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View Full Version : [Chron]Texans still flying well under NFL radar


b0ng
07-12-2008, 09:32 PM
Link (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/headline/sports/5884342.html)

THE harsh, slap-in-the-
face reality is that America doesn't think much of Bob McNair's little NFL team.

Instead of bristling at the low profile the Texans take into training camp, which begins July 25, take joy in discovering something before the rest of the world.

Any sloth could jump on the Beatles bandwagon after they appeared on The Ed Sullivan Show. None of those John Lennon-come-latelys could possibly know the joy and fun of being in Liverpool's Cavern Club in the early 1960s.

Remember, the Texans don't get bonus points for appearances on magazine covers or buzz generated in other outposts. Why should the season-ticket holder or the faithful fan who considers a Texans game must-see television fret over any lack of respect for the Texans? The more under the radar the Texans travel, the better their chances of ambushing some of the heavy hitters on the early-season schedule.

Why hasn't this guy been writing the football articles, and not John McClain? Either way, I like the piece, and it makes for good off-season filler. I don't know about making the playoffs this year (Although that would be keen), but I do think that the over/under being at 7.5 is a little insulting. I guess that's what I get for liking all of our off-season moves.

Norg
07-13-2008, 12:01 AM
good keep it that way

but to me Most teams know who the AFC SOuth teams are and dont take them lighty

ObsiWan
07-13-2008, 12:50 AM
Did you read the "Reader's Comments"?
Dang, even after all the progress we've made, there are still some closet we-shouldda-drafted-whatshisname folks out there who will hate on our Texans until Smithiak drafts an over-hyped "Flava-or-the-year" RB or QB.

oh well, who needs 'em.

mexican_texan
07-13-2008, 01:31 AM
This guy's writing style is very similar to mine...I like it.

TexanSam
07-13-2008, 01:54 AM
Did you read the "Reader's Comments"?
Dang, even after all the progress we've made, there are still some closet we-shouldda-drafted-whatshisname folks out there who will hate on our Texans until Smithiak drafts an over-hyped "Flava-or-the-year" RB or QB.

oh well, who needs 'em.

I hate reading the reader comments on any Chronicle story. Too many naive, stupid people making idiotic statements.

beerlover
07-13-2008, 02:10 AM
go ahead then & put your money where your mouth is- take advantage of the favorable odds
30-1 odds on the Texans reaching the Super Bowl
over-under for the Texans regular season victory total at 7 1/2


I'm certainly up for the latter :thisbig: :money:

76Texan
07-13-2008, 02:26 AM
When a guy mentions a Las Vegas odd as a media member, tying in the story, I have to disregard anything he has to say.

Guy just got to find a different angle, I'm not sorry to say!

whiskeyrbl
07-13-2008, 05:20 AM
go ahead then & put your money where your mouth is- take advantage of the favorable odds
30-1 odds on the Texans reaching the Super Bowl
over-under for the Texans regular season victory total at 7 1/2


I'm certainly up for the latter :thisbig: :money:

Heck I just might drop a c-note on both of those. The return on the SB would be nice!!!

GuerillaBlack
07-13-2008, 06:56 AM
I hate reading the reader comments on any Chronicle story. Too many naive, stupid people making idiotic statements.

QFTMFT.

I hate Chron.com comments, too. It's like this people do no research at all and just post anything.

YoungTexanFan
07-13-2008, 09:18 AM
So....say I put 50 dollars on the "over" of the 7 1/2 win total. If they surpass that, what is my return?

Kaiser Toro
07-13-2008, 09:28 AM
So....say I put 50 dollars on the "over" of the 7 1/2 win total. If they surpass that, what is my return?

Probably a money line more so that odds on that one.

Texans_Chick
07-13-2008, 09:33 AM
Personally I am done with these sorts of stories. How many times can the Chronicle write the story that goes:

1. Punchline punchline punchline boy these Texans have sucked over the years.
2. Nationally nobody knows about them.
3. Hey maybe this year they turn the corner.

I have had more than one national writer tell me that one reason why the Texans don't get more national pub is that the stories that come from the Chronicle are so puffy.

ProFootballTalk does a regular link dump of NFL stories from around the league year round. They struggle to find Texans stories that are worth putting in their link dump.

Compare and contrast.

One of the best players in the NBA,Yao Ming goes down last season, and not only does the Chronicle put detailed information about the injury on their site, but they also detail what his doctors and independant doctors say about the injury.

One of the best players in the NFL, Andre Johnson goes down with a knee injury last season and it takes a while before the Chronicle even reports which knee it is.

Why should the national media take the Texans seriously when the Chronicle doesn't report on them seriously either? I'm not saying they need to cheerlead or dump on them. I am just talking doing basic reporting.

Xetuoh1836
07-13-2008, 10:06 AM
Personally I am done with these sorts of stories. How many times can the Chronicle write the story that goes:

1. Punchline punchline punchline boy these Texans have sucked over the years.
2. Nationally nobody knows about them.
3. Hey maybe this year they turn the corner.

I have had more than one national writer tell me that one reason why the Texans don't get more national pub is that the stories that come from the Chronicle are so puffy.

ProFootballTalk does a regular link dump of NFL stories from around the league year round. They struggle to find Texans stories that are worth putting in their link dump.

Compare and contrast.

