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JWarren14
07-08-2008, 05:10 PM
It may be a long post since it costs money to access the links but here it is. Leading up to July 17th ESPN Insider and Scouts Inc. are ranking all 32 teams in each of the following:

QB: Houston @ # 13: The Texans have the makings of a high-flying offense if WR Andre Johnson is healthy. QB Matt Schaub also is a durability risk after taking an awful beating in his first year as Houston's signal-caller. While he has good height and can see the whole field, Schaub isn't thickly built and needs to prove he can withstand the punishment at this key position. He played only seven full games last year and just a small portion of four others. Schaub had Johnson at his disposal in only four of those seven games, and he still managed to throw for 2,241 yards and average 264 yards through the air in the games he played start to finish. Needless to say, those translate to big numbers over the course of an entire season.
Schaub is poised, crisp with his decisions and accurate. The Texans also have Sage Rosenfels waiting in the wings. He spelled Schaub quite effectively last season and very well could be the top backup quarterback in the league. This is a good situation, and this offense will score plenty of points, but only if Johnson stays on the field. Expect Schaub to have a monster season.

In order: New England, Indy, Pitts, NO, Cincy, Dallas, Philly, Jax, Seattle, Cleveland, NYG, Denver, Hou, SD, StL, Car, Ariz, Tenn, TB, Wash, GB, Buff, Det, Balt, Oak, Atl, NYJ, Minn, SF, Chi, Mia, KC

RB: Houston @ # 28: The Texans' scenario is the same as last year because they haven't found out if they have a No. 1 back. Under head coach Gary Kubiak they have adopted Denver's strategy; they create competition and hope someone who is a one-cut runner will shine behind their zone-blocking offensive line. Denver was successful with late-round or free-agent running backs and Houston is taking the same approach. Look for Darius Walker, who played well last season, to emerge. Ahman Green is a veteran who will get some touches if he's healthy and don't ignore the excitement rookie Steve Slaton brings to the table.

In order: SD, Minn, Jax, Pitt, Dallas, StL, Philly, Indy, KC, SF, Oak, Wash, Buff, GB, Tenn, Clev, Balt, NYG, NE, NYJ, Cincy, NO, Car, Seattle, Mia, Atl, TB, HOU, Denver, Ariz, Det, Chi

In the next few days: WR (7/9), TE (7/10), OL (7/11), DL (7/14), LB (7/15), DB (7/16), ST (7/17)

So how do you feel about the list so far? Who on the list is "ridiculous"? Where do you see us on the other lists? Let me know if you want to see another team and ill copy and paste or if you have insider here is the link: http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insider/news/story?id=3477621

TEXANS84
07-08-2008, 05:13 PM
Darius Walker wont even make the cut this year.

Ole Miss Texan
07-08-2008, 05:26 PM
I can't really justify ranking our RB's higher than too many, if any, of the teams ahead of us. I think the ranking is about right, but I don't expect us to have the #28th rushing offense next season, if that makes sense. As far as RB talent/depth goes... I think it's right.

Wow, I really like Matt Schaub. I'm really starting to get this feeling this next season is going to be completely awesome.

Lucky
07-08-2008, 05:31 PM
I can't really justify ranking our RB's higher than too many, if any, of the teams ahead of us.
I see your point. But, who would take the Saints RBs (#22) over the Texans, as they currently stand? I wouldn't.

Looking through the QB list, I can't think of a time when more teams were in trouble at that position. We will see a lot of bad QB play in the NFL this season.

thunderkyss
07-08-2008, 05:37 PM
I can't believe they ranked Tennessee where they ranked Tennessee. They're only bringing back one RB from last year, Lendale White, and they drafted his supposed replacement.

I just don't see the Logic.

JWarren14
07-08-2008, 05:42 PM
I see your point. But, who would take the Saints RBs (#22) over the Texans, as they currently stand? I wouldn't.

Agreed, basically they say the same thing about them as they do us:

Although they have some big names in the backfield, it is hard to rank the Saints much higher. Deuce McAllister can't stay healthy and Reggie Bush is not a quality starter because he is not effective between the tackles. The most productive or at least the most consistent back last season was journeyman runner Aaron Stecker. Plus, Pierre Thomas is a young player with talent. This unit is four deep, but lacks a quality starter who can pound the rock.

Replace Deuce with Ahman and Chris Brown > Reggie between the tackles. We are 5 deep. You have to account for the media love reggie gets, thats the only explanation.

Ole Miss Texan
07-08-2008, 05:54 PM
I see your point. But, who would take the Saints RBs (#22) over the Texans, as they currently stand? I wouldn't.

Looking through the QB list, I can't think of a time when more teams were in trouble at that position. We will see a lot of bad QB play in the NFL this season.

That's a very good point about the RB's. I have no idea where Deuce is right now, is he healthy? I'm really not starting to have much faith in Green (started about 30 minutes ago:)) I have kind of jumped on the Chris Brown bandwagon. I'll admit I know very little about him though.

Deuce vs. Green/Brown is a tough one cuz they all seem injured.
I don't care for the Saints much so rarely watch the games but what I've seen of Stecker- I like. I relate that to me liking the Quinn Gray signing... but then us releasing him. lol
As far as Reggie Bush goes, there's a huge stigma still about VY and RB, and I can completely understand why. But Reggie is still very talented and I would choose him over Steve Slaton. If you bring his contract into play...then forget it... but we're only looking at talent.

Deuce vs. Green/Brown= Push (maybe a slight edge for Houston since we have 2)
Stecker vs. Taylor/Walker= Push (maybe a slight edge to New Orleans for a quality backup)
Bush vs. Slaton= Bush (New Orleans gets this one, both 3rd down backs/ special teams guys)


And about the QB's... you're completely right, there are so many question marks at QB around the league!

