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texasguy346
07-23-2008, 04:27 PM
Army shatters Campbell's NFL dreams
by Philip Zaroo | MLive.com
Wednesday July 23, 2008, 4:01 PM

The Detroit Lions' seventh-round draft pick, safety Caleb Campbell, learned that he won't be able to play for the team because of a change in Army rules.
Caleb Campbell, the Detroit Lions' seventh-round pick, will not be playing for the team this year. According to a Lions press release, the U.S. Army reversed its stance that would have allowed the safety to fulfill his military obligations in Michigan had he made the Lions' roster.



link (http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/2008/07/army_shatters_campbells_nfl_dr.html)

Texan_Bill
07-23-2008, 04:44 PM
That's the price for a West Point education...

Roger Staubach (Naval Academy) and Rocky Bleier (drafted) went on to have successful careers after their respective military obligations were completed.

eriadoc
07-23-2008, 04:55 PM
That's the price for a West Point education...

Roger Staubach (Naval Academy) and Rocky Bleier (drafted) went on to have successful careers after their respective military obligations were completed.

... in an entirely different era, under different circumstances within the NFL. It's doubtful that Campbell will ever have a chance to play in the NFL again.

Hardcore Texan
07-23-2008, 04:55 PM
I know he is obligated and all that jazz, I served in the USAF and understand the commitment aspect of it. But the Army is really screwing the pooch on this one by reversing their stance. Had it been the stance all along then I would probably not say that, but to pull an about face on it's previous decision is bad publicity. They should stand behind their original decision.

This guy would make one heck of a recruiter and really advertise the Army, it would be talked about almost every time he played. In my guesstimation it would pay far greater dividends back to the Army.

As far as the cost of a West Point education, the DOD can credit every penny of my untouched 40K GI Bill to him, that would cover at least a portion of it.

Double Barrel
07-23-2008, 05:00 PM
That's the price you pay for becoming government issue. See the NSZ for further elaboration.

Texan_Bill
07-23-2008, 05:03 PM
... in an entirely different era, under different circumstances within the NFL. It's doubtful that Campbell will ever have a chance to play in the NFL again.

True enough.

But by the same token - 10 years from now, that sheepskin on his wall will still be worth a pretty penny!!!

Texan_Bill
07-23-2008, 05:08 PM
I know he is obligated and all that jazz, I served in the USAF and understand the commitment aspect of it. But the Army is really screwing the pooch on this one by reversing their stance. Had it been the stance all along then I would probably not say that, but to pull an about face on it's previous decision is bad publicity. They should stand behind their original decision.

*****************

As far as the cost of a West Point education, the DOD can credit every penny of my untouched 40K GI Bill to him, that would cover at least a portion of it.

That's a pretty good point, though.


*****************

BOOOOOOO!!!! You never used your GI Bill money?? I loved receiving my checks once a month for ~ $855.00. That was righteous money in college.

Hardcore Texan
07-23-2008, 05:13 PM
That's a pretty good point, though.


*****************

BOOOOOOO!!!! You never used your GI Bill money?? I loved receiving my checks once a month for ~ $855.00. That was righteous money in college.

I still have a 2 years to start using it. :)

Showtime100
07-23-2008, 05:17 PM
The reversal of their stance is what gets me, nothing more, just the reversal. Seems that's a less than honorable way to be while a person is making the most important choices of his life.

It sort of brings Animal House to mind where Otter tells Flounder, "You ****** up - you trusted us!"

Texan_Bill
07-23-2008, 05:24 PM
I still have a 2 years to start using it. :)

You better get on that....

Hardcore: "Honey, I'm going back to school"
Mrs. Hardcore: [laughing] "Yeah okay honey..... thats greeeeaaaaaaat!!"

Hardcore Texan
07-23-2008, 05:31 PM
You better get on that....

Hardcore: "Honey, I'm going back to school"
Mrs. Hardcore: [laughing] "Yeah okay honey..... thats greeeeaaaaaaat!!"


That's pretty much how it goes.

*heads home to search for listening device planted by TB*

SOLIS
07-23-2008, 05:35 PM
Wow - that's suprising considering how much pub the kid got. In anycase, he'll be an officer with a West Point education. He'll be just fine.

But its like the chief told us when we got activated a few years back: "If you're here, and you don't want to be here - it's because you f'ed up... this is a volunteer service, etc..."

Glad to see other vets on this board. I've been in the USAF for over ten years (6 active/4 Reserve). I'm currently an Air Reserve Technician (ART) over here at Lackland. It's a M-F government gig thats tethered to a reserve slot.

