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ChampionTexan
07-11-2008, 04:31 PM
Three days after a conference call with Green Bay Packers team officials on Tuesday in which quarterback Brett Favre emphatically expressed his desire to play in 2008, Favre on Friday formally asked for his contractual release from the Packers in a letter, sources close to Favre and the team said.

Cook's letter did suggest that Favre's accomplishments for the franchise merited the team honoring his request to be released, also asking that the action be taken "with no strings attached." Favre does not want to be traded, sources said, because he wants the freedom of choice to play for any other franchise.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3483521

So what do you do now if you're the Packers?

hobie
07-11-2008, 04:48 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3483521

So what do you do now if you're the Packers?

Shut the franchise down....this has turned into a circus....enough already !!!

Carr Bombed
07-11-2008, 04:51 PM
Retirement can't even save you from the Madden curse..........seriously this is getting unreal.

HOU-TEX
07-11-2008, 04:56 PM
Shut the franchise down....this has turned into a circus....enough already !!!

I'm beginning to agree!

The thing I truly don't understand is why would he want to play for another team. The odds are any team that would need his services likely sucks anyway.

IMO, the Vikings and Tampa would really be the only two he might be able to take deep in the PO's.

Blazing Arrow
07-11-2008, 04:59 PM
Titans and let Young sit on the bench another season. :thinking:

Everyone gets a ring everyone is happy ... less the Texans. :gun:

Specnatz
07-11-2008, 05:02 PM
Titans and let Young sit on the bench another season. :thinking:

Everyone gets a ring everyone is happy ... less the Texans. :gun:

But I thought VY was a winner and he could do it all by himself.
Actually VY is not a winner he is a :hobie:

Kaiser Toro
07-11-2008, 05:03 PM
Release for nothing? He is crazy.

If I were the GB brass I would give it to him in another four months - equitable in that he waited that long to change his mind. Moreover, I would put in conditions that the NFC is off-limits and perhaps even look who is in the AFC rotation for who the NFC North plays next year and not allow him to go to any of those teams either. Crazy is, as crazy does.

This is finance, not the warm and fuzzies anymore.

Blazing Arrow
07-11-2008, 05:04 PM
But I thought VY was a winner and he could do it all by himself.
Actually VY is not a winner he is a :hobie:

Those words have not come out of my mouth. I have said that the team wins with him but never him alone.

Come on you know if he came here you would shat a brick. That would also mean we had back to back Madden covers.

Goldensilence
07-11-2008, 05:18 PM
I'm beginning to agree!

The thing I truly don't understand is why would he want to play for another team. The odds are any team that would need his services likely sucks anyway.

IMO, the Vikings and Tampa would really be the only two he might be able to take deep in the PO's.

Chicago would make a lot of sense. If the defense can get healthy again and with the addition of Forte being able to run the ball effectively could get them back to the team they were when they made it to the SB. Brett Favre or ..... Rex Grossman? Not much there.

I feel for GB management. They can't keep dealing with the retirement question every year TC rolls around and rightfully feel the need to move on after what they felt was it. If they do grant him his release it looks very likely not only could he still be in the NFC but a division foe.

ChampionTexan
07-11-2008, 05:21 PM
Release for nothing? He is crazy.

If I were the GB brass I would give it to him in another four months - equitable in that he waited that long to change his mind. Moreover, I would put in conditions that the NFC is off-limits and perhaps even look who is in the AFC rotation for who the NFC North plays next year and not allow him to go to any of those teams either. Crazy is, as crazy does.

This is finance, not the warm and fuzzies anymore.

So if it's finance, why do you keep him around until his 8-figure annual salary becomes guaranteed before you release him? Also, how do you propose getting him to agree to those conditions - what leverage do you have?

Double Barrel
07-11-2008, 05:25 PM
I like Favre, but this is getting goofy.

And he's tempting fate! I know he probably hated to end his career on an INT, but at least retiring after an NFC Championship game is better than being forced to end your career because of injury.

Titans and let Young sit on the bench another season. :thinking:

Everyone gets a ring everyone is happy ... less the Texans. :gun:

yeah, that would be good for the confidence of a young QB. :ok: or maybe not...

But I wouldn't care if he was a Titan. Mario would probably find it easier to catch Favre than Young anyway.

drewmar74
07-11-2008, 05:33 PM
I like Favre, but this is getting goofy.

And he's tempting fate! I know he probably hated to end his career on an INT, but at least retiring after an NFC Championship game is better than being forced to end your career because of injury.

But I wouldn't care if he was a Titan. Mario would probably find it easier to catch Favre than Young anyway.

QFT, all three points.

I just can't see him really going anywhere outside of his division where his services would be an upgrade AND he would be playing on a contender. Minnesota, Chicago.... maybe Carolina but do you really think Delhomme is going to sit quietly on the bench?

I dunno. This whole deal is a mess. I wish he'd just sit down and not pull a Johnny Unitas / Joe Namath / Joe Montana.

Kaiser Toro
07-11-2008, 05:33 PM
So if it's finance, why do you keep him around until his 8-figure annual salary becomes guaranteed before you release him? Also, how do you propose getting him to agree to those conditions - what leverage do you have?

His 11.4 salary cap number is off the books regardless as of April when he went on the reserve-retirement list. He has no leverage and stated what he wants. The entity who controls his rights now has all the leverage by granting the unconditional release under x, y, z, especially in the court of public opinion.

Favre's agent still has not requested for him to be re-instated with the NFL office. That is why I would act fast and have an equitable offer on the table. If he gets re-instated then the Packers I believe would have to assume the salary cap hit, but then what kind of value is that to any of them in a trade as no one will assume that contract and we will back to where we were a few months ago and Favre goes down in history with a somewhat less shiny reputation.

Drew_Smoke
07-11-2008, 05:44 PM
If I am Packer fan and they won't let him come back I am FURIOUS!!!

c5demon
07-11-2008, 05:45 PM
Any chance we can bring him here and split downs with Matt? It would cause HAVOC on opposing defense.Ticket sales would go thru the roof!

eriadoc
07-11-2008, 05:50 PM
If I'm the Pack, I bring him back and make him hold a clipboard and teach Rodgers. If he can't handle that, he can stay in Mississippi.

Mr teX
07-11-2008, 05:52 PM
What he really just needs to do is just sit his ass down somewhere. i mean damn i'm so sick of watching NFLTA & them asking every single guest if they think favre is coming back..... & then digging for any little source & trying to make a story out of it. "this it what favre's barber had to say......"

Kaiser Toro
07-11-2008, 05:52 PM
Any chance we can bring him here and split downs with Matt? It would cause HAVOC on opposing defense.Ticket sales would go thru the roof!

Ticket scalping would go though the roof as ticket sales are fine. It would increase our cap and cause disharmony in the locker room.

Mr teX
07-11-2008, 05:53 PM
If I'm the Pack, I bring him back and make him hold a clipboard and teach Rodgers. If he can't handle that, he can stay in Mississippi.

That's what i think needs to happen, there's just the little matter of 12 million dollars for a back up Qb issue....

PapaL
07-11-2008, 05:56 PM
So if it's finance, why do you keep him around until his 8-figure annual salary becomes guaranteed before you release him? Also, how do you propose getting him to agree to those conditions - what leverage do you have?

Signing Bonuses to be repaid and such. Hit him in the wallet. The guy has serious issues.

My spideysense says he's going to get hurt this year...

Porky
07-11-2008, 05:56 PM
Release for nothing? He is crazy.

If I were the GB brass I would give it to him in another four months - equitable in that he waited that long to change his mind. Moreover, I would put in conditions that the NFC is off-limits and perhaps even look who is in the AFC rotation for who the NFC North plays next year and not allow him to go to any of those teams either. Crazy is, as crazy does.

This is finance, not the warm and fuzzies anymore.

I don't know. I think that's an awfully dangerous strategy. Football fans, even GB fans, are going to want to see this guy play. If GB is seen as being petulant and vindicative, I don't think that turns out well.

Furthermore, if they do release him and he goes on to a Minnesota, a Baltimore et al, plays well and takes them deep into the playoffs, while Rogers crashes and burns, they'll all be tossed out on their ear, and there will be a lynch mob of fans waiting to tear the place down.

By far the safest strategy is to bring Brett back unless they think Rogers is the second coming.

Kaiser Toro
07-11-2008, 06:01 PM
I don't know. I think that's an awfully dangerous strategy. Football fans, even GB fans, are going to want to see this guy play. If GB is seen as being petulant and vindicative, I don't think that turns out well.

Furthermore, if they do release him and he goes on to a Minnesota, a Baltimore et al, plays well and takes them deep into the playoffs, while Rogers crashes and burns, they'll all be tossed out on their ear, and there will be a lynch mob of fans waiting to tear the place down.

By far the safest strategy is to bring Brett back unless they think Rogers is the second coming.

GB wants to win. Have you heard any of the other 52 players being vocal save for a studio appearance on NFL Network? Those are the guys that matter when it is said and done. Did you see that playoff game, I know they have watched it over and over. He looked old, real old. The franchise is ready and positioned to move forward.

Mailman
07-11-2008, 06:08 PM
Why would the Packers not welcome him back? They don't make the NFC Championship game last year with Aaron Rodgers at quarterback. I think Favre's indecisiveness reflects poorly on him as a person but not as a player. Unless the Packers are absolutely certain that Rodgers is their QB of the future, the organization would be foolish to push Favre away. The Old Man still has it.

PapaL
07-11-2008, 06:15 PM
GB wants to win. Have you heard any of the other 52 players being vocal save for a studio appearance on NFL Network? Those are the guys that matter when it is said and done. Did you see that playoff game, I know they have watched it over and over. He looked old, real old. The franchise is ready and positioned to move forward.

I'm not saying Farve wasn't part of the formula for success last year but they started playing well when the run game turned the corner. Suddenly the D wasn't so tired and the games were shorter.

Part of the problem is that Farve thinks he has to win the game. Until he makes that John Elway to T.D transition they're not going anywhere. Bringing in #12 and telling him to hand and don't do anything stupid is going work. He's going to listen. When was the last time Father Time Farve listened?

ChampionTexan
07-11-2008, 06:18 PM
His 11.4 salary cap number is off the books regardless as of April when he went on the reserve-retirement list. He has no leverage and stated what he wants. The entity who controls his rights now has all the leverage by granting the unconditional release under x, y, z, especially in the court of public opinion.

Favre's agent still has not requested for him to be re-instated with the NFL office. That is why I would act fast and have an equitable offer on the table. If he gets re-instated then the Packers I believe would have to assume the salary cap hit, but then what kind of value is that to any of them in a trade as no one will assume that contract and we will back to where we were a few months ago and Favre goes down in history with a somewhat less shiny reputation.

So if you're correct, how can Green Bay prevent the official re-instatement request from putting them back on the hook, because I'm reading if he comes back, they pay him or cut him.

The Packers can't have it both ways. Steve McNair forced the issue two years ago when the Tennessee Titans didn't want him but also didn't want to trade him for what the Baltimore Ravens were offering. So if Favre wants back in, the Packers have to take him back or let him leave.

And if Favre is on the opening-day roster, his $12 million base salary for 2008 will be fully guaranteed.
http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=430482

Also, I read that no enforceable conditions can be put on his release

What if the Packers release Favre with the understanding that he won’t sign with another team in the NFC North?

This would help the team save some face, preventing the potential fiasco of Favre showing up at Lambeau Field again this year playing for the Lions or Vikings or Bears (oh sh-t).

The only problem is that, per NFL spokesman Greg Aiello, the rule prohibit such an agreement.
http://www.profootballtalk.com/2008/07/08/packers-cant-limit-favres-options/

I realize both of these comments are Mike Florio, so if he's wrong, I'm wrong, but that's what I'm basing my comments on. I also realize he references McNair in the salary comment, and I'm pretty sure McNair hadn't filed retirement papers before he went to the Ravens, so Florio may be wrong, or it could be that when he files the official paperwork and removes his name from the reserve/retirement list, the Packer's obligation is restored.

PapaL
07-11-2008, 06:21 PM
Why would the Packers not welcome him back? They don't make the NFC Championship game last year with Aaron Rodgers at quarterback. I think Favre's indecisiveness reflects poorly on him as a person but not as a player. Unless the Packers are absolutely certain that Rodgers is their QB of the future, the organization would be foolish to push Favre away. The Old Man still has it.

Does he? Link (http://www.sportscolumn.com/story/2005/12/22/84218/818)


In his last 5 playoff games, Brett Favre has thrown 13 interceptions. His team's record in those games is 1-4. The lone win came in a game where Favre didn't throw an interception. Imagine that! Of those 13 interceptions, 6 came in a 2001 debacle against the St. Louis Rams, 4 were last year against the Vikings, and who will ever forget the overtime interception against the Eagles? In between all of those, was the first home playoff loss in Green Bay Packer history, where Favre threw 2 interceptions against the Atlanta Falcons.

It hasn't just been in the playoffs where Favre's mistakes have added up. In the 9 years since the Packers won the Super Bowl, Brett Favre has averaged 19 interceptions per season. He has thrown more than 20 in almost half (4) of those seasons, and finished at the top, err, bottom of the list twice.


Does he have it are folks remembering days long gone?

Texecutioner
07-11-2008, 06:25 PM
I'm not saying Farve wasn't part of the formula for success last year but they started playing well when the run game turned the corner. Suddenly the D wasn't so tired and the games were shorter.

Part of the problem is that Farve thinks he has to win the game. Until he makes that John Elway to T.D transition they're not going anywhere. Bringing in #12 and telling him to hand and don't do anything stupid is going work. He's going to listen. When was the last time Father Time Farve listened?

The Packers played well all season last year. They were winning games before Grant started playing well. Farve had a fantastic season.

Mailman
07-11-2008, 06:26 PM
Please. He threw for 4000 yds and 28 TDs last year.

OF COURSE he still has it.

Kaiser Toro
07-11-2008, 06:30 PM
from PFT (http://www.profootballtalk.com/category/rumor-mill/)

Brett Favre began to have second thoughts about his decision to retire within weeks of the tearful announcement that he was leaving, Jay Glazer of Fox Sports is reporting.

According to Glazer, Favre told the team he wanted to play again at the NFL owners’ meeting in late March, and General Manager Ted Thompson agreed at the time that Favre had something left and would be welcome to return. The Packers even chartered a jet to fly to Mississippi to make an official announcement.

And then, Glazer reports, Favre changed his mind again — and told the team to cancel the un-retirement, because he was going to stay retired.

At that point, Thompson and coach Mike McCarthy decided that Aaron Rodgers would be the team’s starter and that they would draft a quarterback to serve as Rodgers’ backup.

According to Glazer, the Packers’ brass is now steadfast that Rodgers will be the starter, and if Favre asks to be taken off the reserve-retired list, the Packers will welcome Favre back — as Rodgers’ backup.


Will be a costly back up.

Mailman
07-11-2008, 06:32 PM
Does he? Link (http://www.sportscolumn.com/story/2005/12/22/84218/818)




Uh, did you bother carefully reading what you posted?

Double Barrel
07-11-2008, 06:34 PM
If I am Packer fan and they won't let him come back I am FURIOUS!!!

No doubt about it.

If I'm the Pack, I bring him back and make him hold a clipboard and teach Rodgers. If he can't handle that, he can stay in Mississippi.

yep, looks like that's the Packers' position, as well.

According to Glazer, the Packers’ brass is now steadfast that Rodgers will be the starter, and if Favre asks to be taken off the reserve-retired list, the Packers will welcome Favre back — as Rodgers’ backup.

This is the best strategy for the Packers. They are basically in a no-win situation with regards to pleasing the fans and trying to keep Favre from being sent to a divisional opponent. If he's on the bench, then Rodgers has to step up or the old man is ready to go in at a moment's notice. They just have to pay a helluva' lot for a backup QB.

Kaiser Toro
07-11-2008, 06:37 PM
Uh, did you bother carefully reading what you posted?

:penalty: That smilie does not get used that often, so I thought I would dust him off a bit and let him air out. :)

PapaL
07-11-2008, 06:40 PM
Uh, did you bother carefully reading what you posted?

I know it's an '05 article. My point is simple. He's been on a downward spiral since then and most of those points are still valid. What has he done since winning the SB? His post season career has been a disaster. He seems to forget which team he's on.

Mailman
07-11-2008, 06:42 PM
I know it's an '05 article. My point is simple. He's been on a downward spiral since then and most of those points are still valid. What has he done since winning the SB? His post season career has been a disaster. He seems to forget which team he's on.

If he's been on a downward spiral ever since, explain 2007.

Last year blows that entire piece to shreds.

ETA: It's dishonest to cherry pick his playoff failures when they're offset by his regular season stats.

TexanSam
07-11-2008, 06:43 PM
I can't see Favre in another uniform. It'll look wrong.

ChampionTexan
07-11-2008, 06:47 PM
from PFT (http://www.profootballtalk.com/category/rumor-mill/)



Will be a costly back up.

Not to mention the Mother of all QB controversies/distractions.

If they actually did this, I think it would be disastrous. Then again, they may just be playing a giant game of chicken (which may not be that bad a strategy given their limited options).

Kaiser Toro
07-11-2008, 06:52 PM
Not to mention the Mother of all QB controversies/distractions.

If they actually did this, I think it would be disastrous. Then again, they may just be playing a giant game of chicken (which may not be that bad a strategy given their limited options).

Yeah, my premise is that a move or trial balloon statement had to be made. There is value in Favre, but at what cost to the team and to what cost to Favre dictates that both sides are going to have to give in order to each save face. They know what he wants, an unconditional release.

Mr teX
07-11-2008, 08:22 PM
If he's been on a downward spiral ever since, explain 2007.

Last year blows that entire piece to shreds.

ETA: It's dishonest to cherry pick his playoff failures when they're offset by his regular season stats.

Tell me what "contending" team is not set for years to come with their starting QB.... I'll give u a hint there's no such team.

& you are seriously underestimating the talent that he was surrounded with last year. yeah he had a great year, but make no mistake, the guys around him are playing a huge role in what he's able to do at his age. Look no further than 2005 & 2006 when J. Walker, A. Green & R. Ferguson/G. Jennings all missed significant time due to injuries. If he's still "got it" as you say, what happened those 2 years? he looked old & mediocore & his stats from those years bear that out.