One of the best players in the NBA,Yao Ming goes down last season, and not only does the Chronicle put detailed information about the injury on their site, but they also detail what his doctors and independant doctors say about the injury.

One of the best players in the NFL, Andre Johnson goes down with a knee injury last season and it takes a while before the Chronicle even reports which knee it is.

Why should the national media take the Texans seriously when the Chronicle doesn't report on them seriously either? I'm not saying they need to cheerlead or dump on them. I am just talking doing basic reporting.

TC, that post spells it out quite plainly and loud! When the only written media in the 4th largest city in the USA (thus, no competetion or competence) give the fans and city of Houston, such crap coverage of the local team, it's no wonder the "national" press ignores us!
Jabba McLame, lil Dick (in)Justice, and the bumbling baffons at the comical.com are an embarassment to Houston sports reporting. If you pry Jabba from the buffet line and lil Dick from VY atheletic supporter, maybe we could get something resembling reporting!?

aj.
07-13-2008, 10:22 AM
Part of my daily reading is redzone.org and I used to (back in '03) send the Chron Sports director (Cunningham at the time) copies of webpages showing how the Chronicle performed so miserably in terms of the volume of articles about the Texans vs other NFL cities news coverage of their teams. I was focusing on volume and not quality at the time -- quality and insight is another story .. Anyway he basically told me that I didn't know what I was talking about and to shut up and go away. They're the experts you know, and we're just fans that don't know anything. Jacksonville, Carolina and Buffalo were putting out more articles about their teams than our illustrious rag. - edit .. a quick count of the number of articles in the Florida Times Union about the Jags since June 1... [37]. The number of Chron articles about the Texans [19].

I'm sure they're 'gearing up' for a lot of coverage now with camp starting, but based on past history it's not going to be compelling reading.

I was in Cleveland on business about a month ago and the Plain Dealer had 3-4 articles in their paper every day about the Browns. Our guys were on vacation.

Chronicle coverage of the Texans is way below average in quantity and quality. I wish they had competition. Their writers have no motivation to dig for that extra fact or to write anything new and they don't realize that their institutional laziness has cheapened their products to the point where none of our 'serious' fans notice them any longer either. There are never any new angles - ever - it's the same old cookbook, quote sheet reiteration crap every year. I see articles that are boring, repetitive and lacking in passion. Manfull is a robot. McClain's blog is unreadable because he has become the figurative Verizon Guy with his network of titans and cowboys fans following him around. The columnists write so rarely that when they do decide to write something it's usually sounding off on old news or in the 'so-what, who cares about your opinion because you don't follow the team that closely anyway' category. Lance's blog is very good, but he's not a chron employee. Other than that, I think Chron sports is great.

Thank god for the ht.com news items and archive. Nick, Nick, Brooke and everyone else there do a fantastic job with that, and it's definitely become the best source for news on the team.

Mailman
07-13-2008, 10:39 AM
Compare and contrast.

One of the best players in the NBA,Yao Ming goes down last season, and not only does the Chronicle put detailed information about the injury on their site, but they also detail what his doctors and independant doctors say about the injury.

One of the best players in the NFL, Andre Johnson goes down with a knee injury last season and it takes a while before the Chronicle even reports which knee it is.


Is that a fair comparison? NFL teams are far more guarded about injuries than NBA teams, for obvious reasons.

There's plenty of criticism to heap on the Chron, "the General" and Justice in particular, but I think it's a bit of a stretch to blame the national coverage of the Texans on the Chronicle. IMO Megan Manful does a fair job of covering the team and assessing its strengths and weaknesses, but the reality is the national sports media adopted a narrative about the Houston Texans that can only be shed by the team defying the stereotypical, simplistic expectations. I don't want to defend the Chronicle's coverage because I agree that it's subpar, but that unnamed national writer's excuse won't fly, either.

Relying on the Chronicle to form an accurate impression of the team is just flat-out laziness. Watch a game and form your own impressions accordingly.

Brando
07-13-2008, 10:40 AM
I hate reading the reader comments on any Chronicle story. Too many naive, stupid people making idiotic statements.

QFTMFT.

I hate Chron.com comments, too. It's like this people do no research at all and just post anything.


Most of the comments are outsiders looking in. Most of them don't even know what's going on in the world of football. I like to read comments posted here for more logical football knowledge.


As far as the 7 1/2 O/U I'm going with the over.:thisbig:

Mailman
07-13-2008, 10:45 AM
Last year's O/U was a candy-baby bet.

I might have to call on my unsuspecting victim again.

aj.
07-13-2008, 10:56 AM
If I was a bettor, I'd be all over the 7.5 over. I think 9 wins is a good central guesstimate this year.

Xetuoh1836
07-13-2008, 11:14 AM
Is that a fair comparison? NFL teams are far more guarded about injuries than NBA teams, for obvious reasons.

There's plenty of criticism to heap on the Chron, "the General" and Justice in particular, but I think it's a bit of a stretch to blame the national coverage of the Texans on the Chronicle. IMO Megan Manful does a fair job of covering the team and assessing its strengths and weaknesses, but the reality is the national sports media adopted a narrative about the Houston Texans that can only be shed by the team defying the stereotypical, simplistic expectations. I don't want to defend the Chronicle's coverage because I agree that it's subpar, but that unnamed national writer's excuse won't fly, either.

Relying on the Chronicle to form an accurate impression of the team is just flat-out laziness. Watch a game and form your own impressions accordingly.