Tailgate
07-08-2008, 07:19 PM
In the Hashmark section they went a bit further for the Texans running game, threw in Alex Gibbs, how this style of running game can bring surprise rbs, and mentioned Taylor as a possibility. Of course we have all hashed out his story around here. Just more press on the Texans.

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/hashmarks

Scouts Inc. has ranked the NFL's run games [Insider], and while the AFC South's three playoff teams from 2007 all rank in the top half -- Jacksonville third, Indianapolis eighth, Tennessee 15th -- Houston is at No. 28, ahead of only Denver, Arizona, Detroit and Chicago.

The Texans' run game will be a big story this season. To improve on 8-8 and get out of the cellar of what could be the toughest division in football again, it has to do better than the last year, when the rush offense ranked 22nd in the NFL in yards. With 1,586, Houston collectively outran San Diego's LaDainian Tomlinson by just 112 yards. (It's not quite as bad as it sounds: 10 teams were worse.)

Coach Gary Kubiak lured an old coaching friend, Alex Gibbs, to Houston to teach the offensive line the zone blocking scheme that worked so well for so long when both coaches were part of Mike Shanahan's Broncos staff.

The question could well be more about the backs than the blocking. Ahman Green's knee injury killed his 2007 season and he has to show he can be a durable feature guy for the Texans. Chris Brown had the same exact issue in Tennessee, which is why the Titans let him walk away as a free agent.

But as Scouts suggests, it may not take a marquee back to excel in Houston's system.

Third-round draft pick Steve Slaton will have a chance to make an impact as will Darius Walker. But the candidate who could surprise is Chris Taylor. Undrafted out of Indiana in 2006, he played in four games as a rookie and averaged 4.4 yards a carry in four games that season, a half yard better than the rest of the team.

Taylor suffered a season-ending knee injury in July 2007, missed the entire season and will come into camp as a forgotten man to many who aren't devoted followers of the team.

eriadoc
07-08-2008, 09:40 PM
In order: New England, Indy, Pitts, NO, Cincy, Dallas, Philly, Jax, Seattle, Cleveland, NYG, Denver, Hou, SD, StL, Car, Ariz, Tenn, TB, Wash, GB, Buff, Det, Balt, Oak, Atl, NYJ, Minn, SF, Chi, Mia, KC

Pittsburgh is higher than I'd put them, but not by much. I also don't think Romo is as good as the team around him. The only teams ahead of us on that list that I would change are Philly, Jacksonville, and Denver. McNabb hasn't shown much the past few years and I have never been sold on his accuracy. He has constant injury concerns these days. Garrard is a serviceable QB that doesn't make many plays, but doesn't seem to make many mistakes, either. After only one year of each, I'll take Schaub. Cutler has crazy upside, and could develop into a top-5 QB, but he isn't there yet. I'll take Schaub until Cutler gets there.

JMO, YMMV.

JayCee
07-08-2008, 10:07 PM
In order: New England, Indy, Pitts, NO, Cincy, Dallas, Philly, Jax, Seattle, Cleveland, NYG, Denver, Hou, SD, StL, Car, Ariz, Tenn, TB, Wash, GB, Buff, Det, Balt, Oak, Atl, NYJ, Minn, SF, Chi, Mia, KC

I would take Rivers over Cutler and Anderson even though the guy is a d##k head.

Hardcore Texan
07-08-2008, 10:42 PM
That's a very good point about the RB's. I have no idea where Deuce is right now, is he healthy? I'm really not starting to have much faith in Green (started about 30 minutes ago:)) I have kind of jumped on the Chris Brown bandwagon. I'll admit I know very little about him though.

Deuce vs. Green/Brown is a tough one cuz they all seem injured.
I don't care for the Saints much so rarely watch the games but what I've seen of Stecker- I like. I relate that to me liking the Quinn Gray signing... but then us releasing him. lol
As far as Reggie Bush goes, there's a huge stigma still about VY and RB, and I can completely understand why. But Reggie is still very talented and I would choose him over Steve Slaton. If you bring his contract into play...then forget it... but we're only looking at talent.

Deuce vs. Green/Brown= Push (maybe a slight edge for Houston since we have 2)
Stecker vs. Taylor/Walker= Push (maybe a slight edge to New Orleans for a quality backup)
Bush vs. Slaton= Bush (New Orleans gets this one, both 3rd down backs/ special teams guys)


And about the QB's... you're completely right, there are so many question marks at QB around the league!

I think Slaton will show he can run between the tackles much more effectively especially in the ZBS.

Ghetto D
07-09-2008, 10:21 AM
Hasn't a Gibbs running game ranked in the top 10 each year he has been a RB coach? Doesn't he sprinkle the magic dust over spare parts and make everything all better?

I would think that should be worth AT LEAST a top 20 ranking. Sometimes I wonder if they are just looking at names and not the whole picture. They need to remember that in the NFL things can (and do) turn on a dime.

The Pencil Neck
07-09-2008, 12:33 PM
Hasn't a Gibbs running game ranked in the top 10 each year he has been a RB coach?

Just a minor detail but he's not the RB coach although he does coach them. He's a line coach.

JWarren14
07-09-2008, 03:22 PM
WR rankings out today Texans @ #13

"Andre Johnson is a premier No. 1 receiver who continues to play at a high level when healthy. He has the speed and quickness to attack all levels in the passing game and shows outstanding catching skills. He has good size and strength to allow him separation on different route combinations. Kevin Walter is a big, strong possession receiver who knows how to use his size to shield defenders downfield. Andre Davis has exceptional straight-line speed and can attack the deep vertical areas in the passing game. Jacoby Jones is an intriguing young player who must become more consistent but should increase his playing time thanks to his big-play capabilities."