He's at the point where he needs playmakers around him to put up those type of stats & as everyone knows, those teams already have their guys. Going to Minnesota, Tampa Bay or any of these other teams people say he'd be a good fit with he's going to look like the favre from 05-06 b/c they don't have any more than 1 playmaker on offense for him. That's part of the reason he wants to come back.........b/c he knows he's leaving a team stocked with weapons behind in GB.

GP
07-11-2008, 09:12 PM
I want Favre to go away.

This stuff is getting old. Every year it's the same thing.

Forget his "skills," his best talent is faking a retirement so that people will fall all over themselves to ask him to come back. At this point, Brett seriously appears to be consumed with seeing how badly people want him.

Go. Away.

And thanks for the memories :)

PapaL
07-11-2008, 09:30 PM
If he's been on a downward spiral ever since, explain 2007.

Last year blows that entire piece to shreds.

ETA: It's dishonest to cherry pick his playoff failures when they're offset by his regular season stats.

Who cares about regular season when you can't do it when it counts most?

I don't care if Schaub throws 100ints in the regular season IF he leds us to a championship. (Hello Eli)

To me that piece, though dated, shows how he wears down through the regular season and just doesn't have it come playoff time. Which is still evident to this day.

*Ahh Horsecrap! My 5000th post was wasted on this?*

Sal Rosenberg
07-11-2008, 09:47 PM
This is terrible

HJam72
07-11-2008, 10:24 PM
I think I'm gonna cry.

Oh, I forgot. I don't really care.

Some people are professional retirers. They should just take him back, start him, and have a fire sale of their O-line.

Hervoyel
07-11-2008, 10:27 PM
His 11.4 salary cap number is off the books regardless as of April when he went on the reserve-retirement list. He has no leverage and stated what he wants. The entity who controls his rights now has all the leverage by granting the unconditional release under x, y, z, especially in the court of public opinion.

Favre's agent still has not requested for him to be re-instated with the NFL office. That is why I would act fast and have an equitable offer on the table. If he gets re-instated then the Packers I believe would have to assume the salary cap hit, but then what kind of value is that to any of them in a trade as no one will assume that contract and we will back to where we were a few months ago and Favre goes down in history with a somewhat less shiny reputation.


See now if he'd been a Texan then Bob McNair would have gone ahead and paid him the 11.4 because he's a good guy and a class act. Then the Texans would stew on this for about 24 hours before announcing that they were giving him his unconditional release because nobody called to offer them anything for Favre.

mexican_texan
07-12-2008, 01:03 AM
He should just go back to doing movies with Ben Stiller and leave football alone.

nunusguy
07-12-2008, 08:15 AM
This guy is almost as big of an egotistical baby as Roger Clements.

Mailman
07-12-2008, 09:54 AM
Who cares about regular season when you can't do it when it counts most?

I don't care if Schaub throws 100ints in the regular season IF he leds us to a championship. (Hello Eli)

To me that piece, though dated, shows how he wears down through the regular season and just doesn't have it come playoff time. Which is still evident to this day.

*Ahh Horsecrap! My 5000th post was wasted on this?*

By that criteria, Mark Rypien and Jeff Hostetler were better quarterbacks than Warren Moon.

#1 never brought a championship to Houston, but I wouldn't have wanted anyone else under center.

The Dream
07-12-2008, 10:24 AM
packers are insane for letting him go..................

Second Honeymoon
07-12-2008, 11:33 AM
By that criteria, Mark Rypien and Jeff Hostetler were better quarterbacks than Warren Moon.

#1 never brought a championship to Houston, but I wouldn't have wanted anyone else under center.

Moon was a choker and never met a big game he couldn't lose. That guy turned the ball over at the absolute worse times and was a poor team leader. Moon threw the ball well and was above average QB but he was basically a loser when it came down to it. He is in the HOF for one reason....being the first star black QB. If Moon wasn't black, he wouldn't have even got a sniff.

Remember that the Oilers only beat the Jets and Seahawks in the playoffs during his entire tenure as Oilers QB. He choked his wife and he choked big games. A choker. That being said, I like the guy and he brought me some good times as well as all the bad times and horrific failures. He is still probably the best QB a Houston professional football team has ever has....sorry Dan the Dago.

PapaL
07-12-2008, 12:42 PM
By that criteria, Mark Rypien and Jeff Hostetler were better quarterbacks than Warren Moon.

#1 never brought a championship to Houston, but I wouldn't have wanted anyone else under center.

Bet you everyone would trade his HOF numbers for either of Rypien or Hostetler's rings.

You can live in the regular if that floats your boat. I don't care about those stats. The only thing that matters is does he perform on the grand stage when it counts? Ever since his lone SB win Brett has done the opposite. I'd be more than happy to play against him in the playoffs; especially with his track record in the last 10 years or so.

GlassHalfFull
07-12-2008, 01:28 PM
Who cares about regular season when you can't do it when it counts most?

I don't care if Schaub throws 100ints in the regular season IF he leds us to a championship. (Hello Eli)

To me that piece, though dated, shows how he wears down through the regular season and just doesn't have it come playoff time. Which is still evident to this day.

*Ahh Horsecrap! My 5000th post was wasted on this?*

Hey, I thought you promised to use your 5000th post on me!!!

As far as Farve, I heard he said his family was encouraging to play again this year. I think his wife is probably fed up with him and wants him out of the house. He strikes me as the high maintainence type. :scarygirl:

b0ng
07-12-2008, 01:34 PM
Here's what was on the sports section front page of the Milwuakee Journal Sentinel (I think that's what it is called)

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/1576/ca4fd3e6e94471ba071f0e5jm7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/1576/ca4fd3e6e94471ba071f0e5jm7.7d98220494.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=504&i=ca4fd3e6e94471ba071f0e5jm7.jpg)

I am now torn. If that actually happened, I think Bears fans and Packers fans would both explode in a fiery death. Which would be good. Actually I'm not torn anymore. If only that explosion could take some Cowboy fans with it.

Sal Rosenberg
07-12-2008, 01:34 PM
Could Farve goto the Ravens?

b0ng
07-12-2008, 01:35 PM
Could Farve goto the Ravens?

Possibly, but would the Ravens be willing to deal out picks to get Favre? That's really the ultimate question. What teams are willing to part with draft picks in order to have the grizzled gunslinger on their squad?

Kaiser Toro
07-12-2008, 01:54 PM
Favre is a flip flopper. :bunpan:

Mailman
07-12-2008, 02:13 PM
Moon was a choker and never met a big game he couldn't lose. That guy turned the ball over at the absolute worse times and was a poor team leader. Moon threw the ball well and was above average QB but he was basically a loser when it came down to it. He is in the HOF for one reason....being the first star black QB. If Moon wasn't black, he wouldn't have even got a sniff.

Remember that the Oilers only beat the Jets and Seahawks in the playoffs during his entire tenure as Oilers QB. He choked his wife and he choked big games. A choker. That being said, I like the guy and he brought me some good times as well as all the bad times and horrific failures. He is still probably the best QB a Houston professional football team has ever has....sorry Dan the Dago.

Spoken like a true-blue fairweather Oilers bandwagon fan. The criticism Moon got for his playoff failures wasn't fair then and it isn't fair now.

Warren Moon was not to blame for the Buffalo debacle, nor was he to blame for the heartbreaking loss against the Joe Montana-led KC Chiefs. Moon got blamed for both even though the onus fell on the Oiler D in both games.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who remembers Cris Dishman's penchant for stupid penalties in crunch time. Or William Fuller and/or Sean Jones lining up in the neutral zone on 3rd and short. Or the refs allowing Don Beebe to run five yards out of bounds in the process of catching a long TD. Or a blatant defensive holding on Ernest Givens by Darryl Talley that went uncalled, resulting in an easy interception that led to the game-winning FG.

Moon never won a Super Bowl. So what? Neither did Marino, Tarkenton, Jim Brown, or Barry Sanders. I find the Lombardi Trophy argument extremely simplistic.

Besides, the issue at hand is whether Favre can still play, not whether he's overrated or a playoff choker. Last season proved beyond all doubt that the Packer legend still has plenty of skills to offer a team in need of a solid QB.

2BCF
07-12-2008, 07:29 PM
He's served GB well.
If he wants a release they should grant it to him on the condition he goes to an AFC team.

TexanSam
07-12-2008, 10:37 PM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/football/nfl/07/12/thompson.favre.packers.ap/index.html?eref=T1

The Packers aren't about to let Brett Favre become a free agent. And while he's now free to return to Green Bay for another season, there's no guarantee he'll be the Packers' starting quarterback if he does.

In an interview with The Associated Press Saturday, Packers general manager Ted Thompson and coach Mike McCarthy said they don't plan to grant Favre the release he is seeking from his contract and are committed to Aaron Rodgers as their starter.

"We've communicated that to Brett, that we have since moved forward," Thompson said Saturday, in his first public comments since Favre requested to be released this week. "At the same time, we've never said that there couldn't be some role that he might play here. But I would understand his point that he would want to play."


Good move on the Packers part. As much as Favre has done for the Packers, no player is above the team.

ChampionTexan
07-13-2008, 12:57 AM
Favre is a flip flopper. :bunpan:

Nah, he's just trying to move to the center.
(Now all he's got to do is figure out which center - Scott Wells, Matt Birk, Olin Kreutz, Jeff Faine...)

PapaL
07-13-2008, 01:16 AM
I wonder how he behaves IF he's on the bench and Rodgers is playing. Would he start a mutiny to get out? Would he throw his teammate under the bus if he has growing pains?

Wouldn't it ironic and poetic justice if he does end up on another team and the Pack wins another SB? How would the Packer backers respond then?

awtysst
07-13-2008, 01:23 AM
Wouldn't it ironic and poetic justice if he does end up on another team and the Pack get to the SB and lose to the Houston Texans? How would the Packer backers respond then?

Fixed for you

Mr teX
07-13-2008, 08:55 AM
I wonder how he behaves IF he's on the bench and Rodgers is playing. Would he start a mutiny to get out? Would he throw his teammate under the bus if he has growing pains?

Wouldn't it ironic and poetic justice if he does end up on another team and the Pack wins another SB? How would the Packer backers respond then?

No, it'd be ironic that he ended his career on the bench anywhere......right where it started for him in ATL behind the likes of a billy joe tolliver.

Porky
07-13-2008, 10:35 AM
Moon was a choker and never met a big game he couldn't lose. That guy turned the ball over at the absolute worse times and was a poor team leader. Moon threw the ball well and was above average QB but he was basically a loser when it came down to it. He is in the HOF for one reason....being the first star black QB. If Moon wasn't black, he wouldn't have even got a sniff.

Remember that the Oilers only beat the Jets and Seahawks in the playoffs during his entire tenure as Oilers QB. He choked his wife and he choked big games. A choker. That being said, I like the guy and he brought me some good times as well as all the bad times and horrific failures. He is still probably the best QB a Houston professional football team has ever has....sorry Dan the Dago.

So you love him and you hate him? Nice.

I think your dead wrong on the color thing. Moon had better numbers than many QB's in the hall. I don't care if he was green. He deserved the nod into the hof. As for the playoff collapses, he didn't always play well, but I think a bigger reason was the type of offense. The run and shoot wasn't a good playoff offense for multiple reasons. And hey you know he wasn't on the field letting Frank Reich run up and down the field the entire second half of the Buffalo debacle. :devilpig:

TexanSam
07-13-2008, 12:17 PM
I wonder if Favre and Roger Clemens talk a lot?

GP
07-13-2008, 12:32 PM
Spoken like a true-blue fairweather Oilers bandwagon fan. The criticism Moon got for his playoff failures wasn't fair then and it isn't fair now.

Warren Moon was not to blame for the Buffalo debacle, nor was he to blame for the heartbreaking loss against the Joe Montana-led KC Chiefs. Moon got blamed for both even though the onus fell on the Oiler D in both games.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who remembers Cris Dishman's penchant for stupid penalties in crunch time. Or William Fuller and/or Sean Jones lining up in the neutral zone on 3rd and short. Or the refs allowing Don Beebe to run five yards out of bounds in the process of catching a long TD. Or a blatant defensive holding on Ernest Givens by Darryl Talley that went uncalled, resulting in an easy interception that led to the game-winning FG.

Moon never won a Super Bowl. So what? Neither did Marino, Tarkenton, Jim Brown, or Barry Sanders. I find the Lombardi Trophy argument extremely simplistic.

Besides, the issue at hand is whether Favre can still play, not whether he's overrated or a playoff choker. Last season proved beyond all doubt that the Packer legend still has plenty of skills to offer a team in need of a solid QB.

Exactly. That's not Warren Moon's fault.

And those were the two HUGE things that swung the game for the Bills. The refs go caught up in helping to make history, IMO. Refs are human, and I think even on a subconscious level they wanted to see if the Bills could do it. If that game is played in Houston, those two things DON'T happen.

That was the year, IMO, we were going to win it all.

I'll never get over it. Never. We could win 10 SBs before I die, and I'll still be miffed about that year.

GP
07-13-2008, 12:46 PM
And, by the way, I have decided that Brett Favre has more than just an addiction to tobacco to battle.

The dude is addicted to holding people hostage, emotionally. I don't want to use the word "sociopath" because I don't think he has anti-social tendencies. But other half of the definition is "...and has a lack of a conscience."

If Brett cares so much about the game of football, Packer fans, and the Packers organization...he'd stop doing this same song and dance every year. Either you WANT to play, or you don't. But expecting the team to wait anxiously for your decision every year is wrong. Where is his conscience?

Instead, he's consumed with himself. And apparently, he desires to have everybody else consumed with him, too.

Why aren't there any stories in the media about how there is a large section of fans who are tired of this moronic parade of selfishness? That's the bigger question, I think. Instead, the media fands the flames and possibly is a huge accessory to this crime.

This is the kind of unobjective crap, by the media, that made me switch my major in college from JOURNALISM to PUBLIC RELATIONS--I saw the bias in the media, and I figured if I'm going to be biased...I might as well be honest about it and do P.R. work rather than fake it and pretend, as a journalist, that I am high above the clouds of bias.

Packers should have had Brett on a year-by-year contract and they'd have been done with him after each year. You want to come back, Brett? That's neat! Do it with another team. We're moving on.

But the Packers FO are c-l-e-a-r-l-y scared of the fan backlash because he's got a year on his contract and something has to be done. The FO put themselves over a barrel with this situation. The FO is stuck trying to serve two masters, and that stuff doesn't work.

Gonna' be fun to be a Packers player this summer when the media starts hounding them during interviews every day. I guarantee you that Brett will count on that as a way to twist the arm of the FO. I can see him now, sitting back and grinning as he watches the mayhem on NFLN, ESPN, and every other media outlet. This will be an epic turd storm. Bank on it.

Mr teX
07-13-2008, 01:51 PM
Moon was a choker and never met a big game he couldn't lose. That guy turned the ball over at the absolute worse times and was a poor team leader. Moon threw the ball well and was above average QB but he was basically a loser when it came down to it. He is in the HOF for one reason....being the first star black QB. If Moon wasn't black, he wouldn't have even got a sniff.

Remember that the Oilers only beat the Jets and Seahawks in the playoffs during his entire tenure as Oilers QB. He choked his wife and he choked big games. A choker. That being said, I like the guy and he brought me some good times as well as all the bad times and horrific failures. He is still probably the best QB a Houston professional football team has ever has....sorry Dan the Dago.

This is complete garbage. Warren moon is one of the most accomplished Qb's to ever play the game no matter how you slice it. Most people forget or don't know that this dude was an absolute Monster in the CFL leading his team to 3 straight grey cups wins - 5 total & you could argue that had he been drafted in the NFL from the start & not spent some of his prime years in the CFL, his stats would've been even more impressive than they already are in the NFL & he would've been able to lead his team to a SB or 2.

OzzO
07-13-2008, 04:18 PM
Hey, let's have a RALLY! :mcnugget:

fox news (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/8341300/Rally-held-to-pressure-Packers-to-reinstate-Favre?MSNHPHMA)

GREEN BAY, Wis. (AP) - FAVRE-WATCH The Brett Favre saga has taken some interesting turns since he supposedly announced his retirement from the NFL. About 200 people rallied outside Lambeau Field on Sunday to pressure the Packers into reinstating Brett Favre as the team's starting quarterback.

The crowd - many wearing No. 4 jerseys - chanted, "We want Brett" and carried signs reading, "Favre for President."
Adam and Erick Rolfson organized the rally. They plan to hold another Monday night in the Milwaukee area and then every Sunday until the team reinstates Favre....

I think Casserly actually made sense (once - when we got Mario) saying something to the affect of "when we start letting the fans decide what we're gonna do, we'll have issues.." or something like that. Maybe he finished that with a "you see?"

Kaiser Toro
07-13-2008, 05:42 PM
Hey, let's have a RALLY! :mcnugget:

fox news (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/8341300/Rally-held-to-pressure-Packers-to-reinstate-Favre?MSNHPHMA)



I think Casserly actually made sense (once - when we got Mario) saying something to the affect of "when we start letting the fans decide what we're gonna do, we'll have issues.." or something like that. Maybe he finished that with a "you see?"

They should have given him a release with conditions and put the brunt on the NFL soft (in my opinion) stipulation of no conditions. They and Favre will take the heat depending upon which side one is on, until someone makes a move.

rmartin65
07-13-2008, 06:18 PM
I realize I am a bit late here, but Favre needs shut up. He has been jerking the team around for 3 years, and now he has crossed the line. If he gets reinstated, they should make Favre sit on the bench.

SheTexan
07-13-2008, 07:01 PM
Moon was a choker and never met a big game he couldn't lose. That guy turned the ball over at the absolute worse times and was a poor team leader. Moon threw the ball well and was above average QB but he was basically a loser when it came down to it. He is in the HOF for one reason....being the first star black QB. If Moon wasn't black, he wouldn't have even got a sniff.

Remember that the Oilers only beat the Jets and Seahawks in the playoffs during his entire tenure as Oilers QB. He choked his wife and he choked big games. A choker. That being said, I like the guy and he brought me some good times as well as all the bad times and horrific failures. He is still probably the best QB a Houston professional football team has ever has....sorry Dan the Dago.