Off Topic: They are changing the GI Bill in Aug of 2009. It has some pretty good benefits for those who served post 11 Sept 01.
Check out this site for more info: Post 911 GI Bill Factsheet (http://www.gibill.va.gov/S22/Post_911_Factsheet.pdf)

texasguy346
07-23-2008, 06:02 PM
The reversal of their stance is what gets me, nothing more, just the reversal. Seems that's a less than honorable way to be while a person is making the most important choices of his life.


I've got the same issue. They look bad by reversing their position, and all indications were that Campbell might not even make the roster. So they might not have even needed to reverse their decision. Someone made a great point about him being a great asset in terms or recruiting if he had made the team. He & the Army would be talked about every time the Lions played a game. That's a lot of free advertising. I'm sure he'll be a fine officer, but he was certainly an interesting story for the short time he was in the NFL.

TexansLucky13
07-23-2008, 06:48 PM
Does Detroit get their 7th rounder back... or is this considered like a retirement and they will just retain "ownership" of him if/until he comes back?

Texan_Bill
07-23-2008, 06:57 PM
Does Detroit get their 7th rounder back... or is this considered like a retirement and they will just retain "ownership" of him if/until he comes back?

I think he would remain property of the Lions. Not 100% sure, though.

Blazing Arrow
07-23-2008, 07:02 PM
I think he would remain property of the Lions. Not 100% sure, though.

I think he is only held for one season unless he is signed.

texasguy346
07-23-2008, 07:44 PM
I think he is only held for one season unless he is signed.

I believe he's already signed because there was some question as to if he would be able to retain his signing bonus. So my guess is that the Lions will have his rights so long as they don't waive/release him. I'm guessing that the Lions will likely release him shortly since he has no chance of playing for them. I can't imagine them giving him a roster spot with the new limits.

swtbound07
07-23-2008, 10:03 PM
the army should be punched in its face. This is sad and stupid. What a dumb decision by an even dumber organization

4Texans
07-23-2008, 10:10 PM
I think he would remain property of the Lions. Not 100% sure, though.

I think the Lions hold his rights for a while. Who was the DL from Air Force that showed up on the Cowboys door step after JJ bought the team? He had been drafted during the Landry era and served out his committment before he played in the NFL. Not sure how that worked, maybe he was just a FA when they finally signed him.

PapaL
07-24-2008, 07:12 AM
Well...he had a contract before signing his NFL contract. Yeah it's kind of shitty of them to change their minds but its well within their right. Plus having grown up and my last duty station being attached to an Army unit (me being USAF); the Army could use some strong young bright leaders.

aj.
07-24-2008, 08:03 AM
The way I read it, it was a DoD policy change (not just Army).

The Lions were informed Wednesday that the Army policy of allowing cadets to play professional sports was recently superseded by a subsequent Department of Defense policy

The details of his future NFL eligibility are clearly spelled out in the article.

alphajoker
07-24-2008, 08:28 AM
That's a pretty good point, though.


*****************

BOOOOOOO!!!! You never used your GI Bill money?? I loved receiving my checks once a month for ~ $855.00. That was righteous money in college.

I still have a 2 years to start using it. :)

It's $1,251 now for full time...hey Hardcore Texan, if you don't want it, I'll glady take it since I've exhausted all of mine and I still have one year left for my Masters. ;)

Texan_Bill
07-24-2008, 08:53 AM
I think the Lions hold his rights for a while. Who was the DL from Air Force that showed up on the Cowboys door step after JJ bought the team? He had been drafted during the Landry era and served out his committment before he played in the NFL. Not sure how that worked, maybe he was just a FA when they finally signed him.

Chad Hennings??? I beleive he was a pilot in the Air Force before playing for the Gurls...

Texan_Bill
07-24-2008, 08:56 AM
It's $1,251 now for full time...

Argggggh!!! :foottap: I could have used the extra $400.00/ mo.

Grams
07-24-2008, 09:02 AM
You would think if he wanted to play in the NFL, West Point would not be his choice of schools.

He knew what the requirements of serving in the Army upon graduating West Point were before he went there.

Regardless of whether the Army changed it ruling or not. He knew 4 years ago that he would have to serve on active duty.

He decided to go to West Point, he gets to live with the results.

eriadoc
07-24-2008, 12:17 PM
Yes, but then, somewhere along the way, an opportunity knocked. The Army told him he could pursue it, thus getting his hopes up. Then they smashed that dream. That's pretty close to a textbook example of how to create a disillusioned employee/soldier/anyone. Do y'all really think he's going to be the best he can be now? Or will he just be counting time until he can get out because of the deterioration of trust? That's the real issue to me here. The guy was a 7th round draft pick for the Lions - he may not have even made the team, and if he did, it's the Lions. The most important aspect of this story, IMO, is how the Army (or DoD) handled the issue. There were ways they could have handled it that would have been far better.