Interesting. Although I believe Megan Manfull to be a nice young lady/sportswriter, I could go to the AP wire/HT.com web site, and repost what was written by others! That does not make for "insightful analysis" from the local birdcage liner or the staff. What has the HOF writer/and HOF committee voting Jabba done to elevate the "national" recognition of the Texans? Yes, winning and losing brings you the publicity (both good and bad) but, when this hack spends more time on his "movie" career and assine spots on chron.video, with the equally inept AM, you get wasted ink, poor coverage, and a fan base (who might not be as "impressionable" to form an opionion, from the play on the field) to know this product/team, and what they are about.

Besides "just" watching the game, maybe an in-depth report on the new players, how the player's are coming along with the ZBS under Joe Gibbs, the safeties relating to Ray Rhodes, progress on signing our draft picks, ect...What do we get instead??? "Cooke County" hype, AM sitting on Jabba's lap for Xmas, and Jabba eating his way thru another country, with camp two weeks away!

Luckly, we have internet bloggers, who are passionate about their team and offer (free of charge, except for their time and energy) incite, answers, and reporting/analysis on all things Texans.

Buzz Bissenger be damned!

ESAD2-14
07-13-2008, 11:25 AM
QFTMFT.

I hate Chron.com comments, too. It's like this people do no research at all and just post anything.

Agreed, the comments are almost as bad writing as the actual columns/blogs themselves. Especially considering you have group of writers at the Chron that love to write negative and redundant pieces.

[You're late, my friend. I've worked for the Dallas Times Herald, Dallas Morning News and Fort Worth Star-Telegram. I've also had stints at the Austin American-Statesman, Austin Citizen, Abilene Reporter-News, Chicago Sun-Times, Baltimore Sun and Washington Post. I've turned the resignation letter into an art form. And if you're not nice to me, I'll be gone from here so fast I'll be nothing more than the closest you ever got to greatness.--Richard]

Guess who wrote that in response to one of the comments left under his blog?
Our local Negative Nancy sports writer: Dick Justice. I was always under the impression that bouncing around from job to job is a bad thing? Perhaps not in the journalism world? He does great job of pumping himself up though, I for one would not be sad to see him go. Out of all the Chron sports writers he is, to me, the least talented (not saying much).

McClain on the other hand is just a closet Titans/Cowboys fan who is drawing a paycheck from the Chron.

As always when I want the BEST information, I just stop by here.

:texflag:

nunusguy
07-13-2008, 11:30 AM
Manfull is a robot. McClain's blog is unreadable because he has become the figurative Verizon Guy with his network of titans and cowboys fans following him around. The columnists write so rarely that when they do decide to write something it's usually sounding off on old news or in the 'so-what, who cares about your opinion because you don't follow the team that closely anyway' category. Lance's blog is very good, but he's not a chron employee.

Manfull is atleast trained as a journalist in college, though her knowledge of football is very lacking, but she's learning ever so gradually. Do you think she's just basically an affirmative action hire ?
But McCain is a joke. Between Baylor, his "movie career", the Cowboys & the Titans, McClain doesn't give the Texans much coverage. And he's just a pathetic journalist. Atleast Manfull has some mechanical skills as a journalists.
And I'm with you about LZ. He is very knowledgible and has decent writing skills. I wish they would let him write full-blown articles on a regular basis in the Chronicle. I will be back to listening to him on a regular basis on 1560 with the soon to begin football season.

Mailman
07-13-2008, 11:42 AM
The greatest insult to the Chron's sports reader is the prominent role they gave Anna Megan-WhatsHerTits on their website.

bignasty
07-13-2008, 12:14 PM
I want to put some money down on the 7.5. How do you go about placing the bet?
Any suggestions

aj.
07-13-2008, 12:42 PM
Do you think she's just basically an affirmative action hire ?
.

Where did I say or allude to that? It has nothing to do with her being female. :confused: In fact, I wish Kristie Reiken and her would switch jobs because Kristie has produced more good copy than any of the locals.

I said she's a robot, meaning uninspiring, mechanical articles lacking insight and based heavily on the quote sheet. Her articles reek of 'it's a job' drudgery. I know she's the reporter and not the columnist and her articles are fact based by design, but in terms of style and content, they are generally lifeless and non-informative reads.

But my disdain for Chronicle Sports goes equal and across the board to every last one of them so don't get the idea that I'm singling her out. And she doesn't get brwonie points for having a journalism degree. I expect they all have some form of J degree or Comm or something along those lines. I don't care about their training. I care about their product and their motivation to produce that product. I quit the Chronicle several years ago mainly because of the poor sports coverage - because that was the main reason I started taking the paper anyway. After a quick scan of Chron.com sports every morning, I know I'm not missing anything.

The best Texans beat writers for the Chronic for a short period in the early days were Joseph Duarte and CT. But they put Duarte on the Big 12 and CT is now everyone's boss...

Mailman
07-13-2008, 12:48 PM
Where did I say or allude to that? It has nothing to do with her being female. :confused: In fact, I wish Kristie Reiken and her would switch jobs because Kristie has produced more good copy than any of the locals.