Never in a million years did I think I would EVER agree with you on anything Second, BUT, what the hell, ya got me with this post. The only thing I disagree with is the statement about him being the best QB a Houston professional football team has ever had. That honor goes to Jim Kelly when he was with the Houston Gamblers. JMO!

Hervoyel
07-13-2008, 07:05 PM
...If Brett cares so much about the game of football, Packer fans, and the Packers organization...he'd stop doing this same song and dance every year. Either you WANT to play, or you don't. But expecting the team to wait anxiously for your decision every year is wrong. Where is his conscience?

Instead, he's consumed with himself. And apparently, he desires to have everybody else consumed with him, too.....


I think you're dead-on with this and I'd add that he's probably contributed to making the team worse through keeping his position up in the air every year. I'm really wondering if it's even possible to just plug Aaron Rogers in there at this point. How many players on that team are "loyal" to Brett? If they did let Favre return as a backup how well do you think this team is going to play for Rogers?

I could also be wrong and maybe they're as sick of this act as many of us are. Who really knows which direction that locker room leans? My thoughts are it's probably Favre's team and bringing him back to sit would tear them apart.

That's a screwed up situation right there. If I were the Packers I'd release him and be done with it or offer to trade him for a conditional 2 or something. I would not try to keep him retired with threats of being second string. We all know that isn't going to work. You either bring him back and admit that you and the entire organization are Brett's bitches or you send him on his way. Anyone wanting to know the right call need only look at old and great QB's who have left their primary team and gone on to play 1-2 more years with other franchises. Nothing good comes from that. The team that trades for him or signs him as a free agent will not get value and the Packers will look very smart indeed in the long run if they get something for him. People up there have the fear that he'll end up in a Bears uniform and that's likely but nothing to fear. He's not going to roll into GB with the Bears and beat them. No way in the world that happens. Likewise he's not taking his next team to the Super Bowl. Maybe he gets them to the post season once but that's about it.

GP
07-13-2008, 11:46 PM
You either bring him back and admit that you and the entire organization are Brett's bitches or you send him on his way.

Well, that's what this whole bloody episode reeks of anyways, due to the lengths the FO has gone in order to practically bend over backwards trying to appease everyone with what the organization's stance is on Baby Brett...carefully wording their P.R. statements with language that the semantics king himself, Bill Clinton, would be proud of. "Brett is family...Brett is a legend...We honor Brett for his time with us...Gee golly, if we had ONLY known he was really serious..." Pfffttt.

Good grief! It's as if Brett, the fans, and the FO have made himself into a freaking God in that place. Is this how Packers legends would have done it "back in the day?" Would they have pulled this crap every year? No. They would have been MEN and would have either come back or stayed away.

Anyone wanting to know the right call need only look at old and great QB's who have left their primary team and gone on to play 1-2 more years with other franchises. Nothing good comes from that.

Which is exactly why Brett is even more of a jerk. Trying to get one more year of football because he is addicted and unable to go forward with life, and it therefore makes the Packers Fo look like the devil. Some people don't "move on" after high school, pulling an Uncle Rico and talking about throwing footballs over those mountains over there. Seems that Brett is not moving on with life after NFL. And his wife and kids are a mystery to me, as well. Apparently they are telling him to "go for it?" Friggin' weird, man.

Brett would make a GREAT tv guy. He'd be around NFL guys, he'd be connected, it'd keep him alive. And it'd be a lot easier on his body.

I've never seen a pro athlete SO scared to hang it up, for good. It really looks awful to everyone but Brett, and he just can't see it. Doesn't help matters when some cheese-head dorks stage an impromptu rally for him.

(Sigh)

There's no easy way out here. Camp starts in a couple of weeks, and you'd think the Packers would have had a better plan if one were available to them--They've known about this since early-to-mid June...it's mid-July now...so you gotta' think that being backup is all Brett's going to get if he indeed wants to come back. And IF he tries to divide the team, or doesn't make practices, or pulls some crap to torque the coaches and management...DE-ACTIVATE him for conduct detrimental to the team and send him home for the remainder of the year like the Eagles did to TO. Contract is fulfilled. Moving on, fellas.

Simply amazing.

eriadoc
07-14-2008, 06:42 AM
The Packers FO needs to stop jerking around Chris Burke .... errrr .... Aaron Rodgers. Sorry, got 'em mixed up.

3rd and Inches
07-14-2008, 07:45 AM
GREEN BAY, Wis. - The Packers aren't about to let Brett Favre become a free agent. And while he's now free to return to Green Bay for another season, there's no guarantee he'll be the Packers' starting quarterback if he does.
ADVERTISEMENT

In an interview with The Associated Press Saturday, Packers general manager Ted Thompson and coach Mike McCarthy said they don't plan to grant Favre the release he is seeking from his contract and are committed to Aaron Rodgers as their starter.

"We've communicated that to Brett, that we have since moved forward," Thompson said Saturday, in his first public comments since Favre requested to be released this week. "At the same time, we've never said that there couldn't be some role that he might play here. But I would understand his point that he would want to play."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080713/ap_on_sp_fo_ne/fbn_packers_favre


DENIED! lol

HoustonFrog
07-14-2008, 08:22 AM
Right now Favre is on my very last nerve. That little prima donna is now saying the Pack forced his retirement when he wasn't really sure. The guy is an attention whore. Stop crying at the end of each season if you think you might comeback.

GlassHalfFull
07-14-2008, 08:34 AM
:popcorn:

Fans hold rally to pressure Green Bay Packers to reinstate Brett Favre

GREEN BAY — For Dave Ward of Theresa and Gregg Schampers of Iron Ridge, the last-minute drive to Green Bay to rally in support of their favorite quarterback was a no-brainer.


The two diehard fans, both wearing No. 4 jerseys, joined about 200 others at the Lambeau Field Atrium to demand Brett Favre be reinstated.

"We love Brett and what he means to this team; he still has it," Schampers said. "I think he's our best chance to win. He quit too early."

Erick Rolfson of Pewaukee and his brother organized the rally through their new Web site, www.bring backBrettFavre.com.

Rolfson said the idea is to give the fans a chance to have their voices heard.

"He's a legendary quarterback," he said. "We want (general manager) Ted Thompson to know what the people want. I think there's a lot of people that this is important to."

Rolfson said they will continue to hold rallies every Sunday at noon until the Green Bay Packers reinstate Favre. They hope next Sunday's rally attracts thousands with a grill out/family day tailgate party, he said.

link (http://www.postcrescent.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080714/APC0101/807140470/1003/APC01)

I am so glad to be on the outside watching this. The Packers are in a serious no win situation.

PapaL
07-14-2008, 09:09 AM
Will this story just end? :crying:

WWJD
07-14-2008, 10:11 AM
I love watching Brett play and I hated that he retired. I felt that it was premature.

I hope he gets what he wants. He deserves it.

Double Barrel
07-14-2008, 11:59 AM
The only question the Packers need to be concerned with is who gives them a better chance of a winning season and a playoff berth, Favre or Rodgers. I think the question is easy enough to answer when you step back and look at the bigger picture.

I don't remember this much hate when Roger Clemens was yanking the Astros' chain. :thinking:

Texecutioner
07-14-2008, 12:03 PM
The only question the Packers need to be concerned with is who gives them a better chance of a winning season and a playoff berth, Favre or Rodgers. I think the question is easy enough to answer when you step back and look at the bigger picture.

I don't remember this much hate when Roger Clemens was yanking the Astros' chain. :thinking:

I completely agree. The Packs had a legit shot at getting to the SB last year, and were in the OT for god sakes. Their team has a shot at being even better this year as well. Who gives their team the best chance to win week to week? Farve, so why would waste a great chance at making another run with your best guy out there? Yeah, Brett's been unprofessional and acted like a big baby, no doubt but I'm sure that when the dust clears Farve will be a Packer and the starter as well.

b0ng
07-14-2008, 12:07 PM
I got it. It's perfect. Brett Favre is actually a true American hero. Think about it. Favre knows how long the offseason is. He knows that June and July are pretty much the doldrums of the NFL offseason. He's helping us out by giving us something to talk about for the next 2 months! It's the perfect offseason distraction for the fans of every other football team but the Packers.

GP
07-14-2008, 12:31 PM
The only question the Packers need to be concerned with is who gives them a better chance of a winning season and a playoff berth, Favre or Rodgers. I think the question is easy enough to answer when you step back and look at the bigger picture.

I don't remember this much hate when Roger Clemens was yanking the Astros' chain. :thinking:

I didn't post on the topic, but I'll offer my feelings on that situation:

I was ready for him to leave. Great pitcher, don't get me wrong. But I got the feeling that he and his little traveling buddy (Andy Petitte) were just "stopping by" Houston on the way back to NY...sort of like a "Hey, let's go chill out in Texas and get our batteries re-charged back home for a little bit."

Both of those guys were just weird, if you ask me. And then when the whole HGH thing came out with both those guys, it was even weirder.

I'll take normalcy over talent any day. Take the Bengals: For a season or two, it looked like they were world beaters...then some stuff started to emerge, and it's a bad bad situation there now. That was a pretty big price to pay for a couple of seasons of semi-prosperity that never fully paid off.

Brett is a millstone around the neck of the Packers right now, but he can't see it the way. He's blinded by his own selfish ambitions.

GP
07-14-2008, 12:33 PM
I got it. It's perfect. Brett Favre is actually a true American hero. Think about it. Favre knows how long the offseason is. He knows that June and July are pretty much the doldrums of the NFL offseason. He's helping us out by giving us something to talk about for the next 2 months! It's the perfect offseason distraction for the fans of every other football team but the Packers.

LOL. I was thinking the same thing.

Days of Our Lives...

HoustonFrog
07-14-2008, 12:44 PM
The only question the Packers need to be concerned with is who gives them a better chance of a winning season and a playoff berth, Favre or Rodgers. I think the question is easy enough to answer when you step back and look at the bigger picture.

I don't remember this much hate when Roger Clemens was yanking the Astros' chain. :thinking:

It bothered me with him too. This is year 4 of Favre crying after the last game and getting a curtain call and then whining and moaning. I think the guys game is awesome. I love his passion for the game. I think he is an attention whore though.

Kaiser Toro
07-14-2008, 11:24 PM
The only question the Packers need to be concerned with is who gives them a better chance of a winning season and a playoff berth, Favre or Rodgers. I think the question is easy enough to answer when you step back and look at the bigger picture.

I don't remember this much hate when Roger Clemens was yanking the Astros' chain. :thinking:

It is not the only question since the Packers planned for a life without Favre, that plan included drafting two QBs (Brohm in the 2nd). If Favre came back they may have done something else with the draft.

This is more than one guy trying to replicate something he has only done once in his very long career, it is about the Packers making the right moves to continue the tradition that Favre re-ignited in the 90's. His will to play throws a mental monkey wrench into the locker room and puts unneeded pressure on the FO and staff.

If he wants it that bad then let him wait for his chance and have a Hollywood ending by coming off the bench. If Rodgers is that bad, it will show and be amplified quickly in my opinion. Bu that would be a lot of money tied up in one position.

Corrosion
07-15-2008, 03:42 AM
The more I think about this the more I wonder if maybe Favre was pushed out the door from behind the curtians .... If they Packers want to win the obvious thing to do is have Favre behind the center . If they really believe he is over the hills and far away the thing to do is cut him or trade .

PapaL
07-15-2008, 06:54 AM
Don't know if anyone saw his interview, I caught a piece of it on ESPN this morning. In this interview he said something to the effect that he no longer feels wanted in GB and only wants his unconditonal release. Something about being slighted and just wanting out.

*Updated*

Here is part of the interview conducted by Fox News (On the Record with Greta Van Susteren) aired on ESPN; Link (http://sports.espn.go.com/broadband/video/videopage?videoId=3487721&categoryId=2459789)

Mr teX
07-15-2008, 09:13 AM
The only question the Packers need to be concerned with is who gives them a better chance of a winning season and a playoff berth, Favre or Rodgers. I think the question is easy enough to answer when you step back and look at the bigger picture.

I don't remember this much hate when Roger Clemens was yanking the Astros' chain. :thinking:

that's mainly b/c i don't care about baseball as much. But when it comes to the pigskin.......:boxing:

Giant Tiger
07-15-2008, 10:12 AM
This is complete garbage. Warren moon is one of the most accomplished Qb's to ever play the game no matter how you slice it. Most people forget or don't know that this dude was an absolute Monster in the CFL leading his team to 3 straight grey cups wins - 5 total & you could argue that had he been drafted in the NFL from the start & not spent some of his prime years in the CFL, his stats would've been even more impressive than they already are in the NFL & he would've been able to lead his team to a SB or 2.

In the 1981 Grey Cup, he led the Edmonton Eskimos to a 26-23 win over Ottawa. IIRC Ottawa was winning 20-0 just before halftime.

Double Barrel
07-15-2008, 10:36 AM
It is not the only question since the Packers planned for a life without Favre, that plan included drafting two QBs (Brohm in the 2nd). If Favre came back they may have done something else with the draft.

This is more than one guy trying to replicate something he has only done once in his very long career, it is about the Packers making the right moves to continue the tradition that Favre re-ignited in the 90's. His will to play throws a mental monkey wrench into the locker room and puts unneeded pressure on the FO and staff.

If he wants it that bad then let him wait for his chance and have a Hollywood ending by coming off the bench. If Rodgers is that bad, it will show and be amplified quickly in my opinion. Bu that would be a lot of money tied up in one position.

I understand your perspective, and after watching NFLN All Access last night, I think Favre needs to say what he means and mean what he says. I think the team has every right to expect a certain level of professionalism, and Favre being wishy-washy about his commitment is certainly unbecoming of him at the moment.

But teams live to win the season they are facing. And if Favre gives them the better chance to win, then it's a no brainer. But respect is a two-way street, so I would not blame them for telling him to fish or cut bait. Enough is enough, and TC is about to start in a matter of weeks.

hobie
07-15-2008, 11:42 AM
Well I for one am trying to stay removed from this, as we have been around and around with him for the last several years...anyways, he is under contract, so you can say anything and demand whatever it is you want, but the fact is, you have no say in the matter.
Does he give the Packers a better chance, probably so, but until Rodgers plays a full season, who really does know, honestly, who can say that BF will not revert back to the way he was 3 years ago. Once a team, GM start to listen to the fans about the organizations decisions, then they won't be employed that much longer..
If they think Rodgers is the man now, let them honestly fight it out in camp..Let him prove that he is. BF needs to prove to them he is the better QB and just let that end there...
While a sure fire HOF'er, it makes you wonder what the other HOF'ers are thinking....Marino, Elway, Aikman, those who are associated with 1 team and left us wanting more, but knowing that it was time to go. I am certain they all could have played a season or two more, but when you say you are done, well then mean it...
I sure as hope this gets over and done with soon before camps open, as the Packers camp will be a circus if not...plus I am sick off all of the BF/GB BS that is out there....

gary
07-15-2008, 12:09 PM
Just let BF and AR go head to head and battle this out in TC. That's all.

WWJD
07-15-2008, 12:10 PM
Well I for one am trying to stay removed from this, as we have been around and around with him for the last several years...anyways, he is under contract, so you can say anything and demand whatever it is you want, but the fact is, you have no say in the matter.
Does he give the Packers a better chance, probably so, but until Rodgers plays a full season, who really does know, honestly, who can say that BF will not revert back to the way he was 3 years ago. Once a team, GM start to listen to the fans about the organizations decisions, then they won't be employed that much longer..
If they think Rodgers is the man now, let them honestly fight it out in camp..Let him prove that he is. BF needs to prove to them he is the better QB and just let that end there...
While a sure fire HOF'er, it makes you wonder what the other HOF'ers are thinking....Marino, Elway, Aikman, those who are associated with 1 team and left us wanting more, but knowing that it was time to go. I am certain they all could have played a season or two more, but when you say you are done, well then mean it...
I sure as hope this gets over and done with soon before camps open, as the Packers camp will be a circus if not...plus I am sick off all of the BF/GB BS that is out there....

I heard Troy on the radio...he said this is nothing new for Brett which we all know is true...he said back when he was playing that Brett said he would retire after a GB SB so it doesn't surprise him.

He said to let him play; that he had spoken to Brett and Brett told him that he felt he was pushed into retirement by the Packers. Troy said it is super hard to leave and he was even thinking of "un" retiring 3 years after he retired!

Saw Elway on TV. He said he hoped that it worked out in Brett's favor.

Spike
07-15-2008, 12:23 PM
I don't buy this argument that Favre was pushed into retirment. Favre knows better than anyone the leverage he has in that City, organization and in the NFL. He wouldn't let anyone push him to do anything...any more than he is going to let these guys push to keep him in retirement. No one in the Green Bay organization had the power to tell Favre what to do...and if they did, they have to know that it would be professional suicide to push him out the door. We saw the interview, he was tired, his heart wasn't into any more and he was done. Now he has changed his mind. Period.

PapaL
07-15-2008, 02:13 PM
I wonder what Dan Marino is up to? I bet can hit an open WR better than Mr. Clown Gloves #8. He should unretire too. I like Dan.

Lucky
07-15-2008, 03:42 PM
I don't remember this much hate when Roger Clemens was yanking the Astros' chain. :thinking:
I don't remember this much love for Brett Favre last offseason, when he was coming off career worst years in '05 & '06. Many thought Favre was washed up and '07 would be his last hurrah. He not so quietly moaned about management not coming up with Randy Moss or additional offensive weapons. Most observers felt the Pack would finish no better than .500 in a weak division.

But Brett had a comeback season in '07, perhaps his best in a decade. Green Bay was an overtime score to going to the Super Bowl. Suddenly, Favre was Favre again. When he announced his retirement, his teammates who were so close to the ultimate prize had to feel some disappointment. The same teammates that Favre had complained of in the '07 offseason.

Now Favre wants back in. After missing all of the tedious OTAs and minicamps his teammates drudged through. Conventional wisdom is that Packer management should bring him back. That this is their best, if not only chance to win in '08. Maybe that's right. But was Green Bay's '07 success due only to Favre's resurgence? What about the young interior line that came together. The young, Favre-maligned receivers were outstanding. In the seasons 2nd half, Ryan Grant gave the Packers a running thread they've lacked since Ahman Green's Pro Bowl years. And the Packer defense held opponents to 17 points or less in 10 games. But as long as Favre is around and grabbing the attention, these guys won't get the attention they deserve.