If you were a high school kid following this story, would this motivate you to join the military?

Goldensilence
07-24-2008, 12:24 PM
I know he is obligated and all that jazz, I served in the USAF and understand the commitment aspect of it. But the Army is really screwing the pooch on this one by reversing their stance. Had it been the stance all along then I would probably not say that, but to pull an about face on it's previous decision is bad publicity. They should stand behind their original decision.

This guy would make one heck of a recruiter and really advertise the Army, it would be talked about almost every time he played. In my guesstimation it would pay far greater dividends back to the Army.

As far as the cost of a West Point education, the DOD can credit every penny of my untouched 40K GI Bill to him, that would cover at least a portion of it.


This was my thought as well. It's not like the army team has done much lately and the army as a whole could use some sort of recruiting boost overall right now.

Texecutioner
07-24-2008, 12:37 PM
the army should be punched in its face. This is sad and stupid. What a dumb decision by an even dumber organization

I think this is a little harsh, and you shouldn't bash out military like that.

However, I do agree with you though that it is pretty petty that they are taking away an NFL career from a guy that has worked his butt off on the field and off the field just to do some extra recruiting.

The military and the ARMY especially, has been known for doing a lot of sneaky and dishonest tactics in recruiting for a long time. I remember when I was young and in college, I had no interest in joining the military at all, but I did allow a recruiter to give me his little spill. This guy was at my college campus daily, trying to get kids out of school and into the military. When he did his spill, I was probably about 19 years old and of course a little naive, but naive enough to swallow all of the garbage lies that this guy was trying to push on me. As a grown man, when I think back on the far fetched BS this guy was telling me was pathetic. He was a really good salesman and I'm sure he was trying to hit his quota of recruits, but lying and exaggerating the youth to get into the military is wrong.

There have been numerous cases where people said they were lied to and mislead which made them decide to join the military and many have sued.

Texecutioner
07-24-2008, 12:39 PM
Yes, but then, somewhere along the way, an opportunity knocked. The Army told him he could pursue it, thus getting his hopes up. Then they smashed that dream. That's pretty close to a textbook example of how to create a disillusioned employee/soldier/anyone. Do y'all really think he's going to be the best he can be now? Or will he just be counting time until he can get out because of the deterioration of trust? That's the real issue to me here. The guy was a 7th round draft pick for the Lions - he may not have even made the team, and if he did, it's the Lions. The most important aspect of this story, IMO, is how the Army (or DoD) handled the issue. There were ways they could have handled it that would have been far better.

If you were a high school kid following this story, would this motivate you to join the military?

Very good post, and some excellent points.

moonmoon
07-24-2008, 12:44 PM
Yes good point.

Texan_Bill
07-24-2008, 03:23 PM
I'm sorry folks but you do not attend West Point without knowing the following:

Financial & Service Obligations

As a cadet, you are a member of the U.S. Army, receive a full scholarship and an annual salary from which you pay for your uniforms, textbooks, a personal computer, and incidentals. There is no tuition charge, but there is a requirement for an initial deposit. Room, board, medical, and dental care are provided by the United States Government. Upon graduation, you will be awarded a Bachelor of Science degree and a commission in the U.S. Army. In turn, you are obligated to serve five years on active duty in the U.S. Army, and three years in an inactive reserve status.

Throughout your four years at West Point, you will receive extensive military training, visit Army units and posts and graduate fully prepared to meet the exciting challenges of being an officer in today's Army.



Linkage: West Point Admissions (http://admissions.usma.edu/moreinfo/obligations.cfm)

SOLIS
07-24-2008, 03:33 PM
The oath he took to defend this country is far more important than whatever opportunity he had to play in the NFL. Service before self... always. He knew that going in. The military isn't a democracy - he doesn't get a vote. If one day they tell you that you're assignment is Hickam and the next they say, sorry son, you're headed to Minot, all you can do is grin and bear it.

The way I see at it, if he's not ready to play pro ball in two years, it wasn't meant to be.

I don't feel sorry for Campbell. The ones who are carrying bullets and field dressings... those are the ones that deserve the sentiment.

the army should be punched in its face. This is sad and stupid. What a dumb decision by an even dumber organization
You wouldn't have the balls to tell an GI that the Army he's putting his life on the line for is dumb or should be punched in the face...

Hardcore Texan
07-24-2008, 03:41 PM
The oath he took to defend this country is far more important than whatever opportunity he had to play in the NFL. Service before self... always. He knew that going in. The military isn't a democracy - he doesn't get a vote. If one day they tell you that you're assignment is Hickam and the next they say, sorry son, you're headed to Minot, all you can do is grin and bear it.

The way I see at it, if he's not ready to play pro ball in two years, it wasn't meant to be.

