Dunta at SS would allow us to put our 4 best secondary players on the field at the same time.

LCB: Bennett/Fletcher
RCB: Molden/Reeves/Williams
FS: Demps/Ferguson/Harrison/Barber
SS: Dunta/CC Brown/Earl

That'd be a tough starting lineup & possibly one of the best secondaries in the NFL with some very good depth at the safety positions. We could still use a little more quality depth at CB, but it sure looks like we'll be cutting some good players this year.

What do you think? Given that scenario, could Dunta play SS for us?

TexansSeminole
08-03-2008, 10:41 AM
This Dunta to free safety idea is a little far fetched IMO. Dunta to strong safety is just ridiculous.

YoungTexanFan
08-03-2008, 10:44 AM
One thing I do when I scout college football players is try to project their frame and how much weight they will be able to add. Danuta's frame will not hold an additional 20lbs of anything.

J-Russ
08-03-2008, 10:53 AM
People are already fussing about the idea of moving a 180lbs Dunta Robinson to FS, so to go even further and have the thought of him being at SS? Well that's just.....

http://www.megatonik.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/inconceivable-1.jpg

Switching Dunta to FS and putting Demps at SS would be better, imo.

YoungTexanFan
08-03-2008, 10:59 AM
The best thing that could happen would be if both our young CB's develop as they show they could, and Daunta takes over the Nickle role and we can rid ourselves of Reeves.

YoungTexanFan
08-03-2008, 11:00 AM
or Faggins.

Definitely Faggins.

TexansSeminole
08-03-2008, 11:04 AM
The best thing that could happen would be if both our young CB's develop as they show they could, and Daunta takes over the Nickle role and we can rid ourselves of Faggins.

That's kind of how I see it. Hopefully we can get to the point where Dunta can switch in and out of a starting CB spot and the nickel spot. His rookie year he was very effective playing in the nickel. We may actually be able to blitz him again as we used to do in his rookie year. He was a very effective blitzer.

YoungTexanFan
08-03-2008, 11:12 AM
I agree, but he would have to take a paycut on his next contract. I still can't believe the Reeves signing, so there is no room for another questionable contract in the secondary. We can't afford two guys competing for the NB spot with guaranteed, long term contracts.

DiehardChris
08-03-2008, 11:19 AM
I see it like this... yes, Bob Sanders is an undersized, but excellent safety who despite his size, hits like a truck.

He's also constantly injured.

Dunta would have to be constantly bringing the pain as a strong safety. Lots of hard hitting, constantly piling up on his body at a higher frequency than it would as a cornerback. It's not like Dunta's going to back off his aggressive style - and I wouldn't want him to - but I think that would lead to him to more injuries because his frame isn't "naturally" big enough for safety.

If Dunta wasn't such an amazing hitter for his size, I'd have less reservations about it. You don't have to necessarily be a hard-hitter to play SS, but you do need to be great in run support, and a great tackler.

So, while I don't dismiss the move out of hand like a lot of others do, I'm not sure it would be a good move because of what a great aggressive corner Dunta is. If he wasn't such a wrecking ball, I think it might work better.

Marcus
08-03-2008, 12:10 PM
If Dunta doesn't ever regain the speed and quickness that had before he was injured, (which is pretty much a given, in my opinion) then he won't be good enough to play CB, FS, SS, or NB. There's only so many roster spots, and the competition for those spots is too fierce.

Is a pre-injured Dunta better than Faggins? Of course.

Is a post-injured Dunta better than Faggins? You might like to think so, but . . .

HJam72
08-03-2008, 12:11 PM
Another thing that we might consider is that Dunta refuses to return punts or kickoffs (not that he's been asked to). I know this because he was asked by someone in the media (who probably wasn't serious). His response was that no, they haven't asked me, and, no, I'm not doing that anymore.

I think Dunta knows his physical limitations. He will hit anybody, but don't ask him to do it constantly, because he isn't stupid. He knows that will break him down over time. I hope he comes back 100%. If not, and if he is no longer even one of the two best CBs on the team, he will just have to play nickel.