Even without Favre, Green Bay should have a competitive team in '08. Probably not as good as had Favre not "retired" this offseason. But they will be a lot further along in knowing whether Aaron Rodgers is the long-term answer at QB. And it should be noted that the Packers selected Rodgers after Favre repeatedly, and publicly, pondered retirement...4 drafts ago. If not now, when does the Favre merry-go-round end? Time to put the team first, and for Green Bay to move on.

GlassHalfFull
07-15-2008, 07:15 PM
More drama :popcorn:

Favre: I'm tempted to show up for camp

MILWAUKEE — Brett Favre says he's tempted to show up at the Green Bay Packers' training camp just to call the team's "bluff."

In the second part of an interview with Fox News, the 38-year-old quarterback said he knows his arrival in camp would cause a media circus, but that might not stop him. Packers players are scheduled to report July 27.

"It's tempting just to, as everyone said, you know, call their bluff or whatever," Favre said, according to an excerpt provided to The Associated Press. "I think it's going to be a circus in itself already, whether I go there, whatever."



The rest of the story:
link (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5889692.html)

TexanSam
07-15-2008, 08:18 PM
More drama :popcorn:

Favre: I'm tempted to show up for camp



The rest of the story:
link (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5889692.html)

I don't think the Packers are bluffing on this one. He can show up to camp and make a big deal about everything, but I don't think that will make the Packers release him.

The Pencil Neck
07-15-2008, 10:22 PM
I don't think the Packers are bluffing on this one. He can show up to camp and make a big deal about everything, but I don't think that will make the Packers release him.

Hell, yeah. Come to camp and be our insurance policy in case Rodgers gets injured or doesn't play well. I'm sure that's what the Packers are thinking.

I was never really a huge Favre fan. I mean, I liked him but I don't think he's a top 10 greatest evar. He's close. But I like a lot of guys more than I've liked him. And I know a lot of people disagree with me on that. No big deal.

But over the past few years, I've really lost a lot of respect for him. The Javon Walker thing and then him holding the Packers hostage year after year. I only recently learned that he hates a lot of the guys in the Packer's FO and they don't like him. And that's probably what all this is really about. Favre gets the feeling that they don't want him back because they don't and that hurts his feelings but the Packer FO can't get rid of him because of his reputation and everything he's done for the team over the past 15 or so years.

Wolf
07-15-2008, 10:28 PM
great Favre comments
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvDOHYy49V0


this was posted on another thread long time ago ..Favre mic'd up

GP
07-16-2008, 12:30 AM
Brett the Big Baby.

Hey Packers FO: Activate him, let him show up at camp and obviously be the huge turd that he says he'll be if he's not the starter...and then de-activate him like the Eagles did to TO. Done.

Pay him his "hush" money and sweep him to the curb via de-activation for conduct detrimental to the team. It's at THEIR discretion on player conduct, right? The NFLPA might get involved, but oh well.

The Packers can justify it by saying "Brett needs to be protected from himself. He's a Packers legend, and we want him to stay that way. Coming back at this point in his life would be a risk to his health. In fact, we're worried that Brett is not functioning, mentally, and has deluded himself into thinking he's still able to perform at a NFL-quality level. We just wanted to protect him from himself."

I hope the Big Baby doesn't get his way. For once, it;d be nice to show Brett that he's not the "God" he's been made out to be. This is what happens when players have cult followings...and Green Bay has its fair share of cultish fans who are driving this whoel deal, IMO.

The Dream
07-16-2008, 01:23 PM
just got word from FOX news that the Packers want to keep Favre......................but he will be holding a clipboard...................................this is ****ing retarded....seriously Rodgers will have even MORE pressure on him to play well and as soon as he throws an INT or two fans will be screaming to put Favre in.................................

WWJD
07-16-2008, 01:34 PM
Please! In order to make a point the Packers are being brain dead here. Play Brett! He's not a 2nd string QB!

The Dream
07-16-2008, 01:34 PM
stubborn brains don't win titles..........

PapaL
07-16-2008, 01:44 PM
Self indulged glory hounds don't either. Can't play in the present and plan for the future when the past won't leave.

WWJD
07-16-2008, 02:02 PM
Brett gives them the best chance to win! Period! And until he doesn't you play him. Nothing against their new QB but that monkey on his back already just got about 500 pounds heavier. Before he was the guy replacing Favre. Now he's the guy replacing Favre who CAN play and wants to play.

The Dream
07-16-2008, 02:06 PM
^^^and will the church say AMEN???

GP
07-16-2008, 05:12 PM
FAVRE NOT IN A HURRY TO FILE FOR REINSTATEMENT (update)

From espn.com (link:Brett Calls A Timeout:Sees Playclock Winding Down (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3491920))

"We have no definite plans to ask for reinstatement," Favre's agent, James "Bus" Cook, said of the former Packers quarterback, who has asked the team for his release. "Right now we have until the sixth week [of the regular season] and Brett has made it pretty clear that he is not willing to come in as a backup.

"If he asks for reinstatement and they start fining him $15,000 a day [for not reporting to training camp], well that just doesn't make sense," Cook said.

"We're going to let Green Bay decide what they want to do. It's their move."

BWAHAHAHA!

That's right, homey. It is "THEIR" move, and Brett seriously miscalculated this whole situation. He figured a little publicity here and there, a rumor dropped onto ESPN about his message to the Packers, and some major media coverage would get him back in for some negotiations.

Now it seems Big Baby Brett understands his role and is backing off.

The agent makes reference to fines for not attending camp...so you KNOW that Brett was going to pull his old "I'm a legend and I don't have to come to camp" routine. Heck, he LIED last year about why he couldn't attend camp. Now he's just being overly honest by having his agent say "Well, Brett's not filing for re-instatement since it'd cost Brett some big money for being a turd and not reporting to camp."

But Brett "just wants to play ball" remember?

Hey Brett: Don't file for retirement. This is what happens when you do.

The Dream
07-16-2008, 05:49 PM
the packers look ridiculous right now. People act as if Favre is the first athlete to "unretire" or take long periods of time to decide if he wants to retire or not. Why is he a baby???, because he wants to win a superbowl with the franchise he loves???? Some people act as if he purposely did all of this for fun and games....Brett would probably be the first to tell you that he made a mistake by making an announcement too early (although people always bash him for holding out...who knows maybe waiting to make a decision actually is a good reason??). The "right" and "smart" thing to do if you're serious about winning and doing what's best for your city, franchise, fan base, etc. is let Favre start.....................

Texecutioner
07-16-2008, 08:10 PM
the packers look ridiculous right now. People act as if Favre is the first athlete to "unretire" or take long periods of time to decide if he wants to retire or not. Why is he a baby???, because he wants to win a superbowl with the franchise he loves???? Some people act as if he purposely did all of this for fun and games....Brett would probably be the first to tell you that he made a mistake by making an announcement too early (although people always bash him for holding out...who knows maybe waiting to make a decision actually is a good reason??). The "right" and "smart" thing to do if you're serious about winning and doing what's best for your city, franchise, fan base, etc. is let Favre start.....................

You and I will get bashed for this but I actually agree with SOME of what you're saying. He did go over board this year though, and do the whole crying thing. He should have just not given them an answer in my opinion and pro longed it.

If they let him go, Rogers will have to be like Steve Young when Montana left and no way is that going to happen. There will be a lot of fans upset and and thinking "What coulda been", if they would have let Brett play another year in Green Bay. Then they'll dislike Rogers because of it which will be unfair.

They might as well roll with him for one more year. Hell, they were in OT to go to the SB. Why would you not roll with the same guy? They have to high of a % chance to make it back to the SB with Brett playing there, and I don't think that it would be smart to not take one more shot at it with Brett. I'm in the minority opinion on this though, but it is an opinion and it's mine.

gary
07-16-2008, 08:50 PM
Who ever does well in TC gets the starting job.

Kaiser Toro
07-16-2008, 10:07 PM
Sources: Packers say Vikings tampered with Favre (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/8351554/Sources:-Packers-say-Vikings-tampered-with-Favre)

snippet
As the days roll by, the Brett Favre saga seems to get stranger and stranger. Now the soap opera has shifted to a new level.

In the latest twist, the Packers have filed tampering charges with the league office against the Minnesota Vikings for alleged communication with Favre, still technically a member of Green Bay, FOXSports.com has learned. The league, according to a source, is currently in information-gathering mode, speaking to members of both teams.

NFL spokesman Greg Aiello told The Associated Press that the league had no public comment on the report. Packers general manager Ted Thompson declined to comment on tampering rumors in an interview with the AP on Saturday.

The Vikings were informed late last week that the allegation is that Favre has had inappropriate dialogue with Minnesota offensive coordinator Darrell Bevell, a close Favre friend and former assistant coach with the Packers. Favre has sought his release from Green Bay and several rumors have swirled that Minnesota is his targeted landing place, largely due to his relationship with Bevell.

League sources say the Vikings vehemently denied any wrongdoing and are awaiting the league's next step in the process. The Packers, meanwhile, have supplied the league with their version of wrongdoing.

Should the league find the Vikings guilty of tampering, they could lose draft picks and/or face fines.

Kaiser Toro
07-16-2008, 10:32 PM
Bucs GM Mum On Interest In Favre (http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/jul/15/bucs-gm-mum-interest-favre/?sports-bucs)

snippet from yesterday
Tampa's radio airwaves were rife with speculation Tuesday about a dinner meeting between Bucs general manager Bruce Allen and retired Packers quarterback Brett Favre.

According to the reports, which were attributed on at least one station to some "well-placed'' unnamed sources, Allen and Favre were seen dining together in Tampa on Monday night at Fleming's Steakhouse.

Fleming's does appear to be a favorite spot of Allen's. He has dined there with several future Buccaneers in the past.

Allen, however, denied having dinner there this week with Favre.

"I think the people at Fleming's can tell you that's absolutely not true,'' Allen told The Tampa Tribune on Tuesday.

Allen wouldn't discuss Favre's situation any further, saying he doesn't respond to rumors or speculation. When asked directly if the Bucs have any interest in pursuing the 38-year-old, he said, "I won't go there.''

gary
07-16-2008, 11:00 PM
The Vikings are going to be in big trouble if this turns out to be true. Why would Brett do this at this point and time? Now I like Brett but this is just nuts already and beyond me I just don't understand this at all. Why? This is just plan dumb on the part of both sides. Why? You do want to come back don't you Brett? Then stop it already enough is enough.

GP
07-16-2008, 11:29 PM
Who ever does well in TC gets the starting job.

If Favre were in Houston, by some weird twist of fate, would he have to compete for the job? No...98% of the fans here would want to see Favre get handed the job.

Favre is done. His agent's recent statement about Brett "suddenly" being not so anxious to rush toward reinstatement is the big tip-off that Brett knows he isn't going to win this one.

Good for the Packers FO. You let the guy come back, time and time again...trying to extend the guy's legacy and maybe give your team the best bet to win at the time...but now you know that the Favre era is over.

It takes guts to stand up to a fan favorite.

edo783
07-17-2008, 09:59 AM
I don't know, but this could be a preemptive strike by the Packers to make sure he doesn't go to the Vikes. No way now that they could pick him up without it looking bad. His old QB coach is at the Vikes and supposedly they talked, but I haven't heard if they were talking about Brett going there. Could just be a couple of buds talking, but if not the Vikes are going to get slammed.

ChampionTexan
07-17-2008, 10:15 AM
If Favre were in Houston, by some weird twist of fate, would he have to compete for the job? No...98% of the fans here would want to see Favre get handed the job.

Favre is done. His agent's recent statement about Brett "suddenly" being not so anxious to rush toward reinstatement is the big tip-off that Brett knows he isn't going to win this one.

Good for the Packers FO. You let the guy come back, time and time again...trying to extend the guy's legacy and maybe give your team the best bet to win at the time...but now you know that the Favre era is over.

It takes guts to stand up to a fan favorite.

So you're actually using a situation which has nothing whatsoever to do with the Texans to take pot-shots at both the FO and the fans? WTF man?

Also, as to his reinstatement (or lack thereof), I think you're reading a bit much into it. All I'm seeing is that if he chooses not to report to camp, he doesn't want to put himself in a situation where the Packers can fine him for that decision.

Mr teX
07-17-2008, 11:03 AM
the packers look ridiculous right now. People act as if Favre is the first athlete to "unretire" or take long periods of time to decide if he wants to retire or not. Why is he a baby???, because he wants to win a superbowl with the franchise he loves???? Some people act as if he purposely did all of this for fun and games....Brett would probably be the first to tell you that he made a mistake by making an announcement too early (although people always bash him for holding out...who knows maybe waiting to make a decision actually is a good reason??). The "right" and "smart" thing to do if you're serious about winning and doing what's best for your city, franchise, fan base, etc. is let Favre start.....................


Don't give me that BS, he's thinking about himself & only himself.

If he were thinking about the franchise & its fans he'd just go ahead & step to the side & let the organization see what it has in aaron rodgers & help bring him along for this year. If he stinks it up ryan leaf style or if rodgers gets hurt... he's likely back in the saddle as the starter anyway. If it does work out... the organization that he "loves" is set at Qb for the next 10 years.

Keep in mind, he could do this with the packers still being able to deal him in the midseason to someone that might want him as the starter. If the packers win the superbowl this year & he's still on the team, he'd still gets his ring holding the clipboard knowing that he played a key role in helping rodgers & the franchise achieve it that year. Everybody's happy.

Then... if he still wanted to come back & play the next year & the AR thing worked out, it's unlikely that the pack would bring him back for 12 mil; he'd most likely be released/traded & he still gets his opportunity to be a starter elsewhere.

The smart thing in the short term might be for them to bring him back as the starter, but it's not like he puts them that much closer to going to the superbowl b/c he's not the difference maker that he once was... his last couple of playoff appearances over the years show that. you risk losing your future guy for a marginal increase in superbowl contention IMO.

Texecutioner
07-17-2008, 11:12 AM
If Favre were in Houston, by some weird twist of fate, would he have to compete for the job? No...98% of the fans here would want to see Favre get handed the job.

Favre is done. His agent's recent statement about Brett "suddenly" being not so anxious to rush toward reinstatement is the big tip-off that Brett knows he isn't going to win this one.

Good for the Packers FO. You let the guy come back, time and time again...trying to extend the guy's legacy and maybe give your team the best bet to win at the time...but now you know that the Favre era is over.

It takes guts to stand up to a fan favorite.

Are you saying that the Farve era is over in GB, or that his era of being a good player is over?

I'm finding a hard time understanding how people seem to think that Farve shouldn't play somewhere and should just sit down. Sorry, but he just had an incredible season and was runner up to the MVP to a guy that had the best season of any QB in history. Farve can definitely still play, and help a team go to the playoffs and maybe a Super Bowl. Yeah, he may have acted annoying, unprofessional, and a little selfish, but the guy showed last year that he can still play as good as the top elite QB's in the league. There are plenty of teams that could use him right now, if the Packers want to move on and I think that it will make this season a lot more interesting to see Farve play somewhere else.

PapaL
07-17-2008, 11:33 AM
To answer your first question, both. His era ended the day he was boohooing on stage. As far as being a good/great player; that ended a long time ago.

His wonderful season is an aberration. Guys don't get better at 38. He had a great season bu it was not all his own doing. Plus he clearly has worn down towards the end of each season for the last 5 years or so.

He clearly does not know when to hold'em or fold'em.

WWJD
07-17-2008, 11:47 AM
Brett is STILL a great player. Last year proved that if nothing else. The QB is the most important player on any football team and the Pack was one game away from the SB. One play actually.

Fine the Packers say they don't want him. Fine. Release him and let him go to another team. The guy WANTS to play and CAN.

They owe him that much.

Double Barrel
07-17-2008, 11:48 AM
I'm a fan of Favre, but this drama is getting goofy. Dude needs to say what he means and mean what he says. He seems to be trying to play games, which is a damn shame (mainly because he's not very good at it). Future HoF players should set an example of leadership, and I hate to say it, but this current wishy-washy head game from the Favre camp does nothing but diminish his legacy.

Damn it, Favre! If you want to play, be a man and just say it. Quit acting in a way that only serves to distract your team, because that is all this is doing. He's listening to his freakin' agent right now, instead of listening to his own heart. If he really is a team player, and he really loves the Packers, then do whatever is necessary to help them succeed. Even if that means holding a clipboard and teaching the next generation everything you can.

But, if it's all about his own ego, then that says it all.

ChampionTexan
07-17-2008, 11:57 AM
To answer your first question, both. His era ended the day he was boohooing on stage. As far as being a good/great player; that ended a long time ago.

His wonderful season is an aberration. Guys don't get better at 38. He had a great season bu it was not all his own doing. Plus he clearly has worn down towards the end of each season for the last 5 years or so.

He clearly does not know when to hold'em or fold'em.

So that being the case, GB should take the high road and say that in order to honor Brett Favre's contribution to the Packers, they are granting his request for release. The PR aspect of this is probably better - or at least no worse - for the Packers than it is right now. If Brett signs with the Bears or Vikes, the Pack should be happy about it because they're now playing against a washed up, has been QB two times a year, plus that competitor has that QB for the other 14 games too. Would seem to make it a three team race for the NFC North.

The main reason this won't happen is because they know he's still got something in the tank, and don't want to see it benefitting a division competitor.

PapaL
07-17-2008, 12:07 PM
So that being the case, GB should take the high road and say that in order to honor Brett Favre's contribution with the Packers, they are granting his request for release. The PR aspect of this is probably better - or at least no worse - for the Packers than it is right now. If Brett signs with the Bears or Vikes, the Pack should be happy about it because they're now playing against a washed up, has been QB two times a year.

The main reason this won't happen is because they know he's still got something in the tank, and don't want to see it benefitting a division competitor.

IMO - They do not owe him anything. He can request whatever he wants but at the end of the day he has a contract with them. I'm sure that contract does not say he will be the starting QB for GB. He "said" he wants to come back and they said sure here's the $12M we owe you and here is your clip board, welcome back.

The organization has to gauge which scenario would cause the most fall out amongst it's fan base. An icon on their bench or playing for their rivals? After all, the hold all the cards and it seems the options they are allowing him are 1.)Shut up and sit on the bench or 2.)Stay retired.