In order: NE, Ariz, Cincy, GB, Indy, Clev, Det, Dal, SD, Pitt, NYG, NO, HOU, Car, Philly, Atl, Den, NYJ, Seattle, Jax, Wash, Balt, StL, Buff, KC, Tampa, Oak, Minn, Tenn, SF, Chi, Mia

I think the health of AJ and the emergence of JJ coupled with the speed of AD and the possesion of Walter and the flash of Darnell Jenkins (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCWtizMV6Xc), who I hope makes the team because he brings a different dimension to our current group will equal a very strong combo of wideouts. Of course a healthy Schaub wont hurt either.

Lucky
07-09-2008, 04:14 PM
The Chargers have the 10th best WR corps? Seriously? Kevin Walter & Andre Davis out produced the top 2 SD wideouts. How laughable is that?

eriadoc
07-09-2008, 04:26 PM
The Chargers have the 10th best WR corps? Seriously? Kevin Walter & Andre Davis out produced the top 2 SD wideouts. How laughable is that?

They are probably counting Gates as a WR, which isn't all that far off, really. I also wonder how much future speculation vs. past production goes into this. Because I know people are really high on Vincent Jackson. On the flip side, Cincy's corps is way too high, when you consider chemistry issues. They have TJH and CJ, and a bunch of backups who are talented but always seem to underachieve (mostly due to legal issues).

Hooston Texan
07-09-2008, 04:28 PM
WR rankings out today Texans @ #13

"Andre Johnson is a premier No. 1 receiver who continues to play at a high level when healthy. He has the speed and quickness to attack all levels in the passing game and shows outstanding catching skills. He has good size and strength to allow him separation on different route combinations. Kevin Walter is a big, strong possession receiver who knows how to use his size to shield defenders downfield. Andre Davis has exceptional straight-line speed and can attack the deep vertical areas in the passing game. Jacoby Jones is an intriguing young player who must become more consistent but should increase his playing time thanks to his big-play capabilities."

In order: NE, Ariz, Cincy, GB, Indy, Clev, Det, Dal, SD, Pitt, NYG, NO, HOU, Car, Philly, Atl, Den, NYJ, Seattle, Jax, Wash, Balt, StL, Buff, KC, Tampa, Oak, Minn, Tenn, SF, Chi, Mia

I think the health of AJ and the emergence of JJ coupled with the speed of AD and the possesion of Walter and the flash of Darnell Jenkins (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCWtizMV6Xc), who I hope makes the team because he brings a different dimension to our current group will equal a very strong combo of wideouts. Of course a healthy Schaub wont hurt either.

As far as the ranking, the only teams ahead of us I have a beef with are San Diego, New Orleans and maybe Dallas. If this ranking includes TE's, then I can see the Chargers and Dallas being rated ahead of us. But if you're not factoring in Antonio Gates, the Charger wideouts are pretty pedestrian, even with Chris Chambers. The Saints' passing game really struggled because Colston has yet to prove he is a true #1. Meanwhile, Dallas' WR corps mirrors ours--a superstar surrounded by role players. I like our star better, and I think our role players are better, too, but it's a closer call.

I suppose I could throw Detroit into that mix, too, on the grounds that their production has not matched their early-pick pedigrees. But I think Calvin Johnson, if healthy again, is going to explode this season.

That having been said, I'm not sure I would trade ours for anyone else's at this point. We seem to have the only star WR who's neither a headcase nor a locker-room tyrant/divider. That's got to be worth something.

JWarren14
07-09-2008, 04:29 PM
Cincy:

"Even with all the offseason distractions revolving around WR Chad Johnson, the Bengals have a very talented receiving duo with Johnson and T.J. Houshmandzadeh. However, without Johnson, this ranking would be a lot lower. Johnson is an explosive playmaker who draws enough attention on the backend to open up the passing game and spacing for other players. He is an excellent route-runner with soft hands and the ability to attack all levels in the passing game. Houshmandzadeh is an exceptional second option who exploits one-on-one matchups in the short and intermediate areas. He is a very smart route-runner with excellent receiving skills and is a big-time threat in the red zone. Rookies Jerome Simpson, Andre Caldwell and Mario Urrutia will be counted on early to contribute."

SD:

"Last season's addition of Chris Chambers gives the Chargers a solid starting tandem with Vincent Jackson. Chambers is an experienced receiver with speed and quickness on the outside and has the ability to catch the ball in stride and hit explosive plays down the field. Jackson is a huge target in the passing game and takes advantage of his 6-foot-5 frame by out-jumping defenders down the field. Although he doesn't separate well at times, he has the ability to make tough catches in a crowd. Both Chambers and Jackson complement each other well in the Chargers' passing attack. Buster Davis is a young player with a lot of potential, while Malcom Floyd and Kassim Osgood give the Chargers a lot of depth at a critical position."

GuerillaBlack
07-09-2008, 04:37 PM
I know right. Texans>>Chargers.

JWarren14
07-09-2008, 04:55 PM
SD '07:

Vincent Jackson - 41 rec, 623 yds, 3 tds
Chris Chambers - 31 rec, 415 yds, 0 TDs (Mia) 35 rec, 555 yds, 4tds (SD)
Craig Davis - 20 rec, 188 yds, 1 td
Malcolm Floyd - 7 rec, 97 yds, 0 td

*They dont count Gates, they rank TEs later*

HOU '07:

Andre Johnson - 60 rec, 851 yds, 8 tds
Kevin Walter - 65 rec, 800 yds, 4 tds
Andre Davis - 33 rec, 583 yds, 3 tds
Jacoby Jones - 15 rec, 149 yds, 0 tds

SD: 134 rec, 1,878 yds, 8 tds
Hou: 173 rec, 2,383 yds, 15 tds

We no doubt outproduced, they probably factored in the fact that our running game was anemic and SD's was good so we were forced to throw more. Also the health an issue again and again. Please football gods, bless us with a healthy season!