I said she's a robot, meaning uninspiring, mechanical articles lacking insight and based heavily on the quote sheet. Her articles reek of 'it's a job' drudgery. They are lifeless reads. My disdain for Chronicle Sports goes equal and across the board to every last one of them so don't get the idea that I'm singling her out. And she doesn't get brwonie points for having a journalism degree. I expect they all have some form of J degree or Comm or something along those lines. I don't care about their training. I care about their product and their motivation to produce that product. I quit the Chronicle several years ago mainly because of the poor sports coverage - because that was the main reason I started taking the paper anyway. After a quick scan of Chron.com sports every morning, I know I'm not missing anything.

The best Texans beat writers for the Chronic for a short period in the early days were Joseph Duarte and CT. But they put Duarte on the Big 12 and CT is now everyone's boss...

W I CT?

aj.
07-13-2008, 12:51 PM
Sorry ..... Carlton Thompson.

barrett
07-13-2008, 12:52 PM
is it possible that the chronicle doesn't offer much more in depth coverage because their readership doesn't require it? i live in austin so i don't know what it's like there locally as far as news coverage on the texans is concerned. television, print, radio etc.. i check NFL.com, Chron.com, HT.com, TexansTalk.com and then 610.com daily to get my news. even though i know that Texans Talk will ALWAYS have the most updated info i like to get the other media sorces as well. Then come here for everyones analysis. i know that i check in on the 610 site regularly to see if they have interviewed a member of the texans. i'm always excited about it when they do even though it's the same old mumbo jumbo any sports interview includes.

no doubt there is better coverage of the texans in houston than in austin, BUT, perhaps houston just isn't that enthusiastic about the texans. maybe as a city houston is less interested than some other cities. i know austin is a town that shows little intrest in sports other than the longhorns and even that is not what i would think from a "sports town". it's just not a "sports town". i think houston is but then again, i have season tickets, i go to the games, i don't see the people in the stands. the ones i do see aren't very enthusiastic. maybe it's just not part of the culture there. in turn, perhaps the sports writing is not very enthusiastic either. or is it visa versa?

barrett
07-13-2008, 12:54 PM
Where did I say or allude to that? It has nothing to do with her being female. :confused: In fact, I wish Kristie Reiken and her would switch jobs because Kristie has produced more good copy than any of the locals.

I said she's a robot, meaning uninspiring, mechanical articles lacking insight and based heavily on the quote sheet. Her articles reek of 'it's a job' drudgery. They are generally lifeless reads.

But my disdain for Chronicle Sports goes equal and across the board to every last one of them so don't get the idea that I'm singling her out. And she doesn't get brwonie points for having a journalism degree. I expect they all have some form of J degree or Comm or something along those lines. I don't care about their training. I care about their product and their motivation to produce that product. I quit the Chronicle several years ago mainly because of the poor sports coverage - because that was the main reason I started taking the paper anyway. After a quick scan of Chron.com sports every morning, I know I'm not missing anything.

The best Texans beat writers for the Chronic for a short period in the early days were Joseph Duarte and CT. But they put Duarte on the Big 12 and CT is now everyone's boss...


were they more insiteful 6 years ago? has their coverage curtailed as the texans chances of winning football did aswell?

aj.
07-13-2008, 12:57 PM
is it possible that the chronicle doesn't offer much more in depth coverage because their readership doesn't require it? ...

no doubt there is better coverage of the texans in houston than in austin, BUT, perhaps houston just isn't that enthusiastic about the texans. maybe as a city houston is less interested than some other cities. i know austin is a town that shows little intrest in sports other than the longhorns and even that is not what i would think from a "sports town". it's just not a "sports town". i think houston is but then again, i have season tickets, i go to the games, i don't see the people in the stands. the ones i do see aren't very enthusiastic. maybe it's just not part of the culture there. in turn, perhaps the sports writing is not very enthusiastic either. or is it visa versa?


It's because there's no competition in the local print media. When the Post was in business you bet it was different.

nunusguy
07-13-2008, 01:17 PM
Where did I say or allude to that? It has nothing to do with her being female. :confused: In fact, I wish Kristie Reiken and her would switch jobs because Kristie has produced more good copy than any of the locals.
I said she's a robot, meaning uninspiring, mechanical articles lacking insight and based heavily on the quote sheet. Her articles reek of 'it's a job' drudgery. I know she's the reporter and not the columnist and her articles are fact based by design, but in terms of style and content, they are generally lifeless and non-informative reads.


Don't be so defensive, your PCness remains intact, pure and unblemished as far as I'm concerned. I did not nor do I now claim you thought she was an A-A hire, I wondered about it myself and was only wondering what you thought about it ? That's all.
And if her articles about football in the Chronicle aren't any good, its probably because she doesn't know much about the sport and cares even less about it. She probably didn't want to be the "guy" on the NFL beat, but jumped at the chance to come down here and work for the Chronicle since her boyfriend was (and still is of course), here in Houston working for the Chronicle.

ESAD2-14
07-13-2008, 02:51 PM
i go to the games, i don't see the people in the stands. the ones i do see aren't very enthusiastic. maybe it's just not part of the culture there. in turn, perhaps the sports writing is not very enthusiastic either. or is it visa versa?

Hopefully that will change when the Texans start putting up some winning seasons. I know when the Oilers were making the playoffs in the 90's and the Luv Ya Blue era The Dome was full and the crowd was loud. I have a feeling that when the Texans consistently win the fans will show up.