Mr teX
07-17-2008, 12:20 PM
Brett is STILL a great player. Last year proved that if nothing else. The QB is the most important player on any football team and the Pack was one game away from the SB. One play actually.

Fine the Packers say they don't want him. Fine. Release him and let him go to another team. The guy WANTS to play and CAN.

They owe him that much.

& what was that 1 play that made the difference?

everybody wants to point out what he did last year completely ignoring the 2 years prior to that when he looked like crap. no 1 guy is above the team no matter who they are.

& They don't owe him anything...They let holmgren bring him over from ATL when he looked like he didn't belong in the NFL. They have also allowed him to keep them captive for 4 years. Lets not even talk about the money he made while in GB. He's been more than adequately compensated for what he did in GB.

& the packers don't want him as a starter, but they want him back, it's just his ego that won't let him hold a clipboard. I think even if he just came back as the 2nd string guy, the fans would be ok with that knowing they have their "ace in the hole" so to speak if the rodgers thing doesn't pan out.

GP
07-17-2008, 12:25 PM
So you're actually using a situation which has nothing whatsoever to do with the Texans to take pot-shots at both the FO and the fans? WTF man?

Also, as to his reinstatement (or lack thereof), I think you're reading a bit much into it. All I'm seeing is that if he chooses not to report to camp, he doesn't want to put himself in a situation where the Packers can fine him for that decision.

All I have read on this site is how stupid it is to expect kubiak to allow an open competition for the QB job here. The rationale was that a team needs to know who it's "guy" is so that the team can rally around him and there's not a divided locker room. That's not ME talking...that's 98% of the board saying that (I prefer the QB to earn his job). Yet...there's nobody responding to gary's idea of having Brett compete for the job with Aaron Rodgers. Why? Here's why: Because the only reason people DON'T want an open competition in Houston is because there's a pretty good chance that someone other than Schaub will win the job. And we can't have that, can we?

And to respond to your second paragraph: Brett should report to camp and be a man. He says he toyed with the idea of "just showing up to camp," which is odd (to me) since the dude has ducked camp for the past few years--Which is it, Brett? First he says "No way I come back as a backup..." then he says "Well, I might just 'show up' at camp..." and now it's "Brett has no immediate intention to file for reinstatement...". I hope he doesn't throw his back out with all the flip flopping he's doing.

He's a turd, and it's getting exposed. Lots of people are upset at all this mess...but they're most upset because they are seeing a whole new side to the man they thought was just a good 'ole boy from the farm who is a man's man. Well...I say he's a diva in coveralls.

Mr teX
07-17-2008, 12:26 PM
So that being the case, GB should take the high road and say that in order to honor Brett Favre's contribution to the Packers, they are granting his request for release. The PR aspect of this is probably better - or at least no worse - for the Packers than it is right now. If Brett signs with the Bears or Vikes, the Pack should be happy about it because they're now playing against a washed up, has been QB two times a year, plus that competitor has that QB for the other 14 games too. Would seem to make it a three team race for the NFC North.


that's part of it, but it's also the fan fall out of letting one of their legends go play for a rival. & whatever happened to the "leaving a place better than it was when you got there" mentality? Everyone knows that confidence is key to a qb's success & i'm sure the team rodgers has around him would help to foster his confidence a great deal.....but favre seeking more glory wont step aside.

WWJD
07-17-2008, 12:54 PM
& what was that 1 play that made the difference?

everybody wants to point out what he did last year completely ignoring the 2 years prior to that when he looked like crap. no 1 guy is above the team no matter who they are.

& They don't owe him anything...They let holmgren bring him over from ATL when he looked like he didn't belong in the NFL. They have also allowed him to keep them captive for 4 years. Lets not even talk about the money he made while in GB. He's been more than adequately compensated for what he did in GB.

& the packers don't want him as a starter, but they want him back, it's just his ego that won't let him hold a clipboard. I think even if he just came back as the 2nd string guy, the fans would be ok with that knowing they have their "ace in the hole" so to speak if the rodgers thing doesn't pan out.

Please! Why would Brett want to come and hold a clipboard? That's not even feasible.

The only play I spoke of was an interception he threw. Very poor throw that sealed the game for the Giants.

I consider Brett a special case...he's earned the right to be given his release if they want to play Aaron. Fine. Do that. I think that's all he's saying.

ChampionTexan
07-17-2008, 01:03 PM
All I have read on this site is how stupid it is to expect kubiak to allow an open competition for the QB job here. The rationale was that a team needs to know who it's "guy" is so that the team can rally around him and there's not a divided locker room. That's not ME talking...that's 98% of the board saying that (I prefer the QB to earn his job). Yet...there's nobody responding to gary's idea of having Brett compete for the job with Aaron Rodgers. Why? Here's why: Because the only reason people DON'T want an open competition in Houston is because there's a pretty good chance that someone other than Schaub will win the job. And we can't have that, can we?

And to respond to your second paragraph: Brett should report to camp and be a man. He says he toyed with the idea of "just showing up to camp," which is odd (to me) since the dude has ducked camp for the past few years--Which is it, Brett? First he says "No way I come back as a backup..." then he says "Well, I might just 'show up' at camp..." and now it's "Brett has no immediate intention to file for reinstatement...". I hope he doesn't throw his back out with all the flip flopping he's doing.

He's a turd, and it's getting exposed. Lots of people are upset at all this mess...but they're most upset because they are seeing a whole new side to the man they thought was just a good 'ole boy from the farm who is a man's man. Well...I say he's a diva in coveralls.


I like Brett Favre, but it's not to the point of really caring where this thing ends up. I'm neither a Packer fan, nor am I a Packer hater, but I will admit that I find this to be a pretty entertaining distraction at a time of the year where there is precious little else going on.

If Favre is screwing over the Packers, or vice versa, I kind of hope it continues for most of pre-season, because however it turns out, as long as it's going on, it's something to follow. It's kind of surprising to me that it gets folks who, to the best of my knowledge, have no stake in this highly emotional.

And to the extent we've had this discussion regarding Schaub and Rosenfels (and BTW, I seem to remember a few more Rosenfels supporters than you do), I still don't see where that warrants the shot at the Texans/fans you took for this unrelated story.

Mr teX
07-17-2008, 01:44 PM
Please! Why would Brett want to come and hold a clipboard? That's not even feasible.

The only play I spoke of was an interception he threw. Very poor throw that sealed the game for the Giants.

I consider Brett a special case...he's earned the right to be given his release if they want to play Aaron. Fine. Do that. I think that's all he's saying.

He doesn't need things spelled out for him like a preschooler. Once they drafted AR, The writings been on the wall for a couple of years now......& lots of it he wrote it by intimating that this might be his last year. Furthermore, he wasn't exactly forthright with whether he wanted to come back or not either.


I knew what play you were speaking of, & that's the point. that's been his MO for about a good 6-7 years in the playoffs...........regardless of what he did in the regular season.

& No player wants to hold the clipboard but what makes that so un-feasible for him? He's not any more special than any other great Qb at this stage in their careers he's just the only one who can't make up his mind for 4 years running whether he wants to retire or not.

Part of the problem is noone, not even himself, can see him doing anything else in the realm of football or competitive sports like lots of the other greats transition on to. I mean seriously, could you see Favre sitting on set with Dan, Boomer & shannon with that ratty ass hat on looking like he hasn't shaved in a week? You here others talking about finding that "thing" to substitute for football & i don't think Favre has found that yet. I think he wants to retire he just can't b/c he doesn't know what he's gonna do with himself once he finally hangs 'em up.

Somebody needs to offer him a spot on NFL network doing something...so this guy can just see that life without playing football professionally can still be enjoyable.

gary
07-17-2008, 01:49 PM
All I have read on this site is how stupid it is to expect kubiak to allow an open competition for the QB job here. The rationale was that a team needs to know who it's "guy" is so that the team can rally around him and there's not a divided locker room. That's not ME talking...that's 98% of the board saying that (I prefer the QB to earn his job). Yet...there's nobody responding to gary's idea of having Brett compete for the job with Aaron Rodgers. Why? Here's why: Because the only reason people DON'T want an open competition in Houston is because there's a pretty good chance that someone other than Schaub will win the job. And we can't have that, can we?

And to respond to your second paragraph: Brett should report to camp and be a man. He says he toyed with the idea of "just showing up to camp," which is odd (to me) since the dude has ducked camp for the past few years--Which is it, Brett? First he says "No way I come back as a backup..." then he says "Well, I might just 'show up' at camp..." and now it's "Brett has no immediate intention to file for reinstatement...". I hope he doesn't throw his back out with all the flip flopping he's doing.

He's a turd, and it's getting exposed. Lots of people are upset at all this mess...but they're most upset because they are seeing a whole new side to the man they thought was just a good 'ole boy from the farm who is a man's man. Well...I say he's a diva in coveralls.All he wants is one more shot at an SB ring. Why not? Don't the GB fans want the samething? Did you see the ralley to bring the guy back? It was something else. They truely do want the guy to come back and be the starter. He does need to stop this BS and be a man about things. But don't they have a better chance at winning with him in one year than in a few years with Rogers? I think so and we see that Green Bay thinks so as well or they'd never even be worryied about Brett ending up with the the darn Vikings. Would they? Am I right about one thing? I thought that the Packers want to move on already. Correct? So then why not release Brett and let him move on? I think that would be only fair. Don't you think so too? He really does need to grow up already though. I do agree on that one thing. This is JMHO. So no fighting here please

TK_Gamer
07-17-2008, 01:52 PM
IMO - They do not owe him anything. He can request whatever he wants but at the end of the day he has a contract with them. I'm sure that contract does not say he will be the starting QB for GB. He "said" he wants to come back and they said sure here's the $12M we owe you and here is your clip board, welcome back.

The organization has to gauge which scenario would cause the most fall out amongst it's fan base. An icon on their bench or playing for their rivals? After all, the hold all the cards and it seems the options they are allowing him are 1.)Shut up and sit on the bench or 2.)Stay retired.


Actually no, becuase of the size of his contract they can really only bluff to keep him on the bench, not to mention the fan reaction the first game Rogers screws up. The real story is they dont want him as a distraction to the development of thier 2 young QB's (Brohm and Rogers). Unfortunately Favre is bigger than the Packers front office and he knows it. I totally agree that they can't afford to let him go to chicago or minnesota, but he will play this year one way or another and the chances that heads will roll if the packers stink it up without him are better than the chances he will swallow his pride and retire gracefully. IMHO.

GuerillaBlack
07-17-2008, 02:39 PM
All he wants is one more shot at an SB ring. Why not? Don't the GB fans want the samething? Did you see the ralley to bring the guy back? It was something else. They truely do want the guy to come back and be the starter. He does need to stop this BS and be a man about things. But don't they have a better chance at winning with him in one year than in a few years with Rogers? I think so and we see that Green Bay thinks so as well or they'd never even be worryied about Brett ending up with the the darn Vikings. Would they? Am I right about one thing? I thought that the Packers want to move on already. Correct? So then why not release Brett and let him move on? I think that would be only fair. Don't you think so too? He really does need to grow up already though. I do agree on that one thing. This is JMHO. So no fighting here please

The team in general has a very small chance of winning the Superbowl, let alone even making the game. Brett ran out of gas at the end of last season and he will because he's aging and just can't play like he used to. He himself even said that he cannot be fully dedicated to the team because his body just won't allow him. Now if GB wants to wasted another season with an over-the-hill, selfish QB, then that's on them and that's why they won't win the Big Game.

So when we think about that, Brett gives them a LESSER chance of winning because 1) He'll break down at the end of the season, and 2) he just can't do what he used to do. He said that he's done and GB should leave it at that. If the Packers want to win this season and the next, they're better off letting these young guys play because they are the future - not Favre.

infantrycak
07-17-2008, 02:46 PM
All I have read on this site is how stupid it is to expect kubiak to allow an open competition for the QB job here. The rationale was that a team needs to know who it's "guy" is so that the team can rally around him and there's not a divided locker room. That's not ME talking...that's 98% of the board saying that (I prefer the QB to earn his job). Yet...there's nobody responding to gary's idea of having Brett compete for the job with Aaron Rodgers. Why? Here's why: Because the only reason people DON'T want an open competition in Houston is because there's a pretty good chance that someone other than Schaub will win the job. And we can't have that, can we?.

Unadulterated horse manure. What we have is a bunch of folks who like QB arguments running around making ASSumptions about what is in the coaches' minds. There has been zero, zilch, nada stated by anyone with the team that Kubiak hasn't evaluated Schaub from day one he got here and concluded he gives the Texans the best chance to win or that he wouldn't play Sage if he thought Sage gave them a better chance to win.

gary
07-17-2008, 03:01 PM
The team in general has a very small chance of winning the Superbowl, let alone even making the game. Brett ran out of gas at the end of last season and he will because he's aging and just can't play like he used to. He himself even said that he cannot be fully dedicated to the team because his body just won't allow him. Now if GB wants to wasted another season with an over-the-hill, selfish QB, then that's on them and that's why they won't win the Big Game.

So when we think about that, Brett gives them a LESSER chance of winning because 1) He'll break down at the end of the season, and 2) he just can't do what he used to do. He said that he's done and GB should leave it at that. If the Packers want to win this season and the next, they're better off letting these young guys play because they are the future - not Favre.So why worry about his relese and trading him? Explain. And they do have a decent chance of at least making it back to the NFC game if they do run out the same team again.

Blazing Arrow
07-17-2008, 03:10 PM
Unadulterated horse manure. What we have is a bunch of folks who like QB arguments running around making ASSumptions about what is in the coaches' minds. There has been zero, zilch, nada stated by anyone with the team that Kubiak hasn't evaluated Schaub from day one he got here and concluded he gives the Texans the best chance to win or that he wouldn't play Sage if he thought Sage gave them a better chance to win.

What was his take on Carr when he first arived?

GuerillaBlack
07-17-2008, 03:17 PM
So why worry about his relese and trading him? Explain. And they do have a decent chance of at least making it back to the NFC game if they do run out the same team again.

Because, they don't want him to go to another team either and possibly cause trouble for them. Especially if he goes to a divisional rival. They'll let him come back to the Packers, but he'll be helping Aaron Rodgers out.

And no, I think they have a better chance of winning with a young Rodgers than an aging Brett. I mean, Brett still has it, but Aaron Rodgers isn't getting any younger either.

Brett should audition to write for The Passion.

WWJD
07-17-2008, 03:22 PM
He doesn't need things spelled out for him like a preschooler. Once they drafted AR, The writings been on the wall for a couple of years now......& lots of it he wrote it by intimating that this might be his last year. Furthermore, he wasn't exactly forthright with whether he wanted to come back or not either.


I knew what play you were speaking of, & that's the point. that's been his MO for about a good 6-7 years in the playoffs...........regardless of what he did in the regular season.

& No player wants to hold the clipboard but what makes that so un-feasible for him? He's not any more special than any other great Qb at this stage in their careers he's just the only one who can't make up his mind for 4 years running whether he wants to retire or not.

Part of the problem is noone, not even himself, can see him doing anything else in the realm of football or competitive sports like lots of the other greats transition on to. I mean seriously, could you see Favre sitting on set with Dan, Boomer & shannon with that ratty ass hat on looking like he hasn't shaved in a week? You here others talking about finding that "thing" to substitute for football & i don't think Favre has found that yet. I think he wants to retire he just can't b/c he doesn't know what he's gonna do with himself once he finally hangs 'em up.

Somebody needs to offer him a spot on NFL network doing something...so this guy can just see that life without playing football professionally can still be enjoyable.

Don't know Brett but I'm fairly sure that he's not clipboard holding material...he's just not going to do that. And really it would serve no purpose for him to do that. He might as well stay where he is in Mississippi if that's the only option the Pack has for him. And as far as my understanding goes that's what they've told him. That's why he is telling them to release him.

The Cowboys did it for Emmitt. I don't see much difference. Exceptional player wants to still play. His team doesn't want him anymore so they release him. Seems real easy to me.

infantrycak
07-17-2008, 03:22 PM
What was his take on Carr when he first arived?

Supposedly that he was salvageable. I am by no means saying Kubiak can't make mistakes, just that there is no reason to believe he hasn't sat through every practice to date and come to the conclusion Schaub gives them the best chance on Sunday.

gary
07-17-2008, 03:37 PM
Because, they don't want him to go to another team either and possibly cause trouble for them. Especially if he goes to a divisional rival.How so? I thought he is out of gas already. Are you saying that he still has game left?

Mr teX
07-17-2008, 03:40 PM
Don't know Brett but I'm fairly sure that he's not clipboard holding material...he's just not going to do that. And really it would serve no purpose for him to do that. He might as well stay where he is in Mississippi if that's the only option the Pack has for him. And as for as my understanding goes that's what they've told him. That's why he is telling them to release him.

The Cowboys did it for Emmitt. I don't see much difference. Exceptional player wants to still play. His team doesn't want him anymore so they release him. Seems real easy to me.

well that's on him, but the packers organization is still under no obligation to grant him his request, he's just gotta take his medicine & live with the decision that he made about retirement........that or hope that the franchise makes some kind of deal to ship him elsewhere.


What's getting lost in this whole talk is whether AR can play or not & IMO from what he showed in the Thursday nighter last year against dallas as well as the team he's gonna have around him, i think he's gonna be fine as long as this favre thing doesn't become too much of a distraction for the team. Not lead them to the superbowl great... But i could easily see him in the playoffs with GB, how far they go is another story....but i would say the same thing about this team if Favre were qb.

gary
07-17-2008, 03:56 PM
If the Cowboys did it for Emit why won't GB do it for Brett? There really is not a reason.

WWJD
07-17-2008, 04:05 PM
If the Cowboys did it for Emit why won't GB do it for Brett? There really is not a reason.

The reason is that Brett and the management don't get along....they COULD do it...they SHOULD do it...but they don't have to and I guess to make their point they aren't.

And that's a shame after all he's done as a Packer. A real shame.

gary
07-17-2008, 04:19 PM
The reason is that Brett and the management don't get along....they COULD do it...they SHOULD do it...but they don't have to and I guess to make their point they aren't.

And that's a shame after all he's done as a Packer. A real shame.This takes care of some other folks saying that it would cause some trouble because it wouldn't.