Texecutioner
07-09-2008, 05:06 PM
I see your point. But, who would take the Saints RBs (#22) over the Texans, as they currently stand? I wouldn't.

Looking through the QB list, I can't think of a time when more teams were in trouble at that position. We will see a lot of bad QB play in the NFL this season.

Yeah, I have to agree with you on the QB's. I'm not sold on Shaub or Rosenfels yet, but I don't think either one is bad either. Shaub was hurt to much last year to really know. He didn't light it up, nor did he stink it up either.

But there are a ton of teams with questionable QB's and quite a few with really bad QB's.

Sanf Fran, Chicago, Carolina, Miami, Oakland, KC, Buffalo, NY Jets, Washington, and a few others are all teams that either have questionable QB's or really bad ones.

JWarren14
07-09-2008, 05:53 PM
Sanf Fran, Chicago, Carolina, Miami, Oakland, KC, Buffalo, NY Jets, Washington, and a few others are all teams that either have questionable QB's or really bad ones.

Minnesota, Tennessee, Green Bay...man there are a lot of QB issues, maybe it will help our DBs that a lot of the QBs arent really that great.

Texecutioner
07-09-2008, 06:34 PM
Minnesota, Tennessee, Green Bay...man there are a lot of QB issues, maybe it will help our DBs that a lot of the QBs arent really that great.

I don't think that you can make Tennessee part of that discussion. VY has only played two years thus far, and I thought he played real well as a rookie. Last year he took a step back, but he was hurt a lot as well. I suspect that he'll be a lot better this year.

ObsiWan
07-09-2008, 07:01 PM
Sorry, but I don't see how Vince Young can be placed above Jeff Garcia and arguably Trent Edwards or Jason Campbell. Maybe having Kerry Collins as backup brought the overall team grade up.

Tennessee wins based on a ball control running game, solid special teams play, and a smothering defense that can score from time to time. Vince has just been along for the ride...
...at least so far.

whiskeyrbl
07-09-2008, 09:51 PM
Darius Walker wont even make the cut this year.

I won't be so quick to agree here. I think he has a good chance to make the squad. I think Taylor ends up being the odd man out. I hate to say it too, because I like his potential.

Texecutioner
07-10-2008, 01:05 PM
Sorry, but I don't see how Vince Young can be placed above Jeff Garcia and arguably Trent Edwards or Jason Campbell. Maybe having Kerry Collins as backup brought the overall team grade up.

Tennessee wins based on a ball control running game, solid special teams play, and a smothering defense that can score from time to time. Vince has just been along for the ride...
...at least so far.


Well I think he's better than Jason Campbell, but I haven't really watched Trent Edwards much to really agree or disagree.

Vince's rookie year he made quite a few nice plays, and the Titans didn't start winning until he became the starter. The team had more confidence with him out there.

Now last year was a different story. He played pretty poorly all season, but he was hurt for a large part of the season, and if VY doesn't have his legs working for him, then he's not going to beat you with his arm alone sitting in the pocket. Also remember that VY hasn't had jack to work with as far as WR's, so that doesn't exactly help. This season, he still doesn't have any WR's to help him out much. Let's see what he does this year though, before completely counting him out.

Now Garcia is still a good QB, no VY is not better than him at all right now.

JWarren14
07-10-2008, 03:51 PM
TE's today Texans @ #11:

"The Texans found a gem in third-year tight end Owen Daniels, who had 63 catches last season and is an excellent route-runner with deceptive speed and the quickness to get separation on defenders. Daniels is undersized but plays with great intensity and is effective as a wall-off blocker in the running game. The Texans don't get much production behind Daniels from Mark Breuner and Joel Dreessen, but Daniels' ability to be an effective option in Houston's complex passing attack gives head coach Gary Kubiak another versatile weapon."

Others in order: SD, Dal, Clev, KC, NYG, Indy, Tenn, Wash, Chi, GB, Hou, Jax, Den, SF, NE, Balt, Ptt, NYJ, Tampa, Oak, StL, Det, Phi, Ariz, Sea, Car, Mia, Cincy, Minn, Buff, NO, Atl

HOU-TEX
07-10-2008, 04:24 PM
TE's today Texans @ #11:

"The Texans found a gem in third-year tight end Owen Daniels, who had 63 catches last season and is an excellent route-runner with deceptive speed and the quickness to get separation on defenders. Daniels is undersized but plays with great intensity and is effective as a wall-off blocker in the running game. The Texans don't get much production behind Daniels from Mark Breuner and Joel Dreessen, but Daniels' ability to be an effective option in Houston's complex passing attack gives head coach Gary Kubiak another versatile weapon."

Others in order: SD, Dal, Clev, KC, NYG, Indy, Tenn, Wash, Chi, GB, Hou, Jax, Den, SF, NE, Balt, Ptt, NYJ, Tampa, Oak, StL, Det, Phi, Ariz, Sea, Car, Mia, Cincy, Minn, Buff, NO, Atl


Not bad, but I'd rank us in front of Tenn and Chicago. Maybe even GB if Lee's TD number wasn't as good as it is.

Crumpler hasn't proven jack with the tits yet. Neither has Olsen with the Bears.

I'd rank us at 8 or 9 with OD alone. :texflag:

barrett
07-10-2008, 04:32 PM
Open Daniels is a real asset to this team. I agree that he should be ranked higher than Crumpler and Olsen. tacks too.

All that aside we seem to be ending up fairly consistently top half of the pack and that's a pretty good place to be with all the youth on this team. I know GB is younger than us but other than that, who's younger than us? POTENTial!