Is the Houston Chronicle any different from other cities in that it hires any sports coverage writer that turns in a resume? Or do other newspapers actually try and hire people from the regional area that are actually fans/supporters of the teams they cover?

barrett
07-13-2008, 03:32 PM
so during that era when the oilers were in the playoffs what was the press coverage like?

aj.
07-13-2008, 04:06 PM
so during that era when the oilers were in the playoffs what was the press coverage like?

Press coverage was all we had and that's part of the point. The internet wasn't around during LYB and barely getting a foothold in mainstream America beyond 56k dialup when the Oilers lost to KC in the early 90's. Print media is all we used to have and rely on, along with some talk radio. When Houston had two newspapers, the overall coverage was much better, even during the sucky years (I see where you're going with that...)

I'm waiting for print media to transform to all-internet and for the local news monopolies - like what we have with the Chronicle - to die so things can open up for multiple competitive local (non-tv or radio, i.e., internet) news sources. But the medium will have to look much different than it does today since there's only so many ways you can bring people the news weather and sports and make money.

ATXtexanfan
07-13-2008, 04:14 PM
who cares about the CHRON coverage? this site is all you need!!!!!!!! hell, we broke down benson to houston like it was really gonna happen. the internet is a wonderful thing.

barrett
07-13-2008, 04:18 PM
i used to work in television news and i can assure you that if it doesn't make money then it doesn't matter. period. the content is completely secondary to the bottom line.(which goes against anything that i just asked about the chronicle's viewership).

i don't know if the dinosaurs will die. they will probably just evolve. (see at&t etc.) sadly, Chron.com will probably continue to be the main source for some time. thank goodness we have this forum. who started this thing anyway? was it vinny? whoever it was, godbless'em.

go Texans.

ObsiWan
07-13-2008, 04:38 PM
i used to work in television news and i can assure you that if it doesn't make money then it doesn't matter. period. the content is completely secondary to the bottom line.(which goes against anything that i just asked about the chronicle's viewership).

i don't know if the dinosaurs will die. they will probably just evolve. (see at&t etc.) sadly, Chron.com will probably continue to be the main source for some time. thank goodness we have this forum. who started this thing anyway? was it vinny? whoever it was, godbless'em.

go Texans.

I second that!!

aj.
07-13-2008, 04:47 PM
Don't be so defensive, your PCness remains intact, pure and unblemished as far as I'm concerned. I did not nor do I now claim you thought she was an A-A hire, I wondered about it myself and was only wondering what you thought about it ? .

I'm not being defensive, just wondering how you could play the affirmative action card off my post. I don't follow your PC comment, but to answer your question, I have no idea, nor do I care whether she was an affirmative action hire. I'm guessing she wasn't, but I do know that's not something that crossed my mind. Hell, the fact that she was a 'female journalist' never crossed my mind, at least in this discussion, until you brought it up. Anyway, again, my dislike for Chronicle Sports is institutional more than it is individual. I think I'll bow out now since the return on investment on this thread is already in the red.

thank goodness we have this forum. who started this thing anyway?

It was Kevin, aka Hookem Horns' gift to Texans fandom.

MEGA SWATT
07-13-2008, 05:14 PM
who cares about the Houston chronicle


bring on the season, its kinda boring around here:gun:

nunusguy
07-13-2008, 05:43 PM
I have no idea, nor do I care whether she was an affirmative action hire. I'm guessing she wasn't, but I do know that's not something that crossed my mind. Hell, the fact that she was a 'female journalist' never crossed my mind
Aw, see you just totally sold out to the PC mentality. Plus that's a really ingenuous thing to say. How could a woman's gender who covers NFL football possibly not be in the coversation ? That is, if we're going to have a really frank, open discussion ?

aj.
07-13-2008, 06:10 PM
Aw, see you just totally sold out to the PC mentality. Plus that's a really ingenuous thing to say.?

wtf are you talking about? (rhetorical question)

How could a woman's gender who covers NFL football possibly not be in the coversation ?

How could it not be in the conversation? Maybe when the topic is (at least in my view) about the poor coverage by her employer in general and not about NFL beat writers who happen to be women? I don't know - you tell me - you keep bringing the gender thing back into the discussion so I guess it's a hot button for you or you have issues with women in sports media, or both. I don't. I have issues with crappy reporting and poor local coverage. If you're looking for a sucker to bait, you might want to look elsewhere.

b0ng
07-13-2008, 09:11 PM
Wow. You guys took this thread places, way to go. As much as I dislike the sportswriters at the chron as well, they still are the major news media IN Houston. I liked this article, and not everybody has to, but it's just filler for the offseason.

My parents and I do not like the sportswriters for the Chronicle, but for different reasons. I think the new generation (Meagan-Raley, Manful, others that have not been there for more than 5 years) sucks, and it does not look like it will improve at all. They don't like McClain because he's always been a lazy sportswriter who is full of himself. I hate that I have to listen to McClain sound like perverted old man who can barely breathe through his mouth, just to get some Texans news on the radio. They hate having to read his garbage to get news, or that he leaves and goes on vacation right at draft time and whatnot.

LZ is pretty good, but he's looking more like the exception than the rule.