PapaL
07-17-2008, 04:40 PM
Actually no, becuase of the size of his contract they can really only bluff to keep him on the bench, not to mention the fan reaction the first game Rogers screws up. The real story is they dont want him as a distraction to the development of thier 2 young QB's (Brohm and Rogers). Unfortunately Favre is bigger than the Packers front office and he knows it. I totally agree that they can't afford to let him go to chicago or minnesota, but he will play this year one way or another and the chances that heads will roll if the packers stink it up without him are better than the chances he will swallow his pride and retire gracefully. IMHO.

It's the same salary he made last year. They didn't sign any big name people that I am aware of. So yes they could keep him on the roster if they really wanted to. Plus I'm sure they could do it out of spite also, hahaha.

gary
07-17-2008, 04:56 PM
Both sides are making a very large deal out of this when it really doesn't have to be and it's Green Bay even more than Brett IMHO.

gary
07-17-2008, 05:51 PM
I'm so sick of all of this BS give Brett what he wants and release him and let the Packers move on and sadden their very own fans with AR if that is what they want to do and then this will all be over. The Packers wouldn't have to deal with Brett ever again. That is all. Isn't that what GB wants not to have to deal with Brett ever again? Anyone agree with me?

GuerillaBlack
07-17-2008, 06:02 PM
I'm so sick of all of this BS give Brett what he wants and release him and let the Packers move on and sadden their very own fans with AR if that is what they want to do and then this will all be over. The Packers wouldn't have to deal with Brett ever again. That is all. Isn't that what GB wants not to have to deal with Brett ever again? Anyone agree with me?

Kind of. I think many wanted Brett Favre to retire a Packer and not a Viking, etc. Also, Brett SAID he was retiring. This is the first time that I had actually believed him. For the past four years, I knew he was coming back, but with the breakdown at the podium this year, I thought he would retire. I thought there would be a ceremony and everything at the first Packer home game. Then, Brett would be in the media booth, or on TV, etc.

But then he comes back on his word, yet AGAIN. This crap is getting hella old.

PapaL
07-17-2008, 06:05 PM
If you can't believe a 38 year old crying man, who can you believe?

I wouldn't give him what he wants just because he's pissed me off with this same crap every year. He wants to act like a small child; treat him like one. Make an example and move on.

gary
07-17-2008, 06:13 PM
Kind of. I think many wanted Brett Favre to retire a Packer and not a Viking, etc. Also, Brett SAID he was retiring. This is the first time that I had actually believed him. For the past four years, I knew he was coming back, but with the breakdown at the podium this year, I thought he would retire. I thought there would be a ceremony and everything at the first Packer home game. Then, Brett would be in the media booth, or on TV, etc.

But then he comes back on his word, yet AGAIN. This crap is getting hella old.That is what I'm saying nothing against you people but dis is really getting hella old so both sides just end it now.

gary
07-17-2008, 06:17 PM
If you can't believe a 38 year old crying man, who can you believe?

I wouldn't give him what he wants just because he's pissed me off with this same crap every year. He wants to act like a small child; treat him like one. Make an example and move on.But he's not going to do that so just move on with AR.

GuerillaBlack
07-17-2008, 06:40 PM
It's payback to Brett for holding them hostage all of those years ;).

gary
07-17-2008, 06:57 PM
It's payback to Brett for holding them hostage all of those years ;).How ever you wish to think of it as but it's just hurting both sides and just keeps going and going and does not help either side at all. Agree?

Texecutioner
07-17-2008, 07:03 PM
I'm so sick of all of this BS give Brett what he wants and release him and let the Packers move on and sadden their very own fans with AR if that is what they want to do and then this will all be over. The Packers wouldn't have to deal with Brett ever again. That is all. Isn't that what GB wants not to have to deal with Brett ever again? Anyone agree with me?

Yeah I do Gary. It seems that the Packers want to have it both ways. They want to tell Brett that they are moving on and are okay with having Rogers, but then again they don't want to see Brett lighting up the score board anywhere else, and say to themselves that they made a mistake by letting him go. They also don't want to have to face Brett if he goes to the Vikings. To me, it seems like they are being just as indecisive as Brett has been now.

Make up your mind GB. Either let him come back and help you guys get to another SB, or let him go to another team and GB and Brett can both move on and go their separate ways.

gary
07-17-2008, 07:20 PM
Yeah I do Gary. It seems that the Packers want to have it both ways. They want to tell Brett that they are moving on and are okay with having Rogers, but then again they don't want to see Brett lighting up the score board anywhere else, and say to themselves that they made a mistake by letting him go. They also don't want to have to face Brett if he goes to the Vikings. To me, it seems like they are being just as indecisive as Brett has been now.

Make up your mind GB. Either let him come back and help you guys get to another SB, or let him go to another team and GB and Brett can both move on and go their separate ways. Agree. People blame Brett and make him out to be the bad guy here and I do as well for him being a jerk about this whole thing but GB is just as much to blame here as well IMO.

GuerillaBlack
07-17-2008, 07:30 PM
I don't think GB can have as much blame as Brett. Seriously, with the amount of times Brett has flip-flopped on them and held them out until training camp, and I think even on into training camp.

Watch once he gets released, he says he wants to retire again.

GP
07-17-2008, 07:50 PM
And to the extent we've had this discussion regarding Schaub and Rosenfels (and BTW, I seem to remember a few more Rosenfels supporters than you do), I still don't see where that warrants the shot at the Texans/fans you took for this unrelated story.

Oh, boo-hoo. Seriously now.

You act like I am some sort of secret, underground mole trying to kill your beloved team. And you're the protector of all things Houston Texans.

Quit trying to paint me as a traitor and scoundrel. I have my opinions, and I don't see anything on this board every reaching a total consensus on each topic that's discussed. Hell, even STATS are debated and given their own spin by EACH poster who thinks differently on what matters, doesn't matter, and how the stat is to be "interpreted."

Either ignore me, if I'm that much of a pain to you, or just move on.

I agree that it's fun to watch the Favre/Packers drama. And I happen to think that the best justice for the game itself is if he isn't allowed to have his way. In the end, when he looks back on it, he'll be glad he didn't come back. He needs to be saved from himself.

gary
07-17-2008, 07:52 PM
I don't think GB can have as much blame as Brett. Seriously, with the amount of times Brett has flip-flopped on them and held them out until training camp, and I think even on into training camp.

Watch once he gets released, he says he wants to retire again.Maybe so and we all should see what happens overtime. Draging it on like this just isn't what either side needs with the season coming up.

ChampionTexan
07-17-2008, 08:03 PM
Oh, boo-hoo. Seriously now.

You act like I am some sort of secret, underground mole trying to kill your beloved team. And you're the protector of all things Houston Texans.

Quit trying to paint me as a traitor and scoundrel. I have my opinions, and I don't see anything on this board every reaching a total consensus on each topic that's discussed. Hell, even STATS are debated and given their own spin by EACH poster who thinks differently on what matters, doesn't matter, and how the stat is to be "interpreted."

Either ignore me, if I'm that much of a pain to you, or just move on.

I agree that it's fun to watch the Favre/Packers drama. And I happen to think that the best justice for the game itself is if he isn't allowed to have his way. In the end, when he looks back on it, he'll be glad he didn't come back. He needs to be saved from himself.

There's nobody on this board I have on ignore, and you're not going to be the first. Just like the Favre thing, a board of everyone saying the same thing would get old in about 10 seconds. You're entitled to your opinion no question. I just thing it's kind of telling that on a thread that in no way shape or form had anything to do with the Texans (beyond the simple fact that they are a member of the NFL), you chose to say that if it happened to us, we'd handle it completely wrong. Then again, if all you can do is hammer, pretty much everything's going to look like a nail to you.

GP
07-17-2008, 08:21 PM
Supposedly that he was salvageable. I am by no means saying Kubiak can't make mistakes, just that there is no reason to believe he hasn't sat through every practice to date and come to the conclusion Schaub gives them the best chance on Sunday.

Kubiak endorses Schaub because Kubiak is old school. He's a former QB himself, and it appears that Kubiak is of the belief that you name a guy "the man" and you move on. But that, IMO, does not preclude Kubiak from (at times) having some deep thought on whether or not Schaub is going to absolutely make it or not. I think he desires for Schaub to make it stick, but Kubiak also knows he's the HC and that Schaub and Schaub alone has to solidify his role as the starting QB.

I am sure there were plenty of times last season, especially when Sage helped us beat the Broncos on national TV, that Kubiak thought he had it pretty good to be in this sort of shape after just recently having David Carr as the face of the offense. When you throw your backup out there, and he wins 3 or 4 games, I think you have to be happy either way.

I know you dislike my stance on this, but I still maintain that Schaub is in no way a cinch to remain the starter. Hell, if anything else...it's due to Schaub's injuries. He was out for a long time, it was a shoulder, and he's going to get hit again and landed upon at some point in the future. I don't like the odds.

GP
07-17-2008, 08:31 PM
There's nobody on this board I have on ignore, and you're not going to be the first. Just like the Favre thing, a board of everyone saying the same thing would get old in about 10 seconds. You're entitled to your opinion no question. I just thing it's kind of telling that on a thread that in no way shape or form had anything to do with the Texans (beyond the simple fact that they are a member of the NFL), you chose to say that if it happened to us, we'd handle it completely wrong. Then again, if all you can do is hammer, pretty much everything's going to look like a nail to you.

I brought up what gary said to make a point: Why isn't anybody replying to gary and saying "No, you have to name the QB for their to be unity..."?

This is not un-related. It's a way of me showing people that the "Name Your QB And By Golly He's The Anointed One" argument is not a good one.

Am I wrong when I say "If Brett Favre came here, Schaub would be old news and everybody would want Brett to be the starter"? I just gotta' know. Because the argument in the Sage-Schaub thread, in favor of Schaub as starter, is that you gotta' name your QB and let him be the guy. That was probably one of THE biggest pro-Schaub points that was made by multiple people. It's intent is to shut down the whole conversation before it even gets started.

So I just wondered why nobody took the time to reply to what gary said, by in essence saying "Well, just like here in Houston...you gotta' name your starter for the health of the locker room..."

No, if Brett were here tomorrow...there'd be 1,000 posts on the Brett Is A Texan! thread and they'd all be drooling over getting the champ the ball. He carries that sort of weight. Well, what happened to Schaub being named the starter and getting the ball? Schaub be expected to move over.

But neither Schaub, nor Sage, carry that sort of weight. Yet we can't even discuss, on this board, the possibility of there being a QB competition between them. The minute someone mentions it, all hell breaks loose and all those in favor of having a wide-open competition at QB are branded as traitors, dummies, and Schaub haters. The end.

Just wondered why nobody gave the standard pat answer to gary's post.

ChampionTexan
07-17-2008, 08:55 PM
I brought up what gary said to make a point: Why isn't anybody replying to gary and saying "No, you have to name the QB for their to be unity..."?

This is not un-related. It's a way of me showing people that the "Name Your QB And By Golly He's The Anointed One" argument is not a good one.

Am I wrong when I say "If Brett Favre came here, Schaub would be old news and everybody would want Brett to be the starter"? I just gotta' know. Because the argument in the Sage-Schaub thread, in favor of Schaub as starter, is that you gotta' name your QB and let him be the guy. That was probably one of THE biggest pro-Schaub points that was made by multiple people. It's intent is to shut down the whole conversation before it even gets started.

So I just wondered why nobody took the time to reply to what gary said, by in essence saying "Well, just like here in Houston...you gotta' name your starter for the health of the locker room..."

No, if Brett were here tomorrow...there'd be 1,000 posts on the Brett Is A Texan! thread and they'd all be drooling over getting the champ the ball. He carries that sort of weight. Well, what happened to Schaub being named the starter and getting the ball? Schaub be expected to move over.

But neither Schaub, nor Sage, carry that sort of weight. Yet we can't even discuss, on this board, the possibility of there being a QB competition between them. The minute someone mentions it, all hell breaks loose and all those in favor of having a wide-open competition at QB are branded as traitors, dummies, and Schaub haters. The end.

Just wondered why nobody gave the standard pat answer to gary's post.

See, we have a fundamental disagreement that can't be answered. You're saying Schaub's the starter because Kubiak's deemed him so because of some reason other than his objective and honest evaluation of the two QB's (or I think that's what you're saying). I'm saying Schaub's the starter because Kubiak thinks he's better, and if he ever changes his mind about that, Schaub won't be the starter. The fact that he doesn't talk to the media about his QB evaluations doesn't mean their not going on. I can't prove they are, but then again, you can't prove they're not.

I believe Kubiak's made a determination based on two years of first-hand experience with Sage, and one year with Matt (plus pre-acquisition due diligence) that Schaub is a better QB. Do I think he will be oblivious to indications to the contrary over reasonable periods of time - no I don't. Do I think he'll question his ability to evaluate if Schaub has a bad game or two - no I don't. Do I think he'll let anyone outside of his inner circle know if he is thinking of making a switch - no I don't.

Oh yeah - Brett Favre, Brett Favre, Brett Favre (just thought I'd get that in since that's kind of what this thread is about).

gary
07-17-2008, 09:26 PM
I brought up what gary said to make a point: Why isn't anybody replying to gary and saying "No, you have to name the QB for their to be unity..."?


So I just wondered why nobody took the time to reply to what gary said, by in essence saying "Well, just like here in Houston...you gotta' name your starter for the health of the locker room..."
Just wondered why nobody gave the standard pat answer to gary's post.Maybe because you are wrong I see players having a battle every year for their starting job and sometimes even QB's and don't tell me that I am wrong because I see this happen all the time so that is not true.

Drew_Smoke
07-17-2008, 09:32 PM
He's Brett FRICKIN' Favre. He does have carte blanche to do as he pleases. The Pack was on the brink of the Big Dance. I want to win and would want #4driving the bus.

The best thing #12 could have said was just that..."He's Brett FRICKIN' Farve. Whatever he says...."

Anyone see his interviews on FOX? Could've had Moss. Lied about talking to Mooch. I'd wanna stick it to them as well.


If I am Packer fan I am throwing snowballs at the coach until I get run out.

And if he goes to Minn, that first game will cop ratings like the Clots v. Pats did last year.

gary
07-17-2008, 09:55 PM
There had even been talk at one time that the Texans may have a battle for the starting QB job.

TK_Gamer
07-17-2008, 10:46 PM
There had even been talk at one time that the Texans may have a battle for the starting QB job.

Only on this board..I could be wrong but I remember 0 national stories giving any weight to the schaub/sage argument. The one story I remember basicly made a joke about the length of the thread that confirmed Schaub as the better QB. Some people can't move on, that's all.

gary
07-17-2008, 10:46 PM
Did you all hear what former Packer and Hall Of Famer LB had to say on On The Record about Brett tonight?

Kaiser Toro
07-17-2008, 10:53 PM
Gilbert Brown has got a point about Favre matter (http://overthetop.kansascity.com/?q=node/102)

Former Kansas and Packers defensive tackle/human road block Gilbert Brown is scheduled to go into the Packers Hall of Fame this Saturday. He'll be inducted along with Frank Winters, who, by the way, lives here in Kansas City.

The problem is that Winters will be presented at the Hall by none other than Brett Favre.

And according to Green Bay TV station WBAY (hey, isn't that Frank Boal's old station?), Brown is a little concerned that the messy Favre situation could totally distract from what should be a glorious day for Brown and Winters.

"The main thing I want everybody to remember, this is not Brett Favre Day. It's (supposed to be) Frankie Winters Day and Gilbert Brown Day. We don't want to be remembered for (it being the day) that Brett Favre was reinstated back into the Packers or for (the day) he was let go, or whatever it was," Brown said.

My guess is, unless the Packers welcome Favre back this week as the rightful starting quarterback, he won't be presenting anyone at the Hall, not even a close friend like Winters.

gary
07-17-2008, 10:54 PM
Only on this board..I could be wrong but I remember 0 national stories giving any weight to the schaub/sage argument. The one story I remember basicly made a joke about the length of the thread that confirmed Schaub as the better QB. Some people can't move on, that's all.Brett and the Packers and Brett are going to have to move on for the sake of both sides that's what I am saying. Agree?

PapaL
07-18-2008, 07:00 AM
Great now there's two Bretts the Packers have to deal with? Sheesh...

PapaL
07-18-2008, 07:19 AM
Artilce by Don Banks Link (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/don_banks/07/17/favre.snaps/index.html):

This is going to get the Favre apologists' undies in a bunch, but here goes: From my vantage point, Favre, the past two weeks, has come off as just another selfish superstar who wants what he wants, regardless of the consequences to his team or his ex-teammates. Favre's been great for the Packers. But the Packers have also been great to Favre, and he's seeing everything as a one-way street about now. Just the way so many of the great ones eventually do, after they've been built up and lionized and called legendary so often that it becomes part of their name...

But the warm fuzziness of his final glorious season in Green Bay, and his unique relationship with that town, that team and its special fan base has been altered. Perhaps only slightly, but perhaps significantly more than that. Time will ultimately tell, but my gut tells me nobody's going to come out of this one looking like a winner. Not Favre. Not the Packers. And not all those Cheeseheads who desperately wanted to believe Favre and Green Bay were one of those rare NFL marriages built to last...

But I'd like to ask Favre this: Do you think you'd be the kind of teammate you'd want to have if you walked in and yanked the rug out beneath Rodgers at this point, just days before the start of training camp? Isn't that the kind of me-first stunt that a respected team leader like Favre was never afraid to call out a teammate for? Isn't that right, Javon Walker?...

I'm not convinced he gives a rat's behind, but my sense is that popular opinion is starting to shift away from Favre's position in this stand-off, even as beloved and iconic a figure as he is. That movement to rally fan support for Favre in Wisconsin this week hasn't exactly generated overwhelming response. Less than 200 folks gathered in Green Bay on Sunday, and a Monday rally in the Milwaukee suburbs drew 30 people, according to media reports.

Mr teX
07-18-2008, 10:40 AM
The GB front office is doing what's best for the team in the long run; what brett wants at this point cannot enter into the picture. I keep hearing people say "well if they don't want him to be their starter, why don't they just release him.." or "he deserves that much.." . Frankly, he deserves nothing after the way he's been acting.