I think this is a key year for Open Daniels. It's his turn to make the leap to elite. Less fumbles, more touchdowns. I think he's a terrific blocker. I'd like to see him break a few more tackles as well. I"m sure he was focusing on holding onto the ball by seasons end. No doubt, one of my favorite players on this team.

HOU-TEX
07-10-2008, 04:40 PM
Open Daniels is a real asset to this team. I agree that he should be ranked higher than Crumpler and Olsen. tacks too.

All that aside we seem to be ending up fairly consistently top half of the pack and that's a pretty good place to be with all the youth on this team. I know GB is younger than us but other than that, who's younger than us? POTENTial!

I think this is a key year for Open Daniels. It's his turn to make the leap to elite. Less fumbles, more touchdowns. I think he's a terrific blocker. I'd like to see him break a few more tackles as well. I"m sure he was focusing on holding onto the ball by seasons end. No doubt, one of my favorite players on this team.

I agree on every point....except his blocking. The fumbling and his blocking are his weakest points at this time. I definitely think those are things that can be corrected in a reasonable time frame.

IMO, other than our running game (which will be better) and turnovers, our offense wasn't our primary problem last season.....the defense was.

If they were to do a similar ranking with the defenses, we'd likely be in the bottom 10 in every catagory save ILB and maybe DE

GuerillaBlack
07-10-2008, 04:56 PM
If OD hadn't OD'ed on those fumbles, then his stats would have been much better. He dropped some key fumbles. Outside of that, he is a damn good TE. He was I think top 5 in yardage right? He had over 700. Just increase those TD's, and he is top 5 in the league.

Currently though, I would rank us ahead of GB, Chi, and Tenn.

b0ng
07-10-2008, 05:25 PM
I think last year was just a really harsh year for Daniels. Not because he fumbled so much, just at critical times. Hell, one of his fumbles he was the receiver of a broken nose as well as the football, he had it put back into place, and then went back into the mix. That's one tough bastard.

EDIT: I have us ahead of CHI, TEN, and NYG. Who's NYG got? Kevin Boss? Shockey doesn't scare anybody anymore.

EDIT2: I may or may not be a homer

HOU-TEX
07-10-2008, 05:39 PM
I think last year was just a really harsh year for Daniels. Not because he fumbled so much, just at critical times. Hell, one of his fumbles he was the receiver of a broken nose as well as the football, he had it put back into place, and then went back into the mix. That's one tough bastard.

EDIT: I have us ahead of CHI, TEN, and NYG. Who's NYG got? Kevin Boss? Shockey doesn't scare anybody anymore.

EDIT2: I may or may not be a homer

That fumble you mentioned was against the Saints, which I have recorded. I have watched that play over and over and have yet to figure out how they saw that as a lost fumble. Yes he fumbled it, but soon scooped it to his body broken grill and all. Once he regained possession he should've been down by contact.

Don't get me started on Mario's sack on Brees which forced a fumble. :pirate:

JWarren14
07-10-2008, 05:39 PM
If they were to do a similar ranking with the defenses, we'd likely be in the bottom 10 in every catagory save ILB and maybe DE

They will have denfense and ST next week. OL tomorrow, expecting mid to low ranking there. I hope Dressen gets a bigger role this season, he and OD can make a good combo.

HOU-TEX
07-10-2008, 05:50 PM
They will have denfense and ST next week. OL tomorrow, expecting mid to low ranking there. I hope Dressen gets a bigger role this season, he and OD can make a good combo.

Hmm, I don't know. I think the OL will be in the top half. They did very well on sack numbers and it wasn't their fault out RB's sucked. I think I posted a link a while back with Fabiano ranking us at 11 or 12 (can't remember)

I agree on Dressen and OD. I like them both this season and will expect the TE TD total to be much better.

:texflag:

threetoedpete
07-11-2008, 12:33 AM
I think @180 poundsSlaton will show he can run between the tackles much more effectively especially in the ZBS.

Good luck with that one.

infantrycak
07-11-2008, 08:55 AM
Good luck with that one.

Try 201 lbs according to the Texans or 195 lbs at the combine according to the NFL. Link (http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/steve-slaton?id=945)

Chance_C
07-11-2008, 11:38 AM
I think this is a key year for Open Daniels. It's his turn to make the leap to elite. Less fumbles, more touchdowns. I think he's a terrific blocker. I'd like to see him break a few more tackles as well. I"m sure he was focusing on holding onto the ball by seasons end. No doubt, one of my favorite players on this team.

Less fumbles would be nice. But let's keep in mind that in two years he has fumbled the ball 4 times, losing 3. Let's all remember that really deep down inside he doesn't have to bad of a fumbling problem...And as Hou-Tex so eloquently stated, he really didn't lose the broke nose fumble.

GuerillaBlack
07-11-2008, 11:53 AM
Less fumbles would be nice. But let's keep in mind that in two years he has fumbled the ball 4 times, losing 3. Let's all remember that really deep down inside he doesn't have to bad of a fumbling problem...And as Hou-Tex so eloquently stated, he really didn't lose the broke nose fumble.

This is true. I was watching highlights not too long ago because I'm trying to fill my football void, but I saw the play. The ball came out, and he put his arm on it and it was next to his body. Then the Saints player took it away. I got mad, but then the glorious refs paid us back with the Bush fumble later on. :)

But OD is top five in the league if we can increase his TDs. He has the yardage. I actually think he has one of the, if not THE highest yards per carry among TEs. I don't remember.

HOU-TEX
07-11-2008, 12:25 PM
This is true. I was watching highlights not too long ago because I'm trying to fill my football void, but I saw the play. The ball came out, and he put his arm on it and it was next to his body. Then the Saints player took it away. I got mad, but then the glorious refs paid us back with the Bush fumble later on. :)

But OD is top five in the league if we can increase his TDs. He has the yardage. I actually think he has one of the, if not THE highest yards per carry among TEs. I don't remember.