I don't feel sorry for Campbell. The ones who are carrying bullets and field dressings... those are the ones that deserve the sentiment.




No disagreement here, and I have heard Campbell himself say these same types of things, as well he should. He is an honorable guy, and looks forward to being an officer. What you said is accurate, you are property of the US Govt., no illusions on that one.

But it does not negate the fact that a huge opportunity was squandered by the Army or DoD, whoever's policy changed for a ton of FREE and POSITIVE publicity for the U.S. Army.

If it was the DoD's policy change and not the Army's, that let's the Army of the hook right there. IMHO the DoD should "grandfather" this guy back to what his service branch had already decided. He was still going to be Active Reserves, he could have been called up if needed let us not forget that tidbit.

If Campbell's recruiting (which was part of his deal in the offseason) inspired dozens to enlist in the service, how is that not good business?

SOLIS
07-24-2008, 03:53 PM
No disagreement here, and I have heard Campbell himself say these same types of things, as well he should. He is an honorable guy, and looks forward to being an officer. What you said is accurate, you are property of the US Govt., no illusions on that one.

But it does not negate the fact that a huge opportunity was squandered by the Army or DoD, whoever's policy changed for a ton of FREE and POSITIVE publicity for the U.S. Army.

If it was the DoD's policy change and not the Army's, that let's the Army of the hook right there. IMHO the DoD should "grandfather" this guy back to what his service branch had already decided. He was still going to be Active Reserves, he could have been called up if needed let us not forget that tidbit.

If Campbell's recruiting (which was part of his deal in the offseason) inspired dozens to enlist in the service, how is that not good business?

There was a DoD policy review and it looks like there wasn't as much leeway as the Army had thought. Nevertheless, it is what it is. The Department of Defense isn't in the business of making exceptions... its an autocratic structure that has hard and fast rules. Sure, Campbell would have been a novelty and could sparked some additional interest in the Army, but the fact remains, it wasn't within the confines of the DoD's policy. The military has never been know for being fair... just ask the guys who got sent out a week before their kid was born... or just days after. It's called sacrifice man.

Hardcore Texan
07-24-2008, 04:25 PM
There was a DoD policy review and it looks like there wasn't as much leeway as the Army had thought. Nevertheless, it is what it is. The Department of Defense isn't in the business of making exceptions... its an autocratic structure that has hard and fast rules. Sure, Campbell would have been a novelty and could sparked some additional interest in the Army, but the fact remains, it wasn't within the confines of the DoD's policy. The military has never been know for being fair... just ask the guys who got sent out a week before their kid was born... or just days after. It's called sacrifice man.

Again, not disagreeing, I still say they missed an opportunity.

Uh, I am vet, I know how the DoD works, I understand the sacrifice pretty well.

eriadoc
07-24-2008, 04:29 PM
I'm sorry folks but you do not attend West Point without knowing the following:



Linkage: West Point Admissions (http://admissions.usma.edu/moreinfo/obligations.cfm)

Bill, what I am trying to say is that he absolutely went to West Point knowing all that and being fully on board with all that. Somewhere along the way, opportunity presented itself, and the Army encouraged him to pursue that. Then, once he got well down that path, they smashed that dream. If they would have just told him No from the beginning, then it would be a different story.

That's why the diploma thing is irrelevant to my opinion on the discussion.

SOLIS
07-24-2008, 04:39 PM
Again, not disagreeing, I still say they missed an opportunity.

Uh, I am vet, I know how the DoD works, I understand the sacrifice pretty well.

No, I know you are - I am too. I wasn't saying that you didn't understand sacrifice... I was simply reminding you about it.

My point is that there really wasn't an opportunity to miss... he wasn't eligible to skip out on his active duty commitment - plain and simple. The Army should have known better, but they aren't infallible. They wanted to use him as a billboard, but couldn't get it passed the black and white. DoD shot it down. The DoD overrides service related decisions all the time - this one just got a little more publicity...

It is what it is. If the kid's good enough, in two years, he'll make a team - if not, he'll have one of the most prestigious degrees in the country to fall back on. Dude is set no matter what.

PapaL
07-24-2008, 05:11 PM
Who here hasn't had their dreams dashed and hopes crushed yet in life? Oh and throw in some sort of disappointment to the mix too.

All part of life. As he's going to learn in Iraq, "Suck it up and Press on. Mission First."

Texan_Bill
07-24-2008, 05:23 PM
Bill, what I am trying to say is that he absolutely went to West Point knowing all that and being fully on board with all that. Somewhere along the way, opportunity presented itself, and the Army encouraged him to pursue that. Then, once he got well down that path, they smashed that dream. If they would have just told him No from the beginning, then it would be a different story.