& there is nothing wrong with GB not wanting to get something back in return for moving on from Favre. I guarantee u that if any other team fielded a good offer for him, that deal would be done. Again.... doing what's best for the organization, not letting father time Favre dictate how they go about shaping this team up for the future anymore.

He put himself in this position.

gary
07-18-2008, 11:11 AM
Artilce by Don Banks Link (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/don_banks/07/17/favre.snaps/index.html):This story states that Brett is being a jerk about this and I don't disagree with that at all. But once again, does GB want this to linger into the season?

WWJD
07-18-2008, 11:15 AM
The GB front office is doing what's best for the team in the long run; what brett wants at this point cannot enter into the picture. I keep hearing people say "well if they don't want him to be their starter, why don't they just release him.." or "he deserves that much.." . Frankly, he deserves nothing after the way he's been acting.

& there is nothing wrong with GB not wanting to get something back in return for moving on from Favre. I guarantee u that if any other team fielded a good offer for him, that deal would be done. Again.... doing what's best for the organization, not letting father time Favre dictate how they go about shaping this team up for the future anymore.

He put himself in this position.

No..when you have great players who have meant so much to your organization you show them some love and respect...this seems to just be the GB front office wanting to make their point and have the final say. Which is their choice.

But Brett deserves more from that team..he's defined that team for a long, long time and whether they like him, hate him, think he's spoiled, whatever they should grant him his release. To me it's real simple. They can move on, he can move on and all is well in Packerland.

Jerry did it with Emmitt. They should do it for Brett.

HOU-TEX
07-18-2008, 11:17 AM
This story states that Brett is being a jerk about this and I don't disagree with that at all. But once again, does GB want this to linger into the season?

I'd hope not Gary. I would think there could possibly be a locker room separation if it does drag out. There would likely be players thinking Favre got screwed by the Pack and others thinking it's time to move on to the Rodgers era.

But hey, we play them this year so let the diversity begin! :splits:

gary
07-18-2008, 11:28 AM
No..when you have great players who have meant so much to your organization you show them some love and respect...this seems to just be the GB front office wanting to make their point and have the final say. Which is their choice.

But Brett deserves more from that team..he's defined that team for a long, long time and whether they like him, hate him, think he's spoiled, whatever they should grant him his release. To me it's real simple. They can move on, he can move on and all is well in Packerland.

Jerry did it with Emmitt. They should do it for Brett.Agree.

gary
07-18-2008, 11:57 AM
I'd hope not Gary. I would think there could possibly be a locker room separation if it does drag out. There would likely be players thinking Favre got screwed by the Pack and others thinking it's time to move on to the Rodgers era.See so it will hurt the whole Org. in the long run. That is my point here.

Mr teX
07-18-2008, 12:19 PM
No..when you have great players who have meant so much to your organization you show them some love and respect...this seems to just be the GB front office wanting to make their point and have the final say. Which is their choice.

But Brett deserves more from that team..he's defined that team for a long, long time and whether they like him, hate him, think he's spoiled, whatever they should grant him his release. To me it's real simple. They can move on, he can move on and all is well in Packerland.

Jerry did it with Emmitt. They should do it for Brett.

Again, there is nothing wrong with GB trying to get whatever they can for moving on from favre. Teams do it all the time with other players....even legends. Releasing him is not their only option of moving on from favre, it's his only good option of moving away from them so that he gets everything he wants. (starting job, playing for a contender etc..)

This would be him again dictating to them what he wants, even though its not in the organizations best interest now, or the future. Besides, if it's just as simple as him wanting to play football again, why hasn't he filed his reinstatement papers yet & put the ball in back in GB's court? What does he fear that he hasn't done this yet? He's not entitled to play for a contending team, and as i've said before, if the right deal came along, they trade him in a heartbeat to be done with this whole fiasco........that is if they are truly committed to moving on without him.

You keep saying "jerry did it for emmitt..", but Emmitt didn't yo-yo the cowboys franchise for 3 years about whether or not he wanted to retire.

gary
07-18-2008, 12:44 PM
Again, there is nothing wrong with GB trying to get whatever they can for moving on from favre. Teams do it all the time with other players....even legends. Releasing him is not their only option of moving on from favre, it's his only good option of moving away from them so that he gets everything he wants. (starting job, playing for a contender etc..)

This would be him again dictating to them what he wants, even though its not in the organizations best interest now, or the future. Besides, if it's just as simple as him wanting to play football again, why hasn't he filed his reinstatement papers yet & put the ball in back in GB's court? What does he fear that he hasn't done this yet? He's not entitled to play for a contending team, and as i've said before, if the right deal came along, they trade him in a heartbeat to be done with this whole fiasco........that is if they are truly committed to moving on without him.

You keep saying "jerry did it for emmitt..", but Emmitt didn't yo-yo the cowboys franchise for 3 years about whether or not he wanted to retire.Even though Emit did not screw them around they still released him. Didn't they? So that does not really matter. They could sure as hell do it for Brett.

WWJD
07-18-2008, 12:50 PM
And the ball is back in my court....

Well like I said this could be very easily settled because it's obvious Brett won't come to the Packers as the backup. Nor should he.

Release him, let him go. They move on with Aaron. Brett gets what he wants. Problem solved.

Obviously I KNOW they don't have to do that and they said they won't.

The reason I bring up Jerry is because he did the right thing and let Emmitt go. Actually there were some hard feelings there because Emmitt was insistent that he hadn't lost anything, the Cowboys felt he had, etc.

But Jerry DID the right thing and out of respect for Emmitt he released him. Emmitt did his time in AZ and retired as a Cowboy. What could have been a nasty situation such as this with Brett turned out not to be because they let a guy go with some respect for what he had done for the organization.

Sure Emmitt's case is different than Brett's but the solution should be the same.

I watched Brett's interview and he said sure he had thought about uprooting his family and moving to another team.

It's obvious the Packers don't want him.

gary
07-18-2008, 01:00 PM
And the ball is back in my court....

Well like I said this could be very easily settled because it's obvious Brett won't come to the Packers as the backup. Nor should he.

Release him, let him go. They move on with Aaron. Brett gets what he wants. Problem solved.

Obviously I KNOW they don't have to do that and they said they won't.

The reason I bring up Jerry is because he did the right thing and let Emmitt go. Actually there were some hard feelings there because Emmitt was insistent that he hadn't lost anything, the Cowboys felt he had, etc.

But Jerry DID the right thing and out of respect for Emmitt he released him. Emmitt did his time in AZ and retired as a Cowboy. What could have been a nasty situation such as this with Brett turned out not to be because they let a guy go with some respect for what he had done for the organization.

Sure Emmitt's case is different than Brett's but the solution should be the same.

I watched Brett's interview and he said sure he had thought about uprooting his family and moving to another team.

It's obvious the Packers don't want him.Jerry did not just release Emitt out of respect for the organization it had to be a huge monkey off of their backs.

hobie
07-18-2008, 01:03 PM
I am not sure how the Emmitt/Cowboys thing ended, don't really care, but I think that Jerry and the coaching staff realized that his best days were over and that he finally got the record with the Star on his helmet, and that it was not in the best interest, both for financial reason and for the team. He lost a few steps, and the team let him go.
Now the thing with BF, he still has the ability to take games over, and well if I am the Packers, and I have BF signed, well regardless, he is under contract. Retire or deal with the fact you will be #2. Now if a good trade comes along so I can build my team for the future, sure, we'll let ya go.
Gary, that was a good point you brought up, they could do that for BF, but when he still has game left, you not only lose a solid QB, but to get nothing in return, well then you sell the team short on that. They both owe each other, and well, the end result is...................

gary
07-18-2008, 01:13 PM
I am not sure how the Emmitt/Cowboys thing ended, don't really care, but I think that Jerry and the coaching staff realized that his best days were over and that he finally got the record with the Star on his helmet, and that it was not in the best interest, both for financial reason and for the team. He lost a few steps, and the team let him go.
Now the thing with BF, he still has the ability to take games over, and well if I am the Packers, and I have BF signed, well regardless, he is under contract. Retire or deal with the fact you will be #2. Now if a good trade comes along so I can build my team for the future, sure, we'll let ya go.
Gary, that was a good point you brought up, they could do that for BF, but when he still has game left, you not only lose a solid QB, but to get nothing in return, well then you sell the team short on that. They both owe each other, and well, the end result is...................If he still has game why not play him?

hobie
07-18-2008, 01:14 PM
If he still has game why not play him?

As we are finding out, I guess GB wants to move on..........only they really know for sure .

gary
07-18-2008, 01:23 PM
As we are finding out, I guess GB wants to move on..........only they really know for sure .Release him. I am sorry but I stand by my word.

Mr teX
07-18-2008, 01:37 PM
If he still has game why not play him?

Yeah they still released emmitt, but part of the reason the organization is treating favre the way they are is b/c of his antics the last 3 years. Had he not done that, we might not even be debating this. Even so, why should the organization cave in once again for the sake of his demands when they've done that for him 3 years already? When is enough enough?

the packers are thinking about the future in both instances regardless of how this plays out; favre is just thinking season to season & unfortunately for him, franchises don't operate that way.


The reality of it is Hobie is right, they both owe each other & they both could still play this better to where it works out best for both parties. but this whole notion that Favre has no ulterior motive, & he should be given leeway b/c of what he's done is weak imo. When does he start to think about the packers is the question that he needs to answer for them; he hasn't answered that question yet.

Polo
07-18-2008, 01:47 PM
I don't fault the Pack one bit...

It's business...Screw happy feelings...

Eat or be eaten...

gary
07-18-2008, 01:52 PM
Yeah they still released emmitt, but part of the reason the organization is treating favre the way they are is b/c of his antics the last 3 years. Had he not done that, we might not even be debating this. Even so, why should the organization cave in once again for the sake of his demands when they've done that for him 3 years already? When is enough enough?

the packers are thinking about the future in both instances regardless of how this plays out; favre is just thinking season to season & unfortunately for him, franchises don't operate that way.


The reality of it is Hobie is right, they both owe each other & they both could still play this better to where it works out best for both parties. but this whole notion that Favre has no ulterior motive, & he should be given leeway b/c of what he's done is weak imo. When does he start to think about the packers is the question that he needs to answer for them; he hasn't answered that question yet.Does this get either side anywhere? No. Anyone agree?

ChampionTexan
07-18-2008, 02:08 PM
I don't fault the Pack one bit...

It's business...Screw happy feelings...

Eat or be eaten...
Yeah, but if Brett Favre decides to go scorched earth on this, who's going to get eaten?

The following is from an interview with Willie Davis - Packer HOF Defensive End:
"It is a bit of sadness," Davis said this week in a telephone interview with The Associated Press. "And it's a bit of sadness because I know how much of a burden this places on everybody."

But he hasn't quite seen anything quite like this.

"It's not only a surprise to me," Davis said. "I cannot believe the magnitude of this thing."

Now Davis' biggest hope is that the situation doesn't devolve into some sort of training-camp showdown between Favre and his heir apparent, Aaron Rodgers. As far as Davis is concerned, such a confrontation could only harm the team.

"I cannot see how it wouldn't," Davis said. "Plus, I think it's a decision that would split the club into several pieces. Some would be in Brett's camp, some in Aaron's camp. That's the quickest way to start getting on a losing path."

I said before, it's a giant game of chicken with the Packers hoping Brett blinks before his legacy is screwed up beyond repair, and Brett hoping the Packers blink before their season gets torched.

Mr teX
07-18-2008, 02:15 PM
Does this get either side anywhere? No. Anyone agree?

If you look at it superficially........no. but if you look at it for what it is...

lets see, it gets him no where regardless of what he/the pack decide to do. He can't afford to sit out a year, & ultimately his playing days are numbered.

On the other hand, If the packers are indeed right about AR, then it shows they made the right decision to push favre to the side & continue on with a winning team. Hell even if they are wrong, they still have brohm behind rodgers so they effectively have at least 2 years before this may come back to bite them.

They are taking their shot & they've got at least a 50% chance of coming out of this ok......those are pretty good odds.

gary
07-18-2008, 02:15 PM
Yeah, but if Brett Favre decides to go scorched earth on this, who's going to get eaten?

The following is from an interview with Willie Davis - Packer HOF Defensive End:


I said before, it's a giant game of chicken with the Packers hoping Brett blinks before his legacy is screwed up beyond repair, and Brett hoping the Packers blink before their season gets torched.Davis is thinking the samething that I am.

Mr teX
07-18-2008, 02:25 PM
Yeah, but if Brett Favre decides to go scorched earth on this, who's going to get eaten?

The following is from an interview with Willie Davis - Packer HOF Defensive End:


I said before, it's a giant game of chicken with the Packers hoping Brett blinks before his legacy is screwed up beyond repair, and Brett hoping the Packers blink before their season gets torched.

They were a good overall team last year, top 15 defense, great weapons on offense with an emerging young star at RB... what about that suggests that their season will be a wash if he doesn't play with them this year? I understand the whole distraction thing, but that could go either way. I think you're selling the talent on that team short. Brett's just 1 guy.... & he's no longer that 3-time MVP guy either.

ChampionTexan
07-18-2008, 03:15 PM
They were a good overall team last year, top 15 defense, great weapons on offense with an emerging young star at RB... what about that suggests that their season will be a wash if he doesn't play with them this year? I understand the whole distraction thing, but that could go either way. I think you're selling the talent on that team short. Brett's just 1 guy.... & he's no longer that 3-time MVP guy either.


I'm saying the season will be a wash if he does play with them this season (as a backup QB). Maybe they'll overcome it, but if you want to look for an example, all you have to do is go back to the 2004 Eagles who went 13-3 and made an appearance in the Super Bowl, and followed that up by going 6-10 in 2005 (coincidentally, the year T.O. said they would be undefeated if Brett Favre were their QB). And if you're going to ask me if I'm comparing Brett Favre to T.O., Yep - right now, I'm not sure there's a big difference.

As to talent overcoming the distraction, All I will say is that in 2006, Seattle became the only team since 2000 to lose the Super Bowl and make the playoffs the next year, and that was only because they went 9-7 in an incredibly crappy division. That's seven talented teams taking nosedives. Maybe it doesn't always happen, but I guess where I'm coming from is if you're Ted Thompson, why do you take that chance - particularly when it's costing you over $12 Million to do so?

Mr teX
07-18-2008, 03:31 PM
I'm saying the season will be a wash if he does play with them this season (as a backup QB). Maybe they'll overcome it, but if you want to look for an example, all you have to do is go back to the 2004 Eagles who went 13-3 and made an appearance in the Super Bowl, and followed that up by going 6-10 in 2005 (coincidentally, the year T.O. said they would be undefeated if Brett Favre were their QB). And if you're going to ask me if I'm comparing Brett Favre to T.O., Yep - right now, I'm not sure there's a big difference.

As to talent overcoming the distraction, All I will say is that in 2006, Seattle became the only team since 2000 to lose the Super Bowl and make the playoffs the next year, and that was only because they went 9-7 in an incredibly crappy division. That's seven talented teams taking nosedives. Maybe it doesn't always happen, but I guess where I'm coming from is if you're Ted Thompson, why do you take that chance - particularly when it's costing you over $12 Million to do so?

well GB didn't go to the SB last year & their division is garbage too so, but i hear ya.

to answer the bolded i would say the reason he's taking the chance is b/c he's got a very legitimate shot to lock up the toughest position to play in the nfl for another 10 + years - which would be nearly 30 consecutive years when you count Favre's tenure. that's unheard of in this day & age. Off the top of my head, I think the Cowboys with meridith-staubach/morton & maybe the 49ers with montana-young are the only teams to come even remotely close to that. I think that well worth favre's last couple of years.

WWJD
07-18-2008, 03:54 PM
If you look at it superficially........no. but if you look at it for what it is...

lets see, it gets him no where regardless of what he/the pack decide to do. He can't afford to sit out a year, & ultimately his playing days are numbered.

On the other hand, If the packers are indeed right about AR, then it shows they made the right decision to push favre to the side & continue on with a winning team. Hell even if they are wrong, they still have brohm behind rodgers so they effectively have at least 2 years before this may come back to bite them.

They are taking their shot & they've got at least a 50% chance of coming out of this ok......those are pretty good odds.

He CAN afford to sit out a year..he's in great shape and he's working out.
And he's got tons of money. Age? He'll be like Vinny I guess...well conditioned athlete that can play well into his 40's. I think Brett is capable of that.

gary
07-18-2008, 06:24 PM
If you look at it superficially........no. but if you look at it for what it is...

lets see, it gets him no where regardless of what he/the pack decide to do. He can't afford to sit out a year, & ultimately his playing days are numbered.

On the other hand, If the packers are indeed right about AR, then it shows they made the right decision to push favre to the side & continue on with a winning team. Hell even if they are wrong, they still have brohm behind rodgers so they effectively have at least 2 years before this may come back to bite them.

They are taking their shot & they've got at least a 50% chance of coming out of this ok......those are pretty good odds.I still think this may linger into the season and bite GB in the butt.

GuerillaBlack
07-18-2008, 06:31 PM
How will it bite them in the butt?

gary
07-18-2008, 06:43 PM
How will it bite them in the butt?The players may be divided over this or if AR doesn't do well. I'm just saying.

PapaL
07-18-2008, 06:53 PM
He CAN afford to sit out a year..he's in great shape and he's working out.
And he's got tons of money. Age? He'll be like Vinny I guess...well conditioned athlete that can play well into his 40's. I think Brett is capable of that.


Yeah but do they make helmets big enough to fit his ever growing head?

WWJD
07-18-2008, 07:02 PM
Yeah but do they make helmets big enough to fit his ever growing head?

He's fighting for what he thinks is right. And I happen to agree with him. I don't sit here and think Brett has an out of control ego. I think he just wants to play! But ya know to each his own....

GuerillaBlack
07-18-2008, 07:03 PM
He's fighting for what he thinks is right. And I happen to agree with him. I don't sit here and think Brett has an out of control ego. I think he just wants to play! But ya know to each his own....

So tell him to stop flip-flopping. If he wanted to play, he should have never "retired" and cried on the podium.

gary
07-18-2008, 07:05 PM
Yeah but do they make helmets big enough to fit his ever growing head?No, he sure does have a huge head.