Yes, but the Saints were also reimbursed on Mario's sack/FF play. Bastages!

I was curious so I did a little looksee at TE stats and it only solidified my man-crush for OD.

OD was:
6th in total yds - 768
6th in Rec - 63
3rd in yds/catch - 12.2 (Among top 10 TE's - (1)Winslow and (2)Gates)
6th in yds/game - 48
2nd in 1st down % - 69.8 (Gates - 72.0)

It appears OD is primarily utilized in the mid-range routes (10-15 yds) because he only had 8 rec 20+ and 0 40+.

He led the team in 1st down receptions with 44 of his 63 targets. Walter was right on his heels with 43 out of 65 targets.

The only bad stat of his game (which everyone knows) is the 4 fumbles that is twice as many as the next TE.

So, long story short, if we need a 3rd and long...........OD's THE MAN!

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&statisticPositionCategory=WIDE_RECEIVER&season=2007&seasonType=REG&experience=null&tabSeq=1&qualified=true&Submit=Find

JWarren14
07-11-2008, 12:44 PM
Here were the top TEs last year in terms of production:

http://i36.tinypic.com/k49zsz.jpg

Pretty good standings last year, I only expect improvement this year with a good running game our passing game should open up a little more and OD can use his speed to get open downfield.

Lucky
07-11-2008, 12:46 PM
So, long story short, if we need a 3rd and long...........OD's THE MAN!

Daniels is a very reliable target, as the target completion % (http://subscribers.footballguys.com/apps/targets.php?pos=te&team=all&year=2007&startweek=1&week=17&sortby=catchpct) suggests. In '07, he ranked only below Dallas' Jason Witten in target completion % among TEs with 5+ targets/game.


1. Jason Witten 8.8 targets/game 68.1%
2. Owen Daniels 5.9 targets/game 67.0%
3. Tony Gonzalez 9.6 targets/game 64.3%
4. Jeremy Shockey 5.8 targets/game 61.3%
5. Vernon Davis 5.3 argets/game 61.2%

Daniels has the highest yards/reception among the top 5 at 12.2, as well. Many fans question who the Texans #2 WR will be. Well, Daniels is actually the #2 receiver.

JWarren14
07-11-2008, 04:45 PM
OL Today Texans @ #19:

"This notoriously awful offensive line is showing signs of moving toward respectability. The hiring of line guru Alex Gibbs should get more out of this line than anyone dreamt in recent seasons -- particularly its run blocking. The Texans might have reached a bit in using a first-round selection on Duane Brown. Brown might take time to reach his potential, but his athletic ability can't be questioned. His acclimation to the NFL will have a lot to do with how effective this line is in 2008. Ephraim Salaam is the incumbent at left tackle, but his protection skills are suspect. Eric Winston doesn't get a lot of publicity, but he is a good right tackle and should only get better with time and Gibbs' tutelage. Houston traded for Chris Myers from Denver -- a logical trading partner, considering the similarities in schemes -- and he will start at center. LG Chester Pitts is adequate and moves well with a solid combination of size and agility. Charles Spencer is a wild card in this mix. Once looked upon as the left tackle of the future, Spencer now could add a real presence to the group of guards if he finally recovers from a career-threatening knee injury. Depth here is better than in recent memory, which doesn't say much, but there are some young, unheralded interior linemen who are pushing for playing time. This group did a fine job in pass protection last season but really struggled to open holes in the running game. Expect the run blocking to catch up in 2008 with Gibbs in charge. Whoever is toting the rock for Houston will reap the benefits."

Others in order: Clev, Dal, Minn, NE, Indy, SD, NYG, GB, NO, Phil, Jax, Tampa, NYJ, Cincy, Ari, Den, Tenn, Mia, Hou, Car, Buff, StL, Wash, Pitt, Ravens, Sea, Chi, SF, Oak, Det, Atl, KC

Top 10 after this season, at least. Our first home game should be fun getting after whoever the ravens qb turns out to be. Is anyone else tired of Favre, I am getting tired of him...go back to Mississippi and "live in a van down by the RIVER!"

GuerillaBlack
07-11-2008, 06:40 PM
Sucks that they didn't even acknowledge that we cut our sacks in half last season.

b0ng
07-11-2008, 08:59 PM
Sucks that they didn't even acknowledge that we cut our sacks in half last season.

This group did a fine job in pass protection last season but really struggled to open holes in the running game.

Really says it all I think.

edo783
07-11-2008, 10:02 PM
Sucks that they didn't even acknowledge that we cut our sacks in half last season.

Now THAT sounds painful. Kidding aside, I doubt we do as well this year. IIRC, most ZBS teams give up more sacks than the power teams. I think that is supposed to be due to the lighter lineman. They get pushed around easier. Hopefully we can keep it in the mid 20s or at least under 30. I think that is about league average.

GuerillaBlack
07-11-2008, 10:52 PM
Under 30 is fine. Preferably 0.

GuerillaBlack
07-12-2008, 01:15 AM
Really says it all I think.

Thanks. Somehow, I missed that.

ChampionTexan
07-12-2008, 02:02 AM
Now THAT sounds painful. Kidding aside, I doubt we do as well this year. IIRC, most ZBS teams give up more sacks than the power teams. I think that is supposed to be due to the lighter lineman. They get pushed around easier. Hopefully we can keep it in the mid 20s or at least under 30. I think that is about league average.

Your comment got me thinking about how the ZBS performs from a "Sacks Allowed" standpoint, so I went back and looked at the Bronco's during Gibbs second tenure there (1995 - 2003). Granted, this may not be representative of the ZBS system league-wide, but it's clearly where the bulk of Gibbs time has been spent. I was pretty interested in the numbers.