Hottoddie
08-03-2008, 12:12 PM
I see it like this... yes, Bob Sanders is an undersized, but excellent safety who despite his size, hits like a truck.

He's also constantly injured.

Dunta would have to be constantly bringing the pain as a strong safety. Lots of hard hitting, constantly piling up on his body at a higher frequency than it would as a cornerback. It's not like Dunta's going to back off his aggressive style - and I wouldn't want him to - but I think that would lead to him to more injuries because his frame isn't "naturally" big enough for safety.

If Dunta wasn't such an amazing hitter for his size, I'd have less reservations about it. You don't have to necessarily be a hard-hitter to play SS, but you do need to be great in run support, and a great tackler.

So, while I don't dismiss the move out of hand like a lot of others do, I'm not sure it would be a good move because of what a great aggressive corner Dunta is. If he wasn't such a wrecking ball, I think it might work better.


I agree & that's why I was thinking the extra muscle mass could help him. But, as YTF suggests, if he can't put that much weight on his frame, then it just won't work. I'm just afraid he's going to have lost enough of his quickness to not be as effective as he once was. And, once the opposing teams see that, it'll be like feeding time in a blood filled tank of piranha.

BornOrange
08-03-2008, 01:10 PM
If any of our current CB's get moved to a safety position, it will be Bennett and/or Molden. They have the size to make the switch.

Bubbajwp
08-03-2008, 02:26 PM
If any of our current CB's get moved to a safety position, it will be Bennett and/or Molden. They have the size to make the switch.

Ding ding ding we have a winner.

CloakNNNdagger
08-03-2008, 03:48 PM
I agree & that's why I was thinking the extra muscle mass could help him. But, as YTF suggests, if he can't put that much weight on his frame, then it just won't work. I'm just afraid he's going to have lost enough of his quickness to not be as effective as he once was. And, once the opposing teams see that, it'll be like feeding time in a blood filled tank of piranha.

I also agree with Diehard.......but that same muscle mass/WEIGHT that you suggested on the same frame puts even more stress on the areas that have already experienced a major potentially career threatening trauma.

Texan Asylum
08-03-2008, 05:00 PM
I'm not very knowledgeable about some of the mechanics and strategies of football, so I've got a request...

Would someone help me understand the differences between the cornerbacks and the various safety positions?

How do they differ, and most importantly the idea and strategies behind each one's role.

Rep for all who help. :fans:

TK_Gamer
08-03-2008, 05:19 PM
In simple terms SS's are tacklers used predominantly in run support to tackle the ball carrier that makes it into the 2nd level or area covered by the linebackers. FS's are usually more coverage support. They cover and disrupt recievers once they get into the deep secondary portion of the field (10-20 yards from the line of scrimmage) they also are not so much run support but tackle support. While the CB's are engaged on the WR's the FS is free to move in for the dissrupting hit at the point of reception. The CB's basicly cover WR's , either as they enter their zone or in a man to man role.

Not to confuse things, but the Texans differ from this norm in that they typically assign their secondary to sides of the field rather than a particular reciever. so you have a LCB, RCB, LS and RS. left corner right corner, etc. this makes their footwork easier as they are usually defending a certain angle of attack at all times. Hope that helps.

The Pencil Neck
08-03-2008, 05:24 PM
I'm not very knowledgeable about some of the mechanics and strategies of football, so I've got a request...

Would someone help me understand the differences between the cornerbacks and the various safety positions?

How do they differ, and most importantly the idea and strategies behind each one's role.

Rep for all who help. :fans:

A lot depends on the scheme but generally you've got two cornerbacks. They usually line up on either side of the alignment but that can change depending on the defense (and the offensive alignment.) In a "normal" offense, the cornerback's main job is to run with the wide receivers and keep them from catching the balls. In a zone defense, that job changes to just being able to react to the ball and either get to it before the receiver in his zone or to make the tackle.

Safeties are the last line of defense. They're usually the guys that line up deepest in the defense.