That's why the diploma thing is irrelevant to my opinion on the discussion.

Totally respect your opinion.

Mine is that Campbell's commitment came first - and I don't want my tax dollar funding someone's education so that they can play professional football without meeting their obligations to this country and to ME...

Who here hasn't had their dreams dashed and hopes crushed yet in life? Oh and throw in some sort of disappointment to the mix too.

All part of life. As he's going to learn in Iraq, "Suck it up and Press on. Mission First."

A real man would "Suck it up and Presson on"!!


Signed,

Chad Hennings USAF and Dallas Cowboy DT

Hervoyel
07-24-2008, 05:41 PM
When you go to the University of Texas or Miami then you are "going to college". When you go to West Point you are "joining the army".

Do they just not make that clear to young men and women anymore?

This is as open and shut in my eyes as anything in this world could possibly be. You don't go to West Point unless you want to be an officer in the army. What's so hard to grasp there?

Hardcore Texan
07-24-2008, 06:02 PM
No, I know you are - I am too. I wasn't saying that you didn't understand sacrifice... I was simply reminding you about it.

My point is that there really wasn't an opportunity to miss... he wasn't eligible to skip out on his active duty commitment - plain and simple. The Army should have known better, but they aren't infallible. They wanted to use him as a billboard, but couldn't get it passed the black and white. DoD shot it down. The DoD overrides service related decisions all the time - this one just got a little more publicity...

It is what it is. If the kid's good enough, in two years, he'll make a team - if not, he'll have one of the most prestigious degrees in the country to fall back on. Dude is set no matter what.


Okay.....thanks for the reminder.....I guess...:shrug:

SOLIS
07-24-2008, 06:10 PM
Okay.....thanks for the reminder.....I guess...:shrug:
You're welcome...:shrug:

ESAD2-14
07-24-2008, 07:19 PM
Wow - that's suprising considering how much pub the kid got. In anycase, he'll be an officer with a West Point education. He'll be just fine.

But its like the chief told us when we got activated a few years back: "If you're here, and you don't want to be here - it's because you f'ed up... this is a volunteer service, etc..."

Glad to see other vets on this board. I've been in the USAF for over ten years (6 active/4 Reserve). I'm currently an Air Reserve Technician (ART) over here at Lackland. It's a M-F government gig thats tethered to a reserve slot.

Off Topic: They are changing the GI Bill in Aug of 2009. It has some pretty good benefits for those who served post 11 Sept 01.
Check out this site for more info: Post 911 GI Bill Factsheet (http://www.gibill.va.gov/S22/Post_911_Factsheet.pdf)

Thanks for the link. Thats some pretty awesome benefits, I especially like the BAH thing.

About the main topic. If I was in his shoes I'd be upset. At the same time it would have always been in the back of my head that the Army would call on me to serve. Especially having been a graduate of West Point and all, that kind of seals the deal.

Double Barrel
07-24-2008, 07:28 PM
No offense to anyone intended, but I am a bit surprised that so many would be willing to make a special case for a soldier because of football, but do not feel the same about a soldier with children that is kept in service because of stop-loss orders. Priorities, 'eh?

Overalls
07-24-2008, 08:47 PM
One of my heros is Rocky Blier. If he can come back from almost having his legs blown off the run the pigskin for the Steelers, Campbell can come back in a couple of years to try out as a 7th round draft pick for the Lions. I think it could have been a good PR move for him to be a recruiter some where but try telling the kids just trying to survive that Campbell is special and he doesn't have to eat the same sand as you do because he can play football.

And yes I have been to the big sand box and no I haven't used my GI bill.


:fans:

b0ng
07-24-2008, 09:29 PM
No offense to anyone intended, but I am a bit surprised that so many would be willing to make a special case for a soldier because of football, but do not feel the same about a soldier with children that is kept in service because of stop-loss orders. Priorities, 'eh?

It's not offensive to me and I served in the Army and in Iraq during the initial invasion. I feel for the kid, and I think the DoD is full of shit with this. They don't absolutely have to have a 2LT in Iraq, they already have plenty. If they had not told him and the Lions already that he would be able to be a recruiter, then I wouldn't feel for the kid as much. But the fact that the DoD yanked the rug out from under him just reeks of some commander trying to show how far he can piss.

Again, I know it's only football, but it just goes to show that you can't really trust what the military tells you (had to deal with that a lot and it makes me mad). I hope he's safe over there, because if he gets killed and the government pulls a "Pat Tillman" you can bet there will a really pissed off family that will raise hell.

Hardcore Texan
07-24-2008, 09:59 PM
No offense to anyone intended, but I am a bit surprised that so many would be willing to make a special case for a soldier because of football, but do not feel the same about a soldier with children that is kept in service because of stop-loss orders. Priorities, 'eh?