During his first six years, they ranged anywhere from 4th to 11th in the league, allowing anywhere from 25 to 35 sacks (30.2/yr. avg. for the period). During years 7 & 8, they dropped to 20th and 27th in the league, and gave up 42 and 46 sacks respectively. The interesting thing about this is that after year 6, Gibbs essentially became a part-time coach due to some health and/or burnout issues. He coached on Game day, reviewed film on Monday, and helped develop the game plan on Tuesdays. Wed - Saturday he went to a place in Phoenix that he bought to avoid the temptation of "Just dropping by" practice. I guess he was pretty serious about cutting back his schedule. The ninth and final season Gibbs was in Denver (2003) they were back down to 6th in the league giving up 25 sacks.

Just found it interesting, and thought I'd pass it on.

eriadoc
07-12-2008, 03:10 AM
Daniels is a very reliable target, as the target completion % (http://subscribers.footballguys.com/apps/targets.php?pos=te&team=all&year=2007&startweek=1&week=17&sortby=catchpct) suggests. In '07, he ranked only below Dallas' Jason Witten in target completion % among TEs with 5+ targets/game.



Daniels has the highest yards/reception among the top 5 at 12.2, as well. Many fans question who the Texans #2 WR will be. Well, Daniels is actually the #2 receiver.

Funny you should mention that .....

OK, so we don't have a guy at the #2 spot that most would feel comfortable going into the season with. KW, Davis, and Mathis all = a big ?, to be sure. Consider this, though:

KC for more than a few years had Tony Gonzales as their #1 receiver, with Kennison putting up 2nd-best numbers (well, or Priest), who is nowhere near as talented as AJ.

Antonio Gates has been the Chargers' leading receiver for a couple years now. They have McCardell, who is good, but a little long in the tooth and certainly not as talented as AJ.

Until Mason arrived, Todd Heap was the Ravens' go-to guy, with an assortment of journeymen receivers.

The Patriots have gotten major production from their TE position, with Branch and a host of other WRs, albeit the TE position was by committee.

The Falcons have Crumpler and no one.

Anyway, you get the idea. Those teams all have TEs that they rely on to be their #1 receiver. We don't really have that need, since we have AJ, but how about letting OD be the one that takes the pressure off AJ? How about letting him run patterns up the seams, in the middle, and in the flats? I think an AJ-OD combo would be effective and allow KW and Mathis time to adjust and see what they can bring to the team. Thoughts?

Link (http://texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38109&highlight=daniels), in case anyone wants to reminisce.

OD led the team in receptions, right? He only has one number to improve on, and that's fumbles (or timeliness thereof), although some have just been bad calls and bad luck.

JWarren14
07-14-2008, 05:07 PM
DL today Texans @ #15:

"The Texans have had one of the worst defensive lines in the league for years but finally are making huge strides along the defensive front. Third-year DE Mario Williams is turning into the player Houston envisioned when making him the No. 1 overall pick in 2006, showing the athleticism and speed to pressure the pocket as well as the size and strength to run effectively. Defensive tackle Amobi Okoye was a first-round pick last year, and at just 21 years old, he will be younger in his second year in the league than most incoming rookies. Okoye is improving rapidly for such a young player, and 2005 first-rounder Travis Johnson had his best year to date in 2007. Fellow DE Anthony Weaver rounds out the group and is more of a run-stopper than a pass-rusher."

In order: Min, NYG, NE, Balt, Tenn, Dal, Pitt, SD, GB, Jax, Phil, Wash, Clev, Indy, HOU, Ari, Sea, Chi, Tam, Car, NO, Buff, Mia, Cincy, KC, StL, Oak, Det, NYJ, Atl, SF, Den

I was expecting us to be in the top 10, but heh what do I know or maybe a better question...what does ESPN & Scouts Inc know? I think the addition to Colvin will help the pass rush as blockers will have to account for him. On the DL, Mario is, well, good and Amobi should be improved TJ had a good season and if Okam can come in and keep him fresh TJ should improve even more. Weaver wasnt healthy at the beginning of last season and never seemed to be able to catch up, but I expect err..hope for him to earn his paycheck this year. I think this has the makings of a really really solid DL.

Also, not sure if this is posted, but I found this tidbit on Slaton (move it to another thread if you want) it talks about his decline at WVU, I hope it doesn't translate to an unflattering rookie season (http://www.sundaymorningqb.com/story/2008/2/28/8344/06032)

Is it time for TC yet....

barrett
07-14-2008, 08:06 PM
15. another middle of the pack ranking.

QB - 13
RB - 28
WR - 13
TE - 11
OL - 19
DL - 15


Let's pretend that ESPN is god and these ranking are accurate and this is how we end up. Let's pretend that the teams with the best rankings win the most football games and therefore get into the playoffs... with that said, do we make the playoffs in the AFC South?

I'm going with the assumption that the AFC South is once again sending 3 teams to the playoffs. If somebody wants to add it up for the rest of the AFC teams be my guest but I'm assuming we send 3.


IND
QB - 02
RB - 08
WR - 05
TE - 06
OL - 05
DL - 14

40

JAX
QB - 08
RB - 03
WR - 20
TE - 12
OL - 11
DL - 10

64

TAX
QB - 17
RB - 15
WR - 28
TE - 07
OL - 17
DL - 05

89

HOU
QB - 13
RB - 28
WR - 13
TE - 11
OL - 19
DL - 15

99

If ESPN is god then we miss the playoffs again this year.

If ESPN is wrong by 10 places overall then we make the playoffs this year.

... is it training camp yet?

Ole Miss Texan
07-14-2008, 08:15 PM
I can see how espn can rank positions basing it on the players on each team. What it doesn't do (which i don't think they are even trying to do) is rank how each will perform. Both are quite subjective but take into account different things. I think it's important for us to realize this isn't predicting we'll have the xth best position... but that is what it is going into the season.