A FREE safety is like a cornerback except usually a little slower. A free safety's job responsibilities are frequently to just go back and make sure no one gets behind him as well as to read the QB's eyes and try to make a play on any pass he makes. Sometimes, they'll have to cover a slot receiver. When cornerbacks start to lose a step as they get older, they frequently move to free safety. They normally have to have good ball skills and be willing to hit. In zones, they're usually in the deep zone.

A STRONG safety is a smaller, faster linebacker or bigger and slower than a FREE safety. His job is usually to come up in run support as well as to be the last line of defense if someone breaks through. In pass defense, he'll frequently be called on to cover the tight end or to play a deep zone. Strong safeties are frequently the enforcers in the middle of the field whose job is to hit any receiver in the middle of the field and take their head off.

In some defenses, like ours, some of these definitions get blurry.

CloakNNNdagger
08-03-2008, 05:28 PM
In simple terms SS's are tacklers used predominantly in run support to tackle the ball carrier that makes it into the 2nd level or area covered by the linebackers. FS's are usually more coverage support. They cover and disrupt recievers once they get into the deep secondary portion of the field (10-20 yards from the line of scrimmage) they also are not so much run support but tackle support. While the CB's are engaged on the WR's the FS is free to move in for the dissrupting hit at the point of reception. The CB's basicly cover WR's , either as they enter their zone or in a man to man role.

Not to confuse things, but the Texans differ from this norm in that they typically assign their secondary to sides of the field rather than a particular reciever. so you have a LCB, RCB, LS and RS. left corner right corner, etc. this makes their footwork easier as they are usually defending a certain angle of attack at all times. Hope that helps.

Pretty much a good synopsis, TK and Pencil Neck.

Watchman, for some useful fill in to the above position info:

CORNERBACK (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornerback)

SAFETY (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safety_%28football_position%29)

Arky
08-03-2008, 05:36 PM
Good article on the main site on this subject (secondary):

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=4454

Also, check out the video of Hoke explaining a few things....

gary
08-03-2008, 05:45 PM
Move somone else not DRob.

ObsiWan
08-03-2008, 06:36 PM
How about we give D-Rob a chance to heal and win his job back...?
He's not Charles Spencer or Domanick Davis; he'll be back.

Hottoddie
08-03-2008, 07:29 PM
How about we give D-Rob a chance to heal and win his job back...?
He's not Charles Spencer or Domanick Davis; he'll be back.

That's not my point. The question was how can we get our best players on the field at the same time. I indicated that I was assuming Molden would develop into a starting CB by mid-season. If that happens, do you demote him to the NB position where he'll most likely only get in on obvious passing situations? I'm also assuming that Dunta is going to be a step slower. It wasn't an endorsement to take his job away, but a question as to whether or not he could bulk up to play the SS position. It's my opinion that Bennett, Dunta, & Demps are our best 3 secondary players with Molden looking good enough so far, to become a starter. It was just a hypothetical question.

gary
08-03-2008, 08:31 PM
DRob should not be moved without having a chance to win back his starting job.

The Pencil Neck
08-03-2008, 08:40 PM
That's not my point. The question was how can we get our best players on the field at the same time. I indicated that I was assuming Molden would develop into a starting CB by mid-season. If that happens, do you demote him to the NB position where he'll most likely only get in on obvious passing situations? I'm also assuming that Dunta is going to be a step slower. It wasn't an endorsement to take his job away, but a question as to whether or not he could bulk up to play the SS position. It's my opinion that Bennett, Dunta, & Demps are our best 3 secondary players with Molden looking good enough so far, to become a starter. It was just a hypothetical question.

It all depends on how good or bad Dunta is when he comes back and how good or bad the other corners are when he gets back. Whoever the two best corners are should be on the field.

But if you want to be successful in this league, you need two great corners and at least one very, very good corner. If Antwaun steps up and Dunta comes back as good as he was, excellent. When we face pass happy teams like the Colts and the Patriots, we're going to be in good shape.

If we keep these three guys together, great. We can rotate guys, we can use them situationally.