I still liked this article :kingkong:

Sal Rosenberg
07-13-2008, 09:16 PM
JEROME SOLOMON is terrible.

beerlover
07-14-2008, 12:18 AM
man this is bad & its the off season. everyone now take a break :tiphat:

False Start
07-14-2008, 12:29 AM
All of the Chronic sports writers are whack IMO, especially Dick and fatty McClain . That was a cool piece though. If I ever wanna know something Texans related, I stop by this joint . :cool:

mexican_texan
07-14-2008, 01:57 AM
All of the Chronic sports writers are whack IMO, especially Dick and fatty McClain . That was a cool piece though. If I ever wanna know something Texans related, I stop by this joint . :cool:
My Lord, I am immature.

Texans_Chick
07-14-2008, 09:13 AM
Is that a fair comparison? NFL teams are far more guarded about injuries than NBA teams, for obvious reasons.

There's plenty of criticism to heap on the Chron, "the General" and Justice in particular, but I think it's a bit of a stretch to blame the national coverage of the Texans on the Chronicle. IMO Megan Manful does a fair job of covering the team and assessing its strengths and weaknesses, but the reality is the national sports media adopted a narrative about the Houston Texans that can only be shed by the team defying the stereotypical, simplistic expectations. I don't want to defend the Chronicle's coverage because I agree that it's subpar, but that unnamed national writer's excuse won't fly, either.

Relying on the Chronicle to form an accurate impression of the team is just flat-out laziness. Watch a game and form your own impressions accordingly.

The Chronicle knew what knee it was, they just didn't report it when the news originally was out. All that was reported originally was knee sprain.

Then it was reported publicly that he had a sprained MCL/PCL. The club didn't talk too much about the recovery. At this point, maybe if the Chronicle took the Texans coverage seriously, they would have talked to docs to find out about the nature of this injury.

One national columnist asked me what the deal was with the Chronicle writing the "Matt Schaub is a leader" article over and over again. And then he gave me a WTF about the Big Bad Schaub video. I had to explain that McClain was not the Texans beat writer, that he was an NFL writer and that he has got to the point in his career what he doesn't care what people think about what he does.

Most papers have at least one go to columnist who knows everything there is to know about the team and writes everything a fan needs to know in both facts and analysis of the team. They don't really have that person. Manfull writes basic factual information but is not a columnist. McClain knows the most about the short history of the Texans, but he isn't focused on writing just about the team. Justice, Solomon and Campbell dabble in it as generalist writers often do. Often what they write is so generalized that it is pretty much filler (or has inaccuracies in it).

Vinny
07-14-2008, 09:23 AM
Most papers have at least one go to columnist who knows everything there is to know about the team and writes everything a fan needs to know in both facts and analysis of the team. They don't really have that person. Manfull writes basic factual information but is not a columnist. McClain knows the most about the short history of the Texans, but he isn't focused on writing just about the team. Justice, Solomon and Campbell dabble in it as generalist writers often do. Often what they write is so generalized that it is pretty much filler (or has inaccuracies in it).agreed on Manfull, and imo McClain's best work is when he gathers opinions from other insiders and not when he gives his personal insight. Justice & Solomon dive too deeply into blog style rants to take them too seriously sometimes. It's like they are more worried about reaction than content.

Texans_Chick
07-14-2008, 09:42 AM
Wow. You guys took this thread places, way to go. As much as I dislike the sportswriters at the chron as well, they still are the major news media IN Houston. I liked this article, and not everybody has to, but it's just filler for the offseason.

My parents and I do not like the sportswriters for the Chronicle, but for different reasons. I think the new generation (Meagan-Raley, Manful, others that have not been there for more than 5 years) sucks, and it does not look like it will improve at all. They don't like McClain because he's always been a lazy sportswriter who is full of himself. I hate that I have to listen to McClain sound like perverted old man who can barely breathe through his mouth, just to get some Texans news on the radio. They hate having to read his garbage to get news, or that he leaves and goes on vacation right at draft time and whatnot.

LZ is pretty good, but he's looking more like the exception than the rule.

I still liked this article :kingkong:

Meh on the article.

THE harsh, slap-in-the-face reality is that America doesn't think much of Bob McNair's little NFL team.

No offense intended, you can almost certainly rest assured. The Texans, after all, have mustered up less offense in their six-season existence than the local soccer team did in unveiling the name Houston 1836.

I guess he didn't watch the Texans offense at all last season. It was actually the defense that had bigger issues. But don't let that get in the way of a really lame joke.

Mario Williams isn't Stupor Mario anymore; he's Super Mario all the way, with 11 sacks in his past nine games.

He was only "Stupor Mario" because the Chronicle wanted to gloss him that because they wanted someone else picked. Mario Williams, playing through a painful foot problem his rookie year that eventually required him to receive two injections a game, is the only member of the line his rookie year that started all 16 games. The only one. That ain't showing up in a Chronicle article.

The Chronicle have written variations of this article before. There are a million different more relevant articles that could be written about the team. Things that say more than the rest of the world doesn't think much about the Texans.

Actually, most of the national articles this year seem to say things along the lines of man, the Texans are building something good, too bad they play in the AFC South. But why would he write something like that because he wouldn't be able to bust out his futility humor?

The article was recycled garbage and a waste of space. The line in Vegas is not what Vegas thinks will happen. It is what they believe will move people to bet.

The reality is that the majority of Houstonians only get their Texans news from the Chronicle. Not from HT.com or here or national sources. From the Chronicle. It's too bad that they waste their column space on stuff like this.