For example, I think talent-wise our RB's are somewhere in the 20's but I think STATS-wise we will be top half of the league.

I think our DL may jump from 15 this year to top 5 next year from pure talent standpoint.

The Pencil Neck
07-14-2008, 09:32 PM
If ESPN is god then we miss the playoffs again this year.

If ESPN is wrong by 10 places overall then we make the playoffs this year.

... is it training camp yet?

If ESPN and its experts were Gods, they'd be able to predict winners & losers a helluva lot better than they do during the year. Lots of fans consistently pick winners better than their experts.

So... these rankings aren't worth the bytes they're written in.

gtexan02
07-14-2008, 10:03 PM
The funny thing about the offseason is that for no good reason, a top 5 team on paper will become a bottom dweller.

And some no name team everyone counted out will emerge as a force.

Players everyone expects probowl years from will embarass themselves, while no names will put up HOF numbers.

Yet year after year we all make the predictionos because theres nothing else to do in the summer :) And if it was really easy and predictable, it certainly wouldn't be nearly as much fun

I love reading the ratings but realize they are pretty much worthless. Its all we've got to go on, but I bet we'll outperform.

JWarren14
07-15-2008, 11:15 AM
Yet year after year we all make the predictionos because theres nothing else to do in the summer :) And if it was really easy and predictable, it certainly wouldn't be nearly as much fun

I love reading the ratings but realize they are pretty much worthless. Its all we've got to go on, but I bet we'll outperform.

Agreed, just posting these to spark discussion, LBs today probably middle of the pack again

JWarren14
07-15-2008, 05:13 PM
LBs Texans @ 26:

DeMeco Ryans is a cornerstone player for the Texans' defense and quickly has proved to be one of the most productive linebackers in the league. He is always around the football and diagnoses plays like a veteran. He is an exceptional wrap-up tackler who consistently takes the shortest path to the ball carrier. He obviously is a student of the game and should only improve with the years. He also showed great toughness by finishing the last few games of the 2007 season with a torn PCL in his knee. On the outside, Morlon Greenwood has four consecutive seasons with 100 or more tackles. He isn't a game changer, but his consistency is valued on this defense. Kevin Bentley was brought in to compete for an outside spot and presently is the front-runner to start, but is better suited for a backup role. The Texans also signed Chaun Thompson to compete on the outside. He never has lived up to his early second-round draft status, but he runs well, can play a physical game and can provide a blitz threat off the edge. Although he remains inconsistent, he could provide a spark in sub packages or off the bench in a rotation. Thompson's skills complement Bentley's range and coverage abilities. Rookie Xavier Adibi eventually could push for time as well while making his bones early as a special teams player.

In order: Dal, SD, NE, Chi, Sea, Car, Jax, TB, Balt, GB, Atl, Pitt, Philly, Indy, Buff, NYJ, Ari, Clev, Oak, Tenn, Minn, KC, NYG, Cincy, Wash, HOU, NO, Den, SF, Det, Mia, StL

I think this is the worst one yet, no mention of Colvin or Diles and Cincy above us is baffling to say the least. Oh well, I like being underestimated.

GuerillaBlack
07-15-2008, 05:15 PM
The LB ranking is total crap. We should be at least #20. We are better than Buff, Ari, Clev, and Cincy, just to name a few.

JWarren14
07-16-2008, 05:08 PM
DB today they put us at #31

"The Texans hope to be healthy this year after a multitude of injuries in 2007. The biggest injury occurred when CB Dunta Robinson, their best overall defensive back, tore his ACL and hamstring. If they can get Robinson back he will give the entire group a boost with his playmaking skills and ability to match up with the opponent's best receivers. The addition of Jacque Reeves in free agency should solidify the right corner spot as Reeves has good upside with his speed and should only get better with improved technique. Will Demps joined the team last season after being released by the Giants and still ended up starting the final seven games at free safety. Demps and SS C.C. Brown have good instincts but lack ideal top-end speed in deep-zone coverage."

In order: Dal, Oak, Phily, Indy, SD, Sea, balt, Car, Den, GB, Tampa, Wash, Jax, Pitt, Chi, NYG, Minn, Tenn, NE, Det, Ariz, SF, Mia, StL, KC, NYJ, Buff, Cincy, NO, Clev, HOU, Atl

No mention of Fred Bennett or Molden...FAIL

The Pencil Neck
07-16-2008, 07:33 PM
I think our DB's are going to play better this year. Even with Dunta missing at least the first part of the season. So, I think we're going to end up much better than 31st.

But... until we see it on the field, there's really no evidence of that so I'm not going to get really ticked about that rating. I mean, we didn't have a good year last year.

JWarren14
07-17-2008, 04:09 PM
Well wrapping all up on a good note ST and the Texans are #4:

"The Texans have quietly become one of the better special teams units in the league thanks to improving their return units and core special teams players. The return duties are handled by veteran WR Andre Davis and second-year man Jacoby Jones. Davis showed great vision and timing in taking three kickoffs back for touchdowns last season, while Jones busted several long punt returns. Punter Matt Turk is excellent at dropping the ball inside the 20-yard line while also being consistent with his hang time and distance, and veteran kicker Kris Brown hit 86 percent of his attempts and was 5-for-5 from 50 yards and beyond."

Others in order: Chi, Clev, Buff, Hou, SD, NYJ, NE, Sea, Balt, Jax, StL, GB, Minn, Atl, NYG, NO, SF, Mia, Wash, Dal, Pitt, Tenn, TB, KC, Indy, CIncy, Car, Den, Det, Oak, Ari, Philly

Week from tomorrow we can finally get something interesting to read.