The idea is to put the best 4 DB's on the field that we can. That means the two best corners and the two best safeties. Dunta MAY could be a free safety... but our system isn't really a Strong side/Weak side defense. It's more of a cover-2 type of approach with a right/left corner and a right/left safety. So we don't really have the smaller, speedy free safety; we have two guys who are kinda tweeners between strong and free. Two guys who can come up and play the run but can also play deep zones... at least, that's the idea.

I don't know if Dunta could grow into that sort of role. If he's not one of our two best corners, then he probably shouldn't be on the field.

gary
08-03-2008, 08:56 PM
Ageed.

painekiller
08-04-2008, 09:20 AM
I agree, but he would have to take a paycut on his next contract. I still can't believe the Reeves signing, so there is no room for another questionable contract in the secondary. We can't afford two guys competing for the NB spot with guaranteed, long term contracts.

Actually Reeves contract is pretty cut friendly, he has roster bonuses, those have driven up the reports of the guaranteed money. Really we gave him a one year deal, we can walk away from, BTW Keith from In The Bulls Eye pointed this out to me, and he really has a good understanding of the contracts.

TexansSeminole
08-04-2008, 09:32 AM
I see alot of people assuming Dunta will not come back a starting CB and I urge you guys to open your minds a little bit. Dunta is a very hard worker, yet he does not overwork himself. He seems to be doing well in his recovery. Yes, he will not be back to the old Dunta this season, but after a year, I think we might be getting our old Dunta back. Even if he doesn't come back 100%, which is very possible, I still believe he has a good shot at being able to play CB in this league as a starter.

nunusguy
08-04-2008, 09:49 AM
Even if he doesn't come back 100%, which is very possible, I still believe he has a good shot at being able to play CB in this league as a starter.

"In this league", may be the operative phrase here, because the system the Texans have not only places a premium but places a requirement on pure foot speed for its CBs in its man-coverage. So Dunta may be a fit in a system with more zone type coverages for its corners, while not here.
And this in no way a knock on D-Robs work ethic or personal determination or persevearance. It's just a matter of whether or not his body is able to mend such that his pre-injury athletic prowess is restored.

TexansSeminole
08-04-2008, 09:57 AM
And this in no way a knock on D-Robs work ethic or personal determination or persevearance. It's just a matter of whether or not his body is able to mend such that his pre-injury athletic prowess is restored.

True, my point was that if it is physically possible, D-Rob is doing everything he can to make it happen.

YoungTexanFan
08-04-2008, 10:08 AM
I see alot of people assuming Dunta will not come back a starting CB and I urge you guys to open your minds a little bit. Dunta is a very hard worker, yet he does not overwork himself. He seems to be doing well in his recovery. Yes, he will not be back to the old Dunta this season, but after a year, I think we might be getting our old Dunta back. Even if he doesn't come back 100%, which is very possible, I still believe he has a good shot at being able to play CB in this league as a starter.

First of all, I don't assume Daunta would be able to hold his starter job for much longer based on talent. However, I'll play along with that notion for now. We both agree that Robinson won't be the same calibur player this season as he was before his injury. Cool. However, Daunta's contract expires after this season and we do not have an extension in place yet to my knowledge. You believe he will come back and be a top notch CB in the following season. I believe he was never a top notch CB and will be nothing more than a Nickle when he comes back. We vary there, but the main issue with our disagreeing opinions is the issue of his next contract. He is unlikely to play many games this year, and he is VERY unlikely to play as many series as he did prior to the injury. In essense, I mean: the coaching staff will ease Robinson back slowly only AFTER he is cleared to play in games at all. Meaning, Daunta Robinson will not be a starting CB for your Houston Texans this season. Does Rick Smith offer him a contract that an elite (which he clearly isn't) CB would get on the open market? Does Rick Smith offer him a servicable veteran STARTING CB contract like we gave Reeves? Does Rick Smith offer him a contract that a Nickle-Back would expect to recieve? Does Rick Smith even offer him a contract?