SheTexan
07-14-2008, 09:46 AM
After this coming season I bet we see them ALL start fighting over who's gonna be the "go to" writer. All we need is a really good season for all those knucklehead's to get their act together. IMHO, they should all be ashamed of themselves for the subpar crap they have written for some of the best football fans in the country to read!! It's an insult to all of us for them to think they can just cover the surface and not get down to the nitty gritty!! We are smarter than that!!

WE DESERVE BETTER!!!!!!!!!:fans:

Texans_Chick
07-14-2008, 09:52 AM
LZ is pretty good, but he's looking more like the exception than the rule.

I wanted to add that LZ is the only one that treats covering the Texans like all NFL teams should be covered. I might not always agree on his analysis, but he tries finding out information, and talks about strengths and weaknesses. If he jokes about the team, it isn't lame punchline humor, it is more specific to what are issues with the team--like the propaganda machine with Texans Pravda, or the time he clowned the way the Texans were making the defensive linemen run in and out of games at the beginning of the 2006 season.

But LZ, is just a blogger for the Chronicle and contributes to the fantasy football stuff in the real paper. What the Chronicle doesn't get is that there are a bunch of national people who follow the Texans, if just for fantasy information. Writing puffy right brained pieces about the team isn't filling that information gap.

Vinny
07-14-2008, 09:56 AM
I'm a big fan of LZ and it's a shame that he does the best job of critical analysis (not supposed to be a backhanded compliment Lance)....I mean, he's the starving unpaid intern amongst that group.

beerlover
07-14-2008, 10:03 AM
I'm a big fan of LZ and it's a shame that he does the best job of critical analysis (not supposed to be a backhanded compliment Lance)....I mean, he's the starving unpaid intern amongst that group.

I'm a big LZ fan he also posts here adding intelligence & insight into the Texans, Draft & generally all things NFL. :mshadows:

nunusguy
07-14-2008, 10:11 AM
I'm a big fan of LZ and it's a shame that he does the best job of critical analysis (not supposed to be a backhanded compliment Lance)....I mean, he's the starving unpaid intern amongst that group.
My sentiments exactly. Isn't there a more prominent place for LZ in the local
hierarchy of NFL media members ? I dunno what he makes, but is a greater
compensation opportunity available at the Chronicle ? He's interested, very knowledgible, and could learn the mechanics of writing.
Justice has his moments but he's a MLB guy and huge Cowboys fan who really
has little inclination to cover the local NFL team.
Speaking of the Cowboys, can any analysis of national coverage of the Texans be complete without considering the prominence and burden/challenge of sharing the region with the states other NFL team ?

ObsiWan
07-14-2008, 01:31 PM
What ever happened to Dale Robertson? Does he not cover NFL football any longer or did Pastorini make him give that up?

Texans_Chick
07-14-2008, 02:35 PM
What ever happened to Dale Robertson? Does he not cover NFL football any longer or did Pastorini make him give that up?

He's been doing a lot of tennis and a few feature articles here or there. He pitched in with some NFL stuff last year that actually contained information that I wasn't aware of. He was the first to break the information about when Andre Johnson was really coming back--though it was sort of said in an offhand way.

nero THE zero
07-14-2008, 02:40 PM
I'd also like to echo the sentiment on LZ. He's the best football guy Houston has, by far.

I often wonder what could be done to create some competition for the Chron. I know the Houston Press has started covering the Texans a little bit, but their coverage isn't really substantive and they're not a "real" newspaper. I've found that I've even stopped looking at the Chron for Texans' information because of how disappointing it is. I'll checkout HT.com for their coverage (though I wish they would do more stuff in print) and check out here for the collection of national stuff.

I'm basically starving for some legitimate local coverage, but I guess the chances of that ever happening are nill.

Texans_Chick
07-14-2008, 02:51 PM
I'm a big fan of LZ and it's a shame that he does the best job of critical analysis (not supposed to be a backhanded compliment Lance)....I mean, he's the starving unpaid intern amongst that group.

I think if he actually worked for the Chronicle, he wouldn't be able to read advertisements on his station. The Chronicle TV guy who I like, David Barron had something on that a while back as it related to Solomon and the Chronicle policy toward their sports guys on the radio. Something like they can't work over a certain number of hours a day, they have to say something like "Richard Justice of the Houston Chronicle" and they can't do the advertising read for their sponsors...sponsors pay more for the host reading their content.

But ultimately, out of the people working at the Chronicle, who would you trust to get a non-Pravda X and O discussion from? Like discussing the prospects for different guys battling for the linebacking position around DeMeco? Or saying something like WTH, look where Marlon Greenwood ranks on Texans salary cap numbers? That's not Manfull's job. And McClain is more..."this is what people tell me."

I'd like to hear more of "this is what I'm seeing and this is what is concerning me" sort of talk. I don't trust a lot of this sort of information from the Chronicle because I don't think they have X and O guys, but more let's be provocative peeps. Even in November of last year, Justice was saying in his blog comments that Williams playing "terrible" and was doing a really good imitation of a sixth round pick (http://www.fanhouse.com/2007/11/14/mario-williams-reggie-bush-vince-young-evaluating-the-top-of/). The defense has had all sorts of bad bad problems, and Mario Williams shouldn't have been considered a part of that problem. If you can't trust the Chronicle people about something just that basic, what can you trust them about?

nero THE zero
07-14-2008, 03:03 PM
I'd like to hear more of "this is what I'm seeing and this is what is concerning me" sort of talk. I don't trust a lot of this sort of information from the Chronicle because I don't think they have X and O guys, but more let's be provocative peeps. Even in November of last year, Justice was saying in his blog comments that Williams playing "terrible" and was doing a really good imitation of a sixth round pick (http://www.fanhouse.com/2007/11/14/mario-williams-reggie-bush-vince-young-evaluating-the-top-of/). The defense has had all sorts of bad bad problems, and Mario Williams shouldn't have been considered a part of that problem. If you can't trust the Chronicle people about something just that basic, what can you trust them about?