I can't believe I wasn't Stopped-Loss myself, my career field was terribly undermanned when I seperated.

No offense taken here. And for clarification sake to all, If you look at every post I made in this thread, I was never advocating making a special case for Campbell, or not following through with his committment, or having troubel what the world "obligation" means. Please understand me when I say my one and only issue was the reversal of the stance, after being cleared to play, being allowed to participate in the draft, and all the pub it came with, being allowed to go to OTA's, etc.


When your govt. property, your govt. property. A good friend of mine that I met while I was in, served her active duty obligation got and went back to college. She got called back and activated had to drop out. She went back for a year and they were suppposed to let her out, they extended her a few more months. She got out again, went back to a different college, and they called her back again by this time she was past her original 8 year contract and still got forced into reporting, I can't remember all the details but she ended up serving beyond her committment and had to gripe her way of being let out.

One of my heros is Rocky Blier. If he can come back from almost having his legs blown off the run the pigskin for the Steelers, Campbell can come back in a couple of years to try out as a 7th round draft pick for the Lions. I think it could have been a good PR move for him to be a recruiter some where but try telling the kids just trying to survive that Campbell is special and he doesn't have to eat the same sand as you do because he can play football.

And yes I have been to the big sand box and no I haven't used my GI bill.


:fans:

I was thinking the guys serving might take a lot of pride in seeing one of their own suit it up on Sundays.

I have a lot of friends still serving and doing rotations over there, my Nephew just got back earlier in the spring from Iraq, I spent 8 months in the sandbox myself, so I understand what you are saying.

eriadoc
07-24-2008, 11:56 PM
No offense to anyone intended, but I am a bit surprised that so many would be willing to make a special case for a soldier because of football, but do not feel the same about a soldier with children that is kept in service because of stop-loss orders. Priorities, 'eh?

I think I am not coming across very clear. I don't want to make an exception for this guy. I don't really care what happens to him, beyond the fact that I hope he doesn't die in a desert somewhere across the ocean. He knew full well what he was getting into, and from what I've read, was determined to fulfill his service one way or another anyway. Good for him.

My issue is entirely with how the Army handled it. They should never have told him that he could go play football if he got drafted. That is exactly what they told him, and by doing so, they set themselves up to create a bad situation. All this guy did was ask, they said yes, and he pursued it. Now that they've reneged, he is doing what he has to do, which is fulfill his obligation.

That doesn't make what the Army did right.

Everyone is looking at this from the standpoint that he knew what he was getting into, he has to fulfill his obligation, he got an education .... yadda yadda ya. All of that is well and good, and I disagree with none of that. The Army, however, should have known what they were getting into when they gave him permission, and should have handled themselves with honor and integrity.

They didn't. That is my problem.

swtbound07
07-25-2008, 03:00 AM
The oath he took to defend this country is far more important than whatever opportunity he had to play in the NFL. Service before self... always. He knew that going in. The military isn't a democracy - he doesn't get a vote. If one day they tell you that you're assignment is Hickam and the next they say, sorry son, you're headed to Minot, all you can do is grin and bear it.

The way I see at it, if he's not ready to play pro ball in two years, it wasn't meant to be.

I don't feel sorry for Campbell. The ones who are carrying bullets and field dressings... those are the ones that deserve the sentiment.


You wouldn't have the balls to tell an GI that the Army he's putting his life on the line for is dumb or should be punched in the face...


yes, i would. The army isn't infallible, isn't god, and isn't immune from being called out on its stupidity. Screw the army . They screwed this up.

texasguy346
07-25-2008, 06:37 AM
I think I am not coming across very clear. I don't want to make an exception for this guy. I don't really care what happens to him, beyond the fact that I hope he doesn't die in a desert somewhere across the ocean. He knew full well what he was getting into, and from what I've read, was determined to fulfill his service one way or another anyway. Good for him.

My issue is entirely with how the Army handled it. They should never have told him that he could go play football if he got drafted. That is exactly what they told him, and by doing so, they set themselves up to create a bad situation. All this guy did was ask, they said yes, and he pursued it. Now that they've reneged, he is doing what he has to do, which is fulfill his obligation.

That doesn't make what the Army did right.

Everyone is looking at this from the standpoint that he knew what he was getting into, he has to fulfill his obligation, he got an education .... yadda yadda ya. All of that is well and good, and I disagree with none of that. The Army, however, should have known what they were getting into when they gave him permission, and should have handled themselves with honor and integrity.

They didn't. That is my problem.

That pretty well sums up my thoughts as well. Great post.