Lucky
08-04-2008, 10:29 AM
Does Rick Smith even offer him a contract?
I believe the Texans will offer Dunta a contract. It won't likely be the $60 million with $20 million guaranteed type deal Robinson could have gotten prior to the injury. Dunta might be best served signing a 1 year contract, then returning to the FA market next season.

The Texans could place a transition tag on Robinson before the '09 FA period. That would allow the Texans to match any offer he receives, but would not return any compensation from the team that signed Robinson. Last year's transition tag number for DBs was over $7.6 million. A large cap hit, but not the investment required of a long term contract.

Regarding the thread topic, Dunta can't play safety for the Texans.

Polo
08-04-2008, 10:37 AM
If Dunta comes back and is playing close to or on the same level as he was pre-injury he's better than Molden or Bennett...

Not saying that they can't eventually be better, but they will have some catching up to do...

Dunta got caught on his fair share of times, but QB's weren't throwing it his way much because of who he was and the ability he had...Dunta was playing at a really high level last year, so assuming that he won't come back and be better than Molden or Bennett is a little naive IMO. I think folks are selling Dunta waaaay short in this thread...

That said...I'd rather move Molden to FS if Dunta proves he can come back and play corner at a high level...Molden is physical and has the big body for the position...I think he could be a really good FS and provide a lot of range and play making ability...He's still young and raw enough to where that could be an effective move...

I don't like Dunta as a safety, Free or Strong...

Even if Molden is playing at a high level..I'd rather him move to Free if Dunta can come back and be a starter...That move would make our secondary stronger than having little Dunta at FS...JMO...

Matt
08-04-2008, 12:34 PM
Is a pre-injured Dunta better than Faggins? Of course.

Is a post-injured Dunta better than Faggins? You might like to think so, but . . .

Hold up. Even a dead Dunta is better than Petey.

NitroGSXR
08-04-2008, 12:39 PM
If Molden develops like we hope by mid-season & Bennett continues where he left off last year, Dunta might have a hard time cracking the starting lineup, which brings me to my point.

Bob Sanders is listed at 5'8" 206lbs & hits like a ton of bricks. We all know Dunta hits the same way & is more of a #2 CB than a #1. Does anyone think that if he put on another 20lbs of muscle (5'10" 200lbs), he could play SS for us? Again, assuming Molden & Bennett develop into stud CB's, putting Dunta at SS would allow us to put our 4 best secondary players on the field at the same time.

LCB: Bennett/Fletcher
RCB: Molden/Reeves/Williams
FS: Demps/Ferguson/Harrison/Barber
SS: Dunta/CC Brown/Earl

That'd be a tough starting lineup & possibly one of the best secondaries in the NFL with some very good depth at the safety positions. We could still use a little more quality depth at CB, but it sure looks like we'll be cutting some good players this year.

What do you think? Given that scenario, could Dunta play SS for us?If Dunta can't overtake Molden or Bennett, then I would be entertaining trade offers for him. His value would be at its highest for us. Contract year is why. Dunta simply isn't going to become a backup. I don't know. If he can take a starting job elsewhere in the NFL, then that's what I'd think he would want. He's a football player and he wants to play ball. I just don't see him signing a contract to remain with the Texans and as a backup.

gary
08-04-2008, 04:56 PM
If Dunta comes back and is playing close to or on the same level as he was pre-injury he's better than Molden or Bennett...

Not saying that they can't eventually be better, but they will have some catching up to do...

Dunta got caught on his fair share of times, but QB's weren't throwing it his way much because of who he was and the ability he had...Dunta was playing at a really high level last year, so assuming that he won't come back and be better than Molden or Bennett is a little naive IMO. I think folks are selling Dunta waaaay short in this thread...

That said...I'd rather move Molden to FS if Dunta proves he can come back and play corner at a high level...Molden is physical and has the big body for the position...I think he could be a really good FS and provide a lot of range and play making ability...He's still young and raw enough to where that could be an effective move...

I don't like Dunta as a safety, Free or Strong...

Even if Molden is playing at a high level..I'd rather him move to Free if Dunta can come back and be a starter...That move would make our secondary stronger than having little Dunta at FS...JMO...We have a winner.