WWJD
07-18-2008, 07:14 PM
So tell him to stop flip-flopping. If he wanted to play, he should have never "retired" and cried on the podium.

You got his number?

gary
07-18-2008, 07:29 PM
He's fighting for what he thinks is right. And I happen to agree with him. I don't sit here and think Brett has an out of control ego. I think he just wants to play! But ya know to each his own....Agree. But he should just come out and say it.

PapaL
07-18-2008, 07:34 PM
He's fighting for what he thinks is right. And I happen to agree with him. I don't sit here and think Brett has an out of control ego. I think he just wants to play! But ya know to each his own....

Guess that is where we are fundamentally different. I'm for the betterment of the team long term and not one man's agenda.

Round and round we go...at least this kills some offseason time I guess. Pick a stance and defend it till Opening Night and/or he retires...again...and again...

WWJD
07-18-2008, 07:37 PM
Agree. But he should just come out and say it.

He did a fairly lengthy interview with Fox News. I don't know what else he could say.

gary
07-18-2008, 07:41 PM
Guess that is where we are fundamentally different. I'm for the betterment of the team long term and not one man's agenda.

Round and round we go...at least this kills some offseason time I guess. Pick a stance and defend it till Opening Night and/or he retires...again...and again...And he has every right to keep retiring.

gary
07-18-2008, 07:43 PM
He did a fairly lengthy interview with Fox News. I don't know what else he could say.I want to play but not with GB.

gtexan02
07-18-2008, 08:01 PM
This just seems like a win-win for Green Bay in my book:

Brett wants to play:

If you think Aaron Rodgers gives you the best chance of winning, trade Brett
If you tihkn Brett gives you the best chance of winning, play Brett

So either you get something for someone who wasnt even available to trade before, or you get a better QB.

The only reason this is bad for GB is because they can't decide which of the two is right

gary
07-18-2008, 08:06 PM
This just seems like a win-win for Green Bay in my book:

Brett wants to play:

If you think Aaron Rodgers gives you the best chance of winning, trade Brett
If you tihkn Brett gives you the best chance of winning, play Brett

So either you get something for someone who wasnt even available to trade before, or you get a better QB.

The only reason this is bad for GB is because they can't decide which of the two is rightOut of these two things they should trade him.

WWJD
07-18-2008, 08:13 PM
I want to play but not with GB.

He answered every single question in that interview. Including talking about playing for other teams. He couldn't have been more direct....

gary
07-18-2008, 08:18 PM
He answered every single question in that interview. Including talking about playing for other teams. He couldn't have been more direct....Ok, and he has every right to play for another team.

WWJD
07-18-2008, 08:30 PM
I want to play but not with GB.

Not sure I'm understanding your POV but he DID answer that question in that interview. He talks about his role there, his retirement, his relationship with management, why he retired when he did, what he's been told by the Packers both in March and now...and on and on.

Like I said he just couldn't have been more direct. He didn't dodge any questions that we've been talking about on this thread.

Agree or not that's up to each person. But he answered the questions.

gary
07-18-2008, 08:35 PM
Not sure I'm understanding your POV but he DID answer that question in that interview. He talks about his role there, his retirement, his relationship with management, why he retired when he did, what he's been told by the Packers both in March and now...and on and on.

Like I said he just couldn't have been more direct. He didn't dodge any questions that we've been talking about on this thread.

Agree or not that's up to each person. But he answered the questions.Maybe I missed some of it.

WWJD
07-18-2008, 08:39 PM
Maybe I missed some of it.

Try You Tube. It's probably on there. It's a fairly long interview.

gary
07-18-2008, 08:47 PM
Try You Tube. It's probably on there. It's a fairly long interview.I'll try.

gary
07-18-2008, 09:02 PM
No such luck. But if you say he did I trust you.

Specnatz
07-19-2008, 12:36 AM
So tell him to stop flip-flopping. If he wanted to play, he should have never "retired" and cried on the podium.

So you have never changed your mind in your life, in regards to an emotional event? If you would have saw the interview on FOX he did say that he made a mistake in retiring and that he rushed into it with to much emotion.

I put in my two weeks notice before at a job and after doing more research I realized that the new job was not right for me. I talked to my boss about it and he said no problem you can keep your job. I would have been screwed if he said nope sorry but we already found your replacement. I know several people this has happened to. We are humans we make decisions based upon emotion a lot and when that happens we sometimes regret the decisions we have made and change our minds. To trash Brett over this is kind a odd because it is his right to change his mind and if the Packers want to move on without him, which is plain to see then they should release him. which of course they could try and screw Brett by trading him to crappy team, but what would prevent the crappy team from then trading him to a team he wants to play for?

gary
07-19-2008, 10:52 AM
So you have never changed your mind in your life, in regards to an emotional event? If you would have saw the interview on FOX he did say that he made a mistake in retiring and that he rushed into it with to much emotion.

I put in my two weeks notice before at a job and after doing more research I realized that the new job was not right for me. I talked to my boss about it and he said no problem you can keep your job. I would have been screwed if he said nope sorry but we already found your replacement. I know several people this has happened to. We are humans we make decisions based upon emotion a lot and when that happens we sometimes regret the decisions we have made and change our minds. To trash Brett over this is kind a odd because it is his right to change his mind and if the Packers want to move on without him, which is plain to see then they should release him. which of course they could try and screw Brett by trading him to crappy team, but what would prevent the crappy team from then trading him to a team he wants to play for?Agree. Great post.

swtbound07
07-19-2008, 02:31 PM
Ok, and he has every right to play for another team.

no he doesn't. He kinda signed a contract

Lucky
07-19-2008, 05:02 PM
...but what would prevent the crappy team from then trading him to a team he wants to play for?
The Packers could put conditions on the trade, such as the draft pick escalating to a 1st round selection if Favre was double traded to a division opponent. PFT discusses that scenario here (http://www.profootballtalk.com/category/rumor-mill/page/3/).

A popular subject contained in various e-mails we’ve received over the course of the day is a trade of Favre to a team other than the Vikings or the Bears, followed by a trade of Favre to a team like the Vikings or the Bears.

Don’t count on it happening. Our guess is that the Packers (http://www.profootballtalk.com/category/rumor-mill/page/3/#) would include in any trade of Favre to someone other than the Vikings or the Bears a provision that, if Favre thereafter is traded to the Vikings or the Bears, the compensation will increase to a first-round pick, or more.

Though the Packers can’t release Favre with an understanding that he won’t sign with certain teams, the Packers presumably can condition compensation on what the team that acquires Favre’s rights does with them.

It’s no different than, for example, the trade that gave the Broncos a seventh-round pick that would have upgraded if Jake Plummer had reported to the Bucs. Or the deal that will send a fourth-round pick from Tennessee to Dallas if Pacman Jones isn’t reinstated for the 2008 season.

It’s a conditional draft pick — and the condition that would increase the compensation in the case of a Favre trade would be the re-trading of Favre to a team like the Bears or the Vikings.

gary
07-19-2008, 06:09 PM
no he doesn't. He kinda signed a contractThe Packers do not want him but that does not mean he has to be done.

The Pencil Neck
07-19-2008, 06:27 PM
The Packers do not want him but that does not mean he has to be done.

When you sign the contract, then that team basically has the right to do with you whatever they want until it expires or they decide to release you from the contract. They want him to ride the pine, then as long as he's under contract, he's riding the pine.

gary
07-19-2008, 06:52 PM
When you sign the contract, then that team basically has the right to do with you whatever they want until it expires or they decide to release you from the contract. They want him to ride the pine, then as long as he's under contract, he's riding the pine.Well, I'm just going to say that I don't think GB should be doing this.

PapaL
07-19-2008, 08:10 PM
Well, I'm just going to say that I don't think GB should be doing this.

Well good thing it's not your, mine, or anyone else besides the GB front office/staffs call as to what happens to Brett.

gary
07-19-2008, 08:18 PM
Well good thing it's not your, mine, or anyone else besides the GB front office/staffs call as to what happens to Brett.If it was I'd do the right thing and release him for the sake of both sides.

PapaL
07-19-2008, 10:19 PM
If it was I'd do the right thing and release him for the sake of both sides.

If that's your perception of right Gary - so be it. Mine is different. He has a contract; if he wants to play then he must abide by that contract. I have no pity or apathy for athletes who want to change things after the fact (holdouts, trashing teams, complaining about contract and this whole Brett circus). To me, the right thing is holding him to his word and the contract he signed. He agreed to be part of that team if they paid him; well they are and have offered to continue to pay.

gg no re
07-19-2008, 10:56 PM
So you have never changed your mind in your life, in regards to an emotional event? If you would have saw the interview on FOX he did say that he made a mistake in retiring and that he rushed into it with to much emotion.

I put in my two weeks notice before at a job and after doing more research I realized that the new job was not right for me. I talked to my boss about it and he said no problem you can keep your job. I would have been screwed if he said nope sorry but we already found your replacement. I know several people this has happened to. We are humans we make decisions based upon emotion a lot and when that happens we sometimes regret the decisions we have made and change our minds.

The main difference between your anecdote and Brett's situation is that I'm going to assume that you didn't put your boss through a six month square dance of "will he leave or not" for three years prior.

If this had been the first time that Favre considered retirement for a lengthy amount of time, then if I was Ted Thompson I'd let bygones be bygones.

However, this has been the 24th time Favre has been tugging the chain, and if I'm Ted Thompson, I stick to my guns and let Favre know that while his contribution to the organizations are highly valued and that we are eternally thankful for them, but this annual retirement circus needs to stop for good.

gary
07-20-2008, 10:14 AM
If that's your perception of right Gary - so be it. Mine is different. He has a contract; if he wants to play then he must abide by that contract. I have no pity or apathy for athletes who want to change things after the fact (holdouts, trashing teams, complaining about contract and this whole Brett circus). To me, the right thing is holding him to his word and the contract he signed. He agreed to be part of that team if they paid him; well they are and have offered to continue to pay.How about MJ didn't he retire and come back more than once?

HJam72
07-20-2008, 10:21 AM
How about MJ didn't he retire and come back more than once?

Yes, and they should've sent him packing!


To Houston. :mshadows:

gary
07-20-2008, 10:35 AM
Yes, and they should've sent him packing!


To Houston. :mshadows:LOL. It's too bad they didn't.

The Pencil Neck
07-20-2008, 04:04 PM
How about MJ didn't he retire and come back more than once?

He retired and then spent a lot of time doing something else. He was out of basketball for something like 2 years. I believe his contract had expired by the time he decided to come back.

Favre doesn't have enough time to sit out and wait for his contract to expire. He's too old.

gary
07-20-2008, 04:29 PM
He retired and then spent a lot of time doing something else. He was out of basketball for something like 2 years. I believe his contract had expired by the time he decided to come back.

Favre doesn't have enough time to sit out and wait for his contract to expire. He's too old.Look at Vinny T.

PapaL
07-20-2008, 06:00 PM
How about MJ didn't he retire and come back more than once?

Look at Vinny T.

Both of these guys finished their contracts and had the liberty to do as they pleased. Neither of these guys pulled the "I'm retiring" stunt every year for years in a row.

Vinny T was asked to come back. He wasn't doing interviews calling out any of the numerous teams he played for.

The Pencil Neck
07-20-2008, 07:04 PM
Look at Vinny T.

Exactly. Look at Vinny T. A big armed, cagey vet who could occasionally get you a win coming off the bench but too old to be your starter for a 16 game season. Favre doesn't have very many seasons left in him and if he sits out a season, that season (or two or three (depending on how long he has to sit out to get out of his contract)) might have been his last one where he could be considered serious starting material.

gary
07-20-2008, 07:17 PM
Exactly. Look at Vinny T. A big armed, cagey vet who could occasionally get you a win coming off the bench but too old to be your starter for a 16 game season. Favre doesn't have very many seasons left in him and if he sits out a season, that season (or two or three (depending on how long he has to sit out to get out of his contract)) might have been his last one where he could be considered serious starting material.He has at least one good season left in him and they should let him give it go.

The Pencil Neck
07-20-2008, 08:21 PM
He has at least one good season left in him and they should let him give it go.

Are you in their locker room? Have you been on their practice fields? Have you been in their team meetings?

For us, sitting here on the outside, we don't know. We don't know if Favre is a cancer in the locker room. We don't know if all the players on his team hate his guts or if they think he's god. We don't know how Brett is holding up physically. We don't know if he has another season in him or not. We don't know if Brett was freelancing all of last year and not doing what the coaches were telling him to do. He had a bad problem earlier in his career with not doing what Holmgren told him to do (and I think that had a lot to do with Holmgren leaving the Packers.)

Frankly, for all we know, he's still using drugs to get through the seasons. Remember, for at least part of his streak of consecutive starts, he was addicted to painkillers.

We do know that Favre has played mind games with the team for a few years. He's called out other players who were negotiating their contracts.

He might have several good years left in him but he might be more of a headcase than we know and more of a headcase than the Packers are willing to put up with except in a backup role.

He's a hero to a lot of people. But he's already tarnished his image for a lot of other people.

gary
07-20-2008, 08:39 PM
Are you in their locker room? Have you been on their practice fields? Have you been in their team meetings?

For us, sitting here on the outside, we don't know. We don't know if Favre is a cancer in the locker room. We don't know if all the players on his team hate his guts or if they think he's god. We don't know how Brett is holding up physically. We don't know if he has another season in him or not. We don't know if Brett was freelancing all of last year and not doing what the coaches were telling him to do. He had a bad problem earlier in his career with not doing what Holmgren told him to do (and I think that had a lot to do with Holmgren leaving the Packers.)

Frankly, for all we know, he's still using drugs to get through the seasons. Remember, for at least part of his streak of consecutive starts, he was addicted to painkillers.

We do know that Favre has played mind games with the team for a few years. He's called out other players who were negotiating their contracts.

He might have several good years left in him but he might be more of a headcase than we know and more of a headcase than the Packers are willing to put up with except in a backup role.

He's a hero to a lot of people. But he's already tarnished his image for a lot of other people.I disagree. I do know that he wats to be a starter again and should be.

gary
07-20-2008, 08:58 PM
I don't know about the past two seasons but this season they rushed him. WWJD, I just did find this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBc2aHH943U

ChampionTexan
07-20-2008, 11:38 PM
I don't know about the past two seasons but this season they rushed him. WWJD, I just did find this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBc2aHH943U

Gary -

If you're trying to find the entire interview, it's in 6 parts, but you'll find it all here:

http://www.foxnews.com/ontherecord/index.html

Showtime100
07-21-2008, 09:02 AM
This is funny. I was just getting my daily dose of awfulannouncing.com (http://www.awfulannouncing.com/) and they had this little item.

I've honestly been trying to avoid Favre over the past few days as much as possible. I think it's only fair for our collective sanity. Well I saw this item over at PFT and thought it was interesting enough to pass along. The Packers recently sent out season tickets and guess who's on the Game One edition....that's right Brett Lorenzo Favre....

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r65/ShowtimeN15580/Sports/weekonetix.jpg

Now obviously the planned this ahead of time because the Pack are retiring his jersey that night, but how odd would it be if he was on another team? What if said team was the Vikings? Interesting (not really but nothing else is going on).

I love the world of sports. :D

WWJD
07-21-2008, 09:23 AM
I don't know about the past two seasons but this season they rushed him. WWJD, I just did find this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBc2aHH943U

Thanks Gary...I've seen the interview but when I read people's comments about Brett that haven't even watched it and heard what he said I'll refer to it.

GuerillaBlack
07-21-2008, 09:55 AM
This is funny. I was just getting my daily dose of awfulannouncing.com (http://www.awfulannouncing.com/) and they had this little item.



I love the world of sports. :D

Man, this whole The Guilding Favre is just like:

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s133/ajreynol/2qd3j3p.gif

gary
07-21-2008, 10:33 AM
Gary -

If you're trying to find the entire interview, it's in 6 parts, but you'll find it all here:

http://www.foxnews.com/ontherecord/index.htmlNo, I just wanted the part where they asked him why did he retire so early.

PapaL
07-23-2008, 07:29 AM
NFL Truth & Rumors reports the following; Link (http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/59114):


Packers shopping Favre to...
Posted: Wednesday July 23, 2008 06:12AM ET

As the Packers wait to see whether Brett Favre will indeed file his reinstatement papers with the NFL, the club is working its way through a list of teams it sees as potential trading partners for the sort-of-retired quarterback. According to a league source, the teams on that list include the Jets, the Ravens, the Dolphins and the Houston Texans in the AFC and the Panthers, Buccaneers, Falcons and Redskins in the NFC.


I would not be very happy about this.

Kaiser Toro
07-23-2008, 08:38 AM
NFL Truth & Rumors reports the following; Link (http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/59114):



I would not be very happy about this.

Makes no sense, other than a smokescreen to field offers for Sage.

Showtime100
07-23-2008, 09:02 AM
NFL Truth & Rumors reports the following; Link (http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/59114):



I would not be very happy about this.

Not a good development. Throughout this whole thing I've been reveling in the fact that this has nothing to do with Houston. I don't expect anything to come out of this, but just seeing the Texans mentioned is a step in the wrong direction, IMO.

EDIT: This is funny, click on where it says "Houston Texans Message Board" :cricket: lol.

Mr teX
07-23-2008, 09:31 AM
NFL Truth & Rumors reports the following; Link (http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/59114):



I would not be very happy about this.

not a big deal, Adam Schefter said on NFLTA yesterday that they've called 1/2 the league. They're probably just trying to get an idea of what teams with shaky QB situations would give up for him.

Meanwhile, he STILL hasn't filed his reinstatement papers. What is he who "just wants to play" as many have stated, waiting on? why not just file the papers & see what shakes out?

He's still acting like a baby. It looks more & more like he's trying to strong arm the packers into inserting him back in as the starter in GB or releasing him so he can go to minnesota; If he's shipped anywhere else he's just going to retire. The packers just have the stronger arm.

PapaL
07-23-2008, 09:39 AM
Makes no sense, other than a smokescreen to field offers for Sage.

I don't know if that was meant as serious or as a joke but I laughed regardless.

PapaL
07-23-2008, 09:48 AM
Also interesting news - Phonce records have been traced from a cell phone that was issued to Brett by the Packers. Records show numerous calls to the MIN HC and OC.

All of a sudden those tampering charges have sturdy legs to stand on.