PapaL
07-25-2008, 06:53 AM
I think some are missing the the bigger point here, the Army didn't change it's stance; DOD changed it's policy. The Army had no choice in saying "Sorry Dude. Pack up and ship out."

DOD > Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, Coast Guard

Texan_Bill
07-25-2008, 09:50 AM
They screwed this up.

HOW??? They made a person live up to their obligations that the person agreed to PRIOR to attending West Point???

Dude should have chosen a different school if his intent was to NOT serve in the military... He's the dumbass if he thought anything different.

But let's start setting precedents for people to apply to our military academies - getting a wonderful, free education - only to bail before they live up to their end of the bargain... BRILLIANT!

Ya know... On second thought.
Let this guy out of his duty. He must be a scrub anyway being a 7th round pick. Let him fail miserably.

Hardcore Texan
07-25-2008, 09:57 AM
I think some are missing the the bigger point here, the Army didn't change it's stance; DOD changed it's policy. The Army had no choice in saying "Sorry Dude. Pack up and ship out."

DOD > Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, Coast Guard

You just had to put the Coast Guard in a smaller font didn't you? No skin off my teeth bro, we both know USAF is where it's at. *sets stage for intra branch rivalry smack talk*

Texan_Bill
07-25-2008, 09:57 AM
No offense to anyone intended, but I am a bit surprised that so many would be willing to make a special case for a soldier because of football, but do not feel the same about a soldier with children that is kept in service because of stop-loss orders. Priorities, 'eh?

You bring up some interesting points, but irrelevant to this situation. If there was a thread started over in the NSZ I might have some thoughts..... :thinking:

HOU-TEX
07-25-2008, 10:04 AM
HOW??? They made a person live up to their obligations that the person agreed to PRIOR to attending West Point???

Dude should have chosen a different school if his intent was to NOT serve in the military... He's the dumbass if he thought anything different.

But let's start setting precedents for people to apply to our military academies - getting a wonderful, free education - only to bail before they live up to their end of the bargain... BRILLIANT!

Ya know... On second thought.
Let this guy out of his duty. He must be a scrub anyway being a 7th round pick. Let him fail miserably.

For the record, Campbell knew what his obligations were and he had no reported issues. Coach Rod Marinelli said in a press conference that Caleb knew what he had to do once the decision was made and he did it.

Caleb Campbell admitted that he shed a few tears Wednesday when he learned he would be joining his fellow West Point graduates in either Afghanistan or Iraq instead of taking the field.

"When I got drafted, I told people that I was going to have the best of both worlds," Campbell told ESPN. "I was going to be in the United States Army and I was going to have a chance to play professional football. Now I have the best of one world, and I'm very positive about that. It's all going to work out. ... I'm in great shape, and I'm going to stay in great shape. I'm going to fulfill my duty to the United States Army and do what I've got to do. One day, hopefully, I'll get another opportunity to play in the NFL."

I just wanted to add that in order to make sure nobody get's the wrong idea. Caleb understands his obligations to the Army.

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1591502/20080724/id_0.jhtml

Hardcore Texan
07-25-2008, 10:12 AM
For the record, Campbell knew what his obligations were and he had no reported issues. Coach Rod Marinelli said in a press conference that Caleb knew what he had to do once the decision was made and he did it.





I just wanted to add that in order to make sure nobody get's the wrong idea. Caleb understands his obligations to the Army.

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1591502/20080724/id_0.jhtml

Thanks for posting, it should not be overlooked he has handled this whole thing the right way, with the right attitude, even though there was a policy change he is not bitter about it he's ready to serve his country and understand his commitment......just like the rest of our men and women out there enlisted or officers. :patriot

Texan_Bill
07-25-2008, 10:14 AM
You just had to put the Coast Guard in a smaller font didn't you? No skin off my teeth bro, we both know USAF is where it's at. *sets stage for intra branch rivalry smack talk*

Meh... The USAF are the Army's little 'fly boys'!! :pirate:

Hardcore Texan
07-25-2008, 10:16 AM
Meh... The USAF are the Army's little 'fly boys'!! :pirate:

Don't be too upset with us, don't forget we are the ones who bring the A/C on those long, hot deployments, y'all just suffer seperation anxiety when we are not there. :whip:

Texan_Bill
07-25-2008, 10:16 AM
For the record, Campbell knew what his obligations were and he had no reported issues. Coach Rod Marinelli said in a press conference that Caleb knew what he had to do once the decision was made and he did it.

I just wanted to add that in order to make sure nobody get's the wrong idea. Caleb understands his obligations to the Army.

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1591502/20080724/id_0.jhtml

Thank you! I can understand a mild bit of him being upset not playing in the NFL (for now) BUT his obligation comes first.

Sal Rosenberg
07-25-2008, 10:17 AM
How sad!What a terrible story.