TK_Gamer
08-04-2008, 08:04 PM
I think people are trying to make long term decisions here on a short term situation. I think Kubiak will put the best players on the field and if Dunta isnt 100% he will play nickel until he is. This will get him through the season and they will iron out his contract situation based on results of the season by all CB's involved. we allready have a starting FS so I dont see them realligning the whole secondary to suit Dunta. There is also a chance Dunta sees backup time this season until his exact condition/performance can be evaluated. my 2 cents.

ObsiWan
08-04-2008, 08:30 PM
If Dunta comes back and is playing close to or on the same level as he was pre-injury he's better than Molden or Bennett...

Not saying that they can't eventually be better, but they will have some catching up to do...

Dunta got caught on his fair share of times, but QB's weren't throwing it his way much because of who he was and the ability he had...Dunta was playing at a really high level last year, so assuming that he won't come back and be better than Molden or Bennett is a little naive IMO. I think folks are selling Dunta waaaay short in this thread...

That said...I'd rather move Molden to FS if Dunta proves he can come back and play corner at a high level...Molden is physical and has the big body for the position...I think he could be a really good FS and provide a lot of range and play making ability...He's still young and raw enough to where that could be an effective move...

I don't like Dunta as a safety, Free or Strong...

Even if Molden is playing at a high level..I'd rather him move to Free if Dunta can come back and be a starter...That move would make our secondary stronger than having little Dunta at FS...JMO...
Molden has more pure speed than Dunta which reinforces your point about his potential to have good-to-very good range.

like Gary said, "we have a winner"

Polo
08-05-2008, 10:17 AM
we allready have a starting FS so I dont see them realligning the whole secondary to suit Dunta.

Move Demps to strong....

WALA!

gary
08-05-2008, 01:20 PM
Bingo.

ubecool454
08-05-2008, 01:46 PM
If we get Dunta back to full strength, Fred like last year and Moulden playing like both of them....I think it would make more sense to try Fred or Moulden at the safety since they have larger frames and can handle the weight gain and not sacrifice speed loss.

gary
08-05-2008, 01:52 PM
They could all three guys before they move Donta.

Allstar
08-05-2008, 05:54 PM
No. Horrible idea:dangit:

^love this smiley, it's really appropriate in a lot of threads

gary
08-05-2008, 06:05 PM
All I am saying is try someone else first before they move Donta and not all in one game.

Big Lou
08-06-2008, 11:49 PM
People are already fussing about the idea of moving a 180lbs Dunta Robinson to FS, so to go even further and have the thought of him being at SS? Well that's just.....

http://www.megatonik.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/inconceivable-1.jpg

Switching Dunta to FS and putting Demps at SS would be better, imo.

I don't think that word means what yo think it means!!

My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father prepare to die!!!!!!!

How about Free Safety?!?!?!?! Thoughts?

Big Lou
08-06-2008, 11:57 PM
The best thing that could happen would be if both our young CB's develop as they show they could, and Daunta takes over the Nickle role and we can rid ourselves of Reeves.

I know this sounds crazy to some, but lets give Reeves a chance before we go cutting him. A change of scenary really helps some guys. Besides Safety's really can make Corners look like Douche Bages, and remember Big D has that Roy Williams guy.

I think he'll work out. I think coaches make a lot of difference in the secondary and in general. Remember last year when Faggins needed a Zanex to get on the field, he was broken, and Kuibiak got him some of his confidence back the way he coached him and played him. Also as much as I was pissed a Petey last year just remember him circa three years ago he wasn't too bad, definately servicble in the Nickle.

Thorn
08-07-2008, 07:43 AM
Reeves is the only off-season and/or draft move that I really question. Not that we got him, because he is helping fill a hole, but the amount of money we gave him didn't seem right. But hey, I'm ridin' high on the Smith/Kubiak bandwagon right now, so I'm not going to make a big deal of it.

I hope he does well and earns his paycheck. We'll all be better off if he does.

gary
08-07-2008, 08:39 AM
Agreed.