I agree, I think this is one of the big problems the Chron has. I don't know how other papers do it, but Justice is the perfect example of how Chron articles are really more emotive than analytical. I think listening to his show on 1560 is really telling of his shortcomings as a writer for the Chron. He is terribly knowlegable about baseball, but he has serious shortcomings when it comes to other sports. You can listen to him interview people and then simply relay it in his articles with the obligatory dramatic spin. I don't think he understands the sport, so he just takes what other people say and exagerates it. The Mario Williams thing is the perfect example; he would simply parrot what seemed to be the popular opinion at the time instead of breaking down strengths, weaknesses, and formulating some sort of unique analysis.

That's where they could really use an LZ-esque writer who has a background in the sport, connections with scouts and coaches, and a mind of his own.

nunusguy
07-14-2008, 03:16 PM
The Mario Williams thing is the perfect example; he would simply parrot what seemed to be the popular opinion at the time instead of breaking down strengths, weaknesses, and formulating some sort of unique analysis.
That's where they could really use an LZ-esque writer who has a background in the sport, connections with scouts and coaches, and a mind of his own.

Everybody crucified the Texans for the Mario pick up until the 2007 season,
including LZ. The only media person I know of, locally or outside of Houston who has consistantl supported
the pick, was ESPNs Michael Smith.
But if you listen to 1560, you know that Justice bags some big names to interview, like #1 NFL Draft guru Rich Gosselin of the DMNs. Of course I will admit its been just lately that Justice doesn't all but apologize to Gosselin,
who of course like Justice is a Cowboys supporter, about asking him questions
about our "little NFL team" here in Houston.
But again, yea LZ is the local authority on the NLF, though the guy they've got in the afternoon on 1560 seems knowledgible also.

nero THE zero
07-14-2008, 03:39 PM
Everybody crucified the Texans for the Mario pick up until the 2007 season,
including LZ. The only media person I know of, locally or outside of Houston who has consistantl supported
the pick, was ESPNs Michael Smith.
But if you listen to 1560, you know that Justice bags some big names to interview, like #1 NFL Draft guru Rich Gosselin of the DMNs. Of course I will admit its been just lately that Justice doesn't all but apologize to Gosselin,
who of course like Justice is a Cowboys supporter, about asking him questions
about our "little NFL team" here in Houston.
But again, yea LZ is the local authority on the NLF, though the guy they've got in the afternoon on 1560 seems knowledgible also.

John Harris?

He's supposed to be a walking encyclopedia of football, but I never get a chance to listen to him. I think he keeps up a blog though.

Texans_Chick
07-14-2008, 10:06 PM
John Harris?

He's supposed to be a walking encyclopedia of football, but I never get a chance to listen to him. I think he keeps up a blog though.

I like John Harris a ton. He's been watching OTAs. What I like about him is that he will tell you what he thinks of things but doesn't say that this is the only way to think about it. He will say why he thinks the way he does so you don't have to be thinking....uh where you pull that one out of. He gives you things to think about but doesn't pretend that his point of view is the only one.

He has a background as a coach, and when he is watching practice, he isn't doing it just to gossip.

In other words, he is a football guy who can talk about more than just the big name positions on the team. Everyone likes to talk QB or maybe high profile players. He's interested in the team in its entirety.

nunusguy
07-15-2008, 09:06 AM
I like John Harris a ton. He's been watching OTAs. What I like about him is that he will tell you what he thinks of things but doesn't say that this is the only way to think about it. He will say why he thinks the way he does so you don't have to be thinking....uh where you pull that one out of. He gives you things to think about but doesn't pretend that his point of view is the only one.

He has a background as a coach, and when he is watching practice, he isn't doing it just to gossip.

In other words, he is a football guy who can talk about more than just the big name positions on the team. Everyone likes to talk QB or maybe high profile players. He's interested in the team in its entirety.
Yea, that's the guy. And will he ever tell you his opinion !
For those who followed him on this years Draft and his remarks re the Texans picks, you know 2 basic things: (1) he was fairly supportive of their picks in general, with one glaring exception (2) I can't recall anybody coming down so hard on a Texans first round pick as he did of the choice of OT Duane Brown at #26 overall. And that certainly includes the pick of Mario in '06. Even for those wanting VY or RB instead of Mario, most acknowledged that Mario was the consensus top D player in the Draft, and therefor atleast a top 5 guy.
But Harris didn't even think D. Brown was worthy of being picked in the first 3 rounds ! And that's cool, because Harris obvioulsy knows his stuff as TC said, and he even talked about attending the East-West Shrine game/practices here in Houston a few months before the Draft where Brown played, citing specific reasons why he had such profound reservations about the pick. So I'm really looking forward to what he has to say about Brown and his progress as we get into TC.