Texan_Bill
07-25-2008, 10:18 AM
Don't be too upset with us, don't forget we are the ones who bring the A/C on those long, hot deployments, y'all just suffer seperation anxiety when we are not there. :whip:

What long, hot deployments? I spent the whole time in northern Germany... :eek: Sometimes it was too cold for your boys to even fire up the A-10's...


*and yes, we did miss y'all when y'all weren't around* :cry2:

Hardcore Texan
07-25-2008, 10:22 AM
What long, hot deployments? I spent the whole time in northern Germany... :eek: Sometimes it was too cold for your boys to even fire up the A-10's...


*and yes, we did miss y'all when y'all weren't around* :cry2:

My late brother was in the Army, he used to rave about the A-10's providing air support for them, flying at tree top levels, those were fun stories he used to tell me when I was about 8 or 9. Then when I grew up and went in the Air Force he talked smack to me.....LOL

Texan_Bill
07-25-2008, 10:27 AM
My late brother was in the Army, he used to rave about the A-10's providing air support for them, flying at tree top levels, those were fun stories he used to tell me when I was about 8 or 9. Then when I grew up and went in the Air Force he talked smack to me.....LOL

While I was infantry (an educated grunt), I served with a tank division (2nd Armored - Hell on Wheels), we appreciated the great 'tank killers' in the sky - circling for support.

Hey, what are brothers for?? LOL!! Although, I'm sure he was proud of your decision to join the USAF instead of the US Army.

eriadoc
07-25-2008, 11:37 AM
I loved the Air Force. They had great mess halls, good-looking chics in the nearby barracks, and everytime I needed to go jump out of a plane, they provided the plane.

Oh wait .... I was attached to 3rd SFG, so I only jumped 6 or 7 USAF craft. Scratch that last part ;)

The part about the mess halls and chics is true, though!

Texan_Bill
07-25-2008, 11:45 AM
I loved the Air Force. They had great mess halls, good-looking chics in the nearby barracks, and everytime I needed to go jump out of a plane, they provided the plane.

Oh wait .... I was attached to 3rd SFG, so I only jumped 6 or 7 USAF craft. Scratch that last part ;)

The part about the mess halls and chics is true, though!

Our mess hall was awesome!! Made to order omelets, etc....

But agreed about the chicks... We always sang our dirtiest chants when running through their area of our post...

Grams
07-25-2008, 11:58 AM
I think some are missing the the bigger point here, the Army didn't change it's stance; DOD changed it's policy. The Army had no choice in saying "Sorry Dude. Pack up and ship out."

DOD > Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, Coast Guard

DOD - Army, Navy , Air Force, Marines

Coast Guard use to be under DOT - now I believe it is Dept of Homeland Security.

infantrycak
07-25-2008, 12:03 PM
Coast Guard use to be under DOT - now I believe it is Dept of Homeland Security.

It is under Homeland Security during peacetime and DoD during wartime. Interestingly, we don't seem to be at war right now.

Texan_Bill
07-25-2008, 12:16 PM
The USCG transferred from the Department of Transportation to the Department of Homeland Security in 2002. The USCG does not fall under the DoD, however it can conduct operations under the DoD and the President's request.

SOLIS
07-25-2008, 12:32 PM
yes, i would. The army isn't infallible, isn't god, and isn't immune from being called out on its stupidity. Screw the army . They screwed this up.

Look - you may have a personal beef with the Army for something unrelated to this - I don't know. I understand people get bitter over some ish. I just ask that you stop and think about who you are really insulting here. I don't care if you disagree with the war, but know this - as a civilian, your rights are ensured by the same Army you are telling to go screw itself.

I never said the Army was infallable. In fact I said the opposite - read it man.


My point is that there really wasn't an opportunity to miss... he wasn't eligible to skip out on his active duty commitment - plain and simple. The Army should have known better, but they aren't infallible. They wanted to use him as a billboard, but couldn't get it passed the black and white. DoD shot it down. The DoD overrides service related decisions all the time - this one just got a little more publicity...

Now - if you want to give the Army grief because they tried to let this kid play pro ball (right or wrong) without having the authority to do so... then that's valid to a point. But the DoD didn't do anything but enforce it's own policy - a policy that the Army either misinterpreted or tried to circumvent.

Grams
07-25-2008, 12:54 PM
I haven't read much this other that some reports on the internet, but he probably talked to an officer who told him them might be able to do something for him and he took that and ran with it.

By the time that officer got with his superior, then the next and the next up the chain of command, he thought he would be able to play.

A 7th round pick has a slim chance to play anyway (yes there are exceptions), if he is good enough to play at the NFL level now, he will be able to play when the Army is done with him. Just ask Roger Staubach.